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Santo Domingo.- One of the most important archaeological discovery in the Caribbean was made by scientists and students from Indiana University. The find was made in an underwater cave along the Dominican coast, not far from where Columbus first set foot in the Americas, an academic dive team from IU made its own discovery.

"We're looking at some of the earliest extinctions of animals when man came into the Caribbean. It's what they represent," said Charlie Beeker, the director of IU's Office of Underwater Science.

The rare finds are being studied in a lab on the Bloomington campus. The bones and artifacts date back thousands of years, earlier than any ever discovered before. "People are finding pieces of skull, a jawbone or teeth, what we managed to recover here are two complete sloths," Beeker said.

The discoveries came just weeks ago in a remote underwater cave in the Dominican Republic called Padre Nuestro. "It's just unheard of to be able to have these things intact," Beeker said.

But what has the director of one of the US oldest academic diving programs really pumped is that his crew may have also unearthed the touchstones to a new civilization. "These stone artifacts, these tools, are very indicative of a much earlier presence in the area," said scientist Fritz Hanselmann.

"That's what's exciting. To see this site with extinct faunal remains and human contact in the same place," Beeker said. Long before Columbus ever stepped foot in the new world, the IU group now has evidence of human life.


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COMMENTS
62 comment(s)
Written by: yumnuk3, 22 Aug 2009 10:43 AM
From: United States, ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨
http://www.wthr.com/global/video/....396&at1=News&h1=Caribbean discovery&flvUri=
Written by: FredCDobbs This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 11:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Parque Colon statue of Anacaona
way to go Charlie your accomplishments and years of diligence in the DR are truly remarkable ....the citizens owe you a big thank you for helping to uncover their past many times over
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 22 Aug 2009 11:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente

oupala07 here you go again smoking the hate pipe, put it down bro, p.u.t i.t d.o.w.n.!

besides if you're an intellectual I'm freaking Sr.Francis Drake
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 12:12 PM
From: Canada
Old_school_Trinitario,

Bellow is how the Websters English Dictionnary defines hate. Now, tell me where do you find hatred in my comments? Won't you rather say that what's been defined bellow reflects more your people attitude toward mine? I think you want to hear when I say good things about your people and country and despise when I am being objective. i would concur if everything I said was false, but unfortunately for you, it is the whole truth, and I give you entirely "carte blanche" to prove me wrong, for that's how civilized people debate. So, I am waiting your counter argument for everything I said in my previous comments and not empty accusation that translates no value coming from you. Good luck!

Definition of Hate:
1 a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b : extreme dislike or antipathy : loathing <had a great hate of hard work>
2 : an object of hatred <a generation whose finest hate had been big business

Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 12:26 PM
From: Canada
Besides, look how the Yankees are humiliating your country by insulting a high ranking and profiled member of your armed forces and you are not that quick to jump to the hate conclusion. My friend, every great natiion stands by its citizens nationals, and what I've been witnessing from the Third World nations like yours and mine, is an absolute submission to the dictat of the First World ones, while they are ready to spite on their owns.
So, before jumping to hasty conclusion, you better start defending your honor in front of those who thinks that we're nothing but a bunch of economic and touristic retirement colonies for them.
I stand by everything I said until with a civilized debate you shut me up. As for empty and false accusations, I just fly over them.
Written by: Bizc8, 22 Aug 2009 12:48 PM
From: United States
I'll just bypass the "hate debate" and say that the URL, the correct URL that is, to the article/video is found here: http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?s=10951917
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 1:08 PM
From: Canada
Thank you Bizc8 for the link,

It was not the Dominicantoday then that claimed it was "not far from where Columbus first set foot in the Americas", but the Yankees as usual. And you can understand why, because they simply won't acknowledge that the History of this island started in the Western part of it and not in the Eastern part.
As usual, they won't put Haiti on the map the same way they won't acknowledge that the name of the island is Haiti and not that stupid Spanish name that even the Domincans are rejecting.
What my friend Old_School_Trinitario should have done, if he was moved by a certain dose of objectivity, was to correct them and not to accept that flattering lie from someone that could turn into your enemy tommorow, and set the record straight. It would have been more honorable from him instead of complaining about hatred from me.
In these days of high speed information, you can't fool anybody for long before being caught.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 1:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Sloths? Those date back to the ice age (at least 10,000 years ago). They probably swam from South America or Central (unless the lower ocean level due to the Ice age allowed them to walk ot the Caribbean). And those human remains are probably the Fossum and clovis people who then became all the indian tribes in the America.

