Reichskristallnacht in the DR.
Dominicans always been racists .

Skysail:

Heir Hitler..................

The Dominicans need an appointment with Dr. Mengele

time2rize: Friendly legal immigration is a lot different than illegal invasion.
skysail: Kristalnacht was a racist and unjust persecution of the german jew population that was condoned world wide and it brought immense repercusions to the Nazi regime. It doesn't apply here in this case. If you feel so touched then why don't you offer them your home so they can come and live with you?
When you invade a country by illegal means and only come to plunder, abuse the medical infrastructure, pollute and act like scavengers in the environment you have no right to demand
just treatment.
Kick the illegal bastards out where they came from!

skysail:
no, history says (unless you live in Iran) that a lot of jews "escaped" and the unfortunate ones that
stayed behind in Germany were sent to German extermination camps were they were shot, starved and gassed in the most inhumane and perverted ways that curses the Nazis and their descendants
for this atrocious holocaust for generations to come.
Kicking them out is what the USA does to Dominicans, Mexicans, and so forth that enter the country illegally.
As a sovereign nation we have the right to exercise the same parameters that other nations use
to protect their standard of living and their borders.

"Nearly 500 Haitian migrants were deported after the killings." Hey if that what it takes, do your thing DR, at least you're not killen' em' and it could head down that road if Leonel doesn't come to a real decision about that border.

I am not taking sides on this one as we in the US, particularly Texas suffer from the illegal immigration situation. Having been both to the DR and worked in Haiti I can tell you that the lowest paid illegal Haitian in the DR living in a cardboard house is way better off than living in City Soleil eating mud cakes and that is why they come. The DR has a right to protect its borders and it should, I guess the question is why are they not effective at it and how come so many have made it into the larger cities of the DR if there was a moniker of enforcement? A lot of folks do not realize that Mexico has a huge problem of illegals from Guatamala, and El Salvador. The come to Mexico and stay 10-18 months so they can learn the Mexican customs, food and accents so when (if) they are apprehended in the US they are deported to Mexico and not back home. There has to be a better way than buring them out of the country.

I think this is what Haitians have to start doing and if the Dominicans were smart they would have done the same..>Hop on a boat like they usually do then get a Cuban passport or somehow naturalized themselves 'In transit" then head to Florida so that way they don't get sent back at all.
That's what I did How do you think I got to stay in the USA.

In crisis like this ,those who suffer the most and ask to solve this problem peacefully are those who are half -Haitians and half -Domininicans.
It is a hard way for Dominicans to teach Haitians that they can not come unwelcome to a country an act like the country belongs to them.
I have watched them in their aggresiveness toward the Dominicans in order to survive.
Even the Haitian prostitutes show an unusual aggresiveness going after tourist johns,
As the Haitian proverb goes :"Kay vwazinay pa kay paw" .Your neighbour's house is not yours.
Haitians should keep a low profile They should keep their mouths shut and keep their noses clean.

Why are the haitians so much trouble to the fabulous DR? I never hear of any other nationality being persecuted when one national commits a crime!
And yes, there are many foreign nationals that are criminals in dr. And none of them went through an immigration process.

Y como si todo eso fuera poco....... I hope they don't burn down my house when an illigal allien Dominican commits a crime where I am...... O But I forgot, dominicans who travel illigaly and break the laws should be treated with dignity and respect..... lol

Don't forget, there are illegal Dominicans all over the world.

Rockbottom
Let's explain what has happened using ecology as reference
When you are migrating from a place where food is scarce to another place where food is also scarce you must be the strongest in order to survive or you must be the smartest
Being the smartest is let the strongest eat first and beg for left overs.
You can not kill for food if you are not the strongest.Do not behave like the alpha male and try to kill someone for his food searching tools unless you are strong enough to defend yourself.
Those foreighers who are commiting crimes in DR are strong and can get away with their crimes.
When you are the weakest as the last events have proved you must be the smartest

What's the deal with that picture? It's either doctored or was taken in PAP. DT __do not add fuel to the fire.

To all the ignorants in this thread! HAITI IS NOT A RACE! HAITI IS A NATIONALITY! Learn to describe situations and stop the ignorance! We know you love to bring in the race card but in this case you failed!!!!

kmnupe might be right, the uniform of the guy "helping" the others into the back of the truck does look a lot like Haitian Police...

Greenwave,
I trust that you missed my point.
I was refering to the Haitians wha are acting like alpha males and are killing Dominicans to dob them of their mean of survival.They are unable to defend themselves.That was a direct reponse to Rockbotton.
There is no need to get all excited.We are trying to use some common sense to educate the Haitians on how to behave in the Dominican republic.
The only one who can help are people like me who happen to be half -Haitians and half -Dominicans.
When a Dominican gets killed by a Haitian, half of me mourns . When a Haitian gets killed by a Dominican half of me mourns .
When a Haitian and A Dominican get killed I totally moun
Please read my response to a post and try to understand the context and to wihch post the response is being addressed
Cuidate mi Hermano hasta la muerte
Write soon ,I long to read you so we can come to a mutual understanding

texasshoe said: "Having been both to the DR and worked in Haiti I can tell you that the lowest paid illegal Haitian in the DR living in a cardboard house is way better off than living in City Soleil eating mud cakes and that is why they come."

That's what many say.

I took time to investigate this incident and the real cause of it, here are the facts:
A Dominican pulperia older woman was killed by a Haitian to rob her. Same Haitian escaped and killed a motorcycle owner to steal his bike. The campesinos were irate and they lynched the robber.
The bad guys were the campesinos that took the law into their own hands, we are the bad guys that are being demonized by the press. "The Dominicans kill poor peace loving Haitians", that's what the headlines will say in the international press. We Dominicans of course are racist, xenophobes, and anti-Haitian, just because we don't want to carry the burden of the Haitian disgrace. It is well documented the violence that permeates the Haitian society that's in their genes from their ancestors in Africa, with all their oil, diamonds, gold and natural resources are still the most brutal and badly managed economies in the world.
The Haitian tumor that it slowly gobbling us up as a nation must be stopped by fire

kmnupe:
I don't have friends as ugly and dumb as you are, stolen drum beater!
umba, umba, umba, on!
Go ahead and have your daily mud cake cracker!

ROCKBOTTOM, What do you mean you don't understand why Haitians are so much trouble in the DR? Haitians are all over the place and little-by-little are literally taking over my country. They compete with other poor Dominicans for jobs, education, healthcare and every other limited resources available. We can barely take care of our own people let alone a massive influx of impoverish undocumented foreigners that have no business living and working in the DR in the first place. Haitians represent aprox 18%-24% of the DR population. No country in the world has or would permit such a dispropotionate amount of illegals in one place. Yes, there are undocumented Dominicans everywhere, but that is exactly my point as you say "...there are illegal Dominicans all over the world" but not 2.5millions in just one country and all at once, like the Haitians in the DR for crying out loud!!! God, open your eyes man and wake up because you don't seem to see or understand the severity of the problem.

etiennc:
wise words: Haitians should keep a low profile They should keep their mouths shut and keep their noses clean.
The problem is that going back to Christophe, Petion, Boyer Haitians have been a the most cruel
invaders hanging Dominican priests naked, dismembering, burning people alive and committing the most atrocious crimes ever on fellow Dominicans that they did not considered humans because they were white.
White people could not hold title to their own land, Spanish was forbidden to speak, you could not go to the catholic church o sunday and women had to hide in order not to be raped en masse.
So Dominicans rightfully so are not very fond of Haitians. The Haitians are so racially bias that their own side of the island was divided by north for the blacks and south for the mulatos.
Haitians after they were kick out of DR tried to invade militarily 11 times. Not once, not twice,
but 11 times! and they were kicked back.

