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A column of smoke reveals the presence of a furnace to make charcoal near La Descubierta. Photo: caribbeanfreeflying.com
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JIMANÍ, Dominican Republic.-  Four Haitians who were chopping down trees were shot dead Wednesday night in a remote area of southwest Independencia province, by Dominicans who surprised them making charcoal in several furnaces, said the Prosecutor Ruddy Perez.

He said the incident occurred around 9 a.m. between the villages Boca de Cachón and Los Pinos del Edén, near community La Descubierta, where witnesses saw 18 Haitians cutting numerous which trees were then piled on several furnaces to make charcoal to haul back to their country, when they were surprised by unidentified Dominicans and believed to be Park Rangers.

The official said witnesses also saw when the Dominicans fired on the 18 Haitians, killing four, as the others fled, among them a youngster who despite being injured managed to reach Jimaní and inform the authorities. The wounded Haitian, taken to the public hospital here, had told Perez that his four dead compatriots had been burned in the furnaces.

Border Security (Cesfront) agents participate in the investigation assisted by Army and Police officials, while the coroner went to the scene of the killings, a sparsely populated area used mostly for farming and to raise cattle. Its high altitudes provide a temperate climate where some Haitian families work the land and raise animals.

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COMMENTS
173 comment(s)
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 3:13 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
Did someone grow some balls?
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 3:16 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
If they are smart and learned their lesson I hope they won't continue to kill our ecosystem. Our fronteras resemble the land of Haiti with the dessert land spot from Haitians making charcoal. They can no longer do it in their country since there is no tree. When is enough is enough?
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 3:18 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
agreed vacanos. just don't tell that to rican
Written by: Blutarsky This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 3:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
this is a truly unfortunate incident ....the use of deadly force was probably not called for I cannot imagine a circumstance where shooting unarmed people can be justified .....please consider the consequences before you all start acting like cheerleaders for the people who did this .....truly shameful and an incident that will create much unfavorable publicity for the DR no matter how many trees you think it will save
Written by: antonioj, 22 Oct 2009 3:31 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Haitians should learn to respect the environment and certainly vigilante justice ,death should never be contemplated in this case. Well said fred, hard to justify killing of unharmed individuals, very sad and unfortunate.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 3:33 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
Oh oh.... this article will have 500 comments by friday morning.
Where is josean?
Dejen esos pobres haitianos quieto, they just wanna make a dessert out of D.R.
They just want some charcoal.
Written by: cibaeño75, 22 Oct 2009 3:38 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn
"this is a truly unfortunate incident ....the use of deadly force was probably not called for I cannot imagine a circumstance where shooting unarmed people can be justified .....please consider the consequences before you all start acting like cheerleaders for the people who did this .....truly shameful and an incident that will create much unfavorable publicity for the DR no matter how many trees you think it will save"

I agree 100%
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 3:41 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
blutar,
In DR we all know that if a cop tells you to stop you better. I bet these people started to run. Cops in DR shoot first and ask questions later. Its sad but true
Written by: telemeco, 22 Oct 2009 3:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
kill the few for the need of many,,,,i total agree with the killing
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 3:43 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
rubber bullets and tasers should be used to enforce the tree cutting law. Not real bullets
Written by: cibaeño75, 22 Oct 2009 3:46 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn
You know, I'd like to see how some of you would react if your families were starving, if there were no viable alternatives to feed them via the formal economy. I'd really like to see to what extant some of you who feel these killings are justified would be willing to go to kill your family's hunger. Granted, what the Haitians were doing was an eco-crime but to exact their life for said crime is beyond severe. That is not justice. That is an abuse and an affront to human life. Disgusting.
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 3:49 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
the tree cutting can kill hundreds of Dominicans that can die from flash floods due to the missing forests. The tree cutters might not kill Dominicans today but when the flash flood hits the local town it will be deadly

Who will they blame for the Dominican deaths??? The flash flood and not the tree cutters.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 3:49 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
can we all just get along?
when are these people going to learn that we are a soveriegn country?
I understand that this is a very sad situation but, this is going to happen if they continue with this
type of action.
I guess this is how is gonna have to be done, because ignorance does not speak the language of words.
Written by: generoso, 22 Oct 2009 3:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
Can not agree with vigilante justice, and killing human beings that although illegally trespassing, and being the worst predators cutting down the "trees of all life", do not deserve to be shot and killed.
The drastic remedy will undoubtedly bring more repercussions and possibly revenge.
Let us stop the violence before it progressively gets worse, my warnings and prophecies of a few months ago, of increases in violence are sadly becoming reality, and this is only the beginning.
The Haitians are desperate and have nothing to lose, and the Dominicans can't take it anymore, so you mix the two and you will get an explosive situation, with tragic results for both sides.
Written by: josean, 22 Oct 2009 3:52 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Written by: Blutarsky, 22 Oct 2009 3:28 PM
From: United States, Faber College on Double Secret Probation
this is a truly unfortunate incident ....the use of deadly force was probably not called for I cannot imagine a circumstance where shooting unarmed people can be justified .....please consider the consequences before you all start acting like cheerleaders for the people who did this .....truly shameful and an incident that will create much unfavorable publicity for the DR no matter how many trees you think it will save

I agree with you 1000%, THANK YOU!

Since when is a tree worth more than human beings life!

This act is BARBARIC, we Dominicans are better than that!!
Written by: Pepe32, 22 Oct 2009 3:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
QEPD, lamento la muerte de estas personas pero los culpables son aquellos que por debilidad permiten que la actual situación explosiva continué .

Le deportación HUMANITARIA evitaría estas tragedias pero nuestra clase gobernante no tiene las pelotas para hacer lo que hace falta y esta "leña" solo necesita un fósforo bien puesto para que estalle de manera imparable.Al gobierno se le va a ir de las manos y no van a ser cuatro sino decenas o millares que padecerán porque la debilidad solo trae la violencia.

Written by: Pepe32, 22 Oct 2009 3:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
A tree is not worth a human life ,but no human and least of all one who has no right to this land can go to his neighbors house and destroy at will .They should have been arrested and then deported ,sadly though Haitians will think twice before deforesting DR !
Written by: Pepe32, 22 Oct 2009 4:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
You know, I'd like to see how some of you would react if your families were starving, if there were no viable alternatives to feed them via the formal economy. I'd really like to see to what extant some of you who feel these killings are justified would be willing to go to kill your family's hunger. Granted, what the Haitians were doing was an eco-crime but to exact their life for said crime is beyond severe. That is not justice. That is an abuse and an affront to human life. Disgusting.

Very poignant Cibaeño but we (DR) cannot handle the brunt of Haiti´s problems because our own people are hanging by a thread and not everyone is going to sit by waiting for the politicians to do what is right and deport the Haitians and ensure the don´t come back otherwise in this time of economic upheaval unfortunate tragedies like this will only increase.
Written by: josean, 22 Oct 2009 4:05 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Pepito,

This may shock you but I agree with your bilingual comments. My only demand is that we do this in a humane way period!
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 4:07 PM
From: Canada
Even though I hate mob killing, I do approve the act: there must be a limit to tolerance. It is not because our government sits on its butt and cross its arms that those poor fools think they can give themselves the licence to go and destroy other people country.
Whenever they are killed for reasons like that, I won't cheer, however, I will understand. Their death are the entire Haitian government responsibility and their blood should fall on those incompetent and rotten domestic rats we call politicians back home.
I only do hope you the Dominicans do not give us any incentives to retaliate and do the same to you, because I would.
Written by: dondankar, 22 Oct 2009 4:10 PM
From: United States
There isn't in any ways, any type of Justification for Killing. Dominican Republic has laws that protect the Environment, and believe it or not they are enforced: However, taking a human life for it just makes it as criminal as if you killed anyone else under different circunstances. Violence onyy genrates Violence, if this is the kind of treatment you expect, then go on Dominicans, let's see how far can we get.

