Written by: S1CAR1O, 23 Jan 2009 8:11 AM
From: United States
its about time they start regulating the working hatians in dr an begin gettin serious about the imigration issue.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Jan 2009 8:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Don't expect this to last, sicario. As with every measure that has ever been taken on dominican matters, the implementation of this measure will drop once this one loses its air novelty. As the old saying goes: "Old habits die hard". Just ask yourself what happened to the so called "pink book" to register foreigners and you will get a very illustrative answer about things.
From: Dominican Republic
Well, at least is something. I much rather have Documented alliens that could be traced than illigal spirits with no name.
From: Dominican Republic
No regulation, just deportation. Should be the motto.
Let's not get all softy about this, the vermin will eat us alive.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
quisling how kind of you to include Haitians in your little hate bag with the Jews and the gays .....Have you seen Obamas inner circle...New White House - so far we have:
Rahm Emanuel - Chief of Staff - Jewish
David Axelrod - Senior Advisor to the President - Jewish
Ronald Klain - Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States - Jewish
Larry Summers - Economic Advisor to the President - Jewish
Paul Volcker - Economic Advisor to the President, Former Head of Fed Reserve - Jewish
Tim Geithner - Treasury Secetary - Jewish
Peter Orszag - Head of Budget - Jewish
Am I the only one noticing that Obama and Biden are not so much assembling staff, as gathering a minyan?
Written by: generoso, 23 Jan 2009 9:14 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
They are five Haitians in Obama's cabinet as well, count them five.
Maybe they will start channeling some aid and investment in the way to Haiti to relieve Dominican Republic of carrying most of the burden of caring for Haiti's poor and those in need of health care.
Haitians should stop exporting their poor to the DR.
We need to ID the Haitians that are in transit here. We do not need to make them residents.
Dominicans need the jobs that Haitians are taking.
Haitians should return to their homeland where they are welcome and not prolong their stay here where they are not welcome, and are just used by unscrupulous construction moguls and farmers.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I am glad you did not refer to them as vermin ...They are unfortunate human beings ...and in spite of your sometime humorous offerings you feel the same way
Written by: generoso, 23 Jan 2009 9:35 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Is like this:
If I was in charge of a life boat in the high seas already stressed by weight, space and available rations by survivors on board and 10 new persons floating wanted to come on board what would I do:
1. Allow them to come on board and the whole boat will capsize?
2. Allow them to attach themselves next to the boat and prevent our voyage to shore?
3. Give them half our rations so to decrease our own chances of making it to shore?
4. Or throw at the them whatever remaining life vests we had and tell them to stick together until we get to help and try sending a rescue boat for them?
Which of the above options would make more sense?
Sometimes decisions that are not very palatable have to be made in order for the best interest of the majority to survive in this world, and in this nation.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Keep 100,000 thousand and deport the 1,900,000 million others!!!
Written by: devin11, 23 Jan 2009 11:08 AM
From: United States
The reality of this situation is that the economies of the DR and Haiti are inextricably connected. The more the DR prospers economically the more Haitians will immigrate to the DR. If the DR wants to maintain it's cultural and social identities, they will have to painfully address the issues of how to help strengthen the economic prosperity of Haiti. While it is patently unfair for the DR to assume this responsibility, it will take unfortunate and difficult sacrifices to maintain the cultural attributes. Extreme measures will not work and will be met with sanctions and financial retributions from the outside world communities that will only make the current economic maladies even worse. The Dominican Government should make it's top focal issue, pressuring the Western communities to help reverse the economic hardships in Haiti that threaten the cultural stability of the DR.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Jan 2009 11:17 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
As people would say over here, devin: "Más claro de ahí, ni el agua".
Written by: etiennc, 23 Jan 2009 12:23 PM
From: United States
" UNDOCUMENTED HAITIANS START GETTING DOMINICAN ID's "
Anyone wants to go beyond the empty rethoric and discuss this subject?
It seems that the seasonal Haitian man power is really needed.
I hope I have guided you a litlle,let's see if you are going to go stray and start the usual me against you.
The law of Economics is clearly expressed here
HINT : Seasonal men power needed but the hired hands must return home after the harvest.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Jan 2009 1:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The question to ask around here, ettienc, is if those documents would enable the workers to sue their employers if the latter keep up with the despicable practice of withholding the former's wages once the quincena looms on the horizon, or if these documents would protect them from any random round-up by the security forces.
From: United States
devin and gen-both you guys made great and valid points. However, I am still wondering how and what does giving illegal aliens ID cards really, really mean or imply? Does it solve the migratory illegality of Haitians living in the DR? I can't really see the difference, before you are a working illegal alien without an ID card and now you are still a illegal working alien but now has an ID card? How does that solve the illegal immigration problem in the DR? Does giving a Haitian an ID card solves the problem? Wow !!! I can't believe it, after all of these years, and the solution was so simple. You know what.....lets give them Dominican green cards, better yet ...lets give them all Dominican citizenship and DR passports, that way we will solve that problem once and for all. OK, next item on the agenda!!!
From: Haiti
Like i always say " Fight Poverty not people in poverty".
Written by: generoso, 23 Jan 2009 3:42 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
hateIam1804
Boss man you are back?
Sneak across the border again?
Did you bring your pea shooter?
Written by: caonabo, 23 Jan 2009 4:16 PM
From: United States
Lets not fool ourselves, the government itself hires these illegal Haitians for construction purposes. Haitian labor, illegal or otherwise greases the Dominican economic wheels quiet well.
From: United States
You know what Caonabo, you are absolutely and positively, right!!! Bottom line, there is not really a will to solve the Haitian problem. This ID stuff is just a bunch of crap, BS, band-aide to the wound type "solution" if you can call it that. The Gov't are the biggest culprits and promotors of this Haitian problem......no, ifs, ands or butts. Today our jobs, tomorrow our nation. Just wait and see.
