From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
this should be the thread of the day ......will it be the proverbial mojon in the abanico......stand clear
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
Show us a picture of Sarkos old lady ......inquiring minds want to see her.....and piggies like Tonyj also want to see the photos
Written by: jonbonz, 3 Dec 2009 7:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic, santo domingo
I wander if france would allow 30% of its population to be illegle illiterate africans. If so the the advice ab9out the border could be taken seriously.
Written by: brucebb, 3 Dec 2009 8:34 AM
From: Canada
why dont france take in a few 100,000 from haiti
every 6 months ??? haiti use to be franch colony
thay should be takeing care of the people dot he rest of the world
From: Germany, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz
LOL:
If we are asked to demilitarize our border, doesn't it imply that we merge ???
I think that does not need further explanation !!!
Are we that fool ! LOL:
Written by: telemeco, 3 Dec 2009 8:51 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
These French,,,wtf of they think they are, what kind of advice is this, in fact we should send more troop to the border
Written by: bernies, 3 Dec 2009 9:11 AM
From: United States, key west fl
hey guys remember that is dt. writing and editing this news and do not have a good track record when it comes about reporting facts. so may be they say something way out different than this.
Written by: vacanos, 3 Dec 2009 9:18 AM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Leonel "He justified the presence of Dominican troops along the border, especially to combat drug trafficking in that zone. "
Unbelievable so if not for the drug problem he would had think about taking the little troops from the Fronteras? Thank God Balaguer is dead so he doesn't have to hear our president explaining other head of state why he do thing in his country.
Once the French, Canadian and British (white-guilt) the usual agenda pushing troll-country confused Balaguer strong tatic with racism and Baalaguer put them right in their place. Balaguer was a visionary in his time he knew it and say it in the 80's this first world country's true agenda against DR. He was the last politician who cared about his patria. Look at our lefty-politician nowdays no pride in his country to assert what is the right in the sovereign of an nation.
Watch this video from 1994
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLZxI3ryYoAFrom: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
Keep in mind the last time we were in the news international it had to do with gunning down treecutters on the border by pseudo military types
Written by: juanb, 3 Dec 2009 9:28 AM
From: Dominican Republic
These french idiots, who are in large part responsible for the mess, are now urging us to surrender to the problem. Well, actually it figures. Who knows more about surrenduring than those losers.
Written by: vacanos, 3 Dec 2009 9:33 AM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
I had been saying all along if we ended up in fusion with Haiti Leonel will be remembered as a martyr in the new Republic and people like Duarte, Duverge, Mella, Sanchez, Balaguer as evil racist. We all knew the presidency of Hipolito in 2000 didn’t care about the frontier even though they have the most member of pro-Haitians in their party they were in for the most part the money. But Leonel in his second stint turned out to be a facilitator appeaser pacifist.
Written by: dominica, 3 Dec 2009 9:42 AM
From: United States
I wouldn't put it in the same words as everyone else has but for the most part it seems like you guys have right. No options and LF shouldn't even entertain notions like this.
From: United States
The writing is on the wall this is only the start of a begining, that commenced a long time ago: Just stay tune folks and wait for future developments.
Written by: antonioj, 3 Dec 2009 10:02 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"He justified the presence of Dominican troops along the border, especially to combat drug trafficking in that zone."
He's implying illiegal immigration is ok, Remarkable. What else Lie-o-nel is not saying, the price may not be rigth yet, the us, france,spain may recall their loan, then you are in big doodoo.
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
There will always be a Frenchman there when he needs you "..........Tonyj still wants to see the photos of Sarkos old lady in a bikini the swine that he is
Written by: antonioj, 3 Dec 2009 10:12 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Blut, sammy,sarko, max bellerive, tiger have hot wifey. You need to give me some wise advise, what does these guys have and I do not ??
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Antonioj:
Cry baby cry; are you trying to victimize your people saying that Dominican republic is supposed to take care of the haitians problems because We had loans from these countries and therefore Ha
itians are allowed to do whatever in Dominican republic because your are the poor, victims, blacks
and we are the racist; i thougt you were smarter than this.
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 10:24 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
I know many of us have a very low approval of Leonel but the guy is not as dumb as we think to allow the military to be taken off the border unless he wants to be the next Zelaya. He doesn't want to be remembered as the guy who in the 90s promised the 21st century to DR and in the 2000s delivered a civil war. The question we should be asking our selves is Why is he releasing this information and now after the trip to Paris i mean it would serve no purpose but to give him self some credit in the Dominican public as a guy who look out for our interest. Now i'm more scare as to what the next move maybe be and who will provide the loan since after this statement i doubt France is going to be loaning and under what terms is the next Bank is going to provide this loan.
Remember : Keep your eye on the ball when you dancing in the flames. this is one of those moments where we have to watch the next move by Leonel.
From: United States
France, spew..... Stand up and help.
Man1 : "Do you know what the French are well know for?"
Man2 : "I don't know. I give up !"
Man1 ; "Exactly !"
Written by: dolo1, 3 Dec 2009 10:35 AM
From: United States
This is all part of the long term plan to dissolve and weaken Dominican sovereignty.
It will happen eventually. The large loans given the DR by the IMF and WorldBank are meant to drive the countyr into a debt crises so that it will have to do the bidding of the international elite
-open borders with Haiti - una isla - un pais - is the goal
Written by: Juango, 3 Dec 2009 11:04 AM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
off subject....sorry, but who in the hell dresses her? Tacky at best ! Margarita is proof, that expensive threads don't make you classy (can't buy class). Look at all the press photos of her on this trip... amazing, she looks like a campo chica that went wild in a fashionable upscale boutique....
now back the the serious subject at hand...
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
The french should know that the dominican military is station at the border to FACILITATE drug trafficking, human smuggling and to collect taxes for themselves, that was the priced cash cow given to them by the triumbirato after they beat the brains out of the communist herd called constitucionalistas and their lider Fco Alberto Caamaño, ever since the 1965 revolution the border with somalia belongs to the dominican military.
Written by: vacanos, 3 Dec 2009 11:10 AM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
belly
I give Leonel credit when is due. But this Haitians problem had escalated to an unprecedented level on his watch. Solange Pie and the evil Jesuit have more to say and their word is more powerful than what Leonel have to say regarding our Haitian's problem.
Leonel had been just brutal. I knew it from the begining that he did not carry the same stick as Balaguer once did as he used to put every nation in its place including the USA when these powerful nation tried to impose their will on our small country. But to allow another head of state pep talk him to demilitiraze the fronteras common. Balaguer would had a field day with this Sarkozky. Starting on why France closing the border on the Africans.
These politicians only interest is the money. They are teasing us to see where we let them go. Leonel is no dummie he knows where the Dominicans for the most part stand on our Haitians's problem. They just doing it little by little to see where we crack.
