SAN PEDRO, Dominican Republic. – In what lawyers call a landmark case in the Dominican Republic, around 500 Haitian workers of a San Pedro sugar mill went to court to demand contracts with labor rights from the company they’ve been employed by for years.
Testimony began Tuesday with 62 Haitians who went to the Labor Court of Appeals demand contracts, health insurance and other benefits from the mill Cristóbal Colon C. x A., of the Vicini group, where many of them have been working for dozens of years.
Guillermo Jean, who said he’s been working in the company since he was 10 years old, today filed suit to obtain contracts for him and his companions, in addition to Christmas bonuses and pensions for retired employees. “When one works and December arrives one knows that something awaits them, but they never gave us nothing. We are tired."
“Now things are terrible. The parents cannot buy the children a notebook or give them to eat well" Jean said, who makes around 400 Dominican pesos (11 dollars) per week.
The case went to the Appeals Court after the company challenged a previous ruling handed down by the lower Labor court, ordering the mill to formalize the work contracts.
As many as 500 sugar mill workers have been scheduled to appear for testimony the next few days, as Jean was one of the first to do so in Tuesday’s hearing, in what the workers’ lawyers say is a case without precedent in the Dominican Republic, because of the type of claim and from the large number of plaintiffs and their condition of immigrants.
The Vicini group’s position
The company which owns Colon and other mills refuses to enter into contracts with the workers alleging that they are "nomads."
"They are nomads, they don’t remain in one site, they often sleep in a batey and at dawn the other day they aren’t there, they take their belongings and go," said the company’s lawyer Mario Carbuccia.
"There’s no control of that floating population to be able to make a contract, because nothing guarantees that they’re going to remain the six months it takes to harvest the sugarcane,” the lawyer added.
SOURCE: clavedigital.com
Written by: Juango, 10 Jun 2009 3:31 PM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
Does anyone know, how old man Vicini was able to aquire so much land/property during the Trujillo regime? Was he a personal friend of RL Trujillo, El Jefe ? I would hope the 500 Haitians get some respect in this one, but money always conquers/wins all and the Vicini has a few pesos.
Written by: xwill7, 10 Jun 2009 3:43 PM
From: United States, Chicago
they will find some loop hole and get out of this jam
From: United States, New York City
The Vicinis had money and influence in the Republic well before Trujillo...they produced an early twentieth century Dominican president, Vicini Burgos.
Written by: ateo1992, 10 Jun 2009 4:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
DEPORT THEM ALL!!! and give those jobs to your fellow Dominicans!!!!
From: United States, New York City
"DEPORT THEM ALL!!! and give those jobs to your fellow Dominicans!!!!"
I don't think most Dominicans would except the wages paid by the Vicinis for the work required.
Written by: xwill7, 10 Jun 2009 5:18 PM
From: United States, Chicago
ateo,
no AC in the sugar plant. its better for a Dominican to drive a taxi and enjoy the AC
From: United States
the haitian employees i believe are crossing their fingers on this one as they take this risky chance of sueing the mill. by obtaining contracts for workers that have been there for dozens of years is saying that they want instate a union which if they dont have by now probably wont ever have one. this may be futile.
Written by: Amber, 10 Jun 2009 5:38 PM
From: United States
Do these laborers make around $400 pesos per week? Or, is it that this man in particular makes that amount because perhaps he might be working only a couple of days per week? If these people make this pittance, regardless of their nationality, I would say that this is abusive. It doesn't matter whether they are working for a day, a week, or months, they should receive reasonable compensation for their work. I don't buy the excuse that "they are nomads". Being a transient doesn't make your work less valuable.
Your workforce should be treated with dignity. These are human beings. Stop hiring undocumented people if you really want to be able to keep track of their whereabouts in order to pay them reasonable wages
From: United States
xwill7, please flight right !
From: United States, Brooklyn
I hope the Haitians win so they can teach the Vicini family to employ dominicans and pay them well to avoid this types of mess!
From: United States, New York
Carlos, I'm with you on that one. As much as we complain about Haitian immgiration, they're there because people like the Vicinis employ them. If they win the case, they will finally cease to be cheap labor.
Written by: Belly, 10 Jun 2009 8:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Nothing will happen but 500 Haitian getting fire and then Vsnicis will just ask Solaridad Fronteriza to just bring in another 500 because the last 500 didn't work out to good in their favor. This game has been played for the 25 years. Matter of faq that's the game every other island around us is doing with illegal Haitians that reside illegally in their territory except we are the only one the media picks up on. the funny things is all others are colonies of USA too i wonder if thats the reason why they don't get the spotlight too.
