Written by: Gizmo 
, 13 Feb 2009 9:41 AM
From: United States
why?
From: United States
why not, Gizmo? would you have had the same response if there was a caucasian history month exposition? to some it might not be readily apparent, but black heritage is part of the Dominican society, and such an event could elevate the consciousness of those who are oblivious of this. no knowledge is wasted.
Written by: corky01, 13 Feb 2009 10:06 AM
From: United States
Racial history celebrations reinforce racial divisions not anything else.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 10:06 AM
From: United States
Black American heritage has nothing to do with Dominican society at all martian man. WHO CARES!
Written by: bernies, 13 Feb 2009 10:55 AM
From: United States, key west fl
If any of you have ever been in the district and had taken the Metro green line on the direction to college park meryland, and on that ride had made it a stop at U street Cardose may be you would have a different opinion on the subject. there they have a large wall that is painted with a lot of blacks history. One thing i almost forgot to mention is that while you are there please take the time to go to a place which i don't remember the name now but it is famous for its chilli dogs, that is were Bill Cosby goes to have his when he is in dc so next time you are in WDC please take the time and stop by. it might help you out on this subject.
Written by: oneworld, 13 Feb 2009 10:59 AM
From: United States
Gizmo,
I was trying to educate you about humanity, and try to take your mind out of the gutter. Apparently that is not working. Your mind is a terrible thing that you are wasting… I am not going to further dignify your comments.
From: United States, Reality Check
If I can see my US tax dollars used to fund a Dominican Day parade in the US then equally the can be something on black history.
Yes, it's true that the majority of Dominicans are mixed (not 100% black nor Anglo-saxon). Even in Santiago - my home for years it is clearer to see the genetic influence of the African genes even in the clara chicas. When you see a beautiful chica in the Central Cuidad near the universities in Santiago just look at her "body type and nice round pompi (azz)". Generally, these chicas (I know many) are mostly genetically influenced in their body types by African genes (but which are "mixed" with indigeneous & spanish - skin tone & hair etc). The greatest spanish influence is actually in culture (NOT genetics). I know ladies from Spain but they look nothing like the beautiful chicas in Santiago barrios, just fyi. Same is true for Jennifer Lopez (not surgery).
One of the spillover goals of Christopher Columbus was race mixing (after souls & gold)!
Written by: zak325, 13 Feb 2009 11:31 AM
From: United States
People like Gizmo refuse to admit the the Dominican Republic is part of the African diaspora, and as such share cultural (if not historical) similarities, and this is what this event is, a cultural exchange. Damn ! was that so hard to figure out Gizmo ?, no of course it wasn't but people like you think the ethnic mix of the D.R. is unique of all nations on the planet. Wether you like it or not, Black Dominicans ( I don't mean Hatians) really do exist, I've seen em' there! Get over it.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 11:32 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
For anyone interested on this issue, here's an essay-investigation about the insidious history behind the US definitions of "black", read, the vile and tyrannical "one-drop rule":
http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=15Trust me on this one, this essay is truly an eye-opener.
From: United States
thanks for the article, Mr Lautaro. now, i hope Gizmo can read. if this site is only for Dominicans, why bother with any articles from anywhere else? let us take it a step further; why does the moderator not request proof of citizenship before permitting postings? it is this kind of dismissive foolishness from nitwits like Gizmo which causes people to open their eyes widely. this is education, Gizmo, if you know what that means. an exposition on the history of the Native American would be equally educative. so would the history of Mexican freedom fighters. so, Gizmo, given your apparent dislike for information, why don't you just go back to watching Sesame Street, and leave the thinking to the adults? as to those who pontificate that the DR is only 10% black, what criteria do you use to make such a statement? go read the article Mr Lautaro posted, and stop with the ridiculous remarks.
From: United States
by the way, Vacanos, are you "mixed"? since you are so proud of your "white heritage", why don't you go to some backwater in Mississippi or West Virginia and tell the folks there that you are a "proud white man"? then report the results to the forum, if you escape in one piece!
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 11:53 AM
From: United States
This forum is Dominican Today not Jurrassic Park Today.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 11:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Judging by his posts, one have to wonder if vacanos is really is posting from the US, dread, a place where unless someone looks swedish (and the people have proofs concerning the racial "purity" of your family), people will consider one to be everything else EXCEPT white, no matter how caucassian looking might be the person in question. Heck, not so long ago, even spaniards, portuguese, greeks and italians were considered to be "coloured" by US standards, a gently reminder by the establishment to those mediterranean inmigrants to refrain from trying to mingle with the "pure" population.
Written by: oneworld, 13 Feb 2009 11:56 AM
From: United States
Vacanos,
Nobody is denying you any part of your heritage, although many mixed Dominicans tend to acknowledge and are more proud of their lighter heritage than their black one. I am not stating 2/3 Dominicans are blacks, rather using U.S. standard that would be the case. In fact, President Obama is mixed race, yet in the U.S. he is being called “black”. I did not know Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez were illegal Haitians. This was not an issue of black and white, rather responding to your incognizant comment "Black American heritage has nothing to do with Dominican society at all martian man. WHO CARES! “. You yourself just stated that 10% Dominicans are blacks and 72% are mixed & 18% whites, maybe you should learn more about yourself and your people and the rest of the world that you live in. Insulting other people does not make you better, it diminishes you. My quest to continue to educate you amigo.
Written by: zak325, 13 Feb 2009 12:00 PM
From: United States
Hey Dread, he dosen't have to go down south for a test of racial tolerance, just try buying a house in a white neighborood in Long Island, NY or driving a nice car anywhere. He'll soon realize how popular he is with the local police and unpopular he is with real White people.
From: United States
oneworld, a wonderful post. and, Mr Lautaro, these guys like vacanos are still mired in the trujillo era of racial ideas. i agree that vacanos could not possibly be posting from the USA. if he is, he is completely oblivious to the sociology of the country. then again, vacanos, we are living in a really bothersome epoch, and everybody can use a good laugh sometimes. so, why don't you try this for entertainment. go to Martha's Vineyard and tell the bluebloods there that your name is Vacanos, the proud white man?
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
Black History in the U.S.A. is to be recognized; However, to import that facet of American history is ambivelent, and I truly don't see what the intent of displaying these films (which most in DR have already seen "Color Purple", "Glory"), will they next show "Amistad"?
We have a African-American presence in Samana, who have been in that region for 150 years; We don't need Uncle Sam coming now to try to school us on human relations? Why didn't they do it in 1916, or In 1965? Because of the Jim Crow idiologies that dominated the U.S., then. So, Black History, yes! Many Dominicans are of the African Diaspora, and some with roots in the deep south of the U.S. But, this new-fangled, Obama inspired insights keep to yourselves and your conscienses. Clean up your own histrory before you attempt to import your new philosophies. I remember the Palm Beach (Pambiche) dancing stories.....
Run that game on someone else....Since 1964 it's a new world according to U.S.A.
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 12:07 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: Gizmo, 13 Feb 2009 9:41 AM
From: United States
why
"
why not ? why deny your elusive 10% black the choice of participating, anyone should take part if they so desire, black history is a legacy left for humanities that should be appreciated regardless of color.
I was in college 90% white there was black history month, the UN have even recognized this as such, again Gizmo why not
Idiot like you, make Dominican look like the laughing stock in the world stage
Written by: adaniels , 13 Feb 2009 12:08 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
To you Gizmo I'am a light skin black american,I lived in DR for 3yrs. I met many people like you there and yes you may think you are white there,however when you touch down in Miami or N.Y. the whites here will make you realize that you just became black ,just like the blood flowing in your veins all the way from Africa.
Written by: bernies, 13 Feb 2009 12:10 PM
From: United States, key west fl
hey have you guys heard that boyer went to america back in the 1800s and talked to a lot black african american to come here to this country were they would live free. and guess what happen over three hundred of them came over here .yes that happens and if you don't think it did go to Samana and ask the blacks people at there. so yes black african american history has a lot to do with black dominican history.
Written by: bernies, 13 Feb 2009 12:12 PM
From: United States, key west fl
thank you adaniels. well say.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 12:14 PM
From: United States
Antonioj you're the laughing stock on this forum!
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 12:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I think that the key factor on this issue has been numbers, in the sense that the one drop rule would be created by the northern whites (which were at the time the majority group on the US), and it would be, ironically, maintained and enforced by the african american community itself. Why, some of you would ask? simple, if the US were to apply the relaxed color lines prevalent in Latin America (particularly in heavily mixed countries like Brazil and the DR), the "black" population would be even more of a minority than it is now, because a large part of the african american population are in reality people of biracial extraction, like the current emperor and Halle Berry for example, and their political power would be then reduced to the smallest degree. So that's why you'll find that the biggest opposition to the abolition of that blasted rule will always come from the AA community first and foremost.
Written by: adaniels , 13 Feb 2009 12:16 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
bernies I'am here in VA. Alexandria.Peace.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 12:18 PM
From: United States
Bernies Boyer invited those blacks to change the ethnic composition of the country. It was a period known in Dominican history as "La Haitianizacion del territorio dominicano" again another afro-centrist gets corrected. Translation to english "The Haitianization of the dominican territory." Most of these Black Americans were strategically posted in the Samana bay area, also Puerto Plata where ironically Ulises Hereaux was born, but also parts of Santo Domingo city. Haitians were also spread among those area's. Boyer wanted to secure his dominance on the eastern portion of the island, but his scheme failed miserably..... [Haitian occupation 1822-1844.]
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 12:20 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) In fact, I would say that in Latin America, the one drop rule operates in reverse, that is, one-drop of white (or indian) blood will make you to be everything else except "black". With the added benefit that for this very fact Latin America is more culturally homogeneous than the US, for example, you'll find that every brazilian, no matter their skin tone, dances to samba, eats feijoada, and enjoys the carnival, while on the US you have that "whites" and "blacks" are separated among cultural lines.
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 12:26 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: Gizmo, 13 Feb 2009 12:14 PM
From: United States
Antonioj you're the laughing stock on this forum!
"
You can not stand the true, I am on the rigth side, be proud of all heritages that make up the dominican mozaic and the liberties to celebrate it, be open, reasonable that is what-- will make DR a great country and be reverred in the world stage. Your simple mind is not able to graps such a simple concept, interestingly enough you hail form the US you should know better than being a self hatred person.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Ha ha, the fact that there such negative response to this issue is indicative of the race issues in the DR. Whoever does not recognize that there is extreme racism in the DR are in denial. Just look at our language - Pelo bueno vs. pelo malo; mejorando la raza; and so on. People who deny these racial divisions are those who benefit from the status quo.
Identity is a product of "dialogue" and celebrating black heritage, regardless of where it is found, is a way of promoting positive image for a subaltern group that is constantly faced with media, education, and popular culture that denies or belittles their role in history and society. e.g., Besides the Loto billboards, how many non-whites do you see in advertisement in the DR? Moreover, besides the workers, who many non-whites do you see in Casa de Campo?
Anyhow, celebrating US black history month is as valid in the DR as having most of our main avenues names after foreign (US-mostly) presidents :-)
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Gizmo you have the Afronazis fighting amongst themselves now..... knock it off
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
U.S. embassy Press attaché David Searby said the events will begin with a round table to analyze United States president Barack Obama’s book Dare to Hope, in the UASD’s Pedro Mir Library, where he said there’ll be drawing for 10 copies of the book
He said the opening event is slated for 5 p.m., and the round table will begin at 5:30 p.m.
----------------------------
What I see here is an under-handed manner of fomenting unrest in an already fragile socio-economic, have and have nots, class-racial climate. The situation in DR, in my opinion is a powder keg.
The last thing you need is a "round-table" (masonic-King Arthur-designed) at "La UASD".
Does anyone remember what that place is famous for?
Unrest, riots, protests, which then require police/military intervention.
These Foreign (agents) Black History proponents are really a cunning coniving lot.
Take that to Georgetown University in Chocolate City; or Fordham U, in Goya-landia, and run that scam there! Jesuits!
From: United States
It is a part of us culture and history, so the US embassy of course is interested in this form of cultural exchange. If you don't like it, don't show up.
Let's quit holding our noses in the air about the evil Northerner as though our culture's racism is leaps and bounds above theirs. At the end of the day the US society has produced the most influential leaders of the African Diaspora, and from the US have emerged black cultures that are mimicked the world over from Europe to Asia to Africa itself. For all its ongoing social ills, among industrialized countries the US has surely the most developed legal protections, policy instruments, and non-governmental social institutions to promote the Black community. To my knowledge this is bar none unquestionable. In spite of (because of?) ODR the United States is quite possibly the leading black nation of the world.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
THe DR is a multicultural society. The bad thing is when a single identity is portrayed as the "natural" one. THis hides the inequality that persist in our society and is used to discriminate and persecute against those who don't fit the mold.
Unfortunately, the Ideal identity in the DR is "European." people who fit mold are portrayed as our national leaders and what we should aspire to become. There was an article in the Miami Herald a couple of years ago that claimed that DOminican hair-stylists are the considered the best, b/c they are able to straighten hair better than anywhere else. I don't know if the claim is true or not, but it is indicative of how we idolize the European, and vilify what's not. What do people call musica de Palo? Don't we call that devil music? or santeria music? WHY IS THAT? Isn't palo as legitimate Dominican as Merengue & Bachata? Instead of celebrating Palo, we seek Classical music - which I love, but not at the expense of denying my love for palo.
From: United States
Bizarre racial schemes are all bizarre, whether it is ODR or colorism they are still both bizarre systems of supremacy. Sure the US had Jim Crow but the Spaniards also had their Codigo Negro Carolino.
It is true in DR's history the populace (aka peasantry) managed to generate a culture less tinged by these racial systems than most. But this was not for lack of trying by the European! The relaxed form of colorism is a result of the rural resistance to the control of the metropolis and the freedom enabled by our beautiful, bountiful island. Nonetheless how much different do you really think it was for a 'terceron' in colonial Santo Domingo than in Charleston? Also many will gladly tell you that there are significant 'red lines' in even DR society where this relaxed colorism is suddenly as stringent as ODR.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 12:42 PM
From: United States
This smells foul the Haitian conspiracy is knocking on our doorstep. Sounds like the Black Caucus is attempting to assert itself. They just don't know what their dealing with, poor souls.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 12:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
If our racism is more prevalent than theirs, how come miscegenation is more prevalent here than there, Mannie? On everything that I have read about this cursed ideology, the ODR main aim have been to prevent miscegenation, despite all the claims to the contrary. Even the writer of "Birth of a Nation", D. W. Griffith, acknowledged on his works, "The Leopard Spots" and "The Klansman", that miscegenation (the big bad black man chasing the white woman) is still the first among the fears of the anglos against african people and their descendants. That the ban against interracial marriage would be an institution that they would defend "by fire and sword".
Written by: adaniels , 13 Feb 2009 12:50 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
Anyone that thinks black american hate themselves, is suffering from a very grave misconception. We just say, say it loud we are black and we are proud!
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 12:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
adaniels: "Anyone that thinks black american hate themselves, is suffering from a very grave misconception. We just say, say it loud we are black and we are proud!"
If you're so "proud" and "democratic" then why so many of you frowned when Tiger Woods wanted to acknowledge his multirracial origins instead of just saying "I'm black" or "I'm african-american", looking and accusing him of being a "sellout", "passer" and "racial traitor" among other not-so kind epithets?
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 12:58 PM
From: United States
There is no white month celebration in DR. I just don't get it with these people. The reason we stand today as a nation is a testament of our spanish idea. Dominican came from spanish ancestry not the other way around. If somebody have different fact please come forward. Duarte lo dijo mejor somos diferentes en todos.
From: United States
Gizmo, would it be too much to ask of you if we requested a simple, rational statement? what does Haiti have to do with this? are you implying that the Haitians paid the USA to stage this gambit? is it possible to have a reasoned discussion about racial issues without someone turning it into the obligatory Haiti/Dominican Republic foodfight? does any and every attempt at academic inquiry have to be dragged into the gutter of insults and silly witticisms? try to grow up, please!
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
The line from the movie "The Usual Suspects" pops into my mind: "The greatest thing the devil did, was convince the world he didn't exist." Similarly, Foucault says the most effective mechanisms of power to keep people in check, are those that are most invisible... The Elites in the DR do not want race to become an issue, b/c then people will see the HUGE inequality that exists and may start asking questions about where that inequality started and why has it persisted under all the "freedoms" and "opportunities" which exist in our wonderful society-- not the sarcasm.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Lautero, miscegenation has been a strategy to eliminate "black" influence in not only the DR but Latin American society. If you read Anthony Marx's "Race and the Nation," where he compares the history of race relations and policy in US, South Africa, & Brazil, you will see how the Brazilian experience is comparable (NOT THE SAME) to the DR. In brazil, miscegenation was encouraged among the poor-- and of course, the patron who got some of his non-white servants pregnant :-/
Miscegenation, along with a portrayal of a Single National identity hid the racial divides and inequalities in Brazilian culture. But the truth of the mater is that the elites in BRazil, jus tlike in the DR, are overwhelmingly white. One or two are allowed to get to a position of power, as long as they tow the party line, to show that it is possible, and keep people "hypnotized" w/ the idea that if you follow the rules, work hard, you'll make it...
From: United States
I never said it was more prevalent in DR than US Lautaro, this is your defensiveness around ODR reading that. All I'm opposing is condemning US being on a whole different level of hell. Just as you want respect for DR's different system you yourself should show more respect for the way the story has played out in US, and recognize that it brings it's own set of positives and negatives. Pardon the pun but the picture is not 'black and white' or else as I mentioned how do you explain the more developed structures and protections in US?
Of course DR had more recognized mixing (btw 'miscegenation' is a pejorative, racist word), for both cultural and material reasons. But DR is not the only example of colorism, and it did not play out this way in every colorist regime. I'm all for letting people know they need to consider our specific history and culture when they become too vehement about race in DR, but conversely I also oppose insecure paranoia around black discourse.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 1:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Is not the idea of racial segregation of the US equally (if not more harmful) to the unity of a country, baldoria? For me it is, because it leads more to the development of two nations in paralell even more than the veiled racism of Latin America. If not, look at the nationwide strife that segregation brought to the US for a great part of the XXth century. I would simply hate for those scenes to be reenacted here, among all the other ills that we have to adress. The least that we need right now is for racial finger pointing to appear on the horizon.
From: United States
Baldoria, thanks for bringing some serious firepower to the issue. i always wonder why it is that when i see photographs of all the major players in the DR, such as the heavyweight bank executives and their entourages, they all look the same; light skin, straight hair, noses, etc. you never see anyone who looks like Sammy Sosa..
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 1:06 PM
From: United States
There is no doubt this is all a attempt and the beginning of what is next to come to let all the haitian in the country and unite the island. You will see. what a joke
From: United States
"So maybe we should impose Juan Pablo Duarte's day on the U.S."
Gizmo in NYC you will find a statue of JP Duarte, schools and avenues named after him. The homegrown Americans do not complain we have imposed anything on them, it is simply more cultural exchange.
Written by: talia, 13 Feb 2009 1:08 PM
From: United States, NY
I don't believe it has anything to do with haitian-dominican relations, if any.
My only commentary is that the Embassy belongs to the US therefore making it US-related in most senses (I really hope that's not mind-boggling). So if something is happening in the US then the US embassy in the DR would somehow be affected or acknowledge it. Now obviously this can't be said for everything going on in America but it is a month long celebration. And in order for a round table discussion and film viewings concerning black history to be taking place at Santo Domingo State University there must have been some Dominican interest. Perhaps those of you asking why such an event is taking place need to target that question towards the Dominicans interested in such a concept, ¿verdad?
From: United States
brilliant deduction, vacanos. by the way, are you going to take up the challenge and announce your whiteness in the town square of Horsehead, Mississippi?
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 1:10 PM
From: United States
gizmo
or the racist masacre of 1805 by christophe and desalines on white and mulato.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:10 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks The Afro-Centrist remind me of the Haitian people. They're like the boy that cried wolf. They always play the victim, and never see themselves as the victimizers. This one's for you too Baldoria23. In short you will deny anything that conjures guilt towards you, but you always fail to see you're wrongdoings.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Gizmo, YES, we should engage in dialogue, and bring all these issues to the table. Not that racism in the DR is exclusively a DR-Haiti issue, but yes bringing in the historical issues like the haitian liberation/occupation is important.
But, one should not use history to justify discrimination and oppression today. We should, first of all QUESTION history, b/c maybe, just maybe, it may be a little biased - just a thought. But we should study history to learn of previous discrimination and oppressions so that we combat them TODAY!!!
Does that make sense? if it doesn't let me know, b/c I have a lot of material on critiquing history and how history has been used to justify oppression time and time again throughout the world- against women, against jews, against non-white, against the poor, against gays... You name it! But what you have to understand is that we need to question history, b/c the dominant group is the one who has written the history books we read in school...
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 1:13 PM
From: United States
dread
no only my dominican heritage which happen to be spanish.
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
Arsino: what's the best thing to do about it?
Baldoria:
Foment: to instigate or foster rebellion:
Are you at least 40 years old? Do you remember La Revolucion? Where was there more unrest , where were the most young radicals, and political activists? En la UASD!
That's the last place you want some secret agent setting off a subversive molotv cocktail under the guise of a Roundtable. Por favor, we're grown ups that have been around the block (la manzana y no solo NY, sino la Isabela Catolica, Arzobispo Meriño, la Mella..) a few times.
If you don't know ask somebody who's been there.
I recognize there are racial conflicts within our nation; However, do you need Johnny Johnson to come to lecture our folks about how they do Black History?
We have our own Black History: Lillis, Luperon, Santana brothers (mixed), Peña Gomez, Corporan de Los Santos, Johnny Ventura, Mama Tingo, Julito Dechamps, Fausto Rey, Cuco Valoy, Rico Carty, Alberto Beltran, Joseito Mateo, El canario..
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Oy Gizmo, guess what? people who deny that there are systemic factors that support existing inequality and injustice and who based people's success and failures on the individual; are just as simple minded - no offense intended - as people who blame everything on a monolithic system of control.
Here's a little insight - it's both! and to address social injustice you need to look at both institutionalist as well as individualist factors. Can you see that? can you?
From: United States
thank you, Manhattanite, for enlightening certain posters to the fact that there are artifacts of Dominican history and culture (such as the aforementioned statue of JP Duarte) in the USA. and Talia, a most wonderful posting ; that was a beautiful response to those who fail to understand that the US embassy is just that; a private institution. those who want to see the exhibit are free to go. those who are ambivalent will not be menaced by pictures of Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King on the Malecon
From: United States
Good point talia. BTW Lautaro I agree I would not like racial finger-pointing of the US style to appear in DR. However if you have confidence in DR's culture and system then there is nothing to fear from either a domestic or expatriate discourse of blackness. BECAUSE it is a material fact that most Dominicans are well blended there will never be a material basis for this particular aspect of US cultures to take root. In fact the outcome of discourse with DR, the Caribbean & Latin America is actually more likely to change the US perception.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 1:18 PM
From: United States
baldoria
the anti-hatian come from their own doing. please read some book about their invasion and masacre from 1801-1844. We dominican had been the victim. We let them in our land and a few year later they tried to take over the island. We can't never low our gurad with those people. trust me. they are savalve if you don't believe me look at their land there is no tree left. If we let them we will have no tree left too in 50 year.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:20 PM
From: United States
Baldoria23 History has not been changed, certain chapters are just ignored. Do you believe in the theory of "cause and effect." Well i do, what happened in the past was a cause and what we have today is the effect.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Arsenio, I wasn't around then, but perhaps the UASD, like other universities around the world, was such a revolutionary place b/c people there read social theory and they realized that the world was not just shadows on the wall - reference to Plato. In all oppressive regimes, universities lead the way for change. Maybe if more people had access to reading Locke, de Beauvoir, Foucault, Marx, Jefferson, and others, perhaps then we would have an electorate that would not be willing to settle for a chicken to go vote for the most corrupt politicians. Perhaps we would have a people who would see injustice and RECOGNIZE IT and then fight to eliminate it.
So yes, the UASD is a potential place of revolutionary thinking, we just need to create more of these spaces and get more people access to these spaces so that it's not the ONLY place ;-)
The only ones who have to fear change are those oligarchs who continue to horde the fruits of our nation...
From: United States
even more spectacular, vacanos. i can just see you now. "hey there, mister..yes, you in the pickup truck with the ten shotguns and the dogs..my name is vacanos..i am from the Dominican Republic, and i am a white man, spanish to be exact, but white just like you"...BOOM!!
From: United States
i am dying from laughter...vacanos imploring Baldoria to read history. things are really going downhill in a big hurry.
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
Arsenio, I wasn't around then, but perhaps the UASD,
BD:
Well if you weren't around then you probably wouldn't know where this expession comes from either: "Apuntalo en un papelito de celofan, belleza"!
That fomenting will start somthing that they may regret afterwards.
Keep on dreamin'....De la Soul!
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:29 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks, You have a problem with anything white, because in you're tiny useless brain, you think that being white is an exclusivity of the U.S. or Europe. 'Oh no' there's black in the four corners of the earth, but whites are trapped in two continents LMFAO. How ignorant.....
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 1:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Manhattanite said: "I agree I would not like racial finger-pointing of the US style to appear in DR. However if you have confidence in DR's culture and system then there is nothing to fear from either a domestic or expatriate discourse of blackness. BECAUSE it is a material fact that most Dominicans are well blended there will never be a material basis for this particular aspect of US cultures to take root. In fact the outcome of discourse with DR, the Caribbean & Latin America is actually more likely to change the US perception."
Well, I don't know Manny. With the adoration that a large part of our populace have for everything coming from the US (and I mean EVERYTHING) one can never be too sure if there's not going to be a group of morons out there trying to replicate a similar system here (although they would be hard pressed to do so by their scant numbers alone). Although I'm hopeful that, if we haven't adopted that system in over a century of cultural exchange, there's (cont...)
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 1:31 PM
From: United States
dread
then you are the tupical african american activist allways claming to be the victim for their lazyness. who allways try to get money from the govt and housing project. and when a respectable african american try to talk about they start telling their own people he is another uncle tom. so sad
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 1:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont..) there's no reason to believe that we will end up adopting it now. Thank the heavens that we have remained utterly insular on that particular score.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
History has not been changed? are you serious about that? Truth is in the eye of the beholder... 10 people can see one thing, and interpret it differently, and the one who writes it down is the only one that gets read 100 years from now. Moreover, lets say you have three versions, the only one which gets into the books we read in school are the ones that support the status quo. Look at the Bible, do you really think there were only 4 gospels? There's evidence that all the apostles wrote their own version, and even Maria Magdalena wrote one, but only the 4 cannonical gospels were included in the bible b/c they were the only ones that presented a story that supported the Vatican version of the story - you can google for more details. Do you see my point? only what supports the dominant groups' view of reality is presented as legitimate. That's why we must question history and come up with a set of criteria based on HUMAN RIGHTS to assess social problems & push for change!
