from the New York Times archives http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/20....l?scp=9&sq=juan%20marichal%20,john%20roseboro&st=Search..............The invasion from another perspective this piece was written 8 years ago

Col Palmer - I think you're off by at least three ranks. The officer pictured in your caption is Lieutenant General Palmer. I believe a simple review of the picture shows the three stars he's wearing both on his collar and helmet. It is precisely because of simple errors like this that I took the time to write your staff some months ago to point out that while I enjoy reading Dominican Today, the content is getting increasingly sloppy and mediocre. After all, the link between the DR and the English speaking world is such that you should certainly have access to a staff that not only checks for factual accuracy, but can put a sentence together where subject and verb agree. If a poor Cibaeno like me can figure it out -- such a task should be a breeze for the host of young people in the DR that are multi-lingual. I recognize this is not the medium to address this issue -- but since I've emailed your staff to no avail, I figured the medium is as good as any to provide my input.

Hear hear

That is the biggest problem facing the entire country. In the DR there is no difference between doing something and doing it well.

Tongue lashing deserved and accepted...

left wing students is not the way to go when it comes to censors and moderators .They need more instruction and impartiality a even hand is important to a free press

they are listening ....Wow

Montesino:

My thoughts exactly. Well said!

Amazing, a Dominican didn't just blame it on another guy or odderguy:)

Amazing, a Dominican didn't just blame it on another guy or odderguy:)

Amazed and happy to see you taking the critism and accepting the blame. Great start. You never relize you have a problem until it is acknowledged and accepted as true.

thank you CIA if it wasnt for you this all couldn't of been possible.

LBJ is a criminal. Juan Bosch was a democratically elected president!

Yes fast eddy from Lemster we know if you say so Just dont say that to anyone who knows anything about Civil Rights Legislation in the USA because LBJ was with Lincoln the most important president in US history

"LBJ is a criminal. Juan Bosch was a democratically elected president!"

Agreed. How LBJ acted with the domestic American population is of no concern to us as far as this issue is concerned. The thousands of dead civilians left by LBJ's marines is. Let's not forget how LBJ recieved troop support from Stroessner's Paraguay, the militatary dictatorship then in power in Brazil, and the military dictatorship then in power in Honduras. Strange bedfellows indeed.

Juan Bosch was a Castro agent bent on establishing a communist government in the Dominican Republic. Fidel Castro had many communist sympathizers in the countryside, including leftist training camps. Just look at Cuba now, thousands of political dissidents in prison, thousands of desperate people swimming to Florida and an average yearly income of less than two Hundred Dollars. If you think things are bad in the Dominican Republic, then you only have to look at Cuba, the economic basket case of the western hemisphere. Juan Bosch was just a corrupt politician and not the social revolutionary that the Dominican press make him out to be. Fidel Castro is reported to be worth over one billion dollars with the money he has stolen from the Cuban people. Juan Bosch surely would have followed in Fidels footsteps.

Written by: cibaeño75, 28 Apr 2009 3:57 PM
From: United States, New York City
"LBJ is a criminal. Juan Bosch was a democratically elected president!"

Agreed. How LBJ acted with the domestic American population is of no concern to us as far as this issue is concerned. The thousands of dead civilians left by LBJ's marines is. Let's not forget how LBJ recieved troop support from Stroessner's Paraguay, the militatary dictatorship then in power in Brazil, and the military dictatorship then in power in Honduras. Strange bedfellows indeed.....Ciby everyone cant have pals like Chavez and Fidel and Danny the Diddler and the rest of that bunch Strange Bedfellows indeed

I think all you "left-leaners" need to take a good long look at how governments under people like Chavez, Castro and their ilk operate.
Want to be put in jail just because you might disagree with the way things are handled? Want to be publically castigated and isolated because you happen to believe that everyone has the right to speak their minds?
Take a look at the way things REALLY operate in Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba and a couple of other countries that have extreme socialist gobernments and maybe you'll change you mind.
There isnothing really wrong with socialism except the way it is implimented and operated.

Political philosophy aside, it is the governments manner of dealing with internal problems that seperates philosophy from reality.

