Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 10:49 AM
From: United States
Even the Big Boys are feeling the heat as their little dirty secret has gone out to the world!
From: United States, Rock Hills, North Carolina
"...There’s no possibility to prevent the migration from Haiti to Dominican Republic, not even rich countries have solved the migratory problem,” Carter said in the recent visit, whereas Charles Shapiro, of the U.S. State Department’s Hemispheric Affairs Office, affirmed that “Haiti and Dominican Republic’s problems cannot be tackled as two separate things.”
Hahahahaha!
Good luck convincing my compatriots, buddy.
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 12:06 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
its not just the border towns... Santiago is full of illegals. Cops need to round them up, no papers no stay
Written by: bienamor, 13 Oct 2009 12:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From your statement
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 12:06 PM
From: United States, Chicago
its not just the border towns... Santiago is full of illegals. Cops need to round them up, no papers no stay
I would assume then that you would have not problem with the US/Puerto Rico doing the same?
From: United States
@bienamor:
Anytime this issue of Haitian immigration comes up, if it's not accusations of racism, xenophobia, ultra-conservative nationalism, etc then it's this idea that we don't feel the way towards our illegal Dominicans in other countries as we do towards Haitians. I can't speak for xwill7, but as I fully support the outright expulsion of Haitians I support the deportation of illegal Dominicans in the States and Puerto Rico. If they are deported for crimes they should be severely dealt with.
From: United States
josean,
Still afraid to make long statements ?
Still speaking in code ?
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Bienamor said:
"I would assume then that you would have not problem with the US/Puerto Rico doing the same?"
People need to understand that Dominican immigrants represent an insignificant % of the illegals in the US and elsewhere in the world. Dominicans may be poor and uneducated, but we all are extremely interested in getting our immigration documents setup, using a wide variety of methods ie. Arranged marriage, changing their names, etc...Not like other latin american citizens from Mexico and Central America that stay and live illegally for decades.
From: United States, New York, NY
I am of the opinion that we do not NEED them. Big business always brought them as cheap labor in order to protect their profit margins. If they are held accountable, we can see change we can believe in.
Human Rights can be respected - illegal Haitians can be peacefully removed.
From: United States, New York, NY
I am no intellectual but I disagree with these American presidents. Do they mean "... cannot be tackled as two separate things (because we don't want to Haitians to suffer even greater setbacks)?"
I see no reason why our issues can't be tackled alone and apart from the Haitian issues. We can help them when we can, in any way we can without negatively affecting the PRIORITY, Dominicans and the Dominican Republic. This should be our only immediate concern. Everyone else needs to be a distant second. No special treatment for anyone!!
I think there would be little labor shortage. If somebody needs to do the work, then the laws of the free market and supply and demand dictate that wages will have in to increase in order to attract Dominican workers. The cost of food and construction would increase as well but more employed Dominicans is a good things for the short and long term.
Written by: josean, 13 Oct 2009 8:23 PM
From: United States
perlurdom states:
"but we all are extremely interested in getting our immigration documents setup, using a wide variety of methods ie. Arranged marriage, changing their names, etc."
So you break the law by immigrating illegal and then you continue to break the law in a multitude of ways to become “legal” and that makes us better than Mexicans and Haitians!
Please explain that logic to me!
Written by: dagtan, 13 Oct 2009 11:12 PM
From: United States
Josean and perlurdom, it is quite clear that Dominicans come to U.S. and P.R. illegally in high numbers. However, as perlurdom indicated they will use illegal means to get their papers setup quickly and continue living as if they had never done anything illegal. In all honesty I have no issue with that, since they pay an exorbitant amount of money to get their papers. At the same time they are doing something illegal and if they are caught they should pay with jail time if necessary.
Unfortunately the haitians do not have such privileges in the DR since their presence is clearly not wanted by the Dominican natives. Moreover, they will not be able to get documents illegally as Dominican do, due to the fact that there is an institutionalized system in the DR that it is clearly set up to maintain their migratory status without deportation.
This system is both based on interest and the sense of inferiority that Haitians present in the DR. I think that it i really good,
Written by: dagtan, 13 Oct 2009 11:19 PM
From: United States
that the corporations are coming out and speaking on the ills of the Haitian migration on the DR. However, I am not so sure that they are willing to give up their bottom line to rid the DR of haitians. Their main priority at this point is to cool off the stoves and then move on for another 20 years of chaos.
All I ask is that if when the DR finally comes out with a plan to deal with the issue, that this plan will guide itself by the human rights legislation that are in place and that each haitian national that is to be deported is afforded all the natural human right that every human deserve. We ca not simply tarnish the DR reputation more than what it is by carrying out such plans base on inferiority views by the Dominicans toward haitians.
Sometime I wonder, if the reaction would have been the same, if the migrants were from KOSOVO or MONTE NEGRO, who btw have the lowest academic and are considered the haitian of europe. I am simply thinking out loud, they will not,
Written by: dagtan, 13 Oct 2009 11:24 PM
From: United States
be able to contribute in any way possible to the DR, just as the haitian do today. nor will they be able to communicate, just as the haitians do today and they will have to use the hospital and schools, just as the haitians do.
i wonder, will they be welcomed or repatriated. This brings to mind, Trujillo, as to how he imported a huge number of CANARIAN citizens who have no education and did not contribute to the country in any advancement of technology, schools, education and culturally, just as the haitians were doing during those times. But the haitians were slaughtered at that time, while the CANARIANS with the same skill level were imported.
You guys make some sense of this and comment as you wish.
From: United States
The truth is, the Dominican government , the American and the European investors profit from the Haitian situation in DR. It's good business for them.
It has been reported Dominican soldiers along the borders get bribed by special interest groups inside the Dominican Republic to let the Haitians in.
The cheap labors that the Haitian peasants bring to the Dominican Republic makes the Dominican Republic a magnet for investors, and more investment in the Dominican Republic is translated into more tax revenue for government.
From: Dominican Republic
josean, what part of Haiti you are from? your comments no parecen from a Dominican de pura cepa.
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 7:29 AM
From: United States
gladiator, can you please give me the definition of what is a Dominican de pura cepa. Be as eloquent as possible, please.
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 12:29 PM
From: United States
Atabey, thank you for your input. As you can see the post is far from a statement or political stance, instead is a satirical writing that is intended to get as many opinions as possible. As you can see it worked with you and you posted your two cents, which is great.
Sometimes I just love these big what if posting and see what others are thinking. I hope that you did not take the Kosovans and montenegrans migration possibility as a factual possible event, since it will never happen. But I think that it is worth a million dollar your statement on the acceptance.
It is clear that haiti post a clear and danger situation to the future of another third world country, but there is an undelining of racism when it comes to haitians.
By no means saying that the DR is racist, but it looks at the haitians as a lesser human form. By definition: RACISM: IS THE BELIEVE THAT ONE RACE IS BETTER OR SUPERIOR THAN ANOTHER. I paraphrased the webter on this so it is not exact.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
Since you are the Haitian advocate what about 1822-1844 ?
Was a Cinderella story or the history is lying to us?
Do you think Dominicans would have the same animosity against
Haitians if this would never happened??
Your arguments are still weak and biased, once again color of the
skin has nothing to do, can you explain to me the how come haitians are not
welcome in most of the black Caribbean islands.
Last but not least if Canada, US and France want to teach us Dominicans a Les
son in human rights how come they never open their borders without limitations
to the Haitians, again everybody want to take Dominicans as their guinea pigs to
merge both countries mixing good with bad,
I still strongly believe that you are not Dominican at all and it takes respect and honor
away from you when you hide behind a camouflage identity, don't get me wrong I res
ect you in a way but please don't take me as a fool since I might be older than you
and maybe wiser.
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 9:10 PM
From: United States
JR, I do not know if you are older, maybe, who knows maybe you can be my father, since I am pretty young. Please do me a favor and read the posting carefully, plus I never spoke the blackness of the Haitian people.
In the DR we are 84% mullatoes and black with a few mestizos here and there, 16% of our population is white (mostly spaniars, but you must factor in the jews and others) Haiti is 99% and 1% white (usually the elite). We in the DR are no position to discriminate anyone for being black, that will be lunacy and insanity. If there are Dominicans who see others a lesser due to the color of skin (either black, white or yellow) then they are morons, because they have no idea where they are coming from.
To make my case clearer, the Rwandan genocide was no based on color of the skin, but on tribalism and past grievances against the totsies and the hutus. The hutus were afraid that the totsies (typo) will take their land, so they set out to dehumanize them. The process of
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 9:18 PM
From: United States
dehumanization is complex, but i try to be brief. This process takes place when one group creates propaganda demonizing another. This propaganda always has reasons, and in the DR there is reason, but see lots of demonizing here on this forum and it means that its also among the people back home. Since i heard it and seen it with my own eyes.
Once you get a people to look at another from a dehumanized lens, then its easier to mistreat them, kill them injustly, attack them and finally getting rid of them at any cost. the ordinary people lose their sense of morality and ethical responsibilities when they view another group as lesser humans.
No one can deny that such sentiments exist in the DR toward the haitians, granted due to their invasion of the island at the turn of the 17th century and the ongoing crossing in to the DR territory. however, at the end of the day, this does not makes them less human than any other. This is my point JR, as I said before, think what you want,
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 9:19 PM
From: United States
i am human first and dominican second. remember, being dominican is not a race, but part of an ethnical group. therefore, we are all part of the human race first and second part of an ethnic group that is called dominican.
Finally, you surely sound like one those crazy birthers that have doubts about president Obama just because he does not share their views. you come across as a very short cited person when you behave like that. hey call the FBI and CIA so they can come and deliver a copy of my birth certificate to you. Maybe, then you will conduct a geneology test to see if I genetically have any haitian blood in me, because no Dominican is sensitive to other's ply or has the ball to stand up against the majority on topic. If you go for the geneology test I am pretty sure that we both come out with some haitian in us., maybe 10-15 generations ago, but i think it could be found.
Written by: Micaela, 14 Oct 2009 10:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Very enlightening Dagtan. Poor Haitians, in their own country they are demonized; because they are darker and poor, they are not treated like human beings and their basic human rights are summarily denied. They were/are sold as laborer for the sugar fields, and nobody cares about their living conditions or if they live at all. In Haiti their children are little slaves (restaveks), nobody cares if they starve, have not clean water, jobs, health care, education, safety or human dignity. They are nothing, just surplus population that can be push out of Haiti, even to drawn in the sea, or be enslaved somewhere else, but out side Haiti.
Being used to that treatment and that view of themselves should be the reason why in 209 years they have not fight, but take meekly their lot. Not wonder that in DR, USA, the Caribbean Islands and elsewhere the demonizing continues. At least Dominicans sort of have an excuse, which is the Haitians one?
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 10:53 PM
From: United States
Micala, just because they are treated as such, it give us no justification to behave like them. You are one that often talks about how Dominicans will be set back culturally, civilizationally, economically, and so on. If we are as civilized as you profess we are, them, why not show it?
As a civilized nation, but with less than 15% of our population with post graduate schooling and 65% of general population with some compulsory education, it is hard to make the case of civilization and refinement to the international community.
