From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
chickens coming home to roost ...............they should have built them better
Written by: juanb, 11 Jan 2010 10:06 AM
From: Dominican Republic
They see us disrespecting and ignoring all laws but, they don't realize that we are the "entitled" people and that they are not.
Written by: Atabey, 11 Jan 2010 10:28 AM
From: United States, NYC
Perhaps some good will come out of this, if the measures to attract and retain native laborers are instituted. Why this should surprise the construction industry and others is the real news. I agree with the comments of Blutarsky and Juanb. Would add that it's high time a verifiable internal documentation system were instituted on both sides of the border. True organization, structure and respect for the laws of the land are badly needed. As with any nation, the buck stops with the people and leadership of the DR.
Written by: ateo1992 
, 11 Jan 2010 10:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This is good in a way. now is when we are starting to open our eyes, and know that this savages can't be tolerated at all!.
From: United States, New York City
"Bring on the Dominican construction workers "
Yes, bring on the Dominican construction worker. It's only their country. Aussie jerk.
Written by: Atabey, 11 Jan 2010 10:50 AM
From: United States, NYC
ateo1992,
Dude, what's up with that? This is 2010 not colonial times!
From: United States, New York City
The business sector is FINALLY seeing the other side of the coin in their dealings with illegal haitian immigration, which the business sector up until now has not only tolerated but in many instances facilitated. This is the beginning of a serious change in the way the Dominican state views the illegal haitian hordes now in the country. Mark my words. The sector of the population that really matters as far as the centers of power are concerned has spoken and it's only a matter of time before their concerns lead to concrete action.
Written by: msjersey, 11 Jan 2010 10:58 AM
From: United States, New Jersey(Cibaeno/Los mina)
oh oh.
From: United States, New York City
"Dont bet on it - The business sector will ALWAYS exploite the weakest in their urge for profite."
I think that this marks a turning point for the illegal Haitian community in DR for the reason I already mentioned. Now we'll have to wait to see which one of us is correct in their assesment. Again people, mark my words.
Written by: Letmic, 11 Jan 2010 11:12 AM
From: Australia, Hispanola
Hey cibaeño75 are you having a nice day?
I am speaking from 8 years of direct experience working on numerous construction projects in the Dom Rep and Haiti. I have NO positive results to report by using Dominican workers and supervisors. They have proven themselves repeately to be lazy and they lie and cheat on an hourly basis. However the Haitian workers are hard working, turn up on time and when treated fairly and with respect conduct themselves in a calm and productive manner. I have 30million of projects under my belt on which I have based my comments. What did you contribute? Pointing out that Dominicans live in their country and that I am a jerk? Huge contribution to the debate - simple minded prick.
Written by: xwill7, 11 Jan 2010 11:15 AM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
people are sick of this and want them out... fire them and go to rural areas and hire dominicans
From: United States, New York City
"simple minded prick."
You come from a whole nation of pricks...a nation descended from the scum of Britain's jails and the surplus of her whore houses who's only contribution to western society has been Crocodile Dundee. For a person that seems to make a pretty good living on Dominican soil to then turn around and badmouth the sons of the very nation that allows him to butter his bread speaks volumes as to what type of person they are. Good day "sir".
Written by: clinker, 11 Jan 2010 11:42 AM
From: Dominican Republic
"Can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King, Los Angeles
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Blinded by ignorance must of you just skim thru the article and felt to see the bigger picture.
From: United States, New York City
"Cibaeno75 - are you a Dominican? I can't imagine an American being so pathetic and narrow minded. "
I'm actually American-Dominican, thank you very much. Yes, all that you say about Australia is true but the fact remains that your forefathers where whore, pimps, and muderers en masse.
"As to working over here in the DR and Haiti rebuilding crumbling infrastructure. What an evil bastard I must be. "
Oh, no. You can't be evil. I'm sure your doing it for altruistic purposes and as a result your working for a pitance or maybe for free. Be serious. Now you're trying to paint youself as some type of huminatarian. Get a clue clown.
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
Cibao,
The proof is in the pudding, I too will side with Letmic, all those teenagers you see in the streets don't even respect their own family what would make you think any of them are able to take orders from anyone. Let alone work on a contruction site. Dominicans now, want to sit back and wait for a couple of dollars to come from a relative thats in the states and dream of picking dollars off the trees in NY. But, all the fault can't be blamed on the dominican public for acting this way. The President is to blame for not educating the masses and for not showing discipline to his children of the dominican republic.
Leo you prick, you had 10 years to create a new class of dominicans and you failed. You should be impeached and your wealth should be questioned.
Written by: xwill7, 11 Jan 2010 11:57 AM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
sanky viking,
the people will take matters into their own hands... It has begun. People say that Dominicans don't want haitian jobs??? I know people in rural areas that would work any open job
Written by: LaVerdad, 11 Jan 2010 12:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santiago
Whore/ pimps? murderers? take it easy manito. Being condemned to prison, historically, does not confirm that you did anything wrong. The United States was founded by "criminals" engaged in criminal activity. RD would still belong to spain if not for "criminals". Laws are man made and Justice is not always meted out fairly. Be careful when you speak negatively about all people who have been convicted by governments and courts. Sinceramente.... La Verdad!
From: United States, New York City
RobertoJose, Dominicans are hard working people and if that hasn't been demonstrated to you by individuals in your own family, well then, I feel sorry for you. The fact is the Dominicans will do all the jobs that the haitians are doing in DR now and would gladly do them, but not for the pitance that the haitians are paid. It's the same here. Native born Americans abound in construction jobs here and are more than willing to do such work, but they won't do said labor for the same money that some illegals worker would be willing to do it for. It's simple.
If you feel the the Dominican people are such scum, RJ, then please don't ever tell anyone your Dominican and carry on. There are those of us that are proud enough of the people they stem from that they more than make up for those such as yourself.
From: United States
yes, show your ugly sides !
Written by: Belly, 11 Jan 2010 12:10 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Letmic
Would you care to name project in the million that you have under your belt in DR I would really love to know? Name a few and where they are located. I'm just interested to know since I have a lot of local knowledge of both Haiti and DR.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 12:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
As we would say over here: "Lo barato sale caro", namely, that what appears to be cheap at first sight might come up being costly in the end. The people in the business sector are learning this the hard way. Esta muy bueno que les pase, para que aprendan a no privar en angurriosos. I won't shed any tears for them, cuz' like the french colonists on their day, any person that builds his/her fortune around slavery is basically laying out the foundations of his/her own ruin.
