Hey, it's good news to me...similar to the black American vote, Latino votes (whether black Latino, white Latino or other) are not pigeonholed for one candidate and/or one party.

It's also good to mention that Haile Rivera is originally from San Jose de Ocoa, DR. Don't know him all that much, but he seems like a nice guy.

Whao.
I am still skeptic.

@ NYCDR

Skeptic of??

A black man for president in the USA.

@ NYCDR

whether one says skeptical or says doubtful...one thing is for sure...what we're witnessing is real, the know-nothings every other night on the newsstations...those talking pundits...swallow harder and harder each passing day (LMAO). And I LOVVVE it

Nothing is a given, but I like the position he's in right now....

Escorpion_negro, I didnt say I am not happy to see this. This definitely will be a historical moment, where a mix (considered black anyways) will be elected president of the USA.

: )

Hilary Clinton will win for sure. Just because Obama won a few states, that doesnt mean he will win. We still have the rest of The United States, and i'm cheering for Hilary.

Good for you wents22! I am not telling you my vote,but at the same time
I am doubtful that he will win nation wide.
I am happy that Obama is winning, at the same time I am wondering if Hillary doesnt win and Obama goes head to head with a republican, can Obama win? if not, we will have another 4 years of Republican reign.
:(

NYCDR...when George Bush re-ran for president...I doubted he would win...but mainly bc I'm in NY...I forgot about how the south thinks (no offense to southerners). And so he won...imagine now a republican WASP running w/ a black guy...I doubt he'd make it though it would be nice to see; not so much that he's black, but he's actually got interesting views.

[2/2]

I believe that Obama can take on Romney (no doubt Romney will be the nominee) It will be interesting to see this match... but at the same time I dont want to completely disregard the old-school republicans... they might go for McCain

I personally dont like any of the candidates running on either side of the aisle, guess we are left with choosing the lesser evil ... good luck tomorrow in florida and on super-tues..

[1/2]
This whole campaign is too focused on party (or race) affiliation , voters need to stick to the issues at hand and elect the best person for the job.

As you know, the Kennedys are putting some money behind Obama, they are backing him for president!!. Talk about perfect timing, one day before Super-Tuesday, and what about Sen. Kennedy's speech .. wow! the man spoke from his heart for over 30 minutes, and what a speech it was.

Meanwhile, the classless Clintons seem to be backing off of Obama, 'bout time they showed some respect..(i tell ya, if Obama can survive the Clints aint no Rep going to stop him) These people (the clints) will do just about anything to have their way, which is why I'm not voting for Hillary -she's not in this race for the people or the country for that matter, but rather for their personal gains. In my opinion Hillary represents more of the same old special-interest tired politics.

Good for you NYCDR, i dont need to know. As i said before, Obama will not win. I think The United States is ready for a female president, as we will soon see.

@ rodrigito

es verdad! I agree...you said basically what I would say....and regarding on SOME folks (both some candidates and their fans-LOL)...as I always say....RACE MATTERS

Every damn campaign since whenever is formed and shaped in some way because of race...some don't want to admit it, bu it is what it is.....

MOST whites historially, will vote white if there's a QUALIFIED candidate of color on the ledger.

I would remind all of you of the fact that "it ain't over til the fat lady sings". That comes from the era of Kate Smith when she was usualy the one invided to sing "The Stat Bangled Banner" at the Presidential innaugerations of the 30'sand 40's (before television, that is).
It still holds true today.
The nation doesn't know really who won until the Electoral College votes and that is some time after the final election tallies are in. In otherwords, it is the Electors who, following their individual State elections, have the final say in the matter. They have only over-ridden State tallies ONE time in all US History where their votes weren't in compliance with the popular vote, and that was a fluke currently guarded against. The electors are now required to reflect the popular vote of their individual states. That is, unless I read the existing instructions incorrectly.
Google "Electoral College" to verify my assertions. I'm tied up with other things right now.

TB

@ TB

you're preaching to the choir...in these convos, the EC means nothing...we're simply exchanging our feelings, thoughts and ideas...i for one, know it bothers some people when these convos take place, but that's the way it is....and what it's all about...enjoying the moment....

regarding the fat lady...she really can take a hike....

LMAO

How about along the "Appalachian Trail"?
That's really a scenic wonder in the Summer and early Fall.

TB

@ TB

LMAO ;-)

Great to see that both are pushing more people to be interested in following politics, especially Obama. The outcome overall for the U.S. people looks promising if either is placed and interned elected to office. There will be a trickle down effect to the people of the D.R.Increasing the chance of greater prosperity in the D.R.

This is great, this guy is simply incredible. I have not posted in while since guest what? I have been on conference in washington D.C. for the past week. It is a nice little break from work anyways and a good chance to get away fron NYC with the wife and kid as well. I was in the surroundings of the American University today to see if I get a glance, but nothing. Maybe next time. Obama will forever chnage how we vote and how we view each othoer, he got my vote from the speech at the convention. Please join this organization, I am planning to join myself and lets help make history all together, the way it should be done.

@ dagtan

well said!

