somehow I told you so just dont cut it...Lets see if they still mad that we not eating their infected chickens.

Bara Bin Bom Ban, where is Rubirosa. The chickens appeared to have been smuggled into the country aboard a private boat from Puerto Rico, said Luis Rafael Cedeno, agriculture director for the country's eastern region. Yea, a Yola coming back after smugling some illegals, free trade Cool.....
Now they want to blame PR, somebody smuggled the chickens from PR JA JA JA JA men this is funny, do they have a video so I can send this to Comedy Central..............Stupidity................Dominican standards equal the president they have "Leonel". By the way anyone know who publish this media, they're great, at least is interactive and in English.

Shaking my head as I said yesterday..should I tell them..well, here it is.. I guess someone did their research and providing us (readers) with adequate information without bias. I would like to thank the haitian government for standing their ground and taking care of her people. I also want to thank the reporter who decided to put this out on dominican today. Hope the dominican government (poultry sector) doesn't come down on you for this..Be careful and great job...Perception..please keep it clean and respectful........

Everybody seems to be ignoring the sick US chickens which started the problem.

Plus, the killing of only a couple hundred chickens in the DR makes it looks like the DRs are NOT really concerned with sick chickens.

Just because DRs like to dine on sick chickens is no reason my the Haitians should eat them.

[I left "NOT" out earlier in my haste.]

To Perception: I will Hold my grounds so far and wait for the final investigation, I know Your HATE against Dominican Republic, You want the country to compete head to head with yours.

You get happy when something bad happens and mad when something good happens in DR.

"God always prevail over Devil" We see at the end which side You are, I already know which one I am.

Anyway speaking out of religion and from man to man or man to woman, let's see because you are on the wild side of the jungle so I believe you have lots of spare time to spew your toxic and polluted venom.

Let me tell you something BUDDY I really enjoy when you get hypher and all intoxicated chanting "Hispaniola, Hispaniola, Hispaniola" Very childish EH

I think that I know your problem, You have a very low self esteem personality problem.

"Feel sorry for you and being pathetic"

Everybody say that Im a crusader against all common sense

I'm just a crusader against people like you

Here’s the problem. The Dominican authority is shameless. Any half educated person would be embarrassed for even trying to say the chickens were ‘smuggled’ into the country. But not them.

This will not stop them; they will continue with the lie and make more outrageous statements. Soon the chickens will have flown in from China, by themselves.

The Dominican Republic has generations before they have their hubris attitude weeded out.

My God, we Dominicans are a sad lot like our leaders!

Somehow I'm not that terribly surprised that this news would leak out, mr. jabao, considering that we're talking here about the same authorities which had the nerve to be on an electoral flag waving the same day that the island was drowning on the waters brought by Noel, or the same ones which with their mismanagement of the Tavera Dam caused untold death and destruction to visit dominicans and haitians alike on the communities outside Santiago during the storm Olga. I guess that they're thinking with the same reasoning of the spanish ex-president Aznar when Chavez asked him about the future fate of the haitian nation on the international communities plans: "Esos se jodieron". Can anybody get more insensitive than that?

I agree, for the Dominicans to minimize the potential epidemic possible with the Avian flu is unconscionable and irresponsible. Instead of acting like a child, which is always their first reaction, take responsibility and mitigate the risk, transparently.

Unfortunately, responsibility/accountability is another trait they lack and will be long time coming.

Belial;
Again you have put your foot into your mouth from your lower extremities.
The "Avian Flu" originated in your Glorius Communist Country of CHINA.
From there it has spread out all over theworld.
For you to say that it "originated in the USA" is ludicrous and unfounded.
I f you're going to quote FACTS, quote them CORRECTLY and quit blaming theWORLD's ILLS on your MOTHER COUNTRY.

TB

"For you to say that it "originated in the USA" is ludicrous and unfounded," TB rants and foams at the mouth.

0000

TB, you are comprehension-challenged.

Here's what I wrote earlier in this thread "Everybody seems to be ignoring the sick US chickens which started the problem."

The problem I alluded to is the current export of sick chickens from the DR to Haiti.

There is evidence published in "Today" as well as elsewhere that the sick Chickens in the DR caught the flu from sick chickens imported from Puerto Rico.

Lamentably, PR is a colony of the US regime and FDA exercises jurisdiction over its food and drugs.

On these premises, I found that the problem started with sick US chickens.

And somehow, you flew off to China .

As for the Chinese origin of the bird flu:

The Asian H5N1 virus was first detected in Guangdong Province, China, in 1996, when it killed some geese, but it received little attention until it spread through live-poultry markets in Hong Kong to humans in May 1997, killing 6 of 18 infected persons. From 1997 to May 2005, H5N1 viruses were largely confined to Southeast Asia, but after they had infected wild birds in Qinghai Lake, China, they rapidly spread westward. The intermittent spread to humans will continue, and the virus will continue to evolve."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1

H5N1 is the fast-mutating and highly pathogenic strain of the flu that gets the birds and people.

Outbreaks in birds (causing at least thousands but in some cases millions of dead birds) are (in order of first outbreak occurrence):

Korea, Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Turkey, Romania, Croatia, Ukraine, Cyprus, Iraq, Nigeria, Egypt, India, France, Niger, Bosnia, Azerbaijan, Albania, Cameroon, Myanmar, Afghanistan, Israel, Pakistan, Jordan, Burkina Faso, Germany, Sudan, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Hungary, United Kingdom, Kuwait, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia, Ghana, Czech Republic, Togo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_spread_of_H5N1

Dominican authorities made the statement that the virus was from fighting roosters imported from Puerto rice. This, of course is an adulterated lie.

