Dominican Today Forum » Living in the DR » General Info » Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
#771 - Posted 1 March 2010, 7:06 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Bonaoense previously said:

Quote:
ElTorodeiCibao previously said:

Quote:
Bonaoense previously said:

Quote:
yumnuk3 previously said:

Take this nonsense somewhere else.


Tell Guillermone to get himself to Stormfront. The sad thing is, I bet that guy looks like this


I mean, the guy thinks Fefita la Grande is White

And you made a African heritage thread but YOU decided to delete it for some reason. Apparently, Jewish ancestry (300 people out of 10 million) is much more important.


Are you only counting the recent Ashkenazim arrival, because a lot of the Jewish heritage whether crypto or not predates that.


Dominicans are NOT Jews. Even if Columbus and crew were Jewish, what about the many other Spaniards who came afterwards? They definitely would outnumber Columbus' supposed Jewish crew.

And it's not like the Spaniards just went to Hispaniola and started raping everything in their path, because:

-People usually need to rest for a while before having sex AGAIN
-They had to bring their wives eventually




No, it was not just his crew. A lot of Crypto-Jews/Muslims fled to the new world. Also we received Sephardim from other countries after the settlement. Also:

"In the 19th century Jews from Curacao settled in Hispaniola, but did not form a strong community. Most of them hid their Jewish identities or were unaffiliated with Jewish tradition by that time. Among their descendants were Dominican President Francisco Henriquez y Carvajal[1] and his son Pedro Henriques Ureña."

This means they mixed in.
Edited on 3/1/2010 7:09 PM by ElTorodeiCibao.
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#772 - Posted 1 March 2010, 11:46 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Bonaoense previously said:

And Guillermone started this. He supports people being ashamed of their African ancestry because they haven't "contributed" anything to the world (as in mass raping, slavery and genocide), but by his logic, Tainos haven't "contributed" anything either.


No I did not say that. You always and consistently use my and other's comments, twist them around and take it out of context just so you can use it to support your distorted "thesis."
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#773 - Posted 1 March 2010, 11:54 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

The word in Taino for feces is SICA or ISICA. In the Lokono Language which is a Maipuran Arawakan language and the closet related to Taino the word Tica or ITICA means feces.
I remember when I was young my mother would tell me that "si te pica una cacata aye que untaise la sica (mierda) pero si te pican dos aye que comiesala pa sanaite!
This rather disgusting home remedy for a tarantula bite is interesting because it shows that not only the word survived, but its medicinal use as well.

This is just a small example of the plethora of knowledge that our taino ancestors passed on to us. Withn the next generation and certainly the next two, if we do not preserve this knowledge from the heart of our country, it will all truly be lost.

I have lived a long time thus far and have lost many relatives and friends, its all sad and hurts constantly, but nothing scares me more than for us to lose the esscence and roots of who we are.
If we could extract as if by magic all things Taino, place names, foods, expressions, etc, would we be the same Dominicans that we are today? the Answer is no. But by this reasonining if we extracted all things Spanish and African, we would not be the same people either. Taino affords us to at least have a sense of Indigenousness (?) to our island, our homeland. As I have stated before identity is a tricky situation, and multi-faceted at that. Sometimes even in a single family we can have mutli ethincities, and that is a fact.

More words??


Ausome !!!! Enjoyed it very much, THANKS !!! I agree that we should preserve our Taino identity. The African part has not disappeared, it is still alive and very much a part of every day life, plus we have a constant flow of African gene pool coming in from our neighbors and other nearby caribbean islands. The African identity is the least of our worries. However, the Taino culture, though we still carry some remnants, it has pretty much phased out. But we all must do our part to preserve what little we have left.
Edited on 3/1/2010 11:55 PM by guillermone.
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#774 - Posted 24 March 2010, 12:56 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Look into Art and Mythology of the Taino indians of the Greater West indies by Eugenio Fernandez Mendez who goes into detail; with possible relationships between the Greater Antilles and Mesoamerica. The book is available in spanish and english at Amazon.com
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#775 - Posted 24 March 2010, 1:19 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
[These are some notes that I took on the Taino myths from an ONLINE ARTICLE TITLED:

The Bat and the Guava:
Life and Death in the Taino Worldview

By Maria Poviones-Bishop
Please let me know what you think...]