^5

Yeap!.. eloquently put... Obama is a man of the people.. He also brings new hope to politics in general. Politicians view Obama as a man who brings people up in contrast with Hillary who is all about tearing people down and "swift vote" tactics.. which only deviates from the task at hand (from a voter stand-point). The impromptu endorsement by the Ed Kennedy (2nd most senior member of senate, infamous for parking his car in the Chapaquitic yrs ago.. ) helps greatly, especially with the Latino vote. One thing I have noticed about Obamas speeches lately, although very moving and motivating, they are somewhat empty - if you listen closely...

I'm glad to see the public support from a Dominican organization. It may help him to win primaries in the NE with heavy latino populations.

Should Obama win the nomination for the Democratic party, I believe he can win the Presidency.

It is time for a new direction in this country. Perhaps after the mess Bush and his administration made, the country is ready to move forward.

Me hope so!

CJ

Rodrigito, you are correct about the hollowness in Obama's speeches. They are simply more inspirational than data and task driven. I believe that his advisers knows this and will eventually guide him to start throwing more substance in his speeches. As you have been able to notice, Obama is able to chnage direction quickly and is able to send a clear message. At this point he does not need to have speeches full of data, all we need is inspiration and the desire to participate.

agree... despite that , he has my vote. which orig belonged to "The Truth", Dr No! - Ron Paul . but he does not have a chance..

Rodrigito,
I would not say he doesn't have a chance just yet -- let's see how the fat ladie's song turns out by the time this is all over.

the inspirational aspect of this issue is that a dominican seems to be one of the only hispanics willing to side with a black candidate, or even with the party which represents the interests of minorities. hispanics in the united states vote against their own interests in order to side with white candidates. the cubans all vote republican, but we know why; firstly, they are still mad at JFK for the botched bay of pigs invasion, and secondly, they are basically the remnants of that virulently racist group that fled the island when castro came to power. other hispanic groups want to become white, and so they distance themselves from black candidates and issues. hilary clinton can count on the support of the hispanics in california, because they will not support a black candidate; the demographic history of voting is a matter of public record, and hispanics , who suffer from the same problems that blacks endure in america, would rather cut their noses off to spite their faces. they would

rather continue without any robust representation of their concerns than see a black representative who is willing to fight in their behalf. it is the sad reality of minority politics in the usa. if this was not the case, the republicans would not have controlled the white house for lo this many years!

Dreadlocks, I think you are making this wayyy to much of a racial issue. People should not vote for him simply bc he's black. Mayor Dinkins of NY was the only black mayor in the city and ppl thought he would make a difference. He didn't really do much of anything. I'm sure Obama would not want to win simply bc of his DNA makeup. Many ppl will not vote for him simply bc of what he is but voting for him simply bc of what he is does not make u any different from those ppl. We are talking about a president of the US, not a beauty pageant that doesn't really make a difference to the country/world.

As for dominicans, most that I know are voting for Hillary and it's not bc she's white; it's bc they know her more and bc she has a very close relationship with the DR. The Clintons are good friends with LF, Oscar de la Renta and they travel often to DR; one may dare say it's their favorite vacation spot. This reason alone is not enough to vote for them, but it doesn't hurt.

Dread, among white circle this is called the "disease of condition" White people know that hispanics have been condioned from generation to generation to think that white is better. BTW. Clinton has a huge support among the Dominican population, this is the person doing such thing and notice, it is in the Bronx, because in Manhattan everyone is with Clinton. Whether we like it or not, we have made to believe that white is better, at least our parents, who often wer worried that their son or daughter would marry someone darker or with bad hair. I am sure that many of you have heard this common phrase specially among Dominican "tiene que refinar la raza" what do you think that means, to go darker or lighter, to go with bad hair or straight hair, you answer it. We are conditioned not to like how we look like and the dominant group makes sure that we continue to behave that way. I am sure that Obama will do well, but not among Hispanics. The main difference between, cont...

White people perception of Black and Hispanics perception of Black, is that White people know that it is wrong to discriminate base on skin color, but still do it. While Hispanics, discriminate base on the color of skin because they believe that it is inferior and do not consider it to be evil or wrong, simply the normal and right to do.

Dagtan, you make my life easy. when you make a posting such as you just did, i dont have to respond to Mayimbe. i enjoy my exchanges with him, but i am not making way too much of the racial issue: in this case, RACE is the issue!!!

Whao.
Dagtan you said a mouth full, the fact that these clique still exist.
You missed the best one"piensa como los blancos.' para que no hagas las cosas 2 veces.
:(
it is sad that we live in a society that among our own group we discriminate one another based on hair texture and skin color.
(Los blancos lo que si tienen es la diplomacia de no decirtelo en la cara pues las demandas y el escandalo que se arma no es chiquita, mientras el hispano ni esa prudencia tiene).
I hope you all understand that this is an old euro-brainwash and a distraction to what really matters.
What you do in Life and what you contribute to the world!!! which is dictated by you and you alone...