Written by: antonioj, 3 Dec 2009 11:21 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: JRRubirosa, 3 Dec 2009 10:13 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Antonioj:
Cry baby cry; are you trying to victimize your people saying that Dominican republic is supposed to take care"
JR you are making assumption, re-read you may understand better, read in context demand by the developing nation and to whom do you owe money (IMF).
Written by: xwill7, 3 Dec 2009 11:25 AM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
30,000 troops should be sent to the border
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 11:41 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Vacano
We no longer have Balaguer and all we got is Leonel who has done goods and bads. The illegal immigration problem falls on 2 people the business people and CESFRONT who proven to be a failed department at protecting the border. DR has held the position to be a different nation for 200 years. The time where this could have taken place as merging the 2 nations by force or by political pressure is long gone and not coming back. We have to feel good that in the times where this could had taken place we had the people in power with enough stick in their hand to not allow it to happen. France even though is a rich country has very little influences on DR or at least nothing compare to USA who is now not in a position to try it either. So i just don't see it happening. When both economies were at the same level that was the time this bad idea could have taken place but today is way to evident as being bad for DR that it will just cause a civil war any way we look at it.
From: United States, Brooklyn
As if we don't have enough Haitians already!
From: United States, Brooklyn
A WAR Belly is just what we need.... DOminicans only know of our struggle by ways of books... They don't see the menace of these people and their silent present in the DR.... A war would sure aweken the people to the reality and demand permanent changes!
From: United States, Brooklyn
Lets start slowly deporting them ALL, and led the French assume responsibility for them!
Written by: vacanos, 3 Dec 2009 12:32 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Belly "DR has held the position to be a different nation for 200 years. The time where this could have taken place as merging the 2 nations by force or by political pressure is long gone and not coming back"
Belly
Fusion is the word Belly. Wait until they become a sizeable minority. When they become a 5 millions minority. Then we will become the latin america KOSOVO. By that time if we try to do anything to reclaim our country back it will be futile since these powerful first world country will drop the hammer on us and will intervene in our country to protect "the victims" right. Then we will be stuck to wait for the hour in the future for the fusion of both country.
From: United States, words of wisdom from the nutcracker
the french are nothing more then cowards, and losers at everything they do. How dare they ask leonel to demilitarized the border, in world war 2 the french where the biggest pussies when the nazis step foot on there soil they gave up before the fight even started? lol what a bunch of pendejos vamos a ponerle los haitanos en la cabesa de los frances
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 12:57 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Vacano
Fusion is the word Belly. Wait until they become a sizeable minority. When they become a 5 millions minority. Then we will become the latin america KOSOVO.
That's why i have been saying that we have to act smart and quick. So first we have to concentrate on the guy that is bringing them here into DR who are the business people and second we have to concentrate on the people responsible to take them back to their land which is CESFRONT. If we concentrate to much on the fusion and the whirlwind of words then we will be loosing on the 2 targets that we have to focus. Which is business hiring them and Cesfront who is not taking them back and protecting the border. If we unite for one common purpose then this problem is not as hard as it seems. Los Haitises cement plant should be a good example of what a union of citizens for a common purpose in DR can do. Provincia Duarte has never had a illegal immigration problem and nobody as why? is because people are willing to act quick.
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 1:01 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Remember talking only solves communication problems and a plan on paper serves for nothing until put into action.
Written by: dominica, 3 Dec 2009 1:14 PM
From: United States
by the sound of most posts here I thought we were getting invaded by ferocious Aliens from the planet Mars. We are dealing with human beings here by the way keep that in mind. The modern day world posits that people are ultimatey responsible for their actions but neglect to understand that there is a wider, and grander, problem here. One haitian kills a dominican and all dominicans want to lynch the entire hatian race. One hatian crosses the border and its world war 3. But the issue here is that it is not just 1 hatian. It is a whole nation that is seeking to come accross a border. Why? is there a reason for them to want to come to DR? is it because they just want to cause us pain or misery? is it that they just hate dominicans and want to come work for $2 and then butcher their slave masters? I doubt its anyone of these but I do think there are reasons and solutions. Fix the WHY's and then you won't need to worry about the WHO's...
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 1:31 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Dominica
Fix the WHY's and then you won't need to worry about the WHO's.
If you haven't notice and i guess by your way of talking here there are 2 countries involve and we don't have have to fix their WHY? we have to fix ours and they have to fix theirs is called self-responsibility but i wouldn't expect some child mind like yours to understand that yet but eventually once you stop watching Dora the explorer and start watching daily and political problems news then you may come close to understand. So if I come to your house does that mean you will pay me a rented apartment and buy me food so i don't come to your house or can we do it like normal human and split the responsibility that each country has to provide for their own people.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Mr. Sarkozy, we are glad to conduct business with you, and would very much like to expand those opportunities. However, regarding our sovereignty, we will be direct and ask you to mind your own business. Our border is an issue of greatest national security and we must protect it by all means necessary.
A nation, to be accorded such title, must possess a difined border, language and culture. You French [my direct ancestry!!!!] are naturally pompous and very fiercely protective of your culture and language; in fact, you legislate it! Your language is the only one forced upon the people. As for protection of your borders, history is not really on your side.
Perhaps you really don't realize that, as a power, you are not really as important as you might think, and you are not too far from irrelevance.
Stay out of our sovereignty issues, or keep your money. Our sovereignty is not for sale-even if we should have to exercise our own Bastille. Maybe we should.
MJEV.
Written by: antonioj, 3 Dec 2009 1:40 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Dominica, go back to the asylum where you escape from ???
Written by: msjersey, 3 Dec 2009 1:45 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
The turd will hit the fan one day, and is gonna be ugly. Let's brace fo the worse and be ready to fight.
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 1:51 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Gloma
Great post there. The funny part is that the most protective country when it comes to language and culture is trying to tell us that's ok to loose ours. France have tried very hard to eliminate the country named Haiti because they know that for as long as the name Republic of Haiti exist they will be the laughingstock of the first world countries militarily and morally speaking. I can Imagen what a conversation about wars would look like between Israel and France. you got your butt whip by who?
Written by: vacanos, 3 Dec 2009 2:48 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Belly
I think we are on par how it should be implemented but at the same time doesn't it be prudent and smart if Leonel's word meant something that when he raise his voice "Not one illegal crossing the border or I will deal with it" But he is not going to do it you know it and I know it. He is not that kind of person. He like to please everybody. It will kill him if he get label as Balaguer used to be label by these agenda people as racist. Like Generoso said here once when Balaguer said not even a fly could pass thru the frontier a fly will not pass.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
@ Belly
you are a wiseman, Its fair to assume you understand chess.
Old school
I never thought you and I can agreed on anything but I must say I have a new level of respect for you my friend. Glad to see you taking a deep look into the mirror this morning.
