LA DESCUBIERTA, Dominican republic. - Dominican Army troops today announced the dismantling of dozens of furnaces to make charcoal and detained at least 30 undocumented Haitians found cutting down different species of trees, especially mesquite.
Army chief Joaquin Virgilio Perez said the arrest of the Haitiansm, who were handed over to the Immigration Agency for repatriation, is part of a heightened effort called `Operative against the axe,’ to keep Haitians and Dominicans in the zone from cutting down trees to make charcoal, which ravages the forests.
“We have destroyed dozens of furnaces in the last hours and arrested dozens of undocumented Haitians who chop down trees to make charcoal. We’ve also done the same with Dominican citizens who irresponsibly do the same,” the senior officer said.
Perez added that he instructed the brigade commanders “to be on watch to prevent this from continuing, while we are in permanent contact with the Environment Ministry to enforce the laws and charge those who violate them.”
From: United States
arrest those fools and banish them from the face of the republic! this cannot go on any longer. AMEN!
Written by: xwill7, 12 Oct 2009 3:08 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
finally!!!
Written by: Sajomero, 12 Oct 2009 3:15 PM
From: United States, Del primer Santiago de America....y el mejor!!!
I never thought I would say this but they should be shot on the spot. F... the NGO's and human rights activists and Sonia(come m) Pierre. Its is also our right to defend our land, resources and future.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Poor creatures the Haitians, They are innocents and just because they are blacks they being
discriminated, let them wipe out all the trees in the island so they can survive
From: United States
More action lik dis needz ta be takin around da world so we dont lose the aniamalzzzz and treezzzzzz dat keep our world goin!
Written by: BASTA, 12 Oct 2009 5:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs
Poor creatures the Haitians, and the poor Dominicans cut and slash all through DR also. I see them every day with bags of charcoal
From: United States
its them pesky pesticide fumes putting Rubirosa's brain??? into disequilibrium.
From: United States
i see where all the intelligent people have come out to play.
Written by: Belly, 12 Oct 2009 6:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Houston,Texas y San Francisco, DR
The million dollar question. WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SONIA PIERE? I would like to see what she thinks now of her great work and acomplishments. Sonia if you are watching come out from the bottom of that rock and see what the poor innocents are doing but i guess if you do that then you whole propaganda will go down the drain like it should have had for a long time.
Written by: dagtan, 12 Oct 2009 7:08 PM
From: United States
Good job, keep preventing one of the most preserved forest in the western hemisphere intact. The haitian migrants who crossed the border should indeed be deported with jail sentences and the DR government should make sure that those sentences are carried out by the haitian government, if such thing does not happen, then denounce the haitian government for not doing anything about it.
As far as the Dominican citizens who are doing the same thing they should be fined for the value of such trees and sent to jail as well. also, the people who are buying this 'carbon" knowing that it is illegal should be fined as well. This will send a clear message to the forest destroyers on the island.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
Trying to camouflage your haitian whereabouts?
From: United States
These punks should be kept in prison that will serve a deterrent to those who had alraedy cut trees in Haiti and think that DR is their god given back yard. I praise the army for such wonderful initiative and remind them that once deported they will sneak back in DR because haitian justice will not lock their ass. We all need the environment thank God you have at least a department of environment In Haiti the thug we have only contemplate to steal money too bad .
Written by: josean, 12 Oct 2009 7:55 PM
From: United States
“We have destroyed dozens of furnaces in the last hours and arrested dozens of undocumented Haitians who chop down trees to make charcoal. We’ve also done the same with Dominican citizens who irresponsibly do the same,” the senior officer said.
And the Bi-national elites and governments who rob the resources of both countries to line their already over stuffed pockets get off Scot-free.
Then do this publicity stunt to make believe the really care about protecting the natural resources of the country! Once the “Haitian are responsible for all our problems,” Racist xenophobic paranoia serves its purpose, it will be business as usual for both sides of the border!
So all you "Final Solution" crowd don’t get your panties all twisted in an orgasmic lets exterminate them frenzy.
continued:
Written by: josean, 12 Oct 2009 7:56 PM
From: United States
Haitian cheap (not to say salve) labor makes mucho money for some very powerful interests in Dominican society and is pressure relief valve for the Haitian elites and all your protestation of removal fall on wealthily deaf ears or where the sun don’t shine.
Written by: dagtan, 12 Oct 2009 9:21 PM
From: United States
Atabey, thank you very much.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
I can not accept any excuses for this type of crime against humanity and environment. Neither ignorance or poverty would do. I want these perpetrators caught and punished, and be made an example of. The damage they cause is far-reaching, and maybe irreversible. In my twisted view, these people are right up there with buccaneers, mafiosos and drug dealers. They must be dealt with before they irreversibly turn our paradise into desert.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Increase military presence at the border, I mean bring in thousands, not 600. Arrest everyone breaking the law, regardless of nationality and legal status. Government needs to come up with mid-term and long term solution for this issue. Military presence is a mid term one; the wall and reforming immigration laws may be a long term one. Mexico has a good control of inbound illegal immigration at least on the northern states. Let's benchmark from them.