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:36 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks most Black Americans that i have encountered are racist biggots, just like any white or any color in the racial spectrum.
Written by: talia, 13 Feb 2009 1:38 PM
From: United States, NY
Back to the point of the article-
I don't believe it has anything to do with haitian-dominican relations, if any.
My only commentary is that the Embassy belongs to the US therefore making it US-related in most senses (I really hope that's not mind-boggling). So if something is happening in the US then the US embassy in the DR would somehow be affected or acknowledge it. Now obviously this can't be said for everything going on in America but it is a month long celebration. And in order for a round table discussion and film viewings concerning black history to be taking place at Santo Domingo State University there must have been some Dominican interest. Perhaps those of you asking why such an event is taking place need to target that question towards the Dominicans interested in such a concept, ¿verdad?
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
My ultimate point is that If history is a tool for hate, then it should not be ignored, but it should be a factor in our discussion while we try to build a better society
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
ah that's another good example - how many people have heard that Dominican migrants in the US are lazy, sell drugs, steal cars, get pregnant so they can get welfare? Well, I'm sure that's true for a percentage of the Dominican migrants. But if that's the ONLY version of the story that gets out in the media and books, then the vast majority of Dominican migrants who work, pay their taxes, go to school are ignored and erased from history, and the only thing that remains are these stereotypes.
Are you getting it Gizmo? maybe what we've read in books are telling part of the story! Maybe we should reference history, discuss it, but not use it to support discrimination and hate. Maybe we should dare to work for a better future free of discrimination against women, non-whites, the elderly, migrants, people of other religions, homosexuals, etc.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:46 PM
From: United States
Baldoria23 Cause and effect, if you did not get it? two country's constitute the island of Hispaniola, that speaks volumes. The real version of the history of the island are found on books written close to when the events took place. Stay away from new versions that try hard to dispell the brutality of the past, especially those books that hide obvious truth's. The internet is a bad source especially sites like Wikipedia where anyone can be an editor and change things to there own liking. Im just suggesting you are you're own judge and jury.
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
My qualm here's not about Black History in the states. My first favorite book was a biography of Martin Luther King; Malcom X was killed 9 blocks from my apartment building. W. E. Dubois was a true intellectual in my opinion; Duke Ellington's apartment on St. Nicholas Ave. was near my neighborhood; Harriet Tubman, and Sojourner truth were true messengers of wisdom.
I know Black History: I attended NYC public schools, then City College. Black History has flourished as I grew up. But, to try and have the Diplomatic/ Embassy staff lecture Dominicans on Black History is frivolous and unwarranted.
There's an insidious method to this madness:
http://www.worldtribune.com/world....WTARC/2009/ss_media0117_02_10.aspThat's what they're up to!
Elites exporting their newfangled "global" philosophy; Then, they flee after they're through to their concierge, and valet catered roosts. "Changing Places"?
Written by: zak325, 13 Feb 2009 1:54 PM
From: United States
It's sad to see that the sprit of Trujillio is still very much alive in the minds of many Dominicans Today.
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
From: United States, New York City
"is it possible to have a reasoned discussion about racial issues without someone turning it into the obligatory Haiti/Dominican Republic foodfight? does any and every attempt at academic inquiry have to be dragged into the gutter of insults and silly witticisms?"
Dread, I'm surprised by this post of yours. You've been on this site for some time and you've indicated that you travel to DR on a regular basis. As such you should know that you cannot have a discussion concerning race with a Dominican without Haiti popping up in the discussion. It can't be done. The whole Dominican concept of what is authentically black is thoroughly intertwined with how most Dominicans view haitians, which in itself is an important component of how most Dominicans ultimately view themselves.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 1:59 PM
From: United States
Zak325, Can you elighten us on any book written by Trujillo. Please share with us a book authored by Trujillo, give me titles and dates.
From: United States, (on Sabbatical)
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Arsenio, ok, you went to public schools in NYC. Did you read "Bury my heart at wounded Knee" or anything about the origins of the Labor movements in the US? Did you read anything about the US's involvement in the dictatorships in LAC in the latter half of the 20th cent.? Did you learn about the arbitrary killings of innocents in viet nam? you probably read things about the founding fathers, the lousiana purchase, manifest destiny, FDR, the cold war, and the fall of berling wall... Ask yourself why did you only read positive things of US history? maybe the edu. system wants to create nice loyal citizens that think the Gov. is always right and Good.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:08 PM
From: United States
Blame everything on Trujillo, Let's see Trujillo did not even exist in any atom sized shape when Haitians attempted to occupy and massacre everyone on sight in 1805, or a couple of years back 1801, 1822-1844. Where was Trujillo Zak, Where was you're selfmade boogeyman Zak325 WHERE ZACKY.....
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:09 PM
From: United States
Zack was eaten by a shark?
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Gizmo, you have to think broader. You're supporting current discrimination of your fellow Dominicans how by some accident of history are not-white. You support this discrimination and continue oppression b/c Haiti liberated/occupied the eastern park of hispanola. Does that sound rational to you?
Furthermore, it's not clear if you're denying that there is racism in the DR or not, but you're against any discussion of the sort. I'm I getting your argument right? I just want to make sure, b/c you're all over the place.
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 2:20 PM
From: United States
Gizmo,
Dominican Republic is a "Black Country" with different shades. PERIOD.
The Statistical Break Down:
84% Black/mixed (Either pure black or mixed with African/Haitian blood)
16% White (European descent)
Therefore, a country where 84% of the population carry African/Haitian DNA, is a black country. CASE CLOSED.
Black History Month is being promoted in DR just to give ill-informed Dominicans a dose of reality about their true heritage, which is the African heritage, not the Spanish heritage as they have been made to believe. It's a time for Dominicans to reflect on their true identity and to see the light.
I am urging all Dominicans to participate in the "Black History Month" activities"
By the way, Obama's book title is "The Audacity of Hope". Frederick Douglas was U.S. Ambassador to Haiti, 1889-1891. He said "The freedom that has come to the colored race is largely due to the brave stand taken by the sons of Haiti".
"The Voice of Reason"
From: United States, New York City
"You support this discrimination and continue oppression b/c Haiti liberated/occupied the eastern park of hispanola."
Liberated and occupied are words that have totally different meanings and as such this sentence made no sense to me.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 2:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Cruz666 said: "Gizmo, Dominican Republic is a "Black Country" with different shades. PERIOD.
The Statistical Break Down: 84% Black/mixed (Either pure black or mixed with African/Haitian blood), 16% White (European descent).Therefore, a country where 84% of the population carry African/Haitian DNA, is a black country. CASE CLOSED."
Do you see now, zak, what we dominicans are wary about? It's not the discussion in itself, but the fact that ignorant sheep like the one above trying to impose their afro-centric, one-droppist XIX century theories and agenda on the dominican populace. If that is not asking for disaster then I don't know what it is.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
ciba, like I've been saying all along - history is in the eye of the beholder. One person's occupier is another person's liberator. It's the point I've been trying to make that history is not a unitary event as is portrayed in history books. You can find different descriptions of the same event. Case in point, is the current stymulus package in the US a bill to create jobs or to create new government bureaucracy?
Do you see what I mean? in case you don't, let me spell it out for your in simple terms, Regardless of whether you see the Haitians as liberators or invaders in the early 19th cent., it does not justify or legitimize a social structure that discriminates and promotes hatred. Let me know if you want me to rephrase or provide a different approach...
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 2:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Maybe the afrocentric troll is so ignorant that he can't grasp the fact that both terms are mutually exclusive, cibaeño.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Uh... the DR is a multicultural society! Don't be afraid of an African-centered approach that MAY BE if we start this dialogue, be afraid of the CURRENT Euro-centric system we have today that discriminates and excludes the population from the riches of our land :-/
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 2:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Yes but that's no excuse to adopt the alternative that he wants, baldy, that is, for the DR to renounce its sovereignity when deciding who's a citizen of the country and who isn't. Specially when the rest of the world is not exactly giving a second thought to what others think when designing their own migration agendas.
From: United States
baldoria, i do not think either gizmo, or vacanos, two obvious nitwits, know what they are trying to say. reflexively, if you make mention of racial issues, you are a black american looking for a handout. i hate arguing with people att this level of the intellectual spectrum (if you can call it that). the silly stereoptypes of black people have to enter the debate. well, fellows, since you seek to link welfare with black people, i suggest you get yourself some access to media, be it newspapers, tv, or internet. you both seem to be cave dwellers, far removed from information. the amount of corporate welfare now being dished out to the folks who looted the US economy dwarfs all the welfare and food stamps payments for the last 10 years, combined. do you sincerely believe that it is the american blacks who either stole this money, or are getting this handout? if you do believe that, then come see me when i offer the brooklyn bridge for sale.
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:35 PM
From: United States
gizmo will refuse a Haitian heart if you ever need one ?
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
I don't think that was his point. Claiming that the DR is a "black-country" - whether right or wrong - does not threaten its sovereignty. Let me ask you, does calling it a "white-country" threaten its sovereignty? I don't see your point Lau... I understood him making a different argument.
But besides this, fighting for a society that hails Human Rights and Justice as the cornerstone of how we treat people, is only a threat to the small percentage of the population who reap the benefits of our society.
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:36 PM
From: United States
gizmo will you refuse a Haitian lung if you ever need one?
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:36 PM
From: United States
Baldoria23 The Trujillo card is a favorite among Haiticentric believers. You see that's their defense mechanism, It comes down to race. But Haiti was established principally under racist ideologies, the only country with a constitution that forbids a race of people from owning any property or even call themselves by their own color grouping. You see no matter how you look at reality written in letters or recorded in document. The Haiticentric believer will justify the victimizer as long as he don't become the victim. So we are back to square one what's new.
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:37 PM
From: United States
gizmo will you instruct your doctor to let you die intead af giving you a black man heart ?
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:38 PM
From: United States
gizmo are you a confused man ?
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:39 PM
From: United States
Like i said you be the judge, "Cause and Effect."
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:39 PM
From: United States
gizmo will you receive a Haitian kidney if you ever need one ?
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:40 PM
From: United States
gizzy do not be a coward, tell the truth !
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:40 PM
From: United States
gizzy I am waiting
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:40 PM
From: United States
gizmo, would you rather die instead of accepting a Haitian lung if you ever need one ?
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 2:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Baldoria said: "I don't think that was his point. Claiming that the DR is a "black-country" - whether right or wrong - does not threaten its sovereignty. Let me ask you, does calling it a "white-country" threaten its sovereignty? I don't see your point Lau... I understood him making a different argument."
Maybe that's so because you haven't been following his line of thought in its entirety, baldy. If you'd take the bothersome and excruciating work of reading his every single post, you'll find only the following arguments: "Dominicans are lazy, haitians are the best, dominicans are passers and european wannabe's, haitians are proud of their "blackness", dominicans are criminal people, haitians upright and well-bred, therefore, the DR have to let every single haitian to do as he/she pleases on its territory". Everything based on an opportunistic use of the one drop rule to negate our rights to be a sovereign nation. (cont...)
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:42 PM
From: United States
how come people that post ignorant comments are usually cowards ?
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:43 PM
From: United States
gizzy, would you rather die instead of accepting a Haitian kidney if you ever need a kidney to live ?
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 2:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(Cont...) So I ask you, baldy: Can a discussion be properly sustained with such a binary individual?
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:44 PM
From: United States
gizmo I am waiting.
You do not need to think about the answer, Judging from you past posts your answer should have been prompt
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:46 PM
From: United States
gizzy, you do not need a whole day to think about it, Would you rather die instead of accepting a kidney fron a Haitian if you ever need one ?
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:47 PM
From: United States
You see the above commentary comes from a person that lacks knowledge! But yet he will see things within his own perspective ignoring the "Cause and Effect." For if things truly turned out differently than we wouldn't be two separate nations. But people are entitled to choose what course to take, and Dominicans chose correctly "Cause and Effect" very simple.
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:48 PM
From: United States
ok gizmo
I have got you to think. Something you have never done before.
I got you scared.
i got you in touch with your fragility and your own mortality.
Vanity Vanity ,it is all Vanity
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:49 PM
From: United States
gizmo I am waiting for my answer, Would you rather die instead of accepting a kidney from a Haitian if you ever need one ?
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 2:53 PM
From: United States
gizmo while you are healthy you post ingorant comments but when I get you to think about death and illness you chiken out.
I want my mommy
I want my mommy
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 2:58 PM
From: United States
Etiennc do you believe in "Cause and Effect"? I DO.
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 2:58 PM
From: Canada, home safe
arsenio you missing the point,answer to your question read Talia posting
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 3:01 PM
From: United States
cruz
88% to the lighter side. dominican come from either white or mulato to the white side. no pure black. pure black of the time didnt follow christianity and kept to their african culture.
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 3:04 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Fascinating..I am on the road today I am following with great interest on
my iPhone first to admit I may be addicted.
From: United States, New York City
"Dread stop throwing your shit into the fan and let the locals fight it out.....calling people mental midgets and nit wits enlightens nothing"
Goulet looking out for his investment. I have convinced myself that you have some financial stake in DT, which would totally explain your exagerated number of postings. You and maybe one or two others.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 3:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Ciby, what's your opinion about the attempt by some people of introducing the one drop rule into the country?
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
that is why after your apparent suicide we begged you to reconsider and return and continue posting from the Grassy Knoll
From: United States, New York City
"that is why after your apparent suicide we begged you to reconsider and return and continue posting from the Grassy Knoll"
That's not a denial.
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 3:13 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
The Haitians and the Haitian-Americans are on the intellectual front in the U.S.. the majority of black doctors (Physicians) in the U.S. are Haitians or Haitian Americans. The Haitians and Haitian-Americans are lawyers, doctors, nurses, system analysts, computer engineers, architects, engineers, scientists,
Dumarsais Simeus is a billionaire Haitian businessman in the U.S.
Patrick Gaspard is currently The White House Political Director in Obama's administration.
There are Haitian-American Mayors, Councilmembers, Assemblymembers, judges, deputy borough president, etc.. in New York and Florida. The current General Governor of Canada is a Haitian immigrant by the name of Michaelle Jean. I can go on and on...
You said that Haitians work for food and they are taking Dominicans' jobs. Why has your system encouraged Haitians to work in DR? I believe it's because Haitians are more effective and efficient workers.
"The Rational Mind"
From: United States, New York City
"Ciby, what's your opinion about the attempt by some people of introducing the one drop rule into the country?"
I think the one drop rule is nonsense. A distant white ancestor wouldn't make someone white so why should the reverse be true?
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 3:16 PM
From: United States
cruz
i was just correcting you in your previous wrong post.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 3:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Cruz666/LostForever/WhySmitty said: "You said that Haitians work for food and they are taking Dominicans' jobs. Why has your system encouraged Haitians to work in DR? I believe it's because Haitians are more effective and efficient workers.
"The Rational Mind"
See baldy, what did I tell you? He just can't contain his hatred for us.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 3:18 PM
From: United States
cruz
dispclacing us because they work for food or as slave while dominican don't . pure and simple
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 3:18 PM
From: United States
Vacanos I hope you're not wasting time answering Cruz666, That guy thinks that our country looks racially like Haiti. That guy probably has never set foot outside a batey full of Haitians. What he forgets is that Haiti is nothing but a prototype of West Africa, afterall Haitians are 95% pure Black with no admixtures. And he's confusing the 1.5 million Haitians in D.R. that are trying hard to pass as Dominicans, but even the average dark dominican don't look like the average Haitiano what a poor soul.....
From: United States
goulet, in the interest of fairness (you have heard of that word, haven't you?) , go read the whole thread ajnd see how it got there. when people start up with the racial stereotypes, and bring in welfare, then i get incensed. especially when it is ignoramus types who know nothing about america besides where to find the subway. let these guys understand that white people commit as much, if not more, welfare fraud than people of color. they just do not believe it, because they think that whites are above that sort of thing. it is just like the cretin who ranted about the Dominican family size in America, then ran off with his tail between his legs when i showed that Hasidim in new york have a family average of 7.2 children. so, go chastise the ignorants. besides, this thread started as something to do with the US embassy and black history month. as an american citizen, and a black man, i have every right to be involved. i stay away from haitian threads, for obvious reasons.
From: India
Alexandra response to adaniels
Thanks baby for your comment .I agree with you many of my people think they are white but they are just confused. However not all of us think in the same way.
From: Haiti
why you guys have to always come back with Haitian im. to DR. Is that the only problem exist here. what about the Dominicans im. to the US or Haiti 90% of you here are immigrants, I don t know why you leave your country and it s none of my bussines, but what s bothering me it s the way with no shame you r judging other immigrants. I m remembering you that you all bear the same name "IMMIGRANTS" and a way to another you r a pain in the a*** to the others, so leave me alone with your BS comments ,they don t mean nothing. I just turn on the projector here.
From: United States, New York City
haitian'04, not all of us are immigrants. Many of us were born in the states.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
I am an immigrant and proud of it..... many times
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 3:51 PM
From: United States
hizmo I have warned you, you will not listen. Now you are having your cause and effect:
hizmo -cause
Haitian1804 -effect
Bye
Bye Bye Bye Bye
From: United States, New York City
"I am an immigrant and proud of it..... many times"
Good for you..some of us were born Red, White and Blue and proud of it as well.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 3:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Now, regarding the issue at hand, this really shows that the UASD has really buried the hatchet, in the sense that, since the late 60's, it characterized itself for its anti-US views more than any other academical institution in the country. I wonder if this gesture on their part is sincere or just plain opportunism? Has it really forgotten its "Remember Caamaño, Amin Abel and Sagrario Diaz" and "Yankee go home" discourses? I'm sure that Belial and abc200 would have really felt at home over there.
Written by: adaniels , 13 Feb 2009 4:06 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
Tiger can claim whatever he desires to claim. The joy of living in america, this is why people from all over the world want to live here. WE can do what we want to do, buy what we want to buy and travel where we want to TRAVEL!
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 4:12 PM
From: United States
Lautaro,
If I really hated DR or Dominicans, I would have never taken 10 trips to DR. I would have boycotted it. You make no sense when you say I hate Dominicans. You are flat out lying. I have known some Dominicans who are some of the finest people that I ever met. When Haitians or Haitian-Americans say that they will never go to DR, I always tell them these folks are our neighbors and it's worthy of paying them a visit and get to know the other side of the island.
The Rational Mind"
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 4:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
If you don't hate us, then how come you keep repeating the same LIES and BS like a broken record all over again, such as: "Haitians are more effective and efficient workers, dominicans are european wannabe's, etc."? If that's not hating, lying and defaming in true Nazi/Goebbelian fashion, then I don't know what it is. As I told you on another forum: "Te conozco bacalao aunque vengas disfrazado".
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 4:22 PM
From: United States
cruz
obviouslly they do pay us a visit but como manada.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 4:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Yes, mr. 1804, specially when their leader is a little malicious jesuit priest and wannabe king. Aristide only got what was coming to him.
Written by: zak325, 13 Feb 2009 4:32 PM
From: United States
First thing Giz, I never stated Trujillio ever wrote a book, i don't know if he was even literate. I do know that he was a clever manipulator of the masses, he made "real" the fear of "Los Negros", the fear that lives in the Dominican psyche since the time of the Haitan invasion. The fear you have comes from the legacy of his policies, not the original Haitan invasion. That is what Trujillio has done.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 4:36 PM
From: United States
cruz
You really believe what you say? You should know better the anti-Haitian sentiment in DR. I will give you a hint 1801-1844. They could not stay in their side of the island. They killed the white and mulato, rape our women, throw our kids into the air for an awaiting bayonet, tried to abolish Christianity. Half of the white and mulato population in the Espanola fled for Puerto Rico, Cuba and Venezuela by 1830. Thank God for Duarte who came back to freed us. The only mistake made during the independence was not to drive the Haitian back to the ocean fair game usually in war winner take all. . But we were peaceful people who just wanted to be let alone with our faith. For the a thousand time get it thru your head the reason there is a DR is because my ancestor fought for the Spanish idea not the black Haitian.
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 4:55 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
I have a simple response for you. Toussaint Louverture liberated the entire island.
Haitians never invited any European countries to come back and take over the island again; However, DR did.
Haitians are peaceful people. Remember they didn't ask to be brought to the island. They were kidnapped in Africa by the same barbaric Europeans that you are claiming as your heritage. Atrocities, rapes, murder, barbarism were committed against the pacific Haitians/enslaved Africans. When the Haitians rose up and gave the Europeans a taste of their own medicine, it was simply in self-defense. It was legit. Haitians don't have to apologize to barbaric Europeans. We are the children of Africa. Africa is where the first human being first walked the face of this earth.
Dominicans with good judgment should embrace their African ancestry, not the European's. The Europeans were the enemies of Blacks freedom. Europeans can go to hell !!!
"The Rational Mind"
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 4:57 PM
From: United States
Africa is the mother land.
"The Voice of Reason"
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 4:59 PM
From: United States
Why don t you guys meet some place and fight it out.
You are living in the US
What about meeting if Florida where i live, I will be the referee.
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 5:01 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
Who is controlling DR today? the small percentage of Europeans? the 16%. Right?
"The Rational Mind"
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 5:05 PM
From: United States
etiennc,
I am down. Let's organize a face-to-face meeting. If we can't settle our difference intellectually, then we can proceed to a fist fight (What we call here "ultimate fight"). Maybe we should do it "Pay-Per-View. We can make lot of money. LOL
"The Rational Mind"
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:07 PM
From: United States
"louvertune liberated the entire island"
yeah go to DR and tell the people there what you just telling here making a fool out of you and while you at it tell them also that juan pablo duarte was a criminal. let see if you make it out alive.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:09 PM
From: United States
cruz
who kidnapped the slave in africa?
try their own people
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:11 PM
From: United States
cruz
wait hold on you actually claiming here it wasnt the african tribu people who sold the slaves to the european?
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 5:18 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
The slave trade was a European venture. I sign and affirm what I say. Are you satisfied?
You are preaching violence. I am not. If you go to Haiti, you can say whatever you want. Haiti has freedom of speech. You will come out alive.
"The Voice of Reason"
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:23 PM
From: United States
cruz
i didnt get you did you know or did you not knew that it was the african tribe people who sold their own people to the european?
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:28 PM
From: United States
im not preaching violence. Im just a realist of what is to happen if you try to humiliate and slander the dominican people in their own soil.
From: United States, Reality Check
Gizmo, I did not say that all Dominicans were mixed but stated the majority were mixed! However, even the US criteria was used then these all would be classified as black. I have friends & family who are mixed-race with something else & black (latino & black or white & black) but they are classified as black by default on the birth certificates like President Obama. Reality Check!
Whites soon forget that their forefathers were all immigrants here at one time in history but stole land to gain wealth, became agriculture icons with zero cost labor while keeping all the profits.
History repeats itself today as bank execs get big paydays while laying off the lower class.
And yes, it is true that I have SUPER-POWERS where I can be blind-fold and fell a woman's azz and determine if she has some portion of African descent. This super power has been time tested and +80% effective!
Gizmo, you are making yourself look un-intelligent!
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 5:50 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
African tribes were always at peace living a smooth day-to-day life in their homeland. The barbaric Europeans came and kidnapped my ancestors and treated them like animals and scattered them all over the world like cattles. The Europeans divided the African families. They raped my great great grandmothers and sisters. How would you have felt if you were in their place?
"When you talk about Europeans, History has proven that the Haitians were right over and over again to defeat the Spanish, the English and the French/Napoleonic troops .
Thank you Toussaitnt Louverture !!!!
Thank you Jean-Jacques Dessalines !!!
Long live BLACK HISTORY MONTH !!!!
Long live Anti-Slavery activist Frederick Douglas !!!!
Again, all Europeans can go to hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Rational Mind"
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 5:58 PM
From: United States
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 6:06 PM
From: United States
"Slavery was practiced in Africa before the beginning of the Atlantic slave trade.[10] Slavery and the slave trade were an integral part of African societies and states which supplied the Arab world with slaves for centuries before the arrival of the Europeans.[11] The African slave trade provided a large number of slaves to Europeans and their African agents.[12][13"
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 6:09 PM
From: United States
I agree european had no right in following african tradition of slaves. it is immoral inhuman, worst astrocity a human being is having someone as slave. yet don't come here saying african people were free of sin when it came to slavery.
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 6:15 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
wikipedia is the most unreliable source.
Who brought the slaves to the island? The Arabs? The Africans? or the Europeans? Answer me!
"The Voice of Reason"
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 6:41 PM
From: Canada, home safe
gizmo=arkatype=bohanon=vacanos can anyone tell the difference ?
Written by: antonioj, 13 Feb 2009 6:47 PM
From: Canada, home safe
vacanos most of these Dominicans settle in an area call santiago in Cuba as of today el accento Dominicano is muy prevalent, by the way santiago is the most mixed region in Cuba
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Let's all take a collective laxative to help us excrete our prejudices.
Let's stop all denial, for we are culturally conditioned to be racist. We distinguish between shades of black, and even believe that race can be bleached by financial status. Anybody who doesn't believe that just has to remember everyday schoolyard terms such as: cocolo; bembu; mulato; negro de mierda; prieto feo; culua; etc. Regrettably, I must admit to have uttered some of these terms myself and am sorry for it.
Those of us of light skin and straight hair can also go on fooling ourselves. Here in US it really doesn't much matter. You are Dominican and, therefore, a minority indistinguishable from black. I have a non-Spanish European last name, and have been encouraged to anglicize my first name so people are not confused-the nerve! I am proud of my heritage and I will not change it for no one!
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 7:16 PM
From: United States
vacanos,
Barbaric Europeans were not just satisfied to bring slaves to the Western Hemisphere, they also went inside the continent of Africa and colonized the African people. They continued their mistreatment of the black race in its own homeland.
"The Rational Mind"
From: United States
The 'rational' mind has simply traded one set of bigotries and hatreds for another. Him and gizmo and vacano are the same thing, silly internet provocateurs. Thanks to all the rest for the dialogue, enjoy Friday night!
Written by: USADR, 13 Feb 2009 8:00 PM
From: United States
Does anyone find any irony in the fact that African American Afrocentric idealogues are the most vigorous defenders of OneDroppism? A white invention, imposed upon the US black population and enforced with all sorts of racial laws, is now ingrained into the culture.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 8:02 PM
From: United States
Who brought the slaves to the island? The Arabs? The Africans? or the Europeans? Answer me!
EUROPEAN
answer me this then who sold the slaves to the european?
that is worst than what the european did.
you could understand that people allways go with their race but to sell your own race that is just worst.
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 8:20 PM
From: United States
antonio
esos decendientes de domnicanos ahora desean que sus relativos hubiesen quedados en la Republica peliando los haitianos salvajes. Ahora estan viviendo en un infierno comunismo. Que mala suerte.
