These migrants from Haiti wait on line to come across. Photo sjrdom.org
Santiago.-The ban on imports of chickens, eggs and processed meats from Dominican Republic is causing a famine among residents in the of the northeast Haiti town Ouanaminthe and other communities located near the northern border zone, said the Jesuit priest Regino Martinez, who sees “a cat in the bag” in the handling of the crisis.
The newspaper El Nacional reports that residents of those communities have already begun to protest in the streets against the measures implemented by Haiti’s government two-weeks ago, whereas several organizations in Ouanaminthe also threatened to stage protests this week if the cross-border market at nearby Dajabon (northwest) continued shuttered tomorrow Friday.
The priest Regino Martinez, of the Jesuit Border Solidarity Movement, today said several nuns from Haiti have told him that the hunger already shows on the faces of many of the zone’s street vendors, resulting form the market’s close and the ban on poultry imports. “The desperation and the hunger they are undergoing are seen on the faces of those people, because those who work in the market make what they eat in the week."
He said the border zone’s recent problems have disoriented the citizens, who don’t know who to believe regarding the bird flu which is alleged to have been detected in Higüey, "and this has had repercussions in Haiti.
The prelate said if the Dominican Government continues to keep silent and not speak clearly about on the situation of the disease, it’s because "there is something hidden. There’s a cat in the bag."
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
hmmm....I hear nothing about this on "Sakapfet", or "nouvelleHaiti"...They make it seem that Haitians dying from hunger is something new.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
The Jesuits seem to be of the attitude that the problem rests solely with the Dominicans, totally ignoring the fact that it is theHaitian Government's ban on the import of chickens and eggs into Haiti that has been the root cause of the boycot by local Dominican merchants in retaliation to that action.
Since there is not any real clear evidence of the spread of this "Avian Flu Virus" into the "human arena" andsince the particular strain of the virus does not affect humans, all the bally-hoo seems to be politically motivated.
The complaints of the Jesuit Society aside, just what is the motivation of theHaitian Government in reality?
It seems to me that the actions of that government, for whatever purposes, is without any real basis and therefore such actions reflect the immaturity of the Haitian Officials in their attempt to gain international attention by "starving" their own people.
The Jesuits should look at the "Big Picturre" and stay out of the political arena.
TB
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
TeXASBILL: You have lots of wisdom in your opinions and sound like a scholar from a well known institution, whereever you got your knowledge, may God bless you and you got and deserve my respects, Sir Texasbill
From: United States
Texas Bill, i agree with your reporting that the virus has no effect on humans. however, it is highly contagious within the bird population. i suspect that the preoccupation is not over the deleterious effects on humans, but what can eventuate within the fledgling poultry indusrty of haiti.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
dreadlocks;
While I agree with your ssessment of the"possibility" that the virus 'could be" spread to the Haitian chicken population, I think that the threat has thus far been confined to the Higuey area. While the destruction of the suspected infected birds has been done, we need to await the completion of the "incubation period" of thevirusto determine if , in fact, theinfection is contained and/or no longer exists.
The overall animosity generated by this event has had a profound effect on the previous platform of relations between Haiti and the DR. it will take a considerable period of time for the furor thus far in evidence to abate.
While I can sympathize with the concern of the Haitian authorities, I nevertheless must reiterate that there is more to the issue than what has been reported in the Press.
there are too many different organizations sticking their collective fingers into the pie at this point and that is what I am primarily conderned about.
TB
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
First, there are the Dominican merchants along the border who are forcing the "cease and desist" order against cross-border trade, which is the life blood of the Haitians opposite them geographically. This is very simply a retallliatory measure by the merchants for the prohibition of their trade in chickens and eggs.
Second, there is the Jesuit Society sticking their nose into the situation and exacerbating the issue by their reference to the plight of the Haitians. This organization has caused enough trouble between Haiti and the DR over their support of theillegal immigration issue in the past, so we know for sure that they are simply trying to draw international attention to their own agenda, vis-a vis "The Haitian Problem in the Dominican Republic". Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they were the driving force behind the Haitian Government's attitudes and actions in this matter.
Finally, it is the prerogative of each government to take whatever action they deem appropriate.
TB
From: United States
We are easy to critize each other, but the problem would be solve if our neighbors(Haitians) just so go back to Haiti and see how much more comfortable they will live. No one request Haitians presence in DR, you are not forced at gun point to come and work the sugar filed, construction etc.