PS. It's kind of hard to come in as a beggar and refusing the demand of those you are trying to beg is ain't it.
Side note: that statement released is an old politician trick. Sako already knew
LF had to make that statement at home. Got to thow the populist at home a bone, he his so dumb he will be happy with that. It will be a long time before he realized he got bamboozo. Again a mind is a Terrible thing to waste.
If you still waiting for a wall to be built keep on dreaming . If you finding your self longing for those days of your beloved Mr B news flash the world has changed friend. It's globalization 2020 .
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Cont
On the issue of the border and elligal migration why his LF more quiet than a church mouse. Does anybody here care to explain? MSjersey,Pepe32,how about you Vacanos, Atabey any theses from class you will like to post on this question today young lad.
From: United States
The European vision is a decision, for a fusion, to a Haitian solution.
Written by: clinker, 3 Dec 2009 3:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
LF, enjoy the food and culture. ENJOY THE FOOD AND CULTURE. france and the french are arrogant sometimes but they deserve to be. soon you will be back in the land lacking advanced culture, and pollo, pollo, pollo! plus all the rice you want, and guys selling syrup and ice or boiled bananas on the street. yum yum.
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
pat-vidrio
why don't you take a brake and tend to your wall street dealings or take your infinity for a spin
instead of trying to brake gouletcolonial record for most BS posted on this website.
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
clinker
don't forget we also specialize in producing big mandingo men, which is the reason why you can't get your culo out of the island.
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 4:03 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
PatDiamond
you are a wiseman, Its fair to assume you understand chess.
Thank you for your words. I do play chess when ever possible and the political game is kind of like a chess game. The first i said to my self when i saw this news was Why is LF telling us this? to me there are 2 intentions to this either we going to get a bad loan for the Metro or he is feeling the pressure that is building up from the illegal immigration because one of DR most prestigious News Paper Listin Diario is no longer afraid to post news about the big problem the illegal immigration is causing to the country. I was surprise to see Listin Diario talking about illegal immigration but then found out Mr Castillo has been putting pressure on them. which is good because now other smaller news paper are following the lead of Listin Diario which has been lead by Dominican Today in the English news sources about DR. Thank you DT.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Old Shool
brother,brother today I come in peace just a neighbor making friendly observation. Beside I seat in front of these monitors all day, you guys on this forrum keeps me entertain. Seriously is it fair to say the statement by the head of LF party a few weeks ago on this subject was only a primer for the masses. Is it fair to expect a solidarity speech from your capital soon, and afterward the Mia cupa about we had no choice were bullied into this.
Is this story going to be like the one where the new hot chica finding her self walking on air acting like a prima Donna because all of a suddent she is wearing Gucci,Prada and being in the limelight.AWns up finding her self dumb founded when her sponsor let her know there is a matter of a few tricks she will have to perform with certain gentleman In order to keep partying like this.
PS. It's ok not to like everything you see when you look into that mirror man, we all have flaws. We are all third world bananas man.
Written by: Belly, 3 Dec 2009 4:10 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Vacano
The reason why Leonel word don't mean much locally is because people are starting to figure him out as just a talker not a doer or all smoke no fire i should say. Leonel has cornered him self and is trying to please everybody and the recession that's going on is making it worse for him to justify to the Dominican public how the immigration problem has gotten to this point. But this is good because last time he felt the heat with the electrical problem he actually made a good choice and hope he makes some changes at CESFRONT because General Gil has proven to be a failure there and is not protecting the border at all. Both you and I have the same intentions which is to end illegal immigration now we just have to focus on the cause and the cure for long term.
Written by: msjersey, 3 Dec 2009 4:11 PM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
Patdemon, I don't have what you're looking for, and even if I have, I would not give it to you.
LF is playing politician with his counterpar frenchfries.
As bad as Trujillo was, and judging by what this politicos now a day do; the guy loved his country.
From: United States
"Cuando el río suena es porque agua trae."
And yes no doubt, Trujillo was a nacionalist, his approach was wrong though, but he did love his country, I am sure, maybe even a little too much for his own good.
From: United States, New Haven, CT
Pero es que a nadie le da verguenza ponerse de lambon en RD?
Why must we always go to outside sources for aid resolving internal conflicts?
I mean even with the medical salaries fiasco they had to hire outside consultants?
How the hell would they know the standard of living in DR if they only vacation there?
We need to try our own problems and create contingency planning and processes not just copy everyone else...
Written by: OGNYC, 3 Dec 2009 5:40 PM
From: United States
If the DR Haitian border is demilitarized, that will mean the end of DR. There is no way that DR can take on a massive invasion of Haitians. Can any one in this site tell me how the union of these two countries makes any sense to DR Haiti is far worse than a failed state, with no viable economic resources a population with no order.
Any good that the Haitian’s do for DR is far out weighted by the enormous amount of bad. The fact that this is even being said is an indication how weak DR is. DR is weak because its president is looking for money from other countries so it is forced to listen and do what it is told in order to get those funds.
Which gets at my original premise if DR needs loans from other countries now, imagine what it will need if DR is united to the poorest country in North America.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
MSJersey
Glad to see you have been taking my advice. Once you keep taking your meds,you will be fine glad to see the turret is abatting , your thoughts are getting more coherent.
PS. Frenchy is one of the more powerful members of the EU. It is fair to assume his views are also the view of the rest of the gang. Give me your thoughts on this can you go a little deeper than one paragraph on this one?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Belly,
Thanks for kind comments.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Let's invite our friend Sarkozy to DR on November 7th 2010 to sign the loan agreement at Palo Hincado monument in El Seibo.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
Believe me, as poor as Haiti is, this idea of making the whole island a fusion of one state does not resonate with the majority of Haitians either.
I have asked around, as well as there are several census surveys have been conducted both in Haiti and in Haitian communities abroad whom feel that this would never, ever be not only a possibility, but also not feasibly a wise idea. So there, the pre-conceive notions that most of us Dominicans have about assuming that Haiti would welcome such idea with open arms is absurd. When Haiti the talks for bilateralism, joint efforts, and greater relations are mentioned this doe not mean that both nations are trying to "UNIFIED" both sovereignties together as a one fused state.
No, it means rather that both governments must be engaged in great diplomacy that could be on all fronts and dynamics to see possible way to solve the ills that perhaps both of them face (and believe it or not) socially, economically and even politically.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
What most of us Dominicans often try to ignore and at times even deny is that, Haiti's social ills and lack of economy or even its political unrest or instabilities are not good things for DR.
Those plaguing aspects of Haiti are also contagious impediments which might be dragging on DR's prosperity as well in a sense thus namely the influx of Haitian migrants flocking into DR. What we must be aware of as facts is that the complexity of the conditions of next door neighbor Haiti cannot be a situation we Dominicans can just wish away by erecting a wall at the border.