From: United States
to all you honorable posters who see the inhumanity in all this, i can only say that nothing good can come of this, there will be recriminations against all haitians, and justice is just an imaginary hope. the Vicinis will pay off the people who are charged with the duty of dispensing "justice", and , in a few weeks, we will be discussing something more mundane, like the Metro, ethanol, or some new spanish "investment" in Punta Cana. these guys like the Vicinis do not amass their fortunes by honorable deeds, such as paying a living wage. they are modern day slave traders, without a shred of decency or honor. and, i bet you, they are good Christians, more than likely adherents to the Church of Rome. i would love to be a fly on the wall when they meet their maker, and he asks them to explain their lives
Written by: THINK, 10 Jun 2009 9:37 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo -- Mia --NY
The way that Haitian are being treated in DR, it could be used to reflect that Dominicans being treated in overseas. (I am not prejudice saying that, but I would say pretty similar scenarios)., yet for those who staying at homeland in DR can not go abroad to work envy those who can go abroad and work. It is such a " IRONICAL BUT REAL LIFE IN DR."
I know most of Dominicans they want to go back to DR after 10, 15 , or 20 years work overseas, which means they love to stay and live in DR., but they have no choice to make a better living in DR now.
What a shame of the Government?????
From: United States
Ref CarlosFranco, 10 Jun 2009 7:50 PM
I hope the Haitians win so they can teach the Vicini family to employ dominicans and pay them well to avoid this types of mess!
============
I agree, not only will it teach Vicini but hope it serves as an example to the rest of the companies in DR.
From: United States
i am not sure if i read THINK correctly, but i assume that he means that Dominicans abroad are being treated similarly as the haitians are in this land. the difference, THINK, is that there are labor laws in the USA , and other similarly situated countries, which have teeth. exploiters are part of the human landscape, but, in certain countries , they are severely punished for malfeasance..
From: United States
Yes there are laws in the U.S but for the most part there is a respect for the rule of law that extends to all facets of society and a judicial system that I can say though not perfect does work most of the times. However DR has no such legitimate functioning system and the rule of law is the rule of Billete. Therefore Business owners must be punished if not by the legal system then by the market.
From: United States
i have never heard such a piece of crap as the excuse offered by the "lawyer" for the Vicini Group. a contract cannot be entered into, he allows, because "they" are nomads, and it is a case of "here today, gone tomorrow". well, as anyone with a third rate, third grade education ought to know, all contracts are collections of clauses. they constitute binding obligations, and , whichever party fails to comply with his obligation is deemed to be in breach. if the Vicinis really intend to act like human beings, what does it matter to them if the other party breaches the contract? they are not the ones in the position to have punitive action taken against them! if they play by the rules of the game, and the other team walks off the field, it is the opponent who loses by default. so, what fear can they have about entering into a contract, other than the inner knowledge that they are more likely to be in breach than the "nomads"?
From: United States
Contract law for DR would determine what is/not enforceable by law. If based on DR contract law the Haitians did not have capacity to contract then their claim could be disqualified or dismissed unless the judge decides to provide an alternate remedy to the litigants. and we know what is the rule of law in DR.
Written by: Lautaro, 10 Jun 2009 11:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Careful dread, GC might be hovering and waiting for the moment to accuse you of playing the race "domino", or of "wanting to push the gringos to the sea". LOL
Written by: Lautaro, 10 Jun 2009 11:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Seriously though, I hope for these workers to get what is owed to them, cuz' that would send the signal to our construction business "colons" that their game might be coming to an end, one that is more than long overdue, in my humble opinion. Regrettably, to expect a fair judgement from our justice system is the same as expecting for a snowfall to happen in the Caribbean. Like the chronicler Alonso de Herrera said on a letter to king Phillip II of Spain: "The people of this land is an enemy to the notion of justice being carried out on it".
Written by: bearcat, 11 Jun 2009 12:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This one makes me laugh; talk about total Bull----, this is it. The question here is respect and dignity for those who do the dirty work for you. $US11.00 a week is nothing; but more to the point, if they are really nomads give them a contract because you know you can not pay a ghost. But if in fact they are workers and make you money, treat them with dignity and respect and pay them.
It is in the companies’ best interest to have a stable labor force. What would happen if none of the harvesters came to work? Will Mr. Carbuccia cut sugar cane? I do not think so.
Bearcat
Written by: telemeco, 11 Jun 2009 7:14 AM
From: United States, Paterson, New Jersey
i hope they win the sue,,,,and i also hope that the Viccini families learn from this and modernize the sugar mill by making sugar cane automation posible this way we dont need haitian cutting sugar cane anymore,,,,,i really hope THE HAITIAN WIN THE SUE..
