This is only the beginning. I can't wait for the high-speed commuter rail from SD to Santiago!

did i read this right? private investors being solicited to participate in a subway extension venture, when the first wheels have not yet turned for the purpose of making money? maybe i am out of touch with reality, but will someone with superior knowledge please show me a few examples of subway systems which operate at a profit and do not need massive subsidies to keep operating. no monorail examples, please, and no light rail. just heavy rail/subways.

dreadlocks

You took the words right out of my keyboard. These are great questions!

Are they realising it will not be profitable and are preparing an escape hatch, i.e. "well if its not making money its the private partners fault' or is this a hybrid of a more sophisticated little future payroll scheme.

I bet their will be a lot of PLDers in those "private partnerships!"

Josean, why does this seem to be some sort of scam in the making? which private investor in his right mind invests in subway systems like this? the trend to privatisation of subways is a new thought, but , rather than invest in a subway, i would rather take my money to a casino!

Maybe Lie-onel Fernadez and his PLD before they build the final leg of the METRO, which is rumored to under "El Canal de La Mona" to Puerto Rico might want to help this desperate community get a supply of drinking water:

http://www.listin.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=54022

maybe, jut maybe, Josean, that constituency is not a PLD stronghold in the electoral scheme of things. why waste public funds on a bunch of subversives ? since they prefer the other party, let them petition their functionaries for water. why should the PLD take care of the needs of a bunch of PRD malcontents, i ask you?

We see in the future when the train stars running full capacity who will make negative comments about it....................................We are going forwards

actually, Rubirosa, if the trains defy analysis and run full capacity, making wheelbarrow loads of money, nobody will make negative comments, except maybe those who do not like the color of the seats, or some minor annoyance like that!

First of alI let me say that I think the metro system is a good idea, I don’t think they should be priority one, but they should have some railway system in DR. I think that It will make a profit over time; it’s like any investment, when you invest it always take some time (long time) before you start making profit. The subways in NYC are over 100 years old (some), and I know that it took them a very long time in order to pay themselves.
Everyone always complains when Leonel makes something like el tunel de la 27, o los elevados, o el puente y el tunel de las Americas, but if leonel hadn’t build those things just try to think back and think of how was the city of Santo Domingo before all of that.
Or do people foget that it was leonel who started out those projects?

they are seeking private investors......like people in hell are seeking ice water and cold beers......but they wont get any.....unless they turn it over to the thug unions.....this idea is strange......... transit systems are usually the only things government can do to any degree of success

jmzlp12 wrote

"The subways in NYC are over 100 years old (some), and I know that it took them a very long time in order to pay themselves."

You are entitled to your own opinion not your own facts!

Here are some facts:

"Here’s why the numbers will never add up. The MTA will rake in $3.5 billion in mass-transit fares this year, plus $1.1 billion from its bridge-and-tunnel tolls. That $4.6 billion covers less than half the agency’s $9.4 billion in expenses. Correspondingly, the $2.8 billion in fares that 1.4 billion subway riders will pay this year is barely half of what it costs to run the trains. So dedicated taxes must provide a $2 billion dump into the MTA’s coffers each year. State and city subsidies add another $600 million, along with the bridge-and-tunnel profits. And it’s still not enough."

Source:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_2_subways.html

jmzlp: where in God's green earth did you hear that the nyc subways are"paying themselves'? heck, last year they had to inject 2.2 billion dollars of taxpayer revenues to keep it solvent. that goes for just about all subway systems in the usa. the things all bleed money. with very few exceptions, the only rail systems in cities that make money are monorails such as those in japan.

OK maybe I was mistaken by saying that the MTA pays its self, but you have to keep in mind how big is the MTA’s system compared to that of DR. and even if it doesn’t pay itself, isn’t the job of the government to provide citizens with a better way of life? Transportation around the city of Santo Domingo is terrible, so why not tax the people in the city a little + and provide a good transportation system. I know that everyone is going to say “what are you crazy more taxes” but the truth is that what makes the U.S. so great is that people pay their taxes and the GOV actually works for them. I know that in DR the government doesn’t really work, but then again people don’t really pay taxes.
Another thing, think if there were no MTA system in NYC. It wouldn’t be the great city that it is. There would be so many more cars consuming more oil, and polluting the environment much more. The tax and subsidy that the city provides to the MTA would all go to oil.

I think we all have to look at the big picture.