Written by: StanEarl, 12 Oct 2009 11:32 PM
From: United States
Dread what happen to all the intelligent Dominican we had on the site. I haven't been up here in weeks and for some reason I am reading nothing but bigotry and hateful post was up with that.
Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2009 12:08 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
From: Canada
Deforestration is not acceptable anywhere, nor at any time. We just have to think of its effect in many other regions of the world (ex. Brazil). However, reading some comments tonight makes me realize that some people's comments are just as stupid as some people's actions.
Thank you Atabey!
From: United States, Brooklyn
It's all for show... once the media loses interest in the topic, the army will be reverted to clubbing the people instead of defending the country from those who seek its destruction... foreign and domestic but mostly foreigner (HAITIANS)
From: United States, Brooklyn
It's all for show... once the media loses interest in the topic, the army will be reverted to clubbing the people instead of defending the country from those who seek its destruction... foreign and domestic but mostly foreigner (HAITIANS)
Written by: yumnuk3, 13 Oct 2009 12:57 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
Can someone please enlighten us on how the Haitian Government is going to solve the deforestation problem?
Written by: Belly, 13 Oct 2009 2:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Houston,Texas y San Francisco, DR
Yumnuk3
Can someone please enlighten us on how the Haitian Government is going to solve the deforestation problem?
They are going to solve it we already know that. Now is up to us to make sure they don't destroy our side of the island and the steps that have been taken lately is a step forward but in my believe the best strategy is to move the military families across north to south of the border that will take care of our two main problem of immigration and deforestation that is happening. The thing is that is lot worse than the avg Dominican think it is.
Written by: generoso, 13 Oct 2009 6:46 AM
From: United States, DR
Haitians are used to their predatory, scorch and burn ways for centuries, the same way they destroyed and cut all the trees in Haiti, including the thousands that were planted there by many charity, and environmental entities, even before they had a chance to grow to maturity.
Now they are doing the same, to our side of the border, and quickly moving eastward.
A UN observer remarked that Haitians prefer carbon (charcoal) for cooking, and even if they are administered free propane gas for cooking, they will still prefer and use charcoal.
We must defend our forests and protect them against this mindless devastation, at any cost.
Haitians carry this terrible genetical trait for tree cutting and wood burning custom from the old days, and hunger is no justification for the destruction of all life and vegetation.
Extreme penalties and retribution must be dispensed, with strong determination.
Written by: dipit99, 13 Oct 2009 7:27 AM
From: United States
Well in Boca Chica the cutting goes on and on 24 hours a day. I have called 1-809-200-0594 the environmental police and have sent emails to their site
http://www.medioambiente.gob.do/cms/index.php and no response here. It is a real shame. Here the cutters and burneers are both Haitians and Dominicans.
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 10:27 AM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
generoso,
penalty for cutting down trees illegally should be to have a part of a finger removed.
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 10:41 AM
From: United States
Professor,
"We must defend our forests and protect them against this modern locust plague, at any cost.
Haitians carry this terrible genetical trait "
I have much respect for you and would hope you consider taking this comment back and assigned it to a temporary lack of good judgment.
That type of thinking and statement is more in line with Hitler’s "Final Solution" than from the decent man I have come to think you are!
Written by: generoso, 13 Oct 2009 11:34 AM
From: United States, DR
josean
Take this advise from someone who has an encyclopedic knowledge about Haitian-Dominican history, the comment is valid from an anthropological point of view, the fact is that Haitians are very primitive and basic persons, still firm to their African tribal customs, no one can deny that.
The Haitian dilemma is equivalent to this scenario:
Many Haitians floating in the ocean, and desperately trying to board a lifeboat full of Dominicans, already packed to the max, without any spare room, food or water, with Dominican survivors (the boat is our country). If they are let on board the whole boat will sink. So what do you do?
1. Do not allow them to board at any cost to defend the integrity of the lifeboat.
2. Be compassionate and let all on board and let the boat sink and all perish.
3. Wait until the boat gets to shore and send for help, and throw them as many lifesavers as can be spared.
Which one would you choose? or Do you have any other solutions?
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 12:00 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
josean,
this has gotten out of hand. in a few decades there will be no real Rep Dominicana
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 12:38 PM
From: United States
Professor,
The Germans were probably one of the most advanced and “knowledgeable” of societies in 1930's yet that did not prevent them from using the similar arguments against Jews, you and others here are use against a people whose only crime is having been born poor and BLACK.
The solution to the problem is that decent and fair Dominicans demand that their government institute polices that truly develop the country, pay a living wage to Dominican nationals and penalize those business that only think about excessive profits and suppress wages forcing Dominicans into El Canal de La Mona and attract desperate Haitians to DR. Once the Haitians elite cannot use the pressure relief valve of sending the problem across the border the Haitian masses will get rid of their corrupt polices and politicians as well.
