"He said the country has been filled with Haitians" no kidding three more millions and we for centairly will going to go into a civil war.

I am tired of hearing this news from DR. I am in lost for words why is that you Dominican are not talking to your government. Why Dominican fail to see the politic and smoke screen attitude being use by the Gov. I am an Haitian leaving in the State I /ve travelled to Dr several times as well as Haiti. We are dealing with two corrupt Gov. I am beggig you guys I am against this flood happening in your country. This Haitians need to be sent back what the hell. And maybe the Haitian gov will start stepping up to the plate to take care of these people. To the world everything is bad in Haiti, well news flash. It's not the case just like DR certain area in Haiti they drive nothing the latest vehicles, own mini mansions and Have family in the state supporting. There is enough money in Haiti traveling through the GOv I know and seen it. Once DR start sending back and a serious pressure from the rest of the world I am sure they ll start to do things differetly...Again a prosperous Haiti means a

A prosperous DR...trust me..Dominican please let your voice be heard...let your gov know how you feel. tell them to stop lying to you guys. Haitians in DR equal cheap labor and more money for some officila because all they have to do is look away

I am sure Civil War is not what the Cardinal is encouraging. He is demanding for a direct concise definitive law which state who are legals and who are illegals as he also baring in mind that by not having a clear status for them renders the situation to be a confused one because he knows that as much as we can deem all the Haitians who crossed over without documentation to be illegals, he also knows we can not deem those whom have been born on Dominican soils to be illegals as well.

Thus the confusion is where should the line be drawn and with what firm regularity under the law should this drawn line be implemented and accordingly with regards and respect to actual Human Rights. So in essence, what the over all demand the Cardinals is begging for here is something called Immigration Reform. Reform does not necessarily mean there will be leniency to the illegal Haitians, reform could simply also mean that the DR government need to stand on the bottom firm clear line as it reserves the rights to do so how it deems what legality is. Because placing someone under the "In Transition" status or category still does not address the problem and it is not a solution.

What I believe in my humble opinion to might be a better solution is: DR (Meaning the government) needs to make it a law against the hiring of undocumented Haitians. Hoping without corruption law enforcers would have to be very proactive at it cracking down on Dominican or Haitian human traffickers. The DR government would have to firmly and forcefully be engaged in a campaign that would punish severely without favoritism, bias, prejudice or discrimination any employer who actually hire undocumented thus illegal Haitians.

There are laws. There is no enforcement. Solve that problem and you are on the way to solving all of our problems.

However that would be tricky, because as much as the DR government would be cracking on undocumented thus illegal Haitians, it needs to also allow a certain path to legalization if illegal Haitians come out of the shadow, willing to pay appropriate taxes and seek legal representation to plead their cases and must go through the proper waiting period the DR government deems right and even then, this would not mean to be a guaranty for such illegal that he/she would actually get legalized. Such a path would have to be all across the broad for all illegals regardless of creed that they are Haitian. Which means the DR government would have to be proactive at tracking down other foreigners whom are in the Country illegally as well that it does not looks like it is a campaign being raged solely against the Haitians alone.

StanEarl,

Great post on the issue. The best post I've heard from a Haitian. Looks like you really understand the issue at hand. It's a serious problem that needs to be solved by the DR and Haitians need to cooperate when repatriations take place.

Again, I do agree with the cardinal. But, he should not mingle with political issues. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. The Catholic church has no business getting involved in such topics.

"There are laws, but there is no enforcement. Solve that problem and you are on the way to solving all of our problems."

