| #1,301 - Posted 28 October 2011, 7:07 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, Santiago de los Caballeros Join date: November 2009 Member #: 4018 Posts: 713 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Here's the updated spreadsheet of the admixture results of Dominicans on 23andme. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CL2T54EF&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdHB4a2FZYXRxZnh0UzRfbzlTV2lXSWc&hl=en_US&authkey=CL2T54EF#gid=0 So the average Dominican tested by 23andme is around 63-65% European, 28-30% African , and 7% Native American. Note the vast majority of Dominicans tested so far are of Cibaeno origin. QUE VIVA Ei CIBAO "yo soy primero cibaeño y despues dominicano" Pedro Manuel Hungria |
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| #1,302 - Posted 28 October 2011, 7:14 PM | |
Location: United States, OMNIPRESENT. El Cantinero de Jarabacoa. "Aguilucho desde Chiquitito" Join date: March 2009 Member #: 2380 Posts: 5015 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: deicibao previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: Quote: deicibao previously said: Quote: BernardJeanPierre previously said: Seems to match up with the historical context. Men from Europe (Spain mainly) came to the Island and acquired wives (albeit sometimes forcefully) from the populations of Africans and Indians that were already here when they arrived. Yes, the results do match historical context, which was something I wanted to mentioned. Although, something interesting to note is that most of the Y-DNA's of Dominican tested thus far, are rare in Spain, and more common in France, Britain, and Germany. I don't expect most of you to know this stuff, but the most common Y-DNA in Spain is R1b1b2a1a2, yet there's not a single Dominican ( who has been tested) who has this particular halo-group, yet. An explanation for this might be that most Spanish who arrive to DR, where from northwestern Spain (Galicia etc..). Nonetheless is undeniable that R1b is by far the most common paternal halo-group amongst Dominicans, while L is the most common maternal Halo-group. Most of the Spanish who arrived in the DR were from the Canary Islands. I'm not sure if most were from the canary island, that's the case in Puerto rico, and Cuba, but our case is a little different, I think we received Spaniards from all over Spain, and is hard to tell which group was the biggest. Just like many other Cibaenos, Most of my family arrive from the Canary islands in the late 1600's, but you also have to remember that the Canary islands were colonize by Spain, and Spaniards from all over Spain settled there, many of them also mixed with the native Guaches, that's why Dominicans with Canary ancestry usually score high Middle eastern/North African in genetic tests. Anyways, all I'm saying is that is interesting, and at the same time puzzling that most of the paternal lines of Dominicans aren't common in Spain. A great example is Manhattanite's paternal line is actually more common in France than in Spain. Most of the Spaniard decended Carribeans happen to be from the Canary Islands and the Andalusian region of Spain. Our Spanish closely resembles the Spanish from those areas in the area of pronunciation more than actual accent. Lets face it we have our own exclusive unique accent. Edited on 10/28/2011 7:14 PM by mirabal4ever. Conocer al cojo sentao! Las Aguilas son Las Aguilas!!!!!!!! |
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| #1,303 - Posted 28 October 2011, 7:42 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic Join date: September 2008 Member #: 1388 Posts: 74 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: deicibao previously said: Here's the updated spreadsheet of the admixture results of Dominicans on 23andme. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CL2T54EF&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdHB4a2FZYXRxZnh0UzRfbzlTV2lXSWc&hl=en_US&authkey=CL2T54EF#gid=0 So the average Dominican tested by 23andme is around 63-65% European, 28-30% African , and 7% Native American. Note the vast majority of Dominicans tested so far are of Cibaeno origin. Keep in mind for the readers in the forum, that 23andme under-estimates African ancestry anywhere from 2 - 7%, on average like 4-5%. Because it is only using Yoruba's as sa Sample, also the Native ancestry is marked as Asia because they are note using native americans to test against. When the data is comapred aagainst more Africans and more Natives the results change a bit, the African always goes up, the European goes down, now the Asia may translate into higher or Lower native. For example... My Grandmother came out 52% Europe, 38% Africa, 10% Asia But when using more reference samples it translated into 45% Europe, 45% Africa, 10% Native, In this case the native stayed the same, but in my case it went down. I came out 56% Europe, 34% Africa, 10% Asia But when adding more Africans and real natives i came out 51% Europe, 41% Africa, 8% Native, so 2% of my asia was over-estimated, Also keep in mind that the Europe includes middle eastern and North-African, some Dominicans like me and deicibao have considerable amount of Middle Eastern ancestry that is put into the European In my case out of the 51% Europe, about 10% of it is mideast/north-african/berber. Also as far as Regional breakdown, deicibao alreayd mentioned most of the people on the sheet are Cibaenyo, and the vast Majority from Santiago. 34% Of all the samples are from Santiago, while 16% are from San Francisco de Macoris. Only 9% of the Samples are non-cibaenyo. Which means 91% of the samples are Cibaenyo to be exact. Edited on 10/28/2011 7:45 PM by Lemba. |
