cibaeño75 previously said:



It's my understanding that Dessaline had women and children murdered as well. Are these lies that history has passed don to us?

generoso previously said:



We all agree that the conditions in Saint Domingue West were horrible for the poor slaves, more so than in other caribbean islands, as a matter of fact, slaves were threatened in other islands to be sent to SD if they didn't work harder.
The French colonists were whip bearing beasts and the "grand blancs" royalists slave drivers with no compassion for their fellow man, instituting living conditions so dreadful that the slaves had no other choice than to rebel or die a slower death.
But the evident fact is that the slaves could not continue the sugar business that made the island rich
without the guidance and help of the hated French, sad but true. You may not agree on the nature of the sugar business, but the fact remains that they could have diversified into other types of crops if sugar carried too much of an "evil" crop label, but they didn't.

generoso previously said:



What about Spartacus slave rebellion agaisnt the Romans 100 years before Christ?
That one doesn't count?
Papa Touissant welcomed back the French colonists that were "the oppressors" in an attempt to revive the failing sugar industry.
Later the slaves remained technically "free" but in reality they were under the same yoke of oppression or worse than when the "grand blancs" were in charge.
Henri Christophe used the backs of poor Haitians to build the "Citadelle" high on top of a mountain near Cape Haitien, getting 20,000 Haitians killed in the construction because of rough terrain and harsh living conditions. Twenty thousand! Is that being liberated, to slowly kill in hard forced labor, for a useless fortress 20,000 of your country men? A fortress that was just the crazy dream of a mad despot who was ignored by the French?

Caonabohayti previously said:


generoso, you seem to be going all over the place. What's your point here?

Gizmo previously said:


*******HAYTI
"generoso previously said:

So that explains a lot of things.
The Haitians exported and exiled the best human capital in a thirst to confiscate their properties and keep them for high rankings Haitian military that were turned over as a war price."

You are referring to a Revolutionary War which means the transformation of property relations where one class is overthrown and replaced by another. The goal of the revolution was not to "export and exile the best human capital in a thirst to confiscate their properties....Rather it was to overthrow first and foremost the bloody Slavery System and achieve Independence for the country. That is called Historical Materialism. In your blind thirst to downgrade the Glorious and only successful Slave Revolution Humanity has ever known, you are propagating disinformation wholesale.

GENEROSO
What about Spartacus slave rebellion agaisnt the Romans 100 years before Christ?
That one doesn't count?
Papa Touissant welcomed back the French colonists that were "the oppressors" in an attempt to revive the failing sugar industry.
Later the slaves remained technically "free" but in reality they were under the same yoke of oppression or worse than when the "grand blancs" were in charge.
Henri Christophe used the backs of poor Haitians to build the "Citadelle" high on top of a mountain near Cape Haitien, getting 20,000 Haitians killed in the construction because of rough terrain and harsh living conditions. Twenty thousand! Is that being liberated, to slowly kill in hard forced labor, for a useless fortress 20,000 of your country men? A fortress that was just the crazy dream of a mad despot who was ignored by the French?


GIZMO
Thank you Generoso in enlighting us with reality instead of fantasy. Don't forget that Toussaint was jumping on different band wagons before he finally decided to join the French. Also the 1791 massacres administered by the rebellious slaves towards there slave holders mostly mulatto, and the white masters that fell decimated, only those that escaped survived. But to add to that macabre statistic, French colonist were invited by Toussaint Louverture a few hundred of them returned after things were back in control. They met the same fate as those in 1791, but these were tricked and were invited by Dessalines to join them in a victory parade. The celebration was the defeat of the French, the last battle of Vertieres. The whites trusting Dessalines were massacred and the woman were forced to marry the black soldiers or where raped savagely and killed. From the old to the very young they were all brutally assassinated. Despite that as you stated serfdom was a practical thing for the tyrant Haitian rulers, so much for a revolution against slavery.

Manhattanite previously said:


As for Dessalines....well Mr.Caonabo has an uphill battle to fight if he wants to repair that man's rep amongst us Dominicans.

generoso previously said:


Point is that your "revolution" did not bring quality of life improvement to the Haitian masses, as one
white slave master was substituted for a black, or mulatto slave master, this time in military clothing.
Much worse it brought about an uncontrollable downward spiraling economic depression, aggravated by the signing of the compensation treaty with the French at their gunpoint, that destroyed any possibility of the Haitian economy's survival.

Caonabohayti previously said:


That is all to say, generoso, your point is pointless!

Caonabohayti previously said:


generoso,
Since classes emerged in History, every Human Society has been plagued by class struggles generating revolutions after revolutions. It was no different when Haiti became Independent. The old class system of slavery was completely destroyed and in its ashes emerged new classes. In the case of Haiti, we had the class of Big Landowners and the class of Peasants as the principal classes of society. Wherever there are classes, there will always be class struggles also. Think about the French Revolution and the American Revolution. Classes survived after those revolutions and therefore you have class struggles between the capitalists and the workers. So you could say the same about them too. Workers in the U.S. are living day to day on the brink of poverty and one paycheck away from being homeless for those that are lucky enough. To be really educated today, you have to have a knowledge of the class structure of society otherwise you will not understand anything about the past, present or the future. Lack of this knowledge on the part of some of our Dominican brothers and sisters has been a major obstacle in their understanding of past actions between Haiti and their side of the border. The Dominican elite and politicians exploits this to the maximum to lie and plant their rotten anti-Haitianismo ideology against Haitian Workers. Even Dominican companeros who have achieved the knowledge of these facts are afraid to speak out so that they are not branded "Traitors".
That is all to say, generoso, your point is pointless!