Written by: devin11, 23 Jan 2009 5:56 PM
From: United States
I must say, I'm amazed that this topic has for the most part been discussed with civility and differing insightful points of view not typical of any DT article regarding a Haitian / Dominican issue. I know that we are only 18 comments in and that at anytime the topic may turn into a typical hate fest of insults and aspersions. None the less, 18 posts without incident is the new record and I hope that we can add to it.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
devin you missed this one ...............................................................................................Written by: Inquisidor, 23 Jan 2009 8:23 AM
From: Dominican Republic
No regulation, just deportation. Should be the motto.
Let's not get all softy about this, the vermin will eat us alive.
Written by: devin11, 23 Jan 2009 6:21 PM
From: United States
I didn't miss anything GC, my statement included the words "for the most part".
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
sorry ....I missed that
Written by: Amber, 23 Jan 2009 7:43 PM
From: United States
I wonder what's stated on these ID's . Does is say something like:
Name: Jean Pierre
Status: Illegal Haitian.
Can remain unlawfully in the D.R. until his demise
Written by: generoso, 23 Jan 2009 7:47 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Amber
You omitted the last line:
Instructions: Shoot immediately.
Written by: Amber, 23 Jan 2009 7:52 PM
From: United States
Ay! Generoso, you don't sound very generous to me.
Seriously, I would like to see one of these cards
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Haitians don't have any excuse anymore to be an scapegoat in the glorious Dominican Republic, blame France, Canada, US goverment but never our country.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Rubi has returned to save the country .....welcome home Rubi ,,,,you should have called we would have got the brass band out
Written by: etiennc, 23 Jan 2009 9:26 PM
From: United States
You may not like wackocoocoo Rubi
You may disagree with psycholoco Rubi
But when he speaks ,people listen-
General Roso , please give your seat to JRRabia rosa
satan is back with a vengeance
Haitians crawl back in your hole
Soon zombieloco HateIam 1804 will stick out its ugly neck also
Shit is going to fly Oh my God.
Its is going to be fun to read even though I will need to take a shower after each post.
Roso are you ready _?
You have your bucket ?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
etiennc very amusing
Written by: devin11, 23 Jan 2009 9:43 PM
From: United States
And there goes the record.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Devin civility is your specialty but I know you enjoy watching the food fights
From: United States, New York
You guys are too funny :-)
But getting back to the article, as most people suspect these cards mean nothing. They are still illegal, and the employers have to step forward and actually confirm the migrant is working for them (and keep reconfirming it year after year). It is my understanding that most employers don't do this because it does in fact give the worker the right to sue them for exploitation. And by the way, the seasonal manpower is not desperately needed, it is WANTED by landowners who refuse to pay Dominicans fair wages. But their day of reckoning is here, if the recent trend to keep importing agricultural goods keeps up they will soon be out of business anyway.
Written by: devin11, 23 Jan 2009 9:53 PM
From: United States
GC, You would be mistaken buddy, I don't mind passioned debate and exchange but as soon as people use hatred as their conviction, I exit on cue. Once that dye has been cast, you won't find anything of substantive or intellectual value left in the wake.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
probably so
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
hatred, discrimination, abuse is the same old BS used by the Haitians in Dominican Republic, if they want rights move back to Haiti and demand it from your country and France because They destroyed all the resources, Canada and US for talking C..p and do nothing but blame DR for Haitians mistakes.
"Peace with respect" and stop the Haitian BS!!!!!!!!!!
From: Haiti
I ve nothing against Rubi, I know he was in a training camp,maybe he deserted. but anyways welcome back boy. Hello to Dominicanchic...i think it s a good idea that DR change is politic about immigrations instead of barbarian acts. I hope it ll last, I m wondering when the Haitian gvt will start doing the same thing for the DR working girls here.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Haitian1804:
Do it please!!!!!! but then is comparing apples to pears, 2 different civilizations buddy!!!
regardles of your feelings and motivations We have the right edge!!!!!!!
Written by: OndeVert 
, 23 Jan 2009 10:29 PM
From: United States
Are the Haitians illegaly migrating to DR because Haiti does not document them? Is documentation process going to stop the more than 100,000 illegal haitians that cross into DR annually? When the Haitians find out that DR is documenting illegals, more Haitians will cross over to receive documentation. The jobs the Haitians do are not advertised and the employer never has to prove that no Dominican wants to do the job! The Haitianization process of DR is fed by the government and the private sector! Haiti will be destroy and they will not know what hit them!
Written by: kmnupe, 23 Jan 2009 11:02 PM
From: United States, NYC
The officials of the country are clever.
If there were no illegal migration problem, the citizens of DR would have to turn their focus on the thieves in government and those suckers know very well what can happen when the populace turn their anger towards them.
No more paradise!!!
From: Haiti
Haiti will be destroy and they will not know what hit them!""" Oh no Haiti won t destroy ondevert...\I m sorry for you, the empire will raise again and I hope you ll be there to admire it, btw where do u find this french name? you are not Dominican, you are \Haitian
Written by: etiennc, 23 Jan 2009 11:06 PM
From: United States
I love to read a article that relate a pragmatic reality and later read the comments of the the crazies and the delusionals
Written by: etiennc, 23 Jan 2009 11:09 PM
From: United States
Read ( an article that relates)
Written by: etiennc, 23 Jan 2009 11:12 PM
From: United States
Ok Bye
I am going to take my usual shower after being hit by the bull shit slingers.
Emjoy your redundant diatribes
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
ALERT!!!!!! ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!!! ALERT!!!!!! ALERT!!!!!!
Hey guys........you all noticed how Josean isn't in here.........I wonder if he got his card or if he's still in line.........maybe his riding the metro after all thats his favorite hobby.
