trying to change a way of life.......good luck

GC,

You are correct about that.-Good luck

Stand by the door at any casino and you will come to realize that the population is armed to the teeth. WHY?

This "test" is just another excuse to try to disarm the decent, law abiding citizen that chooses to
protect himself due to the corruption and inability of authorities to adequately protect the citizenry.
Although I agree that guns should not be normally displayed in public as it is done now, a custom
that comes from way back, specially in the country side and it is a custom of "respect".
In the USA as an example a permit to carry a concealed weapon is basically that, you can carry the
weapon on your body but it MUST be concealed, that is why is called "concealed weapon permit".
This is done to avoid unnecessary display of weaponry that causes more accidents and gun thefts by criminals.
Interior and police minister will create a storm in a glass by his usual autocratic rules that do not take into account the needs of the law abiding citizen that are not offered the protection against the criminal elements that are in control of the DR specially at night time and in the barrios.

Take the guns off the streets!!!

Chauncey,

I am disappointed in you, I was expecting you to quote your hero Charlton "Moses" Heston "From My Cold Dead Hands."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ju4Gla2odw

DOminican republic is relatively safe cause everyone knows everyone is armed. Taking this law in to effect is a bad idea. Even the Americans know the importance of bearing arms. It's in their constitution and for good reason.

The article states"66 violent deaths" what is not clear is if they were self defense or not and if so how many. Do those numbers account for the innocent kids killed by police for riding bicycles or playing basketball too close to a demonstration?Legal guns in the hands of honest citizens is a check and balance against inept police and criminals, sorry to be redundent. What will be the deterrent to keep the thugs from rampant robberies during this holiday season and beyond. In effect the government has given a license to steal to the criminals. I would like to see an article by DT in January showing statistics of how many robberies and violent deaths of law abiding citizens took place during this ban. The government is reducing the populace to sheep in a country overrun with wolves.

Lie-onel is not concerned with the guns in the hands of petty criminals.

Rather, his worry are the guns in the hands of the law abiding citizenry, that may someday have to use them to get his dictatorship off their backs.

Dominican PLD democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Guess who the sheep are?

In the USA they say "If you take the guns from the people, only the criminals will have guns"

The DOM REP problem is that the criminals with those guns are in , The Army, Navy, Air Force and Police.

Anyone see that Bostaon Legal, Shatner Gun Control episode. The bad guy is with Crime Watch, you get to watch him do the crime. www.youtube.com GUN CONTROL A LA DENNY CRANE.

The article says 66 PERCENT, that is about 1,300 per year if I recall that statistics from last year that people on this forum were happy to comment about when the report came out.

Those of you have been here for any length of time have seen the incidents involving guns. Me, personally maybe 30 or more that I can think of...and how many of those have been a gun owner legitimately defending themselves? Again, in my experience, zero.

I have watched several shoot outs in front of clubs. Most of the incendents I have seen are irate asshole drivers threatening other asshole drivers. Off duty miitary assholes and a few drunken spouses. Again, most of what I see is traffic related and none is self defense.

What Alemeda is saying is legit. He is saying there is a difference between having the gun and walking around town with it down yur pants. One has to think about it from an enforcement perspective, if I am a police officer and I see your gun, you are not using it right !

Here it is the yellow journalism ala Randolph Hearst.

AM: EMERGENCIA NACIONAL

http://www.diariolibre.com/noticias_det.php?id=176864

Have your friends in the press whip up the fear, Declare a National Emmergency and your down the slippery slop to dictatorship.

The Shock Doctrine at work:

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin

I never thought I would end up being the one on the "liberal" side of a gun toting debate !

Texas?!? Do you have anything to say?

It's better in my humble opinion to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Both sides of this debate have valid points................however, I am against gun control because at first your right to legally carry in the streets is taken away. Once they are successful with that you can rest assured they will be coming to your homes after that. GUN CONTROL IS HAVING A GOOD AIM!!!

josean:
At a boy, good threads. Specially the "Ben Hur" one.
My opinion of you is starting to change for the better.

