Written by: buenoha, 21 May 2008 10:42 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Why are these children smuggled into the DR? What is the purpose? Please guide them back to Haiti and authorities in Haiti should try to keep these children in schools and orphanages.
Written by: rom1804 
, 21 May 2008 10:47 AM
From: Zimbabwe
WHY? COULD THIS BE WHY?
"US$1.B in renewable energy, biofuel projects start in June"
SANTO DOMINGO.- National Energy Commission president Arístides Fernandez said several projects, already approved and funded which top US$1.5 billion, assure renewable energy and biofuel production as of next month.
He said they only await the publication of the Special Regulation of Renewable Energy Sources Development Law.
“This is a priority for Dominican Republic which has president Leonel Fernandez’s initiative and commitment and we’re convinced of their immediate viability, so we guaranteed the country it will happen as of next month.”
Fernandez said he’s excited with the President’s confidence “in our institution and its competent technical personnel to attract those national and foreign investments tow the power sector to produce electricity and biofuels.”
The official said starting in 2009 there’ll be more than 3 billions dollars in total investments in renewable energy sources.
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 11:19 AM
From: United States
:( where are the foreign government stating that dominicans are racists who discriminate against the poor haitians. Here are the reports stating the facts. Again, sad but true...Haiti needs all the help it can get...a costilla de los dominicanos.. :(
donde esta Cibaeno75??? aqui tienes parte de lo que te estaba diciendo en el otro articulo.
:(
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 11:22 AM
From: United States
where are the foreign gov'ts and the catholic church officials accusing the dominican gov't for having a witch hunt on the poor haitian community and the abuse and deportation of the same?
I dont see these foreign gov't taking in any of the haitians and helping them in what is an obvious alarming condition (to say the least). Haiti needs the help of other gov'ts that have a vast amount of money and resources. DR is not able to handle such a task!!!
Written by: zak325, 21 May 2008 11:30 AM
From: United States
I don't get it. Do the border guards on the dominican side just let children in with suspect papers or none at all? do they question the adults with them? do they ask for proof of relation? it seem the only time Haitian immigration is talked about is at election time. Since the presidential election just ended, the government has no incentive to do anything. The Haitian border police share the responsibility for this problem as well, they allow the children leave without proper identification. The problem is similar to the Dominican prostituion situation, the governments don't give a damn about large segments of their population.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 11:35 AM
From: United States, Texas
"Why are these children smuggled into the DR?"
0000
They are commodities bought and sold ... sexually exploited, enslaved, tortured, and often murdered ... in a free market and in bourgeois democracy that supplies liberty and justice.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 11:36 AM
From: United States, Texas
"Why are these children smuggled into the DR?"
0000
It's good for CAFTA.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 11:48 AM
From: United States, Texas
"Why are these children smuggled into the DR?"
0000
Because the Dominican and foreign bourgeoisie in DR say they want the children and more of them because children yield a high rate of profit, especially when exploited savagely, and an influential sector of the Dominican people [like the US people] always, without fail, grovels before the Dominican bourgeoisie ... so-called "patriotism" ... no matter how sick the demands of the bourgeoisie are.
Like in the USA, we say "We got let the kids in the country because our big boss man says he wants them, but we still love human rights, liberty, and justice. After all, our elections show we have a beautiful bourgeois democracy or a democracy for the bourgeoisie."
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 12:04 PM
From: United States, Texas
The Haitian whether adult or child is not entering the DR contrary to the will of the ruling bourgeoisie, especially the bourgeoisie in agriculture and construction (and increasingly other sectors of the economy).
The bourgeoisie spits of the Dominican people, saying the Haitians are a lot cheaper to exploit; so, who cares what the low-class Dominicans want?
The Dominicans who are cast aside by the bourgeoisie quietly take the contempt of the bourgeoisie under the maxim "Give to the master, what belongs to the master."
Obviously, the Haitian need a nice revolution. But the US imperialists are now sending into Haiti a group of savage and animalistic US peacekeepers to prevent a revolution. Instead of bowing to the US imperialists, the DR should be promoting revolution in Haiti.
Written by: tejada, 21 May 2008 12:27 PM
From: United States
Belial, where do you get your sources for those statements? It is people like you that contribute to the non-sense about Dominican Republic being some kind of Haiti haters... that is not true. In general, that is not true.
From: United States
Tejada, Belial does not contribute to the belief that anti-haitianismo exists; it is common knowledge. your post is like saying that Martin Luther King contributed to the belief that racism existed in america. don´t blame Belial; blame the dominicans who are always saying ¨maldito haitiano¨or ¨maldito prieto¨. i suggest you look at those before you attack Belial on this score. sorry, Belial; i know you are quite capable of defending yourself rather articulately, but sometimes i am forced to express my astonishment at some things i read here!
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 1:15 PM
From: United States
bourgeoisie." Belial, dude, do you have any other words in your vocabulary.
:)
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 1:17 PM
From: United States
Belial, there isnt a message in which you dont use the word: bourgeoisie."
Bourgeoisie (RP /?b??.?w??'zi/, GA /?bu(r).?w?'zi/) is a classification used in analyzing human societies to describe a social class of people who are in the upper or merchant class, whose status or power comes from employment, education, and wealth as opposed to aristocratic origin. Petite bourgeoisie (also petty bourgeoisie) is used to describe the class below the bourgeoisie but above the proletariat. thankyou wikepidia
for those who dont know...
i had no choice but to look up the word. lol
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
wait you are now going to have to take on resident communist stooge and his assistant the "Air Bag" master of DATA and STATISTICS....so cuidado NYCDR
Written by: Jander, 21 May 2008 1:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
This isn't just happening in Santiago.
You cannot stop at a major intersection in the Capital without being barraged by these little lost souls. And the crazy part is you have Amet and PN at the same corners just turning their heads the other way. You want to feel sorry for them but by giving them money it only brings more the next time.
Bottom line is that Haiti should be preventing these children from getting out and the DR should prevent them from getting in.
This is not the worlds responsibility it is Haiti's and they need to get their act together rather then being a nation of beggars.Today is a good day to start!
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 1:38 PM
From: United States
Gouletcolonial, noooooooooohhhhhhhhh. dude I am not a fan of Belial. I know better...I dont agree with his politics. I am only making fun of the fact that he does not know any other words...
I am not that pessimistic in my outlook of life.
Written by: NYCDR, 21 May 2008 1:40 PM
From: United States
Jander, applause. I agree 100% with your statement.!!!! Y eso que tu estas haya. Que sabes mejor que nadie de este problema!!!
People immediately jump into the racist card...its not racist...its just like you said its their problem not ours...period
Written by: DennisC, 21 May 2008 1:50 PM
From: United States
Belial:
you must be nuts, that is a lot of nonsense product of your sick mind, just who you think is going
to believe such idiots comments?
Written by: Jander, 21 May 2008 2:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The DR needs to do their part and round these children up and drop them at the doorstep of the Haitian Embassy. When I say drop them I mean in a humane manner.
Or set up camps /detention facilities where there is food and shelter.
What are they doing with the facilities they used for the Pan American games?
The DR should take a page out of the book that the US used when Castro sent us all his undesirables. Watch Scarface to remind you
From: Haiti
Jander, I agree with you that the haitian government must take action but the dominican government has played the blind man as well. The haitian young boys and girls in the streets of dominican republic must be address in a humane manner. Yes it is the haitian governments responsiblity but also the dominican government for only taking action during the elections or when it suits the political need. Let's leave the race card out of it but we now if these boys where little agentinians it would be considered a blessing to the DR. Regardless of this aspect of it this issue must be address. Simple correction. "haya" is spelled "allá". Also combatting illiteracy among the dominicans abroad and in the DR most be address immediately which can't be blamed on haitians. The castellano language most be preserved in its correct form rather than writing primitive spanish that does NOT make sense.
Written by: MrDom, 21 May 2008 2:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo, DN
The situation in Haiti must be awful... if parents leave their children to go to a different country to beg and sleep on the streets...
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
belial and dread want to twist this human tragedy to suit some goofball ideology in belials case and sinister and separatist on the part of Dread the Red ..... both of these American blacks paint this tragedy as the fault of the white American exploiters and their tools in the D.R....what fools......you gonna show those hayseed Latinos in the DR how to kick whiteys ass......This is a human tragedy and should not be looked at as an opportunity to make more problems out of this very sensitive subject.....Politically and Racially
From: Haiti
MrDom, I dont think these children were abandon by their parents rather out of love of being better off are persuaded by dominican & haitian buscones that recruit them. Actually many have to pay the "toll" to get them across and unfortunately realize that life is hard there too and fall into the vicious cycle of exploitation by haitians and dominicans. Why not have a march to the haitian consulate in the capitol to adress this issue(a peaceful one) keep machetes and burning tires at home. International community can lay of the DR's back and good PR for the country. Too bad that this is a burgeoning business and the real people that call the shots are reaping the benefits. BTW, the CESFRONT is a joke..they have taken the trade over and also meddling in other illicit activities affecting both countries. What are the solutions? Please be serious and not talk B.S.
Written by: ny4life, 21 May 2008 3:44 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
Haitians are selling there children to go to DR to live a better life. That's sad that Haiti isn't doing anything to prevent it. The CESFRONT needs to work more effectively to combat illegal Immigration. What doesn't Haiti have a border patrol??????? I think it's very necessary or maybe they just don't want and rather just want to continue to the trend of massive exodus to the DR. There is no campaign in Haiti against illegal migration to DR. One should be created.
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 5:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jabaohaitian take care of your people, haiti is not a country. Haiti is a haven of criminals that dont care for there people. And jabao what's that trashy french that you speak over there in haiti, o'yeah it's called haitian-creole!
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 5:53 PM
From: United States, Texas
"belial and dread want to twist this human tragedy to suit some goofball ideology in belials case and sinister and separatist on the part of Dread the Red ..... both of these American blacks paint this tragedy as the fault of the white American exploiters and their tools in the D.R....what fools......you gonna show those hayseed Latinos in the DR how to kick whiteys ass......This is a human tragedy and should not be looked at as an opportunity to make more problems out of this very sensitive subject.....Politically and Racially"
oooo
GC will show the Canadian welfare office a hard copy of above post to justify continuation of his monthly crazy check.
Written by: Jander, 21 May 2008 6:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
It is puzzling to me the kids I see nearby where I live appear healthy and don't so show signs of malnutrition . It may just be a coincidence that there are hundreds of Haitian construction workers, working a project at the same intersection. So are these kids homeless or just out picking up a few extra pesos while dad is working nearby?
Either way they are in danger from getting run over ,abuse and the elements.
Haiti is important to the DR and has become as Mexico is to the US.
I just don't beleive there is an easy answer to this problem.
I guess my final thought is all of us whom have had fortunate lives should be thankful and not take anything for granted.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 6:15 PM
From: United States, Texas
"Haitians are selling there children to go to DR to live a better life. That's sad that Haiti isn't doing anything to prevent it. "
oooo
Please, don't get sentimental over Dominican-Haitian slave trade because today's slaveholders don't discriminate on the basis of age (child or adult), national origin (Haitian or Dominican), gender (male or female or others).
Here's an example, about HALF A MILLION Dominicans (that's national origin), women (that's age and gender), have been exported (that's LARGELY human trafficking) from the DR to be exploited in the international sex trade, especially in USA, Canada, and western Europe.
Nobody wants Haitians for either mid-level or upscale prostitutes outside of the DR, because Haitians are presumed to be infected. Haiians prostitutes serve as streetwalkers until they and their tricks drop dead from infection.
So, what Dominican bourgeoisie does to Haitians whatever the age, it also does to Dominicans, perhaps on a larger scale.
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 6:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You notice how jabaohaitiano turns everything into a racial issue, meanwhile in Haiti the 3% mulatto elite pray all day to get rid of there mostly black population, these uneducated people are a threat to our sovereignty. A haitian mother typically has 6 children, this is only going to further strain the economy of D.R., the only real answer is massive deportation. And the construction of a wall on the border between both countries. That should be our next metro, now watch how these pathetic people use the race card as their only defense. Or blame trujillo or blame anything but not the ghost goverment in Haiti.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 6:35 PM
From: United States, Texas
To be judged crazy, doctors had to find that GC has a mental, emotional, or physical disease that kept him from thinking.
