The article "forgot" to mention that they are also 6 Haitians in police custody in "Laguna Salada" suspected of perpetrating the beheading.

the French and their Guillotines .....What was it one guy with the machete and 5 Madame Defarges

"Dominican officials estimate that around 1 million Haitians live in the country, most of them illegal immigrants who work in agriculture and construction."

Professor,

I thought your "scientific survey" provided numbers around the 2 million mark give or take 2 million?

If these are the same officials who overestimated the daily rider-ship of the METRO by 90% maybe the real number of undocumented Haitians is really not a million!

We must always remember figures don’t lie but liars figurer!

try 3 million Haitian.

stop trying to confuse Josean with facts

@vacanos

Speaking of liars who figure!

The Cult of Personality is alive and well, example:

trying to embarass our great leader "Kim Yung Ill" and the "Korean" people.

trying to embarass our great leader “Trujillo” and the Dominican people.


Same blind mentality of leadership worship.

josean "@vacanos

Speaking of liars who figure!"


Very strong word there josean. I know you want the best for your beloved Haitian and everything but to imply that I'm a liar over a true fact that there is around 3 million illegal Haitian in DR is just out of line and reckless irresponsible. In Santiago alone within a few year if thing stay the same they will probably match us in number. Something unheard 15 year ago.

etienc "
the anti Leonel and anti Dominican lunatics are at it again _trying to embarass our great leader Leader Leonel Fernandez and the Dominican people."

etienc when we want an irrational opinion we will contact you. :)

Leonel and anti Dominican lunatics are at it again _trying to embarass our great leader Leader Leonel Fernandez and the Dominican people= Asshole cat eater you have to be on crack; huh.
Trujillo= we need him back.

vacanos,

All I can say if the shoe fits wear it, or proof your xenophobic rhetoric!

our great leader Leader Leonel Fernandez and the Dominican people.

0000

Where you buying so I don't drive by ?

This "josean" dude is such a negative guy.
Say something good for once buddy.

Negativity is in eye of the beholder; BUDDY DUDE!

"josean
In reality the figure is closer to 3 million and counting, it is going up exponentially like the US national debt. Pretty soon the Haitians will set up all their fruit stands and phone card businesses in your beloved "METRO". LOL.'

Professor,

Maybe that is LIE-onel Fernandez plan to get the rider-ship up to 200,000 a day from the embarrassing and doubtful 20,000.

NO JODAN CON LOS POBRES HAITIANOS : Solo entran a buscar vacas y carbon y luego salen y regresan la noche siguiente .


Please , don't bother our brothers, they don't stay overnight, they just come in for business during the night, they don't make any noise or bother your sleep, and return to their country silently with the merchandise they purchased during that time.

How can we do good businness like that ? If you guys are chasing out our best costumers.

C'MON IT IS UNFARE....................

you are becoming agitated little buddy josean I think it is Nappy time for you take your Thorazine like a good little boy and lie down

unfair, unfair, unfair sorry

NO JODAN CON LOS POBRES HAITIANOS : Solo entran a buscar vacas y carbon y luego salen y regresan la noche siguiente .


Please , don't bother our brothers, they don't stay overnight, they just come in for business during the night, they don't make any noise or bother your sleep, and return to their country silently with the merchandise they purchased during that time.

How can we do good businness like that ? If you guys are chasing out our best costumers.

C'MON IT IS UNFAIR....................

"agitated" does that lead to being BANNED?

Haiti and DR should switch places, so when they finish destroying our side of the island
they can go back to their country looking for work.

ON THIS VERY MOMENT THERE ARE SEVERAL DOMINICAN FARMER ON DETENTION ON HAITI.

WHY? Well they make the mistake to enter that country without visa chasing the "cuatreros" and trying to take back some cattle purchased during the night time by some Haitian businessman.

Haitians businessman forget to leave behind a payment for the buy, so the cattle owner only try to collect their DINERO OR MERCHANDISE BACK.

They has been informed by Haitian police officers that they need a visa to enter to Haiti, issued by an governmen officer.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE OF AUTHORITIES AND POLITICS.

thank you very much for that insightful Civics lesson Josean will read it when he gets up from his nappy

WRIGHT IS WRIGHT !!!! Haitian issued their own visas to Dominican Republic, they need not permit from Dominican authorities.

Who we think we are ?

'WHY? Well they make the mistake to enter that country without visa chasing the "cuatreros" and trying to take back some cattle purchased during the night time by some Haitian businessman.'

Sounds like a case for Buford T. Justice (aka fedadiaz) and the concept of In Hot Pursuit!

"What we have here is total disrespect for the law! Nobody makes Sheriff Buford T. Justice look like a possum's pecker!"

Josean should have been BANNDED at bitrh.

They need meat also , not only cookies made of clay, salt and "MANTECA" .

SOIL OF SOLEIL CITY NEED MEAT....................................................There is some next door, let's go get it.

Josean.

How do you enter to USA ? who knows............................

ElProfe,

And may God bless you too my son!

fedadiaz, aka Buford T. Justice


Buford T. Justice: Hey boy, where is Sheriff Branford at?
Sheriff Branford: I AM Sheriff Branford.
Buford T. Justice: Oh, pardon me. For some reason you sounded a little taller on radio.

I'm sorry Josean, I don't mean to hurt your feelings...........Did not know that u are from HAITi.

We warned haitians not to come..

" to do the work that many Dominicans will not do, such as harvesting sugar cane " bullshit, is not because Dominicans don't want is because the employers want cheaper labor and don't care about their own people!

If our gov't changes its policies and benefit our own people to do the job it will all be much better.

@ fedadiaz

Here is how Josean got to the USA.....He is the first one off the boat with the red surf board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3DuX0zOmVE

I dont know about the poor kid with the red surfboard but I do know the fat slob with the big mouth Rev Al Sharpton is his hero and has marched with the Rev many times starting with Tawana Brawley if I am not mistaken and he is proud of it

gracial a elprofe !!!!!!

now i can see not only josean brains, but also his face.

Gracias @Elprofe.

For taking off the mask to this guy........lol.

Written by: fedadiaz, 17 Oct 2009 12:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I'm sorry Josean, I don't mean to hurt your feelings...........Did not know that u are from HAITi.


No I am not from Haiti, not that there is anything wrong being from there, but I am not from HATEeeee either, like you!

We are all God's Children!

fedadiaz, aka Buford T. Justice wondering if his son might be Haitian:

Buford T. Justice: [to his son] There's no way, *no* way that you came from *my* loins. Soon as I get home, first thing I'm gonna do is punch yo mamma in da mouth!

fedadiaz,

Flash Just In !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The declaration of war won't be needed, you can call back the fighters from the Strategic Air Command, I mean Super Tucanos, the honor of Dominican cows has been restored!


Policía haitiana deja en libertad a ganaderos y los ayuda a recuperar reses robadas

"Dajabón.- Autoridades civiles y ganaderos de esta provincia aclararon hoy que éstos últimos sólo fueron detenidos por breve tiempo en Haití, cuando entraron a ese territorio para rescatar decenas de reses robadas en parcelas dominicanas y negaron que hayan sido maltratados en el vecino país."

http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=118435

Slaughter are back..

ask pepe32 he is the MENSA member here on DT!

God Bless his soul RIP. Let's hope they find the guilty party and bring him or her to justice. Let's not jump to conclusion too fast the Haitians have been guilty same.

WOW, even me was starting to think about the 2 million as micaela and pepe32 always say about the haitian presence in the DR. They are perfect example of people that inflate numbers in order to instigate acts like this.

Few of my American friends who i have got to read this publication were the ones who told me about this story and could jut not believe. The instigators are the ones to blame for making those incendiary comments base on false information. They are a bunch of liars and do not deserve any respect on this forum.

This is exactly what i do not want to see happening in the DR. Cases like this only makes harder for people who are willing to work on fixing the problem to jump in and do some good. THE MORE RADICAL the situation becomes, the least motivated the business class and the government will be to do anything about, for fear of being considered part of the mongering.

I guess that MICAELA, PEPE32, MIRABUENO AND JR, are very happy that today we look like savag

savages in front of the international community and the liberal and moderate dominicans at home and abroad.

i guess that for them the moral of victory is that there is one less haitian in the country. And how about the 2 million number, which I never questioned since i gave them the benefit of the doubt on their information. According to this article it could be less than or a million illegals. If this is true, then it will be much easier to develop the comprehensive plan that i have been talking about for a while.

Deportation plans are easier to implement with less than a million person and it should not take more than five years to complete, granted that the influx is stopped.

Dagtan i have noticed alot of folks out of here that want to over emphasize their point of view tend to inflate the real numbers without any actual data to back up their claims.

There is not official number of illegals but here are some official numbers that can give a sense of the presence. 39% of Hospital patients are Haitian in DR. 28% of crimes of Haitians , the construction industry in DR have grown almost 57% since 2002 while construction Dominican employs(construction workers) have gone down since 2002 at a almost 20% rate every year since 2002 so if you add all those numbers plus visit the capital and see for your self before talking or estimating numbers you will come to a conclusion that 1 million is to low and 3 million is a little high some my personal estimate is some where around 2.3 million with a 87% of them illegally here. By the way those are official numbers for those here asking. Of course if you just base the capital in the estimate you will think is more like 6 million but there are areas like San Francisco where the presence is almost non-existent

Source:
Officina nacional de estadisticas.
www.one.gob.do

check it out and do the

belly,

Can you please find the "real"umbers for the daily rider-ship of the useless METRO as well?

PS

Oh and if it’s not too much to ask how about $130,000,000 dollars from the Sunland Loan!

Josean

That's why i have provided the www.one.gob.do link so people here look-up the numbers and stop believing every number that people throw around. The metro is not useless in my opinion is just will take longer for people to get use to a different way of living but is has been proven around the world that mass transportation is the way to go by many countries. this is like the switch from charcoal to gas it will take a long time for the results. Many engineers will tell you this. sunland loan is not in there(havent found it) but you are more than welcome to visit the site is free information from Dominican Republic to all users including DT members.

" DR have grown almost 57% since 2002 while construction Dominican employs have gone down since 2002 at a almost 20% rate every year since 2002'

So are you saying that -40% Dominicans are working in the construction industry?

When the Economy is bad, there are obviously more problems for countries like Haiti or Dom. Rep.,

Yet the reality is a lot of labor jobs that Dominicans does not want to do.....and Haitians can fill up the vacancy right away., because of the Supply and Demand in playing in the labor market.

This type of the social issue is just like a time bomb buried in Dominican, we don't want to see it explode suddenly, but the Govt of DR needs to do something ASAP and simulate the scenario in case something happen such as riot., ......etc.

So are you saying that -40% Dominicans are working in the construction industry?

no Dominican Employs is used in the context of the Construction worker born in DR that have been replace by foreigners.

Belly you are math a magician good luck with your abstract calculation you say 2.3 millions I will say base on your estimate I will say 4 millions.

AntonioJ

You have to take into consideration that based on the Hospital bill alone cannot give a good estimate because Haitian have more health problems and based in the contruction alone is not good source either because some of the worker have also been replaced by Machines and based on the crimes is not a full picture either because the same person can commit more than one crime so that's why i didn't estimate 4 million because i took in consideration those aspects of the math and gave my maigc number of 2.3 million

belly provide direct link to that stat, I can not locate any of the data you are referring to
Source:

Officina nacional de estadisticas.
www.one.gob.do

"no Dominican Employs is used in the context of the Construction worker born in DR that have been replace by foreigners."

Belly,

Could you translate that for me in a language my simple peasant mind can comprehend like English or Spanish or even Pig Latin!

Yeah, belly I respectfully second Don Antonio's request.

belly,

"my maigc number of 2.3 million"

Now we are cooking with gas a "magic number!"

Written by: Belly, 17 Oct 2009 5:12 PM
"From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
AntonioJ

You have to take into consideration that based on the Hospital bill alone cannot give a good estimate because Haitian have more health problems and based in the contruction alone is not good source either because some of the worker have also been replaced by Machines and based on the crimes is not a full picture either because the same person can commit more than one crime so that's why i didn't estimate 4 million because i took in consideration those aspects of the math and gave my maigc number of 2.3 million"

I was being sarcastic Belly, what they really need is to take an official census,that no one seem to care. I would have a problem with anything over 2 Millions because that will be some sort of silent invasion. Until your goverment decide to take action this problem WILL NOT GO AWAY, grant citizenship to some and deport the remainder.