THINK ABOUT IT AND READ ABOUT IT. Don't listen to high flighty words of those who are at the top.
That applies to any government, regardless of the economic philosophy embraced.

TexasBill

":Written by: FredCDobbs, 28 Apr 2009 9:20 AM
From: Mexico, Sierra Madre
Hear hear
"
Take care of yourself, watch out for the swine flu. Did someone kiss a hog or eat raw pork meat

tonyj I am old enough to remember the flu epidemic of 1967 the " Hong Kong " flu The first symptoms were you woke up in the morning with a tremendous desire to iron your shirt .That was a joke from a Johnny Carson monologue of that time .Besides up here in the mountains mining for gold we dont worry about those things we worry about banditos posing as Federales without badges hahaha We have all kissed a few hogs in our day ! Right amigo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGcVhoHdRFo&feature=related

Declassified papers reveal that both Johnson and Kennedy were pricks when it came to the DR, Bosch's legacy isn't porking mafia molls, or having the largest farm in Texas....

"Juan Bosch was a Castro agent bent on establishing a communist government in the Dominican Republic. "

Prove it.

"I think all you "left-leaners" need to take a good long look at how governments under people like Chavez, Castro and their ilk operate."

Who are these so-called "left-leaners" TB? Invading a country without provocation? A criminal act, the worst of crimes as established by the Nuremburg trials. No need to belong to the left or right to see as much. Fact is not one poster came on here touting any form of government, communist or otherwise, only lamentations that a DEMOCRATICALLY elected president couldn't finish what he started because of criminal reactionary forces, both domestic and foreign. Stop obfuscating the issue with anachronistic labeling tactics.

we know who the left leaners are dont we ?

For those that have forgotten, J.F. Kennedy did not recognize the de facto government of the triunvirate after Juan Bosch was deposed. Even though the US embassy, CIA and military
attaches during Kennedy had a free hand to conspire against Bosch, but they were not part of the state department guidelines.
Juan Bosch was overthrown in September 25, 1963, Kennedy was shot November 22 nd, 1963 and a few days later the de facto government in DR was recognized by then President Johnson.
The US invasion set the country back at least one generation, and put in power in 1966, through some rigged elections the neotrujillista regime of Balaguer backed by the old Trujillo generals, pro US business elite, and right wing zealots.
The US aggression and unilateral decision to invade "to save lives" caused the deaths of over 20,000 civilians and military during and after the revolt of 1965, from the constitutionalist side.

"we know who the left leaners are dont we ?"

Anyone who's left leg is shorter than their right one.

LBJ did the right decision.DR has many US interests .Leftists reicived a strong reaction from uncle Sam .It's history who are the heroes?LBJ administration give to US the victory over Castro friends.JFK failed in Cuba .A square place must be dedicated in honor of LBJ. Just an idea .DR will receive more american turists.

agibus watch out you will be lynched by the revisionist lefties ....trying to scratch out a little dignity in their position

Take some time to look over declassified materials at the Kennedy library in Boston or the online US "State Department Foreign Relations Series" and you'll realize Bosch was no communist but had "left of middle leanings" that talked about such things as redistribution of wealth. Not a bad political platform since at the time 95% of the country's wealth was controlled by 5% of the populace along with other US interests. The US found Bosch not to be strong fisted enough to ward off commie infiltrators and therefore could not run the risk of having this democratically elected populist president being toppled. The US mantra was "avoid another Cuba" at all costs.

With regard to the photo caption above: "One of the occupation force's leaders, a liutenant general (not colonel) Palmer, at the grounds of the Hotel Embajador. (Clarification provided by the poster Montesino.)" It would read much better if written: One of the occupation force leaders, US Lieutenant General Bruce Palmer, standing on the grounds of the Hotel Embajador. (Clarification provided by online poster Montesino).

democratically elected president, in the dr? really..... buying your way in to office has nothing to do with this i guess........give away free motorclyles, lots of MUSIC, and DRINKS, $500 PESOS FOR YOUR VOTE...... come on guys.......

"democratically elected president, in the dr? really..... "

Really. Indeed Juan Bosch was just that...unless you can prove otherwise.

