From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
What happened to a country is sovereign to do whatever it wants? Double standard? um...
In this case I think the Haitian authorities are in the Wrong, but they have the right to do so, just like we have the right to deny people born here their citizenship-- wait we don't have that right, we just brake rules and international laws :-/
Written by: SuperQ, 2 Feb 2008 3:20 AM
From: Italy
Baldoria
"deny people born here their citizenship"
read the our constitution and learn, I am living in Italy and here, if you are a son of an illigal, you will be denied the italian citizenship, but no one is talking about it, right? let me guess why, oh maybe just 'cause Italy is a 1st world country and it's among the top ten richest countries in the world.
and if I need to get deeper in my remark even if you are a son of 2 legal foreign persons, you don't get the italian citizenship.
Written by: josean, 2 Feb 2008 8:34 AM
From: United States
Suddenly the Dominican racists find out how economically interdependent our two republics are.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Super Q, the constitution says people born here from diplomats and people "in transition" are not considered citizens:
Article 1: Todas las personas que nacieren en el territorio de la República, con excepción de los hijos legítimos de los extranjeros residentes en el país en representación diplomática o los que están de tránsito en él.
(see I know the constitution)... If someone who has been here Years and Years, without formal work permit, are they in transition? The constitution is wonderfully vague about this, and the consequences are even greater when you realize that you need a birth-certificate to go to middle school.
Ok, you say that you're in Italy does not provide automatic citizenship for people born on Italian territory; but it gives people who have never stepped in italy (the diaspora) citizenship. Forget about legality, does this seem fair to you? Moreover, Italy favors "jus sanguinis", but the DR doesn't b/c we are a nation of immigrants.
Tell me what you
Written by: joop2, 2 Feb 2008 10:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Pedro de Macoris
The way i read this is like that the Haitians want hard proof that there is no virus
Dominican officials say "there is no virus TRUST ME"
I rather trust the words from a serial killer than from this goverment, with all their "thrustfull" statements (like at first the denial of the virus) in the last year that every time created a (small) disaster and that very good is in after-error reactions like "at that moment we did not have the correct info"
And this comes even more clear in statements as
"We will give them the certification ... along with the paralyzation" of the market, said by Freddy Morillo, president of the Dominican Association of Egg Distributors
Sorry mr. Morillo, are the Haitians still "slaves" who have to do what YOU want, without having their own opinion ? ... prob it figures ......
From: United States, Long island, NY
Let's see who is the weakest link????
From: United States, Long island, NY
Time will prove who is righ...............................Facts or Blackmail???
From: United States, Long island, NY
Where is the racism factor mixing with the business factor in this news??
Venezuela is close to seal the final deal so We could trade chickens and eggs for oil...............
Let's see at the end what happens.................PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE
Written by: ny4life, 2 Feb 2008 11:30 AM
From: United States, New York, NY
Haiti has the right to deny imports. DR shouldn't ban or paralyze the market for that. However, DR did make a good move to look elsewhere for trade. Trading doesn't stop in Haiti but it sure is needed for both countries.
From: Dominican Republic
Monday is Carnival in northern Haiti so there would not be much trade anyway.
This will probably be resolved when the Dominicans decide to cross over into Haiti to sell their eggs. Now the market is only on the DR side of the border.
It does seem an odd way to treat one's customers. Sort of like the anti-customer service that one gets in some stores and restuarants here- as if they are doing you a favor, letting you spend your money.
It is really an eye opener for the DR to see that Haitian actually can close its own borders.
From: United States
This is typical Dominican male macho mentality. There is no reason why the Haitians have to except the word of Dominican ‘officials’ that wear the badge of corruption as an honor. Please.
From: United States, Long island, NY
Let's close the border(mountainie) that would be a DREAM for Dominican Republic, May God listens to your petitions.
From: United States
A powerful haiti would be retaliatory towards DR... Time to shape up and meet the re-newed haitian threat.
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
I really dont know why the Dominican gov't is whining and moaning about this. If the Haitian gov't dont want to eat your chickens that potentially could still have "Avian Flu Virus" then they dont have to. Now there are trying to find ways to punish Haiti for not buying their chickens. If its continues to be like this, then the Haitian can stop doing trade with Dominican Republic, because they dont even account for half the percentage of trade in which Haiti operates.
Written by: kmnupe, 2 Feb 2008 2:52 PM
From: United States, NYC
Why does anyone think that closing the border automaticaly benefits the DR?Tthis is just an "emotional" sentiment.
People who are not economicaly astute tend to discount the tremendous benefit of cheap labor.
Companies/Business owners are not going to miraculously raise wages to give Dominicans jobs.
They wil pack their "stuff" and move on to a better market or just downsize.
From: United States
Since when does Haiti care about its population so much... This is a retaliation by the government to influence DR politics... No More No Less
From: United States
Since when does Haiti care about its population so much... This is a retaliation by the government to influence DR politics... No More No Less
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
Lol Carlos: I think you better rethink that last comment you posted sir. A nation that has no modern military, a police force of about 9,000 to govern and provide safety for 9 million people will potentially be a force against the Dominican Republic that has a military of over 95 thousand men/women. Last time I checked the Haitians were not threathen to invade in '99 because there were so many Dominicans in the streets of Port-au-prince....Haitian didn't provide assylum to Dominican terrorist group in order to overthrow the democratically elected government of your people. I really dont understand your comment sir.....can you elaborate for me please
From: Haiti
I can't help but to laugh at this article no disrespect to the person that wrote this but it is obvious with the words such as (punish the haitains, irritate the dominicans) there is an overtone of superiority here and how dare the haitians..Ok I dont speak english well but from my little knowledge of this language I think I am right. Are you kidding me..We are a sovereign nationa not some cheap prostitute. I mean isn't clear that the haitian government don't want to get __ in the ___ any longer. Is this a divorce where the abusive husband doesn't want the wife to leave and see that she is worth more than he ranted about..Wow, this is the haitian dominican tvnovela.. Is someone clearly is in the know..the carnaval in the northern haiti..is on monday which will cause little activity. And I haven't heard anything about this deal with Venezuela from them. Ok..so are the dominicans ready to negotiate or keep the saga alive..will Jean get the offer or will Belkis continue playing hard
From: Haiti
And dominicans say Haiti does not benefit them. If trade with Haiti isn't important why all the retaliation and the revenge and the whining and complaining??? And its so obvious the person who wrote this article is pro-dominican. Its bias towards Haiti. And CarlosFranco after all DR has done to Haiti including providing asylum to rebels you say Haiti is a threat to DR. Dominicans say we have no economy but we're a threat. We have no real military but we're a threat. Dominicans claim we have to be taken care of according to the words of some on this site but we're a threat. A little hypocritic and ignorant don't you think? Its a slap in the face when Haiti stands up to the DR's bullying isn't it? lol.
From: Haiti
continued..know that her goodies can't compete with other competitors..I can't wait to you guys get the news. This is going to get really ugly of this isn't dealt with diplomatically. Should I tell them..nah, you'll find out for yourselves..as I said b4 on a more serious note..the peso has been climbing too much over the gourde and this is another factor that is keeping the haitian government from lifting the ban without renegotiating with the dominicans in this sector...
From: United States
Hispaniola, Hispaniola! Thats what global maps shows, Hispaniola, we don't know any other way!!!!! Hispaniola, at the end of the day we're goind to get our way!!!!!!!! Thats what the UN global says!!!!! Hispaniola, Hispaniola, the only way !!!!!
Hispaniola, nice to say !!!!
From: United States, Long island, NY
Miss Perception: In YOUR DREAMS,IN YOUR DREAMS, IN YOUR DREAMS
I don't get your envy towards Dominican Republic, I know why you want HISPANIOLA
because Your and your fellow countrymen destroyed everything on your side.
HA HA HA HA....................................................eat better so you could think better
You want to have What We have: prosperity, investments , infrastructure and development.
You need to sweat and work hard to achieve this on your side of the island
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Rubirosa... please please, I beg you to think twice before you write any more bigot comments. You embarrass me and many dominicans who interact with our brothers who happened to have been born in Haiti. We need eachother, just like a baseball team relies on each other.
Rubirosa, why are you so filled with hate, xenophobia, and discrimination? Have you never been discriminated against? If yes, how did it make you feel? and why do you want others to feel that way?
We are a nation that exports labor, we should be more understanding and compationate.
Rubirosa, your comments embarrass me.
But I defend your right to express them, so keep sharing. Maybe one day we'll reach a midpoint of justice, equity, and peace.