Written by: DannyVC, 24 Jan 2009 12:48 AM
From: United States, New Jersey
It has BEGUN...
Written by: DannyVC, 24 Jan 2009 12:50 AM
From: United States, New Jersey
::Sounds of rolling coming from Duarte's grave::
Written by: antonioj, 24 Jan 2009 12:58 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: OndeVert, 23 Jan 2009 10:29 PM
From: United States
"
he's not Dominicans, he can not even speaks spanglish, he was let out from the sanatorium with wacko Rubi today
From: Dominican Republic, Bonao
DannyVC,, i wonder what has begun???
From: Haiti
it s miraculous that there s no blood shed on this subject already. what happened to all the vampires ? no one want to attack first?...Let s keep it cool here. for once.
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
haitian1804 were just waiting for Josean he's the fire starter, he's waiting to get his id card the one their giving for undocumented people, just hold on.
Written by: antonioj, 24 Jan 2009 1:24 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: gatitapequena, 24 Jan 2009 12:44 PM
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
haitian1804 were just waiting for Josean he's the fire starter, he's waiting to get his id card the one their giving for undocumented people, just hold on.
"
Gati, how do I get this card ? only Haitians are getting these cards, what about other illegals? sound preferential treatment to me, ok now seriously what is the point of these cards ? now do these cards have an expiry date, is there a finger print or picture on them ? Sound like some kind bandaid solutions. Leonel do something Dominicans or neither Haitians may cheer for you, but at least do something, the US is right never re-elect a president for a third consecutive term power corrupt, and keep you out of touch, and out of sight.
Written by: shannahk, 24 Jan 2009 2:30 PM
From: United States
wow, now i understand why so many dominicans in the u.s. say, "aqui somos los haitianos." a lot of you could give lessons to the racist anti-latino, anti-immigrant groups in the u.s.
From: United States
"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Written by: generoso, 24 Jan 2009 3:11 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
haitian1804
Boss man, you are the one that has taken HateIam sniper school.
Why don't you start the festivities?
Written by: generoso, 24 Jan 2009 3:31 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
HateIam1804
Identity Card:
Name: Emil Pié
Address: Cardboard shack in calle sin salida #12, parte atras. Dajabón, R.D.
Occupation: Unemployed sugar cane cutter and part time pea shooter sniper
Description: Ugly as sin
Written by: antonio1, 24 Jan 2009 8:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
Why do Haitian envies Dominican so much? Do Dominican envies Haitians?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Haitians envy Dominicans because they have more money ....certainly not because they know how to spell
Written by: etiennc, 24 Jan 2009 10:37 PM
From: United States
What is the meaning of the word "Redundancy_
"Save the reruns"
what is vu jade ?
???????????????????????????
Oh I get it :DEJA VU
Written by: etiennc, 24 Jan 2009 10:40 PM
From: United States
2009 is 2008 in slow motion.
"Save the reruns "
From: Haiti
Oh no genoro...can t get my rifle out...there s those guys with uniform everywhere in the street, you know the Carnival start here already so they r on their guard, it says there s some crazy Dominican suicide bomber wanna come blow their charges in the crowd.......very thight security. so try to do something with your machete genero
Written by: generoso, 25 Jan 2009 6:49 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
HateIam1804
Boss man, no it's not machete , it's "bayoneta" that I have waiting to stick it in your black bunda.
"Suicide bomber" you must be kidding, what Dominican may want to blow himself up in Port Au Prince, maybe out of desperation for not seeing any beautiful Dominican babes there.
From: Haiti
i already told you to do not say that "it's "bayoneta" that I have waiting to stick it in your black bunda.
" you sound gay, unless you are.and you r the general of a lovely army....lol.
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 12:14 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
etiennc
You are killing me etiennc, LOL.
Written by: Lautaro, 26 Jan 2009 11:32 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
shannahk said: "wow, now i understand why so many dominicans in the u.s. say, "aqui somos los haitianos." a lot of you could give lessons to the racist anti-latino, anti-immigrant groups in the u.s."
Look who´s talking, at least we haven´t blockaded the haitian coastline as your dear imperial navy have done to prevent the haitian boatpeople from reaching the Floridan coastline. Why don´t you give the haitians the same preferential treatment that you do to the cubans with your "dry-foot, wet-foot" policy? Haiti is certainly more of a gulag than Cuba will ever be, that´s for sure. Why don´t you look to your country´s flaws first before pointing fingers at the ones from others, shannahk?
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 11:48 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
etiennc
Your message disappeared magically. This is happening a lot. The censors are after us!
From: United States Virgin Islands
If things in Haiti were going well, Haitians would not come to DR. If Haitians were white they would be welcome in DR. Dominicans want to be white. They try to cover up their identity by calling black Dominicans "Indio" (Indian). There are white clubs rejecting blacks in DR. Today, more than 1 million Haitians live in DR. Most of them crossed the border illegally in search of employment. Most of them are poor peasants working in agriculture and construction. The DR government are not going to do anything drastic to stop illegal immigration because it benefits rich Dominican and foreign investors. The Haitians work for a much lower wage than Dominicans. The illegal Haitians are making DR beautiful. Haitians are incredibly disrespected in DR. I do not blame the Dominicans. I blame the Haitian government. If the Haitian government loved its people, it would stop the corruption and start getting the country in shape. Those same Haitians can be making Haiti beautiful.