I am simply talking about the truth that many Dominicans and people of other decents are afraid to talk about or admit it. I am blessed to have very close White friends that are open with me about racism and have really educated me as to how they think of us and how they realize how much easier it is for them to create a favorable position when dealing with Hispanics just because they are white. The things they tell is incredible and it has helped me understand better why we are conditioned that way and the effects that it has in our self esteem and ability to take risks. When I attended college at St Johns a group from my high school went there together and we stood together and still meet once in while. We use to experiment with the power of blue eyes and blond hair guys and their abilities to get Hispanics girls compared to a black and kinki haired Dominican. The data showed to us at a very early stage in our lives that even our females are conditioned to examine the, cont..

package and not the substance. This is something that those of you that are still attending colleg should look at and then make your decision. If you look at the % of hispanics females in college dating Anglo males in comparison to hispanics males it is scary. However, when they find out they are not accepted by the families of such males and that they also suffer from the illness that they used to go with the Anglo instead of the hispanic. At this particular momment they often find comfort with themselves and realize that they were mistaken and try to retify or revert back to the hunt for a future husban. Sad but true, it is like Chris Rock said, "many times we are the second choice and not the first" lol. This is a very sensitive issue and I am simply giving a little taste here, but this is not the place to wite about this, so I stop now. BTW this is base on my experience with my White friends which is the majority in my case unfortunately and fortunately.

dagtan, you make a very good point, but this is the world that we live in. This is how it was made to be. If you dont like it, get over it, life moves on.

Noooooooooooo, Wents22, it was not made to be that way, it was and it still forced into us. We have a choice to either follow it or reject it, so it is optional my friend, yes optional, no please do not say that. We can not be so conformistic, I admire you for being such a conformist, but no, no, it is a system, you do not have to take ti, just because people tell so.

dagtan my friend, you can follow it or reject it, it doesnt matter. The rules will still be the same. We are living in a country that educates ethnic groups differently. Besides, how would you feel if a foreigner comes to your country and takes over? my whole point about the article, obama will not win. somethings were just meant to be.

We'll see, if he wins we'll have a better and more respected U.S. and if he does not win, we'll go back to square one on the race issue in the U.S.

First of all, if your theory about dominicans not voting for Obama were correct, Leonel Fernandez would not be president of the DR nor would he have the overwhelming support he has in NY. Second, if Obama wins the primary, do you really think hispanics would vote republican (w/ the exception of cubans)?? I hiiighly doubt it. All dominicans I know that can vote and want to vote are either voting for Hillary or Obama (mostly Hillary but Obama is their second choice). Thirdly, just bc for many, this IS a race issue, it doesn't mean you should make it one also. Don't think just bc he's black he'll know how to help minorities progress. Your avg. minority does NOT go to the best schools in the country nor are they raised among white ppl (like Obama). I've met white ppl who would be considered a minority more than Obama is based on their circumstances.

Mayimbe, why do you think it is that most Dominicans you know are voting for Hillary, as opposed to Obama?

Dread, say it, I know you want to say, but you are very clever and want Mayimbe to say it, because you know that Mayimbe is a dreamer and simply do not want to admit the truth. Dread, I like how you use sublimical ways to have people admit their fears and admit that in the end, they actually agree with people like us. Mayimbe, would never admit as to why his Dominicans friends or the majority of Dominicans will be voting for Hillary instead of Obama. Eventhough, Obama has a proven record in helping hispanics gain a strong position within the popualtion in Chicago, while Hillary has not done anything for hispanics in NYC. I have never seen her fighting to end the placement of unqualified teachers in classrooms that are mostly populated by hispanics, while Obama icnreased funding for schools that were serving minorities and even proposed increase payment for teachers and merit pay to those that closed the gap between white students and hispanics students.

@ dagtan AND NYCDR

some men will get their boxers in a bunch (and they will get over it)...some women will get their panties in a bunch (and they will get over it)...some whites will get tight (they will get over it) and some Latinos/Latinas (black, white and otherwise) will be in denial...but.....

what you said is TRUE. No one is saying all Latinos/Latinas think/feel/are this way.

I mean really...the whole 'hair'/'black hair' issue with many Dominican women, the issue of segregating BLACKS from a nightclub in Santiago in 2007, the absence of darker hued (and certainly qualified) people up the political ladder in virtually ALL Spanish speaking countries, to even those damn Novelas on television (most times when you see a dark complected person on one, what's their role?)

....bottom line...RACE/COLOR ALWAYS MATTERS. And unless and until progressive people of ALL races STOP this shhh...the beat will continue.

Escorpion_Negro,
Does it make right! We can complain forever about the ignorance of the prior generations. We can continue the clique and allow others to define what is smart, what is stupid, who is the right person, who is the wrong for a given job based on looks. We can continue to let others control our destiny.

Or we can take control and let ourselves be defined by whatever we like to be identified by.

My clique is "Plan your life, because you are not going to like what others have planned for you!"

Escorpion_Negro,

What is a shocker is what you stated about Santiago in 2007 of all places where a lot of these dominicans are of tan complexion to the point that they look of indian descent.
The town and even the entire country would allow only whites to attend a disco?
Dude, its an island that the average temp is 80F all year round!
Where are the people who find this unjust, racist and deplorable to the moral of its people?