Written by: ateo1992, 13 Feb 2009 8:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic
i don't care
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 8:28 PM
From: United States
etienn
Quisqueyanos valientes, alcemos Nuestro canto con viva emoción,
Y del mundo a la faz ostentemos Nuestro invicto glorioso pendón.
Salve el pueblo que intrépido y fuerte, A la guerra a morir se lanzó
Cuando en bélico reto de muerte Sus cadenas de esclavo rompió.
Ningún pueblo ser libre merece Si es esclavo indolente y servil;
Si en su pecho la llama no crece Que templó el heroismo viril.
Más Quisqueya la indómita y brava Siempre altiva la frente alzará:
Que si fuere mil veces esclava Otras tantas ser libre sabrá
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 8:36 PM
From: United States
OH MY GOD.I shoud have known better. This is Friday the 13th
Written by: vacanos, 13 Feb 2009 8:55 PM
From: United States
take a hike now
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
route 66 is a babbling Afronazi who discredits everything Fredrick Douglass worked for
From: United States
GC we are in agreement! etiennc very funny! vacano pride is good, but if you argue with a hateful fool that is you end up sounding like each other.
Written by: Aissedei, 13 Feb 2009 9:25 PM
From: Puerto Rico, On a rock.. PR
Wow, that's a lot of drama over Black History Month. Just for everyone's information, As mentioned previously it was a celebration put on by the U.S. Embassy because of Balck History month in the U.S. Furthermore, for the conspiracy theorists out there... All Federal Government Offices are expected to have some type of celebration for all of the dedicated protected EEO groups including Latino History, Black History, Women's History, and Disabled Awareness. Since its the job of the embassy is to interact with the RD they made a lame attempt to include Dominicans. Obviously they should have made it a little more to do with African Culture within the RD. However, in my opinion for people to get this upset over talking about African Culture etc in and of it self indicates there are racial issue even if they're not as open and obvious as in the U.S.
From: United States, New York
Baldoria, interesting points you brought up in your earlier comments. There are two very important factors that you seem to ignore in your analysis of race & class in DR, which I would like to address. First, the reason for the people on top being mostly white and those at the bottom being mostly colored is because of the legacy left behind by the colonizers. Although the conquistadors were by no means the cream of the crop in Spain/Europe, on average they tended to have more education. This is a sharp contrast to the situation most colored people found themselves in, where they were slaves that in many cases were never taught to read or write, had no money or land to develop enterprises, and once freed were simply thrown to the barrios. This development was not the Dominican way of doing things, it was the European colonial way of doing things, and Dominicans should not be blames or portrayed as racist because of this.
From: United States, New York
Second, a lot of poor Dominicans (which happen to be people of color) have been undoing their own poverty during the past few decades through emigration to other countries. The calls to end poverty today are not coming from within with the hopes of helping other Dominicans, but are coming from international organizations with the hopes of helping Haitians and their descendants, since the last thing they want is to have them emigrating to their own countries. Take for example people from the bateyes, they went to DR to work and even though the job they went to do has long been gone, they have stayed because deporting them would have been "inhumane," yet the same countries that claim this barely let any Haitian immigrants in at all. Practical people are not using the the 150-year old Haitian invasion to justify rights violation, they are using what they see developing before their own eyes to know what mistakes not to repeat.
Written by: Gizmo , 13 Feb 2009 9:37 PM
From: United States
Cruz666 Toussaint, Dessalines, Boyer are a bunch of losers. Look at the state of Haiti today. Haiti is the poorest country in this side of the world. Spare me from making you cry, study each 'supposed' hero of Haiti. Then make the proper assessment you end up with 0 nothing good evolved from these so called freedom fighters, only resentment and more struggles. Oh yes the Haitian mulatto minority hates most of the majority black's of Haiti. Good riddance.....
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 9:58 PM
From: United States
This is Friday the thirteen
anyone out there try this simple experiment
Say
gizmovocanoscruz666
gizmovocanoscruz666
gizmovocanoscruz666
three times and tell me what happens to you.
I tried and I had a bowel movement .
From: United States
just a word of advice to people like vacanos and gizmo. had it not been for the struggles of the people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, i do not think that too many dominicans would have been able to emigrate to the USA. even if they did, they would probably be subjected to inhumanities like the Dred Scott decision. so , instead of raving about lazy people looking for welfare, you might want to thank the people who made it possible for you to be treated like a human being in the USA. they fought, and died, so succeeding generations could receive opportunities and dignity. what did you do? get a visa and airline ticket? they planted the trees, so you can reap the fruits. now you want to demean them. you are pathetic.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dr. Dread,
Totally pretentious on my part, but I could not have said it better myself; that's why you are the doctor.
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 10:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Adding to that, dread, I find the black-pantherism of people like Cruz666 to be equally despicable, if not more, because people like him should know better than to fight the klansmen and other like-minded trash with their same methods. As Manhattanite have wisely pointed out, if one argues with a hateful fool with the same foolishness, one might end up sounding like that fool sooner or later. Intolerance can not be erradicated by fighting it with more intolerance in return.
From: United States
or, Mr Lautaro, as a wise man once stated "never argue with a fool, because, at a distance, nobody can tell the difference". are you listening, cruz? stay away from numbskulls!
Written by: etiennc, 13 Feb 2009 10:48 PM
From: United States
Dread lautaro
seriously I want you to try this experiment
say
gizmovacanoscruz666 3 times and se what wil happen to you
Written by: Lautaro, 13 Feb 2009 10:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Have you asked a houngan about the effects of that spell, ettienc? LOL ;-)
Written by: Cruz666, 13 Feb 2009 11:26 PM
From: United States
Who opened the door for people of color all over the world?
Answer: Toussaint Louverture, Martin Luther King, Frederick Douglas, etc...
If it wasn't for Toussaint Louverture and other black heroes, what would Domincans do in the U.S. today?
Answer: ...(You fill in the blank)
"The Rational Mind"
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 12:13 AM
From: United States
dread
Did I mention you seen like your "typical black amerian activist" the charlatan of Al Sharpton or Jessey Jackson or Jeremiah Wright. These kind of buffon preached for govt to give them money to feed their people and housing project for shelter for their people. and once they get what they want they start badmouth the people who gave them the handout. Take for instance wright he got all kind of federal aid for his "church" yet in every sermon he is asking the arabs to come roost the chicken out. Dread in you I see them. these people are taking their own people down with them. When they can't get up from the project to look for a job they blame the white people. when they get arrested it is racism. When a respectful african american try to talk about the issue and how to help their community these clowns are the first one to discredit these honest people. I see them I see you.
From: Haiti
Today is Valentines Day.... you guys have the whole year to be an a**hole, why don t you take to day off. any bad comments from anyone today will prove to the whole DT he s a lonely rejected person with no wife or girlfriend with no love..........BTW i like your comments etiennc I tried the spell oh God i can t describe what happen to me.
From: United States
I would like to thank all of the Black Americans for their achievement in fighting racism. Your struggle and success enabled us immigrants to migrate to the U.S. Thank you and Happy Black History Month.
Written by: Gizmo , 14 Feb 2009 10:50 AM
From: United States
Dreadlocks sorry to burst you're bubble but i dont fall into the black category, so no! i don't need to give thanks to the black civil rghts leaders of the past. That work was done to help Black Americans like you, gain acceptance in this Anglo-White American dominated society. I was not even born when these circumstances were occuring. Just remember nobody is claiming that D.R. is a white nation but it aint a black nation either, it's a multi racial country that don't need outsiders like yourself, pushing an anti-White Dominican agenda. Just because Black Americans were ill treated in such extreme terrible ways, it don't mean that you without any knowledge of a history that's portrayed under the false "Mantra" of 'Anti-Haitianismo' can accuse a country of being Anti-Black or anti anything. If there's a country in the face of the earth with a history of racial unity, similar to that of the Dominican Republic i would seriously have my doubts. Cont.,
Written by: Gizmo , 14 Feb 2009 10:54 AM
From: United States
You've been bamboozled by the Afro-Haiticentric sickos.
Written by: adaniels , 14 Feb 2009 11:12 AM
From: United States, Washington D C
PROUDTOBEHATIAN you are good man.I Don't debate with fools like gizmo because a fool will say anything and does not know when he has won or lost a debate or when enough is enough.
Written by: SonnyTee , 14 Feb 2009 11:37 AM
From: United States
Being Dominicans have roots in African descent, just as do African-Americans, we share many of the same struggles. European slavery, discrimination, etc. We also share the understanding of many martyrs from People of Color. In fact the earth is predominantly comprised from people of Color. So to those from the USA who have a problem with this, "GET OVER IT!"
Written by: CESAR, 14 Feb 2009 11:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
we are all black... our ancestors came from africa. los morenos estan de moda hoy en dia. lol,,
Written by: CESAR, 14 Feb 2009 11:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic
its the american cocolos that give black people a bad name. i mean they feel just cuz they ancestors where slaves, they feel like they should have the right to not work for the rest of their lives.
From: United States
Cruz666 would be appalled by Toussaint the wholly assimilated Francophile ... and he would feel insulted when MLK Jr. rejected him for his hateful ways.
Written by: CESAR, 14 Feb 2009 12:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic
adaniels,
why you say that?
From: Haiti
black is not just a color of the skin it s more than that, you can be black by different manners,even when the DR population have avery low % of black skin color, but it s so clear that the % of black in DR is above 80 %
Written by: adaniels , 14 Feb 2009 12:22 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
All the blacks i know work and some them like myself work everyday.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Cesar maybe you are correct about many stateside blacks ......they should get over it and stop being victims or playing the victim
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 12:44 PM
From: United States
Now we have a black man ruling the whole world. President Obama is smarter than all past U.S. presidents combined.
Black Power!
Happy "Black History Month"
I am glad that the U.S Ambassador in DR is forcing Dominicans to see light that DR is a black nation.
It's a time to reflect and to thank great heroes such as: Toussaint Louverture, Dessalines, Boyer, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama, Farrakhan, Bob Marley, Marcus Garvey, Medgar Evers, Aristide, Mandela, Henry Christophe, etc...
Enjoy this great songs by Bob Marley and Wyclef Jean. In the song Bob Marley says "None but ourselves can free our minds". The brave and incredible Haitians did just that. I love you Haiti cherie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHgMD1S0bghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNFBqhVFfTo&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqGyzWPpp4&feature=related "The Free and Rational Mind"
Written by: SonnyTee , 14 Feb 2009 12:55 PM
From: United States
Gouletcolonial,
You need to get over it. Because if you did, you'd realize that the dominantly Black country of Haiti, most likely the people you look down at, are the prime source for the eradication of slavery, as our history tells us. That as the gentleman Lautaro above basically expressed, "Welcome To The Club!" Just like Black President Obama of the USA. Call it miscegenation if you will on those (African) slave plantations. Today if you abuse our women like that, you go to jail. In fact we People of Color are a proud group. We don't need the beach for a tan.. And we don't need European type approvement, the be a man. I'm a happy light-skinned African. Born In The USA! misegination, maintain the
Written by: CESAR, 14 Feb 2009 1:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
?
From: United States
GC playing the victim is the American way. Just turn on your TV and watch the whining and entitlement of Americans of all colors. Don't pin that on blacks, who unlike most other groups here have historical and material causes for their political claims.
From: Haiti
he said he is black, etiennc
Written by: SonnyTee , 14 Feb 2009 1:23 PM
From: United States
Manhattanite,
In regards to Cruz's comments, different times call for different approaches. Our African liberators, came in all types. Some violent, some passive, and some strategized behind curtains. Unless you are a weakling, everyone fights in their own way. Haiti stood up for all enslaved People of Color , Africa included. Like religion, all of us are after the same prize. We may just happen to be taking different, not wrong, avenues. I look forward to the day when we unite, as our blood dictates us to. I know Cesar, you don't know what I'm talking about, but you will. I GUARANTEE IT!
From: Dominican Republic
Given that the U.S. embassy sent their afroamerican workers to a Dominican nightclub to show or demonstrate a so called "racism" in DR, this afro history show put up by the Embassy falls in line with the attitude of the U.S. that DR must swallow the illegals from the neighbor. Like another poster said,our Embassy in U.S. should hold activities highlighting or talking to the greatness of the mulatto and indian (natives) so that they understand what they did to their own native and imported population should be their first priority instead telling others that they have problem!
From: Dominican Republic
Sonnytee:
Haiti had imperialist ambitions! The 1801, 1805, 1822, 1845, 1849 and 1855 invasions were to conquer, colonize, and annex STO DGO/DR! Don't hid that fact with the original Haitian effert to kick the French out!
Unite? Unite your hole with your pipe because that will not happen. Nature has always favored diversity and heterogeneity as a way to ensure survival to all kinds of challenges. If we unite (homogenize), the human species will vunerable to diseases or climate changes or UV or Gamma rays leading to complete extinction. You fool, no man's law can violate nature's law! Diversity and adaptation are key to the humans! Keep all separate and may be we'll make it!
From: Haiti
pas le troudeballe mais plutot letroudecul
From: Dominican Republic
Haitian1804, Va te faire le pompier? Ou va te faire le enculer! Sale petit pe'de'!
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Written by: Manhattanite, 14 Feb 2009 1:10 PM
From: United States, New York City
GC playing the victim is the American way. Just turn on your TV and watch the whining and entitlement of Americans of all colors. Don't pin that on blacks, who unlike most other groups here have historical and material causes for their political claims......................Manny I thoroughly agree with you ...But it is the blacks a la Jackson and Sharpton et al who have brought it to an art form
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 1:58 PM
From: United States
etiennc,
For your knowledge, Obama is not hiding his blackness and his African heritage like the Dominicans. Read Obama's own words below:
"...after my election as the first black president of the Harvard Law review"
SOURCE: Obama's book "Dreams from My Father", 2004 edition, Introduction, page XIII.
"...the result of my election as the first African-American president of Harvard Law Review"
SOURCE: Obama's book "Dreams from My Father", 2004 edition, Preface, page VII.
Obama is married to a Black American woman also. Michelle Obama is the daughter of slave descent in the South.
Don't worry. Obama CAN NOT FAIL. The man is a genius. He defeated all the white candidates in their own game. He unites Blacks, Hispanics, Whites, Asian, Native Americans and Indian together.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Written by: SonnyTee , 14 Feb 2009 2:04 PM
From: United States
Generoso,
OK consider this. In the USA, where I was born, I have documentation that go back to 1810 in my lineage. 1810 in US slavery that is, with one rape in 1864. However, in the country where I was born, those of us of African descent, are called minorities, and classified as second class. Where my family fought it almost every prior war (I was in Viet Nam). However, a white born Cuban, never having put his life on the line, is extended rights over me, simply because he is white! Now in regards to imperialism, look at USA's former President Bush, and his ideology, before you finger Haiti. Were you talking about inbreeding? What I meant was that as Europeans carry their genes that lack melanin, we carry genes just the opposite. Diseases? By the way, was it not the Europeans, that leveled the Native American with their health issues? I am a result of slave inbreeding. Yet my health and appearance is immaculate. So is my mutt terrier. How is your health, separatist?
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 2:07 PM
From: United States
letroudedeballeGeneroso,
Haiti may have well had imperialist ambition, but the real reason that Boyer invaded DR was because DR was too willing to bring back Spain to the island as a colonizer. Remember that DR invited Spain to come back to the island to govern. Then DR also offers its country to the U.S., but U.S. rejected it.
Haitians liberated the island and freed it from european influence. "Pour le drapeau pour la patrie mourrir est beau"
"The Free and Rational Mind"
From: Dominican Republic
Historical reasons is not an excuse for entitlement! Otherwise Haiti can claim DR or Mexico can claim California/NM/CO/Utah/NV/AZ! All the U.S. can do is provide equal opportunity and incentivize good productive behavior under a safe environment for the minorities to enpower themselves. Don't feed destructive behavior (parasite sucking the host) and power greed (using the victimous angle) with History as an excuse! The next generation should always remember what happened before but they should never condition their attitudes + behavior to the point of self destruction.
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 2:10 PM
From: United States
gizmo
that was an excellent post. too bad dread can't see past reason.
From: Dominican Republic
Cruz666 I completely disagree!
Boyer conquered El Haiti Espanol to relocate his generals from focusing a Coup d'etat against him and also to get revenues needed to pay the debt with France (in addition, to fullfil the Haitian dream of owning the whole island)! It makes no military sense to spread your military forces over a wider coastline (territory) and leave the homeland vunerable to a NAVY that can land anywhere (learn history first).
DR invite Spain to take control of DR because of the numerous Haitian invasions of 1845, 1849 and 1855! And even Soulouque threatened to re-invade DR in 1859 and that push Santana to look for an European ally to protect us from another 1822-1844 military dictatorship!
IT WAS HAITI WHO PUSHED US TO GO BACK TO SPAIN IN 1809 AND 1860! Learn HISTORY!
From: Dominican Republic
Cruz666 I completely disagree!
Boyer conquered El Haiti Espanol to relocate his generals from focusing a Coup d'etat against him and also to get revenues needed to pay the debt with France (in addition, to fullfil the Haitian dream of owning the whole island)! It makes no military sense to spread your military forces over a wider coastline (territory) and leave the homeland vunerable to a NAVY that can land anywhere (learn history first).
DR invite Spain to take control of DR because of the numerous Haitian invasions of 1845, 1849 and 1855! And even Soulouque threatened to re-invade DR in 1859 and that push Santana to look for an European ally to protect us from another 1822-1844 military dictatorship!
IT WAS HAITI WHO PUSHED US TO GO BACK TO SPAIN IN 1809 AND 1860!
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 2:20 PM
From: United States
now please don't tell me you married
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 2:20 PM
From: United States
sonnytee
you are one of the few black american not in jail? and also you go a job. you are on a roll my friend
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 2:27 PM
From: United States
sonnytee
stop your hatred. will you rather be starving yourself in africa or be having all the luxury in the usa. stop whining. the same go to the haitian people they better off in haiti than ruanda where they are killing each other until the last one survive.
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 2:40 PM
From: United States
let me say it again the biggest mistake made by the indepdentista was not to drives the haitian people back to the sea. we let them in gave them huge land and they pay us by invading us.
Thank God for trujillo. at the time he was a necesery evil. trujillo stop them once and for all their imperialist ambition. Maybe what we need now is another trujillo.
From: Dominican Republic
Vacanos, I appreciate your last post!!!!
Here is another Haitian claim: "Afroamerican struggles annealed the U.S. to accept immigration."
So the Chinese in the 1870's was due to the blacks? The Spanish/Mexicans were in the West way before the Afro struggles in the colonies!!
Written by: USADR, 14 Feb 2009 2:55 PM
From: United States
Written by: Aissedei, 13 Feb 2009 9:25 PM
However, in my opinion for people to get this upset over talking about African Culture etc in and of it self indicates there are racial issue even if they're not as open and obvious as in the U.S.
USADR responds:
1. No one is arguing or 'getting upset' over African culture.
2. Black history month is an American holiday. It's based on African Americans, not Dominicans.
3. Dominicans are not Africans, Spaniards or sometype of Spanish speaking version of African Americans.
4. I have no problems with Black History month.
5. If you follow the progression of this thread, the argument evolves and augments when Afrocentrics, who are no better than Eurocentrics, start trying to lecture Dominicans by giving them revisonistic accounts of their own history, imposing foreign ethnocentric concepts upon the Dominican population, as well as random insults.
From: Dominican Republic
Sonytree:
You made my point! Homogenization can lead to extinction (as you already mentioned the natives). If we all thinking alike (may the same mistakes) and have no gene variations, WE ARE ALL SUCEPTIBLE TO QUICK AND UNSTOPPABLE EXTINCTION!
From: Dominican Republic
Vacanos, if it wasn't for Trujillo (1937), Dajabon would have been under Haitian jurisdiction now! Violence is the only language Haitian understand! If you dialogue, they will eat you alive! No talk has effect without the show or potential show of force!
From: Dominican Republic
USADR, at least the U.S. should not bring the celebration of their mess to DR! DR has its own problems and celebrations! And when it comes to race, DR/STO DGO experience race collision, extinction, and mixing well before the crappy U.S. came up with their experiment!
Written by: vacanos, 14 Feb 2009 3:23 PM
From: United States
letrouden
exactly. I wouldnt be surprise if that haitian woman with dominican citizenship who work for human rights who allways try to discredit us is behind all this crap.
Written by: adaniels , 14 Feb 2009 3:27 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
cruz666 you are on top of your game,and tell them that jerry curls went out in the 70's.
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 3:36 PM
From: United States
generoso,
You are totally and completely in the dark my friend. Wake up and smell deeply the coffee. check out the links below and learn about the truth and facts about Aristide's kidnapping. The involvement of Dominican Republic, Bush, France and Canada. This matter is now under investigation by the U.S. Congress. Bush blocked it. Now the democrats have re-opened the inquiry. Stay tuned!
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Haiti/Haiti_Q&A.htmlhttp://www.oldamericancentury.org/aristide.htm"The Free and Rational Mind"
From: United States
Letroudeballegeneroso
we need mamoth like you for our study.
We though that breed was extinguished.
You are a curiosity and should be placed in a glass box for viewing by young Dominicans and older Dominicans wha have escaped the bubble.
But , you know that you are being watched constantly.
You are not scary "Mucho viente y poco llivias"
From: United States
cruz666 I warned you to stop posting provocative comments and you will not heed to my advice.
You are getting dumber and dumber averyday
se pa grenn ou ou di peze
You are a coward, all you do is running your sticking posts mouth in the comfort of your Brooklyn run down apartment.
while your bothers and sisters visiting and living in the Dominican Republic .
You do not have one cent invested in the Dominican Republic. You could care less if Haitians are being attacked.
We will make a petition to DT to stop you from posting incendiary comments
Keep it up !!
Are not you ashamed ??
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 4:06 PM
From: United States
As the African-Americans rise so do Haiti and the Haitians everywhere because Haitian struggle has always been linked to African-American struggle and black struggle worldwide.
Haiti is in a very good position today with the fast rising of African-Americans and particularly with the election of the first Black American president.
Obama addressed the Haitian-Americans in Haitian Creole and English when he said "Investing in Haiti is not just the right thing to, it's also the smart thing to do. The Haitians have suffered so much." These are the words of President Barack Hussein Obama, the first Black U.S. President.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 4:12 PM
From: United States
etiennc01,
You see, you guys continue your stereotype BS.
1) I am a millionaire with a liberal mind
2) I live in one of wealthiest areas in Manhattan.
Your stereotyping people will make you more ignorant.
We are all learning from one another here. We don't have to agree on everything or on anything.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: antonioj, 14 Feb 2009 4:19 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: letroudeballeGeneroso, 14 Feb 2009 1:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Haitian1804, Va te faire le pompier? Ou va te faire le enculer! Sale petit pe'de'!
"
Hey ladies and gentleman this is Ondevert formerly Greenwave now his new name is letroudeballeGeneroso
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 4:23 PM
From: United States
etiennc01,
You want to stop me from posting while it's ok for Dominicans to promote hatred and violence. At least here we can debate ideas and sometimes heated discussions. Preventing me from posting here will result only on pushing me to open dialogues only with Human Rights Organizations. And you will have more to lose. Stopping me from posting will show how narrow minded you guys are. On what basis you want to stop me. Isn't this an open forum?
Go ahead, make my day!
Haitians never get intimidated. We are the children of Toussaint Louverture and Dessalines.
"Happy Black History Month"
"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 4:27 PM
From: United States
"Happy Valentine's Day" to everyone.
From now on, I'll be on the sideline watching only.
Bye Bye
"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: antonioj, 14 Feb 2009 5:09 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I have seen a pattern here ? anyone ? Dominicans turn every subject into an Haitian food fight and Haitians turn every Dominican subject into a race issue.
If you can not see the difference between --jet coal black Dieudone from PAP and Jose from cibao let me know what you are smoking.
The majority of DR population is of mix extraction that need to be acknowledged and respected as such, however I can understand their resentment when they are being forced in just one racial box ---that is simply unfair, let me point out the one drop rule was away to frobid white from marrying outside of their race.
Jim Crow is now dead, but its legacy lives on in current racial-classification practices.
Written by: Jander, 14 Feb 2009 5:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I couldn't resist
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 3:40 PM
From: United States
Now we have a black president in the White House, the Domincans are being forced to see the light that DR is a black country. Every year now DR will have to celebrate BLACK HISTOTY MONTH. If DR refuses, DR will risk losing all U.S. support.
"The Free & Rational Mind
"Now we have a half black president in the White House"
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
jander I prefer to use the term partially white president
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
GC,
Good point!
Frankly, I've never seen a DT a topic elicit such much passion as this one before; however, my tenure in this forum is so short. Anybody out there knows of another article which was more popular than this one?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
It's interesting indeed that I live in the Greater Rochester NY area, the home of Susan B. Anthony and also where Fredrick Douglas resided for a long while. Rochester was an instrumental piece of the underground railroad, which facilitated the escape of many slaves to Canada. Maybe we take it for granted here, but we really do not make as much fuss about this as it's being made in this forum.
From: United States
cruz666 millionaires are busy checking their portfolios and redistributing their assets the way the economy is now.
Millionaires do not have the time to try to influence nature with some kind of voodoo hoodoo crap or satanic incantation like Cross666.
The name cross666 betrays and angry person who can t make it in life and he is turning into a rebel. You have suceeded to have found a cause :Defending Haiti.
You live in one of the poor neighbohood in Brooklyn and your chimere reflexes gave you up.
You are too vague when you said that you live in the affluent neighbohood of Manhattan.
Be more specific tell me where in Manhattan you live.
You can not bull sht a bullshtter.
You are too radical to antagonistic too much of a an agent provocateur to be a millionaire.
Go finish eating your dog food.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Etienn,
You might be onto something! I take everyone seriously, so I was giving him benefit of doubt but, looking at it from your new angle, there may be reasons to be suspicious.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Our friends from Haiti have been dealt with perhaps a little harsh on this subject.
I, however, would like to offer a little something in their defense. My family does considerable construction and remodeling business in greater Miami, and we deal with all people. Haitian customers have been truly exemplary in terms of paying their bills, job satisfaction, honesty and decency. We also employ a few Haitians and they are very dependable, hard workers [all legal residents, so they don't need to work for us if they don't want to] and good friends. I would like to give them a heartfelt thank you and let them know how much I appreciate their business and friendship. That's all.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
good for you glomar
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 9:55 PM
From: United States
I just got back from hosting my popular TV show.
I am now planning a trip to Haiti, then to Africa to continue with my humanitarian work crusade. I might make a stop in DR too to visit my Haitian brothers and sisters in the bateys just to let them know that help is on the way.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Written by: Lautaro, 14 Feb 2009 11:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Lautaro,
Thanks for link.
How could I forget such a recent article. Similar discussions to those in present article.
