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SANTO DOMINGO. – Dominican Republic’s Foreign Relations Ministry today condemned the killing of four Haitians in an incident in the western border community Jimaní and affirmed that the country’s judicial authorities will proceed immediately against the aggressors.

Expressing the Government’s consternation from the tragedy Carlos Morales said the Dominican people repudiate acts as this nature. “We condemn and reproach these deaths and I hope that justice acts quickly against the unscrupulous ones whot committed it."

The killings occurred in the isolated section Loma El Bejuco, between the communities Boca de Cachón and Pinos del Edén, of Jimaní, Independencia province, where the victims were chopping down trees to make charcoal, said Judicial District prosecutor Ruddy Perez Medrano.

“It’s the Government’s interest that the corresponding authorities act of quickly and adequately so the people responsible for this abominable fact are sent to court as quickly as possible to pay this offense to society."

Moales said, and affirmed that when an incident like this occurs “the only thing it deserves of the Government and Dominican society is its firm rebuke and the commitment to take all necessary measures to prosecute those responsible."

Three deaths

A Police Forensics team from Santo Domingo affirms that the number of Haitians who died from the attack near Jimaní is three.

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COMMENTS
406 comment(s)
Written by: CarlosFranco, 23 Oct 2009 3:01 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn

Mr. Morales, don't forget that these dead men committed two crimes

1. Entering illegaly into the country
2. Destroying our ecosystem...


La MORALEJA of this story is DON"T CUT OUR GODDAMN TREES

Written by: CarlosFranco, 23 Oct 2009 3:02 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn

The protesters in the picture above, are complaining about the charcoal, nobody like raw meat, Is not the dead men they're concern about!



Written by: lmejia, 23 Oct 2009 3:06 PM
From: Canada, Toronto
Maybe they will think twice now before crossing over and cutting our trees. Has the Hatian that escaped has been charged?? That's what I want to know!!
Written by: telemeco, 23 Oct 2009 3:07 PM
From: United States, Paterson, New Jersey

We seriusly need another trujillo in power, all these NGO and goberment pleasing international opinion are going to get us no where and we will have the haitian down our throat for the end of time.
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 3:12 PM
From: United States, Chicago
Is LF going to hold a press meeting?
Written by: lmejia, 23 Oct 2009 3:14 PM
From: Canada, Toronto
hmmmm..I dont know about another Trujillo but our goverment needs to put their foot down and protect our natural resources with a firm hand. Our rivers se tan poniendo seco!! Where the hell is Greenpeace when you need them!!

I grew up in Santiago, I went back last year after many years of being here in Canada, 2 of the rivers where I spent much of my childhood are pretty much gone, the future generation has the most to lose if the Haitians keep killing OUR eco-system!!
Written by: crabmaster, 23 Oct 2009 3:21 PM
From: United States
Good job Morales for providing a quick response to this act of butchery. Whether these Haitian men were committing a crime it is not up to vigilantes or mass murders to adjudicate justice. DR does have a functioning legal aparatus to deal with such crimes and they do a good job of it.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:21 PM
From: United States
imejia "I grew up in Santiago, I went back last year after many years of being here in Canada, 2 of the rivers where I spent much of my childhood are pretty much gone, the future generation has the most to lose if the Haitians keep killing OUR eco-system!!"


Welcome to our Santiago world here in the site. Santiagueros here are sounding like broken record everytime. What a freakin beautiful city back when Balaguer used to be president. The more they call Balaguer racist the more I admire Balaguer.
Written by: hellborn25, 23 Oct 2009 3:25 PM
From: United States
I dont agree with the killings but they enter the country illegaly and had the nerved to steal and cut are trees . this haitians kinda had it coming and from my understanding this is a everyday thing with the haitians coming in illlegaly , and cutting are trees and taking the trees back to haiti . where are the border police at ? were is the security team at ?
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 3:26 PM
From: United States, Chicago
enjoy Santiago while you can
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:29 PM
From: United States
hellborn

I will try to download a picture of DR fronteras 10 year ago and today. It make you drop some tear the way they are destroying our country. It is like we have to pay for their backwardness.
Written by: Kathrin, 23 Oct 2009 3:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic
continuation...

why they leave their mother country. You do not know the dangers that they face everyday.

I imagine that many of you are sitting in MY country, the USA. I imagine that many of you are immigrants. Legal or illegal, we are speaking of humans. I hate to be the one to remind Dominicans...do not forget that African blood is running through your icy veins at this very second.

May karma run it´s course on you...
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 3:32 PM
From: United States, Chicago
kath,
would you be mad if someone went into your back yard and took everything?
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:42 PM
From: United States
kathrin

Are you Dominican and fed up with our Haitian's problem and want to incite Dominican all over the country to repel the Haitians?

or you want us


To bend over and allowed the poor "victim" Hatians to come and destroy our country too.

Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:43 PM
From: United States
This is what we need more pacifist humanist to pep talk us.
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 3:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Kathrin is probably an Haitiana posing as "American" .Tell me Katherine do Haitians have a right to go wherever they want ?

When Dominicans break the law or are deported from the US we understand the US has the right to do so.

I disagree with the killings but you are obvious new to the forum and come with the same tired race arguments when the reality is that race has as much to do with this as it did with the Tutsi's and Hutu's in Rwanda so take your infantile free shots somewhere else.! So your comment about African blood is not only stupid ,it is incorrect for some of us and even for those that have African blood ,we don't follow the one drop rule of the KKK and the Afrocentrist movements for we are a nation of mixed bloodlines and what unifies us is not race but love for our country and our common CULTURE and LANGUAGE .So if you don't want to be mugged in this forum please withhold your Afrocentrism because most of us consider it just the flip side of white racism.!
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 3:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
What will be ironic is if all the innocent illegal and legal Dominicans abroad, start to get killed, beaten, burned, etc to pay for Crimes that other Dominicans abroad do. Karma will be a bitch then huh.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:53 PM
From: United States
Pepe

At first all the Haitians here pose as Dominicans from Antonito sabeto to Jossie our pinata aqui so they can be seen as impartial. Then they come clean and admit where they come from out of "pride" when they can't take it anymore.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 3:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Kathrin

Can i ask you what you think should be the charges against the one who survived the incident? Because he is alive and committed many times the same crimes of entering illegally to the country many times and destroying the eco-system many times if we go by the books this guy would pretty much be the rest of his life in jail which will cost us lots of money so what do you think we should do with him.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 3:55 PM
From: United States
Time2

That afro-crap have no merit here.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 3:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
time2rise

the ones who got killed here were not innocent. they knew exactly that what they were doing is illegal from entering illegally to destroying the eco-system so don't mix apples and oranges here.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 3:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 3:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Kathrin

Can i ask you what you think should be the charges against the one who survived the incident?

_______________________________________________________________

I will say replant trees where needed in DR.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belly i have not read everyones comments,in all of these other posts and this one, so i'am not sure what your opinion is, but are you saying that it was correct in killing them?
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
vacanos, so you are white LMAO
Written by: tschotschua, 23 Oct 2009 4:05 PM
From: Germany, Koblenz, Rheinlandpfalz
The Governments of both Dom. Rep. and Haiti have to act quickly in order to fix the problem, they are the ones who have the solutions and are the most responsible for what is happening and may happens. If things continue as usual.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Like i said before these is one Good way to keep Dominicans and Haitians busy and not realize who the real Enemies are.
Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 4:11 PM
From: United States
ALL HERE'S SOMETHING TO PONDER....

QUESTION:
Will the FOREIGN investors who buy prime Dominican beach land and surrounding areas which deny Public access, destroy and clear out our natural Forrest for the sake of prosperity and Employment.......

Would they be SHOT also ?

CHARGE THOSE RESPONSIBLE, THEY'LL HAVE THERE DAY IN COURT....IF THEY CAN PROVE THEY KILLED IN SELF DEFENSE....SO BE IT....BUT, LET JUSTICE BE SERVED.

Formerly mrios now I'm riosm what a joke, soon to be mriosm and who knows from there.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 4:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
time2rise

i said it many times the killing was not the best option but in Texas the death penalty has proven to be very effective way to deal with people that just can't behave in a society. the difference between 200 people and 20 people dead in a hurricane could be well attributed to the conditions of the eco-system so if we allow our eco-system to be destroyed we are allowing future generations of Dominicans to be destroyed too. I can tell you 1 thing douh there won't be any tree cutting for a while in this area by nobody so if that's what it takes once all other options haven't work then proceed with it. Hard times require hard choices and if we fail to make them somebody else will.
Written by: joblitsky, 23 Oct 2009 4:12 PM
From: United States
kathrin says, "do not forget that African blood is running through your icy veins at this very second."

What does that have to do with what happened? Are you saying that what happened was because of racism?
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Its a sad day when this Dog in the link below, is more humane, then these racist commentators in DT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5OEKA47xFI
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:16 PM
From: United States
time2 "vacanos, so you are white LMAO"


uh huh next time try Dominican nationalist
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 4:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
time2rise

Its a sad day when this Dog in the link below, is more humane, then these racist commentators in DT.

One more time the RACE CARD shows up here WOW.

Is this you in the picture:
http://forthardknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/race-card.jpg
Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 4:23 PM
From: United States
Belly,

Please read my last post....

Imagine that if while in the DR I was robbed at knife point by a group of Tigres and so fearing for my Life I dropped 6 with my 6-shooter....Does that mean I'll be hailed as a HERO ! ....At least until they find out there fellow Dominicans.....How sad.

I put blame on the Dominican Gov. for not acting responsible with the Border Enforcement sooner....as always Politicals see a problem but fail to respond in a timely manner. These Murders could have been avoided in my opinion.

Let us not forget HUMAN SURVIVAL.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:28 PM
From: United States
rios

Please enlighten us here how these acts will be avoided in the future if the Haitians keep breaking the law trespassing into our country then trespassing in private territory and then killing our eco-system. I'm all ears.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 4:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
riosm

Imagine that if while in the DR I was robbed at knife point by a group of Tigres and so fearing for my Life I dropped 6 with my 6-shooter....Does that mean I'll be hailed as a HERO

No you will be a citizen who was protecting his life from criminal and if you have follow the story arrest warrant have already been issued.

Here is my question to you WHY IS THE DOMINICAN GOV TO BE BLAMED FOR HERE? I mean if the Haitian gov. would have enforced their laws we would not be talking about this case now because before they left the country they would have been caught and prosecuted to intent to trespass illegally into another country.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belly

If the concern about the Pollution against the DR Environment is the case here, than your saying it should be justified if the Government starts to kill my fellow Dominicans who pollutes rivers, lagoons, beaches in DR? Because let me tell you that living DR for 5 years, i have seen some pretty disgusting Rios in DR where Dominicans wash cars, shit, dump there garbage etc.

Or if im driving all of a sudden i see a PicaPollo Styrofoam flying in the air follow by a president bottle, shattering in the pavement as well. Or in SemanaSanta more like Semana Sucia, you will cry if you see the aftermath on Monday morning of accumulated garbage on the beaches and Rivers, you will then i guess want to pull out the uzi and start spraying huh.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:16 PM
From: United States
time2 "vacanos, so you are white LMAO"


uh huh next time try Dominican nationalist
_______________________________________

Where do you live again? cause im confused it says US on your profile.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 4:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
time2rise

here is the major difference between what you are point out. It takes 2 days to pick up the garbage that is left after semana santas but with the money made of just taxes in that week there wouldn't be a problem but if you cut down trees in another country and destroying others people hard work over many generations to protect it just because you destroyed your own future. Why should we allow you to destroy what was handed to us from many generations well i say that's a BIG NO NO if you ask me. It takes 20 years for a tree to grow now ask your self how many 1000s have these 4 people cut in their life time.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:38 PM
From: United States
time2 "Where do you live again? cause im confused it says US on your profile."


Then if I live in the usa for now that will not make Dominican nationalist? hahaha
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belly,

First im not saying we should not protect our environment i agreed 100 percent in protecting, but killing them is a bit harsh, there is always an alternative for punishment, if there was not, then in the US Dominicans will all be killed with all the Tigueres that commit crimes in the US.

Second ahh we still have some dirty ass filthy rivers in DR, or areas where all of sudden becomes landfills buy locals.I have to educate the Dominican kids when i see them throw garbage anywhere they feel like it, because there parents don't give a shit about the environment they live in because of the misery of poverty they live in. Same as Haitians they dont give a shit because the misery of poverty they live in as well .

And so who is responsible for the conditions they all live in? like i said before these is one Good way to keep Dominicans and Haitians busy and not realize who the real Enemies are, who have always kept them in unfavorable predicaments.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 4:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
vacanos

Manup and walk the talk and moved down to DR and start your nationalist movement, and see how far that will take you. lol
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 5:05 PM
From: United States
time2 "Manup and walk the talk and moved down to DR and start your movement, and see how far that will take you. lol"


That is what we Dominican always do going back to our homeland. Eventually is what I'm going to do too. It is one of the reasons why we Dominican prosper because we end up investing in our country. About that movement it is coming we just need another Balaguer in there. Trust me when you see our people teaching the Haitians some manner like the one recently is because they are getting fed up. When it starts I will be there. :)
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 5:09 PM
From: United States, Chicago
I thought that the person on the pick was mannywood without the go-T
Written by: danny00, 23 Oct 2009 5:22 PM
From: United States
Written by: CarlosFranco,


Mr. Morales, don't forget that these dead men committed two crimes

1. Entering illegaly into the country
2. Destroying our ecosystem...


La MORALEJA of this story is DON"T CUT OUR GODDAMN TREES
what would u say if they LYNCH DOMINICANS IN NEW YORK CITY EVERY TIME ONE IS ENVOLVED IN A CRIME?... AS FAR AS THE TREES..... BETTER DO YOUR HOME WORK ON THIS.... OK! THE HAITIANS MAY OR MAY NOT CUT DOWN THE TREES BUT I KNOW THIS FOR SURE.... FEW YEARS BACK ONE "GENERAL" DOMINICAN ARMY lost his postion as the general why? because he had this troops cut down 1,000 of dominican trees so he could sell them for this own profit. sit on this my friend...
Written by: Sajomero, 23 Oct 2009 5:26 PM
From: United States, Santiago de los Caballeros
My dear Kathrin you posted;
Written by: Kathrin, 23 Oct 2009 3:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic
why they leave their mother country. You do not know the dangers that they face everyday.
I imagine that many of you are sitting in MY country, the USA. I imagine that many of you are immigrants. Legal or illegal, we are speaking of humans. I hate to be the one to remind Dominicans...do not forget that African blood is running through your icy veins at this very second.

May karma run it´s course on you...
Now what the hell does Haitians cuttiing trees have to do with our Afrcan ancestry??Or are you just throwing race into the issue so it can get messier??
Please stick to the topic of vigilante justice, trespassing, illegal logging and border protection.
Written by: danny00, 23 Oct 2009 5:28 PM
From: United States
ok! kill the haitians..... THIS IS THE ANSWER..... and how tell me what u would want to do with the domincans they TRASH THEIR OWN COUNTRY and u know they do this even though they say "i love my country".....GO SEE THE RIVERS, THE BEACHES, THE EMPTY LOTS, "FULL OF GARBAGE"... GO SEE. then tell me whos killing the country?.

two years ago was near one river by the aiport in sousa area.... one young guys was shooting every bird he could see. i asked him why?.... he said he liked to kill all animals.....kill every thing and throw your garabge in the rivers.. this is the way to go.....
Written by: danny00, 23 Oct 2009 5:30 PM
From: United States
u kill people for cutting down trees?.....sh--t domincans do much worst things in the united states. then 'CUTTING DOWN TREES"... no one "kills them"
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 5:30 PM
From: United States, Chicago
danny,
you forgot a few more crimes...

stealing our property. The tree belongs to the land owner

Also, this will drop real estate values in these areas. Everyone knows that a tree and any other natural "fixtures" increase the value of the land.
Written by: danny00, 23 Oct 2009 5:32 PM
From: United States
xwill IM NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE HAITIANS..... u are right in your statement..
but we need to go EASY... on this.....cant just KILL PEOPLE..
I DONT HAVE THE ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM..... and it is a BIG PROBLEM...
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 5:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Vacanos,

Keep dreamings like the KKK, with there Segregation crap that did not work, due to all the interracial couples currently in the US and not mention in DR, yes there is Dominicans and Hatians hitting the sack together as we speak. Just a couple months ago a Dominican Politur fell obsessively in love with a Haitian chick, and when he found out that she was messing around with a Haitian guy the Dominican Politur killed the Haitian guy, true story here in cabarete.

Written by: danny00, 23 Oct 2009 5:36 PM
From: United States
my daughter was held up last month in santiago coming from school at night.... i was VERY UPSET AND MAD about this.... i think if i was their and got my HANDS on the two PUNKS maybe i would KILL they also.... it was done by two young domincan boys my girl is domincan.... not done by HAITIANS this CRIME....as i said just cant KILL....
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 5:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic
ok! kill the haitians..... THIS IS THE ANSWER..... and how tell me what u would want to do with the domincans they TRASH THEIR OWN COUNTRY and u know they do this even though they say "i love my country".....GO SEE THE RIVERS, THE BEACHES, THE EMPTY LOTS, "FULL OF GARBAGE"... GO SEE. then tell me whos killing the country?.
________________________________________________________________
dannyoo you must currently live in DR or spent alot of time here. Because you hit that nail right in the head.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 5:43 PM
From: United States
time2
"Keep dreamings like the KKK, with there Segregation crap that did not work, due to all the interracial couples currently in the US and not mention in DR, yes there is Dominicans and Hatians hitting the sack together as we speak. Just a couple months ago a Dominican Politur fell obsessively in love with a Haitian chick, and when he found out that she was messing around with a Haitian guy the Dominican Politur killed the Haitian guy, true story here in cabarete."


Afro-crap no merit here go cry to Sharpton or wrights not here in DR
Written by: xwill7, 23 Oct 2009 5:47 PM
From: United States, Chicago
danny,
send her some pepper spray and tell her not to wear anything fancy to school. Also, have her use a cheap cell phone on the street and keep her nice phone at home, she can switch chips when she gets home. Its hard but these guys are going after everyone.

Spray those suckers with pepper spray and they will be crying like babies
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 5:51 PM
From: United States
time2 "dannyoo you must currently live in DR or spent alot of time here. Because you hit that nail right in the head."


Two wacko Jacko agreeing with each other :ROLL:
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 6:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Vacanos

I have the same skin tone as well as my 2 sons, as the kid in your avatar, and thank God im not as ignorant as you to think that i do not have one spec of african dna.

The world's oldest early human skeleton is unearthed in Ethiopia
http://www.independent.co.uk/news....unearthed-in-ethiopia-527360.html


The Real African Eve Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCdYif79f4Y
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 6:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Formerly mrios now I'm riosm what a joke, soon to be mriosm and who knows from there.

What happened?
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 6:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Vacanos when you live down here in the DR, where i currently live, than you can speak about what you observe with you own eyes in the DR, until then worry about where you are currently residing.

Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 6:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
time2rize ,the ignorance on your part and many of the US based posters is that you instinctively play the race card for every issue ...

Afrocentrism is a disease as much as the Aryan nation and the Nazi's ,just swap the adjectives and the ideas are identical.

This is a complex issue of rivalry,ware and death going on over 200 years and oversimplification is not going to get us anywhere.

The Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other in droves and they are both Black,not to mention the countless wars in Europe (all White) .

We have one poor third world nation being flooded by even poorer and more backwards illegal immigrants from another nation which is a historical enemy and you expect the poor and uneducated citizens of the invaded nation to call for a forum to discuss the issues and reach an agreement?

We have Dominicans ripping Dominican heads off and when 4 Haitians get killed it is a major issue!

The uneducated will respond with violence because they don't know any oth
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 6:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic
other way but your focusing on race besides being myopic only complicates an already complex issue which is mainly economic and nationality based.

I would like to see the same outpouring when a Haitian or Haitians kill Dominicans but of course the knee jerk liberal afro-centrists will probably not even wince because the victim card exonerates you from blame and allows you to excuse wrongdoing .

Written by: Juango, 23 Oct 2009 6:20 PM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
My GOD ! I have read the all comments above, twice......my GOD!!,,, Help us all. These issues go way beyond eco-persevation (cutting of trees)....!!! The more I read, the happier I am with my decision to leave the DR. I truely hope someday there will be massive lawful & moral social reform. Just my view on the subject.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 6:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Pepe32
Do you currently live in the DR? if so do you not hear, the Racism that comes out of some Dominicans who are the same skin tone. Sometime my fellow Dominicans try to talk to me, because of my light skin tone they feel comfortable and slander Haitians with words like Estos Maldito Negro el Diablo, until i put them on check, and make them realize, that they are all in the same boat. The Race Card was thrown at the the Nationalist white Posters not the Killers, if thats what you meant.
Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 6:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Time racism exists in DR in Haiti and in the whole world but to generalize is to err.