Written by: Belly, 11 Jan 2010 12:40 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
So according to all these so call master minds of the Dominican workforce with millionssss in projects under their belt Dominican workers are lazy,thief and everything else on the books that you can call us but the funny thing is somehow we have managed to keep our country in better shape economically and in literacy of the general public. Yo quiero que me expliquen eso por que Ya yo no entiendo como dice la cancion "Y como lo hace yo nose".
From: United States, New York City
"yes, show your ugly sides !"
You've never seen me but....I have no ugly side!!:)
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Letmic,
I worked for over 12 years in several Dominican Free Zones in both Santo Domingo and Santiago, and let me tell you that my experience as supervisor and manager is very different to what you mentioned, the majority of Dominican workers are very approachable, opened, receptive, smart, and easy to mould to company's core objectives. honor and character comes with every person and this is part of every supervisor job to identify the black sheeps. I don't have experience with Haitian workers because they were not hired in Free Zones (when I worked there), but I just cannot trust someone that in his insides bets on the horse that competes against me and my country, judging on the comments of the Haitian community in this site, this same sentiment is found on more than 50% the individuals I read here...this is a highly risky business for my taste.
From: Dominican Republic, No Spin Zone
You Tell Em Bobby Jo
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
Belly,
"somehow we have managed to keep our country in better shape economically and in literacy of the general public"
You're not serious, right? Everything so far is on borrowed money and time. There is no disapline in 90% of the general public, theirfore, there is no government provided education for the majority public to have a literacy out come. Tu eres un BRUJO you can for see the future after Leo is gone.
Written by: Belly, 11 Jan 2010 1:12 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
RobertoJose
You're not serious, right? Everything so far is on borrowed money and time. There is no disapline in 90% of the general public, theirfore, there is no government provided education for the majority public to have a literacy out come. Tu eres un BRUJO you can for see the future after Leo is gone.
Caballero si usted no entiende el tema de que se estas hablando en mi comentario, Por que usted se molesta en escribir algo que no tiene sentido y que facilmente puede ser verificado por los numeros de cada pais. Compai piense bien antes de hablar por que si usted lee mi comentario y el suyo se dara cuenta que usted esta hablando baba. Yo pense en responderle con la pueba pero depues pense, Si el no entiende mi comentario anterior para que confundo mas ha este tiguerito.
From: United States
Seriously, what are the rumor based scenario being proposed by those in the construction industry in the DR. The Haitians are defying them as a group. WOW!!!! So I guess the Haitians are ALL in a conspiracy to overthrow them. Bringing in local Dominicans that is going to make it all better. They did not use Dominicans for a good reason and I suspect the Haitians are catching on as well.
I am wondering how logic like this make news.
From: United States, New York City
"You're Delusional and You're mind is clouded.
Not one time have i said Dominicans are scum, Thats your chain of thought. "
Listen, I am neither delusional nor is my mind clouded. If you need a reminder you agreed with a poster that called Dominicans thieves and lazy. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you go jumping on bandwagons. As for my chain of thought there is no need for you to guess as to what it is nor to assign opinions that are not mine because unlike you I can enunciate my thoughs with precision and with little room left for interpretation.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Crabmaster,
This is about management of Human Resources, conduct, cross-cultural sensitivity, lack of ethics and values, lack of composture...This kind of competencies and behaviours erode companies from inside.
Written by: ateo1992 , 11 Jan 2010 1:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Atabey, yes its true we are not in colonial times, so thats why work ethics must be starting to show up more often down here!. And the people are the ones responsible for doing that part, speccialy immigrants who have more reasons to respect and be greatful for this country!.
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
Belly,
Ensename! Yo tengo la capasidad. Por eso estamo aqui, para ver que loque esta pasando en el pais de uno.
Cibao,
You may have a different experience than others, but its impossible to understand the experience of all who visits the Dominican Republic. The Aussi Letmic, who is to say that this man didn't have a good encounter with Haitian construction workers. Like many people not just haitians, if treated unfair they would show aggression and lazzy people show their true colors and would rather sit under a mango tree while watching others work. So, you can't get teed off at individuals who categorize as they see it.
I still don't like Leo F. because he wears a skirt.
From: United States
cibaeno ,
One comment is no necessarlly a response to the immediate preceeding comment..
Sorry, it was not directed to you .
Regarding the behavior of Haitians on job site,I would advise that when you hire peoplle with historicaly anachic tendancies you better give them a decent pay so they can keep their temperament under control
Or we will soon discover their true ugly sides under their disguise.
Te conozco bacalao , aunque vengas disfrazao.
From: United States, New York City
"Sorry, it was not directed to you ."
I know it wasn't but I couldn't resist..LOL
Written by: Belly, 11 Jan 2010 2:27 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
RobertoJose
"Ensename! Yo tengo la capasidad. Por eso estamo aqui, para ver que loque esta pasando en el pais de uno."
If you want to see it for yourself then go ahead and compare the two countries in Human Development index, Life expectancy, GDP PPP and many more fields and you will understand what my comment is referring to. I'm not going to post numbers here since all is going to do is start a flame war that is not my style nor it will help people here since most of the posters here know who is doing better from the top of their heads.I'm surprise you are asking me to prove you this kind of comparison when the topic of this article is about illegal immigrants from Haiti coming into DR. I thought you would have figure that if they are moving there is because it has to be better than what they had. Don't you think?
Written by: telemeco, 11 Jan 2010 2:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
That all saying,
Dont buy the hand that feed you,,,i guess that is not taught in haiti
From: United States
Letmic, I am with you on your assessment.
Dominican will never take over jobs the Haitians have, or they already would have. Simple as that.
From: United States
RobertoJose, aka Bobby Joe. You speak the truth; Dominicans can not handle the truth.
From: United States, New York City
gmiller, the consumate Dominican bashing, MountainDew drinking, sisterloving, moonshine making hillbilly who would have this site become his own personal version of Stormfront if he had his way. His nipples just got hard because apparently he feels that he has found kindred spirits. Here's the truth about your people Miller:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/....1/entertainment/et-diane-sawyer11Since the beginning of the Republic they have lived in Appalachia, original citizens of the what was to become the richest country the world has ever seen. Yet they live no better and at times worse than most third world people. You are in no position to look down on anyone Miller.
From: United States
"Crabmaster,
This is about management of Human Resources, conduct, cross-cultural sensitivity, lack of ethics and values, lack of composture...This kind of competencies and behaviours erode companies from inside."
perlurdom
Let's reflect here for a second, all the Haitians I mean every single Haitian is sooooo bad they are eroding these companies. These types of generalizations are laughable. You think adding Dominicans will make it better? There are reasons why Dominicans do not work these jobs, simply they are crappy. I doubt giving social security benefits is going to change that. I mean after all these years they realized a Haitian problem.