The doctors found that GC was a grabber and therefore he suffered from grabbism.
A grabber takes without consent whatever is in the hands of a person near the grabber -- whether the person near the grabber has a piece of paper, pencil, hammer, or penis in his hand.
The grabber grabs it.
When GC first disclosed that he was a grabber, his application for a crazy check from the government was turned down, because the doctors believed GC's disease was too common.
Then GC declared that he was bourgeois or a cappie because he's a grabber.
The doctors immediately gave him his crazy check.
From: Haiti
Ny4LIFE
Haiti needs to have there own CESFRONT to combat undocumented haitians. I dont think there is a conspiracy theory that haitians want to invade the DR . DR is chugging and alot of its progress has alot to do with cheap labour where they return home for christmas and brag how they've mean millions of pesos on the other side. Just the same when poor dominicans working 24/7 in the USA to save money to go back home to brag and show off. Sad but this is the reality and I agree that the haitian government needs to step up. Re-instate the haitian army to secure the borders. Jander I dont know if these kids look in top shape but they need to be some sort of control programs to get them back home. I have given a few pesos to some and when I speak creole to them they brighten up but are still weary. Some these kids are dominicans too..not all panhandlers are haitian. Arcatype, please stop making a fool at of urself..you get the cone over head and go sit in the corner.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
archie you are playing right into the hand of the moron belial and "dred the red" by painting this picture ....But you are correct it is easy for outside jerks with there own agenda to throw stones when the international community should help more after all they are the ones that installed Aristide the Dwarf and started this disaster
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 7:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Jabaohaitiano Why do you pull the U.S.A card, this article and thread has nothing to do with the U.S., it's speaking clearly of the D.R. Now these kids are dominicans????? sure jabaohaitiano, like dominican mothers are the one's sending their children to beg in the street's of Santiago? Litsen mr. jabaohaitiano only in your dreams those children are dominican nationals. All of those poor children are haitians, from mothers that cross illegaly the border. Since Haiti lacks the facilities namely hospitals to have their children, jabaohaitiano you are as pathetic as your country. Not worth a dirty penny.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 7:44 PM
From: United States, Texas
"sorry, Belial; i know you are quite capable of defending yourself " Dreadlocks apologizes.
000
God, the boss of the good divine beings, says when at least two people, rather than only one, ideologically stomp a horrible reactionary, the reactionary typically recoups and reforms faster.
So, please, stomp as much as you ike.
Written by: Trujillo, 21 May 2008 7:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The wall. Is to much to ask for a wall, NOT a fence, a great wall (like the great wall of china). A very high and deep wall that also stretches a few kilometers (the more the better) into the caribbean sea and the atlantic ocean with just 2 or 3 gates for legal crossings and commerce. This wall can have restaurants, hotels, museums, etc. for tourists so it would keep generating wealth long after it pays for itself...and of course, it should house military bases as well.
Written by: Trujillo, 21 May 2008 7:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Tejeda, belial gets his"sources" from something called drugs...lots of drugs. Also, from the commie brainwash he got.
Written by: Trujillo, 21 May 2008 7:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
There is border patrol in the DR, but they just check a few places plus they are bribed easily.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 7:54 PM
From: United States, Texas
"dred the red"
0000000000
GC first says Dreadlocks is black. Oh, lord!
Then GC says Dread in red.
Next, GC will accuse Dread on being for the Boston Celtics.
From: United States, Spring Valley, NY
LoL Trujillo....... your right. Maybe then those sluts would stop flooding the streets of Cap-Haitien and Ouanaminthe.
From: Haiti
Arcatype, I refer to the USA because you are a little spic that has a double morals. Simply as that. Lets leave it at that. So there are no poor dominicans on the streets of the DR..you my friend are a fool and making ur people look bad. If your platano and salami self read my post I think this issue should be address.
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 9:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Jabaohaitiano Im sorry carbon im from Santiago and the majority of the people around, are not that dark. And typically the children begging in the street's come from one place Haiti. Thanks for the spic i do spic spanish, mr. Jabao Carbon!!!!! do you speak trash french yes you do is called haitian-creole.
From: United States
It's unfortunate but what Haiti really needs is a hard-line dictator like Papa Doc Duvalier to bring them out of their misery. That country is in chaos and no matter what new government steps in; they do nothing to stir the economy or foreign investment. Where is the Haitian elite in all of this. Why is it always up to the DR to resolve its neighbor's problems? When Duvalier ruled; Haiti was much more prestigeous and economically better than today. Again, it's unfortunate but sometimes you need these kinds of leaders to bring order to chaos. In the meantime, there should be a bi-national conserted effort to keep these children in their homeland. If they're going to be exploited; it should not be on Dominican soil, otherwise, it gives pro-Haitian groups who seek to defame the DR's image abroad even more ammunition.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Hunk you mean the two lefty losers I have referred to Splat and his assistant ?
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 9:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti is not going to change unless foreign investors pour heavy capital there, to build an infrastructure that's going to last. Forget about the small elite in Haiti they can't do, and they dont want to do nothing for their people. In a society that has segregated it self from the majority of it's population dont expect any miracle to occur, just expect a marathon of coup d'etats. I think Haiti is the title holder of the most overthrown goverment marathon in the world. The U.N. is there and i just dont get the level of corruption in that country, it's almost cartoonish and unreal.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Hunk please give them a wack with the pinata stick ...they are well deserving.....and archie I love it "cartoonish and unreal" it reminds me of the PRD
Written by: arcatype 
, 21 May 2008 10:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Thank you gouletcolonial!
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 10:27 PM
From: United States, Texas
In morally advanced countries, some people traffick in children.
But in some countries, the human trafficking involves cute little babies.
oooo
http://fe4.news.sp1.yahoo.com/s/a...._ylt=AgMNdDRAkzw4EtNWkNG4fVe3IxIF"Guatemala's attorney general said Wednesday he has annulled 15 pending adoptions to U.S. couples after finding evidence of fraud or other irregularities."
"Attorney General Baudilio Portillo suspended all of Guatemala's 2,286 pending adoption cases in early May to investigate them."
"It was not clear if the U.S. couples affected had been notified."
"Guatemala has been plagued by allegations of adoption fraud, including claims that babies are stolen from their birth parents or even sold by poor birth mothers."
0000
US COUPLE: I bought the baby on the free market. It's mine.
GUATEMALAN AG: The baby isn't a thing, it's a being.
US COUPLE: What?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I would like to take this opportunity to mourn the passing of Josean and Rubirosa who have been missing for some time.....there have been dark rumors of having run off to California to be together no one knows for sure but their constant bickering will be sorely missed... it is as if only yesterday Josean was here complaining about the metro or as he used to say Metrolandia and then good old Rubi would accuse him of dubious parentage and national origin ah yes nostalgia.....it aint what it used to be...well guys where ever you are good luck and drop us a line
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 10:38 PM
From: United States, Texas
A US couple can buy ["adopt"] a baby in Guatemala as cheap as $5000 and resell ["re-adopt'] the baby in the USA for as much as $30,000 or $40,000.
There are freaks who have a thing for babies.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 10:42 PM
From: United States, Texas
Some US "couples" ( sometimes these US "couples" consist of one or as many as four persons) have bought or "adopted" over the years as many as 15 or 20 Guatemalan babies.
Written by: Belial, 21 May 2008 10:50 PM
From: United States, Texas
In Guatemala, there's a formal procedure for buying a baby called "adoption," involving lawyers, social workers, and fake birth mothers.
Then there is also an informal, cheaper and fast-track procedure that consists of killing the real mother and father, if necessary, and selling the baby directly to the US "couple."
The informal procedure is increasingly favored because the US "couple" sometimes doesn't have to travel to Guatemala.
Written by: antonioj, 21 May 2008 10:53 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"the 3% mulatto elite pray all day to get rid of there mostly black population, these uneducated people are a threat to our sovereignty. A haitian mother typically has 6 children, this is only going to further strain the economy of D.R., the only real answer is massive deportation. And the construction of a wall on the border between
"
This is a new low, very hard to beleive such a commentary coming from you, estimado primo why so much hate,?? you have strike me as someone with some education, that will think first and analyze, please keep some fyour passion under control. Deep down after you remove the smog Dominicans are good people so are the Haitians.However bad crops exist on both sides. For Haitian that do not want to believe me see border country like zimbabwe and South Africa. Mr Arctype I hope in future you can do your best to keep it civilize and respectful.Your figure of 3% mulatto is wrong, misleading statement "getting rid of blacks" try population control.
From: Haiti
It is sad and heart breaking to hear dominicans from the diaspora talking nonsense when they have most things in common with haitians that go to the DR looking for work. Both are poor and have been marginalize for generations. Now a few with american taxpayers money have learn how to read and write use it to push the small guy down rather than giving him a hand up. It is true that haitian children need to be repatriated to their native country in a humane manner. Yes the haitian government must take responsibilities but re-inforcing stereotypes will not achieve anything. For god sakes you guys barely can write in spanish on a third grade level which shows which class of the outskirts of santiago you come from..Yeah every dominican in the USA were rich in the DR and all from the capitol or Santiago. Again this hatred or fustration isn't doing any good. NGO's are going to have a field day with this and you idiots are taking bait. Please stop the hate and non sense.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Jabao...Ditto
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 10:34 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Jabaohaitiano is a self loathing haitian, typical haitian responses. While in Haiti their eating mud cookies, this a-hole criticizes our country and we give them jobs, shelter, medical assistance. And what they have in Haiti, a stooge of a president and a bunch of crazy people on the sidelines.
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 12:34 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Pretty strong response from JabaoHaitian, well like they say "for every action , there is a reaction"
please let's us elevate the discussion to a higher level here.
I would be interested to hear from our distinguish Mr Lautaro on that subject.
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 12:47 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Very good point here Mr arctype no doubt, I think a quiet revolution is needed and a change in the Haitian psyche.
"Haiti is not going to change unless foreign investors pour heavy capital there, to build an infrastructure that's going to last. Forget about the small elite in Haiti they can't do, and they dont want to do nothing for their people. In a society that has segregated it self from the majority of it's population dont expect any miracle to occur, just expect a marathon of coup d'etats. I think Haiti is the title holder of the most overthrown goverment marathon in the world. The U.N. is there and i just dont get the level of corruption in that country, it's almost cartoonish and unreal.
"
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
this gets very ugly ....We should consider subject at hand is innocent children.... non constructive insults although they are my specialty should not be used here
From: United States
HAITIANO JABAO,you said if the children were from argentina ,we will not complain.thats- our prerogative.we dont need to turn my beatuful country into a zoo,or worse a haitian favela. and stop acting that you are so educated,you are a trash talking hatian.mind haiti problem and stop puting your nose in our problems.and last if is true that a dominican woman marrry you she probably have a very low self steam.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 1:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Inspiring words, thank you trujillo1937.
From: Haiti
Trujillo,
I see you've been reading my post. Sorry I don't sign autographs. What constructive response can you type rather than rant garbage. Please leave personal insults of family out of it. Geez, you scums from the states are worse than the tigueres in Santo Domingo. Lacking morals and have no limits.
From: United States, New York City
That someone would post under trujillo1937. with all the negative connotations attributed to that man and that year in particular, is disturbing to me to say the least. Genocide. no matter the scale, is no laughing matter and it's insulting to all human decency to applaud such an undertaking.
Jabao, you let certain posters get under your skin and as a result you post comments that end up insulting others beside your intended targets. It has become more then obvious that certain people on here are mental midgets. May I humbly suggest to you not to stoop to their level and let them grovel in the mud alone.
Written by: NYCDR, 22 May 2008 2:17 PM
From: United States
:( Here we go again.
The problem continues to be the children left behind that should be taken care off by their parents, their own gov't, the foreign govts and the catholic priests who voist the racist card whenever we want to defend our own.
Well. that is the solution,
is not a matter of scums from the states Mr. JabaoHaitian,
Its a matter of taking care of your own.
The best thing I suggest for Haiti is to annex their country to one of these foreign countries or the catholic church (make you good christians in the way) , those who do marches and bring the press about the badly treated haitians in DR.
