This is a great idea, this will greate job for skill labor and a possible industry that can produce capital outside the tourism industry,,we need to diversefied the porfolio,,too many egg in one basket is a formula for disaster,,,KUDOS to the Chief

Why not cars and electronics instead of weapons? Japan didn't become an economic superpower making weapons!

Ed,

true that!

F... That.

So they can protect their drug shipments......

There is a black market for military hardware. The lax laws, poor enforcement of existing laws, and corruption evident in the Dominican culture creates a welcoming climate for those unscrupulous entrepreneurs and their legions having interests to fill the voids in the weapons market. Could it be the false agenda is to manufacture weapons locally to control drug trafficking, illegal immigration, and the real agenda is to create a depot for black market arms sales? Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Miami/Santiago
This is an absolutely absurd proposition -- as if we were a nation that needed or even warranted having a military industrial complex -- que maidito loco. Given that the Dominican military needs nothing more than small arms to carry out their mission -- one they don't carry out very well, I may add -- a better idea is to purchase weapons readily available from the robust "tigere/delinquent" market that already exists in country. Que usen el mismo concepto del senor ese Dominicano en Nueva York -- his name escapes me -- que le alludo a la policia de NY cambiarle armas por juguetes a los delinquentes en las calles de la ciudad.

"Written by: Edward, 4 Dec 2009 8:51 AM
Why not cars and electronics instead of weapons? Japan didn't become an economic superpower making weapons!"

Tell that to Mitsubishi.

The DR used to make firearms back in the day. They built the M1 Carbine and later the San Cristobal sub-machine gun. The San Cristobal was a poor design and suffered from quality control issues(What a surprise huh?)
The San Cristobal Armory was set up and it's workers were trained by the US and was state of the art at first.
They tried to export the San Cristobal but nobody wanted it. Over time lack of maintenance and interest caused the armory to fall into disrepair and it was late closed down.

In order to make ordinance....one must understand math, physics, technology and science.......done. There's not enough intelligence on the island for that.

Shoeshining, moto-concho are the two top professions desired by most Dominican kids...until they get a taste of MTV.....then they aspire to be rappers and gangstas....

Imagine the theft of bombs with the level of corruption in the DR should they begin to manufacture explosives....but then of course, by creating this "new market", LIE-onel could get another IMF loan or two.....

Why don't they just focus on education and developing a real labor force, who get's paid a real LIVING WAGE? Oh, that means los monos would have to wake up on time and be dressed appropriately for a real job....no jeans and CHINESE-made factory 2nd POLOS...no beers at noon and working until 5p and maybe weekends...never mind...instead let's start out by picking up the garbage in the streets!

Cars need oil... We don't have oil.... It's quite simple really

Lets make weapons and sell themt too!

DoggPound for President!!!

You have hit the nail right on the head.

This sounds like some military officers dreaming of a way to get rich after their careears end. The world is awash in ammunition an small arms. Besides the usual suspects, arms are made by Chile, Brazil, Argentina, South Korea, South Africa, Taiwan, Egypt, and Iran just to name a few. These countries have been in the arms game for over 50 years. It woud be a huge mistake to even consider weapons/ ammunition production.

technology levels dictate that the DR should start with Pungi Sticks and work up

I can't believe the negativity, cynic and sarcastic remarks about the capacity of DOMINI-CANS in general. I happen to believe that Dominicans are very smart and entrepreneurial. In my own family we have nuclear physicists, and other world class professionals, All these derisive and negative commentaries, are from jerks with nothing to do but bitch all day long, maybe they think is funny, but it is not.
FYI for you ignoramus, the Servicios Tecnologicos de las Fuerzas Armadas, or armeria San cristobal was a turn key arms factory designed to make all kinds of small weapons and ammunition, that was bought by dictator Rafael Trujillo in the 1950's and imported lock, stock and barrel to DR with many of the European technicians that worked at the plant in Hungary.
They built Mauser rifles, Beretta 38/44 Italians design sub-machineguns, that were converted to fire the 30 MI carbine cartridge (many were sold to Batista before Castro), and Smith and Wesson type .38 special revolvers.

