New rule!!!!!


Any and all convicted felons have the right to choose when they will turn themselves in. And to set conditions on to wich he'll do so.

and, rockbottom, if the jail is not to their liking, they will simply decline the prison sentence and seek their entertainment elsewhere.

"and argued that until the court specifies in which correctional facility they’ll serve time, his clients won’t turn themselves in."

Even at this point there arrogance is incredible. I say sends some guards to bring them back shackled and be done with it.

They probably cannot integrate too well some changes affecting Dominican society, that is the end of impunity for the filthy rich crooks.

My only hope is they won't get too depressed and have to start psychiatric treatments in a private health clinic like their colleague Vivian.

The judge should check out this link so they can come to an agreement:

http://www.jailcells.com/?gclid=CMnjhrjOhJcCFRJuxwodaybSdQ

and, cibaeno, tack on a few years to the sentence for contempt of court.

The judge should have locked the lawyer up for contempt for presenting this argument, and for aiding and abetting if the lawyers don't disclose whereabouts o the crooks.

Wait! As a friend of mine who's name we will not mention would say.... Did he use the "Metro to Scape???

These convicted felons are from the "creme de la creme" of Dominican society and I seriously doubt that they are willing, ready and able to go to jail.
Even though Ramoncito (Baninter) and Luis Alvarez Renta are doing time in Najayo jail, they did equip and furnish the jail with the latest furniture, beds, TV's, satellite dishes, air conditioners, power generators, kitchens and all the conveniences of "home".
I also heard from a "chismosa" the big Christmas parties that they are planning with plenty of catered food and liquor for all.
These two ex-bankers have probably crossed the border into Haiti and are enjoying a margarita in the beach in St. Barth's, thumbing their noses at us the deflowered consumer idiots that get ripped off time and time again by government, military, and private enterprise.
They should just start handing out preparation H when you enter the island to visit.

I love this country, "El Pais de las Maravillas!". It is like Alice in Wonderland, go figure. I don't think St Barts would accept these turds.

They are in Miami, Brickell Ave.to be exact, buying Condos. There is a Fire Sale ongoing!

Lock up the LAWYERS....................

yeah, gmiller? and leave the judges free? i say lock up everyone remotely connected to the "justice" system.

gmiller261
I agree. In the states the judge would have put the lawyers in jail with a "How Dare You give orders or try to change the law to accommodate your client". And declare the felons fugitive and issue an arrest warrant with new charges.
This mockery of the law only happens here in DR. I strongly suspect they are long gone in their
yachts to another island with less heat after them. These guys could care less and will just wait things out until the next election and then back the opposition party with the best chances to win and then gain a pardon or suspended sentence. It's all a big game to them and only the poor consumers
get the shaft.

i can assure you that in the USA a most stringent bench warrant would have been issued for their summary arrest.

dread it is nice to see you showing a little pride in your country USA

wait till tomorrow, then hear me cuss!

Probably they forgot their appointments. Just send them an email to remind them.

touche, ZonaDominicana. or, as Steve Martin said when he was asked by the IRS why he had not filed a tax return " I FORGOT"

One word 'Guantanamo ' before it becomes an amusement park..

Their "white collar" terror has destroyed as many lives as the extremeists..

They failed to show up becuase their jail cells are not yet outfitted with anemities as was escobar's.

Why so up to jail or prison if you can easily buy the president an stay free.

eradicatecorruption
you might have said that in jest but it makes a lot of sense with one correction:
"They failed to show up becuase their jail cells are not yet outfitted with anemities as were Ramoncito's and Luis Alvarez Renta"

Zona:
dread: in my brief experience studying US courts I find that the unequivocally best response hands down is :
Your honor I can't remember!
Much better than using the fifth.

" to the best of my recollection " also works ask Bubba Clinton

generoso, i think the quote reads something like " your honor, i do not recall".

Dread remembers vividly the words " Will the Defendant please rise "

Prior to his learning a skill making license plates.........

that is when i said" your honor, i do not recall how to rise".

you are lucky you did not get " the Chair "

as a matter of fact, for some of these guys in question, the Chair would be a matter of leniency.

hear ye hear ye!
This is one case when people do miss the Trujillo regime.
I remember some bandits assaulted a bank in Santiago during Trujillo's last years and they were quickly caught by the police,
then "they tried to escape" and were summarily shot and killed.
Since then we have had " la ley de fuga" applied to discretionary criminals but never these influential and powerful white collar bandits.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Things are sure looking more like MIami then the good ole DR..