Why won't you and your fellow Haitian brothers get together and band to pick-up all the Haitians in DR and take them back to Haiti. I am sure that Haiti will be a better place, since I know for a fact the the DR economy will pickup. SInce we will not have to worry about your medical costs etc. You bash us DR's but the Haitians are invading us is not the other way around. We all know if it this was the case you would feel the way I feel. So get your people together educate them and make something positive of your country beside being known for VOODOO.
From: United Kingdom
TB, I agree with you 100%; couldn’t have said it better myself.
From: United States
to TB and the Tank: i am sure there is some political and nationalist agenda buried beneath all of this. and to Dominicano: maybe the americans are saying the same about you; why not just go back to the Dr?
From: United States
I don't think the U.S. are saying the same about Dominicans we are a productive group we came to the U.S. and work and started business. Ohh haven't you read the Latino Votes are high in demand for the up coming U.S.presidency. I guess we have added value to the U.S., I don't see anyone looking for Haitians votes not even haiti. How do you nominate a president? I think i remember something about that 2yrs ago. But, I don't follow Haiti's politics since they are always begging for something.
From: United Kingdom
Don’t worry Dreadlocks; if the Republicans get their way he’ll be on his way back(lol).
Mr. Dominica no1774, who is this “we” ur talking about(because I’m certainly not included).
From: Haiti
What part of the USA do you live in. When you US mentions "latinos" they are referring to all hispanics even Brazilians although they don't speak spanish. Thus, dominicans are a spec in the mix of things. In all of the hispanics dominicans are have the highest rate of drop out and delinquents. Do you know the stigma dominicans have in Spain and Italy, well the world? Please lets get in touch with reality. Haitians are during well in the USA and own businesses and have contributed to the USA just like many dominicans as well. We can go on and on about this but stick to reality. All of the stereotypes need to stop. I never met so many dominicans that hated haitians so much. I know dominicans personally and haven't heard such non sense. I guess this is due to class difference. Have you been to PR? Domincans have flooded the island. B4 you bad mouth people look clean your closet. I am all about curbing haitian migration to the DR and see if you'll go back to fill the void.
From: United Kingdom
This is going to go down hill, fast! I give five minutes until the "know it alls" and the commie show up. This web site is turning into the wild west, they’re needs to be some sort of control ,over these characters(or internet tough guys ). Mr. Dreadlocks, if I had a vote I would nominate you, TexasBill, and Lautaro to be moderators. Since I’ve never seen you guys loose ur cool, but since I don’t(have a vote) an e-mail would have to do for now.
From: Haiti
We need to learn to respect each other and stop this ridiculous I am better than you are. Both countries have an excess amount of people immigrating for a reason, if DR was so great why are so many of living in droves. I have never seen such rhetorics by a group of indivduals b4. Where you dominicans from? The ones I know are good people that respect haitians and know we have differences but see that interacting among each other in a positive manner is better off than. I am better than you. Ok you think dominicans are better than haitians. Now Puerto Ricans and the rest of latin america think they are better than dominicans. When is the cycle of ignorance going to end? I see this as a result of reading a book at an adult age where one still mentality isn't capable of dissecting the truth and stuck on the minor conflicts. I see this with my post where not of you mention the positive I write of the DR but once I put the mirror in your face to see reality. All hell breaks loose.
From: United States
thanks Frank, for your kind words.some of these new posters seem to be guys looking for a fight. i am bemused that people can make so many asinine statements and hold steadfastly to them as if they were the gospel. the minute they find that their nonsense is debunked, they go on a rampage of ad hominems and hubris, as if that will right the ship. the sad part is that the noise and detritus occasioned by these hooligans obscures the wealth of insight and info that people such as yourself, Baldoria, Dagtan and Mr lautaro have to offer. i guess learning is too strenuous for some; they would rather be breaking bottles over some stranger´s forehead!!
From: Haiti
FranktheTank, yes I agree with you and I have fallen to victim of this as well. This can be a positive venue to learn from each other but it is turning out to be the wild west as u mentioned. I am thinking of not posting because I dont see the point of people aren't willing to analyze the situation and agree or disagree in a respectful manner without calling out founding fathers and all sorts of rhetorics..Bloke, hope london is treating you well man. NYC ain't got nothing on them..too bad the weather sucks..mind your step:)
Written by: Lautaro, 8 Feb 2008 4:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I guess fundamentalism (be it on the form of nationalism, religious persecution, etc.) is called to be the disease that will mark the XXI'st century. This reminds me of the saying that goes by: "The more things change, the more they remain the same".
From: United Kingdom
Progress! Mr. Jabao that’s what I’m about . I don’t know!(haven‘t been here long, 2 months), Mr. Jabao, that’s an interesting topic (comparing London and NYC) they both certainly have they’re high lights I guess it depends on personal choice on which one you prefer(like NYC better). After I finish my studies at LSE, my job is talking about sending me to Honk Kong now that sounds interesting to me.