PS

We don't get shot in USA for inapropiate dispossal of garbage, Do we?
Written by: Pepe32, 22 Oct 2009 4:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
come to think of it imagine if these fools had started a fire and burned hundreds of acres and those fires killed people ,these 4 were criminals though killing them only makes them martyrs in the eyes of some.
Written by: Pepe32, 22 Oct 2009 4:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
This may shock you but I agree with your bilingual comments. My only demand is that we do this in a humane way period!

I believe in humane but not everyone is a pacifist and Dominicans feel threatened in their own space ,with a do nothing government so Haitians unfortunately are the most accessible problem they can "change" .The reality on the ground is ugly and only swift and resolute action on the part of the government can forestall this type of violence.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 4:37 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
Oupala I can believe you are saying this, I mean I am a dominican nacionalist
and I don't agree with killing haitians, we have laws and they should be implemented, but not
killing.
I understand you want your people to respect our sovereignty, but this is not the way.
(le petit garcon vous revez)lol.
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 4:38 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
pepe,
you are correct. they could have started a fire that could have been out of control
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 4:55 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
yo taba eperando la camiona pa clusa pelo me lipararon eso maldita dominicana.
Written by: telemeco, 22 Oct 2009 5:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
Wow Ocupala you are saying what
there is HOPE,, killing is not alway the solution but i state the to save the life of millions the killing of a few is a giving, like XWill7 say when there are no tree and the rain wash the dirt and kill thousand of million them Cibaeno will problably blame this on God not been humane.

you need to be proactive, and safeguard what you have now, cause tomorrow you allow one to cut a tree and tomorrow will have million cutting more tree, what you think it would have happen when these haitian will have show up in they hometowm with charcoal they got easily in the DR, they neighbord will come across the border too and cut more tree, now they will think it about twice before crossing the border to cut tree again. it would have been a domino effect,,, DESERT in just week
we need to start putting sign in creole, you cut a tree and we caught you, you are DEAD

Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 5:12 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
jossie "Since when is a tree worth more than human beings life!"


Read the history of your adopted country. Why do you Jossie "all of the sudden" we DR have the riches eco-system in the entire caribbean.
Written by: Incognito, 22 Oct 2009 5:18 PM
From: Canada, Montreal
Well In this case, I made my mea culpa; I dont agree on death/injured jailed could had been better but... cutting trees should no be accepted in DR OR HAITI
Written by: StanEarl, 22 Oct 2009 5:18 PM
From: United States
A tree is not worth a human life ,but no human and least of all one who has no right to this land can go to his neighbors house and destroy at will .They should have been arrested and then deported ,sadly though Haitians will think twice before deforesting DR !

Wow your true human side came out, proud of you Brother

It's been said over and over, the Haitian gv doen't have the capabiliy and man power to control the border. we need the D. gov to start implementing some thougher laws regarding the crossing. As much as i hate to read about these tragic stories, if something is not done sooner may GOD Protect the nations. The ball is in the hand of the Domincan gov to protect the it's border. like oupala said build a concret wall or electronc wall something or this will come down to a cvil war between the people leaving on the border which I am sure we don't want. Do any the gv officials look at these forum?
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 5:18 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Telemeco you are right on the money.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:19 PM
From: Canada
msjersey,

I don't like hypocrits and I think you are quite happy in the bottom of your heart. In fact, my comments really means, if you have read the way I finish it, that I would have done the same to Dominicans if the situation was reversed.
You can run but can't hide.

Besides, I have serious doubt about what really happened. Are you going to tell me that your people have taken their time to watch the Haitians cutting the trees, then pile them up and fill the furnaces before intervening. And then, it when the furnaces start burning hot, they decided to go after those idiots.
Another incositency : "Four Haitians who were chopping down trees were shot dead Wednesday night "

"He said (Ruddy Perez) the incident occurred around 9 a.m."

If it is still night at 9 a.m in the Dominican Republic at this time of the year, it means you must be located in the near the arctic circle.

Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:22 PM
From: Canada
Well, I will take the story as it is without crying foul, because those fools had no business crossing in enemy territory and perform work they forcefully knew what kind of result the could have in the event of being caught. And if they could have the opportunity to answer tit for tat, it would be a big sight of relief for my unvented anger.
So don't you try to lecture me because you have no lesson of civism and morality to give me.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:23 PM
From: Canada
ateo1992,

The animal is you because you are the only one barking like a dog
Written by: dagtan, 22 Oct 2009 5:29 PM
From: United States, New York City
I hope that the government shift its military to this area to prevent cases such as this. These people should have been detained and handed in to the police. Vigilantes justice not only gives a black eye to the Dominican people, but it also undermines the rule of law. We can not allow for people to do as they think is best in the name of all of us and the country.

Msjersey, how would you feel if the camiona will come through jersey city and pick up all the illegal dominicans and the U.S. will get rid of them without due process. The way that we demand respect, it must be given.

Something must done soon and very soon, these are the signs that people are losing their faith in a resolution.
Written by: StanEarl, 22 Oct 2009 5:30 PM
From: United States
Pepe come to think of it imagine if these fools had started a fire and burned hundreds of acres and those fires killed people ,these 4 were criminals though killing them only makes them martyrs in the eyes of some.
pepe let's not create a situation that didn't happen. I am totally against tree cutting 100% regardless of the country, but I am sure your law doesn't say to kill (Haitian or Dominican) they see cutting trees, right?

But remember if you cut 1, you can plant 10..Shut down the border
Written by: StanEarl, 22 Oct 2009 5:33 PM
From: United States
Ateo please don't turn this into something uglier, everyone is being respectful right now show some respect dude.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 5:34 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
petit garcon, now we are enemy territory? we feed and care for about 1/2 of haitians, and you are saying enemy territory. we are not at war we haiti, that country don't even have an army or an air force or coast guard.
i repeat petit garcon i don't approve the killing we are all children of god.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 5:38 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
petit garcon, i don't run because i have bad knees, and i can't hide cause im 6" tall.
let your light shine. we are children of god.
Written by: xwill7, 22 Oct 2009 5:40 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
why do the haitian people do not like to use propane for cooking? Its cheap and cleaner
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:42 PM
From: Canada
Telemeco,

I might accept the mob killing, but throwing their bodies into the furnaces is pure barbarism, but never mind we Haitians are not afraid to sustain heavy casualties whatever it is on the battlefield or in civilian life, we are used to it.

However, the reason why, in spite of my steaming anger, I will turn my head away and clench my teeth, is because the Haitian peasant has become so lawless for the last 48 years, that he doesn't respect even himself. Therefore, he can't be convinced by persuasion, but by brute force. Why do you think the actual authorities in my country dare not enforcing any law in order to force them not to destroy the country and our cities : they would uprise and hack them to death.
And what is even sadder, is all this is happening because no government mulatto or negro has never judge useful to educate them all, the same Fidel Castro has done for the Cuban People.
It won't be amazing if you keep catching more of them doing the same thing.
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 5:42 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
when enough is enough? Had some of you look our fronteras from a satelite? Bet not

Is our people suppose to bend over everytime they catch a Haitian killing our eco?

Yes turn them over to the police. Then when they are put free they can go back to do what they do best. And the circle had been on forever. And every day more Haitians come together in this big business for them.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:44 PM
From: Canada
I am far from being your little boy, if you want name calling I can go at it with you until the kick me outta your web site.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:50 PM
From: Canada
vacanos,

Then tell your government to do like every responsible one in the world by manning the border with one brigade or two and to tell them not to sit on their butt, but to patrol it and catch any illegal son of a bitch, send him/her to deportation camp and deport him/her back to Haiti without forgetting to charge the Haitian government for their transportation or they will rot in those camps.
Be serious about solving the problem instead of hypocritly mourning for those idiots and secretly rejoycing inside. I am nobody's fool.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:53 PM
From: Canada
However, for economic reason reason you know that your government doesn't give a damn for the border area, and that it will keep turning its head while our countrymen are steadily invading a land which risks to be their grave at any given moment in time.
The two government from both sides of the border is responsible for what's happening.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 5:53 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
petit garcon is not calling names, if I say "haitiano grajoso" that's calling names. By the way, what is your objetive in this forum? 98% of the comments have condemned the killing if in fact the occured.
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 5:54 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
garcon, don't let your anger gt to your head.
Written by: Juango, 22 Oct 2009 5:58 PM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
It is amazing what poeple will do in the name of justice. Killing of unarmed people is never justified. My question is, where is all this "carbon" being sold? In the DR or Haiti? In the past I saw many Daihatsu trucks loaded with CARBON, traveling north on the San Cristobal-Azua-Barahona Hwy. Are the "killers" now able to steal this charcol in order to sell it themselves? These problems will continue and will escalate if the border is not controlled better. Desperate people (Dominicans & Haitians) do desperate things. Don't let this incident escalate.....!!
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 5:59 PM
From: Canada
I don't give a rat wether or not 100% of you has condamned the killing : oupala never runs with the herd. I don't need role model because where I come from we don't follow, we lead.