From: United States
At last, !!!!! Leonel its doing something for us, Haitians. A metro so we can move from Villa Mella to the city, and bring Chicharonee and to make it easier for us to come to work every morning. Thank you Monsieur Leonel for thinking in us, we want to apologize for Preval actions, we know you have a lot of interest on us (Feeding us), so we can multiply, and re-colonize slowly, but certain of what belongs to all of us Hispaniola.
Oui, Oui, Oui, Merci mille fois, Je tiens à vous exprimer notre gratitude, Je vous adresse mes plus vifs remerciements, east habitans of Hispaniola Remerciez-le de ma part, Remerciez-le de ma part pour les gallinee. Gracias por los Pollos, estan bien ricos, pero mandalos mas gorditos por favor, porque los ultimos estban flacos, y con "Moquillo".
A tinne Bauusse Monsieur. (Arab) Viva La Hispaniola !!!!!!!!
Written by: Lautaro, 2 Feb 2008 9:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Here we go again: Perception vs. Rubirosa, round two. Who will win, the unionist champion or the white supremacist crusader? LOL
On a more serious tone, both of you need to rethink your positions: Rubirosa = isolationist views that are impossible to apply due to the interdependence of both countries' economies. While Perception = Political union that can't be applied, at least not without a long, costly and risky process of accomodation that both countries are not in a position to implement right now (At least not without some seriou$$$$$$$, and honest, international backing, because, if you haven't been noticing, Haiti have 200 years being a no man's land battlefield). Only when both countries find themselves on the same economical footing, and most of all, looking at each other without any trace of suspicion and distrust, would be the time to take up such a step.
From: United States
Lautaro, I do understand your critical thinking. Then, a Free Trade will do it for now, we have it in the US.
Written by: Lautaro, 2 Feb 2008 10:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Exactly, that's precisely my POV, mr. Perception. That way, a lot of issues could be dealt with openly and honestly, and the would establish the base from which foreign investments could return to Haiti, with the proper respect for that nation's sensitivities and needs, of course.
Written by: dagtan, 2 Feb 2008 10:40 PM
From: United States
Boy oh Boy these two are the prime example of people suffering from lunacy.
Written by: Lautaro, 2 Feb 2008 10:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Would you prefer the current disorder to persist, mr. dagtan?
Written by: dagtan, 2 Feb 2008 11:03 PM
From: United States
Not in a million years, Mr. Lautaro, it just funny how both JRRubirosa and Perception are so extremist to one side or the other, that even Binladen would have difficulties keeping up. But you know, Mr. Lautaro, I have a lot of respect for you, when you actually tried to make some sense of their postings and even tried to give some common sense to it as well. You are brave, Mr. Lautaro.
Written by: Lautaro, 2 Feb 2008 11:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
jjejej, it doesn't hurt one to try it once in a while, mr. dagtan, It's a good exercise for the mind. My apologies for misunderstanding you earlier, you have to know that I support your point of views on the different articles that you have been posting wholeheartedly.
Written by: dagtan, 2 Feb 2008 11:40 PM
From: United States
Thanks Mr. Lautaro, I was also saying, maybe he misunderstood my posting, let me post what I meant on the first posting and I was sure that you were going to see the misunderstanding. Moreover, Mr. Lautaro it is not easy to be on the receiving end of all the abuse I take from the fanatics for posting what I post and I really would like to thank you for your kind words. I have been accused of being Haitians, mixed or simply a disgruntle Dominicans for being an activist instead of a blind fanatic.
Written by: Lautaro, 3 Feb 2008 12:20 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
That's often the price that patriots have to pay for defending their beliefs, mr. dagtan. Notwithstanding the hardships that one may suffer in the pursuance of this path, the rewards of it are all worth the effort at the end of the day, more so when this reward comes in the form of a better world to pass on to our descendants.
From: United States
I'm neither Dominican or Haitian, but I did live and partially got educated in Dr. I know very well the Dominican History since the discovery up to the last Joaquin Balaguer Goverment.
I recall something that "Ganghi" used to say to the Hindus & the Muslims, "The only demons, are the ones we have around our Hearts",.
I was recently visiting Santo Domingo, and I saw with my owns eyes a Haitian mother in Naco with two little children picking food from the garbage and feeding them. We all know, the supression in wich this people has live forever, because in the past Frenchs & Spaniards differences. And thats where all this hates comes from, I know its best for the island to work together and exploit their potencial above past history. I do not believe on extrems, but I did have a lot of fun bullying (Rubirosa), because people like him don't get it. I do understand Nacionalistics feelings, I did once, but how can you fight the unavoidable "Globalization".
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
To: Perception,
I understand that you have a lot of hope for Dominican/Haitian relationship but do you seriously think that if Toussaint Louverture was still alive now, he would want Haiti to unify with the Dominican Republic. 100,000 of my ancesters did not die in a 13 year war to sell themselves to the Dominican Republic when that country hates and wants nothing to do with us. This is no longer 1821. This was tried before and it failed. Haitians speak French/Creole, Dominicans speak Spanish. Haiti has a large African/French culture, Dominicans have Spanish culture. In essence it will never, ever work out. I rather have Haiti stay a poor country than unite with D.R. and be prosperous. Haiti is for Haitians and Dominican Republic is for Dominicans.
Written by: ny4life, 3 Feb 2008 1:39 AM
From: United States, New York, NY
Jemesouviens1804, I agree with you 100%.
From: United States
jemesouviens1804, remember a philosophycal saying, "Who wins the war, get to writte the story", If you remember your History, Toussaint was influenced by France and Juan Pablo Duarte by Spain, and thats how hell broke lose. Both of them return from Europe with a hidden agenda as we know. If you all remember there where no mestizo then, only Mulato and some Indians and Spaniards. The Mulato uprised against slavery and move to the west of the Island, so stop accentuating your differences and punctuate your reasoning that France and Spain use you all to their advantage and a few centuries later you all are still talking about this same issues. France and Spain where disputing themselves for new teritorries in las Americas and thats how everything got started. Thats how countries are born, interest for power, blinds men of their reality.
Forget what your teachers told you when you where growing up, because it was all lies, big lies, only France and Spain interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Haiti
Perception I understand your point of view and you are right that this derived mainly from the France & Spain territorial dispute. This is why the great Toussaint played their game by crossing the border claiming as subject of the Spaniards(Santo Dgo) to fight against the French(Saint Domingue) and we all have our Ph.D revising the aftermath of this great guerilla warfare. To reiterate my fellow compatriot we haitians would prefer to die of famine than allow us to be ruled by the DR. We are proud despite our situation and will never walk with our head down. The dominicans dont want anything to do with us and believe we are the enemy to their spanish culture why do you think they begged their oppressors to re-colonize them again even if it was to their detriment and setting them back. Dominicans(generalizing here) are running from their african lineage and that =haitians although negros were on their side with no haitian lineage straight from the mother land africa.
From: Haiti
Really analyze the our history to see that we will never unite due to the baggage of inferior complex and their hatred towards us haitians and us haitians with too much pride & self respect. What country in the americas that sacrificed their freedom and run to the conquistadores. Can you imagine what the spaniards thought. These negros are so demented in the mind they prefer oppression then establish a bond with the negro brothers oppressed by our business partner France. Lets call our buddy france and tell them that we can still profit by manipulating both. Fast foward to present we are dealing with the seem issue. So it is a lost case and you as a sane person cant understand why negros and half breeds can't see that they would be stronger economically if they'd unite. Well that's the case of hispaniola in a nutshell. Let's just accept our fate and play the same tune for another 3 centuries. Let evolution take care of things or dissolve either way the world doest care.
From: Haiti
Want you are inspiring would cause tremendous issues culturally,linguistically, and two set of way of thinking..one that is overly proud of who they are and the other drastically ashamed of who they are. Why do you think the UN didn't choose dominican troops to Haiti. One case of abuse by the dominicans haitians would see this as a threat to sovereignty just as many dominicans feel that 500k haitians, the other are black dominicans with no haitian ancestry but are stigmatize due to their dark hue, as a threat. Just give up and seeing a haitian eating out of the garbage in Naco isn't the dominicans fault. I can send you to places where haitians are spending US dollars like it was going out of style. There is always to different scenarios of the same coin. I hope you can understand and just accept that haiti is for Haiti and DR is for dominicans and focus on improving relations an attempt to unite means u are an enemy of both countries and really hurting us both.
Written by: Belial, 3 Feb 2008 10:16 AM
From: United States, Texas
Haiti has not only the right but also the duty to look after the public safety of its people.
