This is a real letter? When can I find this info and more like it?

Arkatype what can you about it? We Haitians are taking over everything these days. This is a non-lethal invasion from our part get use to it suckerrrrr!!!!!

THE HAITIAN EMPIRE SHALL RISE ONCE MORE. and I'm very afraid that there is nothing you can do about it. It's our destiny.

kmnupe previously said:

This is a real letter? When can I find this info and more like it?

Oh yes it's true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7deJXU4ZRG0




Taino Dancers

Here are Jorge Estevez' views about the issue:


There have been two, although very limited, DNA studies done in the Dominican Republic.
The first were conducted by an Italian company along with the Late Dr. Luna Calderon. These studies were focused in the Barahona region. Of the 29 samples taken (all from people displaying mostly African heritage) 10 had Native American Mitochondrial DNA.

In the second, Professor Juan Martinez Cruzado of Puerto Rico took 196 samples and of these 33 percent had Native American MTDNA. What should be noted is that in previous studies in Puerto Rico where the population is 4 million people, 800 samples were taken and 61 percent of these were Indian. The DR has over 9 million people so a much higher representative number of samples must be obtained before any conclusion can be made.

That said there are a few things that are clear though:

(1) the question as to whether or not there is Native descent in the DR has been answered and the answer is yes.

(2) The samples in the DR are Haplo groups A and C. The C haplo groups and types match the Puerto Rican C group. But the Haplo group A does not match the Puerto Rican A. This implies that the Haplo group A in the DR is from an older population that mixed with the arawakan speaking peoples that entered the region some 3 thousand years ago.

I took a Bio-geographical DNA test, one that gives percentages of mixture. I tested positive for all three, except that my Native American Markers were so high that it implied that my ancestors were "pure" up to 5 generations ago. Not bad for a supposedly extinct people!

I actually took the test three times because at first I was not at all convinced that such a thing was possible.

On my first test which was called the 2.0 DNA print test My percentages were 29% Native American, 39% African and 32% Caucasian. It was this first test that confirmed for me what my grandmother always said about our families’ descent. She claimed that her grandmother and all the people of the place I come from in the DR were pure Indians. So since I had 29% Indian that means my mother would have perhaps twice as much and so on.

Then I took an updated version of the test, 2.5 , which goes deeper into the genome and this one revealed that I was 42 percent Indian.

One thing though. I think that as important as the tests are, they are also a bit misleading. I think that Identity is more about culture than genes. The reason why I have always identified with Native is because of the campesino culture that is very Native in the DR.

At the end of these test I am still as Indian as I was at birth. The thing is does confirm however is that our history in the Caribbean must be re-written. That the Taino became extinct 30 years after contact with the Spanish is just about the biggest myth ever created and we in the Caribbean bought that side of the story, hook line and sinker!

Two of the biggest if not the biggest opponents of Taino survival are Anthony Stevens Arroyo who wrote "Cave of the Jaguar" and Lic Carlos Andujar ex president of The Museo del hombre Dominicano have in the last two weeks made very supportive statements (actually changed their tunes) regarding Taino survival.

In most of the chat rooms where there are these "incredulous" as you say people, most of them are either not informed, non-academic. I do think that they have the right to voice out their Afro-centric sentiments after all that is also a reality in the DR and the Caribbean. They only fail when they become ultra afro-centric and then want everyone else to see what they believe. The fact is that there are three heritages in the DR and because of this we will always have four identities:

(1) there will always be people who identify with the Spanish

(2) there will always be people who identify with the African

(3) there will always be people who identify with the Indian

(4) and last but not least, there will always be people that identify with all three.

My point is that they are all equally valid. No one has the right to tell anyone how to identify.

(Continued)

(Cont...)

We should instill pride in African Heritage as we do with the Indian. One thing, you would never find an indigenista denying African heritage, It just makes no sense.

This thing with "color indio" was actually enforced during Trujillo's time, but as you mention people identified with this way before. In fact in comes from the colonial era. During Trujillo's time there were independent studies done on the ABO blood groups by Jose de Jesus Alvarez. He demonstrated that there is an abundance of type O positive blood in the DR, something like 70 percent. Why is this number important? Because type O positive is found only at around 35 percent in Caucasian populations and 4 percent in African populations. So if you have an equal mix of African and Caucasian Type O positive can never exceed 40 percent. That said, Native Americans, particularly the ones from South America are universally 100 percent Type O Positive. Demonstrating that in the DR there is a substantial other, which of course is Indian.