I think they realize maybe down the road a bigger problem and they are passing the buck on their Haitian workers.
From: United States, New York City
"The Aussi Letmic, who is to say that this man didn't have a good encounter with Haitian construction workers. "
RJ, you're still trying to defend an individual that insulted your people without reservation. You baffle me with this conduct. Perhaps you didn't read his initial comments carefully and unfortuntely you won't be able to because it has since been removed but I can assure you that he categorized the Dominican people as both thieves and lazy. You seem to have love of country so I'm going to have to assume that your reading comprehension failed you or that you simply didn't read the AuSSie'S comments in their entirety.
From: United States
cibaeño75,
I wish I knew why you think that Appalachia is any thing new.
I am well aware of their situation and have been vocal about help and empowerment.
Now in terms of ‘looking down’ you Dominicans are so easy. You are transparent about your corruption and wear it as a badge of honor.
Your leaders are the ones I “look down on”, they are the ones who are supposed to be educated, moral, objective people.
They are not, everything but.
From: United States
Oh, and the US has an immense immigration worker issue. Many are taken advantage of, many not.
Would ANY American pick grapes for a living, NEVER happen.
But if I hear an American complaining about not having a job, I say “You can get a job, it is just not the job you think you deserve.”
And typically the conversation ends there.
With Dominicans, you people are swearing that Dominican will do what the Haitians do and you know that is a complete lie. NEVER happen.
Take responsibility for your country and make some changes.
From: United States, New York City
"I wish I knew why you think that Appalachia is any thing new."
You're assuming. Anyone who grew up in the states and has travelled this country extensively is more than aware of what's going on in Appalachia. I've drank moonshine and have enjoyed bluegrass with the best of them.
No one is wearing corruption as a badge of honor and the individual from Australia who you have come on here to agree with was NOT directing his derrogatory comments toward the Dominican political class but to the Dominican people in GENERAL. I'll be the first to say that the elite in DR has, for the most, no moral compass whatsoever. But I will not tolerate someone categorizing the people I stem from enmasse in derogatory terms, not here and I can assure you not in person either.
From: United States, New York City
"Would ANY American pick grapes for a living, NEVER happen."
If the price is right I'll not only find white Americans to pick grapes but a nose or two as well. I suggest you get out and travel IN the US. There are parts of the country that are struggling mightily where damn near any job will be welcome.
From: United States
dominican construction worker they will work at the right price. according to dominican standar work of lable but one of the big problen in that industry,you have foreman / ingenier braking evrebody back ,so were didyou go to the cheapleble is and dominican knows that too.................ONE MORE NOTE SOME OF THIS CONSTRUCTION ARE LEGEAT BUT ODDERS I HAVE TO DO MY LONDRY IFYOU KOWN WHHAT I MEAN ...... FALOW THE MONEY FLOW.
From: United States
cibaeño75,
The operative word is "If the price is right ", which it is NOT, so NO one will. Period.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 5:13 PM
From: Canada
"González affirmed that the builders seek to attract Dominican workers with incentives, in addition to social security, such as their inclusion in labor risk insurance, improved site sanitary condition, among others."
Are the Haitians enjoying the same incentives right now? One can be sure not. And why are they become hostile to their foremen and supervisors? Aren't those latters prone to mistreat them or to call their names? Why don't having meetings with their ring leaders, and take notice of their grievances if they have some. We must remember that they're not unionized.
No, as usual, they are low life scums who must endure and accept everything. And as for the stealing thing, it is hard to believe because the Haitian peasant will hardly take the chance to rob another one, because he knows by doing that, it is either him or his victim who will lose his head.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 5:14 PM
From: Canada
Folks, you can twist the story the way you want, smart and intelligent people will always be able to sniff and unearth the truth.
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 6:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
i would love to know how many of the people commenting here are actually living and working here alongside both Haitians and Dominicans? it would be nice if everyone put their location next to their name.
yes, i both live here and work here in Cabarete. My name is Frank-I'm easy to find. i work for a little less than $1 dollar an hour. i can say unequivically that every single Haitian i've worked with or around is not only the furthest thing from Lazy but, unbelievably hard working. they make many Americans & Dominicans--of which i'm one--look like the spoiled and lazy people we're becoming. drive down the coast from Puerto Plata to Samana and tell me what do you see at 6pm every evening? Yep, you guessed it-Haitain workers walking miles back home, turning off and then walking deep into the hills where they live. they work for less than $5 a day--hard, back breaking work! Then, look at the highway at 6am, what do you think you see?
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 6:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Yep, the same Haitians walking miles back to work. they don't even have the 25 pesos for the gua-gua. Many of you here are right, dominicans are extrememly hard workers--of which my dad was one--but how many dominicans do you think are going to do the back-breaking, hard labor the Haitians are doing for $5 dollars a day? Come on people, visit a construction site here and look how hard people are working for 12 hours a day. YEs, many dominicans are willing to do the work; the problem is trying to keep them at that wage!! How many of you would stay working at that wage when other better alternatives present themselves?
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 6:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Again, people here floor me! SOme of you are so out of touch with reality of Haitians plight here and the kind of work their doing--Cutting sugar cane 12 hours a day for $5; digging and hauling cement up in buckets all day for 12 hours for $5 to $7 a day; working on farms in the country side milking cows twice a day and doing back breaking labor for the rest of the day for 12 hours, and then getting back up at 4am to start milking the cows again. yep, i know this all to well because, the Haitians are working for my families farms in Bonao--cutting Cocao, milking cows--all for what? Yep, you guessed it...$4 dollars a day, and they sleep on the Alimento sacks and whatever foam and brown bags they can gather together, next to the cow pastors. Isn't life grand??
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Frank,
How much do you think those Haitians would be paid if they decided to stay in Haiti to do the same 12 hour back-breaking work?
Written by: Trujillo, 11 Jan 2010 7:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic
The main reason that the construction sector in the DR hires mostly illigal haitians is for the cheap labor. I hope things start to change for the better.
From: Denmark
Frank,
Thanks for enlighting us - I suppose almost everybody in DT knows these facts even though they do not want to admit it.
However Frank, looking at your heading and your statement that your family run farms are exploiting the Haitiens or Dominicans with a salary of $4 a day is a disgrace. If the profit of your farming is at such a low outcome that you have to have people working for 4 a day you should consider closing down and start some other business. On the other hand if your farms are profitable and you still pay 4 a day its a crime.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
An illegal Mexican makes only $20 a day for the same back-breaking, hard work in the US.
