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JIMANI, Dominican Republic.- The Assembly to Revise the Constitution approved 166 votes to 27 the article of the bill on nationality, as the bicameral commission suggested, combining the concept of jus soli (by birthplace) and jus sanguinis (by bloodline).

The commission’s recommendation adheres to the agreement signed by president Leonel Fernandez and Miguel Vargas, the ex PRD party presidential candidate and virtual opposition leader.

It also rejected the conservative parties’ (PRSC, FNP) stance, which insisted on jus sanguinis.

Assembly president, Reinaldo Pared said that if the country doesn’t have a defined and energetic migratory policy, “the most beautiful text of the Constitution will be worthless.”

“The sons and daughters of Dominican parents are Dominicans," Article 16 states, and also "those who already had the nationality before the present constitution took effect" and "those who were been born in the national territory, except it if they would be children of members of foreigners of diplomatic and consular delegations or foreigners who would be in transit or reside illegally in Dominican territory.”

A person is considered in transit all foreigners defined in Dominican laws as such, and those “born abroad from a Dominican father or mother, despite having acquired, by birthplace, a nationality different from those of their parents.”

“Once reaching the age of 18, they will be able to state their will, before the competent authority to assume the double nationality or to resign to one of them," it adds.

Also " who will contract marriage with a Dominican, whenever they decide on the nationality of the spouse and are in conditions to meet the requirements imposed by law" and " the direct descendants of Dominican residents abroad" and “those who are naturalized. The law will determine the conditions and formalities required for naturalization."

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COMMENTS
76 comment(s)
Written by: El_Platano, 27 May 2009 7:50 AM
From: United States, Yonkers, NY
No citizenship to those born in DR whose parents are not Dominican citizens.
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 9:00 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
I see a loophole, read again,

Written by: snoopyy3k, 27 May 2009 9:33 AM
From: United States
Looks like they want to tackle the illegal Haitian issue.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 10:03 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
antonioj: "I see a loophole, read again,"

I already saw it, my friend, in the line: "those who already had the nationality before the present constitution took effect".

How the state is going to prove that who's a national and who's not on this category? Although I have some hints in how it can do so, I can't mention them here, cuz' they'd sound too stereotypical, and that wouldn't sit well with our politically correct moderator now, would it?

Written by: generoso, 27 May 2009 10:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
Lautaro
Say it Lautaro, say it, We do have limited and self censored freedom of speech in DT.
The lawmakers are making just another attempt to please all worlds, and be condescending to the ONG's again.
This proposal has obvious "lagoons" and loopholes, and the wording should be revised very carefully, and not in haste.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 10:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Well, it goes on the same line that the french use to grant their nationality, namely, anyone who wants to be a frenchman have to embrace "frenchness" and leave the culture of their country of origin behind, no strings attached. A parameter in which we could establish "dominicanness" would be the dominion of the spanish language and the practice of the catholic religion, or any other christian creed, for that matter.
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 10:24 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
laut lawmaker have a away of sticking it to you unless you read the fine print, nobody usually does read it. this ambiguity was left purposely, these boneless politicians will shift the burden to the court and at at the same time silence the ngo's. Let's praise ourselves with a stroke of a pen it appear that we have assume our responsibilities.
Written by: generoso, 27 May 2009 10:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
I would agree in the basic precepts of the law, and most surely in not granting citizenship rights to illegals, or descendants of those. But the law should be crystal clear and not liable for malicious and self centered interpretations.
They are purposely leaving these "loopholes' in effect, to be in the the grace of some advocates.
This shows the merchant nature of our lawmakers, and their lack of spine.
To become legal residents, not even citizens, they should take a course in DR history, language and customs, just like other countries. I would leave the religion issue out, because of the obvious humungous confrontations, this will cause.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 10:27 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
You don't have to tell it twice, my friend. Unfortunately, lawmakers in our countries tend to believe will be solved by reforming the constitutions as long as necessary, not realizing that it takes much more than that to advance a country.
Written by: Gizmo This user is banned, 27 May 2009 10:30 AM
From: United States
Haitian illegals and there children are not granted Dominican citizenship.
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 11:00 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Lautaro

Your are right in your statement about the "Dominicaness". Now if we all look back at the new constitution granting free education to all children even those residing illegally in the country. You could conclude that's the idea behind. I know many noticed the loophole that it has but if we look at it in a reality point of view how many Haitian in DR have the resources to fight a case like this in court. The question remains will there be new court fees and how much?
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 11:45 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Belly it's not the poor haitians with no resources that is going to challenge it, it's allthe organizations including the NGO's i am more for an amnesty up to 450,000 once they pass the "dominicaness" as stated by the general after that the law should be enforced fully, anyone without a valid visa. Should be deported on spot
Written by: Adrian29630, 27 May 2009 11:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera
Maybe a review of the original text "in Spanish" might be a good idea to fully understand what this actually says. The "English version" above in several areas doesn't make sense and looks like it has been translated using an on-line translator. Added to which quoting a "sentence", possibly out of context, can be very misleading
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 12:00 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"Written by: Adrian29630, 27 May 2009 11:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
"