Haitian-Dominican relations presently very delicate. Don't know if deep-seated feelings I read here can be reconciled. Absorption of nearly two million immigrants very taxing economically and culturally, and resentment is inevitable. Problem compounded by past occupations/invasions history. Inciting comments from Haitian contributors to forum don't help, either. No easy solutions...someone else needs to execute effective plan to stabilize Haiti, foment economic development and effect repatriation of its citizens. This may be too heavy a burden for DR to bear and it is incumbent upon western world to step in and assist.
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 9:28 AM
From: Canada, home safe
The great one have spoken, case is close, unless Rubi has a moment of genius ... The fact is, there is a better chance of being hit by an asteroid than that happening.
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 12:34 PM
From: United States
you got to give it to these cookohead. now they are talking as to who we should celebrate. imagine if they have a true country. they will again try to invade us again. WATCHING THESE NITWIT MAKE ME THINK TRUJILLO IS MY HERO. THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH.
I CANT WAIT FOR ANOTHER TRUJILLO AND ROOT THEM OUT OF OUR SOIL THOSE INGRATE DESERVE TO STARVE TO DEATH LIKE THEIR COMPATRIOTS IN AFRICA.
CAN YOU GUY AT LEAST LET US CELEBRATE WHO WE WANT
Written by: Cruz666, 15 Feb 2009 12:58 PM
From: United States
I have never seen a people so ungrateful like the Dominicans. Haitians liberated them. Haitians are the lubricant that greases the wheels of their economy.
I caught a Dominican in New York bragging how he is from the island of Hispaniola and he has French culture, But he didn't realize that I was Haitian and there was also a Porto-Rican friend of mine there. The Porto-Rican told him that "I know Haitians have a strong French influence in their cultutre and Haitians speak French, but not Domincans." The Dominican guy left all embarrassed because he was caught pretending something that he is not.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 1:10 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Some of you need to create your own thread and have a New York style no hole bar fight . I notice several of the commentaries made by some posters...have absolutely no intellectual value, or wisdom. it's like the same old son rehash over and over again.
Written by: Cruz666, 15 Feb 2009 1:57 PM
From: United States
While honoring February as "Black History Month", it's important for the world to know two things:
1- Haitians saved the U.S. Revolution in Savannah, Georgia in September 1779.
2- A monument was recently erected in Savannah, Georgia to Honor Haiti.
Source/Proof:
http://www.haitianhistory.org/photogallery.php?aid=15"The Free & Rational Mind"
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 2:47 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: letroudeballeGeneroso, 15 Feb 2009 2:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Cruz666 you are a liar! It was France who sent Saint Domingue troops (freedom guaranty after services) to Savannah to fight the British and THEY LOST THAT BATTLE AT SAVANNAH! CORNWALLIS KICKED THEIR REAR END! There was no concept of "Haiti" in 1779.
"
Greenwave why have you change your name ? again this is a very poorly attempted interpretation of facts you are part of the lunatic fringe that obviously believe aids not exist, imbecile like you never learn, how many books have you read on the subject ? pimp on this ..
"
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=110-h20070521-43Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 2:49 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Although the Constitution did not specifically empower the Federal Government to acquire new territory by treaty, Jefferson concluded that the practical benefits to the Nation far outweighed the possible violation of the Constitution. The Senate concurred with this decision and voted ratification October 20, 1803, this all precipitated by the revolution of freed slaves on the island of Haiti.
The Spanish, who had never given up a physical possession of Louisiana to the French, did so in a ceremony at New Orleans on November 30, 1803. And in a second ceremony December 20, 1803, the French turned Louisiana over to the United States.
I would like to also honor those brave Haitians who fought for American independence at the siege of Savannah, Georgia, in 1779: The Chasseurs-Volontaires de Saint-Domingue, a regiment of soldiers who formed one-tenth of the allied army before Savannah in the fall of 1779. This unit was comprised of over 500 free men of color from the island of Haiti an
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 3:04 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Greenwave shut up and learn something instead of regurgitating your same cut n paste of old ideological doctrine that will not stand on his own merit, please try Rubi or AnthonyC. anyone with a basic reading and access to google should be able dissect your assertion to be nothing more than hot air and cattle manure.
Written by: etiennc, 15 Feb 2009 3:56 PM
From: United States
If you despise each other so much why continue posting nasty comments.
the purpose of this forum is to share , to debate, to discuss informations conducive to a better understand of both nations and what could be done for them to live in harmony.
Hatemongers , ignorant people don t communicate , they don t post comments,they kill each other
Why can t you guys arm yourselves , train yourselves, learn how to handle a gun, a machete,and wait for the proper signal and start butchering and strangling each other.
Oh I see what what happens,you understand that there are not too mamy ignorant poeple like you in Haiti and in the Dominican Republic.
Oh you understand that most Haitians and most Domininacns are decent human beings and do not share your subhuman primate reflexes.
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cunical and absurd enterprise.
All you can do is to stick your fingers in yiour butt and type your sticking and igmnorant copmme4nts
Written by: etiennc, 15 Feb 2009 3:56 PM
From: United States
If you despise each other so much why continue posting nasty comments.
the purpose of this forum is to share , to debate, to discuss informations conducive to a better understand of both nations and what could be done for them to live in harmony.
Hatemongers , ignorant people don t communicate , they don t post comments,they kill each other
Why can t you guys arm yourselves , train yourselves, learn how to handle a gun, a machete,and wait for the proper signal and start butchering and strangling each other.
Oh I see what what happens,you understand that there are not too mamy ignorant poeple like you in Haiti and in the Dominican Republic.
Oh you understand that most Haitians and most Domininacns are decent human beings and do not share your subhuman primate reflexes.
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cunical and absurd enterprise.
All you can do is to stick your fingers in yiour butt and type your sticking and igmnorant copmme4nts
Written by: etiennc, 15 Feb 2009 4:07 PM
From: United States
Note errors last two sentences
Read instead :
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cynican and absurd entreprise.
All you can do for now is nurse your hate for each other,stick your fingers in your butts and type you sticking and ignorant comments.
I have never seen a buch of people so full of hate one for another, so weak, so erratic.
Thanks God it is only a few of you.
Written by: etiennc, 15 Feb 2009 4:07 PM
From: United States
Note errors last two sentences
Read instead :
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cynican and absurd entreprise.
All you can do for now is nurse your hate for each other,stick your fingers in your butts and type you sticking and ignorant comments.
I have never seen a buch of people so full of hate one for another, so weak, so erratic.
Thanks God it is only a few of you.
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 4:28 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Cruz666 you are a liar! It was France who sent Saint Domingue troops (freedom guaranty after services) to Savannah to fight the British and THEY LOST THAT BATTLE AT SAVANNAH! CORNWALLIS KICKED THEIR REAR END!
"
You can lost a battle but no the war, your problem my Dear GreenF...t your feeble mind is not able to understand between strategy and tactic.
after the fall of savannah the The British has now entered the South to look for loyalist support. Many believe that this was the biggest mistake that Cornwallis had made as a General.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dr. Dread,
You are really the voice of reason on this subject. Very well-articulated commentary and right on target. Postings evolved into "three-ring circus", with many clowns clawing one another for the spotlight, with clearly nothing edifying or reasonable to contribute. Some of these contributors, in my humble opinion, are so ignorant and bigoted that they inflict more damage on Dominican reputation than drug trade and institutionalized corruption.
From: United States
thank you again for your kind words, Glomar. it is sad that a topic such as this, with such benign overtones, should germinate the degree of ferocity and anger it did. to people like vacanos, and gizmo; this is not a compulsory event. it is not like taxation, wherein you participate whether you like it or not. your minds, or what passes for minds, are better formatted for standing on street corners and howling lewd remarks at female passersby.(or males, depending upon your proclivities). therefore, leave the appreciation of black achievements and struggle to those who can appreciate them, and go back to something better suited to your intellects, such as choosing fantasy football teams.
Written by: etiennc, 15 Feb 2009 8:53 PM
From: United States
Amen Glomaexplorer ! you have aid it all
This forum was designed to allow Dominicans to reflect ,share opinions on the issues facing the Dominican Republic such as crime,drugs, domestic violence,corruption,and Haitian illegal migration.
What we have witnessed lately some hatemongers who despise each other have monopolized the site to trade insults.
I have met here posters with whom i have disagreements without being disagreable.
I would welcome their invitation to stroll down the Malecon and enjoy a Presidente or meet at a restaurant to share a sancocho.
We disagree but we are civil toward each other
I wish those who hate each other so much would have used a different forum where civilized posters are absent.
It may sound like a joke,lately the unusual names of some posters had triggered a bowel movement in me, see how disgusting they have became.
And the worst part .these idiots can not in any way shape or form influence the political future of Haiti nor the DR
From: United States
furthermore, vacanos and gizmo, did it ever dawn upon your limited perception that the Dominican Day Parade in New York causes more inconvenience to black people in that city, in terms of street closings and police overtime payments ,than some symbolic private event does to the DR? OR ARE YOU JUST THAT UNGRATEFUL?what would your response be if black people in the city petitioned the Mayors office to cancel the Dominican Day Parade , on the grounds that dominican culture and history are issues which are irrelevant to America?
From: United States
Glomar, regarding the damage that cretins do to the Dominican image...you are so right. when people in Belgium read that drugs were found in some barrio in the country, or that some police officer was arrested for bribery, the response is ...so what. happens in Russia, and mexico, and australia, and belgium..and everywhere. but when they read some of the folly on this board, then they conclude that we are a country of dimwits, because they have never seen such stupidity emanating from a forum in any other country.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Letro, you sound as if you wanted to british to win... Sorry I've been absent from the discussion, the weekend was TOO nice to spend arguing w/ people who see the world in EXTREMES. It's difficult to engage people who refuse to consider, not to accept, but just consider that things that they believe may have happened differently or the accounts that they in absolute terms may be the biased creation of people who benefited and continue to benefit from a certain point of view. I just heard a line in a movie which I think sums my point: "The last person standing determines history." Well, I thought about this idea for a moment, and it brings to mind all the hate and oppression that is justified on biased history. Maybe the last person standing wanted to exaggerate her good traits, playdown her her bad traits, and do the reverse for the "Other."
We shouldn't forget history, but we should not take it as an absolute truth, at least not one book or one school of thought. If anything..
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 10:12 PM
From: United States
dread
You just love to be confrontational. I know you can’t help it. Now you took the fight to NYC. As you know black American in NYC doesn’t give a thing about the Dominican parade as long they got their free project housing and welfare. Dominican parade will not take their stuff away. Now if it was a problem to the Jewish people then we got a problem with the parade but then again the mayor can't alienate the Dominican vote that is why he is the first one to march. Dreads please get it thru your head we Dominican are not one race as Haiti but we are many together. It doesn’t matter if a person is black white yellow brown because we believe only in our culture and our way of life. Get it we can’t fight the European because we are their descendant in a cultural, moral way. Para tu loquera ya.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
if anything, we should read contending versions of history, to help us understand the other side of the story. For example, the cuban missile crisis is portayed one way in the U.S. history books, and a completely different way by cubans and the russians - and some progressive american scholars as well. The point is, if you only read one side of the story, you would only know part of the story.
History is not unbiased b/c people who write it are part of the conflict or the people who determine what is legitimate history (aka - the government) may only allow certain points to find their way into the textbooks that shape our minds.
Regardless of our understanding of history, It should not be used to legitimize hate and oppression. we should all struggle to build a society based on egalitarian principles, human rights, justice, and true democracy. Hate is used by those who benefit from the status quo to prevent dialogue and change...
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Vacanos, you should your bigoted stripes at every turn. We are all a nice big mixed, but we are hardly one culture or one people. That "myth" is perpetuated to hide the systemic inequalities that exist and are ingrained in our society.
I always point to places like UNIBE, which is one of our shining example of higher education, but how many students from poor barriors do you see there? or how many students of color do you see there? I can attest from experience (since I've taught there) VERY VERY few.
To take it to a potentially more controversial plane, what we need is to push for dialogue in order to identify these systemic factors that provide an advantage to a small percentage of the population, while leaving the rest in a state of economic and political precariousness. Not that the "system" is to be blame for everything, but it is a significant factor in preventing people from realizing economic success in the DR.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
And what does that have to do w/ the price of tea in china? I commend your knowledge of historical trivia. But alas, lets not use history to perpetuate hate and discrimination. If anything, we should learn from our previous mistakes to avoid recreating the cycle of hate that produced many of the atrocities in the past.
Keep the dialogue... it's very good. Just keep it civil.
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 10:28 PM
From: United States
baldoria
please proffesor correct me in what aspect was i wrong?
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Dr. Dread,
Thanks. That was precisely the point I wished to get across.
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 10:29 PM
From: United States
letroudeballegeneroso
exaclty
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
The fatherland above justice, human rights, equality, and democracy. In the name of the fatherland we will kill, maim, and keep the vast percentage of our people in poverty and misery. In the name of the fatherland we will ensure that only the Corripios and Vincinis can live in Casa De Campo, and own 93% of the land. In the name of the fatherland, we don't care if our language is racist, if women, non-whites, non-Christians, the elderly, and the disabled are discriminated against.
Lets not hide all these social ills under the rug, in the name of the fatherland. Plus it's in the Name of La Patria! The Fatherland, sounds too german or russian :-/ (Not that there's anything wrong w/ that).
cheers,
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Vacanos here's what sounds a bit racist/G.O.P.-ish:
"As you know black American in NYC doesn’t give a thing about the Dominican parade as long they got their free project housing and welfare."
Actually, a lot of people think that about Dominicans and other migrants. And in some cases they are right. But painting in broad strokes like this, specially vis-a-vis a historically marginalized population does sound bigoted, and hides the fact that there are Tens MILLIONS - the vast mayority - of African Americans, Migrants, and working class people who are out there working, paying their taxes, following the rules... So when you say things like what you say, it propagates negative stereotypes.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Baldoria,
Some of what you state makes sense to me.
I would like to extend those views to those presently attacking Josean. He has a different, provocative point of view on various subjects that some seem to vehemently resent. He articulates it well and generally provides supportive information. Look, you may disagree with him, but he is excellent at eliciting further discussions and arguments- which is part of primary reason why most of us enjoy this forum.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
So let me get this straight, we need to keep people poor so they do the dirty work??? Um, interesting. I say, strive to provide a living-wage to EVERY employee, high quality public services (schools, medical care, child-care, parks, roads, etc.). It's not about establishing a perfectly economic egalitarian society, it's about having a society where the few oligarchs control the 93% of the land, while generation after generation of poor people are forced to live in extreme poverty.
I propose that arguments about a "single" identity & culture work to mask the systemic inequalities, instead of providing the genuine opportunities for people to improve their Socio-Econmic Status (SES).
I know people who are poor, and the lack of opportunities and public services will cause their children to be poor, and their grand children to be poor as well. W/o a herculean effort to address these systemic issues, these vicious cycles will NOT be broken... And yes, we may need to provide...
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
special incentives for historically marginalized groups - women, non-whites, disabled, non-Christians, etc.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Darn, just when you thought logical convergence was attained, the pot got vigorously stirred once more. Even parallel lines converge at infinity......perhaps we will have to go at least that far on this subject. Let's hope that long before that time all points would have been exposed and defended and the differences between righteousness and wickedness and utter absurdity clearly established. Then, we could move on.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Letro- again, what does anything of what you say have to do w/ the price of tea in china? The Patria is more than the Constitution. Constitutions are documents which can be manipulated to justify injustice - not saying that our constitution does this, but don't elevate constitutions to a "sublime" state. I can point you to several constitutions that go against principles of human rights. And actually, in our constitution, there are clauses that support the imperfect government we have now - but that's another issue, which I rather get into another time.
Only through Introspection and social-critiques can we analyze and begin to understand some of the factors that produce the social ills we are plagued w/. But many oppose such efforts as revolutionary or anti-patriotic. But I propose, that it is our civic-obligation to question why is there such extreme inequlaity and poverty; why do we lack quality public services; why is there so much corruption... It is our right and duty!
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 11:08 PM
From: United States
"As you know black American in NYC doesn’t give a thing about the Dominican parade as long they got their free project housing and welfare."
are you saying that statement is wrong on majority of black american in new york. you want me to be political correct?
balsosia did you know 75% of black women are single parent and that even though black american make about 12% of the population they make allmost 40% of people incarcerated. is that racist? please tell me. It is sad but true. 7% of african american minor have a parent in jail. As you see those stat you will know that they will take more of the city resource in wellfare and housing and that is a fact. If you want me to leave it under the table as the pseudo black activist like sharpton and jackson instead of helping their community by confronting the problem they are the first one avoid it.
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 11:17 PM
From: United States
baldosia
when i was searching for a house 6 year ago i had two choice either buy a brand new house in a african american majority neighborhood or buying a 100 year old beat up house in a white spanish neighborhood for the same amount of money. I chose the beat up house. i went for the overprice beat up house. will that make me racist? it is easy for you to finger point when you don't know the fact.
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 11:21 PM
From: United States
letroudeballegeneroso
excellent post thankyou por darle catedra a baldosia
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Vacano, if you need a lesson in how biased the American legal system is against minorities, just google the topic, I can't waste my time go over such BASIC issues that even the courts have recognized.
Anyhow, you're actually helping prove my point quite nicely. If non-whites are constantly be portrayed in such negative terms, what do you expect the psyche of young children to incorporate if not a biased/racist view? do you not see that? Let me point you to one of our renown living philosopher, Charles Taylor. He, like many others, posits that identity is formed in a dialogue. When that dialogue is negative, a negative identity emerges. And that's part of the systemic factors that discriminate against non-whites!!! Let me know if you're interested in such literature, I can send you over a syllabus w/ plenty of text on the topic.
As for your spelling, vacano, you really need to look at the key-board when you type my screen name. It's B A L D O R I A!
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Last post of the day - I have to go read - Letro, I just want to understand you correctly, so if the constitution was violating human rights, it's OK b/c the constitution is above human rights, am I getting you? um... I can't even comment on such, I can't find a civil word for "stupidity," so I just won't say anything...
As for the poor and fertility rates - again, going off on a tangent. Have you considered the posibility that better health-services, education, and job opportunities for women will lead to lower birth rates? Briefly, women who work have less children; more educated women have less children; women w/ access to free contraceptives have LESS CHILDREN!!!
Letro, you're focusing on the consequences of poverty, not the ROOT CAUSES!!! Dig deeper, and ask WHY IS THIS THE CASE... Introspection & analysis that go behind the causes - in this case high fertility - will lead to root causes - in this case lack of public services.
Ok, I may check in later, but I'm out for no
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 11:45 PM
From: United States
letrodeballegeneroso
i apreciated that.
you hit it right in the nail
"you tell the poor to stop having 6 children per woman, stop doing drugs/alcohol/smoking, and committing violence when thing don't go their way! Come down from you heaven brother!
it is like when you see mexican or african people with 7 kids and another on the way. i say to myself i got two kids, got a business my mortgage my wife working fulltime and sometime struggle. new york is very expensive. yet i see these people not even documented with seven kids living in bateyes (yes batelles 10 people in one bedroom). thank god these kids can apply for wellfare since they are american. for these kids there is no way out but to go into drugs prostitution violence. that is the way it is. yes letro that is the main reason la existencias de los pobres.
Written by: antonioj, 15 Feb 2009 11:47 PM
From: Canada, home safe
letroudeballeGeneroso you are indeed greenwave, you are back again at your same old game of plagiarizing bit and pieces of phrases and syllable with a loose understanding of their meaning simply to impress the readers it's shameful that will choose to go such extreme, at least while taking the low road ensure the bonafide authors is credited all it takes a simple google search .
Written by: vacanos, 15 Feb 2009 11:53 PM
From: United States
"Vacano, if you need a lesson in how biased the American legal system is against minorities, just google the topic, I can't waste my time go over such BASIC issues that even the courts have recognized"
baldosia
please don't go there you look like an educated person. there is more spanish people than african american people in the usa yet spanish account for less than half crimes of african american. the problem go deeper they feel entitle. respected african american had been trying to deal with the issue like bill cosby and had been discredited by the so called "black activist".
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
I couldn't resist your last post, letro... THERE IS NO ONE "DOMINICAN VIEW." Read our own social philosophers. I encourage you to google Ramonina Brea @ the PUCAMAYMA. Just read what she has to say about these issues we're discussing. Like Dr. Brea, there are thousands if not tens of thousands of social scientists who hold these same views in the DR. These are not foreign ideas, these are views of people who dig a little deeper and refuse to accept the status quo as natural.
BTW, our republic and constitution are based on principles laid out by Locke, Mill, Rousseau, among others- most were foreigners. So let me get this straight, if a foreign social scientist finds a better way of analyzing social problems, you would reject him b/c his not Dominican; is that what you're saying? Since when do we have a monopoly on good ideas? And since when is the DR the social paradise that we can't consider some social introspection?
Letro, take a step back and have a broader view of li
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 12:03 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: letroudeballeGeneroso, 15 Feb 2009 11:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
There are posters here that want to implant foreign models to our model that have been molded around our traditions and history! Please keep your foreign values and culture at your doors when you come to DR! Stop using somebody else's binocular when looking at Dominican problems (Please use our Dominican binoculars that are shaped and Dominican realities"
Greenwave you are being untruth to the forum by hiding your identity and second your location you are living in the united states, with respect to your quotation, I congradulate you-- that finally you were able to compose your argument WITHOUT infringement , please be more specific, do you have a name, what model are they trying to implant in DR ?, how does it goes again the mainstream wish of the population?, I have tried hard to follow your train of thought however you are all over the place and not coherent. cont1
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 12:04 AM
From: Canada, home safe
cnt 2 I am not a great believer on conspiration theory that you appear to be hinted at.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Letro - your univariable view of social issues is, I can't seem to find a better way of putting it, simple minded. And, as far as I know it, I've never said the DR's conception of Human Rights is different from Int'l terms, you've been the one who've said that you would support the DR constitution EVEN IF IT WENT AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS. Luckily, the vast majority of people are a bit more independent then you and would stand up against tyrants who violate human rights.
Vacalao, you don't make any sense. You make spurrious claims and yell "Aha!" and leave the rest scratching our heads? Your comments are helping prove what I've been saying from the get-go, that warranted or not, the predominating views of historically-marginalized people tend to be negative, and that this negative views has deleterious implications on the future prospects of said people, and thus we need to consider ways of addressing these detrimental systemic factors that sustain inequality in our society!
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Letro - you're more like anachronistic :-) just kidding... have a laugh old boy.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 12:23 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: letroudeballeGeneroso, 16 Feb 2009 12:08 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio, I think I am coherent, -- monochromatic, I have no phase lag, and my amplitude is real-(wave language)!
"
Well beauty is on the eye of the beholder, I stand corrected, you just did it again-- you may want to become a rap artist by throwing incoherent word in and there loosely meaningfull as long they rhyme just to appear intelligent. Thanks but no thank you leave this for your charlatans ie francCarlos, vacanos, Gizomo, arkatype.
I have debated you before.. and you know who is going to have the last word, you are my natural enemy, I honestly do not like you
.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 12:25 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Written by: letroudeballeGeneroso, 16 Feb 2009 12:19 AM
From: Dominican Republic
"Baldoria I think you meant "better way of mitigating social problems" instead of "analyzing" since solutions and implementations are key to DR! No more philosophy (a day dreaming act). All solutions must include and considered (respect) Dominican history, culture, and traditions! And that includes foreign solutions! As long is compatible with Dominican values, It is up to the people of DR to accept a foreign solution!
Read Jared Dimanod "Collapse" Penguing Books 2006, page 329-357 or Jeffrey D. Sachs, "The End of Poverty" Penguin books, 2005.
"
It's a good, never too late to start giving credit where it's due. cheers good night !!
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 12:30 AM
From: United States
baldosia
are you a commie?
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Vacalao, are you joking? do you know what communism is? since when does social justice = communism? IS that what you really think? Social justice is the foundation of democratic liberal tradition. So I guess people who oppose social justice are commies, which means you're a commie... Just kidding, but your comment is at that level, do you see that?
Letro, haven't you notice that social justice is what we (DOMINICANS) are longing for? if anything, your rubish about tradition and keeping people enslaved in poverty and inequality is the biggest betrayal to the liberal principles of our Patria! Furthermore, wanting to change the constitution is not a radical idea, look we're even changing RIGHT now! and we changed it in 2002, and 1994, and several times before then. You see, change is nothing new, and unpatriotic ideas like yours in vilifying critiquing the status quo is censorship... are you a commie? or worse, a republican?
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 1:07 AM
From: United States
baldosia
it was a simple question no reason for you to be on the defensive or to give an explanation as to why you are a commie. the reason i asked was to see who im argue with since you are sounding like a true lenilista with your lefty analisy on the poor.
amigo el sistema capitalista con una sociedad abierta es el mejor sistema del mundo en trato con los pobres. deja de buscarle pata al rabo with your social justice si al pobre en este sistema es porque esta gente no tienen ambition o le falta motivacion para buscar educacion.
Written by: Cruz666, 16 Feb 2009 1:08 AM
From: United States
Ladies & Gentlemen, It's official !
There is a consensus to investigate Bush for kidnapping the democratically and constitutionally elected president of Haiti Jean-Bertrand Aristide, for going to war with Iraq based on lies and for other matters as well. The Haitian-American Lobby Group Has successfully persuaded American Lawmakers in the Democratic Party, particularly the Black Caucus. With Haitian-American Patrick Gaspard as White House Political Director, things are moving smoothly.
President Obama is open to the idea. Senator Patrick Healy, Congresswoman Barbara Lee and other lawmakers agree to launch the investigation ASAP.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Video Proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaTcSLF4hERead also the Bill that was introduced in Congress:
http://www.haitiaction.net/News/HA/2_5_9/2_5_9.htmlWritten by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 1:23 AM
From: United States
cruz
why do you keep posting about haiti in a dominican forum. by the way if it is true bush kidnapped the rat of aristide that was the best thing bush did in foreign affairin 8 year.
Written by: Cruz666, 16 Feb 2009 1:42 AM
From: United States
vacanos,
Written by: Cruz666, 16 Feb 2009 1:42 AM
From: United States
vacanos,
The topic is "Black History Month" and Haiti represents Blacks worldwide.
"The Free & Rational mind"
Written by: Cruz666, 16 Feb 2009 1:42 AM
From: United States
vac
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Vacalao, I think you need a little bit more reading to understand what a Leninist approach to explaining poverty is. That's if you think anything I've said even resemble a leninist/marxist point. Far from it. My approach is more from the critical theory school, which rejects accepting the status quo as "natural" and pushes for a thick understanding of social phenomena. This approach is used by development agencies to understand the background of many development issues. So no, it's not leninist.
Moreover, reducing extreme inequality and poverty and providing quality public service is what the World Bank, USAID, IMF, UNDP and many of the other international organizations call for. So, again, unless you consider these organizations marxists, I think you've missed what marxism truly is.
