Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2008 7:31 AM
From: United States
No education leads to exploitation. But we have a METRO! Pa' lante Presidente!
Written by: buenoha, 24 Apr 2008 8:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I must say that this is very very embarrasing information, especially considering we are such a small island with only 9 million people. How can it be that soooooo many of our women (proportionally) go abroad to sell their bodies???
A country like Brazil has over 300 million people, and Philipines with over 100 million people. Thailand has like over 40 million people, and we just have 9 million and that small amount of people brings about the fourth biggest group of international prostitutes??? INCREDIBLE!!!
Written by: muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 9:49 AM
From: United States, New York City
This is not new, nor recent. More than half the population of the island of Curaçao is of Dominican descent. Why? Because of all the Dominican prostitutes that used to go there in decades past. Someone please tell us something new.
And personally, I take the same view on prostitution that rom1804 does. Although I would strongly add...it should be legalized, taxed, and supervised and the women should be routinely tested for STDs. It's a shame that they have to go overseas when they could be providing that service in the D.R. and earning tax dollars for the economy.
But then again, we'd have yet another draw for illegal immigration from Haiti.
Written by: JCjua, 24 Apr 2008 11:09 AM
From: United States, New York
This is degrading to the human race and more importantly to women.
I hope when you are having such kind of therapy, thoughts of your own mother come to you.
Dominicans are ingenious and can survive anywhere in the world, yet prostitution is inhuman. If you get promises in exchange for prostitution please understand that it’s just to attract you and enslave you.
"La moral es la ciencia por excelencia; es el arte de vivir bien y ser dichoso. " Pascal Blaise
"No hagas de tu cuerpo la tumba de tu alma." Pitágoras
From: United States
I don't have a morality issue with prostitution, however it does say something terrible when whores are a major export of a nation...and mostly about the quality of the men in the nation, at that.
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 11:40 AM
From: United States
muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 9:49 AM
From: United States, New York City
My God!!! and you live in NYC. Dude one thing is to be open minded and another is to be cabaretero!
In the past, dominicans would take their sons to brothels to lose their virginity and learn to be a man?
Well, most of these men ended up married with a prostitute (what is called honoring a prostitute) etc.
The bottom line. Mr.Zimbabwe and yourself dont begin to know what the word "MAN" means.
and its not your sex that defines it, but your behavior.
continues
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 11:48 AM
From: United States
It not a surprise that these ladies went knowing what they will do.
The problem: in DR people applaud corruption and embrasse criminal behavior as long as money is involved. These women will come back and now can have the house, car and bragging rights, which they could have never done before. No one will care that the money came from prostitution.
The same mentality that they have when it comes to drug dealers.
The easy money its applauded by those who refuse to do work.
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 11:50 AM
From: United States
I cannot and will not allow others to claim that our biggest export is prostitution.
Dominican Republic exports many natural products that american and europe purchase to name one "organic cacao"
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 11:54 AM
From: United States
A man is not one who takes advantage of a woman's need and lack of education to exploit or use her as a boy toy(a toy you use and dispose when you are done).
A man is not one who will put his family/loved ones in danger (and you are by behavior).
a man is not one who feels that he is the man because he has made another woman his.
#Conquest does not equal manhood.
Written by: Jander, 24 Apr 2008 11:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Duped in to going, thats bunch of BS. They go out there on own free will and they find out they have to pay off their debt and have to "do" 9 men a day. They cry cause here they can 'do' 1 a week or month and survive. They are looking for a meal ticket and find out the hard way they have to work for the money.
The majority of the female gender here want 2 maids a fancy car and go to the salon 3 times a week.
Thats the way it is, thats why they don't care what the guys look like.
But God Bless them! and he must have put them here for a reason.
Written by: Belial, 24 Apr 2008 11:56 AM
From: United States, Texas
That's just for the women and girls. The numbers for the men and boys are just as large or larger.
One may think that human smuggling, force labor [slavery], and sexual exploitation is an industry ... on the Dominican side ... controlled by the lumben, the low class criminals. False. The lumpen are only hired help and security guards. This business of the slave trade is tightly controlled by the "human rights-loving" Dominican bourgeoisie, including some of the richest, oldest, and most pretigious families on the island.
Even the high Catholic experts on divine beings in the Dominican Republic are involved in the dirty business. Devout Nazarenes, males and females, are in great demand as prostitutes because they don't look so jaded and wasted.
Exploiting and EXPORTING prostitutes, males and females, ALL OVER THE WORLD expresses the ethics and economics of the free market under laissez faire.
The bourgeoisie is scum and anybody who fawns before the capitalist class is worth
Written by: Belial, 24 Apr 2008 11:58 AM
From: United States, Texas
As for voluntary entrance of the whores into the slave trade, kids are high demand and they don't have the capacity to consent, except in the eyes of greedy bourgeois slime.
Written by: Belial, 24 Apr 2008 12:13 PM
From: United States, Texas
The Dominican Republic is a world transshipment center of whores and slaves. Whores and slaves from all over the Latin America and Caibbean are processed in Dominican Republic for export as far as Australia, Europe, USA, Asia, etc.
After the whores, both males and females, are exhausted or no longer suitable for sex exploitation, they are sold as farm laborers, domestics, sweat shop toilers, or often put to sleep.
Most people who defend human smuggling and the slave trade do so because they know that their rotten bourgeois leaders are behind the trade and profit most from it. There is no circumstances in which these servile defenders will ever turn against their bourgeois leaders, their beloved bosses in morality and business.
From: United States
NYCDR, you assert that you will not allow people to say that prostitution is one of the major exports of the DR. i guess you intend to alter the statistics unilaterally.
Written by: Raulin, 24 Apr 2008 12:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Hartford, CT
Don't you think using the term "whores" to describe these women is disrespectful and dehumanizing?I don't think its needed to comment intelligently, Unless that wasn't your intent.
This issue of prostitution, in my opinion, reflects the sad state of affairs that our country is currently in and that alot of other "Third World" or "Developing" countries are facing. Not only are we losing our people due to Immigration, but we are also "whoring" ourselves off as a country. Tourism is probably the biggest player in that sector. DR has a huge sex tourism industry. Furthermore, regular dominican people are essentially selling themselves off so that they can get an opportunity to come to the Developed world. I know plenty of people who have married Europeans, Gringos, other Dominicans to be able to come here. Isn't that the same as prostitution.Also the Government needs to regulate this industry and actually do something about it, especially when it comes to young girls/children.
Written by: muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 12:27 PM
From: United States, New York City
Raulin I changed the wording. But I wasn't aiming for disrespect. In Nevada, the prostitutes union liberally uses that word for their organization. I was trying to be more politically correct by demystifying the word. The Nevada prostitutes defend the use of the word by noting that women are not the only ones that go into prostitution...men do too.
Written by: Raulin, 24 Apr 2008 12:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Hartford, CT
Interestingly enough, and sadly as well, this site has links to "Dominican Dating sites" Which are essentially sites targetting europeans and gringos to go get a dominican woman. Is that not prostitution?
I think we have to ask what kind of role we play in supporting this?
From: United States
Raulin, i have commented several times on the value, or lack thereof, which Dominican society places on women. that is partly the reason why femicide statistics are among the highest in the world here. sadly, the average Dominican, in my view, has very scant respect for womanhood. i have been to several nightclubs in new york and witnessed Puerto Rican women slapping the faces of Dominican men on dancefloors. the men believe that they can gratuitously grab the posteriors of all women they encounter , since they get away with that at home.they find out rapidly, to their embarrassment and dismay, that some women will not put up with that. secondly, i have seen men walking with members of the opposite sex, while dominican bystanders make lewd comments, without consideration for the situation. true it is that people will resort to expedients to get visas and feed their families, but poverty exists everywhere.you do not see tens of thousands of women from Trinidad, Barbados and Bermuda
Written by: Belial, 24 Apr 2008 12:34 PM
From: United States, Texas
It is unjust and slanderous to blame the Dominican Republic for this traffic in whores and slaves.
Only elements of the Dominican bourgeoisie and their foreign allies, especially elements of US bourgeoisie, should bear the blame, because they principally operate the business and profit from this horrifying trade which earns billions of dollars annually..
Most likely, over 95% of the Dominicans are appalled by human trafficking ... notwithstanding a discernable amount of sexist ideology, arrogance, and animus ... and would take or support steps to at least suppress most of it if they could find revolutionary leaders. But all that they can find is the bourgeois garbage, amoral reactionaries and timid liberals.
Why should the filthy elements of Dominican bourgeoisie be allowed to represent Dominican Republic when at least 95% of the Dominican people oppose their sinister business? So, it's unfair to blame the republic. Blame the wealthy and privileged scum that tarnish it.
From: United States
running to north america and europe to enter the sex trade. the root causes run very deep, and maybe Mr Lautaro, Baldoria and FranktheTank can enlighen us with their sociological prowess.
Written by: Raulin, 24 Apr 2008 12:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Hartford, CT
Nevada is a different and interesting example of regulated, legalized prostitution in a developed, super-rich country.
When you think about prositution in DR, especially, it is not regulated, the women doing it, may not have as many choices as women in the U.S. I guess that theoretically, I am not opposed to a person choosing to have sex for money if they ar edoing that because they choose, not because they have to as their only means of survival.
From: United States
Raulin... all women have sex for money, in one guise or another. so next time one of your friends tells you that he does not pay for sex, it simply means that he is not getting any.
From: Haiti
I really would like to know the causes of how a small country such as the Dominican Republic can have such a LARGE and thriving prostitution industry? Is it poverty? Many countries have higher poverty rates than the DR yet the industry simply isn't as big. Buenoha was correct in his mentioning of population sizes between the top four countries in this aspect. Brazil's population is extraordinarily great and so is the Philippines as compared to the DR's population of merely 9 million. So the prostitute-to-general population ratio is just way too big! What can possibly be the reason?
Written by: muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 12:54 PM
From: United States, New York City
Prostitution in D.R. (and P.R., for that matter) was insitutionalized during the colonial period.
There's an amazing book that I have called "Antología de la Literatura Puertorriqueña" where there is an account (not sure by who...possibly Fray Bartolomé de las Casas) of prostitution on both islands. Both islands were destined to become backwaters after the discovery of gold in Mexico and Peru. Both survived under the "situado" system...a form of welfare, if you will. A ship laden with supplies would call on both once a month with needed supplies and a ration of gold and silver. Waiting on the docks were not just women offering themselves, but young men as well.
This is also used as a starting point to trace what some historians and sociologists have considered the Puerto Rican dependence on a foreign power.
Written by: Belial, 24 Apr 2008 1:09 PM
From: United States, Texas
During the 1960s under the forceful Bobby Kennedy and 1970s, the bourgeois regime in the USA turned on the pimp elements of the US bourgeoisie (which were also involved in drugs, gambling, and political favors[assassinations] businesses). During the prosecution of the bourgeois pimps in the USA, the Cuban exile and Dominicans associates who were once only junior partners or just hired help of the US bosses rose to full partnership and became capitalist pimps and therefore some of the most distinguished individuals in their communities..
Written by: muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 1:13 PM
From: United States, New York City
Hey...Meyer Lansky!!!!
The great mafia boss of the Lower East Side. There's a club I go dance to every once in a blue called Lansky's in his honor. He was nobody's chief executive...ha ha ha! He was a bum!
Just a vagrant thought. I need some coffee before I meet with my next class!
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 1:21 PM
From: United States
dreadlocks, 24 Apr 2008 12:13 PM
From: United States
NYCDR, you assert that you will not allow people to say that prostitution is one of the major exports of the DR. i guess you intend to alter the statistics unilaterally.
NO.
50,000 Dominican women is not an entire/ majority of the population there or abroad!
Necessity I to travel abroad I understand. That their unconscious/conscious decision was made. We are not talking about cows here!
Its the moral and the immediate generalizations that I will simply not accept!!!
It creates prejudice!
How many millions of dominicans (including women) are abroad that are not prostitutes.
Please...
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 1:23 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks, the massage above was for you!!