Written by: generoso, 11 Jun 2009 8:27 AM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Even if it is a labor case it is not as simple as all that. From a legal standpoint the "nomads" argument makes sense as then they are not regular and permanent employees. The Vicini lawyers will fight this suit tooth and nails, and it will probably be a very uphill battle for the suers. The thing is if there is a judgement, (and it survives after appeals all the way to the higher courts, since the Vicini lawyers on retainers that could care less about how long it takes), any adverse ruling establishes a dangerous precedent for the future labor costs of the Vicini sugar cane industry, and would be avoided like the plague.
Nobody is going to force these "businessmen" to mechanize their labor force, if they haven't done so already, they will keep trying to hold on to the status quo, forever, if not then they will diversify into all their other business. The lawyers suing should want to negotiate, and earn a lot of vitality, persistence, patience and find deep pockets.
Written by: Pepe32, 11 Jun 2009 9:28 AM
From: Dominican Republic
If they are in the country legally then they can sue ,otherwise they cannot expect a LEGAL contract when they are in the country ILLEGALLY!
From: United States
It is very refreshing to finally read objective posts that make sense and force you to think.
You are ok guys. Keep flying right
Written by: xwill7, 11 Jun 2009 9:38 AM
From: United States, Chicago
I hope they win but that will not happen. The officials will not let them win because then many more lawsuits will come after the win
Written by: Juango, 11 Jun 2009 9:59 AM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
If any Haitian was killed earlier this week, when the boiler exploded at Colon, that too, could be a wrongful death lawsuit. The accident could have been negligence on behalf of the Mill, to ensure safety in the workplace. Unfortunately in the DR, justice is foul: Influence=Money. The Vicinis have a special status in the DR (above the law), much like the Kenndys have in the USA. Remember Chappaquitic ? Old Teddy can walk on water, just like the Vicinis (in the DR).
Written by: bearcat, 11 Jun 2009 10:46 AM
From: Dominican Republic
I was disappointed with the veiwpoint of one of the respondents from the DR as to the legal status of the litigants. We all of us have no evidence before us that any of the litigants are illegal and it can not be assumed that because of their nationality that they are in this country illegally.
More important I would think that Dominican would hope that they would prevail. Why? If they win as unlikely as it may seem to anyone it will benefit you. There are no real controls on employers in the DR. Employees welfare and safety are not a consideration only profit.
If they lose and leave all of them how many Domincians will take the jobs they leave? Not very many I am afraid. If they all left at once the Dominican economy would crash. Much has been written in the US about illegal hispanics in the country but if they left the US would stop. If it could happen to the US with its resouraces what would happen here?
From: United States, New York City
"As much as we complain about Haitian immgiration, they're there because people like the Vicinis employ them. "
Bingo.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Why is there no more outrage against the Vincinis? I'm amazed at some of the posters who show outrage at these poor workers whose rights and humanity have been disregarded. I am ashamed of those of you who want the workers to win, in order to dissuade Haitian migration to the DR. YOU SHOULD WANT THE WORKERS TO WIN B/C THAT WOULD MEAN THAT YOUR RIGHTS WILL BE FURTHER PROTECTED.
Shame on those of you who have no humanity or compasion. Shame on you who are willing to leave the country in the hands of the oligarchs. Shame on you who deny the development of a nation based on Human Rights and Rule of Law for ALL. The only thing I can imagine may change your mind would be to spend a week in the lives of these poor workers, and maybe then you would see the inhumanity of the Vincinis and the error of your ways.
I hope these workers win, so that the rights of ALL workers are protected and so that the Oligarchs see that the winds of democracy are enticing change...
Written by: generoso, 11 Jun 2009 1:07 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
baldoria23
You need to go through a process of mental reingeniering and deprogramming to understand what is really going on. Humanity or compassion always wins, against the dark forces of evil, but things are not as simple as they may appear.
Try to read between the lines, and see the hidden agendas, and who is financing these expensive legal battles, and what their ultimate purpose is. Nobody in their right mind would take the side of the Vicini's as they are historical and card carrying slavers, with impunity and recurrent behavior.
The conspiracy against our nation is using the slave like conditions of the extinguished batey's, the tired racism excuse, and xenophobia arguments as the window of opportunity and fuel to foster their unification goals.
From: United States, New York City
"Why is there no more outrage against the Vincinis?"
I've been asking myself that question for years.
Written by: haitiano, 11 Jun 2009 1:22 PM
From: Haiti
May be the undocumented Dominican Nationals around the globe should be paid the same before taxes !
What is good for the goose ,is good for the gander
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
Generoso, this threat of "unification" is no justification for human rights abuse, or defending the abusers. I don't get your point about reading between the lines, b/c there's an encyclopedia behind every word, but I focus on human and labor rights abuses. In this I support LF who is very ademant, at least in his speech, about defending Human rights for ALL people in the DR.