These tell us that there are Sloths in Cuba, and definitely Mexico.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 1:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Oupala you are defecating through your oral hole again and there is no room for your ignorant excrement here. Near where Columbus landed has NO POLITICAL INTEND! When Columbus landed the island was habitated by the Arawks/Caribb. Then STODGO WAS BORN (1492) and nearly 200 years later you, Saint Domingue, was implanted by bucaneers in 1697! You were officialy recognized by Spain in 1777. Then Hayshit came in 1804.

So you are just a tick and the Hoosiers are correct in describing the location as "near where Columbus landed".
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 1:50 PM
From: Canada
Apart your stinking mouthful rethoric AllumeuseGeneroso, you might have a point. If you can show me that the place they're talking about is located near the San Salvador island, and if you give me a link to the map of the area that concurs your claim, I'll bow to your saying, even if its odour gives me the urge to vomit.
Where's that foul odor comes from? Is it from your words or your mouth? Man, you really need lot of mouthwash.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 1:56 PM
From: Canada
Unfortunately for you my friend FirestarterGeneroso,

I've just checked on Google that the San Salvador Island or Guanahani is located in the Bahamas and that archipelago is no way to be near the Dominican waters. So, I was right in my comments and assessment, and that makes you a sore loser who knows nothing about debating skill.
When did you discover the Internet for the first time? I don't think it was too long ago.
Written by: tschotschua, 22 Aug 2009 2:27 PM
From: Germany, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz
@Oupala007:

Now, Ya can go ahead and tell us:
"Ya was the One to discover AMERICA"

Comm'n Show up yar' Intellect
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 2:50 PM
From: Canada
Tschotschua,

What kind of language is that? I don't think it's German. Be clear and concise and I'll get on the debating bus with you, otherwise I'll stay put at the bus station, and wait for a more serious debater.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 3:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The discovery is along the Romana/Altagracia provinces of DR! And you etien tried to change the topic into one of no "recognizing Haiti". What is your freaking problem septic hole? It is true that Columbus first landed in Bahamas but the discovery is in DR (the first spanish settlement in the AMericas). So what is the freaking problem. Stupid patuac!

"The find was made in an underwater cave along the coast of the Dominican Republic. Not far from where Columbus first set foot in the Americas, an academic dive team from IU made its own discovery."

"The discoveries came just weeks ago in a remote underwater cave in the Dominican Republic called Padre Nuestro."

"The researchers’ focus has been on the era a mere 500 years ago when the Old World and New World first met after Christopher Columbus stepped ashore in the Caribbean-and on scintillating pirate lore."
Written by: BASTA, 22 Aug 2009 3:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs
"The discoveries came just weeks ago in a remote underwater cave in the Dominican Republic called Padre Nuestro." True - I was there when some items came out
Written by: antonioj, 22 Aug 2009 4:06 PM
From: Canada, home safe
I have to sit with oupala on that one, why all that mud slinging when the gentleman he's simply expressing a well thought opinion,which is not a stretch. Old_school_trinitario, I think you jump the gun too fast on that one, as far allumeuse is concerned, who care about him ? he should only allow to post after following his therapy for hunger management.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 4:43 PM
From: Canada
Think you antonioj,

I know that it wouldn't take long before I find myself again in gentlemen company. And once again Firestartergeneroso must stay sober before repeating things that even fourth graders in my country won't say. For his sake let me remind him that the very first Spanish settlement in the Americas was founded in Northern Haiti, and it was the Fort of Nativity (Natividad), which was destroyed by the Kacik Caonabo after Christopher Columbus returned to Spain. That Fort was built with the remains of his Flagship Santa Maria wich sunk in a storm in the vicinity of the present days city of Cap Haitian formerly known as Cap Français.
The very first city was built in the actual Dominican republic, and was named Isabella to honor the then Spanish Queen Isabella the Catholic.
Go review your history book buddy.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 4:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic
THe first Spanish settlement was on Hispaniola! Whose political name was STO DGO! There was no Haiti until 1804! THere was a Saint Domingue from 1697 to 1804! The bottomline is HAITI IS IRRELEVANT!