:)
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 1:24 PM
From: United States
oops!
:(
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 1:24 PM
From: United States
message
From: United States
As I said and many echo-ed: this doesn't speak much bad of the women who chose this lifestyle; but it speaks volumes about the men running things....
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 2:35 PM
From: United States
Manhattanite: Explotaition: lots of women and children are also being brought to this country to be sex slaves. its the only merchandise that can be reuse(I am quoting a movie). Europeans as well as hispanics are brought here with the same story ( I dont know if anyone could really believes the opportunity in the states as a maid, model, intern anymore).
Written by: Escott, 24 Apr 2008 3:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a few days a month
Everytime I read Belial I feel like running to the corner of the room and Puking. Now he blames prostitution by Dominicans on the US and of course the Cuban Expat community in the US.
If exporting of prostitutes by the Dominican Republic is the biggest export industry you fail to notice that this is probably the biggest cottage industry within the country. if you don't agree suppose you can explain why they have roads filled with Cabanas in Santo Domingo and Santiago along with the rest of the country NOT EVEN VISITED BY foreigners?
This country is filled with prostitutes of every flavor and rotten crooked polititians and has been since the beginning of time. HOMEGROWN INDUSTRY except for Belial in Denial.
Sick twisted puppy that he is tries to blame everything on the US and of course the Cubans who couldn't stand that piece of crap Castro.
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 4:03 PM
From: United States
well said escott. i dont agree 100% but well said
Written by: JCjua, 24 Apr 2008 5:02 PM
From: United States, New York
Belial, I understand your theory.
But could you please summarize?
Something like: you get a guitar, drums and accordion, wait a couple of decades and you get Merengue...wait a couple of decades more and you get Bachata.
Written by: NYCDR, 24 Apr 2008 5:16 PM
From: United States
whao, someone is actually interested in that @#$%. :(
I thought that communism was dead :(
Written by: muchacho, 24 Apr 2008 8:36 PM
From: United States, New York City
Women in many countries around the planet have demonstrated for their right to do with their bodies as they please. And that includes selling it if they so wish.
If it were up to me, prostitution wouldn't exist. But since it does and has for centuries, it is best that the women who choose to engage in it enjoy legal and sanitary protection AND the right to direct their own line of work. That is the best way to get the pimps, who are usually men, out of the equation and put the power back where it belongs...the women who would otherwise end up exploited.
The Netherlands has successfully legalized prostitution and they don't have the astronomical rates of pregnancy, female abuse, and STDs that other countries that moralize and pontificate against it do.
From: Haiti
"If it were up to me, prostitution wouldn't exist. But since it does and has for centuries, it is best that the women who choose to engage in it enjoy legal and sanitary protection AND the right to direct their own line of work. That is the best way to get the pimps, who are usually men, out of the equation and put the power back where it belongs...the women who would otherwise end up exploited."
______________________________________________
I agree.
Written by: Belial, 25 Apr 2008 12:31 AM
From: United States, Texas
The sugar cane laborers union specified and denounce a number of large estates in the Santa Cruz province of Bolivia, where over 8,000 children work in the fields without pay.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3380 Efforts by the revolutionary government of Evo Morales to liberate the child slaves in Santa Cruz province of Bolivia have inflamed the Santa Cruz secessionist movement against Bolivia.
Naturally, the USAID, an agency of the US regime under Bush, is giving financial support to the Santa Cruz secessionists so that secessionists can hold on to their slaves.
The same thing is happening on some large sugar cane estates in the DR as the 2007 film "The Price of Sugar" attests, although Dominican slaveholders will exploit adults and children.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
when Russian Hookers flooded the market they were also concerned about this unfair guilt by association ...these sexist attitudes must be changed...by demeaning these poor women and their countries we devalue and marginalize them
Written by: Belial, 25 Apr 2008 8:12 AM
From: United States, Texas
There is a difficulty in distinguishing between national and international prostitution rings that are as organized as the FBI or Toyota car company, and any everyday streetwalker with a solitary pimp lurking in a doorway across the street, hoping his "ho" ... whether a man, woman, boy, or girl ... attracts a trick.
Is there a difference between the two operations? Which one is the DT dealing with in the article above?
It is true that both instances are cases of prostitution.
But is there a difference between vendor, a 67 year old widower, on the streetcorner proudly selling hogdogs out of his cart which he privately owns and the worldwide McDonald's chain of restaurants?
Are they identical because they both sell food?
And, returning to an old issue, are most of the hos in the DR (and many other places) males, not females, since prostitution is now more gay than straight?
Face it, most hos are guys.
Written by: Belial, 25 Apr 2008 8:36 AM
From: United States, Texas
Males hos ... especially boys ... are exported in huge quantities.
A good-looking boy goes for about $15,000 a head.
This is not a mom-and-pop prostitution ring of streetwalkers.
This is the glorious bourgeoisie ... your God.
Yes, your God pimps and operates hos on a grand scale.
Remember, a pimp is just another kind of ho.
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:07 AM
From: United States
Whao, Dreadlock: gouletcolonial from Canada made read all of your comments. Dude, dude dude...
I want to make it clear I dont think Dread is a communist. I think Belial is....
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:09 AM
From: United States
Whao, Dreadlock: gouletcolonial from Canada made read all of your comments. Dude, it is sad to see that your experience is so bad when it comes to your surrounding.
First and foremost, you said what about puertorican women... Please. I am not stereotyping but lets remember a few years ago when in NYC the PR parade where women where sexually assaulted, it was not by Dominican men, it was by PR men...
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:10 AM
From: United States
2. Most of these so called PR women cant get enough of dominican men and love to entice them...which i have seen over and over again...
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:11 AM
From: United States
Again Dread, I dont know where you been. I am sorry but your experiences and mine differ a lot...
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:16 AM
From: United States
People (with that I even include white, hispanics, asian etc) in general comment whenever they have a situation where one of the individuals gives off the vibe of insecurity or threaten. Like a drop of blood to a shark's nose.
We need to stop generalizing situations and saying that this only happens in our ethic group.
thats b.s. period.
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 9:18 AM
From: United States
We create the stereotype by repeating stupid cliques we hear from other dumb people who over heard it from other dumb people etc.
This is just like the saying "cria fama y echate a dormir"
:(
From: United States
NYCDR, i have no idea what you mean when you say you do not know where i have been... i live in new york! i do not need to hear second hand accounts, i see it first hand. and please, do not make ridiculous statements about puerto rican women not being able to get enough of dominican men. i do not know in which social circles you move, but the Puerto Rican women that i socialise with do not go out enticing men. there are low brow clubs in the bronx and manhattan wherein pr women do go looking for dominican men, for the basic reason that they seem to have more disposable income than their pr counterparts. but real pr women with jobs don´t go looking for guys to buy them drinks and coke. they do not frequent the after hours subculture, wherein most of that relationship exists. i am not demeaning dominican men, but you must realise that the preponderant majority of dr immigrants to the usa are not the most highly educated people with refined social graces. the pr women i associate with
From: United States
do not dance with men who dress in loafers without socks. not that anything is wrong with that fashion statement, its just a preference thing. similarly, they will not leave their seats to dance with a guy dressed in nike sneakers on a saturday night in a club. i am aware that some pr women look for dr women, but , as i said before, some slap their faces. when a woman works for the NYC Board of Education, and has a masters degree from a reputable university, she is not amused when some campesino grabs her on the gluteous maximus, believing it is his right so to do. she is not highly entertained when he tries to pulverise her crotch on the dancefloor. that might pass for acceptable in his social ecosystem... she finds it barbaric!
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 1:09 PM
From: United States
dude, I dont frequent nor have ever frequent after hour clubs...I have heard of them .
Grabbing glutes? Dude when you refer to this I could imagine your acquaintances frequenting these places.
I have not seen this yet! anywhere i have gone.
I live in NYC most of my life. But I know better than to go to certain places that have certain crowds.
Whether you hold a college degree or not, women in general dont welcome grotest behavior from anybody, specially from men.
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 1:14 PM
From: United States
Finally, I am educated and I do have a profession but I do not turn my nose and act like a snob because I took and had the opportunity to educate myself.
That is just plain stupid!
I, on the other hand understand that certain men and I will not much in common and just leave it at that.
Some people prefer wine, other beer etc. to each its own.
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 1:20 PM
From: United States
Dread, you sound like you have an issue with the thugs but like i have always said. "what is the solution" teach male children to behave like gentlemen.
Honestly, a lot of men (not just dominicans) are condecending to women. Their excuse, "chilvary is dead...cause women killed it" "you want to control a man" "well you wanted equal rights" "we need to go 50/50" these are the words of slimmy little worms who deserve to be alone.
Dont take the behaviors and works of scum and make an entire population responsible...
remember you are stereotyping...
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 1:23 PM
From: United States
Dont take the behaviors and words of scum and make an entire population responsible...
remember you are stereotyping...
From: United States
NYCDR, maybe i have seen more of new york than you have. i have no idea of what you are asserting when you refer to snobbery...i do not know if you are calling me a snob, or you are calling women who will not allow their asses to be grabbed snobs. as to insinuating that i frequent low brow places, i can say that the most resounding face slap that i have ever seen is one that happened at BROADWAY-96TH ST. that was not some lowlife club. i saw a puerto rican girl almost remove a guy´s face for grabbing her backside, whereupon he was ejected by the bouncer. this is not an indictment of all dominican men. i happen to associate with some of the classiest human beings one could ever hope to meet. ..but dominican men are not renown for their decorum around women. if you think they are, then you need to get out into the outside environments and ask a few opinions from women who are not dominican, who find some attributes unsettling..
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 4:04 PM
From: United States
Dread please re read your comment.: dreadlocks, 25 Apr 2008 12:53 PM and so on....
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 4:05 PM
From: United States
One incident does not add up to a total population...
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 4:06 PM
From: United States
Reputation... dude you may have more experience than me. I will not debate that. 96st dude. I have had stalkers thrown out of clubs and they are not dominicans!
So again your experience differs from mine. period
Written by: NYCDR, 25 Apr 2008 4:09 PM
From: United States
I forgot to mention the club. El copacabana, big deal. some men get the picture immediately other dont...
Written by: , 25 Apr 2008 6:56 PM
From:
Well this is interesting. I have to agree with you Dreads. The problem is that Most Dominicans like to project this image of tiguere whether directly or indirectly, it is as if one must adopt this title in-order to rightfully call yourself Dominican. Sadly with this title comes a swagger, a dress code and a dialogue that is too often associated with all Dominicans. And Dreads you are very correct in your post
(dreadlocks, 25 Apr 2008 12:53 PM) last two sentences
The preponderance of Dominican men do act this way. However there is a minority subculture of Dominicans unbeknownst to many that frequent classy speakeasies and after hours clubs. I can tell you this, I have gone to these places and many couldn't believe I was Dominican. One common statements were "Oh you don't look Dominican". Making reference to my verbiage dialogue, attire and demeanor.
From: United States
(Above Comments are from Ladronazo)
.....Years ago I would go to non Dominican clubs mainly because the environment was much more civil, organized and hospitable and incident free. I would meet women who refused to go to Dominican Clubs mainly because of the treatment, lack of respect, forwardness of Dominican Men and as many would state "the lack of class" or in typical terms "chusmeria". Hearing this time and time over again infuriated me to the point that I just gave up on the idea of trying to convince them.