It's neither here nor there. Many people like to label progressive liberal thought as "commie" w/o really konwing what their talking about or that these are the foundations of democracy.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
these issues continue to drive a wedge between Latinos and blacks
Written by: Gizmo , 16 Feb 2009 10:19 AM
From: United States
They saved Aristide from being murdered and you are criticizing the U.S. goverment! What you think would of happpened? Some people love living in denial.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 10:58 AM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: gouletcolonial, 16 Feb 2009 6:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Colonial Zone Isabela la Catolica [formerly] Calle Comercio
US racial acceptance of latinos in USA from todays NYT....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/us/16hispanic.html?th&emc=th"
Thanks for the posting GC this is eye opening, it's unfortunate I am against all sort of injustices anywhere, let's hope some our delusional posters will take notice, they know whom they are.
Written by: Cruz666, 16 Feb 2009 12:22 PM
From: United States
gouletcolonial,
I read the New York Times article "Day Laborers Are Easy Prey in New Orleans". I am saddened by the plights of the Hispanic immigrants in New Orleans and appalled at the way Black Americans treat them. As an activist, I'll make sure I add my input and contribute my know-how to alleviate the suffering of these immigrants.
I am even more profoundly touched because I am Haitian-American and I know how Haitian immigrants are mistreated in the Dominican Republic.
These despicable criminal acts should be severely punished and the police force there should be investigated for allowing these rampages to go on.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Written by: USADR, 16 Feb 2009 12:42 PM
From: United States
Written by: Manhattanite, 13 Feb 2009 12:37 PM
Let's quit holding our noses in the air about the evil Northerner as though our culture's racism is leaps and bounds above theirs.
USADR responds:
I would argue that it's a natural reaction by Dominicans to 'hold their noses in the air' when they confront the arrogance and ignorance (of our culture) by Americans exporting their AfroSaxon racialist imperialism. . There is no one arguing that DR is a perfect society immune to discrimination, this is unreasonable because there is no such thing. But let's not even dare compare the cultural racism in the USA to DR because it's simply no comparison. The fact that we had black presidents in a time when slavery still extisted and the US slavery had only recently been abolished should speak volumes.
Written by: USADR, 16 Feb 2009 12:51 PM
From: United States
Written by: Manhattanite, 13 Feb 2009 12:37 PM
At the end of the day the US society has produced the most influential leaders of the African Diaspora, and from the US have emerged black cultures that are mimicked the world over from Europe to Asia to Africa itself.
USADR responds:
Agreed, the US has produced the most influential leaders be they white or black. American culture is mimicked period, they are the worlds superpower. There is no monolithic 'black' culture or people, SubSaharan Africans view any 'black' American culture as American. African-American, but American nevertheless. I don't know where you're going with this.
Written by: USADR, 16 Feb 2009 1:11 PM
From: United States
Written by: Manhattanite, 13 Feb 2009 12:42 PM
Bizarre racial schemes are all bizarre, whether it is ODR or colorism they are still both bizarre systems of supremacy. Sure the US had Jim Crow but the Spaniards also had their Codigo Negro Carolino.
USADR responds:
1. USA had ODR/Hypodescent, society had a bi-polar view of 'race', the ver word mulatto was taken off the census. In the USA a person who could pass as white in Europe would be socially black. Race was destiny, there was no escaping the institutionalized racism. Ku Klux Klan, lynichings of blacks, etc.
2. DR's society developed in a color spectrum, class>race.
There is simply no comparison.
Written by: USADR, 16 Feb 2009 1:21 PM
From: United States
Written by: adaniels, 13 Feb 2009 12:50 PM
From: United States
Anyone that thinks black american hate themselves, is suffering from a very grave misconception. We just say, say it loud we are black and we are proud!
^
USADR responds:
This is exactly the type of arrogance I'm speaking about. Where do I begin?
1. Brown paper bag test.
2. The historical saying " white is right, light allright, black stay back"
3. A club in Detroit recently got in trouble for having 'light skinned only nights'
4. The overrepresantation of lighter skinned AA's and non-AA/non-white women in black fashion magazines, music videos, models, etc. Just look at BET's female hosts, one was a very light skinned AA woman, then a Dominican, then a Honduran. Latinas are all over the place in black magazines, videos, etc.
5. Studies correlating socieconomic class with colorism in AA society.
From: United States
USADR while you make accurate statements about hypo-descent and colorism, & the emphasis on class in DR, the statement that there is no comparison I can't agree with as you can line up both structures and find similarities in outcomes among the differences. Also as I pointed out the story of colorism extends beyond DR's particular history and the outcomes have not all been as harmonious as in DR.
Fine you can hold your nose in the air. My purpose throughout the above was as always to argue against demonization of black American discourse as though it offers NO perspective or insights of value to the Dominican experience, or as though the absence of a similarly rigid system expiates Dominicans from needing to consider history through racial lens as one part of our story.
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 1:45 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I think that the difference in the cases lies in the fact that colorism can be easily disguised because of its flexible nature, Mannie, cuz' unlike the ODR, colorism doesn't prevent a person from moving among the social classes. So it's a given that this will make it all the harder to abolish or at least to get ameliorated. On the ODR, the social categories are so absolute that it almost have taken the form of a religion among american society, in the sense that invisible blackness, being a thing that is both difficult to prove or disprove, had become some sort of a dogma.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 1:51 PM
From: United States
etienc
if the way to defend the stat i gave you is for you to keep insulting me keep it up is not bothering me.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 1:53 PM
From: United States
gizmo
had the usa not intervened with aristide and the salvage would had slaughter him all the haiti would had suit the usa for not doing nothing. you cant pleased these people. we are feeding them and they keep attacking us.
Written by: USADR, 16 Feb 2009 2:19 PM
From: United States
Manhattanite,
I am a US raised Dominican (came here when I was 2 years old). I went to school with, dated and grew up around African Americans, I have no problems with African Americans and respect their history and what they went thru. My pet peeve is when I come across forums where some posters try to hypocritically demonize DR using the race card. They display no real understanding of it's history or culture. For some reason, DR is singled out as having sometype of grave 'racial problem' while they portray themselves as sometype of idealized groups. In real life I've never heard or seen any of the things I read on various forums,
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 2:54 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 1:53 PM
From: United States
gizmo
had the usa not intervened with aristide and the salvage would had slaughter him all the haiti would had suit the usa for not doing nothing. you cant pleased these people. we are feeding them and they keep attacking us.
"
Vacanos what are you feeding them dirt cookies ? can you for once say something that make some sense. por dios.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Not only can we learn from the civil-rights struggles of african-american, but also of women, disable, and the LBGT community. Oppression may go under different names and affect different groups, but it produces the same inequality and injustice in the US, the DR, and elsewhere. We can read post-colonial theory of India, and use those principles to help understand the situation in the DR. Not that the situations are exactly the same, but the mechanisms of oppression are similar. It's about a conceptual framework/lens that can help us identify oppressive relations.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 3:19 PM
From: United States
the people beating and robbing these poor undocumented in new orleans are "los morenos" describeby the mexican in the NYT or african american in english. no surprise here they are the most undesirable and then when they get arrested they play the race card. i like my fellow dominican got our first glimpse of these people in high school in new york when they used to jump on us in group in the 80 and early 90 as we were first generation dominican spoke no english easy target for them at the time. we then learned their game and holded our ground everytime and defended other spanish targeting by them.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 3:19 PM
From: United States
the people beating and robbing these poor undocumented in new orleans are "los morenos" describeby the mexican in the NYT or african american in english. no surprise here they are the most undesirable and then when they get arrested they play the race card. i like my fellow dominican got our first glimpse of these people in high school when they used to jump on us in group in the 80 and early 90 as we were first generation dominican spoke no english easy target for them at the time. we then learned their game and holded our ground everytime and defended other spanish targeting by them.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 3:36 PM
From: United States
antonioj
yes we gives them free housing, medical (we now learning haitian women going to dr to use their hospital to give birth, actually the haitian are the only people basically using public hospital since most dominican now using private clinic) jobs so they can take food back to their country. you are too proud now you can't admit what dr doing for the haitian.
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 3:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
vacanos said: "actually the haitian are the only people basically using public hospital since most dominican now using private clinic)"
Are you sure about this? Cuz' last time I saw, the majority of people going and staying at the Dario Contreras and the Plaza de la Salud (to mention two public hospitals with the most demand) looked very dominican to me.
Written by: Gizmo , 16 Feb 2009 3:51 PM
From: United States
Vacanos the problem in Haiti is so severe no matter what kind of action the U.S. takes the Haitians will see it as a violation of there sovereignty. If Aristide would of remained in Haiti (2004), i guarantee you rival political gangs would of assassinated him. They pulled him out, everybody from the Black Caucus starts bitching that they kidnapped him, did the U.S. have another choice no! you damned if you do you damned if you don't do. Haiti has a long record of coup d'etats, probably the single country with the most or close to the most coup's across the globe. Although i really don't care for Aristide, i've heard some things that he has a certain disdain towards our national heroes too bad. But anyways in short a country with an unstable political life is doomed to fail.
From: United States
USADR don't worry I've never had cause to lump you in with the demonizers. I understand from another thread you and Laut have come acrss the negative side of this discussion often enough to be defensive. The fact that I reply to you guys should indicate I hold your input in some esteem, as I try my best not to engage the provocateurs. It was simply obvious where this thread would head so I wanted to make sure that as the typical gallery of 'combatants' squared off over Haiti/blackness we had some words of respect for a history that surely has lessons for and effects on DR. It is sad that the intent of the embassy in sharing the historical programming inevitably sinks into the usual DT.com mire!
From: United States
Baldoria, you and Manhattanite are far better men than I. your abilities to keep a straight face, remain polite, and magisterial, in the face of such neanderthal idiocy, is more than i can comprehend. the fact that a simple topic like this evokes almost 400 responses should indicate that something is very wrong, somewhere. Dominicans must ask themselves if they would have been this incensed if the German Embassy decided to put on an exposition to celebrate the culture and history of Germany. i think not. as a matter of fact, i am willing to bet that Swedes would not bat an eyelid if this happened in Stockholm..they would welcome it, probably. the fact that so many Dominicans in this forum are in such a neckbreaking hurry to distance themselves from all things African is mind boggling. like it or not, most of you probably have African blood in your veins. and gentlemen, be careful when you toss around stereotypes about black americans. many people of good sense and conscience
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 4:14 PM
From: United States
lauratano
i said most dominican using private clinic and i stand by that statement.
From: United States
have to come to the defense of Dominicans when the stereotypes start up in New York. so, vacanos, and gizmo, be careful when you start up with these silly remarks about welfare and laziness, and free housing. i live part time in new york, so i know what i see, and hear.
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 4:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Will you show statistical proofs availing your points, vacanos? Cuz' that's the only way that I'd be able to give some credence to your outlandish statement, and even then I'd have to examine those very carefully, cuz' if you haven't realized it yet, private clinics are way too EXPENSIVE on this country, and the fact that the majority of dominicans lack the funds to afford those. Are you insane to believe that the DR have some medicaid program in place as the US? cuz' if you believe so, then go check your head, pal, cuz' you'd really need someone to make you open your eyes to the inequalities plaguing the DR nowadays, being as it is the third most unequal society on the hemisphere, after Brazil and Haiti.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 4:24 PM
From: United States
gizmo
excellent post. thankyou.
nobody was more happy than aristide to leave the country knowingly his day were counted inside haiti but now he is safe to show the "poor" people that he is a macho man going against the goliah in the USA, he will be perceived as a martyr. what a poor ingrate. my only hope when the UN leave haiti and allow them to govern by themselve and when another coup de tah lets all hope the usa don't lift a finger lets see who are they going to blame this time. i bet the black caucus will be the first one to open an investigation why the usa waited so much to get involved.
From: United States
vacanos, and Gizmo, you two mongoloids belong in the forum TOPIX, where morons of all stripes populate the academic ecosystem. you can make your silly references to their dependence on welfare, and they can say nonsense like this.....
Dominicans can't stand BLACKNESS... they loathe black african dna. DESPISE it. I don't know any black Americans that have or will have anything to do with Dominicans, they're seriously poisioned with self-hate. Look, when you have someone a shade and a half lighter than soot with tightly coiled hair always talkin' about how mixed to the max they are, yet, they look like Wesley Snipes with Jay Z's face and shyt.. you just gotta shake ya head and walk away. I have NEVER met an Dominican of obvious black african genetics that could stand him/herself , LOL.. I'm serious!
My brother's girlfriend is Haitian with BEAUTIFUL, very dark smooth skin. She's GORGEOUS and extremely smart. And very secure in her skin
so, gizmo, and vacanos, go there and play.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 4:33 PM
From: United States
dread
about time you show up with your racist comment. when i give stat im not talking about sterotype. when 75% of black women are single mother or baby mama that is not stereotype when black make 12% of the population and make up the majority in prison that is not sterotype. 7% of african american minor have parent in prison that is not sterotype. dread dominican people are the most sucessfull immigrant in new york. we got he most business and the most people sending to colleges and graduating from the police dept.
Written by: Gizmo , 16 Feb 2009 4:37 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks put a sock on it! You're such a stooge, we all have our own opinions.
From: United States
this is offered up by the demented child, gizmo
Dreadlocks sorry to burst you're bubble but i dont fall into the black category, so no! i don't need to give thanks to the black civil rghts leaders of the past. That work was done to help Black Americans like you, gain acceptance in this Anglo-White American dominated society. I was not even born when these circumstances were occuring
nobody asked you to give thanks to anybody. it is not a thanksgiving festival, but an historical exhibition. as a matter of fact, i am grateful that you and your idiot fellow travellers plan to stay away. until science proves that your degree of idiocy is not contagious, you should restrict you activities to ventures like spray painting grafitti in subways...heck, come here , and deface the metro. as to your reference to me as Black Americans like you, you have no idea of who, or what, I am. my paternal lineage is from the British Isles, complete with family Coat of Arms.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 4:40 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 3:36 PM
From: United States
antonioj
yes we gives them free housing, medical (we now learning haitian women going to dr to use their hospital to give birth, actually the haitian are the only people basically using public hospital since most dominican now using private clinic) jobs so they can take food back to their country. you are too proud now you can't admit what dr doing for the haitian.
"
You are correct vacano I do not denied that, and lo agradesco a los dominicanos I was referring to your specific comment.
Written by: Gizmo , 16 Feb 2009 4:44 PM
From: United States
Dreadlocks theirs more Dominican multi-millionaires than any other recent immigrant group in New York per capita. Most Supermarkets in New York are owned and operated by Dominican's. Ask the Blacks and West Indians in Brooklyn from whom they purchase there food from? Dominicanos Baby!!!!! I still haven't seen a broke Dominican Super Market owner.
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 4:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Dread I'm still recovering from the outlandish claim of one of them, saying that, in a country with a deficit in hospital beds such as this one, the majority of the population is using the more expensive services of the private sector. Can you believe it? maybe his xenophobia is such that he believes that everyone living on the barrios (Capotillo, Gualey, Mandinga, Los Mameyes, etc.) is of haitian extraction. Guess what, vacano? I challenge you to go to any of those barrios (many of whose people can't even afford the services of the public hospitals) and tell them in their faces that you consider them to be haitians. I assure you that they will make a most thorough job in rearranging your face.
Written by: Gizmo , 16 Feb 2009 4:48 PM
From: United States
In fact Dominicans own more Super Markets than any single ethnic group not only in the Northeast but also in the Mid-Atlantic region of the country. Watchout now we are now taking over the Southeast region.
From: United States
SO Gizmo, do not let the handle fool you.and, since you are in the mood to make accusatory statements to belittle one group of people, remember that the people to whom i trace my paternal roots similarly ridicule the ones to whom you attribute yours. The British consider Spain to be the laughing stock of Europe, and Spaniards to be a bunch of immature, lazy , retrograde bullfighters. do you see where i am going with this? do you see how silly it can all get?
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 4:53 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 4:33 PM
From: United States
".....
Obviously you guys can not read well, Dread was quoting from the the topix forum were some you belong. Now you are resorting playing the race card in top of the Deck.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
Dread is extremely proud of his British/Scottish roots his ancestors did not come over on a prison ship you know....born to the manor he was
From: United States
furthermore, you geniuses like gizmo and vacanos probably are a bunch of ghetto rats, yourselves. the fact that your opinion of black america is informed by notions of welfare fraud and laziness, indicates to me the social and residencial circles you inhabit. why do you not go to places like Atlanta and Washington DC, and see how black americans of pedigree really live? while you are there, you might apply for a job being their gardeners or , perhaps, if you qualify, a butler.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 4:58 PM
From: United States
gizmo
dominican got a monopoly in new york we own most auto repair, groceries, taxi company, supermarkets, restaurant, travel agency, hair/barber shop, bakery, ect.
dread is surprise to see how sucessfull dominican had been oversea it make him furious dominican refuse to work as slaves as haitian people working for food in dr.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 5:00 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Gizmo, Vacanos, letroudeballeGeneroso aka Greenwave, Araktype I wonder how do you folks know so much from experience about DR when you were born or grow up in the USA, can you perhaps enlight the forum.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:02 PM
From: United States
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:05 PM
From: United States
antonio
actually was born in santiago and raised until 13 until my father was displaced by haitian program work for food my father refused and emigrated to usa.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:13 PM
From: United States
"Dread is extremely proud of his British/Scottish roots his ancestors did not come over on a prison ship you know....born to the manor he was"
lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllhahahahahahahahahahahahlollllllllllllllllllllhahahahahaha
From: United States
vacanos and gizmo, you really need to get out of 178 and Amsterdam avenue. most auto repair shops? look , son, i have forgotten more about the auto repair business in new york than you will ever learn. that remark about owning most of the auto repair shops is so silly, i will have to hold my laughter in. tell me how many authorised insurance collision repair shops are owned by dominicans? 3 years ago, there were, maybe, 3 in the entire city. maybe. as to owning taxi companies, all those Town Cars are owned by the Eastern Europeans fron Van Dam street in Queens, and some turks from long island city. do not try me in this field, as i can write you books on tis subject. as to supermarkets, dominicans have supermarkets in manhattan and the bronx, but they are not exactly the major types like A and P. so, do not make yourself look silly witth this bragging rights nonsense. as to your claims about dominicans having the most multi millionairs among recent immigrants...son, stay away from
From: United States
barbershop rumours. the latest survey done on immigrant per capita income had colombians at the bottom, followed by dominicans. indians were at the top, followed by Jamaicans and Koreans. you need to read. you have a computer. use it. a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
From: United States
actually, GC, i do not need to use the portion my caucasian roots as a begging tool for membership into the white club.i am a person of mixed ancestry, and i acknowledge both sides. but i am not going to say that i am proud to be either. i do not go around with a banner on the hood of my car, proclaiming myself to have roots in Scotland. who cares? if I was from Spain..worse. i would deny it.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:27 PM
From: United States
dread
from brooklyn to the bronx try to go to as much autor repair the majority are dominican the same go with the taxi company you cant let your hatred consume you as to making idiotic statement.
yes i been to atlanta and seen with my own eyes black getho living the same as in new york housing project. and how the white treat them in the dirty south. the dominican community in atlanta is growing fast we are making stride there too.
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 5:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Vacanos,
I'll only leave you with the following numbers:
- Did you know that, for a dominican to live comfortably with his family, gringo style on Santo Domingo city, he/she needs to have a monthly income of about US$700?
- Did you know that the majority of the dominican population is earning monthly less than US$200?
Given the numbers above (and the fact that the abovementioned people lacks any type of medical insurance whatsoever), how the heck do you have the guts of telling me, someone that lives on the island 24/7 and 365 a year, that the majority of dominicans are using private clinics more than the public hospitals? ¿Pero es que te estas volviendo loco, mi hijo?
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 5:31 PM
From: United States
A friend of mine just tried my little experiment ; he just said : gizmovacanosenna and had a bowel movement.
gizmo and vacanos see what you did for us.
Who said that your posts in this forum are useless.
Sometimes we need to examine little brainless creatures and see what their purposes in life are
Just like earth worms recycle the nitrates fron fallen leaves and nuts and return them to the soil.,
They also dig small holes in then soil to facilitale the entry of oxygen to the trees roots by atmospheric pressure.
I have found a cure for my constipation
adios laxantes !
Viva Gizmovacanosenna
" Save the gizmovacanosenna"
" Save the gizmovacanosenna "
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:32 PM
From: United States
dread
we are so proud of our spanish heritage it is our culture. we spent alot of dough building a resting place for christopher colombus. we are who we are spanish descendant that is our values come from. i hope haitian people feel proud of their african tribu like we do of our spanish ancestor.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:33 PM
From: United States
dread
since you rarelly go to nyc. one advise dont go near project you might get shot. if you do make sure you are in a car dont walk thru project.
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
dread please dont tell me this is how you feel about your Hispanic friends who trace their heritage or part of it to Castile....the people of the Spanish Antilles are proud of their roots all of them
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:38 PM
From: United States
by laura "Did you know that the majority of the dominican population is earning monthly less than US$200?"
NOW WHERE IS THIS CLOWN COMING FROM. I HATE TO BREAK IT ON YOU BUDDY BUT DOMINICAN PER CAPITA MAKE $9,000US ACCORDING TO CIA FACTBOOK. A YEAR IMAGINE IF THERE WERE NO HAITIAN WORKING FOR FOOD HOW MUCH THAT FIGURE WILL GO UP.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....s/the-world-factbook/geos/dr.htmlALLWAYS WITH FACT BABY DISCREDIT HATER LIKE YOU
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 5:38 PM
From: United States
Vacanos and gizmo I have found a cure for you haitianphobia.
Obtain a stock of dried PEREJIL ,boil it for half an hour and dring a cup of this tea with honey.
Each night before you go to bed place a picture of the generalissimo with a long feather under you pillow and you will be able to feel confortable around Haitians.
It works but you need to beleive in me
Written by: , 16 Feb 2009 5:49 PM
From:
etienc
when haitian been ungreatfull of the people who are feeding them making outrageous statement about dr we have a right to defend our land and our integrity. if people here don't talk about haiti we won't talk about haiti but you guy are in love of making fight and allways have to put gas into the fire. you know this is a censitive issue and all of you haitian trying to get under our skin.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 5:49 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 5:32 PM
From: United States
dread
we are so proud of our spanish heritage it is our culture. we spent alot of dough building a resting place for christopher colombus. we are who we are spanish descendant that is our values come from. i hope haitian people feel proud of their african tribu like we do of our spanish ancestor.
"
Vacanos are you for real man, Lautaro how do you explain the behaviour and the irrational of your country man that grow up in the USA, where free thinking and creativity is encouraged.
eres mas terco que una mula
Written by: , 16 Feb 2009 5:49 PM
From:
etienc
when haitian been ungreatfull of the people who are feeding them making outrageous statement about dr we have a right to defend our land and our integrity. if people here don't talk about haiti we won't talk about haiti but you guy are in love of making fight and allways have to put gas into the fire. you know this is a censitive issue and all of you haitian trying to get under our skin.
From: United States
idiotic statements, Vacanos? really? name me one major dominican body shop in the East Bronx. i defy you. give me one major in Staten Island. as i said, this is not territory that you are qualified to argue with me.as a matter of fact, i was among a group of peolple who petitioned insurance companies to use dominican repair shops as certified facilities as late as 2007, with no success. they had very few frame straightening machines and the shops were not up to standard..plain and simple. as i said, this is not a topic you can argue with me. my friends and i wrote the book on that line of business in new york.
Written by: adaniels , 16 Feb 2009 5:56 PM
From: United States, Washington D C
Why do dominicans put that gel in there hair?
From: United States
well, Mr Lautaro, it was inevitable. the ignorance of vacanos would be his own undoing. listen fool, the 9000 per capita is an average. Mr Lautaro states correctly that the everyday person is making 200 dollars. what it implies is that some peope are making exhorbitant amounts, others a pittance. you did simple short division in school, did you not, vacanos? are you familiar with the concepts such as Average? did you actually go to school?
From: United States
vacanos, how many medallion cab companies are owned by Dominicans in NY? you remember those, do you not? you see, i have lived in new york probably before you were born. you are small fry. you are still getting the hang of the place. so, be cautious when you run off at the mouth. i might have to ask you some names and embarrass you, if you have any shame.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 6:13 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Vacanos need a vacation, I do not think math is his forte, he does not believe there inequalities in DR, he's a free market republican that does not believe in spreading the wealth around.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 6:21 PM
From: United States
dread
it is obvious you havent been to nyc in year. most of the auto repairt in nyc are owned by dominican.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 6:25 PM
From: United States
dread
it hurt 9,000us per capita. ouchhhhhh and now to discredit you are now saying it is disproportionate. lol dime otro bolero. dominican rep have the biggest economy in the caribean and centro america. ouchhhhhhhh
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 6:27 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Vacanos go away and stop embarrasing yourself and your fellow Dominicans, now you see how right your mother was... when she advised you not to drop out of science or school.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 6:28 PM
From: United States
that dr have the biggest economy in the carebean and centro america with the burden of haiti and all the corruption it is just simply remarkable.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 6:37 PM
From: United States
antonio
when you can't beat fact resort to personal attack not unusual.
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 7:03 PM
From: United States
VACA NOS plaese brother take a break.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 7:17 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 6:37 PM
From: United States
antonio
when you can't beat fact resort to personal attack not unusual."
Please list the facts that you are purpoting to Vaca
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 7:53 PM
From: United States
etienc
do you want to silence me?
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 7:55 PM
From: United States
antonia
page up and click my link. dread knew he cant discredit the source that is why he had to resort at personal attack like you
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 7:59 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 7:55 PM
From: United States
antonia
page up and click my link. dread knew he cant discredit the source that is why he had to resort at personal attack like you
"
You are right my humble apology, tienes la razon
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 8:00 PM
From: United States
US EMBASSY HOSTS BLACK HISTORY MONTH
382 posts.
.
Under international law, diplomatic missions enjoy an extraterritorial status thus, although remanining part of the host country's territory.they are exempt from local law and in almost all respects treated as being part of the territory of the home country.
They are also exempt from the bigotry, racism, and the intolerance of the host country.
United States happen to have a African American president and they are trying to senbilize the progressive and sophisticated Dominicans of the contribution and the sacrifices of the Blacks to make the United Stated a magnet for all of those including Haitians and Dominicans who are fleeing poverty and political persecution.
Having said that the black history monthe is being celebrated on american territory (The US Embassy local)
So why wasting time explaining that the good life that we immingrants are enjoying now was made possoble by the sacrifices of the blacks
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 8:09 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I really do admire your candor Bacanos, you have outshined the almighty Dread, you will one day be inducted in to the Hall-of-Fame.
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 8:11 PM
From: United States
Next Frebruary when vacanos, gizmo,goulet will cash their pay check and drop by a food store to fill carts ,I hope they will remember who have fought to make it possible for them.