There are Dominican racists and there are Haitian racists Haitian mulattoes who don't even want to be near blacks unless it is the "help" .I have even run into Haitians barefoot and illiterate who somehow think they are superior to Dominicans.So ignorance exists everywhere but the issue at hand is way to complex to bring something that while it may have race on the surface is about survival,nationalism and tribal instincts .

The interesting thing about bias is that afro descendants don't like these stereotypes but they easily accept and even propagate other stereotypes (a su conveniencia) so having rhythm ,being well endowed and even intangibles "tienen mas sabor" are stereotypes that are not only accepted but disseminated by the same people who "don't like:" stereotypes.

"Los blancos no tienen ritmo" ,"estas muy palido","los Europeos no se bañan,"estupidos Gallegos" etc.

Dominicans make f
Written by: devin11, 23 Oct 2009 7:02 PM
From: United States
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 4:38 PM
From: United States
time2 "Where do you live again? cause im confused it says US on your profile."


Then if I live in the usa for now that will not make Dominican nationalist? hahaha


No, for "now" that would make you a U.S. immigrant. If you should ever go back and sacrifice whatever binds you to the U.S. to advocate that which you hold so dear, then you can claim to be a Dominican nationalist. In the meantime as an immigrant here in the U.S., I hope an American nationalist does not burn you alive should you be suspected of breaking any of the laws of this country.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:05 PM
From: United States
time2 "I have the same skin tone as well as my 2 sons, as the kid in your avatar, and thank God im not as ignorant as you to think that i do not have one spec of african dna. "


This Afro and their obsession wiht race. Are these wacko jacko living a bitter life or what? very sad


indeed

Written by: Pepe32, 23 Oct 2009 7:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
and criticize everyone so we have no hesitation in calling the Asian kid Chinito even when he is Korean or Japanese .

The point is we do have some real racism in DR but when afrocentrists come in here and compare us to the KKK and the Nazi's because they come in with a twisted US based idea of race and race relations it shows that these posters whether they live in DR or the US are not in touch with Dominican culture and view DR from the prism of US race relations and US race history.

Our situation with Haiti is even more complex because if it was really race based ,why are the Cocolos (Virgin Islands) in San Pedro not viewed or treated the same? Yet these people are Dominican and do not like the Haitian "invasion".

En fin la situación con los Haitianos esta difícil y si el gobierno no hace algo pronto las cosas se van a poner color de hormiga.

Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:14 PM
From: United States
devil "No, for "now" that would make you a U.S. immigrant. If you should ever go back and sacrifice whatever binds you to the U.S. to advocate that which you hold so dear, then you can claim to be a Dominican nationalist. In the meantime as an immigrant here in the U.S., I hope an American nationalist does not burn you alive should you be suspected of breaking any of the laws of this country."

First devil the haitian broke 3 law come down from the tree puppy. Second Dominican respect the us law and are one of the most strong minority in the country. So my Haitian boy do not compare us. You guys should kiss our butt everytime you see one of us. We leave our country so one of you guys can take that spot in DR.
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:19 PM
From: United States
time2

If I may afro are you baldoria21? Please clarify your status i want to know what kind of wacko I'm dealing here. :)
Written by: perlurdom, 23 Oct 2009 7:29 PM
From: United States, San Diego, CA - (Dei sitio)
The most extensive wetlands in Haiti are the floodplain and delta of the Artibonite River, it's the most important river in Haiti and the longest of the island, the river still exists because its sources are in our Cordillera Central (protected area by DR).
We need to build the wall along our border and create military zones (bases) on at least 80% of the territory adjacent to the border, leaving only four international gates: Dajabon-Ouanaminthe; Elias Piña-Belladere; Jimani-Malpasse and Pedernales-Anse-A-Pitre. Outside that just relocate everybody away from the border to the abovementioned towns or to other places outside the militarized zones. Anyone entering illegaly the Republic through Military zones will be arrested if lucky.
Written by: Sajomero, 23 Oct 2009 7:30 PM
From: United States, Santiago de los Caballeros
ONCE AGAIN KEEP RACE OUT OF THE DISCUSSION...
Dominicans(nationality) shot(illegal) Haitians(nationality) for trespassing(illegal) and cutting down trees(illegal). It's that simple.
Written by: juanb, 23 Oct 2009 7:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I love to read the idiotic comments of my countrymen as they try to defend this barbaric act. These are probably the same jerks that we all see throwing their garbage all over, allow their cars to spew copious amounts of poison into the air we breathe, and burn anything they want whenever they want regardless of the environmental impact. Now these clowns are suddenly defenders of the envieronment. Please, give me a break..
Written by: yumnuk3, 23 Oct 2009 7:52 PM
From: United States
This is embarrassing.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 7:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:19 PM
From: United States
time2

If I may afro are you baldoria21? Please clarify your status i want to know what kind of wacko I'm dealing here. :)
_______________________________________________________________________
Nah Bro i have been here longer than you and l have always had time2rize as my username, never felt the need to hide behind other usernames.
Written by: perlurdom, 23 Oct 2009 8:13 PM
From: United States, San Diego, CA - (Dei sitio)
This is the voice of the victims... I know many here are able to understand, sorry I not good at translating.

Bénel, Bénistil, Jolius et Dieumérite ont froidement été abattus par des inconnus dans un champ où ils faisaient du charbon de bois. Les corps des victimes ont été ensuite jetés dans une mine de charbon qui brûlait encore. Le père de Bénel qui les accompagnait, quant à lui, a été grièvement blessé. Repérée par la police dominicaine, la victime a eu la chance d'être admise à un hôpital en terre voisine. « Je ne peux plus leur faire confiance, crache Jémène. Car, chaque jour qui passe, les Dominicains commetant des crimes de plus en plus odieux. » Un autre compatriote identifié au nom de Tony Charlys a été décapité par des inconnus dans la municipalité de Mao, toujours en République dominicaine.
Written by: perlurdom, 23 Oct 2009 8:14 PM
From: United States, San Diego, CA - (Dei sitio)
Cont...
« Nous étions 18 dans le champ, explique Hébert Désil, un cousin de Bénel. Mais on travaillait par groupe de six. » Un bruit suspect a attiré l'attention du jeune homme qui a pris sur le champ ses jambes à son cou. « Je courais sans savoir pourquoi », dit Hébert, d'un ton essoufflé, comme s'il courait encore.

Hébert, jeune travailleur des champs, jure ses grands dieux de ne plus mettre les pieds en terre dominicaine en dépit de sa proximité avec la République d'Haïti voisine. « Il a été enfin prouvé qu'ils sont des sauvages », affirme le rescapé du mardi 20 octobre qui répète, comme dans une litanie, sa prouesse qui, de peu l'a évité de connaître le même sort que ses autres compagnons.
Written by: antonioj, 23 Oct 2009 8:24 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I am not sure why some of you keep wasting precious time with some half brainers that can not see light or show respect for basic human life, luckily these arse have some so call smart people at the helm of their government that will not fall at their level of imbecility , if these fools had their way they will have DR regressed to a less developed state by 50 years or sink the island by starting conflict with their neighboor. These no gooders love to complain about things that Haitian have done when they ruled them it's about time to move on because, If every nation should hold grudges then there won't be no peace on this planet, just like the Haitian enjoy playing the race card at your detriment, I said ship these mother f"ker back and if you can not do anything shut the hell up cont'd.
Written by: antonioj, 23 Oct 2009 8:24 PM
From: Canada, home safe
cont'd
Let me join you, and help you: a good haitian is a dead one, if you kill 1000 let one go to tell about it, buy air time in haiti TV advise haitian no to come to DR at their own risk, designate Haitians as persona non grata, create political base on an anti Haitian platform.hho about this one a pig is worth $50 dollards and an Haitian life not even close.
Written by: etiennc01, 23 Oct 2009 8:24 PM
From: United States
carlos franco , vacanos ,imejia,telemeco,you are indeed a bunch of very angry and hungry ,and desperate subhuman primates.
brutalizing and exterminating is how you compete for food .
the strong survives !
Thanks God you are able to live in the United Sates and can afford some hamburgers and some hot dogs.
Have you been left in the DR ,you would devour and exterminate poor Haitians and Dominicans if they would dare stealing a chunk of food from you
Written by: antonioj, 23 Oct 2009 8:25 PM
From: Canada, home safe
edit
Written by: wents22, 23 Oct 2009 9:12 PM
From: United States, New York City
this is getting crazy. there's always a story about Haitians. the situation is getting bad!
Written by: devin11, 23 Oct 2009 9:12 PM
From: United States
Written by: vacanos, 23 Oct 2009 7:14 PM
From: United States

"Second Dominican respect the us law..."



Oh really?
Written by: BASTA, 23 Oct 2009 9:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, = Ghetto-SPM-Barrio Blanco
We seriusly need another trujillo in power, I can go for that. First order of business invite liojotoal for lunch.
Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 9:43 PM
From: United States
Kathrin,
1st , are you a member of green peace ?
2nd, I live in Southern California just about all my life, talk to me about Illegal Emigration.
3rd, Are you an expert in Poverty ? what part of the U.S did you live in before moving to the DR ?

Vacanos,
How about the Dominican Gov. Officials and the Dom. Military Enforce the existing Emigration Laws. Start a limited Yearly or Daily Workers Voucher Program, National Register / Tax. I'll be more then happy to go into further details on the Haitian problem.

Belly,
Please read the above...and the same offer apply's.

Question : In the last year how many Illegal haitians have been prosecuted and jailed for violations of Emigration laws ?. YOU BOTH NEED TO WAKE -UP TO REALITY. I'll be more then happy to explian in details what I believe is the answer.

Time2rize,
GOOD POINT. I AGREE.

ALL TAKE CARE, Pray for the victims & surviving families to this horrible Crime.

ALL....let Justice be served.
Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 9:44 PM
From: United States
have all read my last inputs on this subject ???
Written by: Sajomero, 23 Oct 2009 9:45 PM
From: United States, Santiago de los Caballeros
Lets hope he and all his copains keep this promise;

Hébert, jeune travailleur des champs, jure ses grands dieux de ne plus mettre les pieds en terre dominicaine en dépit de sa proximité avec la République d'Haïti voisine.

They have to learn to respect something on this Earth.
Written by: time2rize, 23 Oct 2009 9:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: BASTA, 23 Oct 2009 9:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, = Ghetto-SPM-Barrio Blanco
We seriusly need another trujillo in power, I can go for that. First order of business invite liojotoal for lunch.
________________________________________

lol it was the US that gave him and then balaguer power, just ask for a request.
Written by: CarlosFranco, 23 Oct 2009 9:52 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn

Etienne...


The haitians forced me to the USA... Had no choice but to leave!

Can't go back, cuz the haitians undermine dominican workers...

Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 9:53 PM
From: United States
have all read my last inputs on this subject ???
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 23 Oct 2009 10:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Dando pela en las 5 esquinas
the message has been sent!

cut trees in DR and you'll burn with them.

enough is enough


hasta cuando?

estos pendejos afro-lambones se creen que tienen derecho a convertir la isla en un decierto, el mensaje sono con fuerza en haiti, pues fue enviado en el lenguage que ellos entienden muy bien.
Written by: riosm, 23 Oct 2009 10:06 PM
From: United States
TRUJILLO TYPE.....HELL NO !
My dear old Dad has told me enough Horror story's about this Hitler type to last my life time to include and all my Children........ When I'm in the DR many think I'm Italian or Spanish, which personally which I take as a insult, as if to be Dominican I should be a curtain color. My Grandparents, Parents and my self are Dominican.
ALL TAKE CARE.
Written by: etiennc01, 23 Oct 2009 10:09 PM
From: United States
Great God !
Dominican Today is now " Insane Asylum Today"
Que paso ?
Bring the straight jackets for carlos franco and the otros locos.
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 10:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
riosm

Let teach you a bit about the main problem since you have asked me many times to answer now i will. I start with a example of a report in Nuria's show where on video they were interviewing a Haitian who admitted that he has been deported 12 times and the problem is not getting the deportation going but what happens after is done. For your info almost 80% of Haitian deported from DR get released out in the border the same day and most just wait until the next day and cross the border again. As i can see you have been living in CA most of your life so i have many doubt a guy living in the richest state of the richest country can fine a solution to a small island with a immigration problem that has been happening for almost 200 years. Why don't you take your great ideas and help CA end illegal immigration there. See is very easy to "call the devil but is whole different story to see him coming". to be continued...
Written by: Belly, 23 Oct 2009 10:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Another example 127 Haitian in 2008 waiting for days to be deported and almost all only spoke Creole and some very few words in spanish and they hold up was the Haitian authorities keep saying they were not Haitian because they didn't have a birth certificate that by the way most Haitian don't have one. So you have 127 that only speak creole in a island where in the world can they be from if they can't provide proper documentation. I have been to Haiti 13 times and fed many kids i found on the streets hungry and is hard to look at those kids and think that 95 percent of them with be beggin for life just because their parents didn't have the guts to make the hard choice of changing their own future. So that's why we Dominican have to make hard choices today that eventually will prove to be in our own interest.
Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 10:30 PM
From: United States
WOW, it smells pretty bad in here, I think is best if I do not venture in further than saying, WHAT AN EMBARASSMENT. Quidence mis hijos, y por favor un poco de respecto hace bien.
Written by: amadi, 23 Oct 2009 10:47 PM
From: Netherlands Antilles
Dominicantoday ,That picture above is very old .
Written by: JRRubirosa, 23 Oct 2009 11:34 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dagtan:

Hell of a job advocating for your own etnic class but your lack of personality admiting that
you are Haitian takes all the credit away !

LOL
Written by: CarlosFranco, 24 Oct 2009 12:40 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn

etienne.. lets hve 2,000,000 million straight jacket, for all your bro's that way they can't cut the trees JJJAJJAJAJAJAJJAJ

Written by: CarlosFranco, 24 Oct 2009 12:40 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn

etienne.. lets hve 2,000,000 million straight jacket, for all your bro's that way they can't cut the trees JJJAJJAJAJAJAJJAJ

Written by: CarlosFranco, 24 Oct 2009 12:40 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn

etienne.. lets hve 2,000,000 million straight jacket, for all your bro's that way they can't cut the trees JJJAJJAJAJAJAJJAJ

Written by: CarlosFranco, 24 Oct 2009 12:40 AM
From: United States, Brooklyn

etienne.. lets hve 2,000,000 million straight jacket, for all your bro's that way they can't cut the trees JJJAJJAJAJAJAJJAJ

Written by: riosm, 24 Oct 2009 9:09 AM
From: United States
Belly,
Are you kiddin me about Ca. being the richest State in the richest Country [ from the backs of the working poor], under Oh'Blama ? maybe 20 years ago I would agree. The DR and the U.S profit & prosper from Illegal Immigrants with cheap labor. In the U.S Illegals put much into the U.S economy threw taxes and buying goods.

Enough said. Lets talk about solutions.

1. Clean House, remove ALL Emigration & Military Corrupt Border Officials.
2 .Tighten the Border, 24/7 ground night 7 Day surveillance, air patrol with Ultra lights.
3. Conduct Emigration sweeps and deport all illegals.
4. Create a National data base, picture and finger print.
5. Create a daily, weekly and yearly work permits with fees, issue temp. permits only.
6. Tax work permits.
7. Fine & Jail all who help & harbor Illegals, impose stiff fines w/jail time for violators.
8. With taxes & Fees collected raise the pay rate and provide better training for Emigration personal.
FOR STARTERS......WANT MORE ?
Written by: vacanos, 24 Oct 2009 10:15 AM
From: United States
Don't we love these Haitian like antonito, josean, etienc , tim2, ect pep talk us how we should bend over and allow their savages compatriots ruin our country too. :ROLL:

deja nosotro hacher carbon por que no lo niegue
Written by: Belly, 24 Oct 2009 10:16 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
riosm

See i can tell you haven't been to DR very much because you are implementing first world country solution to a third world country dealing with the poorest country in the continent. Everything you said just sounds good on paper because those are the same measures USA has adopted and guess what illegal immigration just keeps growing and throwing money at the problem is not the solution here. now can i ask you where are you getting the money for this "solutions" and how are you going to convince USA,Canada and France to change their policies towards Haiti which is causing most of the problems inside Haiti which is the reason they leave. Have you ever asked your self that the problem is not deporting them but more like finding a way so they can stay there i gave examples of those deported 12 times yet still come back because they have NOTHING there. See most people that DON"T understand the problem have your solutions and those like me who have been in DR most of my life don't se
Written by: msjersey, 24 Oct 2009 10:21 AM
From: United States, New Jersey
Isn't that solan pierre in the picture?
Written by: Belly, 24 Oct 2009 10:22 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
see them working. You have to understand the mentality and stop thinking like USA has always dealt with problem by throwing more money at the problem and hope it goes away. see there are 2 small countries Cuba and DR and combined have done more for Haiti than all others and including the UN too. The main problem in Haiti is not money is policies from the bigger countries. just go into the forum here and search my thread "why USA and France Hate Haiti" and after reading it you will come with a very different solution than what you have posted here. and yes CA is the richest state that is now going thru a great depression not a recession like is have been made the public believe. All of USA is going thru a great depression as a matter of fact
Written by: riosm, 24 Oct 2009 10:58 AM
From: United States
Belly,
You brought up California.
First of all if the U.S was really serous on it's Border situation it would of been solved years ago. What does Canada & France have to do with the DR / Haitian Emigration problem. Haiti's problems started with the Haitian Gov. in the first place.
If the DR businesses keeps hiring Haitians laborers...More will come, after all most illegals come for a better life don't they. As a Dominican I have a greater chance of be victimized by my fellow Country Men then by a Haitian.
Look at it this way...If the DR took care of business unlike the U.S the DR can also stop the illegal Drug & weapon trade which runs ramped on the U.S/ Mexican Border, DR THE FUTURE MEXICO. The DR can't afford not too.
OUR PROBLEM HAS BEEN IGNORED MUCH LIKE THE U.S EMIGRATION problem...wait until the problem becomes a REAL PROBLEM then act.
In my opinion the DR NEVER got out of it's Home grown depression.
MORE LIKE WHY.....DOMINICANS HATE HAITIANS.
Take care Bro.
Written by: Pepe32, 24 Oct 2009 11:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic
WOW, it smells pretty bad in here, I think is best if I do not venture in further than saying, WHAT AN EMBARASSMENT." Quidence mis hijos, y por favor un poco de respecto hace bien."

Yo sabia que tu de Español no sabias nada CUÍDENSE , RESPETO ,hasta mi hija menor sabe mas Español !

En fin el peor olor que siempre ha habido en este foro es el olor a la traición!
Written by: Pepe32, 24 Oct 2009 11:59 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Ese es el problema de aquellos que están desconectados de la realidad Dominicana y miran con "gafas Americanas" lo que sucede en otros países.Estos traen ideas preconcebidas sobre la problemática Haitiana-Dominicana con claras matices AfroCentristas y se vuelcan en contra de los intereses Dominicanos.

Esta gente dejaron de ser Dominicanos hace tiempo pero cuando les conviene para argumentar dicen serlo.
Written by: Belly, 24 Oct 2009 12:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Pepe32

Tu si saves y entiendes lo que yo e dicho. La gente llega aqui con la mente lavada de ideales pre-condicionado por la noticias afro-centricas y suprematicas. en verdad no entienden el problema y piensan que tienen solucion pero solo demuestran su poco concimiento en frente de todos. yo siempre eh dicho que lo que fuciona en china no quire decir que funciona en USA por que la mentalidad es diferente y asi sucesivamente es la situacion de Haiti y RD. Pero yo los dejo que se crean experto de todo pero no saben nada.
Written by: Belly, 24 Oct 2009 12:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
riosm

By saying that France,USA and Canada have nothing to do with the problems that happen in Haiti you just proved your total ignorance about the topic. Well i can give you directions on where to start to find the real problem check out USA rice policy against Haiti and France policy against Haiti getting loans. Also got to "www.ted.com" and look for a video called "the future of countries" that would be a good start to open your eyes to the world around you because your local news seen not to be doing a good job at it. Here is a great quote by one of the smartest artist in USA. Nasir Jones "Those who know here in U.S. don't talk and those talking don't know thing"
Written by: MIRABUENO, 24 Oct 2009 12:59 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
the thing that i find to be disturbing is the fact that everybody talks about what the haitians are doing in order to condone these killings. listen to me please murder is not the answer. deportation is what we need to be focusing on. i am not in disagreement with anyone but to sit here and condone this foolishness is sinful.
Written by: vacanos, 24 Oct 2009 1:06 PM
From: United States
pepe "Ese es el problema de aquellos que están desconectados de la realidad Dominicana y miran con "gafas Americanas" lo que sucede en otros países.Estos traen ideas preconcebidas sobre la problemática Haitiana-Dominicana con claras matices AfroCentristas y se vuelcan en contra de los intereses Dominicanos.
Esta gente dejaron de ser Dominicanos hace tiempo pero cuando les conviene para argumentar dicen serlo."