From: United States Virgin Islands
Believe it or not there are rich Haitians living in DR. Even white Haitians! You cannot tell they are Haitians who are mostly black. Most of them will not admit they are Haitians because they do not want to be discriminated like the black Haitians are. The rich Haitians live in DR to escape the instability of Haiti. They live in exclusive luxurious communities. There are also middle class Haitians who send their kids to the universities in DR. So, not all Haitians in DR are poor illiterate African descent peasants. There are also Haitian tourists from the U.S., Canada, Europe, Haiti, etc... who come to DR to vacation because the security in Haiti is so bad they cannot vacation there. They also add to the economy of DR. Overall, a stable Haiti is an advantage to DR and the U.S.; Haitians would stay in Haiti to work and not be a burden via illegal immigration. There are solutions to fix Haiti (e.g., ilelatortue.com) but the Haitian government lacks leadership and is corrupted.
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 11:02 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Docpeters
If things were going well in Haiti , Haitians would still come to the DR but not to work in underpaying jobs, but as tourists, business men and investors. Because Haitians like the DR and what it has to offer that they don't find at home. Besides we are close and they can drive here or take a bus instead of risking the hazards of flying.
Some Haitians are working hard to construct homes, buildings and highways true, but they are taking the jobs that Dominicans could be doing, even though at a higher wage.
Dominican citizens do resent uninvited and illegal Haitian "guests" becoming a burden for the state and increasing already stressed to the max housing, public health and education institutions.
Haitians are exporting all their poor and sick en masse to DR and we do not like it.
But I agree with the conclusion of your post that Haiti's problem should be solved by responsible Haitians not by us. We are only Haiti's neighbor not the Haitian's father or caretaker.
Written by: generoso, 26 Jan 2009 11:05 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Docpeters
I am familiar with the project Ilelatortue and I hope that the sponsors finally get all the government
backing that they need so this beautiful project can materialize sooner rather than later.
From: United States
Docpeters, you have given a most balance perspective in favor of the Haitians. You are absolutely and positively right. In fact many present day Syrian, Lebanese Dominicans originally settled in Haiti but left to the DR for a better life. One name in particular comes to mind is the Nader family, from Haiti, one of them is a prominent int'l art dealer. There are also many other wealthy Haitians and business men, involved in major dealings, investors of important RE interests. However, along with the positive comes many negatives. Years ago we had a white Haitian who was involved in a big scam with the Dom Nat Lottery. But these Haitians are not the ones that pose a threat to the Dom Rep. Unfortunately, and I hate to say it, but it is the poor and destitute Haitian, that without fault of their own, the massive numbers of illegals aliens have created social havoc in the DR. They have displaced and caused much harm to the poor working class Dominicans unable to compete for the same wages.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Jan 2009 11:54 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I, myself and my family we are seriously comtemplating to retire 5 years from now some where in Costa Rica, Florida, and DR is hot on our list due the proximity to Haiti.
Docpeters your assesment is a pretty bold thruth with no window dressing, however you have made some generalizations about Dominicans that will not stand, which I do not agree with.
From: United States Virgin Islands
From: United States
Docpeters-I have my suspicion that there is a long term master plan by the international community controled mostly by three major players, Canada, France and the USA to make the Island of Hispañiola into one nation as a solution to this Haitian dilemma. This unexplained allowance of thousands of illegals into Dominican territory without authorities being really alarmed has me perplexed. This has to be the reason. No one is really doing anything about it. There must be an ulterior motive behind all of this indeed.
From: United States Virgin Islands
It used to be one island when the Tainos were the master of their own land. Eventually it is going to back to be one island. Pretty much like St. Martin/St. Marteen. It will probably be St. Domingue/Santo Domingo with an open border. That is what the international community wants and Leonel as well. It may not be a bad idea. Haiti will no longer be as black as it is. Whites and all races will come to live there and they will probably intermix with the black Haitians. It will be like DR, a nation of mulattos.
From: United States
"That is what the international community wants and Leonel as well." Docpeters, you made a very serious, heavy and controversial statement here. Though I suspected it all along, no one has actually gone out and made that admission. From what sources to you support this affirmation?
Written by: generoso, 27 Jan 2009 8:59 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Docpeters
Very interesting theory.
Do you have anything to substantiate your statements? Other than hearsay or wishful thinking?
St. Martin/St.Maarteen is not an independent country, It is a colony of two nations: the French and the Dutch.
Dominican Republic is an independent country, and no wishful thinking will unite us with another independent country against our will or the will of the majority of it's citizen's, both Haitian and Dominican.
Written by: generoso, 27 Jan 2009 9:04 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Docpeters
Your statements to merge the island It's like a wonderful tale of an arranged marriage, where the bride, in this case Haiti is looking desperately
to find a Dominican man to marry because she is pregnant and nobody wants her.
Oh, she is also destitute and homeless.
You are going to have to find other jerks to go for that ruse, I say no wedding, you can take your bride, pack your shotgun and shove it!
From: United States Virgin Islands
The marriage of Haiti and DR is best to solve the illegals from coming to the U.S. . In a way the "international community" controls the DR and Haiti. In a very subtle way but they do. Think about it.
Written by: devin11, 28 Jan 2009 7:06 AM
From: United States
Guillermone, I enjoy reading your posts and you are unquestionably very bright but you have absolutely lost me on your conspiracy theory. What benefit would there be of any type for the "trinity" of conspiring countries that you mentioned in the annexation of Hispanola? How would this possibly be sold to the people of either country, what political and governance system would pacify either national group to accept such an annexation? How do you fuse two such divergent cultures? How do you sell the Dominican people on an annexation platform of "we are a very poor island nation so it is for our future benefit and economic prosperity that we should annex with the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere"? Please help me understand these few issues while I que up the other 10 million far more difficult questions that I have. Docpeters, please feel free to interject as well.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Jan 2009 7:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
devin11 asked: Guillermone, I enjoy reading your posts and you are unquestionably very bright but you have absolutely lost me on your conspiracy theory. What benefit would there be of any type for the "trinity" of conspiring countries that you mentioned in the annexation of Hispanola?