Some Haitians come to DR to work, others come to give birth, many come to beg and force their slave children to beg in the streets.Solutions?: Reinstate the Haitian army that was the only true
resemblance of order in a chaotic country.
When the US disbanded the Haitian army that was the "coup de grace" that finished the precarious
Haitian order and stability. True the army had been involved in coup de etat and political intrigue as well as dubious connections with drug lords. But that was a minority that could have been purged and removed from the army.
Haitian solution is not only economic but security wise as well, and it can not be provided solely by the US and the international community but by the Haitians themselves and their proud professional army and police forces.
The DR has a vested interest in Haitian stability. We are paying more than we can afford to because of Haiti's problems and getting blamed for them as well and accused of being racist, anti-Haitian, xenophobic.

ok

Bonjou! - Good morning!
N'ap boule! (most common greeting and response) - Good!
Souple - Please
Merite - You're welcome
Pa gen pwoblem - No problem
Piti piti - A little bit
Nou ap chache... - We are looking for...
Souple, ban mwen... - Please give me...
Separe sa ant nou - Divide this among you
Ou byen? - You OK?
Mwen pa two byen - I'm not too well
Mwen malad - I'm sick
Te gen yon aksidan - There was an accident
Nou bezwen yon dokte/yon mis touswit - We need a doctor/a nurse right now
Kote Iopital Ia? - Where is the hospital?
Kote Ii ou fe mal? - Where does it hurt you?
Li ansent - She's pregnant
Mwen pa ka manje/domi - I cannot eat/sleep
Mwengendjare - I have diarrhea
Mwen anvi vonmi - I feel nauseated
Tout ko mwen cho - My whole body is hot
Mwen toudi - I'm dizzy
Nou bezwen pansman/koton - We need bandages/cotton
Mwen bezwen yon bagay pi blese sa a - I need something for this cut
Ou gen SIDA - You have AIDS
Mwen grangou - I'm hungry

The world is about to change for the next four years.
America is about to make history.
Ok Guys ,curb your anger and spend a few minutes of prayer.

we are about to get the son of a white European and a black African being elected president of the most powerful country in the wold.
If he wins,you may have to reconsider your attitudes toward each other.
Oramos !!!
Let's pray !!
Anou prye !!
Prions !!!

milos,

why don't you teach the haitians spanish, instead? after all, kreyol is only spoken by (aprox.) 16 million people worldwide, while spanish, last I checked, was spoken by 400 MILLION PEOPLE WORLWIDE. Do the math and let's speak later, ok? after all, from what I understand, very few textbooks are written on kreyol, so haitians still have to learn a foreign language in order to study a career.

etiennc:
don't have your hopes so high even if Obama by a fat chance gets elected.
Blacks think that Obama is their ticket to nirvana and they will find out when he is in power if he does get elected that they will still have to work for a living and not off welfare.
Blacks have been more racist than any white man once in power, and far more cruel and sanguinary.
I don't say so, just look at the history books.
Anyway once elected he will have to govern for everyone, the USA is not Haiti or DR. They are 80 million guns in the hands of private citizens, thank God and the second amendment for that.

miloskorac:
I have some new words for you:
Unguet - How are you?
Saloprie - Fine thank you
Sak Gayñe - Que pasa?
Como u ié - Give me some
Bonzua - Adios
Benzue moguer jon jon - I want to kiss you
Unget mamao- How are you mother?
But I agree with Lautaro.Creole is an illiterate language. You guys should learn Spanish,
French or English.
Comprend?

God help me to make sense and learn something from the posts I am reading.
Geno,Milo, there is a little voice inside my head that keeps telling me that you have a good heart.
If you had the means , you would try to improve the lives of both the Haitians and the Dominicans.
You are unable to help the situation and you are so damn upset.
I would like your tombstone to read "I WISH I COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE"

What's wrong, etiennc? you know that what I'm saying is the truth, besides, learning spanish would help you improve your communications with the rest of Latin America (specially with Chavez, who is, apparently, sympathethic with your plight), seeing as how France and Canada have left you to fend for yourselves, being there only when it suits them to be pitting you against us, that is.

Lautaro,I do not disagree with you,Haitians need to learn a language that is marketable.
French is the language used by the so called intellectual elite to keep the mass in bondage.
Futhermore, because of the lazyness of the Haitians ears and mouths the are unable to correctly listen and speak French ( Those who study Linguistics can explain this phenomenon scientifically and better ) I explain as a layman.
They use creole as a scape route:no grammar rules,no syntax,no present , no past tense, no gender.
They twist any language be it French , Spanish or Englist to fit in their creole (e.g Pronouce gabish for Garbage,dayiva for diver, and so on)
I am more concerned with the Haitian Dominican conflct with no satisfying end in sight.
Conflict means when there is no enough ressources to satisfy the needs of two competing groups.The stronger will survive.
This love and hate relationship is not healthy for a generation born fron Haitians and Dominicans parents

Yeah, I perfectly understand your point, etiennc. About linguistics, this issue (the haitian populace inability or sheer laziness to correctly speak french) is often pointed out by the racists out there, saying that the physical characteristics of the blacks make them unfit to correctly pronounce the language. An unjust and foolish notion, if there ever was one.

see below

I have spent much time in the DR and have read numerous books about Dominican history. This phenomenon is a very ugly remnant of the psychology of "blanquismo", Trujillo's bloody attempt to make the DR "whiter" which culminated in the cold-blooded murder of tens of thousands of Haitians. At the core of the hatred is race, not nationality. The whiter one is, the better. Of course most Haitians are quite dark and are easily recognizable targets by those who have no other scapegoat to blame for their own decrepit poverty and hopelessness.

...CONTINUED....

DT Continue your bias. people come here to spew the most vile things and the mods censor my posts.

CONTINUED....

These same people who characterize Haitians as sub-human still think it's all right to let them work the cane fields and do dangerous construction jobs for paltry amounts of money on the many high rises buildings in Santo Domingo without giving a damn as to their legal status. Ironically, it is these same race-haters that I often represent in Immigration Court in NYC for having entered or remained in the USA unlawfully. Since, I do not care for anonymity, I remain, very truly yours, ANASTASIOS SARIKAS, ATTORNEY AT LAW, NYC

I have a question for everyone here: Why is it that the anti-haitian acts of the DR are always highlighted, when everyone knows that haitians are also suffering persecution on the other Caribbean islands, the Bahamas and Turks? When it's a fact that, save for the cases of St. Barthelemy, Cuba and Puerto Rico, all the other islands have the same racial composition as the haitians, and commit also the same crimes that the DR do against them. It seems that being a colony of the UK, the US, France, the Netherlands, or, as in the case of Cuba, a revolutionary island, can give any country the license to act with impunity against the haitians. Why can the DR be given the same license to act with impunity that those places currently enjoy? And before anyone comes with the same old tune of: "you also have inmigrants", let me say theses: a) If you haven't noticed, the DR is also a Third World country which can barely sustain itself, which is a given that it can't be used as (cont...)

(cont...) as a escape valve to support another country, let alone the poorest one in the Western Hemisphere, no less. b) Those west indian islands that I mentioned ALSO HAVE INMIGRANTS IN THE US. So they can't claim to have the moral high ground on this case.

Could stop the chest pumping and curb your vain and pompous rethocic ? Stop for a moment your execise in futily and partipate or witness (if you can not vote) history in the making
The son of a Black African and and White European is about to become president of the most powerful and richest country in the world.
Your life ,whether you are Haitian,Dominican,racist,lunatic,paranoid, will never be the same anymore.
Ask yourself watching this stricking example what you can do to improve the lives of your feloow citizen

You're deluding yourself if you think that his election will change the usual lobbying on DC. If any, he should be careful for whatever step he would take from now on, unless he wants to be reunited with his dearly departed family before his time, that is.

Lautaro,
The pessimist says : it is going to rain, I am not going out
The optimist says: it is not going to rain COME ON let's go
THE REALIST SAYS : LET'S
TAKE AN UMBRELLA with us.
Got my drift ??

Whatever. I'm only cautioning you to be on your guard, unless you want to be the recipient of an easy dissapointment when he fail to deliver on his promises. As Saint Thomas, I'll only believe in change when I see it.

Generoso.......you silly little man. It is you who knows nothing except hatred and racism. You speak of Haitians as if they have no right to live; as if they are children of a God far smaller than yours.

On top of it, you hide your identity behind a false name.

Coward.

I do hope that I have not hurt your stinking feelings but, either way, I don't give a rat's ass.