Written by: zak325, 13 Oct 2009 12:46 PM
From: United States
Sooner or later, this kind of thing is going to spark a paramilitary movement in the DR, "concerned citizens" will arm themselves and enforce the border where the government has been lacking. They will take matters into their own hands (this also provides the plausible deniability the government could be looking for) if violence occurs. At some point, some political party will rally around this issue because of the passions it raises and the real threat to the nation's enviorment. Border encorcement must be effective now before the situation reaches the boiling point.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Oct 2009 1:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I will only add to this discussion a reenactment of a discourse said by Duplessis-Mornay, in discussing the french wars of religion, adapted to the current dominican reality:
"Miserable country, miserable state, whom its own citizens wish rather to survive (or flee), than to die to defend it! Let the name of Evangelical and of Catholic, Anti-Dominican or Patriot be never heard of more. Let us think only of the counter-league. Is Santo Domingo to be saved by opening all its gates to Haiti? Is Santo Domingo to be turned out of Santo Domingo, to make a lodging for the Gringo oligarch and the Haitian? Pregnant questions, which can not yet be answered, for the end is not yet. Santo Domingo has to become still more and more a wilderness. And well did that same brave and thoughtful lover, of his country declare, that he who should suddenly awake from a sleep of twenty-five years, and revisit that once beautiful land, would deem himself transplanted to a barbarous island of cannibals."
Written by: StanEarl, 13 Oct 2009 1:01 PM
From: United States
Josean , you hit it right on the nail Brother, Touche..you see you have an intelligent and reachable solution instead..compare to some if the people in this forum. Bashing and hatred won't bring change only the right and feasible solutions people...
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 1:12 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
to all...
those who do not care about our enviroment and the Dominican land should not have any human rights...They should be deported and banned from entering Dominican soil ever again. I understand if you are illegal you have certain rights but if you are chopping down anything that you see then you should not have any rights period.
From: United States
those that have been bashing actually are the reasons why these fools are getting arrested. o but its okay to break in and rob peoples homes according to you Fran! dominicans will not tolerate this mess because we have a love for country and land and will defend tooth and nail. Fran you will never understand as you continue to side with the victim and false humility.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Oct 2009 2:40 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
During Balaguer if you cut a tree you were like killing a human being. It used to be a taboo to cut a tree you know when we have law and the govt enforced it.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
This is a practice that need to stop, these charcoal mafia's are the biggest threat to Haiti. As a Haitian nothing is more vexing to me than this issue. Those that cut down the trees are doing it because it's a good business for them. As someone of the Haitian upper class when I travel to the country side when I try to talk to these morons about the ecological disaster they are creating the answer I get is "Boss man you don't want us to eat". Because this is their source of revenue. On that one we need the tonton macoute back. This is a big cause of flood and erosion in Haiti. The saddest part is those that engage in this practice knows that.
Written by: generoso, 13 Oct 2009 2:47 PM
From: United States, DR
Comparing my point of view to the Germans and the Jews during the holocaust is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals.
Solving another country's problems by shoving them to their seemingly better off neighbor is no solution.
Dominicans are not responsible for Haiti's ills and historical messes, we have been invaded by Haiti militarily 11 times, and Dominicans have never invaded Haiti. Haitians are invading us again, this time peacefully, without weapons, but very aggressively, in cahoots with France, USA, Canada and now Brazil.
No argument can justify the deliberate campaigns to have Haitians migrate to DR, often duped in empty promises of jobs, by modern slave merchants. The Haitian government is using the DR as an escape valve to send us their sick, poor, homeless, unemployed, elderly, pregnant women, and minor children, for the DR to take care, feed, provide health, housing and educate.
This dormant volcano will soon erupt.
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 3:02 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
DR has a tiny border compared to other countries. We only have to worry about immigration from the west. I don't see how this is difficult, some countries have to worry about immigration from the north, south, east, and west and they do a better job than DR
From: United States
Pat Diamond, i am, like you, distressed by the fact that Haitians have completely turned their country into a treeless wasteland, by chopping down every living shrub for firewood and charcoal. even more disturbing is the fact that some choose to repeat the malady in someone else's country. however, in response to your posting, there are a few questions to be ventilated
1 why are they cutting down the trees? well, we know it is because they cannot afford other energy sources such as propane and electricity
2 what would you suggest they do,in order to survive? surely, it is an egregious offense to nature, and to the DR. but, what their leadership has done to them, placing them in this mess, is equally egregious. the DR has to eradicate this practice within its borders. but the questions and answers are a little more complex than they appear on the surface.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Oct 2009 3:25 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
If we had a Dominican leader who only care about the dominicans we wouldn't be talking about the Haitians pest destroying our island.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
1 why are they cutting down the trees? well, we know it is because they cannot afford other energy sources such as propane and electricity
Resp. Brazil, US and Canada can help them setup a reliable source of energy.
2 what would you suggest they do,in order to survive? surely, it is an egregious offense to nature, and to the DR. but, what their leadership has done to them, placing them in this mess, is equally egregious. the DR has to eradicate this practice within its borders. but the questions and answers are a little more complex than they appear on the surface.
Resp. Haiti to become a Brazilian commonwealth, Canadian province or a French overseas department.
Any other solutions?