I agree it;s not the first time DT would have sinned
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 12:08 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
antonioj

I get your point but as we all know the NGO may not agree with deportation on the spot as you say. This new law is probably going to make it clear which NGOs are on the island doing good and which are just taking advantage of the situation like Solaridad Fronteriza smuggling illegal Haitian into the country. I have stated my number before which is 170,000 which would leave run for growth at the rate that Haitians do but we have to find a solution quick to this growth problem which is one of the main cause of Haiti's problems. I say 1 kid per family for at least the next 40 yrs then consider after that.
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 12:47 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
belly you are living in lala land, your figure of 170,000 is ridiculous,and not attainable , unless you want to ethnically clean DR from Haitian remain. I am talking to pre-aristide number
Written by: agibus This user is banned, 27 May 2009 12:55 PM
From: United States
Laws are to create a new society of dominicans.
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 1:08 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
AntonioJ
belly you are living in lala land, your figure of 170,000 is ridiculous,and not attainable , unless you want to ethnically clean DR from Haitian remain. I am talking to pre-aristide number

You are entitle to your opinion and i'm entitle to mine. My question is where do you get the money to pay for a population of 450,000 with a grow rate of almost 6 child per family while illegals are still going to cross the border no matter what we think. This island is over populated as it is. If we go by your numbers next thing Dominicans would be a minority in our own country. What guarantee do we have that once the 450,000 are in that illegals won't cross the border to make it 3 million instead of the current almost 2 that are in now. Haiti has to find a way to reduce is population down. There is 20 million people on the island already almost twice as Cuba but their island is bigger. As this growth rate in 40 yrs we will have to start building houses where farm land are in place now
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 1:58 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Belly, I agree you are entitled to our opinion, I am simply pointing to the fact that it's PLAINLY wrong and unrealistic, Look I changed my mind and opinion many times, only a fool do not do that when confronted with proof,facts and valid argument, so let's not place the cart before the horse. heck the island is over populated I have been saying that for awhile. In cuba i am familiar a little bit every barrio have a family planning clinic and every girl in school by the age of 12 obligatory are inserted with iud or "dispositvo diu" . I am not aware of any program as such in the island.
Written by: DonManuel, 27 May 2009 1:59 PM
From: Haiti

My concern though is the need to avoid discriminating against black and honest Dominicans. This country should analyze the immigration issue beyond any other factor like race and origin. By the way, every Dominican must wonder : who is a real Dominican citizen???

I am wondering if the United States of America were stuck on these discriminations against immigrants, we would never have our first Hispanic-Latino Supreme Court Nominee, Sonia Sotomayor.

My question remains : Who is a real Dominican citizen???
Written by: DonManuel, 27 May 2009 1:59 PM
From: Haiti

Waoow, very tough time for the Dominican Republic. Hope this revision of the constitution, and this particular article won’t divide this country deeper.

Combining the concept of jus soli (by birthplace) and jus sanguinis (by bloodline) seems to me very hypocrite from these lawmakers and some extremist Dominicans. They need a clear stand on the immigration and race issues. Immigration and race are the sole raison d’être of this article.

I want you to remember that the master race of Adolph Hitler was based on hair color and skin to see if the people had an Aryan background of any kind. THE ODD THING WAS THAT ADOLPH HITLER DIDNT HAVE ANY ARYAN BACKGROUND AT ALL.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 2:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
There you go, always bringing up the race card from the bottom of the deck. Can't you just accept the fact that the DR is another poor Third World country and that, accordingly, it can't give itself the luxury of even trying to solve the problems of another poor country? or the fact that the DR is no longer your "Département de L'Est"? Although I agree on the fact that it would have been more advisable for the lawmakers to stand on one side or another, and not on this ambiguous juridical mumbo-jumbo that they have come up with. I expect this to be the source of lot of additional headaches for this country on the near future, cuz' our enemies won't stand idly on this.
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 27 May 2009 2:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
Pelegrin considera peligrosa actitud del presidente Leonel