So if there are laws yet they are not being enforced. This does not fall on the back of the illegal immigrants now. Because immigrants who migrate anywhere doe so for the same goal and basic purposes, I think. Which is, they are all in search of a better life than the life they have held wherever they are coming from. I feel that DR has not been proactive enough to reform its migratory laws much less enforcing it. As perhaps it has not found either, a way to capitalize off this accordingly which might be due to racial xenophobic reasons and deep resentments most Dominicans may held against Haitians which many perceive to be discriminatory and violates at times human rights.
P.S: I really feel if DR allows a certain path to legalization to certain law abiding Haitians whom willingly have come forward to go through legal due processes would be better a solutio

NY4LIFE, it baffles me how each time you categorize me as simply Haitian when I am both Dominican and Haitian. This view is not coming form me as a view from my Haitian side of me; but it is coming from an impartial side of me which have an infinite love for the Island as a whole.

wonderful rejoinder, Lopez 31. maybe he should just busy himself looking for rodents in that ridiculous hat of his. if the country is like "a loose goat", where anybody can come and go, then why is he only addressing the comings and goings of Haitians? maybe he should also shudder once in a while about the loose goat movements of druglords from hither, thither, and yon.

there are also many illegal columbian. no papers then you should leave and only come back if you have a visa.

Lopez I truly understand your point, but from the begining of time the church have occupied a big place in politics unfortunatly. Although the constitution say other wise but they are still running things in politic. The church is like the Elite brother. They are a rich and powerful group..

Afrolatino the other foreigner are not as much as the Haitian migration. It's over a quater f a million which I am sure if the Haitian Gov had any heart would of make sure stays in Haiti and help the agriculture sector. Because most of these folks if not all are from the country side and mind you own lands acres of lands, but since the Haitian Elite obliterated agriculture. Therefore, they migrate towards DR for a better life. Also the rest need to be dealt with accordingly cause they are also a threat. However, it need to be dealt (humanly fashion)

I like this site. I am coming across more intelligent Dominicansand Haitians. I really appreciate chatting with you guys, because you understand the true situation of the island

Anyhow, DR needs to proactively also start engaging and directly pressing the Haitian government to act on the issue appropriately by giving proper documentations to all Haitians within Haitians borders so if and when they migrate into DR they will me documented.

Point is, many Dominicans do not know that all that is required of a Haitian to have to be legal is proper documentations that can identify them. Such documentation can be a valid passport, a birth certificates or a Haitian identification card and after that, there is a possible Custom Border Crossing fee. Unfortunately, the ones that DR are calling illegals, are Haitians that do not even hold a Haitian birth certificate or any documentations due to lack of administrative infrastructure herein there is in Haiti.

One can admit that indeed that falls on the Haitian government and not the DR's government... As due to lack of economy Haiti doe not have the means to improve such infrastructural discrepancy that easily

Stan,

Exactly! That is why I am not opposing the building of a Wall at the border so much anymore as I used to. Yeah I am not totally for it, however, I truly feel that if DR were to build this wall by leaving only the points where actual market exchanges are made.

That would discourage many Haitians to want to cross if they know they will be caught more easily. Also DR could also start charging a regulatory Custom fee in certain points it would deem as visiting customary points where proper documented legal Haitians could enter the DR and be asked of the purpose, nature; the duration and where exactly such individual will be into the Country for the given time of their trip.

With such infrastructure, it would make it more imperative and easier for Dominican law enforcements to uphold such migratory laws and to also crack down on human traffickers. This would of course require the initiatives of both shared-border nations to have personnels at these points.

afro,
that sounds good, don't know why no one takes action. Who are they waiting for?

I would think that a representative of the Catholics should be more careful the way s/he talks when freedom is in question. Shame on you cardinal, a human is a human no matter if you are Dominican.
Law enforcement is clearly the problem in the Dominican side. Maybe someone is taking advantage of the situation some way or another.

The reason why I may oppose the wall is due to the Eco-imbalance it may cause to the fact that this means little the the animals and wildlife which depends on an open border to survive regardless or even though we as humans of both Dominicans and Haitians seem to can not get along.

Other than that reason above, I could care less if DR were to build the tallest wall at the border... perhaps this would with invert means make Haitians and their government start working harder and make sh!t work on their side. I think India (East Asia) did it and they are more productive for it today... I sympathize with the humanitarian aspects of the condition, still, there comes a time where and when Haiti and Haitians need to start owning up and step up at making the effort to have some kind of self-sufficiency.