DR should be concentrating on building confidence internationally in the wholesomeness of its chicken and eggs based on scientific investigation and data, not sniveling that the Haitians are less eager to dine on suspicious DR chickens and eggs than DR citizens who don't seem to object to the chicken flu.
The DR exports dirt-cheap chickens to the USA ... as well as to Haiti ... and imports expensive or upscale chicken from the USA.
What has been the US stance on the now suspicious DR chicken?
Some US chickens have also caught the flu. Since the DRs love expensive US chickens, the DRs naturally feel that the Haitians should also be undiscriminating about what they pay for and eat.
The US has tried to assure the DRs with scientific data that most of the expensive or upscale US chickens are safe.
The DR should follow the US imperialist example.
From: Haiti
I would like to say to Lautaro,Bladoria,Dagtan, Frank understand where I am coming from and no way disrespecting the dominican state. I am simply expressing my opinions and trying to explain to non dominicans & non haitians why uniting the two countries can never work. Man this thread has taken a noise dive street down. I must admit that it was funny & sad at the same time to read. Man will we ever get along. I can't believe the characters have attacked there own respectable minded dominicans such as Lautaro, Dagtan, Bladoria. Let remember that you guys are attacking real dominicans that can do something in society not the ones that migrated to USA now assuming their public school education and mind set will change the DR. As someone mentioned many fanatics here would be mawning lawns and shining shoes if it werent for the opportunity provided on foreign soil. Ok, can we get serious here..I can see foreignors reading this and saying to themselves..what a bunch of 3rd world clowns
From: United States, Long island, NY
To Perception: "You have fun bullying me" HA HA HA, look I'm chicken out with your comments.
I think you have Zero personality as a human being, man or woman and whatever else you are,
(nationatilty).
Fatcts are there Dominican Rep is growing in every aspect and investments will continue regarding your venom and bad feelings.
I am a crusader against all injustice towards Dominican Republic and its citizens, whether you and other people like or not BE IT.
From: United States, Long island, NY
To perception: You also have a typical lazzy mentality (getting Dominican Republic for free)
Do you know the meaning of bravery, guts, pride, hard working, family values, successful mind driven.
You don't have all these values so stop dreaming and getting high
From: Dominican Republic
The strain of avian flu found in the DR was H5n2 which has never crossed between birds and humans. The United States has an embargo on poultry from 37 nations - or regions within nations- which have had outbreaks of H5n1, the more virulent strain. Puerto Rico imposed a ban on poultry from the DR and then lifed it. Puerto Rico imports live fighting roosters, like the ones found carrying the virus.
The DR is not on the US embargo list.
Readers may not remember or may not know that an outbreak of swine flu here in the DR in 1982 resulted in the US pressuring Haiti to slaughter all the creole pigs. And sink into even deeper poverty.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
JRRubirosa, I always wonder if you take such an extreme position in jest. By jove man, it seems that if you were living in Germany under Hitler, you would defend him too. Don't be so ideological that you can't see social phenomena from a disinterested point of view. I know we all have our normative points - for me Human rights, equitible growth, protecting the environment, and justice - but I'm not so arrogant to claim to know the Truth - capital "T". I welcome to learn from you.
Can you, JRRubirosa, do the same? that is, be big enough to learn from others, and just allow for the remote possibility that none of us have the entire Truth? Oh and that the wonderful education, media, and government info we get may be presenting biased accounts that shape our outlook? By listening to others we are able to check all the biased info we get on an everyday basis. But I think you need to start by defining your normative goals - what do you want- justice, human rights, etc?
From: United States, Long island, NY
To Baldoria: I have highly respects for you, You sound very mellow, good karma person and straitforward person.
I give you credit for being passive and mean well, Sometimes I would try to ignore and think the way that you do.
Remember something "to defeat a monster you never become one" but with the haitians brothers (Most of the ones) that express their opinions everything is against DR.
I love facts and right opinions, but you know something it comes to a point that too much is too much.
Haitians express their opinions as their please in this and other forums and I'm feed up with the same opinions (dominicans are racist, they don't deserve this, their side of the island belong to us, Juan Pablo Duarte was a racist, Leonel fernandez is not good "same president that is helping them out too much" and which I dont care because they have their right of opinon too)
Funny thing is when they try to teach, preach or tell history, statistics or facts that "I ALREADY KNOW"
From: Haiti
JRRubirosa that fact that you say that Haitians claim Dominicans are racist and xenophobic is exactly what you always express in your comments. Your comments are xenophobic and seem to be anti-Haitian. On many articles I fail to see any insults to the DR all I see are facts. You always are bringing up "my ancestors and country and Juan Pablo Duarte" etc. in articles that have no relevance to that. You sound very extremist as some have stated. I have nothing but respect for Dominicans (at least those that aren't biased) and the DR and yet you keep on bashing Haiti. What's up with that?
Written by: Belial, 3 Feb 2008 2:31 PM
From: United States, Texas
"The DR is not on the US embargo list, " informs Mountainannie.
0000
Since I asked the this question earlier, thanks for your answer.
Do you have a link in support of your answer?
From: United States, Long island, NY
To HaYkickyouintheSHIN: seems to be that like always You and Haitians listen what is convenient for Haiti, express what is good for Haiti but everyhing else is bad because You are the only ones 100% right.
FYI: If DR and dominicans are so bad, racist and xenophobic why people like Miss perception want to unite the island, why so many haitians move to our side, why so many haitian women are being taken care of in our hospitals so they could have their babies, why Sonia Pierre is discreding our country.
I only see in Dominican Republic investments building infraestructure and doing our best to improve what We can.
We want peaceful communitcation as long as Haitians don't push us around other that this
Written by: joop2, 3 Feb 2008 3:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Pedro de Macoris
And the worst part of this all is
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE EAT !!!!!
Maybe it is all infected, "official" research cannot be trusted, the Haitians don't want our eggs and chicken and i guess they have a reason for that, what is happening to us ....
HELLLLLLLLPPPPP !!!
Written by: Belial, 3 Feb 2008 7:53 PM
From: United States, Texas
The Cubans gave their take on the chickens.
0000
DR, Haiti Negotiating to End Dispute
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={31AFC4C2-7148-416E-B7EF-4DF6B8460AB4})&language=EN
Santo Domingo, Feb 2 (Prensa Latina) The possibility of ending Dominican-Haitian dispute revived Sunday with the visit of a technical delegation on which depends the end to the poultry products ban imposed on the eastern neighbor.
The visitors, led by Haitian Agriculture Minister Joanas Gue finished a round of conversations with a Dominican team to elaborate sanitary norms that will allow resumption of sales of chickens and eggs in border markets.
On Friday, one of the two days of fairs along the common borders, the Dominican western locality of Barahona decided to boycott that fairs until the situation is solved.
Haiti decreed four weeks ago an entry ban on Dominican poultry products after detecting several animals infected with avian flu in the locality of Higuey.
Con't
Written by: Belial, 3 Feb 2008 8:39 PM
From: United States, Texas
Tradecraft has five steps -- exposure, discredit, disrupt, misdirect, and otherwise neutralize.
This chicken crisis betwen the DR and Haiti has the marks of a CIA disruption and disdirection operation.
There are the usual national chauvinist fools and buffoons on both sides, transparently coordinating their activities, trying with all of their powers, to create a divide based on perceived biological, moral, and intellectual peculiarities of each sde of the squabble.
From: United States
This chicken crisis betwen the DR and Haiti has the marks of a CIA disruption and disdirection operation.
You got this one right !!!!
PSYCH-OPS. (End of my shift)
Have a nice day!. ALL
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
What is the problem with all you Dominicans...You all should be glad Haitians are not eating your reinfected chickens. Us Haitians well starve to death and all of the people will be no more. Isn't that what the Dominican Republic been wishing for since 1844. Sell your chickens to the Venezuelans. We'll do alright eating "bannan" and "Griot" with a side order of "picklies"...hmmmm "C"est Bon".
From: United States
Why is this such a big deal? OMG, is it really that serious. Can't a country defend itself, we aren't in elementary school anymore. But i guess anyway to promote nationalistic views, is alright for both govenments At the end of the day, both nations need to resolve this issue and move on with their daily lives. I would hate to hear that a war starts because of sick chickens, lol.