Just as I was about to say that the ban was put in place for too long I realize that the Haitian gov't did the right thing. All those Dominicans that on previous articles were bashing Haitians because they kept the ban on them. Their eating their words right now. USDA approved this and approved that....please. Until it can be 100% confirmed by several health organizations and other countries that the DR's poultry produce is clean the ban should remain.

"Dominican authorities made the statement that the virus was from fighting roosters imported from Puerto rice. This, of course is an adulterated lie."

0000

I wouldn't be surprised.

But there some corroborating evidence for the suspect statement.

There are now reports of some sick birds in PR and not just sick fighting roosters

I suppose the PR authorities will soon say that the virus was from sick hens imported from DR.

TB, on this board, already blames China.

So Belial, you implying that the US intentionally introduced to DR thru PR maliciously, “the Avian Flu” like a “Weapon of Mass Destruction”. Its hard to believe, not even cost efficient to bring few live chickens from PR to DR and less smuggled it. If there’s a record of an “import”, then graciously I will accept our fault, and I will go for the repayment!!!!!, but in the meantime, lets blame it to the migrating of birds to the area.

Just look at the whole picture, a “Yola with twenty chickens tie by the legs, laying in the salty boat floor, or perhaps, a Chris Craft Yacht, that the owner likes to keep his chicken live, because he detest frozen ones” Or perhaps, somebody came with the brilliant idea of stocking US bills trough their behinds, so they can go undetected.

That’s why I stick to my “Arian”, cold, calculated way of thinking, lets not jump to the blaming game, because if DR its going to demonize PR, DR has more to loose than Haiti. DR do depend in PR dough every month

It is much more important to recognize the fact that Avian Flu exists in the Dominican Republic and not to threaten the Haitians for not lifting the ban. Do, transparent, exhaustive testing of all live stock.

It is well known, that both Avian and Swine virus flues originate mostly in Asia. They believe it is the close proximity of humans and animals. What they are most afraid of is the virus mutating from animals to humans. Several of these viruses have the capability of killing tens of millions on people.

Cont.

due “Remesas”. So, don’t bring the attention of the issue to you tail, because the lion can bite you.

we are not here for the history lesson the flu is here
now fix the problem
1 diinfect aircraft before landing especially from europe
2. spray aircraft when stoped
3. KILL ALL THE BIRDS WITHIN 10 MILES OF THE INFECTED BIRDS TO START

"So Belial, you implying that the US intentionally introduced to DR thru PR malicious..."

0000

I neither said nor implied nor hinted that PR's sick chickens ... whether fighting roosters or accommodating hens ... were intentionally or knowingly sent to the DR, although I don't deny this.

All that I said was that there are reports that the earliest batch of sick birds came from PR. Then, after their arrival, the some DR birds came down with the blues.

But what I haven't said should not be imputed to me.

The DR and Haiti thing is now however another matter, because it seems that the DR authorities were the first to disclose the problem with the birds.

To remove the cloud of international suspicion, the DR should invite a team(s) of independent scientific experts to look at the DR birds ... take their temperature or something ... and then say "Fry them and eat 'em."

The "Trust me, the birds are fine," that the DR now says, smacks of a self-serving revelation.

Belial remarks; I neither said nor implied nor hinted that PR's sick chickens ... whether fighting roosters or accommodating hens ... were intentionally or knowingly sent to the DR, although I don't deny this.

Luis Rafael Cedeno, agriculture director for the country's eastern region say's so!!!!!!! Where is the proof?. Then, I will agree with you mister.

What do they do with infected birds in the first world countries? Do the same thing here and remove all reasons for this paranoia. All of the conspiracy theories are so much BS. The government needs to act responsibly as a full fledged member of the international community. As a country we owe it to ourselves and everyone else including Haiti to do what is right. Enough already!!!!!!!!!!!

It is quite a coincidence that as soon as Venezuela asks the DR for all of its chicken and egg exports, the chicken and the eggs reportedly come down with the blues.

About 72.6 percent of DR's exports ... which are mostly agricultural ... go to the USA
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....-world-factbook/geos/dr.html#Econ

Historically, the US regime has been very much involved in the outbreaks of animal flu and other maladies of DR livestock, like, for example, the vicious swine flu outbreak in the 1980's.

Today, we don't hear a peep or even a beep from the US imperialist regime and their omniscient experts on chickens and eggs.

The lead imperialist agencies on the bureaucratic side of the problem, if any exists, seems to be the Department of Health and Human Services which supervises the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta and, of course, the Office of the Surgeon General.

FDA meat inspectors seem to be left out of the picture.

Had anyone ask themselves, What came first the Chicken or the egg? or in a Dominican way, how the water got inside the NUT?

Free Enterprise its the Answer!!!! We have choices in the US, not in DR.

But, Belial, we can certainly depend on you to set us straight about the FDA, and other Departments within the US Governmetnt and to NOT give them credit for the work they do in tracking deseases, identifying contaminated meats, veggies, toys, etc. which your Perfect Chinese Masters send to the USA each day. It would seem, according to you, that the SOLE producer of illnesses and contamination emanate exclusively from the USA contrary to reports surfacing daily.
I won't say that the FDA couldn't do a better job, which they could do with adequate funding from Congress, which has seeigly abrogated their responsibilities along those lines. Hopefully this past year of surfacing inadequacieswill give them a "wake-up" call to do just that and to thereby eliminate the threat to US Society by Chinese goods which threaten the health of US citizens through unsupeervised and inadequate quality control. This also affects all of China's other trading partners equally.
TB

To Perception: You have choices with the dirt cookies, you don't have money or resources or credibility to get credit.

You get handouts from the internationtal community that means you must get what you offered from other developed countries.

Think clear dear friend you are dreaming too much, your hate against dominicans doesn't let you think straight.

Once again look around where you live and notice what you achieve so far or has to offer to mankind.