O and josean thanks for the INFO very interesting.

jmzlp: the size of the system has nothing to do with profitablity. the equation is simple, whether big or small : revenue minus expendure equals gross profit or gross losses. it applies across the board. the fact that the DR metro is small acts against it, because of the economies of scale. in a smaller system, each car-mile is more expensive than a larger one, all things being equal.

dred you got a bullet proof argument on this one.....subways dont make a profit

jmzlp12

You are quite welcome, I am sure.

The issue with the METRO goes way beyond profitability, what is more paramount is social priority and utility.

In a country where children are going to school on average 2.5 hours per day and even then the quality of those hours of instruction are meager are best, no one can truthfully and seriously state this METRO was a priority.

Whether Lie-onel Fernandez wins with a majority of 100% or not, this still does not proof he was right in building this "personal project" at the expense of grossly neglecting all the other social priorities of the entire country.

Josean, here is my take on this subject. as you noted, projects such as this are not undertaken to realise a profit. they are public projects with social overtones. this is not like a man putting up a factory to make wheelbarrows, and the only consideration is profit or loss. a cost-benefit study has to be undertaken to establish the virtual intangibles; the benefit or costs to society. these are strenuous studies, which take a long time to complete. the mad rush in which this project was implemented suggests that such a study could not have been diligently accomplished, if at all. secondly, with every nation on earth being confronted by the reality of scarce resources, a responsible government owes it to the citizenry to ration those resources in the most needy of areas: in our case, the improvement of education. bragging rights do not serve any useful purpose. when a dominican migrates to a first world country and applies for a job, no employer cares whether or not he is a citizen

of a country with a subway. that does not impress anyone. what impresses the prospective employer is the applicant's ability to perform the task at hand! educated people usually make more impressive applicants.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!! Dred!!! You hit the bulls-eye!!!

Oh, I hope our friends from PETA are not offended by my figure of speech.

Our people do so well when given the opportunity of education.

If I had a dime for every time I have heard this comment from US educators I have spoken to over the years: "Josean the newly arrived immigrant Dominican children in my class are like sponges, absorbing every bit of knowledge I can give them" I would be rich.

It pains me to see so many beautiful black, brown and white innocent faces when I travel back home with the look of ambition and a thirst for knowledge.

This is tantamount to institutional criminal negligence to allow these beautiful minds to wither in the wilderness of ignorance. Imagine how many Juan Boschs or Maria Teresas will never have the opportunity to develop into productive citizens of the republic, because our priorities are dictated by narrow political interests.

Continued:

Honestly when I see these beautiful diamonds in the rough I think " There but for the grace of God go I!"

sadly, Leonel did not merely want to be a good president and serve the country to the best of his ability. he wanted to be remembered among the pantheon of great world leaders of history. he wants to upstage all the greats, and be the Julius Caesar of the caribbean.. things like the metro are jewels in his crown. regretfully, succeeding generations will be called upon to finance this ego trip.

Hi dreadlocks, I do agree with what you say, even though you might not think so. Very interesting discussion =)

I guess it has proved too expensive and stupid. Now they feel they need to con private business into finishing a job that shouldn't have been started to begin with. What a mess, no way in hell is there going to be enough money to finish this project with these bums skimming so much money off of it.

Dreadlocks, very nice very nice..I agree with you 110% but let's talk about the psyche of the popular folks. It was obvious this was going to be a burden and something out of reach at this moment but the people have a metro..es lo que cuenta "that's what counts"..everything else is secondary. I just can't believe they have the audacity to even come up with this proposition. I guess they are looking for a few divestors who dont mind. I am a fan of L.F. and I want him to accomplish his project. I hope some crazy investors take the bait..I would love to see the propoistion to entice prospects. BTW, great post monsieur...

Escott

Well said!

Pardon the pun but the "wheels are starting to come off" this carnival wagon called the METRO. If it wasn't because the misuse of so much money now and into the future hurts so many innocent children, it would be laughable.

I am sure that behind Lie-onel Fernnadez's back the heads of states whom he interacts with must be ridiculing him for this flamboyant folly.

Its the equivalent of building an ocean-liner in the desert.

imagine" Fitzcarraldo "josean he got the job done

well, Escott, you are a successful investor, and i am sure that people with your business acumen are not generally known for making obviously dumb investments. he will have to con some nitwits into investing in a train! sensible businessmen do some research before they put up their money, and the data on subway revenues is all over the internet. Good luck, Leo. and thanks for your kind words Jabao.

an aside Josean. you say that the wheels are beginning to come off: sadly, that is one of the main problems with heavy rail such as subways. the grinding action between the wheels and the rails deteriorates the wheels in short order, and they have to be constantly checked for condition, or they will fall off and result in the type of derailments which killed 47 people in the town of valencia.