Pepe excellente. Desde que yo me hice miembro aqui. Yo me es enfrentados con estos "Dominicanos" con uña y diente. Ellos se arecuerdan de ser Dominicanos cuando estan en la defensiva. Tenemos muchos de esos personaje aqui que reciven su educacion expecialmente en los Estados Unidos le lavan el cerebro con la ONE DROP RULE olvidan su raices y empiesan a elevar su agenda a todo costo. Cuando se sienten en la perdiendo su argumento lo primero que ellos te dicen es "yo soy tan blanco como tu pero no niego mis raices africana como tu".
Written by: vacanos, 24 Oct 2009 1:07 PM
From: United States
cont- Ellos quieren a la fuerza que nosotro olvidemos los ideales de Juan Pablo Duarte y los Trinitario con nuesta Patria y adoptemos sus racismo.
Written by: MIRABUENO, 24 Oct 2009 1:28 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
Santo Domingo.- La Cancillería Dominicana condenó ayer la agresión de que fueron víctimas cinco haitianos, tres de los cuales murieron en un incidente ocurrido en la comunidad fronteriza de Jimaní e instó a las autoridades judiciales del país a actuar contra los culpables lo antes posible.

Al expresar su consternación por la tragedia, el secretario de Relaciones Exteriores, Carlos Morales Troncoso, dijo que actos como este reciben el repudio del Estado y del pueblo dominicano, por no ser esta la forma de dilucidar inconvenientes entre los seres humanos.

“Condenamos y reprochamos estas muertes y espero que la justicia actúe rápido contra los desaprensivos que las cometieron”, declaró Morales Troncoso.

Written by: MIRABUENO, 24 Oct 2009 1:29 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
Las víctimas
El hecho ocurrió en la loma El Behuco, ubicada entre las comunidades Boca de Cachón y Los Pinos del Edén, de Jimaní, en la provincia Independencia, donde las víctimas se encontraban haciendo carbón de leña, de acuerdo con informaciones ofrecidas por el fiscal de ese distrit
Written by: etiennc01, 24 Oct 2009 1:52 PM
From: United States
vacanos, carlos franco,josean are celebrating the killing and burning of Haitians.
What a lack od restraint !
What a display of a primitive,bizarre, wild,and unsophisticated manner to resolving conflicts
Written by: msjersey, 24 Oct 2009 1:56 PM
From: United States, New Jersey
isn,t that sonia pierre in the picture? I mean solan pierre!
Written by: Grosero, 24 Oct 2009 2:06 PM
From: United States
There was no crime committed

An Eye For an Eye
Written by: antonioj, 24 Oct 2009 2:20 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Vacanos, Do not worry I will stand up for your rights in the usa too, I am not telling you what to do, I am telling what you are not doing, do you think there's a difference ? I will let it , up to you to figure it out, in the mean time, vete festejar el muerto de 4 Haitianos con los socio tuyo.disgusting !! psst since you are civilized and have such a respect for human life make sure you pass these attributes to your beautiful wife and children, they will grow up to be great citizens one day they will make you proud, for the ethics, the morals and value you have enticed on them.
Written by: MIRABUENO, 24 Oct 2009 2:47 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
"vacanos, carlos franco,josean are celebrating the killing and burning of Haitians."

josean??? you have got to be kidding me.
Written by: msjersey, 24 Oct 2009 2:48 PM
From: United States, New Jersey
Somebody said "Afro-lambones" that is funny.
Written by: MIRABUENO, 24 Oct 2009 2:59 PM
From: United States, The Lake of Fire
you asked about sonia but you should have said her name right. it is SONIA PIE!
Written by: dagtan, 24 Oct 2009 3:25 PM
From: United States
pepe32, en verdad que hasta yo puedo sentir tu alegria. que gracioso, verdad pepe32? Por que tu no cominezas una propaganda indicando que el GRAN DAGTAN, fallo en dos palabras que tu hijita puede escribir sin ningun problema.
Written by: josean, 24 Oct 2009 4:11 PM
From: United States
josean??? you have got to be kidding me.

Thank you MIRABUENO!
Written by: Sajomero, 24 Oct 2009 4:13 PM
From: United States, Santiago de los Caballeros
Its Solange Pierre, she's sitting somewhere plotting her next move on her way to martyrdom....Nuria and Alicia should stick to her tail and follow the money trail of her supporters. If we allow people like her to gain international recognition painting us as biggots, when the issue at hand is immigration.
Written by: Sajomero, 24 Oct 2009 4:13 PM
From: United States, Santiago de los Caballeros
Its Solange Pierre, she's sitting somewhere plotting her next move on her way to martyrdom....Nuria and Alicia should stick to her tail and follow the money trail of her supporters. If we allow people like her to gain international recognition painting us as biggots, when the issue at hand is immigration.
Written by: josean, 24 Oct 2009 4:23 PM
From: United States
"international recognition painting us as biggots"

All people have to do is read the postings here on DT of some of our “enlighten brethren”, which do a much better job panting us as bigots than Ms. Pierre could ever do!

In fact in anything, they verify Ms. Pierre statements!
Written by: josean, 24 Oct 2009 5:00 PM
From: United States
Oo,know the caca really hit the fan!

Flash Breaking News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PIDE INVESTIGACIÓN

Sacerdote culpa a dominicanos de la muerte de tres haitianos en comunidad de Jimaní

Roselio Díaz Hernández dijo que un grupo de DOMINICANOS que andan en jeepetas utilizan a los haitianos en la tala de árboles para carbón y madera y que esas mismas personas cuando se le descubre la actividad culpan a esos nacionales haitianos quienes terminan siendo las víctimas del problema.


http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=119227



Written by: josean, 24 Oct 2009 5:03 PM
From: United States
What’s the old saying, We have met the enemy and He is US!!
Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 7:01 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Finally You came out of the closet with your nationality !

It was time!

Way to go! CONGRATULATIONS !

I give credit to people that have COJONES !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 7:01 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Finally You came out of the closet with your nationality !

It was time!

Way to go! CONGRATULATIONS !

I give credit to people that have COJONES !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 7:01 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Finally You came out of the closet with your nationality !

It was time!

Way to go! CONGRATULATIONS !

I give credit to people that have COJONES !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 7:01 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Finally You came out of the closet with your nationality !

It was time!

Way to go! CONGRATULATIONS !

I give credit to people that have COJONES !
Written by: antonioj, 24 Oct 2009 7:05 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Josean THE SH?T JUST HIT THE FAN rightly so, it always been wise to wait and investigate the facts before rushing to judgment, that put a whole new twist to the story now.


http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=119227
Written by: riosm, 24 Oct 2009 7:27 PM
From: United States
Belly,
I just check out your Hero TED you know the one with all the answers. I was unable to pull any information on the U.S.A Rice Policy or the France stopping Haiti from getting any loans. Still I could not help but laugh when I saw AL GORE as a future guest speaker [big Al Gore stands to make a bundle of $$ on the global warming issue] on the front web-site. So your right I may be Ignorant on the subject which makes you super smart....
So here's some of my quotes....
KNOWLEDGE DOES ONE NO GOOD IF ONE IS NOT WILLING TO SHARE IT WITH OTHERS. KNOWLEDGE SHOULD NEVER BE CONTAINED, CONTROLLED or MANIPULATED TO FURTHER ONES BELIEF.
MOST READ THINK AND BELIEVE AS AN EXCUSE NOT TO ACT THUS BECOMING SELF SATISFIED KNOWING IT.
What was Clinton doing in Haiti ?
Just goes to show you...Give a man fish He eats for one Day only to become DEPENDENT on you...Teach a Man to fish he then becomes SELF-RELIANT. Does that make any sense to you..I believe it's called COMMON SENSE.


Written by: Belly, 24 Oct 2009 7:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
riosm

See i didn't try to make you look bad and that's was not my intention i just wanted you to know that your solution wouldn't work in this case see each problem in each area of the world has their own solution and is up to locals to figure out. If you keep learning about the reason why Haiti is what it is today the farther away you will find the cause and solution. I have always shared my knowledge in the forum and have almost always been the one putting up topics of Haiti to find the root of the problem not what the media tells all of us. There are many threads and i have 3 upcoming projects to help the island as a whole so i'm not just keeping this knowledge to my self.
Written by: Ciego, 24 Oct 2009 7:46 PM
From: United States
ESTO LO COMENTE EN OTRA PAGINA, PERO APLICA A ESTA SITUACION:

Este es un tema muy delicado y que mas que espiritual (como algunos pretenden), es economico y social.
El Problema:?1- La explotacion del Haitiano.?2-Duenos de companias se hacen ricos por que tienen que pagarle menos a un empleado.?3-Esto crea desempleo dentro de la poblacion Dominicana, eso trae otros males sociales (delincuencia, venta de narcoticos)?4-Viola los derechos humanos/labor del Haitiano.
Porque Pasa:?1-Haiti es el pais mas pobre de este hemisferio.?2-El gobierno Haitiano no tiene la voluntad (le importa poco) politica o economica para resolver los problemas que afectan a su poblacion.?3- El gobierno Dominicano/ricos/oligarquia quieren una economia que siga creciendo. Mientras menos se le pague a una persona, mas se queda en el bolsillo del rico, mas dinero le sobra para invertir.?4- Los politicos no les importa a quien afecte, mientras ellos puedan decir “la economia crecio un 2%, estamos haciendo un buen
Written by: Ciego, 24 Oct 2009 7:47 PM
From: United States
trabajo” Aunque la poblacion Dominicana no vea los frutos de esto!?5- Los votantes Dominicanos y la prensa no son muy activos, deben forzar la mano de sus politicos a que resuelvan este problema. Hay que forzar a los politicos a que tengan debates publicos (no se como se hace eso) e incluir este tema en el debate.?6-Instinto humano de mejorarse, el Haitiano prefire comer habichuelas, a tener que comer tierra (hay un video donde ensenan como ellos hacen “un no se que” con lodo y se lo comen.
La Soluciones:?1-Departamento de Inmigracion tiene que ser mas activo, recojiendo personas.?2- Que el Haitiano pueda llevar sus quejas humanitarias/laborales a una corte, esto hara que los duenos de companias no los puedan explotar. Significa que tendran que pagarle los mismos sueldo a Dominicanos y Haitianos. El gobierno tiene que decir que cualquier persona que trabaje en construccion/agricultura tiene que recibir 950 pesos por 8 horas de trabajo.?3- Instituir multas de 20,000 pesos por cada empl
Written by: Ciego, 24 Oct 2009 7:49 PM
From: United States
empleado ilegal que usted tenga trabajando en su compania.?4- Visas para cualquier persona que quiera viajar a la RD, tenemos criminales de todo el mundo, tenemos que sacarlos del pais, antes de destruyan el futuro de nuestros hijos.?5-Contratos de empleos por una ano, tienen que aplicar desde Haiti, no desde RD.
Este es un problema que va a traer grandes consecuencias a nuestro pais, si no se resuelve rapido, explotara una bomba como en Kosovo y tendremos un gran problema. A lo que comparan a RD con EEUU, ni en sueno o pesadilla puedes compara esos dos. Todo tiene que ver con economia, la economia de EEUU es tremenda frente a la de RD. EEUU es culpable de destruir la democracia de muchos paises (incluyendo RD) para hacerse rica, esto creo inmigracion a EEUU. RD no tiene culpa de lo que paso/pasa/seguira pasando en Haiti. Los problemas de Haiti son internos (super-corrupcion) y externos (no hay inversion exterior).
A los que usan a Dios/religion para decir mi hermano Haitiano esto o
Written by: riosm, 24 Oct 2009 7:50 PM
From: United States
Ciego,
MUCHAS GRACIAS.
Thanks for opening my eyes...A real eye opener.
Written by: Ciego, 24 Oct 2009 7:50 PM
From: United States
A los que usan a Dios/religion para decir mi hermano Haitiano esto o lo otro, si amas tanto al Haitiano, mudate para Haiti y educa al pueblo Haitiano, ellos lo necesitan, pero no uses el nombre de Dios en vano para un problema que es economico y social, no religioso…Vive en la realidad, tu no comes ni tomas fe, vives de una economia crea por el Dominicano/a y para el Dominicano/a.
Mi espanol no es muy bueno, si cometi algun error gramatical o ortografico, por favor perdonenme.
Ciego es aquel que no quiere ver la realidad a su al rededor y se refugia en la ignorancia para explicar su realidad.
El Ciego.
Written by: Ciego, 24 Oct 2009 8:12 PM
From: United States
De nada riosm
Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 8:38 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Ciego:

Cuidado con los Haitianos frustados !

"Dios, patria y libertad"

Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 9:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
That's the point danny00, if we are already trashing our own country, we don't need any help.

Dominicans do much worst things in US than 'CUTTING DOWN TREES"... no one "kills them"
You are forgetting that US have invaded DR twice, killed thousands of Dominicans, raped our land, exploited our natural resources and to crown in all, established the Haitians braceros importation to DR for their sugar factories. They are the real responsible for the massive presence of Haitians here and they are the ones pressing our government not to do anything about it. So no matter what Dominicans do in USA, you owe us largely. Just read your history and you will know.
Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 9:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
time2rize:
"Vacanos when you live down here in the DR, where i currently live, than you can speak about what you observe with you own eyes in the DR, until then worry about where you are currently residing"

So 2times what do you observe? When you go out do you, like me, see more Haitians on the streets than Dominicans? Do you see them only working for construction and farms, or do you see them all over, doing anything, mostly for themselves? Do you see Dominican children shining shoes? Do you see Dominican beggars? Have you go to Cabral & Baez Emergency or maternity ward, or simple drive though our main avenues? What do you really observe?.
Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 9:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic
riosm, Enough said. Lets talk about solutions.

1. Clean House, remove ALL Emigration & Military Corrupt Border Officials.
2 .Tighten the Border, 24/7 ground night 7 Day surveillance, air patrol with Ultra lights.
3. Conduct Emigration sweeps and deport all illegals.
4. Create a National data base, picture and finger print.
5. Create a daily, weekly and yearly work permits with fees, issue temp. permits only.
6. Tax work permits.
7. Fine & Jail all who help & harbor Illegals, impose stiff fines w/jail time for violators.
8. With taxes & Fees collected raise the pay rate and provide better training for Emigration personal. FOR STARTERS......WANT MORE ?

Riosm are those the American or European solutions to illegal immigration? If they are, we need some others, because given the millions of illegal aliens they have, besides being extremely expensive, those obviously don't work
Written by: antonioj, 24 Oct 2009 10:02 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Micaela, I sympathize with you trying to find a solution to such a volatile problem while trying to be level handed, your own governmemt seem not to care very much to tackle, however point 7 and 8 above are valid. Let me remind you, Haitians are not going to leave DR on their own may be some, unless there are incentive in place, laws, and aggreement in the books, anything else is a non starter.
Written by: etiennc01, 24 Oct 2009 10:03 PM
From: United States
tienes que" mirar bueno "a las dos caras de josean."Dr Henry Jekyll and Mr Edward Hyde"
josean is the most dangerous actor in the movie NIGHTMARE IN DOMINICAN TODAY.
Very slick and conniving .an agitator by excellence worse than the lunatics carlos franco and vacanos who has instigated more fights here than any other postsrs.
Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 10:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio that is not my solution, is riosm's. I am just pointing that if that solution is American or European, besides expensive, it is not working, given the millions of illegal aliens they have.

An of course the Haitians are not going to leave voluntarily, of stop coming while the situation in Haiti remain the same or gets worse, that is why I fear that terrible things are in store for both of us. Dominicans and pacific and tolerant, but there will be a point where survival will be at stake.
Written by: Micaela, 24 Oct 2009 10:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
antonioj: Josean THE SH?T JUST HIT THE FAN rightly so, it always been wise to wait and investigate the facts before rushing to judgment, that put a whole new twist to the story now.

http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=119227


I wonder if Roselio Hernández is a Jesuits, but regardless he is not a good Dominican. The least you would expect is that having that knowledge he would go to the media and denounce the situation before, not to wait for a tragedy to occur, to Haitians, to open his mouth.

Besides it's very estrange that the priest knows better that the Haitian tree cutter. He talked a lot about the tree cutting, how many they were, how they divide they work, how many times they had been here doing the same, etc., but never mentioned any connection to any Dominican or talked about being paid for one. Maybe the belly wound affected his brain or his memory.

Written by: JRRubirosa, 24 Oct 2009 10:51 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Micaela:

Thanks for your constructive, unbiased and rational comments; on my opinion wouldn't be surprise if the same priest is related to the same pedophile association with Regino Marti
nez which is another fake priest.

Haitians violated our space and now they want to play the only role which is the victim and
the only suitable and mediocre one !
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 12:03 AM
From: United States
Presidente Fernández inaugura obras en Jimaní a un costo de RD$400 millones

El presidente Leonel Fernández. 4:11 PM Jimaní.- El presidente Leonel Fernández inauguró este sábado en la provincia Independencia la construcción del puente sobre el río Blanco y su canalización a un costro de más de 400 millones de pesos.

De su lado, el sacerdote Roselio Díaz Heredia, quien tuvo a su cargo la bendición de las obras, invocó una oración para que Dios ilumine al Presidente y pueda resolver todas las necesidades de la provincia Independencia, incluyendo la implementación de un mecanismo para la preservación de los recursos naturales en la región.

http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=119228

Micaela states:

"I wonder if Roselio Hernández is a Jesuits, but regardless he is not a good Dominican."

Apparenty he is a good enough Domincan for yor presidente LIE-onel Fernandez!

Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 1:27 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"I wonder if Roselio Hernández is a Jesuits, but regardless he is not a good Dominican"

Micaela what qualify someone as a good Dominican ? I was under the impression DR is a mozaic made of all mixes, and I must add divergence of opinion as well. I think any law abiding Dominicans should respected regardless of their origins or opinions, wont you agree ?
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:59 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Last week 5 Haitians violated 3 Russian tourists in Punta Cana and I guess They were 5 little angels that can't be touched because They are Haitians, blacks, have human rights and are
discriminated and prosecuted !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:59 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Last week 5 Haitians violated 3 Russian tourists in Punta Cana and I guess They were 5 little angels that can't be touched because They are Haitians, blacks, have human rights and are
discriminated and prosecuted !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:59 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Last week 5 Haitians violated 3 Russian tourists in Punta Cana and I guess They were 5 little angels that can't be touched because They are Haitians, blacks, have human rights and are
discriminated and prosecuted !
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:59 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Last week 5 Haitians violated 3 Russian tourists in Punta Cana and I guess They were 5 little angels that can't be touched because They are Haitians, blacks, have human rights and are
discriminated and prosecuted !
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:38 AM
From: United States
8,000 DOSISCompletan ciclo de vacunación contra la rabia


Rubi you should get vaccinated immediately although it may be to late for you already!


http://www.listindiario.com/app/article.aspx?id=119063
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 10:06 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Rubi can you point me to the story ? strange it did not make headline at DT, if they found guilty they deserve the death penality.
Written by: etiennc01, 25 Oct 2009 11:41 AM
From: United States
Over the week end , I had the chance to discover Ms. Alernis Sosa.
What a beautiful , inteliigent, and talented morena !
It was very refreshing and recomforting to see the other breeds that the DR has produced from the wicked, the ugly,the evil, the intolerant,the fearful ones that monopolized DT with their constant winning,intrigues and diatribes (They know who they are)
Written by: Micaela, 25 Oct 2009 11:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic
josean, From: United States
"Apparenty he is a good enough Domincan for yor presidente LIE-onel Fernandez!"