Defenition of magic belly:

magic trick: an illusory feat; considered magical by naive observers

josean's defention;Like numbers pulled from rectal sources by Haitian haters;

Belly, I totally disagree with assertion that based on hospital, crime, and the growth and decline in one industry dictates the population density of one people. You are simply manipulating the numbers to make it look worst that what really is. I have never supported the illegal migration of haitians into the DR, but to come on here and presenting such a distorted way of presenting data is offensive to our intellect and dishonest due to the fact that there are lots of foreigners that read these pages and judge us base on what they read here.

if i was to take your logic in determining the number of haitians in DR then read this carefully. I live in NYC, among minority groups the group that has the highest index drug arrest, drop out of college, commit crimes against social order, receive public assistance and go to the emergency room without insurance, yes you guess it, we are Belly. Now, I want to be clear, this is only among the minority groups, not considering the AF Amer,

so basically, if this is the measurement for population, there will be more dominicans in NYC than PR, which is false, more dominicans in NYC than all other minority groups combined, which is false, then how can you even say that your data processing method is logical.

Crimes, hospital visitation, job replacement are no indicators of population density.

At this point in time Dominicans population in NYC has actually being shrinking due to the harsh economy and high rents. The fact that they do not form communal apartments place them at a disadvantage when compared to mexican in the ability of staying in town. Finally, it is estimated that there is about 800k dominicans in NYC and between 400-600k illegals throughout the country.

josean take a brake my brother, it's saturday.

I am just getting started!

Incognito don't forget to hit the spell key next time!

Sound like you having fun, or you just fighting a cause.

msjersey,

That’s a great contribution to the dialogue!

Till next time SO LONG to all you bloggers!

¡No es lo mismo llamar al diablo que verlo venir!

Wow, what a day. It is very sad that a lot of u good folk with good heart I am sure are being use to be the mouth piece of coruption. There are a few mighty tyrants commanding the power of life and death over a population. Human nature will never change.
To labor under the illusion that this sort of power don't exit in DR is to make endless mistakes, waste energy and time and never hit the TARGET. Believe me powerful people never waste time. They may play along with the game pretending power is share among many. But inwardly they keep their eyes on the inevitable few. When troubles arise, people look for the underlying cause, a scape goat
Cont...

error

understanding who contol the dynamic of toda's situation is a critical realization. Stirrers thrive by hiding in the group,disguising their actions among the reactions of others. Haitians are not the cause of any down falling education, health care none of them. Do not waste recious time chasing after sheeps aim at the shepherd as he's the one in command. Chase and blame the people who allow them to work for lower wage, blame the people who allow them the free health care. The same group who are pointing the fingers at the Haitians telling you to blame them projecting everything negative towards the Haitians, seem to forget three are pointing back at them...

and her is how El Profe came into this world!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E-pHMN4DyA

AntonioJ

All the information that www.one.gob.do offers is provided in a EXCEL file i'm sure you know what that mean as for Josean look up the word excel file in your source of information space aka wikipedia. Antonio all the info is there but you have to do the math year by year if you want to come to the same conclusion that i did.

Josean

Dominican employee is somebody that works in Domincan Republic and was born in DR. If that confuse you then here is a example. there are Haitian workers in DR and there are Dominican workers in DR if you need more explanation then read on your wikipedia. If you are lazy enought to not look up the number then be lazy enought to not complain when they are put in from of you.

belly,

You hurt my feelings!

Dagtan

You are totally wrong by comparing NYC and DR if you would compare a more close match then i would have given you credit for you wrong statement. NYC has immigrants from every country on the planet by the 1000s in DR we don't get that there is only about 2 countries that have 1000s of their's in DR Cuba and Haiti which has it by the millions. With so many statements here i though you would have been better at figuring that simple fact. Please compare DR with countries that face the same problem not the richest country on the planet with a third world island facing a immigration problem from the poorest country in the continent.

josean
You hurt my feelings!

that's not my intention here. my intention is to stop people making up numbers and confusing real numbers with fake one. I have nothing against you but if you can't provide real number then please stop challenging others people numbers that's all.

So your saying that no Dominicans currently hold construction jobs because a 100% plus are occupied by “invading” Haitians!

Is that your final answer?

Josean

see if you gain 57% more work then loose 20% more is something else so you only will see a 37% gain in real life. Simple math wikipedia should be teaching this to you by now.

josean you are only good for putting nonsense on articles that pertain to haitian dominican affairs. you are just like some pajaro that wants to come out of the closet so bad but just can't seem to overcome the fear of the truth. let me reword what i said an annoying pajaro!!! get over your anger because if you actually read the article it never mentioned that a dominican was responsible for what happened but of coarse you just want to assume the negative you wretched soul.

Mr. Homophobe, were, in what posting, did I accuse any Dominican of being the alleged perpetrator of this heinous crime?

Belly,

You by any chance are not a mathematician working for NASA there in Houston?

Josean assume the position !..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnVKkJFYkhg&NR=1

I thought your time in exile had cured you of repeating the same thing over and over!

you did!!! you don't have to say anything you are guilty on all charges. ENEMIGO DE LA PATRIA!!!!

I have no trouble assuming that position with some Rebel Yell or Wild Turkey!

Illicit drugs: (NUMBER FOUR)
transshipment point for South American drugs destined for the US and Europe; has become a transshipment point for ecstasy from the Netherlands and Belgium destined for US and Canada; substantial money laundering activity in particular by Colombian narcotics traffickers; significant amphetamine consumption (2008)

Trafficking in persons: (NUMBER THREE)




current situation: the Dominican Republic is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor; a large number of Dominican women are trafficked into prostitution and sexual exploitation in Western Europe, Australia, Central and South America, and Caribbean destinations; a significant number of women, boys, and girls are trafficked within the country for sexual exploitation and domestic servitude
tier rating: Tier 2 Watch List - for a second consecutive year, the Dominican Republic is on the Tier 2 Watch List for its failure to show evidence of increasing efforts to combat human trafficking, particularly in terms of not adequately investigating and prosecuting public officials who may be complicit with trafficking activity, and inadequate government efforts to protect trafficking victims; the government has taken measures to reduce dema

sex acts with children through criminal prosecutions (2008)

Disputes - international: (NUMBER TWO)


Haitian migrants cross the porous border into the Dominican Republic to find work; illegal migrants from the Dominican Republic cross the Mona Passage each year to Puerto Rico to find better work

Now give us the bad news !

(Number one)

This is an excerpt from the CIA World Fact Book. Now tell me where do you find the outstanding number of Haitians living on your territory. Are you going to tell me that you know better than the CIA? I am not going to spend my time anymore with hate mongers, because they simply do not worth it. Take a look on your virtues and tell yourselves that we in our side of the island, even though we are poor, we do not practice those kind of abominations. You can keep hating and killing our people, but one day every bad deed will be redeemed.

Population:


9,650,054 (July 2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 86


Ethnic groups:


mixed 73%, white 16%, black 11%

Blacks : 1 061 506 (how many Haitiens are there among those Blacks?)

Written by: MIRABUENO, 17 Oct 2009 8:07 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
you did!!! you don't have to say anything you are guilty on all charges. ENEMIGO DE LA PATRIA!!!!

I guess thats how the person or persons who cut this poor soul's head off felt. Do the execution first and we will have trial later.

You’re a blooming little fascist!

The twenty two year Haitian occupation that followed is recalled by Dominicans as a period of brutal military rule, though the reality is more complex. It led to large-scale land expropriations and failed efforts to force production of export crops, impose military services, restrict the use of the Spanish language, and eliminate traditional customs such as cockfighting. It reinforced Dominicans' perceptions of themselves as different from Haitians in "language, race, religion and domestic customs.

Your xenophobic, racist, and insane asylum rants do more to hurt LA PATRIA than you can imagine nincompoop!

Oupala07

May i ask what makes the CIA number of Domincan the official number last time i checked DR and USA were 2 different country. By the way CIA doesn't conduct census in USA either the have better things to do. there is another department that covers census in USA. for your info. Why everytime somebody brings up numbers about Haitians illrgally here you start bringing up the sex abuse that happens any where.

Haiti's constitution forbade whites from owning land, and the major landowning families were forcibly deprived of their properties. Most emigrated to Cuba, Puerto Rico or Gran Colombia, usually with the encouragement of Haitian officials, who acquired their lands. The Haitians, who associated the Roman Catholic Church with the French slave-masters who had exploited them before independence, confiscated all church property, deported all foreign clergy, and severed the ties of the remaining clergy to the Vatican. Santo Domingo’s university, the oldest in the Western Hemisphere, lacking both students and teachers, closed down. In order to receive diplomatic recognition from France, Haiti was forced to pay an indemnity of 150 million francs to the former French colonists, which was subsequently lowered to 60 million francs, and Haiti imposed heavy taxes on the eastern part of the island.

Since Haiti was unable to adequately provision its army, the occupying forces largely survived by commandeering or confiscating food and supplies at gunpoint. Attempts to redistribute land conflicted with the system of communal land tenure (terrenos comuneros), which had arisen with the ranching economy, and newly emancipated slaves resented being forced to grow cash crops under Boyer's Code Rural. In rural areas, the Haitian administration was usually too inefficient to enforce its own laws. It was in the city of Santo Domingo that the effects of the occupation were most acutely felt, and it was there that the movement for independence originated.

Josean

You by any chance are not a mathematician working for NASA there in Houston?

No my career involves lots of numbers and mathematical thinking but i don't work for the NASA.

Wow what a relief!

Mirabuena and Belly question

why are you so mad at the 22yrs Hatian occupation of DR which I am not justifying but not mad at the U.S and Spain accupation and the fother powers who are really occupying DR and corrupting your society and Gov ? I don't get it. it's just a question.

Also stop wasting your time arguing a problem that you are to small to resolve Bro, let it be in time things will change for the better. All the hate and negative attitude towards these folks are just gonna make things worst for your country. Remember, now the world is watching like it or not the power that be (U.S.A) will get in your business and there is nothing any of us can do about it. in another word Brother voice your opinon for something more positive. Get angry at the people you elected. They want the Haitians in DR as their are a great smoke screen...

Josean is a Hatian wana be Dominican that went to the USA on a yola and then he started shining shoes in NYC to support his crack habit. 10 years later this is what we have to live with.

ElProfe,

Your contribution does justice to your screen name and is invaluable to this forum.

AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! K I dont care anymore this is s****y. Who ever killed the guy i hope u die. no offense. Ou we sak fet anco san se pa mem onken moun ki mande puo sa fet. Oh bondieu ba a'hiti on ti shans non!!!!
:`(

oupala07,

Please don't take all the Haitian agricultural workers back home, then belly will have to pay 100 pesos per platano to make his mangu!

my brother from another mother oupala07 where u get this sexthing I aint read the whole thing but where you get it from anyways, dont u think its stupid i meen alot for haitians 2 keep on like going over there when they know something may happen like this i aint sayin its gonna happen but it may. y not just go 2 cuba or somewhere else other than there. Well the bahamas is just deporting ppl lik crazy but still. Ooh what about Jamaica I wonder what kinda work is ther?

the haitians need d.r but the problem is their are too many people and we need solutions. we are not trying to resort to violence.

You guys love to complain about things that we did to you when we were ruling you. If every nation should take a grudge against their brutal rulers, then there won't be no nations on this planet surface that would be friendly with one another. The Americans, the Scots, the Africans and all the others nations they have ruled with an iron fist would have kept hating the Brits. The Armenians would have always wanted revenge for their slaughter by the Turks. The Amerindians would have had a deep hatred for the Whites, and we the Negroes would have had our heart brimful of hatred for the every single white individual in the whole world.
I don't give a pigs foot in Hell for what my ancestors did to yours (Boyer rules) or for what yours did to mine (Trujillo massacre). What is important to me is what is happening today, and today what I notice is a nation that is so lost that it is still searching for an ethnic identity; a name for its land; a desire ot be white; a "folie des grandeurs"

to be thrust into the first world league of countries, and most of all which is spitting on a sister nation that has not been hostile toward it for more than a century.
You want to prove to the whole world that you are whires by treating us the same way the Plantation owners used to treat us. I don't give a damn' whether you hate us or not, because from now on I don't think you will ever find a friend in me. And believe me, if I was born in your land or I was among my people over there, I would have done the same thing the Tutsis have accomplished in Uganda, and it would have been very interesting to find out which one of the two nations has the best guerilla fighters.
Don't you worry though, what goes aroung comes around, and one day some of us will still be around to remind you what you used to do to our countrymen.
I always despise coward and fascist, and that's exactly what many among you are.

Misshaiti,

Check the CIA World Fact Book. Just google it.

Mirabueno,

There are not too many Haitians in your country. 11% of 9.6 million is a little bit more than 1.06 million. If there are 1.06 millions Blacks in your country, even if the Haitians constitute the majority of them (which I doubt), there won't be no more than 6 or 700 thousands of our countrymen and women over there. You people have let you elite and your politicians alienate and brainwash you at a certain level that you are playing exactly their game. However, when the Corporate scavengers who already own you and your country will start locking you out of your natural resorts, you'll shut your mouth and do nothing because they're Whites. However, when it is the time to trash, hunt down and kill Haitians, you find all your bravery back.