this is great hope it happens

The Italian machine pistol which was modified in DR was only designed to fire the famous 9mm Luger cartridge, and in DR also modified to fire the 30 M1 cartridge, which was an innovation and not a good idea, in hard battle use because the weapon had a tendency to overheat. It's open bolt design was inadequate for that particular length of cartridge and prone to jamming. Also the cyclic rate was way too fast, but this could be easily reduced by shortening the bolt recoil spring.
The quality and powder charge of the ammunition was way too hot and more research and development was needed, still thousands were manufactured, some of them are still in use.
They also made .50 caliber ammunition, and other weaponry for the Dominican army.
This was over 50 years ago, and the idea to produce weapon parts, and ammunition again in the DR for internal consumption and maybe export is another possibility for our country to expand our horizons and become a world class player someday.

start with Pungi sticks because everybody does it better and if the Brazilians want to finance an arms project let them pay for it ;;;;;;there is such an excess of small arms floating around that only a dumb@ss would open a new factory to make them .....Please genoroso at which nuclear facility in the DR does your kin work at.....they have difficulty being competitive with anything in the free zone .....This is the Betamax of ideas unless you are a gun nut .....and Anthony is a gun nut and he thinks itis a dumb idea

Blutarsky
He worked now retired, as a team leader at the US NRC (nuclear regulatory commission) based in Texas, before that as a health physicist at the Maryland based Polaris nuclear submarine base.
Want me to send you his resume?
He proposed for the DR to buy a nuclear plant that Puerto Rico was selling back in the middle 70's, under very soft terms, and the DR government and all the know it all critics thought it was preposterous and stupid idea, just like most of the commentaries in this thread.

Miami/Santiago

Generoso --

I'd certainly never speak against the share ingenuity and intelligence of our people -- hell, if it weren't for our brilliance how could we navigate through the muddiness of the corrupt system that our politicians have created for us. It is true that Dominicans, on a daily basis, "asen de tripas corazones." What I will tell you, however, is that we have no business putting into motion this ridiculous idea of creating an arms building capability in country -- smart or not -- that's an absurd proposition. Why don't we take a stab at something simple -- like fixing our energy problems, for instance?

Generoso

All these derisive and negative commentaries, are from jerks with nothing to do but bitch all day long,

Great line there and great post once again. People whining here always blame the gov. for their own personal problem and the million dollar question.

Have you as a Dominican Done everything that is possible for you to be educated?

By that i mean did you stop your whining,drinking habits and worked the extra hours to have a education in DR. I know many in DR who have done it and are now professionals including my self(USA) but not everybody in DR is up for the challenge of leaving the Presidente habits that winners here carry around. Because they have a easy way out which is to blame the gov. for ALL their problem. Ya nada mas falta que le hechen culpa por la resaca tambien!!

Little history here:
http://www.sunblest.net/gun/Cristo.htm

this is a dumb idea no matter how you slice it .....from every direction .....and anyone with a thimble full of sense will tell you that ....if this was feasible it was 75 years ago

I would love to be a trilioneare:
and be in the position of power to do some goods, but since i am dominican i would do a social expirement: i will propose building a rocket to put a dominican man on the moon and explore the solar system,,,,just to find out how many negative comment will come out of people mouth, i will them proceed to send them a check and bride for silence, to see if they are really concent for the country of they pocket...
My predicitiong is,,,90% will keep they must shut, provide they have a check to buy frias, pay the hookers, and by the time is over,,,,i will more likely have parede to see the rocket lift up.

Having a weapong factory to provide ammunition, rocket, avionics will train many people in advance field, that will eventually move to other techologist

Miami/Santiago

Will stick to my ol mantra of never arguing with a fool because the person walking by does not know which of the two is the fool.

So what kind of Military products should the D.R. make?

Ammo? Despite what that twit says in the article the world market is pretty much covered. Any ammo produced would be for local consumption....Not enough for profitability.

