Bravo, bravo for apologizing. Perod is a good man.

Forget about history CaonaboAyti and lest fast forward to the present.
And your point is:
"Concerned and Progressive Haitians understand these nuances whereby we do not blame the Dominican people for it but the unconscionable leaders and elite whose only purpose is to inject venom, exploit, divide and conquer".
And you are one of those few concerned and progressive Haitians, correct?
BTW Let me apologize for the brutality of some contributors, you seem to be more civilized than the
usual breed of Haitians that we come across invading our forums as well.
So the big questions is:

And what are YOU going to do about it?
What is the solution?
How do you intend to stop the mass exporting of your poor, sick, pregnant and unemployed? To other countries mainly the DR?
The solution to Haiti's problems can not come from he DR or any other nation for that matter. It has to come from within Haiti itself.

Your analysis of the fledgling Haitian state is very interesting. So you actually see Petion as an oppresor? That's very much at odds with the view of said figure outside of Haiti. Care to expand on your hypothesis regarding Petion? As for Dessalines you must be made aware of the fact that he occupies a very dark page in our history and it can be said with certainty that much of the blame for the historical animosity that exists between our people can be clearly placed at the feet of this man.

It is possible that some of you may be more informed than I am or vice versa. Though I feel I know a great deal, I am open to do more investigation on the historical record. It is expected that our gaps will most likely lead to conflicts of opinion. It does not have to come to all this visceral anger that is being projected on this forum.
I am very glad I signed up for this forum though because I never before interacted with Dominican brothers and sisters who expressed themselves this way. Thanks to the internet, I believe, we have a HISTORIC OPPORTUNITY to put everything on the table today.

most haitian who come to this forum they do so to brag and pick a fight with dominican.

]Here's the thing: In 1806, Henri Christophe and Alexandre Petion betrayed Dessalines, ambushed and assassinated him after he led `an expedition in Southern Haiti. Petion and Christophe after the revolution and the death of Dessalines became oppressors of the Haitian masses. Later in 1818 when Boyer came to power, he also became a dictator and oppressed the Haitian people. When Boyer invaded the other side of the island which was to become the Dominican Republic after a heroic struggle, the Haitian masses protested against his decision to do so. People were beat up, thrown in jail and killed during those protests

our problem with haiti did not stop in 1844 it continue almost to the end of the century if you count our leader trying to annex our country for protection from the haiti. when the haitian invaded so many different time they did so as a nation not individual.

Therefore, you cannot blame the Haitian people for what their oppressors did much like we cannot blame the American people for what the imperialists did to our two countries. One instance is the Marchaterre Massacre of hundreds of peasants by US marines in the early 1920s. We cannot blame the American people for that. There are at present at least 20,000 Americans living in Haiti today. We don’t go around organizing mob violence against them. The problem and the danger lie in the fact that the common folks in the Dominican Republic are constantly manipulated by Machiavellian leaders who continually present to them information intentionally in a twisted way without very important nuances. That's why today there is a prevalence of mob violence against Haitian Immigrant Workers and Dominican of Haitian descent in the Dominican Republic.

these mob as you put it are dominican fed up because their job are being taken over by illegal people from haiti or their job at the mercy to work for the same money given to the illegal haitian. when you got a haitian accused of some crime against dominican what they see is look at these people we given them shelter and look how they pay us. that is when you see the "mob" going after the haitian. these mob as you see it will escalate until the govt do something about it.

Concerned and Progressive Haitians understand these nuances whereby we do not blame the Dominican people for it but the unconscionable leaders and elite whose only purpose is to inject venom, exploit, divide and conquer. They manipulate the historical events to make it appear as if they have common purpose with the masses as Dominicans not against Spain, not against the U.S. but against Haiti when in fact they are exploiting and oppressing those same masses ferociously in the DR.
The ideas in this post are very concentrated but eventually will have to be broken down for further debate.

actually those people who you blame are the same people who hire illegal haitian. because of them is why the haitian problem escalated so high. our leader are corrupt and they only see the money sign in these illegal people without the terrible consequence and burden it put on our country.. our elite are the same one who hire somebody to hire them for cheap labor.