Belly, do you know how to read? I questioned your methods of arriving to such numbers. No one on earth determines any ethnic group's density based on how many trips they take to the hospital, how many crimes that specific groups commits, who are they displacing from jobs that should be in hands of the natives.

You are playing with the numbers the wrong way, have you ever worked for a census agency? are you close to one? if not, please run to the library and read the first chapter of any census data gathering manual and you will realize that you are crunching the numbers the wrong way. You are making us look like asses right now, belly.

Again, is not about rich or poor is about the actions and if the quantitative points you applied in order to get your number is applied to the Dominicans in NYC, they will be by far the largest minority group in the city.

Belly, italians, Irish are no longer considered minority, i hope you know that. As far as the others yes, but the larges

minority group in NYC after African American are the puertoricans, then dominicans, mexican and then all of south and central america and easter europe. By your method, the Dominicans ill even be larger than the African Americans, since they produce more arrest and crime when compared percentage wise. It is not fair to go about the way you did, since it does not pay attention to the quantity of people, but the action of segment of that people. The same is with the Dominicans in NYC that is reason why data is not collected that way.

Well said Guys as "the truth is seen not read or heard"

Good night msjersey; its safe for you to come out now!

FOR THE SAKE OF JUSTICE......LET JUSTICE BE SERVED. It's times like these where the Law must rule.

Dogtan,
The word Minority was made up during the "70's" [it sure helped Carter].....Thus Minority = minorie/minor= less then....... only cause People like Me did not look like them...who ever THEM is. It helped pave the way for MINORITIES to get that extra help needed to succeed [ Oh'Blama's white guilt vote ], thus creating a whole new class of Americans as a whole which only served to divide America even more then it was.....sounds like a Color issue....Ring a bell, "DA LEFT" feels it has the obligation to help the needy by keeping them just that "NEEDY"...more like control, They have all 'DA" answers so why try......THERE'S A PRICE IN GIVING GIVING, IT'S CALLED FREEDOM.
When ever any body calls me a MINORITY I send them to hell in a very nice way.

Dagtan

If you can't bring numbers that factual then how can you complain about the ones i put up. I mean no disrespect to you but you are just talking the talk but fail at walking the walk if you don't have factual info to put against mine then why are you trying to fill up with comments. NYC is in USA forget USA when we talking about this island please is that the only place that you know anything about. If you can't provide proof of what you are talking about then please leave the space empty to someone who actuallly is able to. Most of those criticizing the numbers but can't bring up facts against it.

Oupala07

The Haitian was killed by another Haitian read the story before talking trash. So as you can see the violence of your countrymen that you call defenseless is not so innocent as you claim it to be because is spitting into our land and we can't allow this to happen. If Haitians want to be in DR fine then get in line and get a visa like you suppose to in every other country.

"Don't you worry though, what goes aroung comes around, and one day some of us will still be around to remind you what you used to do to our countrymen".
you are just as brainwashed with such a statement. exactly what do dominicans have to be reminded of. trujillo is dead so cut the folly. thier is nothing to come around when millions of dollars are spent for people that multiply on dominican soil faster than plants. don't forget the hand that feedeth thee grasshopper!

My brothers oupala07 and dagtan,

"I sincerely admire your intellect and eloquence, but most of all I admire your patience in trying to educate the untutored mob!"
im happy to know that you finally have some sense of family. i could never understand the lie behind a dominican identity. sorry that din't work!

"The Haitian was killed by another Haitian read the story before talking trash".
apparently he isn't able to read belly. you have time for after school hour tutoring? LOL yeah racism towards dominicans will have an effect on someone when they place the blame on us constantly when beheadings occur.

@ oupala07,
11% of 9.6 million is a little bit more than 1.06 million, those are the legal ones, illegals are not counted. The problem between DR and Haiti is historical, but it's getting more critical due to haitian illegal immigration, believe me this is not about race or culture, it's about pure economics. DR will not be able to bear such burden, and believe me my country has been very tolerant and open minded about haitian immigration issue that we have decided to keep that border opened unlike some African countries have done. Let's talk about south to south migration for a moment, a very similar example of what's occurring today between DR/Haiti, it's happening between Botswana/Zimbabwe. Read a little bit and draw your own conclusions: www.afrol.com/articles/10498 ..and of course, you can find more about this on the web.

MIRABUENO

"The Haitian was killed by another Haitian read the story before talking trash".

Yeah! He was killed by another Haitians the same way the one who beheaded our countryman in broad day light has been protected by and the mob and the police who were quick to confuse everyone by stating that it was another man who did the beheading.
And I notice too as soon as you are caught pants down in your racism you are quick to throw the ball back at us.
Tell me how many times you heard a Dominican being molested or murdered in Haiti? If we were that racist your peasant women wouldn't have been able to flock in our country in the sixies and get back to theirs after a few years of sex labour with thousands of dollars.
So you have only Haitians natioanls as illegals on your soil? If not why is it it is our countrymen and women that are targeted by your thugs?

I've already told you what to do in order to prevent them to invade your country, but your governement won't implement it because it doesn't like us, but it needs our hard working folks to whom it pays peanuts.
So, you don't want us, it's fine to me, seal the damn' border and tell your agricultural and construction industrialist to stop paying passers in order to bribe and coerce our people go to a country where they are tolerated but not appreciated.
I told you again that if I was the President of my country, there'd be a long time since all the Haitians would have been repatriated and the border sealed tight. Just because you have a few billions dollars of GDP and a one line subway system in only one city, you think that you already reach the statute of first world country. And the laughing matter is that your president is even thinking about bidding for seat in the security council at the United Nations, what can be more pathetic?

You can try to swell your throat to idiots who don't know what it takes to be a first world country , but there are some of us you can't fool. And I tell you again that I swear to God if I was living among my people over there, either you would have wisen up or we would have have you suffer the faith of Uganda, because there would have been a fierce guerilla war raging in your mountains, and it would have been interesting to see who would have been able to beat who.
We hatians, never pick on foreigners even if we are slaughtering each other. Why? Because we have a deep sense of hospitality. And it is that deep sense of hospitality and friendship that put us where we are now.
I think it is time for us to stop the killing among ourselves and to turn our anger against the ones who wants to destroy us.

"And I notice too as soon as you are caught pants down in your racism you are quick to throw the ball back at us".
Since when was anyone caught in racism? are you dreaming an illusion which in essence gives you this erection of pleasure? give me a break and about dominicans being molested and murdered in haiti i have to say thier arent hardly any communities in haiti that have huge dominican populations. you have nobody to murder and molest. the dominicans are not among the general population in haiti like you are making it to seem.

Thank you Josean, but I am not here to educate anyone, just to let them know that I despise coward who like to pick on weaker than them. There was a time when the Dominicans would have thought twice before even pinching one of ours. Now they know that, thanks to them (the rebels who helped overthrow aristide were housed, fed, trained and departed from their territory) that we are defenseless and under foreign boots.
While we're being slowly destroyed, because we do not want to surrender our country and our sovereignty, they are being powdered and pampered like golden babies.
My message to them will always be the same: it takes only a good old hurricane or Earth quake to send you all back where we haitians are now. So, don't count us out yet, and don't count your money yet, because you ain't reach the finish line to the First world race, for the hare always had a good start on the turtle, but which one them won the race? I hope you know your Jean de Lafontaine well.

"but it needs our hard working folks to whom it pays peanuts".
maybe if we put a gun to everyones head haiti would empty out then! LOLOLOL

@ Oupala,
Just because you have a few billions dollars of GDP and a one line subway system in only one city, you think that you already reach the statute of first world country.
No my friend it's because our land is visited by 4 Million people per year; it's because we are the largest economy in the Caribbean; it's because we are able to share some of our bread with a million of your brothers in form of a job, healthcare, peace, land, education.
You know why dominicans are not bothered when we visit your country? because we lie about our nationality.
So you did not like the idea about having your african Botswanan brothers as neighbors?
It's so easy to talk...nonsense.

"it takes only a good old hurricane or Earth quake"
in a treeless enviorment that is!!! which you are responsible for.

@ Oupala,
" it takes only a good old hurricane or Earth quake to send you all back where we haitians are now" - Thanks for the good things you wish for my people. I hope Haiti reaches stability and prosperity so your good working humble peasants are able to find their way back to the only place on the earth where they will be fully respected and valued: Haiti.

In fact, after our independance war which we won as you know, we were in as a bad shape as we are now : our Plantations and our cities were destroyed and ravaged, we left almost a quarter of our population on the battlefield, but we rose from our ashes and rebuild our beloved country.
Therefore, as I said, just go ahead and enjoy your lead, for one way or the other, we will catch and overtake you. And as in the old time your disenfrenchised peasants who, in the meantime, would have lost all their rights on their land (because their government would have had all of them privatized, will flock again to our country.
Mark my words, because it is exactly what's happening now to your people and country, and it is not by taking to the streets that will change a thing, because your army and police are not serving your people anymore, but the new masters (World Bank and FMI).
I aint gonna wish you good luck, on the contrary, I will pray to see your country privatyization accelerated.

Perturdom,

YOU ARE VERY WELCOME.

"We will, as usual, catch you and overtake you economically and socially", you just have to give us a little bit more time to shake ourselves up from that deep sleep."

thats the problem you guys don't sleep because the zombies are proving you wrong with your deep sleep theory.
"but we rose from our ashes and rebuild our beloved country."

gee wasent that in vain?
just a whole lot of wishful thinking on your part because your envy is all over this page.

another thing is that you do not see any men running to haiti for the ladies. LOLOLOLOL

MIRABUENO,

Don't you worry guys, If the "Great" United States of America can't talk loud to China now, it means that one day your offspring will bow in front of ours. The way I see you now boys makes me feel that I am talking to a bunch of school children who don't even understand that playing time is almost over for them.
Just wait till next year when the Great Depression will fall on your heads, and I'll find out if you are still that arrogant. When your tourist industry will run dry, and the FMI will not be able to bail you out anymore then, will you do like the Pakistani? Will your President take his hat and go panhandle to China for an emergency loan?
You can talk now, because talk is very cheap these days, but when it is going to be the real deal, we will see who will laugh last. Don't you forget that you're more exposed to the hurricanes path than us. It will be really funny when your Capital city will be under water and that our mountainoues country will help us

against the up coming sea surge. Yeah! I will be very interesting indeed, because you are so egomaniac that you don't seem to understand the basic principles of geography and geology : your country is a mostly flat and is more prone to be flooded than ours. When you'll start being drown by the thousands, we haitians will be safe in our high mountains.
Therefore, you can laugh all your gut, I give you an appointment in Hell, let's say... Heemmm! What about in one or two years? Yeah! I think it will be soon enough for to start feeling the real pain of the coming Great Depression.

oupala: most rural people in DR know how to survive off of land, system-less. When the collapse hits in who know when(1-2 years or so), the 60% urban population will just go to where their rural relatives are. As for the flat country, there are a lot of mountanious regions in DR. I just don't know if the Haitians in Haiti will come down the mountains after floods since you guys have no trees to even grapple ground, which forecasting a rain in Haiti is almost like forecasting a hurricane.

Dragon you are just trying to cheer us up with your tale of societal collapse and we start killing each other like rats......In the meantime this thread is going for 250 plus maybe

this is hilarius,,,
Ocupala,
you are claiming that there is no knowlwdge of geographic,,,dont you know that DR have the highest mountain in the carribean, 3098 meter or 10,164 feet,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cieiufZsUZE,,
and haiti have the second chain de la sel,,with 9000 feet,, watch the video,,there is canadian weather out there, and this is not an invitation for you to move at there either.

Pico Duarte 10,164
Chain de la sel 9000
see even in mountain we dominican come on top.jajajajaja

Belly, you used the capital as your sampling, therefore, I used NYC as my sampling. Any effective data collection always looks at the best sampling and for Dominicans in the U.S. nothing gets better than NYC. However, if you want I can use the second best sampling which is located in MA and RI, let me know and I will get back to you with the data.

I will use the same conditions you used to get your numbers for the haitian population. i am not questioning your numbers, but the method and if the method is flawed, most likely the numbers will also.

See LIE-onel Fernandez practicing his Yola Ride to Puerto Rico in case things continue to get even worse!


http://www.noticiassin.com/www/?g....ay_article&aid=9714&tid=4

oupala07, Leave our great president Liojotnel alone= He knows better.

Dagtan
Belly, you used the capital as your sampling, therefore, I used NYC as my sampling.

Did you read the statement i made. Based on this one you just made i can tell you didn't understand. i made it very clear there that if ONLY THE CAPITAL is taken into consideration of the dense of the Haitian population then it would feel more like 4 million instead of 2 but there are place like San Francisco where the Haitian population is almost NON-EXISTENT. Please read and understand my statements before responding that way we spend more time into a conversation and less explaining a simple statement.