Please tell me this has a happy ending? Please tell me that the place out of business!
Awaiting for more info.
NYCDR

@ NYCDR...my lady...who is from Santiago, had told me her sister mentioned a club (different one) where there were whispers of racial bias. However, the following link is the main story I read this past summer: http://www.nypost.com/seven/08082....rk_secret_tempo_julio_tavarez.htm

NYCDR, unfortunately there is no happy ending, because those "color canela" or "indiecita/to" as we call them in DR, think of themselves as white. The Dominican people is heavely confused people and simply refuse to admit that there is only either blakc or white and not in between. I am sure that you hava come across Dominicans that would simply deny that they are black even if they look in the mirror everyday and see it. Once again we are a confused people, and this confusion is atributed to the lack of education. As I stated before, racism is a different animal in whotes and hispanics. For whites racism has become more related to economics or the economic position of such person. As you have been able to notice, alot of white women marry black men in America, but there is always a common denominator in the equation. This denominator is education, the black men is often a professional who has rise above the race as result of education. Black profesionals are aceptable, cont..

in white houses. Moreover, they gain the respect of white people, because white people as racist as they could be, still recognize the academic superiority of the other person. In the American society atleast within the "Anglo" you are not judge for what you have, but for what you know and your potential to earn future economic security. This is preciscely the reason why "Anglo" often ask what do you do when they meet, instead of saying to the next person next to tthem, that guy drives a BMW. Now, racism among hispanics, but more specific to Dominican racism, since my expertise is far more extensive in this area. In the DR, an educated black person does not enjoy any different treatment from the one that does not know how to read. A white dominican farmer or "campesino" that is iliterate and had nver used a pen in their lives feels more superior than a black Doctor, this is how extensive it is. Whites know that racism is evil, but still practice it largely to protect, cont..

their advantageuos position within the American social strata, while racism in the DR is used to put and keep people down. Neither do Dominicans see the evilness of racism, for Dominicans racism and the fact that black is ugly and less is part of life and we must accept it as such. It is as if it was established by GOD that this is the way that it was mean to be, so there is nothing wrong in rejecting a person based on their color of skin. In terms of Dominican women, those that are light skinned and have straight hair that marry a black dominican, the family automatically believes that she has the upper hand simply because she decided to do favor to the black dominican by refining his race. What a joke, but true, the women family will never understand why that men is the head of the house, because after all he is black and she is white, so she can simply dictate to the black men. There are a lot of cases, in which the families are extremely nervous about pregnancies, cont..

not because of the health risks involved in the process of a pregnacy, but because they fear kinki hair or overly dark skinned. Have you ever heard the stories about Dominicans asking after a birth whether the bay has good hair or whether the baby is white even before asking about health and name. If you look closely at the Dominican racial confusion, it is limiting to their sucess here in the U.S. Specially for those that considered themselves white in the DR and migrate to the U.S. and all of a suden find out that they are actually black. Now add that to culture shock, language barrier and of course the lower academic ability and these are the perfect recipies for a failing person or just another statistic.

@ dagtan

LOL...brotha, don't GET me started on the absurb FOOLISHNESS that some engage in when it comes to black hair....

::shaking my head::

Written by: dagtan, 31 Jan 2008 10:52 PM
From: United States
not because of the health risks involved in the process of a pregnacy, but because they fear kinki hair or overly dark skinned. Have you ever heard the stories about Dominicans asking after a birth whether the bay has good hair or whether the baby is white even before asking about health and name.

Dagtan says: Dominican people is heavely confused people and simply refuse to admit that there is only either blakc or white and not in between.

What are you saying that a mixed person has to choose; has to deny one and admit to the other? r u talking about the foolish one drop rule? Just bc in the US it seems like you have to choose btwn the two, doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that this is how it should be all over the world.

As for the politics...as I said b4, just bc for many, "race matters," does not make it right for anyone to choose Obama over anyone just bc he's mixed. The fact that anyone would do that here does not make you any better than those ppl who would not vote for him for that very reason.

@ El_Mayimbe

Just sticking to your basic premise here, I totally agree with you.....

Written by: El_Mayimbe, 31 Jan 2008 11:11 PM
From: United States

"As for the politics...as I said b4, just bc for many, "race matters," does not make it right for anyone to choose Obama over anyone just bc he's mixed. The fact that anyone would do that here does not make you any better than those ppl who would not vote for him for that very reason. "

Yes, Mayimbe, that is preciscely what I wanted to establish that it should not be about race, but merit. If you watched the debate last night, it is clear that Obama is the better person president. The guy is clean and has not baggage to carry with him. Also, he comes across as very hones and intelligent, a rare combination in modern day politicians. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama is currently the best politician in the U.S., but because of the ignorance of race, many people will simply not vote for him without giving him a chance to show them his qualities. Mayimbe, it will be just like it happened to us with Pena Gomez, we missed the opportunity to exploy our best politician of the 20th century, just because Dominicans did not want a blakc person in power. Moreover, I simply do not talk about skin color to determine race in a person, and if you know any science you clearly understand that inn a mixed person the African gene is always the strongest by default, cont..

that is the reason why in the U.S. a mixed person, like Obama will often consider themselves Black, since gentically their African Gene is stronger and plays a more intrical role in the physiological development of such person. Finally, yes we are confused about who we are and the fear of finding out that we actually have African genes in our genetic code scares the hell out of many if not most Dominicans.