Gene, my point is that we should not justify attrocities, discrimination, and oppression b/c of some manufactured fear.
Written by: BASTA, 11 Jun 2009 6:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, = Ghetto-SPM-Barrio Blanco
Deport the The Vicinis
From: United States, New York City
"Deport the The Vicinis"
And believe me they have somewhere to go..the family NEVER renounced Italian citizenship..hell, look at the last name of their lawyer cited in this article to see how they like to keep things.
Written by: Banana, 11 Jun 2009 8:23 PM
From: Heard Island and McDonald Islands
A lot of Haitians working for these plants are rounded up in Haiti, brought to the DR and forced to work. . .so being there illegally is not by their choice.
As far as leaving goes they never have enough money to leave--they're lucky to have enough money to buy something to eat. So again, they're not staying by choice.
And--these jobs happen to be one of the most dangerous jobs on the planet because of the work environment. No OSHA there. . .no reports of injury or death.
It's very dirty business and we stand by and argue that they're here illegally. Goodness gracious, may as well argue that somebody's wallet is getting stolen even though someone just came along and raped, killed, and dismembered the person whose wallet your concerned about.
Written by: generoso, 11 Jun 2009 8:27 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
baldoria23
I agree. But the illegals are threading on thin ice, because of their undefined legal status. The human rights of all humans must always be protected. But the legal maneuver has more to do with money, keep that in mind.
Before you make a hasty judgement, the other sides claims must be heard as well, after all there have been many cases lately of land invasions by Haitians squatters demanding money to be removed from the land. All I am saying is that sometimes what you read is not as simple and downhill as what the real facts, and we are manipulated by appealing to our emotions.
Written by: Banana, 11 Jun 2009 8:38 PM
From: Heard Island and McDonald Islands
generoso--Haitians were rounded up against their will and actually forced into the DR. And b/c they can't afford to "escape" they are being held against their will. They are slaves in every sense of the word. They can't leave--period. The only difference between them and a slave is that they are given just barely enough money to buy just barely enough food to sustain them to work . . . just like slaves. Are you saying they are outside the protection of human rights because they are technically "illegal?"
It's the elephant in the room. . .only he's wearing chains and nobody is acknowledging either the elephant or its chains.
From: United States, New York City
"Haitians were rounded up against their will and actually forced into the DR."
What evidence have you to support such a claim?
From: United States
I can not post any comments
I suffer from DHHM ( Dominicans Haitians Hablando Mierda)
Written by: generoso, 11 Jun 2009 11:10 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
Banana
You are living in the past, maybe in the 1950's that was the case, but nowadays I assure you that is just fantasy, and creative imagination. It is the bad rap and harmful propaganda that we are bombarded with every day and we must fight to educate that the reality is not so.
From: Canada
Viví más de ocho años a Republica Dominicana y tuve conocimiento de los problemas de los Haitianos que viven y trabaja en las cañas de azúcar.
Al principio yo pensaba como algunos de usted.
Me decía que de la inmigración era ilegal, que viene para robar el trabajo de los Dominicanos.
Pero después de haber visitado el campo de los Haitianos que trabajan en las cañas de azúcar en Pto-Plata, vi allí condiciones de vida que hasta los presos conoce.
Y después de varias conversaciones con Dominicanos concerniendo al trabajo ilegal
Haitianos en las cañas de azúcar, ellos todos me dijeron <<Mezcla tú tus asuntos,
Haitianos hacen un trabajo que los Dominicanos quieren hacer.>>
¿Dónde está la hipocresía? ¿??
Un Dominicano que gana un salario hecho medio todo lo que puede para dejar R.D.
(USÓ y otros(as).)
Un Dominicano que gana el salario mínimo hace todo lo que puede para dejar R.D. (Puerto Rico.).
Un Haitiano viene en R.D. Hacer un trabajo que Dominicano no veul
Un Ha
From: Canada
Un Haitiano viene en R.D. Hacer un trabajo que Dominicano quieren hacer y algunos de usted están de acuerdo que empresarios corrompidos les pagan menos que el salario mínimo.
Tengo miseria con usted.
Porque aquí a Montréal, que tú sea canadiense, americano, dominicano, haitiano, u otro, y que tú sea legal o ilegal, es la misma ley el mismo salario mínimo para todo el mundo.
Pero nosotros, nosotros no tenemos huye nuestro país para hacer valer nuestros derechos, nos peleamos durante varios años contrariamente a ustedes dominicanos huye su país al menor problema.
Usted no fue bastante hombre para combatir estas compañías que sacan provecho de los empleados, que él sea dominicano, haitiano, u otras, tiene prefiera huir su país.