Belly go ahead call him a dummy ......you just did in so many words

Dagtan,

That why I never took those get a Phd in six months mathematics internet courses, but it seems belly is more adventurous than me!

Or was it GED well it was something with a D, my best grade in school by the way!

Josean

That why I never took those get a Phd in six months mathematics internet courses, but it seems belly is more adventurous than me!

No mine was called a high school diploma at JFK High school in NY and a computer science degree BCC in WA state. Now go look up on wikipedia i'll make sure it gets update so you can find the meaning there.

You mean there is another Encyclopedia I can use other than my World Book 1960 edition!

I am graduate of the State Pen myself, not to be confused with Penn State.

Belly, due to the fact that I can actually read well and critically look at things is precisely why I question your methods of data collection. Give me any location in the DR, with any haitian population you want, you can even set the population by design and then determine the numbers base on the number of crimes, hospital visits and job replacement/displacement that particular group has been part of.

Belly, I am not questioning your intelligence, and I think that I know how to read, hence noticing the many holes in your argument. It looks very much like swiss cheese methodology to me. What I am trying to do is prevent the presentation of fundamentally flawed information.

Give me the province and I will select a similar setting in the U.S., by population, not considering socioeconomic, education and employment level. With the number in hand, we'll run the censor system using your variables to determine population. You will then see that we'll both get the wrong number of p

Belly, interested you are a JFK graduate. I live in Riverdale and know JFK very well. I give you a little background of my education: St. john's University, BA, MA, MS and Fordham University, Ed. D, expected 2011. Therefore, I know a little here and there about polling and census methodology.

Finally, Belly what was your rank at JFK?

Dagtan

You will not find a state in the union with the same characteristics of Dominican Republic so you will have to come into DR and find out your self. but here is a good example once again if you have 1 million making up the 39% of the total hospital bill of 10 million people they either are sick with every virus known to human kind or the 1 million guess estimate is way off get it.

Dagtan

if you want to know more about me then do it thru PM.

He is going into 007 mode!

Second largest population of illegal aliens in the United States after the Mexican's, get whom ? You guys are so full of it ..................

Belly, it be will normal for haitians to be sicker than dominicans since their nutritional resources are less and suffers from the effects of scarcity among that ethnical group. It is expectable that those who go to the hospital from the haitian ethnical group will have to do multiple visitations due to the fact that they waited longer to go get help. This is because they have fear of being deported, so they wait until they are almost dead.

Hence needed multiple treatments in order to get them healthy. This common here in the U.S. among illegal immigrants. They often wait to the end and cost the system lots of money, since they need multiple visits.

The way this counted is as follow. Person x visit the hospital 20 times, to deal with bronchitis that has been plaguing that person for three months. If person y has a cold and goes to the hospital immediately, they will need one visit and maybe one more.

So, person x, visited the hospital 20 times, while person y visited the

at the end of the census, you have 2 people (x and y) that produced 22 visits to the hospital, so in thousand, you have 2k people producing 22k visits to the hospital. Do you see the discrepancy Belly.

dagtan,

I am submitting your name for the Nobel Prizes in patience and perseverance!

Camano

Cause you can post doesn't mean people here will believe it. Bring fact to your statement i.e. like some sort proof else it will be considered trash talk and trust me we know what it looks like. Dominican are present in 2 states by good numbers every where else is almost non-existent if you ever visit New York go to visit the statue of liberty withing that same island the have a HUGE screen that tell you density of population by country where the come from in each state. that or you can just look at a census and find out for your self but please don't join Josean and Dagtan because that would mean another person confuse with number and i just can't handle one more.

I am an educator, Josean and my attitude is WHAT EVER IT TAKES, to have the student (or person) understand that even if they have the right intentions, sometimes they go about it the wrong way.

Teachers after all never give up in the quest for achieving equal knowledge.

You seriously think that the several redefinitions of the border lines and the invasion of millions of Haitians are not hostile? Never forget the Plantation owners treated you like that there, we have never invaded Haiti to treat you anyway. All the 'bad' things done to Haitians, by Dominicans are always in DR, go figure. Thanks for your good wished, but if the Corporate scavengers that already own us can lock us out of our natural resorts, it means we still have resources. Sadly, the occupation forces today in Haiti can lock you out of anything. That should give pause and instead of being so worry about your countrymen in DR, think a little bit of the millions still in Haiti and the nice life they are presently living. So you have a deep sense of hospitality, and what do you offer to visitors? Maybe a glass of clean water? By the way, don't wish, just move here and please, please teach us your lesson, that may be exactly what Dominicans need to wake up.

Oupala, as per Unicef every year 30,000 Haitian children are bought in Haiti and send away for work, prostitution and begging. Who is more guilty, the parents that sell their children, the Haitians nets that buy them and send away or the receiving countries? Maybe Haiti should combat human trafficking and not leave it to the receiving countries. And if you don't know, the Negro traffic have never stop in Haiti, government officials still sell braceros for the sugar fields; in the book that make them negreros. But take all your peole back. Today there is not enough food, clean water, hospitals, and basic service, so they come here for health care and eat dirt cookies to survive. If suddenly a couple of millions are added, what do you think would happen? Maybe we would pay 100 per platano, but Haitians would start eating each other or simply starve in masses. So you can do it, start today, let's see how many would return voluntarily.

Let's wait till the Great Depression falls on our heads and let's see how Haiti would fare? We may do what you say, but what about your people? Would they go on their knees and cry and beg the world not to let them starve or eat each other? What the real deal would bring to your country given its present situation? And what is exactly what your mountains would do for you in a hurricane case that won't do now? Would the barren, ravaged, treeless mountains provide you with food or fuel?

Let’s Get Ready to Rumble.

"please don't join Josean and Dagtan because that would mean another person confuse with number and i just can't handle one more."

Like the METRO. he is strarting to crack !

Facts are stubborn things eh Belly!

Dagtan

So we can end this in peace please provide me proof of how you believe 1 million is the magic number. Once you can do that and i'm sure a "educator" like you shouldn't have a problem doing this simple math all the information needed is provide at www.one.gob.do once you provide then i will respond. else have a very good day and teach Josean something too while you at it.

The report only said Dominican officials without citing any specific sources, but to some people that is more believable than the national statistics for Hospitals, crimes and the construction industry. Haitians cross the border without any paper or visa, some with the nets of traffickers, most by themselves with their families, simple walking through the woods, so how would the CIA know about numbers. Some Haitians officials themselves have put the number about two millions, but the fact is that Haitians are not interested in being counted or accounted for, so they hide or move anytime someone is trying to count them, so one of the few sources are the statistics cited by Belly.

Belly, please take a look at my issue with your number: IT IS THE METHODOLOGY THAT YOU USED TO COME UP WITH YOUR FIGURE, belly. I did not question the number on the article, nor your number, but your methodology which wrong.

I have no idea how many haitians there are in the DR, since it will be impossible to get an exact number due to the difficulties of finding them and making them feel comfortable being counted.

I think that I was clear, about using data from hospital, job replacements, and crime a indicators for population density. It is fundamentally wrong to use those indicators, clearly debunked by me above.

Use the correct methods and then we talk. Read census methodology and you will what I am talking about.

dp

Oh now Micaela our arch rival, or to some our enemy has over taken us in Mango Production: creating the dreaded MANGO GAP.

How have the "backward stone age" Haitians and with no METRO or baseball players in the Major Leagues achieved this. They must be stealing our mango trees in the dark of night and taking them across the border. The Honor of the Dominican Mango is at stake we must not let this is insult to the nationality of the Dominican mango stand unanswered.

Lie-onel Fernandez must ask for a meeting of the UN Security council immediately to deal infamy!

http://www.moun.com/articles.asp?art=11080

http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti-archive/msg01949.html

http://www.up.ac.za/academic/agrirural/old/mango/Pdfs/wmprod.pdf

Dagtan

See you are thinking USA Way all the time have you stop and ask your self that 99% of immigrants in DR come from the same place so being off by 1% i would say is very accurate for a guesstimate. But anyways as you can see there are many methodologies that would work in certain place that won't work in USA because of it being a lot more diverse when it comes to immigrants that come to live in it. Just because this methodology won't work in USA census doesn't mean it won't work in other places. Other than Haitian the second largest population comes from Colombia and if you follow the news here you would have figure they are not working construction if you know what i mean.

Or was it GED well it was something with a D, my best grade in school by the way!..................It really shows that is for sure a semi literate with a vocabulary to match a mediocrity with a big mouth

Josean

So does Haiti over take of Venezuela in the mango industry means some by the way DR produces more Mangos than Venezuela too so does that mean that Venezuela should stop producing oil and concentrate on Mangos because they can't allow Haiti to be bigger LOL. DR the world #1 producer of organic chocolate so should USA stop the NASA project and start producing chocolate. Capitalist countries like to produce what sales not what looks good on a shelves and last time i checked we are a capitalist country. HAHA i can imagen Hugo Chavez calling for the complete shut-down of the oil rigs to bring everybody to the campos to plant mago trees that would be something funny to see.

Josean I am sure that you do know a lot more than I ever will about Haitians and their mangos. You just don't know a thing about Haitian situation in Dr or their own country, why they come, stay and adamantly refuse to return and, of course, you don't know how Dominican children benefits from sharing their overcrowded classrooms with Haitians children and how their presence improves Dominicans education opportunities.

I recommend you that instead of investigating the mango, you business take a trip to Haiti and you would understand, or maybe come to DR and talk to them, that would be even more clarifying.

Belly, Micaela,

As Haitian experts and future inductees to MENSA ,maybe you can review and comment on this point of view:

http://rwor.org/a/1239/haiti.htm

Josean

If you go to http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/..../Why-the-US-and-France-Hate-Haiti you will see my point of view there about what is happening in Haiti. I have said many times before that all the problems in Haiti are not created by Haitians there have been a lot destruction done by many big countries but this article is not about that and i hate to turn it into a different topic. By the way i started that thread in the forum. You should know that most Dominicans are willing to help Haiti but only to the point where is not affecting our progress but i guess that would be considered racism by some here which is not.

Thank you Josean, now you know a little more. Wrong, Henri's parents haven't fallen deeper into poverty, they still eat once a day, there are families that didn't eat yesterday, have not eaten today and don't know about tomorrow. As per Patrick in 1992 there were people begging for food, too weak to come up to the car, " Starving people" this is 2009, any idea of what is happening today? "What wages? What salaries? There are no jobs any more!" is self explanatory, 80% are unemployed, most people are hungry all the time. Now you know that the Dominicans don't have to lure Haitians to DR, they don't need to, Haitians come here simple to survive.

Haitians Survive on the Good Will of Haitians Abroad. There are about 2 millions in DR, although is not mentioned. U.S. Coast Guard patrols intercept Haitians at sea and return them to Haiti, but they are not trapped on their island, they do have an option: you guessed it DR.

Belly all the problems in Haiti are not created by Haitians, nor by Dominicans. We are helping them big time, but what we get in return? Defamation, insults, label as racist and xenophobes. You could see that nobody even mention us, although at least 2 millions have escaped starvation here and sure are helping the ones left behind.

"You should know that most Dominicans are willing to help Haiti but only to the point where is not affecting our progress but i guess that would be considered racism by some here which is not."

No that it is not racist!

What is racist is to blame all the country’s problem or even the majority of them on Haitian immigration. I will contend and die in the belief that the Damage done to our beloved republic subsequent to the overthrow of Juan Bosch by Dominican politicians is a million times worse than anything hungry desperate Haitian migrants could ever do. I would venture to say that a Haitian day labor contributes more with their labor and sweat to the country than ten parasite politicians of any of the political party put together.

Continued:

What makes us racist, isn’t wanting to defend the integrity of our national borders or sovereignty to control whom we allow or prevent from coming into our country, but rather to scapegoat our problems of rampant corruption and mismanagement on defenseless hungry human beings who see the other side of the border as paradise. Because there but for the grace of God go I Belly, and you as matter of fact!

More enlightening. Not to be racist, we simply should not use them as scapegoat to our problems of rampant corruption and mismanagement, but we still can send them back immediately, acknowledge that their presence does not help our current situation, that share with them our meager resources is not good for our poorest people and that the real responsible for their present situation and their massive exodus to DR are not us, that they don't come here because they are lured by our people, but come voluntarily, in an effort to survive -yes, yes, we do not control the borders, employ them (the ones not self-employed) paying less wages, as everybody else in the world, do not have a comprehensible emigration policy, etc. etc, but the main reasons for not wanting them here, have nothing to do with racism or xenophobic, but with sheer numbers and scarce resources-

Josean

I don't think you could find a Dominican inside or outside the country that believes our politicians are doing a great job if you do please allow me to meet that dummy so i can have something to laugh about in my bad days but that's a whole other subject. As we fight to keep our country moving forward whether that is deporting illegal immigrant from all source or choosing better policy makers that's something that we as Dominican have to do our selves so do Haitians have to do too in their country because if DR becomes another Haiti where else can they put 2 million people without causing a civil war if you follow the news DR is the only country on this planet that has done that for a very long long long time and now to the point where is affecting us so we do have to scale back of how much we would allow before we are turned into another Haiti thats not racism is something every country does just like USA does to Mexico and how they do to Canada.