And you aren't that smart!
Written by: msjersey, 22 Oct 2009 6:02 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
what do you lead? petit garcon do whatever master says.
if you are a leader your country is needing you.
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 6:03 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Oupala
that is why I will never stop talking my mouth about Balaguer. He understood better than anybody probably with the exception of Trujillo our Haitian's problem. He believed the Haitians were one of our most imminent threats to our society. And he was dead on the money on that one too. During his term in office a border soldier was there as a punishment. Nowadays to get there the soldier need to pay top money for that coveted spot. We just need someone like Balaguer to start breaking some neck in our govt. When our government try to deport a few Haitian back to their country all hell break loose with Haitian, pro-Haitian, traitor, Human right, NGO, evil Jesuit and then the government go under the bed all scare "I won't do it again" During Balaguer they all took the back seat.
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 6:04 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Oupala "However, for economic reason reason you know that your government doesn't give a damn for the border area"

Try this one first Haitian, pro-Haitian, traitor, Human right, NGO, evil Jesuit, pacifist, internationalist, lefties, ect
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 6:07 PM
From: Canada
Juango,

To say the truth, if I was an investigation officer, I'd start making arrest and question the witnesses because there are quite a bit of things that are fishy in this story. But I am not going to get into them, because what is important to me is for those poor idiots to stop invading a land where they are tolerated but not welcome.
You want a better life then stop destroying your country and do like in the old time : plow your land harvest it and sell the products at the market. I don't accept any excuse from the Haitian peasant, he knows very well that if his country is being desertified, it is his entire fault, because no one tells him to be so greedy that he start clearing his forest just because there is no government to tell and force him not to do it.
I am angry at them, at those morons who burnt their corpes, and at the two governments from both sides of the border.

Well, I think I am going to log off because I feel like killing someone.
Hasta luego
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 6:07 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
msjersey "what do you lead? petit garcon do whatever master says.
if you are a leader your country is needing you."


hahaha
Written by: vacanos, 22 Oct 2009 6:10 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Oupala "Well, I think I am going to log off because I feel like killing someone.
Hasta luego"



Yes please go get your 15 minute smoke break
Written by: dagtan, 22 Oct 2009 6:23 PM
From: United States, New York City
What is currently happening on this particular contribution of opinions is exactly the reason why this problem will never be resolved. Why can you guys and girls simply state your point without resorting to the personal attacks. It is very easy to simply attack each other and look like a bunch of savages. There are other groups that frequent this page and they will make judgment on what is going on among our discussions.

I am pretty sure that each and everyone here is more than capable of staying away from the personal attacks and repeating the same old jokes that only reopen the wounds that both side have struggle to close for more than a century now.

At the end of the bloodbath who is the winner? nobody wins, people. I do not believe that it is fair for Dominicans to be tagged as haitian haters, since not all Dominicans feel the same way some make to see on here. Also, why are we so fearful of such a backward people? I really do not get this, it is like there is a need,
Written by: StanEarl, 22 Oct 2009 6:24 PM
From: United States
Xwill propane is extremely expensive in Haiti it cost about 150 Gourdes for a small tank that can't even last a day 350 for a medium size, on average last time I was in Haiti i spent about $100 for less than a week when Choarcoal is 80 Gourdes ($10) for a bag. It doesn't make since but that's what some haitians have to deal with.
Written by: dagtan, 22 Oct 2009 6:29 PM
From: United States, New York City
to keep them down at all cost. Does it make us feel better about ourselves? are we so self esteem deficient that we need to constantly marginalized these people? The last time I check we are actually too proud of who we are for own good.

Finally, if our culture is some much stronger when compared to the haitian's, then why not let them live among us and allow our culture to overtake theirs. The Chinese allowed the mogols, the romans allowed the gauls and iberians and others, the asyrians allowed the cretians and many other examples of groups of people who believed that due to their cultural superiority all new people will one day become who the host country is.

And as it is proven, it happened since the some of the greatest contributions to these great civilizations were made by foreign born people.

I am not saying that we should not do something about the problem, but if some of you feel so much more superior to the haitians, then, why fear them?
Written by: Belly, 22 Oct 2009 9:51 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
This should be a wake up call to both Dominican and Haitians. As for Dominican that have been seating in the side lines and not supporting those that have protedted the enviroment maybe now you see how the situation is getting worse so now just act and ask for our politicians to start doing their job and as for Haitians i personally feel bad about the deaths but instead of destroying whats left on this island why don't you all start building.
Written by: Belly, 22 Oct 2009 9:56 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan

Once again you have shown to be out of sync. If you follow the local news there are areas already in Haiti where everything but official street signs are writen in spanish and most Haitians there speak spanish and some can barely speak Creole in their own country so no to your surprise we don't feelsuperior and no we are scare either. If you look at present economic situation that prove we have taken better steps to move forward is not an illusion of superiority like you arrogant mind thinks.
Written by: dagtan, 22 Oct 2009 10:20 PM
From: United States, New York City
Belly, read the post again and then re-post. I never stated anything in absolute terms, instead in a series of hypothesis and I am sure you will note whole lots of if's in the post. Moreover, I was responding to some of the nasty comments that were posted and often turning personal, these tent to be more prominent on our side. So at the end of the day, if we already feel more culturally advanced and civilized than haitians, then there is no need for the animosity.

Read it again Belly and do not confuse knowledge with arrogance, it is a grave misconception.

Written by: CarlosFranco, 22 Oct 2009 10:25 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn

This is what happens when the laws are not enforced. Unfortunately i'll have to believe that it will continue to happen due to the lack of political will to enforce immigration laws...

No, a tree is not worth a human being, but the ecosystem is.... If left unchecked the whole island can become a desert and then how many millions will die of starvation ?

Written by: MIRABUENO This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 10:54 PM
From: United States
"while our countrymen are steadily invading a land"

oupala just hit it on the nail. INVADING KEY WORD!!!! i believe the dominican police had the right idea but at the same time their is no reason to kill people in such a situation. their are better means to enforce and killing is not one of them.
Written by: Belly, 22 Oct 2009 11:06 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan

For your info i did read you post and still hold my statement and to make it clearer no we are not scare of loosing anything and by far something as important as our culture. Remember this Dominican Culture survived in this island even when Haiti was the richest country and now why in the world makes you think we are running scare of loosing anything. This is not about culture or color is about protecting the motherland and if you havent notice that's why DR is not a desert because Dominican have always stood up to protect it. Even thouhg i don't agree that the killing was the best option yet unless the message gets across the cases like this will keep happening until the those causing the problem get the message remember this are not the only humans that have lost their lifes when Dominicans were protecting the land. Many Dominicans have died before in this cirtustances until most got the point across and stopped cutting down trees which is why we have done a better job
Written by: Belly, 22 Oct 2009 11:08 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan or Afrolatino

Remember sometimes war brings peace. I can guarantee you that those chopping trees will start to think twice after they get this news across them even thoug they were the wrong way of doing it they will work for the purpose and at the end both countries win if we all could just eliminate more of those of us destroying the island and raise the ones building then we will have peace otherwise we will protect our side of it.
Written by: MIRABUENO This user is banned, 22 Oct 2009 11:09 PM
From: United States
"Well, I think I am going to log off because I feel like killing someone"

that is worst than a racist dominican oupala because many of them do not even feel the way you do. you practice reverse racism and hope for the downfall of dominicans. you will be judged along with haitians that carry your beliefs you moran. you have covered a multitude of good deeds with all of your dominican bashing and hating along with envy. k triste to say the least.
Written by: dagtan, 22 Oct 2009 11:22 PM
From: United States, New York City
Belly, what does my opinion has to do with Afrolatino or Africanism? Can you show me the connection, I will provide a way out for you just in case, try to find any direct or indirect connection between my comments/positions and those of Afrolatino/Africanism.