Guys remember: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Australia enacted a total bans of guns recently and the figures speak for themselves:
over 43% rise in murders and violent crimes in just one year.
With gun ownership there comes a responsibility as well, not to display the gun needlessly to
others, wear it if you must well concealed as not to intimidate others, know how to use it with utmost proficiency. In our case we display guns as a decoration and flaunt them, we intimidate others with their unnecessary public display and we are very seldom proficient in their use.
Still these caveats can be corrected without necessarily installing a ban that will only benefit the criminal elements and the corrupt law enforcers that are salivating for the opportunity to "confiscate" your legal permit weapon so they can have them for their personal collection.

Maldito,

I do not have a carry permit but my neighbor does, but I do own a pistol. You have to attend all sorts of training etc. etc., I agree that every person who wants to carry should not. Some people have just too short of a fuse to have a pistol on their person. Add a few Presidentes or a couple of Brugals to the mix and it quickly becomes a mess.

For the record; my roots are New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho, and Alaska. I kill Moose, "dem's good hunting" (that is colloquial for "they are good sport to hunt" that is not meant to read "Democrats are good hunting" although it might be worth a try too.) I just don't shoot them from helicopters like our esteemed governor.

I am a big supporter of the 2nd Amendment in the US and, by the way, of the interpretation of that Amendment that allows for the individual's right as a private citizen and against the neo-liberal interpretation that the amendment was meant only for organized government sanctioned militia (which is just a backdoor attempt to usurp the 2nd Amendment by post-Clintonian democrats)

But the point is that drunked up yokels with pistols is exactly what makes both Santo Domingo and rural Oregon a lousy weekend place

malditogringo:
When Tombstone was cleaned up by the anti wearing gun laws of he Earp brothers it was just
a matter of time when the saying: absolute power corrupts came into being. Thus after a while the Earps and their vigilante gang were the only corrupt lawmen with badges with any real firepower.
Same thing in DR. you witness a lot of security guards displaying sawed off shotguns and the military and police of course displaying all kinds of weapons including M-16's, Ak's, Galil's, and so forth.
But they display them "as a deterrent" to real crime, sort of like a scarecrow performs.
According to my experience most Dominicans who do carry guns are not proficient in their use,
or in plain English can't hit the side of a barn if their life depended on it! So that by itself does make them dangerous. So I am ambivalent regarding the carry ban, because I suspect that a time will come like when Trujillo took power in 1930 that all guns in civilian hands are outlawed and only the

chosen few government bureaucrats and military have the right to bear arms.
That really scares me.
I remember during Trujillo's reign even his though cronies were allowed to have guns and the military but a very strict control on ammunition was exercised.
I don't like gun laws, they are against basic human democratic liberties and conquests.
This is why we in the USA have never had a coup de etat or a military intervention in civilian
government, because next day they would have been a very pissed off group of citizens
(about 80 million as of lately) with guns demanding to know what the hell is going on!

This measure should scare people!! Consider that the constitution is undergoing an overhaul, to what end we do not know.......but know this, that dissenters can and will be shot dead in the street by the military/police for firearms infractions. The stage is being set here for a president and his drug dealing regime to stay in power indefintely!! I could be wrong and I hope that I am, but the writing is on the wall. Dominicans stay alert...........paranoia breeds safety!!! #1 Trujillo and his right hand man was Balaguer, #2 Balaguer and his right hand man was Fernandez ! Think about it................history always repeats itself!! Once again, just my opinion. BTW I was in the arms business for 20 years, a pistol smith with only 6 peers in the world, a founding member of the NROI and invited to the Worldshoot for 11 years, instituted IPSC shooting in my state to replace the archaic PPC and if you wanted to go to the nationals, my signature was required. Education is the solution!

The best education is accomplished by the business end of a Sig Sauer Equinox with a threaded barrel and a nice can at the end.
You know what I mean?
Once I had a very pissed off drunk out of his mind (or who knows what on) in the road to San Pedro de Macoris person pull a pistola
on me because I gently tapped his pick up truck with my SUV.
In a split second his pistola was in my hands which I quickly and expediently took apart and threw the pieces all over an empty lot.
That guy will not be pulling his pistola so freely in the future to just anybody. LOL.

Generoso; don't you feel bad impeding "drunk out of his mind guy's" right?

I thought I was a gun advocate and here I find myself in the middle of the Caribbean NRA club and I feel like a granola crunching pseudo nuevo liberal moma's boy arts major that just threw himself in front of the Sara Palin caravan. Freak! Glad I never told any of you guys that I live in a big pink house on Av. Mexico...Oooh, darn...gave it away....

big pink house in Ave. Mexico...huummmm
that makes us neighbors then!