@ dagtan:

LMAO...not only in the Dominican, but basically all Spanish speaking countries...

the term "...a little dirt behind the ears..." after all, is not said without reason.


Written by: dagtan, 1 Feb 2008 8:42 AM
From: United States
that is the reason why in the U.S. a mixed person, like Obama will often consider themselves Black, since gentically their African Gene is stronger and plays a more intrical role in the physiological development of such person. Finally, yes we are confused about who we are and the fear of finding out that we actually have African genes in our genetic code scares the hell out of many if not most Dominicans

"that is the reason why in the U.S. a mixed person, like Obama will often consider themselves Black, since gentically their African Gene is stronger and plays a more intrical role in the physiological development "

That's the US, this does not make it right. Pena Gomez did not win but he had a great opponent (LF). Even w/ that said, Pena did win in his party's primaries (and him being the darkest), he also lost but had a high percentage; and besides this, if it were simply due to race, Leonel would not have won against Hipolito and he will not win against MVM or Amable (stats show otherwise).

Most dominicans have never heard of Obama till recently; there are few dominicans in Illinois for them to know what he has done there. They have known the Clintons since 1992 and feel a closer connection to her. And like I've asked before, if it's so much about race for dominicans, do u really think that, if Obama wins the primaries, dominicans would really vote republican bc he's black?

Mayimbe, many will not vote instead. Because Dominicans even if they are citizens for the most part have a low education level in the U.S. and their ears are trained to hear that Republicans are bad for hispanics and poor people, so they will not support a Republican. When it comes to Obama, Dominicans would be highly unconfortable voting for Obama, not because he is unknown to them, but because he represent lack of ability, skills, knowledge and smarts as black people are labelled in the DR. The will be saying things like " pero quien e loco pa votai por un prieto" of course I wrote in our dialect (cibao) just in case. Mayimbe, you lack realism and that is ok, I on the other hand might be a little skitical, but that is ok. The Clintons are already counting the hispanic vote not because they consider us smart that we are coosing the right candidate, but because they know about our conditioning and colonial conditioning.

Like I said if it were simply bc of race issues, LF would never have been president; they would always vote for the lighter skin person.

You are wrong about that. You once said yourself that most of your friends are white and maybe you are out of touch w/ how dominicans think here. Most of my friends are dominican and I know for a fact that the ones who would vote for Clinton (the others will definately vote for Obama such as Hailey Rivera--the one in the article) have Obama as a definate choice.

Escorpion Negro, Whao,dude. I lived in whity world for a while and i must agree with your statement its about economics and schooling. I also found that if you are smarter or are at a better level of education or profession than them, white people can get defensive and at times to the point of saying to you "you are black," or you forgot you are black. :) i tend to laugh in their face, at times I even have told them to stop watching tv. It get worst when you are farther from the main cities and they have never met a dominican. My point is what you see in DR is not that different from her. : )

here

NYCDR

Hey bro...I agree with you, it's just that this whole damn race, class, bullsit mentality makes me come at the topic hard and to the throat. I definitely am aware of how similar things are, down in the RD, here and many other Latin countries....

Written by: NYCDR, 1 Feb 2008 11:15 PM
From: United States
Escorpion Negro, Whao,dude. I lived in whity world for a while and i must agree with your statement its about economics and schooling. I also found that if you are smarter or are at a better level of education or profession than them, white people can get defensive and at times to the point of saying to you "you are black," or you forgot you are black. :) i tend to laugh in their face, at times I even have told them to stop watching tv. It get worst when you are farther from the main cities and they have never met a dominican. My point is what you see in DR is not that different from her. : )

most of the well thinking posters in this thread understand the extremely conflicted racial psyche of hispanics in general; not only dominicans. i remember some years ago when the manager of tv station Telemundo was confronted by Village Voice reporter Wayne Barrett regarding the absolute invisibility of people of color on spanish broadcasts. the manager, whose name escapes me at this moment, responded; " television is entertainment, and so we have to put only beautiful people on the screen". also , all my friends in Miami inform me that if you are a black man in Miami, the last thing you need is to be pulled over by a cuban police officer; you stand a far better chance of a more optimal outcome with a white cop.you see, the white man knows he is white, and does not have to prove anything. the cuban is trying to be white, and, in his mad rush to distance himself from all things black, ends up oppressing black people, thinking he is diong the white man´s bidding!!