See how quick these foreign gov'ts and religious institutions come to help you out of your need!
:(
because the blame game does not get you far...the get off the wining, blame game and get to it is what really works...
Written by: NYCDR, 22 May 2008 2:18 PM
From: United States
Cibaeno 75, welcome to the debate. :)
From: United States, New York City
"Cibaeno 75, welcome to the debate. :)"
Hi but I'm not even debating. My position is well known. As I'm aware that others beside Dominicans read these threads I wanted it to be made known that there are Dominicans that not only are ashamed by what happened in 1937 but who will condemn publicly anyone who would applaud such a thing. I'm refferring of course to the Haitian massacre of 1937 perpetrated by the Trujillo regime. It's disgusting that someone would pick up that incident as a banner.
From: United States
TO.CIBAENO75 .Idoubt that you are dominican,less cibaeno. i`m a real cibaeno. HAVE YOU forget what DESSALINE DID IN MOCA,AND SAN FCO. DE MACORIS. 37 WAS JUST A LITLE PAID BACK.
From: United States, New York City
"TO.CIBAENO75 .Idoubt that you are dominican,less cibaeno. i`m a real cibaeno. HAVE YOU forget what DESSALINE DID IN MOCA,AND SAN FCO. DE MACORIS. 37 WAS JUST A LITLE PAID BACK."
I don't give a certain rodent's behind if you think I'm Dominican or not. I'd be loath to share any type of affiliation with someone such as yourself in any event. And indeed what Dessalines' troops did was wrong but that does not justify anything.
Written by: NYCDR, 22 May 2008 3:09 PM
From: United States
Cibaeno 75, when you click on Trujillo 1937 it says Cibaeno 75????
are you one or 2 people. its confusing??
From: United States, New York City
"Cibaeno 75, when you click on Trujillo 1937 it says Cibaeno 75????
are you one or 2 people. its confusing??"
I don't know how that's possible but I can assure you that I would never post under such a name.
I just clicked on the other individual's name and no such thing happened to me. Try again NYCDR. The glitch seems to be on your end.
Written by: NYCDR, 22 May 2008 3:14 PM
From: United States
???
its the system
Written by: NYCDR, 22 May 2008 3:16 PM
From: United States
Trust me. I read the life of trujillo and the biography of Rubirosa.
Trujillo un despota and Rubirosa un exajerador embustero y para colmo lambon.
I dont consider these people in the definition of what a man is!!!
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 3:17 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I have read alot of heated interesting debate, this one is certainly Not. If we can all cool the rethoric may be at least we can understand each other. and learn something. Mr Arctype I understand that Mr JabaoHaitien may have been provoked by your remark rightly so, however let not forget the children are our future no matter what nationalities, let's be human first before anything else.
The quality of the blog have been deteriorating we need more Lautaro, Cibaneo75, gouletcolonial, among others. I want to remind Mr JabaoHaitien not all Dominicans do carry these extreme views. The extremist are usually more vocal, and do not reflect the view of the silent majority, it's fine to hear them, let them expose themselves, we are not living an innocent and perfect island or world for that matter.
Let me quote a famous Haitian saying "la meprise vaux mieux que la reponse"
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 3:24 PM
From: Canada, home safe
lol Mr JabaoHaitien I hope this one is not copyrighted, I intend to use it ja jaja
"I see you've been reading my post. Sorry I don't sign autographs. What constructive response can you type rather than rant garbage"
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 3:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To some Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was a nationalist el benefactor de la patria or the benefactor of the homeland. In Haiti they worship Jean Jacques Dessalines, Henri Christophe, Jean Pierre Boyer, Toussaint Louverture they are considered assassins in the Dominican Republic. Some people's heroes are others people's villains. Trujillo was a ruthless dictator he had good aspects but he also had a bad side, when he ordered the assasination of the Mirabal sisters the dominican people could never forgive such a horrible murder especially coming from the hand of a dominican himself, so he paid the price. He was finally assassinated.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
this is true belial will tell you "Joe Stalin was a nice guy once you got to know him "
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 3:56 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Mr Arctype
"To some Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was a nationalist el benefactor de la patria or the benefactor of the homeland. In Haiti they worship Jean Jacques Dessalines, Henri Christophe, Jean Pierre Boyer, Toussaint Louverture they are considered assassins in the Dominican Republic. Some people's heroes are others people's villains"
Wrong again most Haitians (90%) do not share the view of Dessalines or condone his action only the extremist do. Yes Indeed Haitians worship Toussaint, he's an Hero not only for Haiti but for the world. If the independence of Haiti was done by Toussaint we would not have a conversation right now, go dig and do alittle bit more research. France took away the best hope Toussaint and penalize Haiti with a heavy debt these 2 actions were pivotal in determining the future or separation of the island.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 5:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Antonioj When Toussaint Louverture invaded the eastern side of the island he wanted to unify the island under the french flag thats true. The treaty of basel was signed between France and Spain in 1795 if im not mistaken with the year, the spanish were forced to relagate the spanish side of the island of hispaniola in exchange for a portion of land in Spain. The french at that point were in posession of the whole island, the spanish colonist on the eastern side of hispaniola were against such occupation by the french. They knew the threat it posed from the western side of the island due to the fact that the french had lost control of their former colony, at that time the haitians had recently freed themselves from slavery from the french. Toussaint Louverture wanted to unify the whole island and create a unity between the french and the haitians, and abolish slavery for his people and to also liberate the 30,000 or so.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 5:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Cont., Slaves on the eastern side of the island. When Toussaint Louverture and his large contingency took control of the whole island, he officially took over the city of Santo Domingo. Many spaniards were asked by toussaint's troops to who you hold your allegiance France or Spain. Many said Spain, at that point they were killed on the spot. Many spaniards left the island to other nearby spanish colonies to escape the massacres that occured then. thankfully the french captured Toussaint Louverture by the orders of Napoleon Bonaparte then he was jailed and later died. At that point the french took over control again, until the spanish with the assistance of the british took over the eastern side of the island.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 5:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
So no, Toussaint Louverture was not our guy. He was Haiti's guy, he was trying to be noble to his people in Haiti. He wanted to bridge the gap between the blacks in Haiti and the white french, on the expense of the future dominicans. At the same time he was trying to free the slaves on the eastern side of the island also a noble cause, but remember that the eastern side of the island had a ratio of less slaves and more colonist, criollos, mestizos and freed blacks and mulattos. Haiti was inhabited mainly by former slaves and a few mulattos, that's the difference.
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 6:26 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Very good point Mr Arcatype, and I agree with everything you said except your analogy that
"Toussaint Louverture was not our guy" I will differ on that, the man was a consensus builder do you know what, "louverture " mean ? opening, abierto.
"Haiti was inhabited mainly by former slaves and a few mulattos, that's the difference. "
seem a little bit off the subject here, any ways thanks for your good posting
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 7:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Antonioj Well if the majority of the people living in your country were getting killed by a foreigner who's intentions were not in their interest. Then you are violating their rights.
Written by: rom1804 
, 22 May 2008 8:48 PM
From: Zimbabwe
MUST I REMIND YOU "arcatype"
Until she spoke, no Christian nation had abolished Negro slavery.
Until she spoke, no Christian nation had given to the world an organized effort to abolish slavery.
Until she spoke, the slave ship, followed by hungry sharks, greedy to devour the dead and dying slaves flung overboard to feed them, ploughed in peace the South Atlantic, painting the sea with the Negro’s blood.
Until she spoke, the slave trade was sanctioned by all the Christian nations of the world, and our land of liberty and light included.
Men made fortunes by this infernal traffic, and were esteemed as good Christians, and the standing types and representations of the Savior of the World.
Until Haiti spoke, the church was silent, and the pulpit was dumb.
Slave-traders lived and slave-traders died.
Funeral sermons were preached over them, and of them it was said that they died in the triumphs of the Christian faith and went to heaven among the just.
Frederick D.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 8:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: rom1804 May i remind you also that dominicans chose to be free from all foreign powers DIOS PATRIA Y LIBERTAD.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
1804.....an edifying post ....Fredrick Douglas an American hero
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 9:07 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Mr acartype
To: Antonioj Well if the majority of the people living in your country were getting killed by a foreigner who's intentions were not in their interest. Then you are violating their rights.
"
No one can disagree with that very good point, however it depends on which perspective, keep in mind that DR and Haiti were in their infancy, and not yet completely defined as a nation during that period of history, I think your point will make much more sense , if your were to direct it toward the invaders (french,spain) and the plight of the Taino people.
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 9:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Antonioj Perspective and reality are two different things, destiny was the last result.
Written by: Lautaro, 22 May 2008 9:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Why don´t you go with your complaints to the people responsible for the maintainment of this problem (i.e. the military, the landlords and their traffickers), mr. arcatype? It would be better if, for once, you would make us a favour by throwing your shots to those aristochratic sectors of our society, because doing what you´re doing right now (venting your rage with the victims of this problem), is doing more ill than good to your image and the one from our people in general. From my point of view, the only objective of this constant trafficking is to ensure the existence of an army of people without papers whom to exploit in the future, which is in perspective a foolish thing, because, if the elites and the military were to know any better, they would know that the haitians are one of the human groups with more potential for revolutionary activity in the entire history of humanity. In short, they're only sharpening the knives that could cut their throats in the future.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
archie ....sorry to tell you that is a different kettle of fish.....Haiti is still being punished for its insolence in 1804..... the european powers who ganged up on little Haiti and treated it with disdain.... then to have USA do more of the same has left the country in ruin....All of this because it was black is pure racism....that said Dominican Haitian relations are more complicated by far and require the outside observer to acknowledge this and that both parties are treated fairly and humanely in these disputes....outsiders;walk a mile in their shoes.....before you criticize either party
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 10:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Well Lautaro and gouletcolonial dont blame the Dominican Republic for the problems in Haiti. I dont think the goverment in Haiti wants to put there house in order. Racism in Haiti is very prevalent by the very small elite there, everybody want's to blame external forces. Nobody ever does anything inside the house, the haitian diaspora that lives outside of their country needs to do something radical to change the situation in Haiti since no one inside the country is doing something productive to at least mediate some of the problems. The Dominican Republic cant and should not take care of another country's misery we are not the creators of their misfortunes.
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 10:27 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"arcatype, 22 May 2008 9:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Antonioj Perspective and reality are two different things, destiny was the last result.
"
SO TRUE,
Mr Lautaro, nice to hear from you finally, keep your commentary coming. I could not agree more with what you said and it's evident throughout history. Mr Lautaro what happened to the army that was stationned at the border(cesfront), I saw the Haitians kids on youtube they seem to be wandering freely.
Written by: Lautaro, 22 May 2008 10:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The Cesfront is only a sideshow to appease the rightist, ultranationalistic sectors of the government, mr. antonioj. As you can see, it´s useless to increase the border guard if the state doesn´t make some improvements on the salaries of the soldiers that will be posted over there for starters. That way, the new guards wouldn´t have the temptation to fall on the same corrupt practices that have been characteristic of the armed divisions already over there for decades. By the way, why haven´t participated on the forum yet? because your input would be very much appreciated on some of the topics over there.
Written by: antonioj, 22 May 2008 10:45 PM
From: Canada, home safe
From reading many blogs in the forum one thing that concerns most Dominicans including Mr arcatype I guess is the insecurity and the equilibrium change in the ethnic distribution of DR with the high influx of Haitians will cause.
Some positive steps, that can help
0. Resolve, and give amnesty to 2nd generation born, including humane repatratiation.
1.DR authority should take seriously, and upheld their immigration law.
2. Willingness to assist Haiti in a meaningfull way, specially in the frontier area.
3. Stop looking at Haiti, your first commercial partner as a dumping ground for your products.
4. Create a free trade zone area.
I am not sure this is the concern of Leonel on his third term, can you comment why not ??
Written by: arcatype 
, 22 May 2008 10:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
How about the accelerated birth rate in Haiti, what are haitian authorities doing about this matter? If you cant feed yourself dont have children that you can't take care of, If you notice the top well to do countries in the world have low population rates. That's the case with Scandinavian countries, like i always say more people more problems.