By the way Isabela was not a town but a "factoria." Factoria meant oppression, lack of property and lack of benefits! The real town was STO DGO where they found gold nuggets!
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 5:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Again, Bayahibe (including Padre Nuestro) is in ROMANA which is in DR! ANd DR is where the first Spanish town was established!
Written by: DivingDominicanRepublic, 22 Aug 2009 5:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bayahibe
These caves are behind my backyard, so beautiful and great walk through the park. Hopefully they won't close them to the public due to all these discoveries
Written by: ateo1992 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 5:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I knew iT!

ancient aliens really existed! :D
Written by: ElCapitan, 22 Aug 2009 7:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Beeker beat Burt Webber to Captain Kidd's wreck too...proving you gotta get outta the bar, off the dock and out to sea to find anything
Written by: undertaker, 22 Aug 2009 7:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Wait a minute i can see the wreck at the end of the dock from the bar. Isnt that good enough?
Written by: old_school_trinitario, 22 Aug 2009 7:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Carlos, barrio de matatanes, aqui no invente
antonioj

you need only to see Mr. oupala07 body of work on this forum and them you'll understand that everything that comes out of his pipehole is dislike and hatred for my culture and everything dominican and by mysterious powers he can't stay away from this website, making unfounded comments based on cook up history, just to show everybody how horrible his life have been ever since he discover he was black.





Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 8:21 PM
From: Canada
Old_School_Trinitario

A sore loser always shows the same symptoms: a-when they are cornered, instead of facing the truth, they always try to sneak out the back door. b- They can't back their objection by facts c- They always tend to overlook important facts d- Most of the time, they don't know what they are talking about.
Of course there is a mistake in my original comment, but you are not intelligent enough to find it, and I am not going to tell you where it is. If you and your buddy Firestartergeneroso were that smart you should have had me shut up long time ago, but I am not going to tell you until you seek and find it yourself. And I will sitll apologize to you when you'll do and explain it to me, but for that to happen, you must be able to use your brain and not your heart.
For, in my world, we don't use emotion when we confront the truth and the lie, we prefer to keep a cool blood and head in order to decipher their subtility, and you're far from doing that.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 8:36 PM
From: Canada
Oh! one more thing. Everybody here already knows that it is a Dominican web site. What your small intellect seems not to understand is that the World Wide Web is a huge village and community that is constantly interacting. It is one of the most democratic community in the world. So, racism and xenophobia have no place in it as long as someone respects others, and you are not living up to its reputation.
What I noticed is that some of you are very reluctant to show attitude with a blogger from Europe or North America that does not state what his/her nationality is. Even though I am from Canada, you feel more comfortable to get on my case because I have declared that I am Haitian.
That kind of attitude makes you even smaller in my eyes.
In a debate, I don't insult people unless they insult me, I will defend my case with them until I run out of argument, but I will never hurt them verbally. and I don't debate subject I know anything about or doesn't do any research on beforehand
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 22 Aug 2009 10:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Oupala do us all a favor, nativity is near Cape Haitien and Fort liberte than your stupid Mole St. Nicolas.

So now the internet got rules? Racism/Xenophobia? Who are you to put forward these rules and what data do you have to support European vs. Haitian poster reaction? Stop imposing on others your daydreams of being a victim!

As far I can tell you have been punch in the face numerous time for distorting and stressing history, geography, and science.

I just checked and Oupala edited his answer to remove his geographical mistake!!!!
Written by: antonioj, 22 Aug 2009 11:01 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Old_School_Trinitario VS oupala07 there must be some on going animosity (beef) here between the two of you, we are definitely off subject. I do not consider old_school as a radical however can you guys perhaps agree to disagree short of being too personal.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 12:09 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I think that trinitario's beef against oupala comes from the line "but it is a good publicity stunt for a country and people moved by a profound desire to rewrite their own history and to seek for a new and more suitable identity, but they can't fool the intellectuals.", in which he implies that we, the country as a whole, are collectively shying away from blackness, which is clearly NOT the case, and if someone doubts this, he/she only needs to look the efforts of our intellectuals to dismantle the educational curriculum that was current during the Trujillo era, and also all the ones that have been carried out to promote the african part of our culture (like the attention received by the Guloya theater of San Pedro or the other manifestations of british west indian origin in our country). If he chooses to ignore this, then it is his problem, but any impartial person with two fingers up front can see that, if something, we're very aware of who we are. (cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 12:21 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont..) the existence or not of hatred on that first post of his could be argued, what can't be argued, however, is that they carry a thinly veiled contempt and disdain in them.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 2:11 AM
From: Canada
Thank you my friend Lautaro,

