the cardinal 's reaction doesn't surprise myself and the world , because everybody is aware of his racism , which means he lost his vocation . In fact Trujillo was the mastermind of the 1937 massacre but he did not do by himself, civilians and militarys dominicans took part of it . The world is living a moment of perdon for all these events , such as germany , the indians in the usa etc... So the cardinal isn't familiar with perdon NO DO

If you are so anxious to see us beg for pardon for something a tyrant did, mrs. Claudy, then you haitians need to beg us our pardon for the crimes your oh so loved father of the country, Jean Jacques Dessalines, committed against the dominican civilians in the towns of Santiago, Moca, La Vega and San Francisco during his invasion of our territory in 1805. Crimes which I'm sure were worse than anything Trujillo ever did to you, considering the kind of brutal warfare your people did at that time.

(cont..) And there are facts that you haitians always need to consider every time you're wanting reparations from us, mrs. Claudy, and that is that every act of warfare that we have committed against you have been in self-defense, because we've always had to make defensive warfare to stop your territorial ambitions, and that at the time (1937) we had already lost to you original borderline stipulated in the Aranjuez treaty, because of your policy of colonization of other people's land.

(cont...) and lastly, the DR have NEVER invaded Haiti nor had any ambitions of conquest, mrs. Claudy, things that, unfortunately, can't be said on account with the haitian state attitude with respect to the DR. We, mrs. Claudy, have been on the receiving end of the Dessalinian policy of "Koupe tet, boule kay" which in good english means burn, rape and kill, not the other way around, and the wounds inflicted by that unscrupulous policy have yet to heal. Pardon, mrs. Claudy, have to go both ways.

Our beloved Cardinal is way off base on this one. Trujillo did not act alone. Much like Hitler, Trujillo had many Dominicans that supported/aided him in his efforts. Perhaps the Cradinal should stay out of politics and stick with Spritual Matters only. What ever happened to the Churches stance on the Yuma orphanage scandle a few years ago???

TO CLAUDY:
THE CARDINAL IS WELL AWARED OF THE HAITIANS MASSACRE BY TRUJILLO'S HENCHMEN. SEEMS TO ME
YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH PAPA DOC DUVALIER'S
MASSACRE IN HAITI. ARE YOU GOING TO BLAME ALL HAITIANS FOR THOSE EXECUTIONS?
WHAT I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS BEFORE THE UN CAME TO EXIST,DID NOT PROSECUTE TRUJILLO ALONG WITH THE GERMANS AT NEUREMBERG?
I SUSPECT WHY. WHILE TRUJILLO WAS KILLING HAITIANS HE WAS ALSO SAVING JEWS. THE NEURMBERG TRIAL WAS
GERMANS KILLING JE

The Cardenal is loosing track.I think he should speak out more defending, the poor and the real problems of the Country such:
The social disparity,the increasing of fake religions,the poverty,
the abuse of power,the corruption,the luck of Justice,the low wages,the increasing of prostitution due to the Misery,the Salavery..Remember the Son of God,always was in the side of the poor.You are loosing some many beliviers...Why?
Find out for yourself Eminence, before is to late

Here here, claudy!

Well said. The thing of the matter is, why wouldn't we apologize for such an atrocity? What do we lose for admitting our wrong doing? If anything, it could help bridge some of the mis-information on both sides. But since the elite benefit from the status quo, they guard against any action that can upset their priviliged position.

This is revisionism at its worst. It is also classic Caribbean culture to never accept responsibility when you can shift the blame to someone else. It reminds me of when Hipólito blamed the economic disaster of his administration on Osama Bin Laden. The Cardinal should be ashamed of himself for perpetuating historical inaccuracies. This only makes it possible for something similar to occur in the future. Shame!

Claudy, don't come here whining about racisms,22-year of Haitian occupation described by historian as cruel and barbarous are not going to go away any time some, Haitian troops abusing Dominican out of anger because of there lighter-skinned, prohibiting Catholicism because it was to close to Spain. Mr. Claudy, this is part of our history and is taught at first grade and I’m sorry to tell you that we will never forget (More to follow)

It is with disgust that I read the Cardinal Lopez's negation of the 1937 Haitian massacre. This is a lame excuse and malicious argument on the the part of the Cardinal. Every decent/ informed person knows too well that this argument was answered at the Nuremberg trial. REMEMBER, it was not me, but Hitler. No one bought it at the time, and Haitians will not buy this lame national escapism from justice. The collective conscience of the Dominican people must accept responsibility.