Once again dread, you put things into perpective and in much simpler way. Hopefully, this simplicity will allow for understanding.

i guess i was right. now that the super tuesday primaries are over, look at the demographics regarding exit polling and you will see that my worst speculations have been confirmed. Barack Obama could win in states such as Utah, which probably has ten black people. he won in south dakota, which might have less! yet he could not win in the border states such as nevada and new mexico and california, because the hispanics all voted for the candidate they would most like to be like; hilary clinton. they have the same history of deprivation and discrimination as do blacks, but they would rather continue in a life of sub-optimal outcomes than support a dark skinned figure. it is pathetic, and sad.but, as i said before,the folks in utah know they are white; they have nothing to prove, so they can vote their interests. the hispanics believe that if they side with the white candidates, they themselves may one day become white!!

dreadlock. what is it with you and comments? just because hispanics vote for hilary doesnt mean they want to become white. Everyone has a right to vote for whoever, and if they dont vote for obama that does not mean is because of color. If they prefer hilary, then thats that. if you dont like it, move on with life.

calm down , wents. before you burst a blood vessel, go read a book titled " how the irish became white" . it will explain the psychographics involved within oppressed people who seek favor with their oppressors by oppressing people who are in a like position as themselves. there is copious literature on the subject, none of which i wrote. dont blame me, i am just the messenger. besides, why would an entire ethnic group "just prefer" a certain person? i can understand obama losing in new york, because hilary is one of the senators from that state, and therefore there is a familiarity. i can understand her winning in arkansas, birthplace of her beloved husband. but folks in nevada know very little about her: she is nothing more than a political abstraction to them. if the vote was evenly split, or hilary got a slight majority, i could understand. but how do you explain over 70% hispanic vote in nevada, and almost similar numbers in new mexico and california? is this not the same woman

who is regarded as the most polarizing figure in american politics, the person everyone loves to hate? and this is not an aberration: hispanics have never supported a black candidate for an office this high. just ask Jesse Jackson and David Dinkins. i dont invent this stuff, i just make observations on it. and even if i keep quiet about it, it is not going to change the reality.

@ wents and dreadlocks

as a LIFELONG resident of Brooklyn/Manhattan, NYC, I'll say this:

It's no accident that many (I know better than to say all) Latinos vote white...I mean let's be real here....light, bright or almost white is something that is embedded in many...and not always with white or light complected Latinos either. Many come from lands, countries and cultures where the higher up the political ladder you climb, the whiter things will be. It's a conditioning.

While the affected may NOT be racist outright, or show racist behavior. Bottom line: it is what it is.

When that dictator Rudy Guiliani ran against David N. Dinkins in the late 80's for the mayor's position, it was no secret and it was quite predictable, that the majority of Latinos were gonna go for Rudy. They did and two terms after, many of them sorely regret the reign of terror he cast over NYC. When you OWN get murdered by the NYPD, get picked up on questionable sweeps and get harrassed
In this case, many did....AFTER the fact.

This is not a surprise and it should not offend anyone if dread or escorpion post what they post, because it is the truth that no hispanic wants to admit to. I have posted extensively on the conditioning factor and what they white people know as "desease of condition" among hispanics. Barack Obama will go on to be president, maybe not this temr but in the future and he has a great chance this year. The hispanic community with their subconscious conditioning that white is better will never openly support a black candidate, because they have never supported a black candidate in their home country. Moreover, the majority of Hispanics have never had the experience of having a black president, therefore, they are afraid to elect one. They know Hillary as much as they know Obama, but automatically they think that Hillary will do a better job than Obama based on the precondition of inferiosity and the superiority complex that affect Hispanics and which will make them pay dearly in, cont.

the U.S. Barack will be elected on the shoulders of whites and Blacks and the Hispanics will be left out and their conditioning and prejudices will be further established by mainstream america. Let me tell you guys what happened this past weekend in the Bronx and the organization called "Dominican for Hillary" some professors at Lehman College had the nerves to assign students to attend their rally as part of a class assignment. This is rediculous and I am writing to the Lehman College president to voice my concerns about such actions. An academic institution is to educate people to make their judgement base on ability and skills, not based on favoritism and others preconditions. Hillary has not done anything for Hipanics in NYC or NYS, instead she stayed in the side lines when it came to fighting to increase funding to NYC schools because it was unpopular in upstate NY where most districts out spend NYC by about 5k per child and the hispanic population is very low. cont..

it is a shame that we can not scape those chains that where shockled on the shores of west africa in the 14 and 15th century. White people know this conditioning and they take advanatge of that. I am personally ofended that Hillary counted my vote as for her months ago. That was the main reason why I voted for Obama, he does not present that onipotence as she does when it comes hispanics. She tried to do that with whites and they rejected her overwelmengly, but we are not capable of doing that and sending a message that we vote for who ever we want and no one can count us as if we had no ability to decide on our own. I felt sorry for some of those people at the "Dominican for Hillary" rally when they were saying that Hillary will bring the necessary changes, what changes, have you seen her fighting for your right to equal education? have you seen her fighting the BOE, for placing the majority of uncertified teachers in your neighborhood? Please write to Lehman's president!

@ dagtan:

PREACH brotha!

On the real, the TRUTH does HURT some. But in the final analysis, thet ONLY way we all can move past this slave mentality, is to OPENLY acknowledge what's going on, vigorusly attack it and EDUCATE those who are ignorant to reality....

Education reform is needed in the U.S. pronto. Race should never sway a persons judgement.