"If the op’a or spirits of the dead were believed to take the form of cave-dwelling mammals (bats), perhaps this was the Taino way of expressing that these spirits were gestating in nature's womb until it was time for them to be born again and re-gain their navels."

"When one considers that newborn children come out of their mother's womb and belly covered in the darkest of blood, the image of the Taino people covered in jagua emerging from a cave located within a mountain may be viewed as a Taino expression of origin based on the language of birth from a woman's womb."

"These special processes of creation bear close resemblance to human childbirth upon closer inspection. For example, the Cave of the Jagua as a representation of the collective womb is supported by the reference to the jagua, a fruit that produces black dye used by the Taino people to color their bodies.(97) The cave or cavity is in a mountain, which is not unlike the shape of a pregnant woman's belly."

"Rather, the Taino may have been suggesting that it was possible for a large group of op’a to bring forth a new generation of people, plants, and animals through special processes of creation."

"A belief in re-incarnation would be consistent with Taino ideas that the living people were the ones with navels (i.e. signs of concrete human birth) and faces (i.e. definite form and identity) while the op’a were those without faces or navels, or possibly those that had not been re-born yet."

"For example, this association takes the hypothesis of the dependency of life on death a step further by allowing for the possibility that the Taino may have believed in some form of re-incarnation..."

"According to Pané's narrative, in the beginning all of the people were inside the dark cave."

"With the introduction of Itiba and her four sons, the myth now appears to utilize a combination of metaphors for expressing processes of creation: the birth of new life as childbirth (in the emptying of the gourd and in Itiba's labor yielding four sons) and new life arising from death (fish created from the bones of the dead Yayael and live children born from the dead Itiba Cahubaba). The complex inter-play of these two ideas supports the hypothesis that the Taino saw death as a pre-cursor to birth, fertility and the re-creation of life already discussed in the section on Atabey's zemies..."

"the emptying of the gourd/uterus by the unnamed woman is a metaphor for birthing."

"For the Taino, from what we have seen, death was not extinction, punishment or reward. It was an episode in the transition from one existence to the other, an event expected and anticipated in the natural cosmic order ... The dead were not in heaven or hell, or with the creator. They were on one side of the island, waiting for the sun to go down to come out and eat guayaba, have sex, celebrate and dance."

"Taino myths in general, and etiological myths in particular, are full of references to the important roles played by death and decay in the processes of creation at the cosmic and personal level."

"As discussed in the section above entitled The Origin of the Taino People of Hispaniola, the Taino myth about the origin of the people of Hispaniola has led scholars to hypothesize that the Taino associated the mythic ancestors that eventually emerged from the Cave of the Jagua with the spirits of the dead or the op’a. It is possible that this represents Taino ideas about the re-generation of life."

"At the very least, it may be said that the Taino connected death with re-birth so that the life and death aspects of their worldview were always connected in loops."

"The Taino had not developed geometry as we know it, but they seem to have expressed something of a cosmic geometry in their concepts of life and death. Having no mathematical language with which to express cycles in time and recursive interactions between multi-dimensional forces, the Taino described their "road of life"(109) using Tropical fauna and flora. Thus the bat ate the guava fruit and then turned into a fruit."

Most definitely; I believe that a through study in their myths will unlock many mysteries left behind by our ancerstors. Especially dealing with esoteric symbolism, a good book on their mythology one by Arrom Jose is An account of the antiquities of the indians, although fragmented but good...
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#776 - Posted 24 March 2010, 2:59 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
guillermone previously said:

Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

The word in Taino for feces is SICA or ISICA. In the Lokono Language which is a Maipuran Arawakan language and the closet related to Taino the word Tica or ITICA means feces.
I remember when I was young my mother would tell me that "si te pica una cacata aye que untaise la sica (mierda) pero si te pican dos aye que comiesala pa sanaite!
This rather disgusting home remedy for a tarantula bite is interesting because it shows that not only the word survived, but its medicinal use as well.

This is just a small example of the plethora of knowledge that our taino ancestors passed on to us. Withn the next generation and certainly the next two, if we do not preserve this knowledge from the heart of our country, it will all truly be lost.