Generoso...I just noticed where you are writing from. In the case that you work for that organization then you know way more about who is f$#%ing who and who is stealing what than any of us.

I was watching "El Nuncio" introduce a speaker the other day and I could not help but think...who does he think he is kidding? I hope not God...this guy eats lunch with these people and drinks wine with these people. So do I and I know the bullshit they talk about. I know that they know who steals what from who etc...all this bulls!77 in the press is just a ruse for the people.

But what gets me is if I know what is going on but can't say anything for fear of my life....how is it that the representative of the Pope either knows nothing or says nothing!?!?

Bless you my son, now you are finally beginning to understand......
Our blessed Nuncio special envoy to the DR did object to the lengthy power outages that keep
the Nunciatura in the dark and was unable to dispense air conditioned mass to the needy
politicians that visited and were in so much need of cool comfort to expunge their sins.
The special sacrament and wine ritual was not done either because the temperature rose so
much because of the infidel power shortage that it could not be dispensed at the proper temperature.
Do not fear for your life because though is protected and in good hands of the Holy See.
Our dear pope's rep is alert and watching but has his hands tied because he can't see in the dark.
Let us pray that sooner rather than later all sins will be forgiven and the power will return.
Amen.

Taking guns away from law-biding people is not the solution. Criminals are going to get guns anyway. Is the DR turning into an authoritarian Stalinist state?!!

Edward - "Is the DR turning into an authoritarian Stalinist state?!!"

Hmm, good idea. I hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it Edward that just MIGHT work. I will make that suggetion at our next masons meeting and see what my brothers say.

MalditoGringo:
any openings left at the masons?
I need a job!

generoso, the Masonic lodge in Santo Domingo has been advertising for new recruits either in the DT classifieds or DR1 classifieds, I don't recall which one! Just in case you are serious about your inquiry. Then again maybe you guys are talking about laying bricks and I'm off base!! Been there before and am sure I will be again..........LOL

domericano:
do they have any job openings?
My CV is as long as the Dead Sea scrolls!

generoso, after reading your postings and the depth of them I can just imagine what your CV reads like!! I've been around the block a few times myself................different block, different neighborhood as well, but I too have worn many hats. Keep up the good work!!

domericano:
If you like Latin American art the best art auction that only happens once a year and they have a lot of real art and sculpture bargains is coming up November 25 TH at the Melia Santo Domingo, Hotel, 8PM (809-774-1703)
Bring some cash or plastic as there will be a lot of good opportunities for the investor and collector.
Don't let the Banco Central folks or the aduana and museum hounds steal your bargains!

Generoso, I appreciate art in all it's forms!! Thank you very much for the lead and I will be there sin plastica!! I'm a cash kinda guy and only buy what I can afford. I don't want to leave my son with a legacy of debt and am trying very hard to assure he has a future either here or the US.

generoso, i loved that "scarecrow" reference. i am rolling on the ground in laughter. i have nothing to opine on this issue. it is far too cantankerous for my tastes.

Just a curious thought...how many of you advocates of liberal (liberal in its dictionary meaning) gun carry laws in the DR are also people who don't think the DR should be shooting down planes?

Again, just curious because, isn't the DR owning 8 super tucanos but not being able to shoot anything out of the sky with them kind of like allowing people a gun possession permit but not a carry permit?!?

Besides that, it just wouldn't be much fun to have a super tucano and not get to shoot anything down with it!

If they don't reverse the ruling not-allowing them to shoot down they might as well just return the planes for a bag of pucks.