I thought ours had rubber wheels like montreal and washington

maybe they do, actually. if so, i stand corrected. the wheels are still a cause for great concern, and the major cause of derailments.

Construction of line 2 to start in 2008, it seems. I'm glad LF isn't listening to all the negative people out there. Go ahead, actually, think bigger!

i agree with you, Trujillo. i believe he should think bigger. i suggest a space shuttle next.what the heck does "thinking big" have to do with anything? want to think big? how about improving education? this post sounds like it is coming from the bragging rights segment of the community, who believe people will be impressed with the country because it has a subway. what fuels the thoughts of some amongst us?

belial has volunteered to be our first astronaut .....he will be going to the sun....... I told him not to worry he was going at night

exactly, Goulet. does it not bother the bragging rights contingent to know that the per capita income of haitian immigrants to the usa is higher than that of their dominican counterparts? with the economic trials and tribulations of haiti, and the general maiaise in that nation, how is it that they can prepare people for functional operation within a cosmpolitan economy better than we can? and they have no metro, to boot!!

I will pay for Lie-onel Fernandez's DNA test:

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080404/full/news.2008.738.html

very interesting article, Josean. maybe it is not his fault, after all.

haitans have to work even harder than dominicans everywhere it seams

A Plague on all your Houses:


http://www3.diariolibre.com/noticias_det.php?id=11366

Though I don't agree with the idea of the METRO many people don't understand some possible reasons for the metro that may not be outright obvious. Businessmen from various sectors who approve and disapprove of the Metro have one belief in common, which is the excessive abuse of power of the Transport Unions. The birth the Metro did not necessarily stem from the grandiose vision of forging a legacy but it was stimulated by the crippling effects of the Transportation Unions power, and their abuse of power. Power, which has the potential to cripple the economy by paralyzing Intl and domestic commerce

........And yes no mass transit system operates at a profit, but the idea was not necessarily to produce a profit but rather to reduce some of the power of the transport unions and it's burden on Govt. and society. Not every political policy has an explicit purpose. No one party governs in entirety. Politics involve compromises that result in discontent among different sectors of society and many times it is the poorest, misinformed, ill-informed and ignorant sectors of society that are least able visualize and understand and digest the big picture.

josean:
Very good article on NY SUBWAY SYSTEM.
The author forgot to include the subway miles of IND which brings it all up to 850 instead of 730, after construction in 1935. That alone cost more than the IRT+BMT put together.Due to diferent times built at a quadruple the cost of under ground work(tunneling).
Nevertheless my point was made when I said it is a 20/80 proposition 20% cost per ridership and
the other 80% was absorved by the State,City,Fed under the transportation act + loans & bonds

Did you know the BMT originaly was made up of 15 private co,As well as owening their own private electrict plant, Kent p.p.for the BMT and 59th st & 72nd st for the IRT? IND was fed by EDISON when it was generating in NYC. Now they all fall under a common grid, fed from LILCO and PSE&G. EDISON only distributes same.
The MTA/NYCTA has been on the red since it was built that was the main reason it was picked up by the gvt and all the pp were held by EDISON & old cables sold to the TA.

Ladronazo, that is an interseting spin on the metro debacle. however, if that was a part of the equation, i would believe that the consideration should have been focused on a rail system which could move freight instead. it is the truckers more than anyone else who bully the state. the carritos are the operators who will feel the effects of the metro, and i do not see where they weild a crippling effect over the city.

the carritos are a corrupt sindicato as well....lets get rid of them also

It is to my understanding the Transport Unions are very much involved in everything that is Transportation. In addition they have much influence and have their hands in many other sectors of the Dominican Economy. Just like the Mafia in the U.S in the 20 the century. They have the power to impact the rates on fares for all modes of Transport. i.e. Trucking, Carritos/conchos and perhaps the motoconchos.

..... as far as the motoconcho, I was being facetious.

gouletcolonial, 6 Apr 2008 4:50 PM stated ""the carritos are a corrupt sindicato as well....lets get rid of them also ""

In the DR, WHO isn't corrupt?