No problem with anything in your last comment Belly. Although I contend that 2 million illegal Haitians in the country is to high.

Micaela, once again running your mouth and giving zero solution, NADA, micaela. Please give me some SOLUTIONS, SOLUTIONS, please, you are killing me with your rants and no solutions. At least come up with a plan that you think it will work. You continue to feed us the usual, it is like that is the only thing you know how to write. Micaela this is all I know about your point of view, 2 millions haitians, Dominicans sharing the meager resources (you love the word meager, change it to limited next time), haitians not contributing to our economy, making our culture worst, they need to go back, using our hospitals, haitian elites.

I have basically summarized all your posts here on DT for the past months.

You have never say anything about what needs to happen in DR to solve the problem.

Belly, great last post. I am glad to see that you believe in the creation of a comprehensive system to deal with the issue.

Micaela, which one, comprehensible or comprehensive, they are di

"haitians not contributing to our economy, making our culture worst, they need to go back, using our hospitals, haitian elites."

If we are not contributing to your economy why don't you tell your president to deploy two brigades on the border area in order to stop the flow of illegal immigrants. You know very well he won't do that because if he does, you won't be able to eat and to have a home to live in.
You are talking about making your culure worse. Since when did you have a culture? If you want your own culture, then give us back the merengue and stop dancing it.
I don't think I will answer to underachievers like that.
Unfortunately, she is not the one of her kind, because there are plenty knucleheads like her back home who thinks just because they know how to use a computer they are intellectual for that.
Go do your homework and come back when you're done girl, because not all hatians are illiterate peasants.

Micaela,

Neither the Dominican government can sent back immediately ALL the illegal Haitians nor could the United States send back immediately ALL the illegal Mexicans and others.

Like it or not just from a practical economic non emotional reality, this would cause economic havoc in either country.

This is like loosing weight, you did not gain it overnight nor will you be able to lose it quickly either.

It has to be a gradual consistent plan to get the most a long lasting benefit with out killing the patient.

I guarantee you that there are average Dominicans that depend on the labor services of Haitian workers and small business like colmados, clothing stores etc. who would lose a significant amount of income if this were to happen overnight.

continued:

So it needs to happen in intelligent, humane and coordinated way with Haitian and Dominican authorities to create the least negative impact possible on both sides of the border, if we truly want a meaningful and lasting solution once and for all.

If not the medicine could be worse than the ailment!

Josean

So it needs to happen in intelligent, humane and coordinate way with Haitian and Dominican authorities.

See here is the problem yes we have to coordinate but only to a point and here is a example in 2008 127 Haitians waiting to be deported at the border and Haitians authorities keep saying they were not Haitian because they had no prove but If Haiti won't even provide a birth certificate and you have 127 people that only speak creole where on earth can they be from so the Dominican authorities did what they supposed to do leave them on their side and shove it down the Haitian authorities. We have to work together to a point until they can prove that they are taking responsability for their own citizens else those cases likle this will keep repeating at the border. Did you know that almost 70 percent get release the same day after being deported so what solution do you have there. there are many instances like this one happening everyday.

We do have to treat them like human but we just won't treat criminals that illegally cross the border like kings and queens that's a big no no. Everybody expect Dominican authorities to behave like humans but no body has any expectation from Haitian authorities whats so ever.

Any way Que viva Chavez From Venezuela OK!.

Belly and Josean, you both have made tremendous progress since this morning. I believe that your divergent point of views come together at the end. Belly, I know about your point and in past posting have called the haitian government out on their lack of desire to end the situation. That is the reason why I believe that the DR needs to initiate and show the international community that the country is working towards solving the issue in respectful and legal way. Remember, neither side trust the other due to the past atrocities that have been committed on each people. However, someone has to initiate the process of rebuilding that trust.

I charge the DR with such initiation, since it is in our best interest to have a comprehensive and effective system in which haitians can move back and forth legally.

Finally, remember that our deportees are released to their families once they arrive. So do not jump on the haitians for that, they know this Belly. One problem that I see, co

is that everyone here, except the haitians underestimate the haitian's ability to process information and develop strategies. Remember, that Haitians have been tinkering with government much earlier than us, those skills do not away.

It is true that it has not work as they wished it would had work, but that does not take away their ability to survive in the hell hole that they are. Politically, this is a real feat to see them managing to hold on for another day.

I believe that one day there will be cross migration to a higher degree between the two countries. A friend of mine who was in haiti for three years a peace keeper told me that he saw a lot of dominicans working as hair dressers in the capital and petient (typo) If anyone has any specifics on this, please elaborate.

@ Oupala,
I do have a problem when some ignorants question dominican culture. If in deed we copied our Merengue from your Kompa, may I ask why your Kompa is not popular outside Haiti?
What about Bachata is it yours as well?
What I believe is that our culture is so strong that we influence your people coming in and some haitian border towns like Juana Mendez....sorry Ouanaminthe. If haitian culture is so strong as you say, then how come you are the ones learning Spanish?, and no one that I know cares a penny about learning Creole or even French.

"So it needs to happen in intelligent, humane and coordinated way with Haitian and Dominican authorities."

Belly,

The operative word in my statement is “coordinated” between the two governments to deal with the concerns you have, whether they are anecdotal and minor or documented and paramount. This is why there has to be negotiations and constant collaboration between the two parties and some cash from the historical culprits of this situation France and the US to finance expedite the process.

Now remember there are very powerful interests on both sides of the border and beyond who make a very good profit from the status quo and that’s why it has been allowed to exist for so long.

In fact I would not be surprised if some of the are not reading some of these post, which could lead to an embryonic start of form a solution who are worried that these ideas could get and audience and start to take root.

Continued:

Some could loose significant financial benefits if not outright devastated. And remember I am talking about both sides of the border and beyond.

I believe every problem in the world has a solution a long as people are willing to work on it and willing to accept its outcome.

Josean

Once the Haitian gov start acting like a real gov then people will start respecting their citizen otherwise it will never happen. see every body expects DR to behave like human but unless we put that same expectation towards the Haitian gov we won't get any where. Is like if a father ask his kids not to drink while he is drunk is doesn't work that way in real life. I know you are talking about both sides but if they have fail at providing a basic need as a birth certificate do you really think any body will take it seriously see we can wish all we want but then there is the reality of life that wakes us up every day.

Dagtan

In the world we live in you have to prove your self every single day it doesn't matter how good you were 200 years ago. In real crear fama y acostarse a domir doesn't work. You have to prove every day that you are able to handle everything even if the dynamics of the game changes.

Josean

yes every problem in the world has a solution when you have two parties in conditions and willing to negotiate but when one party have been irresponsible for the last 200 years that's a cookie that's hard to swallow by the other party. Unless we all start expecting Haitian Gov. to pick in their responsibility we can't negotiate at the same levels.

Belly,

I am not in the business of wishing anything.

I don't know how much clearer I can be by restating for the third time it must be COPRDINATED by both governments. If the Haitian authorities fail to cooperate then we are both members of the UN and we can present our concerns for resolution or possible to the world court.

But again remember OUR governmentS serve the interest of the wealthy and the powerful first, if not exclusively, and until they (the wealthy) feel it is their interests to change it will be very, very, very difficult for change to occur; unless there is a massive ground swell from the masses or WE change the governmentS to one that really represents the best interests of the masses.

Belly,

That why negotiations are not easy if they were the Arab Israeli conflict would have solved a long time ago but they keep at. Certainly you would agree that the complexity of our differences with Haiti over illegal immigration pale in comparison.

Here is little historical information on another very difficult negotiation related to a Hot War in the middle of the Global Cold War:
“One of the largest hurdles to effective negotiation was the fact that North Vietnam and its ally in South Vietnam, the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (NLF, or Viet Cong), refused to recognize the government of South Vietnam; with equal persistence, the government in Saigon refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the NLF.

Continued:

Harriman resolved this dispute by developing a system by which North Vietnam and U.S. would be the named parties; NLF officials could join North Vietnam team without being recognized by South Vietnam, while Saigon's representatives joined their U.S. allies.

A similar debate concerned the table to be used at the conference. The North favored a circular table, in which all parties, including NLF representatives, would appear to be 'equal' in importance. The South Vietnamese argued that only a rectangular table was acceptable, for only a rectangle could show two distinct sides to the conflict. Eventually a compromise was reached, in which representatives of the northern and southern governments would sit at a circular table, with members representing all other parties sitting on individual square tables around them.”

Imagine the even had to negotiate the configuration of the tables while Americans and Vietnamese were still dying everyday.

Continued:

So Belly, don’t you think we could negotiate a repatriation agreement with Haiti and a legal immigration policy?

THIS IS A NEW DT RECORD WITH 209 ENTRY'S..........AND COUNTING. I just didn't think it would be with a murder. LET'S HOPE JUSTICE IS SERVED.

"Josean Da Chosen"
Why use Vietnam as an example....Korea's crap boiled down to who's flag was the biggest at the signing table [ turns out the biggest North Korean Flag in the World is approx. 400 meters South of Propaganda Village, let the N/Korean's eat there flag for food ] I've been there I've seen with my own two eyes the BS at the UN Controlled JSA on the DMZ in PonMunJom, Korea near Camp Bonafide & Camp Kitty Hawk . the U.S won the battles as always just lost the war due to Liberal ideology's. The best war is no War in my own book, Kinda like Oh'Blama's Afghanistan BS, let me know when YOU become an Oh'Blama BS warrior. "Da BS stops when the hammer drops".

Dagtan sorry no to have your brilliant solution and methods to implement it. Now is embarrassing that you could show my points in two sentences, while I need so much to show yours. Let's see. About yourself: I am a school administrator in NY. My posts are generated by knowledge and knowledge alone. I have my education and good job. It only show me the respect you have for my intellect. as I had mentioned before, I am a high school principal. I decided to stay in the city and become a role model for those that look like me. White Plains HS was drooling over me two summers ago, I am so happy I was able to get out in time and be saved by education. i happen to be one of the few Dominican High School Principals in NYC. many of my family is entrenched in media cicles of Santiago, people like Garcia, Betance, Vargas. I love writing, and especially here, since all most of you do is write phrases with no substance to support your argument.

About DR. We are not fairing any different in the DR than Haitians in Haiti, if you compare the two economy. do you know which country in the caribbean has the higher rate of sex tourism/ do you know which country in the caribbean has the greatest number of prostitutes in western europe? and finally, do you know which country in the caribbean has the highest rate of child trafficking? You see the problem here is the lack of education on the part of the dominican population. We Dominicans often look at this problem from a different point of view once we migrate and get an objective education and not subjective and hollow one as the one the offered in Dominican schools. The poor people in DR are not worth to cents. After all there is still some smart people on the island, this lady is one of them.About DR DR should become worried about their mediocre education system, which is only doing better than Haiti's. Dominicans will not able to compete with bi-lingual or even tri-lingual haitians

It is because of advocates like me that many Dominican or minority students are able to enjoy the rights that are owed to them as human beings. About DR DR should become worried about their mediocre education system, which is only doing better than Haiti's. Dominicans will not able to compete with bi-lingual or even tri-lingual haitians. I can not even believe that they are insinuating that the Haitian government is any worse than the Dominican government, the indoctrination of an unhealthy, uneducated, hungry and out looking people continues. the DR can not complete its work projects without the cheap labor provided by Haitian, two, it can not collect on the millions of dollars from incentive in the sugar, rice, tobacco, banana and mining industries in the country. how are we going to mechanize our industries when there is no skill development on the island,. Our schools are only better than the haitian's ones

About Us: MICAELA, JR, MIRABUENO, OLD-SCHOOL-TRINITARIOS could use some more schooling to refine their positions and maybe, just maybe they'll be able to across without showing their limited knowledge about DR. If you notice, their post often does not contain any original or cognitively rich material, not only are you ignorant, but elitist as well. Your group does not have something that the educated Dominicans here in the U.S. (at least for the ones i know and that share a common view) have which is the monetary resources and the connection with the educated class here in the U.S. who happens to be liberal for the most part. You guy talk a lot of garbage and don't do anything about it. Where is that ignorance coming from, why you just can not have a fair argument and prove your point. you clearly know that your argument will not hold water any where you go except your narrow mind. you sound so freaking ignorant that is freaking embarassing to even be dominican.