I hope they will find a place in their conscience to recognize the sacrifices of the black man to make these US the magnet for oll the opressed and the hungry and those seek a better life.
This is why we celebrate black history month.
vacanos gizmo goulet , next time you devour that hamburger remember black history month.
Plase do not post anything stupid or ignorant,
i have challenged you conscience,let the informations sink in and be a real man.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 8:14 PM
From: United States
antonio
apology accepted amigo
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 8:17 PM
From: United States
etienc
my point from the beginning had been it is not a place for dr. you have your opinion i have my opinion.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 8:51 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 8:11 PM
From: United States
Next Frebruary when vacanos, gizmo,goulet
"
Why are you naming Goulet in there, Etiennc you have made several comments about him in the past...I have been reading your postings....... unless you can point to me anyone of Goulet's posting where he has been deliberately prejudice, otherwise you need to redraw these comments. Come on let be fair.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 8:58 PM
From: Canada, home safe
"Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 8:17 PM
From: United States
etienc
my point from the beginning had been it is not a place for dr. you have your opinion i have my opinion
"
Vacanos, you are missing the point, the embassy is a sovereign entity within DR territory and they can do that, however Dominicans that share your opinion are not obligated to attend capich if you feel so strong you may want to start a protest or piquetting.
Written by: antonioj, 16 Feb 2009 9:03 PM
From: Canada, home safe
hey a record, are we going to break the 400 ?
Written by: etiennc, 16 Feb 2009 9:48 PM
From: United States
vacanos this has been a enlighting day for you, we have forced you to confront the demons that are holding you hostage.
You will not be able to sleep tonight. it is going to be a fight between your ID and your Ego
your instinct and your sentiment (Dominican Today's posters)
your temperament and the character that we have instilled in you today
Free a last
oh God Almighty vacanos is free
ANTONIOJ VACANOS IS FREE
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 10:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Vacanos said: NOW WHERE IS THIS CLOWN COMING FROM. I HATE TO BREAK IT ON YOU BUDDY BUT DOMINICAN PER CAPITA MAKE $9,000US ACCORDING TO CIA FACTBOOK. A YEAR IMAGINE IF THERE WERE NO HAITIAN WORKING FOR FOOD HOW MUCH THAT FIGURE WILL GO UP.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....s/the-world-factbook/geos/dr.htmlALLWAYS WITH FACT BABY DISCREDIT HATER LIKE YOU
As Dread tried to get into your thick skull (to no avail, it seems), the US$9000 is only an average, which means that while some people are making huge profits (like the construction moguls and the politicos), others, like the rest of the population that you seem to ignore, live with less than the necessary to afford the basics of life. If the situation were as rosy as you put, why the heck your father fled to States, eh jerk? Are you so dumb to not recognize the fact that the capitalists that you're so occupied in defending are the first ones responsible for the presence of the haitians in the country? (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 10:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) or the fact that, no matter what you or other like-minded people think or say about the matter, they'll keep bringing them as long as the cheap labour afforded by those inmigrants fills the coffers of their respective companies, it's called economics 101, jerk, so you might as well go to a school and stop embarrassing yourself so gratituously on the net.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 11:13 PM
From: United States
JUST WEHN I THOUGH I WAS OUT THEY PULLED BACK IN
laurato
don't you think the same can be said about other country in the world per capita. that statement make no sense since you will have to apply to everybody. second im not trying to give the rosy scenary as you stated im just giving out fact you do with it what feel. third i stated with all our problem it is remarkable that our per capita is 9,000us. yes my father left and i dont blame him under the circunstance at the moment it was a no brainer. im a realist usa give the most opportunity to its people. on your final point all the dominican making a better life in the usa are not jerk. i believe we live in the best system of the world. im a realist i dont fault the usa because our scumbag politician value a few centavos over their homeland.
laurato you have to come here and experience this way of life and the oportunity its offer to the people. you dont see many ingrate out there talking bad about the usa.cont
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 11:21 PM
From: United States
let me tell you how greatfull im to this country i joined the us army for 2 year por agradecimiento a esta gran nacion. this country gave me opportunity to go to college free and gave me money to attend. got my BA worked hard after college got my business bought a house my wife got also a master we are both from santiago we got two kids a dog house in the backyard. living the american dream. laurato this is a great nation who treat ttheir people with respect.
Written by: vacanos, 16 Feb 2009 11:33 PM
From: United States
when the dr try to excersise its law and many of us agree please dont take it as i against the hatian people. it is the country right.
like the usa today ordered 30,000 haitian to leave the country. it is the usa right to excersise its law plain and simple. please dont go saying usa against immigration because that is not true the same go to dr we just want to be legal.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/906319.htmlWritten by: Lautaro, 16 Feb 2009 11:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
No thanks, although I don't doubt all the great things that the system offers to those who take the chances, I'd rather fight my battles on my own country, the only piece of earth where I'm not a foreigner. Besides, from what others have told me, the social democratic system existing in Europe is superior to the dog-eat-dog one existing on the US, despite the fact that european taxes are higher, the plus of this system being that it affords a more ample safety net to the workers that one way or another may find themselves unemployed at the time. Also, from what I have read from some publications (among them the ones from the IMF) the flag countries of the social democracy, that is, Luxembourg and Norway, have a GDP per capita greater than the one of the US, the one from Norway being US$102,524, Luxembourg being US$81,730, while the US one is US$47,025.
Written by: antonioj, 17 Feb 2009 12:06 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Vacanos=Rubi seem to think and write alike, you can not hide it buddy, times is up
Written by: vacanos, 17 Feb 2009 12:22 AM
From: United States
laurato
do you know a immigrant cannot open his own business in most european country unlike the capitalist usa where if you have the dough as you wish. how can you compare such small country to the country that started all. $47,000us for a country of over 300 million that is remarkable and also put into account many people report less to avoid paying more taxes. if you ask anybody those country u mentioned are what the size of dr and probably a few million people. you dont know what you talking about even the ilegal here get a piece of our resource. imagine the people who are unemployed but are legal.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Lautaro,
"Luxembourg and Norway, have a GDP per capita greater than the one of the US, the one from Norway being US$102,524, Luxembourg being US$81,730, while the US one is US$47,025."
I wanted to stay away from these discussions because of the personal nature they have taken. However, your comment above regarding the "Grand Duchy of Luxembourg" compelled me to join in. I have an office in Bascharage, Luxembourg and am familiar with the rather small country.
You make a rather unfair comparison based on GDP, as you neglect the rather significant cost of living differences. Home ownership is out of reach for many workers, and they are practically forced to live in nearby France [Longwy, Metz, etc.] or Belgium [Arlon, etc.] or Germany [Trier, etc.]. Taxes, clothing, dining, fuel and just about everything else is also appreciably more expensive. In the end, the GDP differences might prove insignificant.
From: Haiti
Now with the economic crisis, I was expecting more comments, 400 comments...wow. I ve read all of them and here s my resume "unemployed" what explain the time you guys are waisting here
From: Cuba, it is a secret the censors are looking for me
glomar thank you for clarifying that.....Lautaro I have lived in Europe and traveled extensively ...they are mostly closed societies with few opportunities for poorer immigrants ....no comparison to the opportunities available in USA
Written by: Gizmo , 17 Feb 2009 2:05 AM
From: United States
Dreadlocks Black Americans are at the bottom of the totem pole in business ownership. You talk a good game, but you lack substance in factual accounts. You come here with you're perception and bias towards Dominicans. Dominicans own and operate Super markets in all the five boroughs and beyond. The Super Market industry is one of a few enterprises that has not felt the pinch of the U.S. recession, why everybody needs to eat. Today Dominicans are not concentrating their efforts in the little Bodegas, they no longer represent a good investment in the short term or long, most Bodegas today are being operated by Arabs and other ethnic groups. As far as the cab industry there's many Dominicans that own bases and medallions. Anywhere you go Dominicans have and own businesses small and big. If you go to any neighborhood in places like New York, Massachussetts, Virginia etc you wont see any blacks owning any business, most likely they're trying to rob the place. Continued.,
Written by: Gizmo , 17 Feb 2009 2:16 AM
From: United States
CONTINUED., What's the statistic one in 4 Black American's is in prison or has a criminal record. Seriously you need to do you're home work 'HOMMIE', before you start spewing ignorance. In fact if it wasn't for Dominicans many poor area's in New York city overunned with Blacks and Puerto Ricans would remained virtual "ghettos." Even the mayor of New York city Bloomberg, recognizes the massive contributions Dominicans have given to the city, something blacks can't claim. Enjoy this link is for you and all your Afro-Centrist Caucus and round table.
http://www.hhscenter.org/bonbstat.html Written by: Lautaro, 17 Feb 2009 8:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Glomar and GC,
That's precisely the reason why I put those two examples, to show our uninformed friend here that GDP is more often than not an inadequate indicator to look at when examining about the well being of a country, that he should not let himself be misled by the rosy pictures that the politicos might draw of the country when making political campaigning on the big apple. That while a lot of politicos, engineers and touristic moguls might be making some killing profits, the vast majority of the population of the DR is barely making ends meet at the end of each month, lacking things that people living in the US and other developed societies take for granted, such as medical insurance, adequate medical facilities, a competitive education system, electric system, potable water and security to mention some of them. Heck, insecurity in SDQ is such that, if things keep going as they do, it will soon surpass Caracas as the murder capital of the Americas.
Written by: Lautaro, 17 Feb 2009 8:18 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont..) were it not for the remittances that a large chunk of the populace is receiving right now, I think that it wouldn't have been long before the US would have had to deal with an economic refugee crisis on their hands, just like the boatpeople crisis they had with Cuba on 94'.
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I was trying to educate you about humanity, and try to take your mind out of the gutter. Apparently that is not working. Your mind is a terrible thing that you are wasting… I am not going to further dignify your comments.
Yes, it's true that the majority of Dominicans are mixed (not 100% black nor Anglo-saxon). Even in Santiago - my home for years it is clearer to see the genetic influence of the African genes even in the clara chicas. When you see a beautiful chica in the Central Cuidad near the universities in Santiago just look at her "body type and nice round pompi (azz)". Generally, these chicas (I know many) are mostly genetically influenced in their body types by African genes (but which are "mixed" with indigeneous & spanish - skin tone & hair etc). The greatest spanish influence is actually in culture (NOT genetics). I know ladies from Spain but they look nothing like the beautiful chicas in Santiago barrios, just fyi. Same is true for Jennifer Lopez (not surgery).
One of the spillover goals of Christopher Columbus was race mixing (after souls & gold)!
http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=15
Trust me on this one, this essay is truly an eye-opener.
Nobody is denying you any part of your heritage, although many mixed Dominicans tend to acknowledge and are more proud of their lighter heritage than their black one. I am not stating 2/3 Dominicans are blacks, rather using U.S. standard that would be the case. In fact, President Obama is mixed race, yet in the U.S. he is being called “black”. I did not know Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez were illegal Haitians. This was not an issue of black and white, rather responding to your incognizant comment "Black American heritage has nothing to do with Dominican society at all martian man. WHO CARES! “. You yourself just stated that 10% Dominicans are blacks and 72% are mixed & 18% whites, maybe you should learn more about yourself and your people and the rest of the world that you live in. Insulting other people does not make you better, it diminishes you. My quest to continue to educate you amigo.
We have a African-American presence in Samana, who have been in that region for 150 years; We don't need Uncle Sam coming now to try to school us on human relations? Why didn't they do it in 1916, or In 1965? Because of the Jim Crow idiologies that dominated the U.S., then. So, Black History, yes! Many Dominicans are of the African Diaspora, and some with roots in the deep south of the U.S. But, this new-fangled, Obama inspired insights keep to yourselves and your conscienses. Clean up your own histrory before you attempt to import your new philosophies. I remember the Palm Beach (Pambiche) dancing stories.....
Run that game on someone else....Since 1964 it's a new world according to U.S.A.
From: United States
why
"
why not ? why deny your elusive 10% black the choice of participating, anyone should take part if they so desire, black history is a legacy left for humanities that should be appreciated regardless of color.
I was in college 90% white there was black history month, the UN have even recognized this as such, again Gizmo why not
Idiot like you, make Dominican look like the laughing stock in the world stage
From: United States
Antonioj you're the laughing stock on this forum!
"
You can not stand the true, I am on the rigth side, be proud of all heritages that make up the dominican mozaic and the liberties to celebrate it, be open, reasonable that is what-- will make DR a great country and be reverred in the world stage. Your simple mind is not able to graps such a simple concept, interestingly enough you hail form the US you should know better than being a self hatred person.
Identity is a product of "dialogue" and celebrating black heritage, regardless of where it is found, is a way of promoting positive image for a subaltern group that is constantly faced with media, education, and popular culture that denies or belittles their role in history and society. e.g., Besides the Loto billboards, how many non-whites do you see in advertisement in the DR? Moreover, besides the workers, who many non-whites do you see in Casa de Campo?
Anyhow, celebrating US black history month is as valid in the DR as having most of our main avenues names after foreign (US-mostly) presidents :-)
He said the opening event is slated for 5 p.m., and the round table will begin at 5:30 p.m.
----------------------------
What I see here is an under-handed manner of fomenting unrest in an already fragile socio-economic, have and have nots, class-racial climate. The situation in DR, in my opinion is a powder keg.
The last thing you need is a "round-table" (masonic-King Arthur-designed) at "La UASD".
Does anyone remember what that place is famous for?
Unrest, riots, protests, which then require police/military intervention.
These Foreign (agents) Black History proponents are really a cunning coniving lot.
Take that to Georgetown University in Chocolate City; or Fordham U, in Goya-landia, and run that scam there! Jesuits!
Let's quit holding our noses in the air about the evil Northerner as though our culture's racism is leaps and bounds above theirs. At the end of the day the US society has produced the most influential leaders of the African Diaspora, and from the US have emerged black cultures that are mimicked the world over from Europe to Asia to Africa itself. For all its ongoing social ills, among industrialized countries the US has surely the most developed legal protections, policy instruments, and non-governmental social institutions to promote the Black community. To my knowledge this is bar none unquestionable. In spite of (because of?) ODR the United States is quite possibly the leading black nation of the world.
Unfortunately, the Ideal identity in the DR is "European." people who fit mold are portrayed as our national leaders and what we should aspire to become. There was an article in the Miami Herald a couple of years ago that claimed that DOminican hair-stylists are the considered the best, b/c they are able to straighten hair better than anywhere else. I don't know if the claim is true or not, but it is indicative of how we idolize the European, and vilify what's not. What do people call musica de Palo? Don't we call that devil music? or santeria music? WHY IS THAT? Isn't palo as legitimate Dominican as Merengue & Bachata? Instead of celebrating Palo, we seek Classical music - which I love, but not at the expense of denying my love for palo.
It is true in DR's history the populace (aka peasantry) managed to generate a culture less tinged by these racial systems than most. But this was not for lack of trying by the European! The relaxed form of colorism is a result of the rural resistance to the control of the metropolis and the freedom enabled by our beautiful, bountiful island. Nonetheless how much different do you really think it was for a 'terceron' in colonial Santo Domingo than in Charleston? Also many will gladly tell you that there are significant 'red lines' in even DR society where this relaxed colorism is suddenly as stringent as ODR.
If you're so "proud" and "democratic" then why so many of you frowned when Tiger Woods wanted to acknowledge his multirracial origins instead of just saying "I'm black" or "I'm african-american", looking and accusing him of being a "sellout", "passer" and "racial traitor" among other not-so kind epithets?
Miscegenation, along with a portrayal of a Single National identity hid the racial divides and inequalities in Brazilian culture. But the truth of the mater is that the elites in BRazil, jus tlike in the DR, are overwhelmingly white. One or two are allowed to get to a position of power, as long as they tow the party line, to show that it is possible, and keep people "hypnotized" w/ the idea that if you follow the rules, work hard, you'll make it...
Of course DR had more recognized mixing (btw 'miscegenation' is a pejorative, racist word), for both cultural and material reasons. But DR is not the only example of colorism, and it did not play out this way in every colorist regime. I'm all for letting people know they need to consider our specific history and culture when they become too vehement about race in DR, but conversely I also oppose insecure paranoia around black discourse.
Gizmo in NYC you will find a statue of JP Duarte, schools and avenues named after him. The homegrown Americans do not complain we have imposed anything on them, it is simply more cultural exchange.
My only commentary is that the Embassy belongs to the US therefore making it US-related in most senses (I really hope that's not mind-boggling). So if something is happening in the US then the US embassy in the DR would somehow be affected or acknowledge it. Now obviously this can't be said for everything going on in America but it is a month long celebration. And in order for a round table discussion and film viewings concerning black history to be taking place at Santo Domingo State University there must have been some Dominican interest. Perhaps those of you asking why such an event is taking place need to target that question towards the Dominicans interested in such a concept, ¿verdad?
or the racist masacre of 1805 by christophe and desalines on white and mulato.
But, one should not use history to justify discrimination and oppression today. We should, first of all QUESTION history, b/c maybe, just maybe, it may be a little biased - just a thought. But we should study history to learn of previous discrimination and oppressions so that we combat them TODAY!!!
Does that make sense? if it doesn't let me know, b/c I have a lot of material on critiquing history and how history has been used to justify oppression time and time again throughout the world- against women, against jews, against non-white, against the poor, against gays... You name it! But what you have to understand is that we need to question history, b/c the dominant group is the one who has written the history books we read in school...
no only my dominican heritage which happen to be spanish.
Baldoria:
Foment: to instigate or foster rebellion:
Are you at least 40 years old? Do you remember La Revolucion? Where was there more unrest , where were the most young radicals, and political activists? En la UASD!
That's the last place you want some secret agent setting off a subversive molotv cocktail under the guise of a Roundtable. Por favor, we're grown ups that have been around the block (la manzana y no solo NY, sino la Isabela Catolica, Arzobispo Meriño, la Mella..) a few times.
If you don't know ask somebody who's been there.
I recognize there are racial conflicts within our nation; However, do you need Johnny Johnson to come to lecture our folks about how they do Black History?
We have our own Black History: Lillis, Luperon, Santana brothers (mixed), Peña Gomez, Corporan de Los Santos, Johnny Ventura, Mama Tingo, Julito Dechamps, Fausto Rey, Cuco Valoy, Rico Carty, Alberto Beltran, Joseito Mateo, El canario..
Here's a little insight - it's both! and to address social injustice you need to look at both institutionalist as well as individualist factors. Can you see that? can you?
the anti-hatian come from their own doing. please read some book about their invasion and masacre from 1801-1844. We dominican had been the victim. We let them in our land and a few year later they tried to take over the island. We can't never low our gurad with those people. trust me. they are savalve if you don't believe me look at their land there is no tree left. If we let them we will have no tree left too in 50 year.
So yes, the UASD is a potential place of revolutionary thinking, we just need to create more of these spaces and get more people access to these spaces so that it's not the ONLY place ;-)
The only ones who have to fear change are those oligarchs who continue to horde the fruits of our nation...
BD:
Well if you weren't around then you probably wouldn't know where this expession comes from either: "Apuntalo en un papelito de celofan, belleza"!
That fomenting will start somthing that they may regret afterwards.
Keep on dreamin'....De la Soul!
Well, I don't know Manny. With the adoration that a large part of our populace have for everything coming from the US (and I mean EVERYTHING) one can never be too sure if there's not going to be a group of morons out there trying to replicate a similar system here (although they would be hard pressed to do so by their scant numbers alone). Although I'm hopeful that, if we haven't adopted that system in over a century of cultural exchange, there's (cont...)
then you are the tupical african american activist allways claming to be the victim for their lazyness. who allways try to get money from the govt and housing project. and when a respectable african american try to talk about they start telling their own people he is another uncle tom. so sad
I don't believe it has anything to do with haitian-dominican relations, if any.
My only commentary is that the Embassy belongs to the US therefore making it US-related in most senses (I really hope that's not mind-boggling). So if something is happening in the US then the US embassy in the DR would somehow be affected or acknowledge it. Now obviously this can't be said for everything going on in America but it is a month long celebration. And in order for a round table discussion and film viewings concerning black history to be taking place at Santo Domingo State University there must have been some Dominican interest. Perhaps those of you asking why such an event is taking place need to target that question towards the Dominicans interested in such a concept, ¿verdad?
Are you getting it Gizmo? maybe what we've read in books are telling part of the story! Maybe we should reference history, discuss it, but not use it to support discrimination and hate. Maybe we should dare to work for a better future free of discrimination against women, non-whites, the elderly, migrants, people of other religions, homosexuals, etc.
I know Black History: I attended NYC public schools, then City College. Black History has flourished as I grew up. But, to try and have the Diplomatic/ Embassy staff lecture Dominicans on Black History is frivolous and unwarranted.
There's an insidious method to this madness: http://www.worldtribune.com/world....WTARC/2009/ss_media0117_02_10.asp
That's what they're up to!
Elites exporting their newfangled "global" philosophy; Then, they flee after they're through to their concierge, and valet catered roosts. "Changing Places"?
Los Yankis Invasores now want to teach the young, and clueless about human relations?
Where was all this higher learning in 1965?
http://www.worldtribune.com/world....WTARC/2009/ss_media0117_02_10.asp
That's what's up, b.
Dread, I'm surprised by this post of yours. You've been on this site for some time and you've indicated that you travel to DR on a regular basis. As such you should know that you cannot have a discussion concerning race with a Dominican without Haiti popping up in the discussion. It can't be done. The whole Dominican concept of what is authentically black is thoroughly intertwined with how most Dominicans view haitians, which in itself is an important component of how most Dominicans ultimately view themselves.
Furthermore, it's not clear if you're denying that there is racism in the DR or not, but you're against any discussion of the sort. I'm I getting your argument right? I just want to make sure, b/c you're all over the place.
Gizmo,
Dominican Republic is a "Black Country" with different shades. PERIOD.
The Statistical Break Down:
84% Black/mixed (Either pure black or mixed with African/Haitian blood)
16% White (European descent)
Therefore, a country where 84% of the population carry African/Haitian DNA, is a black country. CASE CLOSED.
Black History Month is being promoted in DR just to give ill-informed Dominicans a dose of reality about their true heritage, which is the African heritage, not the Spanish heritage as they have been made to believe. It's a time for Dominicans to reflect on their true identity and to see the light.
I am urging all Dominicans to participate in the "Black History Month" activities"
By the way, Obama's book title is "The Audacity of Hope". Frederick Douglas was U.S. Ambassador to Haiti, 1889-1891. He said "The freedom that has come to the colored race is largely due to the brave stand taken by the sons of Haiti".
"The Voice of Reason"
Liberated and occupied are words that have totally different meanings and as such this sentence made no sense to me.
The Statistical Break Down: 84% Black/mixed (Either pure black or mixed with African/Haitian blood), 16% White (European descent).Therefore, a country where 84% of the population carry African/Haitian DNA, is a black country. CASE CLOSED."
Do you see now, zak, what we dominicans are wary about? It's not the discussion in itself, but the fact that ignorant sheep like the one above trying to impose their afro-centric, one-droppist XIX century theories and agenda on the dominican populace. If that is not asking for disaster then I don't know what it is.
Do you see what I mean? in case you don't, let me spell it out for your in simple terms, Regardless of whether you see the Haitians as liberators or invaders in the early 19th cent., it does not justify or legitimize a social structure that discriminates and promotes hatred. Let me know if you want me to rephrase or provide a different approach...
But besides this, fighting for a society that hails Human Rights and Justice as the cornerstone of how we treat people, is only a threat to the small percentage of the population who reap the benefits of our society.
Maybe that's so because you haven't been following his line of thought in its entirety, baldy. If you'd take the bothersome and excruciating work of reading his every single post, you'll find only the following arguments: "Dominicans are lazy, haitians are the best, dominicans are passers and european wannabe's, haitians are proud of their "blackness", dominicans are criminal people, haitians upright and well-bred, therefore, the DR have to let every single haitian to do as he/she pleases on its territory". Everything based on an opportunistic use of the one drop rule to negate our rights to be a sovereign nation. (cont...)
You do not need to think about the answer, Judging from you past posts your answer should have been prompt
I have got you to think. Something you have never done before.
I got you scared.
i got you in touch with your fragility and your own mortality.
Vanity Vanity ,it is all Vanity
I want my mommy
I want my mommy
88% to the lighter side. dominican come from either white or mulato to the white side. no pure black. pure black of the time didnt follow christianity and kept to their african culture.
my iPhone first to admit I may be addicted.
Goulet looking out for his investment. I have convinced myself that you have some financial stake in DT, which would totally explain your exagerated number of postings. You and maybe one or two others.
That's not a denial.
vacanos,
The Haitians and the Haitian-Americans are on the intellectual front in the U.S.. the majority of black doctors (Physicians) in the U.S. are Haitians or Haitian Americans. The Haitians and Haitian-Americans are lawyers, doctors, nurses, system analysts, computer engineers, architects, engineers, scientists,
Dumarsais Simeus is a billionaire Haitian businessman in the U.S.
Patrick Gaspard is currently The White House Political Director in Obama's administration.
There are Haitian-American Mayors, Councilmembers, Assemblymembers, judges, deputy borough president, etc.. in New York and Florida. The current General Governor of Canada is a Haitian immigrant by the name of Michaelle Jean. I can go on and on...
You said that Haitians work for food and they are taking Dominicans' jobs. Why has your system encouraged Haitians to work in DR? I believe it's because Haitians are more effective and efficient workers.
"The Rational Mind"
I think the one drop rule is nonsense. A distant white ancestor wouldn't make someone white so why should the reverse be true?
i was just correcting you in your previous wrong post.
"The Rational Mind"
See baldy, what did I tell you? He just can't contain his hatred for us.
dispclacing us because they work for food or as slave while dominican don't . pure and simple
Thanks baby for your comment .I agree with you many of my people think they are white but they are just confused. However not all of us think in the same way.
hizmo -cause
Haitian1804 -effect
Bye
Bye Bye Bye Bye
Good for you..some of us were born Red, White and Blue and proud of it as well.
If I really hated DR or Dominicans, I would have never taken 10 trips to DR. I would have boycotted it. You make no sense when you say I hate Dominicans. You are flat out lying. I have known some Dominicans who are some of the finest people that I ever met. When Haitians or Haitian-Americans say that they will never go to DR, I always tell them these folks are our neighbors and it's worthy of paying them a visit and get to know the other side of the island.
The Rational Mind"
obviouslly they do pay us a visit but como manada.
You really believe what you say? You should know better the anti-Haitian sentiment in DR. I will give you a hint 1801-1844. They could not stay in their side of the island. They killed the white and mulato, rape our women, throw our kids into the air for an awaiting bayonet, tried to abolish Christianity. Half of the white and mulato population in the Espanola fled for Puerto Rico, Cuba and Venezuela by 1830. Thank God for Duarte who came back to freed us. The only mistake made during the independence was not to drive the Haitian back to the ocean fair game usually in war winner take all. . But we were peaceful people who just wanted to be let alone with our faith. For the a thousand time get it thru your head the reason there is a DR is because my ancestor fought for the Spanish idea not the black Haitian.