You see Old_School_Trinitario,

When people are intellingent and good debaters, they pin point mistakes and skid of the tongue from their opponents and corner them. You, on the other hand, were quick to jump to conclusion without even either quoting or highlighting the cause of your anger. I would have gracefully apologize to you if you were as aware as Lautaro to show to me were I faulted, and it is the truth that that sentence of mine :
"but it is a good publicity stunt for a country and people moved by a profound desire to rewrite their own history and to seek for a new and more suitable identity, but they can't fool the intellectuals"

had no business in my comments. It was a bad taste one and I apologize to you all guys.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 2:27 AM
From: Canada
" the very first Spanish settlement in the Americas was founded in Northern Haiti, and it was the Fort of Nativity (Natividad)"

You see my friend Allumeusegeneroso, I've never said that the Fort of Natividad was near the Môle St Nicolas, so, you've got yourself another strike, but in my game you're not out yet.

"now the internet got rules? Racism/Xenophobia? Who are you to put forward these rules and what data do you have to support European vs. Haitian poster reaction? Stop imposing on others your daydreams of being a victim!"

Strike three allumeusegeneroso : racism and xenophobia are feelings and emotions fueled by hatred or discontent, they're not rules on this wonderful web site, for if they were, you wouldn't have such gentlemen like Lautaro, Frank, Antonioj, Basta and all the others who are among the elite here.
You could be at their level too, but you must take a deep breath and accept to reinvent yourself to achieve that.


Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 2:38 AM
From: Canada
"oupala07 here you go again smoking the hate pipe, put it down bro, p.u.t i.t d.o.w.n.!

besides if you're an intellectual I'm freaking Sr.Francis Drake"

No Antonioj, I have nothing particular with our friend Old_School_Trinitario. In fact, it is the first time we have such a "charming" and friendly exchange. All started when he jumped the gun and got on my case with the highlighted sentence above. I know I've been hard on him and our Firestartergeneroso, but they must aknowledge that they've been the agressors.
However, it is okay to have cousins slap each other from time to time, but they must not make it a war, for they must know that, one way or the other, we Haitians are fueled by latin blood and temper too : they are Spanish Latins and I am a French Latin, and when Latin people meat, it is sometimes the bordel all over the place.
I will never keep any hard feeling toward them, but please don't step on my foot guys 'cause it's full with blisters.
Written by: pelaut, 23 Aug 2009 8:13 AM
From: United States
Underwater caves are full of detritus swirled in from the sea over the ages as layers of bottom are uncovered and storms and earthquakes throw the land into the sea. That ancient sloth bones and human bones were discovered in the same underwater cave doesn't mean much until the archeologists put their thumbs on the carbon-dating scales to prove that it does.
Written by: tschotschua, 23 Aug 2009 9:24 AM
From: Germany, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz
Here is another interesting Archaeological Link:

http://mordana.blogspot.com/

"En esta localidad de Barreras se han reportado las fechas mas antiguas de la isla 2190 y 2610 Antes de Cristo lo que sitúa el poblamiento de nuestra isla en unos 5000 años de antigüedad
En 1762 el historiador Luis Joseph Peguero narra algunos datos importantes rescatados por Mañon Arredondo acerca de los doblamientos y algunas características de los pueblos de esta zona"
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 9:33 AM
From: Canada
Pelaut,

Excellent observation my friend, besides, even carbon dating is proved to be unriliable at best. Furthermore, if you take into account the still ongoing battle that is raging among archeologists (i.e. Egyptolog vs archeologist) and their laughable interpretation wars, you can't keep from being skeptical about their science.