El reclamo del primer mandatario dominicano, doctor Leonel Fernández Reina, ante la comunidad internacional, para que esta incluya a Haití, en sus organismos de deliberaciones, sigue encontrando reacciones adversas en sectores de la sociedad, sobre todo, en la clase política nacional. Ahora es el diputado, Pelegrín Castillo, dirigente de la Fuerza Nacional Progresista, quien cuestionó y tildó de “peligrosa” la determinación del jefe de Estado, de convertirse en vocero del Estado haitiano. Entiende eso significaría que estamos dando una disculpa, sin que tengamos que sentirnos culpables de la desgracia de ellos.
Aunque dijo interpretar la postura del primer ejecutivo, como parte de su estilo de hacer política, deploró que el país no tenga una posición mas firme con relación al pueblo haitiano y el grave problema que representa para la soberanía nacional. Aseguró que Haití es una nación en vía de disolución y que la d
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 27 May 2009 2:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
disolución y que la decisión del pueblo dominicano debe ser presionar a las grandes naciones, para que asuman su responsabilidad con dicho país, y no pretender que nosotros asumamos la pesada carga que ellos representan.
Cuestionó además, que esos organismos internacionales, de repente nos sacaran de la categoría de Estado fallido, posición en que hace unos años nos ubicaron, pero que lo hicieron de forma deliberada, para así justificar que estamos en condiciones de cargar con los haitianos.
En tal sentido señaló, que el actual gobierno carece de una política exterior, que ponga claro nuestra posición, de que los responsables de la tragedia haitiana vayan en su auxilio, ya que de ninguna manera, la República Dominicana asumirá los gravísimos problemas de los hijos de Toussain L’Ouverture.

Pelegrín Castillo aseguró, que el presidente con su discurso a favor de Haití, no responde en función de los intereses nacionales, si no, a las aspiraciones de grupos internacionales, que
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 27 May 2009 2:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
buscan tirar sobre los hombros de los dominicanos la realidad del vecino país.

En otro orden de idea, refiriéndose a los acuerdos a que llegara el presidente Fernández, con el ex candadito presidencial, del PRD, el ingeniero, Miguel Vargas Maldonado, opinó que el jefe de Estado tampoco obró en pro del interés nacional, ya que prefirió recurrir al acuerdo de aposento, en lugar de convocar a las grandes masas para que decidieran sobre los temas acordados.

Señaló que su partido esta analizando lo que han sido las alianzas con el PLD desde hace mas de una década, para decidir si terminar con la misma. Reiteró que dicho acuerdo puso en peligro la alianza entre estas dos fuerzas políticas, para los futuros procesos electorales.

Sus consideraciones fueron externadas, mientras participaba como figura invitada en el programa de La Semana, que produce y conduce el periodista, Pablo Mckineey, por Color Visión, cada sábado.

Por Alejandro Almánzar V
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 27 May 2009 2:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente

Asi mismo Pelegrin dale una pela e' lengua a todas estas lacras vende patria.

que en un futuro no muy lejano cuando el pueblo Dominicano se levante y haga de su voluntad, la isla temblara de nuevo y los machetes con doble filo reclamaran y proclamaran otra vez nuestra patria es DOMINICANA carajooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Written by: DonManuel, 27 May 2009 2:39 PM
From: Haiti

Waoow, very tough time for the Dominican Republic. Hope this revision of the constitution, and this particular article won’t divide this country deeper.

Combining the concept of jus soli (by birthplace) and jus sanguinis (by bloodline) seems to me very hypocrite from these lawmakers and some extremist Dominicans. They need a clear stand on the immigration and race issues. Immigration and race are the sole raison d’être of this article.

I want you to remember that the master race of Adolph Hitler was based on hair color and skin to see if the people had an Aryan background of any kind. THE ODD THING WAS THAT ADOLPH HITLER DIDNT HAVE ANY ARYAN BACKGROUND AT ALL.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 2:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
DM said: "I want you to remember that the master race of Adolph Hitler was based on hair color and skin to see if the people had an Aryan background of any kind. THE ODD THING WAS THAT ADOLPH HITLER DIDNT HAVE ANY ARYAN BACKGROUND AT ALL., blah, blah, blah".

Again, I ask: Can't you just accept the fact that the DR is another poor Third World country and that, accordingly, it can't give itself the luxury of even trying to solve the problems of another poor country? or the fact that the DR is no longer your "Département de L'Est"? Or, speaking plainly and frankly: can't you just accept that, simply put, THERE AREN'T ENOUGH BREAD AND BEDS FOR EVERYONE? Specially when part of that "everyone" on this island happens to have the dubious honor of having the highest fertility rates on the Western Hemisphere (having an average of 4.5 kids per family).
Written by: cyberdragon, 27 May 2009 3:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Adolf Hitler did not really care about blonde/blue for who is Aryan, that is just Jewi$h propaganda to devide even more the white people. In fact he was pretty much just for the German cause, otherwise he wouldn't have killed all those Russians.
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 3:10 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
AntoniJ