I'll be waiting for the outcome.
Written by: time2rize, 22 Oct 2009 11:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Damm 69 comments . Well these is one Good way to keep Dominicans and Haitians busy and not realize who the real Enemies are.
Written by: Belly, 22 Oct 2009 11:44 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan

Afrolatino was another user here who got banned but you and him seen to be making the same kind of comments that we Dominicans some how are scare of Haitian. We have never been scare of Haitians and if you read the history of the island that will be very evident. Dominican culture has survived 100s of years what makes you think so how we are scare to loose it that is what you need to explain in plain english instead of the "none absolut hypothesis".
Written by: Enteri2, 23 Oct 2009 12:31 AM
From: United States
More Dominican savagery - what else is new?

If these were Dominicans slashing and burning the countryside I really wonder who would be complaining about "flooding" and the "eco system". You guys are truly kidding yourselves if you think these killings were all about protecting the environment. Gimme a break - this was murder plain and simple. Step one foot in the in the DR and you know that by in large protecting the environment is not a priority. Life is cheap in the DR and killing people is so common that rarely anyone blinks an eye when it happens.


Written by: BASTA, 23 Oct 2009 7:57 AM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all Never Confuse Education with Intelligence
Since when is a tree worth more than human beings life! == This world would be a better place without People!!! Oh my you are worse than a Dog. ThankYou- I do not steal,rob,kill etc and where ever I go in RD I see wood cutters every where by Dominicans.
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 8:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Enteri ,you are severely mistaken .The Dominican governments have been very strict with the environment to the point that Dominicans died for cutting trees down because Dominicans unfortunately don't understand in soft terms so some signs and jail do not stop us and Haitians are 100 fold more so.

Look up Candelier and what he used to do while in charge of the Forrest Dept.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 23 Oct 2009 9:16 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
They deserve the lynchings and anybody that talks about humanism and rights is totally wrong, through mankind History is being proved that countries or civilizations ruled with iron fists are more prone to develop that the ones with weak goverment policies.

If We repeat the lyinchings as long as They have to be productive the Haitians won't do it again but if We don't do anything They will continue destroying the enviroment without hesitation and respect for the Dominican Republic .
Written by: cibaeño75, 23 Oct 2009 9:28 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn
"Cibaeno will problably blame this on God not been humane."

If that were written in English maybe I'd be able to respond.
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 9:42 AM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
stan,
lowering the cost of propane to the price level of carbon is key. But someone will have to show the population how to handle propane. They need to learn the pros and cons. No smoking near the tanks
Written by: guillermone, 23 Oct 2009 9:47 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
dondanker-We don't get shot in US for inapropiate dispossal of garbage, Do we?

No, but illegal dumping is a crime in the US and although not persecuted, if caught, the offenders are severely penalized and prosecuted. Nevertheless, US does not have 2,000,000 people indiscriminately dispossing garbage all over the country and causing irreparable environmental damage. But believed me, if this would ever become reality, you will see vigilante groups killing on the spot any and all known or suspected garbage criminals.

I do not agree, support or justify killing someone for chopping down a tree, but I do understand the reaction and what transpired to cause it to reach the point of no return. But it should not be a surprise to anyone. Many posters for months predicted that the DR/Haiti conflict is a volcano about to erupt. If authorities on both sides of the border don't become proactive and find solutions, we will continue to see inevitable violence escalate to unprecedented levels.
Written by: lovingit, 23 Oct 2009 9:52 AM
From: United States, Delaware
No need to KILL. They should have done a citizens arrest. I hope the shooters get arrested and get the justice they deserve. For those of you cheering about this, WHATS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!? These are human beings, and although cutting the trees uncontrolled is wrong, these people just need to fulfill a life necessity. I don't agree with the tree cutting, but KILLING THEM is 1000X worse. We Dominicans are immigrants in many places in the world and we would not like if our people got shot because they are doing something to survive and for basic needs.

How would be like it if "United Statians" (aka Americans) were to shoot dead Dominicans trying to collect welfare?

P.S. I feel that the term "American" is incorrectly used by population of the US, and of course, because of it, now most of the world. Notice in other languages, like Spanish, French, Portuguese, each have their own version of "Estado Unidense"
Written by: JRRubirosa, 23 Oct 2009 10:37 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dominicans that did this actions are "Enviroment heroes", don't listen to the bullcrap Haitian media because the are a bunch of retrogads that won't be accountable the day We don't have trees left to protect us from lack of water or when We get hit by a storm.

Has any of the dumbass human rights people posting pro-haitians comments find out that only 2% of the water in the whole planet is potable and good for human consumption and without this
quality water We can't take care of the crops, do our daily chores, nurture our bodies, etc.

Let's continue with the the same medicine as long as Haitians don't comply, if They cut the trees
in Haiti We could care less but not in our soil please !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 23 Oct 2009 10:39 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Shooting people for collecting welfare and cutting trees is the most stupid comparison that an Haitian can make to support his brothers dumb actions on Dominican soil !
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 10:43 AM
From: United States, New York City
Belly, are you insinuating that I am in some way connected to this unknown person to me? I have been posting for many years and never saw this person on here.

Belly, one more thing, never assume or make a quick decision without asking. You might have just asked me in your response, instead of making your mind about me. A very amateur mistake indeed.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 11:29 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dagtan

First of all you haven't been posting here for "many years" is only been one year + for you. Second what makes you think i'm a amateur and an amateur at what? if may ask. If you read the comment i said you and him sound very much the same when posting always in hypothesis and clouds of word that may carry a different message. another thing if you haven't talked to Afrolatino that it self proves that you are not as active on this site and those others here because almost every body here have spoken with the guy.
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 11:33 AM
From: United States, New York City


"They deserve the lynchings and anybody that talks about humanism and rights is totally wrong, through mankind History is being proved that countries or civilizations ruled with iron fists are more prone to develop that the ones with weak goverment policies".

"If We repeat the lyinchings as long as They have to be productive the Haitians won't do it again but if We don't do anything They will continue destroying the enviroment without hesitation and respect for the Dominican Republic" .


JR, what should we do about the Dominican nationals when found doing the same?

Should we follow your advise on top or have a double standard?

And if we are going to nationalize a double standard, how do we justify it?

Ruby, now I want you to relax and use all your senses to answer these questions. Please get your heart out of the text and answer in an objective manner if possible, please.
Written by: lovingit, 23 Oct 2009 11:52 AM
From: United States, Delaware
Ruby

I historically have seen the good side to your leftist posts, and have probably agreed with you in many cases and applaud your patriotism, but the fact is, when something is wrong, is simply WRONG. These people were wrong to shoot these individuals, TO DEATH in that matter, and YOU, are WRONG for defending them my brother. I am glad, that as far as I know, savages like these running around the country, and with minds like yours are a minority, although, your words and actions are so loud, that people and the media may mistakenly see them as the majority.

Dios, Patria, Libertad, Moralidad, Etica
Republica Dominicana
Written by: JRRubirosa, 23 Oct 2009 11:53 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:

If Dominicans are found to be doing the same thing so burned them too !

Are you happy now?? I know that you are a Haitian but I don' t have double
standards for anything!