Look at the facts no your personal illusions, Haiti right now is in big trouble and there is no means to buy anything without money on your bank reserves.

Have a nice day!

Belial:
Quoting you from your poss.
"Everybody seems to be ignoring the sick US chickens which started the problem."
"I neither said nor implied nor hinted that PR's sick chickens ... whether fighting roosters or accommodating hens ... were intentionally or knowingly sent to the DR, although I don't deny this."

First, you say "US" chickens, then you say "PR's sick chickens". Then you go even further and "back-peddle, saying that you "neither said nor implied---- were intentionally or knowingly sent, etc., etc.
So, just what was the intention of your remarks? Hummmm?
It wouldseem to me hat you were taking factsourt of context to make your point andthen reversed yourself andyour opinionwhen you met with intense opposition, ie, caught in the original misreresentation.

Then you attribute the causes of other "maladies" occuring in the DR to the US? When, may I ask ,did the US import pigs to the DR? And were those alledged pigs live or dead? Were they breeding stock? Were they sent here on purpose, as you imply? And to what end were they sent here?
This "running gun battle" between us has gotten way out of hand, pardner and I, for one, think it time both of us begin to offer suggestions and solutions toward solving some of the problems which beset this Republic instead of wasting our time toward convincing the other of our positions which are vastly different. The latter we will never accomplish, don'tyou agree?
Neither of us will ever "throw in the towell" and that is not my suggestion at all. I'm saying that our effectiveness and contributions have been degraded by our exchanges. That is all. What say? Do you want to do that, or you impelled to continue in the same manner as in thepast?
It's up to you.

TB

TB, you are casting pearls before swine. Belial has no intention of focusing debate on the issues. He has too much invested in his petty psuedo theories. As I said before, his only contributions are the red herrings he throws into the discussions. Always US being the bad guy, always anyone with differing opinions criticised, always ready with a plagerized remark, always something negative instead of examining positive solutions. Every second spent rebuking belial's red herrings is a second wasted. TB, you have too many good ideas to spend your time chasing belial's disinformation. Ignore him and perhaps he will go away, but even if he doesn't, don't waste your valuable time responding to his ludicrous ideas.

The real solution is this:
If the "flu" is detected in a farmer's hutch of chickens, then destroy the entire flock and disinfect the premises.
But, don't leave the farmer to suffer theconsequences of that action.
Buy him another flock, at government expense, and replace the feed previously used.
That way the farmer won't be left in a "bankrupt" position.
Check the adjacent farms for suspicious chickens andif the"flu" symptoms are detected, take the same action as before.
Just don't leave the farmers with no way to recoup their losses created by the incursion of the virus.
The Dominican Government too frequently doesn't take adequate actions to alleviate emergency conditions and to mitigate the incidents that occur.
This deficiency is something that they need to pursue vigorously.

TB

Texasbill: You have very professional and scientific opinions, my respect for you Sir.

Like Marie Antonitte said let them [Haitains] eat eggs!

I believe on reason the DR government is slow in responding to emergencies is the incompetent beaucracy that cronism creates. Because there are so many appointments based solely on politics there are many within the government that do nothing but sit on their hands (while clutching their butts) and collect a pay check. This situation has a profound effect, not only in the way the government responds to emergenies, but also how the people perceive their government and their distrust of all policies that come out of it. This beaucracy is the primary cause of many problems, and it doesn't seem to matter what party is in power. As long as appointments are made based on politics this will be the result.

Davidjule, you sir are a breath of fresh air. you seem to hit nails squarely on the heads. the country is laden with political drones who aggravate rather than alleviate the problems which arise

To all concerned Haitians: Why You care so much about Dominican Republic when You don't have political power, hate dominicans, Don't care about your own problems, Don't care about the enviroment in Haiti, don't show anyhing positive to the international community so you Can be trusted, everything is color of the skin and why France and all UN countries have to cater to Haiti for no reason.

I would waist 20 brain cells in repeating myself once again, I personally want Haiti to change for good but Haitians don't help themselves showing anything positive to the world.

Evertyhing in all forums in Dominicantoday is about Haitians directing their hate against Dominicans and why they live on poverty.

Why countries lilke Sweeden, Iceland, Norway, Denmark and Switzerland set the tone for civilization, because they are always striving to be EXCELLENT nothing else they are 100% WHITE and never related themselves to race, religion or ignorance.

(Cont) eventhough they are WHITE, CATHOLIC and WEALTHY.

Haiti has a low self esteem problem among its citizens that always focus on race to find an scapegoat to feel better.

What about Southafrica..............................

I'm doing my best to be civilized before is too late for Haiti and their hopefully noble and innocent citizens.

If will come to an end that if You (Haitians) don't want to grow up as responsible citizens the rest of the planet will ignore you and once you destroy yourselfs "Who are you going to blame other than yourselfs for being unresponsible"

actually, JRRubirosa, i hardly think that Scandinavia and Switzerland are considered catholic countries. i think you should double-check that info.

Rubirosa, Perhaps you don't hear yourself talk. I have been following these exchanges quietly for a while. You are the one who seems constantly obsessed with the issue of race. Hope you are able to take a step back and examine you own writings.

Mr. dread is right, JRRubirosa, because from what I have last read and heard, Scandinavia and Switzerland are mainly PROTESTANT countries (although Switzerland have a sizeable Catholic population), and that they're successful because they do not allow the Vatican Curia to interfere on their local politics, as it's the case on our beautiful but unlucky country.

this article is NOT about scandanavia and switzerland's religious beliefs! and it most certaintly not about racism! you all are ridiculous! it is about sick chickens that the people of haiti do not want to eat! think about this: if haiti was exporting cows to the DR, and they were found to have Mad Cow Disease, do you honestly think that the DR would not place a ban on Haitian cows? THE PEOPLE IN HAITI DO NOT WANT TO EAT SICK CHICKENS! All the DR needs to do is figure out the problem, and then Haiti will again return to buying their chickens! The people of the DR need to quit whing about the fact that Haiti si not buying their chickens, and worry more about fixing the problem.

and i am not from either country. i am a white male from ohio who has zero bias! jst fix the chicken problem!

bearcat, I agree with you, but I do think it is instructive to see how every discussion eventually comes around to the underlying animosities between these two countries. Perhaps nothing meaningful can change until those issues are resolved.