Who told us that those remains are not victims (humans and/or animals) that have been caught by giant skids or other sea monsters that dragged them down into those caves and devoured them . Frankly sometimes, I can't keep being amazed how "charming" those scientists and their childish theories are. Our best example is still the "great" Charles Darwin with his funny theory of evolution of the species. I am still seeking for the missing link that relates me to the big apes.
Written by: antonioj, 23 Aug 2009 11:34 AM
From: Canada, home safe
Lat your point is so true, I have made an observation that is also true in Cuba and DR . I think DR will ALWAYS remain a country where the majority is mulattoe, despite the silent invasion from their neighboor from the west, point in fact I base my opinion on how the Dominicnas people intereact among each other, I have noticed "mejorando la raice" that unwriten rules where there is a steady untermingle of black and white, daker & lighter skin to inter-breed. I have some dominican friends and they offsprings are all mulattoes.Such interaction is not as commun in Haiti, I may be wrong.
Written by: santana33, 23 Aug 2009 12:52 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
I'm still rather new to these forums BUT.... is it me or does Oupala always spin the news (and other people's comments) and inject Haiti as a relevant topic.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 1:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Oupala, you are a joker. I didn't come up with the concept of Mole St. Nicolas! That was you, who later edited your post, removed it and then put up Cape Haitian! You are not going to fool. You simply lack character, integrity, and love to twist stories in terms of your septic hole Haiti!
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 23 Aug 2009 3:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
WTF? I signed up to Dominicantoday because I wanted to stay informed about things happening in Dominican Republic not to read some frustrated psycho haitians bs! Why don't you all find your own site about Haiti and stop making a fool of yourselves by showing how jealous you are of us Dominicans by staying all up on our sites!
Written by: santana33, 23 Aug 2009 3:40 PM
From: United States, New York, NY
Word up! @ ojedamagglio
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 4:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
You're not the only one to have observed such phenomenon, antonioj. In fact, many foreign observers have pointed out that the country have the interesting trait of making all the other ethnicities to thin out in favor of the mixed majority one, as if the land itself had the property of forcing the most die hard of racists from one side or the other to throw any caution and inhibition that they might have to the winds, the call of nature being too much to be ignored for long.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 5:30 PM
From: Canada
We don't really have a color problem in Haiti Lautaro, but a money one. In Haiti, it's money that dictates in what class you belong period. However, in the domincan republic, when the police agents storm a public transportation, I am told, they ignore the clear skin Dominicans and are quick to mistreat and ask the blacks for their "cedula". We don't have that in Haiti, if the cops would have acted that way, the country would have been set on fire.
Furthermore, a nation that is moved by a strong sense of kinship always ignore color and other differences among its population. There are Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Pakistanis and Afhgans that are practically fitted with negro features even if their hair is straight, you don't hear the kind of horror stories between them, like the ones we're living mostly every day in our own society, why? Maybe it is because those nations weren't born out of slavery like ours.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 5:43 PM
From: Canada
Besides, a nation which is aware of the diversity among its population must have strict anti racism laws and stiff penalties against any bigot, in order to protect its minority. Failing to do so is a tell tale sign of the government complicity in encouraging the rift among its citizens. I am not going to point my finger at the Dominican government, because I know the politicians are not fully in control of the entire society over there. If they were, People like Allumeusegeneroso should be restricted or sent to reprogramming camps.
No, a nation is a nation whatever how different the colors of its mosaic. Failing to aknowledge that leads to racism and bigotry like in the United States and elsewhere. And by promoting a Taino ancestry which is a light skin one, it's like denying the african roots and side of the nation.

You want to be Indians fine, but don't tell the americans, because they despise the Mexicans just for that origin of theirs which genuine and obvious (my opinion)
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 6:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
In my humble opinion, those tales about random raids and mass deportations have been way too much overblown, cuz' if something, one could say that the DR have been the most laid back in its deportation policies against haitians among all the Caribbean countries on the last five years (as the ever increasing numbers of your countrymen can attest to). Before starting to believe all the slanderous reports, I'd suggest you to pay a visit to the country, and ask any of your countrymen if they have been mistreated, or suggest them to go back to their homeland, and see what answers you will get. Heck, many of them even enjoy having access to the gadgets of modern life (cellphones, ipods, etc.) that they wouldn't dream of having if they were living on PAP or Le Cap. One thing is to have solidarity for the plight of the neighbor, and another different thing is to let him/her run the house and dictate the rules, as many people in Canada and the UK (ASI, Oxfam et. al.) wants it to be.
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 8:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Lautaro, don't let the Haitian interpret to you what goes on in DR!