What is the difference between a Haitian and a Dominican? simple the Haitian because might
be black is the victim and the Dominican is the racist, xenophohic without any rights !
Written by: JEM237, 23 Oct 2009 12:06 PM
From: United States
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Written by: JEM237, 23 Oct 2009 12:06 PM
From: United States
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From: United States
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Written by: JEM237, 23 Oct 2009 12:08 PM
From: United States
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Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 12:43 PM
From: United States, New York City
JR, please refrain from nastiness, if you can not have a decent exchange, then do not get involved. I asked a series of questions and you gave me the answers, since when these questions dictate my ethnical makeup.

Moreover, I will be horrified to be judged base on a person so insane as you are. I once again repeat, JR's opinions do not represent the sentiment of the mainstream domincan population, he is an aboration to the rule. We own land in the camp david ranch area of SANTIAGO and if one day one of my family members is found chopping down a tree for what ever reason, I wnat them to be fined and not shot, maybe, that rule should apply to your family only. But mine, should be fined or even arrested, even if it is our property, which we paid hefty money for it.
Written by: antonioj, 23 Oct 2009 12:48 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Ruby and Vacanos you are both wrong.... this is what i call blind nationalist, Dominicans are not a tribe respect for human being should be upheld regardless, that goes beyond the traditional haitian immigration issue.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 1:57 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
antonito sabetodo "Ruby and Vacanos you are both wrong.... this is what i call blind nationalist, Dominicans are not a tribe respect for human being should be upheld regardless, that goes beyond the traditional haitian immigration issue.":


As you will say antonito when we give our back BEND OVER DOMINICANO
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 3:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I believe killing is wrong from the time of conception and this is no exception and the fact that their bodies were burned was a desecration!

Dagtan,I must say though that you are wrong in your perception and you are disconnected from Dominican reality when you say that the opinions of Rubirosa are on the fringes when in reality it is your point of view that is on the fringes of Dominican opinion simply because you do not feel in your heart what is occurring "on the ground" in DR and the general sentiment there.

Although I could never support the actions taken I can relate to the frustration being felt in DR and in DR as in any country even people who are normally peaceful can be driven to violence when frustration reaches a breaking point ,and this volcano is about to blow...

That's why I tell you that regardless of your view from the outside ,it is in everyone's best interest for the majority of Haitians to be repatriated peacefully otherwise they will end up leaving (or not
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 3:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
in the worst manner poisoning any chance for real relations for the next 100 years and putting a stain on DR ...in other words everyone would lose. Again though the reality is that Rubi's thoughts are closer to the mainstream than yours and the more time that goes by the positions will become more radicalized as you probably know.
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 3:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic
lovingit ,if you are real and not just a different expression of one of our existing posters as you seem,since when is Rubi a leftist poster??

Also in Dios Patria y Libertad we have all we need because morality and ethics are under God as is liberty in which God gives us free will .No hace falta cambiar los símbolos Patrios!
Written by: josean, 23 Oct 2009 3:40 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Pepito,

You either condemn it or you don't, you can be like a cow shitting on both sides of the road!

No level of frustration justifies the murder of a person for cutting a tree for, God’s sake! Arrest them make the pay or work off for restitution and deport them, but killing a person in such a BARBAIC way is crazy, and so is anyone who tries to rationalize it in any manner.

I thought I was the demonic atheists according to you and you the keeper of the faith.

I don’t care if Rubi’s backward thoughts represent 99% of public opinion, it is still wrong, period!
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:50 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Jossie cutting one tree only or many tree? which one Jossie
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 3:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Josean ,saying I oppose something or would never do it myself does not mean that I don't understand the frustration being felt ...I though you liked nuance yet when you please you want black and white.What happened to your rainbow flag?

Extreme reactions occur because of a lack of reaction from the government to the public clamor for a solution and I can be a hypocrite and say what you want ,but the root cause does not go away and unless a very sizable amount of Haitians are repatriated this will continue and probably get worse.

At this point the perpetrators should be punished ,but so should the ones who were cutting the trees and maybe they should put them all in the same jail so Josean you can can do like the ostrich and stick you head in the sand but understand nothing happens in a vacuum and this is a direct result of what I have been railing and warning against and I repeat ,it will only get worse unless drastic (legal and humanitarian) measures are taken!
Written by: josean, 23 Oct 2009 3:57 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
I believe you have to cut down a Trillion trees before you get the death penalty after being tried in front of a jury of you peers and convict!
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 4:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"I don’t care if Rubi’s backward thoughts represent 99% of public opinion, it is still wrong, period!"

Why do you respond for Dagtan ? He repeated his premise that these views are in the minority and I let him know the truth ...that it's actually his views that are in the minority and that was not a judgement ,just an observation because the worst thing you can do is evaluate with bad data .

The situation is far worse than either of you imagine and a couple of "yes we cans" don't work in the real world .
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:03 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Jossie "I believe you have to cut down a Trillion trees before you get the death penalty after being tried in front of a jury of you peers and convict!"


With Haitians like this jossie no wonder they have a dessert land. Very sad


indeed
Written by: josean, 23 Oct 2009 4:03 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"I though you liked nuance yet when you please you want black and white.What happened to your rainbow flag?"

That’s the point now you are the flip flopper!

Here we are in 100% agreement:

"but understand nothing happens in a vacuum and this is a direct result of what I have been railing and warning against and I repeat ,it will only get worse unless drastic (legal and humanitarian) measures are taken!"

That why the METRO was never a priority when the country has more pressing needs like this, that can lead to these potential catastrophes!
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 4:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Josean,I repeat I don't support death for any circumstance ,from conception to the last breath so vent your anger in another direction .
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 4:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Josean ,I am tired of arguments without end ,I will most likely never agree with all your positions but you are really nitpicking.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:09 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Jossie "I believe you have to cut down a Trillion trees before you get the death penalty after being tried in front of a jury of you peers and convict!"


Umbelievable no wonder they have no regard for their land.


Los Taino must be turning in their graves
Written by: josean, 23 Oct 2009 4:10 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
pepito,

Believe it or not I never get angry, so don't take it personal my prodigal son, the door will always be open and a candle will be lit, since we have no regular electrical service!
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 5:24 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
josean grab your machete
Written by: josean, 23 Oct 2009 5:26 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
I prefer my two associates, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson!
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:21 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
xwill

In case you don't know they name their machete after gun. :)
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 9:27 PM
From: United States, New York City
WOW, pretty pathetic that a perfectly well participated forum, once against turned into the name calling.

Really, what in the f@#k is wrong with you people, I see lots of people with very low self confidence here, who can not withstand heat.

Why the name calling, and not content, stick to your point, it is clear that here are people that want to be on both side of argument and not take a firm side on what is going own. Pepe32, I do believe that JR is not a representative of the mainstream dominican population, since I can prove this to you very simply.

You implied that some people make their claims on false or bad data, what is interesting is that even though I am here in the U.S. and you are over there, I am sure that my info is either as good or better than yours, and I am k's of miles away.

Do yourself a little data collecting fun tomorrow or what ever day of the week you want, well maybe skip the weekends since people are happier. Get them on the worse day to do pol
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 9:36 PM
From: United States, New York City
worse day to do polling is monday and the morning is much worse, that is the reason why not polling company ever conduct projects on mondays since the data will skewed toward the negative side of the question.

Ok, pepe32, this is are the questions you are going to ask 20 people on monday morning, this upcoming october 26, 2009.

1. Do you as a dominican want the haitians to leave our country? Y/N
2. Do you as dominican approve the use of violence to make the haitians go back to haiti?
3. Do you as dominican believe that violence against haitians is justifiable because they are here illegally?
4. Finally, do you as dominican approve of people in the border towns taking the law into their owns against the haitians if they are doing something to destroy your land?

pepe32, these questions are highly favorable in supporting your and JR's positions on how to deal with the haitians. Also, I am throwing in there the monday morning which the worse time of the week to get positive.
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 9:39 PM
From: United States, New York City
pepe32, please post the results if possible on either of our exchanges and then lets have a discussion. I hope that you are an honest person, therefore, I am taking your info at face value. Pepe32, if you are not able to run the poll, please post here as well and I will forward those questions to one of my uncles in SANTIAGO to run it for me.
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 9:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan,take a pill...you do not represent the majority view in DR and are obviousely detached .Now if you want take some more regular trips and talk to the people on the streets and ask unbiased questions and you will know that though some of Rubi´s statements are not the norm an overwhelming majority want most Haitians out of DR.