Many scholars in the past have pointed out this study as being flawed and accused Mr. Alvarez of hidden agendas (Trujillo's?). In fact just a few years ago I was at a conference where one of the speakers accused him of being a racist (this study was done in 1948)! DNA has proven that Mr. Jesus Alvarez was right all along.

I wonder what people will do with this information. Are we a people unable or unwilling to see the truth? Only time will tell. But for those of us who identify our Taino Indian ancestors, these studies only showed that we were right all along. We were not delusional, racist, etc. We were simply stating obvious facts. Like one woman from Cuba said to me once " Yeah they came to our village in Yateras and did all these tests on us, they measured our heads, looked at our teeth and at the end told us what we already knew, that we are Indian".

The wonderful thing about living in this time is that now we can finally test if indeed Dominicans or other Caribbean people have Taino Indian blood. The DNA tests confirm this as did a A-B-O blood group study conducted by J ALvarez in the 50's.

One thing is certain; Dominicans have a tendency to identify with Indian over anything else. I argue that this is due to us having a very real biological, cultural and linguistic connection to our Indigenous ancestors. The terms African, Spanish, Mulatto disconnect us from our homelands, rendering us almost immigrants in our homelands.

It is the Indian that connects us to our lands and we continue to be Indigenous to Kiskeya.

You have to understand that the African and the Spanish are considered the norm. It is the Indian genetic component that is always in question. If you begin to ask a hypothetical question: Are there substantial Native American genes in the DR? The Answer is Yes. To look for Spanish or African is absurd because we ALL know that its there. Do you realize that up to a short time ago many academics erroneously claimed that the reason why some Dominicans looked Indian was because if you mix black and white in time you get something that looks somewhat Indian! This was an actual train of thought among many academics in the Caribbean.

As for the statistics: In the last 30 years there has been a push to Africanize Dominican Identity. So its not suspiring that many more identify with negritude which of course is contrary to the claims that the government has dark agendas in trying to WHITEN the island by switching one dark people for another. Most of those involved in what I call ultra afro-centric ideals that are adamant in making sure that it was African or nothing at all. The indigenistas in our country have never said there were no Africans or African Influence, only that there is Taino as well. The afro centrics take rather unusual stance and claim that if one says INDIAN he is automatically denying Africans. I can’t see the reasoning in this.
I wish we could meet in person. I can show you pictures of DR's that look like they stepped out of the Amazon!

It’s also about culture. When one studies the Classic Taino Material culture of the islands, everything from Hamacas, to Casabe, weaving baskets to slash and burn farming down to how, when and where Native crops are to be planted, bohios, etc and you compare that with the campesino culture of the ciabo for example, its easy to see why Dominicans have strong connection to an Indian past. My problem lies with certain individuals who say the following:

(1) there are no Indian genes only Indian culture left ( and very little of it)

(2) when the genetics proves the above statement to be untrue, then the counter argument is- Yes there are genes but no Indian culture.

As if you can have a strong genetic contribution to population and somehow not pass on ideas, culture, beliefs, etc.
The fact that we have at least 800 Taino words that persist in our Spanish today is remarkable, where else in the history of the world have an "extinct people" influenced a culture as much as the Taino?

I believe that identity is a personal matter and the individual has the right to choose.

Since I was very, very young I have identified with Indian. Somehow for me it boils down to this: If you mixed Africans and Spanish anywhere else in the world and giving rise to mulatto people, would these people be Kiskeyanos and Boricuas or Cubans? Of course not. What makes us a unique people is that we have customs (the above mentioned), beliefs (ciguapas, misterios, opias, etc) linguistic traits that are indigenous only to the Caribbean, rendering us a unique people. If as if by magic we can subtract everything that is Taino from Caribbean culture, would we still be the same Dominicans? One can argue that if you subtract any portion of our multi-ancestries we would not be the same, but one thing is certain, as long as the Taino is there, we will always be indigenous to the Caribbean and not Dominicans by chance.

Hey have you ever been to my page? Please check it out.... http://www.centrelink.org/JorgeEstevez.pdf

Regarding Dominican women straightening their hair to deny their negritude: I found that line of reasoning to be rather laughable.