I have a simple response for you. Toussaint Louverture liberated the entire island.
Haitians never invited any European countries to come back and take over the island again; However, DR did.
Haitians are peaceful people. Remember they didn't ask to be brought to the island. They were kidnapped in Africa by the same barbaric Europeans that you are claiming as your heritage. Atrocities, rapes, murder, barbarism were committed against the pacific Haitians/enslaved Africans. When the Haitians rose up and gave the Europeans a taste of their own medicine, it was simply in self-defense. It was legit. Haitians don't have to apologize to barbaric Europeans. We are the children of Africa. Africa is where the first human being first walked the face of this earth.
Dominicans with good judgment should embrace their African ancestry, not the European's. The Europeans were the enemies of Blacks freedom. Europeans can go to hell !!!
"The Rational Mind"
"The Voice of Reason"
You are living in the US
What about meeting if Florida where i live, I will be the referee.
Who is controlling DR today? the small percentage of Europeans? the 16%. Right?
"The Rational Mind"
I am down. Let's organize a face-to-face meeting. If we can't settle our difference intellectually, then we can proceed to a fist fight (What we call here "ultimate fight"). Maybe we should do it "Pay-Per-View. We can make lot of money. LOL
"The Rational Mind"
yeah go to DR and tell the people there what you just telling here making a fool out of you and while you at it tell them also that juan pablo duarte was a criminal. let see if you make it out alive.
who kidnapped the slave in africa?
try their own people
wait hold on you actually claiming here it wasnt the african tribu people who sold the slaves to the european?
The slave trade was a European venture. I sign and affirm what I say. Are you satisfied?
You are preaching violence. I am not. If you go to Haiti, you can say whatever you want. Haiti has freedom of speech. You will come out alive.
"The Voice of Reason"
i didnt get you did you know or did you not knew that it was the african tribe people who sold their own people to the european?
Whites soon forget that their forefathers were all immigrants here at one time in history but stole land to gain wealth, became agriculture icons with zero cost labor while keeping all the profits.
History repeats itself today as bank execs get big paydays while laying off the lower class.
And yes, it is true that I have SUPER-POWERS where I can be blind-fold and fell a woman's azz and determine if she has some portion of African descent. This super power has been time tested and +80% effective!
Gizmo, you are making yourself look un-intelligent!
vacanos,
African tribes were always at peace living a smooth day-to-day life in their homeland. The barbaric Europeans came and kidnapped my ancestors and treated them like animals and scattered them all over the world like cattles. The Europeans divided the African families. They raped my great great grandmothers and sisters. How would you have felt if you were in their place?
"When you talk about Europeans, History has proven that the Haitians were right over and over again to defeat the Spanish, the English and the French/Napoleonic troops .
Thank you Toussaitnt Louverture !!!!
Thank you Jean-Jacques Dessalines !!!
Long live BLACK HISTORY MONTH !!!!
Long live Anti-Slavery activist Frederick Douglas !!!!
Again, all Europeans can go to hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Rational Mind"
the only one living in denial here is you. here reality check. don't get upset at your people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
vacanos,
wikipedia is the most unreliable source.
Who brought the slaves to the island? The Arabs? The Africans? or the Europeans? Answer me!
"The Voice of Reason"
Let's stop all denial, for we are culturally conditioned to be racist. We distinguish between shades of black, and even believe that race can be bleached by financial status. Anybody who doesn't believe that just has to remember everyday schoolyard terms such as: cocolo; bembu; mulato; negro de mierda; prieto feo; culua; etc. Regrettably, I must admit to have uttered some of these terms myself and am sorry for it.
Those of us of light skin and straight hair can also go on fooling ourselves. Here in US it really doesn't much matter. You are Dominican and, therefore, a minority indistinguishable from black. I have a non-Spanish European last name, and have been encouraged to anglicize my first name so people are not confused-the nerve! I am proud of my heritage and I will not change it for no one!
Barbaric Europeans were not just satisfied to bring slaves to the Western Hemisphere, they also went inside the continent of Africa and colonized the African people. They continued their mistreatment of the black race in its own homeland.
"The Rational Mind"
EUROPEAN
answer me this then who sold the slaves to the european?
that is worst than what the european did.
you could understand that people allways go with their race but to sell your own race that is just worst.
esos decendientes de domnicanos ahora desean que sus relativos hubiesen quedados en la Republica peliando los haitianos salvajes. Ahora estan viviendo en un infierno comunismo. Que mala suerte.
Quisqueyanos valientes, alcemos Nuestro canto con viva emoción,
Y del mundo a la faz ostentemos Nuestro invicto glorioso pendón.
Salve el pueblo que intrépido y fuerte, A la guerra a morir se lanzó
Cuando en bélico reto de muerte Sus cadenas de esclavo rompió.
Ningún pueblo ser libre merece Si es esclavo indolente y servil;
Si en su pecho la llama no crece Que templó el heroismo viril.
Más Quisqueya la indómita y brava Siempre altiva la frente alzará:
Que si fuere mil veces esclava Otras tantas ser libre sabrá
anyone out there try this simple experiment
Say
gizmovocanoscruz666
gizmovocanoscruz666
gizmovocanoscruz666
three times and tell me what happens to you.
I tried and I had a bowel movement .
Totally pretentious on my part, but I could not have said it better myself; that's why you are the doctor.
seriously I want you to try this experiment
say
gizmovacanoscruz666 3 times and se what wil happen to you
Answer: Toussaint Louverture, Martin Luther King, Frederick Douglas, etc...
If it wasn't for Toussaint Louverture and other black heroes, what would Domincans do in the U.S. today?
Answer: ...(You fill in the blank)
"The Rational Mind"
Did I mention you seen like your "typical black amerian activist" the charlatan of Al Sharpton or Jessey Jackson or Jeremiah Wright. These kind of buffon preached for govt to give them money to feed their people and housing project for shelter for their people. and once they get what they want they start badmouth the people who gave them the handout. Take for instance wright he got all kind of federal aid for his "church" yet in every sermon he is asking the arabs to come roost the chicken out. Dread in you I see them. these people are taking their own people down with them. When they can't get up from the project to look for a job they blame the white people. when they get arrested it is racism. When a respectful african american try to talk about the issue and how to help their community these clowns are the first one to discredit these honest people. I see them I see you.
why you say that?
Black Power!
Happy "Black History Month"
I am glad that the U.S Ambassador in DR is forcing Dominicans to see light that DR is a black nation.
It's a time to reflect and to thank great heroes such as: Toussaint Louverture, Dessalines, Boyer, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama, Farrakhan, Bob Marley, Marcus Garvey, Medgar Evers, Aristide, Mandela, Henry Christophe, etc...
Enjoy this great songs by Bob Marley and Wyclef Jean. In the song Bob Marley says "None but ourselves can free our minds". The brave and incredible Haitians did just that. I love you Haiti cherie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHgMD1S0bg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNFBqhVFfTo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnqGyzWPpp4&feature=related
"The Free and Rational Mind"
You need to get over it. Because if you did, you'd realize that the dominantly Black country of Haiti, most likely the people you look down at, are the prime source for the eradication of slavery, as our history tells us. That as the gentleman Lautaro above basically expressed, "Welcome To The Club!" Just like Black President Obama of the USA. Call it miscegenation if you will on those (African) slave plantations. Today if you abuse our women like that, you go to jail. In fact we People of Color are a proud group. We don't need the beach for a tan.. And we don't need European type approvement, the be a man. I'm a happy light-skinned African. Born In The USA! misegination, maintain the
In regards to Cruz's comments, different times call for different approaches. Our African liberators, came in all types. Some violent, some passive, and some strategized behind curtains. Unless you are a weakling, everyone fights in their own way. Haiti stood up for all enslaved People of Color , Africa included. Like religion, all of us are after the same prize. We may just happen to be taking different, not wrong, avenues. I look forward to the day when we unite, as our blood dictates us to. I know Cesar, you don't know what I'm talking about, but you will. I GUARANTEE IT!
Haiti had imperialist ambitions! The 1801, 1805, 1822, 1845, 1849 and 1855 invasions were to conquer, colonize, and annex STO DGO/DR! Don't hid that fact with the original Haitian effert to kick the French out!
Unite? Unite your hole with your pipe because that will not happen. Nature has always favored diversity and heterogeneity as a way to ensure survival to all kinds of challenges. If we unite (homogenize), the human species will vunerable to diseases or climate changes or UV or Gamma rays leading to complete extinction. You fool, no man's law can violate nature's law! Diversity and adaptation are key to the humans! Keep all separate and may be we'll make it!
From: United States, New York City
GC playing the victim is the American way. Just turn on your TV and watch the whining and entitlement of Americans of all colors. Don't pin that on blacks, who unlike most other groups here have historical and material causes for their political claims......................Manny I thoroughly agree with you ...But it is the blacks a la Jackson and Sharpton et al who have brought it to an art form
etiennc,
For your knowledge, Obama is not hiding his blackness and his African heritage like the Dominicans. Read Obama's own words below:
"...after my election as the first black president of the Harvard Law review"
SOURCE: Obama's book "Dreams from My Father", 2004 edition, Introduction, page XIII.
"...the result of my election as the first African-American president of Harvard Law Review"
SOURCE: Obama's book "Dreams from My Father", 2004 edition, Preface, page VII.
Obama is married to a Black American woman also. Michelle Obama is the daughter of slave descent in the South.
Don't worry. Obama CAN NOT FAIL. The man is a genius. He defeated all the white candidates in their own game. He unites Blacks, Hispanics, Whites, Asian, Native Americans and Indian together.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
OK consider this. In the USA, where I was born, I have documentation that go back to 1810 in my lineage. 1810 in US slavery that is, with one rape in 1864. However, in the country where I was born, those of us of African descent, are called minorities, and classified as second class. Where my family fought it almost every prior war (I was in Viet Nam). However, a white born Cuban, never having put his life on the line, is extended rights over me, simply because he is white! Now in regards to imperialism, look at USA's former President Bush, and his ideology, before you finger Haiti. Were you talking about inbreeding? What I meant was that as Europeans carry their genes that lack melanin, we carry genes just the opposite. Diseases? By the way, was it not the Europeans, that leveled the Native American with their health issues? I am a result of slave inbreeding. Yet my health and appearance is immaculate. So is my mutt terrier. How is your health, separatist?
Haiti may have well had imperialist ambition, but the real reason that Boyer invaded DR was because DR was too willing to bring back Spain to the island as a colonizer. Remember that DR invited Spain to come back to the island to govern. Then DR also offers its country to the U.S., but U.S. rejected it.
Haitians liberated the island and freed it from european influence. "Pour le drapeau pour la patrie mourrir est beau"
"The Free and Rational Mind"
that was an excellent post. too bad dread can't see past reason.
Boyer conquered El Haiti Espanol to relocate his generals from focusing a Coup d'etat against him and also to get revenues needed to pay the debt with France (in addition, to fullfil the Haitian dream of owning the whole island)! It makes no military sense to spread your military forces over a wider coastline (territory) and leave the homeland vunerable to a NAVY that can land anywhere (learn history first).
DR invite Spain to take control of DR because of the numerous Haitian invasions of 1845, 1849 and 1855! And even Soulouque threatened to re-invade DR in 1859 and that push Santana to look for an European ally to protect us from another 1822-1844 military dictatorship!
IT WAS HAITI WHO PUSHED US TO GO BACK TO SPAIN IN 1809 AND 1860! Learn HISTORY!
Boyer conquered El Haiti Espanol to relocate his generals from focusing a Coup d'etat against him and also to get revenues needed to pay the debt with France (in addition, to fullfil the Haitian dream of owning the whole island)! It makes no military sense to spread your military forces over a wider coastline (territory) and leave the homeland vunerable to a NAVY that can land anywhere (learn history first).
DR invite Spain to take control of DR because of the numerous Haitian invasions of 1845, 1849 and 1855! And even Soulouque threatened to re-invade DR in 1859 and that push Santana to look for an European ally to protect us from another 1822-1844 military dictatorship!
IT WAS HAITI WHO PUSHED US TO GO BACK TO SPAIN IN 1809 AND 1860!
you are one of the few black american not in jail? and also you go a job. you are on a roll my friend
stop your hatred. will you rather be starving yourself in africa or be having all the luxury in the usa. stop whining. the same go to the haitian people they better off in haiti than ruanda where they are killing each other until the last one survive.
Thank God for trujillo. at the time he was a necesery evil. trujillo stop them once and for all their imperialist ambition. Maybe what we need now is another trujillo.
Here is another Haitian claim: "Afroamerican struggles annealed the U.S. to accept immigration."
So the Chinese in the 1870's was due to the blacks? The Spanish/Mexicans were in the West way before the Afro struggles in the colonies!!
However, in my opinion for people to get this upset over talking about African Culture etc in and of it self indicates there are racial issue even if they're not as open and obvious as in the U.S.
USADR responds:
1. No one is arguing or 'getting upset' over African culture.
2. Black history month is an American holiday. It's based on African Americans, not Dominicans.
3. Dominicans are not Africans, Spaniards or sometype of Spanish speaking version of African Americans.
4. I have no problems with Black History month.
5. If you follow the progression of this thread, the argument evolves and augments when Afrocentrics, who are no better than Eurocentrics, start trying to lecture Dominicans by giving them revisonistic accounts of their own history, imposing foreign ethnocentric concepts upon the Dominican population, as well as random insults.
You made my point! Homogenization can lead to extinction (as you already mentioned the natives). If we all thinking alike (may the same mistakes) and have no gene variations, WE ARE ALL SUCEPTIBLE TO QUICK AND UNSTOPPABLE EXTINCTION!
exactly. I wouldnt be surprise if that haitian woman with dominican citizenship who work for human rights who allways try to discredit us is behind all this crap.
You are totally and completely in the dark my friend. Wake up and smell deeply the coffee. check out the links below and learn about the truth and facts about Aristide's kidnapping. The involvement of Dominican Republic, Bush, France and Canada. This matter is now under investigation by the U.S. Congress. Bush blocked it. Now the democrats have re-opened the inquiry. Stay tuned!
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Haiti/Haiti_Q&A.html
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/aristide.htm
"The Free and Rational Mind"
we need mamoth like you for our study.
We though that breed was extinguished.
You are a curiosity and should be placed in a glass box for viewing by young Dominicans and older Dominicans wha have escaped the bubble.
But , you know that you are being watched constantly.
You are not scary "Mucho viente y poco llivias"
You are getting dumber and dumber averyday
se pa grenn ou ou di peze
You are a coward, all you do is running your sticking posts mouth in the comfort of your Brooklyn run down apartment.
while your bothers and sisters visiting and living in the Dominican Republic .
You do not have one cent invested in the Dominican Republic. You could care less if Haitians are being attacked.
We will make a petition to DT to stop you from posting incendiary comments
Keep it up !!
Are not you ashamed ??
Haiti is in a very good position today with the fast rising of African-Americans and particularly with the election of the first Black American president.
Obama addressed the Haitian-Americans in Haitian Creole and English when he said "Investing in Haiti is not just the right thing to, it's also the smart thing to do. The Haitians have suffered so much." These are the words of President Barack Hussein Obama, the first Black U.S. President.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
You see, you guys continue your stereotype BS.
1) I am a millionaire with a liberal mind
2) I live in one of wealthiest areas in Manhattan.
Your stereotyping people will make you more ignorant.
We are all learning from one another here. We don't have to agree on everything or on anything.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
From: Dominican Republic
Haitian1804, Va te faire le pompier? Ou va te faire le enculer! Sale petit pe'de'!
"
Hey ladies and gentleman this is Ondevert formerly Greenwave now his new name is letroudeballeGeneroso
etiennc01,
You want to stop me from posting while it's ok for Dominicans to promote hatred and violence. At least here we can debate ideas and sometimes heated discussions. Preventing me from posting here will result only on pushing me to open dialogues only with Human Rights Organizations. And you will have more to lose. Stopping me from posting will show how narrow minded you guys are. On what basis you want to stop me. Isn't this an open forum?
Go ahead, make my day!
Haitians never get intimidated. We are the children of Toussaint Louverture and Dessalines.
"Happy Black History Month"
"The Free & Rational Mind"
From now on, I'll be on the sideline watching only.
Bye Bye
"The Free & Rational Mind"
If you can not see the difference between --jet coal black Dieudone from PAP and Jose from cibao let me know what you are smoking.
The majority of DR population is of mix extraction that need to be acknowledged and respected as such, however I can understand their resentment when they are being forced in just one racial box ---that is simply unfair, let me point out the one drop rule was away to frobid white from marrying outside of their race.
Jim Crow is now dead, but its legacy lives on in current racial-classification practices.
Written by: Cruz666, 14 Feb 2009 3:40 PM
From: United States
Now we have a black president in the White House, the Domincans are being forced to see the light that DR is a black country. Every year now DR will have to celebrate BLACK HISTOTY MONTH. If DR refuses, DR will risk losing all U.S. support.
"The Free & Rational Mind
"Now we have a half black president in the White House"
Good point!
Frankly, I've never seen a DT a topic elicit such much passion as this one before; however, my tenure in this forum is so short. Anybody out there knows of another article which was more popular than this one?
Millionaires do not have the time to try to influence nature with some kind of voodoo hoodoo crap or satanic incantation like Cross666.
The name cross666 betrays and angry person who can t make it in life and he is turning into a rebel. You have suceeded to have found a cause :Defending Haiti.
You live in one of the poor neighbohood in Brooklyn and your chimere reflexes gave you up.
You are too vague when you said that you live in the affluent neighbohood of Manhattan.
Be more specific tell me where in Manhattan you live.
You can not bull sht a bullshtter.
You are too radical to antagonistic too much of a an agent provocateur to be a millionaire.
Go finish eating your dog food.
You might be onto something! I take everyone seriously, so I was giving him benefit of doubt but, looking at it from your new angle, there may be reasons to be suspicious.
I, however, would like to offer a little something in their defense. My family does considerable construction and remodeling business in greater Miami, and we deal with all people. Haitian customers have been truly exemplary in terms of paying their bills, job satisfaction, honesty and decency. We also employ a few Haitians and they are very dependable, hard workers [all legal residents, so they don't need to work for us if they don't want to] and good friends. I would like to give them a heartfelt thank you and let them know how much I appreciate their business and friendship. That's all.
I am now planning a trip to Haiti, then to Africa to continue with my humanitarian work crusade. I might make a stop in DR too to visit my Haitian brothers and sisters in the bateys just to let them know that help is on the way.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Check this one out, glomar:
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/....eave-Santiago-sectors-voluntarily
Any thoughts about this?
Thanks for link.
How could I forget such a recent article. Similar discussions to those in present article.
Haitian-Dominican relations presently very delicate. Don't know if deep-seated feelings I read here can be reconciled. Absorption of nearly two million immigrants very taxing economically and culturally, and resentment is inevitable. Problem compounded by past occupations/invasions history. Inciting comments from Haitian contributors to forum don't help, either. No easy solutions...someone else needs to execute effective plan to stabilize Haiti, foment economic development and effect repatriation of its citizens. This may be too heavy a burden for DR to bear and it is incumbent upon western world to step in and assist.
I CANT WAIT FOR ANOTHER TRUJILLO AND ROOT THEM OUT OF OUR SOIL THOSE INGRATE DESERVE TO STARVE TO DEATH LIKE THEIR COMPATRIOTS IN AFRICA.
CAN YOU GUY AT LEAST LET US CELEBRATE WHO WE WANT
I caught a Dominican in New York bragging how he is from the island of Hispaniola and he has French culture, But he didn't realize that I was Haitian and there was also a Porto-Rican friend of mine there. The Porto-Rican told him that "I know Haitians have a strong French influence in their cultutre and Haitians speak French, but not Domincans." The Dominican guy left all embarrassed because he was caught pretending something that he is not.
"The Free & Rational Mind"
1- Haitians saved the U.S. Revolution in Savannah, Georgia in September 1779.
2- A monument was recently erected in Savannah, Georgia to Honor Haiti.
Source/Proof:
http://www.haitianhistory.org/photogallery.php?aid=15
"The Free & Rational Mind"
From: Dominican Republic
Cruz666 you are a liar! It was France who sent Saint Domingue troops (freedom guaranty after services) to Savannah to fight the British and THEY LOST THAT BATTLE AT SAVANNAH! CORNWALLIS KICKED THEIR REAR END! There was no concept of "Haiti" in 1779.
"
Greenwave why have you change your name ? again this is a very poorly attempted interpretation of facts you are part of the lunatic fringe that obviously believe aids not exist, imbecile like you never learn, how many books have you read on the subject ? pimp on this ..
"
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=110-h20070521-43
The Spanish, who had never given up a physical possession of Louisiana to the French, did so in a ceremony at New Orleans on November 30, 1803. And in a second ceremony December 20, 1803, the French turned Louisiana over to the United States.
I would like to also honor those brave Haitians who fought for American independence at the siege of Savannah, Georgia, in 1779: The Chasseurs-Volontaires de Saint-Domingue, a regiment of soldiers who formed one-tenth of the allied army before Savannah in the fall of 1779. This unit was comprised of over 500 free men of color from the island of Haiti an
the purpose of this forum is to share , to debate, to discuss informations conducive to a better understand of both nations and what could be done for them to live in harmony.
Hatemongers , ignorant people don t communicate , they don t post comments,they kill each other
Why can t you guys arm yourselves , train yourselves, learn how to handle a gun, a machete,and wait for the proper signal and start butchering and strangling each other.
Oh I see what what happens,you understand that there are not too mamy ignorant poeple like you in Haiti and in the Dominican Republic.
Oh you understand that most Haitians and most Domininacns are decent human beings and do not share your subhuman primate reflexes.
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cunical and absurd enterprise.
All you can do is to stick your fingers in yiour butt and type your sticking and igmnorant copmme4nts
the purpose of this forum is to share , to debate, to discuss informations conducive to a better understand of both nations and what could be done for them to live in harmony.
Hatemongers , ignorant people don t communicate , they don t post comments,they kill each other
Why can t you guys arm yourselves , train yourselves, learn how to handle a gun, a machete,and wait for the proper signal and start butchering and strangling each other.
Oh I see what what happens,you understand that there are not too mamy ignorant poeple like you in Haiti and in the Dominican Republic.
Oh you understand that most Haitians and most Domininacns are decent human beings and do not share your subhuman primate reflexes.
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cunical and absurd enterprise.
All you can do is to stick your fingers in yiour butt and type your sticking and igmnorant copmme4nts
Read instead :
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cynican and absurd entreprise.
All you can do for now is nurse your hate for each other,stick your fingers in your butts and type you sticking and ignorant comments.
I have never seen a buch of people so full of hate one for another, so weak, so erratic.
Thanks God it is only a few of you.
Read instead :
Oh you understand that you are alone in this cynican and absurd entreprise.
All you can do for now is nurse your hate for each other,stick your fingers in your butts and type you sticking and ignorant comments.
I have never seen a buch of people so full of hate one for another, so weak, so erratic.
Thanks God it is only a few of you.
"
You can lost a battle but no the war, your problem my Dear GreenF...t your feeble mind is not able to understand between strategy and tactic.
after the fall of savannah the The British has now entered the South to look for loyalist support. Many believe that this was the biggest mistake that Cornwallis had made as a General.
You are really the voice of reason on this subject. Very well-articulated commentary and right on target. Postings evolved into "three-ring circus", with many clowns clawing one another for the spotlight, with clearly nothing edifying or reasonable to contribute. Some of these contributors, in my humble opinion, are so ignorant and bigoted that they inflict more damage on Dominican reputation than drug trade and institutionalized corruption.
This forum was designed to allow Dominicans to reflect ,share opinions on the issues facing the Dominican Republic such as crime,drugs, domestic violence,corruption,and Haitian illegal migration.
What we have witnessed lately some hatemongers who despise each other have monopolized the site to trade insults.
I have met here posters with whom i have disagreements without being disagreable.
I would welcome their invitation to stroll down the Malecon and enjoy a Presidente or meet at a restaurant to share a sancocho.
We disagree but we are civil toward each other
I wish those who hate each other so much would have used a different forum where civilized posters are absent.
It may sound like a joke,lately the unusual names of some posters had triggered a bowel movement in me, see how disgusting they have became.
And the worst part .these idiots can not in any way shape or form influence the political future of Haiti nor the DR
We shouldn't forget history, but we should not take it as an absolute truth, at least not one book or one school of thought. If anything..
You just love to be confrontational. I know you can’t help it. Now you took the fight to NYC. As you know black American in NYC doesn’t give a thing about the Dominican parade as long they got their free project housing and welfare. Dominican parade will not take their stuff away. Now if it was a problem to the Jewish people then we got a problem with the parade but then again the mayor can't alienate the Dominican vote that is why he is the first one to march. Dreads please get it thru your head we Dominican are not one race as Haiti but we are many together. It doesn’t matter if a person is black white yellow brown because we believe only in our culture and our way of life. Get it we can’t fight the European because we are their descendant in a cultural, moral way. Para tu loquera ya.
History is not unbiased b/c people who write it are part of the conflict or the people who determine what is legitimate history (aka - the government) may only allow certain points to find their way into the textbooks that shape our minds.
Regardless of our understanding of history, It should not be used to legitimize hate and oppression. we should all struggle to build a society based on egalitarian principles, human rights, justice, and true democracy. Hate is used by those who benefit from the status quo to prevent dialogue and change...
I always point to places like UNIBE, which is one of our shining example of higher education, but how many students from poor barriors do you see there? or how many students of color do you see there? I can attest from experience (since I've taught there) VERY VERY few.
To take it to a potentially more controversial plane, what we need is to push for dialogue in order to identify these systemic factors that provide an advantage to a small percentage of the population, while leaving the rest in a state of economic and political precariousness. Not that the "system" is to be blame for everything, but it is a significant factor in preventing people from realizing economic success in the DR.
Keep the dialogue... it's very good. Just keep it civil.
please proffesor correct me in what aspect was i wrong?
Thanks. That was precisely the point I wished to get across.
exaclty
Lets not hide all these social ills under the rug, in the name of the fatherland. Plus it's in the Name of La Patria! The Fatherland, sounds too german or russian :-/ (Not that there's anything wrong w/ that).
cheers,
"As you know black American in NYC doesn’t give a thing about the Dominican parade as long they got their free project housing and welfare."
Actually, a lot of people think that about Dominicans and other migrants. And in some cases they are right. But painting in broad strokes like this, specially vis-a-vis a historically marginalized population does sound bigoted, and hides the fact that there are Tens MILLIONS - the vast mayority - of African Americans, Migrants, and working class people who are out there working, paying their taxes, following the rules... So when you say things like what you say, it propagates negative stereotypes.
