cibaeño75 previously said:



Devin, you can cite those numbers but I'm here to add something to them that those statistics cannot and that is this: Dominicans are among the biggest welfare scammers out there. Most of the Dominicans who I knew to be on welfare for a fact when I was growing up typically had parents that worked as well but managed to play the system well. I honestly cannot recall a single Dominican family that I knew to be on welfare that lived solely off the dole, rather it was considered a supplement to other money coming in. I've seen other groups who had memebrs that I knew to be on welfare where their only source of income was welfare. These are phenomenoms that have no hard numbers to reflect them but they are the reality nonetheless. I'm not condoning playing the system but my that fact remains that it is a common practice in my community. My point is that those numbers you cited don't necessarily reflect the reality on the ground.

devin11 previously said:


Cibaeno, I thank you for your an insight that I never considered or had any inside knowledge of. The fact that the numbers may be augmented by scammers and cheaters only makes my point of mocking gestures even more sanctimonious.

cibaeño75 previously said:



Fools abound on both sides of the aisle.

Those cuban numbers you cited. Overall, the national income average for cubans nears that of the non-hispanic white population. Taking that into account and the numbers you have cited one can only conclude that wealth is very unevenly distributed in the cuban community, probably more so than in any other community if all the numbers are right. Either that or the cuban community is also very adept at playing the system, which is also possible.

devin11 previously said:

Sicario,

First of all thank you for your response. Please understand that when you start to cite numbers, it makes me a bit uncomfortable. Your attribute that "96%" of the time Puerto Ricans have maligned you with racism is statistically implausible and truthfully impractical. Your characterization that there are only "a few" ignorant people who feel contempt for the "special treatment" that Puerto Ricans get from the US is equally implausible and impractical, just on the relevance of simple human nature. It is yet another unfortunate gross exagerration on your part to help you prove yet another counterfactual truth. Along with your other claims, such as, "the majority of Puerto Ricans in PR are on welfare (truth: 24%), the poverty level in PR is 60% (truth: 43% by US standards / 10% by Latin America standards), "PR has a higher crime rate that the DR" (truth: the DR murder, kidnapping & rape rates are all much higher than that or PR). You claim to have procured your "facts" from google and some un-named books, you even had a fellow poster claim "I'm sure your facts are right, Sicario" while she salavated at all the disproportionately incorrect and factual myths that you purported. I on the other hand gave you all of the source information for my facts and please note they were all from non-partisan streams of information. Perceptions often take the part of realities and those realities are propagated by the continual myths and counterfactual truths that you yourself help to spread. I'll give you an example of how unchecked perceptions can delude the truth, a fellow poster claimed that the Cubans are the most financially entrenched of all the Hispanics in the US. He did not have any factual evidence on which to back his claim but it was his perception. The truth is that up to 2002, Cubans have the third highest percentage of the welfare roles of any immigrant group in the entire US at 35.3%! In fact they are only .04 percentage points behind the second highest welfare beneficiary group, which is Mexico. The reality is that 49.2% of Cubans in the US live in or near poverty.

Even though many of the posters on this forum mock PR as a welfare state and you yourself claimed that the majority of Puerto Ricans in PR are on welfare. The reality is that there is only 1 and 1 only immigrant group that has ever had a majority of it's people on welfare in both the US and the entitlement programs history. The group that is the largest welfare beneficiary in the US and the only ever to have a majority of it's people on welfare up to 2002 with 58.7% is the Dominican Republic. The highest in poverty level for any immigrant group in the US up to 2002 is also the DR with 25.8%. And the new numbers have not shown any respite since they have gone up in both respects. I don't think there should be any dishonor in the situation of any people that need financial help. I do however feel their should be great dishonor in any people from any country who would mock others, especially when they are far and away the largest beneficiary of that which they mock.