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
DR cannot offer solutions. We need help.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Oct 2009 4:15 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
You can see it in the tone of the OUTSIDERS how hurt malicious they are when they try to blame us for haiti's plight.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
@Dread
You are absolutely right . Currently there is a program in place that is very promising.the. Government been handing out these one burner portable stove which are made in Cuba to some in the population. I saw one in action very impresive little sucker with a small little tank.If this can be replicated in a large scale and the government find a way to subsidize the gas which I think is possible now Haiti is part of petro caribe along with an education for the masses on this matter we might be getting somewhere. With the Preval Gov that's in place we may have a good chance at addressing this issues specially now this erosion problem have become a major treat to the revitalization of the agriculture sector.
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 8:44 PM
From: United States
josean
To compare my point of view to the Germans and the Jews during the holocaust is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals.
Professor,
You, better than most, now that facts have no political ideology they are just facts and when they can’t be refuted people throw out defensives statements like: "is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals," but I will forgive you because I know you know better!
As to the rest of your statement between "SOLVING AND EXPLOSIVE" I agree with it 100%!
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 8:45 PM
From: United States
Professor,
Why was dread banned?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
DT Monitor,
This is a humble and open plea for reconsideration of whatever prompted the apparent censorship [dreaded yellow triangle] of one of the the best and most open-minded contributors to this medium, the guy we've come to know as "Dreadlocks".
Dreadlocks, affectionately called "Dr. Dread", is a man of great intellect, integrity and reason, and a great asset to this forum. He is even-keeled and focused and, more importantly, brings necessary balance.
It is needless to say that this medium is better for his contribution and great intellect.
Most of us would agree that, lately, discussions have been lacking in intellectual depth, and many introspective and eloquent contributors have left as a result. He is one of the last remaining great contributors to this important forum to the Dominican diaspora.
Please reconsider your position, and keep this valued individual an integral member of this medium.
Thank you.
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 8:54 PM
From: United States
I second that request!!!!!!!
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Oct 2009 9:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Ditto here.
Written by: dagtan, 13 Oct 2009 9:51 PM
From: United States
What!!, Dread has been banned, I did not know this piece of information. I have been battling MAIRABUENO, JR (LOST CAUSE) AND MICAELA to try and bring some sense into their arguments for the past few days. i am very sorry that I was in the darkness for a few days and missed this important piece of information.
Can someone please elaborate into what was the reason for banning and what were the reasons given by the administrators to ban DREAD.
We should make our petition for reactivation immediately and in a cogent manner. He is by far one of the most objective person on this forum and without him it will never be the same. the forum is often invaded by people who come on for their own personal agendas and never contribute further than that.
We need to stay balanced and fair across the board and not vow to anyone who will cry out foul whenever their argument is found leaking.
FINALLY, JOSEAN, LAUTARO, GLOMAEXPLORER, i AM ITH YOU ALL IN THIS.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
Sorry to dissapoint you (lost cause) but Whaever I post I do from the bottom of my heart and with lots of patriotism (NO BS BIGOTRY, RACISM, XENOPHOHIC OR ELSE), respecting somebody
else's human rights is one thing and the next one is to be weak and traitor.
You insist that you are "DOMINICAN" and I still don't buy for obvious reasons since your points of views are so "BIASED" against Dominicans that is hard to believe for anybody with common sense that your supposedly "LIBERAL" points of view have something to do with you being haitian instead of proving and selling a point that you support human rights.
Your "tiresome" agenda is not practical, logical or reasonable since not even 1st world countries
like France, Canada, US or any other european countries will find your policies to fit their best int
erest as civilized nations so therefore how in the hell you want to pick Dominican Republic
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
(cont)
To be a guinea pig for something that will take my country to be a "zombie" country full of diseases, poverty, backwards behavior "Vodoo", etc.
To give you an example that I'm not just pro-Trujillo, patriot, etc will suggest you to read
the book "The fate of Africa" by Martin Meredith so you can compare common sense to
live in la la land or "alice in Wonderland".
Buy, read the book and tell me what your liberal ideas foundation might have after you finish
reading this book, OK ! hopefully I did enlighted your PHD knowledge !
Written by: dagtan, 13 Oct 2009 10:32 PM
From: United States
Actually JR, DItto on that book, I will dig it out of my closet and go back and review it for your own liking. i got a master in American history at St. Johns University and this book was a great read in the African American course. I promise I'll dig it out, since it being a while that i finished at St. johns'
I will also recommend a or two book to you JR, it is very simple and a fast read, it should not take you long. The title of the book is "Why Cocks Fight" it is a very objective and intellectual view about the Dominican-Haitian relationship
The author is an American from Wisconsin, I believe, she manages to stay objective through the entire book, so it is not a LIBERAL LEFT WING NUT book. This is in all honesty, JR.
I also, recommend to every Dominican to read "The History of the Dominican Republic" by Frank Moya Pons. I believe that people in the DR have very little knowledge about their history, hence the colonial mind, so it is an important read. Take care JR
Written by: generoso, 13 Oct 2009 10:58 PM
From: United States, DR
josean
Regarding why dread was banned, I do not know, but since dread was one of the most enlightening and educated contributors, with a unique and florid verse, he will be surely missed, and I just hope that his "slip of the tongue", if that was the cause, should be forgiven, and dread be allowed to continue providing his profound and spicy insights.