The fact that some are willing to use violence and others are not does not change the fact that most agree on the problem so while some would take a violent path that I don´t agree with others like you would literally put DR on all fours and let Haiti Fu*k us because you really don't care about DR and it shows .In none of your posts do you show the most minimal care for anything to do with DR yet you become very emotional with Haiti ,so take a chill pill and we will meet on the Artibonito.. (you coming from the west of course)

BTW ,I have been trying to be civil with you but it is obviously not reciprocal because only complete submission is accepted
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 9:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
by Lord Dagtan .May allah calm your nerves.
Written by: josean, 24 Oct 2009 3:25 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"put DR on all fours and let Haiti Fu*k us"

There goes that right wing obsession with rectal openings!
Written by: dagtan, 24 Oct 2009 3:34 PM
From: United States, New York City
pepe32, are you going to run the poll yes or no? please for God sake, can you for one take a stand on something. Just let me know and if not, then say so, if yes, then go out and run the poll, you are going to see that most dominicans do not agree with your or JR's nasty posts and neocons views. You are living there and are making prediction base on the conversations that take place at your dinner table, that is one tainted data, pepe32.

You are talking about civility, pepe32, it is getting pathetic, please take that back. The nastiest people on here against dominicans with a sense of morality and with the desire that things will one day be resolved peacefully, is you and JR. For you, a real dominican needs to have your radical views when it comes to the haitian issue, if you see my post on any other issues here they are some of the most constructive around, but on the haitian issue, you do not agree with me, so I am deemed traidor, antidominicano, hatiano tapao, and others,
Written by: dagtan, 24 Oct 2009 3:40 PM
From: United States, New York City
it is clear that your only passion around here is the haitian issue as far as me, its all of the issues, because they all matter.

The interesting thing about all this is, that i really do not know who got more to lose between you and me if things get really ugly over there. because you make it seem like we are going to lose our country and that the island will simply become a bigger haiti, pepe32, stop the nightmares, got take therapy, is not going to happen. I am confident that a solution will be found and that the government will get involved and create a comprehensive system in which people will be given their rightful treatment even if ti is during deportation.

The most important person in my life lives in the DR (my mom) i will kill anyone who try to do something to her, but at the end of the day I am not afraid of a haitian takeover, because it will never happen. i also, have most of my family in the DR, which are destined to lose everything if there is a haitian
Written by: dagtan, 24 Oct 2009 3:46 PM
From: United States, New York City
takeover, but i am not worried because is not going to happen, pepe32. Also, I was in the DR this past summer and made a huge land acquisition in the camp david ranch mountains, taking a good chunk of my nest egg investment, but i bought the land anyways, since i am not afraid of haitians or their migration, since i know that it will end and be controlled eventually. pepe32, maybe your house is in danger of being overrun by a haitian invasion, pinch yourself ever so often, maybe you will realize that you were actually dreaming.

your radicalism is not needed, since most of us do not think like you or like what you are saying. i may not live there or travel as often as you, but my family, including me have a heck of a lot to lose if something of the like of what you want would ever happen there. we do not want to go down your way pepe32, neither the dominican people. Therefore, i will ask you to stop talking for the dominican people and talk for yourself. They have mouths and,
Written by: dagtan, 24 Oct 2009 3:47 PM
From: United States, New York City
are naturally extroverted.

This issue will be resolved the way that it is to be resolved and that is peacefully with both sides cooperating to end the conflict. I want the DR to take the lead in creating a system of trust in order to have the haitians come to the table and get this thing done. I believe that even with the broken down government that we have this is very possible. We have asked the U.S. for assistance in the past, i would not mind if we do in order to solve this problem.

The U.S. or any latin american country can serve as the mediator for DR and Haiti at the negotiating table.
Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 10:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Written by: dagtan
"is not going to happen.. I am confident that a solution will be found and that the government will get involved and create a comprehensive system in which people will be given their rightful treatment even if ti is during deportation… The haitians migration will end and be controlled eventually… This issue will be resolved the way that it is to be resolved and that is peacefully with both sides cooperating to end the conflict… i will ask you to stop talking for the dominican people and talk for yourself. They have mouths and, are naturally extroverted. I believe that even with the broken down government that we have this is very possible"

Oh my God, does that deserve an answer?
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 25 Oct 2009 10:35 AM
From: Canada
Dagtan my friend,

You better save your intellect for people who are able to use their brain in a rational way. Keep talking with the ones that just come out of an asylum for mentally impaired and sooner or later you'll turn into one of them. How many intelligent words have you witnessed that came out from their deranged and confused mind? Why do you think I just give up on them?
Not all the dinosaurs have been extinct my friend, some are still living among us, and they still think it is the jurassic era.
So do yourself a favour: fill up your spare time by seeking the company of people instead of talking to animals, ooops! I apologize to the animals.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 7:43 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yflDh5x3to&feature=related#


For those Who respect "El jefe" legacy "que viva Trujillo"
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 7:44 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weFmRXJ3kOs&feature=related#


Trujillo was a patriot, Dominican and icon !

RIP Jefe !
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:48 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
And he also had Haitian blood Rubi, so which part of scum bag are you celebrating!
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 8:17 PM
From: United States, New York City
Almost half Haitian may I say.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:23 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean and Dagtan:

I'll take like a real man because I don't hide who I am and everybody knows who I am but your guys are like 2 cockroaches hidding underneath a rock feeling ashamed about your "TRUE"
nationality and to me that is not having personality or decorum.

I don't have double standards for anything and just have a single quality standard; this week Mr. Dagtan asked me about If any Dominican is found cutting trees and burning them and I told him that They can be "SHOOT" to death too like the haitians.

I have a book but your guys are infected with the haitian parasite behavior of being the #1 victim
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:44 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Rubi,

Here please call and get some help my brother, soon!

Pilgrim Psychiatric Center
www.omh.state.ny.us - (631) 761-3500
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 25 Oct 2009 9:50 PM
From: Canada
"I have a book but your guys are infected with the haitian parasite behavior of being the #1 victim"

Hear that? And when you call scums like these racist, they are ready to yell and scream like whipped dogs that you are trashing them with no reason. Keep throwing your stomach on your body.
Anyway, it is Leonel fault to have allowed early release of mentally handicapped like that. Well, I can understand the problem the President is confronting. With the economy going down the tube, it is much more economic to release the unfit, because they are more prone to get flatten by a truck or to get wacked by another deranged, therefore, saving the state a lot of unecessary expenses to care for their half dead brain.
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:55 PM
From: United States, New York City
Josean, LOL on the Psyc center. Maybe you and i can come and visit. i am about 2.5 hours from JR, i can take the drive. How about you Josean?
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:58 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
I will send him a box of chocolates, WHITE of course!
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 25 Oct 2009 10:01 PM
From: Canada
It's a pity I can't join you guys, I have sworn not to put my feet on your soil. But be careful and make sure that those mentally hill are well restrained to their bed, before paying them a compassionate visit.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 10:05 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
oupala07,

D is braver than I; I will send the chocolates UPS!
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 2:08 AM
From: Canada
Josean,