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| #1,304 - Posted 28 October 2011, 9:33 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2011 Member #: 6646 Posts: 1028 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Interesting, it will be great to see the results as more and more people contribute making it possible to get a bigger picture with time. |
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| #1,305 - Posted 22 March 2012, 6:02 PM | |
Location: United States, In your mind Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1042 Posts: 775 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Encuentran en Rio San Juan Importantes Piezas Taínas Fundación Proyecto Turístico Playa Grande financia excavación arqueológica en Rio San Juan RIO SAN JUAN.- El Proyecto Turístico Playa Grande en Rio San Juan financia un proyecto de excavación arqueológica donde se han encontrado gran cantidad de piezas tainas de más de 1.000 años de antigüedad, en colaboración con el Museo del Hombre Dominicano, y el Instituto de Investigaciones Antropológicas de la Universidad Autónoma de Santo Domingo. Las piezas obtenidas en el proceso de excavación arqueológica, han sido entregadas al Museo del Hombre Dominicano. “Estamos ante una colaboración muy novedosa, entre instituciones privadas del turismo, trabajando de la mano de instituciones de cultura de República Dominicana”, expresó el arqueólogo Director de la excavación, Adolfo López. El Proyecto Turístico Playa Grande ha decidido financiar el proyecto de excavación arqueológica con el objetivo de obtener información histórica que enriquezca la cultura dominicana. Igualmente pretende crear un museo local con las piezas tainas procedentes de la excavación, que sirva como fuente como atractivo turístico de la zona. Según Adolfo López, el descubrimiento más importante hasta el momento, es un campo de montones agrícolas tainas que se ha conservado intacto después de mil años, exactamente en las mismas condiciones, que puede ser fechado a partir del año 750 y 800 después de Cristo y haber sido utilizado tal vez hasta el año1550 después de Cristo. Los montones agrícolas tenían de 3 a 4 metros de ancho y más o menos unos 50 cm. ó 70 cm. de alto. “Sabíamos que existían porque Bartolomé de las Casas nos decía que alrededor de los poblados ellos tenían muchos montones plantados con maíz, yuca y otros vegetales, y se habría encontrado alguno que otro; también Marcio Veloz y José Guerrero encontraron algunos montones, pero nunca se había localizado en el Caribe un campo intacto”, expresó López. Se han encontrado además, los 3 principales grupos culturales tainos que habitaban la isla viviendo juntos y se ha podido identificar como se han ido mezclando hasta llegar al taino que encuentra el europeo cuando llega. También se ha encontrado entre los restos del poblado taino un raro ejemplar de la primera moneda fabricada expresamente para América, una pieza de cobre de dos maravedíes del año 1505 acuñada en Sevilla. Igualmente se han localizado restos humanos que han sido estudiados por Abelardo Jiménez Lambertus, subdirector del Museo del Hombre. Se han hallado hermosas potizas tainas (un cacharrito que se utilizaba para el agua). Las cerámicas están siendo estudiadas por el arqueólogo del Museo del Hombre Jorge Ulloa. Hachas, martillos, guayos, caracoles que eran restos de lo que comían, algunos trozos de cerámica española, una cuenta de vidrio español y también algunas piezas de bronce, y de hierro. Estos últimos artefactos demuestran que el poblado tuvo contacto con los españoles y que el establecimiento taino se mantuvo hasta más allá del siglo XVI. López agrega, que se han encontrado indígenas que fundamentalmente se alimentaban de tortugas, pescados y hutías y que realizaban grandes cultivos alrededor de sus casas. Los estudios de la fauna los ha realizado el biólogo Renato Rímoli. Además de los arqueólogos dominicanos que dirigen los trabajos, las excavaciones han contado también con la colaboración de arqueólogos españoles especializados de la universidad de Madrid, Sara Gálvez y Cristóbal Burkhalter, quienes apoyaron el entrenamiento del personal que trabaja como ayudante de arqueología. También colaboran en el proyecto dos arqueólogos venezolanos, Alejandro Selmi y Alicia Galarraga. El Proyecto Turístico Playa Grande tiene el compromiso de promover el desarrollo social, y la protección ambiental en las comunidades cercanas al proyecto y de la región. Actualmente apadrina un pre-escolar en la escuela pública del pueblo de Abreu, que ofrece una educación Montessori a más de 30 niños, desarrolla actividades deportivas, y desde hace 7 años patrocina el carnaval de Rio San Juan, la fiesta cultural más importante de la zona. http://www.almomento.net/news/132/ARTICLE/108596/2012-03-21.html "Those who do not hate their own selfishness and regard themselves as more important than the rest of the world are blind because the truth lies elsewhere" - Blaise Pascal |