That's easy, devin. The benefit would be that the so called trinity would, along with the incompetent haitian elites, finally get the chance to wash their hands off from the haitian problem that they helped to create in the first place. And for your info, guillermone hasn't been the only one from which I have heard the existence of such plans. One of my friends working at the UN has told me of the existence of such, and while the UN may be inoperative in the task of resolving major world crises, the people working over there are not exactly what you would call clueless about the real nature of this world's affairs. They might appear dumb at the surface, but believe me, they're very far from being so.
Written by: devin11, 28 Jan 2009 8:12 AM
From: United States
Mr. Lautaro,
Could you please interject your feelings about the other questions that I asked, if you don't mind.
From: Dominican Republic
Generoso
So well put, I would add:
"A Haitian bride barefoot, pregnant and carrying a previous child in her arms and another one
clutching her skirt.
She is destitute, homeless and has a large family of millions just like her.
No thanks but they will be no wedding in Saint Domingue East and the bride can go back to Haiti unwed, with all her poor children tagging along.
Her family can and should take care of her and find other options at home."
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Jan 2009 8:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Well devin, I'd love it if Oxfam, the Anglican Church, Catholic Relief Services, the Jesuits, and every bleeding NGO and GO out there would answer me those very same questions, because like Einstein, I think that it's plainly stupid to try a formula that failed so dismally the times that it was applied (by Toussaint Louverture in 1801 and Jean Pierre Boyer in 1822). The divergence of the cultures, and the authoritarism and racial/cultural intolerance of both nations, which would not suffer gladly the other to run things on their respective turf (and yes, racism exist in Haiti too, or how would you call a nation which refer to every foreigner as "blanc" (white), or that makes anyone of that color feel, as a friend of mine once said "as a jew in Europe during the Middle Ages"?) are the perfect recipe for a disaster on the scale of the civil wars on the Balkans and the African continent, in my humble opinion.
Written by: generoso, 28 Jan 2009 9:31 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
I have a better idea, why doesn't the USA merge with Mexico?
Or France merge with Morocco and welcomes all the "pie noir" to their mainland?
This union of two very different countries theory and idea from some NGO's bureaucrat and mental giant's with nothing to do except fantasizing on some beach in Bani smoking a reefer, is just that an idiotic and simplistic solution from day dreamers that do not bother to take into account the history, cultural differences,
economic ambiguities and fervent nationalisms of both sides of the island.
From: United States
Docpeters-before I get deep into the nitty gritty of this discussion and lose sight of your original statement, you still did not answer the question asked by both me and generoso. How do you know and can you confirm that the int'l community ("trinity") wants a unification of the Island, but particularly, what interests me most is that Leonel Fernandez is also in accord, somewhat like an acomplice to a back room conspiracy to this master plan? My statement was more of a conjecture rather then a confirmation, but you made is a very positive affirmation. At least Lautaro has friends in the UN who can qualify the concept. What ties do you have with Leonel? "Do you have anything to substantiate your statements?"-(Gen). Please support your argument and do not go on before answering this question, otherwise you will have lost credibility and any further posts you send will be disregarded (at least my me).
Written by: antonioj, 28 Jan 2009 2:58 PM
From: Canada, home safe
This is crazy folks this concept is remote and hard to contemplate will not come to fructution unless there are great economic changes in Haiti in that case the barriers and the border will become insignificant and fall naturally it only make sense.
Lat ,culture and language should not be an issue, if I am not mistaken docpeters is referring to a model a la europe union NOT to unite the two sides. By the way I agree with your analogy generoso.
Written by: generoso, 28 Jan 2009 3:05 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
thanks antonioj here is the corrected version:
The wonderful tale to merge the island in one country is like an arranged marriage, where the bride, in this case Haiti is looking desperately to find a Dominican man to marry to end her problems.
"A Haitian bride barefoot, pregnant and carrying a previous child in her arms and another one
clutching her skirt comes to DR uninvited,
She is also destitute, homeless and has a large family of millions just like her.
No thanks but they will be no wedding in Saint Domingue East and the bride can go back to Haiti unwed, with all her poor children tagging along.
Her family can and should take care of her and find other options at home."
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Jan 2009 3:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
antonioj said: Lat ,culture and language should not be an issue, if I am not mistaken docpeters is referring to a model a la europe union NOT to unite the two sides. By the way I agree with your analogy generoso.
That would not be an issue if the trinity interested with this would provide the funds to make the plan to work smoothly (and also the legal mechanisms to prevent these funds from vanishing as a whiff of smoke, you know how our politicos are), or at least the necessary funding until both sides of the island find themselves on equal economic footing. From what my friends have told me, they want the thing to work only by us covering ALL the expenses of such an undertaking. As people would say over here "que pendejos estan". If that is not such a gross attempt to take us for fools, then I don't know what it is.
From: Haiti
the Dominican Republic is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor; a large number of Dominican women are trafficked into prostitution and sexual exploitation in Western Europe, Australia, Central and South America, and Caribbean destinations; a significant number of women, boys, and girls are trafficked within the country for sexual exploitation and domestic servitude
tier rating: Tier 2 Watch List - for a second consecutive year, the Dominican Republic is on the Tier 2 Watch List for its failure to show evidence of increasing (cont)
From: Haiti
(cont)efforts to combat human trafficking, particularly in terms of not adequately investigating and prosecuting public officials who may be complicit with trafficking activity, and inadequate government efforts to protect trafficking victims; the government has taken measures to reduce demand for commercial sex acts with children through criminal prosecutions (2008) ......DR is way behind Haiti in some subject, i hope you guys understand that you have a lot of work to do before you start talking like you was the perfect Nation and Country.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Jan 2009 4:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
We are conscious that we're not Switzerland, YOU, on the other hand, have yet to admit the mistakes that you have done in the handling of your country, mr. Ton Ton Macoute, so you're the less indicated to be pointing fingers around on this game. Besides, Brazil suffers from the same human traficking malady, and this hasn't hampered them yet on their way to the top. And to give you the coup de grace, at least we have enough freedom of the press to allow the majority of the cases to be prosecuted. Haiti, on the other hand, is not safe enough for the people that put forth the denounces, that is, the journalists, to carry the denounciation job with a minimum of smoothness, that is, without having to look over their shoulders at every corner (Jean Dominique's assassination was a pretty illustrative about this), and I'm sure that the trafficking cases are far worse over there, if we're to take the restaveks as a sample of what someone can find on the reporting job over there.
