| #1 - Posted 9 April 2009, 2:29 PM | |
Location: United States, New York, NY Join date: December 2007 Member #: 16 Posts: 860 | Fix Your Country first I'm sick and tired of people coming here and bashing the Domincan Republic on all fronts. Especially, when they continuously ewant to attack Dominicans on racial ideologies. The Dominican Republic has its fallacy's like any other colonized country. Cuba, Brazil, Panama, Mexico, and Haiti to name a few fall under these pretenses with a history of racial issues. However, the Dominican Republic, has a united group of people and blessed diverse group of individuals. We love each other for being Dominican. There has never been a racial civil war and will never be. As long as we remain united and stay to our idiosyncracies which make us uniquely and unequivocally Dominican. Our "dominicaness" is who were are and is what we share amongst our blessed diverse people. I see there is storm brewing which tries to label Dominicans as racists as a form of justifying DR/HT relations. The truthful answer is that Haiti and DR relations are more complex than that. However, Haiti has a history of racist policies, prejudicies, and stigma. It just stems in the formation of the country where land owned by whites where taken away while whites and mulattoes were torture, killed, and force to flee the country. Till this day, there is a disdain, hatred, and stigma headed by the majority black population towards the tiny mulatto class. This mulatto class continues to rule Haiti while exploiting the massive poor, uneducated, and nalnutritioned black Haitians. Most black Haitians, are not as proud as they claim about their black heritiage and the minority of mulattoes would prefer to keep their racial identity intact. Haiti is littered with racial prejudices, policies, and historical anomisities towards whites and mulattoes. Haitians are very divided and this division has lead to there demise as a naiton. Edited on 4/9/2009 3:17 PM by ny4life. |
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| #2 - Posted 9 April 2009, 2:45 PM | |
Location: United States, Chicago - Future Dominican Resident Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2464 Posts: 51 | RE: Fix Your Country first I would be willing to engage you in discussion--however, I am weary of the insults which are common to the forum. If you agree to have a objective and fact-based discussion, I will be more than happy to continue this exchange. If you do, I will disagree with you at times, but will always respect your opinions. |
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| #3 - Posted 9 April 2009, 2:52 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 5911 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: SabioRosa previously said: I would be willing to engage you in discussion--however, I am weary of the insults which are common to the forum. If you agree to have a objective and fact-based discussion, I will be more than happy to continue this exchange. If you do, I will disagree with you at times, but will always respect your opinions. How can you engage in a discussion on this subject when you supposedly know nothing about the Dominican Republic or her people?!?...hay Padre Santo.... "If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill |
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| #4 - Posted 9 April 2009, 2:59 PM | |
Location: United States, Chicago - Future Dominican Resident Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2464 Posts: 51 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: How can you engage in a discussion on this subject when you supposedly know nothing about the Dominican Republic or her people?!?...hay Padre Santo.... Can you think of a better way to learn? Edited on 4/9/2009 3:00 PM by SabioRosa. |
Post IP: 150.176.182.2* | |
| #5 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:04 PM | |
Location: United States, New York City Join date: February 2008 Member #: 411 Posts: 5911 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: SabioRosa previously said: Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: How can you engage in a discussion on this subject when you supposedly know nothing about the Dominican Republic or her people?!?...hay Padre Santo.... Can you think of a better way to learn? If you do, I will disagree with you at times, but will always respect your opinions. If you are so ready to disagree before any discussion begins that indicates that you already have preconceived notions that you will not deviate from, which means you are not engaging in this discussion to learn but to pontificate. "If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill |
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| #6 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:04 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: SabioRosa previously said: I would be willing to engage you in discussion--however, I am weary of the insults which are common to the forum. If you agree to have a objective and fact-based discussion, I will be more than happy to continue this exchange. If you do, I will disagree with you at times, but will always respect your opinions. Some of the things you said above in teh initial thread do make sense. The stupidity and lack of knowledge over the complexity of the relationship between the two nations it is not coming from Haitians who come on this site alone, but also it is coming from even some Dominicans as well who feel that they can post defaming, derogating and discriminative posts and expoect for those who are of Haitian backgrounds to not defend or contest the claims. Anyway, historically you are right such event did take place in Haiti and so did the event or occurence when Alexander Sabes Petion retracted the theruling or the law of Dessalines' and impose a new one thus allowed white, mulatoes and the upper elites to possess most of Haiti's wealth why Haiti itself was divided as both South and the North with the King Henry Christopher opposing Petion's view. Even DR went through its own divisive political negative tenures regarding this issue just as teh same as Haiti did. One thing the mass populace of both Nations needed to have had learned was to not have had allowed the political Elites (which most were Exiles politicians) to have fed them with divisive lies and created resentments for hatred. One thing that I am sure most Dominicans do not take into account is that many of the Haitian invasion attempts were invited by those Dominican Exile Elites who needed a cause to defeat the ideologies of other Dominican Compatriots they have opposed. Were mistakes made in both part of the Island nations, you can bet there were plenty; but whatever we do from here on in on the Island can not be laid upon the shoulders of those of the past but on ours alone. Does it ever occure to you that there are many of those who are a mixture of both Nations who would like to see a peaceful resolution just as much I am sure there are those who are simply Haitians and those who are simply Dominicans who would like to see the very same hopeful delight of peace over hatred and resentful past differences? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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| #7 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:10 PM | |
Location: United States, Chicago - Future Dominican Resident Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2464 Posts: 51 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: cibaeño75 previously said: If you are so ready to disagree before any discussion begins that indicates that you already have preconceived notions that you will not deviate from, which means you are not engaging in this discussion to learn but to pontificate. A conversation is an exchange of ideas. Chances are, we will have different ideas; or at least different interpretations of the same ideas. The fact two people may disagree does not preclude them from having a serious conversation. Edited on 4/9/2009 3:18 PM by SabioRosa. |
Post IP: 150.176.182.2* | |
| #8 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:13 PM | |
Location: United States, New York, NY Join date: December 2007 Member #: 16 Posts: 860 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: AfroLatino [QUOTE=SabioRosa previously said: I would be willing to engage you in discussion--however, I am weary of the insults which are Does it ever occure to you that there are many of those who are a mixture of both Nations who would like to see a peaceful resolution just as much I am sure there are those who are simply Haitians and those who are simply Dominicans who would like to see the very same hopeful delight of peace over hatred and resentful past differences? That is the ultimate goal. There needs to be dialogue in order for us to understand one another and achieve peace. Haiti, is an unknown to Dominicans and the rest of the world. Quite frankly, a neighbor who is viewed as a threat. |
Post IP: 71.167.248.1* | |
| #9 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:17 PM | |
Location: United States, Chicago - Future Dominican Resident Join date: April 2009 Member #: 2464 Posts: 51 | RE: Fix Your Country first Quote: ny4life previously said: That is the ultimate goal. There needs to be dialogue in order for us to understand one another and achieve peace. Haiti, is an unknown to Dominicans and the rest of the world. Quite frankly, a neighbor who is viewed as a threat. I applaud that sentiment. Although getting there, it seems to me, will be a tall order. I get a sense there are a lot of deep-seeded suspicions on both sides. |
Post IP: 150.176.182.2* | |
| #10 - Posted 9 April 2009, 3:45 PM | |