The same guy would make only $5 to $7 a day in Mexico.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 7:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
ScandiViking said: "However Frank, looking at your heading and your statement that your family run farms are exploiting the Haitiens or Dominicans with a salary of $4 a day is a disgrace. If the profit of your farming is at such a low outcome that you have to have people working for 4 a day you should consider closing down and start some other business. On the other hand if your farms are profitable and you still pay 4 a day its a crime."
My thoughts exactly, Viking. He should be embarrassed for being promoting haitian/dominican slavery so openly and shamelessly. If he had any decency in him, he would at least demand from his family to provide decent lodgings for their workers. Slavers are truly the scum of the earth.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 7:49 PM
From: Canada
"My thoughts exactly, Viking. He should be embarrassed for being promoting haitian/dominican slavery so openly and shamelessly. If he had any decency in him, he would at least demand from his family to provide decent lodgings for their workers. Slavers are truly the scum of the earth."
I totally desagree with you my friend Lautaro with that comment of yours, and forgive my bluntness, but I think your animosity toward our friend Frank derived from the fact that he states things bluntly as they are. The way my people are being exploited in your land is paid slavery at its best. However, I am not going to fire red bullets on your people because they pay them a miserable and famine salary. Why? Because we're embedded in a Capitalist system whose base rest on profit and more profit, period.
I am very grateful to Frank's family for hiring my countrypeople, because back home, they wouldn't have received half of these four$/day for the same time/shift.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 7:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
oupala07 said: "I am very grateful to Frank's family for hiring my countrypeople, because back home, they wouldn't have received half of these for dollars a day for the same time/shift."
Well, you should not be, cuz' as long as there are slavers like him and his family on this side of the fence, haitians will never have the motivation to change their sorry status in their own land, as in, having no other choice than to kick the butts of the affranchi elites holding them back, or die trying. As long as they can access the migration escape valve, haitians will not fight back to uplift themselves and their country along with them, the same holding true for all our countries.
Written by: BASTA, 11 Jan 2010 8:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs
Letmic, true any domican who can work is in NYC selling drugs to the PRs
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 8:02 PM
From: Canada
When those French frog eaters were building the road that links Jacmel to Port-au-Prince via the National Two, in 1974/75 I was a proud 50 cents an hour drain pipe layer and the highest salary for a Haitian worker apart the engineers and the subcontractors, was half a dollar a day, and it was considered a huge salary at that time.
Would have been that pissed against them for not giving us more with all the benefits? Objectivity seems to be very hard to catch these days my friend. But, I understand you. You are a true Dominican patriot who will defend his country and people even if he must ignore their little sins. However, when you meet one who is fitted with the sense of justice like myself, you mustn't try to get on his case the way you are doing now.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 8:06 PM
From: Canada
"Well, you should not be, cuz' as long as there are slavers like him and his family on this side of the fence, haitians will never have the motivation to change their sorry status in their own land"
Well, my friend Laut, if his family is a slaver one as you said, then the whole Dominican nation is composed of slaverers. C'mon Laut! Even in my greatest moment of anger toward your people, I wouldn't be so harsh. You must acknowledge when someone is impartially right, because impartiality is a very rare quality these days.
From: Denmark
oupala07,
back to usd4 a day compared to 2 a day in Haiti. Would you by any chance accept usd8 a day in Canada for any given work??
I do not know the cost of living in Haiti back in 74-75 but Im quite sure you were exploited like hell.
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 8:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Funny responses here; First, i obviously don't own any farms or land or employ anyone here. if i did, do you think i would be working in Caberet for less than a $1 dollar an hour?
2.) So, going on some of the logic here, should every company in th U.S be closed down for hiring Mexicans,hondurans, el salvadorans, etc?
3.) Just because a Haitian would be payed less in Haiti, or a Mexican would be payed less in Mexico, does that make exploitation right? I certainly don't see, nor have i ever seen, any Haitian protests in the streets, demanding better pay. the simple fact is that Haitians, like Mexicans, like my dominican father, fled their home countries to work abroad, and were happy to do so. thankfully, my dad didn't have people throwing shit at him and blaming him for all their troubles. and yet, here, many of you guys are blaming the Haitians for all of Domincan troubles. That's how i know most of you do not live here! Come down here and work for less than $1 an hour, then comment
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
If we are paying $5/day to illegal immigrants, our average wage for illegal immigrants is quite high in relation to minimum wage for legal workers: $5/day vs. $9.35/day; our fellow capitalist exploiters in the US are paying less to illegal immigrants: $20/day vs. federal minimum wage of $7.5/hr or $60/day...Let's keep this numbers in low profile to prevent an exodus of illegal immigrants from the US to DR...LOL
From: Denmark
Frank,
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Are you selling bacalao??
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 8:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Lautaro,
So now i'm promoting Dominican/Haitain slavery? Come again? how did you come to this enlightened, intelligent conclusion, given the fact that i work for around 80 cents an hour?
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 8:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
oupala07 said: "Well, my friend Laut, if his family is a slaver one as you said, then the whole Dominican nation is composed of slaverers. C'mon Laut! Even in my greatest moment of anger toward your people, I wouldn't be so harsh. You must acknowledge when someone is impartially right, because impartiality is a very rare quality these days."
I stand for what I have said. As long as our countries have open the emigration option, none of our countrymen will have the motivation to fight back the political and mafiosi elements holding them back. Only when a country finds itself cornered with no other options available is when its true character is shown. By emigrating, they only become somebody else's problem.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 8:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
frank asked: "So now i'm promoting Dominican/Haitain slavery? Come again? how did you come to this enlightened, intelligent conclusion, given the fact that i work for around 80 cents an hour?"
frank answered: "yep, i know this all to well because, the Haitians are working for my families farms in Bonao--cutting Cocao, milking cows--all for what? Yep, you guessed it...$4 dollars a day, and they sleep on the Alimento sacks and whatever foam and brown bags they can gather together, next to the cow pastors. Isn't life grand??"
If this is not a proud statement about how your family is exploiting those people, then I don't know what the f*ck it is. A confesión de partes, relevo de pruebas.
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 9:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Lautaro,
Again, I ask you, Lautaro, how do you come to the conclusion that "i'm making proud statements about my family?"
Where in my statement did you sense "Bragging?"
Where in my statement did you sense i am Proud?
I simply made a statement of fact.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 9:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
frank asked: "Again, I ask you, Lautaro, how do you come to the conclusion that "i'm making proud statements about my family?"