From: Canada
As a linguist and professor, there is a very fine line between the right to express one's ideas... and the way they are expressed and interpreted!!!
After being disgusted yesterday, I must say that I notice "some" common sense coming back.
A lot of problems written about are world-wide, far from exclusive to the DR or easily dumpted on the back of our neighbouring countries... We all have border, economical, job related, ecological, illegal migrants, political insatisfaction, etc..... problems in our respective countries. If we read this newspaper and write, it's because we have at heart the development of the DR, for different reasons. Obviously, people just don't see it coming the same way... Where does change start? From the top or from within each person?
Written by: Lautaro, 14 Oct 2009 7:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The reason for his banishment, dag, was because of the running gun battle that he and CabareteWilliam have been sustaining on the forums on the last week, cuz' CW has been annyoing us for months on end with his anti-Obama threads, and dread finally had it with him and told him some bitter but painfully plain truths about his attitude in the original stinging way that only he can muster. I would give anything to have the capacity for sharp witticism that our comrade dread has.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
Peace !
From: United States
@PatDiamond
Instead of calling people morons why don't you help them find a better way than what they are doing. As a self-described member of that Haitian upper class (which I would not brag about) you should have the means to help these "morons" find a more productive occupation. Leadership is what's needed on this issue and it's sorely missing.
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 9:22 AM
From: United States
JR. I have the 2004/05 edition, "50 years after liberation" but there is anothr edition I saw on Amazon, which was published in 2006. Which one are you talking about.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
The fate of africa (A History of fifty years of independence) "Martin Meredith" 2005 edition !
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 9:32 AM
From: United States
Lautaro,
I though that I had also demonstrated to CW about his views on President Obama. He insisted that Obama was filling D.C. with zars which is not true, since Obama has less zars than Bush.
Also, bush had 42 assigned zars for 36 positions and Obama has currently 35 zars for 36 positions, so one is still vancant.
What is interesting is that CW simply refused to talk to me again since I showed that his argument did not hold water and it was patently false.
CW arguments are full of holes and the administrators should know that. Please administrators, do not pollute the make up of the forum by eleminnating some of the most enduring figures on it. I have been on the forum for about two years now and DREAD has always been outstanding.
Written by: Lautaro, 14 Oct 2009 12:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Despite all those facts, the guy still refuses to give Obama a chance, dag. What is worse, the majority of the aforementioned threads have only cut and pasted articles from the likes of Ann Coulter and other similar neocon blather. It's a crusade of sorts for him, to "enlighten" us colored "heretics" about the "foolishness" of the american people in electing a colored man to have the reins of the most powerful empire on earth.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
@esqlakay
I make no apology for the fact that my grand farther was an industrialist who started a business with nothing in 1947 in turn it to an economic engine for the grand anse region of Haiti. We built roads hospitals schools lobby the goverment and had the warth build. Most important we created jobs 2 coffee processing plants over 200 workers. Guess what when the Duvalier regime felt we lost everything all where distroyed by our political enemies our factories where burn to the ground no one gave a damn about those peoples jobs. We recover and move on that area never did economically our total lost 5mil USD. The elite of Haiti always get a bad rap,but the political class is even worst all they do is used this hatred toward us to get in power just to enrich them selves at least we work for our fortunes those bastard just raid the government coffer because of that all you end up with is animosity between both forces and Haiti vicious circle continue.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
On a positive note with the Preval administration I see a great deal of change happening for the the first time both sides are doing their part . The attitude of the ruling class is changing because we feel we have a partner we can work with and more important we realized we have to uplift the masses because at the end of the day we have to live on this island together. The saddest part about Haiti was for the longest part politic was a way for those from the bottom to rise and amass power and wealth, and because of that the political class was just a mirror image of the elite and the people got screwed.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
@ Abatey,
I brought the point of Haiti becoming a commonwealth or a political community of those states not for their historical responsibility, but for their interest and prominenence on the actions and solutions to Haiti and Hispaniola issues. When I stated that we cannot provide solutions, we need help is because I believe, there are economic and political powers driving this mess behind the scenes.
Have a question for you, how come Dominican Republic is not a contributor of the MINUSTAH?...We were either excluded by UN or the political class in Haiti did not want us around, so how the hell are you expecting a mutual collaboration if there is not trust.
@ dagtan and JRRubirosa,
The fate of africa (A History of fifty years of independence), take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrYqOJJEzx4Let me know your thoughts.
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 2:36 PM
From: United States
perlurdom, it is interested, that bring that book up, since JR did as well in another post the other day. I happened to have read the book during my days of attendance at the St. Jonh's University graduate school os arts. I will take a look at the vid however.
I did not find at the time any connection to the Dominican-Haitian relationship, but I promise to read the book again and try to see what you guys see that I did not.