Some of what you state makes sense to me.
I would like to extend those views to those presently attacking Josean. He has a different, provocative point of view on various subjects that some seem to vehemently resent. He articulates it well and generally provides supportive information. Look, you may disagree with him, but he is excellent at eliciting further discussions and arguments- which is part of primary reason why most of us enjoy this forum.
I propose that arguments about a "single" identity & culture work to mask the systemic inequalities, instead of providing the genuine opportunities for people to improve their Socio-Econmic Status (SES).
I know people who are poor, and the lack of opportunities and public services will cause their children to be poor, and their grand children to be poor as well. W/o a herculean effort to address these systemic issues, these vicious cycles will NOT be broken... And yes, we may need to provide...
Only through Introspection and social-critiques can we analyze and begin to understand some of the factors that produce the social ills we are plagued w/. But many oppose such efforts as revolutionary or anti-patriotic. But I propose, that it is our civic-obligation to question why is there such extreme inequlaity and poverty; why do we lack quality public services; why is there so much corruption... It is our right and duty!
are you saying that statement is wrong on majority of black american in new york. you want me to be political correct?
balsosia did you know 75% of black women are single parent and that even though black american make about 12% of the population they make allmost 40% of people incarcerated. is that racist? please tell me. It is sad but true. 7% of african american minor have a parent in jail. As you see those stat you will know that they will take more of the city resource in wellfare and housing and that is a fact. If you want me to leave it under the table as the pseudo black activist like sharpton and jackson instead of helping their community by confronting the problem they are the first one avoid it.
when i was searching for a house 6 year ago i had two choice either buy a brand new house in a african american majority neighborhood or buying a 100 year old beat up house in a white spanish neighborhood for the same amount of money. I chose the beat up house. i went for the overprice beat up house. will that make me racist? it is easy for you to finger point when you don't know the fact.
excellent post thankyou por darle catedra a baldosia
Anyhow, you're actually helping prove my point quite nicely. If non-whites are constantly be portrayed in such negative terms, what do you expect the psyche of young children to incorporate if not a biased/racist view? do you not see that? Let me point you to one of our renown living philosopher, Charles Taylor. He, like many others, posits that identity is formed in a dialogue. When that dialogue is negative, a negative identity emerges. And that's part of the systemic factors that discriminate against non-whites!!! Let me know if you're interested in such literature, I can send you over a syllabus w/ plenty of text on the topic.
As for your spelling, vacano, you really need to look at the key-board when you type my screen name. It's B A L D O R I A!
As for the poor and fertility rates - again, going off on a tangent. Have you considered the posibility that better health-services, education, and job opportunities for women will lead to lower birth rates? Briefly, women who work have less children; more educated women have less children; women w/ access to free contraceptives have LESS CHILDREN!!!
Letro, you're focusing on the consequences of poverty, not the ROOT CAUSES!!! Dig deeper, and ask WHY IS THIS THE CASE... Introspection & analysis that go behind the causes - in this case high fertility - will lead to root causes - in this case lack of public services.
Ok, I may check in later, but I'm out for no
i apreciated that.
you hit it right in the nail
"you tell the poor to stop having 6 children per woman, stop doing drugs/alcohol/smoking, and committing violence when thing don't go their way! Come down from you heaven brother!
it is like when you see mexican or african people with 7 kids and another on the way. i say to myself i got two kids, got a business my mortgage my wife working fulltime and sometime struggle. new york is very expensive. yet i see these people not even documented with seven kids living in bateyes (yes batelles 10 people in one bedroom). thank god these kids can apply for wellfare since they are american. for these kids there is no way out but to go into drugs prostitution violence. that is the way it is. yes letro that is the main reason la existencias de los pobres.
baldosia
please don't go there you look like an educated person. there is more spanish people than african american people in the usa yet spanish account for less than half crimes of african american. the problem go deeper they feel entitle. respected african american had been trying to deal with the issue like bill cosby and had been discredited by the so called "black activist".
BTW, our republic and constitution are based on principles laid out by Locke, Mill, Rousseau, among others- most were foreigners. So let me get this straight, if a foreign social scientist finds a better way of analyzing social problems, you would reject him b/c his not Dominican; is that what you're saying? Since when do we have a monopoly on good ideas? And since when is the DR the social paradise that we can't consider some social introspection?
Letro, take a step back and have a broader view of li
From: Dominican Republic
There are posters here that want to implant foreign models to our model that have been molded around our traditions and history! Please keep your foreign values and culture at your doors when you come to DR! Stop using somebody else's binocular when looking at Dominican problems (Please use our Dominican binoculars that are shaped and Dominican realities"
Greenwave you are being untruth to the forum by hiding your identity and second your location you are living in the united states, with respect to your quotation, I congradulate you-- that finally you were able to compose your argument WITHOUT infringement , please be more specific, do you have a name, what model are they trying to implant in DR ?, how does it goes again the mainstream wish of the population?, I have tried hard to follow your train of thought however you are all over the place and not coherent. cont1
Vacalao, you don't make any sense. You make spurrious claims and yell "Aha!" and leave the rest scratching our heads? Your comments are helping prove what I've been saying from the get-go, that warranted or not, the predominating views of historically-marginalized people tend to be negative, and that this negative views has deleterious implications on the future prospects of said people, and thus we need to consider ways of addressing these detrimental systemic factors that sustain inequality in our society!
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio, I think I am coherent, -- monochromatic, I have no phase lag, and my amplitude is real-(wave language)!
"
Well beauty is on the eye of the beholder, I stand corrected, you just did it again-- you may want to become a rap artist by throwing incoherent word in and there loosely meaningfull as long they rhyme just to appear intelligent. Thanks but no thank you leave this for your charlatans ie francCarlos, vacanos, Gizomo, arkatype.
I have debated you before.. and you know who is going to have the last word, you are my natural enemy, I honestly do not like you
.
From: Dominican Republic
"Baldoria I think you meant "better way of mitigating social problems" instead of "analyzing" since solutions and implementations are key to DR! No more philosophy (a day dreaming act). All solutions must include and considered (respect) Dominican history, culture, and traditions! And that includes foreign solutions! As long is compatible with Dominican values, It is up to the people of DR to accept a foreign solution!
Read Jared Dimanod "Collapse" Penguing Books 2006, page 329-357 or Jeffrey D. Sachs, "The End of Poverty" Penguin books, 2005.
"
It's a good, never too late to start giving credit where it's due. cheers good night !!
are you a commie?
Letro, haven't you notice that social justice is what we (DOMINICANS) are longing for? if anything, your rubish about tradition and keeping people enslaved in poverty and inequality is the biggest betrayal to the liberal principles of our Patria! Furthermore, wanting to change the constitution is not a radical idea, look we're even changing RIGHT now! and we changed it in 2002, and 1994, and several times before then. You see, change is nothing new, and unpatriotic ideas like yours in vilifying critiquing the status quo is censorship... are you a commie? or worse, a republican?
it was a simple question no reason for you to be on the defensive or to give an explanation as to why you are a commie. the reason i asked was to see who im argue with since you are sounding like a true lenilista with your lefty analisy on the poor.
amigo el sistema capitalista con una sociedad abierta es el mejor sistema del mundo en trato con los pobres. deja de buscarle pata al rabo with your social justice si al pobre en este sistema es porque esta gente no tienen ambition o le falta motivacion para buscar educacion.
There is a consensus to investigate Bush for kidnapping the democratically and constitutionally elected president of Haiti Jean-Bertrand Aristide, for going to war with Iraq based on lies and for other matters as well. The Haitian-American Lobby Group Has successfully persuaded American Lawmakers in the Democratic Party, particularly the Black Caucus. With Haitian-American Patrick Gaspard as White House Political Director, things are moving smoothly.
President Obama is open to the idea. Senator Patrick Healy, Congresswoman Barbara Lee and other lawmakers agree to launch the investigation ASAP.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Video Proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaTcSLF4hE
Read also the Bill that was introduced in Congress:
http://www.haitiaction.net/News/HA/2_5_9/2_5_9.html
why do you keep posting about haiti in a dominican forum. by the way if it is true bush kidnapped the rat of aristide that was the best thing bush did in foreign affairin 8 year.
The topic is "Black History Month" and Haiti represents Blacks worldwide.
"The Free & Rational mind"
Moreover, reducing extreme inequality and poverty and providing quality public service is what the World Bank, USAID, IMF, UNDP and many of the other international organizations call for. So, again, unless you consider these organizations marxists, I think you've missed what marxism truly is.
It's neither here nor there. Many people like to label progressive liberal thought as "commie" w/o really konwing what their talking about or that these are the foundations of democracy.
From: Dominican Republic, Colonial Zone Isabela la Catolica [formerly] Calle Comercio
US racial acceptance of latinos in USA from todays NYT....http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/us/16hispanic.html?th&emc=th
"
Thanks for the posting GC this is eye opening, it's unfortunate I am against all sort of injustices anywhere, let's hope some our delusional posters will take notice, they know whom they are.
I read the New York Times article "Day Laborers Are Easy Prey in New Orleans". I am saddened by the plights of the Hispanic immigrants in New Orleans and appalled at the way Black Americans treat them. As an activist, I'll make sure I add my input and contribute my know-how to alleviate the suffering of these immigrants.
I am even more profoundly touched because I am Haitian-American and I know how Haitian immigrants are mistreated in the Dominican Republic.
These despicable criminal acts should be severely punished and the police force there should be investigated for allowing these rampages to go on.
"The Free and Rational Mind"
Let's quit holding our noses in the air about the evil Northerner as though our culture's racism is leaps and bounds above theirs.
USADR responds:
I would argue that it's a natural reaction by Dominicans to 'hold their noses in the air' when they confront the arrogance and ignorance (of our culture) by Americans exporting their AfroSaxon racialist imperialism. . There is no one arguing that DR is a perfect society immune to discrimination, this is unreasonable because there is no such thing. But let's not even dare compare the cultural racism in the USA to DR because it's simply no comparison. The fact that we had black presidents in a time when slavery still extisted and the US slavery had only recently been abolished should speak volumes.
At the end of the day the US society has produced the most influential leaders of the African Diaspora, and from the US have emerged black cultures that are mimicked the world over from Europe to Asia to Africa itself.
USADR responds:
Agreed, the US has produced the most influential leaders be they white or black. American culture is mimicked period, they are the worlds superpower. There is no monolithic 'black' culture or people, SubSaharan Africans view any 'black' American culture as American. African-American, but American nevertheless. I don't know where you're going with this.
Bizarre racial schemes are all bizarre, whether it is ODR or colorism they are still both bizarre systems of supremacy. Sure the US had Jim Crow but the Spaniards also had their Codigo Negro Carolino.
USADR responds:
1. USA had ODR/Hypodescent, society had a bi-polar view of 'race', the ver word mulatto was taken off the census. In the USA a person who could pass as white in Europe would be socially black. Race was destiny, there was no escaping the institutionalized racism. Ku Klux Klan, lynichings of blacks, etc.
2. DR's society developed in a color spectrum, class>race.
There is simply no comparison.
From: United States
Anyone that thinks black american hate themselves, is suffering from a very grave misconception. We just say, say it loud we are black and we are proud!
^
USADR responds:
This is exactly the type of arrogance I'm speaking about. Where do I begin?
1. Brown paper bag test.
2. The historical saying " white is right, light allright, black stay back"
3. A club in Detroit recently got in trouble for having 'light skinned only nights'
4. The overrepresantation of lighter skinned AA's and non-AA/non-white women in black fashion magazines, music videos, models, etc. Just look at BET's female hosts, one was a very light skinned AA woman, then a Dominican, then a Honduran. Latinas are all over the place in black magazines, videos, etc.
5. Studies correlating socieconomic class with colorism in AA society.
Fine you can hold your nose in the air. My purpose throughout the above was as always to argue against demonization of black American discourse as though it offers NO perspective or insights of value to the Dominican experience, or as though the absence of a similarly rigid system expiates Dominicans from needing to consider history through racial lens as one part of our story.
if the way to defend the stat i gave you is for you to keep insulting me keep it up is not bothering me.
had the usa not intervened with aristide and the salvage would had slaughter him all the haiti would had suit the usa for not doing nothing. you cant pleased these people. we are feeding them and they keep attacking us.
I am a US raised Dominican (came here when I was 2 years old). I went to school with, dated and grew up around African Americans, I have no problems with African Americans and respect their history and what they went thru. My pet peeve is when I come across forums where some posters try to hypocritically demonize DR using the race card. They display no real understanding of it's history or culture. For some reason, DR is singled out as having sometype of grave 'racial problem' while they portray themselves as sometype of idealized groups. In real life I've never heard or seen any of the things I read on various forums,
From: United States
gizmo
had the usa not intervened with aristide and the salvage would had slaughter him all the haiti would had suit the usa for not doing nothing. you cant pleased these people. we are feeding them and they keep attacking us.
"
Vacanos what are you feeding them dirt cookies ? can you for once say something that make some sense. por dios.
the people beating and robbing these poor undocumented in new orleans are "los morenos" describeby the mexican in the NYT or african american in english. no surprise here they are the most undesirable and then when they get arrested they play the race card. i like my fellow dominican got our first glimpse of these people in high school in new york when they used to jump on us in group in the 80 and early 90 as we were first generation dominican spoke no english easy target for them at the time. we then learned their game and holded our ground everytime and defended other spanish targeting by them.
the people beating and robbing these poor undocumented in new orleans are "los morenos" describeby the mexican in the NYT or african american in english. no surprise here they are the most undesirable and then when they get arrested they play the race card. i like my fellow dominican got our first glimpse of these people in high school when they used to jump on us in group in the 80 and early 90 as we were first generation dominican spoke no english easy target for them at the time. we then learned their game and holded our ground everytime and defended other spanish targeting by them.
yes we gives them free housing, medical (we now learning haitian women going to dr to use their hospital to give birth, actually the haitian are the only people basically using public hospital since most dominican now using private clinic) jobs so they can take food back to their country. you are too proud now you can't admit what dr doing for the haitian.
Are you sure about this? Cuz' last time I saw, the majority of people going and staying at the Dario Contreras and the Plaza de la Salud (to mention two public hospitals with the most demand) looked very dominican to me.
i said most dominican using private clinic and i stand by that statement.
excellent post. thankyou.
nobody was more happy than aristide to leave the country knowingly his day were counted inside haiti but now he is safe to show the "poor" people that he is a macho man going against the goliah in the USA, he will be perceived as a martyr. what a poor ingrate. my only hope when the UN leave haiti and allow them to govern by themselve and when another coup de tah lets all hope the usa don't lift a finger lets see who are they going to blame this time. i bet the black caucus will be the first one to open an investigation why the usa waited so much to get involved.
Dominicans can't stand BLACKNESS... they loathe black african dna. DESPISE it. I don't know any black Americans that have or will have anything to do with Dominicans, they're seriously poisioned with self-hate. Look, when you have someone a shade and a half lighter than soot with tightly coiled hair always talkin' about how mixed to the max they are, yet, they look like Wesley Snipes with Jay Z's face and shyt.. you just gotta shake ya head and walk away. I have NEVER met an Dominican of obvious black african genetics that could stand him/herself , LOL.. I'm serious!
My brother's girlfriend is Haitian with BEAUTIFUL, very dark smooth skin. She's GORGEOUS and extremely smart. And very secure in her skin
so, gizmo, and vacanos, go there and play.
about time you show up with your racist comment. when i give stat im not talking about sterotype. when 75% of black women are single mother or baby mama that is not stereotype when black make 12% of the population and make up the majority in prison that is not sterotype. 7% of african american minor have parent in prison that is not sterotype. dread dominican people are the most sucessfull immigrant in new york. we got he most business and the most people sending to colleges and graduating from the police dept.
Dreadlocks sorry to burst you're bubble but i dont fall into the black category, so no! i don't need to give thanks to the black civil rghts leaders of the past. That work was done to help Black Americans like you, gain acceptance in this Anglo-White American dominated society. I was not even born when these circumstances were occuring
nobody asked you to give thanks to anybody. it is not a thanksgiving festival, but an historical exhibition. as a matter of fact, i am grateful that you and your idiot fellow travellers plan to stay away. until science proves that your degree of idiocy is not contagious, you should restrict you activities to ventures like spray painting grafitti in subways...heck, come here , and deface the metro. as to your reference to me as Black Americans like you, you have no idea of who, or what, I am. my paternal lineage is from the British Isles, complete with family Coat of Arms.
From: United States
antonioj
yes we gives them free housing, medical (we now learning haitian women going to dr to use their hospital to give birth, actually the haitian are the only people basically using public hospital since most dominican now using private clinic) jobs so they can take food back to their country. you are too proud now you can't admit what dr doing for the haitian.
"
You are correct vacano I do not denied that, and lo agradesco a los dominicanos I was referring to your specific comment.
From: United States
".....
Obviously you guys can not read well, Dread was quoting from the the topix forum were some you belong. Now you are resorting playing the race card in top of the Deck.
dominican got a monopoly in new york we own most auto repair, groceries, taxi company, supermarkets, restaurant, travel agency, hair/barber shop, bakery, ect.
dread is surprise to see how sucessfull dominican had been oversea it make him furious dominican refuse to work as slaves as haitian people working for food in dr.
haitian using the most public hospital now and their women coming to dr to gives birth.
http://www2.dominicantoday.com/dr....n-increases-in-Dominican-Republic
actually was born in santiago and raised until 13 until my father was displaced by haitian program work for food my father refused and emigrated to usa.
lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllhahahahahahahahahahahahlollllllllllllllllllllhahahahahaha
from brooklyn to the bronx try to go to as much autor repair the majority are dominican the same go with the taxi company you cant let your hatred consume you as to making idiotic statement.
yes i been to atlanta and seen with my own eyes black getho living the same as in new york housing project. and how the white treat them in the dirty south. the dominican community in atlanta is growing fast we are making stride there too.
I'll only leave you with the following numbers:
- Did you know that, for a dominican to live comfortably with his family, gringo style on Santo Domingo city, he/she needs to have a monthly income of about US$700?
- Did you know that the majority of the dominican population is earning monthly less than US$200?
Given the numbers above (and the fact that the abovementioned people lacks any type of medical insurance whatsoever), how the heck do you have the guts of telling me, someone that lives on the island 24/7 and 365 a year, that the majority of dominicans are using private clinics more than the public hospitals? ¿Pero es que te estas volviendo loco, mi hijo?
gizmo and vacanos see what you did for us.
Who said that your posts in this forum are useless.
Sometimes we need to examine little brainless creatures and see what their purposes in life are
Just like earth worms recycle the nitrates fron fallen leaves and nuts and return them to the soil.,
They also dig small holes in then soil to facilitale the entry of oxygen to the trees roots by atmospheric pressure.
I have found a cure for my constipation
adios laxantes !
Viva Gizmovacanosenna
" Save the gizmovacanosenna"
" Save the gizmovacanosenna "
we are so proud of our spanish heritage it is our culture. we spent alot of dough building a resting place for christopher colombus. we are who we are spanish descendant that is our values come from. i hope haitian people feel proud of their african tribu like we do of our spanish ancestor.
since you rarelly go to nyc. one advise dont go near project you might get shot. if you do make sure you are in a car dont walk thru project.
NOW WHERE IS THIS CLOWN COMING FROM. I HATE TO BREAK IT ON YOU BUDDY BUT DOMINICAN PER CAPITA MAKE $9,000US ACCORDING TO CIA FACTBOOK. A YEAR IMAGINE IF THERE WERE NO HAITIAN WORKING FOR FOOD HOW MUCH THAT FIGURE WILL GO UP.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....s/the-world-factbook/geos/dr.html
ALLWAYS WITH FACT BABY DISCREDIT HATER LIKE YOU
Obtain a stock of dried PEREJIL ,boil it for half an hour and dring a cup of this tea with honey.
Each night before you go to bed place a picture of the generalissimo with a long feather under you pillow and you will be able to feel confortable around Haitians.
It works but you need to beleive in me
when haitian been ungreatfull of the people who are feeding them making outrageous statement about dr we have a right to defend our land and our integrity. if people here don't talk about haiti we won't talk about haiti but you guy are in love of making fight and allways have to put gas into the fire. you know this is a censitive issue and all of you haitian trying to get under our skin.
From: United States
dread
we are so proud of our spanish heritage it is our culture. we spent alot of dough building a resting place for christopher colombus. we are who we are spanish descendant that is our values come from. i hope haitian people feel proud of their african tribu like we do of our spanish ancestor.
"
Vacanos are you for real man, Lautaro how do you explain the behaviour and the irrational of your country man that grow up in the USA, where free thinking and creativity is encouraged.
eres mas terco que una mula
when haitian been ungreatfull of the people who are feeding them making outrageous statement about dr we have a right to defend our land and our integrity. if people here don't talk about haiti we won't talk about haiti but you guy are in love of making fight and allways have to put gas into the fire. you know this is a censitive issue and all of you haitian trying to get under our skin.
it is obvious you havent been to nyc in year. most of the auto repairt in nyc are owned by dominican.
it hurt 9,000us per capita. ouchhhhhh and now to discredit you are now saying it is disproportionate. lol dime otro bolero. dominican rep have the biggest economy in the caribean and centro america. ouchhhhhhhh
when you can't beat fact resort to personal attack not unusual.
From: United States
antonio
when you can't beat fact resort to personal attack not unusual."
Please list the facts that you are purpoting to Vaca
do you want to silence me?
page up and click my link. dread knew he cant discredit the source that is why he had to resort at personal attack like you
From: United States
antonia
page up and click my link. dread knew he cant discredit the source that is why he had to resort at personal attack like you
"
You are right my humble apology, tienes la razon
382 posts.
.
Under international law, diplomatic missions enjoy an extraterritorial status thus, although remanining part of the host country's territory.they are exempt from local law and in almost all respects treated as being part of the territory of the home country.
They are also exempt from the bigotry, racism, and the intolerance of the host country.
United States happen to have a African American president and they are trying to senbilize the progressive and sophisticated Dominicans of the contribution and the sacrifices of the Blacks to make the United Stated a magnet for all of those including Haitians and Dominicans who are fleeing poverty and political persecution.
Having said that the black history monthe is being celebrated on american territory (The US Embassy local)
So why wasting time explaining that the good life that we immingrants are enjoying now was made possoble by the sacrifices of the blacks
I hope they will find a place in their conscience to recognize the sacrifices of the black man to make these US the magnet for oll the opressed and the hungry and those seek a better life.
This is why we celebrate black history month.
vacanos gizmo goulet , next time you devour that hamburger remember black history month.
Plase do not post anything stupid or ignorant,
i have challenged you conscience,let the informations sink in and be a real man.
apology accepted amigo
my point from the beginning had been it is not a place for dr. you have your opinion i have my opinion.
From: United States
Next Frebruary when vacanos, gizmo,goulet
"
Why are you naming Goulet in there, Etiennc you have made several comments about him in the past...I have been reading your postings....... unless you can point to me anyone of Goulet's posting where he has been deliberately prejudice, otherwise you need to redraw these comments. Come on let be fair.
From: United States
etienc
my point from the beginning had been it is not a place for dr. you have your opinion i have my opinion
"
Vacanos, you are missing the point, the embassy is a sovereign entity within DR territory and they can do that, however Dominicans that share your opinion are not obligated to attend capich if you feel so strong you may want to start a protest or piquetting.
You will not be able to sleep tonight. it is going to be a fight between your ID and your Ego
your instinct and your sentiment (Dominican Today's posters)
your temperament and the character that we have instilled in you today
Free a last
oh God Almighty vacanos is free
ANTONIOJ VACANOS IS FREE
https://www.cia.gov/library/publi....s/the-world-factbook/geos/dr.html
ALLWAYS WITH FACT BABY DISCREDIT HATER LIKE YOU
As Dread tried to get into your thick skull (to no avail, it seems), the US$9000 is only an average, which means that while some people are making huge profits (like the construction moguls and the politicos), others, like the rest of the population that you seem to ignore, live with less than the necessary to afford the basics of life. If the situation were as rosy as you put, why the heck your father fled to States, eh jerk? Are you so dumb to not recognize the fact that the capitalists that you're so occupied in defending are the first ones responsible for the presence of the haitians in the country? (cont...)
laurato
don't you think the same can be said about other country in the world per capita. that statement make no sense since you will have to apply to everybody. second im not trying to give the rosy scenary as you stated im just giving out fact you do with it what feel. third i stated with all our problem it is remarkable that our per capita is 9,000us. yes my father left and i dont blame him under the circunstance at the moment it was a no brainer. im a realist usa give the most opportunity to its people. on your final point all the dominican making a better life in the usa are not jerk. i believe we live in the best system of the world. im a realist i dont fault the usa because our scumbag politician value a few centavos over their homeland.
laurato you have to come here and experience this way of life and the oportunity its offer to the people. you dont see many ingrate out there talking bad about the usa.cont
like the usa today ordered 30,000 haitian to leave the country. it is the usa right to excersise its law plain and simple. please dont go saying usa against immigration because that is not true the same go to dr we just want to be legal.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/AP/story/906319.html
do you know a immigrant cannot open his own business in most european country unlike the capitalist usa where if you have the dough as you wish. how can you compare such small country to the country that started all. $47,000us for a country of over 300 million that is remarkable and also put into account many people report less to avoid paying more taxes. if you ask anybody those country u mentioned are what the size of dr and probably a few million people. you dont know what you talking about even the ilegal here get a piece of our resource. imagine the people who are unemployed but are legal.
"Luxembourg and Norway, have a GDP per capita greater than the one of the US, the one from Norway being US$102,524, Luxembourg being US$81,730, while the US one is US$47,025."
I wanted to stay away from these discussions because of the personal nature they have taken. However, your comment above regarding the "Grand Duchy of Luxembourg" compelled me to join in. I have an office in Bascharage, Luxembourg and am familiar with the rather small country.
You make a rather unfair comparison based on GDP, as you neglect the rather significant cost of living differences. Home ownership is out of reach for many workers, and they are practically forced to live in nearby France [Longwy, Metz, etc.] or Belgium [Arlon, etc.] or Germany [Trier, etc.]. Taxes, clothing, dining, fuel and just about everything else is also appreciably more expensive. In the end, the GDP differences might prove insignificant.
That's precisely the reason why I put those two examples, to show our uninformed friend here that GDP is more often than not an inadequate indicator to look at when examining about the well being of a country, that he should not let himself be misled by the rosy pictures that the politicos might draw of the country when making political campaigning on the big apple. That while a lot of politicos, engineers and touristic moguls might be making some killing profits, the vast majority of the population of the DR is barely making ends meet at the end of each month, lacking things that people living in the US and other developed societies take for granted, such as medical insurance, adequate medical facilities, a competitive education system, electric system, potable water and security to mention some of them. Heck, insecurity in SDQ is such that, if things keep going as they do, it will soon surpass Caracas as the murder capital of the Americas.