From: United Kingdom
Mr. Jabao,if they knew the amount of Dominicans and Haitians;doing the horizontal polka(sex)they would shut up. These are individuals,that don’t know how to debate a subject, on the merits of their argument.They resort to personal vituperation or better yet they’ll insult your family. Most of the time they’ll just compare apples and oranges(when your lucky). This what this web site has being reduced to;a place were the idiots of both sides of this issue can throw dirt on each other( I have gone down to their level on some occasions). While the people of the DR and Haiti continue to suffer. What keeps me coming back u may ask? People like Mr. Texasbill , Dreadlocks,Lautaro,Acosta and urself(even though we have bumped heads on a couple of occasions), while I sometimes don’t agree with their comments, they always maintain a level of class and decency while bring up some great points, that can sometimes make me rethink my positions.
From: United States
I have read all your comments, and I found that all Haitians & Dominicans forum posters living in the Island had many constructive & positive ideas of what can be improved on both nations relations and attitudes toward a common and better future for all. Then the others, from England, the United States, and other places are only contributing with negative, hate, frustrations, xenophobic, disgust, shamed feelings toward this Island immigration issues.
Its my imagination or I sense here that this immigrants living abroad might be in repressive despair because waning to belong to the countries their residing at ?? And they are been rejected in the same way.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Let us inject a bit of sanity into these "conversations", PLEASE!!!
We all understand if someone comes to the defense of their native state (country) when another issues forth with derrogatory remarks against that state. Such a defense is a natural recourse for an individual to exercise.
However, we merely exacerbate the "debate (??)" if we answer in kind to the invectives we read here, or elsewhere.
Instead we should answer with positive assertions couched in factual history to explain the social mores we are supporting.
To lay bare thenegative does nothing to support the positive with respect to the differences in mores of either society.
To keep alive the incipient conflicts through constant delienation of the causitive factors is an exercise in futility because neither will admit to being "wrong" in those conflicts.
What we all must do is to be positive in our attempts to explain our positions and to offer those solutions which will be effective.
TB
From: United States
"Pact of no agression"
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Not a"pact of no agression" Perception, but an approach of sane solutions discussed by equally sane people to resolve their differences. Only when these efforts arive at irrevocable differences do we resort to physical solutions. The adage of "Might makes Right" is not always the answer.
To bounce of on an emotional tirade has never solved any problem short of physical combat between the parties involved in the disputes confronting them. To succumb to such a method is to relegate right and wrong to strength alone, Iraq notwithstanding.
Perhaps if you had spent as many years in a military society as I did, you would begin to see that a physical solution is a case of last resort against an entire population which are just as human in their seeking of a life of peace and tranquility as are you.This is not to say that you are either right or wrong in your thinking, but that the paths offered are twofold.
TB
From: United States
TB quoted: Perhaps if you had spent as many years in a military society as I did, you would begin to see that a physical solution is a case of last resort against an entire population
Iraq notwithstanding
Not my own individual senses, Sir. Because I had not been giving the choice as an "individual" to accept "That life is war, and war its life" as one of the many pestilence of human existance.
From: United States, Killeen, TX - Home of the 1st Cavalry
Perception;
Nor do i accept the choice as being "That life is war and war is Life", etc.
In fact, my post indicated just theopposite.
perhaps you should take an Advanced course in understandingthe nuances of the English Language, so that you may better interpret the thoughts conveyed by the written word in that language.
You cerainly need to get your mind out of its "Hate" gear.
TB
From: United States
is a case of last resort (also) Only when these efforts arive at irrevocable differences do we resort to physical solutions. You quted !!!!
Written by: JOHNUSA 
, 10 Feb 2008 4:18 AM
From: United States
We all come to this web site to express our views under the concept of being able to speak freely without censorship. At the same time we have to recognize there are restrictions on speech that are sometimes characterized as assaults on freedom of speech such as:
Defamation (slander and libel)
Hate speech that is defamatory or causes incitement to violence.
Fighting words doctrine : "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
Using abusive language to another.
Blasphemy.
From: United States
To Mr. TB (DR) and John (US), I will like to disregard some of the many comments I had made on the subjects at hands as the colors of the characters that I had addressed myself.
“Awaiting for those at hand, that without the use of “Words or Arms” protect my Homeland”.
Very Truly Yours,
A concened US Citizen.