In the cynical tone in which you made the statement "Isn't life grand??", when the chief emotion that I would feel if I were in a similar position would be infinite embarrassment and shame. But of course, I'm not a soulless dog-eat-dog capitalist nor an apologist of this system
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 9:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Lautaro,
What are you doing to help the plight of domincans or haitians down here?
Using you're keen obersvation for detail, your amazing gift for logic, and your amazing ability to come to conslusions that i'm "promoting" and "proud" of my families wages, tell me, what exactly do you think i do for a living that would warrant me earning only 80 cents an hour down here?
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 9:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
frank said: "and what you do down here when you come to visit?"
Before you come and throw the absentee accusation on my person, please, look the place from which I'm posting from and my IP address in the forum. If something, I'm better equipped more than you will ever be for talking about the realities of this country, as I have to take the streets of this capital and travel to the towns of this country almost every day and week of a single year to earn my bread.
From: United States, Bay Area, CA - (Dei sitio)
Frank,
If you are a legal worker in the DR you are underpaid, minimum wage is $1.16/hr.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 9:23 PM
From: Canada
"In the cynical tone in which you made the statement "Isn't life grand??","
My friend Lautaro,
Excuse me, but I think you have lost it due to the fact that Frank hasn't embarked in the Haitian bashing bandwagon. The man wasn't bragging. he was just being exhaling what we may call "cynically desillusionned expression, and that's the reason why he let go in a sad sigh : "Isn't life grand?"
I told you again people, there are smart Haitian folks watching you on this blog. You can try to fool others and yourselves, but they will always be able to read you. Therefore, my friend I suggest you leave my friend Frank in peace, because he the only Dominican that reminds me my long time deceased friend. And if someone get on his case for nothing, I'll get on his too. See? I am not a Dominican hater like some of you always pretend.ed.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 9:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
oupala07: "I told you again people, there are smart Haitian folks watching you on this blog. You can try to fool others and yourselves, but they will always be able to read you. Therefore, my friend I suggest you leave my friend Frank in peace, because he the only Dominican that reminds me my long time deceased friend. And if someone get on his case for nothing, I'll get on his too. See? I am not a Dominican hater like some of you always pretend.ed."
Yes, I understand your game now. It's called H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y (or as Belly would affectionately term it, E-LOVE from afar), cuz' you forgive the existence of slavery in Haiti while ranting to the four winds against it in dominican soil. You're either wholly against it or in favor of it, friend, cuz' as you and others like to say "you can't have it both ways". Carry on and get cozy with him if you must.
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 9:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Ok, Lautaro, then you won't mind enlightening me and sharing with our fellow readers here about what you do for a living down here? I've told you my wages down here, why don't you share with us your wages? i'm a firm believer that, if in fact, you are "better equipped" to understand the "streets of the capitol," and understand the people, you have to first emerge yourself, work alongside, and live with the people. So again, is it too much to ask what you do for a living down here.
and by the way, i stand corrected about not noticing the fact that you live in Santo Domingo. i apologize for that over-sight.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 9:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
frank asked: "I've told you my wages down here, why don't you share with us your wages?"
Part of my job involves being a pollster for a private institution that makes socioeconomic studies all around the country, but my total earnings are around US$800 monthly, which would be enough if I weren't the main provider of my home, being the older brother of the house and having to take care of my mom, grandma and little brother. Were it not for the crimewave afflicting the zone, I'd gladly live in Santiago, San Francisco de Macoris or my family's ancestral home in Valverde, cuz' I love the Cibao more than any other region of this country.
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 10:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
You know, there's a funny charecteristic about people--i've noticed it about you, Lautaro. i hope you prove me wrong about this: When someone is insecure about something--insecure about themselves, for example, or insecure about their arguments, they throw out harsh accusations & pick extreme arguments in order to try and convey their point. for example, first you said, "Frank is promoting slavery." Interesting observation on you part, considering i was doing just the opposite. Secondly, you accused oupala7 of something he neither said, nor conveyed in any of his arguments; you said this: he "forgives slavery in Haiti." Then, you accuse him of, "HYPOCRiSY." And you did this without any revelation of fact from neither him, nor any of his arguments. then you said this: "I'm better equipped to talk about the realities of this country than you will ever be!" that's a pretty big assumption, don't you think, considering i'm Dominican.
Written by: Lautaro, 11 Jan 2010 10:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Would you please, please, read ALL the posts that both of us have made on this site before projecting your flaws on others, frank? cuz' if you cared to notice, we aren't exactly newbies around here (as would be your case, for example). I know, it is waay too much material, but it would give you a more firm basis from whence to form an opinion. Thanks in advance.
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
the sad thing is that both the workers from the DR and those from Haiti have little idea of their trade and in another article there was discussion on the need for trade schools in the DR. I do not think I could face another round of renovations again in this country .the workmanship here is done with little pride or skill and if you can find a good tradesman or builder,be he Dominican or Haitian ,then do not let him out of your site .
Written by: frank, 11 Jan 2010 10:28 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Perludom,
i work with around 25 people, we all make the same wage. the wage is $6400 pesos a month. if you divide $6400 by 160 hours a month, i believe you get 40 pesos an hour. or slightly more than $1 an hour. but, during the summer months, we make slightly less, and this is when we get around 80 cents on the dollar.
Written by: oupala07 , 11 Jan 2010 11:47 PM
From: Canada
My friend Frank,
You will never reach the end of the tunnerl with our friend Lautaro, for if you are not a Haitian basher, you won't earn his favours.
I suggest to you to agree to desagree with him and to switch to a less emotion driven interlocutor. I remember having with him last year a lenghty debate about something I don't really remember, and I had to just give up.
Believe me Frank, you are an asset for your country and your people, and I think if you were in Leonie shoes, the Dominican Republic would have been a better place to live.
Keep your chin high and your shoulders squared and level my friend.:-)
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 12:14 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala07
I think if you were in Leonie shoes, the Dominican Republic would have been a better place to live.
If Frank was in Leonel's shoes today I would be the first one to donate money to start a coup d'tat my friend. That you like him to be our President is enough reason after all the hate you have shown on your comments for me not to want him to be in Leonel's shoes so please save you vote for choosing a president for Haiti if ONE day you decide to take a trip back to your homeland in the mean time ALLOW us Dominicans to keep choosing our leaders. If there was a election for president between Frank and Lautaro my vote is no doubt goes to Mr. Lautaro no questions asked.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Gmiller,
One of my employees is an ex-navy fighter pilot. Believe it or not, he owns a small winery in the New York Finger Lakes and he and his wife run the entire operation: from picking the grapes to making the wine and bottling it and selling it. They make 8k-10k bottles a year.