I have lived a long time thus far and have lost many relatives and friends, its all sad and hurts constantly, but nothing scares me more than for us to lose the esscence and roots of who we are.
If we could extract as if by magic all things Taino, place names, foods, expressions, etc, would we be the same Dominicans that we are today? the Answer is no. But by this reasonining if we extracted all things Spanish and African, we would not be the same people either. Taino affords us to at least have a sense of Indigenousness (?) to our island, our homeland. As I have stated before identity is a tricky situation, and multi-faceted at that. Sometimes even in a single family we can have mutli ethincities, and that is a fact.

More words??


Ausome !!!! Enjoyed it very much, THANKS !!! I agree that we should preserve our Taino identity. The African part has not disappeared, it is still alive and very much a part of every day life, plus we have a constant flow of African gene pool coming in from our neighbors and other nearby caribbean islands. The African identity is the least of our worries. However, the Taino culture, though we still carry some remnants, it has pretty much phased out. But we all must do our part to preserve what little we have left.

Guille if you go into the Sierra you can find a lot of Taino cultural aspects. A lot of the words we use are taino, a lot of the building techniques and materials too. I can still remember a lot of the myths my grandmother taught me as a child that come directly from Taino roots. Many of the medicinal cures, tincture, brews, salves and "botellas" still in use today are all Taino. As far as the foods go, its even a larger use of all things Taino, from using Tinajas, Higueros and palm wood utensils, to traditional dishes such as casabe, panecicos and suruyos.
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#777 - Posted 24 March 2010, 3:58 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Civil Rights and Peace Activist for Our Dominican People
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
guillermone previously said:

Quote:
Baracutei previously said:

The word in Taino for feces is SICA or ISICA. In the Lokono Language which is a Maipuran Arawakan language and the closet related to Taino the word Tica or ITICA means feces.
I remember when I was young my mother would tell me that "si te pica una cacata aye que untaise la sica (mierda) pero si te pican dos aye que comiesala pa sanaite!
This rather disgusting home remedy for a tarantula bite is interesting because it shows that not only the word survived, but its medicinal use as well.

This is just a small example of the plethora of knowledge that our taino ancestors passed on to us. Withn the next generation and certainly the next two, if we do not preserve this knowledge from the heart of our country, it will all truly be lost.

I have lived a long time thus far and have lost many relatives and friends, its all sad and hurts constantly, but nothing scares me more than for us to lose the esscence and roots of who we are.
If we could extract as if by magic all things Taino, place names, foods, expressions, etc, would we be the same Dominicans that we are today? the Answer is no. But by this reasonining if we extracted all things Spanish and African, we would not be the same people either. Taino affords us to at least have a sense of Indigenousness (?) to our island, our homeland. As I have stated before identity is a tricky situation, and multi-faceted at that. Sometimes even in a single family we can have mutli ethincities, and that is a fact.

More words??


Ausome !!!! Enjoyed it very much, THANKS !!! I agree that we should preserve our Taino identity. The African part has not disappeared, it is still alive and very much a part of every day life, plus we have a constant flow of African gene pool coming in from our neighbors and other nearby caribbean islands. The African identity is the least of our worries. However, the Taino culture, though we still carry some remnants, it has pretty much phased out. But we all must do our part to preserve what little we have left.


Aren't we blessed that that yumnuk found and brought Baracutei to our lives!? Thank Baracutei and yumnuk!

I think we and the government has to do a bit more to enhance and preserve our Taino culture, like what is being done in USA for the Native Americans.
And Gillemone you are correct, the African part of us has not disappeared all the contrary, with the large influx of Haitians specially after the earthquake the Taino blood will disappear in a decade of two my opinion, if you look at other cities outside El Cibao, Tainos descendants are a minute minority that thru the years will disappear.
"PROUD & Glad to have a Spanish last name and ancestry"

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#778 - Posted 24 March 2010, 5:25 PM
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#779 - Posted 24 March 2010, 5:26 PM
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#780 - Posted 24 March 2010, 10:25 PM
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RE: Taino Ancestry Among Dominicans
Quote:
Bonaoense previously said:

And sorry, I've seen your picture and you don't look Indigenous, you just look like a typical Jabao


Have you seen a photograph or a picture of a Taino or someone of Taino descent to know whether or not someone in DR looks Indigenous? I know I haven't but I reckon that many people in my family must have Taino ancestry for they do not look like typical mulattoes. The straight dark hair and copper skin isn't a result of European and African contact in my opinion. Baracutei will keep us informed. We shall see.
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