patriots vs nationalists - Santo Domingo

RE: patriots vs nationalists

Gentlemen, which way is this going on?
Now a patriot is not a nationalist and a nationalist is not a patriot?
Now is good to be a patriot and is bad (Wow, “Bad”!) to be a nationalist?
Now we do not have good nationalists and bad patriots?
For me these two concepts are not as distant as we can see here.
If you love your nation (and even more, if you support your love with actions) you are a nationalist. And, of course, you are a patriot too.
People say about Spaniards that they are “wildly autochthonous” (“autóctonamente salvajes”) and Napoleon Bonaparte learnt that lesson in the bad way. I say exactly the same thing about Haitians. Both of them have in an unusual way what their origins means as one of the most beloved values in their lives. That is to be a “nationalist”.
A nation is not an abstract entity, is an organization created and developed by the efforts of the people who belong to that organization. A great nation is in any case the result of hard work and great efforts. It is easy (and very, very convenient) to talk about the global community when you are not doing your homework in the development process and the people looking hard for the best future have the right to say: “Hold it, brother!, Hold it, sister! Let us protect ‘our’ nation for ‘our’ people. ‘Our nation’, in other words: the results of ‘our’ efforts. Then will see what we can do for other people”.
The social contract is not a global one, it is for every group of persons with strong ties and a common future that are every day looking for order and progress. To defend the results of that task is to be a nationalist and to be a patriot indeed.
By the way, I am proudly a Dominican nationalist and I would like to see who dares to say I am not a patriot (well, not as patriot as our founding fathers but as patriot as we can be nowadays).

Edited on 1/8/2009 2:59 PM by PeRod.

#10 - Posted 8 January 2009, 12:51 PM
cibaeño75 Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 3638	RE: patriots vs nationalists Quote: PeRod previously said: Gentlemen, which way is this going on? Now a patriot is not a nationalist and a nationalist is not a patriot? Now is good to be a patriot and is bad (Wow, “Bad”!) to be a nationalist? Now we do not have good nationalists and bad patriots? For me these two concepts are not as distant as we can see here. If you love your nation (and even more, if you support your love with actions) you are a nationalist. And, of course, you are a patriot too. People say about Spaniards that they are “wildly autochthonous” (“autóctonamente salvajes”) and Napoleon Bonaparte learnt that lesson in the bad way. I say exactly the same thing about Haitians. Both of them have in an unusual way what their origins means as a one of the most beloved values in their lives. That is to be a “nationalist”. A nation is not an abstract entity, is an organization created and developed by the efforts of the people who belong to that organization. A great nation is in any case the result of hard work and great efforts. It is easy (and very, very convenient) to talk about the global community when you are not doing your homework in the development process and the people looking hard for the best future have the right to say: “Hold it, brother!, Hold it, sister! Let us protect ‘our’ nation for ‘our’ people. ‘Our nation’, in other words: the results of ‘our’ efforts. Then will see what we can do for other people”. The social contract in not a global one, it is for every group of persons with strong ties and a common future that are every day looking for order and progress. To defend the results of that task is to be a nationalist and to be a patriot indeed. By the way, I am proudly a Dominican nationalist and I would like to see who dares to say I am not a patriot (well, not as patriot as our founding fathers but as patriot as we can be nowadays). Perod there is a difference in the words "patriot" and "nationalist". They may seem interchangeable but they are not. A nationalist, or better yet notionalism, is defined as "loyalty and devotion to a nation ; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups" while a patriot is defined as "One who loves, supports, and defends one's country". In other words nationalists need some "other" from which to measure their supposedly exalted status while a patriot simply loves his country and needs no "other" to make a case for his agenda. I hope that helps. Edited on 1/8/2009 1:07 PM by cibaeño75. 'The past is never dead. In fact, it's not even past.' - William Faulkner
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#1 - Posted 8 January 2009, 1:23 AM
Manhattanite Location: United States Join date: February 2008 Member #: 336 Posts: 1585	patriots vs nationalists A patriot is a man or woman of enlightened principles, who is committed to a republic and its constitution. A patriot is pained when the people stray from the path of liberty and reason and takes it upon his or herself to remind them of their predecessor's ideals. A patriot knows the character of his countrymen (good and bad) and understands all too well their vices which he must continuously remind them of before they cave in to their weakness. A patriot defines his nation by the values they hold dear, instead of defining them against a hated Other. A nationalist is occasionally a man, more often a worm, of the state. ANY state, as long it offers channels for his ambition and the collective rapaciousness. A nationalist is a leech whose sense of self worth is derived from mass delusions of pride instead of his own excellence. Principles are alien to a nationalist as he measures the people by battles won and treasure looted. A nationalist loves to wave flags in public because above all a nationalist is insecure, and his first defense in the face of a patriot is to question the patriot's loyalty. Many people will split these two labels different ways, but I think usually along these same lines. Are you a patriot or a nationalist? Feel free to add! http://englishquisqueya.ning.com
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#2 - Posted 8 January 2009, 2:05 AM
yumnuk3 Location: United States Join date: June 2008 Member #: 926 Posts: 1920	RE: patriots vs nationalists I think that one of the main differences between a patriot and a nationalist is that a nationalist will under no circumstances accept other foreign people as "his". While a patriot is more willing to give outsiders a chance to be part of his culture and if the outsiders prove themselves worthy they will be called and treated as "comrades", irregardless of where they're from or how they look. Edited on 1/8/2009 2:10 AM by yumnuk3. The fate of Los Haitises What you can do Tell the Dominican Embassy in the U.S. that you oppose the government concession to build the cement factory. Telephone 202-332-6280, fax 202-265-8057, or e-mail embassy@us.serex.gov.do
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#3 - Posted 8 January 2009, 2:35 AM
kmnupe Location: United States, NYC Join date: January 2008 Member #: 283 Posts: 390	RE: patriots vs nationalists A patriot takes pride in his culture. A nationalist takes pride in himself. A nationalist waves the flag at all cost. A patriot respects and protects the flag at all costs.
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#4 - Posted 8 January 2009, 7:04 AM
dreadlocks Location: United States Join date: December 2007 Member #: 4 Posts: 8511	RE: patriots vs nationalists kmnupe, under which category would we include arkatype? just asking.
	Post IP: 201.229.144.12*