As of late...

There been executional style hits...

Drug rip-offs ....Cops shooting cops...Nothing like trhe good ole days of just ripping off the people...

Now Mr. Diaz argues that until the court specifies in which correctional facility his client will serve time at, his clients won’t turn themselves.

What the hell... I can understand his point....Bank fruad is a much cleaner crime....

Why should his poor client have to deal with a bunch crack heads trying to kill each other..

See....just like Miami

Generoso,
I have to agree with you, one has to ask Why were they out on bail to begin with, these men are no different then those who rob you in the Streets with a gun......But these are worst they gain your trust then rob you. WHERE IS JUSTICE and we wonder why crime is so high do People in the Dominican Gov. realize what effect this may / will have on future investors and investments.
I say restore the power of the Courts, Jail the Lawyers and exchange them for the convicted prisoners then double there sentence then place them in with the general population in a prison by the Courts choice .

8 years for stealing US 900 million dollars! crime pays in the Dominican Republic. They would have gotten at least 20 years in the USA. If a lawyer tried to pull that kind of stunt before a US Federal judge, he would have been arrested for contempt of court.

caprice 240k, you must remember that the laws which apply in countries such as the DR are intended to protect the rich, and their property. it is a law which presupposes that wealthy , influencial people are incapable of the depravity that merits long, punitive sentences; that is the province of the poor, the plebes. so, the law is willing to send a limpiabota to jail for a year for stealing 500 pesos, but a criminal type who embezzles 900 million is just a good , decent , upstanding citizen, from a prominent family, who made a small mistake. he must be punished to show the country that justice is blind, but let us not be too hard on him.

This is absolutely increadible!! an outrage...but is a perfect example of the ineffective legal (HA) system that exists in the Dominican Republic. What a joke! No wonder they are fleeing by the boat loads!

tejano
It does piss you off tejano doesn't it?
This is lawyers paradise, the other Baninter swindlers were out for many years because of legalese
technicalities and delay tactics.
One woman has refused to go to the slammer with the "poor health" excuse and the complacent judges have abided by her obviously fraudulent comedy and let her stay in a "clinic" due to her
intolerance to being incarcerated with other "common" prisoners.
Justice in DR is just a mockery and only for the persons that can not afford fancy high priced lawyers.

"This is one case when people do miss the Trujillo regime.
I remember some bandits assaulted a bank in Santiago during Trujillo's last years and they were quickly caught by the police,
then "they tried to escape" and were summarily shot and killed."

Generoso, you are absulutely correct. They need a Trujillo to bring back a repect for the law (or fear of the regime). Currently they have a gutless, spinless leader who sacrifices the needs of his OWN PEOPLE for his and his cronies comfort. The Navy is full of Drug dealers but he recently praised the Navy leadership. How can it be that the Director of the Navy and the top leadership still have a job when the Navy is more of a drug trafficking organization than a respected armed service. Fernandez' legacy will be turning the Dominican Republic into a lawless narcotic state isolated unto itself and left in the dirt by Chavez and his Iranian buddies.

Invest in yolas!!

tejano, your reference to the remedies of the Trujillo era misses the point, to some degree. the episode you describe is one involving violent , street level crime. i am not so sure that the current government would not have dealt with it in a similarly summary fashion. the gravamen of the issue is the reluctance of the Dominican legal system to dispense corrective punishment to the rich and well connected, those who feature prominently on the pages of the SOCIALS section of listin diario on Sundays. you know, the people with the hyphenated surnames which you never heard of before!

Dreadlocks,
Your correct in the differentiation of the types of crimes and methods of dealing (or not) with them. I agree that the current gov't would have reacted in the same way in the violent incident described but for different reasons. They would shoot the escapees to protect the corrupt official who allowed them to escape vice sending a strong msg to criminals. The government is so out of control in the DR is it hard to believe and sad. It is an absolute free for all with out of control spending, in your face corruption and blatant disregard for the rule of law and disrespect for the people they supposedly represent. I am surpriesed the people put up with it.
.

tejano, the government acts with impunity because there are no remedies for their excesses. it is all a gang of untouchables. Bill Clinton got impeached for 'lying" about a tryst with an intern. Eliot Spitzer is gone from the political radar, for accessing the favors of ladies of easy virtue. every day, in the USA, some news release surfaces about some senator or congressman , or mayor, being indicted for graft. in the DR, who is there to challenge these people? there is no such thing as a functional attorney general, to bring cases on behalf of the people, against the government. there is no real separation between the judiciary, the executive branch, and the church, even. the fact that we have participatory elections should not be confused with democracy.