And you are surprised that for the president than keeps our borders wide open, doesn't implement a rational immigration policy, or at least a massive deportation program, allows government agencies to employ illegals and I suppose pay them less, doesn't goes after the Dominicans violators of 80/20 employment law, a Jesuits or proHaitians priest is good enough?
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 11:46 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dear friend Antonioj:


http://www.elnacional.com.do/naci....s-de-violar-a-tres-turistas-rusas

Regards,
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 11:47 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

I'm sick already so you right is too late for me !
Written by: Micaela, 25 Oct 2009 11:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic
antonioj, From: Canada, home safe

"Micaela what qualify someone as a good Dominican ? I was under the impression DR is a mozaic made of all mixes, and I must add divergence of opinion as well. I think any law abiding Dominicans should respected regardless of their origins or opinions, wont you agree ?"

A good Dominican is the one that knowing that the law is violated, our natural resources devastated, would denounce the situation, from the pulpit if you wish, but not keep quiet until Haitians are affected. And I agree, that describe a good Dominican, law abiding, regardless of his/her origins or opinions, but if you know a law is being violated and the dire consequences for your beloved country, and don't do anything about, it may even make you an accomplice
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 12:16 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Haitians will never listen, learn or correct from past mistakes since They continue pushing Dominicans to react in a negative and repulsive way against them:

http://www.elnuevodiario.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=172928

This is why I supported 100% the lyinching, burning and decapitation since I don't think they won't
abide, obey and respect Dominican Republic laws.
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 2:07 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 11:46 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Dear friend Antonioj:


http://www.elnacional.com.do/naci....s-de-violar-a-tres-turistas-rusas

Regards,
"
Thank you
Totally unacceptable, they should served hard time and be deported. So far I am concerned a woman body is sacred and if violated nothing suit less than the ultimate punishment.
Written by: etiennc01, 25 Oct 2009 2:30 PM
From: United States
The sad side of this story was that the Haitians got killed and burned by the same Dominican -Haitian mafia that picked up of the streets in the jeeps and hired them to chop trees and make charcoal to be sold in Haiti.
Guesss who are profiting from this business?
Soon the whole truth will come out and the cynical apologists here in DT that do the PR willl also be exposed and denounced.
One has to be naive to beleive hat the Haitians are acting on their own :cutting trees and making charcoal without the direct supervison of a Haitian-Dominican mafia.
Just as they enter the country without any help from the same Haitian-Dominican mafia.
Wake up you the naive !
And you , the pseudo patriots , you will be exposed !

Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 2:46 PM
From: United States
"And you , the pseudo patriots , you will be exposed !"

Take that Rubi and pepe32!
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 4:20 PM
From: United States
Belly,
Sorry if I offended you Brother that was never my intention either. Your right I never lived in the DR, born there and raised in California. As many on this forum I'm very concerned about the DR and it's future. I just input what I though would be a good Idea on the Illegal Emigration problems in the DR that's all.

Micaela,
Considering the size of the U.S Mexican Border. The Illegal's aren't just from Mexico either.The U.S has the resources to win but an unwilling & uncommitted Prez. He's still on election mode [never to early] individual States have called up there Nation Guard units for National Security, it's estimated that only around 60% of the U.S Illegals come for a better life the other 40% are just criminals.
I'll leave you with this if the DR does not take this problem serous the DR will surely be the next Mexico.
more to come.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 4:34 PM
From: United States
"The U.S has the resources to win but an unwilling & uncommitted Prez"

Belly,

What happen when the “TOUGH” cowboys from Texas and Wyoming (Bush and Cheney) were in charge for eight years?
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 4:39 PM
From: United States
Micaela,
Here's some more solutions...since the DR is strapped for cash.
1. Why not have the Dominican Army conduct it's military exercises on the Border with Haiti.
2. Why not construct new Army bases on the border.
3. Why not have the Dominican Navy conduct there Naval Military exercises off the Northern and Southern Coast with Haiti.
4. Why not have the Dominican Air Force conduct there Ariel operations near the Haitian border.
5. Why not have the Dominican Gov. just declare a one mile buffer zone east of the Border with Haiti from Pipillo Salcedo to Pedernales.
The real question is WHY, WHY, WHY NOT !
I'll repeat...if something is done sooner then later...DR the next MEXICO.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 4:48 PM
From: United States
riosm,

If we move all our military assets to the “Western Front” who is going to protect us from the invading hordes of Puerto Ricans via El Canal De La Mona?

We are either going to become Haitians or Puerto Ricans we are Doomed, Tego Calderon will be our President!
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 4:49 PM
From: United States
"Josen Da Chosen"
I was wondering when you would join our happy shat.
Just think...if an Illegal can cross the U.S Border, maybe next time if a terrorist crosses over, he may wanna just shake hands with Oh'Blama or maybe HOPE for a Beer Bash at the White House Garden. Times have CHANGEd.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 4:54 PM
From: United States
riosm,

I thought you Republicans started two wars” so we could fight them over-there, so we wouldn't have to fight the over-here?”

"Times have CHANGEd."

They sure have, we now have brains in the Whitehouse!
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 5:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

What happen when the “TOUGH” cowboys from Texas and Wyoming (Bush and Cheney) were in charge for eight years?

Everybody here in Texas knew Bush/Cheney were not cut to lead see here in Texas the power of the state is held by the people so is doesn't matter who is in charge for the state to be in good shape economically. Unlike CA where politicians control everything and the people have no saying in anything and it shows how bad they have managed the budget. Here in Texas you can put Leonel in charge and still will end up with a good economy because here politician have 2 choices they 1. serve the people interest 2. they get voted out of office. Simple as that. Now if DR starts behaving more like Texas we won't just be the leader of the caribbean we could be the leader of Central America and who knows what comes after that if we know to play the cards and use our strategic position to gain. But we don't have politicians with a stratergy to pull it off
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 6:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

If you check the history of the Republican party not what you are seeing these days Republican have been the party of peace and the ones willing to end wars and remove military bases around the world. That's what fiscal conservative is all about but now days even though both parties claim to be different is hard to tell by the choices they make when voting.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 6:21 PM
From: United States
If Texans are so smart how did you wind up with two “Rocket Scientists” like Junior Bush and Rick Perry for governors?
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 6:26 PM
From: United States
"the history of the Republican party"

You mean under Abe Lincoln, because since Richard Nixon it ahs become a neo fascist party!
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 6:30 PM
From: United States
Here I agree 100%!

"even though both parties claim to be different is hard to tell by the choices they make when voting."

Gore Vidal says what you need in the US is not a third party but a second party. Because we only have one party with two right wings called, the Republicans and the Democrats!
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

If Texans are so smart how did you wind up with two “Rocket Scientists” like Junior Bush and Rick Perry for governors?

If you check out the states that are doing good today even with a reccession going you will find out Texas is in the top 2 out of 50 with a such call dumb Rick Perry as you think. I wish DR had somebody as dumb as Rick Perry as president today. So ask your self how does such a large state with a so call dumb gorvernor is doing so good economically way pass every other smart gorvernors in other state think about it. If you visit Houston and see how the system works here you will find out that politicians don't need to be scientist to move it forward they just need the will and common sense economic policies and everything else falls in place.
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 7:08 PM
From: United States
Belly, you are heading down a slippery slope on here my friend. Texas is not as great as you think, even though it has some of the most rich natural resources and size in the union, it still fairing much worse than smaller states such as MA,NJ,NY,CONN, Belly why do you think that your beloved TEX with all of it conservative fiscal views still receives about 60 cents to the dollar form the Feds. You guys love to talk about the FEDS, then pay more taxes and become more productive and contribute more to the country via taxes.

Why does TEX needs so much aid from the FEDS? I really wonder, let me se Belly, oh, TEX has one of the least educated population in the union and it has one of the least diverse industrial base in the Union. Let me tell you in the right order who pays the most taxes and receives the least money back from the FEDS: NJ, CA, NY, CONN, MA, PENN, all liberal states, so yes we the liberal states are paying heck of a lot more than the neocon states such as, TEX,,
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 7:12 PM
From: United States
FL, MISS, GA,LA and other fiscal conservative states. Yeah, Belly, keep your Texas and I keep my New York, and yes we never complaint about paying more taxes than you and on top of that giving you guys in TEX some our revenue base via THE FEDS, yes your enemy.

Belly, do me a favor, write a letter to Perry asking him to reject all Federal aid and request to pay equal to the smaller states from the north next year. I'll love to see his response to such request. I am sure that you are benefiting from some of those high taxes that I pay up here in the north.

Finally, NJ gets about 15 cents per dollar back from the FEDS, making it the states that pays the most to the fed and get the least back.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:23 PM
From: United States
Thanks dagatn,

I was leading him to a slow slaughter but you eloquently jumped the gun and went right for the jugular!
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
dagtan

So you are saying that the fiscal conservative states are putting the smarter state in the hole they dug up for them selves. Do you know the reason the Fed Gov exist in the first place.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:26 PM
From: United States
Belly,

Do you want to secede from the union like Ricky Perry?
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 7:28 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Belly admit it you have been owned again !!! move on to the next chapter.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

I was born and raised in DR and whether Texans want to do that's up to them is does not include me in it but saying that other state are smarter and are now going bankrrupt kind of makes you think who in reality is smarter when it comes to handling and playing the cards don't you think?
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
AntonioJ

Why do you like to tag alone others. I would really like to hear your opinion on this and from you.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:35 PM
From: United States
Belly,

So you’re out of the closet in Houston and in while in San Francisco, I mean as a conservative of course?

Is that better Shakespeare?
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

Can you translate that in English or spanish please.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:38 PM
From: United States
Belly,

You can only go bankrupt when you have resources to lose, so Texas has nothing to worry about!
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:42 PM
From: United States
"I was born and raised in DR and whether Texans want to do that's up to them is does not include me'

So you are just freeloading of the goodness of the Texans like a Haitian in DR?
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

So you are just freeloading of the goodness of the Texans like a Haitian in DR?

No i'm not. Here is why i pay more in taxes than i have ever received from USA and i'm not here illegally either. So that's a big difference i contribute more than i get from the state if DR can bring more people like me into USA we probably wouldn't need a visa to come in because i am a plus to USA not a minus like some people here. by the way i pay for my own health insurance too.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 7:49 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGwsf2o8oQ&feature=related#

Yesterday We celebrated Rafael Leonidas Trujillo Birthday so in his memory
We are posting this glorious video.

"QUE VIVA EL JEFE HASTA LA MUERTE"
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 7:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

Do you know the reason USA opens the doors to Canada and closes the door to Mexico well if you use the common sense practices there is because Canada has citizens that are plus to the economy.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:52 PM
From: United States
"So that's a big difference i contribute more than i get from the state "

What are you an altruistic missionary?
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:55 PM
From: United States
error
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 7:55 PM
From: United States
And he also had Haitian blood Rubi, so which part of scum bag are you celebrating!
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 8:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

What are you an altruistic missionary?

Well I do voluntary work when i have time at local level. I try to help the community i live in starting from my neightboors and going from there. See i try to be a plus to the community.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:07 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

This is where your HAITIAN blood is weak and full of excrement because you always want to take
credit from what doesn't belong to you by heritage, lineage or blood.

On the 2nd round look how pathetic, lack of personality, narrow minded and messed up Haitians
like you are that always hide behind an unknown race, name and credentials to me that is like having your brain and your arse connected.

Like the French expert that was in DR few weeks ago and said tha Haitians have a nationality, personality issue since They don't know Where They going and this is the main reasson little
worm why you feel so embarrased about posting like a human being with a personality.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:07 PM
From: United States
A blast from the past for Rubi and all the other closet Trujillistas at DT!


DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: One Little Word

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,866711,00.html
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:11 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Why You have to react like a sissy when being confronted about your nationality; at least take like a man and say that you are an Haitian instead of being some dumb !
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 8:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

You really sound like you know your stuff but i have to laught at your statements above because the fiscal years report says a whole different story than the you are putting up here. So you know here is a link to the USA Official fiscal number that prove you have gone down a ditch alone with those tagging with you. read this and open your eyes to the reality.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/fas-08.pdf
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/20....jobs-dont-always-go-hand-in-hand/
http://matadorchange.com/us-state-to-nation-gdp-comparison/
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:21 PM
From: United States
Here is another gift for the Trujillistas:

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Gaudiest Dictator


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,886652-2,00.html
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:24 PM
From: United States
Rubi,

If Trujillo is so great why isn't he buried in DR?
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:28 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Are you thinking like an HAITIAN or a common sense human being ?

Is like me asking you how come Haitians had never killed Baby doc Duvalier
since He is still alived in France!

At least Dominicans had the guts to kill Trujillo but Haitians are chickens and sisies ; the
proof is you that feel ashamed about your nationality !
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:33 PM
From: United States
Rubi,

I truly hope you don't have a wife or children and if you do, that they never find out you true identity!
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 8:38 PM
From: United States
Belly I am very happy that you posted the chart for the 2008 fiscal year. As always i do not know why you simply refuse to go one step further in your investigations. Here are the numbers per capital between NJ and TEX, now I live in NY, so did not bothered to tally those numbers. Now belly, your beloved state of TEX got approx $4,600 per capital from the FEDS in 2008 and NJ got apporx $4,800 per capital from the FEDS in 2008. Now these numbers are based on the document that you used, so now Belly, do me a favor and go back to the IRS and find out how much income tax the state of NJ paid to the FEDS for the 2008 and how much did the state of TEX paid in income tax to the FEDS during the same period. Once you see this number, your questions will be answered.

I give a little example, IF i paid 40k in income tax and get $4,800 back and you paid 25k and get $4,600 back, who got more from the FEDS. Your document shows TEX even getting more, Belly.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:39 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

Do you have a personality or not ??
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 8:45 PM
From: United States
JR, you are one sick puppy. So after finding out that Trujillo your beloved Jefe had haitian blood in him or might have even be closer to be half haitian, you come and say that at least Dominicans had balls to kill him. But I thought that he was your hero.

JR, I have no problem with trujillo having haitian or african blood in him, since we all have a little and some us have more. I am not white, so i consider myself black, even though in DR they say that I am trigueno or indio (confusing as hell). Give it up JR, Josean got you by the balls, give up, your looking sicker than what you really are.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:48 PM
From: United States
Rubi,

Maybe this is closer to your home, but please don't delay, call and get some help before its too late mi hermano!

Shore Psychiatric Center
maps.google.com - (631) 447-7560
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 8:51 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Belly, you do have a bad habit of jumping to a four gun conclusion and get owned severals times. I do not mean to embarrass you, I am only enunciating the facts. Thanks for your offer, I do not want to tag along, for your information I only debate matter which I have full knowledge with statics and url link that would backup my stance.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 8:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

Did you take into consideration that Texas economy is almost 3 times that of NJ right but i'm sure you playing around this to win a argument here.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 8:53 PM
From: United States
"those tagging with you."

Now Belly, I always thought you were a gentleman that was below the belt!
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 8:54 PM
From: United States
Belly, did you read those spread sheets before posting them, they only make my argument stronger, take them off. As you can see your grand state of TEX paid less taxes and got more back in 2005 than in 10 years ago. TEX got 94 (I believe, need to 2x check) to NJ 62 and NY 72, Belly we are still paying heck of a lot more and compare to TEX's size and resources it gets worse.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 8:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

Now lets get this clear and simple

Which state has a stronger economy NJ or TX? Please don't dance around the question and answer one or the other.

Read this and answer the question for your self.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/25501959
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 8:58 PM
From: United States
Belly, yes, so why are we in the north paying more than souther states, including TEX? Belly, please understand that you made a bad judgement and you can always be a gentleman and admit that you stand corrected. It had happened to me in the past, we are not perfect. I am not here to offend anyone, Belly, just sharing information.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 8:59 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean and Dagtan:

Let me please to have the pleasure to watch in these posts that you are 2 little "CREOLE" pets full of Dessalines messed up blood that are so screwed up and retarded about your nationalities that you feel inferior to everybody else.

I always respect Antonioj and Etiennc because at least They are truly "Haitian" gentlemen" and whether I don't agree with them or not at least they have the BALLS to be men not faggots like you guys !
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:03 PM
From: United States
Belly, if we talk about today, you are right, since Tex's raw materials makes it a power house that can actually become its own country. However, Tex will not fare better than NY, NJ, CA, MA in the 21st economy and the expansion of globalism. Belly, these states are preparing their people for jobs that have not even been invented yet and industries that have not even been created. If you look back 20 years, when there was talk about green jobs and the future. If you look these states dominates in those areas today and set to become the leaders in such industries and the industries of the future.

Tex needs to invest more i their educational system and prepare its people to move away from raw materials and services.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:05 PM
From: United States
Rubi,

You’re really losing it I will try to get you a 800 number to reputable psychiatric hospital in a moment!
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

Let me make it clear to you because this is the second time you get confuse by my statement and jump into a conclusion. This conversation was started by me and Josean talking about the strong economy of Texas and how well they manage the public's money. What i have clearly been talking about and if you go back to the first statement of this conversation is how well Texas is managed when it comes to money and that i wish in DR we had politicians managing money this ways but some how you went off track and now confusing the conversation that i started. In my opinion the reason you have a governor is because he should be looking out after their own local people right? so Texas may put less money per person but when volume is taken into consideration then NJ is not even close.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:12 PM
From: United States
Belly,

Just for you!


Despite Its Woes, California's Dream Still Lives

By Michael Grunwald Friday, Oct. 23, 2009

California, you may have heard, is an apocalyptic mess of raging wildfires, soaring unemployment, mass foreclosures and political paralysis. It's dysfunctional. It's ungovernable. Its bond rating is barely above junk. It's so broke, it had to hand out IOUs while its leaders debated how many prisoners to release and parks to close. Nevada aired ads mocking California's business climate to lure its entrepreneurs. The media portray California as a noir fantasyland of overcrowded schools, perpetual droughts, celebrity breakdowns, illegal immigration, hellish congestion and general malaise, captured in headlines like "Meltdown on the Ocean" and "California's Wipeout Economy" and "Will California Become America's First Failed State?" Actually, it won't.

Continued:
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

Is funny you say Texas needs to move away from raw material but US News week had this to say about Texas being placed in 4th as the best state to own a business.

" Texas. Globalization has made it possible for entrepreneurs to serve markets in not just their immediate community, region, or country but the whole world. If your ambition is that encompassing, Texas might be a good place to start. Texas has the most globe-focused manufacturing sector in the country, with export sales at $69,268 per worker—the highest of any state"
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:13 PM
From: United States
Ignore the California whinery. It's still a dream state. In fact, the pioneering megastate that gave us microchips, freeways, blue jeans, tax revolts, extreme sports, energy efficiency, health clubs, Google searches, Craigslist, iPhones and the Hollywood vision of success is still the cutting edge of the American future — economically, environmentally, demographically, culturally and maybe politically.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1931582,00.html
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:13 PM
From: United States
Ok, Belly, my apologies for changing the subject, no hard feelings here Belly. At the end of the day you and i are two immigrants, since i was not born here either and migrated at the age of 14 maybe a little older than you, not sure if older age wise though.
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 9:18 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Dagtan and Josean you guys need to start learning creole
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:19 PM
From: United States
Belly, I can also prove my point when it comes to job creation and their sophistication, if you want to go down this road again, i am most happy. Yes, Belly, but check what Tex's forte is and in which areas. Tex export a huge amount of natural resources and manufacturing, while NY, NJ and others export information and virtual capital. It is only natural that if you want to own your business Tex is easier than those high skilled markets since you can open a service base business or small manufacturing or a niche parts maker or servicer and make money. This is not so easy to do in a NY, NJ, MA, CONN AND CA since these states are way past that stage.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:20 PM
From: United States
Belly,

Meanwhile in TEXAS, Ricky Perry still will not allow an investigation to see if he sent and innocent man to his death!
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:22 PM
From: United States
Josean, with all those problems, California is still the richest state in the union by far.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:25 PM
From: United States
Belly,

In case you missed it:

Is Rick Perry Delaying Investigation Into Death Penalty Case for Political Purposes?

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.c....y-delaying-investigation-death-pe
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

Those great news but if we look at reality CA have lost in a lot of those markets that you have mentioned there because most are no longer produced inside CA i.e. The microchip giant Intel moved a lot of their fabrication to Costa Rica, The iphone (by the way i have one) is only designed in CA and produced in China(read the label in the back), Hollywood is not a film making industry anymore is a film marketing industry now ( http://www.webfilmschool.com/video/WFS13.htm ) and most of the loans to make the movies are coming from China now. See most people need to understand that unless you design,produce and sale a product you will not get off the ground. See what made USA strong before was that simple business method Design,produce and sale to the world but now E.U Designs China. Produces and USA Buys and if we have look at the news the only country with 2.8 TRILLIONs Dollars in the bank is the guy in the middle(China).
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:30 PM
From: United States
If I am not mistaken, if California were an independent country it would rank at about the six largest economy in the world!
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:32 PM
From: United States
Belly,

So your challeging Michael Grunwald's story?
Written by: dagtan, 25 Oct 2009 9:32 PM
From: United States
Belly, the itune University is amazing. Try it one day, they have really expanded and have a huge catalog of documents and videos.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
dp
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

Why do you think USA has a 11 trillion dollar deficit and China 2.8 trillion surplus have you ever asked your self that question?

