Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
#231 - Posted 4 March 2009, 10:26 AM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Does anyone over here knows about some good (online) sources about Taino mythology and folklore?
"A man who strives after goodness in all his acts is sure to come to ruin, since there are so many men who are not good."

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#232 - Posted 4 March 2009, 3:37 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Lautaro previously said:

Does anyone over here knows about some good (online) sources about Taino mythology and folklore?


A selection of Taino and Arawak myths
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/Taino/docs/myths.html

Baracutei, may be able to help.
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#233 - Posted 4 March 2009, 7:14 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

Quote:
poponlaburra previously said:

Baracutei,
They also used to tell us that the English pirates were the ones killing the Indians since the Spaniards married Tainos women.
I never believed that all Tainos were killed. I always thought that was impossible.
Fist of all, the Spanish did not know to the landmarks of the virgin jungles as the native did.
I always wonder if the Ciguapas were actually Tainos Indian woman with club feet or some type of genetic body malformation or mental retardation that scared the people away.
Baracutei, are you planning investigate further like interviewing the old ones in the places you researched?



Hello Poponlaburra,
I have done extensive study of the ciguapas and in my opinion it is one of the most enduring folk tales that our ancestors have left us. although the Spanish chronicles do not mention the ciguapa nor are they in depicted in the petroglyphs found throught Kiskeya I am convinced that this is a direct story pased down to modern times. Here are my reasons:

(1) the ciguapa is not unique to us in Kiskeya. In fact most of the Indians of the circum -Caribbean, especially those of Arawakan lineage (as were are ancestors) have this same creature in their folklore. In Brazil she is known as Curupia. In Venezuela she is known as Caipora, the Caribs of trinidad call her duen and in El Salvador she is called Ciguanama.

(2) Ciguapa and ciguayo have obvious linguistic connections. Our ancestors called the the people of Samana (whom spoke a different Language) Ciguayo because of their long hair (the Taino men wore their hair short. as you know the Ciguapa have long hair down to their ankles.

(3) None of the Indians who have this similar story depict the ciguapa in paintings either. It appears that it is a household legend used perhaps to scare children so they will not wander off at night. sort of like the Cuco.

The fact that this story has survied in our campos shoes a deep connection to our ancestral past. when one adds these folkloric connections, linguistic influences and the incredilbe amount of material culture to the current genetic analysis it becomes clear that our ancestors not only survived, but influenced the entire island of kiskeya.
All the best
baracutei

Of course the Taino extinction myth is just that, a myth. It is been promoted as such to
deny people their ancestral heritage and legacy. And this is coming from
some one who many would call an Afrocentrics, and I proudly carry that title
because I know the true meaning of what it denote.Among other thing
it got nothing to do with one-drop-rule, it wasn't us who created that
Personally I am not an an advocate of such. I accept people because they are
people, and not for what they are mix with

I am Black dark skin and proud

With than said, if I should found out that I got even one drop of blood of any of the people whom
were called "Indians" of the western hemisphere, some of whom were
Black themselves, I would embraced it with the same passions
that I embraced my present identity(which I would never let go of).If for no other reason then
to show solidarity to a note worthy people who was the recipient of such
barbaric brutality and still survived
Edited on 3/4/2009 8:24 PM by taky1.
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#234 - Posted 5 March 2009, 8:42 AM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
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#235 - Posted 5 March 2009, 9:25 AM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
taky1 previously said:

Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

Quote:
poponlaburra previously said:

Baracutei,
They also used to tell us that the English pirates were the ones killing the Indians since the Spaniards married Tainos women.
I never believed that all Tainos were killed. I always thought that was impossible.
Fist of all, the Spanish did not know to the landmarks of the virgin jungles as the native did.
I always wonder if the Ciguapas were actually Tainos Indian woman with club feet or some type of genetic body malformation or mental retardation that scared the people away.
Baracutei, are you planning investigate further like interviewing the old ones in the places you researched?