If not by conviction, by necessity!

i am in agreement with you, Ladronazo, that the transport boys are a mafia like contingent. however, breaking their backs is not a short term issue. the government could cripple them more easily by choking their stranglehold on the movement of merchandise. passenger transportation is not a good target for monopolists and cartels, because so many individuals have cars. trucks, and buses, on the other hand, are owned by very few people, and those few can disrupt movement and commerce. the hoodlums can call a trucker's strike, or a bus owner's strike, with some dislocations to society. but the truck strike is more critical, since people can find effective alternatives to get to work. on the other hand, they cannot find one for getting 50 tons of cement from los alcarrizo to luperon!

Boricuas in NASA

While we keep falling behind in world competitive educational outcomes, look at what our Puerto Rican brothers and sisters are achieving in their own local engineering school:

http://www.elnuevodia.com/diario/....nvasion_boricua_en_la_nasa/388005

Dreadlocks, I am going to research the details on the transport unions as the finite details of my conversation with these business individuals has faded in memory, thus, I cannot provide a concrete or substantive argument.

And as far as josean, post: 6 Apr 2008 6:06 PM:.

Now this is bad comparison, i.e. PR to DR. As PR has tremendous US economic support. Puerto Ricans are able to travel freely and thus have access to U.S. services and opportunities in education, health, employment, etc.

I think if Dominicans would redirect some of their corrupt ingenuity to other areas they could possibly see some positive results.

Josean, i am happy you brought that article regarding genetics to my attention. in light of some things i witness, i begin to understand that some behaviors are outside the control of some people, and they are being guided by forces they cannot conquer. case in point:the "little payrolls "scandal. one would have thought that when that news became public knowledge, the miscreants responsible would have gone into retreat mode, even looking to cover their tracks. but no; the general secretary of the PLD has submitted a brief with the Supreme Court of the land, asserting that the JCE acted outside the proper purview of their powers in stopping the payrolls.they contend that it is an infringement of the powers of the executive branch, and, de jure, demand the reinstatement of the scheme. such actions go beyond mere contempt of the society. it is more than brass balls. it speaks to a human disorder, wherein one cannot distinguish right from wrong. when an act like this is committed

which causes all of civilised society to furrow their eyebrows, and the authors of the scheme find it not only acceptible, but worthy of robust defence, one has to attribute that to some sort of mental malformation.

ladronazo

I was not comparing DR to PR, I was just thinking along these lines:

"I think if Dominicans would redirect some of their corrupt ingenuity to other areas they could possibly see some positive results."

And precisely because we do not have the "advantages" PR has, is the reason we have to be more judicious with our limited resources and invest these resources in what will give us more bang for our Peso!

I am sure that you would agree that there is no more beneficial and cost effective investment for a society than investing in the education of its people.

That is of course unless you want to keep them ignorant and indoctrinate them in the cult of personality ala Chairman Mao, so you can invest their national treasury in a fiasco like the METRO.

Professor dreadlocks,

The precise logic of your arguments and their clear presentation are only overshadowed by what I understand to be their sincerity.

Thank you for posting them and enlightening this humble peasant!

A PLDer that tells it like it is:

Derd you will love the last part of his statement in the last sentence no less!

http://www.listin.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=54179

hi Josean; professor is a little extreme for me, but, i'll take it. thank you very much for the link. one of the components of your postings is the sincerity of your emotion, and i like that. you also understand reality, as opposed to the cheerleaders, who fly into fits of glee with every headline. most of these people do not understand the difference between our potential and our performance. we have far more natural resources than a country such as singapore, but they manage to sweep up the floor with us because we are too busy patting ourselves on the back for having silly ventures like a metro. anyone who posts in any forum, not only this one, who does not understand that in the year 2008 the most important requisite for a society is education, should have their laptop confiscated. this is not 1958: the production bases have shifted. 50 years ago, caribbean nationals were going to the usa in droves to get jobs based on manual skills: they all worked in factories, and some even

ended up making decent livings as gas station attendants. those occupations are over: automobile manufacture is all heading to the east, and gas stations are automated. the wave of the future is in science and technology. we want investment, so we have to show outside entrepreneurs that we can provide them with a workforce which can perform. what is the point of setting up a factory to assemble automobiles when the majority of applicants cannot read the design plans? 4.8 years of schooling will not get the job done, at least not in today's world.50 years ago, maybe: not today!

singapore and the other Tigers swept the floor with everyone in latin america forget the caribbean

Ladronazo, i notice where you attribute the success of puerto ricans in the sphere of education to their juxtaposition with the usa. to what do you attribute the success of a country such as barbados, i tiny little rock of 166 square miles? or singapore? and let's not forget everybody's whipping boy, cuba? it is called Governmental Priorities. they want to build a base and foundation for future , sustainable development. our government wants to build projects to show the world how advanced we are. if you are really advanced, the world will find out without you building megaprojects. we are into too much show, and too little substance: mucha espuma, poco chocolate.