From: United States
"Chicken RUN" PG-13
From: United States
Well, I am born and raised in America but my grandfather has been doing missions work in Haiti since 1986. I recently visited different parts of Haiti with him in the summer of 2007, and am returning in the summer of 2008. I care a lot for the people of Haiti and I read this article and blogs with some distate. WHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD THE PEOPLE OF HAITI BE INFLUENCED BY THE D.R. TO TAKE THEIR INFECTED CHICKENS?!? First of all, the people of the D.R. should be more concerned with the fact that their chickens could be killing ITS OWN PEOPLE!!! Not the fact that other countries aren't buying their messed up chickens. AVION FLU KILLS HUMANS!! The D.R. needs to realize that OTHER PEOPLE AREN"T GOING TO WANT TO BUY THINGS THAT WILL KILL THEM!! Um, thats's called common sense. The D.R. needs to get off its butt and do some research so that Domincans themselves are not killed. This is dumb. Haiti is obviously not going to want products that will kill its people.
From: United States, Long island, NY
To bearcatt: If you are born and raised in US, You father is doing mission work in Haiti since 1986 and you are trying to bully Dominican Rep with a Biased opinion, WELL that clearly make you another HAITIAN in this forum and even funnier, why you don't tell your real nationality???
Why so much shame about people from Haitia telling the world where they are from is always easy to say I"M FROM THE US so that give you automatic right to bully My country.
You see I'm not afraid to show my true colors right and left, but never hide my identity behind another nationality to enforce and push anybody's agenda that's plain and simple COWARDICE.
From: United States
Rubirosa, Men drop the ball, we want to play, and your holding us back with your non-sense.
No more extra-innings, one of your buddys call you xenophobic, not me. With your remarks, your the one bullying DR, don't you see it.
Stop spitting up, its falling all over you !!!!!! and your flooding DR'S DAMS.
Was you using your helmet, when you hit the wall !!!!!
From: Dominican Republic
Let us all be clear that the type of avian flu that was found in the DR has NEVER killed a human, never jumped between birds and humans, is present within the US, and most likely -- is also present inside Haiti. It kills BIRDS... The more virulent form of the avian flu - H5N1 - has had outbreaks in a number of countries, mostly in Asia.
H5N2 cannot be transmitted through cooked chicken or eggs. only live bird to live bird.
From: United States, Long island, NY
I'm tired of being poilitcally correct and won't give anybody the plesure to give up, We need to Watch Dominican Republic security.
From: United States
I agree Miss. Mountaiannie with your remarks, but, if the "Virus" its not isolated, who can guaratee it wont mutate to the next phase. Local officials will read this slightly and do nothing about it. Epidemiological deceases are hard to contain when drug resistant, worst when not in check. Where is the inventory for the H5N1 vaccine?, because as far I know no one had developed yet.!!!
It will take nothing, absolutety nothing for the "Virus" to wipe out half of third world countries population.
I'm for containning Dominican poultry to one side of the Island. Knowing that even mutated!!!!, containment wont stop the spreading.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Gente, the problem has been resolved. Negotations took place last weekend, and the DR will adjust its processes to Int'l norms to ensure the quality of the eggs and chicken. It'll take about a week for the new measures to take place, so by this time next week, eggs and chickens should flow into Haiti.
Lessons: Haiti and DR successfully negotiated this situation, so all the "war-mungers" should really take a step back and eat crow. This situation was handled excellently by both gov's. Reactionary factions calling for boycotts failed in their efforts to make this into an ugly situation.
For those who deny Haiti's rights to control the goods that are imported into Haiti - this is a usual thing that countries do to protect its internal markets, and also to protect the safety of their people (e.g. the "poisoned" toys from China).
So next time, take a step back, encourage dialogue btw the two countries, and don't react so quickly. Rubirosa, keep on with your comments, just be nic
Written by: Lautaro, 6 Feb 2008 9:37 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Perhaps I'm being pessimistic, but considering how things are run by our politicos, to hope that situations like this to not repeat themselves in the future is really too much to ask.
Written by: SuperQ, 6 Feb 2008 3:32 PM
From: Italy
baldoria23
If you are in a country illigal, your son can't be given the citizenship of the country you are in. what do you have to say about what Italy does about it?
if you are a son of a legal haitian then you are a Dominican, it's as easy as ABC my man!
Written by: SuperQ, 6 Feb 2008 3:36 PM
From: Italy
By the way, I have some haitian blood in me as my great grand mother was 100% pure haitian! but if you are not legal in a place, you are not part of that place! that's the way I think of it!
From: United States, Long island, NY
Super Q: very smart comments, GOOD BOY
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
SuperQ the only thing I have to say about that is that the Italian constitution may be clear about the standards of citizenship, but the Dominican constitution is not. Is someone who has lived in a place for 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 45, an entire lifetime in transit? I'm saying this NOT to change the constitution to be more discriminatory, but rather to point to the lack of clarity.
Plus, just because the constitution says something -as in the case of Italy, Germany, Austria and other "old" countries - it does not make it fair,just, or in-line with Human RIghts standard. Remember that Apartheid in South Africa was constitutional; and the exclusion of women from voting... BUt these constitutional components can hardly be called fair, just, or democratic.
It is our responsibility, as citizens of this earth fighting for a better world to identify and combat injustice, even when these are legitimized through "legal" channels.
From: United States
"Jus sollis", its a Universal legal term, applied to those he/she entitled to claim a/or country citizenship, except for Diplomats and others officials in transit. An illegal Haitian son/daugther born in DR territories, its entitled to claim DR citizenships. Its established in the Civil French code, that its the legacy Haitians implemented as the judicial system in DR.
Otherwise send Carlos Morales Troncoso (DR Foreign relations peon) to argue the matter in front of the United Nations, and I bet you everyone its going to threw him bananas.
This legal terms, exist since the "Roman Empire". An DR its different. JA jA jA
Written by: SuperQ, 7 Feb 2008 3:31 PM
From: Italy
someone living without permitt to stay for 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 45 is just an illigal, and that's all about it!
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
SUperQ, being undocumented and being in transit are TWO different things.
From: United States
"Jus sollis"
cappicce.
Written by: SuperQ, 7 Feb 2008 3:49 PM
From: Italy
I am talking about being undocumented, transit means that you'll be in a place for a short time for some kind of mission or job.
if you are working for 3 years without permitt to stay, you are illigal.
ask dominicans in USA if they can work without green card, or if a hospital gives them assistance without a healthcare insurance!
From: United States
US Citizen & Immigrations Services Laws, If your born in US territories from "Illegals" parents, your automaticaly a US citizen due to "Jus Sollis". They come out from the hospital with a "US birth Certificate". And we do provide care for illegals, in every single community in this country.
Ask Dominicans, Mexicans and many Immigrants, I will say most of them, thats how they became US citizens, beside their Naturalized parents.
Written by: SuperQ, 7 Feb 2008 4:36 PM
From: Italy
green card?
Written by: dagtan, 7 Feb 2008 6:40 PM
From: United States
SuperQ, you are confused about the U.S. system. In the U.S. you do not need any type of documents in order to be admitted into a hospital and many people get owrk permitts if they are illegal. If they chose not to get a work permitt, then they often find work off the books as the majority of illegals will do. SuperQ, there is a no questions, no answers policy for the following services in the U.S., education, medical assistance, red cross, meals on wheels, shelters and temporary housing. Many illegal parents come here to give birth since it will secure their stay and if that does not happens, it will secure their offsprings an american citizenship.
Written by: SuperQ, 7 Feb 2008 7:07 PM
From: Italy
ok, then i wasn't inform the right way!
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 7:12 PM
From: United States, Texas
"In the U.S. you do not need any type of documents in order to be admitted into a hospital ..."
0000
In 2007, M. Moore, the filmmaker, alleged in the blockbuster "Sicko" that even US citizens need insurance documents to get into most US hospitals.
However, the film "Sicko" was not about the lack of documents but their futility. Moore showed case after case where US citizens ...WITH DOCUMENTS ... were denied treatment and kicked out of the US hospitals because their insurance company denied coverage.
It is possible, as you suggest, that illegal immigrants in the USA have superior access to most US hospitals than insured and uninsured US citizens, but your contention ... to say the least ... is somewhat novel.
Written by: dagtan, 7 Feb 2008 7:25 PM
From: United States
Actually, Belial, you might not believe this, but the Moore documentary was flawed due to the biased strategy that Moore used to lash out to the Bush administration. Many Hospital will deny certain services, but not basic care. Everyone is admitted to a Hospital, specially state and federally funded hospitals. Moore used exclusive private hospitals which supported his own personal agenda. Pirvate medical institution will admit you if you are insured, but will define in details the services that your care provider does not cover and will transfer you to a hospital that will cover those services if needed. As to illegal aliens, a private medical institution has the right to deny them service since they have no medical insurance and even in some instances, if the injury is life threatening, they will stabilize the person and then transfer them to a government funded institution. No one is left to die in the ER, regardless of hospital or status in the U.S.