Firearms? Ak's are going for $45 wholesale new, $30 used. M-4's? LOL

"Semi"-armored Vehicles? After you build a dozen for the D.R. military you would be better served using the welding equipment to make wrought iron fences.

Anything High-tech would just be an assembly plant in a free-zone.

Diversify the market away from tourism is a great idea, but building weapons is not. Everybody wants the fast and easy money. Did you ever think of what tourist would think about your country if it developed weapons? Look what's happening. Drugs, prostitution, gangs, weapons, slavery, people trafficking, corrupt government etc. Do you see a pattern and the direction the country could go?

John Lennon and Nutopia still lives on.... Imagine....

Dominican is at a pivotal point that will determine the fate forever. I believe there is hope for a bright future, but it's a lot of hard work and social change...

DOGGPOUND IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK WITH THIS STATEMENT

are the two top professions desired by most Dominican kids, OK!GANGSTERS

the young girls cant wait to be "LADIES OF THE NIGHT".
now for the young boys....."GET ONE VISA, GO TO NEW YORK AND SELL DRUGS"...end of story..... WELL at least the end of the STORY 4 THE KIDS THAT FELLOW THIS PATH TO FAME AND WEALTH. {IT DOES NOT WORK IN THE LONG TEARM}...
hey! they believe that in new york they can pay off DEA, AND DRUG AGENTS WITH SOME PESOS.... that does not fly in the states.... then they are looking at mucho years in one CAGE

hey! i will propose building a rocket to put a dominican man on the moon and explore the solar system,, but i like this idea...
BUT 1ST lets teach the stupid ones how to use their debit cards at the cash machines....ok!..
before we put one on the moon....

The point about getting more education math and science is valid and i support it, but imagine,,,you educate million of people to be nuclear scientific or petro quemical engineer,,etc etc,,,,where are the nuclear plants, where are the technology jobs in DR,,,there is no infrastruture for it. and education is like fixing world hunger. it never end. this argument is like telling culumbus to educate Spain before shipping west..he will more likely be still be in port.
my undestanding all weapon manufacturing in DR is for the military and local carribean market,,this is going to be Brasilian technology manufacturer here..and here is another contra-argument,,,who remenber 1821,,we got cautch we our pants down we Dominican have the bad habit of locking the gates after the robberies,,,,this type of field in weapon tech will open jobs for those who go to school and become an engineer and will have a job after graduating

@DogPound

Around 02 I was on a flight to Haiti from NYC , I had an older Jewish man seating next to me. We begain to talked, he explained to me he is in the garment business and been coming to Haiti for over 30years for business. This chap went on to tell me about his assembly plant he had in Haiti but had to moved to DR after the fall of baby Doc. Everything in your tread is exactly what he explained to me about his experiences in DR. Now what I thought was a bit offensive is when he stated his Dominican workers habits of starting drinking by noon on Friday and too drunk to come to work on Monday regardless of deadline to meet. Seeing the look in my face this chap told me it's true and this is affecting his bottom line
line because his quality control went down to shit since he moved his operation next.

PatD - Those are the social habits and others that need to be changed before it's too late.
TeleMeco - Watch this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpEnFwiqdx8

Let's not be stuck in the dark ages forever...

PatDiamond

That's a very touching story why didn't you ask him why he doesn't just move it back into Haiti. I mean his quality control went down the drain for the last 22 years yet he has been able to support it and keep it alive.

Maybe Dreadlock can do the numbers on this one since he is the numbers man here and help me figure how do you keep a business alive for 22 years if you labor force and quality of products went down the drain 22 years in a row.

Or maybe you are just making this up which is the third option.

@Belly

I have no reason to make this up, Baby Doc Fell in 86, it was in the later years during the embargo period lot of these guys had to moved their operation over to your side. This was 02 I ran into this guy he had countracts with the Kmarts,JC Penny and so on. We did not get that deep because I was a bit appaulled about his remarks, but the last part of the conversation, he told me,yes the workers in DR are bit more savy tn their Haitian counterpart,but he missed their work ethics.