However, the DR is without questions at least 75 years ahead of haiti in every facet of human development, then the argument could be made that we are highly civilized when compared to haiti. So on that premise, should the DR lower its moral and ethical standard which it worked so hard to get through the painful process of civilization, when dealing with the haitians?
I do not think so, Micaela, we need to stay above the fray or get down and dirty,
Written by: dagtan, 14 Oct 2009 10:55 PM
From: United States
which side are you on micaela? I hope that by now you know which side I am on, otherwise, it is not worth continuing our intellectual conversation.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 12:04 AM
From: Dominican Republic
BTW ,Kosovars are not as backwards as Haitians because even if both are without FORMAL education the difference is in the culture and Haitians start from the most backwards culture of them all on this planet so unless a Haitian is subject to formal education he/she has nothing else except a primeval base culture to rely on and that makes it hard to adapt to modern society when you still believe in vodoo and cannot speak a fully formed language .
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:
I'm stilll debating if 1822-1844 happened or not ?
Maybe Dominicans are lying and Haitians didn't killed so many innocent Dominicans?
But want to see you defending why Haitians are not welcome anywhere else in this planet even
the same islands in the Caribbean (BLACKS) like the haitians look at them as a locust plague.
But then agains Dominicans have to be the only stupid race in this planet that is supposed to
bend over and let haitians destroy our country (cutting trees), bring diseases that we erradicated
50 years ago (i have a friend of mine which is a doctor in the border), afrikanized our land like
I We would have a jungle out of order.
How come Canada and US don't open their borders and let few thousand of haitians migrate
to places like Florida or Montreal; plain and simple (They don't give a rat ass about haitians) but
instead want to stick this annoying issue to the Dominicans like We are stupid.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
(cont)
Regarding the propaganda I think "Dagtan" than then the whole international community is wrong
and haitians are right (Nobody wants to welcome haitians in their countries).
Feel sorry for your confused nationality because I know that you are Haitian and not Dominican
and this is why you will never recognize that your country (haiti) is wrong not Dominican Republican and if you want to solve the issues in your motherland lots of work have to be done
(by your goverment) not involving Dominicans since We don't want to get involved with your issues.
"Dios, patria y libertad"
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 9:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Rubirosa I don't agree with you ,I do think Dagtan was born Dominican or of Dominican parents but he is worse than a Haitian because I understand them defending their country .What you don't want to accept is that we have and have always had traitors amongst us and many Dominicans in the US have been infected with the afrocentric virus which kills any Dominican cells in their bodies and they become the worst enemy because they open the proverbial door to the invaders and stab their own people in the back.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 9:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
What I have noticed is how uncomfortable most of these pseudo Dominicans are with the Spanish language which makes it obvious that their only sources are in the English language and mostly being in the Ghetto they are exposed to afrocentric writers which despise Dominicans for not rolling over to the Haitian invasions ,they despise the fact that Dominican Republic did not massacre all its European inhabitants and that those inhabitants remained the power structure in DR . They prefer to believe the fantasies of Haitian "greatness" espoused by the afronazi mentors in universities ,they prefer to believe that Haitian illiterate hordes somehow beat the French when it is obvious that it was the might mosquito that defeated the French otherwise why would they feel FORCED to pay an indemnity and why would those Haitian armies be beaten multiple times by a rag tag bunch of Dominicans.
Not content with their genocidal frenzy in the west the Haitians marched to the east in a blood and rape
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 9:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic
funny how that only applies in one direction
because many "blacks" in the US ,including the current joker are not black but in reality are just as white as they are black but try to tell this to a REAL racist (black or white) .Funny how the AfroNazis and the KKK agree on so many things ,only change the designation (black ,white) and they could actually use each others writing material.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 9:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic
filled rampage ,they then wanted to abolish the Spanish language and all our institutions but such a barbaric group would not be able to keep a much more enlightened population under its control for long even though they were vastly greater in number Dominican troops under Santana ,Imbert,Duverge turned the tables on the Haitians making their numerical superiority (sometimes 10 to 1 ) disappear .
Thats why Jamaica ,Barbados and other countries are given a pass because they accept their "African roots " while Dominican Republic continues to state it is a multiracial state and that bothers the racists who support the one drop rule meaning if one eighth of you blood is African then you are black even if the rest is Scandinavian ,
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 3:39 PM
From: United States
Wow, I guess that both of you guys have been having a frenzy feeding today. It is so nice to see you guys fill each other's ultranationlistic behaviors. The fact that I refused to answer to your spanish language posting is because this site's main language is English and that should be respected. I am not trying to keep non-spanish speaking members away from what I have to say, plus is of low class to use another language when you know that the majority of people and the country where you are speaks one that is different from the one you are using, when you know how to use that set language.
It only shows your lack decency and low knowledge of protocol when it comes to showing you social skills. When it comes to Africanization of the DR, do you think that we can be ore african that what we already are? If yes, in what area of our daily lives could the DR be more African than what it is? The fact that you do not see it, is due to your lack of search and perifferal vision. cont
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 3:45 PM
From: United States
No one here have ever say that the DR should turn a blind eye to the problem. Instead, everyone here comes on and clearly states that they will like to see a comprehensive system put in place. But you guys want Haiti to do such thing, knowing full well that one, they do not have the desire to do so, two, they do not have the resources to do so and third, it is not in their best interest to do so. If that is the case, then who is to get it done? I think that you know the anwer to such question, if you do not know, then, I feel sorry for lack of cognitive processing on the issue at hand.
FINALLY, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOVE MY COUNTRY AND STILL LOVE JUSTICE. You guys are such a disgrace, what really gets me about you is that you think that Dominicans are not able to recognize justice when it comes to the haitian issue. We are no beasts, we are human and we have feelings, if the people that supoort are the ones that do not value life for what it is, then yours should not be given,
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 3:50 PM
From: United States
such privilege either.
Everyone in their mother knows that haitians are not good for DR, even the haitian elite knows this. But it is to their adavatge to have happen what is happening right now.
Just because someone identify with the respect for human life no matter what the situation is, that does not mean that do not care about DR. Because I care about how we are viewed and considered among other societies is precisely why I think that we should follow in the respect of human rights and give these people their basic right and stop dehumanizing them for god sake.
Such rhetoric does not work with the people that matter most and the Dominican elite knows, hence the reason why they stay away from making such ignorant and incendiary comments as the ones you guys make about haitians here.
As a young professional Dominican I am raelly ashame to know that there are people so norrow minded as you around. It only produces embarassment among us and the DR elite.
Written by: Micaela, 15 Oct 2009 5:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
How comes if you identify with the respect for human life no matter what the situation is, you don’t seem to care at all for the situation of the poorest Dominicans, on the contrary, you care far more for how we are viewed and considered among other societies than how they are faring. If you don’t know, they are human too and their human rights are violated when after sharing the meager resources they have with ungrateful people, making their life a lot harder, they are called racist, xenophobes.
You said all: “the people that matter most” but of course you are not ashamed of that, you are only to know that there are people so narrow minded as we, poor Dominicans, as far as you are concern, could just face a pride of hungry lion. I say, thanks God you are Dominican, I can imagine what you would say and feel if you were Haitian.
Written by: Micaela, 15 Oct 2009 5:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
How comes if you identify with the respect for human life no matter what the situation is, you don’t seem to care at all for the situation of the poorest Dominicans, on the contrary, you care far more for how we are viewed and considered among other societies than how they are faring. If you don’t know, they are human too and their human rights are violated when after sharing the meager resources they have with ungrateful people, making their life a lot harder, they are called racist, xenophobes.
You said all: “the people that matter most” but of course you are not ashamed of that, you are only to know that there are people so narrow minded as we, poor Dominicans, as far as you are concern, could just face a pride of hungry lion. I say, thanks God you are Dominican, I can imagine what you would say and feel if you were Haitian.
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 5:44 PM
From: United States
Micaela, once again, I must reply to you twisting the content and context i which my comments are posted. I care more about DR than even the U.S. a country that has provided me with the greatest opportunities and ability to acquire education, wealth and enjoy my human rights in safe an healthy way. However, we look at things from a different vantage point which could be distorted due to our location of residence.
When i said, the people that matter most, those are the legislators and business men in the DR. I do not count Haiti on any creation of comprehensive immigration for the Haitians, since they do not care, when are you going to understand that the haitian legislators and elite do not care about the ply of the Dominicans, therefore, stop calling on them to act.
Also, Dominicans do not have to share their meager resources with the haitians ungrateful, which i do not know how you have come to conclude they are ungrateful. but that is beside the point. All that needs to
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 5:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Micaela ,he does not give a rats ass for Dominicans ,he is more concerned with being politically correct and blaming the Dominican elite (one of the few truths in his self serving rants) but forgetting that the main victims in this are the Dominican population who are not responsible for the cesspool that Haitians created from their birth as a "nation" and that have never cared for the Dominican Republic except to try and conquer it for . Now the Dominican population is expected to be "educated" and proper when its very survival is at stake .
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 5:51 PM
From: United States
be done is to stop the invasion at all cost. But if you want the influx to stop, you must hold the people that matter the most accountable for stopping the influx. By dehumanizing the haitians and focusing your anger on the haitians, the people that matter most are winning the war, by having people like you divert the anger from them toward the haitians and haiti.
You must look at what Puerto Ricans did today. It is estimated that 1/2 million out of 4 million were on the streets in PR today due to the cuts. DR has has about 11 millions and more than 8.5 millions are poor, so think about mobilizing those people go to the streets and demand a stoppage to the haitian influx.
The people that matter most knows how to stop the influx, but they put their bottom line before you, Micaela. They are actually worse than haitians in my view, since they are doing it to their own people, so they be able to send their kids to boarding schools and eat well, while the rest is struggling.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 5:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Now dagtan takes a holier than thou approach to hide the sin Micaela exposes which is not caring about his own people under the pretense of being caring and just when in a just world we would not let even one Haitian enter DR because they have brought so much negativity and grief to DR the a hundred lifetimes would not be enough for us to trust them again and to top it off we only have to see what many of them still think about DR and their "rights" to our territory .We notwithstanding are actually a forgiving people and with the exception of Trujillo's unfortunate episode have not really responded to the continued Haitian aggression except to defend ourselves and now although we have close to 2 million interlopers in our land and many of them receive FREE medical care in DR we suffer constant attacks from Jesuits,NGO's,Afronazi's and unfortunately bad Dominicans that would sell out their mother .
I shudder to think that I share a nationality with such a person and that people like
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 6:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
that provide assistance to those that wish to sink DR.At least the Haitians are more true to their "tribe" they would not support us even when we are right and they love Dominicans that support their cause because it gives them a sense of legitimacy .
Bottom line ,the Haitians have to be removed from DR in the majority and it does not matter whose fault it is because the alternative is a whole island in disaster instead of one third and DR's existence as we know it would only be a memory .So we can either do this now the correct way (humanitarian) or we can wait to it explodes completely and the machetes and guns come out .Chamberlain and other cowards caused more death and pain by inaction which could have been avoided with much stronger earlier action.
Si vis pacem para bellum !!
Written by: Micaela, 15 Oct 2009 6:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Yes, you care more about DR, but do you care about Dominicans? You said the people that matter most, are the legislators and business men in the DR, you said also that do to how uneducated we are, we can't mechanize; but you have ever said anything of our poor children sharing their crowded classroom with Haitians and what is the effect in the quality of education they receive?