See i love USA that's why i have to point out what it is doing wrong and not hide it to make it look like it doesn't exist.
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:38 PM
From: United States
Belly,

And where is China going to spend that 2,8 tri?
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
dp
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:43 PM
From: United States
Belly,

This recession was predicted before that and guess by who?
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Josean

If you go to Youtube and search for Peter Schiff the only guy that in 2005 predicted the reccession that we are living today and most so call economist joke about him saying that but guess what he was the only and first one to say.


And where is China going to spend that 2,8 tri?

Well if you ask me that's a good position to be in. I much rather ask my self where do i spend all this money than where do i get the money to pay for all these late bills. I'm sure they are very creative and smart enought to know where to spend it and get interest back from it LOL they were smart enought to find a way to save it right?
Written by: JRRubirosa, 25 Oct 2009 9:45 PM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Josean:

plz read some good English business magazines or the wall street journal daily, China is buying natural resources all over the planet to protect their future empire, 20 years from now China is going
to be the new USA !
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 9:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Anyways we can take this whole conversation about economics into the forum this topic is about La isla de Santo Domingo right?
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:49 PM
From: United States
Rubi,

For God's sake man don't delay it, check yourself in!
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 9:55 PM
From: United States
Belly,

The man who predict this almost 30 years ago was George Herbert Walker Bush when he called supply sided, trickle down, in essence Reganomics, "voodoo economics!"

Now the economic chickens have come home to roost!



While running against Reagan for the Presidential nomination in 1980, George Bush had derided Reaganomics as "voodoo economics".
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 9:58 PM
From: United States
Josean Da Chosen,
"Brains in the white House" Your right, He's using his brains/ intelligence to bankrupt the U.S Economy while on the path to radical Socialistic CHANGE.....after He's done it will be known as CHUMP CHANGE, Oh'Blama the "Robbin Hood" President, and to think 10 years ago nobody even knew who he was or is.
What happened to Gitmo ?
What happened to Oh'Blamacare ?
What happened to Cap 'n trade "
A new Stimulus on DA way, forget reading "Just sign on the dotted line".
Just to remind you it's Oh'Blama's War now !
By the way, have you ever wondered why your one term Prez. hates Fox news ?
Could it be his egotistic Nature ?
Written by: josean, 25 Oct 2009 10:01 PM
From: United States
Glen is that you?
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 10:06 PM
From: United States
Belly,
Your right....... I just hope Haiti doesn't take the Oh'Blama road.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 10:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan
Ok, Belly, my apologies for changing the subject, no hard feelings here Belly. At the end of the day you and i are two immigrants, since i was not born here either and migrated at the age of 14 maybe a little older than you, not sure if older age wise though.

No hard feelings here and i you stated we are just 2 immigrants in this country. I never take anything said here personally and hope you don't either because i'm just here to learn from others and teach what i know so we all become more aware of the world around. I have always like to keep my eyes open to everything that surrounds me.
Written by: Belly, 25 Oct 2009 10:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
AntonioJ
Belly, you do have a bad habit of jumping to a four gun conclusion and get owned severals times. I do not mean to embarrass you, I am only enunciating the facts. Thanks for your offer, I do not want to tag along, for your information I only debate matter which I have full knowledge with statics and url link that would backup my stance.

I didn't jump into any conclusion here as you can see by the statement above by Dagtan it was all a confusion that got carried away so i didn't get owned as you said we were talking about 2 different topics and you automatically asummed i was getting owned so who is jumping into conclusions here You or Me?
Written by: ambioriv, 25 Oct 2009 10:37 PM
From: United States
People taking the law into their own hands.
Written by: ambioriv, 25 Oct 2009 10:38 PM
From: United States
These men should be given medals of honor, the ones that should be taken to jail are the politicians using the Haitians in sugar canes as slaves and giving them incentive to come over the border.
Written by: ambioriv, 25 Oct 2009 10:47 PM
From: United States
These men should be given medals of honor, the ones that should be taken to jail are the politicians using the Haitians in sugar canes as slaves and giving them incentive to come over the border.
Written by: antonioj, 25 Oct 2009 11:27 PM
From: Canada, home safe
woa belly, honesty is the best policy, ok my friend all right 2 different policies.
Written by: riosm, 25 Oct 2009 11:34 PM
From: United States
"Josean Da Chosen"
Sean Penn is THAT YOU ?
Hows Polosi the Botak Queen doing ?
Was the face the only place?
I could see it now, the Haitian Gov. following Oh'Blamanomics take from the poor then give to the dirt poor, that's enough to make even you proud Huh ! maybe with HOPE or luck Oh'Blama will give you a free pass to Disney World Orlando, Florida too.
Are you posting from California, NYC or Washington state ?
Written by: xwill7, 26 Oct 2009 10:46 AM
From: United States, Chicago
xmas is right around the corner... people will forget about this when they see the lechon azado
Written by: vacanos, 26 Oct 2009 11:00 AM
From: United States
antonito "Vacanos, Do not worry I will stand up for your rights in the usa too, I am not telling you what to do, I am telling what you are not doing, do you think there's a difference ? I will let it , up to you to figure it out, in the mean time, vete festejar el muerto de 4 Haitianos con los socio tuyo.disgusting !! psst since you are civilized and have such a respect for human life make sure you pass these attributes to your beautiful wife and children, they will grow up to be great citizens one day they will make you proud, for the ethics, the morals and value you have enticed on them."

Anotnito sabeto you had never been to the USA let alone stand for my right in this country. So why do you bother telling me a lie from the get go to express your point? I stand for my right given to me in the US constitution thru the first, four, five, six, eight and 14 amendments. I pay more in taxes here than what the Canadian government gives you as a pest for them.
Written by: vacanos, 26 Oct 2009 11:01 AM
From: United States
I'm not celebrating anything here I am stating the reality of my homeland which the Haitians is doing everything in their power to destroy.
cont- This is a Dominican site for us to bend and discuss about our country you are welcome, Haitian as well as your other compatriots but if you don't like our point of view you are free to leave. You as a Haitian believe that we Dominican should bend over and accept destiny of destruction to my country at the hand of the backward people. I say no antonito I stand with Duarte and the Trinitario. What I’m stating here is no difference than them.

What are doing talking about ethic and values? If only you mean that then you will go to your beloved Ahiti and teaches your compatriot that are very much in need of a guidance.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 12:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Muchachos no le hagan tanto caso a la recua de pitis que el diablo los cría y ellos se juntan.

Dagtan y Josean apenas saben Español y están totalmente desconectados de la realidad Dominicana y por lo visto también de la realidad de EEUU .Es obvio que los Haitianos sinceros van a apoyar a los encubiertos y la quinta columna de vendepatrias .

Pero estos seres no solo son traidores a RD sino que en el caso de EEUU apoyan y ven con buenos ojos todos los enemigos de EEUU o sea que son traidores por naturaleza .

Al final del día lo que ellos digan no tiene importancia porque seremos nosotros los Dominicanos los que determinaremos nuestro destino contra viento y marea como siempre lo hemos hecho y a los traidores les toca siempre el desprecio mas grande ya que estos son seres sin Patria que es lo mismo que no tener alma.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 12:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
pepe32, en verdad que hasta yo puedo sentir tu alegria. que gracioso, verdad pepe32? Por que tu no cominezas una propaganda indicando que el GRAN DAGTAN, fallo en dos palabras que tu hijita puede escribir sin ningun problema.

Muchachito,no me da alegría tan poca cosa sino que te debería dar vergüenza que dizque llegaste a los 14 años y ya te olvidaste de tus raíces y el que no conoce de donde viene esta perdido siempre por eso vives en EEUU y admiras al asesino Che Guevara ,clara señal de hipocresía e incongruencia .

Corres cuando sabes que no tienes argumentos y solo puedes entrar con tu perrito faldero porque sabes que en el fondo aquí estas en territorio extranjero ya que solo tu perrito y los Haitianos te apoyan .Estas tan desconectado con la realidad Dominicana que pataleas como imbécil cuando se te presenta la verdad ya que en tu mente desneuronizada no cabe mas que la basura afrocentrista que te metieron en las aulas de gueto con profesores marxistas.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 12:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Siento ponértelo difícil escribiendo en un idioma extranjero para ti ,tu mascota y los piti pero no se puede ser verdaderamente Dominicano y no saber Español .
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 12:33 PM
From: United States
So many words and nothing to say!
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 12:41 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Vacanos, you are deceptive...however you are entertaining. The common thread among you nationalist is the uncontrollable urge to obfuscate, humility is not part of your mentra nor I was under any illusions.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 12:51 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Pepe32 you need to take a bigger chill pill and stop embarrassing yourself in your childish attempt to undermine 2 fellow dominicans with diverge view.
Written by: vacanos, 26 Oct 2009 1:44 PM
From: United States
antonito "Vacanos, you are deceptive...however you are entertaining. The common thread among you nationalist is the uncontrollable urge to obfuscate, humility is not part of your mentra nor I was under any illusions."


Left you speechless antonito?

Deceptive? Please allow me to understand you in Patua or your little bit of Spanish. Maybe that way you will make more sense :) like wink wink

Humility? What do you know about that word? The problem with us Dominicans is that we have a huge heart in all of us. We see the suffering the Haitians people are going thru but we think of their need first before our needs. I was one of those naive Dominicans like many other who used to give them, clothes, money, food, ECT before I realized their purpose in our country.


Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 1:48 PM
From: United States
vcanos come join us, thats if you can handle the truth!


http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....-Dominican--Haitian-crime-cartels
Written by: vacanos, 26 Oct 2009 1:49 PM
From: United States
antonito "Pepe32 you need to take a bigger chill pill and stop embarrassing yourself in your childish attempt to undermine 2 fellow dominicans with diverge view."


If we had more "Dominicans" like Jossie and Dogtan during our independence against Haiti then the entire Española would had been covered in dessert by now. If you know what I mean :) like wink wink

So please save your saliba telling us that those two knuclehead are Dominican.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 1:52 PM
From: United States
pepe32, you are missing two very basic components of what an argument is, those are: content and context, go look them up and rewrite your posts based on the guidelines that are clearly established. So basically you wasted your time on a bunch verbiage and did not even get to say one thing.

Finally, pepe32, the main difference between you and I is that I do have a real education based on examaination of conflicts in order to find the best suited solution. YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE THAT START WITH A PERCEPTION AND WORK YOUR WAY DOWN, WHILE I START WITH A PROBLEM AND WORK MY WAY UP.

Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 1:55 PM
From: United States
glen'

I didn't know you were into Harleys:


http://www.custom-choppers-guide.com/knucklehead.html


Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 1:58 PM
From: United States
"on a bunch verbiage"

Does that translate into Spanish as baboso?

Written by: vacanos, 26 Oct 2009 2:06 PM
From: United States
jossie "Does that translate into Spanish as baboso?:"


Como te gusta esa palabra BABOSO :)
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan ,puedes presumir de lo que quieras y digo presumir porque tus escritos no muestran ni una décima de la educación que dices tener pero puedes decir misa y solo quedarías como un traidor cualquiera y por mucho que grites y patalees hueles y hablas como un traidor cualquiera .Lo peor es que presumes tanto y tuerces cada argumento porque la verdad es algo que te disgusta y en este foro los únicos que te apoyan son los Haitianos y tu mascota Josean lo que a una persona racional le daría de que pensar pero tu te sigues autoengañando al decir sandeces y luego hablar de manera elitista .Tu que decías que los Jesuitas tuvieron que ver en la fundación de la RD y luego cuando se demostró el error lo minimizaste ,de nuevo cuando note que no sabias muy bien el Español escribistes que lo sabias mejor que yo para luego cometer errores que mi hija menor no cometería pero admitir errores no es digno de "dioses de sabiduría" de la izquierda.


Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Solo un energúmeno y un hipócrita puede apoyar asesinos(Che ,Fidel etc) y luego venir a llorar por los "Derechos humanos" pero así de sinverguenzas son los de la izquierda .

Conmigo se te "pelo el billete" porque ni en Ingles ni en Español te dejaré esparcir tu estiércol sin respuesta y que conste que sé bastante Francés e incluso el pseudo idioma de los Piti lo entiendo bastante.

Por eso aunque no concuerdo con algunos puntos de mi compatriota Rubirosa ni treinta como tu y Josean harían un Dominicano porque ustedes venden la Patria sin pensarlo ya que la baja naturaleza es parte intrínseca de ustedes .

Juan Pablo Duarte daría vueltas en su tumba de saber que perros sarnosos quieren deshacer lo que tanto dolor y tanta sangre costó .Por lo menos los Haitianos se les entiende porque hacen lo mejor por su Patria y por su gente defendiendo los intereses Haitianos pero seres traidores no son respetados en ninguna parte porque nadie confía en ellos
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 2:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Se nota que mis preguntas no fueron de tu agrado porque sabes cuales serian las respuestas ,no como las falsas preguntas hechas para apelar a la emoción y dejar las preguntas serias sin contestar.

De haber una encuesta en RD perderías de manera abrumadora y te quedarías sin argumento pero como tienes actuación de mujercita cuando no te gusta el tema lo cambias.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 3:14 PM
From: United States
pepe32, tu solamente necesita unos galones de limon, y el problema esta resuelto.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 4:06 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Veo que en Español el traidor esta limitado a un vocabulario de primaria ....jajajaja

Lo de los limones será algo de bugarrones como Tu y tu perrito faldero pero tu discurso vacío no va a ningun lado conmigo y por lo visto ya los demás saben de que grado de desechos están hechos los traidores como tu.

Revisa tu corazón y compra muchos anti-depresivos porque te van a hacer falta.
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 5:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: vacanos come join us, thats if you can handle the truth!
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....-Dominican--Haitian-crime-cartels

"The business of charcoal obtained from burning trees has become so lucrative that organized rings of Dominican and Haitians compete for its distribution and marketing"

So the reason for the killing was business, no Dominican hatred and racism toward Haitians and all that was said in that light is simply garbage and using the race card to protect Haitians in whatever unlawful activities they engaged in DR.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 5:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Piti Antonio "Let me remind you, Haitians are not going to leave DR on their own "

** We will provide FREE assistance all expenses paid trip on a luxury army truck with paid security !

Piti Josean Gems! "We are either going to become Haitians or Puerto Ricans "

**We prefer Puerto Rico!

Piti Josean "So many words and nothing to say! "

** Unlike all the "eloquence" of "el perrito piti "

Speaking of LIE-onelitas!
Sooner or later the Lie-onelitas come out of the closet!
"Journalist" and Cesar Medina should not be used in the same sentence!
pepe 32 is going to drop you from the Dominican John Birch Society with that kind of spelling anos!
So what is new about this?
Put your shoes on Rubi!
How appropriate the head of the state’s electrical company is using crutches, just like ALL of LIE-onel Fernandez’s economic polices LIMP!
Y no era Pa' Lante Que Ibamos!
¡Del Dicho a Hecho hay mucho Trecho!

Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 5:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
and the latest eloquence from el pitiburro!

"Roses are Red

Violets are Blue

I hate the METRO

And so should You!"
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 5:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I think Josean was rejected by Leonel and is upset that he prefers Margarita!
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 5:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Pepe32 Se nota que mis preguntas no fueron de tu agrado porque sabes cuales serian las respuestas ,no como las falsas preguntas hechas para apelar a la emoción y dejar las preguntas serias sin contestar.

De haber una encuesta en RD perderías de manera abrumadora y te quedarías sin argumento.

Esa encuesta ha sido hecha varias veces, siempre con los mismos resultados. Una de ellas fue hecha por la oficina de Huchi Lora, a final del 2008, no me imagino los numeros ahora, 85 de cada 100 dominicanos querian a los haitianos fuera de DR. Claro que si haces una pregunta cargada "apoyan la violencia contra los haitianos" ese mismo numero respondera que no, porque nosotros no tenemos interes en maltratar a los haitianos, solo los queremos en su pais, no en el nuestro.

Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 6:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Pepe32, "Veo que en Español el traidor esta limitado a un vocabulario de primaria ....jajajaja"

Estas equivocado pepe32, no es de primaria. El dice que emigro a USA a los 14, por bruto que fuera, y el tipo es brillante, tuvo que haber terminado la primaria. Mira un ejemplo de lo que aprendio:

Written by: dagtan, 23 Oct 2009 10:41 PM
From: United States
"Ahi estaba este pajero queriedome vender un coco por $50U.S. como si fuero ingles o gringo, cuando yo le conteste, to esta loco o te hiede el caco, el tipo brinco para hatra y me dice, cono pero si eres de lo mio, dame $20 entonce."

Hace mas de 20 años, habia mucho mas calidad en nuestra educacion y menos estudiantes por aula. Por tanto con ese vocabulario no paso del 3 curso, porque su maestra se hubuera suicidado al leer hatra en lugar de atras y eso no es un error de tecleo.
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2009 6:07 PM
From: United States
pepe32,

Do you want to be the president of my fan club?
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 6:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Micaela ,eso es justamente lo que yo noté ,Dogtan arregló las preguntas con poca sinceridad ya que sabe que hasta algunos de tendencia violenta responderían que no a la violencia para no quedar mal y obviamente todos los que no apoyamos la violencia diríamos que no pero el problema quedaría intacto que es justamente lo que quieren estos personajes anti-Dominicanos.

Ellos pretenden ganar tiempo para luego reclamar derechos de nacionalidad para los Haitianos en RD ,pero ya no es secreto para ninguno de nosotros así es que no le hagan mucho caso a los juegos de distracción y escriban a la prensa en cada oportunidad y si conocen su sindico o a cualquier político déjenle saber la importancia de esto.


Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 6:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
En una encuesta como la que te refieres Micaela serian sobre 95% pero creo que las cosas se definirán por por la violencia ya que el gobierno actual no tiene "los huevos" para enfrentarlo y tendrá que esperar una explosión social de magnitud nunca vista y eso terminará provocando una "retorno voluntario" de millares de Haitianos .

Ojalá el gobierno tome acciones contundentes antes que suceda algo así porque la perdida de sangre inocente seria otra mancha sobre la isla.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I remember a jesuit priest hinted Dominican and Hatians were involved in this cartel, he was automatically branded as a bad Dominican... I ponder how can one be so contradictory yet educated !! ?
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Canada, home safe
edit
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 6:36 PM
From: Canada, home safe
edit
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 7:13 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Pepe, lo que tu no entiendes, no es quién tiene razón o quién está equivocado, pero lo que es correcto. Un día te va a crecer hasta alcanzar un nivel en el que podrá comprender. sin embargo, tu me has manteniendo muy divertido.
Written by: Pepe32, 26 Oct 2009 7:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Pobre ,parece que Josean le esta enseñando Español....


Lo peor es que tampoco escribe bien en Ingles ! pero en fin mucho tiempo perdido con un piti
Written by: Lautaro, 26 Oct 2009 8:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I didn't want to intervene on this squabble, antonioj, but you have to understand that the jesuits haven't done anything to dispel the suspicion that a lot of people in this country (including me) have for them or their agenda here. You see, not once have they taken our side on the different controversies that have surrounded the dominican-haitian issue, NOT ONCE. And what is worse, every time there is a problem on the border provinces, they're automatic in their blaming us for it. In their fanaticism and bias, they tend to forget that there are millions of poor dominicans also deserving their defense, and I mean, MILLIONS. They're making a poor interpretation of the church's "preferential option for the poor", as it is, and this by a very long shot. I'm this close to hating them outright, like dutch freedom fighters of the XVIth century, which had to contend with their hydra represented by jesuistic machinations and spanish military power to defend their national liberties.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 8:32 PM
From: United States
I guess that neither pep32 or micaela have ever recalled a story or anecdotally shared one. Look up the rules of quoting and anecdotalization of stories and hopefully you will one day understand why it was written the way it was. you are both becoming silly and can no longer stand on leg on your petty arguments.