Thank you for making it clear. Here is a good example my great grandpa had 13 kids, grandpa had 9 my father had 6 and i have 2 and don't plan on having more. As you can see this is a trend that most Dominicans are following around and focusing more on quality of human we bring into the world by reducing family size and putting more into education. Thats what Haiti needs to start doing now and i mean right now. This island shouldn't be anything over 17 million people. We could go bigger than that but at the current state we can't afford it. Like Lautaro said there is not enough for everybody to have a good standard of living with basic needs and good nutrition.
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 27 May 2009 3:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
Always the same old argument from DT trolls
1st. The race card
2nd. Cheap haitian labor that somehow is the pilar of the DR economy
3rd. Dominican Prostitutes in haiti (taking the jobs away from haitian prostitutes)
4th. We need them more than they need us
5th. Any Domincan living illigaly anywhere is as bad as an illegal haitian living in DR
so on and so forth.
The truths they fail to explain:
1st. Why is Haiti historically a failed democracy.
2dn. How long is going to take for the haitian ledearship to stablish some kind of government.
3rd. Why is the Hatian political stablisment is so f*cking corrupt. ( 3rd most in the world)
4th. Why they assume the DR can handle the demographic tsunami that is flowing throug the border even as i type.
5th. The lack of patriotism and love for their country when it comes to their environtment and natural resources.
sooo sad and pathetic points of views that you'll have to consider the source before you reply to some of this comments.
Written by: DonManuel, 27 May 2009 3:58 PM
From: Haiti

My concern is broader than solving the problems of another poor country. It is a race and origin related issue. Lautaro, can the lawmakers guarantee that the rights of black Dominicans from everywhere, cocolitos (as), black/caribbean/dominican citizens will be respected? This is a deeper issue, Lautaro. The lawmakers need more work to reconcile the overall Dominican legal framework.

I want to repeat that this particular article on jus soli (by birthplace) and jus sanguinis (by bloodline) will divide the Dominican Republic deeper. It will be a discriminatory process of selecting who is or is NOT real Dominican. This race and origin based approach is very dangerous for the well-being of the economic and social stability of DR.

Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 4:09 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
DonManuel

You are trying to protect blacks and thats good but We as Dominican are trying to protect Dominicans whether they are black,mulattoes or white to our eyes they are all Dominicans. We are looking for a fair solution with not nick picking by colors or facial features.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 4:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
More dangerous for the well being of the Republic would have been to leave things as they were (jus soli), which would have forced the Republic to absorb as its citizens all the children that are born over here because of the lack of medical facilities on the western part of the island, which would have led to the bankruptcy of the state in the long run, cuz' the only thing that it would have been doing with the present rules is to serve as the escape valve for all the socioeconomic ills of Haiti, or as some economists like to say, it would have been "subsidizing poverty". As for the "rights of the black dominicans everywhere", you can rest assured that they're more than covered up, because, would you in your right mind classify the current political elites governing this country as white? Doesn't the fact that many of them (including our current secretary of education Paredes, and that vile agent of all that is evil on our Congress, Williams) hold many posts on the state (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 4:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
enough to dispel your (very out of place) worries? Besides, as Belly pointed out, the needs of the Republic today (when the country is overpopulated) are very different from the ones of a century ago (when the country didn't have its first million and jus solis was first implemented), so the reform of that article is something that was more than long overdue, in my humble opinion.
Written by: antonioj, 27 May 2009 4:29 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
"Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 4:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
DonManuel

You are trying to protect blacks and thats good but We as Dominican are trying to protect Dominicans whether they are black,mulattoes or white to our eyes they are all Dominicans. We are looking for a fair solution with not nick picking by colors or facial features.
"
I do not agree belly, do you remenber ? "all men were created equal" that was the prelude of the united states constitution, yet slavery persisted, unless fundamental change is brought forth,only the rich and powerful are protected, thus the constitution is worth only the piece of paper is written on. I do agree witih Laut is an out of place worries.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 4:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
I don't know why so many people like to compare us with the USA in order to justify the existence of jus soli, when the social, economic, political and cultural differences between both countries are enough to fill an abyss, among them:

1-USA: A continental, wealthy world empire; DR: Half impoverished, neo-colonial peninsular outpost.

2-USA: Total respect and enforcement of laws and regulations; DR: You don't want to know the story.

3-USA: Adequate environment for business and capitalistic practices; DR: The opposite (translating itself in an almost feudalistic/merchantilistic/paternalistic environment).

And a long etc. that is totally unnecessary and painful to bring forward.
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 5:28 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
AntonioJ
I do not agree belly, do you remenber ? "all men were created equal" that was the prelude of the united states constitution, yet slavery persisted, unless fundamental change is brought forth,only the rich and powerful are protected, thus the constitution is worth only the piece of paper is written on. I do agree witih Laut is an out of place worries.

Yes "all men were created equal" but if we start to nick pick who we help are we not going to be back in the same boat in 200 yrs where one race is on top another at the bottom. Anyways DR is got to many problems to be solve and this would be a subject that USA will have to work on. Now back to DR we need to find ways to reduce the population and improve the standards of living in the island.
Written by: Haitian4Life, 27 May 2009 6:49 PM
From: Haiti
Anyone born in the Dominican Republic is a Dominican by birth. Yes, even sons and daughters of illegal Haitians! In my view, only Haitian nationals who give birth in the DR would want their children to have a Dominican birth certificate and passport. Any other national would rush to their embassy to get a birth certificate and passport. One thing to remember though, your birth certificate and passport will always state your birth place. This is another way of showing the world how racist Dominicans can be.
Written by: Mik01, 27 May 2009 7:02 PM
From: United States
Businessmen will always like illegals, because they will want bigger profit. So, more haitians will come. The more haitians come or/and stay illegal, less bread and bed for low skilled legal and citizens Dominican.