Once again, "all that needs to be done is to stop the invasion at all cost" Please tell me what country have ever stop the illegal immigration no matter what resources they use? But you request of the humble DR will be the first to do it and let us know that that is the only choice. The people that matter most to you are winning the war, by having people like me divert the anger from them, while the Haitians are wining our country by having people like you pretending that we ignore their massive presence, their amazing capacity to reproduce and what they are doing to DR.
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 6:35 PM
From: United States
Once again Micaela and pepe32 you guys are missing the point when it comes to the problem. You are placing much unnecessary weight on the problem at hand. Again, everyone knows that the haitians place tremendous burden on the DR and as always those that do not benefit from the influx are the ones to suffer the most. While the ones that benefit the most will not be affected and often have the means to control or eliminate the problem.
Yes the DR lacks the ability to progress due to the fact that it has an educational system that is only better than haiti's. Any country with such mediocre educational system will not be able to sustain any influx, be it small or large. again, the people that matter most in the DR have the capital to fund an educational system that will at least put the DR in part with Jamaica and bahamas when it comes to education production. Cuba is at least 50 years ahed of the DR when it comes to education so it can be compared.
the problem in the DR is,
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 6:42 PM
From: United States
easier than in other countries due to the small territory that it needs to control when it is compare to African, U.S., E.U. and Middle East, who have expansive borders.
There is no doubt that it will take a tremendous amount of resources that the haitians will never spend and the Dominican government is not willing to invest, neither the business class. Note, such money for the haitians will be looked upon themselves as an expenditure and for the Dominican it should look like an investment.
The only benefiting from a limited of zero illegal migration is the Dominican poor class, which has never being taken seriously by the Dominican elite. Therefore, if the poor class is not willing to rise and fight for their rights then nothing will ever happen as it has for the past 40 years.
you see, due to the lack of education is that they can not make the difference between the problem and the root causes. Maybe you should clarify that, since you live there.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 6:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
By the way DR has 9 plus million ,the extra 2 million are not Dominicans and would not go out to protest .You know very well the the common man is too busy trying to survive to go out on the streets but they do know that every Haitian that comes in takes something away from what little they have and that these haitians are the VISIBLE side of the problem .They cannot realistically reach out to the powers that be but instead will take out their frustrations on the visible manifestation of their problems and their reaction is what I fear most because while I would not support violence to solve issues the masses don't have any other way of expressing their frustrations .We have already seen several small sparks and with the current economic environment an explosion only awaits a catalyst and the government would not be able to contain the events .
Written by: Micaela, 15 Oct 2009 7:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
We miss the point but you don't answer how and with what resources you suggest we completely stop the illegal immigration and deport the ones already here, and how do you expect that we, lacking even education, could do something no other country in the world has been able to do. Once again, not answer for those important questions, but what is new?
So we lack the ability to progress due to the fact that our educational system is only better than Haiti, of course the overburden of Haitians in all our system have nothing to do with it, because you don’t understand that not matter how much is invested, the ever present Haitians would share and would not be enough. Now I wonder how many millions of illegal aliens are in Jamaica and Bahamas and how many of their children are in their education systems.
That airy everyone knows that the Haitians place tremendous burden on the DR sounds so dispassionate compare to your comments about racist, xenophobes and uneducated Dominicans.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 7:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Believe it or not the sentiments calling for a solution to this problem are increasing every day and attacks on DR by NGO's and foreign agents only drive people to more radical points and any discourse that ignores Haitians own hand in their situation is truly injust because all the blame falls on Dominicans and anyone who opposes Haitian immigration into DR is automatically labeled in unjust terms which does nothing to solve the issue instead causing a normal closing of the ranks.
On another note DR's educational system is not the greatest ,but to even allude to its proximity to Haiti's is ludicrous especially now. As far as Jamaica ,I must say the Anglophiles really have gotten to you because their educational system is not that great either and Cuba ....well an educational system with no freedom of expression is not truly educational rather indoctrinating good communists to serve the state.
You minimize DR which obviously has problems but which is steadily improving while
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 7:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic
or perhaps to minimize the paleolithic state of our neighbors to the west.
You spoke of elitism yet your view of my country is made obviously from an elitist point of view while the Haitians are given a pas by the left for making their third of the island almost uninhabitable ..(it's not their fault,it is due to the French,US, Europe all those damn Europeans ) because nobody wants to admit that most of Haiti's troubles are their own fault and akin to a 5 year old being living alone after killing his abusive parents and then instead of maturing ,blaming everyone for their problems.This is typical leftism and it is the cult of self-victimization constantly looking at others for their mistakes instead of looking at the mirror to see the main culprit..
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 7:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic
A Dagtan no le duele su pueblo tanto como el pueblo Haitiano dado el dogma de la negritud (Afrocentrismo)que dicta que porque ellos fueron victimas hace cientos de años hay que aguantarles todo y nosotros somos de poco importancia en la cause célèbre de este gente que es Haiti . Nosotros los Dominicanos solo somos un estorbo ,una piedra en el zapato de los designios de la izquierda internacional para la " solución ideal " al problema Haitiano porque es imposible poner como ejemplo glorioso la primera gran rebelión esclava "exitosa" cuando ha sido un fracaso rotunda en todos los sentidos.
El plan es retrasar nuestra reacción y cada día entran mas Haitianos en RD hasta que llegue a un punto sin regreso (sin violencia) .Y están abogan do por darle papeles a gente que violentaron nuestras fronteras y que ya están empezando a EXIGIR derechos como Dominicanos,poco a poco van tomando nuestro terreno y de seguir así no quedarán muchas opciones de dialogo pero los mismos que se oponen a
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 8:02 PM
From: United States
Pepe32, do you know that we are 84% black, so we should get the pass as you put due to our blackness. Once again I must confess that your point of view when it comes to the haitian issue is that of right neocon nut and mine is that of left utopian nut, yes, pepe32, I am a proud leftist who believe that problems can be resolved without resorting to the dehumanization of people due to the threat that they pose to the well being of another people.
pepe32, you are right, there is a steady movement toward solving the problem, but it will not be solved the way you want it to be solved. I believe that deportation should be an imminent status for the illegal haitians, however, I'll have a problem if they decide to separate the families. You know the Lie-onel government is grappling with that issue, since they know that it will not be tolerated in the international community.
the system should include some sort of amnesty to the haitians born on Dominican soil and those who have, c
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 8:08 PM
From: United States
families with dominican nationals. Haitians are already highly entrenched in the Dominican make up, i was surprise that did not know this. they not make up a large portion of the undeveloped agricultural industry, which btw still using a huge amount of manual labor, when it could be mechanized in order to increase production, so creating a surplus that can help fee the people.
But you are successful in omitting that this discrepancy in the dominican agricultural industry, which is the largest after the service industry, has staggered due to the lack of funding by the private sector and the lack of investment in creating training opportunities by the private and public sector. The haitians are not the largest and most important problem for the DR, since those issue that pointed above have been taking since lily.
However, you simply cry and cry about the haitian issue, not placing ownership of the problem on the DR elites and government. They allowed for the migration
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 8:14 PM
From: United States
to take place, due to heavy bleeding of youngster due to migration from the DR to other countries and the high wages that needed to be paid to natives. hold them accountable for allowing and motivating for the flood gates to open as wide as possible.
Also, your point that something is going to happen, yes I happen to agree with you. i hope that whatever happens, is not violent, even though i think that that is the only way the Dominican populace will response to the problem. This will exempt the elites and the government and simply demonized the people and future generations to come. The haitian government on the hand will be a winner by creating a system of victimization that has reason, unlike the unfounded one that they currently benefit from.
You have to stop your grievances toward the haitian government, since they will fall on death ears, has it worked for the past 15 years, which have seen the explosion. the people that could ended is us and no one else.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 8:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
toda repatriación son los mismos que pondrían el grito al cielo del "salvajismo" Dominicano cuando toda muestra de salvajismo haitiano es escusado y el que se atreve a mencionarlo es atacado de inmediato como un racista ,un xenofobia o peor un Nazi porque existen dos varas para medir en el mundo de estos seres injustos ,una para los Haitianos (compasiva,perdona todo,culpa a otros) y otra vara para el pueblo Dominicano (Intolerante ,Mal educado,Racista ) en fin Dagtan se siente con derecho de menospreciar todo lo Dominicano pero piensa que decir que Haití y los Haitianos son los mas atrasados del hemisferio es algo ofensivo ...¿es esa es la justicia de la cual el habla ?
Written by: dagtan, 15 Oct 2009 8:59 PM
From: United States
pepe32, I believe that my words toward the haitian state are very harsh indeed and do not create excuses for their actions. Also, I do not believe that they should get a break due to the hardships that that they experienced during colonialism, since we did as much as they did. This suffering not only came to the hands of the Spaniars bastards, haitian invasion(which was pretty evil it is essence) and then the multiple invasions by the U.S. both militarily and emotionally.
We are still struggling to rid ourselves of the colonial markings that the colonial left imprinted in our brains, so I do not simply blame dominicans or attack them, but i feel with more rights to talk about the inequalities that exists, since it is my people. i am concentrated on what happens at home and how to keep above the fray, rather than scape goat everything that is bad.
The haitians will not do anything, they need this migration, we do not, so we need to do it for them. Get that pepe32?
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Pepe32, do you know that we are 84% black, so we should get the pass as you put due to our blackness.
Again you apply the same one drop rule as the KKK and the Neo-Nazi’s ,you are in good company sir. We do not get a pass because we don’t accept this nonsense that calls a person who is equal parts black and white “black” ignoring one half of a persons identity and DNA and even worse someone who has 3 % black to be called black is so illogical only a dogmatic leftist (or a racist) could believe it !
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Once again I must confess that your point of view when it comes to the haitian issue is that of right neocon nut and mine is that of left utopian nut, yes, pepe32, I am a proud leftist who believe that problems can be resolved without resorting to the dehumanization of people due to the threat that they pose to the well being of another people.
The left has caused enough death and misery in its short history to make Attila the Hun blush.The willingness to destroy others to impose the utopic worldview and to assassinate the character (and eventually the person)of anyone who thinks differently .Admiration of a murderous left wing genocidal maniac belies that fake humanism you try to portray ,just like if I stated admiration for Trujillo,Somoza or Duvalier which I would never do so I guess compared to you I am a moderate..
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
pepe32, you are right, there is a steady movement toward solving the problem, but it will not be solved the way you want it to be solved. I believe that deportation should be an imminent status for the illegal haitians, however, I'll have a problem if they decide to separate the families. You know the Lie-onel government is grappling with that issue, since they know that it will not be tolerated in the international community.
I agree, they should not separate families ,all of them should be sent so they can be together in Haiti
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic
the system should include some sort of amnesty to the haitians born on Dominican soil and those who have families with dominican nationals. Haitians are already highly entrenched in the Dominican make up, i was surprise that did not know this. they not make up a large portion of the undeveloped agricultural industry, which btw still using a huge amount of manual labor, when it could be mechanized in order to increase production, so creating a surplus that can help fee the people.