Thank you.
Anastasios Sarikas

Generoso,I was shocked to see that the English equivalent of GENEROSO is GENEROUS.
Generous seems to suggest someone who is liberal in giving and sharing.
Now , I think I understand the struggle that is taking place in your mental world between your ID and your EGO.
Let me psychoanalayze you for a moment.:As a sedentary of the Dominican Republic you have realized that the ressources there are limited and can not be shared with other immigrants.
You feel in order to survive ,the immigrants should either be exterminated or pushed back to their original locality.
But ,there is a also generous side of your character that pities Haitians and would like to help
In this conflict (where two groups are competing for limited ressources) Your soul is tormented because you are forced to take a stand.
Your shame for being incapable to be a good Samaritan has turned into anger toward the poor Haitians instead toward those who exploit them.
We call this :Displaced Aggression

Anastasio: I have boots made out of lawyer skins.
I tell you the same thing the "ugly" in the Good Bad and the ugly movie told the man pointing the gun at him in the bathtub after he shot him,
"if you are going to shoot, shoot, don't talk"

Anastasio:
One more thing,
BTW I am not a little man like you ( judging by your ugly photograph) I am a big, strong, gorgeous, born in America of Dominican parents, 6'2" ex-marine with 200 pounds of dynamite and a 8" fuse!
Now if you want to have a duel let me know the place, the time and the weapons and I will be there!

Generoso,stop this sylliness,We are withnessing History beig mad Stop pumping your chest and flexing your musclesl.
A blakck man is about to become president of the United States ,He will be visiting your country to inspire the black,the mulattoe that someday they can be presidant
Generoso , por fabor take a break tonight.,get some sleep!

etiennc:
Mom ami, merci pous votre message.
Avocat sa se un grow kaka plus salop.
Toot le avocat samble qui le conne ampli plus que unlot monde.
Se te tous une saloprie an merdan
Mamao mois habite plus atten le cole in Haiti
Je gaiñe amplil famil laba
Bon soir,
Hey, I am going to the Jaragua to celebrate Obama's victory...
McCain is toast!

Generoso....you do not frighten me. It's your small minded racism that scares me. How can you view other humans as unworthy of living because they have darker skin, come from another country and have a different culture?

By the way, I am physically very small, ill and middle aged. There would be no glory in kicking my sorry old ass.

You should really consider.........yoga.

Tassos54:
If there is a person on earth that can not be a racist it's me. My skin is brown and I descend from
immigrants from very far lands. My mother was American raised in Haiti and my father a Dominican national.
Race has nothing to do with my beliefs. Politics aside I have no bias against the people of Haiti or people's of other nationalities or skin color.
It's a question of territorial rights my friend. If your neighbor comes and offer to work for you and
plow your land and you pay him what he asks for and he leaves when the work is done. Then I have no problem with that. If he comes and invades my land, steals my cattle, cuts and burns my trees and takes his wife to the hospital that I pay for in taxes without even asking my permission,
then it's wrong!
Dominicans are not being asked by the Haitians to come here en masse to work "for peanuts"
as you picture it, they come because of their urgent economic problems. Our economy and public health facilities are being stra

this illegal invasion.
We are not a rich country like the USA and even if we were what country in the world would support
an invasion of over 20% of their population by people in dire need of food, work and urgent health care?
The international community judges us and makes us parias because of the Haitian problems.
We are shouldering alone the Haitian problems and is just not right, Haiti is not solely a Dominican problem it is an international problem that the world has stuck the Dominicans with because of our
fortunate or unfortunate territorial closeness and unguarded border.
Haiti is the whole planet's responsibility, not only the Dominican Republic.
If the USA would direct the money that is being spent in ICE CREAM only in one month hunger could be eradicated from not only Haiti but the whole world!
So from one human to another it's not a question of small minded racism that troubles us....
It's a question of compassion for ALL human beings and allocation of resources.

Tassos54, One more thing, I visited India when it was cool to walk the Himalayas and did yoga with monkeys
all around that use to come running and steal our bags looking for fruit.
So yes yoga is a wonderful and relaxing exercise, but in today's troubled world yoga and vegetarian mentality doesn't cut it any more, it is more adapted to a discipline I learned when I visited China next door to India....
Chinese martial arts!
PS You can probably lecture us on the lessons of the Greek-Turkish disputes in the island of Cyprus
under UN "supervision" since 1974, since we are also an island with two different ethnic groups
living side by side.

Generoso, you know, you actually sound like a very interesting fellow and much of what you say is actually quite enlightening. I genuinely apologize to you for my earlier bout of passionate expression. It's just that I sensed racisim in your earlier remark - and racism has always made me angry even when I was a mere immigrant kid from Greece (not Cyprus) who spoke no English and my first friends were little black kids in the neighborhood. I have a picture of this scene that would bring a smile to your face. I haven't gotten much taller since then (heh, heh).

Last night, during Barack's acceptance speech, I cried tears of joy. You see, I 'm almost 55 years old and I remember the civil rights movement of the 60's. I remember watching some very ugly scenes on TV.

I never thought that I could be so proud of America, as I am today.

Good luck, be well, and, if you are ever in NYC, please call me and we'll have lunch at a great Greek restaurant nearby.

I would like anyone on this board to show me documented proof that the Haitian community (DR, Haiti, Canada, USA) protesting and petitioning the RD government for undocumented Haitians' rights. I don't mean Sonia Pierre and the Jesuits.

I'm talking about live protests, written articles, television interviews and such by a significant percentage of Haitians.

People always allude to the ungrateful Haitians this and that when they ( DR Haitians) are not the ones bringing issues in DR to light. For the most part, these undocumented immigrants just want to survive.

The populations of both countries are being played by bigger players. Poor immigrants do not benefit by making noise.

You want to see ungrateful, try working for some Social services programs in NYC.

Ironically, I worked in a Dominican stronghold for 5 years and get this__I've helped hundreds of Dominican families , documented and undocumented.

continued.

So, when some people come onto these boards to spout half-thruths and rethoric, understand that some of us have REAL experience and know these issues firsthand.

tassos54:

tears were coming down my own eyes as I was watching the election results and Obama's acceptance speech.
Even though he was not my preferred candidate (Hillary was) I was proud of the USA and being a
child that grew up in not so good public schools I got used to the prejudice when they used to call me "spick" and so forth. So I was happy for America and it shows the world that we can still correct our past mistakes and be the beacon of liberty, freedom and opportunity in the world.
I apologize as well for being too quick on the draw on your comments.
No hard feelings and yes I accept your lunch invitation.
Be well my new friend,
G
PS I love Greek food!

generoso: Tengo que decir .. that as a Latina and fellow Dominican .. I am appalled and offended at how ignorant you can be. Who in their right mind says "It is well documented the violence that permeates the Haitian society that's in their genes from their ancestors in Africa"... I mean do you not know where Dominicans came from. In a country who's population is 90% of color, how can you say THEIR ancestors were African? How in the world do you think most of Dominicans get their color even if some are lighter than others? I suggest you check your sources... you fool. And lets not forget that Dominicans like our family members migrate to the United States for a better life and many times are talked about in such ignorant terms as the ones you used. And how can you make fun of someone's starvation in such a way? All your supposed Haitian-respecting speeches are nothing but rubbish. You are condescending. I am truly ashamed to share an ETHNICITY with you. How ignorant of you. INCREIBLE!

this is for you GENEROSO:

See that Haitians aren't the only one's...

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....women-are-prostitutes-in-Suriname

Dominicanita
Thank you for your personal response.
Your commentary standing high on a self righteous pedestal is inconsequential.
You use he word ignorant repeatedly and you could only quote an article about Dominican prostitution in the islands. You should apply the ignorant label to yourself standing in front of a mirror.
If you would just ask about African ethnicity or the violence factors amongst the different tribes
in that continent you would learn something, but obviously your are functionally illiterate and
your comprehension ratio is low.
Lastly I am not "appalled and offended" by your poorly expressed spanglish comments or your
lacking substantial references suggesting just that you have a "fuzzy" mindset and lack of gray matter in your airhead.

genereso: Spanglish es mucho mejor que el disparate que escribiste tu en supuestamente Creole y Frances.Y como yo tengo amistades Haitianas, les pedi que me tradusieran tus disparates. Porque eso es lo que era..frases sin sentido.Que ridiculo eres. Porque no abres un libro y investigas de donde tu gente vino, por que te aseguro que tus ancestros tambien son esas tribus violentas de Africa. Tu argumento es vacio, puesto que solo argumentas de la pertenencia etnica y se te olvida que la pertenencia se trata de cultura no de color. Si a esas vamos... los Dominicanos tambien somos violentos porque tenemos ancestros en Africa. O a caso no te acuerdas que eramos un solo pais antes. Y que tan "self righteous" puedo ser si estoy defendiendo una cultura que no es mia? Y tengo varios articulos, pero solo puse ese para que veas que los Dominicanos pasan por lo mismo que los Haitianos y que te compadescas un poco mas de otros seres humanos.No puede ser que seas una persona educada. Que asco me da.

sigue abajo

Dominicanita
Tu eres Haitiana y no debes de tener tanta verguenza de tu raza escondiendote detras de un nombre dominicano.
No sabras por tu ignorancia que el creole es una lengua analfabeta y se escribe como se pronuncia
o se oye por eso no debemos de comparar el creole con el frances ni fue esa mi intención.
Hay en Africa cientos de tribus no violentas y muchas muy violentas depende del area donde se encuentren.
Lo único que tu haces como buena Haitiana que eres es insultar y disparar con tu odio balas de salva de ignorancia que solo hacen reir a los tienen una pizca de conocimiento del tema.
No voy a contestarte más porque solo atacas y insultas tipico de los Haitianos y acusas a las dominicanas de verdad de ser putas, en vez de comparecerte de sus necesidades y pobreza.
Eres tú que das asco por quererte pasar como Dominicana siendo una Haitiana.
A propo el que suscribe tiene un historial academico y educativo que tú como mala y odiosa analfabeta funcional ni siquiera

pudieras aspirar a entender en un día muy lejano.