Such idea, regardless of us DR being indeed a sovereign independent nation, will further alienate us as it will also further reaffirm the negative views already existed about DR being prejudicially discriminative toward Haiti.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
Atabey,
Honestly I did not see it. Where have you sent it in my inbox, in here or in a posted thread in the forum?
What I do know is that a "wall" will in the end become a justified claim and means to be used against us regardless of what little social assistance we offer Haitians in DR that they are not receiving in Haiti. This "wall" will overshadow all previous diplomatic efforts between the two nations, as any further Human Right violations that occur will be worse continued to be seeing on perspectives that will always and forever be assumed by amnesty groups and international bodies as acts base on racial or old held resentments premises which many are portraying or have accused DR of already.
Leonel Fernandez, although some Dominicans may not agree with his approaches, understands that and whether he means it or not - his constant advocacy in asking for assistant for Haiti is something that is also in DR's best interests as well in so many ways.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
Arebey, I have just read the article and listened to the audio which is almost the very same thing said in the article except with the addition extended coverage interview of the guest. So indeed, you can see what I have been saying that most majority world politicians as well as can logically understand by most of us on here that cohesion and corporation between the two nations are in fact needed.
A devastatingly poor Haiti can never mean good news for DR regardless of what radical extreme conservative views most Dominicans might have toward Haiti, the situation or the condition or far whatever reasons might be presumed prejudices or not. Haiti's plaguing ills cannot be wished away by us Dominicans and because they are in a deep hole and so much incapacitated right now id more of a reason why they need our best attention and participation so that it does not spread badly on our side. Know that, an unstable Haiti will always be bad new for DR because of our close proximity.
Written by: Belly, 4 Dec 2009 1:53 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Tanbellamami
Are you trying to label "Most Dominicans as radical extreme conservative having prejudice towards Haiti". I'm just asking before i respond to you.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
"A wall will never happen. Firstly, too expensive; and secondly too much international pressure and image troubles for DR. President Fernandez has spoken in support of Haiti, in fact he's pushing for Haiti to be included in the CIN and Leonel Fernández reclamó la incorporación de Haití a la Comunidad Iberoamericana de Naciones, asunto que pudo discutir con el rey Juan Carlos la noche anterior en una cena que los Reyes ofrecieron en su honor."
Exactly, I have said that. However, the expense for it is not what I question so much; but it is the known fact that there is not a strong consensus that will be accepted fro that both in DR or internationally. Due to the fact that most in DR knows that ecologically and commercially both nations are interdependently interconnected. Many may seem reluctant to see what he is doing, but in the end, his approach right now is the best one to possibly solve most of DR's Haitian migration issues which may worsen if there is no stable Haiti.
Written by: manolin, 4 Dec 2009 2:04 AM
From: Dominican Republic
stupid, the iberics are España and Portugal, France is not iberic.
Second, if he goes to ask for money to the frenchs, they says him ,ok wipe out the guards from the border for my chimps go in DR easy, only to an irresponsible president can be done such proposal i dont imagine any body telling that to Balaguer or to Antonio Guzman
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
It is not to say that Haiti's ills are DR's problems or that it means DR should be the one dealing with them, no. This is the most absurd, arrogant and presumptuous way to look at it which is wrong.
All this means is that DR is beginning to see this as a DR's potential threat that a Haiti the way Haiti is right now or worser has and will most definitely become a DR's problem simply because an ill stable Haiti would only means more influx into DR which we cannot bear... So, Haiti and DR need to be more engaged in more solidarity projects as it should be pressed and pressured on the Haitian government to become more visually and directly pro-active in this.
Believe me, I am hoping that in 10 to 20 years top if all bilateralism and joint efforts are taken accordingly that the whole island will be the envy of the Caribbean indeed... already it is the most visited and focused-on island in the whole world with the richest history.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
Yes,
I am one person who is most invested in reading news concerning the matters of the whole island. I know, read and observe the conditions of Haiti as I do that of DR.
I am well aware that indeed DR has a handful already, but it will get a lot fuller if Haiti's situational condition is not alleviated somehow and I agree, those mentioned countries should help, but I am challenging Haitians to help their own country by getting more involved and partake in the endeavors of their country. DR and/or the World International bodies can only do so much to help change the ill dynamics of Haiti toward change...
Nonetheless, the foremost initiative has to come from the Haitians wanting and desiring it more to achieve it and getting themselves from this abyss indeed.
Written by: manolin, 4 Dec 2009 2:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic
the problem is the high intelectual haitians dont mix with their people, because they have not common purposes, only Aristide may fix Haiti , but americans dont like him because they think is a communist, but a poor lose people cannot wake up without a strong leader and Aristide is so, leadership is the power for do things in a country, if we are now depresing our life and economy is because we have a false leader and a false man lie-onel
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
If any of you understand French or Creole, this here
http://www.metropolehaiti.com is a great site for news from Haiti. I believe Haitians are aware of the things they must and should do to change Haiti, but financially of course they are strapped.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
However and insensitively enough, many of us Dominicans act like we are on a separate island from Haiti or that we are invincible to or shielded from possibly what is happening in Haiti right now if we do not maintain the politics of DR well enough. As I recall, we were once almost just as unstable as Haiti is today politically.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
We try to put all the prospects for DR's ills on this migration issue (which I am not saying is not a burden indeed), but if we do not go about business right and holding our leaders to higher standards, we might end up in the condition or the situation Haiti is in today with the differences that we may or will be a poor nation, wow, with a metro and many sky scrappers...?
That s what we are counting on as what makes us better than our neighbor? News flash, those are all mostly foreign investments properties whom have invested billions which in turn those foreigners can deem as interests they will try to protect at all times, in other words their deep investments can be influential that will almost reserve them "say sos" in our nation's politics indirectly.
Let us not be naive to that, most of our citizens are being made strangers on their own land which is being occupied by foreign invested developers and tourists. When will we address those as valid issues, huh?
From: Dominican Republic, Cabarete
As much as we believe that Haiti should resolve its own problems as we do ours, but without greater collaborations of both nations diplomatically, we will always face the possibility of being dragged down indeed by our neighbor ills which we hold so much resentments toward or perhaps we are being too arrogant, stubborn and naive to see and realize that their impending ills could affect us just as much as it already they are...
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 4:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey,I'm sorry but Leonel is out of his mind if he thinks Haiti can join the Comunidad IBERO AMERICANA ,Ibero (Spain and Portugal) and the nations of Spanish and Portuguese language.
Haiti does not qualify anymore than the US,Jamaica,Guyana or Belize...
Leonel ha perdido el norte ,lo demostró con lo de Honduras y su inacción ante la bomba de tiempo en la frontera y dentro de la nación ,si bien vale abogar por Haití ya que nos conviene que salgan del atolladero no tiene sentido alguno reunirlos en un grupo donde no tienen cabida.