Caonabohayti, why Haitians never talk about the future?
You are still living in 1804. You like to talk about Emperors and Kings and how you defeated Napoleon's troops (after that we defeat your troops during twelve years –we are incredible!–) and how you helped our freedom in this hemisphere and how you took over the whole island and how great a long, long time ago Haiti was, but now you have a big, big problem ahead.
What are you going to do with your future?
How are you going to tell to all those rich and powerful drug traffickers, to all those rich and powerful smugglers, to all those rich and powerful kidnappers and to all of those rich and powerful corrupts in your government that you are going to build a new Haiti and that they and their businesses are not an important part in the whole plan?
We do not want anything from Haiti. We need a lot of things but you do not have anything to give (I am talking in material terms).
What do you want from us?
Do you want friendship? We can give you that (we have a lot).
Do you want commercial interchanges? No problem.
Do you want cultural interchanges? No problem.
Do you want sports interchanges? No problem. We use to play baseball and you use to play football but there is no problem.
Do you want general amnesty for your people? No way. Do not even think about that. We are not going to give our citizenship to those 2,000,000 Haitians. We are going to absorb a reasonable share but it is necessary a massive repatriation. That is not negotiable.
What do you want from us?
We would like to help as far as we do not hurt our own people.
What do you want from us?

"Caonabohayti, why Haitians never talk about the future?
You are still living in 1804. You like to talk about Emperors and Kings and how you defeated Napoleon's troops (after that we defeat your troops during twelve years –we are incredible!–) and how you helped our freedom in this hemisphere and how you took over the whole island and how great a long, long time ago Haiti was, but now you have a big, big problem ahead.
What are you going to do with your future?"

I do not know the Haitians you speak to but a growing number of people in the masses in Haiti are building the future as we speak because they are more and more taking responsibility for their lives without the support of the corrupt government and rotten ruling classes. At present, we are going through this rough journey but our future is glorious because we dare to struggle and we will win.


"How are you going to tell to all those rich and powerful drug traffickers, to all those rich and powerful smugglers, to all those rich and powerful kidnappers and to all of those rich and powerful corrupts in your government that you are going to build a new Haiti and that they and their businesses are not an important part in the whole plan?"

They will find out in due time.

"We do not want anything from Haiti. We need a lot of things but you do not have anything to give (I am talking in material terms)."

You, PeRod, may not want anything from Haiti just as I don't want anything form the Dominican Republic at this stage. However, the Dominican elite knows all too well that it needs Haiti's cheap labor intensively to sustain the Dominican economy. Without this labor, the whole economy would fall flat. Secondly, Haiti is the DR's chief trading market where the Dominican elite profits more than U.S. $800 million annually. The Dominican elite got filthy rich when none of this wealth trickled down to the Dominican masses who day in, day out are living in total poverty just like their counterparts in Haiti. It is these people that the Dominican elite is manipulating with a vulgar anti-Haitianism to divide and conquer. Both the Dominican and Haitian elites concur to exploit and oppress the Haitian and Dominican masses for as long as they are allowed to on both sides of the island. It is totally ridiculous that we allow these people to play their games and pit us one against the other on a day to day basis.

"What do you want from us?
Do you want friendship? We can give you that (we have a lot).
Do you want commercial interchanges? No problem.
Do you want cultural interchanges? No problem.
Do you want sports interchanges? No problem. We use to play baseball and you use to play football but there is no problem."

If we are looking ahead toward the future, the question is not posed as "what do we want from you?" but rather "how should two people sharing the same island best relate?" Here we can look at a whole lot of possibilities, namely, mutual respect, mutual understanding, peace, solidarity etc. As we speak, there are Haitian and Dominican Brothers and Sisters who are actually working on those issues in the People's Camp on the island and also in United States. We are doing this with full knowledge of the manipulation and exploitation by the Dominican elite of the anti-Haitianismo based on past experiences in the DR. Again, the anti-Haitianismo of the Dominican elite is a mechanism of divide and conquer against the unity of the Dominican and Haitian masses. In reality, the Dominican elite has absolutely no anti-Haitianismo toward the Haitian elite. Therefore, we all have to make a gigantic effort to dissociate ourselves with that anti-Haitianismo ideology. It is very dehumanizing to all of us.

"Do you want general amnesty for your people? No way. Do not even think about that. We are not going to give our citizenship to those 2,000,000 Haitians. We are going to absorb a reasonable share but it is necessary a massive repatriation. That is not negotiable.
What do you want from us?
We would like to help as far as we do not hurt our own people.
What do you want from us?"