The Haitian failed to tell you that in his country those that speak french get treated slightly different (like getting a job) that those that speak only Creole. And of course, Haiti is 95 % Negroid so there is no way the Haitian police can discriminate based on skin color! But they can based on speech and/or the way you dress!!!

In fact, Haitian children (repeat offender) have spoken of the Haitian police beating them up when the children are returned back to Haiti (to force the children to cross back to DR)!

Our population (73 % mul, 15 % Whi, 12 % Blac) is very diversed and include many foreign nationals from everywhere! Homogenization is dangerous to the survival of a nation. Even Nature discourages homogeneity. Let's not repeat the Haitian mistake!
Written by: antonioj, 23 Aug 2009 8:07 PM
From: Canada, home safe
allumeuse part 1 have some thruth I agree to that, however part 2 diversity is nice to have but your claim homogenity is dangerous for the survival of a nation, are you freakn nuts ?? about japan, india, korea, china, eastern europe ect..
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 8:53 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
It would be impossible for anyone to make me interpret differently the dominican reality, allumeuse, as I interact with haitians every single day when taking the public transportation on my way to the workplace and when I'm on the college campus, and believe me, the majority of them would gladly go back to their homeland, if the latter place would offer the things that they're getting here, namely, the chance of having three meals a day, fancy clothes, access to education and healthcare (even though these services are not first class, it's better having something rather than nothing), and most of all, the chance of helping their families in the fight against poverty. Judging by my experience, I'd say that the people here are rather laid back with the haitian inmigrants presence here, contrary to what is happening in many other places receiving heavy inmigration worldwide. (Cont...)
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 8:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
(cont...) Heck, I'd have to say that the dominican populace's behavior with the inmigrants have been, overall, rather exemplary, if I were to compare it to what I have witnessed (and experienced firsthand) during my trips to the US and Western Europe (specially in Spain, where I was first acquainted with the term "sudaca", I was like WTF is wrong with these people?)
Written by: allumeuseGeneroso This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 9:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Antonio, I meant that from the life point of view, heterogeneity is the better weapon against external (environmental) and internal (viruses) stresses that can threaten human kind. Also heterogeneity, will yield the best people for the task at hand (whether sports, manual labor, repetitive tasks, creativity, thinking tasks, miss universe, governance, project management, engineering, etc.).

Japan is an overpopulated island. That overpopulation and being water surrounded STRESSES the japanese to innovate. Similarly India. China also overpopulation and geographical isolation forced them too! Easter europe forget them they benefited from both Asia and the Roman/Greece empires!
Written by: antonioj, 23 Aug 2009 9:44 PM
From: Canada, home safe
Allumeuse, your clarification does make sense in the context that you frame it. Lat a refresh of the gene pool for Haiti will not harm, that phenomenon have been happening in DR at a very rapid pace since the last 50 years. The last mass immigration from the middle east toward Haiti was early 20's and late 30's
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 9:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
It's a regrettable thing that many people over there distrust this principle, antonio. Unfortunately, one can't exactly blame them for thinking that way, as the outside world hasn't been too kind with them, to put it mildly.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 10:04 PM
From: Canada
Lautaro,

I have to desagree with you, the safest country for a foreigner has always been Haiti, if it wasn't so we wouldn't have an elite which is more than 98% white or mulatto. Forget about the bullshit of the jewish and the the Arabs persecution, it wasn't by the population, it was by the elite which did not want competition from those poor whites migrants the same way your population does not want competition from our harder workers peasants. And you can't tell me that for the last 40 years you have heard that a foreigner has been killed in our country because he was not wanted.
No, things have improved a lot it is the truth, but if I had to get to my archives and draw all the hatred and documented killings of Haitians nationals that have occured on your country, you would have said that I have fabricated and swollen the number.
Things have cooled down, and it is for the better, for your country knows that it can't afford to have the border shut down and lose more than
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 10:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I concur with you on the fact that it's the elites that don't want outsiders to settle on the country, just the ban against expats like you from exerting influence on their country's affairs is enough to make any outside observer to realize this, oupala. I seriously hope to see the day when that stupid ban is lifted, cuz' the expats' expertise is sorely needed right now. It's a crime to prevent people from helping their country of origin just because of some petty jealousies.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 10:18 PM
From: Canada
600 millions dollars of bilateral trade of which it holds an overwhelming advantage. I know that there are still good and decent people over there (you are the living proof), but in all, I wouldn't settle in your country even though I would have been offered a Castle over there, because I am pretty certain that there are many more locos like FirestarterGeneroso in the picture.