Written by: agibus 
, 14 Oct 2009 2:41 PM
From: United States
amigo perludom we agree about a kind of communwealth in theory it works but in reality it is not the best option cos above all Haiti illetrism and no leadership no contribution for parnership.Saying UN exclude DR is not truth cos' the position of DR always is no intervention on the occupied haitian soil.This is a dominican political point.Of course DRarmy has the duty to protect the nation.But justice must codemn those ignorant haitian peasant to plant 10 times the number of trees they cut .Maybe they will serve for DR and Haiti environment.
Written by: Milos , 14 Oct 2009 4:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Probably this Haitians were working for other Army officer.
“We have destroyed dozens of furnaces in the last hours and arrested dozens of undocumented Haitians who chop down trees to make charcoal. We’ve also done the same with Dominican citizens who irresponsibly do the same,” the senior officer said.
And not they all have to buy charcoal in COLMADO of senior officer.
Written by: Milos , 14 Oct 2009 4:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
My late father Dr Philip Desmond; was a politician and the managing director of a Gold & Mine Ind in Kigali (the capital of Rwanda) before the rebels attacked our house one early morning and killed my mother and my father in cold blood.It was only me that is alive now and I managed to make my way to a near by country Senegal where i am leaving now as a refugee under a Reverend-Pastor's care and i am using his computer to send these message to you.
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discriminated, let them wipe out all the trees in the island so they can survive
As far as the Dominican citizens who are doing the same thing they should be fined for the value of such trees and sent to jail as well. also, the people who are buying this 'carbon" knowing that it is illegal should be fined as well. This will send a clear message to the forest destroyers on the island.
Trying to camouflage your haitian whereabouts?
And the Bi-national elites and governments who rob the resources of both countries to line their already over stuffed pockets get off Scot-free.
Then do this publicity stunt to make believe the really care about protecting the natural resources of the country! Once the “Haitian are responsible for all our problems,” Racist xenophobic paranoia serves its purpose, it will be business as usual for both sides of the border!
So all you "Final Solution" crowd don’t get your panties all twisted in an orgasmic lets exterminate them frenzy.
continued:
http://www.akbars.net/images/haiti-border.gif
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/....52/Hispaniola_AMO_2005077_lrg.jpg
Thank you Atabey!
It's all for show... once the media loses interest in the topic, the army will be reverted to clubbing the people instead of defending the country from those who seek its destruction... foreign and domestic but mostly foreigner (HAITIANS)
It's all for show... once the media loses interest in the topic, the army will be reverted to clubbing the people instead of defending the country from those who seek its destruction... foreign and domestic but mostly foreigner (HAITIANS)
Can someone please enlighten us on how the Haitian Government is going to solve the deforestation problem?
They are going to solve it we already know that. Now is up to us to make sure they don't destroy our side of the island and the steps that have been taken lately is a step forward but in my believe the best strategy is to move the military families across north to south of the border that will take care of our two main problem of immigration and deforestation that is happening. The thing is that is lot worse than the avg Dominican think it is.
Now they are doing the same, to our side of the border, and quickly moving eastward.
A UN observer remarked that Haitians prefer carbon (charcoal) for cooking, and even if they are administered free propane gas for cooking, they will still prefer and use charcoal.
We must defend our forests and protect them against this mindless devastation, at any cost.
Haitians carry this terrible genetical trait for tree cutting and wood burning custom from the old days, and hunger is no justification for the destruction of all life and vegetation.
Extreme penalties and retribution must be dispensed, with strong determination.
penalty for cutting down trees illegally should be to have a part of a finger removed.
"We must defend our forests and protect them against this modern locust plague, at any cost.
Haitians carry this terrible genetical trait "
I have much respect for you and would hope you consider taking this comment back and assigned it to a temporary lack of good judgment.
That type of thinking and statement is more in line with Hitler’s "Final Solution" than from the decent man I have come to think you are!
Take this advise from someone who has an encyclopedic knowledge about Haitian-Dominican history, the comment is valid from an anthropological point of view, the fact is that Haitians are very primitive and basic persons, still firm to their African tribal customs, no one can deny that.
The Haitian dilemma is equivalent to this scenario:
Many Haitians floating in the ocean, and desperately trying to board a lifeboat full of Dominicans, already packed to the max, without any spare room, food or water, with Dominican survivors (the boat is our country). If they are let on board the whole boat will sink. So what do you do?
1. Do not allow them to board at any cost to defend the integrity of the lifeboat.
2. Be compassionate and let all on board and let the boat sink and all perish.
3. Wait until the boat gets to shore and send for help, and throw them as many lifesavers as can be spared.
Which one would you choose? or Do you have any other solutions?
this has gotten out of hand. in a few decades there will be no real Rep Dominicana
The Germans were probably one of the most advanced and “knowledgeable” of societies in 1930's yet that did not prevent them from using the similar arguments against Jews, you and others here are use against a people whose only crime is having been born poor and BLACK.