What an interesting thread. First I would like to say that Dominicans are not being screwed by the Polititians. You all vote for them and they buy your votes with a freakin case of beer or a bottle of cheap rum but you blame it on the "Odderguy" all the time. You take no credit for electing these buffoons of course.

Education, 24 hour power and potable water should be the first things on the agenda BUT all the bright STARS here on this message board want Arms Factories first which boggles my mind what what the heck, carry on with your nonsense, hopes and prayers but if you put all of them on one side of the scale and the dump I took this morning on the other you will again be out weighed along with being outsmarted because you don't have a chance at EDUCATION.

Cont
One of the reason this encounter always stuck in my mind is because 3years later during the uprising against Aristide. I was watching NightLine the guess that evening was a Republican Senator. He made a statement which Blowed me away " if Haiti will get it's act together it can become the Hong Kong of the caribean". You and I both know before the mainland China craze everything was made in
Hong Kong (cheap factory goods). A great part of what I do is decifering economic data monthly US non farm payroll, those pesky fed minutes meeting after interest rates announcements and so on,that's the edge. I always connected the correlation between the two events simply by the ethics of the haitian worker to the bigger US interest in Haiti(potential cheap reliable labor source at close proximity)
a

Escott

You all vote for them and they buy your votes with a freakin case of beer or a bottle of cheap rum but you blame it on the "Odderguy" all the time. You take no credit for electing these buffoons of course.


You have US$886 billion reasons not to repeat that statement. and another US$776 billion more going thru
congress as we speak. plus if you want to talk about education than we should start by saying you are the riches country on the planet opps no i take that back China is and about the education issue you are in no position to point fingers since you are in the last place of all first world countries.47th place to be more accurate so think again before point fingers but hey at least you get an extra $25 dollar a week in your unemployment check even your grand grand grand grand kids will be paying for it until they are 65.

PattDiamond

The conditions on the ground at both countries tell a different story about work ethics. You see Japanese and Singapore is what i would call of people having work ethics. little fact about DR #2 MLB player producer in the world #1 in quality of player, #1 producer of organic chocolate in the world, In the western hemisphere #4 fastest growing economy. numbers tell a different story about work ethics don't it. BTW what you call a "Bit more savy" doesn't get you to grow 7 times the sizes economy of your neightboor it take a lot more than just a "bit" my friend.
Do you remember this quote by a very famous Haitian

"Give Haitian rum and they'll be happy"

Did some of you read the article at all? I guess some of you just read the comments. Again the article states, and I quote "installation of factories for ammunitions, aeronautical products, and semi-armored vehicles to patrol the border with Haiti". Hello? Knock, knock, anybody home?
The DR police and armed forces DESPERATELY need a cheap source and regular supply of ammunition of all kinds, including shotgun shells for civilian sports and defensive use. They import all of it at present with many restrictions. This scarcity and high prices causes a box of regular handgun ammo to be sold at an average retail of about US$40 for 50 rounds, which is prohibitive for most. The police and the army do not get regular target training, and very little initial training due to this factor. Same for aircraft ammo and parts that could be made in the DR.
We have a design by a retired Dominican general (Ramiro Matos) who fought real tank battles and lost an eye for a semi armored vehicle that...cont

Part 2
could also be produced (without weapons) for export to other countries and would be an income producing export item, same as Brasil is doing at present, selling their semi armored vehicles as far as Iraq and Afghanistan. And Brasil, Argentina, Mexico and other weapons producing Latin American countries are certainly not war mongers either.
So for you guys that read "weapons of all kinds" sorry.....please read the whole article and take a course in reading comprehension before you put your foot so far down your mouth that it comes out the other end.
BTW To Mr Smartass (you know who you are) What happened to our most profitable line at the armeria San Cristobal, to produce .50 caliber machine gun shells ? after it was sold at bargain basement prices?
A: To a Korean ammo producing company called PMC (Patton and Morgan) who bought it for pennies on the dollar, and now they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Zooma makes a great point... Fix the the Goverment and the Organized Crime influence, be a respected country to the world market and manufacture what ever you want...remember alot of realy shitty products come from china.. ( electronic knock offs).. pick a couple of key items and make them the best... the world market will respond just look at Switzerland not much bigger then the DR... who ever thought watches would be in such high demand..