Micaela, any five questions, any, you make them up and lets run them. Hey, i do not live in the DR, so how can even there know more than you who live there, so i charge you with asking the questions. pepe32, if you can handle it without becoming childish, write your own if you can stand the outcome. you will see how out of touch you are with the people which you live among. Get out of the bunker a little more and talk to them and you'll find out what they really want.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 8:33 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Pepe32 dime lo que sucederiá, si simplemente te ignora a usted. Tengo un consejito para usted, seguir hablando spanglish y hacer lo que haces bien, como el plagio (cut and paste) porque la verdad me has dejado muy impresionado con su capacidad de razonar y su inteligencia,..., mira un malandrin como tu no hay dos. je jeje

Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 8:42 PM
From: United States
Lautaro, my friend it seems as if you read my mind on your interesting and very good point of view on your last posting. Lautaro, what is interesting is that a few sundays ago i attended a talk on poverty and injustice at Fordham University, which happens to be the largest Jesuit University in NYS and one of the most powerful in the Union. At the end of the talk i approached the moderator and asked a question or two on the Jesuits and the Dominican issue. I wish I had a recorder and be able to post the audio on here, but I will try my best to quote the priest word by word.

In essence what he said was that the Dominican issue is very complex and it can not and should not be approached unilaterally or unidimensional, meaning that is has many more angles than what people think. He continued to say that religion will naturally gravitate towards the less fortunate and on this particular case the haitians will fit that profile in eyes of religion. Off course, he indicated that the
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 8:50 PM
From: United States
Dominican population was not faring any better, but better than the haitian in comparison. As the conversation continued, he continued to say that he was not in the position to say more than that since he was not on the ground looking at both sides of the conflict.

In those few words he was actually able convey the Jesuits mission in the DR very clearly, they are gravitating towards the haitian ply seems they view them as mistreated and marginalized. They i believe want the problem to be resolved as much as we do on here, but are there to give minimal protection to the haitian population from abuses and unnecessary violence until the issue is resolved.

Finally, I believe that you get it, and I hope that you also understand that they also care for the Dominican population very much. However, they are doing what is exactly asked of them via their beliefs, which is to care for the most needy. As i have said before, just because they are illegals that does not means that their,
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 8:51 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Lat, I do not know the whole story about the Jesuits, I still need to be educated, nontheless I was flabbergasted at the label of "bad dominican" that I was attributed to the priest, further make me wonder when the person making that allegation is the caliber of Miacela, I can understand that these priests may tend to be bias due to the schooling and theology they were endoctrined in, my humble opinion I find it to be out of touch or a long shot to label him " traitor or a bad dominican".
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 8:55 PM
From: United States
lives is worth less than those of native rights. I hope that this situation is resolved with peace and i think that we at times need a neutral party to intervene in these types of issues and the church is not the answer, since by their own essence of morality they must take sides.

Second finally, I for me like to think that I HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOVE MY COUNTRY AND LOVE JUSTICE AS WELL. I FOR LOVE OF COUNTRY SHOULD NOT BE EITHER EXPECTED OR ASKED NOT TO LOVE JUSTICE. In this particular the justice for the DR is the voluntary and forced if necessary deportation via humane means of all illegals haitians from the national territory. By the same token, while they remain illegally in our side, their basic right to life, must be respected above all.
Written by: Lautaro, 26 Oct 2009 9:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
What can I say dag? Great minds think alike. Although I have to confess you that I'm this close to entertaining the fanatical dislike that the dutch had for those priests during their 80 year war of independence, and this is someone who is as tolerating and forgiving as they come. Imagine what the common juancito must be feeling for them. Without knowing it, the jesuits are doing more harm with an open hand than with a clenched fist, cuz' the downtrodden over here will always see their defense of the haitian as elevating the latter at the expense of their plight, making the haitians the unintended targets of the mob's fury, as a result.
Written by: Belly, 26 Oct 2009 9:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Laut

In my opinion these Jesuits just need to keep their mouth shut because instead of helping they are throwing those Dominican who have been very tolerant of the immigration problem of the cliff and their so call good action may just backfire in the end. At the end of the day the problem here is a political problem and so it should be dealt with politically by enforcing the law. These reason are the same reasons that church have been loosing members of this new generation because they don't base their own judgement fair and square. I'm a big believer that church should not get involve in the political area because is just adds more gas to the already hot situation that is unfolding as we speak.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 9:50 PM
From: United States
Belly, I believe that you are looking at the church from a medieval stance. They are getting involved exactly for the reason that you say that they should stay away, which is politics. The jesuits have always gotten involved in political matters and are well connected politically. The church has always and still is the most powerful force in the Dominican political landscape and it will continue to be for generations to come. No other institution is better than the church in adding to an already burning situation.

Lautaro, I share your concerns of the ordinary people, they must be care for and not left vulnerable to the herb of Dominican neanderthals running around inflicting great fear in them about an imminent haitian takeover. the church must address both sides, but also be honest about the information they present, which I think it is the case currently. As you have been able to notice, if the info is not favorable to some, then it is deemed anti dominican. cont,
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 9:56 PM
From: United States
i really want to see when the jesuits will finally require the DR government to act and act quickly on the situation. As you know, the ultimate decision will be made y the church, the DR government desperately need the support of the church in order to carry out that messy operation.

Even if they do it with kid's gloves it will be messy and nasty at times in times like this if you have the support of the church, you are dandy and can continue moving forward with the operation. I believe that Mr. Fernandez knows this very well and is committed to garnish such support before doing anything radical about it.

Finally, the DUTCH are once again firmly in love with their jesuits as everything most past and wounds close, things often return to the good old days.
Written by: Lautaro, 26 Oct 2009 10:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The purpose of putting the dutch case to your attention, dag, was to show you that the jesuits only serve the cause of human rights and/or freedom when this suits their purpose. If it doesn't, then they don't have any qualms in supporting tyranny if this one serves to further their ends, even using the most dirty tricks on the machiavellian book, like schemes of assassination and/or political sabotage, as the murder of the stadtholder William I of Orange-Nassau painfully showed, or their attempts to assassinate his son Maurice, John of Oldenbarneveld, Henry IV of France, Elizabeth I of England, or any other evangelical portentate that opposed their tyranny. I'm with Belly on this, the church should be restricted to their cloisters and monasteries, nothing more, nothing less, cuz', as their track record have shown, whenever the jesuits intervene on a political dispute, tragedy ensues and civilizations die.
Written by: Lautaro, 26 Oct 2009 10:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Another example: Their obstinate support of the devout party in XVIIIth century France, which prevented the politiques of the king's cabinet from carrying out the necessary reforms of the political and economic systems, reforms which perhaps might have prevented the bloody revolution that costed so much blood and destruction on both sides of the Atlantic world, specially on our unfortunate island. They might fool the good natured dutch (something which I really doubt), but we'll be damned the day that they fool us, specially when they're so transparent in their plotting nowadays, hiding in plain sight.
Written by: Belly, 26 Oct 2009 10:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

The difference between this generation and many others generation of Dominican is that they are loosing a lot of ground with this one unlike past generation where they either gained or came out even which is not the case. Maybe they are seeing the opening of Haitians converting to Catholics at a very fast rate once they are in DR and Dominicans become more neutral to religious believe. Now days most Dominicans are either not going to church or just go to church because he think they should and the percentage of real believers in this generation i believe is very small in the age group of 10-40 due to adapting North American style of living and being more open to the world around. With all the recent church scandals that get over play in DR's Radio,TV and Internet is going to be very hard to gain ground with the population of DR. As you may know that Muslims have surpassed the Catholics members number now because they have much strict rules when scandals do happen.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 11:10 PM
From: United States
Belly, true, however, North America still has the largest christian membership in the western hemisphere. You might see that behavior in the urban setting that you might reside, but other than that the North still a hot bed of religion fanatism.

Lautaro, yes and no, s can see the church has been one source of good and bad for western civilization, which off course we have pay a huge price for it. However, this price is hereditary rather than evolutionary. As the church expanded and mystical heros such as Joan of Arc appeared on the European landscape and the need to expand the church became the basis for such ambitions. The fact that we find ourselves today at the wrong end of such equation is not to be blamed on the current Jesuit presence, but on the ever lasting imprint that they have mange to leave in our soul.

The reason why the spanish colonized those territories as first and forth most due to their desire to carry out the desires of their church. The richness was,
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj, "I remember a jesuit priest hinted Dominican and Hatians were involved in this cartel, he was automatically branded as a bad Dominican... I ponder how can one be so contradictory yet educated !! ? "

Don't you understand that a Dominican that knows about a crime against his country and don't say anything until after something that affects nationals of another country happened is a bad Dominican? Bad for not caring about his country, for seeing with indifferent eyes the destruction of its natural resources and having the means to denounce that heinous crime, say nothing.

Written by: antonioj, "Pepe, lo que tu no entiendes, no es quién tiene razón o quién está equivocado, pero lo que es correcto".

Yo tampoco comprendo. El que tiene la razon no esta en lo correcto? o esta en lo correcto el que no la tiene? De verdad no entiendo, creia que quien tiene la razon, indudablemente esta en lo correcto, por eso la tiene. Favor explicar a ver si entiendo.
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 11:17 PM
From: United States
a mere unintended consequence which was taken due to the need to continue the colonization of the new people their encountered. I think that it is wishful thinking to ask the jesuit to abandon their 400 plus years project now. They feel that they have given a lot in the process of maintaining their grip on the island populace to simple give up it now due to a minor issue as they view i am sure.

They are calling the shots and everyone who delve into the DR political world will know that rather quickly. As far as the hard decisions the church needs to stamp as it did in the colonial times, since we have not being able to break away from such mindset. Belly, what you are saying will only happen when we in the DR stop being culturally nomadic and once it for all settle that elephant in each of the Dominican's household living room. It does not matter how we dress, perfume it or over it, it still there and one day it must addressed. Trujillo, tried but failed miserably due to,
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2009 11:21 PM
From: United States
his own lack of self esteem and personal fears. Lautaro, I really do not know when the next Dominican with the balls big enough is going to re-appear and bring this to light and force the people to look at it and learn about it and finally realize that their fears have always being true. At that point we as a people will not only have a country but a well defined culture as well. And this is going to make us strong enough to say to the church enough is enough and this is what we want of you and how you should conduct business in our lands.
Written by: antonioj, 26 Oct 2009 11:25 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"
Don't you understand that a Dominican that knows about a crime against his country and don't say anything until after something that affects nationals of another country happened is a bad Dominican? Bad for not
"
Micalea you are stipulating or ass uming... respectfully let me add we all know the reason however candid you may want to be.
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan, "I guess that neither pep32 or micaela have ever recalled a story or anecdotally shared one. Look up the rules of quoting and anecdotalization of stories and hopefully you will one day understand why it was written the way it was."

And what your use of the Spanish have to do with anecdotalization ? This is the anecdote in your Spanish: "Ahi estaba este pajero queriedome vender un coco por $50U.S. como si fuero ingles o gringo, cuando yo le conteste, to esta loco o te hiede el caco, el tipo brinco para hatra y me dice, cono pero si eres de lo mio, dame $20 entonce."

The same anecdote in Spanish: "Ahi estaba este pajero queriendome vender un coco por $50U.S. como si fuera ingles o gringo, cuando yo le conteste, "tu esta loco o te hiede el caco" el tipo brinco para atras y me dice, coño pero si eres de los mios, dame $20 entonce." Did I change your anecdote, even a little bit, Guru?


Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan, Micaela, any five questions, any, you make them up and lets run them…pepe32, write your own if you can stand the outcome. you will see how out of touch you are with the people which you live among. Get out of the bunker a little more and talk to them and you'll find out what they really want.

So, you who don't live here and don’t bother to talk to Haitians when you come are more in touch than us. I guess you get in touch with Dominicans mind to mind, right Guru? Anyway, I am not in the business of polls, but this guy is:

Más antihaitianismo - Bernardo Vega

Desde hace 25 años he estado involucrado en la preparación de encuestas políticas. Además de las consabidas preguntas me he preocupado por incluir algunas sobre temas de interés permanente. Una de las que comenzamos a hacer desde hace 16 años es la siguiente: “Muchos haitianos que viven en nuestro país entraron ilegalmente. ¿Cree usted que deben ser devueltos a su país, es decir deportados? -cont-,
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
a Haiti o deben de quedarse aquí?” En 1990 un 51% de los encuestados consideraba que debían ser devueltos. En ese momento, consecuentemente, las opiniones sobre el tema estaban divididas prácticamente por la mitad. Dos años después se hizo la misma pregunta y la proporción a favor de la deportación había aumentado a 74%, por lo que 3 de cada 4 dominicanos ya favorecían la deportación. Hace apenas tres meses se hizo la misma pregunta y la proporción que favorece la deportación subió a un 88%. Ahora menos de 1 de cada 10 (9%) favorece que los haitianos se queden en el país y un 3% no contestó o no supo cómo contestar. Hace dieciséis años un 44% favorecía que los haitianos se quedaran y ahora tan sólo un 9%.
Este aumento en el deseo de los dominicanos de deportar a los haitianos creemos que se debe primordialmente al extraordinario incremento de la presencia de haitianos en el país en los últimos años.
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antes no se les veía, pues estaban tan sólo en los bateyes y ahora abundan casi en todas partes.

Do you think that if the poll is taken today, the number of Dominicans that wants Haitians back would be, let's say 20%, so the number adjust to your mental picture of how things really are.
Read the whole thing, Guru, start learning about Dominican reality.

http://www.clavedigital.com/App_P....o=7486&Id_ClassArticulista=59
Written by: Belly, 26 Oct 2009 11:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Dagtan

Yes in rural areas Christianity rules but in the world we living in like USA 80 percent of the people don't live in rural USA. Check out the "Muslim Demographics Documentary" done by Christians who are seeing the change in demographics around the world. Believe it or not the world is changing and is not in the catholics church favor. Anyways that's a whole different topic here. I don't know how long you been out of DR but recently just the comments made by people in this generation makes you wonder and when i say this generation that includes some that are even as old as 50+.
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan, "In those few words he was actually able convey the Jesuits mission in the DR very clearly, they are gravitating towards the haitian ply seems they view them as mistreated and marginalized. They i believe want the problem to be resolved as much as we do on here, but are there to give minimal protection to the haitian population from abuses and unnecessary violence until the issue is resolved"

Does anybody know about the Jesuits work in Haiti, where the most needy Haitians live? Do they keep centers to feed children, help adults? Do they help them to get birth certificates or protected them from the abuses of the powerful, rescuing restavecs? When you try to find their work in Haiti, are directed to the org website in USA. But in DR, oooooh they have the Jesuit institute in DR, Belen Youth Mission, ILAC Center and among others The Jesuit Refugee Service that operates in Europe, US, Asia, Africa and RD defending the rights of refugees held in detention,
Written by: Micaela, 26 Oct 2009 11:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic
-cont- but who have not been charged with, or convicted of, any crime. These people have been deprived of their liberty simply for entering or remaining in a country or moving without authorization.

Do you see any Haitian in that situation? Why are they operating in our border under those premises? Why if they work with poor and needy they are not in Haiti?
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2009 12:02 AM
From: United States
While you guys argue this issue LIE-onel Fernandez is laughing all the way to his Swiss bank account and so are the Dominican elites who are the motors behind the illegal immigration!
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 12:03 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: antonioj, "Pepe, lo que tu no entiendes, no es quién tiene razón o quién está equivocado, pero lo que es correcto".

Yo tampoco comprendo. El que tiene la razon no esta en lo correcto? o esta en lo correcto el que no la tiene? De verdad no entiendo, creia que quien tiene la razon, indudablemente esta en lo correcto, por eso la tiene. Favor explicar a ver si entiendo.
"
Micaela, let me know what you fail to understand ?... I am confused myself, let see could it be the difference between a strategy and a tactic ?
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 7:26 AM
From: United States
Micaela, thank you very much for posting information that clearly support my desire of a comprehensive system to be instituted for the deportation of hatians. You see it yourself, Dominicans do not agree with your radical views and the ultimate take over of haitian nightmares, pinch yourslef today and you will realize that you were actually dreaming.

I think that the data shows that a system is in need and it shows that Dominicans are not afraid of haitians as you are. This has always been my point, the DR people is by no means afraid or think that the country will be handed over to the haitians, they are illegal immigrants and as they came in they could be removed.

Read those polls again Micaela and tell the black helicopters circling your house that you were just kidding about the hatian histeria that and your best friend pepe32 have been preaching all over the web. Stop the vitriol Mica, since the people want the haitians out, they do not fear them, nor want violence.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 9:00 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Wow Micaela in 2006 85% want all the Haitians out and somehow dogtans twisted mind thinks this supports his pro-Haitian discourse!! No hay mas ciego que el que no quiere ver!

Sorry Doggie Josea and Piti Antonio MOST Dominicans do not want the Haitians in our territory so as far as joselita and dogtan you are against an overwhelming Dominican public opinion.

Vendepatrias!
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 9:04 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Micaela ,esta gente no vale la pena porque a ellos no les importa RD ,ellos responden a unos conceptos ideologicos torcidos que los hace traidores por naturaleza y el dagtan es tan imbecile que le pones pruebas y aun asi no acepta que el esta en la minoria y que queremos la gran mayoria de Haitianos fuera y pronto!
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 9:41 AM
From: United States
pep32, having fun again inthe school yard. Please re-read the data and tell me who is in the minority. Everyone knows that haitians are not good for the future of the DR, andevery level minded knows that Dominicans are not fearful of hatians and simply want them to go back.

On the other hand you are terrified of them, are you afraid that someone might discover you pepe32? I am ever so happy that the ordinary people are not falling pray to lunatics like you. They want them out and not kill them or dehuminize, marginalize as you do constantly on here. Maybe you have been bullied in the past and like anyone that was bullied during their life time they'll become bullys themselves, do not pray on the weak, pepe32, have the guts to go after the strong in the country, they control your life in its entirely, stand up to them instead of picking on the weak and disaffected.

Written by: vacanos, 27 Oct 2009 10:02 AM
From: United States
micaela "Does anybody know about the Jesuits work in Haiti, where the most needy Haitians live? Do they keep centers to feed children, help adults? Do they help them to get birth certificates or protected them from the abuses of the powerful, rescuing restavecs? When you try to find their work in Haiti, are directed to the org website in USA. But in DR, oooooh they have the Jesuit institute in DR, Belen Youth Mission, ILAC Center and among others The Jesuit Refugee Service that operates in Europe, US, Asia, Africa and RD defending the rights of refugees held in detention,
but who have not been charged with, or convicted of, any crime. These people have been deprived of their liberty simply for entering or remaining in a country or moving without authorization.

Do you see any Haitian in that situation? Why are they operating in our border under those premises? Why if they work with poor and needy they are not in Haiti?"


Just one word EXCELLENTE
Written by: vacanos, 27 Oct 2009 10:04 AM
From: United States
Micaela just gave the Jesuit of dogtan some good deserving dog slapping :)
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Amazing! Vega talks about anti-Haitianism, but you see that he clearly supports you desire of a comprehensive system for deportation. He is not talking about my radical views, just about the % of Dominicans that want Haitians out. "Este aumento en el deseo de los dominicanos de deportarlos creemos que se debe primordialmente al extraordinario incremento de la presencia de haitianos en los últimos años" He didn't talk about solutions, just stated cold facts; "Hace 3 meses se hizo la misma pregunta y la proporción que favorece la deportación subió a un 88%. Ahora menos de 1 de cada 10 (9%) favorece que los haitianos se queden en el país" We aren't afraid of Haitians, we just don't want them here.

But go ahead, keep your mind to mind contact with Dominicans and tell the world that they chose you as their spokesman, to explain that there is not Haitian hysteria, we want them out, but meanwhile, we don't care if they come, stay, abuse our resources, or anything else they might do.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:21 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: Pepe32, "Micaela ,esta gente no vale la pena porque a ellos no les importa RD ,ellos responden a unos conceptos ideologicos torcidos que los hace traidores por naturaleza y el dagtan es tan imbecile que le pones pruebas y aun asi no acepta que el esta en la minoria y que queremos la gran mayoria de Haitianos fuera y pronto!"

In spite of his 'education' his English and Spanish posts may me wonder of his master in any language, but something he is a mater is in twisting things. Just check, contrary to him, we are in the minority.

Anyway, don't give up, we can let them confound the unawares, and make them think that we are happy with the massive Haitians presence here, their overtaxing and abuse of our resources, and their depredation, until someday, when we can establish a comprehensive deportation system. Not, people are not happy and there is everyday proof of it, nor would people wait quietly for that day, when finally Haitians are returned to their country.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:27 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj "Pepe, lo que tu no entiendes, no es quién tiene razón o quién está equivocado, pero lo que es correcto".