Hello Poponlaburra,
I have done extensive study of the ciguapas and in my opinion it is one of the most enduring folk tales that our ancestors have left us. although the Spanish chronicles do not mention the ciguapa nor are they in depicted in the petroglyphs found throught Kiskeya I am convinced that this is a direct story pased down to modern times. Here are my reasons:

(1) the ciguapa is not unique to us in Kiskeya. In fact most of the Indians of the circum -Caribbean, especially those of Arawakan lineage (as were are ancestors) have this same creature in their folklore. In Brazil she is known as Curupia. In Venezuela she is known as Caipora, the Caribs of trinidad call her duen and in El Salvador she is called Ciguanama.

(2) Ciguapa and ciguayo have obvious linguistic connections. Our ancestors called the the people of Samana (whom spoke a different Language) Ciguayo because of their long hair (the Taino men wore their hair short. as you know the Ciguapa have long hair down to their ankles.

(3) None of the Indians who have this similar story depict the ciguapa in paintings either. It appears that it is a household legend used perhaps to scare children so they will not wander off at night. sort of like the Cuco.

The fact that this story has survied in our campos shoes a deep connection to our ancestral past. when one adds these folkloric connections, linguistic influences and the incredilbe amount of material culture to the current genetic analysis it becomes clear that our ancestors not only survived, but influenced the entire island of kiskeya.
All the best
baracutei

Of course the Taino extinction myth is just that, a myth. It is been promoted as such to
deny people their ancestral heritage and legacy. And this is coming from
some one who many would call an Afrocentrics, and I proudly carry that title
because I know the true meaning of what it denote.Among other thing
it got nothing to do with one-drop-rule, it wasn't us who created that
Personally I am not an an advocate of such. I accept people because they are
people, and not for what they are mix with

I am Black dark skin and proud

With than said, if I should found out that I got even one drop of blood of any of the people whom
were called "Indians" of the western hemisphere, some of whom were
Black themselves, I would embraced it with the same passions
that I embraced my present identity(which I would never let go of).If for no other reason then
to show solidarity to a note worthy people who was the recipient of such
barbaric brutality and still survived


I personally do not have anything against (mostly because of the absurdity of negating obviuos African influence) Afro-centrics or any other of racial catergories that make us a unique Dominican people. I do have a problem with "Ultra-AfroCentrics", many of whom claim that even the meso-American cultures were the result of African presence in the Americas before 1492.
The one drop rule in the DR does exist, but it, in my opinion runs in reverse, if one has one drop of white blood then when is considered blanco.
As for Afro-Dominicans or other peoples of the African diaspora not being the ones who created the one drop rule, you are right it was created by European Americans during slavery. But you must admit that many Afro-centrics hold on to this absurd notion. For example I met an individual once that had very kinky hair, but his skin was very white and his eyes were blue. He saw himself as a white man, and he was, but a friend of mine who is afro-centric after meeting this same individual said to me "he is denying his negritude because his hair form is obviously African"!
I personally do not see how hair form denotes culture, language etc. It could very well be that this individual has African ancestry. But he is for the most part white and see himself as white. Therefore I would not question him based on hair form. Its like calling an individual born in Africa of African parents and has straight hair "white".
All identities are created. But some people seem enjoy asigning an identity to a group of peoples based on their own perceptions and beliefs. Hence we have a huge identity crisis in the DR that is further compounded when individuals that are not from the island tells us that we are African, or Indian or white etc etc.
In land of so many mixtures we will always have many identities. I identify with Indian and you with African. Both are points of view are valid and real.
For me Identifying with the Indian comes from my understanding of our campesino material culture. Also from the connection I feel to the island and my allegiance to it. For me my histories did not begin in Spain nor African, they bagan 7,000 years ago in the Americas. If you could take away, as if by magic, everything that is Taino from the island would we still be the same unique Dominicans that we are today? Of course not. Then again if we took all that is African and Spanish we would not be the same Dominicans either. But we would still be Indigenous! Identifying with taino plain and simple is that we are indigenous to our island. This feeling is not unique to us. When the Haitians
overthough the French ( announced by the sound of a Guamo (Shell) very taino) They had every ample oportunity to rename the island from St. Domingue to a plethora of African names. But they didnt. They chose Haiti because as African as they were, they already felt that Haiti was there homeland and had an indigenous connection to it.
Sorry ladies and gentleman, but it is early and I have rambled way too much!
All the best
Baracutei
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#236 - Posted 5 March 2009, 10:12 AM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