Written by: dagtan, 25 Apr 2008 8:34 PM
From: United States
I would not only be concerned with prostitution abroad, but the fact that the DR is one of the top sex tourism countries. Our women are not only exployted by the foreigners, but also by the dominicanyorks who think that they have an green light to damage our women. This is the type of things that happens in countries where priorities are ill conceived and poorly chosen. I have in the past written about the inpact of lack of educational institution in a country that wants to get out of the stone age. Instead, the LF government has decided to do it just like the Balaguer government did in the past, which is by constructing ill conceived projects that do not provide any outlet for the people to have a better life and realize their dreams. Desperation gets people to do what ever it takes to do better, especially if they know that it is not possible through the conventional way. i.e. education. Remember the DR's education budget is $140 millions for about 2million students, about
Written by: dagtan, 25 Apr 2008 8:37 PM
From: United States
$141 per student. Cuba, a communist country that has been shocked by the US and which is not able to develop its tourism as the DR has done, spend about 10x that amount. The only way that I can describe this situation is by saying, EMBARASSING, DR, YOUR GOVERNMENT, LF, SHOULD BE EMBARASSED THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT IS OUTSPEND IN EDUCATION BY A COMMUNIST ISLAND.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
total population of bermuda,barbados is 330 ,000 trinidad 1.3 million for a total of ! million 600 thousand compared to 9 million attractive Dominicans dred what kind of a comparison is that and they have oil money in Trinidad more misogynistic rubbish from you
Written by: NYCDR, 26 Apr 2008 6:11 PM
From: United States
ladronazo, 25 Apr 2008 6:58 PM
From: United States
Again, your experience and mine differ.
Written by: NYCDR, 26 Apr 2008 6:15 PM
From: United States
dagtan, I agree with your statement.
Our women are not only exploited by the foreigners, but also by the dominican-yorks who think that they have an green light to use our women.
From: United States, NJ
Gentlemen:
As far as could remember in the 50's there was the biggest DR prostitute male named Porfirio Rubirosa. He was not called a male prostitute but a" DR play boy"by all the international medea.
What makes him diferent from the average pimps?. Money .He married the richest women at that time worldwide,.He never worked in his life. His carreer as a pimp started when he married Rafael Leonidas Trujillo's eldest whore daughter,
There is a diference of being a "whore & a prostitute", A prostitute does it for money and whore does it for pleassure.
Story goes Trujillo's eldest daughter used to pick the most hansome guy for one night from the military and next day he was killed by her henchmen.
As you well know an airplane in those days cost lots of money and the ownner of the 5&10 stores woolworth married him and gave him an airplane costing US$2millions.He loved car racing so much that he even got killed in one of those in France, if am not mistaking, so did Ramfis RLT's son.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
..". all women have sex for money, in one guise or another. so next time one of your friends tells you that he does not pay for sex, it simply means that he is not getting any." you say you are not misogynistic dred this is your quote how nice.....did someone in your family teach you this...senor macho man......this is sexist drivel and similar to your racist drivel
Written by: dagtan, 26 Apr 2008 10:49 PM
From: United States
MrThelmo, thank you for the briaf history lesson on Rubirosa, eventhough I knew already, but I think that many on this forum do not. And yes, Ramfis died in an automibile accident in Europe as well. Now, NYCDR, the point that I made comes from many years of small but very direct studies that I have worked on with others in the NYC area. If you look at the travelling records of Dominicans, the majority travelling are single males, that does not mean that they are not married or have some sort of family obligations here in NYC. What that means is that single male pruchase the plane ticket and board the plane. The next time you travel, make a quick count of how many single males comapre to actual marriages or single mothers travelling on that particular flight. I am glad that you agree, because that is the only way that this situation could be hit head on and discuss within our community.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 1:32 PM
From: United States
Dagtan: You do not have to run a study, all you have to do is hear men talk. I have spoken with many men who call DR "the land of wonders or EL PAIS DE LAS MARAVILLAS". On a flight back from DR I was sitting next to a white guy from Indiana who loves loves DR and its women. He wanted to send letters back. he was wearing boca chica logo clothes from head to toe. He told me that he would be back in less than 2wks. During the flight all i did was smile to be polite. The only thought on my mind was, another sex perverted fool. He told me that in his home town he would have never been able to be so free as he was in Boca Chica! :(
Well, I don't know what happened to him. If you go to livio.com Dominican cupid is the best example. A million dominican women posted and a million dominican gay men posted with pictures.If you read the logo they explain why dominican women don't care about being with older men. Its disturbing to say the least.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 1:42 PM
From: United States
The other awful thing which to me is a clique:Men who send money to women in DR because there are no good dominican women here! @#$%? These men live in deplorable conditions renting rooms eating 99cent food to send all the monies they can to these young women/young men to show that they are the "matatanes" in this country. Are the biggest fools in the world. Because we all know that the people downthere have no morals when it comes to money, they will sell you their soul and give you their virgin girls as long as you get them what they want (money, greencard etc). I hate to say it, its not isolated to DR other poor countries do the same.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 1:54 PM
From: United States
The irony of it all is that US women are jumping on the same wagon. I have seen women in tears after men from down there take their money play them out.
The latest trend college students or graduates (so called professionals or soon to be professionals) getting married and asking money from uneducated women here cause they are so in love, they found their match. Thats also prostitution. As soon as these so called professionals get what they want from them they disappear.
I hear the stories and feel sad for them.
I met homeattendants with doctors as husbands, factory workers with dentist or soon to be dentist janitors/maids and cab drivers with lawyers as husbands! all these women have told me the same :my husband is a great man and loves my fattiness, doesnt care i am not educated so far we are happy.
the husbands live in DR and wives live and work here. they all send money to the husbands.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 2:03 PM
From: United States
the one that is the most disturbing is: the men who are married down there and get with gay guys from here. I have spoken with guys who tell me that after being with men for days locked in cabanas. the guys confess(B#$%sh@$%) that they are straight and married. The gay guys continue these adventures with these straight married men! and give them everything. I was told by straight men that gay men give more money and stuff than women do!
That is PROSTITUTION!!!!
The problem: A major spread of VD among the population!
If not then check the US statistics (we can afford the stat studies) a major % of 14-19 teen girls in the US have chlamidia which makes the women steril, or have herpes.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 2:10 PM
From: United States
The solution: Inject and practice moral values in society.
Punishing not glorifying deviant behavior.
Your body is a sanctuary take care of it and protect it at all times.
Put God in your life not just on holidays.
From: United States
All this goes back to the simple fact. Lack of education. When a people do not have education and a hope for prosperity they resort to all sorts of unscrupulous activities. But this can't be solely blamed on the current govt. Rather a polemic of the previous governments especially the Balaguer administration who deprived the country of education and dignity. This is a culture that has was brewed and distilled generations ago.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Apr 2008 4:37 PM
From: United States
Both of you guys are right and I am glad that you both feel so passionate about such atrocities that are committed by foreingners and dominican yokrs alike. The reason why I often post with quantitative analysis and data is becuase as you know, we dominicans suffer from ultra-nationalism syndrome and people that come on this forum and speak the truth, but if that truth is negative, then you are anti-dominican or hatian. That is one of the underlining reasons as to why our people and country has not been able to snap out of the long standing crisis.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 5:17 PM
From: United States
Ladronazo& Dagtan:how can you change generations of retro-mentality?
Its hard to change someone who believes that by getting over other people or shaking them down is the way to live. cause they are slick and the others(victims) are not.
The lack of consideration, the lack of consciousness the lack of caring all goes back to I am slick and getting over you and you are my sucker.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 5:18 PM
From: United States
Ladronazo, its not lack of education and/or opportunity. Dude, every barrio has vocational schooling in the afternoons. So even if you don't want to take the academic route you can still do a technical course.
Its a poor mentality with a combination of unwillingness to do hard work.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 5:30 PM
From: United States
Dagtan, what you are confronting is people who are tired of hearing the bad reputation for dominicans in general which creates a stereotype. Sadly, we all then get judged by this...
ex:I went to club one night and 2 guys come over and ask where me and a friend where from. I responded "dominicans" he then tapped his friend and said "these are the good one". Dude to shake these guys off was close to impossible.
When I came home I asked my mom why did this guys behave like this...she then told me and I laughed my head off.
Its all based on what people repeat whether is true or not.
From: United States
Regarding post by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 5:18 PM
Yes it is Education. But in a generational and cultural sense. Though many have vocational education there is a difference between vocational certificate and degree bound individuals. There is a transformation that occurs in higher academia and advanced degrees. The human being undergoes a mental metamorphous that transcends ethnicity and race.
This is where the line begins to curve. The tribulations, sacrifices and lessons learned are passed down to our children in-order to avoid some of our same pitfalls. It is when they pursue education, knowledge and a successful career that we can begin to close the loop and complete the circle. Dominican mentality is still linear, and unable to close the loop.
It is the future generations that will benefit most from the education of their fathers.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Apr 2008 6:18 PM
From: United States
NYCDR, I have not posted on these forums in a while and as you might find out soon, I am failry popular with both sides and often have fierce battles about such topics wiht others here. I am glad to see that you are one of those few level headed dominicans that see things for what they are and try not to paint them to simply contradict the other (lol, a little sarcasm does not hurt). I get what you are saying clearly and understand that our defense mechanism has evolved into this monster I call ultra-nationalism among dominicans, but some of us are able to scape and see things in an objective manner. Poeple like us that see things objectively are the ones that are able to chnage the minds of those have come to consider the many dominican stereo types as the true and factual. In order to reverse the trend, we must have objective conversations and look at both sides od coin. The point that in the DR situtation there are more negatives than positives, does not justify the, cont
Written by: dagtan, 27 Apr 2008 6:20 PM
From: United States
ultra-nationalist's behavior or the abuse that they inflict on people of differing opinions. This type of behavior is what erode our respect among other groups and countries. We are considered a hot headed, hard headed people, who not see anything wrong with our country. That type of stereo type is vastly believed by our neighbors in the caribbean.
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 9:10 PM
From: United States
Ladronazo, the point I am trying to make is that: To follow an academic education you must be willing to do hard work, have patience and discipline which is something these individuals are not willing to do.
Dude, I don't about linear, I remember when I was college the majority of the hispanics were dominicans.
Education that is lacking is the one that is given in a home by parents. if that structure is right the rest falls into place easily....
Written by: NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 9:15 PM
From: United States
Dagtan, I don't know what you mean by other caribbean people. The same games that go on in DR go on in many poor countries so we are not the only ones with these problems. The difference is that we are more americanized than most of the other countries or have interacted with the US before it was 50 states. Therefore, we should be more advanced when it comes to education, values, and economics. We need to really face facts, there are some dominicans that do contribute not in a lime light but in the shadows to improve the nation. So there is hope. One may not see it right now, but things are brewing up... :)
From: United States
NYCDR, 27 Apr 2008 9:10 PM
You Stated: Education that is lacking is the one that is given in a home by parents.
A Men!
Yes I think I covered this when I said in my post:
27 Apr 2008 4:08 PM
""All this goes back to the simple fact. Lack of education..............""
27 Apr 2008 6:15 PM:
""Yes it is Education. But in a generational and cultural sense""
Why is it that so many Dominicans on the Island are corrupt. I'm sure their parents raised them with all the best intentions. But the overwhelming Societal forces changed them.
And please don't tell me that most Dominicans on the Island are not corrupt. Out of 100 Dominicans I'll be fortunate to select one that will pass the integrity test.
From: United States
I'm sorry to sound so cynical. But I have witnessed and heard and continue to hear of so many atrocities that I have little faith in Dominicans on the Island.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Apr 2008 10:18 PM
From: United States
Mr. Ladronazo, you are correct about the fact that Dominicans are a highly corrupt people. At the time, I must agree with you that for the most part, Dominicans parents want the best for their children, eventhough, they for the most part do not knwo how to achieve or put inplace the best for their children. The outcome of such lack of knowledge and education is that those children realize that the only way to survive or make it in the Island is by adapting to the system, which is in essence corrupt and malicious. So there is no oher ways, but to be part of the system, as NYCDR indicated, those are trying to change the system are working underground or from the distance here in the U.S. just like we are doing now. I am sure that we are going to strive to hve our offsprings change the way the first generation and second generation dominicans do things. Moreover, when I say or talk about our neighbors oin the caribbean, Ia m reffering to the other two greater antilles and how,cont
Written by: dagtan, 27 Apr 2008 10:25 PM
From: United States
these tow other island simply do not trust dominicans the same way they do trust each other. You can see that the political cooperation among Bahamas, PR, Cub and Jamaica are strong and often a good example of brotherhood. We dominicans are often kept afar, eventhough we are included, but not taken in as brothers. Another example is the caribbean festival here in NYC, I have been for a while working on some article with a some people I know from the bahamas. My concern is, why are cubans and puerto rican part of thier advertisement, while dominicans are not, some of the asnwers I get is that dominicans do ot recognize their african heritage, that dominicans are not team players and so on. I believe that this same kind of sentiment is present among leaders as well. It is not a far fetched statement, but it is worth examining more, if you guys have any friends from these other island,please ask them what is their percetion about us dominicans. Maybe you help me answer some ques
From: United States
Your post echoes my same sentiments. Unfortunately as I stated in one of my threads (not this one) Change must be initiated from abroad. Due to the fact, that the preponderance of the citizens on the Island all have a ulterior interest for entering any political movement or enterprise.