Si, usted habría combatido a estos empresarios aprovechados no estaríamos de allí allí hoy.
Porque no olvide que en 2009 hay un método mécanisée de cosechar la caña de azúcar.
Pero mientras que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer empl
From: Canada
Porque no olvide que en 2009 hay un método mécanisée de cosechar la caña de azúcar.
Pero mientras que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer employ
Pero tanto que que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer a empleados abajo el salario mínimo, la corrupción va a continuar en R.D. Y la gente como vais ustedes a continuar inmigrando a USA o en otra parte. No es con el éxodo que un país se desarrolla. Maleureusement no es el caso de la mayoría de usted.
Buena reflexión.
From: Canada
Haïitiens does job that the Dominicans are not able of making.
Fight corruption.
Written by: mrios, 12 Jun 2009 8:47 AM
From: United States
I say give the Haitians what is rightfully theirs, a honest days work for a honest days pay. Anything other then that would be unjust and a out right swindle. Lets show the World despite our home grown Dominican RIFF RAFF there is an once of decency still left. I believe hard work with out any compensation regardless of the circumstances is equivalent to modern day SLAVERY.
WHAT IF THESE HUMAN BEINGS WERE DOMINICANS ? would one think different, hope not.
Work, WORKS.
Written by: Pepe32, 12 Jun 2009 10:36 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Why are people still using archaic terms like "Oligarchs ?
Again ,the workers have rights to fair treatment regardless of immigration status,what the don't have is a LEGAL right to a contract if they are ILLEGAL.
One issue does not obviate the other!
Now between the Vicinis who are Dominican and the Haitian workers I chose the Vicinis and if they don't like the situation they should be paid and sent home where they will get "excellent" treatment unlike the "evil" Dominicans .
'
Written by: bearcat, 12 Jun 2009 11:39 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Amen Pepe32,
Treat people right or leave them alone.
Bearcat
From: United States, New York City
"Why are people still using archaic terms like "Oligarchs ?"
oligarchy- a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes.
I think the definition pretty much sums up the business and political class in DR. It's not archaic at all. That's an apt description.
From: United States, Washington, D.C.
For those of you who side w/ the Vincinis, I just hope you never get the same treatment they're giving these workers. Don't you get it that to defend the rights of one group is to defend all our rights?
Oligarchs may be an old term, but guess what, things haven't changed that much. pardon the crass analogy but, Oligarchs or Elites, a turd by any other name still smells like a turd, and the vincinis are among the biggest turds in the DR. They're not going to give away their power or influence, we need to build solid institutions that will compel them to play nice, or else face punishment via the legal system.
Here's an honest question to all these legal scholars, I just finished reviewing the first 192 articles of the Labor Code, which deal with labor contracts, I didn't find anywhere where migration status played a role into whether individuals can enter a labor contract. Here's the link:
http://www.set.gov.do/descargas/download/cod001.pdfFrom: United States
No noise, no bouhaha,no fighting !
Please flight right !!!!!
From: United States, New York City
If anything the Dominican government should pass strict penalties for employing illegal labor. Those such as the Vicinis are the problem, not the poor souls looking for work. If there is no incentive the illegal border crossings will cease, period.
Written by: generoso, 12 Jun 2009 1:02 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo
I was witness to a labor case involving a powerful group that wanted to get away from not paying the legal severances to a managerial employee. The employee won, and the employee claims win in a great majority of cases, that are argued with facts and figures, as well as strong legal foundations.
Our Dominican labor justice system has demonstrated great strides forward in their judgements let us just wait and see what the final outcome will be.
From: United States
Pepe, if the workers do no have legal rights to a contract because of the irregularity of their immigraion status, then we must wonder where it leaves the employer, who hired them. surely, the employer´s lawyer will plead ignorance of their status, but the onus should be upon them to discern whether the illegals are really just that... illegal. should the haitians apply sleight of hand tricks of documentation, there is still no culpability on the part of the Vicinis. and, when people stop acting like oligarchs, then that archaic term will no longer be in popular useage.
From: United States, New York City
Dread, your erudite observations have been in short supply as of late.
From: Canada
Certain of you preferred escaping Republica Dominicana rather than to help R.D. to develop and to fight corruption.
And now that Haitian get up standing and want to fight corruption, some of you find means to use their illegal status of employees to support the employers without scruples which abuse their employees.
I understand why you have leave R.D. rather than help R.D. in its development.
Not enough man to confront problems it is
easier to run away in USAS.
The Haitian are spirit to do the job which you were afraid to make and have more of heart in the belly than some of you to expand and develop Republica Dominicana.
Good cogitation.
From: Canada
@mrios.
You say and I name you.
And if this human being were Dominicans.
On what planet do you live???