Quiero que sepas que si yo fuera Haitiana no me diera la mas minima verguenza. Uno nunca debe de avergonzarse de quien uno es. Si el tener amistades en la universidad que sean Haitianas me convierte en Haitiana pues esta bien no hay problema. Me encantaria conoserte para ver si eres tan bravo en persona. No necesito comprobarte nada... si soy Dominicana. y muy orgollosa de serlo pero tambien no tengo prejuicios y tengo la mente avierte. Y si el Creole es "analfabeto" como dices por se escribe como se habla, pues el espanol esta el mismo bote no crees? Porque tambien se escribe como se dice mi amor. O y me alegro que sepas exactamente de que tribu en Africa decendieron los Dominicanos. Me imagino que sabes exactamente que tribu fue.. verdad manito? ;-) ... Por favor por favor comprate un libro que ya tus argumentos estan un poco fuera de lugar. Y dios solo espero en dios que como todos aqui estamos en el anonimato... que no seas familia mia ni amigo mio en la vida real.

No me respondas si no quieres. Me da igual. Solo digo que espero que tu seas el unico ignorante en tu familia. Por que la gente como tu son las que perpetuan la violencia y la corrupcion en el pais natal de nuestros padres

O y tampoco sabia que los analfabetos hiban a la universidad y estudiaban Analysis Social y Cultural como su concentracion. Gracias por tu comentario. Soy tan analfabeta no se leer.. no te das cuenta??? No se leer ni escribir y e estado teclando sin saber lo que estoy diciendo. Y solo te digo que el analfabeto es una persona que no puede leer. Ya que talves no sabes ni la definicion de la palabra que estas usando.

À generoso,

Ayant lu vos commentaires acerbes a propos du peuple haïtien, je dois vous dire que vous devriez avoir honte non seulement du fait que vous êtes quasiment analphabète en, au moins 3 trois langues, mais aussi du fait que vous ignorez vos propres racines ainsi que les tendances meurtrières de votre propre peuple.

D’abord, étant un Dominicain qui croit que les Haïtiens doivent leurs maux sociaux à leurs racines africaines est incompréhensiblement con. Comment pouvez-vous prétendre que les Haïtiens et les Dominicains n’aient pas les mêmes ancêtres africains ? Je tiens à vous rappeler que les Amérindiens de l’île d’Hispañola furent totalement massacrés il y a cinq siècles. Alors, ce n’est pas des « Indios » que le peuple dominicain hérita sa couleur de peau. Bref, vos teints sont dus au métissage entre vos anciens maîtres espagnols et les Noirs emmenés de l’Afrique.

El problema es que no entiendes logicamente lo que se te dice:
La definicion de un "analfabeto funcional" es aquella persona que conoce las letras y es capaz de leer en voz alta un texto, pero no lo comprende, o no puede explicarlo con otras palabras, o no puede actuar respecto a el. Es decir, la persona posee las habilidades de lectura y escritura adecuadas, pero no es capaz de utilizarlas en su vida diaria o en un contexto determinado con una utilidad practica.
O tal vez eres dislepsica:
Se llama dislexia a la incapacidad de algunas personas para leer y escribir correctamente, sin tener por otro lado, una inhabilidad intelectual, ni motriz ni visual o en cualquier otro ámbito.
Se termino la lección y esto debe de ser en ingles:
You are flunked! with and F for failure to understand the assignment.

HaitienNYC
Je ne comprends. English please.

A generoso:

How ironic...you claimed to be able to speak French and Kreyol, yet you have failed miserable at doing both.

Here's a brief summary:

If Haitians are violent because of their ancestry, than logically Dominicans would have to suffer from the same violent dispostition. You see, the native Arawak inhabitants of Hispanola were killed 5 centuries ago, so Dominicans owe their color not to "los Indios" but to racial mixture between Europeans and Black Africans. Furthermore, the Blacks who were brought to Santo Domingo came from the same place as those brought to Haiti. The Spanish did NOT have any slave ports in Africa, therefore all their slaves came via the French or the English. However since the Treaty of Ryswick gave the French possession of the eastern 3rd of Hispanola in the 17th century, it was logistically much simpler for the Spanish to get slaves from the French.

What does this mean? The only difference between Dominican and Haitian ancestry is that some slaves were sent to toil in Santo Domingo while others were left to work in Haiti.

Furthermore, there is by definition no such thing as an "illiterate" language. Illiteracy is only measured in terms of an individual. Since no language can read or write itself, no language can be illiterate. If it has a writing system (as Kreyol does, which you COMPLETELY butchered in you attempt to be a polyglot) then obviously some individuals will no how to read and write it.

Perdon por no ver la parte de "funcional". Todavia...No puedo creer que tu me digas que soy una analfabeta funcional y yo me puedo limpiar el culo con tu ingles ... O cielos que risa... por favor no uses un thesaurus electronico la proxima ves. Se ve muy feo. Y es muy interesante que yo no pueda comprender tu argumento cuando tus argumentos estan solamente basados en insultos y por si fuera poco usas mis mismos argumentos diciendome que no me "compadesco" de los Dominicanos... Pero que come mierda eres. Se acabo la leccion pero sigues hablando. Que interesante mi amor. Quisiera que me pudieras comprobar tus argumentos porque yo tengo documentos historicos para comprobar los mios. Y mira que es aun mas interesante... Una persona Haitiana parese que a respondido en Frances. Y por lo visto nadie esta pagina piensa que tienes sentido comun. Tu eres la unica persona que piensa que tienes logica.

Lastly, I said that it is digusting that a person can mock and make fun of a people's suffering. Yes, there is an AIDS problem in Haiti and yes, in times of crisis, some among us are forced to eat cakes of mud to ward of starvation.

However, what kind of human being are you to mock us for this? what kind of person could acknowledge our humanitarian crisis and then classify us as needy and violent? While there are violent Haitians (just as there are PLENTY of violent Dominicans), please don't forget that the Dominicans governement relies extremely heavily on Haitian workers. What is the DR's main export? It's not guayaba, not chinola, it's SUGAR CANE...and who works the fields? HAITIANS! Any financial analyst will be able to tell you that the economy of the DR would collapse even further without Haitians.

And please, please don't forget that the DR is a 3rd WORLD country too that has been on the brink of disaster several times in the last 3 decades.

The DR has the 2nd highest HIV rate outside of sub-Saharan Africa.

Should the state of the DR continue to deteriorate, I hope that the international community is kinder to your people than you are to the Haitian people.

""You see, the native Arawak inhabitants of Hispanola were killed 5 centuries ago"

That'a a myth. Recent genetic on the Dominican population has proven otherwise, proving something that most Dominicans were long aware of.