Written by: rom1804 
, 22 May 2008 10:57 PM
From: Zimbabwe
Wait till they get a load of me!
From: Dominican Republic
Migrants flee South Africa as army deals with mobs
More than 10,000 Mozambicans have fled from South Africa to escape xenophobic attacks that have killed at least 42 people.
Leonardo Boby, a senior Mozambican migration official, said 10,047 people had returned home in buses provided by the government. "The number is likely to increase in the next days as long as violence unfolds in South Africa," he added.
From: Dominican Republic
The last posting is today's news from South Africa, but that can well be a future article from Dominican Republic. It is important to point out that, contrary to what haitians are always saying, this is problem not about race but resources. And the domincan people, not the army or the police, are the ones will react to massive inflow of haitians.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 1:13 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Carlos Diaz good analysis.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
What we fail to realize on here is that, even the Dominican border guards are engaged in dealing with those traffickers for money. Neither Haitians and Dominicans can lie about that. Ironically and funny enough, most of those traffickers are Dominicans themselves as well as there are Haitians. It is a well coordinated process with a strong organized backing of both, exploitive Dominican businesses and the support of corrupted people with authority in DR. Call this speculation yet a hard truth and pill to swallow, but that is the reality of it all. It starts with Haitian traffickers who have the promissory demands for these kids in return for cash along with the constant bribery of Dominicans border guards profiting from this who often are the very ones to go rallying up those very same kids they have allowed in then repatriate them back to the Haitian border back into Haiti in effort to show or pretend that they are cracking down on this very same crime they are partaking into.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
"If you cant feed yourself dont have children that you can't take care of." said Arc-a-Type.
Yeah okay Arc - a - type,
Say that very same statement to many Latinos living in many latin communities here in the United States who are having children left and right by the tough of a finger faster than horses and mules do, dropping out of school and living in poverty themselves and are committing gang related grand theft auto and robbery here in the US in the statistically proven rate of 75%. I never here a hispanic person come forward and tell them anything about family planing of any kinds or sorts.
But hey anyway, anything you can say or do to justify or to mask your already prejudicial discriminative views of Haitians I suppose. Sure... racist Arc - A - Type.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Lastly AntonioJ,
You statements above are the primary solutions to help deal with this great social conflict between the two respective Nations. I suspect you are not Dominicans and if you are, you are about the third Dominican on here aside myself to have directly or indirectly suggested such a realistic probable and feasible remedy to the situation both Countries face. whether you meant it in a humorous way nor do I know if there are any hidden racist divisive motivation behind it, but it is quite a great suggestive approach the politicians of my dear both Haiti and DR can start engaging into for the sake of a harmonious Hispaniola. Lautaro and NY4LIFE are the only individuals you could engage in a more intellectual impartial dialogues with on the subject of DR and Haiti, thus do not waste your breath with most of the other ones on here and that goes for both some ignorant Haitians and Dominicans who seem to not even know what they are talking about.
I applaud you for it!
From: United States
Nothing generates more comments than Dominican-Haitian issues. The exchanges are hilarious and childish. 1804 remains a nightmare for the white community. To this day, Haitians are paying its consequences. Haitian elites (bourgeoisieand intellectual) are part of the problem.Troubles between the two countries go back to Treaties of Ryswick and Basle etcccc. We weren't even Haitians or Dominicans. We have inherited the problems of France and Spain and certain folks who still can't grasp the idea of freedom are stepping in the path of the masters. Eites on both sides of the borders are cashing on our stupidity. Please, read "Composicion social Domonicana" by Dr. Juan Bosch to have a different perspective. The so-called intellectuals who rewrote DR's history were just a bunch of cowards. No wonder that El benefactor may have slept with the wives of many of them................ to their delight.
From: United States, Smyrna, GA
Ah we just may have a new intelligent prospect poster on here, thus I say welcome to AnnaKarina. I will read that book. However you say the author is Dr. Juan Bosch as in the former DR President or a totally different Dr Juan Bosch? He himself was quite racist towards Haitians whom may have sought to adopt Trujillo's method... I will read it anyway.
Written by: antonioj, 23 May 2008 6:17 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"
The last posting is today's news from South Africa, but that can well be a future article from Dominican Republic. It is important to point out that, contrary to what haitians are always saying, this is problem not about race but resources. And the domincan people, not the army or the police, are the ones will react to massive inflow of haitians.
"
Good posting Carlo diaz I read the article myself and I was outrage, DR is way more civilize than these nations. I think resources play a greater part, however you can not disgard discrimination outright.
Mr Arcatype you it the nail right on the head, and I agree with you 101 percent, population control is thru education of the masses, people living on the country side will have alot of children and think it's given by God ?? figure this one out. The well off people in Haiti do not have a lot of offsprings, however the poor do, they should attached population control as a prerequisition to any help given to Haiti. One child r
Written by: antonioj, 23 May 2008 6:34 AM
From: Canada, home safe
HispanolanoYoSoy,
Actually I am 101% Haitian one of these few lights skin one, I am proud to say I carry polish blood and the blood of these courageous slavesman that founded our nation, born and raise in Jeremie ,ti papa.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 May 2008 7:40 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
HispanolanoYoSoy: "However you say the author is Dr. Juan Bosch as in the former DR President or a totally different Dr Juan Bosch? He himself was quite racist towards Haitians whom may have sought to adopt Trujillo's method... I will read it anyway."
Can you show me proof about Juan Bosch, the most democratic president on the history of the DR, being a racist? As I told you earlier (and apparently, you didn't listen) the only quarrel that Bosch had with Haiti would be with Papa Doc's regime, and he had all the reason in the world to react the way he did, seeing as how embassies are considered to be foreign territory, and Duvalier's goons attacked the dominican embassy on Port-Au-Prince for it granting asylum to the political opponents of that regime that were fleeing that dictatorship's wrath. An attack on a foreign embassy is usually considered an act of war, didn't they teach you that at the US Army, Hispanolano?
From: United States
hispanoyosoy,
i don't know in what part of the world u live. if u r in the usa, walk into any public library to the "america's section", u'll find countless books by different honest intellectuals with various opinions about the dominicano-haitian issues. it pays to read.
From: Haiti
I am staying out of this..Lautaro..more cocotazos...pa'lante..Hispano..the back of your head should be soar..lol..Just kidding..my amigo...Antonio..moun jeremie. Diaz, I mention that on another post. It is sad and Im praying this never happen hear..Lautaro do you think this act can occur in the DR
From: Haiti
Sadat, great idea..oh by the way..haiti shares and island with the DR so you'll be blowing your right foot off while trying to run and realizing your shoe laces are in a bow tie with you left foot..Ka boom!!!!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Sadat if the guards see you using the internet you are going to be in big trouble and you will have to go back to your cell
Written by: Lautaro, 23 May 2008 10:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
It'll all depend on the future economic performance of both countries, jabao. If the current status quo persists over time, there's a chance that those dreadful events might become a reality. As I said on other articles, the only way for this to be avoided is that, somehow, both nations of the island achieve more or less the same levels of economic parity, and of course, this may sound undemocratic, but this economic parity should be joined by a prohibition of the traditional confrontational discourses on both sides of the island.
From: United States, Reality Check
The kids are used to ingest drugs and smuggled across the border. When drugs pass through them on the other side (in Santiago) the drug runners have no further use for them. This micro trafficking is collected in Santiago barrios like Los Platanitos by drug families like the Pichardo's who allow the drugs to cool off and then re-distribute them into the drug pipeline system. This is big business whereby gang members like Choppo (Jose Annibal Lopez Pichardo) and his brother Bacho have long criminal records for drug smuggling and have used profits to buy real estate, apartment buildings etc. These guys have bought both the local Santiago police and the DNCD who will not come to Choppo's house and bust up the drug network. It seems the politicians are paid off as well to look the other way... The Haitian kids on the street are only a by-product of the RD corruption and Haitian poverty.
Juan_de_eeuu@hotmail.com
From: United States, New York City
"Sadat if the guards see you using the internet you are going to be in big trouble and you will have to go back to your cell"
LOL...then they'll try to figure out how he loosened his restraints..lol
From: United States, New York City
You gotta give it to Dominguez..he's not giving up for one minute on letting everybody know what's going on in Los Platatanitos...I hope you manage to clean up your barrio from the scum that's messing it up for everybody else.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 12:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
So now all these orphan children are ingesting drugs to smuggle them across the border? ha! you guys just amaze me, on how pathetic you are as a people and as a country. And to Anakarinna let me remind you that when ever the haitians crossed into the eastern side of the island they targeted whites because the haitians were racist and wanted to create a black nation, so stop kidding yourself the fact that Haiti's population was about 500,000 strong and the Dominican Republic reached about 160,000 made us a weaker nascent republic. Despite that we got rid of them and thank god for that, but the haitians can't understand and wont understand that we dont want nothing to do with them!!!!!
From: United States
actually, arcatype, if this is the case, why the hue and cry when the poultry embargo took effect? do you really believe that the dr derives no economic benefit from cross border trade?
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 12:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Hispanolano This article is not talking about the U.S. it's talking about the Dominican Republic, you should go to a forum exclusively that deals with the illegal immigration problem that the U.S. has with Mexico. Also the last time i checked theirs plenty of illegal haitians in the United States, so keep on posting irrelevant nonsense. You remind me of jabaohaitiano pulling out the same redundant excuses.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 12:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Dreadlocks The question you got to ask yourself is what Haiti produces? Haiti has a serious deforestation problem, they cant feed themselves. They should thank the Dominican Republic, that we produce enough to feed a segment of their population. Much of the food that feeds the haitian people comes from the U.S. and other countries, they benefit more from us then the other way around when it comes to food production.
Written by: rom1804 
, 23 May 2008 12:52 PM
From: Zimbabwe
I regards to the person that said that "Haiti was a Nation of beggars"
Well to you sir I will say "At least we are not a nation of prostitutes"
From: United States
well, then , arcatype, don´t you realise that if haiti is dependent upon the dr for food and other products, that the dr is benefitting from the trade agreement? surely you do not hold the position that the products sent to haiti are gratis? somebody here is making money, and, by virtue of the multiplier effect, many other dominicans are benefitting!
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 1:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: rom1804 No! you are a nation of "self destruction"!!!!!
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 1:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Dreadlocks Why dont you focus your enegy on Haiti, leave dominicans in peace!
From: United States, New York City
"To: Dreadlocks Why dont you focus your enegy on Haiti, leave dominicans in peace!"
LOLOL..dread, you can feed this kid logic all day and in the end he'll just despise you for it...don't waste your time.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 1:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic
To: Cibaeno75 Maybe when dominicans become a minority in there own country. And we become the trash bin of the caribbean maybe you would change your mind!!!!! You have been warned.
From: United States, New York City
"To: Cibaeno75 Maybe when dominicans become a minority in there own country. And we become the trash bin of the caribbean maybe you would change your mind!!!!! You have been warned. "
Reflect on your hate towards your fellow man before it consumes you one day. It has already clouded your mind. You have been warned.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 2:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Well Cibaeno75 what's your solution regarding Haiti.
Written by: NYCDR, 23 May 2008 2:13 PM
From: United States
My GOD!!! We have spoken to death and no solution in sight.
My apologies for all of those who feel that life is unfair because you are colored.
Honestly, if you are to continue this, you are to continue forever being looked upon as a lacky...
Instead, why not be and have a solution inspite of being colored!!!
Written by: NYCDR, 23 May 2008 2:16 PM
From: United States
From one side every colored or those who feel colored (cause some have just the mentality so that you can be identified) are wineing non stop of the injustice. Well, I will point out that there are other races who are not black who are also discriminated upon.
I have seen, heard and experienced the hatred of some ethnic groups towards other races, its sad but true.
Its a handicap if you want it to be...
Haitians should stop demanding, requesting and expecting others to take care of them.. PERIOD!!!
Written by: NYCDR, 23 May 2008 2:19 PM
From: United States
Trust me I am not racist. I cannot be. My family has every shade of color, but if that is your excuse to not become or do something with your life and accept resposibility for yourself, then the non sense (a parasite ) to society you will become.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 2:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Thank You NYCDR.