From: Haiti
You must be out of your mind man...Freedom of press? If Haiti didn t have a free press you woulnd t be aware about all the things you r posting. The Haitian press is as the same as any country my friend. And we ve always admit that our gvt is suck and we r looking forward to change all this with a revolution of the upcoming generation...But you r showing now how you get upset whenever they point out one of the DR bad sector....Nope Haiti is very ahead of you, our trafficking cases is very low compare to DR.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Jan 2009 5:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Show the proofs about it, mr. macoute if you're so sure about that. May I remind you that the main victims of the traffic in the DR are your own countrymen, sold out by despicable elite types such as yourself? Or the agreements that you macoutes had with the sugar magnates, which included embarking your countrymen like it was done on Saint Domingue, and at the very port of Le Cap, to make the resemblance all the more sickening? If I didn't know any better, I'd say that your real founding fathers were the slavers Jean Francois Papillon and Georges Biassou instead of Toussaint Louverture and J.J. Dessalines, because you're so busy emulating the former more than the latter.
From: United States
The way I see this unification concept, though it may sound preposterous and outrageous now, it may not be so far fetch in the future. Just look at what is happening internally within the DR and internationally. If this unification proves fruitful, it will not occur within our lifetime. It will be a slow subtle process, which has already begun right NOW and under our noses and no one is doing anything about it. Rather, the authorities are looking for ways to accommodate Haitians(issue ID cards) By the time someone finally realizes what happened and want to cry foul, it will be too late, the fusion is too deep rooted and impossible to weed out. And as they say,"la mala yerba nunca muere." We now have at least 1 million permanent Haitians living in DR, but we know that the real number is close to 2 million. The DR gov't neither has the will nor the resources to deport them. It is an enormous task and financially unfeasible. It is cheaper and easier to just leave them be.
(conti)
From: United States
After a few generations, the Haitian transplants will be Dominicanize and accepted by the general population and will marry and further intermix leaving a darker hue on the Dominican complexion. A more likely scenario would be the evolution of a hybrid mix of the Haitian and Dominican culture. This creolization process will be the only way to overcome and allow for linguistic, cultural, racial, and religious barriers to break down. Like all immigrant groups as time goes on, they will become educated, their economic status will improve, will run for elected office and eventually like Peña Gomez become prominent in politics. This new breed of politicians will seek and promote legislation to unify the island, which will have the backing and support of the int’l community. The old generation has died out and new generation is more complacent and open to the new. Thus a new country has emerged with a new constitution, language and culture. (conti)
From: United States
The present world trend looks for unification: Caricom, Mercosur, Carifta, CETA, NAFTA. The concept of a world gov’t is nothing new. Hitler tried to unify Europe under his rule but failed. Later came EU created with a single currency. Bolivar wanted to form one Latin Ame country, Gran Colombia, but was unable to achieve it. The Muslims want to unite the world under a theocratic gov't but that it yet to be seen. Nevertheless, the idea is still alive and well today. Isolation is a thing of the past. We have begun to see all kinds of barriers destroyed. The unification of Germany, relations with China and Iron curtain is gone. Why can the same not be possible for the DR in the future? We saw racial barriers destroyed with the election of the 1st black US pres the most powerful country in the world. The prince of Spain married outside of the monarcy. Princes Di broke out of the mold and divorced Prince Wm and got involved with a non-anglo plebeian.Things never before seen in history.
Written by: antonioj, 28 Jan 2009 7:09 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: guillermone, 28 Jan 2009 6:06 PM
From: United States
After a few generations, the Haitian transplants will be Dominicanize and accepted by the general population and will marry and further intermix leaving a darker hue on the Dominican complexion. A more likely scenario would be the evolution of a hybrid mix of the Haitian and Dominican culture. This creolization process will be the only way to overcome and allow for linguistic, cultural, racial, and religious barriers to break down
"
Talking about hue, my haunt went to visit Jeremie Haiti last year, she fall to tears-- not the place she remenber where she was born, there are few family left doing business, her friends were either dead or emigrated. The problem is the reproduction rate of the masses the poorer, the less educated the more children they have.
The population explosion on the western side is a treath to both Haiti and DR in term of stability,
no one seem to care.
Written by: antonioj, 28 Jan 2009 7:09 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: guillermone, 28 Jan 2009 6:06 PM
From: United States
After a few generations, the Haitian transplants will be Dominicanize and accepted by the general population and will marry and further intermix leaving a darker hue on the Dominican complexion. A more likely scenario would be the evolution of a hybrid mix of the Haitian and Dominican culture. This creolization process will be the only way to overcome and allow for linguistic, cultural, racial, and religious barriers to break down
"
Talking about hue, my haunt went to visit Jeremie Haiti last year, she fall to tears-- not the place she remenber where she was born, there are few family left doing business, her friends were either dead or emigrated. The problem is the reproduction rate of the masses the poorer, the less educated the more children they have.
The population explosion on the western side is a treath to both Haiti and DR in term of stability,
no one seem to care.
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Let's not get all softy about this, the vermin will eat us alive.