Again I do n ot know if some of you actually has the education or training to read and make sense of such reports. if you do not turn such passion into actions, them shut up. That is the reason why Dominicans no longer mobilize, because they have these loud mouths that are always talking, but never do anything about the problem. Micaela, it shows that your education is not as solid as I though for one second. You do no see any company transferring skills and technological knowhow to the DR, they just come on vacation and import workers, wake up. You know, you guys are simply speaking with your heart and not your brain. Maybe if you would have gone to school and learn that there is a time and place to get your emotions involved in politcal issues

And finally the best, your solution: we should deport haitians in humane way and establish a migratory system to deal with the legalization of those that have family or deserve documents. I do agree that all illegal should be deported, but this should be the last resort to solving the problem. we should keep an effective record keeping to prevent them from coming back and if they ever come back then give them jail time. Your methods to implement your brilliant solution:…..

My thought on the dead Haitians....

now there is 999,999 left.

In SF ...Haitians and crack go to gether like a sock and a shoe....

No tears from me!!!

Therefore, racists like micaela and others instead of spiting on us must stick their fingers where the problem is and stop pointing it at us.
In fact, I understand them perfectly, they do not want us overthere, but they don't question how the food they are eating every day and the roof over their head have been produced. All they see is a bunch of niggers that come to darken their light Taino skin, and they do want them out asap dead or alive.
What is refreshing though is the fact that right behind the Triplex (a three apartments block) in which I am leaving in Montreal, dwells the loudest and most joyful Dominican family in Montreal according to my own estimation.
They are always welcome to attend our Haitian parties and they love and our music and our food. I don't hear them talk like Micaela and Cie.
What I notice though is the fact that people living in this island, whatever it is the Eastern or the Western side of it, are fitted with the same tremendous ego and the same .

sense of denial. The only difference is one side is Africanized, mostly Black and speaksCreole while the other side is less Africanized, mostly mixed and speaks spanish.
And believe me, I am so glad that I don't look like neither side.
This island is maybe the most beautiful one in the world but it is inhabited by the most two idiotics nation in the whole damn world too.
I don't feel connected to either one of them socio economically and polically (they are too backward). The only cannon ball, I will have to trailed for I don't know how long, is the fact that I am Haitian and that I can't turn my back from my origin even though I am totally different from their way of thinking, for it's sucks and stinks.
IT'S A LOST CAUSE AND FOR YOU THE DOMS AND FOR US THE HAITIANS.
Therefore, I'll wait and see which one of the two entities the Darwinism will allow to survive the Arrawaks.
Wealthy or not, we are the shame of the 21st Century, and we shouldn't even exist.

oopala07 you are just trying to cheer us up with all this sunny talk

Did anybody saw "Listin Diario" today monday they have a story of a good act by 5 of aur dear neighbors "5 Haitians raped and robbed 5 Russian turists".
Where is SONIA PIERRE or SOLAN PIERRE (HATIAN NAME) she's the AL SHARPTON FOR HATIANS IN DR.

Did anybody saw "Listin Diario" today monday they have a story of a good act by 5 of aur dear neighbors "5 Haitians raped and robbed 5 Russian turists".
Where is SONIA PIERRE or SOLAN PIERRE (HATIAN NAME) she's the AL SHARPTON FOR HATIANS IN DR.

Did anybody saw "Listin Diario" today monday they have a story of a good act by 5 of aur dear neighbors "5 Haitians raped and robbed 5 Russian turists".
Where is SONIA PIERRE or SOLAN PIERRE (HATIAN NAME) she's the AL SHARPTON FOR HATIANS IN DR.

MY MY this is a new DT record, and counting.....

"Josean Da Chosen"
In my prime old age History has taught me that no matter who's in power Right or Left it's still the same old BS. Now it's Oh'Blama's Afghanistan and why he's still deciding [ one can not appease every one ] what to do next our Military Soldiers and innocent Civilians are being killed.

TO ALL...
After all is said and done let's HOPE the Haitian situation gets resolved quickly where all Parties concern will benefit, let's first start with the rule of LAW and JUSTICE after all that's where real leadership kicks in. THEY CAN LEAD YOU INTO THE BS OR LEAD YOU OUT.
Meanwhile they say with age comes wisdom.......the "WISDOM TO KNOW BETTER".
ALL TAKE CARE.

There goes the Russian Tourist Industry.

Grosero I understand you, it's not easy to live without a brain. Now you have spewed your ignorance, you can proceed to the garbage trash where moron like yourself belong.

CAREFUL.....many times the Media will report any/all related situations on a curtain news topic in order to sell more papers thus creating Public hype.

Until ALL details are known it's wise to let Law Enforcement handle any / all crime related issues to avoid mob rule. As I stated let the rule of LAW and JUSTICE take it's course.

Micaela,
GREAT IDEA ! on your last entry.....The last time I was in the DR I meet a Haitian in La Romana who told me that it cost Him around 2000 Dominican pesos to enter Illegally.
In my opinion lets first start cleaning house with the FEW corrupt Dominican Military and Border Officials who turn a blind eye when there's under the table money involved.
A Country where there is no law is an Outlaw Country, nobody is above the Law.
Again one has to ask.....WHERES THE RULE OF LAW ?

oupala07 don't tell us, you don't feel connected to either one of them socio economically and polically (they are too backward). Yes you are totally different from their way of thinking, for it's sucks and stinks, because you have a shelter, job, food, clean water, health care, basic service, guarantee human rights. Return to Haiti, not to share their lot, just to see them starving, dying for lack of health care, not jobs, no human rights or dignity and then you would understand why they suck and stink, return to your origins and then let us know what you think. For starter, check this site.


http://rwor.org/a/1239/haiti.htm

this is from 10-17-09 Dajabón.- La policía de Haití arrestó ayer a nueve ganaderos dominicanos que ingresaron sin documentos a ese país en búsqueda de reses sustraídas por supuestos cuatreros haitianos que logran entrar con facilidad a territorio dominicano, denunciaron los propios afectados.

Oct-02-1937 Trujillo speech in the fronteras after so many complain by catlle rancher of what was to come after the Haitian resorted to this same tactic.

"For some months, I have traveled and traversed the frontier in every sense of the word. I have seen, investigated, and inquired about the needs of the population. To the Dominicans who were complaining of the depredations by Haitians living among them, thefts of cattle, provisions, fruits, etc., and were thus prevented from enjoying in peace the products of their labor, I have responded, ‘I will fix this.’ And we have already begun to remedy the situation. Three hundred Haitians are now dead in Bánica. This remedy will continue."[5]

holy moly!!! 200 plus posts. Is this a record?

Wait till the sun goes down and the xenophobic Vampires are able to leave their coffins!

REGULACIÓN

Estiman que RD no saldrá de la miseria por migración haitiana

"Sin embargo, para el corresponsal en el país del periódico francés Le Monde, Jean-Michel Caroit, en el tema de la migración haitiana hay hipocresía de mucha gente porque todo el mundo sabe que esa migración de indocumentados conviene a los sectores económicos.

Dijo que a esto se agrega el problema sanitario, el educativo y el de seguridad nacional, “es decir hay una serie de problemas colaterales que se han unido a esta visión del mundo”.

Señaló que existe una gran hipocresía en la comunidad dominicana al abordar el tema de la migración ilegal de haitianos y destacó que es conocido que la modernización de la industria azucarera se ha hecho con la sobreexplotación de la mano de obra haitiana, lo que también ocurre con otros sectores productivos.

Continued:

“Todo el mundo sabe que el precio del metro cuadrado construido en Santo Domingo no es el mismo que el construido en París, Londres, Estados Unidos o en otras partes de América Latina, por el muy bajo costo de la mano de obra haitiana. El mismo Estado la está empleando y todo el mundo lo sabe, la construcción del metro se ha hecho a base de mano de obra ilegal haitiana”, apuntó el periodista francés."


http://www.listin.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=118615

josean keep fighting the haitian cause even if you are dominican by birth, the good lord will reward you.

Welcome back Missy!

dp

I wonder what the same that same news paper thinks about how France have done everything they can to bring Haiti to the current situation. French have no rigths what's so ever to even mention the word Haiti after getting their *** whip and handed over now they acting like they care come on French if we are to have a humane conversation why don't just put the cards on the table or like Bosch said. "Do we play by the same rules or should we just break the cards"

josean, did i get personal?
my bad brother. take a tylenol.

"Wait till the sun goes down and the xenophobic Vampires are able to leave their coffins!"

that is a hell of a thing for you to say como un buen hijo a la casa! LOL sorry but such stuff goes on where zombies exist! you are still unlearned you fake.

Missy,

I never take it personal: “Its only business Micky!”

I was sincerely welcoming you back since you said so long!

Micaela, I am so excited that you look up to me so much. Very impressive, I am sure you use some of my phrases among your friends to look smart.

In all seriousness Micaela, change the subject please, you seem to believe in the drill training method: which is, if you repeat yourself every so often, maybe they memorize it, but not hear it or learn it.

dagtan this a not a place to measure your penis so get lost light switch!!!!! go mess with the prietos ojiste?

Which prietos, the 84% in the DR or the 30% in the U.S.? Let me know mirabueno.

Oupala do I spit on you when I say that in Haiti there is not food, water, jobs, shelter, health care, basic services, or that Haitians have resorted to eat dirk cookies or come to DR to survive?

The problem is not in Haiti, from where they would do anything to escape starvation? Do you honestly believe that if Haitians would find a decent way of living in their country they would come here to be abused, exploited, discriminated and everything else. And please don’t worry about the food we eat or the roof over our head, we would take care of it one way or another. Worry about the lack of food and roofs and everything else for Haitians in their country. Of course you and your neighbors in Montreal, who are not competing for food, health care, school, basic services or safety, can be the best friends in the world. If both were living in one of the misery belts around any Dominican cities and they take your motoconcho passengers, or your job,

i met girl in DR then hated Haitians ... would always talk about them in a negative light....... But then she admitted that she married one.

El Profe what is your stance???? I know your NOT Dominican and your view is Bais......

Dagtan it's not only me; you have forced everybody in the forum to look up to me so much, and on the contrary, I think that you reuse your own phrases so often, because you thing their make look smart. I am the one asking, but I am sure that except for Josean, everybody is sick of knowing sooooo much about you, your education and yes, that you have a great job. The drill training method you are using is a waste, by the first 10 times you repeated yourself, everybody was more than well drilled.

PepeLopez, I don't hate Haitians, on the contrary I wish the best for them, in Haiti, of course, because I think that as everybody else, they have the right to have a decent life in their own land.

I just want a country that the next generations of Dominicans can call theirs, with Spanish as main language, eating their bandera, with piel india in all the hues if they so feel, in sum, be dominicans as their can only be here without being criticized, discriminated, humiliated and Haitians, with their massive exodus are endangering that country. If they stay, keep coming, with their rate of reproduction soon enough would be so many, that there would be no possibility to do anything, even if we attempt to do it in a comprehensive, legal, humane, dignify way. How much would it cost, how would we sort out to return millions of Haitians, would they go pacifically, could we force Haiti to take them back, would the international community support us?

By the way, I didn't marry one.

Micaela,

The words I'd like to throw at you worth much more than your small personality in order to waste them. It is really pathetic that a chicken brain like you who thinks, just because she can use a computer and type a few sentences in English, she is on the top of the world.
Yes "hermosa" (I hope at least you are), if we repatriated our nationals from your soil, would you go and plow your fields yourserlves? Would you go and work in your construction industry?
As far as food is concerned, even though your government has helped overthrow Arisitde paving, by the same token, the way to our country occupation, and its plunder by your yankee masters, we still have enough to eat, because the more than 600 millions dollars trading exchange we have with your country includes also the food we need.
So you see, we not only work in your fields to feed you, but we buy your food too, therefore, if I was you, I'd show a little more respect for Haitians.

Little upstart like you will always stay small in their personality and in their brain. We Haitians are suffering now because of what we have accomplished in the past. It makes our old masters hate us because we whip their asses, and small people like you envy us because they will never achieve the kind of exploit our armies have accomplished on the battlefield.
You are not the only one who despise us, even the South Americans we have liberated have betrayed us, aren't they thanking us now by occupying our country for the Yankees?
I've already told you to not worry and that instead of messing up yourself with speeches worthy of a knucklehead, you better prepare yourself when the World Bank and the IMF will lock you and your people out of your country resort and facilities.
We Haitians, even if we are poorer than you, we still can make it because we do not virtually owe anything now, and even though we're not entitle to receive any loan (and it's a good thing), we can slowly climb

If you don't have any love for Dominicans, why worry about how we would fare without Haitians? Who plow our fields and work in our construction industry would be a Dominican problem and you are Haitian, so please don't waste your precious time worrying about us, there is enough to worry about your country and your people.