Location: Dominican Republic, La Union Join date: July 2008 Member #: 1028 Posts: 1284 | RE: Fix Your Country first IF YOU GUYS CAN FIND A PERSON FOR THE FRENCH TO SPANISH TRANSLATION FOR THIS LETTER... Excellence Monsieur le Président Fernandez, Cher Leonel Chers amis C’est avec joie que je me retrouve, une fois de plus, dans cette maison, maintenant familière, qui m’a accueilli à plusieurs reprises et qui, aujourd’hui encore, me fait l’honneur de m’inviter à me joindre à la signature d’importants accords de coopération entre nos deux pays. Je suis aussi heureux de me retrouver en compagnie d’un ami de longue date qui sait qu’il peut compter sur moi et sur qui je sais pouvoir compter pour rechercher ensemble des réponses durables aux problèmes complexes auxquels font face nos deux pays. Excellence Monsieur le Président Fernandez Notre présence une seconde fois comme Chef d’Etat, pendant à peu près les mêmes périodes donne le sentiment que nous avons là, à portée de la main, une nouvelle opportunité pour refonder les relations entre nos deux pays. Ces relations ont présenté dans le passé des épisodes difficiles qui peuvent encore troubler la conscience collective des deux peuples. Cependant, sans perdre de vue ces difficultés et sans minimiser notre responsabilité commune pour imaginer et mettre en place des solutions appropriées, je crois qu’il est plus avisé de reconnaître le potentiel qui s’étale sous nos yeux et de prendre acte des innombrables opportunités qui peuvent résulter d’une redéfinition de la coopération entre nos deux pays. En vérité, l’addition de nos deux espaces économiques, nourris par une population de 16 millions de consommateurs, auxquels peuvent s’ajouter la population touristique flottante et la diaspora des deux pays, constitue une force économique potentielle non négligeable dans la région. Excellence Monsieur le Président Fernandez Vous et moi nous devons travailler à promouvoir un changement radical dans l’histoire des relations entre nos deux peuples, relations que nous devons refonder sur la base d’un nouveau paradigme : celui de l’interdépendance. C’est pour nous une exigence, un devoir. Un devoir envers les jeunes de nos deux pays qui représentent dans les deux cas plus de 50% de nos populations. Un devoir de dépassement du passé et de vision d’un nouveau futur pour éradiquer nos crispations et nos préjugés et combiner nos forces pour faire face aux plus grands défis communs qui menacent la stabilité de nos pays et qui se nomment la pauvreté, la drogue, la désertion scolaire, l’exclusion sociale, le VIH-Sida, les désastres naturels. Un devoir de connaissance de l’autre pour mieux le comprendre, établir la confiance dans les rapports, renforcer la solidarité et bâtir les fondements d’une nouvelle fraternité Les politiques, je l’espère, ne seront pas seuls pour affronter ces défis. C’est la mission de l’université de nous accompagner dans cette démarche, en profitant de son espace d’autonomie qu’elle détient par nature pour penser avec audace, inventer de nouveaux savoirs et de nouveaux procédés capables d’inspirer et de guider l’action du politique. C’est l’occasion pour moi de remercier les dirigeants des universités des deux pays qui ont conçu l’initiative de cet accord de coopération et qui nous interpellent aujourd’hui, à leur côté. Le mécanisme universitaire de coopération binationale envisagé à travers cet accord est appelé à jouer un rôle de premier plan dans la redéfinition de ce nouvel agenda entre les deux pays. Je mise sur ce dispositif pour faciliter le « co-apprentissage » entre nos deux peuples en agissant progressivement sur les perceptions et les connaissances à partir de la recherche et de l’expérience pratique. Je sais, cher Leonel, que tu sais que je parle en ton nom, en disant à nos universitaires que nous pouvons leur donner cette triple assurance que nous seront réceptifs à leurs analyses et aux solutions qu’ils préconiseront, que nous serons attentifs à leurs besoins pour améliorer l’accessibilité et la qualité de leur formation ainsi que la pertinence de leurs programmes de recherche, tout en étant, bien sur, scrupuleusement respectueux de leur sacro-sainte autonomie de pensée et d’action. Forts également des trois nouveaux accords interministériels signés ce soir, dans les domaines de l’éducation, de l’enseignement supérieur et de la jeunesse, nous pouvons nourrir l’espoir que nos passés seront mieux compris et que nous pourrons établir de nouvelles bases pour renforcer la compréhension mutuelle et la solidarité. Nous pourrons mieux mettre en commun nos efforts afin de créer de nouvelles opportunités socio-péconomiques pour nos jeunes et ainsi combattre la délinquance juvénile. L’éducation sera notre arme de destruction massive contre la drogue et le crime organisé. Monsieur le Président, Mesdames, Messieurs Je ne voudrais pas terminer mon propos sans rendre un hommage à l’effort de Aide et Action International dans la promotion de ce dialogue entre nos deux pays. Je suis convaincu que les autres partenaires de la coopération ne manqueront pas de soutenir ce projet universitaire qui fait le lien entre décideurs, praticiens, experts et populations. A la veille de la remise en marche de la Commission Mixte Binationale, cela me semble être une bonne approche pour que nos futurs projets binationaux et transfrontaliers aient l’impact souhaité en vue d’un développement socio-économique harmonieux entre nos deux peuples. Pour le bonheur des Dominicains et des Haïtiens ! Je vous remercie. René Préval ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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