everybody recognizes the problem, but are unwilling to do anything. what is the solution?

there is no solution, i am afraid. it is the nature of the social institutions left over from colonial times. only a completely new population will remove these vestiges of colonial rule

tejano:
dread:
Also you have to understand one more thing, there is no such thing as the death penalty in DR and there is strong opposition to it, with just cause, mainly to protect the innocent found guilty.
I would venture to speculate that change will be a slow process involving new generations and fresh thinking as corruption and graft as well as the conferring of impunity is a hereditary "non verbal agreement" between parties that take office and every four years feed us the same empty promises that never materialize.
Democracy is a very sophisticated system that has to be exercised by well informed and participatory voters, that my friend we don't have in DR with such high levels of "functional illiteracy" (which means that I can sign my name and read and write slowly but can not comprehend or apply logic to what I am reading).
A benevolent alternating dictatorship maybe would better suit us or to be colonized and ruled by a
foreign power.( I am going to be badly beaten now

generoso, you will not be beaten by me for those sentiments; they are at least an alternative to be ventilated. but it is not realistic to believe that absent some drastic change, we will somehow evolve into a country which is not plagued by these maladies. culture is hereditary; the only thing you can learn is that which you are taught. people who live in a society which is existentially corrupt will find themselves perpetuating it, because they know nothing else. the occasional visionary and moral person might want to change things, but to no avail. ever so often , posters opine that Miguel Cocco should run for president, because of his ostensible honesty. maybe he should be dictator, and inflict his vision, forcibly, on the society. because, if he aspires to rule in a democratic fashion, he will simply be overpowered by the will of the hoodlums.

and, generoso, kudos for you observation on Democracy. you cannot purport to have a democratic society when you can buy the votes of the populace with offerings of barnyard animals and poultry. one would have believed the great leader, having lived so long in, and learned so much from, the USA, would try to import some modern social and political institutions, starting with the simple idea of introducing presidential debates. but no, he would rather give the people the mechanical trappings of modernity such as subways and police badge rip-offs, and maintain the antiquated sociopolitical modalities intact. what's a fellow to do?

Bravo to you both generoso y dreadlocks...well said!! A sad commentary to be sure, but hiding behind a facade of democracy to appease others while raping the country of its dignity all for the sake of protecting ones own wealth and that of his corrupt and equally morally deprived cronies is a travesty and disgrace.

thanks for your kind words, tejano

It's a "No way out" situation because the same democratic process that's corrupted enslaved us.
Transparency is nil and there are no checks and balances. The President has unlimited powers according to article 51 of he present constitution drafted by dictator Balaguer and the new proposed
constitution is even worse for extension of presidential powers. On the other hand you couldn't get anything done if your hands were tied up with such a corrupt congress and senate. So it is a "Mexican standoff" situation.
It is estimated that corruption percentages run as high as 40% of the annual budget in the DR and it is the main cause for poverty and the desperate flight of illegal boats to Puerto Rico.

There are three levels of corruption: Plain corrupción: the one that takes a percentage of commission to buy a product. 2. Prevaricación: the judge that passes or alters a law to benefit an
individual, or city council that use the law for others benefit 3. Concusión: Is the worse one which is the one that steal items belonging to the state and takes them home. Example: air force members who stole airplane engines and kept the money. Head of government office that took the air conditioners home. and so forth.
Haitian immigration is also a historical big business for the authorities in the border and is fomented by corruption.

What is the solution?
More transparency is the solution and less tolerance of "hereditary impunity" by the civil society.
As an example Trujillo did not allow anyone to profit other than him from state businesses, yet he
allow the head military officer in charge to take a 10% cut in purchases. This was ingrained and it is a tradition in the armed services. But you heard the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" .
After Trujillo died and the years that followed the traffic police was rampant with harassment and petty stops in highways by radar cops to ask for handouts. This system of abuse of power because a uniformed cop would stop you in the highway and threaten you with jail unless you paid him off was a nuisance and the source of many civilian complaints. The moneys collected by the corporals and sargents had to be distributed in the food chain and rose to the highest levels.
During General Candelier's passage as chief of police this was terminated with