This is what I would truly like to see a Underground movement and a WatchDog Organization with resources and muscle to bring to light and Justice the ill conceived practices of all corrupt individuals.
And yes you are correct about the race and Team player issue. This is a factor, but a greater factor is the fact that Dominican Government just doesn't market itself effectively. They have taken the economical route and left the marketing and promotional aspects to the Tigueres, Titeres, Merengueros, Illegals and the rest of the mooncalf's that have promoted such a degrading image of Dominicans. Again it shows the governments incompetence in qualifying its applicants.
Written by: NYCDR, 28 Apr 2008 7:36 AM
From: United States
Ladronazo you said it.
I tried to do some motion to get something going there for the better of the dominican and hatian society.Needless to say everyone I spoke to tried to turn everything to be about them and their friend or relative who will hook it up which turned me off immediately.
In due time, God will find the way for it to be done.
I applaud your 3rd paragraph. Absolutely true.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
where are the women commenting on this thread ? the number of misogynists commenting is embarrassing .....Are all latino men this stupid? you guys would be laughed out of any educated forum.....that includes pompous blowhard who maintains ...that you pay for sex no matter how it happens......I hope you guys dont have any daughters ...God help them
Written by: NYCDR, 28 Apr 2008 2:07 PM
From: United States
gouletcolonial, i am a woman. Please read what was said before. dont get hung over what was said by Dread. He is basing it on his experiences with his environment. You cannot expect people to agree or have the same experiences you do. The best example is the bible, in the new testament 4 people accounted the life of Jesus Christ and all 4 books are not the same.
Gouletcolonial, agree to disagree... :)
From: United States
Personally I don't see a problem with legalizing prostitution. Prostitution as we all know is one of the oldest professions in the world. Now Don't grab the gravel and let loose the jury. I have many divers opinions and feelings towards many social issues. If one believes in legalizing Mary-Jane does this mean they smoke it? No.
If I am Pro Choice, does it mean that I am full support of abortion? No! Some issues are not Black and White as many would like you to believe. Prostitution in DR is not all initially because of the glamour of the occupation, but because of the necessities and opportunities that it can provide women. I have known of women (and married) in the DR who have improved their lives from the opportunities of their career.
Now, is this a career that I would endorse or encourage? No, by no means. But sadly this what the government has left them with. Sadly this is what our government has sowed.
Written by: NYCDR, 28 Apr 2008 8:23 PM
From: United States
Ladronazo, you state I have known of women (and married) in the DR who have improved their lives from the opportunities of their career. does this mean a married prostitute???
:(. but if it is. one question: what is the husband doing to earn a living? do you believe that a man loves a woman if he is willing to have men have sex with her? and please do not tell me that its different because its a job!!!
From: United States
NYCDR: No definitely not, and don't misinterpret my statements. I am saying that though I don't agree with the social atmosphere and culture that has been created in Dom Rep all attributed to the incompetence of previous governments, which has resulted in women and men resorting to undesirable life styles or career options, I cannot condemn nor judge them.
Now I don't advocate prostitution but I cannot condemn it either. If this is the only viable option within their means. I don't have right to condemn anyone. I can only try to rationalize their reasons and empathize and if permitted give alternatives.
FYI there are men (of which I'm sure you are aware of) that have wives that do work in Bars as prostitutes in the DR. Just the same there are strippers the world over, including the U.S that are married and have also taken this route.
From: United States
(continued)..This is my view, if it floats your boat albeit having other means, then that is your prerogative. However, If you are doing it because society and government has deprived you of options, then this pains me and it becomes and issue to be addressed..
Lastly for that man who who's wife is a prostitute, every one has a way to rationalize and justify their actions. What do you say about a married actress who's role demands her to kiss and fondle and be fondled by another man? Or be nude in front of another man? Well, the answer may vary broadly.
Only I walk in my shoes, therefore no-one can hold judgement against me for my actions. But when my actions infringe on the rights and liberties of others, I will then be open for criticism and judgment.
Written by: NYCDR, 29 Apr 2008 8:40 AM
From: United States
Ladronazo, Acting is not real, they don't have intercourse. Prostitution is acting but they do! I wont stand here and judge anyone for I am of this world and never know what can happen. I am also a woman which makes me less likely to judge other women.
Its all goes back to the same thing is a poor mentality. By that I mean you can give them a 100, 000 pesos and the poor will more than likely spend it on alcohol, showing off and be broke before the week is over. All of this without taking care of their living necessities. That my friend is poor mentality. When you take them out of their environment they are worst than a fish out of water.The real world becomes a nightmare. So the barrio is a heaven to them. :(
Written by: NYCDR, 29 Apr 2008 8:44 AM
From: United States
The cliques become the bylaws they live by. They don't question the bylaws, they act predictable and behave predictable. The sappy stories are predictable.
Its all predictable. But they all think they are unique and have so much to offer. Again, take them out of their world we are talking about frighten kittens.
From: United States
Well, goulet, i see you are having another hissy fit about my remark that men pay for sex in one form or another. if this is news to you, then i must surmise that you are still a virgin. as to NYCDR alluding to my particular environment being unique in the sex..money nexus, i would like to hear from her what is the conceptual difference between a guy who offers a woman 100 dollars straight up for sex, and a guy who takes a woman out for a lobster dinner and offers to pay her cable bill for the same act. as long as the intent is the same, to have meaningless, gratituous sex, the means to the end in this case does not have too much conecptual difference.
From: United States
furthermore, Gouletcolonial, your little tirade about me being misogynistic is too transparent to justify a response. you are a little too old to be trying to seem progressive and civilised...the Yukon renaissance man. whatever meritorious qualities you might possess are far outstripped by your embrace of exploitation and your disdain for all things of color. people included. so, being the human detritus that you are, you deflect by accusing others of qualities which are unacceptable, such as racism. if you were not so thick headed, you would realise that on this forum you are like the skunk at the picnic...just about everyone despises you, because you have mental issues you refuse to resolve. i have had differences of opinion with many other posters, but we can arrive at a civil conclusion. you are just a maniacal nincompoop always looking for a fight. the difference between us is cultural, a product of socialisation. let me explain anecdotally what i mean. some years ago, a group
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dred this is a slippery slope of personal tastes ,but in my mind that is the kind of attitude and talk that leads to the concept of treating women as sexual objects....I personally have two daughters and no longer I say no longer think like that.......so not only do I deplore exploitation of women I now deplore the objectification of women if there is such a word......to each his own
From: United States
of friends and i, 5 in all, and all men of dark skin, went to a club in toronto ,canada, to have a beer. without provocation or warning, two young men, whom Belial would characterise as the slime of the Yukon, walked straight into our table, spilling all the drinks and drenching our clothes in alcohol. the canadians in the bar all found this to be hilarious, as their two heroes offered mock apologies, all the while roaring themselves. in toronto, and to canadians, this perhaps passes for humor.in new york, nobody would have sat there laughing....they would have been looking for their car keys and the exit door. because in new york, an act such as that results in guys brandishing glocks and other hardware. in new york, gratituous provocation and taunting of others for no justifiable reason gets you hospitalised, or worse. in canada, it is apparently considered fun. i am not in a position to make a judgement as to who is right or wrong..its just different ways of seeing things.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
now dred this is a different subject bars in Toronto....I suppose you and your friends were attending an interior decorators or florist convention and by chance stumbled into a Biker bar that was your bad luck....But to accuse all Canadians and Torontonians of racism and bigotry is unfair.....Toronto was a stop on the Underground Railroad and has a long history of tolerance
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
you are quick to go to weapons......,remember this is what got Mr Bell a new coffin.....I hope these are not the kinds of bars you are hanging out in dred......you know what I mean the drugs and hookers etc. this would also reflect your attitude towards women
From: United States
actually, Goulet, the issue of what caused the incident is not the focus of my statement. i am not accusing canadians of being racists. i am simply saying that in a situation such as the one i described, it does not matter what caused the disturbance. whether it was over a woman, one guy stepping on another guy´s shoe, or laughing at his tie, it matters not. tipping over a table full of drinks on a group of strangers is not the kind of act which elicits uproarious and unrelieved laughter in new york. on the contrary, it causes people to panic and vacate the joint before the aggrieved parties go to their car glove compartments and return with firepower. which is probably the reason why i do not taunt people...i have seen firsthand results of such nonsense. in your case, given your proclivity to insult, harass, and generally annoy people, my prescription to you is to minimise your ventures and forays into the usa, or choose well your targets of torture..
From: United States
actually, Goulet, i have never fired a weapon in my life, except at an amusement park, attempting to win stuffed animals. and i am a liitle too old to be hanging out with the young turks in tittie bars.but you actually, by the law of unintended consequences, help to make my point when you refer to Sean Bell. his guys were going for the glocks to light up some other guys for what they considered to be taunting....maybe you get my point by now..
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I hope we dont see you marching with rev .AL
From: United States
can you tell me how Al Sharpton gets into this....you really seem to have some fixation against black folks of all types. you have issues, dude.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
come on Sharpton is going to shut down New York with a big march..like Bensonhurst and all his other extortions...I thought you might be there with a banner.....but since his Jag got towed maybe not
From: United States
To: NYCDR, 29 Apr 2008 8:40 AM
Look the issue is not of wether they have intercourse or not. The issue is why these individuals have resorted to this life and how they are able to rationalize the decision they have made. Individuals have boundaries and these limitations may depend all on ones personal preferences and attitudes towards life in general. Where one individual under any circumstance or condition would not tolerate another man touching his wife, another would find it permissible depending on wether or not he feels it infringes on his values, his boundaries and self worth. Yes socio-economics in our country has much to do with it, but the final decisions is in the rationalization used.
What and Why am I doing this?
What will it accomplish?
Will I be better off 10-15 years from now?
How will this affect my life and those around me?
Who will benefit most from my actions?
Can I live with my decision.?
Written by: NYCDR, 30 Apr 2008 2:42 PM
From: United States
Ladronazo, the problem is. do they really ask these questions before they go in head first to this lifestlyle. The answer is: depends on how these individuals were raised and the values the parents instilled in them. If you have generations of demoralized values, then there were no real questions asked, its expected.
If you have 3 generations of pro do you believe they ask these questions of themselves?
Do you really believe they live in peace?
From: United States
As cynical as I am towards my own Dominicans I have to believe that yes we do ask our selves these questions. Perhaps not in the same order or all at once. Another factor the rational for our answer.
People are not robots. People are human and though have different needs they do think about the consequences of their decisions. I do believe some of their decisions are programmed from generations however, most initial decisions are not programmed. It is a human process that takes and measures risk and benefits. It is after reoccurrence or experiencing the same conditions that perhaps we draw from preprogrammed decisions. So as poor as they may be, they do ask themselves these questions just as the rich would also do....
From: United States
(continued).....
If your issue is the immorality of prostitution, then as Dreads stated in his post 30 Apr 2008 12:28 PM What is the difference? What's the difference if I have a close friend with benefits? Does this mean that we are both (my friend and I) immoral? Heathens to burn at the stake!