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 8:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Many Hospital will deny certain services, but not basic care."
0000
When a hospital tells ambulance services not to bring in certain categories of patients -- e.g., homeless, Medicare, undocumented, and uninsured, how does hospital know ... before the hospital examines the patients and sometimes months before the onset of the patient's medical problem ... that the patients in these categories don't need "basic care" rather than "certain services?"
Perhaps, the ambulance services deny "basic care" from these hospitals.
From: Dominican Republic
we certainly got very far away from the chickens and eggs on the border
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 8:59 PM
From: United States, Texas
"we certainly got very far away from the chickens and eggs on the border"
oooo
You're right.
But the chicken and the eggs do pose some health concerns, at least the Haitians seem to think so.
But, frankly, I don't see the connection between these Hiatian health concerns over the DR's chicken and eggs and the restricted admission policies of some emergency rooms in the USA.
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 9:23 PM
From: United States, Texas
"In 2007, a low-pathogenic strain of H5N2 was found in samples collected from 25,000 turkeys in Pendleton County, West Virginia in a routine testing prior to their slaughter. The birds showed no sign of illness or mortality. Measures were taken to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading."
"In late 2007 (December 21), an H5N2 outbreak was found in the Dominican Republic, in a Suburb of Higuey City, on the eastern side of the island. 15 roosters and 2 hens where eliminated even though they had no visible sign of infection."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N2First, prevent the virus " FROM MUTATING" into what kind of strain? Does anybody know the range of possible mutation?
Second, 15 roosters and 2 hens don't seem like an enormous self-sacrifice on the part of the DR authorities and poultry producers. I would hardly called the elimination of only 15 roosters and 2 hens a show of an abundance of caution. Why is the number of hens eliminated so paltry?
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 9:36 PM
From: United States, Texas
Notice that Wiki specifies that the 2007 H5N2 outbreak in the USA was most reasssuringly " low-pathogenic."
But what happened in 2007 in Higuey to 15 roosters and 2 hens is reported without a soothing characterization.
Were those 15 roosters in Higuey also " low-pathogenic?"
Were those 2 hens "moderately pathogenic?"
And what about both of them together, were they "highly pathogenic?"
Wiki didn't say one way or the other, perhaps because the DR hasn't said one way or the other.
Written by: Belial, 7 Feb 2008 10:00 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Measures were taken to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading"
0000
Wiping out 15 roosters and 2 hens doesn't sound like "Measures were taken to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading"
Fifteen dead roosters and 2 dead hens seem unlikely to prevent H5N2 from either mutating or spreading.
If the DR authorities had clipped 30 roosters, not only 15, and 4 hens, not just 2, perhaps somebody would believe in their credibility and the efficacy of their measures to prevent mutating and spreading.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
SuperQ, are we clear then on the incorrect application of the DR's constitution as far as citizenship to children born to undocumented migrants? If they have been in the DR for YEARS, then they are NOT in transit, therefore their children should be given Dominican citizenship... This is what the OAS court on Human RIghts found as well.
Written by: Lautaro, 8 Feb 2008 9:19 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
As I said earlier on another forum mr. baldoria, it's useless to hope for a change of the status quo (that of the illegal status of the children of haitian descent) until "La Embajada" assumes a clear stand about the subject to the big business of this country, which are the main opponents of a change. "La Embajada" seems to be the only source from which the big business would take its cue, since they think themselves above international or local laws. It's highly doubtful that "La Embajada" would act against the big business, considering that they need the support of these elites in order to counter an eventual replication of a chavista style of populism on their Caribbean imperial frontier. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of the regularization of those children, but that fact doesn't stop me from being realistic about the situation.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
I hear you loud and clear, Lautaro. The status quo is supported by all sorts of institutional arrangements - some licit and overt, others not so much.
But we cannot retreat to the convenience of being overwhelmed. In the eternal words of Bob Marley:
"The people, who were trying to make this world worse... are not taking a day off. How can I?"
So lets keep pushing and knocking at the door, b/c we're here to make this world better, and they'll have to do something very drastic to stop me from fighting against injustice and oppression.
Written by: Lautaro, 8 Feb 2008 11:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I understand it and support it wholeheartedly, mr. baldoria.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Well, it seems as if I'm taking the day off today :-)
anyone wants to go La Toma de San Cristobal :-)
Written by: SuperQ, 9 Feb 2008 3:41 AM
From: Italy
Baldoria, you've got some distance to go from sanchez to san cristobal!
listen anyways I'll never agree on giving citizenship to undocumented pleople, I don't care if American, Nederlander, Cuban or Haitian.
If you go to Diario Libre's homepage you'll see my comments on an article that talks about we letting in people from Colombia just because they have American or European visa as if we were a colony of one of the last two.
let's say that what I want is some rules to be followed in DR.
From: United States
jemesouviens1804 I will elaborate as you requested: Haiti doesn't need an army, it already has one, Millions of young poor men and women who in an act of desperation cannot be stopped by our police and military combine. Also DR does not have 95,000 soldiers, more like 44,000 last time I checked, which is not fully equip with modern weaponry, and even worse than that, our military is designed to control people within our border, not to defend it against foreign oppressors. Democracy by nature are hard to overthrow, since they are not personal governments such as sultanistic Trujillo dictatorship, whose strength and maintenance are based on the character of the dictator, and that’s the reason why Ramfis could not keep control once his father was dead… he was brat.
From: United States
I don't believe that a strong haiti would be beneficial towards DR since Haitian culture prides it self on its empire... Meaning slave-dominicans. (we share an island remember, it's only us that they can conquer and have conquered in the past.) As Thucydides once said, "The strong do what they have to do and the weak accept what they have to accept.” when Haiti was strong, where was all that sympathy for dominicans that they claim from us today... NO WHERE. And remember for all the bad blood that exist between our people, DR has never invaded Haiti and humiliated them in ther own land. If Haiti wants our respect and that of the world it must first respect itself, it must negociate from a position of strenth not of weakness... what happens to weak people... they get rolled over.. well the same applies to countries.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
Are we not called for a higher purpose than simply "looking out for our own welfare"? Doesn't our concept of justice oblige us to help our fellow man? Where are these christian value that many of YOU pride yourselves in? HYPOCRYTES. You can't claim christian values or to have a society based on justice, and turn around and refuse to help those in need, deny the human rights of so many people. If you want a society that is based on justice, democracy, human rights, equality... then we need to fight for the rights of EACH AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON. Yes this is burdensome, but doing things right usually takes more effort than doing things wrong. Yes we are low on resources, but I recently visited one of the richest man in the DR, and it disgusts me how we bicker about the Haitian situation and ignore these oligarchs who live to exploit, exclude, and oppress US. If you don't believe me, go try to join one of their fancy "clubs" -- only people w/ the proper last name or connection get in.
From: United States
To everyone here, remember what Gandhi said, "The only demonds, are the ones we have around our hearts".
From: United States
HEY BALDORIA23: AYUDATE Y YO TE AYUDARE... BIBLE QUOTE...
Helping countries such as haiti is like dealing with a sick (drug addicted) family member... eventually you just say f... it
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
That old adage, like many biblical "myths", don't come from the bible. Think of the early church, it was more like communism than anything else - I'm not suggestion communism, but rather that the bible commands us to "Believe in God, and love our Neighbor as we do ourselves".
If we were in a foreign land, how would WE want to be treated? would we like to be ridiculed and persecuted? Gente, even if Dominicans are persecuted abroad, are we not called to a higher purpose? What type of society do we want? one in which our most vulnerable people are systematically oppressed, or one which aims to realize and provide people with an opportunity to "salir pa'lante"?
Again- an example of shameless promotion- you should read my article on oppression. In that article I'm challenging us to think beyond the Haitian-Dominican issues, but you guys always go back to that, despite my pleas to realize that oppression and discrimination are present on many levels and against many peoples.
From: United States
Baldoria23
very noble argument... BUT, when dessaline invaded or tussaint louverture, or boyer, where was this sympathy for the people you meant to conquer.... and what happened instead that we were so miserable that we sought to seek outside protection even occupation (UK, France, US, SPAIN)just to be rid of Haiti...
From: Dominican Republic
Let's be clear that the DR policies towards giving the children of Haitian mother's birth certificates is based on racial grounds, not legal ones. Even children of Haitian mothers with LEGAL cedulas are given "pink" registrations from the hospitals. For incription into the "libra rosada". I know of Dominicans with Haitian parents, with cedulas, themselves with Dominican birth certificates who have been denied passports. Why, I don't know, as presumably that would get them out of the country...