The solution to the problem is that decent and fair Dominicans demand that their government institute polices that truly develop the country, pay a living wage to Dominican nationals and penalize those business that only think about excessive profits and suppress wages forcing Dominicans into El Canal de La Mona and attract desperate Haitians to DR. Once the Haitians elite cannot use the pressure relief valve of sending the problem across the border the Haitian masses will get rid of their corrupt polices and politicians as well.
"Miserable country, miserable state, whom its own citizens wish rather to survive (or flee), than to die to defend it! Let the name of Evangelical and of Catholic, Anti-Dominican or Patriot be never heard of more. Let us think only of the counter-league. Is Santo Domingo to be saved by opening all its gates to Haiti? Is Santo Domingo to be turned out of Santo Domingo, to make a lodging for the Gringo oligarch and the Haitian? Pregnant questions, which can not yet be answered, for the end is not yet. Santo Domingo has to become still more and more a wilderness. And well did that same brave and thoughtful lover, of his country declare, that he who should suddenly awake from a sleep of twenty-five years, and revisit that once beautiful land, would deem himself transplanted to a barbarous island of cannibals."
those who do not care about our enviroment and the Dominican land should not have any human rights...They should be deported and banned from entering Dominican soil ever again. I understand if you are illegal you have certain rights but if you are chopping down anything that you see then you should not have any rights period.
Comparing my point of view to the Germans and the Jews during the holocaust is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals.
Solving another country's problems by shoving them to their seemingly better off neighbor is no solution.
Dominicans are not responsible for Haiti's ills and historical messes, we have been invaded by Haiti militarily 11 times, and Dominicans have never invaded Haiti. Haitians are invading us again, this time peacefully, without weapons, but very aggressively, in cahoots with France, USA, Canada and now Brazil.
No argument can justify the deliberate campaigns to have Haitians migrate to DR, often duped in empty promises of jobs, by modern slave merchants. The Haitian government is using the DR as an escape valve to send us their sick, poor, homeless, unemployed, elderly, pregnant women, and minor children, for the DR to take care, feed, provide health, housing and educate.
This dormant volcano will soon erupt.
1 why are they cutting down the trees? well, we know it is because they cannot afford other energy sources such as propane and electricity
2 what would you suggest they do,in order to survive? surely, it is an egregious offense to nature, and to the DR. but, what their leadership has done to them, placing them in this mess, is equally egregious. the DR has to eradicate this practice within its borders. but the questions and answers are a little more complex than they appear on the surface.
Resp. Brazil, US and Canada can help them setup a reliable source of energy.
2 what would you suggest they do,in order to survive? surely, it is an egregious offense to nature, and to the DR. but, what their leadership has done to them, placing them in this mess, is equally egregious. the DR has to eradicate this practice within its borders. but the questions and answers are a little more complex than they appear on the surface.
Resp. Haiti to become a Brazilian commonwealth, Canadian province or a French overseas department.
Any other solutions?
You are absolutely right . Currently there is a program in place that is very promising.the. Government been handing out these one burner portable stove which are made in Cuba to some in the population. I saw one in action very impresive little sucker with a small little tank.If this can be replicated in a large scale and the government find a way to subsidize the gas which I think is possible now Haiti is part of petro caribe along with an education for the masses on this matter we might be getting somewhere. With the Preval Gov that's in place we may have a good chance at addressing this issues specially now this erosion problem have become a major treat to the revitalization of the agriculture sector.
To compare my point of view to the Germans and the Jews during the holocaust is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals.
Professor,
You, better than most, now that facts have no political ideology they are just facts and when they can’t be refuted people throw out defensives statements like: "is a cheap and below the belt response, typical of many "politically correct" leftist liberals," but I will forgive you because I know you know better!
As to the rest of your statement between "SOLVING AND EXPLOSIVE" I agree with it 100%!
Why was dread banned?
This is a humble and open plea for reconsideration of whatever prompted the apparent censorship [dreaded yellow triangle] of one of the the best and most open-minded contributors to this medium, the guy we've come to know as "Dreadlocks".
Dreadlocks, affectionately called "Dr. Dread", is a man of great intellect, integrity and reason, and a great asset to this forum. He is even-keeled and focused and, more importantly, brings necessary balance.
It is needless to say that this medium is better for his contribution and great intellect.
Most of us would agree that, lately, discussions have been lacking in intellectual depth, and many introspective and eloquent contributors have left as a result. He is one of the last remaining great contributors to this important forum to the Dominican diaspora.
Please reconsider your position, and keep this valued individual an integral member of this medium.
Thank you.
Can someone please elaborate into what was the reason for banning and what were the reasons given by the administrators to ban DREAD.
We should make our petition for reactivation immediately and in a cogent manner. He is by far one of the most objective person on this forum and without him it will never be the same. the forum is often invaded by people who come on for their own personal agendas and never contribute further than that.
We need to stay balanced and fair across the board and not vow to anyone who will cry out foul whenever their argument is found leaking.
FINALLY, JOSEAN, LAUTARO, GLOMAEXPLORER, i AM ITH YOU ALL IN THIS.