JEM237 previously said:



Devin11, you have come off as an articulate and intelligent person from what you have said in your posts. Now, with that being said, I wouldn't expect a person such as yourself to start assuming things about people, but you in fact ended up doing so with me. First of all, I never "salivated" at any of the statistics that Sicario has provided on here. In fact, when he first started posting his stats, if you re-read carefully, you will see that I first told him "IF you're facts are true Sicaro....." So, Sicario then replied and mentioned that he had gotten his stats from google and other sources, so yes, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. So, now with that out of the way, let me go on and mention some other things: I was born and raised in Newark, NJ and still live here. I'm sure you're quite aware that Newark, NJ has one of the highest concentrations of Puerto Ricans in U.S. (particularly in the Northeast). Throughout most of my school years in grammar school and in high school I was usually one of the few Dominicans in my classes and in the schools I attended, not too mention the neighborhoods in which I have lived. Heck, even my best friend is Puerto Rican. Heck, I even dated one for a short period of time! ( )Case in point, I consider myself someone who has an ample knowledge and understanding of the Puerto Rican people. Whether you like to hear it or not, a lot of the things that have been said on this thread in regards to your people are unfortunately true and as such, I have to agree with them. Why? Because I have witnessed most, if not all, of the many things that have been mentioned here about Ricans (i.e. welfare usage and the feeling of superiority to other Hispanics). Now, I agree with you feeling uncomfortable with made up stats and with stats being blown out of proportion. But the stats that you did provide, such as the 24% welfare and the 43% poverty level percentages are still very high (and yes, I know that you mentioned they were high yourself), and you have a point when you mention that even though these stats are very high Puerto Ricans are still much better off than most other Latin American countries, particularly DR in this case. But, like several others have mentioned, because of the affiliation that PR has with the U.S. via its commonwealth status, many Puerto Ricans (too many in my opinion) feel that they are better than other Latinos and have even gone as far as calling other Latin American residents in the U.S. "immigrants" as a derogatory term and boasting about the fact that they don't have to file papers for a visa and they don't need a passport. I have had many arguments with Puerto Ricans because many Puerto Ricans seem to think that everyone in DR is poor and starving and living like people in places such as Rwanda and look down on Dominicans because of such. The fact that they there are Dominicans going to PR on yolas doesn't help, but nevertheless, I always make it point to clarify things when I get into these arguments. So, to make a long story short, what I want to say is that at the end of the day, most Caucasians in the U.S. lump all Latinos under the same umbrella. When a Caucasian sees a name of Raul Rodriguez, he's not thinking "Hmm, I wonder if this guy is Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Colombian?, etc." "I wonder if Raul prefers pernil, mangu, or tortillas?" That Caucasian doesn't care and is thinking that Raul Rodriguez is just any other Latino. So, that's why I and many other hispanics have a problem when many Puerto Ricans trying to put down other hispanics over stupidities, but more importantly many forget that if not for the U.S., they would be in just as bad shape as most other Latin American countries. So, I ask myself, what's the point of thinking you're better than another Latino, if you know you're just as dependent, (if not more) on the U.S. than any other Latin country and at the end of the day we are all seen as the same? So Devin, maybe Sicario is wrong by saying that "96%" of the time he's encountered racism from Puerto Ricans, he should probably say "most of the time" or "a lot of times" vs. quoting percentages, but what he is saying about racism that many Puerto Ricans have towards other Latinos is not statiscally implausible and impractical. I assure you that if you were to go to any Latin neighborhood in the Northeast and took a survey amongst non Puerto Rican Latinos, you will find that all if not most have experienced some form of racism from a Puerto Rican. I have had the pleasure of coming across educated Puerto Ricans that do not think or act this way, but I have to admit that this has not been the most common scenario.

CarlosFranco previously said:

May i remind those who keep bring statistics about dominicans in the US, that we are one of the most recent arrivals to the US... that our impact and potential has not been shown.... that our community has still many ties to the motherland and so many of our people wish to return to the island and don't make a full commitment at becoming citizens... Every community in US immigration history uses the system until they're on their feet, and in some communities that came at the beginning of the 20th century, those problems have not left them... like the Irish or the Italians, but have managed to rise as a respectable group... In time so shall we...

We are already being felt everywhere... In NYC local economy, in Hollywood, in votes, In the Military... and here's a fact "Over 21% of all second-generation Dominican Americans have college degrees, slightly below the national average (24%) but significantly higher than U.S.-born Mexican Americans (13%) and U.S.-born Puerto Rican Americans (12%)."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_American#Adjustment_and_development
Castro, Max J. (2002). The Dominican Diaspora Revisited, Dominicans and Dominican-Americans in a New Century.