I believe most people from Haiti come to the DR because they are desperate and they are looking for money to buy enough food to live on and sometimes they send alittle back through Western union who take a huge commission ,,The only answer is to quickly assist Haiti get off the bottom shelf and for jobs to be created , In this regard I believe the Obama´s administration has started to do things with Bill Clinton and there was an article here about British aid and the French need to do more ..but the answer to the immigration problem is definitely to make Haiti more prosperous.
Much the same problem exists now in South Africa where it is estimated that there are 15 million illegal immigrants from poor neighbouring countries.
I do not personally see any problem with the church speaking up on social issues and giving their views but they must not try to manipulate. There are some wonderful church leaders and I think the current Archbishop of Canterbury is outstanding

Ricky gives us this

I believe most people from Haiti come to the DR because they are desperate and they are looking for money to buy enough food to live on and sometimes they send alittle back through Western union who take a huge commission

no shit, Sherlock. you only believe it? you mean you are not sure? you cannot be that out of touch with reality that your assessment is only a belief. most of us know DEFINITIVELY that most haitians who come here are desperate.

Great posting. StanEarl good to see this refreshing insight from a Haitian.

Well it's a little akward. Dominicans desperately trying to get abroad and the Haitians trying to get in the Dominican Republic. Both doing the hard and dirty work far from own people and both being abused especially when they are illegal.

And our Cardinal again not speaking for the poor and the abused. All in the spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Just one question: aren't the Haitian not God's children anymore?.

obviously some people do not understand the difference between believe and think which is sad and can lead to inappropriate responses

and, Ricky, there is a big difference between "to believe" and to know. some intellectuals claim philosophically that to believe is the antithesis of "to know" . people who say that they believe something are relying on second hand information. i believe that the earth is round, given all the data to support the contention. but, i do not KNOW it. because i do not have the instrumentation, nor the intellectual wherewithal to do the measurements myself. it is the same as the moon's distance from earth. i believe those who quote it, but i have never been myself, and so i do not KNOW. In your case, you BELIEVE that haitians come here for a better shot at life. but you do not KNOW. because you live in a fog. you have no grounding in reality. real estate. maybe, reality,no.

you just stab in the dark for an argument and always miss the target ..is sad

i do not miss the target. you miss the point. i told you before that this internet posting is not for the faint of heart. if you are going to start with me by saying "i have no idea where Dreadlocks believes....", then you are starting a rumble. because i never run my mouth off without knowing what i am speaking about. and, even if i am wrong, i can mount a sensible argument in defense of my error. you write like a paid government hack living in the LAND OF OZ. you are the type of guy who examines only developments which affext YOU AND YOUR FELLOW TRAVELLERS, and call it an indicator of how far the country has progressed. because your golfing buddies can now buy 10 million peso condos. listen, sonny, do not get me started. when i see a young shoe shine boy with diabetes having to wait 3 days to accumulate 600 pesos for insulin, when thieving government officials whom you lionise are stealing everything that is not nailed down, then i go medieval. and you talk about cheap MRI

and cat scans. that is for you, you selfish twit. where is the progress for the poor? yes, those who cannot buy 300,00 dollar apartments, or live beside you? guys like you boil my blood. you probably support the idea of the metro, politically, but would not be caught dead on it with all the riff raff from places like Los Mina. get a grip, man. you can be better than this.

You guys wanna know my belief and knowledge. It goes a little something like this. The Haitian who migrated to DR are poor compare to a lot of us, but not that poor. A lot of them are simply greedy for lock of a better word because from what I know, (Remember I was born in Haiti guys) these people own acres of furtile land and live stocks in the country side. However, they simply refuse to work with what they have. They refuse to cultivate, instead they rather sell some if not all of the lands to either by a visa to the U.S or cross to DR. Therefore, I believe if DR take action I mean real action on the border and start charging the Haitian some hefty tax, that will discourage a lot of them.