Haití para los Haitianos y soluciones dentro de Haití pero tampoco tenemos que entrar a el atolladero sino hacer lo que convenga a la RD y basta.
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 4:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Tanfeamami ,please stop saying you are Dominican.Posting over and over with things that benefit Haiti does not make you a Dominican ,you are tilted all the way towards Haiti and while it is true that it is not to our (Dominicans) advantage to have Haiti in the crapper we cannot even carry our own and in many cases what is best for DR is not best for Haiti because if we really thought about DR there is no doubt that sending 90% of the Haitians back to Haiti would be good for DR but for Haiti it would be disastrous,you like all Haitians would not like that because it would hurt Haiti ,but as a Dominican we have to put OUR interests first and we frankly don´t need so many Haitians as labourers .
No se puede estar con Dios y con el diablo...
From: Dominican Republic, Civil Rights and Peace Activist for Our Dominican People
THIS IS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE!! THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES, LIKE SPAIN, who would NOT DARE TO ASK such thing! This is unbelievable!
The loan deal is not sealed yet?, and France already started imposing on us? French president and his bait money can go to HELL.
If Lionel makes this pact he will be known as Faustus Fernandus!
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 8:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Popon,the French know they caused this problem and they want to pay Leonel some "hush money " to make it go away!
Now if they really want to help they should take a million or so ,the same applies to Canada and "brother" Obama.
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 8:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
PS if Leonel even tries to he will be known as Zelaya part 2.
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 10:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey ,I agree and understand everything you wrote .In real life Leonel has to walk on a tightrope and make intelligent moves unfortunately if no real measures are taken soon his "go slow and careful approach" may bring Dominican society to a point of a major eruption effectively taking matters out of his hands.
We are sitting on a volcano which has been rumbling for many years and it can erupt at any time.
I understand Leonel's economic views and his forward thinking (much more Balaguer than Bosch) but in the matter of immigration I don't completely trust his instincts or his leanings especially when he had (or has) an ambassador in Haiti that supports unification with Haiti.
None of what Leonel is doing (positive) will mean anything if he does not take serious (legal and humanitarian )actions to resolve this issue because while we speak the numbers on the ground will overwhelm us eventually.
Written by: Pepe32, 4 Dec 2009 10:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic
As far as the Comunidad IberoAmericana I think it is way of base .
Also (My opinion) with massive European ,American and other investments I don't think they would want to risk their interests (billions of dollars and Euros) to punish DR for Haiti's sake .They might make the public condemnation (bla bla bla) but wink their understanding.
Owing money or having investments in small amounts is weakness but when the numbers are large the investors in the developed world will also pressure to protect their interests.So Leonel has to ask for help for Haiti with one hand while he uses his other hand to start cleaning house.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Atabey
what is the origin of Jean H Charles
very good treads between you and Tan, serious dicussion about serious matter.
Few things that I need to bring to your attention. Contrary to what most on DT believe Haiti is not on the verge of Imploding. At the Moment Haiti have a second chance to move foward,the first was when Aristide return,but he was an imbecile who betrayed everything he everstood for. At the moment as stated by LF in France Haiti is experiencing a period of political stability under the Preval leadership. The good thing about his administration is the fact now the international community feels they have a realible partner on the ground which is one of the reason you see Bill Clinton is putting his reputation on the line.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Cont
At the moment Haiti is enjoying it's biggest injection of foreign investments. Digicel the Irish cell phone provider just made the biggest investment by one single company ever $200mil USD, Royal caribean just open their new pier at Labadie in the north $50mil usd on that project. Dec 3 their ship the biggest cruise ship in the world Oasis of the sea made her maiden voyage to labadie. The national phone company is in the process of being privatized, one of DR largest road construction company is building our roads. Currently there is a south Korean company who just team up with some local investors to build a power plant in cite soleil, they have broke ground already. Finally last month according to the world bank Haiti and Giyanna are the only two countries in the region whose GDP have increased during this world economic crisis I was suprised by that. In the report this is acredited to their economic leadership.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Cont
Contrary to most here Haitian are dead against the idea of being one with DR. After all we are the Africans who rather be free in our graves than live as slaves, dirt poor or not that who we are.
One thing I respect with LF is his observation of Haiti ( the election cicle issue and the need for the UN to stay for certain lenght of time and so on) . The period of coup etat in Haiti is over. What is needed is political maturity in the legislative body. Another 5 years of political stability we will
be on our way.
FYI Haiti's economy begain to deteriorate until around 83, we did not take heed to the world bank
studies early on which felt that everybody in the region needed to focus in tourism unstead of their traditional exports. Haiti's golden age was the 50's under Paul Maglore, that chap made the cover of Time magazin as man of the year. Under the Duvalier are dark
days began. There are some great footage of what Haiti was like during that time on YouTube.
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
PS. I do not believed anybody would be investing in a country if it was deem
unsteable no matter what is promise to them. Just like the 600 int'l investors who
flew in for the investor conference at the Caribe hotel in petionville where schock
that they PDA's work fine like they do back home when they step off the plane in P-au-P.
I believe must here will be suprised to know yes these are the actual facts on the ground next door.
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every 6 months ??? haiti use to be franch colony
thay should be takeing care of the people dot he rest of the world
If we are asked to demilitarize our border, doesn't it imply that we merge ???
I think that does not need further explanation !!!
Are we that fool ! LOL:
These French,,,wtf of they think they are, what kind of advice is this, in fact we should send more troop to the border
Unbelievable so if not for the drug problem he would had think about taking the little troops from the Fronteras? Thank God Balaguer is dead so he doesn't have to hear our president explaining other head of state why he do thing in his country.
Once the French, Canadian and British (white-guilt) the usual agenda pushing troll-country confused Balaguer strong tatic with racism and Baalaguer put them right in their place. Balaguer was a visionary in his time he knew it and say it in the 80's this first world country's true agenda against DR. He was the last politician who cared about his patria. Look at our lefty-politician nowdays no pride in his country to assert what is the right in the sovereign of an nation.
Watch this video from 1994
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLZxI3ryYoA
He's implying illiegal immigration is ok, Remarkable. What else Lie-o-nel is not saying, the price may not be rigth yet, the us, france,spain may recall their loan, then you are in big doodoo.
Cry baby cry; are you trying to victimize your people saying that Dominican republic is supposed to take care of the haitians problems because We had loans from these countries and therefore Ha
itians are allowed to do whatever in Dominican republic because your are the poor, victims, blacks
and we are the racist; i thougt you were smarter than this.
Remember : Keep your eye on the ball when you dancing in the flames. this is one of those moments where we have to watch the next move by Leonel.
Man1 : "Do you know what the French are well know for?"
Man2 : "I don't know. I give up !"
Man1 ; "Exactly !"