generoso, my take is that the failure to achieve satisfactory governance is the perception that EVERYTHING is the target of personal enrichment, and nothing is done out of a sense of duty. when someone decides to use Harley Davidson motorcycles, the size of a small car, as a vehicle of pursuit in narrow city streets, it is not done with crime prevention in mind, but so that someone can make a commission. i just read an article yesterday in DR1, which states that close to 100 Ford cars, imported by the government from Spain, are laid up because there are no spare parts available. instead of buying the cars from a local dealer, who warned them that this would eventuate, they bought them anyway. so, we are saddled with 100 pieces of junk, for no good reason, other than the kickback from the spanish firm. if money making is the primary objective at all levels, there will never, ever, be a situation wherein the government and the bureaucracy takes personal pride in its achievements

"extreme prejudice" as the military term goes by rounding up all the of traffic cops and I mean all of them, transferring them to a police academy outside the city and having sort of a purge with each one of them and canceling the ones that were most corrupt and transferring the others all around,
effectively disbanding the traffic department who was substituted by AMET officers that had a different mentality.
And AMET officers do have a different mentality and training and their pay was much higher than the average street cop.
So in effect a strong autocratic rule by a tough general nipped this problem in the bud. I remember in an international seminar some guy came up to me and told me the story of being stopped in the middle of the road by a cop with "a large machine gun" and being asked for money, action that traumatized him forever against the DR as he was not used to this in Germany.

nor in its decisions. this lackadaisical approach to high achievement percolates through the social fabric of the country, creating a populace which is, unfortunately, notorious for inattention to detail in executing simple tasks. the mechanic who fixes your car does it just well enough to get it to leave his premises. you will be in his, or someone else's , repair shop the day after tomorrow. but wat can you expect, when he receives his guidance from on high, a land where those in charge take no pride in achievement, only in acquisition?

So the solution could be drastic in some cases and in others more lenient.
We can not aspire to reduce corruption from 40% down to 0 overnight even with an autocratic government is unheard off. Transparency international has many guidelines to be used for corruption control that could be put in effect.
Maybe aspire to reduce in half the corruption to a 20% and then half again and go on like that.
But corruption exists in highly developed and civilized countries but is not that public or evident.
It is a lot more sophisticated. I remember putting a bid for a particular product to be purchased by a city in the USA and the specifications were doctored in a way that only one product of the competition could win the bid. That is sophisticated corruption.
So transparency is the key. Let's take the case of the famous Tucano's purchase. The US had a similar bid for planes with financing in place but required no middlemen involvement and the offer was not taken into account.

but dread if I may say so you may have a bias caused by your belief system that attracts to you people that will not do the job well or rip you off. (Law of attraction) and you may be causing this
cause and effect by your own thinking.
It is also that since we have lived in other countries our EFICIENCY expectations are much higher and even Dominicans abroad are more efficient than here, for the simple reason that the system overseas is a lot more demanding than here and the stake is raised a notch.
But there are a lot of good mechanics here that you can trust your car to but you have to watch them closely and expect more from them and voice that expectation as well. I am a lenient boss with my hired help but they also know that they have to walk a very straight line otherwise the repercussions would be major and that makes them afraid and more careful to break the rules.
Sort off like treating children in a way.

generoso, i have a friend who used to buy salvage cars at auction in new york. the bids were sealed, and my buddy would leave blank bids with the girl who opened the envelopes. when she found the highest bid, she would put in a number 5 dollars higher on my friend's blank sheet (in the event he was prepared to pay that much). that way, he got what he wanted, and she supplemented her income. corruption;yes! the difference is this...do you know what would have been the repercussions if someone had documented proof that she was doing this ? in the DR, they do not even bother to publicise the auctions; they are intended to be the sole province of the selected few.

It is the same in all of the third world because simple our justice system is rotten and the judges have no pride in their work and is the law just another conduit to increase their earnings.
But in DR the corruption is rampant and it bothers you if you have any sense of decency left.
A family member was going through an accidental abortion caused by some workers carelessness
and I had to transport the woman in great pain to the city in a bumpy road. When I got to the city I was advised by "another medical opinion" that the fetus was dead and the whole trip was dangerous and unnecessary because the damn doctor just wanted to get more money out of me with his buddies in the city and then I did remember a coded cellular conversation where he used a slang inside medical term for "this patient has bucks". So he did not care at all or follow the Hypocratic oath and just used me to make some more money disregarding the patient's welfare.