While the dominicans cannot assimilate the Haitians, at least those that are already in place, and trully work together with them, Dominicans will be kept trapped by the haitians' invasion. Accept it or not, Haitians' presence in DM are too powerful now to try to control them by discriminative laws.

The good thing is that most haitians know about their strength and power in DR.
Written by: Haitian4Life, 27 May 2009 8:15 PM
From: Haiti
Ateo1992, you are so ignorant! You are making a fool of yourself. You can shout day and night all you want, you will never be able to get rid of all Haitians in your country, the same way that no one can get rid of all Dominicans in Haiti. My sister in law and her kids from Puerto Plata are well established here and will not go back. Now, they don't have a visa to stay here and don't need one.
Written by: Belly, 27 May 2009 9:39 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
letroudeballeGeneroso

Belly, there are 9.6 million people in Haiti and 10 million in DR that gives a total of 19.6 million people in the whole island!

Thats what we hope there is by the number but we all know how many people don't get counted on this census. I was a voluntary back in the 2000 census in San Francisco where the census still saying there is 320,000 but in reality 1000 of house have been build and people are living in it. My estimate for that city base on what i see it more like 400,000. and those are only thing i know just Imagen all around the island.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 10:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Haitian4Life said: "This is another way of showing the world how racist Dominicans can be."

You should really stop throwing stones when the glass on your ceiling is waaay thinner than in ours. Or are you forgetting that a 5% of your population (comprised mostly by mulattos and a handful of whites) are owning a 90% of the wealth produced in your country? While at the same time, the 95% remaining, comprised by the vast african majority, are dying by the thousands of hunger, disease, or gang violence? But no, we're so racist that we let your children go to our schools, let your pregnant women give birth on our hospitals, and generally do as you please on our country, ALL WITHOUT ASKING A SINGLE PENNY IN RETURN!! And you dare to call as racist?!?

You're like the cats, always trying to bite the hand that feeds you. Without us your country would have dissapeared a long time ago. (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 10:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
(cont...) so please, stop venting your hot air, cuz' your invoking the race card every time you want to blackmail us into getting something (be it territorial or citizenship rights) is really getting pretty old, worn and cheap, and more people are getting wiser as to the true nature of your petty nonsensical games. If we're always going to be considered racists by you, then we might as well play the part and push you ingrates out the country, cuz' with you the thing is always coming down to a "bad if we do and bad if we don't" situation. Why don't you ask your elites to stop robbing you blind and start building something with at least the appearance of a country? But no, you always seem to have testicular fortitude only when fighting against us, but not where it's truly required, that is, to fight the dark forces on the inside of your country that are keeping it down (and tha apparently will continue to maintain it so for the centuries to come). What is the reason for that, may I ask?
Written by: Haitian4Life, 27 May 2009 11:25 PM
From: Haiti
Lautaro, let me tell you how racist you Dominicans are. On December 27th, 1998, me and a couple of friends including a black american who had just graduated from FSU went to a club in Puerto Plata. My friend who has very dark skin, (African American) was denied access to the club.

Another instance, my mother in law took a bus to go Puerto Plata, she was traveling with her daughter in law who is Dominican and her nephew. At a check point, the police boarded the bus and asked all the dark skin passengers to show their passports. My mother in law who has light skin and 100% Haitian did not have to show her passport, but her daughter in law who was born in Puerto plata and who has dark skin had to show her passport. Is that racism or not?
Written by: Lautaro, 27 May 2009 11:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Again, do I have to remind you that, only by your atrocious distribution of the wealth, your country is a 1000 times more racist than us? Why don't you grow some balls and fight your dirty and good-for-nothing elite, which is the one keeping your country down at the end of the day?
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 May 2009 1:08 AM
From: Canada
Haitian4life,

My friend you're wasting your time with people whose brain has been replaced by "kk kalbas." Whatever you say and whathever you tell him, in any understandable language, will appear to him as egyptian hiergoglyphs. Can't you see that the pea soup brain always has a back door to escape whenever we cornered him. If this guy was a politician, he'd be the biggest liar among them all. What is pathetic, he dares adopting an indian as image motto. He simply forgot that the indians are the most honest humans on this planet and that they do not practice lies and dishonesty. Take as an exemple what he gave you as a rebuttal : nothing that can be compared to what you have told him. Leave the fellow in the dark my friend and let's move you and I toward the light for the sake of our people.
Written by: JRRubirosa, 28 May 2009 1:26 AM
From: United States, Port Washington, LI (New York)
Haitians like to manipulate information, They are full of BS and lack
stamina, fortitude and cojones; so far my full respect and honorable
admiration to Mr Etiennc that admitted irresponsability on his gover
ment behalf showing a samurai ethics code.

