#51 - Posted 20 February 2009, 4:25 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: What's up with DT?
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dreadlocks previously said:

and Gizmo, you attacked me with unexpected vitriol , simply for suggesting that the DR look toward import substitution, and reduce its dependency on foreign inputs. that, my friend, is an expression of concern, not a put down. in case you are unaware, the current account deficit is expanding exponentially every year. that is caused by excessive foreign currency outflow. do you believe that Papa John just allows you to use their name and ingredients because you write them a polite letter of request? do you believe that the orientals would be where they are if they simply allowed everybody else to set up shop in their country, displacing local entrepreneurs by strength of cash? how many chinese heads do you count when you go into McDonalds in the USA? i know, you can get Big Macs and starbucks in Beijing, but the USA owes chinese sovereign wealth funds over a trillion dollars, not the other way around. so, before you allow some personal dispositions to cloud your judgement, inclining you to attack people, understand the gravamen and intent of the post. if you find self reliance offensive, you cause me to wonder.


That has always been my school of thought, dread. When a country allows foreigners to own the majority of that said country's means of production, it'll not be long before those foreigners start dictating the internal policy of their host. Heck, if anyone have any doubts about it, one only have to study how british colonialism started in India and Africa, or the US "dollar diplomacy" to see how imperialism works.
Edited on 2/20/2009 4:27 PM by Lautaro.
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#52 - Posted 20 February 2009, 4:50 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
Mr Lautaro, there is hardly a foodstuff in any country which sells more than bagged snacks , like potato chips. everyone likes them. kids eat them for lunch. adults love a nice, salty , potato chip with their beer. they represent a massive fraction of the money spent on foodstuff in any nation, if only because they are convenient, not for their nutritous merits. now, i ask you, why on God's green earth is every bag of potato chips in this land labelled Frito Lay? are you telling me that dominicans cannot make a potato chip? it is not like making a space shuttle, fellows. housewives in Madison, Wisconsin, and Boise , Idaho, make them in their kitchens when company comes over for the tupperware party. why is it that you find that the other caribbean territories have their home grown bagged snacks, but in this country ,a foreign based concern is producing a simple thing like banana chips, and repatriating the money it garners from sales to kids in El Limon? i guess that Gizmo will invite me to start a factory, since it takes capital and expertise. i guess we have no capital to build a potato chip factory, and Dominicans cannot learn to operate a slicer and an oven
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#53 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:02 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: What's up with DT?
Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

Mr Lautaro, there is hardly a foodstuff in any country which sells more than bagged snacks , like potato chips. everyone likes them. kids eat them for lunch. adults love a nice, salty , potato chip with their beer. they represent a massive fraction of the money spent on foodstuff in any nation, if only because they are convenient, not for their nutritous merits. now, i ask you, why on God's green earth is every bag of potato chips in this land labelled Frito Lay? are you telling me that dominicans cannot make a potato chip? it is not like making a space shuttle, fellows. housewives in Madison, Wisconsin, and Boise , Idaho, make them in their kitchens when company comes over for the tupperware party. why is it that you find that the other caribbean territories have their home grown bagged snacks, but in this country ,a foreign based concern is producing a simple thing like banana chips, and repatriating the money it garners from sales to kids in El Limon? i guess that Gizmo will invite me to start a factory, since it takes capital and expertise. i guess we have no capital to build a potato chip factory, and Dominicans cannot learn to operate a slicer and an oven


The answer is easy, dread. You'll find the "Dominicans cannot learn to operate a slicer and an oven" mentality because to make that, that is, to enter into a business venture like that takes time and effort to finally see the fruits that can be derived of it. This is one of the things that you and I have discussed more than once with Manhattanite about the dangers of emigration and the incentive of keeping this "situado" (remmittance) economic scheme to the development and well-being of our countries, because more often than not, foolish expats, flashing their golden chains and flashy shoes, give the Josés and Belkys from el campo the wrong impression, as if the streets of NYC were paved in gold and the only thing that one had to do is to go for it, or die trying, instead of waging the fight where it counts, that is, on their own country, the only place on earth where they aren't foreigners.

Edited on 2/20/2009 5:06 PM by Lautaro.
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#54 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:21 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
Mr Lautaro, that is too powerful for me to respond to, but i will try. part of the problem is that we have fallen victim to self doubt, and the belief that the foreigners are our betters. so, we have guys who opine , in lunatic fashion, that the advent of Papa John's Pizza is a sign of progress. au contraire, mon frere. what would be a sign of progress is the opening of a major Dominican chain, and THE ACCEPTANCE OF IT BY DOMINICANS. instead of reflexively expecting it to be inferior, because it is locally conceived, if people supported it wholesale, that would be progresss. but, as you say, the gold chain and FUBU shirt gang, with the 200 dollar Jordan sneakers, have Belkis mesmerised. so, it is a sign of lower status to buy a 700 peso cellphone, because all good folks in Zoo York are using 15,000 peso blackberries. and God forbid one should contemplate buying a pair of sneakers in a flea market. that is just beneath dignity .what Manolo forgot to tell Belkis is that the gold chain and scorpion pendant really belongs to his friend from the pawnshop, who expects it back on the first monday after his return, or he forfeits the security deposit he paid to rent it for the week.
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#55 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:27 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