To mr. Sarrazin:

What about the dominican civilians killed, raped or burned in every haitian military invasion against the DR? Aren't tehy human to you? The fact that the crimes and atrocities that I'm talking about happened on the XIX century, it can't deny the fact that the DR need an apology for those crimes, too. As I said earlier, pardon needs to go both ways if the healing process is really to be started. (cont...)

(cont...) Or, are you implying, mr. Sarrazin, that the past crimes commited by haitians in dominican soil are bound to enjoy the mantle of impunity just because they're the current underdog of the drama? If it's so, the I have the duty as a dominican to tell you that you're commiting an act of grave injustice against the DR. Didn't you know that there was a time when the haitians were the powerful country on the island and the DR was the underdog?

We should look forward.We cannt travel to the pass.This is a mistake, the past i to learn from it.no to bring hate and more hate to the world is enough already.
Eminenece, you are completely wrong.Speak about social problems, because our "Society "is falling a part.
This is what you have to do.

No apology should be offered until Haiti's church agree to do the same for crimes committed against the DR!!!

Stop the discrimination against dominicans. Stop fomenting the hate . Promote the development in Haiti and dedicate the intellectual minds to it. Stop wasting time.....

Great Dialogue. Just a quick note. WHy is it everytime that an issue like this is brought up, we justify ourselves by saying "well don't look at our racism without admitting to yours" or "Well we killed, but so did you". Two wrongs don't make a right, and perhaps we can take the first step to reconciliation... Some would have us constantly fighting and divided, but why not TRY SOMETHING NEW and reject the politics of FEAR and MISINFORMATION. Lets adopt a politics/diplomacy based on HUMAN RIGH

In accordance with my democratic ideals, I believe he needs to stay away from politics and be humble and caring towards the poor and the disenfranchised. What happened in 1937 was a horrible crime, and as a Dominican and a good Christian I’m wiling to say I’m sorry. While I believe that the massacre in Moca in 1805 was equal or worst than what happened in 1937(I don‘t believe the size of the massacre, just look at population stats for the time), (cont)

,that’s up to our Haitian‘s bothers, to grow up and admit their countries mistakes(and stop blaming Dominicans for everything). I’m not a 3 year old I can say sorry first. While I can admit my countries mistakes,when will Haitians stop looking for apologies and be more responsible.They forget that Cuba massively and indiscriminately expelled them leading to a massive population surge on the Dominican side Border that led to the massacre; will they ask for an apology from them ?.cont

What about France and the massive burden thrust upon a young Haiti in the way of tribute in order to remain independent. Will they ask for an apology, my point is that Haitian’s need to look toward the present forget about the wrongs of the past or the future will be as bleak as or then today.

I don't get why you guys (Dominicans) hate Haitians so much?

Not only that, mr. Aquino, but the numbers of haitians expelled by the cubans in 1934 were about 85,000, a huge number at the time, considering that Haiti's population at the time was about 3,000,000 people. Apparently, mr. Aquino, the DR is the only country on the Caribbean who hasn't the right to expel haitians massively; that only Cuba, Jamaica, the Turks and Caycos and the French and British Antilles have the right, even though the DR is the one carrying the biggest burden of them.

Hector, that’s 22 years of occupation sounds like a good reason for you, how about companies and battalions of Haitian army running around without supervision, killing raping and steeling everything on site, we didn’t invade them they invade us and up to today there are some (90%) still carrying ill feeling towards my country, as a matter of facts I believe most Dominican (90%) don’t hate our neighbors, the hate is coming from them towards us.

Enriquillo, the D.R should repatriate at least half the illegal Haitian’s.But it should be done in a humane fashion not periodic raids and abuses that’s are committed today we should take the high road Haitians and their allies need to stop the P.R war they have unleashed internationally and invest all their time and effort to bring Haiti out of the darkness its in today.THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACE JUST IS ABOUT $$$$$$$ Fanduls are Billionaires they are the one profiting.

Hector, that’s a complicated question it has to do with certain segments of the population living in the past and not looking towards the future with fear playing a part . I wouldn’t say that Dominicans hate Haitians but can say that there is definitely some animosity on both sides deep rooted in their psyche. When is the Haitian Ex-pat populace going to provide some expertise in helping Haiti and stop trying to discredit Dominicans.

Comparing Dessalines to Trujillo is like comparing George Washington to George W. Bush.