Hair straightening with chemicals began in the 50's and officially in the 70's by Revlon. Before that hair straightening was done with hot comes, and this began in the late 1880's. Now check out these excerpts:

So much so that the national complexion of skin and general physiognomic traits may well be described as being alight brown, approaching the copper color of the North American aborigines, straight black hair in the case of the females, glossy and in luxurious profusion and a combination of features resulting from about an equal blending of the African, Caucasian and -Indian physiognomies. The very visible traits of the latter would seem to indicate, although we are not aware of the existence of any other evidence of it, that the aboriginal race instead of having been entirely exterminated, had been particularly amalgamated. In “The Dominican Republic in the Island of St. Domigue” by S. A. Kendall, page 243, 1849

The “pure” race wholly died in (Hispaniola) at the latter end of the “last” century; but their characteristic features and luxuriant hair, are still to be traced among their descendants, from intercourse with Europeans, Africans and colored people. These are still called Indios. In Harper's statistical gazetteer of the world / by J. Calvin Smith ; Illustrated by seven maps. Publication date: 1855.Collection: Making of America Books

In other words, many Dominican women were known for their straight hair long before there were any hair straightening techniques. That said, why do so many women in the DR straighten their hair? First off, not ALL DR women do. Some do, some don’t. Second its not about denial of race is about aesthetics. More women straighten their hair in Africa than in the DR, are they too trying to deny being black? Also white women dye their hair blond, and I assure you that more of them are using peroxide to dye their hair than DR women using lye to straighten theirs. So what are these white women denying? NOTHING! It’s all about people trying to look better in their own eyes. When a Japanese man perms his hair curly or makes an dreadlock, he is simply making a fashion statement, not a racial one.

All these articles are an attempt by Ultra-Afro-centric intellectuals to force people into their own points of view.

I would never suggest that all Dominicans with straight hair are Indian. Indian, Black or white are matters of culture. WE as a tripartite people will always either identify with one or all of our heritages.

This argument is weak. If Dominicans don’t identify with their African roots as we should its because we have very few African Icons that survived during slavery. Other than Music and religiosity (two strong vehicles for "escaping" the reality of slavery) there is few material cultural remains to identify with. Once Dominicans can pinpoint where are African descendants came from, perhaps we can then investigate that part of ourselves. To say that Dominican women are denying their negritude because of the hair thing, begs for another question, if the women straighten their hair to deny their negritude, what do the men do? or is it just the women?!

Source: http://www.onedroprule.org/about5072.html

Thanks for the article Lautaro. I've been looking at these DNA tests as I'm curious about my family's own history. Most seem to run from $800-$1500 for the entire range of tests along with documentation and consultation with one of their researchers. Has anyone here been curious enough to try it and was it worth the money?

Although these tests are fairly common on the States, they've been curiously absent over here, or at least I haven't heard about them. I'm fairly curious myself, cuz' my family from my fathers side are campesinos from Valverde, while my mother's is pretty diverse, having spaniard, puertorrican and west indian (specifically Indo-Trinidadian), among the bloodlines on her family tree.

I don't know if they're still doing it but National Geographic was doing DNA testing for the Human Genome Project for cheap compared to the prices you cited. A 100 bucks a peice for maternal and paternal results but you might not get the accuracy Lautaro was alluding to. They'll tell you, though, where your genetic markers originated but won't shed to much light on admixture.

Excellent Thread Hermanos!

For some it seems strange that a DR, can posses Taino heritage; But, still for others it's no surprise all we need do is look at our kinfolks, and ourselves. Not all Quisqueyanos fall into the established categories of Negro or Blanco; Many of "us" are to use a term that Mayor Dinkins of NYC often alluded to, a mosaic . You see not only is "our" native language full of Taino words, but also our tones, our textures are also Taino in origin. Many confuse some of us for Central or South Americans; That's how deep our roots in the aboriginal, ameridian races is. So, keep in mind brothers, that we are many hues, but, fundamentally were sprinkled with the native blood; Some still maintain high percentages of that strain, and others display very little. Yet, all in character posses that freedom, and grace that "our" Cacique predecessors left in our genes.


Viva Quisqueya!

Arsenio.

Amen to that, Arsenio.