So Afrolatino, if the Haitian government gives its citizens proper documentations, all can simply cross the borders, migrate into DR and they will be legal because they have Haitians documents that identify them?

You see, I never heard that our government has established an open border policy with Haiti. I, wrongly, was under the impression that to enter legally to my country, besides identification, you need a visa and to work legally, a work permit or work contract. Therefore all Haitians, with or without documents, who don’t have a visa or whose visa expired are in fact illegal, because to be legal, like in USA, you have to apply and qualify for a Dominican resident card.

you see that you are stabbing again thinking I am a traveller , thinking I play golf with rich men,thinking that I have no sympathy for a poor guy and thinking that I have spoken about cheap MRI ...the problem is that you only want to fight here with people here who do not necessarily agree with you and this article is a great example where you preferred to use a verb to know rather than to believe which is petty ..maybe I have a little more humility that I always leave the door ajar that I may not be totally correct and use less strident words ..just a suggestion you may care to consider .

I think ,note the verb, that if you look at many of your postings here , where you may dislike what is written for what ever reason you may have , you will see that you prefer to attack in a way that many people would think uncalled for rather than just presenting your own views . I noted in your attacks on the property development you just refused to acknowledge that there was another point of view .I also seem to sense a distaste for the DR if it is not moving forward exactly as you want .

i have disagreed vehemently with people on this forum, and i have kept an even keel. but when you disagree with my contention about central banks manipulating exchange rates, and state that you are a well trained economist, as if to say i do not know what i am talking about, then you have declared war, in my mind. and, everyone on this forum knows i fight to the death.

StanEarl What you said might have been the situation many years ago. Today is really hard to believe that thousands and thousands of Haitians, working sometimes only for food, may be landowners in Haiti. That they chose to work long hours in our farms, live in shacks, eat plantains and cracked rice with dry fish, and sleep in a bed of leaves, for few pesos a day in a country where they are not really appreciated, with a different language and way of living. What that has to do with greed? Besides I guarantee that anyone that can buy a visa to USA do not qualified as Haitian immigrant in DR.

well in that case I think you are more than a little silly and not worth the time in responding to .

i feel the same about you. in my case, i think you are more than "a little silly". and, if you do not belong to the golfer crowd, you sure sound like you want to be more than anything else. with time, you will be baked, i hope. right now, you are still in the oven.

vacanos
willl you leave the comfort of your apartment in New York to go lend a hand in that civil war.
you are too much of a coward to do so

Micaela hard to swallow but its the truth. Most of us do have a rather confortable life in our home land according to the living standards on the island. But we still find our way in the U.S for better. Not to blow my own horn my family back in Haiti are far from being poor. I have reside in three different countries, but guess what we still found ourselves in the U.S because we felt it was better. My family came here in the late 60's guess what my grandfather worked in a factory for less than $2, getting humiliated and desrespected because he wanted more and better. Also, if you don't know, these country folks don't know the process most of them can't barely read so how do u expect them to know the proper way to acquire anything.
Mexico is doing well, doesnt't Mexican still come over to the U.S. if you meet an Haitian in the st ask them if they wanna sell you some piece of land and see what happen...

StanEarl please, dont tell me that most Haitians have a comfortable life in Haiti. How could then Haiti be the poorest country in America and one of the poorer of the world, with the lower level of everything, from health care, education, infrastructure, basic service, human rights to basic human dignity? We all know about the Haitian elite. Those mulatos and rich blacks responsible for the present situation of the country. But they have nothing to do with people that did not eat today and have not idea if they will eat tomorrow, that have not water to take a bath, hospitals that offer basic care, therefore, preventable and already eradicated deceases in most countries are rampant in Haiti.

I believe you, your family in Haiti is far from being poor, but that doesn't translate into that most Haitians do have a rather comfortable life in Haiti, according to no standard.