The only consideration should be for individuals married to Dominican nationals or those that entered legally with some sort of visa.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
But you are successful in omitting that this discrepancy in the dominican agricultural industry, which is the largest after the service industry, has staggered due to the lack of funding by the private sector and the lack of investment in creating training opportunities by the private and public sector. The haitians are not the largest and most important problem for the DR, since those issue that pointed above have been taking since lily.
The Haitians are the single most important problem facing the DR
because all the other problems don’t pose an existential threat to the Dominican Republic and while the lack of Haitians would pose some short term issues in the long run we would have a healthier less ignorant and more progressive (in the real meaning not the left wing fake).
No matter what DR does in disease control ,population control ,reforestation, hygiene and education Haitians will not only stop any improvements but they will bring the country back ,again I know you don’t ca
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I know you don’t care about DR instead preferring Haiti Cherie but to us and to anyone with logic and love for DR 2 million Haitians are the beginning of the end for DR.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The overall concept is that this is a problem caused by HAITIANS to HAITIANS and they are not innocent in this whole fiasco
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
However, you simply cry and cry about the Haitian issue, not placing ownership of the problem on the DR elites and government. They allowed for the migration From: United States to take place, due to heavy bleeding of youngster due to migration from the DR to other countries and the high wages that needed to be paid to natives. hold them accountable for allowing and motivating for the flood gates to open as wide as possible.
You like to place blame for a complex issue on one group when there are many culprits in this one ; First and foremost the Haitian Government and elites ,second of all the Haitians themselves who instead of demanding THEIR rights in THEIR country and making the massive protests you say we should make decide to jump across the fence and violate my country because of the HAITIAN PROBLEM ,finally we have the Dominican elites that like Judas for a quick buck would sell their mother and they encourage the violation of the Dominican Republics border and laws. The ov
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The overall concept is that this is a problem caused by HAITIANS to HAITIANS and they are not innocent in this whole fiasco
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Also, your point that something is going to happen, yes I happen to agree with you. i hope that whatever happens, is not violent, even though i think that that is the only way the Dominican populace will response to the problem. This will exempt the elites and the government and simply demonized the people and future generations to come. The Haitian government on the hand will be a winner by creating a system of victimization that has reason, unlike the unfounded one that they currently benefit from.
The Dominican population is not being given much of a choice caught between a useless government ,a greedy elite and hypocritical foreigners that only blame DR when the cesspool was created by the Haitians and the Dominican population is demonized or ridiculed by people like you all the while you relieve the Haitians of all blame (of course except the Haitian elites) but again you show your colours because you don’t understand that the only way the government might take the situation se
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
the situation seriously is when violence erupts and at that point I will be there to defend my compatriots who were backed against the wall and reacted in the only way they knew .This will cause a mass exodus of Haitians and cause some short term problems but in the long run we will be much better of and if we can encourage some POSITIVE immigration than can improve DR instead of throwing us back.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You have to stop your grievances toward the Haitian government, since they will fall on death ears, has it worked for the past 15 years, which have seen the explosion. the people that could ended is us and no one else.
I don’t think much will be achieved by talking to the Haitian government because they don’t care and actually consider it a good thing in several ways; 1. They provide an escape valve for them 2. The slowly infiltrate the Dominican Republic and gain power in the east via THEIR nationals on Dominican soil.
I don’t expect much from the Haitian invaders because they are running from the failed experiment called Haiti and even when deported turn back no matter how BAD Dominicans supposedly are!
I don’t expect much from the people who make money from the Haitians while they sink DR deeper into poverty and backwardness and will eventually destroy any future DR might have .
.
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have trust in the Dominican Population which knows that the Haitians don’t belong here and that they are a clear and present threat and I know the population will react if the government does not
Written by: Pepe32, 15 Oct 2009 10:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You see ,why can you say Spanish bastards and you find it offensive if I say Haitian bastards especially when the Haitians have really been bastards to the DR ?? of course your twisted idea of justice comes into play.
We really have to get you to learn some Spanish so your world view is not so twisted ,I know you probably know more about African American studies than you do about Latin America and the Spanish or Hispanic culture .
Written by: dagtan, 16 Oct 2009 2:14 PM
From: United States
pepe32, I am glad to see that you agree with the majority of my posting. I have to say that I believe that my spanish is better than yours since it is my first language. English is my second language, so yes I am product of the much failed ESL-bilingual NYC system as you put it. I have been living in the U.S. less than 20 years which is a little more than what spend in the DR.
However, I have capitalized on those 20 years to fullest of the word.
Finally, the same way I depise all ther invadors, including the U.S. which I love dearly, I do depise the Sanish for their genocide on my ancestors and their highjacking of our brains throuhg the evils of colonialism. We were able to overcome the physical damages inflicted by the haitians and americans, but have not been able to over come the emotional inprint of colonialism and social class.
Written by: Pepe32, 16 Oct 2009 2:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Funny that you think your Spanish is good ,I have seen it in other posts and it is atrocious an obvious product of ESL and Bilingual education and lack of education in Spanish at home (sorry slang does not count) .I advise you don't even go there because you would sink very fast .
As far as agreement ,only in the sense that we are approaching a dangerous point otherwise no agreement especially for and admirer of the murderous Che who has the nerve to talk about human rights!
As far as having recovered from the Haitian influence I disagree because most all backwardness in DR comes from Haiti and that is there for everyone to see ,the Haitian "cultural" contributions to DR are exactly those of the most backwards culture in the world with the top 20 countries in backwardness and these elements have penetrated into the DR .
You hate Spain like most leftists hate all Europeans all while you complain when anything is said about your Afrocentric rabble in other words selective h
Written by: josean, 16 Oct 2009 6:25 PM
From: United States
These Cubanitos are so “smart” and so “brave” everywhere in the world but where it counts the Bay of Pigs and Havana!
Now they defend Spaniards who they really hate because Spain never broke diplomatic or economic relations with Fidel.
Written by: Pepe32, 16 Oct 2009 8:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Unfortunately for Haitians like Josean Dominicans know how to defeat Piti hordes having done so multiple times!
Selective Hypocrisy .
The "glorious" Haitian armies that supposedly defeated the French were defeated multiple times by some Dominican CRIOLLO farmers even though the Haitians outnumbered us many times over of course our CRIOLLOS weren't as susceptible to the mighty mosquito as the continental French armies .
The Cubans are a bunch of puss... because if Fidel were in DR he would have been worm food a long time ago and would have joined his infernal brethren in Hades.
Written by: Pepe32, 16 Oct 2009 8:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
depise all ther invadors, including the U.S. which I love dearly, I do depise the Sanish for their genocide on my ancestors
Supposedly your ancestors are from West Africa so there was no such genocide
Come on say you despise Haiti for their genocidal acts and multiple invasions ...I know you can crap on the US,Spain and DR as nations yet when it comes to Haiti which has been the worst thing to happen to DR all you can muster is "Haitian Elites" ,even the Dominican population is attacked in your writings yet the Haitians are exempt from any such criticism ...interesting ,no wonder Ruby thinks you are Haitian ,although I still think you are just a traitorous Dominican with twisted morals and an enlarged ego (another Haitian quality..) .
Perhaps Invading Haitian troops raped one of your ancestors and you feel that kinship but if so go to Haiti and help them there.
Written by: Pepe32, 16 Oct 2009 8:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic
depise all ther invadors, including the U.S. which I love
Please note that Dagtan supposedly "Loves" the US and yet he despises the US . He also admires many of the biggest enemies of the US.
He is one confused individual!!
And his mascot Josean or maybe his Haitian BF jumps in like an irritating chihuahua with his little inane remarks thinking himself somehow intelligent..
Written by: dagtan, 16 Oct 2009 10:04 PM
From: United States
pepe32, it seems like you are having fun again, dehumanizing the haitians. I have never defended the haitians, but their right to justice, just the same way as i defend the right of the DR to protect its territory. We are in no position to follow neocons like you to hell, because the only place neocons governments end up is precisely there, in hell hole of fire and mass killings.
I received a top education here in the U.S. and clearly learned not to be an ultranationalist who ignores the errors of the nation just because one belongs to such nations. The beauty about the liberal U.S. is that you just can do what I have demonstrated, which is to hold her responsible while protecting and loving her at the same time. Read this sentence carefully pepe32: In the U.S. I AM ABLE TO LOVE MY COUNTRY AND STILL LOVE JUSTICE. I know you do not believe in that, but I do and this stance often wins.
No one, not even in DR will listen to your rants, because they sound unrealistic and are,
Written by: dagtan, 16 Oct 2009 10:10 PM
From: United States
unrealistic. i am sure that you go to bed every night and dream about the day in which the DR will rise up and ends the haitian issue by any means necessary. My advise to you is keep dreaming, because it will never happen the way you want. I am sure that the DR at the end of the day is going to listen to the level headed people and develop a just and effective system to deport all the haitians that need to be deported in order to solve the problem.
pepe32, I know I frustrate you because I do not share your primitive view on how to deal with political issues, well that is what schools are for, to help people rid themselves of primitive behaviors and thinking. I recommend to you to go back and get some more education and learn conflict resolution strategies in a real world and not in that dante's inferno in which your head resides.
Years from today you will still be crying about how the DR allowed itself to be influenced by the UN, NGO's and so on. finally, pepe32, you can,
Written by: dagtan, 16 Oct 2009 10:17 PM
From: United States
only dream about having the education i got and yes my spanish is better than yours. my communication with perlurdom in spanish was demonstrating him how we speak in the cibao region of the country. One thing that you right about is that the DR speaks a spanish based dialect, but i still like and enjoy using it as a form of communication.
pepe32, one thing that i have always given credit to the egotistical, maniac, inferiority complex affected Trujillo, is the fact that he has been the only Dominican leader who have understood that we dominicans have become territorial gatherers, but have continued to be culturally nomadic. He actually attempted to fix the problem, but did it according to his limited views and based on his ideals which were weak and damaging. See the Spanish colonization left us as gatherers, but made sure that we stayed culturally nomadic, they were very successful since we are still dealing with the issue today. Do you want to tackle this problem pepe32? oh,
Written by: dagtan, 16 Oct 2009 10:20 PM
From: United States
maybe you do not even have the ability to process and digest the problem i posted above. Your views will never allow you to liberate yourself from the colonial mind. I am still waiting for the day when one Dominican leader will come in and have the balls to say that we are and individual island nation with its own merits and faults and that we are going to work them out and create our destiny based on our experiences and environment.
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 2:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan,DOMINICANS who put DR's interests before all others (including Haiti's) can discuss a plethora of issues with possible solutions but "vendepatrias" who because of their afrocentric illness put Haiti's problems ahead of DR's and don't accept the crude reality that Haiti and Haitians are the main problem and the main cause for backwardness in DR are not part of the solution.
We have many other problems as many Patriotic Dominicans will acknowledge ,but all others pale in front of the demographic threat that Haitians pose and the terrible consequences a culture that is almost paleolithic poses to any future progress in DR. You like most left wing extremists don't accept the concept of accountability always blaming others for misfortunes that reflect on the people themselves,even DR is guilty (as a people) for many of the current problems that afflict us and focusing on blame on others does not allow people to correct their own negative traits much like an alcoholic that does not
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 2:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
accept his condition will never be able to defeat his condition.