People like Etiennc give the Haitian people a honorable name the
rest bunch of whinners, complainers and mediocre people, once
again Etiennc my respect for your honorable and truthful opinions
so far.

Written by: Gizmo This user is banned, 28 May 2009 3:26 AM
From: United States
The Haitian state of mind D E N I A L !
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 May 2009 7:10 AM
From: Canada
You hateros, still don't get it because of your Wisigoth brain. As long as the moderator will allow it, nothing will make me happier than to trade insults and negative chatting with you. However, any
time you'd like to have a civilized exchange and dialogue, you'll find a good listener in me.
Do you think it's because it is a Dominican blog, you have the right to get on foreigners' back and trash them? You must understand that some foreigners live next door to you and they can hear everything you throw at them and respond accordingly.

Instead of sitting down together and try to solve our differences the same way our politicians are trying to do it, most of you are acting like school boys who want to settle their quarel in the yard on the off the class break time. I have never liked that attitude as a kid, and I am not ready to tolerate it as an adult. So, if you are full fledge men and adults, you better get rid of that ridicule attitude and embrass solideness and maturity.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 May 2009 7:30 AM
From: Canada
Mr Rubirosa says that haitians like to manipulate information. Well, Well! look who is talking. I've never heard haitians saying that their ancestors were Tainos; I have never heard haitians say that the Santo Domingo Citadelle was in Port-au-Prince in order ot attract tourists; I've never heard haitians say that Dominicans were the scums of mankind.
It's that kind of rethoric that shows your smallness to the eyes of the world. When you'l get rid of your delusion of grandeur, you'll appear much more real and natural, and you will be for sure more likable. For the time now, some of you make the great Dominincan people look so small and bad, that one risks to overlook it because he will need a microscope to see it.
The war is over for you fellows: your good friend George Bush and his Republican party have been soundly beaten. You can't enjoy their protection and sponsorship anymore. These are Haiti "friends" that are in power now, so, get over it and start a new chapter N.H.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 May 2009 8:00 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Oupala said: "Mr Rubirosa says that haitians like to manipulate information. Well, Well! look who is talking. I've never heard haitians saying that their ancestors were Tainos; I have never heard haitians say that the Santo Domingo Citadelle was in Port-au-Prince in order ot attract tourists"

For the Nth time, do you have any PROOFS backing any of your usual BS? Do I have to spell it to you? P-R-O-O-F-S, misie the absent minded, proofs. Is this word so foreign to your mentally challenged mindset? I know that it's too much for your microscopic brains to grasp, but I'll be gracious and repeat the questions: Why is it that you haitians only have testicular fortitude when bitching against foreigners? Why is it that you behave as sissies when someone so much as suggest you to man up and fight the dirty SOB's of your elite?
Written by: Lautaro, 28 May 2009 8:23 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
oupala said: "always has a back door to escape whenever we cornered him"

If someone needed a proof that you're indeed a mentally challenged hypocrite and coward, then this is the one, cuz' last I saw, the abovementioned tactic has always been your usual modus operandi (and the one of all your so called "intellectuals" it seems, just ask one called Steven Gehy about it) when confronted with the naked truth, namely, to evade the subject at hand and resort to bombarding people with hot air and all the fabricated lies that only a perverse mind can conjure, until the opposing party gets so muddled in them that it forgets about the subject that started the discussion in the first place. If that were not so, what was the reason then for your running like a dog with the tail between your legs when cibaeño and I demanded from you to show proofs to back your usual rantings and bitchings on the forum?
Written by: Pepe32, 28 May 2009 11:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic
f something is not done very quickly in 50 to 80 years what we know as Dominican Republic will not exist ,instead we would have a population very similar to the west and a destruction of our natural resources and not to mention that many in the "new" DR would consider Dessalines and other monsters as heroes instead of Duarte Sanchez and Mella. All the blood shed by valiant men and women of our country to rid us of Haiti would be in vain because the Haitians would have achieved their goal without firing a shot .In this case no other issue in DR matters because any modernization and improvement will be worthless if we lose the country and we become "Haiti Oriental" .In cases of great importance to the nation one that sits in the middle is just as bad as one who helps the enemy because complacency will produce the same results as actively supporting the Haitian invasion.

Written by: Pepe32, 28 May 2009 11:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic
I have seen Lautaro who used to try with all sincerity to reach consensus with the Haitian invaders in DT but he hit a concrete wall one time too many and has realized that you cannot reason with a population that is known worldwide for it's ignorance yet think themselves brilliant.These people have the terrible combination of African backwardness combined with a French air of superiority creating mainly destitute ignoramuses with a superiority complex !