Why do you think that this company job 500 Haitian and no Dominican???
No Dominicans wants to do the job which the Haitian make.
Are you rather clever to understand this???
The Dominicans are not able of doing the job of the Haitian, but on top of that they agree with the employer who treat them in slave.
If I definitely understood your reasoning, it is what you say to me???
To read you, my cerebrum loses blood.
Because it is not the Dominicans that I knew in Cabarete during the eight years that I lived there, which would have had your reasoning.
From: Canada
@Pepe32. I agree with you, whom the Haitian stop complaining and go back to their country.
For vote information the sugar cane is the second economic lever of R.D.
Therefore, you turn all Haitian who work in sugar canes and you replace them by whom???
No Dominicans wants to do this job and to be treated as slave.
Therefore, say to me which is going to take over so that the second economic lever of R.D. Am operational???
If I am your reasoning, you are ready to sacrifice a workforce to qualify and irreplaceable because you want to do the job of the Haitian??
Let me say to you that it is thanks to mentality as your that R.D. in misery in press.
Your country is older than mine but is not to develop in the third of mine why????
Thanks to reasoning as yours.
Good cogitation.
From: United States
thanks for your kind words, cibaeno. when my network issues have been resolved, i will gladly join you guys on a more regular basis.
From: United States, "La matabugas, matabocones, matacobardes y azarosos".
We have lot of criminals that should be offered jobs while in jails or to avoid jail. Also why not to establish community service jobs for minor criminal violations.
Written by: mrios, 15 Jun 2009 11:41 PM
From: United States
Gringo from Montreal,
The sugar company hired Haitians for economic reasons only BIGGER PROFITS
P l e a s e r e r e a d m y l a s t p o s t i n g.......T h e n r e s p o n d.
Written by: Banana, 16 Jun 2009 8:56 AM
From: Heard Island and McDonald Islands
generoso
Maybe not rounded up like the Dominican government used to pay the Haitian government to do in the past, but headhunters are still CURRENTLY paid to round up workers. Really, what Haitian living in a batey wants to be there if they have a choice? Life is pretty bad on the Haitian side, but what Haitian goes there willingly knowing what the true conditions of the sugar mill work are really like? They're stuck. . .stuck, stuck, stuck and it stinks. Looks like someone's sick of being stuck.
From: United States
Here's another unfortunate group of humans being used & abused for the profiteering of yet another immigrant family that traveled to the American continent & made their fortune on the backs of slave labor. These Italian immigrants first stepped foot on Dominican soil in the 1800's & have had their hands in big business & political affairs for over a hundred years. They're involved in many organizations, societies & political institutions. They wield their vast monetary & political might against any competitors, opposers, or detractors with impunity. They've gained favor for investing their monetary funds with the opposers of the ungodly Trujillo regime & have been graciously rewarded to say the least. The exposure to the world of the dire concentration camp like conditions that the Haitian workers endure on a daily basis is beyond reproach. The Vicini's, have even hired elite attorneys to defend them & put fear in their accusers. These vultures have to die! Just a humble thought.
Written by: Pepe32, 28 Oct 2009 8:51 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Gentleman ,rule of law has nothing to do with emotion instead it has to do with current laws and if someone does not have legal status in the country how can they have a legal contract.(as workers).
I know for some it is almost instinctual to favour workers over management but like any issue it does have two sides and the Vicinis have a right to protect their interests not to mention the fact that they also contribute to the economy of DR.
This is like an unlicensed driver claiming rights as a driver.One truth pointed out is that the people who employ these workers are also guilty of operating outside the law and should be fined for employing illegal labourers .
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I don't think most Dominicans would except the wages paid by the Vicinis for the work required.
no AC in the sugar plant. its better for a Dominican to drive a taxi and enjoy the AC
Your workforce should be treated with dignity. These are human beings. Stop hiring undocumented people if you really want to be able to keep track of their whereabouts in order to pay them reasonable wages
I hope the Haitians win so they can teach the Vicini family to employ dominicans and pay them well to avoid this types of mess!
I know most of Dominicans they want to go back to DR after 10, 15 , or 20 years work overseas, which means they love to stay and live in DR., but they have no choice to make a better living in DR now.
What a shame of the Government?????
I hope the Haitians win so they can teach the Vicini family to employ dominicans and pay them well to avoid this types of mess!
============
I agree, not only will it teach Vicini but hope it serves as an example to the rest of the companies in DR.
It is in the companies’ best interest to have a stable labor force. What would happen if none of the harvesters came to work? Will Mr. Carbuccia cut sugar cane? I do not think so.