#5 - Posted 8 January 2009, 7:48 AM
Lautaro Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo Join date: December 2007 Member #: 38 Posts: 4359	RE: patriots vs nationalists A patriot is someone that is not blind to his/her own country's shortcomings, but is also someone who is the first on the frontlines when the country is in danger. A nationalist is someone whose vanity is such that he'd rather see his/her country under the boot of another which he/she deems superior to the hated "other". An historical example of this type of person in our country is Pedro Santana, which preferred to see his country groaning (again) under the spanish flag than to see it being dominated by the haitians, people that in his opinion where nothing more than a horde of barbarians running a republic of maroons, although one could say that his fears weren't entirely unfounded given the policy of expropiations carried out by the haitian gov. against the people of his class during the occupation. I think that the above explanation should suffice in answering your question about arkatype, dread. Edited on 1/8/2009 8:20 AM by Lautaro. “Since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved.” Niccolo Machiavelli
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#6 - Posted 8 January 2009, 8:14 AM
dreadlocks Location: United States Join date: December 2007 Member #: 4 Posts: 8511	RE: patriots vs nationalists as usual, Mr Lautaro, i could not have put it better myself.
	Post IP: 201.229.144.12*

#7 - Posted 8 January 2009, 10:02 AM
kmnupe Location: United States, NYC Join date: January 2008 Member #: 283 Posts: 390	RE: patriots vs nationalists Quote: dreadlocks previously said: kmnupe, under which category would we include arkatype? just asking. Dread, you're trying to cause a scandal LOL! Patriots are few and far in-between. Nationalists are sometimes obsessed with what they are rather than who they are. If someone's claim to fame is that he/she is let's say, an American, then said individual can be lumped with murderous, lecherous, thieving, whoring, hate-monging Americans as well as the best. You take the good with the bad. Some nationalists conveniently forget that their sh*t stink too. Nationalism will get you into war. Patriotism will help you pick up the pieces and rebuild. Edited on 1/8/2009 10:11 AM by kmnupe.
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#8 - Posted 8 January 2009, 12:01 PM
cibaeño75 Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 3638	RE: patriots vs nationalists Awesome thread Manny. I might add that nationalists usually only regergetate soundbites, slogans, and opinions formed by others while most patriots tend to be be free thinkers. Manny, what on earth is your avatar? 'The past is never dead. In fact, it's not even past.' - William Faulkner
	Post IP: 161.185.150.17*

#9 - Posted 8 January 2009, 12:32 PM
PeRod Location: Dominican Republic Join date: June 2008 Member #: 887 Posts: 1577	RE: patriots vs nationalists Gentlemen, which way is this going on? Now a patriot is not a nationalist and a nationalist is not a patriot? Now is good to be a patriot and is bad (Wow, “Bad”!) to be a nationalist? Now we do not have good nationalists and bad patriots? For me these two concepts are not as distant as we can see here. If you love your nation (and even more, if you support your love with actions) you are a nationalist. And, of course, you are a patriot too. People say about Spaniards that they are “wildly autochthonous” (“autóctonamente salvajes”) and Napoleon Bonaparte learnt that lesson in the bad way. I say exactly the same thing about Haitians. Both of them have in an unusual way what their origins means as one of the most beloved values in their lives. That is to be a “nationalist”. A nation is not an abstract entity, is an organization created and developed by the efforts of the people who belong to that organization. A great nation is in any case the result of hard work and great efforts. It is easy (and very, very convenient) to talk about the global community when you are not doing your homework in the development process and the people looking hard for the best future have the right to say: “Hold it, brother!, Hold it, sister! Let us protect ‘our’ nation for ‘our’ people. ‘Our nation’, in other words: the results of ‘our’ efforts. Then will see what we can do for other people”. The social contract is not a global one, it is for every group of persons with strong ties and a common future that are every day looking for order and progress. To defend the results of that task is to be a nationalist and to be a patriot indeed. By the way, I am proudly a Dominican nationalist and I would like to see who dares to say I am not a patriot (well, not as patriot as our founding fathers but as patriot as we can be nowadays). Edited on 1/8/2009 2:59 PM by PeRod.
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November 21, 2009, Updated 7:05 AM
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