That's a good one. And I thought the French Canadians were world champ in humor. No, I think you guys are better, for I 've been laughing at your short jokes for quite a while. It's really a pity your people must nurse knuckleheads like some morons on this wonderful web site. Well! Ya know, nothing's perfect in this sinful world. There are even more morons in my country than yours, why do you think you have not only overtaken us, but also left us way back in the dust?
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 3:29 AM
From: Canada
Oh boy! I've just got news for you. They just discovered the largest oil reserve in the region in Haiti. Our oil reserve is larger than Venezuela's one. In total we have 20 sites discovered so far, and it is not a hoax. pay back time is nearer than I thought, because when we'll start exploiting those pools of oil, I don't know how the Dominican Republic will be able to keep our nationals on its soil. Maybe the trend will be reversed, and now it will be us, in a not so distant future, who will have to watch the border in order to prevent an invasion by poor Dominicans.
However, many of us will still remember...HA ha ha... I told you that there is a God.
It's a pity you don't read French, for I would have posted the entire report for you.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 3:37 AM
From: Canada
However, I will gladly unfurled the red carpet for some gentlemen on this site, I don't have to name them, because they already know whom I am referring to. Oh boy! That's the most refreshing news I've ever received in my whole doggone life. More than 1.5 trillions barrels, it is outstanding. However, I heard that the Yankee have declared our oil to be part of their strategic reserve. You can't be more arrogant than that, but I don't mind as long as they want to pay us the market price for it.
Still see us as primitive monkeys and scums? We'll talk about it in a not so distant future.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 7:25 AM
From: United States, New York City
oupala07, sources please, sources. Get the article and down load it to google translator and then just cut and paste. I was not aware of even any exploration in haiti, first time hearing this. I am fully aware of the exploration of the Cuban waters and they have many sites already discovered, however, their oil is poor quality.

I am not trying to disminish your claim, but I need to read it and search a bit more. Can you at least name the companies conducting the exploration and tagging the sites.

Also, if this case, then the haitian government needs to be responsible in extracting those natural resource and respect our bio diverse system. Also, this money will be good to aid haiti in paying for half of the cost of deporting the illegal haitians in an ordely fashion from the DR.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 26 Oct 2009 9:03 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Ocupala07:

May GOD listen to your propaganda and hopefully We can get rid of the plague; good luck !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 26 Oct 2009 9:04 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:

HAITIAN !
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 9:35 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Oupala you need to take a chill pill
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 9:59 AM
From: Canada
We won't have to pay you, because they will flocked massively back to their country Dagtan, besides, you too have a lot of oil (in the Azua plain). It was discovered in 1982, just do the research on Google and you'll find out. As for the technical details, you know that they yankees will always keep us in the dark. What is solid though is that two Haitians scientist, Daniel and Ginette Mathurin have confirmed the finding.
Why your governement and ours have kept us in the dark for so long? Well, you can imagine the answer. In fact, they knew since 1949 that Haiti and the Dominican Republic are full of the black gold, but the United States have always considered that oil as part of their strategic reserve.
Now, that the World oil production has reached its peak, isn't it time that we the people start asking our government why we are siting on a huge Ali Baba cave while our people are taking to the sea to look for a better living?
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 10:08 AM
From: Canada
I don't expect you innocent sheeps to take a leap of joy. Aren't they selling your country under your feet, and all you find useful is to wage an imaginary war inside your "brilliant Einstein mind" against us Haitians. While you're still swallowing your government deception and lies, we Haitians are already gearing for battle on the subject.
For the ones of you who are gifted enough to understand French check this link out. It's an old report dating back to 2004 that will give you some clue.
I will keep digging to find out more, but it will be hard and if you don't know why, I'll understand.

http://www.webzinemaker.com/admi/....eb=26211&rubr=1&id=181533
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 1:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lord Dagtan ,you and your typical left-twisted arguments. You cannot ask honest questions because you want to ask questions to obtain the answers you want.

1. Do you as a dominican want the haitians to leave our country? Y/N **The only valid question
2. Do you as dominican approve the use of violence to make the haitians go back to haiti?
** Most people do not want violence but question #1 would remove the need for violence.

3. Do you as dominican believe that violence against haitians is justifiable because they are here illegally? ** Again another inane and emotional question to hide the truth that most Dominicans do not want MOST of the Haitians in DR!

4. Finally, do you as dominican approve of people in the border towns taking the law into their owns against the haitians if they are doing something to destroy your land?
** 3 questions (2-4) all basically leading people to either support violence or let the Haitian problem remain ,questions 2-4 are almost identical .
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 1:20 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Pardon the interruption, pepe 32,

But you better read this before you continue with your dangerous to your blood pressure bilingual rants:

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....-Dominican--Haitian-crime-cartels
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 1:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
On another note I have a life so dealing with traitors is only a part-time hobby so you will just have to be patient for me to respond to your idiocy's.

Now some real questions

1. Do you as a dominican want the haitians to leave our country? Y/N
2. Do you feel the Dominican government should respect Dominican law and deport all illegals ? Y/N
3. Do you feel that agencies and NGO's (Jesuits etc.) who work against Dominican interests should be expelled ? Y/N

4.Should we allow Haitians to enter our country at will ? Y/N

5.Will Haitians improve DR ? Y/N

6.Can DR stand the burden of millions of Haitians? Y/N



Real Dominicans know the answers to those questions and they would not respond in the way you would like but of course you don't want the REAL answers just the PC correct ones .I have reiterated my disapproval of violent means to solve anything but like most Dominicans we need a resolution soon,because otherwise those that are willing to use violence will take
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 1:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Oupala,you are delirious! I have read many fables from the Dominican side about petroleum reserves on the island of La Española but none based on reliable science so instead of dreaming about "easy money" go to Haiti and tell your countrymen to get of their arses and start WORKING to improve Haiti .
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 1:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That's a good one. And I thought the French Canadians were world champ in humor. No, I think you guys are better, for I 've been laughing at your short jokes for quite a while. It's really a pity your people must nurse knuckleheads like some morons on this wonderful web site. Well! Ya know, nothing's perfect in this sinful world. There are even more morons in my country than yours, why do you think you have not only overtaken us, but also left us way back in the dust?


Oupala loves Josean ....and Josean wonders why we know he is a "vendepatria"

The poignant truth does come out from this sincere dolt "There are even more morons in my country than yours"

Which is mainly due to the Haitian influence in DR of all the backwards influences inflicted upon us by subsequent Haitian "invasions" and the negative cultural influences received from our primeval neighbor to the west .
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 1:34 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"Real Dominicans"

pepe32,

What is the national or international body that does the due diligence and provides an irrefutable document recognized by the national and international courts as to what constitutes a "Real Dominican?’’

PS

How much does it cost, can I get one before Christmas and do they take credit cards?
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Josean querido piti yo lei el articulo pero mis respuestas van para to amo Dagtan así es que ladra en otra dirección.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Ademas yo no apoyo criminales ya sean Dominicanos ,Haitianos o Marcianos...

Yo creo que los que están locos de atar son tu amo y tu porque entre Dominicanos ustedes apestan .
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 2:24 PM
From: Canada
Pepe32

Why don't you go tell your government to start drilling and selling the huge pool of oil on which your country rests its ass. Maybe it'll find enough money to help those poor lads among your countrymen and women who are obliged to sell earthworms in order to survive.

What don't you go and tell your politicians to exploit your country oil instead of keeping it in reserve for the United States when the Middle East will dry up. Why don't you do that instead of showing us how mentally retarded you are.
As far back as the middle of the last century, your country was producing 60 000 barrels a day of crude oil, but they stopped production because it was not profitable enough. However, do you know that in 1982 they discovered a huge reservoir off shore Baharona facing the plain of Azua? Why don't you ask yourself why you never heard about it, or why it hasn't been exploited to enhance the life of your country men? The answer can be find in the behaviour of brainless morons
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 2:25 PM
From: Canada
like yourself who know nothing about what is happening in their country and who think they feel superior enough to take on poorer than them. You and mentally handicapped like you are the shame of your country.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Oupala,if in your deranged mind you are correct than go and talk to your piti brethren and tell them to exploit the oil on YOUR side or you can go on Haitian Today (LOL) and discuss it their ,but WTF are you doing in DOMINICAN today because you as a son of the monster Dessalines have shown what you feel for us (at least you are not a hypocrite) unlike you fellow countrymen who smile at us and wait till we turn our backs to stab us .Like Mr. Antonio who in the Haitian forum of Topix said things about Dominicans that would even make you blush but that in DT comes like a dog with his tail between his legs .