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Feb 2008 9:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From what I've heard, mountainannie, this "pink book" practice has been discontinued, because, as in every project on this country, once it loses its novelty, it's discontinued due to "lack of funds", the funds that were supposed to go to that project being used instead on secret payroll lists or "nominillas", from which the politicos in charge of the project finance their clientele on the flag wavings and meetings given in favor of the current president (from whichever party is at power at the time).
From: Dominican Republic
I was just up in Dajabon, interviewing at the hospital and they certainly are using the pink forms for the children of Haitians== although what they are doing with them is unknown. They (the Dominicans) said that the forms have been turned over to the Haitian consul but he has not recieved any. But they are the ones who told me that even if a Haitian has a cedula, even if the father is Dominican, the baby will be registered on the pink form.
From: United States, Long island, NY
To CarlosFranco: Good work brother.....................Duarte, Sanchez y Mella
From: United States
I have to confess, some DR’s do plug their heads between their legs for a night of sleep
From: United States, Long island, NY
To Perception: hi dear HAITIAN brother I was missing your constructive comments already.
Sure We do What You said but always trying to forget what Haitians like you are trying to do to DR.
By the way I have a song on the making so once is ready will be published 100% inspired on your goood faith acts.
The battle is on so get ready dear friend, We see who wins "Wild and backwards" Your people
against "Civilized and proactive" our people
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Este Muro Detrás Estamos ocultar...
"HISPANOLA"
Por Wilgeens Rosenberg
Entre usted y yo,
Es este muro.
Un resentimiento ante nuestros ojos,
Una vergüenza para el mundo.
Detrás de este muro es usted y yo.
No es usted o yo sola,
Pero todo lo que grosero y agradable
Es porque nunca se entienden.
Entre usted y yo,
En la actualidad hay muchos secretos.
Así son las tintas de nuestro orgullo combinado
Nuestros pasados que pueden tener muchos lamenta.
Pero detrás de esta muro es usted y yo.
Nuestras glorias y vergüenza.
El amor y el odio que ocultar,
Pero todavía las preocupaciones son las mismas.
Con este muro, que sólo ocultar Hispanola.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
This Wall Behind We Hide...
"HISPANOLA"
by Wilgeens Rosenberg
Between you and I,
There is this wall.
A resentment before our eyes,
An embarrassment to the world.
Behind this wall is you and I.
Not you or I alone,
But all that is mean and nice
Is why we never get along.
Between you and I,
There are now many secrets.
So are inks of our combined pride
Our pasts which may have many regrets.
But behind this wall is you and I.
Our glories and shame.
The love and hate we share and hide,
But still the worries are the same.
With this wall, we hide only Hispanola.
From: United States
HispanolanoYoSoy,
Wasn't aware of this Poem, thanks to bring it on !!!
I'm in tears !!!!
From: United States, Long island, NY
The head and the legs connection for sleeping might sound so like You sort of speak since You are the one incitating animosity like the class of people that You belong to then You enjoy being the abused "Victim"
First of all that's for "MEDIOCRE" people and second You showing no being a "BRAVE" man.
From: United States
Mike Bellah Quoted:
"Is pride a wall we construct to keep us from feelings of inferiority? Could it also keep us from admitting wrong and consequently from experiencing reconciliation with others? Is inferiority itself a wall we build to protect us from feelings of shame? But does inferiority also wall out the faith that would have us develop new strengths and abilities?
From: United States, Long island, NY
HOLY COW...................................
What are you eating "Perception maybe "DIrt Cookies"
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera, M.T.S.
R. stop being so simple minded. Why don't present an argument instead of simply trying (unsuccessfully) trying to insult people.
WHAT'S you're problem? I guarantee you, you are not the one who loves the Dr the most, else you would not be off in the US just sending emails and not living, suffering to make the DR a better place.
Actually, not having you here makes the DR a better place... how would you feel if all of a sudden everyone around you started treating you the way you presume to treat immigrants in the DR? Just answer that...
Sorry to be so harsh, but I've had a few drinks and my diplomatic skills are at a minimum...
From: United States, Long island, NY
Baldoria23: thanks for Your diplomatic comments but I still insist and will continue fighting here and DR for the inminent threat of balcanization that our Dear and lovely neighbors represent for the Country.
"Everybody has a right of opinion" right or wrong buddy??
Unless that You consider yourself along with your gang to be the "Einsteins" on platet earth Right??
From: United States
Entre usted y yo,
Es este muro.
Un resentimiento ante nuestros ojos,
Una vergüenza para el mundo.
Written by: , 16 Feb 2008 6:05 PM
From:
The problem that exists between the two nations is that they both have their irreconcilable pride, prejudices and resentment from power shifting to the next. Thus over time created this divided WALL.
I mean, who is or was the real enemy here? Is it the Dominicans towards the Haitians? Or is it the Haitians towards the Dominicans? Or is it neither of the two but the invaders of the past who roamed onto the island, and other islands like it in the Caribbean, committed atrocities and genocide and created those differences? Before any of us post absurd comments, we should really conduct a thorough research on the history of first the entire Island as it was before being conquered, during and after.
Then as well as the the history and struggles of Haiti, then the one of Dominicana. Which by the way there would not have been a Dominican Republic has it not been to the great revolt of the Slaves in Haiti regardless of what DR's struggles may have been to gain their
Written by: , 16 Feb 2008 6:06 PM
From:
The problem that exists between the two nations is that they both have their irreconcilable pride, prejudices and resentment from power shifting to the next. Thus over time created this divided WALL. I mean, who is or was the real enemy here? Is it the Dominicans towards the Haitians? Or is it the Haitians towards the Dominicans? Or is it neither of the two but the invaders of the past who roamed onto the island, and other islands like it in the Caribbean, committed atrocities and genocide and created those differences? Before any of us post absurd comments, we should really conduct a thorough research on the history of first th
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
In this case I think the Haitian authorities are in the Wrong, but they have the right to do so, just like we have the right to deny people born here their citizenship-- wait we don't have that right, we just brake rules and international laws :-/
"deny people born here their citizenship"
read the our constitution and learn, I am living in Italy and here, if you are a son of an illigal, you will be denied the italian citizenship, but no one is talking about it, right? let me guess why, oh maybe just 'cause Italy is a 1st world country and it's among the top ten richest countries in the world.
and if I need to get deeper in my remark even if you are a son of 2 legal foreign persons, you don't get the italian citizenship.
Article 1: Todas las personas que nacieren en el territorio de la República, con excepción de los hijos legítimos de los extranjeros residentes en el país en representación diplomática o los que están de tránsito en él.
(see I know the constitution)... If someone who has been here Years and Years, without formal work permit, are they in transition? The constitution is wonderfully vague about this, and the consequences are even greater when you realize that you need a birth-certificate to go to middle school.
Ok, you say that you're in Italy does not provide automatic citizenship for people born on Italian territory; but it gives people who have never stepped in italy (the diaspora) citizenship. Forget about legality, does this seem fair to you? Moreover, Italy favors "jus sanguinis", but the DR doesn't b/c we are a nation of immigrants.
Tell me what you
Dominican officials say "there is no virus TRUST ME"
I rather trust the words from a serial killer than from this goverment, with all their "thrustfull" statements (like at first the denial of the virus) in the last year that every time created a (small) disaster and that very good is in after-error reactions like "at that moment we did not have the correct info"
And this comes even more clear in statements as
"We will give them the certification ... along with the paralyzation" of the market, said by Freddy Morillo, president of the Dominican Association of Egg Distributors
Sorry mr. Morillo, are the Haitians still "slaves" who have to do what YOU want, without having their own opinion ? ... prob it figures ......
Venezuela is close to seal the final deal so We could trade chickens and eggs for oil...............
Let's see at the end what happens.................PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE
Monday is Carnival in northern Haiti so there would not be much trade anyway.
This will probably be resolved when the Dominicans decide to cross over into Haiti to sell their eggs. Now the market is only on the DR side of the border.
It does seem an odd way to treat one's customers. Sort of like the anti-customer service that one gets in some stores and restuarants here- as if they are doing you a favor, letting you spend your money.
It is really an eye opener for the DR to see that Haitian actually can close its own borders.
People who are not economicaly astute tend to discount the tremendous benefit of cheap labor.
Companies/Business owners are not going to miraculously raise wages to give Dominicans jobs.
They wil pack their "stuff" and move on to a better market or just downsize.
Hispaniola, nice to say !!!!