Rahm Emanuel - Chief of Staff - Jewish
David Axelrod - Senior Advisor to the President - Jewish
Ronald Klain - Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States - Jewish
Larry Summers - Economic Advisor to the President - Jewish
Paul Volcker - Economic Advisor to the President, Former Head of Fed Reserve - Jewish
Tim Geithner - Treasury Secetary - Jewish
Peter Orszag - Head of Budget - Jewish
Am I the only one noticing that Obama and Biden are not so much assembling staff, as gathering a minyan?
Maybe they will start channeling some aid and investment in the way to Haiti to relieve Dominican Republic of carrying most of the burden of caring for Haiti's poor and those in need of health care.
Haitians should stop exporting their poor to the DR.
We need to ID the Haitians that are in transit here. We do not need to make them residents.
Dominicans need the jobs that Haitians are taking.
Haitians should return to their homeland where they are welcome and not prolong their stay here where they are not welcome, and are just used by unscrupulous construction moguls and farmers.
If I was in charge of a life boat in the high seas already stressed by weight, space and available rations by survivors on board and 10 new persons floating wanted to come on board what would I do:
1. Allow them to come on board and the whole boat will capsize?
2. Allow them to attach themselves next to the boat and prevent our voyage to shore?
3. Give them half our rations so to decrease our own chances of making it to shore?
4. Or throw at the them whatever remaining life vests we had and tell them to stick together until we get to help and try sending a rescue boat for them?
Which of the above options would make more sense?
Sometimes decisions that are not very palatable have to be made in order for the best interest of the majority to survive in this world, and in this nation.
Keep 100,000 thousand and deport the 1,900,000 million others!!!
Anyone wants to go beyond the empty rethoric and discuss this subject?
It seems that the seasonal Haitian man power is really needed.
I hope I have guided you a litlle,let's see if you are going to go stray and start the usual me against you.
The law of Economics is clearly expressed here
HINT : Seasonal men power needed but the hired hands must return home after the harvest.
Boss man you are back?
Sneak across the border again?
Did you bring your pea shooter?
From: Dominican Republic
No regulation, just deportation. Should be the motto.
Let's not get all softy about this, the vermin will eat us alive.
Name: Jean Pierre
Status: Illegal Haitian.
Can remain unlawfully in the D.R. until his demise
You omitted the last line:
Instructions: Shoot immediately.
Seriously, I would like to see one of these cards
You may disagree with psycholoco Rubi
But when he speaks ,people listen-
General Roso , please give your seat to JRRabia rosa
satan is back with a vengeance
Haitians crawl back in your hole
Soon zombieloco HateIam 1804 will stick out its ugly neck also
Shit is going to fly Oh my God.
Its is going to be fun to read even though I will need to take a shower after each post.
Roso are you ready _?
You have your bucket ?
But getting back to the article, as most people suspect these cards mean nothing. They are still illegal, and the employers have to step forward and actually confirm the migrant is working for them (and keep reconfirming it year after year). It is my understanding that most employers don't do this because it does in fact give the worker the right to sue them for exploitation. And by the way, the seasonal manpower is not desperately needed, it is WANTED by landowners who refuse to pay Dominicans fair wages. But their day of reckoning is here, if the recent trend to keep importing agricultural goods keeps up they will soon be out of business anyway.
"Peace with respect" and stop the Haitian BS!!!!!!!!!!
Do it please!!!!!! but then is comparing apples to pears, 2 different civilizations buddy!!!
regardles of your feelings and motivations We have the right edge!!!!!!!
If there were no illegal migration problem, the citizens of DR would have to turn their focus on the thieves in government and those suckers know very well what can happen when the populace turn their anger towards them.
No more paradise!!!
I am going to take my usual shower after being hit by the bull shit slingers.
Emjoy your redundant diatribes
Hey guys........you all noticed how Josean isn't in here.........I wonder if he got his card or if he's still in line.........maybe his riding the metro after all thats his favorite hobby.
From: United States
"
he's not Dominicans, he can not even speaks spanglish, he was let out from the sanatorium with wacko Rubi today
From: United States, Somewhere in the World
haitian1804 were just waiting for Josean he's the fire starter, he's waiting to get his id card the one their giving for undocumented people, just hold on.
"
Gati, how do I get this card ? only Haitians are getting these cards, what about other illegals? sound preferential treatment to me, ok now seriously what is the point of these cards ? now do these cards have an expiry date, is there a finger print or picture on them ? Sound like some kind bandaid solutions. Leonel do something Dominicans or neither Haitians may cheer for you, but at least do something, the US is right never re-elect a president for a third consecutive term power corrupt, and keep you out of touch, and out of sight.
Boss man, you are the one that has taken HateIam sniper school.
Why don't you start the festivities?
Identity Card:
Name: Emil Pié
Address: Cardboard shack in calle sin salida #12, parte atras. Dajabón, R.D.
Occupation: Unemployed sugar cane cutter and part time pea shooter sniper
Description: Ugly as sin
"Save the reruns"
what is vu jade ?
???????????????????????????
Oh I get it :DEJA VU
"Save the reruns "
Boss man, no it's not machete , it's "bayoneta" that I have waiting to stick it in your black bunda.
"Suicide bomber" you must be kidding, what Dominican may want to blow himself up in Port Au Prince, maybe out of desperation for not seeing any beautiful Dominican babes there.
" you sound gay, unless you are.and you r the general of a lovely army....lol.
You are killing me etiennc, LOL.
Look who´s talking, at least we haven´t blockaded the haitian coastline as your dear imperial navy have done to prevent the haitian boatpeople from reaching the Floridan coastline. Why don´t you give the haitians the same preferential treatment that you do to the cubans with your "dry-foot, wet-foot" policy? Haiti is certainly more of a gulag than Cuba will ever be, that´s for sure. Why don´t you look to your country´s flaws first before pointing fingers at the ones from others, shannahk?
Your message disappeared magically. This is happening a lot. The censors are after us!