HaitianneNYC
I have never said that I speak fluent Creole or French although I studied French and lived in France briefly and consider French a beautiful and florid language. I could read a book in French as well but
my comprehension is not 100%. And again with the personal innuendos and insults. Can't you converse in more civil ways?
Anyway I see your point and I mostly agree with it, so what?
You have to read the history of slavery by a German historian and author who is considered the worlds foremost expert in the subject. I will look the title up for you if you want.
His thesis proves that the Portuguese started the slave trading in Africa because the blacks violent tribes were constantly having wars and murdering the losers that surrendered, and instead they suggested that instead of killing them to sell them. So that's how it got started. But the point that I was making was that depending on the African area the tribes are violent or peaceful, similar
to the Taino and C

To HaitienneNYC:

First of all, the dominican economy doesn't depend on sugar cane exports anymore, at least since the 1980's, when the governments of the PRD decided to drop that economic model in favor of the free trade zones and tourism, taking advantage of the Caribbean Basin initiative that the Reagan gov. used to award those govs. in the continent that successfully fought comunism, so your claims are a little bit outdated. Also, your claim that "the Taino have been all killed off" has been disproved by genetic tests on recent years. If you want to learn about the real Taino ancestry currently existing on the island, please go to the following site:

http://www.kacike.org/GuitarEnglish.html

or go to the following forum thread, were I made an entry following the genetic results:

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....Taino-Ancestry-Among-Dominicans/9

Caribe indian tribes. No brag just fact. If you want to converse without mud slinging, be my guest.
I am not anti Haitian au contraire I have deep respect and admiration for the Haitian people.
Just that this Dominican Today cyber paper is not the Haitian Today and there are a lot of Haitian supremacists out there who demean, insult and try to ridicule Dominicans constantly. I have seldom heard or read such disgusting and evil foul language used in print. Accusations of prostitution, insulting your mother, using voo doo, and other tragic and bitter cries from hate mongers that use this vehicle for Dominicans to pursue their own selfish means.
So if you want to have an intelligent conversation you must follow the rules and be civil.

A cibaeno:

Yes I am very much aware of the mitochondrial DNA studies conducted on Puerto Ricans and Dominicans.

However, while the studies did identify a certain amount of Arawak and Taino admixture in Dominicans, there conclusions were that Domincans are primarly descended from European and African ancestors. Much like other Black populations in the New World.

Due to diseases, more than 85% of the indigenous population was killed within a few decades of European arrival.

Para dominicanita:

¿Por qué ese afán tuyo y de mucha gente en la diáspora de igualar los casos migratorios de USA y de Dominicana? Por si no lo sabías, en primer lugar, la RD no es (ni ha sido) un imperio multinacional como lo ha sido USA, por lo cual es una absoluta muestra de estupidez de tu parte el insinuar que nosotros tenemos los recursos monetarios suficientes para lidiar con el éxodo haitiano hacia nuestro país (no se le puede llamar de otro modo, vista las condiciones en las que se encuentra Haití ahora mismo), éxodo que amenaza desbordar las capacidades exiguas del estado dominicano, visto el hecho de como la población inmigrante haitiana en nuestro país (vista a traves de censos indirectos) representa el 20% de nuestra población, porcentaje que de suceder en el país en el que te encuentras, ya hace mucho que verías a los minutemen ayudando al INS a hacer el trabajo de deportación. Si algo, el estado dominicano se ha hecho de la vista gorda con esta problematica.

"However, while the studies did identify a certain amount of Arawak and Taino admixture in Dominicans, there conclusions were that Domincans are primarly descended from European and African ancestors. Much like other Black populations in the New World."

Um, How can you be "black" if you have both European and African ancestry? That's a mixed race individual. I see that the one drop rule appeals to your world view.

That might be so, HaitienneNYC, but there's a huge difference between that and saying that the Taino genetic imprint doesn't exist on dominican soil. A huge and malicious falsehood at its best, specially when one consider that 1,800,000 people (according to the studies results) do carry Taino ancestry within them.

To Lautaro:

As I previously said, those studies only prove that a small amount of indigenous admixture exists in Dominican DNA!

Any and all credible genetic studies show that Dominicans are mostly descendants of Africans and Europeans.

And, also, agriculture is still the most important sector of the Dominican economy.

While tourism and sex tourism are vital to the country, they are still considered tertiary industries to agriculture and mining.

To cibaeno:

Black is just a term I chose to use. Black, as my definition explained, does not mean that you are solely of African ancestry.

Most peopel who call themselves "Black" in the Western Hemisphere are clearly of mixed race. Dominicans are not the only ones. African Ameicans, Jamaicans, Haitians, all of them are mixed.

I don't know why the term should distrort the fact that Dominicans are nonetheless primarily African and European....

Call it what you want, but "Indio" is only a small part of the Dominican racial make-up.

Lautaro and cibaeño75
Thank you so much for the threads and the support, very illuminating to say the least. I was feeling outnumbered here for a bit.

To Lautaro:

I never said they did not exist. I merely said the most numeically significant part of Dominican hreitage comes from the union of African and European cultures.

You have admited to this by stating that 1,800,000 people out of a country of 9 million have Taino heritage. That's less than 2 out of 9. Furthermore, one has to ask what percentage of the hertigae of these 1,800,000 is made up of Taino. Arguably, very little.

To generoso:

I refuse to respond to an more of your foolish comments until you learn how to clearly express yourself in English or French.

Your logic and grammar are equally unclear, and I refuse to waste my time trying to decipher them.

That's only a preliminary result, HNYC, the final numbers might be higher, so don't get your extreme afrocentric views too high. Besides, 1,800,000 is still a significant number for a people that was supposed to be "extinct".

Lautaro:

Perdon. Pero yo nunca dije que la RD tiene suficiente finansas para soportar la migracion Haitiana. No se donde leiste eso. Solo argumentava sobre nuestro ancestros y en la manera que los Domincanos muchas veces tratamos hablar sobre los Haitianos como si no pertenesieran a la misma rasa. Estoy definitivament consiente de que la RD no se puede comparar a los Ustados Unidos... seria una idiotes. No crees? Por favor tienes que leer mejor.

Lautaro... si no te diste cuenta solo hable de los ancestros de los Dominicanos. Nunca dije nada de fronteras. Nunca mensione nada de eso. Lo pasa es que aveces uno se olvida que los otros son seres humanos. Todos tenemos necesidades y no debemos de burlarnos de eso ni tampoco hablar como si fuesemos mejores, teniendo ancestros en comun. Eso es lo que no comprendo.

La que debe de hacer un mayor esfuerzo para aclarar las cosas eres tú, Dominicanita. Ya que cualquiera que lea tus posts creerá que tú estas diciendo que la RD debe de abrir sus fronteras de par en par a la inmigración haitiana, cuando los propios USA donde vives no estarían dispuestos a hacer eso, mucho más cuando la población inmigrante allá no pasa del 12% de la población. Si algo, nosotros podríamos darles clases de tolerancia a ellos, visto como nuestra población solamente a reaccionado esporádicamente frente a la problematica.

HaitienneNYC
To continue I never said that all the Haitians are violent. Some are very cruel, murderous and cowardly to do for example the "deshuké" or putting a used tire on the body of a person and impregnating with gasoline and setting fire on them while they are alive. Now that's cruel and uncivilized and is a custom imported from Africa.
The American Army special forces that were in Somalia just before the Haitian invasion thought that
they were going to get the same bitter and resilient resistance as the Somalian irregulars when they landed in Haiti and were surprised how quickly the big bad Ton Ton Macoute Haitian army folded, surrendered their weapons
and ran for their lives instead of defending their country's honor and sovereignty with at least a token of dignified resistance.

"Black is just a term I chose to use. Black, as my definition explained, does not mean that you are solely of African ancestry.
Most peopel [sic] who call themselves "Black" in the Western Hemisphere are clearly of mixed race. Dominicans are not the only ones. African Ameicans, Jamaicans, Haitians, all of them are mixed.
I don't know why the term should distrort the fact that Dominicans are nonetheless primarily African and European...."
Last time I checked your countrymen of mixed race did not identify as black and are very content with being identified as mulatto.I myself am of mixed race and I can assure you that I'm not black in appearance at all so why should identify as such?Because it conforms to someone's view of how I should view myself? Ridiculous.I am a mixed race individual that is the end and beautiful result of five centuries of race mixing and all the components of my being make me who I am so why should I deny any of them?To suit you or others like you? I think not.

To Cibaeno, generoso, Lautaro, and the forum as a whole:

You all should realize that every single arugment you are using to deride and demonize Haitians for coming to the DR, is the EXACT same thing that Puerto Ricans say about the Dominicans that came on yolas to Puerto Rico every day.