Josean, i read where certain eastern caribbean countries are suggesting that they would like to see all schoolteachers computer literate by 2013. they intend to spend billions of dollars in dedicated e-Learning initiatives. do not be surprised if they sweep up the floor with us soon, even though we can fight back with the METRO.!

dred I am sorry to tell you that the DR is far advanced than eastern caribbean.....I tell people who complain about here that this is like Switzerland compared to down island....they got nothing but sand and sun,tourism period education is going nowhere unless its for the hospitality industry

are you suggesting that the DR is like switzerland compared to Trinidad? are you saying that the educational qualities of the DR far outstrip those of Barbados? i will concede any advantages that the dr has over another country or region, but i will debate education any day. there are small pockets of private shool kids in the DR who receive a good education. but the big picture is that this country lags behind the english speaking ex=colonies by a long mile.

Why a private investment in the Metro might actually be profitable:
1) Construction and operation of line 1 are way over budget for lack of planning, lack of experience, lack of capacity, and lack of control over funds.
2) All Metro systems are subsidized.

1 + 2 = private company wins 20 year concession for construction, management, & operations for cheaper than estimated costs of line 2

When people hear about private companies running transit systems profitably that's how it works.

Look for the private company to be one of those typical "UAE" or "Chinese" companies made up of a bunch of Dominicans. This is a good way for public servants to continue to steal from the state even after they have left office.

i hardly think any private firm is going to invest in a public work such as the metro with a 20 year concession .if done properly, it will take the better part of 15 years to complete the metro as envisioned. that allows for 5 years to recoup investment. that does not add up. even if the 20 years is allowed to start at the completion of the physical plant and equipment, 20 years is still a short span.

the economy of scale....Barbados and the bahian people retain a veneer of english education that they are proud of ....but it is a veneer....Trinadad has buckets of oil money and they culturally cant get past calypso.....sheer population says we will have more people with better educations....... and our elites who can be educated anywhere ....that is nothing to be proud of but God forbid we should look to these pissant islands for good example that would be a mistake....cuba or Puerto Rico yes

enlighten me ,if you will, Goulet, regarding the Barbados veneer of education. are you saying that their education system is smoke and mirrors? are you saying that we are ahead of them here? it is common knowledge that caribbean migrants to the usa of school age are far more educationally advanced than those from the DR/. i am aware of the language barrier, but my information is that children from south and central america are also far ahead! we can give credit where it is due, but education here is the pits. we ranked 129 out of 131 countries in several categories in the last UNESCO survey. that is not good by any standard.

Goulet, can you define for my edification the components of a "calypso mentality"? is it similar to, say, "bachata mentality"? or "merengue mentality"?

could be.....

our education system is nothing to brag about ,that is true.......but dont look down island for direction

here is my point regarding education, Goulet. there are dominicans who are just as educated as the best of the best. i am talking in generalities. on a general levels, we lag behind the eastern caribbean, and there is no doubt about that. if you need to investigate this, take a random collection of telephone numbers and names from passersby on the street. call me back when you have done so, and let me know how many of them you can read! do you know how many people i have met here who do not know who fidel castro is, or where puerto rico is in relation to the DR? if that does not give you cause for concern, you need to visit your physician: you night just have passed away!

dred you can find that kind of thing in canada or america.....yes there is a lot of room for improvement ...I do not want to sound anti down islander but our future looks brighter than theirs.....unless they all strike oil or diamonds or gold

i am aware that we have far more potential than the small territories of the caribbean. however, the statistics show an annual per capita productivity growth index of 3.6% for barbados, and 3.1 for trinidad. we lag behind at 1.5%.a high performance economy cannot succeed on low octane education. in 1961, taiwan, singapore, south korea and hong kong formed the asian productivity organisation. the four cornerstones of the project were 1)creativity 2) innovation 3) efficiency and 4) effective work performance. all these were underpinned by education. as a result, the productivity increase in east asia is 8.5%; ours is 1.5% and do not forget that those down islands have staggering indices. gni per capita in Antigua is 13,210 dollars, and puts them in the high income category worldwide. st kitts is 11,510. trinida and tobago is 16,260, which is higher than saudi arabia. (so is puerto rico, at over 14,000). the DR IS 2850, ,which puts us in the low income category.