"Micaela, let me know what you fail to understand ?... I am confused myself, let see could it be the difference between a strategy and a tactic ?"


Yes Antonio, I understand that you too were confused. Quien tiene la razon, esta en lo correcto; quien no tiene razon esta equivocado, regardless of strategy or tactic.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2009 11:10 AM
From: United States
"Sorry Doggie Josea and Piti Antonio MOST Dominicans do not want the Haitians in our territory so as far as joselita and dogtan you are against an overwhelming Dominican public opinion."

So pepe32, using your logic that public policy should be based on the opinion of the majority, because the majority of public opinion in NAZI Germany was anti-Semitic it was ok to exterminate six million JEWS!
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 11:36 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Estimado Chihuahua ,lo que la MAYORÍA de Dominicanos queremos es que se VAYAN los Haitianos, nadie (bueno tal vez algunos) quiere que los maten o maltraten pero si están en legitimo derecho que saquen hasta el ultimo Haitiano SIN DOCUMENTACIÓN LEGAL!

Solo un imbécil haría una comparación con la Alemania NAZI (Nacional Socialista)

Por lo menos tu eres mas astuto que tu amo y entiendes que la mayoría abrumadora queremos la expulsión y no como quiere Dogtan que se revise si son "buena gente" sino que todo el que no tenga documentación legal sea llevado a la frontera y entregado a las autoridades de Haití (Naciones Unidas) y que luego se determine cuantos hacen falta y se permita trabajadores TEMPORALES a RD.

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2009 11:42 AM
From: United States
"Solo un imbécil" "eres mas astuto"

¿Entonces y en que quedamos?
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 11:42 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Micaela,el Antonio este es como todo piti un traicionero ya que aqui anda manso pero en el foro Haitiano andaba barriendo el suelo con la RD sus hombres y en especial a las mujeres .
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 11:58 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"
In spite of his 'education' his English and Spanish posts may me wonder of his master in any language, but something he is a mater is in twisting things. Just check, contrary to him, we are in the minority.
"
Micaela why should you get personal with dagtan or josean for that matter, do you honestly think you can match their delivery and fluency in the language of shakespeare ?? Please let keep things in prospective here, we are to here exchange ideas respectfully NOT to place in question other posters academic credential.

Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 12:34 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Pepe 32: Mira ti mal no se como decirlo, pero tengo la imprecion que tu no puedes vivir sin mi , aunque tu interes por mi es tan fuerte que no lo puedes controlar, desgraciadamente para ti, a mi me encantan las mujeres ., Yo se que has tratado de confundirme en espanol , te informo que lo domino y hablo 4 idiomas mas asi que tu dices si seguimos en espanol por ti, claro para entendernos mejor, con respecto a lo que sucedio no fue en el foro haitiano sino en el topix , con tus ideas radicales y los ataques personales no me dejaste mas remedio que defenderme, y tres anos despues sigues en la misma historia (como una telenovela mala) hasta cuando creseras y seras un ciudadano util a tu pais , respetando los derechos humanos basicos y dejar de insultar y hablar basura a tus paisanos cuando no comparten tu opinion.
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 12:50 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Do you see any Haitian in that situation? Why are they operating in our border under those premises? Why if they work with poor and needy they are not in Haiti?"


Micaela, this is simply very poor (pun intended), do you mean to say proverty does not exist in the Domincan republic ?. The poor Dominicans which are at the receiving hand of these organizations will not be appreciative of your commentaries.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 1:56 PM
From: United States
Micaela the fact that you are not capable of seeing reality of what is beyond in front of your eyes is not my fault. I know that you really want people to see your point, but if the point of view distorted, then future of people will also be.

However, is not my intention to change your distortion of facts and arguments even when they are based on your own sources. You have make it your mission to dehuminize and marginalize hatians time after time and now you say that you simply want them out of the country. Well if that is what you want them by all means necessary. I have always supported a deportation and to be done in a humane way.

If you do not feel threatened by the haitians and want them out of the national territory (which btw is the essence among domican natives, not just you as you make it seem at times) then stop the dehumanization or marginalization of those people. They are already fairly insulated within the confines of the bateyes and chanty towns to have an,
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 2:07 PM
From: United States
ill effect on the "Dominican Culture" I am forced to bracket it because I have not found a Dominican that is capable of giving me an acceptable definition of what is our culture. Now before you jump on the word accpetable, since I know that youlove to break up my postings and take what you think will help your cause, let me bring this (acceptable) to elementary level for yah: A culture is made up of two layers: one being superficial and the other being fundamental, I'll leave it here and you complete the blanks. Lautaro and few other, maybe two other know what I am talking about.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 2:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan,you are a legend in your own mind...

Antonio Piti you should stop drinking so much you are killing the scarce brain cells.

Bottom line in all the twisting of facts MOST DOMINICANS want most of the Haitians out and you can twist and divert the issue talking about who is to blame or whether violence is needed or not and whether Dominicans are racist or not but the bottom line is that we don't want the Haitians here and "por las buenas o por las malas" Haitians will be leaving DR.The only question is whether it will be an orderly and humane event or a total rampage driven mass exodus with plenty of blood and gore .

Dagtan the polls are in and your side has very few supporters except for some Jesuits ,Traitors like you and of course the Haitians so I would take Antonio's recommendation and start learning Kreyol or just slam your head against the wall so you can communicate with the Piti population although from your posts here you obviously don't need to many hits on the he
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 2:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
head to achieve full Haitian status
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 6:10 PM
From: United States
pepe32, what is interesting is that you all of sudden renounce your vitriol and are actually agreeing with me. What happened to the nasty peep32 that I came to know, have you lost your steam and ran at ground pepe32? Those polls clearly show what everyone including the dominican diaspora wants, which is deportation and no violence or dehumanization. Pepe32, go back and read your own posts, now I know that you were either drunk or smoking something while writing those posts, since you are contradicting your mantra which is they are lesser humans, they are going to destroy our culture, they are going to take over the country, they are like a cancer, they are the parasites.

You are such a coward that now that the data speaks for itself that Dominicans do not speak of haitians as you do, you want to come on here and play nice, nice, pepe32, everyone knows that you are contradicting yourself. Your buddy helped to awake you from those nightmares, I have been asking for that info for
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 6:13 PM
From: United States
while and no that you know that most dominicans if not all do not share your vitriol, you want to flip sides, not this time pepe32.

It is clear that you no longer have anything to say, since you are reverting back to the CAP OUT mode, yes I am un traidor, haitiano tapao, vende patria y mas. This are the signs of a sore loser, deal with it.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj "Micaela why should you get personal with dagtan or josean for that matter, do you honestly think you can match their delivery and fluency in the language of shakespeare ?? Please let keep things in prospective here, we are to here exchange ideas respectfully NOT to place in question other posters academic credential"

Antonio why should you worry with whom I get personal? No, I can't match their fluency in English, I have never gone to school in USA, but can you please ask about Spanish, we all went to school in DR. Now, Mister, keep things in perspective. If when exchanging ideas respectfully, you are not bothered by some people attempts to rub in the rest their supposed "academic credential", why it bothers you when those credentials are questioned?
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: antonioj "Micaela, this is simply very poor (pun intended), do you mean to say proverty does not exist in the Domincan republic ?. The poor Dominicans which are at the receiving hand of these organizations will not be appreciative of your commentaries"

Antonio read carefully. I spoke about The Jesuit Refugee Service "that defends the rights of refugees held in detention, but who have not been charged with, or convicted of, any crime. These people have been deprived of their liberty simply for entering or remaining in a country or moving without authorization" Once again, do you see any Haitian in that situation?

Nothing to do with poverty in RD, and you simply didn't get it, the Jesuit Refugee Service in DR doesn't work with Dominicans, we don't have Dominican refugees in DR border, do we? Dominicans are not at the receiving hand of this organization. Did you already guess who are? Can you explain why there are not Jesuits working in Haiti with those poor souls?
Written by: riosm, 27 Oct 2009 8:19 PM
From: United States
wow ! a new dt record......do i see 500 on the horizon ?
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan, "You have make it your mission to dehuminize and marginalize hatians time after time and now you say that you simply want them out of the country"

Oh yes, I have made it my mission to dehumanize and marginalize Haitians time after time, how denouncing the real reasons why they come to DR, by letting know to whoever pretend not to know that they don't have food, clean water, jobs, health care, shelter, preventive care, can't get a document in their country and there is not guarantee to their human rights and basic human dignity, not because our elite bring them to work . I have nothing to do with the situation, but if I speak about it, I am the one dehumanizing and marginalizing them.

I also dehumanize and marginalize when I say that only 1/3 is employed, that the rest work for themselves and that a large amount of women, children and elderly don't work, but use our resources. That and the sheer numbers is the reason I want them out
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 8:29 PM
From: United States
micaela, they are one in the same. This is the institution that is providing services to both sides of equation in different capacities. Sometimes I feel as if you want to be blind to certain realities that are right in front you and you either decide not see them or can not see them due to your environment and its influences.

Micaela, the Jesuits have been there since inception and will be there many generations after yours ends, they feel a religious obligation to provide those services and guidance to marginally established third world country. The jesuits are still in colonial mode and still exercise their religious indoctrination of the people to fill the many blank spots in us as a people.

Religious dominance of our republic will only end when we as a people reject it and at this point this is impossible since we do not have the intellectual ability to do via the reformation of our history and culture. I know I am asking a lot of you to fully grasp what i am saying, but
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan, "They are already fairly insulated within the confines of the bateyes and chanty towns to have an, ill effect on the "Dominican Culture" am forced to bracket it because I have not found a Dominican that is capable of giving me an acceptable definition of what is our culture."

Please, stop. Who is insulated within bateyes and chanty towns? Didn't you say that while driving in Santiago saw them all over? They were in Bateyes in 1980, now they are everywhere, just walk around, without covering your eyes, please.

It that so? 9 million of Dominicans and nobody, absolutely nobody starting with your own family circle, is capable of give you an acceptable definition of what is our culture. If I were you, at your age and still in need that somebody give you an acceptable definition of your culture -that is not knowing what the hell that mean- I would renounce to call myself Dominican, because chances are you never will find out. -cont-
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 8:37 PM
From: United States
do some research, concentrate in learning about who we are as a people and you'll see what I am talking about. Micaela, our great weakness is that we can not define our culture the way many others do and this limits unity and uniformity in our extroverted behavior.

micaela, good reads as follow, Moya Pons - A must to all every Dominican on the face of the planet - second ed. coming out in matter of weeks. La manosa, Bosch, greatest Dominican leader since the founding fathers, A must read for all Dominicans, Why Cocks Fight, A must read especially for you to ease your fears of haitians and their ultimate invasion. The book is extremely objective, so she is not antidominican, nor bad dominican, since is american from a little village in Wisconsin I believe.

Start with those and then you will be on the way to understanding why the Jesuits will never leave, until we say so. Take this any way you want, i really do not care, since it is not my intention to educate you.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
cont- A piece of advice, stop trying on your own or talking to Haitians to find out, just take your own version of it, and be happy, after all nobody would ever beat it!
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 8:43 PM
From: United States
Micaela, go ahead and post your definition of our culture and then i will prove to you that you do not know either. Remember, a culture has two layers, first find out what each of those layers contains and then go ahead and create that definition. I am most happy to have found someone willing to tackle such most interesting question about us.

Micaela, this is your great chance, take advantage.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 8:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: dagtan "micaela, they are one in the same. This is the institution that is providing services to both sides of equation in different capacities"

Are they are one in the same? Does Father Regino has a base in Haiti for Jesuit Refugee Service? In what capacity they provide services in Haiti? But I am sure is the way you say, just please let us know what exactly they do in Haiti and where are they based, where are they working with the most needy.

Let me remain you that we are not talking here about Religious dominance of DR, just Jesuits working with the poor in Haiti, in their side of the border.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 9:26 PM
From: United States
Micaela, once again please let me put it to you in simpler terms, no offense, when I talk about both sides of the equation, i mean both people, i hope you did not confused equation with equity. An equation has to sides to it, one side is the Dominicans the other is the Haitians, this is not determined based on physicality, but on people. I hope i clarified that point.

Second point about religious dominance, I was simply stating why they will never leave or stop functioning the way they do, that is all, Micaela.

Finally, Micaela, you did not even tried to provide an answer about our nomadic culture and why it affects our uniformity in sending a resounding message to the jesuits and others. It is ok, i think that it is an unfair question since it has never being taught to you in the DR. It is not only you. But i will provide to you another hint to help you understand why we are still looking since 2/27/44, on that date micaela, there was a revolt just hours after the trabucaso
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 9:34 PM
From: United States
in the province of Montegrande, this revolt shaped our history for ever and did not allowed Duarte our liberator to do as he wished. While looking for this information read upon Boyer and his contributions to the island and how it influenced the decision making of the trinitarios in a good way, that is the reason that in our original document you do not find one trace of anti hatian rhetoric, rather invitations to remain as lawful citizens of the new republic.

Moreover, i like to use this time to shut the hell up of my Puertoricans friends, since boats were traveling in the opposite direction as they do today between the two island. These were received with open arms and never turned back.

micaela, our country is rich in history, but unfortunately, the people that matter most in the DR also control what you learn.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 9:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lo peor Micaela es que este buen pendejo habla de manera prepotente como si tuviese las llaves a la verdad unica pero en sus escritos demuestra todo lo contrario o sea que hasta parece Haitiano porque a pesar de no tener ni p_ta idea de lo que es ser Dominicano se cree capa de hablar por nosotros .

Peor aun no entiende que las encuestas lo ponen en ridiculo ya que bajo su criterio asqueroso una gran parte de los Haitianos se quedarian en RD y la mayoria de Dominicanos no los queremos en nuestro suelo no por miedo como sugiere el traidor sino porque ni podemos ni nos conviene soportar semejante cruz .Este tipejo esta tan desfazado que si se atreve a andar con sus pendejadas en nuestra Patria puede que no salga caminando.

Es importante el hecho que apenas sabe Español ya que indica mucho y por eso se siente mucho mas cómodo en "su" idioma Ingles y la cultura Dominicana la ha dejado atras para absorber una cultura de gueto en EEUU . Es muy parecido a los Haitianos en su orgullo
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 9:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic
y su ego inflado a pesar de carecer de tanto.

Le dejaste el ojo "virao" cuando le dijiste que si aun no sabia lo que era la cultura Dominicana que nunca lo iba a saber.

Al final de cuentas tenemos que hacer lo que le convenga a la RD y hacer caso omiso de necios y traidores ya que ellos no tienen ni voz ni voto en RD y al Dagtan que lo metan en uno de los camiones y lo dejen del otro lado del Artibonito para que aprenda de manera real como son los de su nuevo país Haitiano.
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 9:49 PM
From: Canada, home safe
edit
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 9:49 PM
From: Canada, home safe
lol, Mr dagtan you carry a big stick, you sure know how to use it.
Written by: antonioj, 27 Oct 2009 9:50 PM
From: Canada, home safe
edit
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 9:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Piti Antonio don't get excited about Dogtans stick ,josean already has a firm grip.

Surprise surprise a Haitian loves a traitorous Dominican..
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 10:04 PM
From: United States
pepe32, i know the truth hurst, especially when you can response since you do not know how. Yes, maybe in the time of Balaguer i would have been on camion heading toward el paredon y no haiti. You see e are still recuperating from the liquidation of our intellectuals during the Balaguer period and he did it, because him as an intellectual knew full well that an educated dominican is a force to be reckon with.

Fortunately, people that have dedicated their lives to learn about who they are and their history in objective way are no longer repudiated in the DR, except by neanderthals like you.

Pepe32, you what is really sad, the sad story of all your abuses and gutter language is that you come across as a person who do not value knowledge. Knowledge is pure because it is based on facts and we have to value it even if it is against our beliefs, because beliefs are form from set of opinions and opinions do not carry the burden truth, since they are self initiated. But knowledge, co
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 10:11 PM
From: United States
is pure in the sense of the word. You see you are really naive, because you constantly confuse knowledge with arrogance. i hope that you do not tell your kids to be stupid since knowing could be seen as arrogance.

Bring them to the book store and public libraries so they can set shot over there and read away and learn about their country as much as possible.

One thing is pepe32, that if when your kids learn about their country in objective manner and i hope they do and they see what you write here, they will deny any relationship to you due to the huge embarassment that you will cause them. Go to the national archives and read, maybe this will change your attitude a little bit and I am not against your feelings, but keep them home if you are going to become abusive and repugnant in the process of making them public. Yes, your Spanish is better than mine, so what, while your information will never match the quality of mine. Language does not matter when the info is wrong.
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
What is this? I should be flattered, but please Dagtan, put your money where your mouth is. After Written "I have not found a Dominican that is capable of giving me an acceptable definition of what is our culture" not even among your family, you expect that the humble me, the one without education, incapable of seeing reality of what is beyond in front of my eyes, the one y out of touch with the people which I live among, the silly, the one that can no longer stand on leg on my petty arguments, the one who should stop the vitriol, would give what nobody else have being able to, a definition of Dominican culture? No, Guru, you don't mean that, right? How would you take seriously anything than comes from me, Micaela, please think about your fans, don't let them down.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 10:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Again Dagtan you are a legend in your own mind and pseudo intellectuals abound today unlike the true intellectuals of the past .You somehow think that all the animals that chanted just like the idiots that chant yes we can are intellectuals but the truth is your ignorance is always your downfall because you only see out of your left eye and you underestimate the opposition because of your hubris therefore you are shocked when things don't go the way you thought and you either insult the people for not following your dictates (they must be stupid if they don't think like Lord Dagtan ) or you come up with some twisted reasoning why people went against your ideas but you NEVER will admit that you are wrong because the EGO of your kind is so inflated that your vision is blurred. Your demeanor with Micaela and others that don't agree with you is demeaning and condescending yet you talk of respect when all you are is a coward who hides like a little girl.

Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2009 10:15 PM
From: United States
Mica, you know full well that i have always admired your passion, but not your delivery system.
Written by: Pepe32, 27 Oct 2009 10:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
En buen Dominicano tiras la piedra y escondes la mano por eso no eres mas que un cobarde que se esconde como todo cobarde detras de palabrillas por no tener el valor de hablar claro.

Knowledge is not closed and someone who has such a one sided view of history is surely not open to knowledge but instead disguises indoctrination as knowledge.You answers and ideas are all predictable coming from sheep who think themselves intellectuals yet never would they "think outside the box" because they would be shunned in the liberal leftists circles where being "open minded " is ok unless you disagree with them. So please spare me the same tired discourse .

Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have a doubt, Guru, where did you learn about culture? I have find a definition that includes your layers; hence I understand why you are unable to find tone that marries the only one you would accept, yours.

Anyway culture mainly refers, from the simple: systems of knowledge shared by a relatively large group of people, to more complex: cumulative deposit of knowledge, experience, beliefs, values, attitudes, meanings, hierarchies, religion, notions of time, roles, spatial relations, material objects and possessions acquired by a group of people in the course of generations through individual and group striving. Or way of life of a group of people-behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next. Given this wrong definition, -cont-
Written by: Micaela, 27 Oct 2009 10:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I have not trouble seeing a real Dominican culture, with our way of life of a group of people--our behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that we accept, generally without thinking about them, and that we pass along by communication and imitation from one generation of Dominicans to the next.

Excluding, naturally, those Dominicans that emigrated from DR as children or adolescents, completely ignorant of what being a Dominican means, and have even the notion that we may well be Haitians, but that can get and education, a job and a proud culture in USA, and their children, of course.
Written by: antonioj, 28 Oct 2009 12:06 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Good thread Micaela and Mr Dagtan. Pepe32 your childishness have no limit, keep being the useful idiot of this forum, let see how far you get .
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 7:20 AM
From: United States
Micaela, good work, now let me define to your those two layers and go back to your list and see if you can come up a definition that will represent Domicans across the board. Culture is divided into a superficial layer (i.e. things that you can easily see), such as: music, dress, food, then there is fundamental cutlure (i.e. customs that are passed down from generation to generation, not necessarily written, but mostly verbal) these are things such as: ethics, morals values, family structure (matriarchal or pariarchal), religious beliefs (indluding representation of such beliefs via saints, pics, houses of wordship), interaction with our environment, and fanally government systems of systems of governance.

Now, the real work start, out all of those you need now to look at your list and try to define who we are following those guidelines.