An interesting letter in the Australian Shooter Magazine this week, which I quote: "If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the past 22 months, and a total of 2,112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in Washington, DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. That means you are about 25 per cent more likely to be shot and killed in the US capital, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the US, than you are in Iraq.

Conclusions: One - The idea of gun control is Bull and, Two - The US should pull out of Washington."


PS - Look for this info in the nation's media......yeah...right !! Happy Anniversary

Cibaeno75 & generoso;

As I read over your continuing false reports on theevents of the "invasion" of theDR by theUS AND OTHER LATIN AMERICAN STATES, I find that you have skewed the facts way ourt of proportion.
It is prima facially evident that Bosch was laying the groundwork for even more "socialism" by his immenent "Land Reform" and industrial nationalization policies.
The "revolution" was begun by the "Watchdog" element of the Armed Forces stationed at that airbase just outside of Santo Domingo and had developed into a shooting war between the elements of that unit and a public element armed by Bosch, thus placing foreign inhabitants of the Capital in grave danger created by the crossfire between the two elements.


Cont'd below

the truth will not set them free they wallow in victimhood

Because of this element of danger to US and other foreign nationals in the area, the US Ambassador requested intervention by US Forces. That request was granted in the form of elements of US Marines from US Naval vessels dispatched to the area and from elements of the 82nd Airborne Division and various Special forces units.
During the insuing operation, some 6,500 civilian personnel were successfully evacuated from the combat salient onto thevessels in the Bay off Santo Domingo.
Elements from OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES who were part of the OAS entered into the picture, tho not as many as the US contingent.
As to combat related deaths and injuries, the figure you quoted at 20,000 is blown out of proportion by TENFOLD. There were some 2,000 combined deaths ond injuries attributed to theentire operation, amoung which were 13 Us deaths and 200 injuries and 20 other injuries reported.
Cont'd below

While you may dispute the statistics presented, they are, nevertheless, the official statistics of the "invasion" you so vehemently describe.
While I can symphatize with you over your obvious insult to the soverignty of your country, I simply cannot condone such false reporting of the facts that are known and published, and twisted in such a manner as to denegrate another soverign nation and it's policies and intentions.
FYI, had the US Government wished to do so, andahd been so inclined, the Dominican Republic would now be in the position of being a sub-state of that nation.
Count your blessings, pal, that the US had/has no imperialistic leanings toward any country.
Instead, the US has been, and always will be, a nation of a giving population, in contrast to the "taking" nations of which the Dominican Republic is head and shoulders above all the rest.
You need to think a bit clearer about historical facts and less about social philosophy.

TexasBill

Fred;

Puling out of Washington is NOT THE ANSWER.
Eliminating the ULTRA-LIBERAL LEFT FACTION OF THEdOMOCRATIC PARTY is what must be done.
They are merely laying thegroundwork of eliminating the possibility/probability of an armed revolution when their secret agenda of socializing the US Economy is realized.
Along with that socialization, will come control of everyday lives, destruction of individual incentive and the dis-rule by the laws promulgated "for our own good".

May the Good Lord deliver me from the clutches of "DO-GOODERS"

I will not graze with all those sheep voluntarily, or at all.


TexasBill

Hear hear !

TB:
"It is prima facially evident that Bosch was laying the groundwork for even more "socialism" by his immenent "Land Reform" and industrial nationalization policies."

I see. So if the economic platform of an elected official goes against US sensibilities then let the dogs of war loose. You mention "land reform" in an insidious fashion, as if to suggest that there would've been land expropriation under Bosch when that would've been absolutely unnecessary seeing as how the biggest land owner when Bosch came into power was indeed the Dominican state by far for all of the Trujillo holdings reverted to the state after Trujillo's fall.

"The "revolution" was begun by the "Watchdog" element of the Armed Forces stationed at that airbase just outside of Santo Domingo and had developed into a shooting war between the elements of that unit and a public element armed by Bosch, thus placing foreign inhabitants of the Capital in grave danger created by the crossfire between the two elements."

That "watchdog" element you're reffering to represented the very forces that eliminated democracy on Dominican soil just two years before. They were not representative of the Dominican people in any shape or form.

cont'd

" ..governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." Thomas Jefferson

I guess, TB, Mr. Jefferson and his beliefs are alright for some but heaven's forbid that the "unpeople" of the world should take up his mantle.