They hate Dominicans in Mayaguez and call them invaders. You may not think you're Black, put as any Boricua what color a Dominican is and the first thing out of there mouth is "moreno" or "cocolo". Look in the mirror, because there is not very much difference between your color and that the color of the Haitians you despise.

BTW, take my word on this becasue all of my boyfriends have been Boricua and they all say the same thing about Dominicans in PR. They say as soon as they climb off the yola, they want to sell popola or sell drugs and act like they belong there. Furthermore, Puerto Ricans think it's extra fucked up how you all hate Haitians and then expect to be treated like angels in the US

There you go, always using the slimy race card to justify what's otherwise a serious problem. For your information, miss, two wrongs don't make a right, so if the boricuas want to expel ILLEGAL dominicans from PR, they have all the liberty to do so, it's their land after all.

To Lautaro:

If you actually read my comments, I never said they were extinct. Not a single word.

Where did you read that?

I only mentionned that the Spanish committed acts of genocide against the Taino and reduced their numbers to a tiny fraction of what they were.

And if I'm afrocentric, you're in afro-denial because you have such a problem with the heritage of your country. Sad.

If you onle day decide to research the lingusitc, culturaln and racial heritage of your people you'l see that africa is the biggest contributor. Get over it.

"BEAUTIFUL RACE MIXING"... you mean rape, cibaeño75??? Sounds Beautiful to me ;-)

Lautaro
El problema es que la niña insulta y se pone brava porque no entiende lo que escribes. Estas perdiendo tu tiempo no se puede conversar con ella porque te insulta ademas de que no entiende tus respuestas. Mira todas las faltas ortograficas como : argumentava en vez de argumentaba,
consiente en vez de conciente, idiotes, en ves de idiotez, da mucha pena. Ademas es Haitiana
posando como Dominicana familia de Dominicanation.

If you would care to go to the campos of the Cibao, HNYC, the practices of the campesinos over there would convince you that, if something, the Tainos are the biggest contributors, cibaeño can attest to that. This is specially poignant if you take into account the fact that the Cibao is the most populated region of the country.

To cibaeno:

I NEVER told you how to identify! Why are you so defensive! I just identified Blacks as an arbitrary term, adopted by some, rejected by others! It really does not concern me what you call yourself. I'm merely stating the fact that, call it what you want, the Dominican Republic has a large contribution racially, lingusitically and genetically from African cultures.

Furthermore, I am a mixed race Haitian and I DO identify as Black. My skin is very light and my famiy all have green eyes and light brown or blond hair. That is just MY choice. I could not care less what you call yourself.

May I remind you that your identification as such falls neatly into the definition of a person that buys line, hook and sinker into the stupid one drop rule? Why one drop of blood have to make someone black, specially when that said person may have more from the other ethnicites on his/her bloodline?

generoso:
tu eres el ultimo que debes de hablar sobro faltas ortograficas, si hace poque trataste de escribir una oracion en Ingles y fue un desastre total. Ridiculo

Y ademas se te olvida que naci en los Estado Unidos. No tuve una educacion en espanol. Pero me entendiste con todo y mis Faltas verdad???

That, my dear lady, explains a lot.

"They hate Dominicans in Mayaguez and call them invaders. You may not think you're Black, put as any Boricua what color a Dominican is and the first thing out of there mouth is "moreno" or "cocolo". Look in the mirror, because there is not very much difference between your color and that the color of the Haitians you despise."

I doubt that. I've been to Puerto Rico MANY times and have never been called moreno or cocolo. You fail to realize that Dominicans come in all shades. I happen to come from the llighter end of the spectrum. That's number one.Number two I have never come on here to deride or demonize your people so the comment to the thread as a whole and me in a particular was unwarranted. I challenge you to find any post I've made insulting the haitian people. I have over a thousand posts here and you will not find one. Perhaps an apology is in order?

""BEAUTIFUL RACE MIXING"... you mean rape, cibaeño75??? Sounds Beautiful to me ;-) "

Regardless of how it was initiated race mixing is precisly what happened nonetheless.

"Furthermore, I am a mixed race Haitian and I DO identify as Black. My skin is very light and my famiy all have green eyes and light brown or blond hair. That is just MY choice. I could not care less what you call yourself."

That's your choice if you choose to disinherit a part of your genetic legacy. My opinion on the matter is that one's life is that less richer when thry reach such a decision but again that's my opinion.

To Lautaro:

Not at any point did I say I agree with the "one drop rule". That dizque "rule" was born out of a hatred for Blacks and a belief that their blood would "contaminate" the blood of white people.

I call myself Black even though I'm a mixed Haitian because that's just how I feel. I am culturally more linked to the African part of my famiily than the European part. I am still very proud to be mixed race.

So, call yourself what you want, you can call yourself White for all I care, a label can not and will not change what's inside, nor can it ever change where your ancestors came from.

Good day.

Cibaeno75,

Do you perhaps think that they haven't insulted your color precisely because you are lighter? Think about it!

And, of course Dominicans come in all colors. So do Haitians. I have hazel eyes and long light brown hair and my skin is the color of honey. But people still generalize and treat as any other Haitian lady.

Yes I can't say that race mixing didn't happen being that both my parents are Dominican, my dad from Santiago and light skinned and my mom from Sto. Domingo and dark skinned and i am a mix of their mixture. My dad is very light because of the mixing of races and my family is very varied in color. The problem is that you seem to think that way we were originally mixed is BEAUTIFUL. It may be know that people have choices and I don't have anything against race mixing. I've dated outside of my race before. And even if you choose to reject the one drop rule which I am not in favor of either, I'm sure that just the fact that you are a Latino puts on the same boat when it comes to Racism and Prejudice. It is a sad thing but, that's just the "BEAUTIFUL" outcome of our histories.

"So, call yourself what you want, you can call yourself White for all I care, a label can not and will not change what's inside, nor can it ever change where your ancestors came from."

That still doesn't change the fact that the island have two different nations that developed themselves in parallel. One centered on the sugar cane plantations, and the other centered on cattle ranching. The fact that you people choose to ignore the fact that the rules to analyze one reality can not be applied to analyze the other and viceversa is not my fault. Your leaders already discovered that the hard way.

Anyway my good people... I must go and maybe continue this heated discussion some other day. I'm actually on my way to buy suit cases, because I leave to Sto. Domingo in a week. You can find me in Villa Consuelo celebrating la Navidad con mi family, los Aquinos-Morrobel y los Almontes... por si algunos me quieren encontrar. Pero busquenme despues del 26 de Diciembre porque los primeros dias estare en Puerto Plata con la Familia disfrutando. Bueno dia a todos ;-)

To cibaeno75:

"That's your choice if you choose to disinherit a part of your genetic legacy. My opinion on the matter is that one's life is that less richer when thry [sic] reach such a decision but again that's my opinion"

Well, sir, call it what you will. I respect your right to identify as you choose, I wish you had the decency to extend to me the same courtesy.

My life is quite rich, and while I celebrate my European ancestors, social history in the form of slavery and segregation have molded me, and many other mixed race individuals, into a person who feels closer to her African ancestry. Nonetheless, I will always be a proud mutliracial Haitian woman! Pa' que sepas!

Have a safe trip, dominicanita. ;-)

Thank you.. I'm glad that despite this discussion we can still be civil

Can't help having a soft spot for the ladies, specially for my compatriots. ;-)

HaitienneNYC
You described yourself as quite a dish and beautiful woman, could it be that you and Dominicanita
are close, real close, maybe living together or the same person?
Can you do coco mordan? LOL.

GTG.. bye

ha ha ha coco mordan.. the funniest thing you've said all day...and who the hell asks a haitian woman that when that's a Dominican form of expression???

To generoso:

Sweety pie, first of all, I do not speak Spanish. Thanks for assuming I speak four langauges. I am Haitian. Only French, Kreyol and English.

Dominicanita seem like a nice girl, I guess not all Dominicans have such a deep resesntment towards Haitians. That's nice to know.

And it's funny how you hit on me after trying to insult me and my people. You really are a Dominican man!

And that's a very nasty thing to ask me. Please believe, that you will NEVER know anything about my "koko", ok? Not in your wildest dreams.

HaitienneNYC
Don't ever say never, you never know what is store for the future....there is only one step from hate to love you know. Had you told me your physical credentials I would have been nicer to you.LOL.
Anyway I do not hate Haitians, nor do I carry any resentment towards blacks or any races.
But seriously now can you do Koko mordan? LOL.
I must go but may peace and love be with you, you are full of fire Haitienne.
PS Thanks for calling me sweetie pie I am blushed!