Getting lessons on "morality" and being spoken to about human rights is idiotic from an admirer of Che Guevara ,Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez (probably many enemies of the US which Dagtan "loves") because the left has no clue about real morality and real justice since true justice does not justify the killings,dictatorship,closure of free press on an ideological twist rather RIGHT and wrong and saying that Che helped an old lady cross the street or Fidel has health care for all
(good care for those with hard currency)
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 2:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
and Chavez has done some good things is just as irrelevant as saying Hitler helped the German economy or that under Mussolini the trains ran on time because even Trujillo did some good things but anyone who states these "truths" without seeing the overall EVIL in these men is an immoral beast that has no claim to a higher moral ground and cannot complain about human rights violations only when the violations come from people whose ideology they don't like .That is a selective "justice" or in leftist terms "fairness" which suits justice to the needs of each person and makes a mockery of justice.
I don't expect a brain hardened by the decay of leftist idleness to understand that you cannot claim morality and support immorality at the same time and that justice shaped to your ideas is not justice because true justice has her eyes covered .I support your ideas no matter how twisted they may seem to me because you have the privilege of living in a system that permits you these rights
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 2:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
yet in those nations with systems that you admire or with animals like your admired Che Guevara anyone who thinks different is either shot or jailed . Must be nice to live in the US and support ideas that if enacted would erase everyone's right to think differently and to admire people who if they could would destroy the US without blinking an at that same time "love" the US...
I would love to see these people living in Cuba ,N. Korea or even Chavez Venezuela to live their utopic dream up close instead of doing so from the comfort of the country they criticize the most .
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 3:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You all are a fifth column in this country but you ideology is all hypocritical because you don't make the sacrifice like Carter ,Clinton and "the principal" who talk ,but don't put any sweat into it instead of going to Haiti and seeing up close WHY Haiti is in the state it is in then the would realize that aside from backwards Haitian egos even in the ones who are eating dirt don't let them climb out of their hole and that you could sink 100 billion into Haiti and in short order it would be gone with nothing to show
Funny how they criticize the Church ,yet the church has produced thousands of people like Mother Teresa who dedicate and many times lose their lives for what they believe in yet the only leftist "saint" is San Che ,a murderer who even in his writings reflects the hatred in his soul and the ease with which he was willing to wipe out anyone who stood in his way.
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 3:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
En fin no tengo mas tiempo para dedicar a a semejante incongruente que de estar Duarte Sanchez y Mella vivos lo hubiesen mandado al paredón por traidor, porque del enemigo se espera el ataque ,pero de tu propio lado un ataque es mucho mas peligroso ya que te pegan el puñal por la espalda y Dagtan y su fiel mascota Josean son sencillamente TRAIDORES así es que prefiero no tratar con semejante deshechos .
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 3:07 PM
From: United States
"Haitians are the main problem and the main cause for backwardness in DR'
When was the last time a Haitian was President of the Republic!
Another rectal statement from Mr. MENSA!
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 3:19 PM
From: United States
"Funny how they criticize the Church ,yet the church has produced thousands of people like Mother Teresa who dedicate and many times lose their lives for what they believe'
Mommie Dearest
The pope beatifies Mother Teresa, a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Oct. 20, 2003, at 4:04 PM ET
"George Orwell's admonition in his essay on Gandhi—that saints should always be presumed guilty until proved innocent—was drowned in a Niagara of soft-hearted, soft-headed, and uninquiring propaganda."
Read on:
http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 3:34 PM
From: United States
Free Inquiry: According to polls, Mother Teresa is the most respected woman in the world. Her name is a by-word for selfless dedication in the service of humanity. So why are you picking on this sainted old woman?
Christopher Hitchens: Partly because that impression is so widespread. But also because the sheer fact that this is considered unquestionable is a sign of what we are up against, namely the problem of credulity. One of the most salient examples of people's willingness to believe anything if it is garbed in the appearance of holiness is the uncritical acceptance of the idea of Mother Teresa as a saint by people who would normally be thinking - however lazily - in a secular or rational manner. In other words, in every sense it is an unexamined claim.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 3:36 PM
From: United States
It's unexamined journalistically - no one really takes a look at what she does. And it is unexamined as to why it should be she who is spotlighted as opposed to many very selfless people who devote their lives to the relief of suffering in what we used to call the "Third World." Why is it never mentioned that her stated motive for the work is that of proselytization for religious fundamentalism, for the most extreme interpretation of Catholic doctrine? If you ask most people if they agree with the pope's views on population, for example, they say they think they are rather extreme. Well here's someone whose life's work is the propagation of the most extreme version of that.
That's the first motive.
Continued:
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 3:37 PM
From: United States
The second was a sort of journalistic curiosity as to why it was that no one had asked any serious questions about Mother Teresa's theory or practice. Regarding her practice, I couldn't help but notice that she had rallied to the side of the Duvalier family in Haiti, for instance, that she had taken money - over a million dollars - from Charles Keating, the Lincoln Savings and Loans swindler, even though it had been shown to her that the money was stolen; that she has been an ally of the most reactionary forces in India and in many other countries; that she has campaigned recently to prevent Ireland from ceasing to be the only country in Europe with a constitutional ban on divorce, that her interventions are always timed to assist the most conservative and obscurantist forces.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.htmlread:
The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa In Theory And Practice,
by Christopher Hitchens
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 5:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Only an animal (or a communist ) would minimize the self-sacrifice of Mother Teresa who actually lived among the poorest of India which is more than "hijos de Pu.a" like Josean will ever do for anyone .If this SOB cared about the Haitians he would go to the cesspool himself ,but instead he wants Dominicans to carry his tribe on our backs .
Secular humanism and communism 120 million deaths and they still want a chance to prove the validity of their arguments!
Good copy and paste of things he obviously cannot understand ...that's why his own words are like that of the village idiot but he paste's articles by others to try and argue a point but in this case the left's nauseating hypocrisy shows for they are not willing to help unless they can subjugate will Mother Teresa gave more than all the leftist a holes combined and she didn't have to force anyone,kill anyone ,destroy any an all civil liberties. Of course to reflex leftists these things don't matter in their path to the "perf
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 5:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"perfect world" where "reactionaries" and "fascists" (AKA anyone who doesn't agree with their ideas) can be imprisoned or killed .
Worst of all these animals live in the US and in many cases live OFF the US while they bite the hand that (sometimes literally) feeds them ,but none of these animals would go to live to Cuba or any other of their utopic societies because they like it here ! At least you have to respect the leftists who are sincere to their latrine ideology and go to the front lines ,but these scumbags who like to live high on the hog while talking about Capitalism and writing trash in forums instaed of doing something REAL ere human waste products and this country would do much better without them ,but we are not animals like the left and even their perverse ideas are allowed by the ideals of this country.
Poor Josean ,find some more articles to cut and paste (see in granma,telesur and your nambla websites)
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:10 PM
From: United States
I hope you took your blood pressure medication!
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 5:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
josean ,you are nothing more than an annoyance ,sort of like a mosquito or a barking chihuahua ,you have no thoughts of your own and are limited to idiotic short quips .Dagtan at least knows the ideology he spouts no matter how wrong but you are more like a little monkey who mimics human actions but can never understand what it means .
So you are a source of amusement for me ...a sort of jester but I don't have too much time for your antics because slapstick intelligence tends to bore me after a short time so tell your owner to make sure you have your rabies shots and stop humping peoples legs ...
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:18 PM
From: United States
pepe32,
As Gandhi, said "in the end deceivers deceive only themselves."
But to you Gandhi must be a “communist devil!”
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:20 PM
From: United States
pepeito,
We all can't be MENSA members like you!
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:23 PM
From: United States
What amazing to me is how all the intelligent right wingers here on the DT spend so much time monitoring my idiotic postings and even more time formulating a response to the writings of a monkey?
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:30 PM
From: United States
You’re writing style and verbiage is so familiar to me, it seems awfully similar to a former acquaintance who now resides in Banistan….!
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 5:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
monkeys are fun for a while ,but like at the zoo we move on and see the next exhibit..
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 5:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Try Moca slug..
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 5:47 PM
From: United States
Remember people all over the world are getting a very clear picture of your manners and etiquette each time you post that beautiful prose Mr. MENSA. Soon they will not be able to distinguish which side of the cage the monkey is located!
Written by: dagtan, 18 Oct 2009 6:15 PM
From: United States
pepe32, you posted lots of garbage on those 12 posts, maybe more, I lost count, OMG. You are really backward pepe32, I hope no one here, who is not Dominican think that we are all like you.
Finally, so much crap and not one word addressing my point of domestically gatherers and culturally nomadic. I hope that I am not going above your head on this pepe32, however, I a hunch that that is the case.
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
beginning to think he is human
Written by: Pepe32, 18 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan,somewhere in your twisted mind you know that you are not above anyone in this forum ,least of all myself .You have never responded to any of my detailed responses to your diatribes that prove you are a hypocritical person without base who considers Che Guevara admirable regardless of how undemocratic and bloodthirsty the monster was .You cannot respond to precise premises or responses because all you do is repeat the same leftist mantra over and over like the idiots repeating the infantile "yes we can" .You and your sidekick josean are just dumb and dumber but somehow in your twisted elitist mind (strange for a supposed leftist lover of the masses) you think you are always right even when you don't know why. Your nomadic BS is not worth discussing because you don't even understand that Haitian Haitian immigration is a net loss for DR and will severely hamper any future progress for my country (which you obviously don't give a crap about)
PS keep your monkey caged up ,he is
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 8:22 PM
From: United States
Cover his tracks by omitting the......!
This is the sign of the Cuban Gusano, especially when they are so rabidly concerned about Ernesto!
Written by: dagtan, 18 Oct 2009 9:35 PM
From: United States
pepe32, I am so happy that you have finally shown your true colors. i have to be honest, for one second I took you seriously on your massive complaint, but now, type away pepe32, since i know that you only know one thing about the DR and that is: THE HAITIANS ARE COMING!, THE HAITIANS ARE COMING!, pepe32, once the haitian issue is all set and done in the DR, that is when the real work begins.
We have bigger fish to fry in our make up and future as a nation, but I do understand that the Haitian issue is the fish on the grill right now, so everyone is fighting on how long to let it cook.
pepe32, I knew that you were no match, once taken out of your comfort zone and I was right, you are no match pepe32, go take a long nap and regroup, since you have been served.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE EDUCATED LIBERALS WILL PREVAIL, SINCE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ONLY MAKE IT TOUGHER FOR FRINGERS TO MAKE THEIR CASE. KEEP CRYING THOUGH, BECAUSE I GET A KICK OUT OF IT.
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 9:56 PM
From: United States
For the record dagtan I don't mind being your sidekick, not that you would want me or that I am trying to suck up, and I definitely wouldn't mind being “dumber” as it come naturally to this peasant.
As long as it makes pepito happy!
Written by: dagtan, 18 Oct 2009 10:28 PM
From: United States
josean, we just learn from each other that is all. If I am wrong, I will stand corrected, but this guy never gives up, even if you show him the light.
Written by: josean, 18 Oct 2009 10:37 PM
From: United States
No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver!
Written by: Pepe32, 21 Oct 2009 5:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Tal para cual ,dos traidores ,el diablo los cria y ellos se juntan.