From: United States, New York City
"Well Cibaeno75 what's your solution regarding Haiti."
I've already gone on and on about what to do with the haitian situation. If you must know how I feel visit some older threads.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
NYCDR a refreshing perspective on race.... but be careful some of your stateside brothers will call you a sellout and a tom and you must always be looking to kick whiteys behind for what he did.....Mr DATA and STATISTICS I consider to be a uber racist for this reason
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 3:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj, 23 May 2008 4:12 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
dreadlocks,
well, then , arcatype, don´t you realise that if haiti is dependent upon the dr for food and other products, that the dr is benefitting from the trade agreement? surely you do not hold the position that the products sent to haiti are gratis? somebody here is making money, and, by virtue of the multiplier effect, many other dominicans are benefitting!
"
This is basic high school ecomomic supply and demand, thanks for pointing it out, let me also mention Haiti is DR first trading partner and the USA next , also the trade imbalance is hugely in favor of DR.
Written by: rom1804 
, 23 May 2008 5:04 PM
From: Zimbabwe
Haiti is DR first trading partner and the USA next , also the trade imbalance is hugely in favor of DR.
NOT FOR LONG! antonioj,
Wait till they get a load of me. That's all I'm going to say.
Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 5:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The U.S. is the number one trading partner of the Dominican Republic, in fact we are the sixth most important trading partner to the United States in the hemisphere -
http://www.naita.org/docs/drmobile.pdf Written by: arcatype 
, 23 May 2008 5:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: NYCDR, 23 May 2008 7:12 PM
From: United States
AntonioJ from Canada:
"This is basic high school economics supply and demand, thanks for pointing it out, let me also mention Haiti is DR first trading partner and the USA next , also the trade imbalance is hugely in favor of DR."
Whao, let us also point out that the benefits are minimal to non existent. The TB crisis that has made us #4 in the whole American Continent due to Haiti's non existing sanitation/health dpt. The Beggars in the streets of every city in DR carrying children in blanket wraps. The crime by kids and young adults (pointed in this article). The astronomical medical expenses on young (12) girls giving birth like its out of style.
The prostitution in every beach and the Colonial City in DR. Which its appalling!!! yes, by Haitian women.
Finally, lets point out the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world but you are claiming we sell more to you than the US??? With what money power!!!
Whao, I guess I was out sick that day in High S
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Cibaeno75 is a 100 "HAITIAN" person.......................................EVERYBODY WATCH OUT
Written by: NYCDR, 23 May 2008 8:23 PM
From: United States
JR Rubirosa,
I saw his picture. He is Cibaeno. I want to believe that it is he on the picture I saw.
He has the right to his believes, no matter how disturbing they may seem to us.
: )
Written by: rom1804 
, 24 May 2008 12:20 AM
From: Zimbabwe
Finally, lets point out the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world but you are claiming we sell more to you than the US??? With what money power!!!
DUDE OUR MONEY IS WORTH MORE THAN YOURS. Yes! the Gourde is stronger than the Peso.
Written by: arcatype 
, 24 May 2008 2:43 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 8:07 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"
NYCDR, 23
Whao, let us also point out that the benefits are minimal to non existent.lets point out the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world but you are claiming we sell more to you than the US??? With what money power!!! Whao, I guess I was out sick that day in High School
"
There have been so many posting on that same subject in that forum, I would respectfully suggest that you did not only miss a day in high school , but you were in the moon. I will dare venture to say that you are either ill inform or plain dumb. That horse have been put to death.
here's a little excerpt
"
http://www.bilaterals.org/article.php3?id_article=11257Pablo Piantini, president of Anje, said each country would have to come to the negotiating table, defend their products, and define appropriate parameters for the phasing out of tariffs. He added, “An agreement with [Haiti] would be better than with the European Union, even with its additional 25 countries.”
"
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Please Please can we at least all agree that the earth is flat ?
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 8:18 AM
From: Canada, home safe
cont 2
NYCDR, 23
You can start by doing some search within dominican today under " Haiti, Dominican trade" read some introductory book on micro , macro economic and the web is a great research tool, that should assist you gathering all the right information for your next posting, or rebuttal. Please use quotation and link, remember your opinion does not make it a fact.
Good luck
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 8:30 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Contd 3 this is a resposting, note black market trade or under the table are not even included, in my opinion if included Haiti could be DR first trading, but have no figure to back it up. Clearly Haiti is DR second trading partner after the USA
Haiti is important economic market for DR
Excerpt from article Dominican today
“
In such a case, according to Homero Figueroa of Diario Libre, then Haiti would be the nation's second largest trading partner. The latest report issued by the Center for Exports and Investment (CEI-DR) shows that Dominican exports have passed the US$1.5 billion mark for the first time, a significant improvement
http://www.dr1.com/trade/articles/262/1/Haiti...“
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 8:33 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Cont4
Excerpt from Trade theory and practice By Steven Suranovic
“
The higher price received for each country's comparative advantage good would lead each country to specialize in that good. To accomplish this, labor would have to move from the comparative disadvantaged industry into the comparative advantage industry. This means that one industry goes out of business in each country. However, because the model assumes full employment and costless mobility of labor, all of these workers are immediately gainfully employed in the other industry.(
“
From the site of international trade theory and policy
http://internationalecon.com/Trade/Tch40/T40-... From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
what about the welfare of these kids.....and I am tired of them throwing wet sponges at my car
Written by: arcatype 
, 24 May 2008 12:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 1:41 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Mr Arctype
The U.S. is the most significant trading partner to the Dominican Republic, we dont benefit from Haiti. Antonioj take more pride in your country what is it that you are trying to prove, you are repeating yourself you people are so annoying -
http://dr1.com/trade/categories/Trading-Partners/North-America/ "
I am sorry this is the last straw, serioulsly I have no time to educate you.
1.Your link does not contradict what I have posted.
2. Take more pride of my country ( off the subject, do you mean " take care" ?)
excerpt of previous posting
"Actually I am 101% Haitian one of these few lights skin one, I am proud to say I carry polish blood and the blood of these courageous slavesman that founded our nation, born and raise in Jeremie ,ti papa. (does that sound like someone who is not proud to you ?
"
3.My goal was to share that important information that some us apparently may not be aware. IF YOU CAN NOT STAND THE TRUTH, find it annoying that is your problem
Written by: arcatype 
, 24 May 2008 1:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haiti can't even feed itself mr. denial good bye!!!!!
Written by: arcatype 
, 24 May 2008 4:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic
From: United States
antonioj, you will quite possibly be disilluioned by the exchange with some of the above writers, becuase the forum should be changed to DUMBINICAN TODAY. i have never seen a forum for exchanged of ideas which is so rife with people who argue solely from an emotional standpoint, with no clue to what they are saying. their peripheral cheerleader is a dimwit called gouletcolonial, who despises facts and figures, and makes weak attempts to ridicule people who believe that assertions should stand up to factual scrutiny. it makes absolutely no sense arguing a point with thëse types.if they do not understand you ,they either try to shoo you away, or they attempt to insult you. but, as a sage man once observed ¨where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise. the sad point is that they pontificate on matters of which they do not have even basic knowledge, such as international trade and economics, and attempt to resolve difference of viewpoint by way of insult. pathetic, really
From: United States, New York City
" the sad point is that they pontificate on matters of which they do not have even basic knowledge, such as international trade and economics, and attempt to resolve difference of viewpoint by way of insult. pathetic, really"
LOL...don't say I never warned you..
Written by: antonioj, 24 May 2008 7:54 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Mr Dreadlock
antonioj, you will quite possibly be disilluioned by the exchange with some of the above writers, becuase the forum should be changed to DUMBINICAN TODAY.
"
Excellent posting thank you for it. Indeed pathetic and sad (dialogue des sourds)
Written by: arcatype 
, 24 May 2008 9:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
from my previous post I cannot be clearer....."Dominican Haitian relations are more complicated by far and require the outside observer to acknowledge this and that both parties are treated fairly and humanely in these disputes....outsiders;walk a mile in their shoes.....before you criticize either party"..........having said that I recommend" Dred the Red" as an outsider follow this advice.... instead of calling Dominicans dumb...if you think so then go back to one of those other forums...this original subject was abused children was it not ?.....please leave me out of your bickering on this subject
From: United States
Arcatype i agree with you 100% .let the Haitians deal with their missfortune, do not sent any more dark blue kids to my country.We need White intelligent humans being not BLACKS speaking Kreyole.
From: United States
and i guess you are an insider, Goulet? you are the wandering minstrel without a country, a pestilence upon the hemisphere without a home. you go only where the easy money is. to those of you who are of significance, let me remind you that the internet is an international phenomenon, and that you do your country a global disservice by posting nonsense ideas. just like the football hooligans from england do that country a disservice by tarnishing the image of the decent english people, you give the world the impression that dominicans are a bunch of ignoramus losers not worthy of consideration. when some moron refers to haiti as a land of beggars, and such a comment is read by some guy in hong kong, he will reflexively furrow his brow and wonder about the source of such idiocy. when this nonsense finds support in further postings, then people of good conscience and clear thinking will form negative opinions about the intellectual resources available in the country. gouletcolonial has
From: United States
the luxury of making silly statements, as the internationally realised consensus is that he is a misguided relic. what is the excuse for people such as carbelk, who opines that he only wants intelligent white people in the country? maybe he is being influenced too severely by the aforementioned goulet!
From: United States, New York City
"you are the wandering minstrel without a country, a pestilence upon the hemisphere without a home. "
LOLOLOLOLOLOL...I almost spit my drink out of my nose while reading that one..
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
From: United States
ANNAKARINA,
Coming off with insult is surely not the way to start engaging me in any exchange of information or even suggestion when I did not insult you and honestly you do not want to go that route. So I hope this insult was innocently simply humor on your part thus I will give it the benefit of the doubt that it was not intended as an insult, but if it was and like I said. It is not the way to start with me.
However Lautaro, on to better dialogues. As much as I know of Juan Bosch, I know he repeatedly had shown interest in adopting many of Trujillo's views especially when it come to dealing with Haitian related issues in DR. Regardless how democratically liberal many may have perceived him to be or have been and that he was only to Dominican issues that were Nationally pertaining to just Dominican personal issues, but as to issues in relations to Haiti or DR's foreign policy toward Haiti is a known fact that he was racist and wanted to embrace the old platform of Trujillo
Written by: Lautaro, 26 May 2008 6:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Again, Hispanolano (or should it be Quisqueyano from now on?), I demand to be shown proof of any "racist" policy of his, because I find your accusation to be very hard to believe, specially were one to consider that one of the reasons that behind the coup d'etat against him on 1963 was the clause that he established on the new constitution, which established the equality of rights between the children born from established families and natural children (or as they're commonly refered, the bastards or "niños de la calle") born outside the marriage in the enjoyment of the material heritage of the common parent. A man establishing such a egalitarian measure deserves the benefit of the doubt, in my humble opinion.
Written by: arcatype 
, 26 May 2008 6:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
From: United States
ARC-A-TYPE,
To show you how racist, partial and biased you are which I did not have to tell you for you or the rest of the room to know it is true you are a true racist. You went out of your way to post a link about Haiti's Economy (which I could say was a great move and understood the intent) yet or however you failed due to the fact that this same link also gives you information of DR's economy as well which you did not provide for people to have done to comparison themselves, but I will do it for you, you lazy excuse of a racist being. People, all you have to do is add the country's name at the end of that link such as:
THE LINKS
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Haitihttp://www.heritage.org/research/..../country.cfm?id=DominicanRepublicWritten by: arcatype 
, 26 May 2008 6:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Wow like if people can't find out for themselves, statistic's of all the countries are there. And my point supports what i've said from the beginning!!!!!
Written by: , 26 May 2008 6:56 PM
From:
Yes Lautaro,
All these changes in work that he has done were indeed for the Dominican people and were not in terms of general equality as though he gave rights to Haitian Migrants or immigrants. They were all as expected for the actual Dominican natives.