He is an incredible person; even though he is very wealthy, you'll never know it. He built his own airplane; he is a capable machinist, runs marathons, works two full-time jobs; etc. BTW, he is 62 years old and has a 10 years old daughter.
I feel privileged to know this individual.
MJEV.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Frank,
After reading your well-constructed, defended commentaries, I come to the inevitable conclusion that you are a well-educated individual with much higher than average reasoning and intelligence and great command of English language. Latter attribute suggests that you were educated outside DR, for it could have been difficult, but maybe not impossible, to have acquired that level of proficiency in DR.
With these incredible attributes, I am having much difficulty rationalizing your position in life and your income. It simply doesn't add up. There are many here with less than half your intelligence and overall knowledge who are earning considerably more than you.
Are you being honest with us or are you just messing with our minds in a rather perverse manner? Or are you just pursuing your passion and somehow doing altruistic and charitable work, while eschewing income?
MJEV.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
Lautaro,
Your commitment to and sacrifice for family is admirable, indeed. Thought people with those traits disappeared more than a generation ago. I am sure you shall be rewarded for your unselfish actions.
MJEV.
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 8:30 AM
From: Canada
(nunber one) "If there was a election for president between Frank and Lautaro my vote is no doubt goes to Mr. Lautaro no questions asked."
I might have voted for Lautaro too, but not for the same reason you would have send him to the highest office. I'd vote for him because, even though he is not too fond of Haitians (his body language speaks for him), but he is moderate enough, and has never shown the kind of vitriolic rhetoric some of you are spiting here every day.
But I think in reality my choice would have been Frank, because he is the best and the brightest among you all. And once again, the reason why you might not like him is because he never lower himself in demonizing and lambasting the Haitians the way the hatemongers among you love to do it.
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 8:30 AM
From: Canada
(continued) I wish I was fitted with his self control ability. Unfortunately, I have inherited from my ancestors hot lava instead of blood. It is useless to try to demonize him, because any individual regular of this web site will be able to understand that anyone who is not a Dominican praiser or a Haitians basher is not welcome in your club. And as I said, you can run but can't hide, because you character will always sipped out and leave a track from which it is very easy to find you.
Keep talking, but put in your mind that we haitians, when educated, are among the brghtest. Therefore, making the mistake to think when you are throwing ballony it is only illiterate peasants that are listening or reading you, will always keep you in your delusional mental state.
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 10:28 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala07
Do you really believe people take you seriously around here?
First you call Dominican dummies and that you want them all shot dead and now That Frank made a comment on your favor all of a sudden you want him to be the president of DR. You call us hate-monger but guess what when it comes to the topic of racial hate history is not on your side.What Frank may not know is that he is talking to a person that want to take his land and kill ALL Dominican because according to OUPALA07 we should have never existed.
By the way I don't run my friend I can easily be found in Houston or San Francisco de Macoris unlike you I'm NOT afraid of going back to my country as much as possible. Like I said take a trip back to Haiti since you haven't ever since you had the chance to get out. You are such a brave-heart soldier why are you afraid of getting on a plane back to Haiti and help your country because it needs you but for you is easier to leave and don't look back. Typical coward!.
From: Denmark
Frank,
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Would you be kind enough to enligthen us why you put in freezing Norway above, since you say you are a Dominican.
You didnt tell us what kind of work you do for 80cents an hour. There are quite a few rich people doing charity work or low paid work just to put themselves in less affortunate shoes. For all we know you might receive USD1000 a week from your stake in the farms. You sure dont sounds like a guy who cant get paid more than 80cents an hour.
From: Dominican Republic
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
You what?
I am so glad Haitians finally came to their senses and started acting up in a more PROPER manner.
Next... torch the Ingeniero's Jepetas.
From: United States
platanos=pealaos
this is this ignorant and backward attitude that have brought so much misery to haiti
" koupe tet.boule kay"
"chop heads off and burn down houses"
remember your anarchic reflexes will be curbed with deadly force in the dominican republic,
this is not the jpp or jtt haiti.
jpp, jtt =no consequences for destructive actions
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 11:49 AM
From: Canada
"First you call Dominican dummies "
There are two types of Dominicans in my book: the "Dummies" and the "Domis". And I think every single hatemonger among you knows which one between these two terms refers to who.
And you my friend, with a few others, are the ring leaders of the Dummies. You are so full of it that you don't even spare your own nationals when they state clearly that you are wrong, because what you really expect from everybody here is to embark onboard of your hateful rhetoric bandwagon.
keep dirtying your pants because one way or the other, you'll have to stop shitting in them or wipe your butt with your hand due to lack of toilet paper.
Frank and a very few others among you shouldn't be Dominicans: they are too smart and justice prone in order to have you as countrymen.
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 12:10 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala07
Like I said before you need to take a trip back to your motherland and help the country you e-love so much Haiti by providing solutions to it. Once you decide to get your lazy ass out the -20C whether of Canada and visit the the country you claim e-love and actually prove it by action instead of trash talking because as it stands now you sound like the kid on the block who needs to call attention and can't find anybody to talk to in Canada. LOL so if Frank doesn't deserve to be Dominican since he is too much for such a country like ours why don't you allow the man you call a dummy and want shot dead "Frank and all Dominican" to be the one to choose since you don't know him at all and probably never will. Get your lazy ass out of Canada and do something for your country other than making it look worse to the general public with your hate against the country that feed many of the ones you turned you back, heck maybe some of your own family too.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 2:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Funny, the comment below and the one that followed it, were both tagged as innapropriate. Anyone care to explain why?
"yes, i both live here and work here in Cabarete. i work for a little less than $1 dollar an hour. i can say unequivically that every single Haitian i've worked with or around is not only the furthest thing from Lazy but, unbelievably hard working. they make many Americans & Dominicans--of which i'm one--look like the spoiled and lazy people we're becoming. drive down the coast from Puerto Plata to Samana and tell me what do you see at 6pm every evening? Yep, you guessed it-Haitain workers walking miles back home, turning off and then walking deep into the hills where they live. they work for less than $5 a day--hard, back breaking work! Then, look at the highway at 6am, what do you think you see?"
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 2:19 PM
From: Canada
"so if Frank doesn't deserve to be Dominican since he is too much for such a country like ours why don't you allow the man you call a dummy and want shot dead "Frank and all Dominican" to be the one to choose since you don't know him at all and probably never will"
Like every good propagandist hatemonger, you think you are very good at distorting people speech in order to return their words against them.
Frank is among the friendly Dominicans I affectionately call "Domis" or "Domies," but you and the others preachers of violence against Haitians are "Dummies."