The Haitian Immigrant Workers in the Dominican Republic are not an accident. The Dominican elite and economy have a need for intensive cheap labor supply that needs to be replenished periodically every so often. Haiti is a major suppier of this labor supply. The Dominican elite builds this labor supply through Human traficking at the border of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haitian Immigrant Workers no longer work only in agriculture; they are also in construction and many other sectors in the economy. The Dominican elite exploits them excessively and then throw them on the streets when they don't need them anymore. It also uses Haitian cheap labor to drag down wages of Dominican Workers. Now because there are Haitian laborers, those that are thrown on the streets now begin to look for other opportunities and therefore sometimes may become street peddlers to serve those workers what they need. Sociologically speaking, it makes a lot of sense. It is a natural and social progression created by the policies of the Dominican elite and government.
We, in the social justice for immigrant movement, are demanding in the DR the same rights we claim for Dominican, Haitian, and Mexican immigrants in the United States. The Dominican government must implement provisions in its constitution that create a clear pathway for the Haitian Immigrant Workers to legalize their status and seek Dominican citizenship if they so wish. This pathway exists for all nationals in the Dominican Republic except for Haitians. It is not a fair system. The Dominican elite fears the unity of the Dominican and Haitian Workers under their domination. That's why they are using all types of antagonisms in all forms among those masses to keep them divided for as long as possible.

We have the responsibility to build a better future on this island without those rotten Haitian and Domincan elites with their bankrupt ideology. We have to help the masses on both sides of the island recognize the power of their unity in the fight against exploitation and for a better world.

April fool


http://www.eljaya.com/200903-2/n-haiti.php


Serán invertidos US$6,500 millones en construcción de ciudad de lujo en Haití

Baloney, pure smoke. Don't believe a word of it.

We Dominicans do not agree with your concept of "sharing". You share when you bring something to the table, other than strong backs and resistance to hard work with little maintenance what do Haitians offer the Dominicans?
This is the whole point if I may say so.
Some selected Haitians could be allowed to legalize their status, but they must also
prove their economic status or be currently employed or have a letter from a recognized employer, become literate and speak spanish, pass a physical examination, learn Dominican history, and swear allegiance to the Dominican Republic and pass a test, if later they wanted to become citizens. The same as in any other civilized country that accepts immigrants.

[QUOTE=Caonabohayti]

[B]The Haitian Immigrant Workers in the Dominican Republic are not an accident. The Dominican elite and economy have a need for intensive cheap labor supply that needs to be replenished periodically every so often. Haiti is a major suppier of this labor supply. The Dominican elite builds this labor supply through Human traficking at the border of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haitian Immigrant Workers no longer work only in agriculture; they are also in construction and many other sectors in the economy. The Dominican elite exploits them excessively and then throw them on the streets when they don't need them anymore. It also uses Haitian cheap labor to drag down wages of Dominican Workers. Now because there are Haitian laborers, those that are thrown on the streets now begin to look for other opportunities and therefore sometimes may become street peddlers to serve those workers what they need. Sociologically speaking, it makes a lot of sense. It is a natural and social progression created by the policies of the Dominican elite and government.
We, in the social justice for immigrant movement, are demanding in the DR the same rights we claim for Dominican, Haitian, and Mexican immigrants in the United States. The Dominican government must implement provisions in its constitution that create a clear pathway for the Haitian Immigrant Workers to legalize their status and seek Dominican citizenship if they so wish. This pathway exists for all nationals in the Dominican Republic except for Haitians. It is not a fair system. The Dominican elite fears the unity of the Dominican and Haitian Workers under their domination. That's why they are using all types of antagonisms in all forms among those masses to keep them divided for as long as possible.

[/QUOTE]

It seems to me you need to get to know Dominicans a little more in depth, and stop treating us all like idiots. While official anti-haitianismo may have been used by the elites, today's anti-haitianismo by the average person is brought about by what they see on a daily basis. I'll explain: you claim to be part of an organization that defends immigrants' rights in the States, and if that is true, you will know that when a worker's visa expires, that person's status in the country becomes illegal and they are subject to deportation. Heck, even if they have a job they are subject to deportation and those that hire them are subject to stiff penalties. That's if they're in the US illegally. If they're there legally, then they must have gone through a SEVERAL YEARS LONG visa application process where application, money, medical exam, etc. is required.

If you're demanding in DR the SAME rights you do in the States, this implies you expect DR to behave like the United States. Yet, If the Dominican Republic were to act JUST LIKE the United States, these "evil elites" would be getting fined like crazy to the extent of potentially going out of business. The border would be in the process of closure. Haitians would just as well have to go through this SEVERAL YEARS LONG visa process, medical exam included. Mass deportations would be the norm. If all of this were done, people just like you would be the first ones crying foul, racism, xenophobia, etc. etc. and working with the hypocritical international "community" to stop this.

Haiti has ALWAYS wanted to take from DR without giving anything in exchange and Dominicans continue to see examples of this on a daily basis. Your hypocrasy is constantly exposed and no elite needs to preach or practice anti-haitianismo for the average Dominican to see this.