By the way, is it as cold and snowy in Ohio as it is in New Hampshire?

I'll never forgive you guys for being a Red state.
Just kidding - to make a point.

haha, i like your comment about ohio, and i am assuming it is not nearly as snowy in cincinnati as it is where you are from.

i also DO agree that the underlying issue is the negative attitudes both countries have for one another. I just get really frustrated when people in a discussion try to avoid the topic at hand.

a baby step maybe?: instead of the DR complaining so much about the haitian ban, tell haiti that they will fix it as soon as possible? This seems like it woiuld be much better than all that hatred flowing back and forth. if the situation was reversed and Haiti had an infected product, the DR certaintly would not want it to come across their borders either.

maybe that is why i am not a haitian politician or dominican citiznen. ha

I certainly agree with you on that score. I don't understand how that type of virulent discussion became the norm. All the shouting back and forth with no one listening drives me nuts, but if you can get beyond those things it's pretty interesting. I guess the US media is partially to blame, with all the hate talk shows, and the mindless rantings by anyone and everyone who thinks the louder they yell the more their innane proclamations will be accepted. In any event, for the most part, these forums are a pretty good source of information and a way to consider differing points of view. But, can't we all just get along?

Why color people get sensitive when anybody talk about white countries????

The point that i wanted to implied was that if this WHITE countries did it, it shouldn't be any difference between BLACK and WHITE when in comes to achieve goals since at the end We all are human beings.

Everyday I reinforce the stigma that black people like to be victims of themselves.

I never tried to imply superiority but to compare goals, if Norway did it, why our neighbors CAN'T..

I was right about my thinking and 1,000 years from now there will not be any changes in Haiti other than the same TUNE "We can't do this because We being discriminated for hundred of years.

Rubirosa, Every time you fill a job application at the US, there's a questionary in which they ask you to describe your race, beside your gender. (Which I found very rude and weird)

A) Caucasian B) African-American or Black C) Oriental D) Hispanic E) American Indian F) Other, Explain_______

How would you classify yourself, can you answer ?

I never met any local White person at the Hispaniola, except foreigners and myself, and neither Hispanics (Central-South Americans), many Dominicans saddly forget conveniently their Race.

This shouldn't be about Whites or Blacks, diceases don't know races.

And this is what this subject is about, "Avian Flu", a dicease not the human race.

To Perception: The main reason why I always make the race connection is not because I want to degrade Haitians but because at the end You and your people always connect the DOTS to the race issue to find an scapegoat.

Now I see your ignorance in terms of knowing race composition in Dominican Republic (NOT HISPANIOLA) never being in Haiti and don't care about it neither.

Let me teach you for example something eventhough most of the population is mulato, mestizo, black or whatever you want to call it, there is actually a minor/white population in DR.

Names like Brugal, Bermudez, Cabral, Rancier, Jimenes, Barcelo, Olivares and on and on, are
located in the Cibao Region of Dominican Republic and You know What (They are 100% white and SPANISH descendants) families that are traditional in this place of the DR for being there for at least 200 years.

(Cont) I'm sorry that you only interact with people like you and your knowledge is so limited in terms of history.

There is a Town (where my father is from) and yes indeed same thing majority of the people are descendants of WHITE people (from SPAIN) YESSS.

I don't want to reinforce so much about races and color of the skin but you ask me a question and I am answering it.

There is an Aristocratic class in Dominican Republic and whether a minority or not they are SPANIARDS descendants.

Now let me ask you something, Do you discriminate light skin people in HAITI??? everybody knows the anwer, i read books about it, and know people that already gave the side of their story so I don't need your answer. OK

There is also a big Dominican/Lebanese descendants in the Cibao region and other places of the island and which I do have lots of friends.

There is also a big minority Japanese descendants in Dominican Republic specially in Jarabacoa, Constanza and Dajabon

(Cont) by the way part of the Former president Hipolito Mejia bodyguards were JAPANESE descendants, I personally met 4 out of 10 going to Japan and they were 100% dominican / japanese descendants.

Mr. Rubirosa, you got this one wrong, this families Brugal, Bermudez, Cabral, Rancier, Jimenes, Barcelo, Olivares had little to do with the Spanish race, as a fact they are mix breed roaming Hispaniola since your foundation (Meztiso). You could make a case if you had mentioned, Corripio, Armentero, and few others. that I personnaly share some friendship, and only them can be considered "Hispanic", not "whites".


Merriam Webster definition of a Hispanic: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain.

Everyone else In Hispaniola its considered to belong to the "Black" race. Which I'm very proud of them!

"Avian Flu", don't have a "Race Department"

If you're looking for that, mr. Perception, you only have to go to Las Terrenas (where there's a french-descended community) or Sosúa, where the jewish-dominican community is living, and yes, they're being considered like whites on the US right now (and being treated with all the same privileges accorded to someone of that "condition"), or better yet, go to the exclusive sectors of the capital city (Anacaona, Bella Vista, Cacicazgos, etc.), the Carol Morgan school, St George or ABC schools, and if you don't find anything, pal, you'll need to have your eyesight checked. I didn't want to enter into your nonsensical race firefight, because I absolutely hate and despise it, but your plain ignorance of the country (DR) was simply grating on my nerves and didn't leave me a choice in the matter. And there's nothing that I absolutely hate and despise the most on this life than when someone is being willfully ignorant of a subject while being proud about it at the same time. (cont...)