It will happen eventually. The large loans given the DR by the IMF and WorldBank are meant to drive the countyr into a debt crises so that it will have to do the bidding of the international elite
-open borders with Haiti - una isla - un pais - is the goal
now back the the serious subject at hand...
The french should know that the dominican military is station at the border to FACILITATE drug trafficking, human smuggling and to collect taxes for themselves, that was the priced cash cow given to them by the triumbirato after they beat the brains out of the communist herd called constitucionalistas and their lider Fco Alberto Caamaño, ever since the 1965 revolution the border with somalia belongs to the dominican military.
I give Leonel credit when is due. But this Haitians problem had escalated to an unprecedented level on his watch. Solange Pie and the evil Jesuit have more to say and their word is more powerful than what Leonel have to say regarding our Haitian's problem.
Leonel had been just brutal. I knew it from the begining that he did not carry the same stick as Balaguer once did as he used to put every nation in its place including the USA when these powerful nation tried to impose their will on our small country. But to allow another head of state pep talk him to demilitiraze the fronteras common. Balaguer would had a field day with this Sarkozky. Starting on why France closing the border on the Africans.
These politicians only interest is the money. They are teasing us to see where we let them go. Leonel is no dummie he knows where the Dominicans for the most part stand on our Haitians's problem. They just doing it little by little to see where we crack.
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Antonioj:
Cry baby cry; are you trying to victimize your people saying that Dominican republic is supposed to take care"
JR you are making assumption, re-read you may understand better, read in context demand by the developing nation and to whom do you owe money (IMF).
We no longer have Balaguer and all we got is Leonel who has done goods and bads. The illegal immigration problem falls on 2 people the business people and CESFRONT who proven to be a failed department at protecting the border. DR has held the position to be a different nation for 200 years. The time where this could have taken place as merging the 2 nations by force or by political pressure is long gone and not coming back. We have to feel good that in the times where this could had taken place we had the people in power with enough stick in their hand to not allow it to happen. France even though is a rich country has very little influences on DR or at least nothing compare to USA who is now not in a position to try it either. So i just don't see it happening. When both economies were at the same level that was the time this bad idea could have taken place but today is way to evident as being bad for DR that it will just cause a civil war any way we look at it.
A WAR Belly is just what we need.... DOminicans only know of our struggle by ways of books... They don't see the menace of these people and their silent present in the DR.... A war would sure aweken the people to the reality and demand permanent changes!
Lets start slowly deporting them ALL, and led the French assume responsibility for them!
Belly
Fusion is the word Belly. Wait until they become a sizeable minority. When they become a 5 millions minority. Then we will become the latin america KOSOVO. By that time if we try to do anything to reclaim our country back it will be futile since these powerful first world country will drop the hammer on us and will intervene in our country to protect "the victims" right. Then we will be stuck to wait for the hour in the future for the fusion of both country.
Fusion is the word Belly. Wait until they become a sizeable minority. When they become a 5 millions minority. Then we will become the latin america KOSOVO.
That's why i have been saying that we have to act smart and quick. So first we have to concentrate on the guy that is bringing them here into DR who are the business people and second we have to concentrate on the people responsible to take them back to their land which is CESFRONT. If we concentrate to much on the fusion and the whirlwind of words then we will be loosing on the 2 targets that we have to focus. Which is business hiring them and Cesfront who is not taking them back and protecting the border. If we unite for one common purpose then this problem is not as hard as it seems. Los Haitises cement plant should be a good example of what a union of citizens for a common purpose in DR can do. Provincia Duarte has never had a illegal immigration problem and nobody as why? is because people are willing to act quick.
Fix the WHY's and then you won't need to worry about the WHO's.
If you haven't notice and i guess by your way of talking here there are 2 countries involve and we don't have have to fix their WHY? we have to fix ours and they have to fix theirs is called self-responsibility but i wouldn't expect some child mind like yours to understand that yet but eventually once you stop watching Dora the explorer and start watching daily and political problems news then you may come close to understand. So if I come to your house does that mean you will pay me a rented apartment and buy me food so i don't come to your house or can we do it like normal human and split the responsibility that each country has to provide for their own people.
Mr. Sarkozy, we are glad to conduct business with you, and would very much like to expand those opportunities. However, regarding our sovereignty, we will be direct and ask you to mind your own business. Our border is an issue of greatest national security and we must protect it by all means necessary.
A nation, to be accorded such title, must possess a difined border, language and culture. You French [my direct ancestry!!!!] are naturally pompous and very fiercely protective of your culture and language; in fact, you legislate it! Your language is the only one forced upon the people. As for protection of your borders, history is not really on your side.
Perhaps you really don't realize that, as a power, you are not really as important as you might think, and you are not too far from irrelevance.
Stay out of our sovereignty issues, or keep your money. Our sovereignty is not for sale-even if we should have to exercise our own Bastille. Maybe we should.
MJEV.
Great post there. The funny part is that the most protective country when it comes to language and culture is trying to tell us that's ok to loose ours. France have tried very hard to eliminate the country named Haiti because they know that for as long as the name Republic of Haiti exist they will be the laughingstock of the first world countries militarily and morally speaking. I can Imagen what a conversation about wars would look like between Israel and France. you got your butt whip by who?
I think we are on par how it should be implemented but at the same time doesn't it be prudent and smart if Leonel's word meant something that when he raise his voice "Not one illegal crossing the border or I will deal with it" But he is not going to do it you know it and I know it. He is not that kind of person. He like to please everybody. It will kill him if he get label as Balaguer used to be label by these agenda people as racist. Like Generoso said here once when Balaguer said not even a fly could pass thru the frontier a fly will not pass.
you are a wiseman, Its fair to assume you understand chess.
Old school
I never thought you and I can agreed on anything but I must say I have a new level of respect for you my friend. Glad to see you taking a deep look into the mirror this morning.
PS. It's kind of hard to come in as a beggar and refusing the demand of those you are trying to beg is ain't it.
Side note: that statement released is an old politician trick. Sako already knew
LF had to make that statement at home. Got to thow the populist at home a bone, he his so dumb he will be happy with that. It will be a long time before he realized he got bamboozo. Again a mind is a Terrible thing to waste.
If you still waiting for a wall to be built keep on dreaming . If you finding your self longing for those days of your beloved Mr B news flash the world has changed friend. It's globalization 2020 .
On the issue of the border and elligal migration why his LF more quiet than a church mouse. Does anybody here care to explain? MSjersey,Pepe32,how about you Vacanos, Atabey any theses from class you will like to post on this question today young lad.
pat-vidrio
why don't you take a brake and tend to your wall street dealings or take your infinity for a spin
instead of trying to brake gouletcolonial record for most BS posted on this website.
clinker
don't forget we also specialize in producing big mandingo men, which is the reason why you can't get your culo out of the island.
you are a wiseman, Its fair to assume you understand chess.