Written by: dagtan, 30 Apr 2008 9:50 PM
From: United States
Guys, Guys, I must intercede here for minute, before the substance of the post is totally lost. The fact that the outcome of such encounter is the same and the intentions for producing such encounter are the same, them, yes, NYCDR, it is the same thing as both Dread and Ladronazo stated. Moreover, yes, once again, dominican woemen do ask themselves these great questions posted by ladronazo, as do the women in the U.S. and any other part of the world that take plunge into prostitution. Att his particular time in the DR, the most productive job other than the politcal post and the reserved positions for the hijos of papi and mami, is indeed prostitution. Now, before you all jump around like crazies, my statement is directly linked to income ration across jobs. For example a typical doctor in the DR today earns about $1600 us dollars a month, a prostitute easily net that in a week depending on her age and most in two weeks time. So when they ask themselves those questions, cont.
Written by: dagtan, 30 Apr 2008 9:56 PM
From: United States
that ladronazo posted, they know what they are doing and the possible pitfalls that they are goping to encounter and maybe, just maybe, the possible unintended consequences of their decision to go into prostitution. However, at the end of the day this is the only way out of immediate extreme poverty, the way to by medication, food, clothes and myabe rent a clean room and help sent the younger siblings to school. NYCDR, it is clear that you have not experienced day to day dominican life, as a native dominican who dis not have anyone out side helping them with monthly income. You know, sometimes we find people here that their exprience with DR is from the eyes of a foreigners becuase they either came here at a young age and upon returning the parents tried their best to isolate them from the reality by way of their sacrifices or they just american-dominicans or any other. I think that people who not born there and live in extreme poverty there have no idea what is going on.
From: United States
Dagtan, Thanks for hammering some of the nails for me.
From: United States
the article refers to women working in the sexual market abroad, and does not glance at the amount of women working locally, which has got to be exponentially greater. the situation has several dynamics, not the least of which is the lack of value which the male sector of society places on womanhood, and the concomitant lack of value women place upon themselves. there are poor societies all over the globe, but i would not advise any of you to go to Trinidad, Guyana, Barbados or Jamaica and ask any man if he has an attractive sister who might be interested in a little sexual congress for money. drinking an ample dose of cyanide would represent a more merciful death. in the DR, if you ask a cab driver where you can find a little "action", he is apt to bring you his sister, and, in cases i have seen, his daughter. the situation is, of course, aggravated by abject poverty and the unfair distribution of wealth and opportunity, both characteristics of ex-spanish colonies. ironically,
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
" Drinking Rum and Coca Cola " a song about hookers in Trinadad " mother and daughter workin for the yankee dollar" goes the song
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
now they got oil
From: United States
these Papist regimes, which are so outwardly religious, display greater levels of moral bankruptcy than the protestant traditions of the british types, what with their stiff upper lips and outward decorum. factor into that the inner belief that caucasian gringos are the marvels of the earth, and you have people who are willing to sell their souls to put food on the table. (some do have dalliances with the limited numbers of colored visitors, but that statistic is diminimus and serves only to muddy the premise). some women actually find it uplifting to juxtapose themselves with a european or north american, since they see these types to be earth's premier denizens. i have spent years in the DR, from time to time, and have seen no parallel anywhere else in regard to the mad rush that dominican girls engage in , in order to get a gringo for themselves. i see them strutting around with the most scurrilous and decrepit of degenerates, drunks and bums, loathsome vermin, but they are as
From: United States
proud as peacocks, because, unlike their lesser sistren, they have a blanco. i once saw a young girl screaming at an american, who was denying fatherhood of her expected child.she told me how much she hated him, and said that she never did like him, even at the beginning. i was forced to ask why she would allow herself to be impregnated by a man she so outwardly despised. her response to me was" Because i wanted a white baby". well, darlin, i guess you got one!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
having lived in many parts of the Caribbean english and spanish I can tell you the local women on the the small english speaking islands which is most with few exceptions are quite homely due to the amount of incest practised through out these small islands,......the DR a much more homogenized group produces women of great beauty and the size of the gene pool is much larger
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I*n Trinidad they brought them from Venezuela also very beautiful women
From: United States
Goulet, might you point me to an anthropological study which concludes that incest produces "homely" progeny? before you do that, could you point me to one which concludes that the practice of incest is rampant in the smaller caribbean islands? these assertions are rather entertaining, but are they supportable by evidence?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
30 years of experience.....and if you think you have seen some ugly black people.....go to St Barts there is some really strange looking white people there from marrying their cousins for so long....that is the shallow end of the gene pool
Written by: dagtan, 1 May 2008 9:08 PM
From: United States
All I can say is that I would love to bash you dred for what you wrote, but it is the harsh truth and nothing but praises could be given to you for putting them in such simple and clear terms. I have know these facts for a while now and as you have noticed, I have gotten in trouble for pointing them out before, but the truth never changes, until the people creating that truth decide to change it. Everything goes back to our illusion and belief that white is better and that white is superior to other races or simply put, the black race. I know that we can not genralize the entire Dominican population, since my wife is a white dominican and I am a black dominican, but the truth of the matter is that idea about white supremacist is extremely powerfull in DR. I learn this first hadn when I first met my wife and the many trickities that her family created to kep us apart. This attitude was despide the fact that I was both academically and materially far superior to her at the time, con
Written by: dagtan, 1 May 2008 9:14 PM
From: United States
that I met her. The infactuation of such beliefs and how the government continues to support such violation of the mind in the DR, things will not chnage. White men and women of foreign origins know this and take full advantage of it. We in the DR have a huge IDENTITY problem and I hope that one day we have a government that would get the ball rolling in helping our people find out who they are and love themselves for what they are and not hate or degrade themselves for what they wanted to be. We are really missing on the benefits of the rich African and Taino heritage that we have. I envy the Cubans for their proudness of their Africanism and the Puerto Rican for theirs in the Taino, in the meantime we are all cought up in skin color definitions and criticizing those who do look white and have KINKI hair. What I want to say to all dominicans is "SI DEL CIELO TE CAEN LIMONES, APRENDE A HACER LIMONADA"
Written by: NYCDR, 2 May 2008 7:42 AM
From: United States
Whao guys, I will like to first start with Dagtan. I am not surprised at your wife being dominican white and you being dominican black. You are the typical clique in that usually black dominican and blacks in general tend to find that once they educated themselves or have some of sort of money it has to be a white woman or a white woman or else no other woman is good enough for you to settle down with! don't get offended! you even admitted she was not at your level, which also does not surprise me! this is part of the same mentality! :) but hey if it rocks your boat then good for you!
Before you jump into the conclusion of bitter black b@#$ I am of the lighter tone. The JLO tone of skin (NO BS). I don t have that kind of a problem. I just observe the repetitive nonsense and grin at how vain people could be... :)
Written by: dagtan, 2 May 2008 8:26 AM
From: United States
Not at all NYCDR, I at no time decided that just because I came to the US and was able to leave behind the extreme poverty in which I lived in DR and became sucessful here in the US, that a white woman was in order. It seems to me that you did not read my posts correctly or simply decided to give meaning to my words. You see in the DR, my wife's family belong to the upper class, if you might called it that way. They live very comfortable and are most dentists, since it runs in the family for some reason. They also, own a vast amount of land and often receive favors that people like would have never gotten over there. But here in the US, the coin flips to my favor, in the same that I have a six figure salary job and have a very stable economic life. On the other hand, as many professional and often old money poeple that come from third world countries suffer from a devaluation of their status, my wife family is still going through that transition. I hope that you understand, cont
Written by: dagtan, 2 May 2008 8:31 AM
From: United States
that concept and affect of dominicans as they migrate. You see, that family was reluctant, because they were still thinking like if they were in the DR, that is the reason why they did not bother to look at my status, education and civility, but only concentrated on the color of my skin. NYCDR, you are showing lack of knowledge on the dominican identity crisis. In the DR, poor people from villages with no education, feel more superior to black doctor, lawyer and even rich business men, they value skin color more than enything. Have you ever heard a dominican say, I am poor, but atleast I am white, if not, you have not spend alot of time with our people. Finally, I am not a biter black dominican, since I am extremetly proud of myself and family and I am extremetly proud of my achievements in this society. Not one time have I spend a waste a minute of my time thinking about my skin color as a disadvantage. Most of my frends are white as a default of the job environment in which,
Written by: dagtan, 2 May 2008 8:34 AM
From: United States
I am. My wife thank God is a very sucessful professional here in the US and I was able to achieve something I always wanted to do, which is was to prove to people that it is possible to create a sucessful hispanic family in the US. I know there are many and we need to start giving publicity to these families, so their exprience serves us well. TO THINK THAT I SAW NECESSARY TO GO WHITE WITH MY WIFE, DUE TO MY SUCESS IS SIMPLY SICK AND IGNORANT ON YOUR PART NYCDR, AND ONLY SHOW HOW SHORT SIGHTED YOU ARE. I FEEL SORRY ABOUT YOUR THINKING.
From: United States
nice to read you again Dagtan. hope all is well with you. sadly, the most critical assertion in your post is the one in which you observe that caucasians understand the dominican identity crisis and capitalise upon it to marginalise the locals. the ill treatment which dominican nationals receive at the hands of gringo, the disrespect they are forced to endure in their own country, along with the exploitation, is not something which would be permitted in most of the other caribbean islands. i was in a bar in the DR once, and some german guy came strutting in as if he owned the place. dominicans were stepping aside , as he scowled his way in, his countenance distorted with amused disdain and contempt. i asked a local the identity of the tough guy, whereupon he told me¨that is klaus, and he is a real tough guy....everyone is afraid of him. well, folks, there are no ¨real tough german guys called klaus¨in barbados, or trinidad, or jamaica. if guys like this want to preserve their
From: United States
physical well being, they are advised to behave with extreme respect and decorum in those lands. the only tough guys in those countries were born there! they do not suffer fools gladly there, and being european or north american scares nobody there!
Written by: NYCDR, 2 May 2008 1:30 PM
From: United States
Dagtan, good for you! sick minded nah. i said from the very beginnning if that is what rocks your boat be my guess. TO THINK THAT I SAW NECESSARY TO GO WHITE WITH MY WIFE, DUE TO MY SUCESS IS SIMPLY SICK AND IGNORANT ON YOUR PART NYCDR, AND ONLY SHOW HOW SHORT SIGHTED YOU ARE.
MY short sight hahahaha!!! you said it again that the majority of people there are vain. The color of the skin may mean a lot to people there (and here)if it doesnt include you, then good for you!!!
I am not impressed by your achievements (sorry :( ) good for you.
Its good to know that I am not alone.
Written by: NYCDR, 2 May 2008 1:35 PM
From: United States
Dagtan, the only thing that keeps repeating in the comments are that DR is very far behind when it comes to human relations among its own people. That I cannot even fight, its fruitless...skin has nothing to do with an individual can offer to the world!
2008.
From: United States
what am i selling, Goulet? might i offer you a free trip to some of the neighborhoods in new york in which people will be highly entertained by your proclivity to taunt and harass people? a look at the chronology of your postings shows that you respond to everything i write within 30 seconds...something like a demented stalker. you seem to be picking a fight, secure in the knowledge that you are far away and anonymous..again, as i said before, this is what probably passes for humor in your neck of the yukon.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
huey P Dred dont flatter yourself....but it is nice to see your humorous side from time to time....instead of the embittered troublemaker and uber racist that you usually project
Written by: dagtan, 2 May 2008 5:20 PM
From: United States
NYCDR, I did not post part of my sucess on this fourm with the intention of impressing anyone, since I do not have the need nor the desire to do so. Once again NYCDR you are missing the point here. Please re-read my post and hopefully you will get it. What I simply stated was that in the DR cultiral value scheme, color of skin is extremely powerful and vlaued by our people. The vlaue system tends to decrese as the skin color becomes darker, if you do not know this, please read up on our history of race and interactions with other countries that we consider either whiter or darker than us. The point here is that I exprienced something that is totally unfounded and counter productive to development of any society. As far as your acheivement is gives me real sadness, that with such achievements as you indicated that it is good to know that you are not along, is simply scary that you are so naive about humans interaction and behaviors. Your statement about drk skinned men, cont
Written by: dagtan, 2 May 2008 5:22 PM
From: United States
who are able to become sucessful marrying a white women because they themselves consider women of color inferior is the most ignorant comment I have hear from someone of your achievemnets level, if I am to consider you not impressed by mines, which I really do not care, nor was I looking for you to be impressed. It seems that your education level have not liberated you from the shackles of the mentality of race superioty.