I'm sorry you think that the true is disrespect. Go back to Haiti and then have the guts to repeat that they still have enough to eat. You didn't you check the site, in 2004 people were starving, what do you think is happening now or would happen if at least a million and a half are added to the actual population. So before repeating what you heard from interested parties, go back and them let us know how much food have people that didn't eat yesterday, have not eating today and have not idea what would happen tomorrow.

way back out of poverty. But you who owe all your gut to the world bank and the IMF, when the world economy will collapse, it will be very interesting to see how you're gonna cope with deflation and stagflation.
I think intellingent people are wasting their time with you, because it looks like apart Haitian bashing, your little pea soup brain can't find anything else to say as a good conversation, likewise a fool will always stay a fool even if he/she is trying to quote and paraphrase smart people.
Believe me, my Dominican girl friend was 1000 times smarter than you are, and she was not that educated.

I am not us start, I am Dominican, and we were never your masters but were precisely the ones that whipped your asses. So recheck your history, the untrained, badly armed Dominicans defeated your powerful army time and again, yes the same one that achieved that kind of exploits in the battlefield and when you send you packing back to your side, didn't have to pay you a penny. Therefore, according to your logic, we have no reason to be envy, nor to hate you.

When the World Bank and the IMF lock us out of your country resort and facilities, guess what, the Haitians would be locked out with us, so what would they do? Yes you can slowly climb our, but please not so slowly that take you another 209 years.

Well, thank you to have finally proved to me that your are a real knuclehead who wants to meddle in smart people conversation. Therefore, I take back everything I have wasted some very useful brain power to label you, because you don't even deserve those words.
My advice to you is to try to reason out like some of your fellow countrymen and to try to seek a permanent solution to the problems the two nations are facing right now.
And most of all, when you read and don't understand for the first time, go over the text again and again until you finally get it.
I don't even find it useful to even bother keeping this debate alive with you. So hermosa, go refresh your education and come back to me when you think, like some of your brilliant contrymen on this site, you're ready to engage someone in a debate and defend your point correctly and intelligently, for everything I am reading from you so far is pure crap.
Get that kiss anyway because I hate to verbally molest a woman.

we need to deport any illegal imigrant in the dominican republic. the dominican republic needs to be up on that. there are alot of illegal haitians living in dominican republic and not all of them are honest hardworkers. you also got your drug dealers and crooked haitians so we need to deport any illegal living in dr

we need to deport any illegal imigrant in the dominican republic. the dominican republic needs to be up on that. there are alot of illegal haitians living in dominican republic and not all of them are honest hardworkers. you also got your drug dealers and crooked haitians so we need to deport any illegal living in dr

Yes Opala07, you are right, but just go to Haiti and see if it is Dominican racism that is starving your brothers and sisters there and if their living conditions are the same you so happily enjoy in Canada. What we owe to the world bank and the IMF or your hopes deflation and stagflation affects us badly won't help them a bit, on the contrary the worse we are, the worse they would be, because then they would have no place to run, and those facts are not affected by my inteligence, education of anything a may say.

Micaela hermosa,

I think you should be my girl because it would have helped you comprehend a lot of thing that is floating around you without even understand their meaning. You better forget about my people, because we already know who we are. We are one of the most resilient ones in the world.
We will outlast and you and the United States and Spain and France.
If you have the slightest idea why those countries have decided two centuries ago to contain us, you would have been quick to have haitian blood in your family tree.
Let me give you a hint. Do you know that during our civil war between Alexander Petion and Henri Christopher, the American spent millions of dollars to supply the mulatto Petion with weapons. Yeah! They did this because they didn't want King Henry to win the war, because it would have been the end of their independence.
In fact, the British Crown had the project to use the Haitians army to reconquer its lost American colonies.

Only 11,000 legal Haitian residents

Nobody really knows how many Haitians are living in the Dominican Republic. Recently, former United States President Jimmy Carter stated that it was "impossible" to stop the flow of Haitian nationals across the border. These comments gave the Ministry of the Interior and of the Police the idea of implementing a Plan for the Regulation of Immigrants, but nobody really knows the extent of the problem. Estimates on the number of Haitians in the Dominican Republic vary from half a million to as many as two million. However, Migration director Admiral Sigfrido Pared Perez says that only 11,000 legal Haitian residents are registered, and he does not believe that there are more than a million Haitians living in the DR. His own estimate is that some 500,000 Haitians are living here.
In 1991 the National Statistics Office (ONE) said that there were 245,000 Haitians in the country, and in 2003 the Foreign Ministry said that there was a million.

Cont:

In the nation's first census, in 1920, 89 years ago, 28,258 Haitians were registered as living here, and there were 894,665 Dominicans. Pared Perez said that he thought that the Haitian presence in the Dominican Republic could be regulated, although it would be necessary to apply the Migration Law 245-04 and to proceed with proposals to enforce it, such as a census to register all foreign nationals, proposed in 2005.

Source DR1

In those times King Henry was the British Crown ally and the Yankees'enemy. His navy used to board and search american merchant ships in order to find slaves that were still being smuggled from Southern Haiti (controlled by the mulattoes) to the Southern states in the US, And yes! You hear very well (the slave trade did not end with our independence, it was still practiced by our so called mulatto brothers way after 1804.)

So hermosa, don't engage yourserl in conversation that would be a killer for you, because it breaks my heart to be angry at a woman. Learn, do some research and even if you must be vitriolic at my people, find the right reasons and not the ones that your emotions have been dictating you. In Canada where I am living, I defend all the time your people from the venom of some of my countrymen, because I know not all of you are wicked haters. Why should I have to do that? Because I judge with objectivity and impartiality and not with my emotions.
Hasta la vista.

For someone who revels in pointing out the chauvinism in others, I find it mightily strange to find you indulging in the same vice, oupala. As for the british, you're damn right in pointing out their closeness to your country. In fact, I'd say that you owe them big time for your independence, cuz' if it weren't for the timely intervention of the british navy in blockading the island's coasts, it's a sure thing that Bonaparte would have crushed your revolution by sending unending waves of reinforcements. If something, one would have to commend the french army for holding out as long as they did after being ravaged by yellow fever and the sheer numbers of the rebels. Although, one have to say that the british didn't offer this aid out of the goodness of their hearts, but as a means to an end, mainly, stopping the napoleonic march to universal conquest, no matter the cost.

Thanks prof Lautaro for bringing some senses here. Micaela and Oupala when a debate reach to a point where insult are being traded you both need to cool down and reconsider your approach.

Thanks, mi estimado antonioj. The conclusion is inevitable to reach, specially when one studies the revolutionary process in Guadeloupe, which happened at the same time of the one in Saint Domingue (Haiti) but which had a very different outcome.

Hey Antonioj,

I've already apologized in a certain way to hermosa Micaela, even though she hasn't stopped to be on Haitians case for a while. Besides, I hate trashing women, and that is the reason why I had offered her a big kiss for some unholly terms of mine.

My friend Lautaro, Bonaparte would have never been able to win that war. He was a brilliant military commander, but his army would have been defeated one way or the other.
First, as the "Chargé d'affaire," that the British Crown had sent to sign the formal treaty with Toussaint Louverture, had stated it to his King, and I qjuote : "The Haitians are not interested in returning to slavery, they will fight and die to the last man," en of quote.

Second we were the first army to engage the enemy in chemical warfare. Forget about that shit of malaria or yellow fever. No my friend, the French army has been decimated by what we call here home "magic powder". If someone just blow it on your skin, you're dead, and we

I don't think so. Why? because there was a similar revolutionary process in Guadeloupe, but which ended up being drowned by sheer firepower. Had the british not blockaded the island coastline, Napoleon would have simply send wave after wave after wave of soldiers from the Grande Armee, and if you study Napoleon's campaigns, you would reach the conclusion that the guy didn't have any qualms in spending french blood in order to achieve his ends. Heck, his campaign in Russia is a mighty proof that, if something, the guy was not parsimonious at all at the time of spending the life of his troops.

still have several recipes of that wondeful powder.
Thirdly, after defeating the Brits, England knew that it was next on Napoleon war of conquest, therefore its secured an alliance with those ferocious marroon fighters, because the English Crown kwew that there was no army in the americas that could defeat us in those times. And about sheer number, we were not that numerous because at any given time, our indigenous army has never exceed more than 50 000 men. As a matter of fact, the one that beat Rochambeau at Vertières was manned by 25 000 men, and the one who conquered your country was only 22 000 strong.
No my friend, what defeated the French, the Spanish and the British was sheer hatred for the white man for all he has done to us during slavery time. For when the maroon were rushing forward, their battle cry was " Onward grenadiers! We don't count the ones who falls", and believe me after the battle there were never many surviving units from the other side

And, as a femme de couleur of that time said, there were simply more white people in France than trees in the island of Hahiti, as in, 15,000,000 adult white males to recruit in the levees en masse of that time opposed to the only 250,000 of people able to carry arms existing by then in Saint Domingue. It would have ended being just another guadeloupean slaughter in my humble opinion. Sheer numbers don't count on this era of weapons of mass destruction, but in the napoleonic one of the levees en masse, believe me, they made all the difference, specially considering the fact that numbers would be the factor that allowed the French Revolution to survive all the coalitions arrayed against her for so long.

C'mon Lautaro my friend,

You can do better than that in geography, Guadeloupe is a tiny island. Napoleon did not even need two brigades to quell the revolt over there. You're talking now about Haiti which is one of the most difficult terrain for an invading army. We did not beat the French in Europeen style battle where the two army are laid one in front of each other like in a parade.
No my friend, our generals knew where to wait for you and to destroy you. Besides, we had the best gunner in the world a certain mulatto name Alexander Petion and who was our very first President. When he set his pieces, and started firing, the attacking army was dead meat.
No, my friend Napoleon would have been beaten one way or the other.
There was times I wondered whether or not we would have won without the Brits help, but when I took a good look at it, I realized that no power in the whole world could have defeated us.

If that were so, then how come Petion and Boyer ended up submitting to pay that humilliating "independence debt" instead of taking the honorable path of sustaining their independence by the sword, as Christophe wished? One would think that they were sufficiently confident in their success, but perhaps they saw something that we are failing to see, or perhaps they saw that the UK and France would not be enemies again after 1815, and that they would not count with the british aid again, specially when the latter discovered the folly of giving support to a republic that ran counter with their slavery system in Jamaica.

I don't think you understand the geopolitical situation in Europe and in the Americas in those times my friend Lautaro, because if you do, you wouldn't waste your time in sheer speculative thoughts. If your assessment is right then why Great Britain has lost its colonies. You may tell me that they colonist had been helped by France, but how many foot soldiers can a power move and sustain at any given time far away from home.
If it was easy for Napoleon to invade his neighbours with an army of 200 000 men and more, however, sending the same amout of soldiers and logistic oversea would have drained France treseaury in a nano. Which sends us to the fact that it is not the number of manpower you have, it is the logistics that counts, for if you can't supply your army and assure its lines of communication with the motherland, it is a dead meat army. In the event of a war my friend, I really wouldn't trust you as commander in chief of the Dominican army, because you would have

Are you forgetting that he had already conquered the United Provinces of the Netherlands, a commonwealth that had a fleet as large as the one of the british empire? Tsk, tsk, common oupala, you're talking with a pro here. If you thought that princes cared for the logistics of any given enterprise, then half the wars of the modern era wouldn't have happened, cuz, do you think that Phillip II of Spain and his descendants cared about logistics on their 80 year war to subjugate the United Provinces of the Netherlands (which Spain ended up losing, by the way), or that Louis XIV gave any thought about expenditure in any of his four big wars to conquer Europe?

been impressed by the enemy zize and number. Do know that in a guerilla war, it is not technology and firepower that count, but resilience and determination that will decide which side victory will choose. Haven't the French learned it in Haiti, and the Greeks, the British, the Soviet and now the Americans in Afghanistan.
So, the bottom line is if you have the right land configuration for guerilla warfare (mountains and deep forest) and the stamina and determination, no army will be able to conquer you period.

You are the one that fail to understand one iota about how european politics functioned before and during the era of the French Revolution. Annointed heads, believing in the divine right of kings, and even the revolutionary jacobins that sought to succeed them, didn't care at all about things like expenditure like we do today. For them, a religion (or an ideal, in the case of the jacobins) was reason enough to carry out sacrifices the most sublime, and commit crimes the most bestial (as the devastation of the german palatinate by the french monarchy and the netherland massacre of the spanish one showed). It was a zero sum game, and anything else in the way was petty detail by comparison. If you saw the correspondence of the Duke of Parma, berating his spanish master about the logistic nightmare in which he was swamped, you'll be taken aback about the utter disregard that princes had about the details of any given operation. Heck, Leclerc's letters to Napoleon are proof enough of this.

antonito "Thanks prof Lautaro for bringing some senses here. Micaela and Oupala when a debate reach to a point where insult are being traded you both need to cool down and reconsider your approach."


Antonito :roll: KNOW IT ALL :roll: if you try to see and pay more attention thru Michaela’s word. Then you will grasp and understand that he/she doesn't need to insult anybody to get his/her point across in a clean to the face SLAP. :) Few people I had seen on the internet with that kind of debate skill. Simply remarkable.