In that sense I agree and I suppose that he was the most democratic liberal in DR's History of Presidents. Ironically, my mother herself was a fan of his when it came to Dominican Inland affairs and interests he prevailed, but not to the causes that pertains to equality of all as to say he had better policies toward neighboring Haiti especially when he and Francois Duvalier had their own clash which had incited him to once again even wanting to invade Haiti and funny and weird enough, Francois Duvalier had managed to get the International support on his behalf and side.
It is recorded in History Lautaro or perhaps maybe Dominicans view him a lot more highly than the rest of the International body which is quite probabl
Written by: arcatype 
, 26 May 2008 7:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Yes call everybody a racist that's the only accusation that's popular for haitians to justify their miserable state of affairs. But remember that haitians have been historically racist, and today you are still the same!!!!!
From: United States
LAUTARO,
A more tense and confrontational situation developed in April 1963 between Duvalier and Dominican Republic president Juan Bosch Gaviño. Duvalier and Bosch were confirmed adversaries; the Dominican president provided asylum and direct support to Haitian exiles who plotted against the Duvalier regime. Duvalier ordered the Presidential Guard to occupy the Dominican chancery in Pétionville in an effort to apprehend an army officer believed to have been involved in an unsuccessful attempt to kidnap the dictator's son, Jean-Claude Duvalier, and daughter, Simone Duvalier.
From: United States
The Dominican Republic reacted with outrage and indignation. Bosch publicly threatened to invade Haiti, and he ordered army units to the frontier. Although observers throughout the world anticipated military action that would lead to Duvalier's downfall, they saw events turn in the Haitian tyrant's favor. Dominican military commanders, who found Bosch's political leanings too far to the left, expressed little support for an invasion of Haiti. Bosch, because he could not count on his military, decided to let go of his dream to overthrow the neighboring dictatorship. Instead, he allowed the matter to be settled by emissaries of the Organization of American States (OAS).
Written by: Lautaro, 26 May 2008 7:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
You have to consider the fact that, at the moment of the clash between Duvalier and Bosch, the latter was already being considered persona non grata by the yankees, which were seeing with increasing suspicion the proto-socialist measures that he was carrying on (like the one mentioned above). Duvalier, although a racist bastard son-of-a-b*tch-a-la-Mugabe, was a favorite to the western world's eyes, because of the crackdown that he made against the progressive sectors of the haitian society (haven't you heard about the grim fate of one Jacques Stephen Alexis, one of the best writers in haitian history and descendant of Dessalines?). That was the essential difference between them, my friend.
From: United States
ARC-A-TYPE,
You do not learn, do you? There is a major difference between Revolutionary racism and Discriminative Racism. In fact many will tell you that what you consider to be racism in Haiti is more what is called Classism.
Revolutionary Racism is racism toward the known dominant group of people suppressing, oppressing another group of people thus the occupiers, conquerors and colonists White France or Spain which Haitian Liberators wanted to rid Haiti of.
Discriminative Racism is racism solemnly based primarily on one's skin as to deem them inferior or less than human and prevent such discriminated race or group to attain even basic legal rights or to engage in a genocidal campaign like Rafael Leonardis Trujillo and others.
Classism is when a portion of a certain society is believed to be or looked down upon another class as to not being educated, rich or as well mannered thus as Elite groups in such a society who are believed to hold power due to Wealth and stature
From: United States
Exactly Lautaro,
Although Duvalier went under the notion he was pro-black and went under the pretext he was for the mass, there could not have been a greater hypocrite as he. From what I have read and studied about both Bosch and Duvalier, thus I see exists a great paradox between the two men.
Between Juan Bosch and Francois Duvalier although I must admittedly say the difference was Juan Bosch loved the Dominican people as Duvalier did not but wanted to have the outside society or the Haitian mass to believe that he did love them (The Haitian people) when most of his Government catered to the Elite Mulatto or just the Elites period. I would say the two were parallel nemesis-enemies, but I may be wrong with that analogy that perhaps they were just enemies.
Suffice to say, a president may seem liberal to the cause of his own internal native Country's Issues but not (what I would refer to as) a Globalist Liberal or in terms of Foreign affairs or issues.
From: United States
Yes indeed Lautaro,
I have heard of Jacque Stephen Alexis. Wow, are you sure you are not Haitian Lautaro lol? I have to tell you, you are always a worthy debater in discussion those issues. I am in shock that a Dominican can know as much as you do about the entire Island and yet you have not limited your studies or views to the norms of comfort of racist Dominican Republic like most others do.
You are a one Dominican I would really wish to get involve in Dominican Politic that even if you were to be or have been a racist (Not saying you are, were or will be) I would much rather be able to deal with you given the educational knowledge you have you would not have been and arrogant racist if you were racist. Where in DR have you conducted your educational Study?
My entire life is devoted to study the history of the entire Island as I am of both Independent Nations as reflected on my Pseudo online names.
Always a pleasure Lautaro,
BohionoYoSoy
Written by: Lautaro, 26 May 2008 8:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Indeed, it´s a refreshing thing to have these kind of discussions from time to time, mr. Quisqueyano. As a final note in my defense of Bosch, I can only say that he couldn´t have acted differently, since the country was recently out of an antihaitian dictatorship, so it´s a given that he would have faced a lot of opposition had he acted out of the existing foreign policy of the country. In fact, one of the reasons that explained his easy electoral victory against the oligarchs of the UCN is that he made a pact with the trujillistic sectors of the civil society and the armed forces (Grupo de San Cristobal), contrary to what the UCN wanted to do, that is, to bring them all to justice. Although he didn't agree with those trujillistas at the ideological level, in all, I have to say that he made a grave mistake by allying himself with them, because they ended up stabbing him on the back at the end of the day (by plotting his eventual overthrow with the yankees and the Catholic Church).
Written by: arcatype 
, 26 May 2008 8:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Sure i dont learn? look who's talking. Revolution????? the only vital revolution was declared in 1844.
Written by: antonioj, 26 May 2008 9:38 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Mr hispanoloyosoy, listen you do not have to respond tit for tat, there is a point you should conclude that, if it really worth continuing a debate then you should move on.
1.Are you learning anything ?
2.Is the debator fair and balance ?
3.Is he off the subject ?
4.Knowledge or lack of it regarding the subject
I am willing to learn, be fair, have a balance and open mind. One person among others, I look up to, in the forum is Mr Lautaro his argument are well articulated, respectful, well founded, and base on fact not on emotions.
Watch out, just because you disagree with someone does not necessarily make him a racist. We all have some degree of prejudice, the problem is when we act on them and believe in them. Alot of the Dominicans poster strike me as being anti something or have alot of prejudices pass unto to them.
Written by: arcatype 
, 27 May 2008 12:00 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This is the problem that some seem to ignore the threat to our stability as a nation, having Haiti as a neighbor is a threat to the Dominican Republic's sovereignty and developement. Haiti can't feed itself. - <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="
http://www.youtube.com/v/xkCcDqYh...."></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="
http://www.youtube.com/v/xkCcDqYhoTA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
From: United States
Goulet, i notice where you informed the forum that you once volunteered to help someone.. do you mean recently, during your adolescent years, or what? in any event, the medal is in the mail.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Instead of shooting your mouth of why dont you volunteer to help some human beings like I did my position as I said is very clear DO NO HARM...this young man I am proud to call my friend is making a great sacrafice in both countries ....................you........POMPOUS FOOL...
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....orm-Haitian-children..........PS. I am surprised Mugabe gave you the time off to be making trouble here when there is so much redistribution to do in Zimbabwe
From: United States
you cannot help but do harm, goulet. you are misery incarnate. you no longer anger me, though, as it is consensually agreed that you are an undesirable..
"US$1.B in renewable energy, biofuel projects start in June"
SANTO DOMINGO.- National Energy Commission president Arístides Fernandez said several projects, already approved and funded which top US$1.5 billion, assure renewable energy and biofuel production as of next month.
He said they only await the publication of the Special Regulation of Renewable Energy Sources Development Law.
“This is a priority for Dominican Republic which has president Leonel Fernandez’s initiative and commitment and we’re convinced of their immediate viability, so we guaranteed the country it will happen as of next month.”
Fernandez said he’s excited with the President’s confidence “in our institution and its competent technical personnel to attract those national and foreign investments tow the power sector to produce electricity and biofuels.”
The official said starting in 2009 there’ll be more than 3 billions dollars in total investments in renewable energy sources.
donde esta Cibaeno75??? aqui tienes parte de lo que te estaba diciendo en el otro articulo.
:(
I dont see these foreign gov't taking in any of the haitians and helping them in what is an obvious alarming condition (to say the least). Haiti needs the help of other gov'ts that have a vast amount of money and resources. DR is not able to handle such a task!!!
0000
They are commodities bought and sold ... sexually exploited, enslaved, tortured, and often murdered ... in a free market and in bourgeois democracy that supplies liberty and justice.
0000
It's good for CAFTA.
0000
Because the Dominican and foreign bourgeoisie in DR say they want the children and more of them because children yield a high rate of profit, especially when exploited savagely, and an influential sector of the Dominican people [like the US people] always, without fail, grovels before the Dominican bourgeoisie ... so-called "patriotism" ... no matter how sick the demands of the bourgeoisie are.
Like in the USA, we say "We got let the kids in the country because our big boss man says he wants them, but we still love human rights, liberty, and justice. After all, our elections show we have a beautiful bourgeois democracy or a democracy for the bourgeoisie."
The bourgeoisie spits of the Dominican people, saying the Haitians are a lot cheaper to exploit; so, who cares what the low-class Dominicans want?
The Dominicans who are cast aside by the bourgeoisie quietly take the contempt of the bourgeoisie under the maxim "Give to the master, what belongs to the master."
Obviously, the Haitian need a nice revolution. But the US imperialists are now sending into Haiti a group of savage and animalistic US peacekeepers to prevent a revolution. Instead of bowing to the US imperialists, the DR should be promoting revolution in Haiti.
:)
Bourgeoisie (RP /?b??.?w??'zi/, GA /?bu(r).?w?'zi/) is a classification used in analyzing human societies to describe a social class of people who are in the upper or merchant class, whose status or power comes from employment, education, and wealth as opposed to aristocratic origin. Petite bourgeoisie (also petty bourgeoisie) is used to describe the class below the bourgeoisie but above the proletariat. thankyou wikepidia
for those who dont know...
i had no choice but to look up the word. lol
You cannot stop at a major intersection in the Capital without being barraged by these little lost souls. And the crazy part is you have Amet and PN at the same corners just turning their heads the other way. You want to feel sorry for them but by giving them money it only brings more the next time.
Bottom line is that Haiti should be preventing these children from getting out and the DR should prevent them from getting in.
This is not the worlds responsibility it is Haiti's and they need to get their act together rather then being a nation of beggars.Today is a good day to start!
I am not that pessimistic in my outlook of life.
People immediately jump into the racist card...its not racist...its just like you said its their problem not ours...period
you must be nuts, that is a lot of nonsense product of your sick mind, just who you think is going
to believe such idiots comments?
Or set up camps /detention facilities where there is food and shelter.
What are they doing with the facilities they used for the Pan American games?
The DR should take a page out of the book that the US used when Castro sent us all his undesirables. Watch Scarface to remind you
oooo
GC will show the Canadian welfare office a hard copy of above post to justify continuation of his monthly crazy check.
Either way they are in danger from getting run over ,abuse and the elements.
Haiti is important to the DR and has become as Mexico is to the US.
I just don't beleive there is an easy answer to this problem.
I guess my final thought is all of us whom have had fortunate lives should be thankful and not take anything for granted.
oooo
Please, don't get sentimental over Dominican-Haitian slave trade because today's slaveholders don't discriminate on the basis of age (child or adult), national origin (Haitian or Dominican), gender (male or female or others).
Here's an example, about HALF A MILLION Dominicans (that's national origin), women (that's age and gender), have been exported (that's LARGELY human trafficking) from the DR to be exploited in the international sex trade, especially in USA, Canada, and western Europe.
Nobody wants Haitians for either mid-level or upscale prostitutes outside of the DR, because Haitians are presumed to be infected. Haiians prostitutes serve as streetwalkers until they and their tricks drop dead from infection.
So, what Dominican bourgeoisie does to Haitians whatever the age, it also does to Dominicans, perhaps on a larger scale.