From: United States
goulet, why are you continuously pestering me? shouldn´t you be home washing your hood and sheet, or did one of your servants already expedite that task? then you can pop on over to David Duke´s digs for dinner...maybe fire up the pickup truck and drag a few darkies behind it..high entertainment for one such as yourself, no doubt
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
cant you be at least subtle when dealing the slimy race card as usual from the bottom of the deck.....it is a card not a domino to be slammed on the table
From: United States
you see, goulet, it is people like you that embitter me..i despise people who use the term ¨troublemaker. it reminds me of massa, who used to attach that label to any slave who dared to speak out against injustice. well, i am like the baseball umpire: i calls them as i sees them. when europeans and north americans come to the DR and treat the folks here like garbage, it boils my blood. neither you nor any of your white supremacist brethren will ever be able to deny me the right to speak out against it. if you expect me to say ¨ahs a sorry, massa goulet, but i will not makes any more trouble, suh. when ahs a finished picking the cotton, me, Kingfish and Sidemeat will comes over to the great house and sings and dances for you and Miss Daisy, suh., then you have another think coming. as i told you before, but you do not get it, we see things from different perspectives. i believe we all should be equal in the sight of the Maker; you believe some of us are more equal than others.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
your embittered because the Latinos no matter what hue of colour have passed American blacks by in their accomplishments thats why your bitter....everybody had it tough ....but they did not sit around and whine and complain......the great society robbed american blacks of their hard earned dignity...5 generations of welfare among other things created nothing but resentment .....let us hope the young generation of educated blacks can withstand the allure of the of the gold toothed hip hop thugs....which if you were a little younger you would be part of.....to you Obama is a bum and Stanley Crouch is a tom....I suppose Colin Powell is a traitor to his race along with Vernon Jordan
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I have many friends far far more accomplished than you from all over America who are black who come here to play golf at Casa....they can express your sentiments, they see it like you do in a far more constructive manner and are able to see it with a liitle more tolerance than you...but then again they are better educated in all ways....like I said Latinos are not buying what your selling
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
you are selling HATE........get over it
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 7:41 AM
From: United States
Goulet, I have correct you in few things here. You make some good points about acomplished African Americans, yes they see things i a different light. The reason for that is those acomplished African Americans bthat you speak of have come to realize that speaking out, going against and simply rejecting the white domininat position in the american society is counter productive. What they have done is simply adapt to the situation and work within those confines in the hope of changing the institution, to allow those of weaker desire to be sucessful as well. For them to achive such grandious in the american society, was both paintful and difficult, but yes it is possible. They are not fanatics, ultra-nationilists, instigators, or even activist, they indeed like Obama, progressive blacks that see things just like King Jr. and Dubois did. They want top work things out in united front and get away from the mentality of separation and hate. As far as Dread's comments, they come from,
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
the civil rights movement started long before Dr King by people whose names have been forgotten by the punk trouble makers ....it started long before Jackie Robinson walked on a major league Baseball field for the first time and it started long before Philip Randolph was invited by FDR to the white house the struggle for equality is an old and difficult labour...but no other country in the world deals with its racial problems with more truth and progressive motion than the USA. one may only look at the level of accomplishment by the black race in America ...The gold toothed thugs call these people sellouts and uncle Toms....and rely on the words of people I will not name ....but are discredited idiots and extortionists for their own gain ....when our own great black "scholar " H. Rap dred calls Obama a bum for not sticking by a discredited lunatic you know where THOSE people are coming from....let us pray those types are now Passe...THE PAST
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 8:59 AM
From: United States
a different point of view. From the treatment and look down attitudes of foreigners towards Dominicans. In the world stage, the DR is only a vacation and have fun spot, it is not treated with the same respect as let cuba and puerto rico. The reason for this goulet, is that we have not made a clear effort in defining ourselves and emabracing our oringins. As I have stated before, Dominicans by enlarge suffer from a lack of self-esteem and self-confidence, and they are very negative about self-image. Dread, is right about the look down and taken as an item mentality of foreigners when is come to dominicans, this is becuase we have allowed them to do this to us. As far as LATINOS doing better than African American, you are dead wrong on that goulet. African Americans make a large part of the american economic power base. I believe that have never visited the US, specially staes such Georgia, NC, SC, Virginia, MD, Michigan, Illinois and others, where you will fine a huge African,
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 9:00 AM
From: United States
American upper class majority. No, they are not rappers, but docotors, lawyers, economists, and others. Rappers make up a small part of the African American power base. Goulet, sometimes, just sometimes you sound very ingnorant, please do your homework. We hispanics, have a long way to go to catch to African American sucess here in the US, I do not know what the situation is in Canada, when it comes to blacks and latinos.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dag I am not a bigot My daughter is of colour and she is the most important thing in my life I am constantly trying to help her be self aware.....she is the sun in my life...in my heart of hearts I could not be a racist....I battle it every day of my life
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dag you are not studying the same demographics on latinos and here I speak again of Cuba ,Puerto Rico and the DomRep and not the the south west mass movement of illegals...and dag I hold dual nationality Canada and USA...when I was a young person in Canada which used to pride itself on its tolerance Dick Gregory the famous comic used to say Canada is good to its black people ....BOTH OF THEM.....now 40 years later it is very different
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dag you must remember the Dominicans are the last ones invited to the party there time is coming...I have lived in PR for 5 years and I love it I hope it becomes the 51st state BUT they were in the trenches of Latino identity for almost 100 years in America the Cubans also did not just wash up in America in 1959 they have along history there ......now all latino peoples are reaching critical mass in the USA look to your traditions they are strong and pay no attention to the ignoramuses who come here an act badly...you dont need Huey P dred to constantly be telling you how to live your culture look to people like Senor Junot Diaz your time is coming and it is soon
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 11:47 AM
From: United States
Goulet, as I indicated, you made some great points, but it seems to me that Dread and you are talking about different things. On one hand hand you are talking about the sucess fo latinos in comparison to African americans and the source of frustration in both groups. Dread is talking about the degrading attitudes of foreigners towards native dominicans when they go there. He is also, saying that we dominicans have allowed whites to continue to rape our country and identity, due to our infactuation with the white skin. I like the fact that you know or read Junot, he is great and I really like his work, especially his last about the dominican experience and how that lends itself with the american culture. If you read Junot, then my respects go to you, because he is great. Hey, I hope that one he help me with my project at the time that I am ready t publish. I have met him a few times at Columbia University, but have never held a conversation with him. Goulet, I do not think,
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 11:48 AM
From: United States
that you are racist, nor have I ever said that you were. I guess that we have different views about the Dominican exprience and how the government behaves.
From: United States
actually, Goulet, i do not tell anybody how to live. every man has a right o choose his own strategy for defining his identity. i have one point, and one point only in this discussion. when i go to the united states and canada, and people choose to take liberties with me, i have to be prepared to accept them to a certain degree, because they are in their own countries, and i am not. however, i am not going to stay still when foreigners come here and seek to treat people with indifference and rudeness, simple because they see them as being beneath humanity. as i posted once before, i was privy to a conversation in which a european said of his local girlfriend ¨she is a nice girl sometimes, but other times she forgets her place and i have to remind her that she is just a dominican.¨i am tired of hearing people planning to open businesses intended for the gringo trade, and saying that they ¨do not want to encourage dominicans to come there, because it will discourage DECENT people from
From: United States
visiting. i am sick and tired of being in establishments in which both foreigners and dominicans are seated in juxtaposition, when some foreigner comes in and says hello to all the caucasians and ignores the existence of the locals. it bothers me further , because when i am seated in a restaurant eating a meal, all the dominicans give me the time of day and say¨buen provecho¨, even though they do not know me. i am tired of being seated at a table with two or three foreigners, only to have another foreigner come to the table and say hello to everyone else, ignoring me as if i was not there. this happens to dominicans at every turn of the way. it is not a matter of lack of courtesy; they know better. it is the way they perceive certain people. and dominicans notice it, and are incensed by it. not because you do not know this means it does not exist. you need to examine some of your own demons, my friend. i am a trained project economist, but the only people you can seem to associate me
From: United States
with is ¨gold teeth rappers¨. you make the most idiotic statements, which have no foundation in data or reality, such as your assertion that blacks have been eclipsed by hispanics in achievement in america. which america might this be? would you like to buttress this contention with data, or is it just another instance of ¨i, gouletcolonial say it is so, therefore it must be right¨?.you are one of the idiots who believe that if we do not make mention of racism and injustice, it will go away by itself. even if it does not go away, who cares? i am sure you hate huey newton, malcolm x,rap brown, stokeley, martin luther king, rev ralph abernathy and marcus garvey, because they dared to speak out against injustice. you are strangely silent on types such as george wallace, david duke, the klan, and all other white supremacist types. you rail about black american shortcomings, but seem to have no negative feelings toward lynching, slavery, jim crow, etc. you rail against mugabe in
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dread it is a disgrace the way many people behave here I am nauseous at the attitudes of ignorant uncultured people who come here to get warm and drunk....but and this is a very large but think of how the conquered people of Germany and Japan felt after the war being treated bad and not just the conquered but all the people of europe who had to kow tow to american GIs only because they had 5 bucks in their pocket and these were people that had rich cultural histories and education in the long run it worked out....the American people have big hearts and like to help the underdog....Bad behavior by some swine should not be a cause for violence to be directed at these dummies you will be throwing the baby out with the bathwater
From: United States
Zimbabwe, but seem to have no harsh words for ian smith. as i said, goulet, we see things from our experiences. your ancestors never had to deal with being the victims of slavery, so it has no effect on you. they probably profited handsomely from it. mine, on the other hand, were in the antipodal position. so i do not need you to instruct me in how i should think about discrimination. i will see it through the lense of a black man, and you can see it from the caucasian perspective. i will rail against any form of human abuse, and you can continue to implore me to stop causing trouble, as you call it. but, dear enlightened goulet, i did not get my head cracked by cops in freedom marches during the sixties to have a maggot such as yourself dicate to me how i should think about racism, exploitation, oppression and disrespect. go tell the Jews to forget the Holocaust; when you get their response, if you survive, we will discuss this further!!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
IF you dont think Latinos got further faster than the blacks you better not hit that bong any more Huey
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
ian smith thats ancient history and if he ran against mugabe today he would beat him like an Iraqui prisoner no doubt about it the populace would probably love to be able to eat again
From: United States
goulet, one of the main reasons why you will never learn very much of anything beyond cigars and golf courses is because you do not listen. listening is a function of courtesy, of which you have none. you are too confrontational and opinionated to learn from others; here i am, trying to make a point, and the best you can do is to interrupt. it is obvious that the page ran out of letters, yet, instead of waiting for my complete response, you have to butt in like an uncouth, uncivilised neanderthal, putting in your two cent´s worth in order to shut me up. you do not have to agree with me, but you should be well-mannered enough to wait your turn. again, it shows the relative importance you place on others. you want your say, and you want it NOW; the hell with every one else and their opinions. i hardly ever agree with you, but i allow you to finish your thoughts, however insane they may be. and kindly give me DATA, DATA, DATA, not OPINION,OPINION,OPINION, to solidify your assertion
From: United States
that hispanics have made more progress in the usa than american blacks. show me FIGURES!