Mr Lautaro, that is too powerful for me to respond to, but i will try. part of the problem is that we have fallen victim to self doubt, and the belief that the foreigners are our betters. so, we have guys who opine , in lunatic fashion, that the advent of Papa John's Pizza is a sign of progress. au contraire, mon frere. what would be a sign of progress is the opening of a major Dominican chain, and THE ACCEPTANCE OF IT BY DOMINICANS. instead of reflexively expecting it to be inferior, because it is locally conceived, if people supported it wholesale, that would be progresss. but, as you say, the gold chain and FUBU shirt gang, with the 200 dollar Jordan sneakers, have Belkis mesmerised. so, it is a sign of lower status to buy a 700 peso cellphone, because all good folks in Zoo York are using 15,000 peso blackberries. and God forbid one should contemplate buying a pair of sneakers in a flea market. that is just beneath dignity .what Manolo forgot to tell Belkis is that the gold chain and scorpion pendant really belongs to his friend from the pawnshop, who expects it back on the first monday after his return, or he forfeits the security deposit he paid to rent it for the week.


You know what the ironic thing is? That the same "streets paved with gold" mentality would be the same motivation that the spaniards had to come to these lands. What a nasty surprise would be for them to find that reality fell abysmally short to their expectations and with an unforgiving climate, to boot. But then, I guess that there's some truth to the old saying that goes by "The more things change, the more they remain the same".
Edited on 2/20/2009 5:30 PM by Lautaro.
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#56 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:28 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
and, Mr Lautaro, let it be known that countries like Japan started out after the wars with very little, except for self reliance, and planning. so, when they bought the oldsmobile or the packard, it was not in order to show off on the neighbors: it was to study and copy it. to this day, they protect local industry with an iron fist. i am not a protectionist by philosophy, but a balance has to be struck. entrepreneurs have no chance if every day some mammoth operations from diverse parts of the planet, announce yet one more "investment" here, to produce some simple thing like coconut macaroons. fellas, there are some things simple enough that we can master. the other guys are not that much smarter than us, for God's sakes!
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#57 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:31 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
I think remittances and these gold-encrusted expatriates are a separate issue from that of unchallenged foreign enterprises. Lays would be in DR regardless of what has occurred in the sphere of immigration. Creating a challenger to them would take hope and ambition in the heart of local entrepreneurs. Dominican emigration did not crush hopes and ambition in DR, if anything emigration has been one of the few refuges for hope and ambition, and a source of entrepreneurial impulses.

It is certainly possible for Dominicans to compete with Pepsico's snacks. Didn't Bon just successfully fight off Nestle? Not all are resigned as you guys make it seem.

Edited on 2/20/2009 5:32 PM by Manhattanite.
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#58 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:32 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
Mr Lautaro, that "streets paved with gold" insight is sheer magic and poetry. you have me stalled. let me regroup, please.
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#59 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:40 PM
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RE: What's up with DT?
Manhattanite, i cannot dispute you findings about the presence of the multi nationals being here, regardless of immigration. the only point i am trying to make is that the celebration of the arrival of something so inconsequential as a pizza store, speaks to the issue of the unbridled celebration of things external. i am only saying that if we nurture this belief that "foreign is better", where does that leave room for entrepreneural impulse? would you want to invest in a product line, knowing full well that the prospective customer will reflexively assume that it has got to be inferior, because a dominican made it? i can understand cheering for the arrival of some advanced medical science lab, for instance. but pizza? i hardly think that people outside the dominican community celebrate the opening of a Caridad restaurant in their countries. at least, not to the degree that we would if Popeyes opened up in Playa Dorada. then, we would drive by 43 pica pollos to buy some chicken from the only guys who can do it right: the foreigner!
Edited on 2/20/2009 5:43 PM by dreadlocks.
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#60 - Posted 20 February 2009, 5:40 PM
Location: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
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RE: What's up with DT?
Quote:
dreadlocks previously said:

and, Mr Lautaro, let it be known that countries like Japan started out after the wars with very little, except for self reliance, and planning. so, when they bought the oldsmobile or the packard, it was not in order to show off on the neighbors: it was to study and copy it. to this day, they protect local industry with an iron fist. i am not a protectionist by philosophy, but a balance has to be struck. entrepreneurs have no chance if every day some mammoth operations from diverse parts of the planet, announce yet one more "investment" here, to produce some simple thing like coconut macaroons. fellas, there are some things simple enough that we can master. the other guys are not that much smarter than us, for God's sakes!


It might sound egotistic, but that's why I can't help but feel hopeless for the future of my country every time I examine the possibility of Cuba recovering from the embargo, cuz' I know that the DR have wasted the opportunity afforded by the preference that the US have given it in the last few years over the neighbour across the Windward Channel. Have we had a countrywide discipline (and self-confidence) shown by countries such as Chile and Costa Rica, we would have had a leverage from which to rely on when the time comes.
Edited on 2/20/2009 5:43 PM by Lautaro.
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