Dessalines was no saint, however, he did not kill Dominicans. The eastern side was Spanish territory. Nonetheless, there's no excuse.

Trujillo was a Head of State and therefore had a responsibility to govern and implement rules. He could have simply deported the Haitians.

T Rafael: How many haitians do you know to make a claim that they hate dominicans? We are not OBSESSED withthe DR.

Point of clarification, Haiti did not invade the DR, b/c back then there was DR. The Haitians liberated the eatern part of the island from the Spanish. With that said, there were attrocities committed during the occupation and after, by both Haitians and DOminicans. But average people are not to blame, it's leasders who foster this animosity and TWIST history to stoke the flames.

We shuold not accept nationalist rhetoric, we should extend a brotherly hand and cooperate with Haitians.

(cont'd) People want to keep animosity alive for their own reasons.
Contrary to what many believe, ALL haitians are not POOR and many care less about what's goes on in the DR.

Brainwashing is a MUTHA because many walk around with Hatred and have no idea why.

Leave all that crap in the past where it belongs and stop perpetuating DIVISION and HATRED because one day, you can be on the receiving end.

Mr. FC, tell that to the descendants of the survivors of the massacre, descendants which still live on Santiago and Moca. Ask them about it. I did that, and to my surprise, the wounds are still fresh. Even though at that time the DR was still a spanish colony, the families that lived there, mr. FC, would be the core of the future dominican nation. (cont...)

(cont.), mr. Gonzalez-Acosta, I didn't know that your concept of liberation meant killing, raping, butchering and burning innocent civilians and their homes. And if I may make a correction, only Dessalines forces commited atrocities on that occupation, the survivors hid themselves on St. Domingo city awaiting french reinforcements to relieve the city, the rest of them were taken to Haiti, the men to work as field slaves in the construction of Christophe citadelle, although some of them escaped.

(cont.) the women to be used as concubines by Dessalines and Christophe's soldiery. As I told mr. FC, you only need to ask the opinion of a traditional mocano or santiaguero, mr. Gonzalez-Acosta, you'll find that they still remember those people. Not even the priest were spared, I heard from them that the man who was back then the bishop of Santiago, Antonio Vasquez, was burned alive on his altar, is that the way to conduct the liberation of a territory, mr. Gonzalez?

If anyone wants to know the details about the siege of St. Domingo and the overall campaign (if it can be called such to what was life and death struggle, in which one nation was actually looking the possiblity of extinction in the face) you only need to look the memoirs of the french officer Lemmonier Delafosse "Second campaign of St. Domingo" which covers the period of Haiti's independence to the expulsion of the french by Juan Sanchez Ramirez in 1809. Believe me, it's not a pretty tale.

If everyone continued to HARP on historical wrongdoings, no ONE group would get along.

Stop making excuses and carry your HATRED proudly, you hypocrites.

"Liberation" always involves atrocities. Look at the liberation of Iraq, Texas, Latin America, Cuba, South Africa, you name it! I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but "liberation" is certainly not nice... The dominant view, which is written by the victors, focuses on a biased portrayal of the events to justify the 'new' regime. The "other" is always vilify by elites in order to create a state of crisis to justify power relations, and that is exactly what is happening with the Haitian-DR c

Not trying to belittle the suffering of the victims or their decendents, but SPECIALLY victims see things through a murky glass. Human beings are not logical, their are sentimental. Even if you present a "white flag", someone who wants to fight sees a "red flag".

What is the harm in questioning history? What is the hard of taking a different approach and embrace our Haitian brothers? What is there to lose but our self-hatred? The only ones who may lose from change, are those in power...

Deport all of the Haitians. Only then the poor and struggling working class in DR can truly see the ills of their society.

With Haitians gone, there's no one to blame, no unwanted foreigner to profit from.

The blame would be placed where it belongs. Surely the "powers that be" don't want that.

Sometimes when I read comments from some Dominicans, I find it amusing. You should hear what some people say about your stock.

Are they right or have they been hit by the same "hate bug"?

I'm not for illegal immigration, but the SUCCESS or FAILURE of a country is determined by its GOVERNANCE.