If things were going well in Haiti , Haitians would still come to the DR but not to work in underpaying jobs, but as tourists, business men and investors. Because Haitians like the DR and what it has to offer that they don't find at home. Besides we are close and they can drive here or take a bus instead of risking the hazards of flying.
Some Haitians are working hard to construct homes, buildings and highways true, but they are taking the jobs that Dominicans could be doing, even though at a higher wage.
Dominican citizens do resent uninvited and illegal Haitian "guests" becoming a burden for the state and increasing already stressed to the max housing, public health and education institutions.
Haitians are exporting all their poor and sick en masse to DR and we do not like it.
But I agree with the conclusion of your post that Haiti's problem should be solved by responsible Haitians not by us. We are only Haiti's neighbor not the Haitian's father or caretaker.
I am familiar with the project Ilelatortue and I hope that the sponsors finally get all the government
backing that they need so this beautiful project can materialize sooner rather than later.
Docpeters your assesment is a pretty bold thruth with no window dressing, however you have made some generalizations about Dominicans that will not stand, which I do not agree with.
http://www.haitianalysis.com/2009/1/26/change-haiti-can-believe-in
Very interesting theory.
Do you have anything to substantiate your statements? Other than hearsay or wishful thinking?
St. Martin/St.Maarteen is not an independent country, It is a colony of two nations: the French and the Dutch.
Dominican Republic is an independent country, and no wishful thinking will unite us with another independent country against our will or the will of the majority of it's citizen's, both Haitian and Dominican.
Your statements to merge the island It's like a wonderful tale of an arranged marriage, where the bride, in this case Haiti is looking desperately
to find a Dominican man to marry because she is pregnant and nobody wants her.
Oh, she is also destitute and homeless.
You are going to have to find other jerks to go for that ruse, I say no wedding, you can take your bride, pack your shotgun and shove it!
That's easy, devin. The benefit would be that the so called trinity would, along with the incompetent haitian elites, finally get the chance to wash their hands off from the haitian problem that they helped to create in the first place. And for your info, guillermone hasn't been the only one from which I have heard the existence of such plans. One of my friends working at the UN has told me of the existence of such, and while the UN may be inoperative in the task of resolving major world crises, the people working over there are not exactly what you would call clueless about the real nature of this world's affairs. They might appear dumb at the surface, but believe me, they're very far from being so.
Could you please interject your feelings about the other questions that I asked, if you don't mind.
So well put, I would add:
"A Haitian bride barefoot, pregnant and carrying a previous child in her arms and another one
clutching her skirt.
She is destitute, homeless and has a large family of millions just like her.
No thanks but they will be no wedding in Saint Domingue East and the bride can go back to Haiti unwed, with all her poor children tagging along.
Her family can and should take care of her and find other options at home."
Or France merge with Morocco and welcomes all the "pie noir" to their mainland?
This union of two very different countries theory and idea from some NGO's bureaucrat and mental giant's with nothing to do except fantasizing on some beach in Bani smoking a reefer, is just that an idiotic and simplistic solution from day dreamers that do not bother to take into account the history, cultural differences,
economic ambiguities and fervent nationalisms of both sides of the island.
Lat ,culture and language should not be an issue, if I am not mistaken docpeters is referring to a model a la europe union NOT to unite the two sides. By the way I agree with your analogy generoso.
The wonderful tale to merge the island in one country is like an arranged marriage, where the bride, in this case Haiti is looking desperately to find a Dominican man to marry to end her problems.
"A Haitian bride barefoot, pregnant and carrying a previous child in her arms and another one
clutching her skirt comes to DR uninvited,
She is also destitute, homeless and has a large family of millions just like her.
No thanks but they will be no wedding in Saint Domingue East and the bride can go back to Haiti unwed, with all her poor children tagging along.
Her family can and should take care of her and find other options at home."
That would not be an issue if the trinity interested with this would provide the funds to make the plan to work smoothly (and also the legal mechanisms to prevent these funds from vanishing as a whiff of smoke, you know how our politicos are), or at least the necessary funding until both sides of the island find themselves on equal economic footing. From what my friends have told me, they want the thing to work only by us covering ALL the expenses of such an undertaking. As people would say over here "que pendejos estan". If that is not such a gross attempt to take us for fools, then I don't know what it is.
tier rating: Tier 2 Watch List - for a second consecutive year, the Dominican Republic is on the Tier 2 Watch List for its failure to show evidence of increasing (cont)
(conti)
From: United States
After a few generations, the Haitian transplants will be Dominicanize and accepted by the general population and will marry and further intermix leaving a darker hue on the Dominican complexion. A more likely scenario would be the evolution of a hybrid mix of the Haitian and Dominican culture. This creolization process will be the only way to overcome and allow for linguistic, cultural, racial, and religious barriers to break down
"
Talking about hue, my haunt went to visit Jeremie Haiti last year, she fall to tears-- not the place she remenber where she was born, there are few family left doing business, her friends were either dead or emigrated. The problem is the reproduction rate of the masses the poorer, the less educated the more children they have.
The population explosion on the western side is a treath to both Haiti and DR in term of stability,
no one seem to care.
From: United States
After a few generations, the Haitian transplants will be Dominicanize and accepted by the general population and will marry and further intermix leaving a darker hue on the Dominican complexion. A more likely scenario would be the evolution of a hybrid mix of the Haitian and Dominican culture. This creolization process will be the only way to overcome and allow for linguistic, cultural, racial, and religious barriers to break down
"
Talking about hue, my haunt went to visit Jeremie Haiti last year, she fall to tears-- not the place she remenber where she was born, there are few family left doing business, her friends were either dead or emigrated. The problem is the reproduction rate of the masses the poorer, the less educated the more children they have.
The population explosion on the western side is a treath to both Haiti and DR in term of stability,
no one seem to care.