But some people seem enjoy asigning an identity to a group of peoples based on their own perceptions and beliefs. Hence we have a huge identity crisis in the DR that is further compounded when individuals that are not from the island tells us that we are African, or Indian or white etc etc.


Thank you for pointing this out, Baracutei. That right there is what several intelligent individuals on here (i.e. Lautaro, USADR, etc.) have been trying to convince those foreigners that accuse Dominicans of being racist and that we are 'denying our negritude' and so forth. I don't understand why it is so hard for many non-Dominicans that accuse us of this attitude to understand that even if our appearance makes us look like we are more of a certain group (African, Taino, or European) feeling identified or claiming all three identities does not make you a racist or in denial of your other races.
Edited on 3/5/2009 11:13 AM by JEM237.
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#237 - Posted 5 March 2009, 3:31 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Baracutei,
I recall the results of a recent genetic test done in DR where they found a high percentage of Eurasian DNA. Can you expand on that? Can it mean (and I'm purely speculating) that the women the Spanish bought over may have been Guanche/Berber/Moor/Sephardic? Since we have alot of Canarian influence Canairans themselves have significant Guanche dna.
And also the African dna was supposedly from one region.
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#238 - Posted 5 March 2009, 5:07 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
USADR previously said:

Baracutei,
I recall the results of a recent genetic test done in DR where they found a high percentage of Eurasian DNA. Can you expand on that? Can it mean (and I'm purely speculating) that the women the Spanish bought over may have been Guanche/Berber/Moor/Sephardic? Since we have alot of Canarian influence Canairans themselves have significant Guanche dna.
And also the African dna was supposedly from one region.


You are correct USADR. Most of the MtDNA that was not African or Taino was indeed of Middle Eastern extraction. Guanche/Berber/Jewish etc.
The African mtDNA was sub-saharan. What is really exciting about the African component is that some sequences found in the DR are not found anywhere in the world except for very remote African villages! So you can imagine the trek these genes had from Africa to the DR and they are found nowhere else on Earth.
All the best
baracutei
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#239 - Posted 5 March 2009, 5:19 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

Quote:
USADR previously said:

Baracutei,
I recall the results of a recent genetic test done in DR where they found a high percentage of Eurasian DNA. Can you expand on that? Can it mean (and I'm purely speculating) that the women the Spanish bought over may have been Guanche/Berber/Moor/Sephardic? Since we have alot of Canarian influence Canairans themselves have significant Guanche dna.
And also the African dna was supposedly from one region.


You are correct USADR. Most of the MtDNA that was not African or Taino was indeed of Middle Eastern extraction. Guanche/Berber/Jewish etc.
The African mtDNA was sub-saharan. What is really exciting about the African component is that some sequences found in the DR are not found anywhere in the world except for very remote African villages! So you can imagine the trek these genes had from Africa to the DR and they are found nowhere else on Earth.
All the best
baracutei


Thank you, I eagerly await any other further findings.
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#240 - Posted 5 March 2009, 6:55 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Fidel Castro Comes Out of the Closet

Taínos: Past & Present

Fidel Castro Ruz
President of Cuba was born into a large, prosperous Cuban farming family in
Mayari, near Brian, Cuba, on August 13, 1926 or 1927. He overthrew military
leader and dictator General Fulgencio Batista and on January 1, 1959, he took
power of the largest island in the Caribbean. This controversial leader recently
admitted Taíno ancestry and is the second Caribbean head of state after
Jamaica's Alexander Bustamante to connect himself to the region's indigenous
people.



http://www.powhatanmuseum.com/Tainos_Past_Present.html
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