(cont...) Even though mr. Rubirosa's rants are no better or different than yours, his rants have the rare quality that, nothwithstanding the fatal flaw that plague them (the utter hate and scorn that he holds against the haitian nation, hate and scorn that I personally detest and deplore), they are a little bit entertaining, if only for comic relief's sake, that is. Yes, the white people have been the scourge of the island's history, I have to agree with you on that, but not all of them are monsters, you know. As in every other ethnic group, there are good apples and bad ones, you only need to see people for what they're at the bottom of their souls and not take them at face value (this also may be applied to your more than evident bias against dominican people because of the jerk that took you for a fool. Man, could you please forgive for once in your life?)

Can't you let go of your animosity against that people for once, mr. Rubirosa?

Mr. Lautaro wrote: whites on the US right now (and being treated with all the same privileges accorded to someone of that "condition"), Wrong, we don't treat people differently because the color of their skin. (Watch Democrats elections primary's)

So your assumption is that living in high scale neighborhoud or attending to an Ivy league school will make you look whiter. LOL

Status don't entitled anyone to become "Caucasian", only "Phisionomy". Your difinitly very wrong in this topic, I do know very well DR society & culture. I'm not a fascist, but you should read a little of Engels definitions of a race. I might be considered something else accordingly.
Dominican's are still suffering from "Trujillo Flu", wanning to bleach the population & hate towards west habitants.

I do hope Hispaniola citizens as wells as the poultry, get rid of the "FLU".

Mr. Perception, please read: How Jews Became White Folks and What That Says About Race in America (Paperback), by Karen Brodkin. Then we'll talk. Are you satisfied now?

What I tried to say (and your mind wasn't capable of catching) is that the jews are "white" in the US because they have been accepted as such by the other european groups conforming that ethnicity over there. If you don't believe me, then please feel free to insult a jew the same way you'll insult a dominican at your own risk.

I do have some input in Mrs. Brodkin book, like her, both of you base your arguments on "Economics" and once again, "You can't buy your way to Heaven". Are we defining "Status" or "Race"?.

Not economics or status, but because the other groups have accepted them into their fore, be it for sharing some core values with them, economics or a combination of both, or simply, a perfect adaptation of the jews to the american system. The fact that counts is that the jews are currently on top sharing the throne that white supremacy affords them along with the other groups (Irish, Italians, Greeks, etc.). Again, if you don't believe me, then feel free to insult any of them as you would another minority group at your own risk. I assure you that they'll vengeance would be so swift that you'll not know what hit you until it's too late.

A. Meztiso, I believed, is mixed or mixed up with whites and Indians or natives Americans (who are more fashionable called "indigenous" today).

B. Mulatto are, I believe, of three main types -- (1) those that mix-up white and black; (2) those that mix-up indigenous and black and (3) those who mix-up everything black, white and indigenous.

C. Black or African is a impure myth.

D. White or Caucasoid is another impure myth.

E. Indigenous -- those who live in the rain forest may be real -- Most of the Caribbean ingenous have been extermination by vicious Caucasoids.

F. There's undetermined number of caucasianated people in the Caribbean region who transform themselve from Meztiso to white or from black to white or from mulatto to white or from indigenous to white. When we consider the process as a two-way street -- from color to white and white to color -- we are dealing racial mobility. But when talking about from color to white, we have the caucasianation.

Your talking about race integration, and it did happen in the US!!!!!, so why this can't happen at the Hispaniola.

Blacks often judge all mulattoes to be black because in a single family there are often brothers and sisters of the same parents, yet the siblings are radically different in apparent racial identity.

As a rule, Caucasoid or, at least, white-oriented racists do not distinguish between US blacks and near black mulattoes and DR blacks and near black mulattoes and Haitian blacks and near black mulattoes.

The filthy racist scum and slime in the USA and DR treat all of the "blacks" with same degree of contempt.

Caucasianation is also a kind of racism in reverse.

Mr. Lautaro, I believe you are incorrect with this issue. The "acceptance / non-acceptance" issue is definately one of economics. As an example, consider professional athletes and their place in society, regardless of their color. Also consider the studies that have shown a person's clothing and demeanor have a much greater weight when measuring the preceptions of others (US, 2002,2004, 2006, etc.). That does not mean the color of one's skin does not make any difference, it just indicates that in the US socio-economic status is a more significant factor than the color of one's skin. Furthermore, there are studies that indicate when considering multiple factors (dress, speech patterns, demeanor, peer group, education, race, religionetc) race is down on the list. The thing to keep in mind is there are many considerations, and different people put different empasis on each of those considerations. It is not as simple as black and white.

I do agree with Mr. Belial, there is a Caucasianation culture going on at DR from "Meztizos".

If I am wrong, can somebody explain to me why many Dominicans flight to the US to purchase "Whites Fashions", like Abercrobie & Fitch. Its this because "status" or just "Caucasianation" or both.

I looks like its marketed for "Caucasians", see it yourself:

http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/lifestyles/html/homepage.html

I accept your correction mr. davidjule, and on the study of the specific group mentioned above (the jews), money may have had a primary role on this acceptance. As for the matter of Hispaniola, mr. Perception, this goes beyond the race thing, it's more about cultural integration, something which is far more difficult to achieve, because we're talking about two nations fiercely loyal to their respective cultures, and which are not willing to renounce to their roots not even for all the gold of this world. Although I'm not denying that race is an issue here, it's not an almighty oppresive factor as it continues to be still in the US (the gates of interrace marriage where closed with fire and sword over there, only being lifted with struggle, see the case Loving vs. State of Virginia for more info), and I think that the high numbers of mixed/mulatto people on this country should be a testament to this fact (not even Brazil have that high a proportion of mixed people in its population).