On the haitian issue, it is sad that you are actually insinuating that I tried to make Dominicans haitians by bringing the, cont
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 7:26 AM
From: United States
Boyer invasion. Mica unless you belong to the league of acendados, then Boyer was very good for you. Since Boyer ended slavery on the entire island, this was the original intention of Boyer, but unfortunately he got greedy and became very bad for the people of the east, which by the way did not have a national identification at the time. Remember Mica that our fore fathers lived in a slave owning society and had no intentions of ending such evil institution.

So me as a mulatto, is appreciative of the fact that even if it was a foreign invador, slavery was once and for all abolished. This is were the revolt of motegrande comes into pay. Se micaela, one thing I realized when I entered the American Education system, is how swiss cheese like the Dominican education is and how much they do not teach us about our origins. It is treated as if it was big secret and that is amoral and unethical.

The americans hide lots of stuff about their history, but if you want to find out, it,
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 7:35 AM
From: United States
would be available to you anytime you want.

I believe that if we in the DR teach our true history, which is indeed closer to the slave owning system and rebellions against the colonization of Spain than against haiti, maybe our relationship with haiti would have been better. It is incredible how these two people lived in peace, even after the infractions of occupation and how it has declined over the years. Both sides became careless about the history that had them fighting together for the common cause of anti-slavery against both Spain and France.

As a mulatto I do have to recognize that if it was not for the Boyer invasion, even though it was not acceptable, slavery would have been part of the island until 1898 as Cuba and PR were. Think about it Mica, we were taking run aways slaves from these two island for more than 40 years, when those slaves were able to be free people. We played a huge role in weakening Spain's grip on the slavery system in the caribbean. cont.
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 7:39 AM
From: United States
I am extremely proud of that part of our history, I do not know about you. As a young republic, the Domincans have had a huge role play in caribbean history, people in the DR need to learn about that and see that the country has always been a bright beam in the darkness of slavery and colonialism.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 7:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
But there's a big difference between slavery as it existed on the DR and the one of Cuba and PR, dag. The one of the DR existed only in name, cuz' the plantation system was abandoned after the dutch (which were the ones that had the monopoly of credit) established their own plantation system in Brazil, in order to stop depending on the spanish crown to get their sugar. After facing such a competition (and the effects of the sevillian monopoly) the spanish sugar industry on Hispaniola experienced a steady decline, which would be given the deathblow with the devastations of Osorio in 1605-06. The plantation economy would only start to appear on the island again after the french set their foot on the western part of the island officially in 1697 (treaty of Ryswick), because before that date, the economy of that colony was mainly based on tobacco cultivation, done by white engages. (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 7:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont..) The french colony would switch to plantation slavery after seeing the success with which the british established this type of economy in Jamaica. In the meanwhile, the eastern colony would establish a cattle ranching system, in which both "masters" and "slaves" would depend on each other to survive the harsh conditions of the land. Granted, there were some sugar mills (trapiches) here and there, but it would be an act of complete dishonesty to say that they operated under the same harsh basis of the ones of the french colony, or that they met with the same success, cuz' you see, even though there was not a social equality on paper, it had a de facto existence, cuz' both "masters" and "slaves" of the spanish colony were equally poor, except for some bureaucrats and military officers living in Santo Domingo city and Santiago. On Cuba and PR, the sugar plantation economy would came into being after the Haitian Revolution destroyed the plantation economy on the western (cont.)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:02 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) part of the island. Another thing that explains why the sugar plantation could not revive again on the spanish colony was the fact that the Catholic Church was the biggest propietor of land on that colony, and judging by the accounts of the epoch, the priests didn't have the faintest notion about how to put the land to produce. Not that they needed to do this, cuz' the crown gave them a lot of money per year just because of the fact of their being propietors of the land, contrary to what happened on the western part of the island, where the plantations were concentrated on a few white and colored families, and some colonial officers here and there. Unlike the spanish colony, the church wasn't allowed to establish a foothold on that colony, which explains why the slaves were able to develop their own language - kreyol - in the 1750's, and their own belief system - voudou - which was mix between west african, christian, and some taino beliefs.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:06 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) Sugar would only rear its ugly head again on the eastern part of the island after some cuban and puerto rican potentates established themselves here, fleeing from the independentist conflicts that would plague those islands from the 1870's onwards. If you want more information about the ups and downs of the sugar plantation economy on the DR and the rest of the Caribbean, I highly suggest you to take a look a Frank Moya Pons' "History of the Caribbean". It's highly entertaining and informative.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:22 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
When I analyze the history and/or the situation of this island, I can't help but establish similarities with the one of the Netherlands. On the one side, you have prosperous provinces (the western part of the island and on the netherlander case, the seven northern provinces led by Holland and Zeeland) which sought to rid themselves of metropolitan interference in order to seek their own destiny. On the other part, you have the obedient provinces (the eastern part of the island, and on the netherlander case, Belgium, northern France and Luxembourg) which were characterized for being priest ridden, poor as hell, and suffering the tyranny of the jesuits and the Inquisition, and which would be prevented from the developing a national sentiment because of this. Like the netherlander case, the obedient hispaniolan provinces would not develop a national sentiment while faced with the yoke of the metropolis, but when dominated by their territorial neighbour.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:26 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
edit
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 8:30 AM
From: United States
Off course you are right about the distinctions between the rwo slavery syste, which at the end of the day held people as slaves. Yes, the eastern side was maintly populted by indentuired servitude, while the western side was pure Dutch style slavery as is it was in the American colonies. If you remember there was an alredy established slavery colony in the eastern side of the island by the turn of the 17th century, which by the time the conflict between the west and nap, this system was full blown. You indicate that most of the land on eastern side was owned by the chuych, if you look as the southeastern territories that is not the case.

Lautaro, if you remember the court hearings between B. Colon and the church about slavery on the eastern soil and how the church was totally against such instituion. You are semi right about the sugar industry, but during this time it was still the most profitable crop in the carubbean, since the American colonies were producing huge amount
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 8:39 AM
From: United States
of tobacco at this time.

The importance of the caribbean ended when the French and British started aiding run aways french colonies and began what is called the caribbean piracy system, in which French vessles would be intercepted and sank while transforting goods and materials. One thing I give you is that French slavery was far harsher than that of the Spanish's and this was because of their number minorities. Remember that the reason why the western mulattoes were so disgrunted with the Frecnh was because they were used as bait to keep the larger black (african slaves population in the territory) the French could not increase their population fast enough to offset the disparity, so they began an intermarriage campaign.

Cse in point with the Netherlands as an example, one thing Lautaro that fail to consider is that these people were the same and shared common interests, so their division was not ideaological, racial or ancestra but religious.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:40 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The thing that I'm trying to convey is that slavery on the eastern part of the island, at the beginnings of the XIXth century, was a thing that existed only in paper, cuz' the majority of the "slave" population (some 30,000 people more or less) were de facto free. That's what explains why Toussaint Louverture wasn't met by the enthusiastic hoozahs when he abolished this institution over here in 1801 than when Sonthonax and co. did so in 1793 on the western part of the island, cuz' it's hardly known secret that free population surpassed the enslaved one on the spanish colony, and this by a very large margin. Worse, the catholic and priestly indoctrination was such that the eastern population, instead of following their western brethen in rebellion against the napoleonic expedition, did the opposite and actually aided the invading forces in subjugating Toussaint's forces. Surely you must have heard about the skirmishes between the easterners and Toussaint's forces (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:43 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
daigtan says: Cse in point with the Netherlands as an example, one thing Lautaro that fail to consider is that these people were the same and shared common interests, so their division was not ideaological, racial or ancestra but religious.

That's not exactly true, my friend. If you care to notice, the majority of the population in Belgium is french and german speaking, while the dutch only spoke, dutch. So, like the hispaniolan case, there was a language barrier to consider.
Written by: antonioj, 28 Oct 2009 8:43 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Laut,Dagtan, Micaela can we start a thread on the subject very fascinating, about " history of hispanola"
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 8:45 AM
From: United States
That problem could be overcome as it has been by the Netherlands, while the issue os Hispaniola is more idealogical, racial and ancestral hence the problem still lingers after many generations.

Maybe, if you would have compared the northwest and southwest Kingdoms as an example the Dutch model could be more fitting. These two kingdomes struggled to find their niche and in the end due to those deep rooted disagreement ans yes the involvement of the church on the north kingdome it was unified under more bloodshed. This events gave rise to Boyer's authoritarian power and the ideal of emperor got into his head. Also, due to the conflict between the western kingdoms, he believed that the only way to prevent such things from happening in the future was to expand and the east was the only way.
Our history is a beautiful thing isn't it, I wish I could sit with you over coffee and iron of these events out. Moya Pons I read almost all of his books.
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 8:46 AM
From: United States
edit, going to a mtg. Thanks Laut.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:51 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
That's strange, cuz' every historian that I have read about the netherlander issue, from John Lothrop Motley onwards, have spoken about the ethnic divide between the southern celtic tribes (belgian and walloon) and the northern Frisian and Anglo-Saxon ones (dutch), both in the ideological AND language departments. They mention the celtic inclination to bend their knees to authority (the celtic case with the Roman Republic and the blegian and walloon one with Spain) while the Frisians and Anglo Saxons and their descendants have characterized themselves for their defiance to it.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 8:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Any time, my friend. I'm looking forward to having more debates with you.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 9:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
antonioj asked: "Laut,Dagtan, Micaela can we start a thread on the subject very fascinating, about " history of hispanola"

I have begged him time and again to bring his considerable firepower to the forum, mon ami, to no avail. Although I can't blame him from shying away from the forum, since this one is time consuming, and some threads over there would make him cringe with disgust.
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 9:59 AM
From: United States
Yes, antonioj our island's history is most fascinating, only if people will bother to dig a little.

Laut, it is known and it was at time the hispaniola was mainly populated by tainos y caribes, side by side with indentured servants (workers), these workers were Europeans (poor spanish people) which in effect were relirgious fanatics, hence our heavy duty indoctrination, which we are still paying for it today. You also, ever so lightly touched on limited or lack thereof, when it comes to the development of a national sentiment, we should explore that more, since this is root cause problem today.

However, as the industries developed and these indetured servants became land owner (also making them part of the dominant class) and the tainos and caribe dying off by the k's a year, the necessity for importation of labor was clear. Hence , slavery, at a small rate compared to the western territories which from inception were designed under slave labor. With that point out of the way,
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 10:07 AM
From: United States
lets talk about internal tension in the western territories on the eve of the revolt. The san domingue people which was made up mostly of Black Africans (slaves, some free) Mulattoes (all free, some land owners and slave owners) and finally, a minority white (French, amjority land owners and government holders) In essence what you have a minority/ majority issue, in which the minority in terms of power is the majority in terms of people, which is still the case today on both sides.

As the mulattoes beagn to ask for more and the whites to push back and responding with a huge infusion of new white blood into the system, the mulattoes realized that the only people that could help them stop the whites was the slaved blacks, and toussaint comes into play. As they united and the whites a spelled and the mulattoes wanted to maintain status quo, toussaint revelled against them and hence the killing or speelling of everything white or french for lack of a better term. cont
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic
1. My family does belong to the hacendados and were here before 1844. The people of the east at that time did not have a national identification; as per you we still don't have it, right? Now what slavery was there to be terminated? The situation was so bad, that slaves and masters were equally poor and shared everything. So eastern slavery has nothing to do with the west exploitation, where slave live less than 10 years.Here they grew old with their master, rarely sold or families separated.

2. Did Boyer ended slavery in all America? No, but it ended. Did it ended in 1898 for all colonies? No, sooner or latter it would have ended here at a much lesser cost for us. You were not taught anything about your origins, but luckily, that is not true for the rest of our students. To you it was secret, amoral and unethical, but the rest new from the killings of Indians, to the first slaves, the devastation of the west, the poverty, the intermarriage with the Indians and slaves.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic
No Dagtan, no secrets at all and it is available to any who cares to know.

3. Now which is our true history? Whatever you may say, Haiti invaded our side for their own ends, everything they did, is known. They ended slavery, but closed the university, prohibit Spanish language, ousted all our authorities from office, prohibit meetings, forced the population to paid for their French debt, raided the farms to cover the needs of their army, abused and brutalized anybody that oppose them. In view of that, I don't understand why because they ended slave owning, when slaves were a minority in this side, it would change how we see them and that period of our history.

Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 10:13 AM
From: United States
as they go into this perios there is one little spot that for some reason is omitted from history, the division of the new freed western territories into two kingdoms one north and the other south. Both wanting different things, with the south wanting connections to france and the north total separation. Well the souther kings man kill himself, opening the door for boyer and things go down hill from there. Boyer was anti-europeans and did not want them on the island and despised the fact that there so many of them on the eastern side, and the need for new resources, hence motivating him to move east in the hope of liberating the slaves and gaining access to precious resources.

The eastern people were ok with slavery, they saw no evil in it and even after the trabucaso, there were considerations to revert back to pre-hatian invasion, prompting the out burst of people and one major revolt in montegrande.

Montegrande is I believe the most important momment in the history,cont
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:14 AM
From: Dominican Republic
4. Yes, Dominicans have had a huge role in Caribbean history. That is our "great past" what about caring and worrying about our dire present. Whoever doesn't know about the role we played weakening Spain's grip on the slavery system should learn it, and reflect, why we are where we are know? How comes Cuba and PR are a lot better than we, while we are closest to Haiti, the Past Greatest". That my give them pause, and maybe start them thinking about our future.

Anyway, Guru nothing you wrote denies 'your' second layer of Dominican Culture. Why can't anybody define it for you? It is there lack of customs passed down from generation to generation, ethics, morals values, family structure, religious beliefs, interaction with our environment, or government systems? If all that is lacking, you are right, there is not Dominican culture.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Thank you Lautaro. I though that everybody knew, not that was a secret, that "masters" and "slaves" of the spanish colony were equally poor, and that both work side by side in the cattle ranching system. You said right, It is an act of complete dishonesty to say that they operated under the same harsh basis of the ones of the french colony and that we were in need of a Haitian invasion to end slavery in the east.

Not only him, a lot of poster here do need more information, not only about the ups and downs of the sugar plantation economy on the DR, but about Dominican history and it’s a mystery to my, why they didn't get it at school, as the rest of us did.
Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 10:27 AM
From: United States
of the Dominican Republic. You the people of montegrande, was mixed with mulattoe and blacks that were freed by the haitian invasion. They have been free men for more than 20 years as many k's throughout the territory. While they were happy that the haitian yoke on their land and the system of nationalization was over, they were very afraid of having spaniars take over again.

Once they hear the first phrases of the declaration when the founding fathers mentioned the Spanish, "as Spanish people we liberated ourselves" these mulattoes revolted and their approached sanchez y mella who identified with the mulattoes themselves and presented their grievances. During this meeting it was secure that slavery will never exist on the republic's soil ever again and to make them happy the first ever decree of our young republic was to name the leader of montegrande as the general of the Republic's arm forces. I love this part of our history. Laut, I promise I consider your offer, PM me.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Dagtan, Dominican history. By the time the west colony flourished, the east side was mainly populated by Spanish, mestizos, (Spanish/tainos, Spanish/blacks and black/tainos) and a black slaves minority . Neither there was religious fanaticism at the time. And maybe there was not a national sentiment, but a unity sentiment. They we here, they belonged, they shared almost everything.

Written by: dagtan, 28 Oct 2009 10:32 AM
From: United States
Mica, once again you are coming and distording my posts, show me were I said that the haitian invasion was a necessity, please stay out if you are not going to contribute to further the exchange. I clearly stated that the only good about the haitian invasion was the liberation fo slavery and slavery is slavery be it a house slave or field slave, the person is being held against their will. Mica, please do not spoil the exchange, believe it or not Lautaro and I are having lots of fun right now. Read my post once more and once more and then interpret them correctly, please do me that favor.

I
Written by: Pepe32, 28 Oct 2009 10:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic
"Entraron a la universidad ,pero la universidad no entró en ellos"

Bueno me alegro que Lautaro con su balance haya entrado porque los otros solo repiten letra por letra la historia patria de Haití sin consideraciones.La historia es algo complejo y fluido y todo el que construya una historia de visión única no esta hablando de historia sino de propaganda .Desafortunadamente todo el que venga desde la perspectiva torcida del Afrocentrismo solo ve un lado de la historia y esta dispuesto a pensar como los racistas Europeos (pero a lo inverso) que los suyos eran infalibles y los demás nada bueno hacían y desde luego todo el que mira de esta perspectiva torcida e injusta no tiene idea de la historia completa .

En fin vamos a ver como tuercen las cosas pero yo tendré que perderme el desenlace ya que viajo esta tarde y vuelvo en dos semanas si todo sale bien. Micaela sigue dando con tu manera tranquila pero segura la respuesta a estos individuos porque los tienes frustrados .

Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 10:54 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Once again you said something and mean another?

Written by: dagtan, "Boyer ended slavery on the entire island…our fore fathers lived in a slave owning society and had no intentions of ending such evil institution...I believe that if we in the DR teach our true history, which is indeed closer to the slave owning system and rebellions against the colonization of Spain than against haiti, maybe our relationship with haiti would have been better. It is incredible how these two people lived in peace, even after the infractions of occupation and how it has declined over the years.

And once again you are trying to tell me what to do. Why should I stay out of it because you said so? Are you the owner of it and I am not aware? Why don't you better tell me what layer of our culture is missing, because we are not grateful for the Haitian invasion?
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 12:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
dagtan said: "You indicate that most of the land on eastern side was owned by the chuych, if you look as the southeastern territories that is not the case."

Yes, I'm aware of the existence of the maroon communities on both sides of the border (the most important ones being the one of Cul de Sac mountain range on the western part, and the one of Bahoruco or Maniel de Neyba in our part of island). As much as the maroon communities hated and despised the europeans, they were no friends of the rising black republic either, believe me. Both Toussaint and Dessalines had plenty of trouble in getting the reins over those maroons (specially one called L'amour Desrances), cuz' they threatened the economy of the new republic with their marauding ways. Toussaint tried to appease the ones of Bahoruco by establishing the town of Barahona specially for them (yes, this is something that is not taught in our schools), but he didn't have such luck with the ones of the Cul de Sac (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 28 Oct 2009 12:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) whom would only be partially controlled after Dessalines beheaded L'Amour Desrances during the final meeting of the black chiefs before the final offensive against the remaining northern french outposts in late 1803. These maroons would pose a threat again when the country split itself in two after the assassination of Dessalines, when they would be hired by Christophe as his rear guard mercenaries in order to keep the southern republic of Petion besieged on two fronts. Their final destruction would come after Boyer unified the island in 1822.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 4:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I am surprised, I learned in Historia Dominicana in 6th grade and in High School that Toussaint founded Barahona in 1802, after taking possession of the east in the name of France, and that the town was renamed as Santa Cruz de Barahona, after the independence in1844 and turned into the military post.

I guess that even thus my catholic school was not Jesuits, I did received a good education.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 4:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As a child a heard my grandma's tales about cimarrones, mobile Indian warrior that hide in the mountains, using ambushes and guerrilla fighting to fend off the Spanish. They communicated by drums and imitating bird calls. She even claimed that some still lived by La Otra Banda in Santiago and sometimes could be seen taking water from El Yaque.

Later at school I learned maroon settlements existed almost everywhere in Americas from Brazil to El Maniel in DR, where it all stated. Slaves ran away and founded settlements with social and political structures, to be able to keep out the colonist and their independence. They never stated as big towns, but with few runaways, that little by little increased. Notice that when I said slaves, I referred to Tainos, there were not African slaves in the island at the time. When they came, they joined them. Later the French African slaves also escaped, either founding their way toward the maroons communities already existing or founding their own.
Written by: Micaela, 28 Oct 2009 4:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: josean, Roselio Díaz dijo que un grupo de DOMINICANOS que andan en jeepetas utilizan haitianos en la tala de árboles para carbón y madera y que cuando se descubre la actividad culpan a los haitianos que terminan siendo las víctimas.

Josean, check this: Dominican-Haiti border burns at a US$2.5M yearly rate
"a simple yet effective chain to make, traffic and illegally market charcoal in Haiti and notes that the 200 producers are mostly Haitians, helped by 12 Dominican truck drivers, to produce every month around 37,000 sacks, sold to less than five Haitian retailers, subsequent transport and sale in Port au Prince. through lake Azuéi.”

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....rder-burns-at-a-US25M-yearly-rate

See that? 200 producers are mostly of Haitians, helped by 12 Dominican truck drivers and it takes routes towards Haiti, for subsequent transport and sale in Port au Prince. Do you still believe, like Roselio, that Haitians are v
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