Thank you for your words. I do play chess when ever possible and the political game is kind of like a chess game. The first i said to my self when i saw this news was Why is LF telling us this? to me there are 2 intentions to this either we going to get a bad loan for the Metro or he is feeling the pressure that is building up from the illegal immigration because one of DR most prestigious News Paper Listin Diario is no longer afraid to post news about the big problem the illegal immigration is causing to the country. I was surprise to see Listin Diario talking about illegal immigration but then found out Mr Castillo has been putting pressure on them. which is good because now other smaller news paper are following the lead of Listin Diario which has been lead by Dominican Today in the English news sources about DR. Thank you DT.
brother,brother today I come in peace just a neighbor making friendly observation. Beside I seat in front of these monitors all day, you guys on this forrum keeps me entertain. Seriously is it fair to say the statement by the head of LF party a few weeks ago on this subject was only a primer for the masses. Is it fair to expect a solidarity speech from your capital soon, and afterward the Mia cupa about we had no choice were bullied into this.
Is this story going to be like the one where the new hot chica finding her self walking on air acting like a prima Donna because all of a suddent she is wearing Gucci,Prada and being in the limelight.AWns up finding her self dumb founded when her sponsor let her know there is a matter of a few tricks she will have to perform with certain gentleman In order to keep partying like this.
PS. It's ok not to like everything you see when you look into that mirror man, we all have flaws. We are all third world bananas man.
The reason why Leonel word don't mean much locally is because people are starting to figure him out as just a talker not a doer or all smoke no fire i should say. Leonel has cornered him self and is trying to please everybody and the recession that's going on is making it worse for him to justify to the Dominican public how the immigration problem has gotten to this point. But this is good because last time he felt the heat with the electrical problem he actually made a good choice and hope he makes some changes at CESFRONT because General Gil has proven to be a failure there and is not protecting the border at all. Both you and I have the same intentions which is to end illegal immigration now we just have to focus on the cause and the cure for long term.
LF is playing politician with his counterpar frenchfries.
As bad as Trujillo was, and judging by what this politicos now a day do; the guy loved his country.
And yes no doubt, Trujillo was a nacionalist, his approach was wrong though, but he did love his country, I am sure, maybe even a little too much for his own good.
Why must we always go to outside sources for aid resolving internal conflicts?
I mean even with the medical salaries fiasco they had to hire outside consultants?
How the hell would they know the standard of living in DR if they only vacation there?
We need to try our own problems and create contingency planning and processes not just copy everyone else...
Any good that the Haitian’s do for DR is far out weighted by the enormous amount of bad. The fact that this is even being said is an indication how weak DR is. DR is weak because its president is looking for money from other countries so it is forced to listen and do what it is told in order to get those funds.
Which gets at my original premise if DR needs loans from other countries now, imagine what it will need if DR is united to the poorest country in North America.
Glad to see you have been taking my advice. Once you keep taking your meds,you will be fine glad to see the turret is abatting , your thoughts are getting more coherent.
PS. Frenchy is one of the more powerful members of the EU. It is fair to assume his views are also the view of the rest of the gang. Give me your thoughts on this can you go a little deeper than one paragraph on this one?
Thanks for kind comments.
Believe me, as poor as Haiti is, this idea of making the whole island a fusion of one state does not resonate with the majority of Haitians either.
I have asked around, as well as there are several census surveys have been conducted both in Haiti and in Haitian communities abroad whom feel that this would never, ever be not only a possibility, but also not feasibly a wise idea. So there, the pre-conceive notions that most of us Dominicans have about assuming that Haiti would welcome such idea with open arms is absurd. When Haiti the talks for bilateralism, joint efforts, and greater relations are mentioned this doe not mean that both nations are trying to "UNIFIED" both sovereignties together as a one fused state.
No, it means rather that both governments must be engaged in great diplomacy that could be on all fronts and dynamics to see possible way to solve the ills that perhaps both of them face (and believe it or not) socially, economically and even politically.
What most of us Dominicans often try to ignore and at times even deny is that, Haiti's social ills and lack of economy or even its political unrest or instabilities are not good things for DR.
Those plaguing aspects of Haiti are also contagious impediments which might be dragging on DR's prosperity as well in a sense thus namely the influx of Haitian migrants flocking into DR. What we must be aware of as facts is that the complexity of the conditions of next door neighbor Haiti cannot be a situation we Dominicans can just wish away by erecting a wall at the border.
Such idea, regardless of us DR being indeed a sovereign independent nation, will further alienate us as it will also further reaffirm the negative views already existed about DR being prejudicially discriminative toward Haiti.
Atabey,
Honestly I did not see it. Where have you sent it in my inbox, in here or in a posted thread in the forum?
What I do know is that a "wall" will in the end become a justified claim and means to be used against us regardless of what little social assistance we offer Haitians in DR that they are not receiving in Haiti. This "wall" will overshadow all previous diplomatic efforts between the two nations, as any further Human Right violations that occur will be worse continued to be seeing on perspectives that will always and forever be assumed by amnesty groups and international bodies as acts base on racial or old held resentments premises which many are portraying or have accused DR of already.
Leonel Fernandez, although some Dominicans may not agree with his approaches, understands that and whether he means it or not - his constant advocacy in asking for assistant for Haiti is something that is also in DR's best interests as well in so many ways.
Arebey, I have just read the article and listened to the audio which is almost the very same thing said in the article except with the addition extended coverage interview of the guest. So indeed, you can see what I have been saying that most majority world politicians as well as can logically understand by most of us on here that cohesion and corporation between the two nations are in fact needed.
A devastatingly poor Haiti can never mean good news for DR regardless of what radical extreme conservative views most Dominicans might have toward Haiti, the situation or the condition or far whatever reasons might be presumed prejudices or not. Haiti's plaguing ills cannot be wished away by us Dominicans and because they are in a deep hole and so much incapacitated right now id more of a reason why they need our best attention and participation so that it does not spread badly on our side. Know that, an unstable Haiti will always be bad new for DR because of our close proximity.
Tanbellamami
Are you trying to label "Most Dominicans as radical extreme conservative having prejudice towards Haiti". I'm just asking before i respond to you.
Exactly, I have said that. However, the expense for it is not what I question so much; but it is the known fact that there is not a strong consensus that will be accepted fro that both in DR or internationally. Due to the fact that most in DR knows that ecologically and commercially both nations are interdependently interconnected. Many may seem reluctant to see what he is doing, but in the end, his approach right now is the best one to possibly solve most of DR's Haitian migration issues which may worsen if there is no stable Haiti.
Second, if he goes to ask for money to the frenchs, they says him ,ok wipe out the guards from the border for my chimps go in DR easy, only to an irresponsible president can be done such proposal i dont imagine any body telling that to Balaguer or to Antonio Guzman
It is not to say that Haiti's ills are DR's problems or that it means DR should be the one dealing with them, no. This is the most absurd, arrogant and presumptuous way to look at it which is wrong.