Only retarded like you must physically see a person in order to juge him. I don't know Frank, but it will be a pleasure to drink a few bottles of Prestige with him in Haiti, or Molson dry in a cozy italian bar in Montreal. I am sorry for the Presidente even though it tastes good, for I have decided to boycott the Dominican products.
Belly my friend, go back to your books, you are no match for this fight.
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 2:27 PM
From: Canada
"Do you really believe people take you seriously around here?"
Others may not take me seriously, however, it looks like that I am your worse nightmare, because you seem to not being able to restrain yourself from going after my comments, and to try to distort and twist everything I say.
I have already told you I am a fan of the tit fot tat and an eye for eye game.
Believe me my friend, I am an expert of getting under someone's skin, most of all, if he has no processing power LOL LOL LOL
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 2:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
it's both strange and slightly macabre that, someone's comment here can be "Flagged as inappropriate" when there is no deragatory comments, inapprapriate language, or inflammatory accusations being used or leveled at anyone in particular.
earlier, i made two comments of observationsal fact about Haitian workers here. i stand behind those comments. if someone feels they are inappropriate, why not address them and give that person the opportunity to answer for his or her opinions.
i would think it would be in everyone's interest to have every argument out in the open where, every one is given the fair opportunity to question, address, and challenge one's arguments without three people flagging someone's opinion, and hence, sending that person's opinion away where it can longer be addressed or challenged.
However, if someone is flagged simply because 3 people get offended, what we end up here with is not a discussion or debate but instead, behavior modification surrendering--
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 2:29 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala07
Can you prove where have I ever made a comment here about preaching for violence against Haitian. See now you are running out of trash to talk, So you have to make up stuff I have never said to distort the fact that all I have done is ask for lazy asses like you to actually do something for your country to clean up it's image, But you are doing the opposite by prolonging to accept the fact that I'm asking for to much from you. Somebody who has never bothered to look back at their motherland and return the favor by improving it.So if calling lazy asses like your self to do something for your country is hate-mongering according to you, Then guess what I am a hate monger then! Happy now?
Because of people like you who claim to e-love Haiti yet have never bothered to visit it or improve it by contributing to it's progress by monetary resources or physical presence and sharing what you claim to know. Once again lazy ass get up and do something for your country.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 2:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
--surrendering to political correctness of a few individuals. where is the intellectual debate in this? Where is the intellectual debate where a select few can direct, and hence, eventually manipulate the direction of the debate simply by flagging a person three times, sending him or her--and their argument--out of the discussion, and hence, out of the debate.
That's not a debate, that then becomes behavior modification gone astray.
From: United States, New York City
"i would love to know how many of the people commenting here are actually living and working here alongside both Haitians and Dominicans? "
Frank, what is it you're trying to say? Are you trying to say that those Dominicans that live abroad should keep quiet when it comes to what's transpiring in their country of origin?
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 3:17 PM
From: Canada
My friend Frank,
You better start lambasting Haitians the same way the hatemongers are doing it here, because your straighttalking impartiality prone character is very incompatible with their hypocrit one. Now, like they used to do to me, the moderators are starting to "enforce" your right of free speech by deleting your comments, but in the same time, they are giving an audience to the hatemongers.
I wouldn't want you to be crucified just because you are among the cream of your people.
No wonder why your country is still stuck in its colonial past.
From: United States, New York City
oupala, I'm asking the poster a question that only the most twisted of individuals can construe as somehow anti-haitian. As a matter of fact it has nothing to do with haiti. Why the vitriolic rhetoric?
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 3:42 PM
From: Canada
"Can you prove where have I ever made a comment here about preaching for violence against Haitian"
I guess it was me or some friendly Domies who wrote these flattering comments about Haitians and not you.
Written by: Belly, 7 Jan 2010 8:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Here is a quote from an article in Periodico Hoy.
"According to the military authorities and the Directorate of Migration in the north, at least 2,450 Haitians trying to enter the country have been arrested and repatriated to their country this week."
Dated 1/7/2010
To those that claim there is not invasion going on think again.
So the question is if it sound like a duck,Quack like a duck and walks like a duck then it is a DUCK.
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 3:45 PM
From: Canada
And here is a little bit more. Now, by taking into account the state of mind of so many of your countrymen, you tell me what will be their reaction when they encounter haitians? One can see that logic does not dictate your behaviour.
Written by: Belly, 7 Jan 2010 9:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Lautaro
A better one is "Perro que ladra no muerde"
Written by: Belly, 8 Jan 2010 12:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Ranaru
“and about the almost 500,000 Haitian kids sold as slaves for as little as US$20.00 inside Haiti today as we speak. They accused of trying to talk Haiti down when in fact there is documents and video to support it.”
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 3:51 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala
I guess it was me or some friendly Dommies who wrote these flattering comments about Haitians and not you.
You running out of gas because where does it promotes violence against Haitian. Deporting ILLEGAL immigrants back to where they came from is not promoting violence against them is actually following the LAWS that WE as a country have in place. Now that you are unable to make stuff up about me you are mad to the point your comprehension of the English language is failing at it's basics.
"To those that claim there is not invasion going on think again.
So the question is if it sound like a duck,Quack like a duck and walks like a duck then it is a DUCK."
Yes I stand by my quote because having a Haitian presence in DR is not the problem but having almost 2 million of them where most are illegal it is a huge problem but what do you know about it you are not the one paying the price of your country's irresponsibility. Like I said before the cold weather is hurting yo
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 3:55 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Oupala07
Are you getting brain damage due to the cold weather in Canada, I know is cold up there but man is really affecting you.How does putting light on a subject that your own people putting their kids into slavery some how now promotes violence against Haitian in DR.
Like I said your comprehension of the English language is once again FAILING at it's basics. Take a break before your brain gets fried or I should say freeze due to the cold weather up there. LOL LOL
From: United States
I see how oupala has managed to become the main attraction here !
his innocence !
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Cibaaeno75,
where have i insinuated that domincans living abroad should not be allowed to voice there opinion? I asked a fair question: How many people commenting here live here, and hence, work with both haitians and dominicans?
Every opinion here should be heard, and hence, every opinion should be given the opportunity to be challenged and questioned without the fear of offending 3 people who can flag any argument even if it does not contain offensive language or inappropriate accusations. my first two posts here were flagged. i think this is a little authoritarian given the fact that neither one of them used inappropriate language. never-the-less, whats done is done. my only point here is that by flagging every argument one does not agree with ends up ostracizing that person so that he or she is not allowed to voice their opinion, even when no offensive langauage has been used. furthermore, it then creates a "Herd" mentality where, the only people left behind to voice their-
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
--opinion are only those who are in complete agreement with one another. how intelligent is that?