Bearcat
Nobody is going to force these "businessmen" to mechanize their labor force, if they haven't done so already, they will keep trying to hold on to the status quo, forever, if not then they will diversify into all their other business. The lawyers suing should want to negotiate, and earn a lot of vitality, persistence, patience and find deep pockets.
You are ok guys. Keep flying right
More important I would think that Dominican would hope that they would prevail. Why? If they win as unlikely as it may seem to anyone it will benefit you. There are no real controls on employers in the DR. Employees welfare and safety are not a consideration only profit.
If they lose and leave all of them how many Domincians will take the jobs they leave? Not very many I am afraid. If they all left at once the Dominican economy would crash. Much has been written in the US about illegal hispanics in the country but if they left the US would stop. If it could happen to the US with its resouraces what would happen here?
Bingo.
Shame on those of you who have no humanity or compasion. Shame on you who are willing to leave the country in the hands of the oligarchs. Shame on you who deny the development of a nation based on Human Rights and Rule of Law for ALL. The only thing I can imagine may change your mind would be to spend a week in the lives of these poor workers, and maybe then you would see the inhumanity of the Vincinis and the error of your ways.
I hope these workers win, so that the rights of ALL workers are protected and so that the Oligarchs see that the winds of democracy are enticing change...
You need to go through a process of mental reingeniering and deprogramming to understand what is really going on. Humanity or compassion always wins, against the dark forces of evil, but things are not as simple as they may appear.
Try to read between the lines, and see the hidden agendas, and who is financing these expensive legal battles, and what their ultimate purpose is. Nobody in their right mind would take the side of the Vicini's as they are historical and card carrying slavers, with impunity and recurrent behavior.
The conspiracy against our nation is using the slave like conditions of the extinguished batey's, the tired racism excuse, and xenophobia arguments as the window of opportunity and fuel to foster their unification goals.
I've been asking myself that question for years.
What is good for the goose ,is good for the gander
Gene, my point is that we should not justify attrocities, discrimination, and oppression b/c of some manufactured fear.
And believe me they have somewhere to go..the family NEVER renounced Italian citizenship..hell, look at the last name of their lawyer cited in this article to see how they like to keep things.
As far as leaving goes they never have enough money to leave--they're lucky to have enough money to buy something to eat. So again, they're not staying by choice.
And--these jobs happen to be one of the most dangerous jobs on the planet because of the work environment. No OSHA there. . .no reports of injury or death.
It's very dirty business and we stand by and argue that they're here illegally. Goodness gracious, may as well argue that somebody's wallet is getting stolen even though someone just came along and raped, killed, and dismembered the person whose wallet your concerned about.
I agree. But the illegals are threading on thin ice, because of their undefined legal status. The human rights of all humans must always be protected. But the legal maneuver has more to do with money, keep that in mind.
Before you make a hasty judgement, the other sides claims must be heard as well, after all there have been many cases lately of land invasions by Haitians squatters demanding money to be removed from the land. All I am saying is that sometimes what you read is not as simple and downhill as what the real facts, and we are manipulated by appealing to our emotions.
It's the elephant in the room. . .only he's wearing chains and nobody is acknowledging either the elephant or its chains.
What evidence have you to support such a claim?
I suffer from DHHM ( Dominicans Haitians Hablando Mierda)
You are living in the past, maybe in the 1950's that was the case, but nowadays I assure you that is just fantasy, and creative imagination. It is the bad rap and harmful propaganda that we are bombarded with every day and we must fight to educate that the reality is not so.
Al principio yo pensaba como algunos de usted.
Me decía que de la inmigración era ilegal, que viene para robar el trabajo de los Dominicanos.
Pero después de haber visitado el campo de los Haitianos que trabajan en las cañas de azúcar en Pto-Plata, vi allí condiciones de vida que hasta los presos conoce.
Y después de varias conversaciones con Dominicanos concerniendo al trabajo ilegal
Haitianos en las cañas de azúcar, ellos todos me dijeron <<Mezcla tú tus asuntos,
Haitianos hacen un trabajo que los Dominicanos quieren hacer.>>
¿Dónde está la hipocresía? ¿??
Un Dominicano que gana un salario hecho medio todo lo que puede para dejar R.D.
(USÓ y otros(as).)
Un Dominicano que gana el salario mínimo hace todo lo que puede para dejar R.D. (Puerto Rico.).
Un Haitiano viene en R.D. Hacer un trabajo que Dominicano no veul
Un Ha
Tengo miseria con usted.
Porque aquí a Montréal, que tú sea canadiense, americano, dominicano, haitiano, u otro, y que tú sea legal o ilegal, es la misma ley el mismo salario mínimo para todo el mundo.
Pero nosotros, nosotros no tenemos huye nuestro país para hacer valer nuestros derechos, nos peleamos durante varios años contrariamente a ustedes dominicanos huye su país al menor problema.