The doctors found that GC was a grabber and therefore he suffered from grabbism.
A grabber takes without consent whatever is in the hands of a person near the grabber -- whether the person near the grabber has a piece of paper, pencil, hammer, or penis in his hand.
The grabber grabs it.
When GC first disclosed that he was a grabber, his application for a crazy check from the government was turned down, because the doctors believed GC's disease was too common.
Then GC declared that he was bourgeois or a cappie because he's a grabber.
The doctors immediately gave him his crazy check.
Haiti needs to have there own CESFRONT to combat undocumented haitians. I dont think there is a conspiracy theory that haitians want to invade the DR . DR is chugging and alot of its progress has alot to do with cheap labour where they return home for christmas and brag how they've mean millions of pesos on the other side. Just the same when poor dominicans working 24/7 in the USA to save money to go back home to brag and show off. Sad but this is the reality and I agree that the haitian government needs to step up. Re-instate the haitian army to secure the borders. Jander I dont know if these kids look in top shape but they need to be some sort of control programs to get them back home. I have given a few pesos to some and when I speak creole to them they brighten up but are still weary. Some these kids are dominicans too..not all panhandlers are haitian. Arcatype, please stop making a fool at of urself..you get the cone over head and go sit in the corner.
000
God, the boss of the good divine beings, says when at least two people, rather than only one, ideologically stomp a horrible reactionary, the reactionary typically recoups and reforms faster.
So, please, stomp as much as you ike.
0000000000
GC first says Dreadlocks is black. Oh, lord!
Then GC says Dread in red.
Next, GC will accuse Dread on being for the Boston Celtics.
But in some countries, the human trafficking involves cute little babies.
oooo
http://fe4.news.sp1.yahoo.com/s/a...._ylt=AgMNdDRAkzw4EtNWkNG4fVe3IxIF
"Guatemala's attorney general said Wednesday he has annulled 15 pending adoptions to U.S. couples after finding evidence of fraud or other irregularities."
"Attorney General Baudilio Portillo suspended all of Guatemala's 2,286 pending adoption cases in early May to investigate them."
"It was not clear if the U.S. couples affected had been notified."
"Guatemala has been plagued by allegations of adoption fraud, including claims that babies are stolen from their birth parents or even sold by poor birth mothers."
0000
US COUPLE: I bought the baby on the free market. It's mine.
GUATEMALAN AG: The baby isn't a thing, it's a being.
US COUPLE: What?
There are freaks who have a thing for babies.
Then there is also an informal, cheaper and fast-track procedure that consists of killing the real mother and father, if necessary, and selling the baby directly to the US "couple."
The informal procedure is increasingly favored because the US "couple" sometimes doesn't have to travel to Guatemala.
"
This is a new low, very hard to beleive such a commentary coming from you, estimado primo why so much hate,?? you have strike me as someone with some education, that will think first and analyze, please keep some fyour passion under control. Deep down after you remove the smog Dominicans are good people so are the Haitians.However bad crops exist on both sides. For Haitian that do not want to believe me see border country like zimbabwe and South Africa. Mr Arctype I hope in future you can do your best to keep it civilize and respectful.Your figure of 3% mulatto is wrong, misleading statement "getting rid of blacks" try population control.
please let's us elevate the discussion to a higher level here.
I would be interested to hear from our distinguish Mr Lautaro on that subject.
"Haiti is not going to change unless foreign investors pour heavy capital there, to build an infrastructure that's going to last. Forget about the small elite in Haiti they can't do, and they dont want to do nothing for their people. In a society that has segregated it self from the majority of it's population dont expect any miracle to occur, just expect a marathon of coup d'etats. I think Haiti is the title holder of the most overthrown goverment marathon in the world. The U.N. is there and i just dont get the level of corruption in that country, it's almost cartoonish and unreal.
"
I see you've been reading my post. Sorry I don't sign autographs. What constructive response can you type rather than rant garbage. Please leave personal insults of family out of it. Geez, you scums from the states are worse than the tigueres in Santo Domingo. Lacking morals and have no limits.
Jabao, you let certain posters get under your skin and as a result you post comments that end up insulting others beside your intended targets. It has become more then obvious that certain people on here are mental midgets. May I humbly suggest to you not to stoop to their level and let them grovel in the mud alone.
The problem continues to be the children left behind that should be taken care off by their parents, their own gov't, the foreign govts and the catholic priests who voist the racist card whenever we want to defend our own.
Well. that is the solution,
is not a matter of scums from the states Mr. JabaoHaitian,
Its a matter of taking care of your own.
The best thing I suggest for Haiti is to annex their country to one of these foreign countries or the catholic church (make you good christians in the way) , those who do marches and bring the press about the badly treated haitians in DR.
See how quick these foreign gov'ts and religious institutions come to help you out of your need!
:(
because the blame game does not get you far...the get off the wining, blame game and get to it is what really works...
Hi but I'm not even debating. My position is well known. As I'm aware that others beside Dominicans read these threads I wanted it to be made known that there are Dominicans that not only are ashamed by what happened in 1937 but who will condemn publicly anyone who would applaud such a thing. I'm refferring of course to the Haitian massacre of 1937 perpetrated by the Trujillo regime. It's disgusting that someone would pick up that incident as a banner.
I don't give a certain rodent's behind if you think I'm Dominican or not. I'd be loath to share any type of affiliation with someone such as yourself in any event. And indeed what Dessalines' troops did was wrong but that does not justify anything.
are you one or 2 people. its confusing??
are you one or 2 people. its confusing??"
I don't know how that's possible but I can assure you that I would never post under such a name.
I just clicked on the other individual's name and no such thing happened to me. Try again NYCDR. The glitch seems to be on your end.
its the system
Trujillo un despota and Rubirosa un exajerador embustero y para colmo lambon.
I dont consider these people in the definition of what a man is!!!
The quality of the blog have been deteriorating we need more Lautaro, Cibaneo75, gouletcolonial, among others. I want to remind Mr JabaoHaitien not all Dominicans do carry these extreme views. The extremist are usually more vocal, and do not reflect the view of the silent majority, it's fine to hear them, let them expose themselves, we are not living an innocent and perfect island or world for that matter.
Let me quote a famous Haitian saying "la meprise vaux mieux que la reponse"
"I see you've been reading my post. Sorry I don't sign autographs. What constructive response can you type rather than rant garbage"
"To some Rafael Leonidas Trujillo was a nationalist el benefactor de la patria or the benefactor of the homeland. In Haiti they worship Jean Jacques Dessalines, Henri Christophe, Jean Pierre Boyer, Toussaint Louverture they are considered assassins in the Dominican Republic. Some people's heroes are others people's villains"
Wrong again most Haitians (90%) do not share the view of Dessalines or condone his action only the extremist do. Yes Indeed Haitians worship Toussaint, he's an Hero not only for Haiti but for the world. If the independence of Haiti was done by Toussaint we would not have a conversation right now, go dig and do alittle bit more research. France took away the best hope Toussaint and penalize Haiti with a heavy debt these 2 actions were pivotal in determining the future or separation of the island.
"Toussaint Louverture was not our guy" I will differ on that, the man was a consensus builder do you know what, "louverture " mean ? opening, abierto.
"Haiti was inhabited mainly by former slaves and a few mulattos, that's the difference. "
seem a little bit off the subject here, any ways thanks for your good posting
Until she spoke, no Christian nation had abolished Negro slavery.
Until she spoke, no Christian nation had given to the world an organized effort to abolish slavery.
Until she spoke, the slave ship, followed by hungry sharks, greedy to devour the dead and dying slaves flung overboard to feed them, ploughed in peace the South Atlantic, painting the sea with the Negro’s blood.
Until she spoke, the slave trade was sanctioned by all the Christian nations of the world, and our land of liberty and light included.
Men made fortunes by this infernal traffic, and were esteemed as good Christians, and the standing types and representations of the Savior of the World.
Until Haiti spoke, the church was silent, and the pulpit was dumb.
Slave-traders lived and slave-traders died.
Funeral sermons were preached over them, and of them it was said that they died in the triumphs of the Christian faith and went to heaven among the just.
Frederick D.
Mr acartype
To: Antonioj Well if the majority of the people living in your country were getting killed by a foreigner who's intentions were not in their interest. Then you are violating their rights.
"
No one can disagree with that very good point, however it depends on which perspective, keep in mind that DR and Haiti were in their infancy, and not yet completely defined as a nation during that period of history, I think your point will make much more sense , if your were to direct it toward the invaders (french,spain) and the plight of the Taino people.
From: Dominican Republic
To: Antonioj Perspective and reality are two different things, destiny was the last result.
"
SO TRUE,
Mr Lautaro, nice to hear from you finally, keep your commentary coming. I could not agree more with what you said and it's evident throughout history. Mr Lautaro what happened to the army that was stationned at the border(cesfront), I saw the Haitians kids on youtube they seem to be wandering freely.
Some positive steps, that can help
0. Resolve, and give amnesty to 2nd generation born, including humane repatratiation.
1.DR authority should take seriously, and upheld their immigration law.
2. Willingness to assist Haiti in a meaningfull way, specially in the frontier area.
3. Stop looking at Haiti, your first commercial partner as a dumping ground for your products.
4. Create a free trade zone area.
I am not sure this is the concern of Leonel on his third term, can you comment why not ??
More than 10,000 Mozambicans have fled from South Africa to escape xenophobic attacks that have killed at least 42 people.
Leonardo Boby, a senior Mozambican migration official, said 10,047 people had returned home in buses provided by the government. "The number is likely to increase in the next days as long as violence unfolds in South Africa," he added.
"If you cant feed yourself dont have children that you can't take care of." said Arc-a-Type.
Yeah okay Arc - a - type,
Say that very same statement to many Latinos living in many latin communities here in the United States who are having children left and right by the tough of a finger faster than horses and mules do, dropping out of school and living in poverty themselves and are committing gang related grand theft auto and robbery here in the US in the statistically proven rate of 75%. I never here a hispanic person come forward and tell them anything about family planing of any kinds or sorts.
But hey anyway, anything you can say or do to justify or to mask your already prejudicial discriminative views of Haitians I suppose. Sure... racist Arc - A - Type.
Lastly AntonioJ,
You statements above are the primary solutions to help deal with this great social conflict between the two respective Nations. I suspect you are not Dominicans and if you are, you are about the third Dominican on here aside myself to have directly or indirectly suggested such a realistic probable and feasible remedy to the situation both Countries face. whether you meant it in a humorous way nor do I know if there are any hidden racist divisive motivation behind it, but it is quite a great suggestive approach the politicians of my dear both Haiti and DR can start engaging into for the sake of a harmonious Hispaniola. Lautaro and NY4LIFE are the only individuals you could engage in a more intellectual impartial dialogues with on the subject of DR and Haiti, thus do not waste your breath with most of the other ones on here and that goes for both some ignorant Haitians and Dominicans who seem to not even know what they are talking about.
I applaud you for it!
Ah we just may have a new intelligent prospect poster on here, thus I say welcome to AnnaKarina. I will read that book. However you say the author is Dr. Juan Bosch as in the former DR President or a totally different Dr Juan Bosch? He himself was quite racist towards Haitians whom may have sought to adopt Trujillo's method... I will read it anyway.
The last posting is today's news from South Africa, but that can well be a future article from Dominican Republic. It is important to point out that, contrary to what haitians are always saying, this is problem not about race but resources. And the domincan people, not the army or the police, are the ones will react to massive inflow of haitians.
"
Good posting Carlo diaz I read the article myself and I was outrage, DR is way more civilize than these nations. I think resources play a greater part, however you can not disgard discrimination outright.
Mr Arcatype you it the nail right on the head, and I agree with you 101 percent, population control is thru education of the masses, people living on the country side will have alot of children and think it's given by God ?? figure this one out. The well off people in Haiti do not have a lot of offsprings, however the poor do, they should attached population control as a prerequisition to any help given to Haiti. One child r
Actually I am 101% Haitian one of these few lights skin one, I am proud to say I carry polish blood and the blood of these courageous slavesman that founded our nation, born and raise in Jeremie ,ti papa.