Brother or Sister I did not say most Haitian. Beside, the Haiti you hear about or see on the news have u ever been to Haiti? it's like talking about China's or India economic problem when I never set foot on their land. It' s not all the rich blacks responsible. If you wanna place blame there is a lot to go around my Gov your Gov and others that shall remain nameless ...trust me

There is an Haiti that only a few from the outside world have witness and visited. Don't just really on what you hearing about Haiti the same thing I said for Dr it deeper than the nice hotel and resort that the world sees everyday. Because I have been to both part on a regular basis

Sister and sorry. I understood that when you say "Most of us do have a rather comfortable life in our home land according to the living standards on the island" you mean most Haitians. Anyway, yes I have been in Haiti several times and have good friends there. Now tell me that the government and elite are not responsible for the Haitian situation. How far should we go. To the president that took from Trujillo pennies for each Haitian killed in 1937? Or maybe to Duvalier and his son or Aristide? Are you aware that the money of the international help never gets to where is intended , but ends up in some international banks accounts or that 5% of the Haitians control 90 % of the resources and is not about to share, redistribute or use it to help the general population anytime soon? Under that circumstances, that come from far away in time, how come they are not responsible and you have to come, lest say to my government?

Cardinal ,principe de la iglesia vaticana catolica.idolatra de la Virgen Maria y de todos los santos nombrados ......... La historia del mundo es tambien los hombres en migration.Ver que los haitianos represantan un problema enDR es que la iglesia es responsable de eso.

Cardinal ,principe de la iglesia vaticana catolica.idolatra de la Virgen Maria y de todos los santos nombrados ......... La historia del mundo es tambien los hombres en migration.Ver que los haitianos represantan un problema enDR es que la iglesia es responsable de eso.

The Dominican Ayatollah has spoken!

This statement by the Cardinal, makes me wanna believe in GOD!!!

Micaela

Have you heard the expression you don' t argue with a fool because from afar people can not tell the difference. It's obvious this young man Stan do not know crap about what he is talking about, just happy to be on the forum. You know more about Haiti than he does and I assume you are not Haitian. Let the young man know he needs to go get some knowledge before coming here posting like a clown.

"""He said the country has been filled with Haitians, for which he called on the government to have a defined policy in that topic to establish who has right to be legitimately in the country and who doesn’t. """"

Now substitute Spanish where is says Haitian.

Would this hold true when the church invaded this country in the 1500's? Perhaps the Tainos should have made similar statements.

Pat there is a difference between arguing and debating. Since you seem to know a lot more, please enlighten me, Sir

@ Mr Earl

First and foremost must Haitian who left Haiti in the 60's did not left Haiti for better economic life abroad,Haiti economy did not fall apart until the early 80's most fled from the Duvalier regime. Second It was not the Haitian elite that destroys the Haitian agricultural sector it was IMF and world bank policies of the 80's. Those farmers are leaving their land because they can no longer compete with the cheap imports of rice and goods coming from Miami . While the US farmer get government subsidies countries like Haiti was not allow to subsidize their farming. This is not only happening in Haiti but also thru out South America where the farmers are abandoning their fields for what they think will be a better life in the cities. People finally wake up to these IMF misguided policies last year when you had food riot all over the world when commodity prices went to the roof due to market speculations.

Wow, Pat I hope some of the stuff u mentioned were thue Brother. But I ll send u my response in the next 4hrs, my flight is Boarding...Peace

However, if you say that the haitian Gov is responsible that I will agree with. Because it's obvious that these fools are locking creativity and morales. The should of controlled the amount of product s that's they import from the U.S

Brother we lieve by information, not by sight. We exist by faith in others. The ear is the sidedoor of the truth but the front door of lies. The truth is generally seen rarelly heard ("Balthasar Cracian")

Wow! StanEarl, how many of you are writing here, besides the ones that wrote the messages at 11:38, 1:11 and 7:21. The best English speaker, of course, is the 11:30. If I were you, I would not allow 7:21 to use your name, is really difficult to understand what he tried to say.

lol...wow. was up Micaela well I am in DR right now and my little cousin wanted to express himself.

Ayatollah Nicky has the moral authority of Charles Manson to speak out on anything!