Dagtan as usual you ego gets the most of you and not responding to your little PITIful diatribe and the idiotic posting about liberals ( aka marxists ,left-wing radicals) is something only a brain-washed member of the sinister ideology could accept as real .You continue with your fantasies of "serving" me and I will continue to come at you and your willing sidekick (what a brown-nose this Josean!)
with the Dominican point of view and you can repeat yes we can all you want but in the end your BS will sink where it belongs and you will either have to leave in disgust or accept the fact that you are not the holder of all truth and that lord Dagtan may be incorrect in some of his positions although that is almost unheard of from the left .Keep on throwing them Dagtan and I will keep hitting them out of the park and your only relief is Josean which is more like comic relief ...
I am here to stay in DOMINICAN today a
Written by: Pepe32, 21 Oct 2009 5:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
and no vendepatria is going to get me to leave or commit an "indiscretion" so get used to it .
An your little dog too...
Written by: josean, 21 Oct 2009 5:15 PM
From: United States
pepe32,
I admire you self-confidence and how full you are of yourself!
I am one of your biggest fans, Eh Pa’Lante Que Tu Va!
Written by: Pepe32, 21 Oct 2009 5:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
tranquilo bobi ,tranquilo
Just make sure to remove your nose from Dags posterior because you will fry what few neurons you have left and I am sure lord dagtan would miss his little mascot.
Written by: dagtan, 21 Oct 2009 6:14 PM
From: United States
pepe32, I can really feel your envy. LA ENVIDIA NO MATA, PERO MORTIFICA.
pepe32, I am really starting to feel bad, can you please stop.
Josean, I am moving on, I hope you do the same, there is better things to do.
Written by: josean, 21 Oct 2009 6:27 PM
From: United States
dagtan,
Hang in there; bacteria’s have limited shelf lives!
pepito I have the right to do whatever I want with my nose, if you don't mind of course!
Written by: Pepe32, 21 Oct 2009 7:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
No josean this is a free country unless people with your ideology take control.
Lord Dagtan ,please don't bore us with your idiotic quips ,if you can't stand the heat take your piti arse out of the kitchen!
But of course you are not a man of your word and like any liberal lunatic will continue to spew your gibberish and tell us all how great you are and how your work in an OFFICE (o my gosh he is truly the great one) your inferiority complex gets the best of you because an uncivilized hick from the mountains of El Cibao can deal with the PRINCIPAL .....maybe you are used to dealing with impoverished and uneducated kids from the Ghetto and maybe to them you are some sort of g_d but in here you are just another vendepatria with a Haitian like ego and all the hangups of your brethren to the west.
Hahahahaha!
Good luck convincing my compatriots, buddy.
Written by: xwill7, 13 Oct 2009 12:06 PM
From: United States, Chicago
its not just the border towns... Santiago is full of illegals. Cops need to round them up, no papers no stay
I would assume then that you would have not problem with the US/Puerto Rico doing the same?
Anytime this issue of Haitian immigration comes up, if it's not accusations of racism, xenophobia, ultra-conservative nationalism, etc then it's this idea that we don't feel the way towards our illegal Dominicans in other countries as we do towards Haitians. I can't speak for xwill7, but as I fully support the outright expulsion of Haitians I support the deportation of illegal Dominicans in the States and Puerto Rico. If they are deported for crimes they should be severely dealt with.
Still afraid to make long statements ?
Still speaking in code ?
"I would assume then that you would have not problem with the US/Puerto Rico doing the same?"
People need to understand that Dominican immigrants represent an insignificant % of the illegals in the US and elsewhere in the world. Dominicans may be poor and uneducated, but we all are extremely interested in getting our immigration documents setup, using a wide variety of methods ie. Arranged marriage, changing their names, etc...Not like other latin american citizens from Mexico and Central America that stay and live illegally for decades.
Human Rights can be respected - illegal Haitians can be peacefully removed.
I see no reason why our issues can't be tackled alone and apart from the Haitian issues. We can help them when we can, in any way we can without negatively affecting the PRIORITY, Dominicans and the Dominican Republic. This should be our only immediate concern. Everyone else needs to be a distant second. No special treatment for anyone!!
I think there would be little labor shortage. If somebody needs to do the work, then the laws of the free market and supply and demand dictate that wages will have in to increase in order to attract Dominican workers. The cost of food and construction would increase as well but more employed Dominicans is a good things for the short and long term.
"but we all are extremely interested in getting our immigration documents setup, using a wide variety of methods ie. Arranged marriage, changing their names, etc."
So you break the law by immigrating illegal and then you continue to break the law in a multitude of ways to become “legal” and that makes us better than Mexicans and Haitians!
Please explain that logic to me!
Unfortunately the haitians do not have such privileges in the DR since their presence is clearly not wanted by the Dominican natives. Moreover, they will not be able to get documents illegally as Dominican do, due to the fact that there is an institutionalized system in the DR that it is clearly set up to maintain their migratory status without deportation.
This system is both based on interest and the sense of inferiority that Haitians present in the DR. I think that it i really good,
All I ask is that if when the DR finally comes out with a plan to deal with the issue, that this plan will guide itself by the human rights legislation that are in place and that each haitian national that is to be deported is afforded all the natural human right that every human deserve. We ca not simply tarnish the DR reputation more than what it is by carrying out such plans base on inferiority views by the Dominicans toward haitians.
Sometime I wonder, if the reaction would have been the same, if the migrants were from KOSOVO or MONTE NEGRO, who btw have the lowest academic and are considered the haitian of europe. I am simply thinking out loud, they will not,
i wonder, will they be welcomed or repatriated. This brings to mind, Trujillo, as to how he imported a huge number of CANARIAN citizens who have no education and did not contribute to the country in any advancement of technology, schools, education and culturally, just as the haitians were doing during those times. But the haitians were slaughtered at that time, while the CANARIANS with the same skill level were imported.
You guys make some sense of this and comment as you wish.
It has been reported Dominican soldiers along the borders get bribed by special interest groups inside the Dominican Republic to let the Haitians in.
The cheap labors that the Haitian peasants bring to the Dominican Republic makes the Dominican Republic a magnet for investors, and more investment in the Dominican Republic is translated into more tax revenue for government.
Sometimes I just love these big what if posting and see what others are thinking. I hope that you did not take the Kosovans and montenegrans migration possibility as a factual possible event, since it will never happen. But I think that it is worth a million dollar your statement on the acceptance.
It is clear that haiti post a clear and danger situation to the future of another third world country, but there is an undelining of racism when it comes to haitians.
By no means saying that the DR is racist, but it looks at the haitians as a lesser human form. By definition: RACISM: IS THE BELIEVE THAT ONE RACE IS BETTER OR SUPERIOR THAN ANOTHER. I paraphrased the webter on this so it is not exact.
Since you are the Haitian advocate what about 1822-1844 ?
Was a Cinderella story or the history is lying to us?
Do you think Dominicans would have the same animosity against
Haitians if this would never happened??
Your arguments are still weak and biased, once again color of the
skin has nothing to do, can you explain to me the how come haitians are not
welcome in most of the black Caribbean islands.
Last but not least if Canada, US and France want to teach us Dominicans a Les
son in human rights how come they never open their borders without limitations
to the Haitians, again everybody want to take Dominicans as their guinea pigs to
merge both countries mixing good with bad,
I still strongly believe that you are not Dominican at all and it takes respect and honor
away from you when you hide behind a camouflage identity, don't get me wrong I res
ect you in a way but please don't take me as a fool since I might be older than you
and maybe wiser.
In the DR we are 84% mullatoes and black with a few mestizos here and there, 16% of our population is white (mostly spaniars, but you must factor in the jews and others) Haiti is 99% and 1% white (usually the elite). We in the DR are no position to discriminate anyone for being black, that will be lunacy and insanity. If there are Dominicans who see others a lesser due to the color of skin (either black, white or yellow) then they are morons, because they have no idea where they are coming from.
To make my case clearer, the Rwandan genocide was no based on color of the skin, but on tribalism and past grievances against the totsies and the hutus. The hutus were afraid that the totsies (typo) will take their land, so they set out to dehumanize them. The process of
Once you get a people to look at another from a dehumanized lens, then its easier to mistreat them, kill them injustly, attack them and finally getting rid of them at any cost. the ordinary people lose their sense of morality and ethical responsibilities when they view another group as lesser humans.
No one can deny that such sentiments exist in the DR toward the haitians, granted due to their invasion of the island at the turn of the 17th century and the ongoing crossing in to the DR territory. however, at the end of the day, this does not makes them less human than any other. This is my point JR, as I said before, think what you want,
Finally, you surely sound like one those crazy birthers that have doubts about president Obama just because he does not share their views. you come across as a very short cited person when you behave like that. hey call the FBI and CIA so they can come and deliver a copy of my birth certificate to you. Maybe, then you will conduct a geneology test to see if I genetically have any haitian blood in me, because no Dominican is sensitive to other's ply or has the ball to stand up against the majority on topic. If you go for the geneology test I am pretty sure that we both come out with some haitian in us., maybe 10-15 generations ago, but i think it could be found.
Being used to that treatment and that view of themselves should be the reason why in 209 years they have not fight, but take meekly their lot. Not wonder that in DR, USA, the Caribbean Islands and elsewhere the demonizing continues. At least Dominicans sort of have an excuse, which is the Haitians one?
As a civilized nation, but with less than 15% of our population with post graduate schooling and 65% of general population with some compulsory education, it is hard to make the case of civilization and refinement to the international community.
However, the DR is without questions at least 75 years ahead of haiti in every facet of human development, then the argument could be made that we are highly civilized when compared to haiti. So on that premise, should the DR lower its moral and ethical standard which it worked so hard to get through the painful process of civilization, when dealing with the haitians?
I do not think so, Micaela, we need to stay above the fray or get down and dirty,
I'm stilll debating if 1822-1844 happened or not ?
Maybe Dominicans are lying and Haitians didn't killed so many innocent Dominicans?
But want to see you defending why Haitians are not welcome anywhere else in this planet even
the same islands in the Caribbean (BLACKS) like the haitians look at them as a locust plague.
But then agains Dominicans have to be the only stupid race in this planet that is supposed to
bend over and let haitians destroy our country (cutting trees), bring diseases that we erradicated
50 years ago (i have a friend of mine which is a doctor in the border), afrikanized our land like
I We would have a jungle out of order.
How come Canada and US don't open their borders and let few thousand of haitians migrate
to places like Florida or Montreal; plain and simple (They don't give a rat ass about haitians) but
instead want to stick this annoying issue to the Dominicans like We are stupid.
Regarding the propaganda I think "Dagtan" than then the whole international community is wrong
and haitians are right (Nobody wants to welcome haitians in their countries).
Feel sorry for your confused nationality because I know that you are Haitian and not Dominican
and this is why you will never recognize that your country (haiti) is wrong not Dominican Republican and if you want to solve the issues in your motherland lots of work have to be done
(by your goverment) not involving Dominicans since We don't want to get involved with your issues.