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 3:26 PM
From: United States
Goulet, eventhough, I'll love to agree with you, I must disagree on your opinion about Latinos making more progress than African American in the U.S. Your argument is DOA even before anyone can look at it. Goulet, I am a Dominican immigrant and will always defend my people, at least those that are trying to do the right thing here in the U.S. I have always tried to find a nice middle or upper middle class hispanic community in which to raise my kids, but have found none at least here in the U.S. However, there are many like those made up of African Americans, moreover, we here in the U.S. have a hughe number of African Americans with fortunes larger than many Latin American countries combined. I believe tghat we have only five Latinos bellionaires in the U.S. and two of those own the sugar canes fields in the DR en La Romana, which is the largest in the country, they are Cuban, the other is the family that owns Tropicana, which is Cuban as well and finally, the Bacardi family,
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dag they did not exist in the USA in consequence 70 years ago the strides have been enormous the envy from the black community is palpable
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 3:41 PM
From: United States
who resides in PR who are Cubans as well. There are many African americans that are well established here in the U.S., we have a long way goulet to catch up to the African Americans. And remember goulet, that African americans were brought here by force and we decided to come here, so our motivation factor should be higher than theirs. I am not making excuses for their lack of sucess, but for a long time, goulet, the american system was designed to keep african americans down and this is not conspiracy theory, it is the truth. This information is readily available, I have to say that the great majority of whites today are not racist and to some degree feel bad about this dark chapter in their country. African americans need to start leaving the legacy of slavery behind and start working with whites for a better future. I believe that this is happening, since the numbers of African americans in college have increased and the % of graduates continues to increase.
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 3:48 PM
From: United States
Your argument about time in the U.S. is a very valid one, goulet. If you put it in simple straight numbers of years as a quantitative measurement of progress, then yes you right. The first hispanics arrived here in the early 1920's from PR, by boat to Manhattan Island. I am not counting mexican, since I consider those in northern mexico americans since they were adsorved by mexican-american war. Yes, the progress of hiapnics has been great and many have done well, but the comparison has no merit, I tell you why goulet. If you ask me about the time when African americans started enjoying almost equal opportunity within the American system, I would have to say the 1960's after Jim Crow was removed. Remember, that African americans have been slaves longer what they have been free in the U.S. On the other hand, hispanics have never experienced what the African american experienced even in their own respective islands. Slaves in the islands were not demonized as they were here,
Written by: dagtan, 3 May 2008 3:53 PM
From: United States
in the U.S. Neither, did the islands blacks experienced a government sponsered system of repression as cruel and evil as Jim Crow. Instead, the white population in the caribbean decided to hold on to whealth and keep the blakc masses in the dark, which they have been sucessful in doing for the exception of Cuba after 1959, the Cuban revolution show clearly that blakc nations could compete and be competitive in the modern world. The African american experience I believe is one of the most pervasive in human history, and I believe that the U.S. a country which I love dealry would never be able to shake that black chapter of their history books. I am not making excuses for the African americans, since I believe that many use the race card in order to committ rime or not do anything with their lives. I hate rap, yes, I hate it because, it is such a bad way of representing a people that suffered so much. Should they put slavery aside and go to work, sure, they must.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dag reading quickly I see something that is not considered to be correct by scholars...the life of slaves in the caribbean was far worse than in the Americas...you cannot imagine the Danish west indies or barbados this was far worse than life over all in New orleans for example and the French of the Carribbean were the worst...the people of the Carribean have slavery running through their veins just like the blacks of the old south .....it is not my place to discuss degrees of inhumanity practised against others..Or with Population levels of the Spanish Antilles versus the smaller islands of the english speaking Carribbean....But American blacks do not have a monopoly on injustice the native Hawaians and the Native Indians can you imagine the hard ships and injustices .....then the immiigrants themselves with their Pogroms and famines,life is not easy press on....Bitterness and resentment will gain you nothing....nada ....zero
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dag I have lived and traveled throughout the Caribbean for 35 years Walcott and Diaz have a perspective that is very unique of the Antilles I Iove it after so many years I am its prisoner And I cannot escape it..... If you wish to read about it from the perspective of the white American read" Dont Stop The Carnival" it is very funny.Herman Wouk wrote it while living in St Thomas in the early 60s ...it is considered a hand book for relocating to the West Indies But the Spanish Antilles are my first love
From: United States
i am still awaiting DATA, DATA, DATA, Goulet!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
"the dogs bark the caravan moves on "......WUF WUF DATA DATA DATA.....Stokely
Written by: nosweat, 27 Jul 2008 9:37 AM
From: United States
i think dominican woman are the sexiest and most intelligent on the planet. the previous poster was right to tax it here in DR. My aunt made her living this way and helped to raise me. I am proud of her. However her back is sore and she dont walk straight no more.
From: United States
compared to whom, nosweat? what kind of statement is that? beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so i will let you slide with the " most beautiful" assessment. how do you calibrate the " most intelligent" aspect?
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A country like Brazil has over 300 million people, and Philipines with over 100 million people. Thailand has like over 40 million people, and we just have 9 million and that small amount of people brings about the fourth biggest group of international prostitutes??? INCREDIBLE!!!
And personally, I take the same view on prostitution that rom1804 does. Although I would strongly add...it should be legalized, taxed, and supervised and the women should be routinely tested for STDs. It's a shame that they have to go overseas when they could be providing that service in the D.R. and earning tax dollars for the economy.
But then again, we'd have yet another draw for illegal immigration from Haiti.
I hope when you are having such kind of therapy, thoughts of your own mother come to you.
Dominicans are ingenious and can survive anywhere in the world, yet prostitution is inhuman. If you get promises in exchange for prostitution please understand that it’s just to attract you and enslave you.
"La moral es la ciencia por excelencia; es el arte de vivir bien y ser dichoso. " Pascal Blaise
"No hagas de tu cuerpo la tumba de tu alma." Pitágoras
From: United States, New York City
My God!!! and you live in NYC. Dude one thing is to be open minded and another is to be cabaretero!
In the past, dominicans would take their sons to brothels to lose their virginity and learn to be a man?
Well, most of these men ended up married with a prostitute (what is called honoring a prostitute) etc.
The bottom line. Mr.Zimbabwe and yourself dont begin to know what the word "MAN" means.
and its not your sex that defines it, but your behavior.
continues
The problem: in DR people applaud corruption and embrasse criminal behavior as long as money is involved. These women will come back and now can have the house, car and bragging rights, which they could have never done before. No one will care that the money came from prostitution.
The same mentality that they have when it comes to drug dealers.
The easy money its applauded by those who refuse to do work.
Dominican Republic exports many natural products that american and europe purchase to name one "organic cacao"
A man is not one who will put his family/loved ones in danger (and you are by behavior).
a man is not one who feels that he is the man because he has made another woman his.
#Conquest does not equal manhood.
The majority of the female gender here want 2 maids a fancy car and go to the salon 3 times a week.
Thats the way it is, thats why they don't care what the guys look like.
But God Bless them! and he must have put them here for a reason.
One may think that human smuggling, force labor [slavery], and sexual exploitation is an industry ... on the Dominican side ... controlled by the lumben, the low class criminals. False. The lumpen are only hired help and security guards. This business of the slave trade is tightly controlled by the "human rights-loving" Dominican bourgeoisie, including some of the richest, oldest, and most pretigious families on the island.
Even the high Catholic experts on divine beings in the Dominican Republic are involved in the dirty business. Devout Nazarenes, males and females, are in great demand as prostitutes because they don't look so jaded and wasted.
Exploiting and EXPORTING prostitutes, males and females, ALL OVER THE WORLD expresses the ethics and economics of the free market under laissez faire.
The bourgeoisie is scum and anybody who fawns before the capitalist class is worth
After the whores, both males and females, are exhausted or no longer suitable for sex exploitation, they are sold as farm laborers, domestics, sweat shop toilers, or often put to sleep.
Most people who defend human smuggling and the slave trade do so because they know that their rotten bourgeois leaders are behind the trade and profit most from it. There is no circumstances in which these servile defenders will ever turn against their bourgeois leaders, their beloved bosses in morality and business.
This issue of prostitution, in my opinion, reflects the sad state of affairs that our country is currently in and that alot of other "Third World" or "Developing" countries are facing. Not only are we losing our people due to Immigration, but we are also "whoring" ourselves off as a country. Tourism is probably the biggest player in that sector. DR has a huge sex tourism industry. Furthermore, regular dominican people are essentially selling themselves off so that they can get an opportunity to come to the Developed world. I know plenty of people who have married Europeans, Gringos, other Dominicans to be able to come here. Isn't that the same as prostitution.Also the Government needs to regulate this industry and actually do something about it, especially when it comes to young girls/children.
I think we have to ask what kind of role we play in supporting this?
Only elements of the Dominican bourgeoisie and their foreign allies, especially elements of US bourgeoisie, should bear the blame, because they principally operate the business and profit from this horrifying trade which earns billions of dollars annually..
Most likely, over 95% of the Dominicans are appalled by human trafficking ... notwithstanding a discernable amount of sexist ideology, arrogance, and animus ... and would take or support steps to at least suppress most of it if they could find revolutionary leaders. But all that they can find is the bourgeois garbage, amoral reactionaries and timid liberals.
Why should the filthy elements of Dominican bourgeoisie be allowed to represent Dominican Republic when at least 95% of the Dominican people oppose their sinister business? So, it's unfair to blame the republic. Blame the wealthy and privileged scum that tarnish it.
When you think about prositution in DR, especially, it is not regulated, the women doing it, may not have as many choices as women in the U.S. I guess that theoretically, I am not opposed to a person choosing to have sex for money if they ar edoing that because they choose, not because they have to as their only means of survival.
There's an amazing book that I have called "Antología de la Literatura Puertorriqueña" where there is an account (not sure by who...possibly Fray Bartolomé de las Casas) of prostitution on both islands. Both islands were destined to become backwaters after the discovery of gold in Mexico and Peru. Both survived under the "situado" system...a form of welfare, if you will. A ship laden with supplies would call on both once a month with needed supplies and a ration of gold and silver. Waiting on the docks were not just women offering themselves, but young men as well.
This is also used as a starting point to trace what some historians and sociologists have considered the Puerto Rican dependence on a foreign power.
The great mafia boss of the Lower East Side. There's a club I go dance to every once in a blue called Lansky's in his honor. He was nobody's chief executive...ha ha ha! He was a bum!
Just a vagrant thought. I need some coffee before I meet with my next class!
From: United States
NYCDR, you assert that you will not allow people to say that prostitution is one of the major exports of the DR. i guess you intend to alter the statistics unilaterally.
NO.
50,000 Dominican women is not an entire/ majority of the population there or abroad!
Necessity I to travel abroad I understand. That their unconscious/conscious decision was made. We are not talking about cows here!
Its the moral and the immediate generalizations that I will simply not accept!!!
It creates prejudice!
How many millions of dominicans (including women) are abroad that are not prostitutes.
Please...
:)
:(
If exporting of prostitutes by the Dominican Republic is the biggest export industry you fail to notice that this is probably the biggest cottage industry within the country. if you don't agree suppose you can explain why they have roads filled with Cabanas in Santo Domingo and Santiago along with the rest of the country NOT EVEN VISITED BY foreigners?
This country is filled with prostitutes of every flavor and rotten crooked polititians and has been since the beginning of time. HOMEGROWN INDUSTRY except for Belial in Denial.
Sick twisted puppy that he is tries to blame everything on the US and of course the Cubans who couldn't stand that piece of crap Castro.
But could you please summarize?
Something like: you get a guitar, drums and accordion, wait a couple of decades and you get Merengue...wait a couple of decades more and you get Bachata.
I thought that communism was dead :(
If it were up to me, prostitution wouldn't exist. But since it does and has for centuries, it is best that the women who choose to engage in it enjoy legal and sanitary protection AND the right to direct their own line of work. That is the best way to get the pimps, who are usually men, out of the equation and put the power back where it belongs...the women who would otherwise end up exploited.
The Netherlands has successfully legalized prostitution and they don't have the astronomical rates of pregnancy, female abuse, and STDs that other countries that moralize and pontificate against it do.
______________________________________________
I agree.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3380
Efforts by the revolutionary government of Evo Morales to liberate the child slaves in Santa Cruz province of Bolivia have inflamed the Santa Cruz secessionist movement against Bolivia.