Anyhow fix your mess and let us fix ours (beginning with all your excess people in my country)
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 3:32 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
para "tu" amo Cervantes!
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 3:36 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
pepe32,

If the worms are on leash can you bring them on the METRO?
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 3:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Mascota ,yo no apoyo el Metro pero no me opongo ciegamente a todo lo que hace el hombre que a diferencia de ti es DOMINICANO aunque te duela en el alma (lo siento se que los rojos no tienen alma)
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 3:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Hmm between Cervantes and Dogtan....what a choice !
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 3:58 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Pepito,

¿Y tú no crees que con ese AFRO que tiene el “hombre” tal vez no sea un poquito haitiano?
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 4:20 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Pepe32, you still reeling from the beating you received from me years ago.. No Pepe32/OndeVert you will not marginalize or radicalize me, if it is your agenda then your case is moot from the start. After you have spent so many years under several aliases, regurgitating the same rant and verbiages which have served to prove my point that you are ONLY a sore loser "un grand parleur and petit faiseur" psst do not mine me piti keep holding your grudges, sadly you can only envy me since you are a powerless lightweight.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 6:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Piti , ningún piti borrachito como tu casado con una mojada tiene nada que enseñarme,que memoria selectiva cuando entraban todos los animales a atacar un puñado de Dominicanos y cagarse sobre la RD pero aquí andas como perrito chihuahua ,tranquilo porque sabes que aquí tus pendejadas no durarían ni 10 minutos porque este es un foro DOMINICANO asi es que aguántate piti porque aquí ni tu ni tus paisanos pueden decir las cosas que decían en Topix.

Pero en fin lo tuyo es de esperar como buen piti pero mi desprecio mayor es para los traidores ya que tu defiendes lo tuyo como debes pero estos son traidores a su gente y a su nación.

Bueno , demasiado tiempo dedicado a un piti borracho ..

Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 7:05 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
pepito,

Keep it 120/80, ok muchacho!
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 7:46 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Pepe32 I spent enough time with you "ti mal" I know most of your arguments so well you can start them, and I will probably finish them. If you want to behave as a crack pot or a be useful idiot suit yourself, just keep me out of your martyr.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 10:30 PM
From: Canada
pepe32

You are too poor and not smart enough to own a well conceived and built web site like DominicanToday. It is not a compliment I am throwing at the Web Master who is behind that excellent job, it is the truth. Therefore, when I come here, as I did remember telling you, it is because the Internet is the last frontier for democracy and people like you are destroying it with their bullying intolerance.
When you see the pseudo Oupala07, it means that this guy comes here not because he wants to primarily take on the Dominicans, but to take the ones among them who are too idiot to understand a rat about the situation which the two nations are facing, and put them down to Earth.
You are so backward and misinformed that you don't even understand the importance of the information I am passing to you inside my comments. Because, if you were not a retarded and severely impaired mentally, you would have started to ask yourself this question :
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 26 Oct 2009 10:37 PM
From: Canada
"Why the Hell there are so much oil in my country, and people must still be fleeing onboard of nutshell across the shark infested Carribean sea in order to look for better future and way of life that their own country has been denying them for so long? If I were you, I'd rush back to the Asylum from which I escaped, and seek further treatment for my acute mental disorder.
Whatever you do whatever you say, in one thousand years, there will still be Haitians and Dominicans living side by side on this island, and there is nothing pea soup brains like you will be able to do.
Get a life little.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 5:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Hey Mr. Bonobo why don't you go and fix your cesspool and leave our mess to Dominicans because it is more than obvious that you cannot even handle the self created disaster area and worldwide charity case called Haiti so no matter what you say your rantings are those of a beast lecturing on education.It seems even you realize that there is nothing to be done with Haiti so you bring your same failed "solutions" to a DR forum when we have enough people already tainted by your extreme ignorance .I have to control myself because I try not to mistreat dumb animals for they are not at fault in their ignorance but you and your compatriots plus our Dominican traitors try anyones patience especially when most of you are not even in DR and can from the comfort of your US ghetto lives say all you want without it affecting you on a daily basis.
Now if you are such a proud people ,why are you in DR when we don't want you and why do your countrymen scream when we haul them back to Haiti?
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 5:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Why do such a "proud" people a "gift to humanity" so insistent on staying in my country since you and the Dominican traitors agree DR is poor and backwards?

What is the phsycological profile of such people who are literally eating dirt yet somehow consider themselves superior beings?

Just get the hell out of my house to which you were never invited and came like thieves in the night only to criticize and to bite the hand that feeds you when NOBODY wants you in their countries.

Why don't you protest the US and other nations that deport Haitians without batting an eye or put them in camps like the US with the HIV scare?

Reality is a bitch and Haitians and their public defenders prefer to protect the illness instead of curing it because the main reason for Haitian backwardness is behind your ears in the popular Dominican saying.

I cannot fathom why Haitians with so much on their plate that half the world is trying to resolve don't focus on helping Haiti and instead spend t
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 5:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
time in Dominican forums spewing Haitian ignorance about DR .If the few Haitians with half a brain spent a fraction of their time getting involved to improve Haiti as they do writing garbage in DR forums Haiti might stand a chance .

Haiti is on its last chance with the international community which has tried time after time to help Haiti get back on its feet throwing millions into the "black hole" (no pun intended) which sucks everything in without producing anything.You now have Clinton,Carter,the EU and the UN trying to get the country on its feet but it is hard carrying "dead weight" .So if you truly care about Haiti focus all your scarce neurons on Haiti because otherwise the whole world will write Haiti off and you will finally have to face the worst enemy of the Haitian people ...themselves.

Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 27 Oct 2009 8:27 PM
From: Canada
That's what I was saying. You see, When someone keeps talking to himself, it is a proof that he/she is a mental handicapped, There are several types of them, Now, which one are you? An absent minded? An Alzheimer stricken? A raven lunatik? An innocent crazy dude or a heavy crack user?
If you're smoking the latter, I can understand why you are so full of it, because not only crack messes up you brain and impairs your judgement, it destroys you too.litte by litte. :-)
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 10:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Boy it is a sad thing being a Haitian and even worse is a Haitian in a Dominican site who thinks people actuallu listen to him....that stupidity is why Haitians are the shithole of the hemisphere and now they want to crap all over DR so go back to your latrine and plug that plunger mouth of yours because you are spreading your excrement in DT and the stench of the HBO is contaminating our space.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 Oct 2009 4:30 AM
From: Canada
Litte pea soup brain Pepe,

It really shows that the truth is hurting you, and if you were not a real and ratarded idiot , you'd understand that I don't have to move to visit the DT Web site: I just have to click my mouse left button to get there. Therefore, I am afraid your small intellect can't get rid of my comments, unless the moderator(s) would decide to ban me which, I am pretty sure, he wouldn't do for you if he's objective and balance on his judgement, and I am pretty sure he is.
So, keep vomitting your bowels on your body, you'll be the only one going to sleep with the relent. You know fully well that people listen to me on this site, because they know that I am not a fanatic lunatic like you. I told you again to go get a life, that's the best thing you can do for yourself.
Written by: Pepe32, 28 Oct 2009 8:01 AM
From: Dominican Republic
You are right in some way ,a piti like you is not worth the effort ,so I will leave your with your delusions of grandeur and you mud pies..

It's funny that you think I care about you when I pity a moron who uses his energy in such a wasteful manner instead of contributing to his own ...

Adieu Bête noire
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 Oct 2009 10:43 AM
From: Canada
Oh Great ! Aleluia !
I always said that even a fool can finally be struck by a jolt of genius. Unfortunately for you, that miracle moment in your poor mentally retarded life won't last, because I pretty certain we will be smelling your gut sooner or later on this blog. However, I'll take happily this break from you as a joyful event, because it will give me time to get myself some more sanitizing and air cleaner products when you'll lost your bowels controls the next time, I am pretty sure will be soon.
Written by: josean, 28 Oct 2009 1:08 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
pepito,

You’re throwing in the “toalla”?
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