To those Hispanics that voted for Hillary, be careful what you wish for. Hillary does not support licensing for illegal immigrants, instead she rather have them driving around without a lincense. Plus the fact that illegals are not allowed to have ID we will never know where they live, if they died who are they and what their occupation is. Also, Hillary wants mandatory health care for everyone and those who do not purchase it, she will simply garnish their salary to buy health insurance. I do not want my money to be garnished by no government. Now what can we do with the immigrants that do not have jobs or who work off the books, they are left out. And what about those many legal citizens as many Dominicans do, who work partially off the books, what are they going to do in order to get health insurance. Finally, if we hispanics who identify most with the African-American social issues in the U.S. decide to back away from them and in the process allow them to come closer, cont..

to the whites, then think what is going to be of the hispanic group when it finds itself alone in the American politcal arena. It is better for us to team up with the African-American community because our social issues are very similar to theirs. If we do not get together and work on common goal and the African-Americans and Whites galvanize and elect Obama, then the blacks will step back and allow the crazy conservatives to deport and make it more difficult for hispanics. For the most part Blacks are against the repression of hispanics in the U.S. and we can not afford to loose that support, specially during this economic times. I hope that people read this and understand that their vote count and they should think about our future generations and the new wave of immigrants legal and illegal that is on its way.

Escorpion_Negro, I feel your passion for the subject matter. I also had the opportunity to read all the other statements. What can we about it? the answer is education. We can start small. We must not allow and stop any relative of ours from making the derogatory comments that have become a staple in our own communities. "trabajame como los blancos" "los americanos si son inteligentes" "White babies are beautiful'. I always tell them they are no more americans than you and I, they are immigrants, and I have met many dumb white people. NO I work period, and if is done twice is not because I work like a black person but because I chose to make sure is done right. NO, all babies are beautiful no matter what color they are.

Its starts with us. What we allow, what we wont allow. I love the James Brown song. Say it loud. I am black and I am proud!
I sing my own song. I ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!!! WHAT DO EXPECT, I M DOMINICAN!!!
PS:Escorpion_Negro. I am a girl. Its all good!! : )

Dagtan, you and Escorpeon negro have said all i ever could. however, there is something i would like to share with you, which pertains to all the posters on this forum who act like race is an inconsequential issue. for the better part of a year, i posted under a race- neutral nom de plume, and that period was without incident. many a time and oft, people disagreed with my findings, but courtesy and decorum were the order of the day. we agreed to disagree in a civil fasion, and insults were non existent. then, on a whim, i decided to attempt a sociological experiment. i changed my nom de plume to one which portrayed blackness, magnified by the rastafarian image.at my advanced age i can hardly grow hair, but since no-one knows me personally from my postings, i know the image that the name conjures up. suddenly, the insults started flying from all quarters. no longer was it a matter of requesting clarification of a point, or correcting my mistakes, whenever i made them. it was a matter

of all invectives all the time. people would respond to my postings by using terms like fool and idiot, a condition which does not apply to other posters. the only other person who endures this unbridled wrath is Jabao Haitiano, and we know why: the dominican-haitian nexus is an open sore which generates a great measure of rancor. other posters would demand proof of nationality before they would stintingly grant me their permission to post. none of this happened before people surmised that i was black. look at wents for example: he rants off when i make a statement on a well known condition, dismissively asking me to shut up and go away, if not in so many words. yet he has no response for subsequent posters who validate my findings. if you triangulate the response, it appears that he is not upset because of the subject matter, but that a black man has the effrontery to join in an intellectual exercise. maybe we should all be focusing our efforts to smoking crack and destroying our

neighborhoods, and leave this intellectual stuff to the ¨right¨people. i make these observations because they are so obvious. there are no persons on this forum more articulate and educated, in my opinion, than Ed Acosta, Frank Aquino and Mr Lautaro. their prose reads like poetry. they have never been castigated for their writing style. i, on the other hand, have to almost apologise to certain people who are so beset upon because i do not express myself in ghetto vernacular. i am gratified that the experiment went the way it did; it proves the deep seated resntment still out there for people of color, or those perceived so to be. fellows, we are in the 21st century; try to shake yourself loose from your mental shackles!

@ NYCDR

my DEEPEST apologies....lol

I was looking for somthing on this site where one could get a little insight on the other participants, but I missed it....

But now that I know you're a sista, you knowwww I got nothing but abrazas y besos para usted...LOL

peace!

"...We must not allow and stop any relative of ours from making the derogatory comments that have become a staple in our own communities. "trabajame como los blancos", "los americanos si son inteligentes", "White babies are beautiful'. I always tell them they are no more americans than you and I, they are immigrants, and I have met many dumb white people...Its starts with us. What we allow, what we wont allow. I love the James Brown song. Say it loud. I am black and I am proud!
I sing my own song. I ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!!! WHAT DO EXPECT, I M DOMINICAN!!!
PS:Escorpion_Negro. I am a girl. Its all good!! : )

LOL. Thanks Escorpion_Negro. Muchas Gracias. I am glad to hear that you agree!!!!
Buena Suerte....

To vote against Obama because of his color is wrong!
To vote FOR Obama because of his color is just as wrong!

To vote for Hillary because of her Genitals is wrong!
To vote against Hillary because of her genitals is wrong!

Obama es mucha espuma y poco chocolate....