TB:
"Elements from OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES who were part of the OAS entered into the picture, tho not as many as the US contingent."

Indeed, and as I pointed out above they were all dictatorships from the region that collaborated in said invasion.

"Count your blessings, pal, that the US had/has no imperialistic leanings toward any country."

Balaguer,the American puppet,came into power through bogus elections that were the direct result of this invasion and remained in power until called to task on other fraudulent elections by the Carter administration. Balaguer knew who his masters where and so do you TB.It suits the purpose of people like you that there be parts of the world that are the considered the "third world" because otherwise how would you land a decent female at your age? (yea, I said it.) Refrain from trying to dictate to us our history. We know it and we know it well.Your lies will not blot out our heroes or the courage displayed by the people in 65.

lefties and grassy knoll dwellers trying to rewrite history to their liking Tsk Tsk

"lefties and grassy knoll dwellers trying to rewrite history to their liking Tsk Tsk "

Prove otherwise.

Stop apologizing and living in the past ...your sources are really out there Ollie North of the left

"Stop apologizing and living in the past ...your sources are really out there Ollie North of the left"

You've wisely chosen to obfuscate rather than pick up the gauntlet I threw down...

I am beginning to think you dont know what a homophobe is....pick up your gauntlet and look it up also the word " Beaner " look it up and please stop trying to carry the culture on your back You are going to soil your stuffed shirt and dont call me numbskull again or I will cry to my mommy

you chickened out I see what a disingenuous person you are

Chickened out on what? What point that I made do you want me to clarify for you? Speak up man.

at least you did not say dude ! Self righteousness and self censorship goes with the pomposity you display in your remarks pathetic pseudo intellectual from the Saul Alinsky school of the " Lefty Wackos "

I wont change those remarks as you do you can cry to your mommy all you want

history is written by scholars and mine are better than yours You had better believe that

"at least you did not say dude ! Self righteousness and self censorship goes with the pomposity you display in your remarks pathetic pseudo intellectual from the Saul Alinsky school of the " Lefty Wackos " "

I never took up the mantle of "intellectual" so obviously if it's being applied to my person, psuedo or otherwise, it's coming from your end. Now again, what have I stated in this thread CONCERNING the events that lead up to and transpired in the 1965 US-lead invasion of the Dominican Republic that you feel is a falsification or need some crarity on?

"history is written by scholars and mine are better than yours You had better believe that "

History is an argument about the past. History is interpreted typically by scholars but one need not be a so called scholar to interpret facts as they are presented by the past. That's the difference between someone such as you and myself. You'll read a book and walk away with a whole new worldview. I'll read the same book and ask a million questions that I must answer before any of my thinking changes. You live in a world of orthodoxy which leaves little room for critical thinking. It's not entirely your fault, though. You are indeed a product of your times. Besides, if I'm to prove my point to someone such as yourself I would not resort to Chomsky and the like. Don't need to. There's plenty of material in mainstream sources that would back up ANYTHING I've stated on this thread. Again, what is it that you need clarification on?

to be so enlightened.... It is true youth is wasted on the young ? you will see when you grow up .The left wing lunatic fringe is inhabited with those wise ones like your self you must be a pupil of professor Ward or someone of that ilk and stripe.....Bottom line Bosch would have been steamrollered by the commies He could not have stood up to them .....and thats the way it is punto

"Bottom line Bosch would have been steamrollered by the commies He could not have stood up to them .....and thats the way it is punto"

I see that you have a crystal ball that tells you how alternative histories would've played themselves out....LOL..spare me and spare us. Again, you have wisely chosen to obfuscate by choosing not to tell me what you need clarification on.

ciby clarify all you want the reality is before you You are talking about wishful thinking or Monday morning quarterbacking whatever

"ciby clarify all you want the reality is before you You are talking about wishful thinking or Monday morning quarterbacking whatever"

LOL..that's precisely what you're doing! I have offered no alternative history for the DR had Bosch remained in power as have you and others. I simply denounced the process that removed him from power and those involved.