dred I cannot diminish the value of education........ I concede........without a good education program the government is robbing the population.....let us see what Lionel has in store for us .He is after all a teacher by profession dont give up hope

Goulet, how can i give up hope? this is the central focus of all i post! if i give up hope on education becoming a focal point, i might as well give up hope on the DR. i have no intention of doing that any time soon.

First of all to answer josean, post 6 Apr 2008 10:44 PM:

I want to clarify to anyone and all that may have a doubt. I hold no allegiance to any political party either in the U.S. or Dom Rep. Second that my biggest argument for the deprivation of progress and social advancement in the DR is EDUCATION lack thereof. As I have stated in many of my previous posts on this site, there is no one critical factor that precludes our people from greater success than the lack of education. I consider myself a realist not an idealist. In that sense I like to consider all the facts, and explore those known and unknown variables that have a direct or “indirect” consequence on the decisions and outcomes....

(continued)
Therefore, having said my comments regarding PR are based on a pure reality. The U.S. subsidies, and influence in all its institutions and governmental entitie provides, and has provided a major advantage to the island since becoming a U.S. protectorate. This advantage has allowed PR. to concentrate its resources in other areas (prioritize). Now, it is also a fact that due to this lack of education in Dom Rep, I don’t believe Dominicans on the Island having an economic edge on PR, would know how to use it. Corruption, incompetence, political nepotism, and lack of professionalism (attributed to lack of education) is abundant in most, if not all of Dominican Institutions.....

(continued)
Therefore, I do agree with Dreadlocks in his statement about “prioritizing”. But considering Barbados who’s major social influence has derived from the English and not the Spaniards and who’s English Immigrants arrived to the Island with a different ideology and principles, and who still have great influence in all matters of the Island is not a fair comparison.

you might very well be correct about the historical traditions, Ladronazo.the british set up high class educational institutions in their colonies many centuries ago. Alexander Hamilton, the man who had a profound impact on the political fortunes of George Washington, was born on the tiny island of Nevis, but was a lecturer at Columbia university. as far back as 1720, a jewish gentleman of jamaican birth was lecturing in Hebrew at Harvard. there are several very old , first class educational institutions in the english caribbean, many of which have their roots in the protestant churches.

hamilton was born on Nevis but raised on St Croix Danish west indies

the man who designed the Capitol dome in DC was born on Jost Van Dyke......and Camille Pissaro the great painter was born in St Thomas

if i am not mistaken, jost von dyke is dutch . i always thought st croix was part of the american virgin islands. i stand corrected.

Jost is part of BVI St Croix was under 7 flags but predominantly Danish for almost 200 years

american virgins aquired from Denmark in 1917 they finally decided between Samana and USVI

For all the Haitians in this website:

Keep Your crazy and non sense opinions for Haiti, make a country over there not on our country,
Dominicans are feed up with the stupid international agenda against us.

What Haiti has to offer to this planet other than vodoo, diseases and illegal inmigration.

Ok, I don't know if any of you have been to Santo Domingo lately but their are buildings being built EVERYWHERE, so he is preparing for the future, something that none of the other presidents ever do therefore no progress is made. And i too understand the poverty in DR I have many relatives living very poor and nephews who don't have chairs to sit in class, But if we want substantial money to keep coming in we need to have the Capitol City where MOST of the money comes in and the investors come to visit prepared for rapid growth. Their is a reason why

unemployment is down and investments are up, THIS IS THE FIRST MAN TO STEP IN AND KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING WITH THIS COUNTRY. Ok seriously, every president that my stupid country votes in their usually brings the country down and Leonel brings it back up, how many times is this going to happen? You expect this guy to fix the power issue and poverty issue in 4 years? And in case you guys didn't know he has been changing the power circuits for

many parts of the country, and they only loose power because they don't pay the freaking bills and use it up on alcohol, and it would be worse if it wasn't for the genius curfew he put in place (the same curfew they have in US cities by the way)In Jarabacoa they don't loose power,because over 85% of the residents pay their bills, look it up....and guess what, he had the country at a 6% growth rate back in the first term he was in power, then we did the stupidity of taking him out. And again the country is at a growth, What are you guys expecting a Bill Clinton to come run the country? well wait for it sitting down because if you stand you'll get tired, this is the best president this country has ever seen. I'm tired of people voting for other parties so "your party wins" this is NOT a game of Licey v.s. Aguilas, this is the future of this country.