"can somebody explain to me why many Dominicans flight to the US to purchase "Whites Fashions"like Abercrobie & Fitch." Perception asks.

0000

Caucasianation is fashionable but it's a different kind of fashion. Fashions decorate the body while causianation alter the body that fashions decorate.

Ordinarily, Abercrobie & Fitch, Macy's, or even Old Navy doesn't sell straight narrow noses, thin lips, bleaches and recolors skin or even implant yellow Caucasoid hair into the scalp. The services connected with caucasianation are not usually performed in stores like the one you named, but in hospitals or clinics by specialists in comestic medicine.

Your apparent concept that caucasionation consists of putting on a dress of a certain cut or color or a suit of a certain cut or color is slightly bizarre.

Never Mind !!!!!!

DR should keep holding the "lid on the pot".

No solution on site, "It always get worst, before it gets any better"

I don't really think so, mr. Perception, the last poll held by Gallup told that a 90% of the haitians that were used as the pool for the poll, when asked where their allegiance belonged, told the interviewers that they considered themselves haitians and nothing else. Although I think that this would have to necessarily change in the case of their children, this would depend on the level of success that these children had over here, which is a point of bitter contention, because for the criminal plutocrats over here to maintain their levels of profit, these children would have to remain illegal, that way, these criminals would have an inmense pool of cheap labour to exploit in the future. Until the country can shake the yokes imposed by these unsavory types, there would be no hope for the common worker, be it dominican or haitian, to improve the living conditions of their lot.

There is a hidden agenda from Mr Preval against DR, this week there is a theory that his brother and somebody else are making business with the eggs and chicken business.

Question is in the air for any civilized thinking mind???

It can be a possibility, mr. Rubirosa, but please let's not make another storm on a glass of water, I think that on this subject the DR and Haiti have had enough bickering to last us a dozen lifetimes.

DR "whites" are often quadroons, a person who is either one-fourth "black" or, better still, one-fourth "indigenous" and three-fourths "white."

[In the discredited study of eugenics, this 1/4 non-Caucasoid ancestry is sometimes split evenly between black and indigenous. But this division of the non-Caucasoid 1/4 fosters conceptual messiness. We're better off if we leave the non-Caucasoid 1/4 either black or indigenous. ]

Some quadroons ... sometimes need a little caucasianation here and there to erase the hints of non-Caucasoid origin in their features ... become ferocious race chauvinists, advocating an intense exclusivistic ideology against their own citizens and immigrants and tourists.

The cause of the madness of race chauvinist quadroons is inferiority feelings of constant pain and anguish, attributed to unwelome 1/4 blackness or 1/4 indigenous ancestry.

Race chauvinism isn't necessarily national chauvinism or sex chauvinism.

Quadroons often have all forms.

Well said! Mr. Lautato, I admire ur level of patience and understanding, in the face of such obtuseness and contemptuous behavior :u are a true archetype for the courteous and well mannered . Just for the sake of argument this strain of avian flu has never been harmful( and has never crossed over) to humans and the US has not issued a restriction ( this strand is already in the US). If you guys knew the acceptable levels of fecal matter which were allowed in hamburger(McDonalds, Burger king, Wendy’s) due to the gruesome conditions at meat processing plans, U guys would be up and arms( not to mention the acceptable levels of mercury in Fish or steroids in cattle).

Once the can of worms open up We will see the reaction of lots of people in this forum (GENIUSES)

Once again PATIENCE is better sometimes than ANGER and I will sit tight and wait for the news once is exploted.

Rene Preval was said this week has a family member that is dealing with a company from Florida and They found and excuse to their own people so They could do their business as usual.

Everybody knows what products are mentionet, But if some people don't care about researching for the truth is fine with me, I don't have or need to care about somebody else's problems

"If you guys knew the acceptable levels of fecal matter which were allowed in hamburger(McDonalds, Burger king, Wendy’s) due to the discussing conditions at meat processing plans, U guys would be up and arms( not to mention the acceptable levels of mercury in Fish or steroids in cattle)."

0000

Although the "acceptable levels" are unsafe, do you believe that US capitalists, in the various industries you mentioned, routinely exceed "acceptable levels" dispite the provisions of US law?

The US people are 1/3 reactionaries who have completely lost the capacity to be "up and arms" or feel righteous indignation; 1/3 independents who have a limited capacity to be "up and arms;" and, finally, 1/3 liberals who are very much "up and arms" or indignant in a righteous way.

But the liberals are not enough to bring about change. They need more support from the independents.

The reactionaries or conservatives are, of course, just trash.

I also applaud Mr, Lautara, but I must point out to FranktheTank that what might be acceptable to one is not necessarily acceptable to another. It still boils down to this: Haiti has the absolute right to restrict any import it deems to be unsafe, no matter what the ulterior motive or hidden agenda. This is simply a question of national self-determination.

Thank you for your kind compliments, Frank and davidjule. The only thing that I deplore from that measure, mr. davidjule, is that the haitian gov. should have taken the steps to ensure that there would not be cases of scarcity of some foodstuffs among the population once the ban was in place. Apparently, this hasn't been the case, and now the prices of some of the main foodstuffs over there are simply skyrocketing. In the end, the main victim of this bickering is the haitian population, which has been left without a secure, constant, and most of all, cheap source of provisions, so to speak. This would only endanger the fragile and precarious social stability that have been existing over there after Preval won the 2006 elections.

Almost any action taken against imports will have a short term economic impact. That was true in the US when Canadian beef was restricted. The price of beef sky-rocketed. I would suggest that in an emergency one must make difficult decisions. Sometimes those decisions can not wait until everything is in place. At times things develop too rapidly. I am not suggesting this was the best decision, or the only alternative, again, I am simply saying it is their's, and their's alone, to make.