"Dios, patria y libertad"
What I have noticed is how uncomfortable most of these pseudo Dominicans are with the Spanish language which makes it obvious that their only sources are in the English language and mostly being in the Ghetto they are exposed to afrocentric writers which despise Dominicans for not rolling over to the Haitian invasions ,they despise the fact that Dominican Republic did not massacre all its European inhabitants and that those inhabitants remained the power structure in DR . They prefer to believe the fantasies of Haitian "greatness" espoused by the afronazi mentors in universities ,they prefer to believe that Haitian illiterate hordes somehow beat the French when it is obvious that it was the might mosquito that defeated the French otherwise why would they feel FORCED to pay an indemnity and why would those Haitian armies be beaten multiple times by a rag tag bunch of Dominicans.
Not content with their genocidal frenzy in the west the Haitians marched to the east in a blood and rape
because many "blacks" in the US ,including the current joker are not black but in reality are just as white as they are black but try to tell this to a REAL racist (black or white) .Funny how the AfroNazis and the KKK agree on so many things ,only change the designation (black ,white) and they could actually use each others writing material.
Thats why Jamaica ,Barbados and other countries are given a pass because they accept their "African roots " while Dominican Republic continues to state it is a multiracial state and that bothers the racists who support the one drop rule meaning if one eighth of you blood is African then you are black even if the rest is Scandinavian ,
It only shows your lack decency and low knowledge of protocol when it comes to showing you social skills. When it comes to Africanization of the DR, do you think that we can be ore african that what we already are? If yes, in what area of our daily lives could the DR be more African than what it is? The fact that you do not see it, is due to your lack of search and perifferal vision. cont
FINALLY, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOVE MY COUNTRY AND STILL LOVE JUSTICE. You guys are such a disgrace, what really gets me about you is that you think that Dominicans are not able to recognize justice when it comes to the haitian issue. We are no beasts, we are human and we have feelings, if the people that supoort are the ones that do not value life for what it is, then yours should not be given,
Everyone in their mother knows that haitians are not good for DR, even the haitian elite knows this. But it is to their adavatge to have happen what is happening right now.
Just because someone identify with the respect for human life no matter what the situation is, that does not mean that do not care about DR. Because I care about how we are viewed and considered among other societies is precisely why I think that we should follow in the respect of human rights and give these people their basic right and stop dehumanizing them for god sake.
Such rhetoric does not work with the people that matter most and the Dominican elite knows, hence the reason why they stay away from making such ignorant and incendiary comments as the ones you guys make about haitians here.
As a young professional Dominican I am raelly ashame to know that there are people so norrow minded as you around. It only produces embarassment among us and the DR elite.
You said all: “the people that matter most” but of course you are not ashamed of that, you are only to know that there are people so narrow minded as we, poor Dominicans, as far as you are concern, could just face a pride of hungry lion. I say, thanks God you are Dominican, I can imagine what you would say and feel if you were Haitian.
You said all: “the people that matter most” but of course you are not ashamed of that, you are only to know that there are people so narrow minded as we, poor Dominicans, as far as you are concern, could just face a pride of hungry lion. I say, thanks God you are Dominican, I can imagine what you would say and feel if you were Haitian.
When i said, the people that matter most, those are the legislators and business men in the DR. I do not count Haiti on any creation of comprehensive immigration for the Haitians, since they do not care, when are you going to understand that the haitian legislators and elite do not care about the ply of the Dominicans, therefore, stop calling on them to act.
Also, Dominicans do not have to share their meager resources with the haitians ungrateful, which i do not know how you have come to conclude they are ungrateful. but that is beside the point. All that needs to
You must look at what Puerto Ricans did today. It is estimated that 1/2 million out of 4 million were on the streets in PR today due to the cuts. DR has has about 11 millions and more than 8.5 millions are poor, so think about mobilizing those people go to the streets and demand a stoppage to the haitian influx.
The people that matter most knows how to stop the influx, but they put their bottom line before you, Micaela. They are actually worse than haitians in my view, since they are doing it to their own people, so they be able to send their kids to boarding schools and eat well, while the rest is struggling.
I shudder to think that I share a nationality with such a person and that people like
Bottom line ,the Haitians have to be removed from DR in the majority and it does not matter whose fault it is because the alternative is a whole island in disaster instead of one third and DR's existence as we know it would only be a memory .So we can either do this now the correct way (humanitarian) or we can wait to it explodes completely and the machetes and guns come out .Chamberlain and other cowards caused more death and pain by inaction which could have been avoided with much stronger earlier action.
Si vis pacem para bellum !!
Once again, "all that needs to be done is to stop the invasion at all cost" Please tell me what country have ever stop the illegal immigration no matter what resources they use? But you request of the humble DR will be the first to do it and let us know that that is the only choice. The people that matter most to you are winning the war, by having people like me divert the anger from them, while the Haitians are wining our country by having people like you pretending that we ignore their massive presence, their amazing capacity to reproduce and what they are doing to DR.
Yes the DR lacks the ability to progress due to the fact that it has an educational system that is only better than haiti's. Any country with such mediocre educational system will not be able to sustain any influx, be it small or large. again, the people that matter most in the DR have the capital to fund an educational system that will at least put the DR in part with Jamaica and bahamas when it comes to education production. Cuba is at least 50 years ahed of the DR when it comes to education so it can be compared.
the problem in the DR is,
There is no doubt that it will take a tremendous amount of resources that the haitians will never spend and the Dominican government is not willing to invest, neither the business class. Note, such money for the haitians will be looked upon themselves as an expenditure and for the Dominican it should look like an investment.
The only benefiting from a limited of zero illegal migration is the Dominican poor class, which has never being taken seriously by the Dominican elite. Therefore, if the poor class is not willing to rise and fight for their rights then nothing will ever happen as it has for the past 40 years.
you see, due to the lack of education is that they can not make the difference between the problem and the root causes. Maybe you should clarify that, since you live there.
So we lack the ability to progress due to the fact that our educational system is only better than Haiti, of course the overburden of Haitians in all our system have nothing to do with it, because you don’t understand that not matter how much is invested, the ever present Haitians would share and would not be enough. Now I wonder how many millions of illegal aliens are in Jamaica and Bahamas and how many of their children are in their education systems.
That airy everyone knows that the Haitians place tremendous burden on the DR sounds so dispassionate compare to your comments about racist, xenophobes and uneducated Dominicans.
On another note DR's educational system is not the greatest ,but to even allude to its proximity to Haiti's is ludicrous especially now. As far as Jamaica ,I must say the Anglophiles really have gotten to you because their educational system is not that great either and Cuba ....well an educational system with no freedom of expression is not truly educational rather indoctrinating good communists to serve the state.
You minimize DR which obviously has problems but which is steadily improving while
You spoke of elitism yet your view of my country is made obviously from an elitist point of view while the Haitians are given a pas by the left for making their third of the island almost uninhabitable ..(it's not their fault,it is due to the French,US, Europe all those damn Europeans ) because nobody wants to admit that most of Haiti's troubles are their own fault and akin to a 5 year old being living alone after killing his abusive parents and then instead of maturing ,blaming everyone for their problems.This is typical leftism and it is the cult of self-victimization constantly looking at others for their mistakes instead of looking at the mirror to see the main culprit..
El plan es retrasar nuestra reacción y cada día entran mas Haitianos en RD hasta que llegue a un punto sin regreso (sin violencia) .Y están abogan do por darle papeles a gente que violentaron nuestras fronteras y que ya están empezando a EXIGIR derechos como Dominicanos,poco a poco van tomando nuestro terreno y de seguir así no quedarán muchas opciones de dialogo pero los mismos que se oponen a
pepe32, you are right, there is a steady movement toward solving the problem, but it will not be solved the way you want it to be solved. I believe that deportation should be an imminent status for the illegal haitians, however, I'll have a problem if they decide to separate the families. You know the Lie-onel government is grappling with that issue, since they know that it will not be tolerated in the international community.
the system should include some sort of amnesty to the haitians born on Dominican soil and those who have, c
But you are successful in omitting that this discrepancy in the dominican agricultural industry, which is the largest after the service industry, has staggered due to the lack of funding by the private sector and the lack of investment in creating training opportunities by the private and public sector. The haitians are not the largest and most important problem for the DR, since those issue that pointed above have been taking since lily.
However, you simply cry and cry about the haitian issue, not placing ownership of the problem on the DR elites and government. They allowed for the migration
Also, your point that something is going to happen, yes I happen to agree with you. i hope that whatever happens, is not violent, even though i think that that is the only way the Dominican populace will response to the problem. This will exempt the elites and the government and simply demonized the people and future generations to come. The haitian government on the hand will be a winner by creating a system of victimization that has reason, unlike the unfounded one that they currently benefit from.
You have to stop your grievances toward the haitian government, since they will fall on death ears, has it worked for the past 15 years, which have seen the explosion. the people that could ended is us and no one else.
We are still struggling to rid ourselves of the colonial markings that the colonial left imprinted in our brains, so I do not simply blame dominicans or attack them, but i feel with more rights to talk about the inequalities that exists, since it is my people. i am concentrated on what happens at home and how to keep above the fray, rather than scape goat everything that is bad.
The haitians will not do anything, they need this migration, we do not, so we need to do it for them. Get that pepe32?
Again you apply the same one drop rule as the KKK and the Neo-Nazi’s ,you are in good company sir. We do not get a pass because we don’t accept this nonsense that calls a person who is equal parts black and white “black” ignoring one half of a persons identity and DNA and even worse someone who has 3 % black to be called black is so illogical only a dogmatic leftist (or a racist) could believe it !
The left has caused enough death and misery in its short history to make Attila the Hun blush.The willingness to destroy others to impose the utopic worldview and to assassinate the character (and eventually the person)of anyone who thinks differently .Admiration of a murderous left wing genocidal maniac belies that fake humanism you try to portray ,just like if I stated admiration for Trujillo,Somoza or Duvalier which I would never do so I guess compared to you I am a moderate..
I agree, they should not separate families ,all of them should be sent so they can be together in Haiti
The only consideration should be for individuals married to Dominican nationals or those that entered legally with some sort of visa.
The Haitians are the single most important problem facing the DR
because all the other problems don’t pose an existential threat to the Dominican Republic and while the lack of Haitians would pose some short term issues in the long run we would have a healthier less ignorant and more progressive (in the real meaning not the left wing fake).
No matter what DR does in disease control ,population control ,reforestation, hygiene and education Haitians will not only stop any improvements but they will bring the country back ,again I know you don’t ca
However, you simply cry and cry about the Haitian issue, not placing ownership of the problem on the DR elites and government. They allowed for the migration From: United States to take place, due to heavy bleeding of youngster due to migration from the DR to other countries and the high wages that needed to be paid to natives. hold them accountable for allowing and motivating for the flood gates to open as wide as possible.
You like to place blame for a complex issue on one group when there are many culprits in this one ; First and foremost the Haitian Government and elites ,second of all the Haitians themselves who instead of demanding THEIR rights in THEIR country and making the massive protests you say we should make decide to jump across the fence and violate my country because of the HAITIAN PROBLEM ,finally we have the Dominican elites that like Judas for a quick buck would sell their mother and they encourage the violation of the Dominican Republics border and laws. The ov
The Dominican population is not being given much of a choice caught between a useless government ,a greedy elite and hypocritical foreigners that only blame DR when the cesspool was created by the Haitians and the Dominican population is demonized or ridiculed by people like you all the while you relieve the Haitians of all blame (of course except the Haitian elites) but again you show your colours because you don’t understand that the only way the government might take the situation se
I don’t think much will be achieved by talking to the Haitian government because they don’t care and actually consider it a good thing in several ways; 1. They provide an escape valve for them 2. The slowly infiltrate the Dominican Republic and gain power in the east via THEIR nationals on Dominican soil.