You still don't understand my friend. How far are the Netherlands from France? Do you know why the Americans have built an huge fleet of supercarriers, and flanked them with a tremendous amount of aegis cruisers, if you don't guess it, let me tell you it is for being able to reach in short notice every corner of the world. And in spite of all their tremendous amount of logistics, they needed a lot of help right now in order to move their troops around the world.
No my friend, the French invasion of Haiti started with 22 000 men and in spite of the British blockade, Napoleon has managed to smuggle 98 000 more troops to reinforce Leclerc. As I said, our Bokò had taken care of them. We poisoned them like rat and they thought they were suffering from yellow fever. When they found out that it was our knowledge of natural poison that was decimated them, they decided to kill all the negroes. You may not be familiar with that fact of our independence struggle.

Opala I wish I could forget about your people, the problem is that as soon as I step out of my home, I find them all over the place. Yes they may be the most resilient ones in the world, but they are also the largest single immigrant population from one country in another, mine. I, as most Dominicans may have Haitian blood in my family tree, but that doesn’t change anything, still I am Dominican. And sorry to inform you, but your hind is way to old to matter today, I wish the American would spent the same amount of millions to supply your people with food, medications and means to overcome they present situation, that money would be meaningful today. I repeat myself, I don’t hate Haitians and I wish them the best, in Haiti of course, but there are way to many in my country and that is unacceptable, even if I hurt your feelings and you become angry.

Opala I wish I could forget about your people, the problem is that as soon as I step out of my home, I find them all over the place. Yes they may be the most resilient ones in the world, but they are also the largest single immigrant population from one country in another, mine. I, as most Dominicans may have Haitian blood in my family tree, but that doesn’t change anything, still I am Dominican. And sorry to inform you, but your hind is way to old to matter today, I wish the American would spent the same amount of millions to supply your people with food, medications and means to overcome they present situation, that money would be meaningful today. I repeat myself, I don’t hate Haitians and I wish them the best, in Haiti of course, but there are way to many in my country and that is unacceptable, even if I hurt your feelings and you become angry.

In 1920 Haitians allow themselves to be counted and they were only 28,258, about 3% of our population, which anywhere is a sensible number, even coming from a single country. In the last 89 years things had changed dramatically. Even if they were only one million, number that everybody understands why would be given by an inept government officer, 11% is way too big, but if the number is closer to 2 million, 20% of our present population is not simply dangerous, but absolutely unacceptable.

I think I am going to get off the bus here my friend Lautaro, because I don't think we make sense to each other. So hasta la vista amigo y buenas tardes, I don't know if my spanish is good enough.:-)

Antonio I realize that I should be as slow as some people said. Could you please point to me the insults I have trade here, not with Opala, but anybody? I may be on Haitians case, but insulting anybody, even the ones that insult me, is not may way

How far the Netherlands are from France? Are you kidding me? Where do you think that Napoleon got the fleet that carried the troops to Saint Domingue, genius? He knew that the french ports alone would not give him enough troop carriers to carry out the scheme, so he ordered the the burghers of Holland, Zeeland, Utrecht, Overijssel, Guelderland, the cities of Antwerp and Ostend, and even his spanish allies, to supply part of the fleet that would carry the expedition. Let's just say that, since the XVIIth century, France have been an annoying neighbour, to put it mildly, despite the natural defenses that they have to check them. Yes, I'm familiar with Toussaint's order of burning and poisoning the soil whenever a city could not be sustained, but even he knew that he could not keep his highway bandit way of making war forever, specially if the french kept bribing his troops as successfully as they did at first, and if the peace between the two chief Caribbean powers kept itself.

Let me ask you a question Micaela, would you be that disturbed if the Haitians were whites with blond hair and blue eyes? just answer by yes or no without any side comment, just a simple yes or no.

Lautauro just to re-iterate history is bias depending on which side it's being told, I will ad pure luck is very significant of many outcome, however at end of day is the result that is important, that is what mold us to be what we are an island share by two people.

Thanks Vacanos, I aprreciate it and I am a she.

And I concur with that, antonioj, although many religious pedants like to keep saying that the end of the journey is not what counts, but the journey itself, for its own sake.

Vacanos, I need no lecture from you my friend, I have been reading carefully both of them. I made that even handed comment when the debate was obviously off track, however let me extend to you the opportunity to recant your idiotic comment above,nevertheless I appreciate that your limited understanding of what you read and your total bias can be a factor, rest assure I understand and I mean you no harm.

error

Now you did it Antonioj, he will start to Rank you down (-) along with his cohorts of Neanderthals!

Because what they can't debate they want to suppress like good little fascists!

Josean please take your raggedy cut and paste rubbish to another thread .....you are a mere lightweight ....when a tsunami of knowledge comes along you start barking fascist etc .....the dogs bark the caravan moves on

Yes, oupala, yes.

"knowledge"

You couldn’t absorb knowledge even if it was fed to you intravenously!

"Written by: Micaela, 20 Oct 2009 6:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio I realize that I should be as slow as some people said. Could you please point to me the insults I have trade here, not with Opala, but anybody? I may be on Haitians case, but insulting anybody, even the ones that insult me, is not may way
"
Micaela, you are being disingenuous I am afraid a single word is not warranted, however you should understanding the tone and the context of your arguments was mutually hostile, Oupala have gracefully acknowledge it and aplogize, in any event if you feel otherwise all power to you. That is my point of view I have been wrong before.

"Written by: Lautaro, 20 Oct 2009 7:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
And I concur with that, antonioj, although many religious pedants like to keep saying that the end of the journey is not what counts, but the journey itself, for its own sake
"
Beautifully said Mr Lautauro the journey and the end result are mutually inter-dependent.

Micaela,

Before I believe your resounding YES! I'd have you pass a polygraph test :-)

oupala said: "hasta la vista amigo y buenas tardes, I don't know if my spanish is good enough.:-)"

It's excellent, mon ami, you're as sharp as they come. ;-)

oupala07, I do not always agree with you, but that is normal in any political discourse. However, one advise to you and listen carefully.

i spent weeks battling micaela and she just do not get it, she simply repeats herself, saying the same old thing time after time. At the end, I was forced to disengage, since there were better things to do with my time. Please stop answering, you have become her landing strip as i was in the past few weeks.

oupala07, do you know the story of the whale and the guppie? Ok, I will post it here just in case and excuse me if I though that you were not aware about the story: Goes like this, guppies giver birth to thousands of little guppies at a time (micaela), the problem is that they will almost entirely die, with a few survival. on the other hand the whale is pregnant I believe for 28 months (sorry did not look it up, so it might be off) and gives birth to a single strong and healthy defensable baby whale.

the moral of the story: is that,

there are people that are constantly writing everything that comes to their mind and are often all over the place, offering a huge volume of arguments and contra arguments with no substance whatsover, this is MICAELA. Then there are people that will develop an argument and stick with it while refining such argument, until it reaches viability and implementarity in a real world scenario, that will be you. You have been able to hone your argument, even if it is opposite to mine, but it is well defined and solidly backed with specifics outlets.

I take a whale any day, instead of taking a guppie.

Micaela, please do not go crazy posting 5-6 posts at once, since I simply have no time to read them.

micaela, has no debating skills, all she have is the ability to be one dimensional and not daring to adapt a peripheral view on issues at times. I do not call this debating, but street mouthing fights.

Lautaro I dont get spanished though i du understand what u said cause I know certain phrases sentences and words u just said goodbye nd good afternoon. I'm pretty sure im rite.

Sorry Guru, if I go crazy posting 5-6 posts at once, and you have no time to read them, please don't. I imagine, by the way you have try time and again with me, that the women of your family scuttle to do what you said, the first time you say it, but I am not one of them, and no matters if you insult me or try to disqualify me to force to submit to your will, I am not doing what you say. Do you think you get it this time?

I am the only one repeating myself. How many times you have forced us to read about your life, education, job and solution to the Haitian problem, without of course, let's know a viable method to implement your all genius solution? Remember, you are the educated, the knowledgeable, the brilliant, cognitively rich, shining mind of this forum, years light of the ignorant, uneducated, illogical, garbage talking rest, so great that can even can call nature work stupid, so please don't copy me, repeating yourself at nauseum all over the forum, you great whale!

I love it! Oupala had let's know of his visions of DR going under with the great depression effects, Dominicans being lock out of their natural resources and facilities, having to beg from the powers that be to help us, while explaining how Haiti will rise, outlast DR, United States, Spain and France and how he doesn't feel connected to either one of us socio economically and politically because we are too backward, but the knowledge guru finds that he has developed an argument and stick with it while refining his argument, until it reaches viability and implementarity, --although only him knows what that means-, in a real world scenario, well defined and solidly backed with specifics outlets. I am sure that being a guru, he contacts Oupala mind to mind so he could know his deepest feelings and thoughts.

Its me its me its me I am # 300

OH YEAH ! I'm going for the big # 500 myself.

WOW, Mica, you just keep getting more and more personal. But since you brought my beloved wife into this, I have to admit that she wares the pants in my house, since she makes lot more than me. I am very happy man with a wife that is at the center of the economic status of my house, now that is a rare feat back home, I know mica.

I understand that you are reflecting our cultural values when it comes to how we see and value our women back home. The DR is in real new of the women suffrage movement, eventhough it took place here more than half a century ago.

I am no sexist, MICAELA, that you can rest assure of.

Dag are you or have you ever been a card carrying member of JGLF or one of its cells

Antonito "Vacanos, I need no lecture from you my friend, I have been reading carefully both of them. I made that even handed comment when the debate was obviously off track, however let me extend to you the opportunity to recant your idiotic comment above,nevertheless I appreciate that your limited understanding of what you read and your total bias can be a factor, rest assure I understand and I mean you no harm."

Antonito KNOW IT ALL:roll: IF you don't want me to lecture on you then start making some sense into your small world inside your brain BRODA. I hope you don't find my word "insulting" :) but as a pep talk from vacanos here so you can get some sense into reality. Show me where Micaela insulted your compatriot. What I can see here amigo is that you felt bad for your compi being taken to a night school by Micaela and you inserted yourself to stop the slaughter.

blu "Dag are you or have you ever been a card carrying member of JGLF or one of its cells"


HAHAHAHA hillarious

If you think so, it might be true, vacanos, LOL. No just joking :)

And MICAELA, since my experimentation has worked, I am now officially taking back all the understimation and dehumanization that I have used with you, mirabueno, pepe32 and JR. You see, the same way you guys felt about me being an arrogan SOB, the same way other people look at you guys when you come on here and dehumanize the HAITIAN PEOPLE.

It is true, they harm our country, have a lesser educational, politcal, economical, health, social, family structural system when compred to ours. However, at the end of the day, HUMAN TO HUMAN, WE ARE NOT BETTER AND THEY NOT BETTER.

everyone is accused of dehumanizing the haitian people daga? are you a worker for the n.a.a.c.p???? where the heck do you get this delusion from? nobody on here has done anything or said anything for you to come off with these opinions. i have a counciling session for you if you would like to join i would be more than happy to have you.

Mirabueno, no, I do not work for the NAACP, since I am not African-American. Moreover, you should know that they will not even extend their services to me. However, I would love to be part of a NAAHP one day.

Mirabueno, I though that you actually completed the 4th grade, since they teach that at that level. Oh, well now you know it, so spread it among your circle of friends.

there are openings in the JGLF check with them

"Mirabueno, no, I do not work for the NAACP, since I am not African-American".

what? haitian americans don't count?

"Mirabueno, I though that you actually completed the 4th grade, since they teach that at that level. Oh, well now you know it, so spread it among your circle of friends."

omg that is a tuti daga of a thing for you to say!

What?? no even in your home you can tell somebody what to do. Now I understand; If you can’t open your mouth there, you are having a ball trying with me to order someone around. Wrong choice Guru. As you are the only one who cares and feels smart and important while you repeat how ignorant and uneducated we are, while you are brilliant, educated and have a job, please don’t take anything back, just be happy and repeat it 10,000 more times or until even Josean feels sick. If describing Haiti situation and the hunger, poverty, lack of health care, basic services, or the effect of them in DR is dehumanize the HAITIAN PEOPLE, we are guilty, but put your money where your mouth is and show where we said that we are better human than they.

Vacanos to the contrary without taking side there are some strong debator on both side. The only thing that earn my respect is a great debator armed with alot of intellect , wisdom and knowledge regardless on which side of the island. I pity the fools, the uneducated, the bigots and the arrogant. I can tell you Oupala or Micaela in my estimate have not met that threshold in my book yet. however they both have a great future.

With regard to me interfering to save my compa au contraire, you are wrong neither Oupala or Micaela need me, they are very articulate and certainly can slug it at will, if they wish to do so.

I am the opinion that the objective of the discourse was off track, because the posting in part were begining to be clearly hostile, insulting, or trashing one country over the other ect... let hope this is not so hard for you to acknowledge.