I'm curious about that one, because it has been mentioned more than a couple of times already on this forum. Care to enlighten me on the proceedings of that little crisis, mr. david?

"Mad Cow Disease" was found within a herd of cattle in Canada several years ago. The US placed a ban on all Canandian beef shortly thereafter. Many Canadian cattle ranchers accused the US of overreacting, and there was some speculation that the US was acting simply to benefit the US beef industry. Those accusations may or may not have been true, but the fact remains that the US had a right to restrict beef it thought might contain "Mad Cow Disease." By the way, that situation was the cause of much bitterness and bad feelings for years.

Mr. Davidjule, I agree with you a 100%, in the fact that Haiti ( there was no serious heath concerns, as Haiti was the only nation to impose a ban) has every right to control what enters(as I have eluded to on previous conversations)its borders, but as u may know, price levels tend to be difficult(they’re “sticky” they easily go up, but don’t easily come down) ; the DR chicken producers may loose out on a few million(RD), but stability, within Haiti’s food foodstuffs is another matter(as substitute goods become more popular and expensive; to offset the scarcity of the primary good, in this case chicken).

(As the ban has been lifted).DR producers can now control the supply(or price, by withholding goods(chicken and eggs) they can over inflate the price, so they can easy recoup the diminishing returns they had incurred) and that’s not going to benefit anybody certainly not poor Dominicans and Haitians. God help Haiti, if DR producers choose to export their product to Venezuela because the price would never come down.

The DR, producers may come out even, but How many people have ( and will) gone hungry because of this Episode.

That is a good question, and I do not know the answer. You are also correct about price being "sticky." But there isn't much we can do about that, one way or the other. There will be many things affecting prices in the years to come. Most important is the efficiency of poultry production, while keeping in mind the customer preferance for healthy and free-ranging chickens. This is an area that both the DR and Haiti can capitalize on. By developing more modern raising methods both countries can begin to compete with the US chiken farmers, who have much higher costs. If the trade agreement is worth anything, this is an area worth developing.

greenwave, I support your agenda in controlling illegal Haitian migration to the DR because we Americans have our own agenda in sending back all of the poor, sick, uneducated, violent Dominicans back to DR. That class of Dominicans do not help the USA in anyway.

Why are you repeating yourself, mr. John? Do you have fun goading these hot heads?

John, "When you go black, no way going back". Instead of shipping bad apples to DR as well as bad chickens to PP, dig a huge hole in Manhattan and buried them there.

Sometimes euthanasia its the solution, bad ones contaminate the good ones.

There's many other importants news in Dominican Today, that impact in many different ways DR living. Like, a US coast guard official visiting the Island, Leonel calling for help, US consulate reviewing baseball players visa and many others topics./

Would everyone comment in those forums, the island problems are greater than infected Chicken & eggs.,

Seriously.

For everybody : this week there is a version that one family member (related to the haitian president) has a business with somebody in Florida and this is the main reason why the hidden agenda with Dominican Republic.

There is another source that I personally researched and won't give my story so people don't sell us out.

That's why is good to do research and find out the truth before giving bad credibility to anybody so once the bomb (story ) explode in Haiti let's see what their inhabitants think about it.

" Like, a US coast guard official visiting the Island ..."

000000

Decided to take a break from drowning undocumented DR workers in Mona Passage ... trying to reach PR.

They're treating DRs like Haitians.

To Belial: good comments thanks for keeping high morale with the dominicans..........

Rubirosa",~~~ shut up~~~~because you know thats how you got here!!!!!!

Belial commenst are both ways, read it again. "They're treating DRs like Haitians."

I'm already seeing Dominicans & Haitians everywhere, can we move on with another topic, I will like to extend my knowledge on other issues about "Hispaniola"!!!!

Pls.

To Perception: same respects for your brother and thanks for your diplomacy...........

Education, culture and civilization is learned, teached and loved but never acquired, pushed, or being forced against anybody's will.

Once again thanks for being what you are Mr perception (educated, pro- , and with a good and independent agenda against a country that has a pride and honor)

Keep the good work Mr perception and have a nice day and good night

Will give you credit for acknowledging the real deal and name in DR "QUISQUEYA" finally We are reaching a middle point of respect and adjustment

(Cont) wait for the big news sooner or later Mr Perception it could be reaching the media or press hopefully this month and seen by the planet why religion, good values and decency taught to Dominicans will show up in a God's miracle.

Well don't know what religion you follow but I'm 100% borned and raised CATHOLIC (Went to high school in DR and finish in College too 100% CATHOLIC).

Good values are always enforced in CATHOLIC institutions and always look for the TRUTH OK

JRRubirosa, your ideology and demeanor fit the description of a terrorist. Please turn yourself to the Authorities before you blow up. The USA does not need people like you. God Bless America.

That Catholic upbringing certainly explains a lot. Even though I don't hold anything against that creed, a well informed citizen can't fail to see that a lot of issues plaguing the DR (such as violence against women, monoparental homes, inability to reach a consensus on the matter of terapheutical abortion, lack of sexual education on the schools and lack of birth control programs on the state and the population, discrimination against minorities among others) have their source on the enormous social and political power that the Catholic Church have over the country and their lack of tolerance on every sign of opposition on their way. We're in no better shape than the fundamentalist states of the Middle East on many accounts of the human rights department because of this.

To Johhusa and Lautara: your both welcome and you very smart to (You seem to know a lot ) and both of you are real geniuses by the way.

I noticed that you are PHD on your respective opinions. keep the good work and hopefully unbiased opinion about Dominican Republic.

May god bless your both and "Love and Peace"

Words and opinions are taken from people to see what they are inside their mental and
personal opinions, so once again you both are very positve people.

Keep fighting for these people rights I will take care of fighting for mine......