MalditoGringo:
The US is lobbying against the DR shoot down law being passed.
This policy has many reasons:
1.Legal ramifications because the DR might shoot down a civilian plane carrying missionaries (like what happened in Peru a few years back) and the US will get the blame because of their radar warning systems.
2. DR has always been considered in the USA "security zone area" and the US still considers the DR airspace as their own.
3. Possible conflict with US forces over shoot down doctrine.
4. The US gives very little support to the DR for drug interdiction purposes (US$2 million) and the reasons it gives other countries like Colombia for example $40 billion or so is that the Colombian conflict is not only drug related but has a political motive since the guerrillas have an political-ideological conflict with the USA as well. By the looks of it the US is following doctrine to continue treating the DR as a irresponsible teenager that can't have the keys to daddy's car.

it is simpler than that , generoso. the USA does not want some guy from Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard going accidentally off course while on his caribbean golf jaunt, and being shot down by some cowboy pilot, killing his family. it is no different than the issue regarding nuclear electricity generation here. the USA will lobby the IAEA to disbar the DR from obtaining nuclear reactors; Puerto Rico is just too close by, in the event of a chernobyl style meltdown.

What is it Dread ? you dont think Dominicans are going to do a great job with a nuclear reactor.....Dont hold back

actually, GC, I do not. not unless it is built here by some guy called Riferito.

Dread:
I strongly disagree. Dominican pilots are excellent and many ex-Air Force pilots have gone on to work with US airlines and other foreign governments civilian airlines.
DR airspace is autonomous and so should be the DR's right to protect against any and all foreign
intruders that VIOLATE our airspace.
The DR has to be responsible in it's actions and the shoot down doctrine should be very strictly
contained and regulated by orders from the President, the chief of the DR armed forces or the chief of the Air force in that order.
We are not kids and should not be treated as such. Some radio commentators are saying that this
is just part of the conspiracy theories to discredit the Dominican armed forces to justify their future
disbandment to help the Dominican-Haitian unification efforts, and that may be a case as well.
I do not partake in conspiracy theories but I also believe that we are a sovereign country that fought side by side with the US in the recent Iraqui war.

And deserve the right to protect our skies with a shoot down policy like other governments have in Latin America that have not been objected to by the US.

with all due respect generoso, GC, dread....we already had this debate a few weeks ago.

All I asked was a simple question; are there people on this forum who think that people should be allowed to carry guns (not just possess them) who also think that the DR as a country should not allow itself to shoot planes out of the sky that it seas as a threat?

I was just curious.

generoso, that is some pretty tough talk which i do not think the US state department cares to hear. there have been accidental shootdowns in other parts of latin america, one killing nuns, and i do not think that the USA was amused. you are free to invoke all kinds of talk about violation of sovereign airspace, but you better hope that signals do not get crossed and we shoot down the six seater Beechcraft of some US Senator who lost contact because of an electronic malfunction in his communication system, wasting him, his wife, and four businessmen from Oklahoma!!

I do not understand.....If you are not supposed to shoot someone on the ground unless your life is threatened ......how can law enforcement justify it in the sky ?

you all forget the best one ....Fidel shooting down the Cessna with a Mig over international waters in front of a cruise ship.....for dropping pamphlets

GC, GREAT QUESTION. by the way, i see your frequent flyer miles are piling up. generoso and Maldito; this is like the nuclear issue. it is a matter of perception. the most stringent objector will be the USA, for reasons i already adumbrated. if we tell them to kiss our butts, we are going ahead anyway, i can assure you that they will retaliate in very unpleasant ways!

GC, please; you are not in La Perla. not even cops go there!

sure the cops go there .....in brigade force swat teams

and i guess you would have us believe that you are in an outdoor cafe as we speak, casually sipping on some Pilon with the neighborhood denizens? yeah, right!!

Dread:
What unpleasant ways, removing the $2 million limosna in aid the US gives us? The incident you mentioned was in Peru with US missionaries. Shit does happen.
The other fact is that Haiti is a failed drug state and we are becoming one unless we start enforcing the skies with some real deterrents that will make the drug lords think twice about
cruising through the DR we all the impunity in the world.
The Tucano's are here in a few months and soon there will be a new sheriff in town to straighten things out.
MalditoGringo: To answer your question. I believe that DR carry laws should be like in the states.
You have to take and pass a test in writing, be free of felonies and go to the range and practice.
I also believe that the DR should have the autonomous right as a sovereign nation to shoot down any aircraft that violates the DR airspace, just like the US, Colombia and numerous other countries do.