Their is a reason why they made him leader of the 20th Rio Group Summit. This is an intelligent man, stop trying to tell him how to run the country, he knows why he builds a subway, he's not stupid. This is not the type of guy who spends $700+ million dollars to then say "0ops!" my mistake. And if you complain that he's government is stealing money, well guess what....THAT"S NEVER GOING TO STOP NO MATTER WHO IS IN POWER, they still money in virtually EVERY government in the world, the US, EURO, JAPAN....Everywhere, so deal with it, it wont stop!!!! Every time he is power people criticize the projects he does, once they are over (like the bridge over the capitol, or the intersections being built as "over-under") It makes our lives easier,

and it brings ease to investors to come in and feel comfortable investing in a modern country, so once we have a LARGE STEADY FLOW, then we can re construct all the public schools...etc.. Which by the why I used to go to the one in my home pueblo "Bonao" and I know is harsh, but we must be patient.

Thanks Christospherein, I'm tired of these bozos myself.

actually, christopherein, any president of a country with limited resources such as this, who sees spending a billion dollars on a subway as a priority, should look back and say "oops".the debate has gone beyond whether the subway will fulfil expectations: that is to be seen. however, as we have noted a gazillion times on this forum, priorities are more important than accomplishments. i would have been Leonel's biggest supporter if he had addressed the woeful state of education before anything else. no country, i repeat, no country, can be competitive in the 21st century with a 51:1 student /teacher ratio, and an average of 4.8 years of schooling. this is a global world today, and competition is everything. having a subway does not attract the kind of enterprises we need for sustainable development models. take a look at the strategies of the Asian Tigers and see how it is done: education first and foremost. i am sick of talking to guys who closed down factories in zona francas

because the available workforce was below par. the problem we have here is that most people have no frames of reference: they see things in absolute terms. they know how we do things, but have no idea what others are doing. we might have an individual productivity per annum of 10,000usd, and people think that is a great achievement because they do not know that the same figure in the united states is 54,000!!

I agree, education is a priority. But he is not sitting down with his arms crossed. He has opened about 3 or 4 new universities around the country, so that students don't have to leave their home pueblo to study. Such as the brand new University in Nagua or the Brand new University in Bonao. These places create jobs and education, and prepare new students to become come teachers. Like I said, it takes a wile and we must be patient.

Lets go METRO!!! The "owners of the country" must be "pea green with envy" as well as the opposing parties leaders. LEONEL for PRESIDENT for the next 50 years!!!!

christospherein: You are righ, LF is not stupid but you are wrong that he is not sitting with his arms crossed. Actually, that's exactly what he is doing and he is smart enough to know that is all he has to do to remain in power and allow Bengoa, Montas, Batista, Garcia, and Peña rob as much as they can. He could not care less about any other executive or secretariate as long as his five are free to "recaudar" what they can.

It is not LF and what he has done that makes the country's economy grow. It grows in spite of him. It was growing with Mejia also; until he got in a ego pissing match with Ramoncito & promised to guarantee deposits 100%.

You want evidence that LF is not running this economy? You will see it Q3 & Q4 of 2008 and all of 2009 when the economy is going to suck bigtime! It is not LF that has brought economic success to this country. He and his cronies are just doing nothing & quetily skimming off the top.

Remember also who were the architects of the Baninter bullshit; it was Bengoa that was the architect of the purchase of the defunct Bancredito by Baninter (even though Baniter had nothing to buy it with at the time)& then it was LF that held that favor over the head of Baninter to write himself and his people blank checks that built Fundglode and his party.

All Mejia did was ask for quid pro quo when he was President and then not believe Baez when he said "there's no more!"....Oooops. Dumb twit! Before he was President however he already had money.

Before LF was President he could be (and was) found pushing his VW beetle up Conde in his flip flops for gas and banging his secretary on his desk.