I laugh at the delusion that somehow Black American politicians are somehow a better choice for Hispanics than White American politicians when it's obvious from experience that black politicians (and blacks in power) general are usually not so nice to Hispanics unless you bow down to their Afro-centric discourse.We as Hispanics need to be open to any option that is convenient to the Hispanic population at large and not tho a Northeastern US Ghetto alliance mentality!

Whomever the candidate and whatever the party and not be like the Black American vote which is so predictable that the democrats take it for granted and the Republicans don't even court them.

The majority of us hispanics already live in the GHETTO. As PR and Blacks increase their living standards, we stay behind guarding the ghetto my friend. This is inpart because of our lack of participation in the political arena. It is time for us to get behind a sinlge force, but most importantly aforce that is different from the status quo. Please visit Mr. Obama's site and you will see what he did for hispanics in chicago, something that Mrs. Hillary has not done for us in NYC. This is th answer to your believe about African American leaders.

It is not my belief ,but my life experience and many Hispanics have experienced worse treatment from Black Americans than from White Americans so we are naturally leery of both but we definitely cannot trust Black politicians and we definitely should not imitate a sub-culture that is the main reason for Black Americans failures in this country. Hispanics leaving their rich culture behind to adopt a hip hop culture and a mental ghetto is not in our best interests which is why when Hispanic and Black Neighborhoods intersect the dynamic is in favour of the Hispanics , once Hispanics adopt the ghetto sub-culture they become just like Black Americans.The same difference can be seen between Black American and Jamaican,Trinidadians etc.

We will someday be the majority in this nation and it is the Black American that needs to adapt to us ,not the other way around!

PEPE32, while your acertion that hispanics often suffer worse treatment from blacks than whites holds some truth indeed. But I must ask you to clarify your inplicity when making such a blanket statement. I going to point out to you the places in which your treatment comment holds true and in place where it does not hold true. Yes, the fact that hispanics encounter the greatest resistance from blacks in the poor neighborhoods it is true, since there is no white people in there, the only people to struggle with will be blacks. Moreover, if you see for example at the Bronx's changing geographics, there has been a huge influx of Albenians, who are easter european whites, not considered the same by western european whites. The hispanics community is encountering a lot of violence from this particular group, since theyr are moving to the plces that were before contested with blacks and since blacks are leaving the Bronx for the South, hispanics stay back in those areas and new, cont..

group of people is coming in for a piece of the pie. So it is proven that in Bronx's schools hispanics find themselves in violent conflicts more often with whites than blacks. This is quantitative data PEPE32, not me talking for the sake of talking. Finally, Mr. PEPE32, if you travel to the affluent black communities in virginia, d.c., maryland, n.c., s.c. and other states, you will see that these communities are heaely populated by well to do hispanics families as well. You will also, see a lot more interracial black.hispanics than blakc/whites in upper middle and upper class black communities around the country. As a hispanic family you will be more wlecome into an affluent black community than an affluent white community. Please leave the town where live behind and do some travel and you are going to see that blacks are far more tolerant to hispanics than whites. The violent that you talk about happens in the GHETTO because both groups are territorial and have to fight for.

Again Dagtan you assume that YOUR experiences are universal or even the most prevalent ,which I understand ,but my experience is not the same and since I am not Afro-centric and since the Majority of Hispanics are not of African descent we don't necessarily get the red carpet treatment from Blacks.

I grew up in a mainly Italian area and did not have any problems until I happened to venture into Black American areas.

When Hispanas marry or date whites you all see it negatively yet when it's a Black American it's great.somehow I see a bias in all these assumptions and I don't buy it. This assumption is usually fatal to the democrat party that assumes unity between Blacks and Hispanics that does not really exist except in Hispanics who have become culturally Black American ,foregoing their own culture and absorbing attitudes which they never had.

Good night

pepe32, please read my post again. It seems like you missed the point or you simply do not want to see it. Yet another blanket statement about the majority of hispanics not having any African bakcground. The entire human is gentically connected to Africa my friend just in case you did not do that. I am in no way telling you that you wrong on your thinking, I am simply trying to shed some light on some of your beliefs. PEPE32, since I migrated to the U.S. I have always attended schools that the majority of the studetn body was white, I live in a predominantly white neighborhood, I work wiht 99% white people, very glad when I find someone that I could speak spanish at home. My daughter would attend an almost all white school, so I know quiet well what you are saying. However, whites would not take you at face value, nor will they trust until you are proven and things are always iffy with them. Most of my friends are white, thank God that they are open minded and we can talk, cont

about such topics as the one that you are posting. If I had a choice base on my experience, I'll live in an affluent black community rather than an affluent white community like I do today in NYC. I know I only have to move, but my job and other things are in NYC, therefore, I have to remain "donde pica el peje" like I used to say in Santiago. I am a black dominican, my wife is white dominican, so you might think that I will lean towards blacks. Not at all, yes in the GHETTO your case is true, but in affluent communities. Please visit black affluent communities and you will see how wrong you are about your ghetto mentality and your generalization about blacks based on your ghetto experience. pepe32, give your self an opportunity to see the big picture my friend, I have had the privilege of visiting affluent black communities and I was amazed, you should do the same. In no way I am against white/hispanics marriage that would be inresponsible and prejudicial.