All this means is that DR is beginning to see this as a DR's potential threat that a Haiti the way Haiti is right now or worser has and will most definitely become a DR's problem simply because an ill stable Haiti would only means more influx into DR which we cannot bear... So, Haiti and DR need to be more engaged in more solidarity projects as it should be pressed and pressured on the Haitian government to become more visually and directly pro-active in this.
Believe me, I am hoping that in 10 to 20 years top if all bilateralism and joint efforts are taken accordingly that the whole island will be the envy of the Caribbean indeed... already it is the most visited and focused-on island in the whole world with the richest history.
I am one person who is most invested in reading news concerning the matters of the whole island. I know, read and observe the conditions of Haiti as I do that of DR.
I am well aware that indeed DR has a handful already, but it will get a lot fuller if Haiti's situational condition is not alleviated somehow and I agree, those mentioned countries should help, but I am challenging Haitians to help their own country by getting more involved and partake in the endeavors of their country. DR and/or the World International bodies can only do so much to help change the ill dynamics of Haiti toward change...
Nonetheless, the foremost initiative has to come from the Haitians wanting and desiring it more to achieve it and getting themselves from this abyss indeed.
If any of you understand French or Creole, this here http://www.metropolehaiti.com is a great site for news from Haiti. I believe Haitians are aware of the things they must and should do to change Haiti, but financially of course they are strapped.
However and insensitively enough, many of us Dominicans act like we are on a separate island from Haiti or that we are invincible to or shielded from possibly what is happening in Haiti right now if we do not maintain the politics of DR well enough. As I recall, we were once almost just as unstable as Haiti is today politically.
We try to put all the prospects for DR's ills on this migration issue (which I am not saying is not a burden indeed), but if we do not go about business right and holding our leaders to higher standards, we might end up in the condition or the situation Haiti is in today with the differences that we may or will be a poor nation, wow, with a metro and many sky scrappers...?
That s what we are counting on as what makes us better than our neighbor? News flash, those are all mostly foreign investments properties whom have invested billions which in turn those foreigners can deem as interests they will try to protect at all times, in other words their deep investments can be influential that will almost reserve them "say sos" in our nation's politics indirectly.
Let us not be naive to that, most of our citizens are being made strangers on their own land which is being occupied by foreign invested developers and tourists. When will we address those as valid issues, huh?
As much as we believe that Haiti should resolve its own problems as we do ours, but without greater collaborations of both nations diplomatically, we will always face the possibility of being dragged down indeed by our neighbor ills which we hold so much resentments toward or perhaps we are being too arrogant, stubborn and naive to see and realize that their impending ills could affect us just as much as it already they are...
Haiti does not qualify anymore than the US,Jamaica,Guyana or Belize...
Leonel ha perdido el norte ,lo demostró con lo de Honduras y su inacción ante la bomba de tiempo en la frontera y dentro de la nación ,si bien vale abogar por Haití ya que nos conviene que salgan del atolladero no tiene sentido alguno reunirlos en un grupo donde no tienen cabida.
Haití para los Haitianos y soluciones dentro de Haití pero tampoco tenemos que entrar a el atolladero sino hacer lo que convenga a la RD y basta.
No se puede estar con Dios y con el diablo...
The loan deal is not sealed yet?, and France already started imposing on us? French president and his bait money can go to HELL.
If Lionel makes this pact he will be known as Faustus Fernandus!
Now if they really want to help they should take a million or so ,the same applies to Canada and "brother" Obama.
We are sitting on a volcano which has been rumbling for many years and it can erupt at any time.
I understand Leonel's economic views and his forward thinking (much more Balaguer than Bosch) but in the matter of immigration I don't completely trust his instincts or his leanings especially when he had (or has) an ambassador in Haiti that supports unification with Haiti.
None of what Leonel is doing (positive) will mean anything if he does not take serious (legal and humanitarian )actions to resolve this issue because while we speak the numbers on the ground will overwhelm us eventually.
Also (My opinion) with massive European ,American and other investments I don't think they would want to risk their interests (billions of dollars and Euros) to punish DR for Haiti's sake .They might make the public condemnation (bla bla bla) but wink their understanding.
Owing money or having investments in small amounts is weakness but when the numbers are large the investors in the developed world will also pressure to protect their interests.So Leonel has to ask for help for Haiti with one hand while he uses his other hand to start cleaning house.
what is the origin of Jean H Charles
very good treads between you and Tan, serious dicussion about serious matter.
Few things that I need to bring to your attention. Contrary to what most on DT believe Haiti is not on the verge of Imploding. At the Moment Haiti have a second chance to move foward,the first was when Aristide return,but he was an imbecile who betrayed everything he everstood for. At the moment as stated by LF in France Haiti is experiencing a period of political stability under the Preval leadership. The good thing about his administration is the fact now the international community feels they have a realible partner on the ground which is one of the reason you see Bill Clinton is putting his reputation on the line.
At the moment Haiti is enjoying it's biggest injection of foreign investments. Digicel the Irish cell phone provider just made the biggest investment by one single company ever $200mil USD, Royal caribean just open their new pier at Labadie in the north $50mil usd on that project. Dec 3 their ship the biggest cruise ship in the world Oasis of the sea made her maiden voyage to labadie. The national phone company is in the process of being privatized, one of DR largest road construction company is building our roads. Currently there is a south Korean company who just team up with some local investors to build a power plant in cite soleil, they have broke ground already. Finally last month according to the world bank Haiti and Giyanna are the only two countries in the region whose GDP have increased during this world economic crisis I was suprised by that. In the report this is acredited to their economic leadership.
Contrary to most here Haitian are dead against the idea of being one with DR. After all we are the Africans who rather be free in our graves than live as slaves, dirt poor or not that who we are.
One thing I respect with LF is his observation of Haiti ( the election cicle issue and the need for the UN to stay for certain lenght of time and so on) . The period of coup etat in Haiti is over. What is needed is political maturity in the legislative body. Another 5 years of political stability we will
be on our way.
FYI Haiti's economy begain to deteriorate until around 83, we did not take heed to the world bank
studies early on which felt that everybody in the region needed to focus in tourism unstead of their traditional exports. Haiti's golden age was the 50's under Paul Maglore, that chap made the cover of Time magazin as man of the year. Under the Duvalier are dark
days began. There are some great footage of what Haiti was like during that time on YouTube.
unsteable no matter what is promise to them. Just like the 600 int'l investors who
flew in for the investor conference at the Caribe hotel in petionville where schock
that they PDA's work fine like they do back home when they step off the plane in P-au-P.
I believe must here will be suprised to know yes these are the actual facts on the ground next door.