are you kidding me, generoso? do you really believe that all they would do is to curtail aid? if you do, then you do not understand how Uncle Sam works. let me just bring you up to speed a little. how about eradicating the immigration quota? hmmm...that is just for starters. they wont say they did it, but people who apply for visas just would not get replies for ten years. all of a sudden, no IMF or World Bank loans...hmmm...no technology transfers...how about a little tourism blacklist....lets see.. there are certain geopolitical realities in this world. when you are a developing country of 9 million people, you cannot tell uncle sam to go piss up a rope; he does not like it, and, sadly, can, and will, retaliate in ways you will not like!!!

welcome to Mr Rogers neighborhood http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxCFkcr5Z2U&feature=related

by the way, generoso, on the subject of aircraft, i am a complete know nothing. but, in this forum, i take my informational cues from TEXAS BILL, the foremost authority we have on the subject. he says that the things will be completely ineffectual in dealing with incoming drug planes under most conditions. i have no reason to doubt him, so i have my doubts about them, anyway.

dread:
The DR has been the best friend and ally the USA has ever had in LA and none of the terrible talk
and measures will EVER come into being, there is just too much at stake.
Do you know how many American citizens are living in the DR? Take a guess.
In your most creative mind you are fabricating all these fantasies of a retaliation that will not ever come into being.
When George Bush asked the Dominican army to provide a contingent to fight side by side with the US in Iraq, what was our answer? I tell you it was: When and where you want them?
They were shipped to a town near Falluja were some of the worst fighting happened.
Anyway we are talking about intangibles here or a situation that hasn't happened and probably never will, we are just speculating.

you missed a tete a tete I had with my good friend from texas a while ago.

enjoy your evening. and remember, in the political world, it is always "what have you done for me lately" at one time, Bin Laden was an american ally, too. so was Ho Chi Minh . and Fidel. shall i continue? i guess not, as i am sure you get the picture!!

it better be Malbec its the only thing they do well and I thought your girl friend was at the seminar for the deputies in Bavaro

is she going to help you blow out the candles old timer

The US is not going to cut off aid or restrict the immigration quota if the DR decides to shoot down nuns in cesnas. They are going to voice their concerns and that is it....THAT is how the US works.

P.S. Super Tucanos and all the other toys are not how you win the war against drugs and the US is happy to let the DR try like that because they are happy to let the war on drugs trickle on.

You really want to end the war on drugs you send about a dozen forensic auditors to Maimi with carte blanche....but then that would cause some inconveniences so it is better to just blame the problem on banana republics with turbo props.

hey, Maldito, some of the work of forensic auditors would lead them right back here, don't you think?

=
Top 10 reasons a gun is favored over a woman....


#10. You can trade an old 44 for a new 22.

# 9. You can keep one gun at home and have another for when
you're on the road.

# 8. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he will probably
let you try it out a few times.

# 7. Your primary gun doesn't mind if you keep another gun for a backup.

# 6. Your gun will stay with you even if you run out of ammo.

# 5. A gun doesn't take up a lot of closet space.

# 4. Guns function normally every day of the month.

# 3. A gun doesn't ask , 'Do these new grips make me look fat?'

# 2. A gun doesn't mind if you go to sleep after you use it.

And the number one reason a gun is f avored over a woman....

# 1. YOU CAN BUY A SILENCER FOR A GUN

Basta:
Thanks for the thread, It is the best I have read in many moons.
I am cut and pasting it and sending it to all my gun nut friends.
Bless,

GC:
it is Malbec and it is the only thing the Argents do well.
Yes my girlfriend was at the seminar but she got paid already and came home to Daddy.LOL.
She will help me blow out the one and only candle!

Ha, ha very funny BASTA - nothing will ever compare to women, we are a work of art created by God to keep bringing life and love into the world :-)

Though I will say, I don't agree with the ban, there's just too much crime in DR and citizens need something to defend themselves with, anytime, anywhere.

I do believe in conspiracy theories ("cuando el rio suena agua lleva")
Does anybody know who's paying Mr. Almeyda? His support for an open border and disarming the population are downright suspicious.

DominicanChic:
The voice of reason has echoed in your comments.
I too agree that women since they are the givers of life out to be given a chance to run things,
mainly governments since the men have made such a lousy mess so far.
You girls had: Indira Gandhi in India, Golda Meir in Israel, Iron Lady Thatcher in Britain and Queen Elizabeth, Evita and the present ruler of Argentina, Germany, USA we could have had Hillary in the States
but it wasn't her time.
I am all for women in power, they smell and look better than men anyway!