I don't get your envy towards Dominican Republic, I know why you want HISPANIOLA
because Your and your fellow countrymen destroyed everything on your side.
HA HA HA HA....................................................eat better so you could think better
You want to have What We have: prosperity, investments , infrastructure and development.
You need to sweat and work hard to achieve this on your side of the island
Rubirosa, why are you so filled with hate, xenophobia, and discrimination? Have you never been discriminated against? If yes, how did it make you feel? and why do you want others to feel that way?
We are a nation that exports labor, we should be more understanding and compationate.
Rubirosa, your comments embarrass me.
But I defend your right to express them, so keep sharing. Maybe one day we'll reach a midpoint of justice, equity, and peace.
Oui, Oui, Oui, Merci mille fois, Je tiens à vous exprimer notre gratitude, Je vous adresse mes plus vifs remerciements, east habitans of Hispaniola Remerciez-le de ma part, Remerciez-le de ma part pour les gallinee. Gracias por los Pollos, estan bien ricos, pero mandalos mas gorditos por favor, porque los ultimos estban flacos, y con "Moquillo".
A tinne Bauusse Monsieur. (Arab) Viva La Hispaniola !!!!!!!!
On a more serious tone, both of you need to rethink your positions: Rubirosa = isolationist views that are impossible to apply due to the interdependence of both countries' economies. While Perception = Political union that can't be applied, at least not without a long, costly and risky process of accomodation that both countries are not in a position to implement right now (At least not without some seriou$$$$$$$, and honest, international backing, because, if you haven't been noticing, Haiti have 200 years being a no man's land battlefield). Only when both countries find themselves on the same economical footing, and most of all, looking at each other without any trace of suspicion and distrust, would be the time to take up such a step.
I recall something that "Ganghi" used to say to the Hindus & the Muslims, "The only demons, are the ones we have around our Hearts",.
I was recently visiting Santo Domingo, and I saw with my owns eyes a Haitian mother in Naco with two little children picking food from the garbage and feeding them. We all know, the supression in wich this people has live forever, because in the past Frenchs & Spaniards differences. And thats where all this hates comes from, I know its best for the island to work together and exploit their potencial above past history. I do not believe on extrems, but I did have a lot of fun bullying (Rubirosa), because people like him don't get it. I do understand Nacionalistics feelings, I did once, but how can you fight the unavoidable "Globalization".
I understand that you have a lot of hope for Dominican/Haitian relationship but do you seriously think that if Toussaint Louverture was still alive now, he would want Haiti to unify with the Dominican Republic. 100,000 of my ancesters did not die in a 13 year war to sell themselves to the Dominican Republic when that country hates and wants nothing to do with us. This is no longer 1821. This was tried before and it failed. Haitians speak French/Creole, Dominicans speak Spanish. Haiti has a large African/French culture, Dominicans have Spanish culture. In essence it will never, ever work out. I rather have Haiti stay a poor country than unite with D.R. and be prosperous. Haiti is for Haitians and Dominican Republic is for Dominicans.
Forget what your teachers told you when you where growing up, because it was all lies, big lies, only France and Spain interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DR should be concentrating on building confidence internationally in the wholesomeness of its chicken and eggs based on scientific investigation and data, not sniveling that the Haitians are less eager to dine on suspicious DR chickens and eggs than DR citizens who don't seem to object to the chicken flu.
The DR exports dirt-cheap chickens to the USA ... as well as to Haiti ... and imports expensive or upscale chicken from the USA.
What has been the US stance on the now suspicious DR chicken?
Some US chickens have also caught the flu. Since the DRs love expensive US chickens, the DRs naturally feel that the Haitians should also be undiscriminating about what they pay for and eat.
The US has tried to assure the DRs with scientific data that most of the expensive or upscale US chickens are safe.
The DR should follow the US imperialist example.
I think you have Zero personality as a human being, man or woman and whatever else you are,
(nationatilty).
Fatcts are there Dominican Rep is growing in every aspect and investments will continue regarding your venom and bad feelings.
I am a crusader against all injustice towards Dominican Republic and its citizens, whether you and other people like or not BE IT.
Do you know the meaning of bravery, guts, pride, hard working, family values, successful mind driven.
You don't have all these values so stop dreaming and getting high
The DR is not on the US embargo list.
Readers may not remember or may not know that an outbreak of swine flu here in the DR in 1982 resulted in the US pressuring Haiti to slaughter all the creole pigs. And sink into even deeper poverty.
Can you, JRRubirosa, do the same? that is, be big enough to learn from others, and just allow for the remote possibility that none of us have the entire Truth? Oh and that the wonderful education, media, and government info we get may be presenting biased accounts that shape our outlook? By listening to others we are able to check all the biased info we get on an everyday basis. But I think you need to start by defining your normative goals - what do you want- justice, human rights, etc?
I give you credit for being passive and mean well, Sometimes I would try to ignore and think the way that you do.
Remember something "to defeat a monster you never become one" but with the haitians brothers (Most of the ones) that express their opinions everything is against DR.
I love facts and right opinions, but you know something it comes to a point that too much is too much.
Haitians express their opinions as their please in this and other forums and I'm feed up with the same opinions (dominicans are racist, they don't deserve this, their side of the island belong to us, Juan Pablo Duarte was a racist, Leonel fernandez is not good "same president that is helping them out too much" and which I dont care because they have their right of opinon too)
Funny thing is when they try to teach, preach or tell history, statistics or facts that "I ALREADY KNOW"
0000
Since I asked the this question earlier, thanks for your answer.
Do you have a link in support of your answer?
FYI: If DR and dominicans are so bad, racist and xenophobic why people like Miss perception want to unite the island, why so many haitians move to our side, why so many haitian women are being taken care of in our hospitals so they could have their babies, why Sonia Pierre is discreding our country.
I only see in Dominican Republic investments building infraestructure and doing our best to improve what We can.
We want peaceful communitcation as long as Haitians don't push us around other that this
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/embargo.htm
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE EAT !!!!!
Maybe it is all infected, "official" research cannot be trusted, the Haitians don't want our eggs and chicken and i guess they have a reason for that, what is happening to us ....
HELLLLLLLLPPPPP !!!
0000
DR, Haiti Negotiating to End Dispute
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={31AFC4C2-7148-416E-B7EF-4DF6B8460AB4})&language=EN
Santo Domingo, Feb 2 (Prensa Latina) The possibility of ending Dominican-Haitian dispute revived Sunday with the visit of a technical delegation on which depends the end to the poultry products ban imposed on the eastern neighbor.
The visitors, led by Haitian Agriculture Minister Joanas Gue finished a round of conversations with a Dominican team to elaborate sanitary norms that will allow resumption of sales of chickens and eggs in border markets.
On Friday, one of the two days of fairs along the common borders, the Dominican western locality of Barahona decided to boycott that fairs until the situation is solved.
Haiti decreed four weeks ago an entry ban on Dominican poultry products after detecting several animals infected with avian flu in the locality of Higuey.
Con't
This chicken crisis betwen the DR and Haiti has the marks of a CIA disruption and disdirection operation.
There are the usual national chauvinist fools and buffoons on both sides, transparently coordinating their activities, trying with all of their powers, to create a divide based on perceived biological, moral, and intellectual peculiarities of each sde of the squabble.
You got this one right !!!!
PSYCH-OPS. (End of my shift)
Have a nice day!. ALL
Why so much shame about people from Haitia telling the world where they are from is always easy to say I"M FROM THE US so that give you automatic right to bully My country.
You see I'm not afraid to show my true colors right and left, but never hide my identity behind another nationality to enforce and push anybody's agenda that's plain and simple COWARDICE.
No more extra-innings, one of your buddys call you xenophobic, not me. With your remarks, your the one bullying DR, don't you see it.
Stop spitting up, its falling all over you !!!!!! and your flooding DR'S DAMS.
Was you using your helmet, when you hit the wall !!!!!
H5N2 cannot be transmitted through cooked chicken or eggs. only live bird to live bird.
It will take nothing, absolutety nothing for the "Virus" to wipe out half of third world countries population.
I'm for containning Dominican poultry to one side of the Island. Knowing that even mutated!!!!, containment wont stop the spreading.
Lessons: Haiti and DR successfully negotiated this situation, so all the "war-mungers" should really take a step back and eat crow. This situation was handled excellently by both gov's. Reactionary factions calling for boycotts failed in their efforts to make this into an ugly situation.
For those who deny Haiti's rights to control the goods that are imported into Haiti - this is a usual thing that countries do to protect its internal markets, and also to protect the safety of their people (e.g. the "poisoned" toys from China).