generoso, i do attract undesirables, i admit. i had a problem with my car, and the mechanic disgnosed it immediately. he dismantled the assembly with extreme alacrity, and i left to have breakfast while he completed the job. sure enough, when i returned, it was up and running, like new. the problem, you ask? six or seven screws and washers on the floor. i asked him why he did not put them back where he found them, to which he opined that they were redundant and unnecessary. needless to say, i stood over him to watch him re-do the operation. it is not a matter of what he knows to do; it is how he does it. a german social scientist (i forget his name)wrote a paper expressing the opinion that latin american workmen just want to get the job done as fast as possible, not as well as possible .he took a lot of flak, being called biased and a racist. he sought to exonerate himself from the accusations by stating that work in the british caribbean is done with more patience and pride.

So we are not only used to corruption but it is ingrained in all facets of our life.
I would not offer a bride to a cop in Los Angeles if my life depended on it because the repercussions would be so severe that I shudder just thinking about it.
Yet, I was stopped in Louisiana by a motorcycle cop with an empty six pack all around our car, and my friend who is a local resident and fairly well known did some small talk with the copper and before you know we were on the road again. No bribe was posted though just friendly talk.So again there are different levels of corruption and exercising power and money is not just the common denominator always.

actually, generoso, i have several friends who are either NYPD or Port Authority cops. i never leave home without my PBA card. if i get pulled over, i show my card, and off i go. it is called "professional courtesy". on the other hand, if i attempted to offer the cop 50 dollars, or some such thing, i would be leaving the surroundings in handcuffs.

dread: what you said is so true. When I visited the german BMW factory in Stuttgart I was amazed
how clean everything was and how efficient and calm the workers where while working there and you are correct. Excellence in your work comes from meticulous and high attention and concentration to what you are doing.
Nothing pisses me off more than going to a check out counter or cashier in a store and she is constantly gabbling in the cellular phone uninterested in getting me out of there quickly and justifying her salary. And then some other person comes from nowhere and start a menial conversation with her as well.
There is definite absence of intensive focus by the general population here and is all just part
of the "easy and loafer like Caribbean lifestyle" of "don't worry be happy" or "no problem".

But I agree the English Caribbean work habits have more efficiency ingrained than their counterparts in the Spanish or French Caribbean.
But also when I first visited Antigua doing business there it was a very well run island until the British left I believe in the 80's or so and then everything went south, including power shortages and water and so forth. I don't know how it is now but it was run better before the natives took over.

genoroso how wrong can you be " But I agree the English Caribbean work habits have more efficiency ingrained than their counterparts in the Spanish or French Caribbean."....The spanish Antilles are Switzerland compared to the Caricom sand bars...".Dont Stop the Carnival " still applies.....sorry Dread

those people got their independence from the back of the Royal Yacht Brittania in the 60s as Liz sailed into the sunset

Dread A very important biography VS Naipuls reviewed in today NYTimeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23....s/review/Packer-t.html?ref=review

GC, i beg to differ. having lived some years in Jamaica. i can tell you that there is a far different approach to work there than there is here. (things have changed recently , i am sure, and for the worse). simple example; i could walk into any auto parts store , ask for a particular part, and the clerk would know everything about it, including the part number. no need for books, nor microfiche; he knew it all by heart. i took my car to the dealer in santiago to buy an engine mount; the car only has one mount on either side. the guy could not even locate it on the microfiche; he had to come look at it on the car!! my pet subject, GC; loudspeakers. when i lived there, speaker making was an art. people would not admit to making them if they sounded like cardboard. they researched the subject, and produced magnificent beasts. ever heard the stuff here? the DR has far more natural advantages than the sandbars, but they have better institutions.

Well, it's been a few days and nobody is in jail yet, the crooks or their lawyers!! There was an article about the overcrowded conditions and lack of sanitary conditions though. I think these guys will want to build their own private wing on the prison in which they serve their time. Something resplendent with all modern convienences including live in full service maids and maybe a chef.

domericano
are you kidding me?
nobody works in DR from now on to after Reyes holiday in January.
Lawyers an judges included.
"So many parties, so little time".
Get use to it and don't get frustrated, it's the DR way.

Thanks generoso, that gave me a good belly laugh! you are right of course sometimes frustration comes easy and fast for me. Unfortunately patience is not one of my attributes. Looking forward to the art sale!!

generoso, as an afterthought/revelation their slick attorneys probably counted on the extended holiday to give their clients another month or so of freedom.................who says Dominicans aren't smart!