anthonyC:
Get your story straight and don't bring the GRINGOS into the picture. Trujillo was forced to buy a
weapon factory from Zchecosloavakia in the 40's since no one would sell DR weapons due to the regime and the astrosity he had commited with our neighbors the Haitians in the 30's.League of nations had imposed taugher sanctions than US has on Cuba because of his brutality.Thefactory was brought over with 500 technicians and the designer of the CRISTOBAL was a HUNGARIAN egnineer who lastly was working for the Gringos. He expanded the industry by puchasing Italian steel furnace to make machine guns which he did.All this was before the M15, and M16 was even thought of. The American Carabine has a limited range as opposed to the CRISTOBAL which has higher muzzle velocity but the flaw was not in the design but the poor quality of steel for the repercution pin. A rifle that fires 800 rounds /minutes needed a much better pin so as not to melt along with the rifling. Scraped in 1957.

No way in H_ll! If you were a soldier in the army of the DR would you feel comfortable going into battle with a rifle made in the DR? First and foremost where are they planning to get the skilled people necessary to make weapons? Second who are they going to sell the weapons they make?
It would make more sense to become a joint venture partner with a small arms manufacturer. But then there would be no “commissions

Gringos.. It seems like most of the comments come from those living in Gringo land NJ. Can the DR and its people produce superior products that the world wants OH ya..Training ,education skills for sure..But if the Countryy has an infulstructure that is in question from top to bottom by leading countries....it will never be recognised even if it has a medical break through. Which is sad... Did you know the DR is recognised as having some of the best heart and neurologists in the globe! How could the DR then be recognised as a Leading Arms manufacture the produces weaponary for world peace.

@Belly

I understand the superiority Complex thing, and you may feel you have to injected it In everything. No one who ever been to both countries can ever deny you what is due to you. Endeed it's your time to shine, but like pheonix we will rise from our ashes too. I believe I was talking about someone who owned essentialy a sweatshop who have operated in both countries. I do believe he was simply talking about observations on his factory floor and back office. I don't think that work force is the brain capital behind your economic development? I might be wrong ?

Miami/Santiago

To all you fine folks with PHDs in Trujillismo and DR's past domination of the arms manufacturing industry -- you've earned your props and are now annointed brilliant Dominicans. As for this poor Cibaeno, all I want is a little bit of electricity from time to time.

@PatDiamond

Out of many here I would be one of the least to suffer from the so call superiority complex that you are mentioning that's why as a example of work ethics i used 2 countries that have a proven track record of work ethics like Japan and Singapore so the superiority complex doesn't apply to me by any means. I was just simply pointing out that the story that you first told us was either not true or not the full story which at the end you came clear and finished the story by saying what has been evident by the growth. So world class work ethics is not something that exist in the island but if you want to compare both countries in the island then the numbers of growth will tell you the story. I have never said that Haiti is never getting out of the hole but is that some folks here like to talk as if DR is not capable of moving forward and as if Haiti has been the #1 producer of Nasa scientist which we all know is not happening. I wish Haiti nothing but the best

PatDiamond

Nothing against you but next time if you are going to use a story like that make sure to include the full story not what makes you feel better.

Professor,

"He proposed for the DR to buy a nuclear plant that Puerto Rico was selling back in the middle 70's"


Where in Puerto Rico was that nuclear power plant located that your relative was suggesting the Dominican government buy?

"anthonyC:
Get your story straight and don't bring the GRINGOS into the picture.'

RANCIER,

Glad to here from you old friend; especially while spanking the local Yankee Doodle Dandy on DT.

Rancier and Josie.

You make a cute couple. In your case apparently ignorance combined with pretentiousness is an aphrodisiac.