So next time, take a step back, encourage dialogue btw the two countries, and don't react so quickly. Rubirosa, keep on with your comments, just be nic
If you are in a country illigal, your son can't be given the citizenship of the country you are in. what do you have to say about what Italy does about it?
if you are a son of a legal haitian then you are a Dominican, it's as easy as ABC my man!
Plus, just because the constitution says something -as in the case of Italy, Germany, Austria and other "old" countries - it does not make it fair,just, or in-line with Human RIghts standard. Remember that Apartheid in South Africa was constitutional; and the exclusion of women from voting... BUt these constitutional components can hardly be called fair, just, or democratic.
It is our responsibility, as citizens of this earth fighting for a better world to identify and combat injustice, even when these are legitimized through "legal" channels.
Otherwise send Carlos Morales Troncoso (DR Foreign relations peon) to argue the matter in front of the United Nations, and I bet you everyone its going to threw him bananas.
This legal terms, exist since the "Roman Empire". An DR its different. JA jA jA
cappicce.
if you are working for 3 years without permitt to stay, you are illigal.
ask dominicans in USA if they can work without green card, or if a hospital gives them assistance without a healthcare insurance!
Ask Dominicans, Mexicans and many Immigrants, I will say most of them, thats how they became US citizens, beside their Naturalized parents.
0000
In 2007, M. Moore, the filmmaker, alleged in the blockbuster "Sicko" that even US citizens need insurance documents to get into most US hospitals.
However, the film "Sicko" was not about the lack of documents but their futility. Moore showed case after case where US citizens ...WITH DOCUMENTS ... were denied treatment and kicked out of the US hospitals because their insurance company denied coverage.
It is possible, as you suggest, that illegal immigrants in the USA have superior access to most US hospitals than insured and uninsured US citizens, but your contention ... to say the least ... is somewhat novel.
0000
When a hospital tells ambulance services not to bring in certain categories of patients -- e.g., homeless, Medicare, undocumented, and uninsured, how does hospital know ... before the hospital examines the patients and sometimes months before the onset of the patient's medical problem ... that the patients in these categories don't need "basic care" rather than "certain services?"
Perhaps, the ambulance services deny "basic care" from these hospitals.
oooo
You're right.
But the chicken and the eggs do pose some health concerns, at least the Haitians seem to think so.
But, frankly, I don't see the connection between these Hiatian health concerns over the DR's chicken and eggs and the restricted admission policies of some emergency rooms in the USA.
"In late 2007 (December 21), an H5N2 outbreak was found in the Dominican Republic, in a Suburb of Higuey City, on the eastern side of the island. 15 roosters and 2 hens where eliminated even though they had no visible sign of infection."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N2
First, prevent the virus " FROM MUTATING" into what kind of strain? Does anybody know the range of possible mutation?
Second, 15 roosters and 2 hens don't seem like an enormous self-sacrifice on the part of the DR authorities and poultry producers. I would hardly called the elimination of only 15 roosters and 2 hens a show of an abundance of caution. Why is the number of hens eliminated so paltry?
But what happened in 2007 in Higuey to 15 roosters and 2 hens is reported without a soothing characterization.
Were those 15 roosters in Higuey also " low-pathogenic?"
Were those 2 hens "moderately pathogenic?"
And what about both of them together, were they "highly pathogenic?"
Wiki didn't say one way or the other, perhaps because the DR hasn't said one way or the other.
0000
Wiping out 15 roosters and 2 hens doesn't sound like "Measures were taken to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading"
Fifteen dead roosters and 2 dead hens seem unlikely to prevent H5N2 from either mutating or spreading.
If the DR authorities had clipped 30 roosters, not only 15, and 4 hens, not just 2, perhaps somebody would believe in their credibility and the efficacy of their measures to prevent mutating and spreading.
But we cannot retreat to the convenience of being overwhelmed. In the eternal words of Bob Marley:
"The people, who were trying to make this world worse... are not taking a day off. How can I?"
So lets keep pushing and knocking at the door, b/c we're here to make this world better, and they'll have to do something very drastic to stop me from fighting against injustice and oppression.
anyone wants to go La Toma de San Cristobal :-)
listen anyways I'll never agree on giving citizenship to undocumented pleople, I don't care if American, Nederlander, Cuban or Haitian.
If you go to Diario Libre's homepage you'll see my comments on an article that talks about we letting in people from Colombia just because they have American or European visa as if we were a colony of one of the last two.
let's say that what I want is some rules to be followed in DR.
Helping countries such as haiti is like dealing with a sick (drug addicted) family member... eventually you just say f... it
If we were in a foreign land, how would WE want to be treated? would we like to be ridiculed and persecuted? Gente, even if Dominicans are persecuted abroad, are we not called to a higher purpose? What type of society do we want? one in which our most vulnerable people are systematically oppressed, or one which aims to realize and provide people with an opportunity to "salir pa'lante"?
Again- an example of shameless promotion- you should read my article on oppression. In that article I'm challenging us to think beyond the Haitian-Dominican issues, but you guys always go back to that, despite my pleas to realize that oppression and discrimination are present on many levels and against many peoples.
very noble argument... BUT, when dessaline invaded or tussaint louverture, or boyer, where was this sympathy for the people you meant to conquer.... and what happened instead that we were so miserable that we sought to seek outside protection even occupation (UK, France, US, SPAIN)just to be rid of Haiti...
Sure We do What You said but always trying to forget what Haitians like you are trying to do to DR.
By the way I have a song on the making so once is ready will be published 100% inspired on your goood faith acts.
The battle is on so get ready dear friend, We see who wins "Wild and backwards" Your people
against "Civilized and proactive" our people
"HISPANOLA"
Por Wilgeens Rosenberg
Entre usted y yo,
Es este muro.
Un resentimiento ante nuestros ojos,
Una vergüenza para el mundo.
Detrás de este muro es usted y yo.
No es usted o yo sola,
Pero todo lo que grosero y agradable
Es porque nunca se entienden.
Entre usted y yo,
En la actualidad hay muchos secretos.
Así son las tintas de nuestro orgullo combinado
Nuestros pasados que pueden tener muchos lamenta.
Pero detrás de esta muro es usted y yo.
Nuestras glorias y vergüenza.
El amor y el odio que ocultar,
Pero todavía las preocupaciones son las mismas.
Con este muro, que sólo ocultar Hispanola.
"HISPANOLA"
by Wilgeens Rosenberg
Between you and I,
There is this wall.
A resentment before our eyes,
An embarrassment to the world.
Behind this wall is you and I.
Not you or I alone,
But all that is mean and nice
Is why we never get along.
Between you and I,
There are now many secrets.
So are inks of our combined pride
Our pasts which may have many regrets.
But behind this wall is you and I.
Our glories and shame.
The love and hate we share and hide,
But still the worries are the same.
With this wall, we hide only Hispanola.
Wasn't aware of this Poem, thanks to bring it on !!!
I'm in tears !!!!
First of all that's for "MEDIOCRE" people and second You showing no being a "BRAVE" man.
"Is pride a wall we construct to keep us from feelings of inferiority? Could it also keep us from admitting wrong and consequently from experiencing reconciliation with others? Is inferiority itself a wall we build to protect us from feelings of shame? But does inferiority also wall out the faith that would have us develop new strengths and abilities?
What are you eating "Perception maybe "DIrt Cookies"
WHAT'S you're problem? I guarantee you, you are not the one who loves the Dr the most, else you would not be off in the US just sending emails and not living, suffering to make the DR a better place.
Actually, not having you here makes the DR a better place... how would you feel if all of a sudden everyone around you started treating you the way you presume to treat immigrants in the DR? Just answer that...
Sorry to be so harsh, but I've had a few drinks and my diplomatic skills are at a minimum...
"Everybody has a right of opinion" right or wrong buddy??
Unless that You consider yourself along with your gang to be the "Einsteins" on platet earth Right??
Es este muro.
Un resentimiento ante nuestros ojos,
Una vergüenza para el mundo.
I mean, who is or was the real enemy here? Is it the Dominicans towards the Haitians? Or is it the Haitians towards the Dominicans? Or is it neither of the two but the invaders of the past who roamed onto the island, and other islands like it in the Caribbean, committed atrocities and genocide and created those differences? Before any of us post absurd comments, we should really conduct a thorough research on the history of first the entire Island as it was before being conquered, during and after.
Then as well as the the history and struggles of Haiti, then the one of Dominicana. Which by the way there would not have been a Dominican Republic has it not been to the great revolt of the Slaves in Haiti regardless of what DR's struggles may have been to gain their