It's not hipocrisy, mr. FC, it's the sensible thing to do. As I said earlier, if pardon and understanding really wants to be reached by the two countries, both need to ask pardon from each other. I'm not the only one who says this, even historians that are friendly with the haitian's plight, like Bernardo Vega, supports my POV. The process can not be completed if only one of the parties is forced to beg it, while the other is being proud with its past crimes.

mr. Gonzalez, for your information, the dominican independence process was not only the act of one party, it was an act of an entire nation that wanted to live its life as it pleased and not subjected to the whims of foreign overlords. If that process would have been only a conspiracy by the privileged it would have been doomed from the start. And also, it was the people of colour which fought more fiercely for independence. Haven't you heard about the feats of arms of Antonio Duverge?

To all those questioning Dominican's attitude towards Haitians, I can honestly tell you that most Dominicans could of cared less for better or worse. Any person with 1/2 brain would think Haitians and their defenders would use this to their advantage and continue to go in and work in the DR peacefully - but no, they launch an anti-Dominican campaign around the world. They want to cry and hopefully it won't be long before we get a government that will really give them something to cry about.

the haitian are not our brother so stop spreding that lies we dominican no better. and we dont have to apolagy for nothing on the contrary we need 5 or 8 1937 so we stop once and for alway the damn haitian intrution into our terretory. haitian stay in their side no trouble,but if they keep harrassing us soon not to far we will have our final round.

IF THE HAITIAN WANT WAR WE SHALL GIVE ONE.

To Carlos: I can see that you represent the Dominicans well.

Maybe, we "americans" should flush out people in this country who are so busy doing other things that they do not take the time to master the ENGLISH language.

Next time you see a Haitian where you live, let him know how you really feel , you COWARD.

This ain't 1937!!!

Many Dominicans alive today werent alive when this happened so they bare no guilt, but they should do an auto-examen and see how they feel about haitians now. theres still alot of racism in the DR, many doms have a great air of superiority that is sickening

In response of Rodriguez saying about dominicans shouldn't have any guilt in haitian slaying years ago well I think that he's speaking too much out of ego. Yes, Trujilo ordered the massacre but it was the dominican's own people, parents and neighbors who executed the brutal killings so that makes them part responsible. The germans asked forgiveness for miliions killed why shouldn't the dominicans do it for 20,000?
If asking pardon is a hard for a cardinal then he's in the wrong religion

The Cardinal Rules!
I dub thee Pontifex Maximus Santus Dominucus The 1st.

I think a lot of the people are missing the point. Though the Cardinal shouldn't interfere or be so openly opinionated about this political/diplomatic issue, he is entitled as a human being to express what he believes is correct. Just because he is a member of the Catholic Clergy it doesn't mean that he is not human and has no right to express his thoughts. Yes, there is a lot of unfinished business between the haitians and the dominicans. I myself am a descendant of Dominican parent, and although I am an American Citizen, I lived in the Dominican Republic for over 10 years of my life and learned both versions of the story. I lived 7 out of those 10 years with a haitian as part of my family, and she is currently still living in my mother's house, not as a maid or any service member, but as family. Historical Misinterpretation and prejudice does not lead to solutions. Objectivity does. Trujillo was good at what he did, just as was Dessalines. They both controlled a nation to its worse.

Apologies from the current dominican citizens for the 1937 massacre shouln't be needed to resolve peace between these nations. As well as apologies for the 22 year-old invasion of the Dominican Republic by the haitian government are not needed to resolve the peace betwen these nations. These were periods of time in which we, the people of the present had no action in, and therefore shouldn't feel guilty whatsoever for what others did in the past long before we even existed. History is taught to avoid commiting the same mistakes twice, not to account for future diplomatic apologies. JUST LET IT GO. It happened, both things happened, now it's time to move on. Humans are both cruel and kind, wether they're black, white, domican, cuban, or whatever ... Humans are humans and make mistakes. Get over it.

When are Dominicans going to take to heart that the truth is what really matters.
Forget about what the Haitians did, that is their burden to carry.

What is important here is for Dominicans as a nation admit and understand the relationship between the two countries.

Anyone here that denies the poor treatment of Haitians by Dominicans is lying through their teeth.
I don't mean in 1937, I mean right now, today.

Before Trujillo, the D.R. had something that has been lost after Trujillo, "National Pride".

To have National Pride we have to face the reality of our history. The D.R. has a lot of work to do as a nation. Stop engaging in pointless racist orgies like this ridiculous discussion.

Do we owe Haiti an apology? YES.

Si cara#o digan la verdad, no sean comemierd$#s con diarrea de la boca.
Parecen un monton de chiquelos hablando baba.

Lo primero que deberian hacer es dejar de ponerle atencion a la Iglesia Catolica, La Iglesia es una organisacion abusiva, racista,