Usted no fue bastante hombre para combatir estas compañías que sacan provecho de los empleados, que él sea dominicano, haitiano, u otras, tiene prefiera huir su país.
Si, usted habría combatido a estos empresarios aprovechados no estaríamos de allí allí hoy.
Porque no olvide que en 2009 hay un método mécanisée de cosechar la caña de azúcar.
Pero mientras que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer empl
Pero mientras que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer employ
Pero tanto que que gente como estaréis de acuerdo ustedes de comprometer a empleados abajo el salario mínimo, la corrupción va a continuar en R.D. Y la gente como vais ustedes a continuar inmigrando a USA o en otra parte. No es con el éxodo que un país se desarrolla. Maleureusement no es el caso de la mayoría de usted.
Buena reflexión.
Fight corruption.
WHAT IF THESE HUMAN BEINGS WERE DOMINICANS ? would one think different, hope not.
Work, WORKS.
Again ,the workers have rights to fair treatment regardless of immigration status,what the don't have is a LEGAL right to a contract if they are ILLEGAL.
One issue does not obviate the other!
Now between the Vicinis who are Dominican and the Haitian workers I chose the Vicinis and if they don't like the situation they should be paid and sent home where they will get "excellent" treatment unlike the "evil" Dominicans .
'
Treat people right or leave them alone.
Bearcat
oligarchy- a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes.
I think the definition pretty much sums up the business and political class in DR. It's not archaic at all. That's an apt description.
Oligarchs may be an old term, but guess what, things haven't changed that much. pardon the crass analogy but, Oligarchs or Elites, a turd by any other name still smells like a turd, and the vincinis are among the biggest turds in the DR. They're not going to give away their power or influence, we need to build solid institutions that will compel them to play nice, or else face punishment via the legal system.
Here's an honest question to all these legal scholars, I just finished reviewing the first 192 articles of the Labor Code, which deal with labor contracts, I didn't find anywhere where migration status played a role into whether individuals can enter a labor contract. Here's the link:
http://www.set.gov.do/descargas/download/cod001.pdf
Please flight right !!!!!
Our Dominican labor justice system has demonstrated great strides forward in their judgements let us just wait and see what the final outcome will be.
And now that Haitian get up standing and want to fight corruption, some of you find means to use their illegal status of employees to support the employers without scruples which abuse their employees.
I understand why you have leave R.D. rather than help R.D. in its development.
Not enough man to confront problems it is
easier to run away in USAS.
The Haitian are spirit to do the job which you were afraid to make and have more of heart in the belly than some of you to expand and develop Republica Dominicana.
Good cogitation.
You say and I name you.
And if this human being were Dominicans.
On what planet do you live???
Why do you think that this company job 500 Haitian and no Dominican???
No Dominicans wants to do the job which the Haitian make.
Are you rather clever to understand this???
The Dominicans are not able of doing the job of the Haitian, but on top of that they agree with the employer who treat them in slave.
If I definitely understood your reasoning, it is what you say to me???
To read you, my cerebrum loses blood.
Because it is not the Dominicans that I knew in Cabarete during the eight years that I lived there, which would have had your reasoning.
For vote information the sugar cane is the second economic lever of R.D.
Therefore, you turn all Haitian who work in sugar canes and you replace them by whom???
No Dominicans wants to do this job and to be treated as slave.
Therefore, say to me which is going to take over so that the second economic lever of R.D. Am operational???
If I am your reasoning, you are ready to sacrifice a workforce to qualify and irreplaceable because you want to do the job of the Haitian??
Let me say to you that it is thanks to mentality as your that R.D. in misery in press.
Your country is older than mine but is not to develop in the third of mine why????
Thanks to reasoning as yours.
Good cogitation.
The sugar company hired Haitians for economic reasons only BIGGER PROFITS
P l e a s e r e r e a d m y l a s t p o s t i n g.......T h e n r e s p o n d.
Maybe not rounded up like the Dominican government used to pay the Haitian government to do in the past, but headhunters are still CURRENTLY paid to round up workers. Really, what Haitian living in a batey wants to be there if they have a choice? Life is pretty bad on the Haitian side, but what Haitian goes there willingly knowing what the true conditions of the sugar mill work are really like? They're stuck. . .stuck, stuck, stuck and it stinks. Looks like someone's sick of being stuck.
I know for some it is almost instinctual to favour workers over management but like any issue it does have two sides and the Vicinis have a right to protect their interests not to mention the fact that they also contribute to the economy of DR.
This is like an unlicensed driver claiming rights as a driver.One truth pointed out is that the people who employ these workers are also guilty of operating outside the law and should be fined for employing illegal labourers .