To generoso:

No comment

"The problem is that you seem to think that way we were originally mixed is BEAUTIFUL"

I called myself beautiful.Your reading comprehension failed you when you read my post.

"Do you perhaps think that they haven't insulted your color precisely because you are lighter? Think about it!"

Exactly. The vast amount of my countrymen suffering discrimination in Puerto Rico are the victims of racism more than ethnocentrism. Most black puerto ricans that I have spoken to have related to me stories of treatment that not at all unlike stories one hears from Dominicans that have had negative experiences on the neighboring island. Everywhere I went I always identified myself as DOminican and was never treated any different after having done so.

Generoso,I am back. I did beg you before I left to keep order in the house,upon my return I am seeing you with a bottle of Mamahuana and looking for a coco mordant.
I warned you that you do not want to do the same thing like Obama wants to do in Irack
" premature withdrawal"
The coco mordant is a sure way to make you say" good morming madam and good bye at the same time .
You are smart enough to catch my drift

Not enough hatred going on why is that..... Let's turn this post into what it really should be Haitians vs Dominicans we all know that Haitian women have the sweetest juice on the island and we all know that Dominican women just can't get enough of the Haitian Mandingo and those are facts. Last time I check the WEST-SIDE was the BEST-SIDE. <period)

And once you go black you never come back.

"Due to diseases, more than 85% of the indigenous population was killed within a few decades of European arrival."

Actually, this is a historical myth. According to Spanish history (written by the Spaniards themselves), women were not allowed to migrate to the Americas during the first 30 years of exploration which means that the majority of the children born during that time were either indigenous or mestizos. Mestizos were classified as white, giving the false impression that there were less natives and more whites than there really were. The Spanish colonial period was all about keeping up a good appearance in front of the king, even if it was on paper, a lot of the statistics need to be re-examined.

blah, blah, blah. haiti rule that's all... viva the haitian empire forever

Dominicanation:

I don't get you... your name is Dominicanation and you're all about Haitian rule??? Weird... I mean I love Haitian ppl too but ... you're kinda awkward.

Yeah Dominicanation, you Haitian wannabee. Keep at it, buddy. You will easily become a Haitian by injection.

"Haitian women have the sweetest juice on the island and we all know that Dominican women just can't get enough of the Haitian Mandingo"

Keep thinking with your penis brain, assuming you are a guy. That Haitian sweet juice and mandingo milk are all laced with the AIDs virus. The higest HIV rate in the region in case you forgot.

To guillermone,

How dare you make such an inflamatory comment about the Haitian people. I am a proud Haitian woman and I am NOT HIV-positive.

And while Haiti is blighted by the highest HIV rate in the hemisphere, guess who is number 2......THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC! You all are not that far behind and the HIV rate is only increasing due to the sex toruism industry in the DR. Making ignorant comments like that surely will not help improve the situation in either country.

And can you Guess why we are number #2 and trying harder to make it to the number 1 spot?
Because of the Haitian invasion, HIV the number one export product to the DR from Haiti. As the rate of illegal Haitian immigrations to DR grows, so has there been an increase in the rate of HIV and aides related illnesses.I am sorry dear, but the FACTs are the FACTs and it can not be denied. So I am sorry for you. Therefore stating FACTS is not an ignorant comment, it is just hard and difficult for you to know and accept and to swallow.

Just check out any regions in the DR without Haitian residents 9assuming there are still any area left) and HIV is -0- percent. But go to the Bateyes and you will notice the difference.

By the way HaitienneNYC, don't take my comment so personal. i was not talking about you. i was talking about statistics. Mathematics, if you ever work ed with numbers it has no feelings.. I was just talking about cold hard facts, that is all and that is it. And even

HAITIENNE.

If I were you, I would not bother post here. While you may find a lot of reasonable and educated folks here, there are a lot of bigots and bigots-in-denial about the place.

Those that say " I have deep respect for the Haitian people" have lots of Hate-tinged posts under their belts. A couple of the guys that you debated with are far from haters and do not take their challenging you as such.

Incidentally, the issue that a lot of people have with the "black" label especially when it comes to people who are obvioulsy not black in color is a societal one.

A lot of "black" people reject the notion that they are mixed simply because they would have to acknowledge their rapist ancestors and a brutal part of "our" history. That is something some of us are not willing to embrace.

Herein lies the misunderstanding. Some societies (people) don't "mind" being mixed with European "blood", others abhor it.

LAUTARO.

I can understand why you get ticked-off here and let some posters have it.

There's some sh*t that I wish that I would allow myself the liberty to write like some people.

Posters like GUILLERMONE post statistics about a dreadful disease as if everyone that is inflicted with that disease is guilty of something.

Cancer= guilty
Diabetes= guilty
Sickle cell anemia= guilty... In your Book. F*cken lowlife coward!!!

I wonder if some of you are DESPICABLE humans or you just play one on the net?

How can anyone with 2" of forehead blame the hatians for HIV in DR?
When prostitution, drugs, unprotected sex (both heterosexuan and homosexual), is rampent. Not to mention my personal favorite. A public health system that has no safety procedures what so ever. Medical staff have no gloves, not enough equipment to properly sterilize them befor use, no sharps disposal equipment. Oh, and don't forget the Dr. who after getting paid, spends at least some of his pay with the previously mentioned prostitue. And these to just mention a few...

Written by: generoso, 14 Nov 2008 7:22 PM
From: United States, Arizona
Guys and girls please!
The Haitian retards are incapable of intelligent exchanges. They resort to name calling, racial and sexist remarks and talking about Dominican "working girls" in Puerto Prince making a living because the Haitian women are so ugly and stink a mile away that not even the Haitians want them!
The problem is that after eating all the dirt cookies mixed with mushrooms they are living in cloud
9 with the "cow dung effect" and they just talk rubbish and resort to below the belt racist or sexist
slander.
Do not waste your time with these vermin, they need to be fumigated or to be deshuké like they say and uprooted and ejected back to their ravished motherland where not a tree stands.
____________________________________________________________________________
HAITIENNE,

Just wanted to give you a little taste.

PS. There are some Haitian Haters here too.

To guillermone and rock bottom!

Thank you so much rockbottom! While Haitian migration may contribute to a limited extent to the AIDS crisis in the DR (in the same way that Dominican immigration to NYC has contributed slightly to the increase in the HIV rate in NYC), it is ridiculous to overlook the other factors such as: the hundreds of thousands of Europeans (some carrying HIV and other STI's) who come to the DR to take advantage of their prostitues, drug use (which is significantly higher in the DR than Haiti), unprotected hetero and homosexual sex, and unsafe medical enviornments.

That being said blaming the other side for the crisis surely won't solve anything and perhaps it's time to devote ourselves to finding real solutions to a very real problem.

And to kmnupe,

I was very aware of how some people (especially generoso) feel about Haitians, what's ironic is that after all was said and done, generoso himself was trying to solicit me for sex. How inappropriate.

Sorry HaitienneNYC, but Dominican immigration has not led to an increase in the HIV rate in the city. For those that come legally, a thorough medical exam is required in order to get the visa. If illegals would be a contributing factor, you better believe ICE would be out in full force.
Western Europeans (where much of DR's tourists come from) have very low rates of HIV so you can discard that argument as well.

That's just ridiculous, any credible report on HIV released in the last 2 decades will show significantly higher rates of HIV among minorities--including Dominicans--in NYC and other American cities. That's just common knowledge. The Dominican communities in the Bronx and Washington Heights are especially affected by the epidemics, it's tragic but that's the reality.

And while Western Europe has lower rates of HIV, that doesn't mean HIV is nonexistant and you can not possibly make the argument that those who would travel across an ocean for prostitution would not have at least a somewhat higher instance of HIV. People who frequent prositutes have been listed as an at risk group for carrying HIV for years. .Get over it. It's not a Haitian problem, it's a world issue and ALL people of color are more at risk, everywhere. Be real with yourself.