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Since there is not any real clear evidence of the spread of this "Avian Flu Virus" into the "human arena" andsince the particular strain of the virus does not affect humans, all the bally-hoo seems to be politically motivated.
The complaints of the Jesuit Society aside, just what is the motivation of theHaitian Government in reality?
It seems to me that the actions of that government, for whatever purposes, is without any real basis and therefore such actions reflect the immaturity of the Haitian Officials in their attempt to gain international attention by "starving" their own people.
The Jesuits should look at the "Big Picturre" and stay out of the political arena.
TB
While I agree with your ssessment of the"possibility" that the virus 'could be" spread to the Haitian chicken population, I think that the threat has thus far been confined to the Higuey area. While the destruction of the suspected infected birds has been done, we need to await the completion of the "incubation period" of thevirusto determine if , in fact, theinfection is contained and/or no longer exists.
The overall animosity generated by this event has had a profound effect on the previous platform of relations between Haiti and the DR. it will take a considerable period of time for the furor thus far in evidence to abate.
While I can sympathize with the concern of the Haitian authorities, I nevertheless must reiterate that there is more to the issue than what has been reported in the Press.
there are too many different organizations sticking their collective fingers into the pie at this point and that is what I am primarily conderned about.
TB
Second, there is the Jesuit Society sticking their nose into the situation and exacerbating the issue by their reference to the plight of the Haitians. This organization has caused enough trouble between Haiti and the DR over their support of theillegal immigration issue in the past, so we know for sure that they are simply trying to draw international attention to their own agenda, vis-a vis "The Haitian Problem in the Dominican Republic". Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they were the driving force behind the Haitian Government's attitudes and actions in this matter.
Finally, it is the prerogative of each government to take whatever action they deem appropriate.
TB
Why won't you and your fellow Haitian brothers get together and band to pick-up all the Haitians in DR and take them back to Haiti. I am sure that Haiti will be a better place, since I know for a fact the the DR economy will pickup. SInce we will not have to worry about your medical costs etc. You bash us DR's but the Haitians are invading us is not the other way around. We all know if it this was the case you would feel the way I feel. So get your people together educate them and make something positive of your country beside being known for VOODOO.
Mr. Dominica no1774, who is this “we” ur talking about(because I’m certainly not included).
I have read all your comments, and I found that all Haitians & Dominicans forum posters living in the Island had many constructive & positive ideas of what can be improved on both nations relations and attitudes toward a common and better future for all. Then the others, from England, the United States, and other places are only contributing with negative, hate, frustrations, xenophobic, disgust, shamed feelings toward this Island immigration issues.
Its my imagination or I sense here that this immigrants living abroad might be in repressive despair because waning to belong to the countries their residing at ?? And they are been rejected in the same way.
We all understand if someone comes to the defense of their native state (country) when another issues forth with derrogatory remarks against that state. Such a defense is a natural recourse for an individual to exercise.
However, we merely exacerbate the "debate (??)" if we answer in kind to the invectives we read here, or elsewhere.
Instead we should answer with positive assertions couched in factual history to explain the social mores we are supporting.
To lay bare thenegative does nothing to support the positive with respect to the differences in mores of either society.
To keep alive the incipient conflicts through constant delienation of the causitive factors is an exercise in futility because neither will admit to being "wrong" in those conflicts.
What we all must do is to be positive in our attempts to explain our positions and to offer those solutions which will be effective.
TB
To bounce of on an emotional tirade has never solved any problem short of physical combat between the parties involved in the disputes confronting them. To succumb to such a method is to relegate right and wrong to strength alone, Iraq notwithstanding.
Perhaps if you had spent as many years in a military society as I did, you would begin to see that a physical solution is a case of last resort against an entire population which are just as human in their seeking of a life of peace and tranquility as are you.This is not to say that you are either right or wrong in your thinking, but that the paths offered are twofold.
TB
Iraq notwithstanding
Not my own individual senses, Sir. Because I had not been giving the choice as an "individual" to accept "That life is war, and war its life" as one of the many pestilence of human existance.
Nor do i accept the choice as being "That life is war and war is Life", etc.
In fact, my post indicated just theopposite.
perhaps you should take an Advanced course in understandingthe nuances of the English Language, so that you may better interpret the thoughts conveyed by the written word in that language.
You cerainly need to get your mind out of its "Hate" gear.
TB
Defamation (slander and libel)
Hate speech that is defamatory or causes incitement to violence.
Fighting words doctrine : "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
Using abusive language to another.
Blasphemy.
“Awaiting for those at hand, that without the use of “Words or Arms” protect my Homeland”.
Very Truly Yours,
A concened US Citizen.