I don’t expect much from the Haitian invaders because they are running from the failed experiment called Haiti and even when deported turn back no matter how BAD Dominicans supposedly are!
I don’t expect much from the people who make money from the Haitians while they sink DR deeper into poverty and backwardness and will eventually destroy any future DR might have .
.
I have trust in the Dominican Population which knows that the Haitians don’t belong here and that they are a clear and present threat and I know the population will react if the government does not
We really have to get you to learn some Spanish so your world view is not so twisted ,I know you probably know more about African American studies than you do about Latin America and the Spanish or Hispanic culture .
However, I have capitalized on those 20 years to fullest of the word.
Finally, the same way I depise all ther invadors, including the U.S. which I love dearly, I do depise the Sanish for their genocide on my ancestors and their highjacking of our brains throuhg the evils of colonialism. We were able to overcome the physical damages inflicted by the haitians and americans, but have not been able to over come the emotional inprint of colonialism and social class.
As far as agreement ,only in the sense that we are approaching a dangerous point otherwise no agreement especially for and admirer of the murderous Che who has the nerve to talk about human rights!
As far as having recovered from the Haitian influence I disagree because most all backwardness in DR comes from Haiti and that is there for everyone to see ,the Haitian "cultural" contributions to DR are exactly those of the most backwards culture in the world with the top 20 countries in backwardness and these elements have penetrated into the DR .
You hate Spain like most leftists hate all Europeans all while you complain when anything is said about your Afrocentric rabble in other words selective h
Now they defend Spaniards who they really hate because Spain never broke diplomatic or economic relations with Fidel.
Selective Hypocrisy .
The "glorious" Haitian armies that supposedly defeated the French were defeated multiple times by some Dominican CRIOLLO farmers even though the Haitians outnumbered us many times over of course our CRIOLLOS weren't as susceptible to the mighty mosquito as the continental French armies .
The Cubans are a bunch of puss... because if Fidel were in DR he would have been worm food a long time ago and would have joined his infernal brethren in Hades.
Supposedly your ancestors are from West Africa so there was no such genocide
Come on say you despise Haiti for their genocidal acts and multiple invasions ...I know you can crap on the US,Spain and DR as nations yet when it comes to Haiti which has been the worst thing to happen to DR all you can muster is "Haitian Elites" ,even the Dominican population is attacked in your writings yet the Haitians are exempt from any such criticism ...interesting ,no wonder Ruby thinks you are Haitian ,although I still think you are just a traitorous Dominican with twisted morals and an enlarged ego (another Haitian quality..) .
Perhaps Invading Haitian troops raped one of your ancestors and you feel that kinship but if so go to Haiti and help them there.
Please note that Dagtan supposedly "Loves" the US and yet he despises the US . He also admires many of the biggest enemies of the US.
He is one confused individual!!
And his mascot Josean or maybe his Haitian BF jumps in like an irritating chihuahua with his little inane remarks thinking himself somehow intelligent..
I received a top education here in the U.S. and clearly learned not to be an ultranationalist who ignores the errors of the nation just because one belongs to such nations. The beauty about the liberal U.S. is that you just can do what I have demonstrated, which is to hold her responsible while protecting and loving her at the same time. Read this sentence carefully pepe32: In the U.S. I AM ABLE TO LOVE MY COUNTRY AND STILL LOVE JUSTICE. I know you do not believe in that, but I do and this stance often wins.
No one, not even in DR will listen to your rants, because they sound unrealistic and are,
pepe32, I know I frustrate you because I do not share your primitive view on how to deal with political issues, well that is what schools are for, to help people rid themselves of primitive behaviors and thinking. I recommend to you to go back and get some more education and learn conflict resolution strategies in a real world and not in that dante's inferno in which your head resides.
Years from today you will still be crying about how the DR allowed itself to be influenced by the UN, NGO's and so on. finally, pepe32, you can,
pepe32, one thing that i have always given credit to the egotistical, maniac, inferiority complex affected Trujillo, is the fact that he has been the only Dominican leader who have understood that we dominicans have become territorial gatherers, but have continued to be culturally nomadic. He actually attempted to fix the problem, but did it according to his limited views and based on his ideals which were weak and damaging. See the Spanish colonization left us as gatherers, but made sure that we stayed culturally nomadic, they were very successful since we are still dealing with the issue today. Do you want to tackle this problem pepe32? oh,
We have many other problems as many Patriotic Dominicans will acknowledge ,but all others pale in front of the demographic threat that Haitians pose and the terrible consequences a culture that is almost paleolithic poses to any future progress in DR. You like most left wing extremists don't accept the concept of accountability always blaming others for misfortunes that reflect on the people themselves,even DR is guilty (as a people) for many of the current problems that afflict us and focusing on blame on others does not allow people to correct their own negative traits much like an alcoholic that does not
Getting lessons on "morality" and being spoken to about human rights is idiotic from an admirer of Che Guevara ,Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez (probably many enemies of the US which Dagtan "loves") because the left has no clue about real morality and real justice since true justice does not justify the killings,dictatorship,closure of free press on an ideological twist rather RIGHT and wrong and saying that Che helped an old lady cross the street or Fidel has health care for all
(good care for those with hard currency)
I don't expect a brain hardened by the decay of leftist idleness to understand that you cannot claim morality and support immorality at the same time and that justice shaped to your ideas is not justice because true justice has her eyes covered .I support your ideas no matter how twisted they may seem to me because you have the privilege of living in a system that permits you these rights
I would love to see these people living in Cuba ,N. Korea or even Chavez Venezuela to live their utopic dream up close instead of doing so from the comfort of the country they criticize the most .
Funny how they criticize the Church ,yet the church has produced thousands of people like Mother Teresa who dedicate and many times lose their lives for what they believe in yet the only leftist "saint" is San Che ,a murderer who even in his writings reflects the hatred in his soul and the ease with which he was willing to wipe out anyone who stood in his way.
When was the last time a Haitian was President of the Republic!
Another rectal statement from Mr. MENSA!
Mommie Dearest
The pope beatifies Mother Teresa, a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Oct. 20, 2003, at 4:04 PM ET
"George Orwell's admonition in his essay on Gandhi—that saints should always be presumed guilty until proved innocent—was drowned in a Niagara of soft-hearted, soft-headed, and uninquiring propaganda."
Read on:
http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/
Christopher Hitchens: Partly because that impression is so widespread. But also because the sheer fact that this is considered unquestionable is a sign of what we are up against, namely the problem of credulity. One of the most salient examples of people's willingness to believe anything if it is garbed in the appearance of holiness is the uncritical acceptance of the idea of Mother Teresa as a saint by people who would normally be thinking - however lazily - in a secular or rational manner. In other words, in every sense it is an unexamined claim.
Continued:
That's the first motive.
Continued:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html
read:
The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa In Theory And Practice,
by Christopher Hitchens
Secular humanism and communism 120 million deaths and they still want a chance to prove the validity of their arguments!
Good copy and paste of things he obviously cannot understand ...that's why his own words are like that of the village idiot but he paste's articles by others to try and argue a point but in this case the left's nauseating hypocrisy shows for they are not willing to help unless they can subjugate will Mother Teresa gave more than all the leftist a holes combined and she didn't have to force anyone,kill anyone ,destroy any an all civil liberties. Of course to reflex leftists these things don't matter in their path to the "perf
Worst of all these animals live in the US and in many cases live OFF the US while they bite the hand that (sometimes literally) feeds them ,but none of these animals would go to live to Cuba or any other of their utopic societies because they like it here ! At least you have to respect the leftists who are sincere to their latrine ideology and go to the front lines ,but these scumbags who like to live high on the hog while talking about Capitalism and writing trash in forums instaed of doing something REAL ere human waste products and this country would do much better without them ,but we are not animals like the left and even their perverse ideas are allowed by the ideals of this country.
Poor Josean ,find some more articles to cut and paste (see in granma,telesur and your nambla websites)
So you are a source of amusement for me ...a sort of jester but I don't have too much time for your antics because slapstick intelligence tends to bore me after a short time so tell your owner to make sure you have your rabies shots and stop humping peoples legs ...
As Gandhi, said "in the end deceivers deceive only themselves."
But to you Gandhi must be a “communist devil!”
We all can't be MENSA members like you!
Finally, so much crap and not one word addressing my point of domestically gatherers and culturally nomadic. I hope that I am not going above your head on this pepe32, however, I a hunch that that is the case.
PS keep your monkey caged up ,he is
This is the sign of the Cuban Gusano, especially when they are so rabidly concerned about Ernesto!
We have bigger fish to fry in our make up and future as a nation, but I do understand that the Haitian issue is the fish on the grill right now, so everyone is fighting on how long to let it cook.
pepe32, I knew that you were no match, once taken out of your comfort zone and I was right, you are no match pepe32, go take a long nap and regroup, since you have been served.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE EDUCATED LIBERALS WILL PREVAIL, SINCE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ONLY MAKE IT TOUGHER FOR FRINGERS TO MAKE THEIR CASE. KEEP CRYING THOUGH, BECAUSE I GET A KICK OUT OF IT.
As long as it makes pepito happy!
Dagtan as usual you ego gets the most of you and not responding to your little PITIful diatribe and the idiotic posting about liberals ( aka marxists ,left-wing radicals) is something only a brain-washed member of the sinister ideology could accept as real .You continue with your fantasies of "serving" me and I will continue to come at you and your willing sidekick (what a brown-nose this Josean!)
with the Dominican point of view and you can repeat yes we can all you want but in the end your BS will sink where it belongs and you will either have to leave in disgust or accept the fact that you are not the holder of all truth and that lord Dagtan may be incorrect in some of his positions although that is almost unheard of from the left .Keep on throwing them Dagtan and I will keep hitting them out of the park and your only relief is Josean which is more like comic relief ...
I am here to stay in DOMINICAN today a
An your little dog too...
I admire you self-confidence and how full you are of yourself!
I am one of your biggest fans, Eh Pa’Lante Que Tu Va!
Just make sure to remove your nose from Dags posterior because you will fry what few neurons you have left and I am sure lord dagtan would miss his little mascot.
pepe32, I am really starting to feel bad, can you please stop.
Josean, I am moving on, I hope you do the same, there is better things to do.
Hang in there; bacteria’s have limited shelf lives!
pepito I have the right to do whatever I want with my nose, if you don't mind of course!
Lord Dagtan ,please don't bore us with your idiotic quips ,if you can't stand the heat take your piti arse out of the kitchen!
But of course you are not a man of your word and like any liberal lunatic will continue to spew your gibberish and tell us all how great you are and how your work in an OFFICE (o my gosh he is truly the great one) your inferiority complex gets the best of you because an uncivilized hick from the mountains of El Cibao can deal with the PRINCIPAL .....maybe you are used to dealing with impoverished and uneducated kids from the Ghetto and maybe to them you are some sort of g_d but in here you are just another vendepatria with a Haitian like ego and all the hangups of your brethren to the west.