Just because you guys can use google doesn't mean you are instant experts.

aC Drones and unmanned fighting aircraft. These are just like large toy planes - not very high tech. - also unmanned suspended vehicles that can travel along wire ropes suspended in the air. from hill top to hill top. They can drop flares, launch rocket net people traps etc.
S.

Cubanito,

Google is better than FIX News and may I add, much more profitable, something that as
"Free” marketer you should be ecstatic about.

Anthonyc,

You should learn to accept when you are caught with your pants down! It happens to the best repubicanitos:

1. Rush “OxyContin” Limbaugh
2. Mark “I will do my own crying Argentina” Sanford
3. John “Daddy and Mommy please pay the hush money” Ensign
4. Larry “ Why don’t the make these dam bathroom stalls wider” Craig

Just to name a few!

At least they didn't wrongfully accuse anybody of committing atrocities...John Murtha.

Or lie about Killing people...John Kerry

Or Actually kill somebody.....Ted Kennedy!

Keep in mind Ted Kennedy was an excellent swimmer

[edit] sorry, double post..

We should aspire to become self-sufficient in as many fields as possible, and thus depend less on imports and external factors or impositions. We used to make weapons in the DR, but with the creation of a new constitution after Trujillo's murder, the country was prohited from manufacturing it's own weapons, BUT we could still import them and sell them to our civilians (sigh). This move is a great idea in the right direction.

Trujillo:
I could not agree with you more .Had we kept the armament milling machines it would had been the first step to DR industrial revolution . Now it is too late to even think about it with the Generals
dismanteling the weopn factory and selling it for their own profit. Sounds contradictory that they want to built something that they themselves destroyed. They had the skill techs, imported from Europe since they had no Technical schools then or now to aproach this task. This is only a dream of a military historian.By now,like VOLSWAGON after WW2 started building bikes,motor cycle and cars (look at them now). DR was building refrigerators ,AC small apliances with imported motors which was essencial for the product but not cost efficient.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS TECHNICAL SCHOOLS A PRIORITY NATION WIDE EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO IMPORT THE TEACHERS AND THE EQUIPMENTS, PROVIDING DR POPULATION DON'T STEAL THEM. THEN WE COULD BE SELF SUFFICIENT LIKE ANY SMALL EUROPEAN COUNTRY SUCH AS BELGIUM.

funny this topic came up as I am taking training for a basic pistol course, I think is a good idea to create a weapons factory, the dominican republic cannot just depend on tourism to bring in the money , that just makes you a one trick . has generoso says there was a time when the dominican republic was making top of the line weapons in world war 2. Why not cars and electronics instead of weapons? Japan didn't become an economic superpower making weapons says edward? tell me what japan the united states and koreanallhave in common they all have the nuclear bombs so dont act like having weapons is not of importance in this day in age .

funny this topic came up as I am taking training for a basic pistol course, I think is a good idea to create a weapons factory, the dominican republic cannot just depend on tourism to bring in the money , that just makes you a one trick . has generoso says there was a time when the dominican republic was making top of the line weapons in world war 2. Why not cars and electronics instead of weapons? Japan didn't become an economic superpower making weapons says edward? tell me what japan the united states and korea all have in common they all have the nuclear bombs so dont act like having weapons is not of importance in this day in age.

hellborn25:
Am afraid i don't agree with your statement when reference is made to adquisitiopn of atomic bombs. Japan for sure don't make atomic bombs althought they have the knowledge to it.
Japan is known for its economic world power who does not have to borrow money from any one,
on the cotrary they are lenders like China is. You also have to remember that Japan under the
desarmament act after the "uncoditional surrender" WW2,signed by the EMPEROR and Mcarthur
these were one of their conditions (never to create an army,.air force ,navy) .These helped Japan towards their recovery by eliminating such expense.
As to DR i don't think it is a productive business the manufactoring of weapons since technical
knowledge is non existing as well as the row material for it. I would say otherwise if the machines
of 1940 were in place as well as the zcheck or other industrial nation provided the millers(torneros) Lastly ,who would buy such weapons when the US as well as Russia markets