We as Dominicans have every right to do whatever we wish in our country short of genocide and abusing fundamental human rights with the Haitians in our country illegally and this law will not mean anything if their is not an enforcement of the actual laws regarding illegal Haitians in the country!
I
Written by: Belly, 28 May 2009 12:03 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Lautaro

Don't waste your time with these folks.Just so you know i have found this great line that is actually working for me to move them away.

Hateans If you guys hate DR so much why don't you just go away. I mean the site name indicates very clear what this site is for. Just make sure you take your compatriots with you. You hate DR so much but can't get away from it.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 May 2009 12:34 PM
From: Canada
Listen hateros punks,

I am an educated human being who has the ability to understand perfectly what he's being told in french , english and haitian creole. I am sick and tired to repeat all day long the same things over and over again. You tell me your level of education, and I'll try to lower my academic language to one that is reachable and understandable to your little pea soup brain. I don't have to give you more proof to your delusion and desire to being white: you idiots, are the proof. Look at the picture representing your community in the US: Ha ha ha ha! all little clear skin puppies.

Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 28 May 2009 12:35 PM
From: Canada
Tell me something, wiht their one drop rule, do you the yankees think that you are whites. I f you think so, you risk to make me pass away with laughter. Do you think they consider Obama, Halle Berry and all the other more than clear skinned African American beauties as white? Why don't you get yourserlves a life and your own identity before the whole world start puffing at you. It begins to be a kind of embarassment for us, the educated haitians, to have to share this island with a people fitted with a so low self esteem and acute syndrom of inferiority. No wonder that your own spaniards king and cousin treated you like crap.
Written by: Lautaro, 28 May 2009 12:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
absent minded,

I have decided from now on to keep my conversation with you and your troll gang to a bare minimum, cuz' I am deeply conflicted in my assessment of you. Sometimes I think you are a group of pranksters, cuz' no human group can possibly be as idiotic and thick headed as you all are while being serious. The other assessment is that you are all a bunch of deluded, self-centered, annoying, loathsome, black supremacists pieces of garbage, which is my thought of preference. In either case, you constitute a severe waste of time and thinking, and are little more than a colossal bore. You and the other trolls can go and f*ck yourselves for all I bloody care.
Written by: Belly, 28 May 2009 1:09 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
oupala07

If you guys hate DR so much why don't you just go away. I mean the site name indicates very clear what this site is for. Just make sure you take your compatriots with you. You hate DR so much but can't get away from it.

By the way my academic level is a Master Degree in Computer Science. If you are so educated why doesn't it show in you spelling and comments.
Written by: antonioj, 28 May 2009 1:25 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Pepe32 leave the crack pipe alone
Written by: antonioj, 28 May 2009 1:56 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Oupala 07 laut corned you...low blow under the belt, juego bonito
Written by: Pepe32, 28 May 2009 2:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio,the truth hurts ...I know that from past encounters .Your attempt to appear unbiased does not work on me since I have read your ant-Dominican tirades when a Piti majority is present ,your double discourse is just an alcoholics obsession with all things Dominican instead of focusing on the total FU in your own nation .Some of my compatriots do not know who they are dealing with but you are worse than those ignorants because you are a hypocrite that says one thing in front of Haitians yet another in DT. Bottom line is we don't need you or any other Haitian in DR and you all can crawl back to your little inferno called "Haiti Cherie".


Written by: Pepe32, 28 May 2009 2:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Belly,the are not too bright but they do have some common sense and we are the only ones actually doing something for Haitians..

The talk BS but they know Haiti is a cesspool deep down ,it's just that they are so proud (of what ??) they will not admit the truth.
Written by: antonioj, 28 May 2009 5:19 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Pepe32 you are just jealous of me, I represent what you can never dream of achieving.You are the real hypocrite unlike you I am not hidding myself under different identities to spew hatred and falsehood.I have beaten the truth out of you, fair and square. You are pulverized by my presence rightly so, now keep healing your wounds and this is for all your AKA's.
Written by: antonioj, 28 May 2009 7:18 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
Pepe32 you are a dinosaur, and fail to evolve, the principle of darwism does not to apply to your kind. Your bootleg attempt to cloud my stature is a sign of your own mediocrity. I would not lower myself to your miserable pit of despair or fall into your trap, as you have continously shown your game plan is to demonize and turn every good conscience poster from the west into ridicule. I agree the truth does hurts Mister, I have evolved , learn, and adapt, can you do that I think NOT. You exemplify so much "you can not teach old dog new trick", in the mean time keep your malevolances and your dogmatic rethoric to yourself, you will not make me a convert, and likewise I do not welcome you at DT.
Written by: PROUDTOBEHAITIAN, 29 May 2009 9:48 PM
From: United States
Lautaro,


Don't let them break you down. Rember you are suppose to be the voice of reason.
Written by: Lautaro, 29 May 2009 10:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
There's no need for the call, proud, cuz' today I made my peace with some of them. But thanks for your concern anyway. The very real problem of this island are these good-for-nothing politicians of ours, which prefer to keep playing their fast-buck-and-ostrich games, while the very real problems and ailments of the population remain unattended. It seems that it would take an upheaval like the one that happened in Venezuela for these morons to finally wake up and smell the coffee.
Written by: Pepe32, 31 May 2009 9:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Me importa un bledo lo que piensen los Haitianos como Antoine que en muchas ocasiones han mostrado lo que realmente piensa de nosotros cuando esta rodeado de su tribu.