Naturally, the USAID, an agency of the US regime under Bush, is giving financial support to the Santa Cruz secessionists so that secessionists can hold on to their slaves.
The same thing is happening on some large sugar cane estates in the DR as the 2007 film "The Price of Sugar" attests, although Dominican slaveholders will exploit adults and children.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....-to-ride-toward-Dominican-history
What is our niche?
Merengue, baseball, and tegueraje.
I apologize for forgetting the inclusion of prostitution.
Is there a difference between the two operations? Which one is the DT dealing with in the article above?
It is true that both instances are cases of prostitution.
But is there a difference between vendor, a 67 year old widower, on the streetcorner proudly selling hogdogs out of his cart which he privately owns and the worldwide McDonald's chain of restaurants?
Are they identical because they both sell food?
And, returning to an old issue, are most of the hos in the DR (and many other places) males, not females, since prostitution is now more gay than straight?
Face it, most hos are guys.
A good-looking boy goes for about $15,000 a head.
This is not a mom-and-pop prostitution ring of streetwalkers.
This is the glorious bourgeoisie ... your God.
Yes, your God pimps and operates hos on a grand scale.
Remember, a pimp is just another kind of ho.
I want to make it clear I dont think Dread is a communist. I think Belial is....
First and foremost, you said what about puertorican women... Please. I am not stereotyping but lets remember a few years ago when in NYC the PR parade where women where sexually assaulted, it was not by Dominican men, it was by PR men...
We need to stop generalizing situations and saying that this only happens in our ethic group.
thats b.s. period.
This is just like the saying "cria fama y echate a dormir"
:(
Grabbing glutes? Dude when you refer to this I could imagine your acquaintances frequenting these places.
I have not seen this yet! anywhere i have gone.
I live in NYC most of my life. But I know better than to go to certain places that have certain crowds.
Whether you hold a college degree or not, women in general dont welcome grotest behavior from anybody, specially from men.
That is just plain stupid!
I, on the other hand understand that certain men and I will not much in common and just leave it at that.
Some people prefer wine, other beer etc. to each its own.
Honestly, a lot of men (not just dominicans) are condecending to women. Their excuse, "chilvary is dead...cause women killed it" "you want to control a man" "well you wanted equal rights" "we need to go 50/50" these are the words of slimmy little worms who deserve to be alone.
Dont take the behaviors and works of scum and make an entire population responsible...
remember you are stereotyping...
remember you are stereotyping...
So again your experience differs from mine. period
(dreadlocks, 25 Apr 2008 12:53 PM) last two sentences
The preponderance of Dominican men do act this way. However there is a minority subculture of Dominicans unbeknownst to many that frequent classy speakeasies and after hours clubs. I can tell you this, I have gone to these places and many couldn't believe I was Dominican. One common statements were "Oh you don't look Dominican". Making reference to my verbiage dialogue, attire and demeanor.
.....Years ago I would go to non Dominican clubs mainly because the environment was much more civil, organized and hospitable and incident free. I would meet women who refused to go to Dominican Clubs mainly because of the treatment, lack of respect, forwardness of Dominican Men and as many would state "the lack of class" or in typical terms "chusmeria". Hearing this time and time over again infuriated me to the point that I just gave up on the idea of trying to convince them.
From: United States
Again, your experience and mine differ.
Our women are not only exploited by the foreigners, but also by the dominican-yorks who think that they have an green light to use our women.
As far as could remember in the 50's there was the biggest DR prostitute male named Porfirio Rubirosa. He was not called a male prostitute but a" DR play boy"by all the international medea.
What makes him diferent from the average pimps?. Money .He married the richest women at that time worldwide,.He never worked in his life. His carreer as a pimp started when he married Rafael Leonidas Trujillo's eldest whore daughter,
There is a diference of being a "whore & a prostitute", A prostitute does it for money and whore does it for pleassure.
Story goes Trujillo's eldest daughter used to pick the most hansome guy for one night from the military and next day he was killed by her henchmen.
As you well know an airplane in those days cost lots of money and the ownner of the 5&10 stores woolworth married him and gave him an airplane costing US$2millions.He loved car racing so much that he even got killed in one of those in France, if am not mistaking, so did Ramfis RLT's son.
Well, I don't know what happened to him. If you go to livio.com Dominican cupid is the best example. A million dominican women posted and a million dominican gay men posted with pictures.If you read the logo they explain why dominican women don't care about being with older men. Its disturbing to say the least.
The latest trend college students or graduates (so called professionals or soon to be professionals) getting married and asking money from uneducated women here cause they are so in love, they found their match. Thats also prostitution. As soon as these so called professionals get what they want from them they disappear.
I hear the stories and feel sad for them.
I met homeattendants with doctors as husbands, factory workers with dentist or soon to be dentist janitors/maids and cab drivers with lawyers as husbands! all these women have told me the same :my husband is a great man and loves my fattiness, doesnt care i am not educated so far we are happy.
the husbands live in DR and wives live and work here. they all send money to the husbands.
That is PROSTITUTION!!!!
The problem: A major spread of VD among the population!
If not then check the US statistics (we can afford the stat studies) a major % of 14-19 teen girls in the US have chlamidia which makes the women steril, or have herpes.
Punishing not glorifying deviant behavior.
Your body is a sanctuary take care of it and protect it at all times.
Put God in your life not just on holidays.
Its hard to change someone who believes that by getting over other people or shaking them down is the way to live. cause they are slick and the others(victims) are not.
The lack of consideration, the lack of consciousness the lack of caring all goes back to I am slick and getting over you and you are my sucker.
Its a poor mentality with a combination of unwillingness to do hard work.
ex:I went to club one night and 2 guys come over and ask where me and a friend where from. I responded "dominicans" he then tapped his friend and said "these are the good one". Dude to shake these guys off was close to impossible.
When I came home I asked my mom why did this guys behave like this...she then told me and I laughed my head off.
Its all based on what people repeat whether is true or not.
Yes it is Education. But in a generational and cultural sense. Though many have vocational education there is a difference between vocational certificate and degree bound individuals. There is a transformation that occurs in higher academia and advanced degrees. The human being undergoes a mental metamorphous that transcends ethnicity and race.
This is where the line begins to curve. The tribulations, sacrifices and lessons learned are passed down to our children in-order to avoid some of our same pitfalls. It is when they pursue education, knowledge and a successful career that we can begin to close the loop and complete the circle. Dominican mentality is still linear, and unable to close the loop.
It is the future generations that will benefit most from the education of their fathers.
Dude, I don't about linear, I remember when I was college the majority of the hispanics were dominicans.
Education that is lacking is the one that is given in a home by parents. if that structure is right the rest falls into place easily....
You Stated: Education that is lacking is the one that is given in a home by parents.
A Men!
Yes I think I covered this when I said in my post:
27 Apr 2008 4:08 PM
""All this goes back to the simple fact. Lack of education..............""
27 Apr 2008 6:15 PM:
""Yes it is Education. But in a generational and cultural sense""
Why is it that so many Dominicans on the Island are corrupt. I'm sure their parents raised them with all the best intentions. But the overwhelming Societal forces changed them.
And please don't tell me that most Dominicans on the Island are not corrupt. Out of 100 Dominicans I'll be fortunate to select one that will pass the integrity test.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....rty-holds-massive-march-motorcade
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....hy-Dominican-Republic-doesnt-work
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....pt-corruption-as-their-day-to-day
This is what I would truly like to see a Underground movement and a WatchDog Organization with resources and muscle to bring to light and Justice the ill conceived practices of all corrupt individuals.
And yes you are correct about the race and Team player issue. This is a factor, but a greater factor is the fact that Dominican Government just doesn't market itself effectively. They have taken the economical route and left the marketing and promotional aspects to the Tigueres, Titeres, Merengueros, Illegals and the rest of the mooncalf's that have promoted such a degrading image of Dominicans. Again it shows the governments incompetence in qualifying its applicants.
I tried to do some motion to get something going there for the better of the dominican and hatian society.Needless to say everyone I spoke to tried to turn everything to be about them and their friend or relative who will hook it up which turned me off immediately.
In due time, God will find the way for it to be done.
I applaud your 3rd paragraph. Absolutely true.
Gouletcolonial, agree to disagree... :)
If I am Pro Choice, does it mean that I am full support of abortion? No! Some issues are not Black and White as many would like you to believe. Prostitution in DR is not all initially because of the glamour of the occupation, but because of the necessities and opportunities that it can provide women. I have known of women (and married) in the DR who have improved their lives from the opportunities of their career.
Now, is this a career that I would endorse or encourage? No, by no means. But sadly this what the government has left them with. Sadly this is what our government has sowed.
:(. but if it is. one question: what is the husband doing to earn a living? do you believe that a man loves a woman if he is willing to have men have sex with her? and please do not tell me that its different because its a job!!!
NYCDR: No definitely not, and don't misinterpret my statements. I am saying that though I don't agree with the social atmosphere and culture that has been created in Dom Rep all attributed to the incompetence of previous governments, which has resulted in women and men resorting to undesirable life styles or career options, I cannot condemn nor judge them.
Now I don't advocate prostitution but I cannot condemn it either. If this is the only viable option within their means. I don't have right to condemn anyone. I can only try to rationalize their reasons and empathize and if permitted give alternatives.
FYI there are men (of which I'm sure you are aware of) that have wives that do work in Bars as prostitutes in the DR. Just the same there are strippers the world over, including the U.S that are married and have also taken this route.
Lastly for that man who who's wife is a prostitute, every one has a way to rationalize and justify their actions. What do you say about a married actress who's role demands her to kiss and fondle and be fondled by another man? Or be nude in front of another man? Well, the answer may vary broadly.
Only I walk in my shoes, therefore no-one can hold judgement against me for my actions. But when my actions infringe on the rights and liberties of others, I will then be open for criticism and judgment.
Its all goes back to the same thing is a poor mentality. By that I mean you can give them a 100, 000 pesos and the poor will more than likely spend it on alcohol, showing off and be broke before the week is over. All of this without taking care of their living necessities. That my friend is poor mentality. When you take them out of their environment they are worst than a fish out of water.The real world becomes a nightmare. So the barrio is a heaven to them. :(
Its all predictable. But they all think they are unique and have so much to offer. Again, take them out of their world we are talking about frighten kittens.
Look the issue is not of wether they have intercourse or not. The issue is why these individuals have resorted to this life and how they are able to rationalize the decision they have made. Individuals have boundaries and these limitations may depend all on ones personal preferences and attitudes towards life in general. Where one individual under any circumstance or condition would not tolerate another man touching his wife, another would find it permissible depending on wether or not he feels it infringes on his values, his boundaries and self worth. Yes socio-economics in our country has much to do with it, but the final decisions is in the rationalization used.
What and Why am I doing this?
What will it accomplish?
Will I be better off 10-15 years from now?
How will this affect my life and those around me?
Who will benefit most from my actions?
Can I live with my decision.?
If you have 3 generations of pro do you believe they ask these questions of themselves?
Do you really believe they live in peace?
People are not robots. People are human and though have different needs they do think about the consequences of their decisions. I do believe some of their decisions are programmed from generations however, most initial decisions are not programmed. It is a human process that takes and measures risk and benefits. It is after reoccurrence or experiencing the same conditions that perhaps we draw from preprogrammed decisions. So as poor as they may be, they do ask themselves these questions just as the rich would also do....
If your issue is the immorality of prostitution, then as Dreads stated in his post 30 Apr 2008 12:28 PM What is the difference? What's the difference if I have a close friend with benefits? Does this mean that we are both (my friend and I) immoral? Heathens to burn at the stake!
Before you jump into the conclusion of bitter black b@#$ I am of the lighter tone. The JLO tone of skin (NO BS). I don t have that kind of a problem. I just observe the repetitive nonsense and grin at how vain people could be... :)
MY short sight hahahaha!!! you said it again that the majority of people there are vain. The color of the skin may mean a lot to people there (and here)if it doesnt include you, then good for you!!!
I am not impressed by your achievements (sorry :( ) good for you.
Its good to know that I am not alone.
2008.