Antonioj,

That kind of crap you are discussing with our friend Allumeuse is degrading for you, him and the Dominican Republic. Discussion like this, you don't even hear about them in Germany, and they are not encouraged either. You are falling prey to the man instability, if everything he said was the truth, How come the Brezilians are becoming more and more a mulatto nation? What was the original color of the indigenous inhabitants of Brazil? Did someone ask them whether or not they wanted to stay indians or to become metis?
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 10:29 PM
From: Canada
And the same thing can be said for every single country in the New World where the indigeneous nations have been either slaughtered, assimilated or parked in reserved the same way the Dominicans park their desenfrenchised into bateys.
My friend there will be always be race and ethnic interaction under the influence of economic of geopolitics needs. Why do you think the whole world is full with French and British nations Whites or not?
There is only one way to stop the so called Blackness in the making of the dominican country, it is to be serious about immigration illegal or not. As long as they will let their industrialists keep enticing our peasants to come and do for cheap the heavy duty jobs that the lazy dominicans won't do, they will witness a Black tide coming from the East, and believe me they will darken them unless they fix the illegal trade problem or do like White South Africa did by instauring the Apartheid, but would they have the gut to do that.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 10:47 PM
From: Canada
There is no ban on the Diaspora elite Lautaro, those SOB condition their return to help with the grant of double citizenship. Most of us in the country object because that Diaspora of ours is more interested in annexing us to the United States than to come and developped us. And I am a staunch adversary of the double citizenship even though I am a naturalized Canadian citizen.
If we allow this to happen, I bet with you that within less than a decade Haiti won't be a state any more, but another territory like Porto Rico.
Some will argue that it will be good for the masses, but I will always answer to them, yeah! If it will be good for them the majority of the Blacks Americans would have had the living standard of the strongly mixed Porto Rican population. No my friend, I know my history well, and I know how the yankees treated my people on their first occupation in 1915, and I will never trust them not to do the same thing.
Written by: antonioj, 23 Aug 2009 10:56 PM
From: Canada, home safe
@oupala
Antonioj,

That kind of crap you are discussing with our friend Allumeuse is degrading for you, him and the Dominican Republic. Discussion like this, you don't even hear about them in Germany, and they are not encouraged either. You are falling prey to the man instability, if everything he said was the truth, How come the Brezilians are becoming more and more a mulatto nation? What was the original color of the indigenous inhabitants of Brazil? Did someone ask them whether or not they wanted to stay indians or to become metis? "

Go back an re-read we are discussing homegenity, I do not see why you should be so benovolent, there are merits to what he said. Believe me you (je je) I do NOT share allumeuse point of view in alot of aspect, however let's keep an open mind here.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 11:02 PM
From: Canada
Antonioj,

I can talk about homogeneity with anybody, even with you. It's not the fact you are talking about it, it is the reason and the context that count. Hitler could be a racist all he wants, besides, who is not? It is the reason why he declare himself a racist and a race purist that made him a danger.
I think you are smart enough to read me between the lines.
Written by: oupala07 This user is banned, 23 Aug 2009 11:03 PM
From: Canada
I must stop here boys, I have to review a keyboard lesson and I am late on it (music is fun). I'll be online later maybe in one or two hours.
Written by: Lautaro, 23 Aug 2009 11:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Intent is the codeword in that context, oupala. What the person does with those feelings is what matters in the end.
Written by: kfisher, 24 Aug 2009 4:49 AM
From: United States
Wait a minute. Is this the same Charlie Beeker who was invited down by the Patramonio Society to view the remains of what was believed to be Captain Kidd's ship the Queda Merchant. Then in a television documentary for all the world to see lied and said he was the one who discovered it! Not giving true credit to the actual people who found it. Claiming that it was in fact Kidd's ship, even though not a shred of proof as to the identity was found?
Mr Beeker you are supposed to be a man of science, but from what I can see you rely too much on speculation and miss-representation for anyone to take you seriously.

"Lie to me once shame on you, Lie to me twice, shame on me!"
Go back to Indiana and peddle your BS, we've already seen you first hand.
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