Like I said in my previous comments (read above to the long comments I left) I do accept the corruption in this government, But right now he is the best we got. So unless someone leaving comments here can run the country better...then ggo run against him.....If you are trustworthy ..heck, i'd vote for you. Maybe Vargas is not so bad of a president, but his party is one thousand times more crocked then the PLD office. And think about it, ok those guys are getting richer, but atleast we see the money going somewhere....yes ok, 700 million is a shit load of money....BUT AT LEAST WE SEE WHERE IS GOING. Not like every other president that gets rich (just like Leonel) but then we all stay like......"Where all the money go?" And let me tell you something, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO TOLD ANYBODY THE COUNTRY WAS AT A GROWTH DURING MEJIA. Do you not understand that the country owed so much money it was in danger of collapse, To put it ti you in simple words, if their was a "chapter 11" for countries..

cont'd.......

DR would have had to file for it....haha. This man left the presidency the last time with the Dollar worth a decent 14 pesos...and came back to 60 pesos per dollar.......wtf? Dont tell me the country was growing, that guy had every posible investor taking their chances investing in Haiti (sarcasticly speakingg) but you gt my point. When I went ther during his govenmernt, The capitol city was frozen, I saw maybe 1 or 2 building contrustions...very slow progress...Now go take a look at it. Did any of you know Wal-MArt did a silent buy of La Sirena for $800 Million dollars? thats more then the train cost. But they invested because they trust the dominican estability, PRD or any other government comes in power and off go the investors again. So I guy runs an entire country at a progress rate....and he cant be rich...You know what? He needs to take some money and relax, he earned it. Again people, nobody comes in and makes DR look like Florida in 4 years....IMPOSSIBLE!

Check; I never said the PRD was better.

All I said was LF is no hero.

By the way; Metro = US$2 billion (US$300+ million just this fiscal year alone)
Wal Mart's purchase of a portion of Grupo Ramos was not so silent but since you only mention that I guess you don't now about K-Mart, Sears, Home Depot, & Staples.

Again... don't misinterpret that I am promoting PRD but just going back to the point that LF's great "genius" to to not DO anything.

GDP growth
2000 = 5.7%
2001 = 1.8%
2002 = 5.8%
2003 = (0.3%)
2004 = 1.3%
2005 = 9.3%
2006 = 10.7%
2007 = 8.5% (official stats)

So, what does this prove. LF's people are better at bullshitting with statistics (but I think that was no surprise to anyone)

Consumer price index (CPI):
From June 2000 to June 2003 rose 48 points (in 1999 dollars)
From June 2004 to June 2007 rose 39 points (again, in 1999 dollars)

(Check all www.bancentral.gov.do)

Unemployment rate:
2000 13.9%
2001 15.6%
2002 16.1%
2003 17.0%
2004 18.4%
2005 17.9%
2006 16.2%
2007 15.6%

Rate of economic participation:
2000 47.6%
2001 45.8%
2002 46.2%
2003 45.4%
2004 46.0%
2005 45.9%
2006 46.9%
2007 47.4%

Foreign Direct Investment Inflows:
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
953 1080 917 613 909 1123 1459 1698 (in US$millions)

Ok, PRD sucks the big one. Mejia is an utter bozo; agreed. So look at the numbers. Even Mejia was able to post decent positives so what is LF's excuse?!?

Basically what I am trying to say is that I think it is insulting to the hard work and perseverance of the Dominican people and private sector for you to praise the PLD as being the harbinger of progress to this country. The DR is progressing IN SPITE of the PLD, PRD, and PRSC. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that if LF and his people would just stop sticking their nose in stuff and just do their job as the law and their job description says without trying to "spin" everything in their own individual personal favor the country could have posted some real numbers.

Anyone on this post could run the country better. How:
Step 1 Invite your Mom and all your friends the the swearing in ceremony.
Step 2 Raise your right hand and whatever that guy at the podium says say "I do"
Step 3 Get on a plane and tend your bodega in the Bronx
Step 4 Come back in 4 years.
Step 5 Repeat.

Notice the unemployment rate goes up until Leonel's intrusion to the government...right away it goes back down....or did you not notice your own numbers?

And I have seen these numbers from the CIA fact book, thats what I was talking about!!!!

Again look at the growth rate 5% is not a good growth rate.....
.......you know what is?
2005 = 9.3%
2006 = 10.7%
2007 = 8.5% (official stats)

Their is a big difference between negative .3 to 8.5 up!!!!!

a quarter of a million more people where unemployed during Hipolito.

I know LF is not god.....But I'm trying to tell you he does a better job then the others....

Or to make you happy......

He's "less stupid" then the other idiots.

Happy now?