It's a world problem, but in some places the malady is definitely deadlier than in others. Sadly, Haiti finds itself on those very places, specially when the majority of the reports dealing with AIDS on the continent point to the fact that the majority of the infant population on that country is orphan of at least one of the parents due to the malady's effects. All this extent from the belief on a good part of the populace that if they have a lot of kids at least one of them will make the jump out of poverty (and carry the rest of the family in process), but also from the fact that on former times it was common for the peasant man to have children with different women in order to have field hands to tend to the family's land holdings (Haiti, contrary to what happened on the rest of LA/C, was a place where a good part of the peasantry was land holding, at least until the US invasion). Check this paper out: http://www.websteruniv.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm

Note: While the report was written on 1986, the belief out there is that conditions have actually worsened. So while some of the problems outlined in it might still be an issue, others might find themselves outdated, but not because they have changed for the better, mind you. While some people might find themselves irritated by it, it's no less the truth that this was written by perhaps one of the best foreign friends that Haiti might have had on its entire existence: Bob Corbett, which shows that this feeling from him is genuine, because friend is not only the person that is there to celebrate your victories, but he/she is also the one that pulls one's ears when he/she finds that something is very wrong with the way that one is carrying him/herself in life.

Lautaro
I read the paper and my opinion is that it is very factual and does offer some understanding on many
previously misunderstood customs such as the language and voo doo factors that have contributed
to the Haitian misery.
Thank you for posting it. As I said many times before in many sometimes not so flowery or nice words
through my postings, the human race worst enemies and to be more focused the Dominican-Haitian
problems are based on not enough information or education. But as the paper confirms, it is nearly impossible to conduct massive education goals in the French language alone. More so with the amount of poverty in Haiti at present. I always said that children's attention span and focus in school increases if their stomach is full, not before. So we must eliminate hunger first and then offer education, and not bypass the first step.
Again and as I said before the tremendous burden of the Haitian debt payments to the French
effectively was the "coup de grace" to

Cont
bury any hopes of Haitian economic survival and furthermore enslaved it for generations to come.
I thank you for sharing this site with us and commend you in your always enlightening posts that
serve to educate those of us that are always hungry for information so we can understand each other better and live in harmony and not in constant strife, war and chaos.

"The Dominican communities in the Bronx and Washington Heights are especially affected by the epidemics, it's tragic but that's the reality"

Please provide the link to the research report that states this, specifically in the Bronx where Dominicans have not always been the largest minority group. I've lived close to these areas my entire life and for some odd reason I have a hunch that you're just throwing Dominicans in there to try to make your invalid point.

I am fully aware that HIV exists in western Europe, but also keep in mind that they already have higher levels of education, which means that if they are frequenting prostitutes they are probably using protection (especially knowing that they're in a third world country).

The Haitians again.
Trying to push down our throats Afrocentrics racial ideologies.
Why is it they want us so badly to agree that we Dominicans are all of African descendants?

It is none of their business or any body's business if we Dominicans want to identify ourselves with Europeans ancestry. What is their Haitian problem? They want to force us to identify our selves with only Haitian decent. Now, for example, how can my childhood friend (from a small campo in el cibao) identify herself with Haitian lineage when all her family from both sides, 3 generations was all Spanish, fair skin looking, no blacks members at all?
Haitians should re-direct their longing and pushing attitudes to the afro-American community. Haitians should tell them to stick to their ancestry looks by:
-No straightening their hair or use hair extensions, Oh boy Miss Obama, Biance, and Diana, I really can picture them with their real and natural Haitian hair. Al Sharpton as well.
Cont....

Continuation,
-For fotos shooting, no Photoshop techniques to lighten up their skins, really color only. Make up should not be used to make African nose look thinner, that is anti-African.
-And………
It is none of your business how we recognize our ancestry. Live and let live.

HaitienneNYC You lack knowledge about the Dominican people, our culture and ancestry. It is most likely you have never been to the DR and if you did go, either just stay in a resort or went to a Haitian enclave in Sto Dgo. What little you know, probably got it by hanging around and talking to a few Dominicans in Washington Hgts. Kind of like how a lot of people first learn about sex, the info you get from friends is usually not accurate and full of fallacies. You have said so many things without backup to support your statements. I will not deny that some of what you said may be valid, but in most instances is made up of half-truths. You keep on insisting that DR is a black country like Haiti. WELL WE ARE NOT A BLACK COUNTRY. PLEASE GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. Yet Haiti is definitely 95% BLACK. Your people are direct descendants of black African slaves, no ifs, ands or buts. Only 1% is white European and the remainder 4% is made up of a ruling mulato elite.

(conti) The DR is predominately a multi-ethnic and multi-racial country that for generations has evolved into a group of people unable to define their race at least in the traditional way. Our uniqueness is such that we are the only country in the world (except for Brazil) with such mixture that we can only idenfify ourselves as Dominicans, plain and simple. There is no other nation with this particularity. However, society forces us to to label ourselves or wants to place us in a particular racial group. But in most cases that can not be possible. Dominicans were at first a mixture of white european, black Africans and Taino Indians. However, through the ages that make-up has long been altered. Other ingredients were added to the pot as a consequence of events in history. We had a migration of Lebanese, Syrians, Palestians, Chinese, Japanese, German Jews, Italians, Portugese, Irish, Corsicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Egyptians, Morrocans and Hungarians, etc. We are a unique people.

Just got back from DR, spent most of my Chritmas Holidays in the campos of the Cibao region of which to me is the most authentic, traditional and loyal to true Dominican Culture. For the first time, I visited and spent a lot of time in small towns, rural communities and municipalities in and around Santiago The people I met could trace their ancestry back for at least 4 generations and were decendants of the first settlers when the DR first became a Republic. I was amazed at the number of blonde, light colored eye Dominicans. Met so many faired skin people who did not show a trace of colored blood in their body. I went to a party at the Centro Español in Santiago and I could not detect a black or mulato face among the crowd. The same thing happened, when I visited the Centro de Recreo another social club in santiago. I went to Jarabacoa, Constanza, Moca and La Vega and most of the faces I saw were of people with predominately white-european features. We are not a black country

A fact that can be proven when you take into account the fact that the Cibao is the most populated region of the country, holding a 60% of the country's population on its bossom, guillermone. The only part of that region that holds a lot of afrodescendancy is Samana, and this is slowly but steadily changing with the french expat community that is living and growing over there, specially on Las Terrenas.

Guillermone! you're back!!

"Just got back from DR, spent most of my Chritmas Holidays in the campos of the Cibao region of which to me is the most authentic, traditional and loyal to true Dominican Culture."

You can say that again.

Yes, Popo baby.....I am back !!!

Yes, cibaeño75-Let's start a movement. I propose that The Cibao region should become an independent and autonomous state. La Republica dei Cibao-Somos 100% Cibaeños y Aguiluchos !!!

"Yes, cibaeño75-Let's start a movement. I propose that The Cibao region should become an independent and autonomous state. La Republica dei Cibao-Somos 100% Cibaeños y Aguiluchos !!!"

I'll tell you what, though, its my humble opinion that had the Revolution of 1857 been succesful before Santana was called into the picture Santiago might very well be the capital today and the late 19th century would've been a lot rosier for the nation as a whole.

cibaeño75
Santiago should have been the capital, no question about that.
Santiago and surrounding areas have been the birthplace of many Dominican presidents. I will name just a few late ones: Juan Bosch (La Vega), Joaquin Balaguer,
Antonio Guzman, Salvador Jorge Blanco, Hipolito Mejia.
But let's stop this "aryan" presumptions about how white our skin is. We are of mixed race and should be proud of the fact. Like guillermone already mentioned we have proven Taino ancestry, Black African (nothing to be ashamed of), and European blood. Later you can add Lebanese, Chinese, Italian, German Jew and others.
Be proud of the fact we are a "potpourri" of different races.

AMEN BROTHER, I agree 100% and a beautiful mixture we are indeed !!!

About the our Taino heritage, I always disagreed with the mainstream thought that they were exterminated without a trace and that we Dominicans could not make a claim to that ancestry. But thanks to DNA testing all doubts have now been cleared. When I lived in the DR, it was not uncommon for me to bump into Dominicans that looked like many of the native indians you see recreated and displayed behind museums windows. It was unbelievable how repeatedly I saw many of our people with copper brown color skin, high cheek bones, long jet black straight hair and slanted eyes. I would always ask them if they were Dominicans and they would look at me kind of strange after the question. Like, "what are you talking about." The bachata singer Andy Andy, though he is light skin, if you look closely, has many taino features. I believe he is from Azua that at one time was a remote area, the isolation probably made Indian blood lines and lineage remain pure before the DR melting pot began to emerged