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| #1,306 - Posted 22 March 2012, 9:33 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: March 2008 Member #: 522 Posts: 5804 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Great article on this most recent Taino arquelogical discovery. Thanks JEM- I wonder and It would certainly be interesting but most fascinating to learn exactly how were they able to stumble upon this historical treasure. Edited on 3/22/2012 9:36 PM by guillermone. |
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| #1,307 - Posted 23 March 2012, 11:45 AM | |
Location: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨ Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 3390 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Thank you for the awesome post Jem. The findings are fascinating. I am truly amazed that "conucos" have stayed intact after a thousand years, at exactly the same conditions, which can be dated from 750 AD to 800 AD. |
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| #1,308 - Posted 25 March 2012, 8:53 PM | |
Location: Australia Join date: October 2010 Member #: 6074 Posts: 6208 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: anthonyC previously said: Quote: yumnuk3 previously said: When Columbus arrived the Arawak's rushed to the shore to greet them with arms full of riches to share with their new visitors. Columbus wrote back to the Queen and told of these peaceful people that can easily be used for slavery and riches. On subsequent visits back to the Arawak's it was Columbus' policy that if they didn't have arms full of riches, to chop their hands off. It is such an absurdity that we celebrate this butcher with a holiday. Different time. Different era. You cannot use moral equivalancy with something over 500 years ago. Was Columbus worse than the Aztecs who practiced ritual Human Sacrifice? Worse than the Caribe Indians who practiced Canibalism? The Incas who's whole economy was based on Slave Labor? Muslims who beheaded Adulterers?....Oh wait. That is going on today. Columbus a great man. A flawed man but who here isn't? Columbus was a brutal monster, even for those times, and he spent time in jail in Spain for it. He is credited with discovering America, however the Vikings even established a settlement in what is now Newfoundland Canada, 500 years earlier. He is also credited with "discovering" that the world is round, although geographers, astronomers, and almost anyone not indoctrinated by the Catholic church knew it was spherical. As for the behavior of the Aztecs, Caribs and Incas, part of the justification of the Conquistadors robbing, subduing and killing them was their assumed moral superiority. Yet at the core of Columbus' Catholicism is the worship of human sacrifice, the Crucifixion. The atrocities committed by Muslims in no way justifies Columbus' atrocities, however I agree, Muslim atrocities in this day an age are far worse than anything Columbus did. "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics... Even if you win, you're still retarded." |
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| #1,309 - Posted 25 March 2012, 9:47 PM | |
Location: United States, Quisqueya Join date: August 2008 Member #: 1291 Posts: 9157 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Columbus was the harbinger of genocide. He was a self anointed messiah, slave trader, schemer, megalomaniac, plunderer, and had problems with his perception of reality, being delusional at times. The adoration of his image, is strictly founded on factoids, not on facts. Edited on 3/25/2012 9:47 PM by generoso. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity lasts forever. |
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| #1,310 - Posted 30 March 2012, 2:41 PM | |
Location: United States Join date: January 2012 Member #: 10052 Posts: 2 | RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans Quote: generoso previously said: Columbus was the harbinger of genocide. He was a self anointed messiah, slave trader, schemer, megalomaniac, plunderer, and had problems with his perception of reality, being delusional at times. The adoration of his image, is strictly founded on factoids, not on facts. The psychology of 15th century Spaniard was very linear, lets face it their perception of other people was very backwards. The logical thing to do is learn from the past and be above the oppressor. |
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