Sorry to dissapoint you (lost cause) but Whaever I post I do from the bottom of my heart and with lots of patriotism (NO BS BIGOTRY, RACISM, XENOPHOHIC OR ELSE), respecting somebody
else's human rights is one thing and the next one is to be weak and traitor.
You insist that you are "DOMINICAN" and I still don't buy for obvious reasons since your points of views are so "BIASED" against Dominicans that is hard to believe for anybody with common sense that your supposedly "LIBERAL" points of view have something to do with you being haitian instead of proving and selling a point that you support human rights.
Your "tiresome" agenda is not practical, logical or reasonable since not even 1st world countries
like France, Canada, US or any other european countries will find your policies to fit their best int
erest as civilized nations so therefore how in the hell you want to pick Dominican Republic
To be a guinea pig for something that will take my country to be a "zombie" country full of diseases, poverty, backwards behavior "Vodoo", etc.
To give you an example that I'm not just pro-Trujillo, patriot, etc will suggest you to read
the book "The fate of Africa" by Martin Meredith so you can compare common sense to
live in la la land or "alice in Wonderland".
Buy, read the book and tell me what your liberal ideas foundation might have after you finish
reading this book, OK ! hopefully I did enlighted your PHD knowledge !
I will also recommend a or two book to you JR, it is very simple and a fast read, it should not take you long. The title of the book is "Why Cocks Fight" it is a very objective and intellectual view about the Dominican-Haitian relationship
The author is an American from Wisconsin, I believe, she manages to stay objective through the entire book, so it is not a LIBERAL LEFT WING NUT book. This is in all honesty, JR.
I also, recommend to every Dominican to read "The History of the Dominican Republic" by Frank Moya Pons. I believe that people in the DR have very little knowledge about their history, hence the colonial mind, so it is an important read. Take care JR
Regarding why dread was banned, I do not know, but since dread was one of the most enlightening and educated contributors, with a unique and florid verse, he will be surely missed, and I just hope that his "slip of the tongue", if that was the cause, should be forgiven, and dread be allowed to continue providing his profound and spicy insights.
After being disgusted yesterday, I must say that I notice "some" common sense coming back.
A lot of problems written about are world-wide, far from exclusive to the DR or easily dumpted on the back of our neighbouring countries... We all have border, economical, job related, ecological, illegal migrants, political insatisfaction, etc..... problems in our respective countries. If we read this newspaper and write, it's because we have at heart the development of the DR, for different reasons. Obviously, people just don't see it coming the same way... Where does change start? From the top or from within each person?
Peace !
Instead of calling people morons why don't you help them find a better way than what they are doing. As a self-described member of that Haitian upper class (which I would not brag about) you should have the means to help these "morons" find a more productive occupation. Leadership is what's needed on this issue and it's sorely missing.
The fate of africa (A History of fifty years of independence) "Martin Meredith" 2005 edition !
I though that I had also demonstrated to CW about his views on President Obama. He insisted that Obama was filling D.C. with zars which is not true, since Obama has less zars than Bush.
Also, bush had 42 assigned zars for 36 positions and Obama has currently 35 zars for 36 positions, so one is still vancant.
What is interesting is that CW simply refused to talk to me again since I showed that his argument did not hold water and it was patently false.
CW arguments are full of holes and the administrators should know that. Please administrators, do not pollute the make up of the forum by eleminnating some of the most enduring figures on it. I have been on the forum for about two years now and DREAD has always been outstanding.
I make no apology for the fact that my grand farther was an industrialist who started a business with nothing in 1947 in turn it to an economic engine for the grand anse region of Haiti. We built roads hospitals schools lobby the goverment and had the warth build. Most important we created jobs 2 coffee processing plants over 200 workers. Guess what when the Duvalier regime felt we lost everything all where distroyed by our political enemies our factories where burn to the ground no one gave a damn about those peoples jobs. We recover and move on that area never did economically our total lost 5mil USD. The elite of Haiti always get a bad rap,but the political class is even worst all they do is used this hatred toward us to get in power just to enrich them selves at least we work for our fortunes those bastard just raid the government coffer because of that all you end up with is animosity between both forces and Haiti vicious circle continue.
I brought the point of Haiti becoming a commonwealth or a political community of those states not for their historical responsibility, but for their interest and prominenence on the actions and solutions to Haiti and Hispaniola issues. When I stated that we cannot provide solutions, we need help is because I believe, there are economic and political powers driving this mess behind the scenes.
Have a question for you, how come Dominican Republic is not a contributor of the MINUSTAH?...We were either excluded by UN or the political class in Haiti did not want us around, so how the hell are you expecting a mutual collaboration if there is not trust.
@ dagtan and JRRubirosa,
The fate of africa (A History of fifty years of independence), take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrYqOJJEzx4
Let me know your thoughts.
I did not find at the time any connection to the Dominican-Haitian relationship, but I promise to read the book again and try to see what you guys see that I did not.
“We have destroyed dozens of furnaces in the last hours and arrested dozens of undocumented Haitians who chop down trees to make charcoal. We’ve also done the same with Dominican citizens who irresponsibly do the same,” the senior officer said.
And not they all have to buy charcoal in COLMADO of senior officer.