Can you show me proof about Juan Bosch, the most democratic president on the history of the DR, being a racist? As I told you earlier (and apparently, you didn't listen) the only quarrel that Bosch had with Haiti would be with Papa Doc's regime, and he had all the reason in the world to react the way he did, seeing as how embassies are considered to be foreign territory, and Duvalier's goons attacked the dominican embassy on Port-Au-Prince for it granting asylum to the political opponents of that regime that were fleeing that dictatorship's wrath. An attack on a foreign embassy is usually considered an act of war, didn't they teach you that at the US Army, Hispanolano?
i don't know in what part of the world u live. if u r in the usa, walk into any public library to the "america's section", u'll find countless books by different honest intellectuals with various opinions about the dominicano-haitian issues. it pays to read.
Juan_de_eeuu@hotmail.com
LOL...then they'll try to figure out how he loosened his restraints..lol
Well to you sir I will say "At least we are not a nation of prostitutes"
LOLOL..dread, you can feed this kid logic all day and in the end he'll just despise you for it...don't waste your time.
Reflect on your hate towards your fellow man before it consumes you one day. It has already clouded your mind. You have been warned.
My apologies for all of those who feel that life is unfair because you are colored.
Honestly, if you are to continue this, you are to continue forever being looked upon as a lacky...
Instead, why not be and have a solution inspite of being colored!!!
I have seen, heard and experienced the hatred of some ethnic groups towards other races, its sad but true.
Its a handicap if you want it to be...
Haitians should stop demanding, requesting and expecting others to take care of them.. PERIOD!!!
I've already gone on and on about what to do with the haitian situation. If you must know how I feel visit some older threads.
dreadlocks,
well, then , arcatype, don´t you realise that if haiti is dependent upon the dr for food and other products, that the dr is benefitting from the trade agreement? surely you do not hold the position that the products sent to haiti are gratis? somebody here is making money, and, by virtue of the multiplier effect, many other dominicans are benefitting!
"
This is basic high school ecomomic supply and demand, thanks for pointing it out, let me also mention Haiti is DR first trading partner and the USA next , also the trade imbalance is hugely in favor of DR.
NOT FOR LONG! antonioj,
Wait till they get a load of me. That's all I'm going to say.
"This is basic high school economics supply and demand, thanks for pointing it out, let me also mention Haiti is DR first trading partner and the USA next , also the trade imbalance is hugely in favor of DR."
Whao, let us also point out that the benefits are minimal to non existent. The TB crisis that has made us #4 in the whole American Continent due to Haiti's non existing sanitation/health dpt. The Beggars in the streets of every city in DR carrying children in blanket wraps. The crime by kids and young adults (pointed in this article). The astronomical medical expenses on young (12) girls giving birth like its out of style.
The prostitution in every beach and the Colonial City in DR. Which its appalling!!! yes, by Haitian women.
Finally, lets point out the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world but you are claiming we sell more to you than the US??? With what money power!!!
Whao, I guess I was out sick that day in High S
I saw his picture. He is Cibaeno. I want to believe that it is he on the picture I saw.
He has the right to his believes, no matter how disturbing they may seem to us.
: )
DUDE OUR MONEY IS WORTH MORE THAN YOURS. Yes! the Gourde is stronger than the Peso.
NYCDR, 23
Whao, let us also point out that the benefits are minimal to non existent.lets point out the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world but you are claiming we sell more to you than the US??? With what money power!!! Whao, I guess I was out sick that day in High School
"
There have been so many posting on that same subject in that forum, I would respectfully suggest that you did not only miss a day in high school , but you were in the moon. I will dare venture to say that you are either ill inform or plain dumb. That horse have been put to death.
here's a little excerpt
"
http://www.bilaterals.org/article.php3?id_article=11257
Pablo Piantini, president of Anje, said each country would have to come to the negotiating table, defend their products, and define appropriate parameters for the phasing out of tariffs. He added, “An agreement with [Haiti] would be better than with the European Union, even with its additional 25 countries.”
"
NYCDR, 23
You can start by doing some search within dominican today under " Haiti, Dominican trade" read some introductory book on micro , macro economic and the web is a great research tool, that should assist you gathering all the right information for your next posting, or rebuttal. Please use quotation and link, remember your opinion does not make it a fact.
Good luck
Haiti is important economic market for DR
Excerpt from article Dominican today
“
In such a case, according to Homero Figueroa of Diario Libre, then Haiti would be the nation's second largest trading partner. The latest report issued by the Center for Exports and Investment (CEI-DR) shows that Dominican exports have passed the US$1.5 billion mark for the first time, a significant improvement http://www.dr1.com/trade/articles/262/1/Haiti...
“
Excerpt from Trade theory and practice By Steven Suranovic
“
The higher price received for each country's comparative advantage good would lead each country to specialize in that good. To accomplish this, labor would have to move from the comparative disadvantaged industry into the comparative advantage industry. This means that one industry goes out of business in each country. However, because the model assumes full employment and costless mobility of labor, all of these workers are immediately gainfully employed in the other industry.(
“
From the site of international trade theory and policy
http://internationalecon.com/Trade/Tch40/T40-...
The U.S. is the most significant trading partner to the Dominican Republic, we dont benefit from Haiti. Antonioj take more pride in your country what is it that you are trying to prove, you are repeating yourself you people are so annoying - http://dr1.com/trade/categories/Trading-Partners/North-America/
"
I am sorry this is the last straw, serioulsly I have no time to educate you.
1.Your link does not contradict what I have posted.
2. Take more pride of my country ( off the subject, do you mean " take care" ?)
excerpt of previous posting
"Actually I am 101% Haitian one of these few lights skin one, I am proud to say I carry polish blood and the blood of these courageous slavesman that founded our nation, born and raise in Jeremie ,ti papa. (does that sound like someone who is not proud to you ?
"
3.My goal was to share that important information that some us apparently may not be aware. IF YOU CAN NOT STAND THE TRUTH, find it annoying that is your problem
LOL...don't say I never warned you..
Mr Dreadlock
antonioj, you will quite possibly be disilluioned by the exchange with some of the above writers, becuase the forum should be changed to DUMBINICAN TODAY.
"
Excellent posting thank you for it. Indeed pathetic and sad (dialogue des sourds)
LOLOLOLOLOLOL...I almost spit my drink out of my nose while reading that one..
Coming off with insult is surely not the way to start engaging me in any exchange of information or even suggestion when I did not insult you and honestly you do not want to go that route. So I hope this insult was innocently simply humor on your part thus I will give it the benefit of the doubt that it was not intended as an insult, but if it was and like I said. It is not the way to start with me.
However Lautaro, on to better dialogues. As much as I know of Juan Bosch, I know he repeatedly had shown interest in adopting many of Trujillo's views especially when it come to dealing with Haitian related issues in DR. Regardless how democratically liberal many may have perceived him to be or have been and that he was only to Dominican issues that were Nationally pertaining to just Dominican personal issues, but as to issues in relations to Haiti or DR's foreign policy toward Haiti is a known fact that he was racist and wanted to embrace the old platform of Trujillo
ARC-A-TYPE,
To show you how racist, partial and biased you are which I did not have to tell you for you or the rest of the room to know it is true you are a true racist. You went out of your way to post a link about Haiti's Economy (which I could say was a great move and understood the intent) yet or however you failed due to the fact that this same link also gives you information of DR's economy as well which you did not provide for people to have done to comparison themselves, but I will do it for you, you lazy excuse of a racist being. People, all you have to do is add the country's name at the end of that link such as:
THE LINKS
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Haiti
http://www.heritage.org/research/..../country.cfm?id=DominicanRepublic
Yes Lautaro,
All these changes in work that he has done were indeed for the Dominican people and were not in terms of general equality as though he gave rights to Haitian Migrants or immigrants. They were all as expected for the actual Dominican natives.
In that sense I agree and I suppose that he was the most democratic liberal in DR's History of Presidents. Ironically, my mother herself was a fan of his when it came to Dominican Inland affairs and interests he prevailed, but not to the causes that pertains to equality of all as to say he had better policies toward neighboring Haiti especially when he and Francois Duvalier had their own clash which had incited him to once again even wanting to invade Haiti and funny and weird enough, Francois Duvalier had managed to get the International support on his behalf and side.
It is recorded in History Lautaro or perhaps maybe Dominicans view him a lot more highly than the rest of the International body which is quite probabl
A more tense and confrontational situation developed in April 1963 between Duvalier and Dominican Republic president Juan Bosch Gaviño. Duvalier and Bosch were confirmed adversaries; the Dominican president provided asylum and direct support to Haitian exiles who plotted against the Duvalier regime. Duvalier ordered the Presidential Guard to occupy the Dominican chancery in Pétionville in an effort to apprehend an army officer believed to have been involved in an unsuccessful attempt to kidnap the dictator's son, Jean-Claude Duvalier, and daughter, Simone Duvalier.
The Dominican Republic reacted with outrage and indignation. Bosch publicly threatened to invade Haiti, and he ordered army units to the frontier. Although observers throughout the world anticipated military action that would lead to Duvalier's downfall, they saw events turn in the Haitian tyrant's favor. Dominican military commanders, who found Bosch's political leanings too far to the left, expressed little support for an invasion of Haiti. Bosch, because he could not count on his military, decided to let go of his dream to overthrow the neighboring dictatorship. Instead, he allowed the matter to be settled by emissaries of the Organization of American States (OAS).
You do not learn, do you? There is a major difference between Revolutionary racism and Discriminative Racism. In fact many will tell you that what you consider to be racism in Haiti is more what is called Classism.
Revolutionary Racism is racism toward the known dominant group of people suppressing, oppressing another group of people thus the occupiers, conquerors and colonists White France or Spain which Haitian Liberators wanted to rid Haiti of.
Discriminative Racism is racism solemnly based primarily on one's skin as to deem them inferior or less than human and prevent such discriminated race or group to attain even basic legal rights or to engage in a genocidal campaign like Rafael Leonardis Trujillo and others.
Classism is when a portion of a certain society is believed to be or looked down upon another class as to not being educated, rich or as well mannered thus as Elite groups in such a society who are believed to hold power due to Wealth and stature
Exactly Lautaro,
Although Duvalier went under the notion he was pro-black and went under the pretext he was for the mass, there could not have been a greater hypocrite as he. From what I have read and studied about both Bosch and Duvalier, thus I see exists a great paradox between the two men.
Between Juan Bosch and Francois Duvalier although I must admittedly say the difference was Juan Bosch loved the Dominican people as Duvalier did not but wanted to have the outside society or the Haitian mass to believe that he did love them (The Haitian people) when most of his Government catered to the Elite Mulatto or just the Elites period. I would say the two were parallel nemesis-enemies, but I may be wrong with that analogy that perhaps they were just enemies.
Suffice to say, a president may seem liberal to the cause of his own internal native Country's Issues but not (what I would refer to as) a Globalist Liberal or in terms of Foreign affairs or issues.
Yes indeed Lautaro,
I have heard of Jacque Stephen Alexis. Wow, are you sure you are not Haitian Lautaro lol? I have to tell you, you are always a worthy debater in discussion those issues. I am in shock that a Dominican can know as much as you do about the entire Island and yet you have not limited your studies or views to the norms of comfort of racist Dominican Republic like most others do.
You are a one Dominican I would really wish to get involve in Dominican Politic that even if you were to be or have been a racist (Not saying you are, were or will be) I would much rather be able to deal with you given the educational knowledge you have you would not have been and arrogant racist if you were racist. Where in DR have you conducted your educational Study?
My entire life is devoted to study the history of the entire Island as I am of both Independent Nations as reflected on my Pseudo online names.
Always a pleasure Lautaro,
BohionoYoSoy
1.Are you learning anything ?
2.Is the debator fair and balance ?
3.Is he off the subject ?
4.Knowledge or lack of it regarding the subject
I am willing to learn, be fair, have a balance and open mind. One person among others, I look up to, in the forum is Mr Lautaro his argument are well articulated, respectful, well founded, and base on fact not on emotions.
Watch out, just because you disagree with someone does not necessarily make him a racist. We all have some degree of prejudice, the problem is when we act on them and believe in them. Alot of the Dominicans poster strike me as being anti something or have alot of prejudices pass unto to them.