The point that I tried to make about being catholic is to show that I believe in Justice before anything else not lies made by some people to take advantage of any given or specific
status in this case the unjustified attacks against my country.

(Cont) i was taught to fight for justice and truth and this is the reason why i implied my religion not to show up.

Our neighbors are being taught since children different values and principles and there is a big difference in our upbringing and theirs.

But I guess We all have a right of opinion whether is right or wrong, Who determine who is at fault??? Guess time and history.

Let's wait and see then who was lying to the world: haitian goverment doing illegal business and lying to their own people or dominican goverment doing everything possible to show good faith and responsability.

Mr. JR, this how you make your case due to lack of a good reasoning because your brain box breakers are "Burn", like using report as spam/innpropiate.

It doesn't matter how many times you post your comments, you have not make your case !!!!

Note: If some "Mormons" show to your door. Don't panic. !!!!

Very Truly Yours

Perception

To my dear friend Perception : I do have good mormon friends and other religions and will get along and respect them same way that they respect me.

My Brain box breakers are not burned yet, I do drink good quality coffee every morning and
take care of my body going to the gym 3 times a week and also taking good organic supplements.

Don't panic yet I'm still kicking and alive but thanks for your concerns about me.

Regardins Spam/Inapporpiate(report) didn't get your point so please excuse my ignorance.

Truly yours


JR Rubirosa (your best friend) in all these blogs

evil...lol

JRRubirosa, Please get it in your head that no one here is attacking your country. Everyone here has great respect for DR and the Dominican people. You are the one spreading hate. Your views are bias, terroristic, and racist. You are a delusional person in need of psychiatric evaluation. You are here in the USA trying to start a revolution. You are not even brave enough to move back to DR to employ your agenda. On another note, you could learn a lot from Lautaro, dreadlocks, and JabaoHaitian. They are the most positive people on this web site.

To Johnusa: I appreciate your good comments but I don't need to learn anything positive from the people you mentioned since they have their pro haitian agenda and mine is pro dominican.

On the revolution side you went a little too far but yes indeed I do have something in plan (not so extreme) like you are thinking but I do have the guts, stamina and bravery in my blood to do what is necessary to start a positive movement in DR.

My views are biased, terroristic and racist since they are not pleasing your personal thinking and opinions same as your gang, "Justice and truth is in the eye of the beholder"

Last part it seems to be that on your side since you symphatize with them for whatever reason (Maybe you are haitian too) you don't like or agree wiht my ideas and agenda, and don't really care what you think about me same as your group.

If they really want to share positive insight and opinions I believe like mentioned many times already to create a creole website and then

(cont) all haitians and people like you should share and follow opinions and concerns.

So wait and see because sooner or later you will see my revolution in the media, (DON"T GET SHOCKED).

Thanks again for your constructive comments but I don't need them and I do have a path to follow which is "Justice and the Truth" not "unjustified attacks and lies" from your group of friends (the POSITIVE ONES)

Keep the good work and "Love and Peace"

JRRubirosa, you forever ranting this site (Dominican Today) is for Dominicans. If that was the case, it would not be on the internet. If that is on your agenda to privatize this site, do it. Let see if you got any juice. Until that happen we will continue to post on this site. GOD BLESS THE USA.

Love and Peace

to johnusa; thank you very kindly for your flattering assessment of my contribution. incidentally, you yourself fall into that ca tegory of even handed thinkers. have a nice one.

To get back to the bird flu.. So far, 1738 birds, mostly fighting cocks, have been killed. The outbreak has gone from Higuey to Santiago to Pedernales. Haiti still holds its border embargo. Haiti used to import 52% of the DR's egg production, The DR government is buying chickens from producers. There is no public effort to quarentine the epidemic by calling off cock fighting for a month - which would be the requirement for an international certification. The egg producers have agreed to lower production. DR eggs and chickens will not be accepted by Venezuela until they are certified by the OIE. The virus is still in the low pathogen stage - so that it is only transferred bird to bird, not bird to human. But it could mutate at any time. Just in case there was anyone who wanted the facts - which are no longer being reported in the local press.

thnx mountainannie.

Mountainannie, that was a brilliant summation of the bird flu situation in the Dominican Republic.

And while the DR and Haiti have a relatively complete embargo on one another down here - no Rum Barbancourt on this side, no Haitian vegetables except in the market towns where they are rolled across the rivers in defiance of the law, no transshipping through Domincan ports, no access to the USDA hot water pre approval organic mango certification plant in Haiti, no transfers from banks from here to there. DR truckers backed up at the border at Jimini while drivers are forced to go into PAP and pay the taxes in cash.............. the good ole USA fills the supermarket shelves with more and more imports. So you guys just keep right on fighting with each other because my country can sure use the money!! Of course, people are actually starving in Haiti-- and soon will be here -but.... do we CARE?

actually, mountainannie, you have done all of us a great service with these highly scholarly and lucid postings. we have one contiguous land mass, yet we have all these trade restrictions and impediments. yet we can go into supermercado nacional and buy just about anything made in europe. as Mr Lautaro and Baldoria are always at pains to remind us, this malaise between the DR and Haiti benefits the entrepreneur classes, who assiduously strive to maintain the status quo for their benefit!

Mountainannie, a question if you must: Are you Elizabeth Roebling, by chance? Because you have just paraphrased her POV word by word, including her peculiar style of spelling Jimaní (Not that I'm holding anything against that POV, mind you).

mountainannie, some people do care: just not the ones that ought to: the ones that have the power to set things right!

you got me, Lautaro...

Then it must have been excruciatingly difficult for you to endure the racist nonsense that some people are capable of posting over these forums. Your patience is surely something to admire.

I was raised in the States and came up through the Civil Rights movement so there is little racist stuff that I have not heard. It is a bit strange to hear it from people