Este es un asunto de soberania Dominicana y concuedo con Lautaro que los primeros culpables son Dominicanos que por unos pesos venden la Patria y que venderian su propia madre por el precio correcto.

Los que no tienen derecho alguno de meterse en nuestros asuntos son los Haitianos que entran a nuestra Patria la aprovechan y despues escupen en la cara de nuestra nacion.

Estoy harto de seguirles el juego de multiples seudonimos Haitianos que seguro provienen de unos pocos ,estos hacen el juego ,algunos buscando "PAZ" y otros atacando pero mientras tanto es RD que pierde con cada Haitiano que entra en nuestro suelo .


Written by: jkdsdv6, 1 Jun 2009 5:35 PM
From: United States
How Dominicans can claim justice went DOMINICANS come to my island illegally. We haven't protested , we have recivido then with are hand open... but they don't hablan when they make pregnant a minor ok...they don't hablan about haitianos , They dont hablan whent I WENT TO DOMINICAN BULL THE POLICE STOP ME AND ASK ME FOR MONEY OR THEY WILL PUT IN CARSER AH.... NO WHAT IS IT THEM ?
Written by: jkdsdv6, 1 Jun 2009 5:48 PM
From: United States
PEPE32
Como Puerto Riqueno que soy ni aun en mi patria habia escuchado tanta tanta porqueria de RACISMOOOOOO
Written by: Pepe32, 2 Jun 2009 1:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
with major malfunction
Written by: Pepe32, 2 Jun 2009 1:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Es raro Dominicano Blanco Cubano que no hable mierda or Purtoriqueño que no sea BRUTO!!!

!Este apenas sabe Inglés y de seguro que su Español es bastante malo tambien !

For jkdsdv6 who apparently can´t read (he´s probably a Haitian posing as PR)racism applies to RACE not culture and if you knew how to read you would know that I clearly stated that it was culture rather than race that was the root of African backwardness. Now when a moron responds to logical and verifiable information with such an idiotic response it is obvious that either they cannot understand ,or even worse do not want to accept things that most of the world knows.

The only bright spots in the African race have come from those in the diaspora who shed the African culture and adopted superior and progressive cultures instead of the primitive culture they were born to.

You Boricua (or hidden Haitian ) are obviously slow or as they say today "special" and are way of your head threatening your scarce neurons w
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 2 Jun 2009 2:08 PM
From: Canada
So, you see my friend Pepe32,

If someone defends the Haitians in your language, he is presumably a Haitian. In other words, you have a personal jihad against us. My friend, you are leaving in another world. Wake up! It is the 2009 and soon 2010 because we're already at mid year. Weak up! The time of Attila the Hun is over, it is the time of the Phoenician, it's the time for business. I am not going to call you name, because, I suspect that you're an intelligent dude.
Believe me if I were you the Dominicans, the same way, youn can buy a skry crapper for 100 thousands dollars in the United States, is the same way I would have invest heavily in some touristics juicy pieces of pie in Haiti. Who knows! Maybe some world powers just do not want you too. You have to remember how active you were in the Aristide overthrowing. But it's okay! Then why not trying now to rebuild the bridges because, one way or the other, the Haitian Dominican border is moving fast, but we are not growing.
Written by: generoso, 2 Jun 2009 2:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Good fences, make good neighbors"
oupala07
See you still haven't learned your lesson, after the pilots beat you like an Iraqui prisoner, and you are now Oupalao7 (neither here not there) the human piñata. LOL.
Boy, your bunda must be sore like hell. You fantasy plane-less flight simulator junkie. LOL.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 2 Jun 2009 2:41 PM
From: Canada
tremendous load on your financial capabilities. We must start to take our border more seriously, because it is an international point of transit to other national borders. We must make sure that no drugs, contrabande and non legal items transit buy it net of our custom agents. Those networks of passers that are flooding your country with our peasants must be dismantled and prosecuted. When I read on the Dominiantoday that the "Informal trade" which means contraband" has reached 650 millions dollars, I could not believe that our politicians, as nation builders, could be so corrupt.

I am going to get off the bus right here because I don't want to freeze your time readeang me. However, think about it, for instead of hating us, let's find a way to repatriate those nationals of mine, then you'll have no excuse not to keep us from coming after a few piece of your market. So don't you take on us, we can compete fairly with you and know that.
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