Surrendering to political correctness of a few individuals is not a debate. where is the intellectual debate in this? Where is the intellectual debate where a select few can direct, and eventually, manipulate the debate by flagging a persone three times, sending him or her--or their argument--out of the discussion.
That's not debate, this then becomes behavior modification gone astray.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:33 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Allow me to present to you what i don't understand about any dominican seeking the deportation of all illegal Haitian workers:
1. I work alongside Haitians; they fill jobs no dominican could possibly want.
2. Haitians are not stealing "Prime high-paying" jobs.
3. visit any jail here. the Haitians in jail here, for the most part, are in jail for being here illegally. the Domincans, however are in jail for illegal activities; many of them have spent time in the USA and brought back with them a nice violent streak that gravitates towards firearms. Very pretty.
4. every dominican-myself included--has relatives working in the USA & europe legally & illegally.
5. My father was one of these "illegal" immigrants. he did jobs no americans in their right mind would do. and certainly not for the amount of money he was being paid.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
6.Just like the Haitins here, domincans are incredibly hard workers when given the opportunity to make a decent wage. that's why many of them, migrate illegally, my father included.
7. dominicans are not stupid; they're not going to work all day long in the Sugar Cane fields for little to no pay. Haitians do that kind of work. Dominicans are not going to milk cows and attend cows up in the mountains for 12 hours a day for little to no pay. Haitians do that work. likewise for Americans; they're not going to do the kind of back-breaking work in Monfort slaughter house in Nebraska and Colorado for little to no pay. Mexicans and Domincans, and unfotunately myself, do that kind of work. Americans are not going to be bell-boys, bus-boys, etc, in New York city and Miami, working for little to no money; Dominicans, including my father, do that kind of work.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
8. america was built on the back of the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, the Polish, etc, all doing back-breaking work that no one else wanted.
I work in Norway for half the year. Over the years, i hear the same racial crap and blame game that i do here: get rid of the Polish and the Pakistanians! They're lazy and they take our good jobs! that's absolute BS. the only jobs they take, just like the Haitians, are menial labor jobs that no Norwegian would ever do in a million years.
If you live and work here like i do, what you see are Haitians, like my father in the USA, taking jobs that no domincan, including poor dominicans, would ever do for the money that's being paid. again, dominicans are not stupid; no race is stupid. the only jobs the haitinas are taking are the absolute bottom of the barrel--back-breaking, menial labor, jobs that pay almost nothing and require 12 hours a day of hard, hard work.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 5:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
this is what confuses me here with some of the arguments. america is full of illegal workers doing jobs that no one else wants; Norway is filled with illegal works--mostly Afghans today--taking cleaning jobs that absolutely no norwegian in their right frame of mind would ever take; and dominican republic is full of Haitians taking the bottom of the barrel jobs--working for absolute little to no money, that absolutely no dominican in their right frame of mind wants. likewise for the rest of Western Europe, Asia, and South America. every country is full of illegal workers filling the void, and scraping the bottom of the barrel for jobs no one wants.
From: Denmark
Frank,
If you are a Dominican you need a visa to enter the Schengen countries, one of them being Norway. If you are illegally in Norway you make at least usd10/hour upwards taxfree for any given job. If you are legally in Norway at least usd15/hour upwards taxed ditto. How come you go back to DR after 6months working for 80cents/hour. It makes no sense unless you are a machocist. Theres more to it than you have given.
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 7:09 PM
From: Canada
Scandiviking,
Why are you harassing the man, and what the f*ck do you want to know about his privalte life. If you really are the descendant of one of the ruthless murderer thug the world have ever known why dont you enjoy the 3 or 5000 dollars a month the Norwegian gorvernment is sending to you so generously? Can't you see that we have enough problem to solve on this island?
Why don't you tell your government that instead of welfaring a bunch of lazy dudes, it doesn't instead loan some of its billions of oil and gas revenues to the DR and to Haiti because we are in deep shit economically.
It is always easy for cowards to play pickyupers. There are some people here who deserve to be respected and Domies or Haitians if someone pick on them, you pick on me. Why don't you go back on sakapfet.com if you have nothing positive to say here?
Written by: oupala07 , 12 Jan 2010 7:22 PM
From: Canada
"I see how oupala has managed to become the main attraction here !
his innocence !"
It is normal for me to be an attraction, because everybody can see that I am not afraid of the Dummies of your kind.
As for innocence LOL LOL LOL
I am pretty sure that someone, fitted with a little bit more processing power than your little Dummy brain, will be able to rapidly sort between you and I who's the real innocent. LOL LOL LOL
I have already told you to stop shitting inside your pants because you're running of toilet paper and you're running the risk to have to wipe it with your hand. LOL LOL LOL
By the way you keep trumpetting why I have never gone back to Haiti. Well, who told you that I am not talking to you from Haiti right now. See? the real brainless innocent is you my friend. Go recycle yourself, because you're out of service and no more useful.
From: Denmark
oupala07,
calm down man, its not good for your hearth. As far as I can see Frank is more than capable of speaking for himself without you babysitting. By the way it's not to smart to call anyone lazy dudes and next ask for money.
If it was all up to me, yea both Haiti and Dominican should receive billions of usd, some of it free and some at very low interest rate, however on conditions it would benefit the poor first of all. How would that be possible?? When it comes to haiti it is a great shame the world want do more.
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 9:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Every dominican i know has relatives or friends working in the U.S or western Europe, filling jobs that no one else wants. And this is a good thing because, looking at the amount of cash that hard working dominicans are sending back home every month, this is what keeps their families afloat and surviving, & the economy going! and most of them are surviving, just like my father's family did, on the back's of hundred of thousands of illegal workers..just like my dad was, and just like many dominican currently are.
Scandiviking,
Hei Pa deg Venn, Jeg ogsa vet ikke hvorfor jeg jobber har for 80 pesos!? Av og til, jeg tenke jeg ar liten gal, skrullet!!! Men, jeg elsker min venner har, terreng, min fetter, onkel, tante, etc. jeg har fodt i USA men, far min er Dominikansk; han kommer fra Bonao. jeg bor i norge hver sommer og host, og jobber pa restaurants og vaske ogsa, av og til. jeg fortjene ikke sa mye, kansje kr.120 per timer. Jeg beklager sa mye fordi, jeg snakke veldig darlig norsk
From: Denmark
Halloen Frank,
Du snakker jo meget bra Norsk. Håper du blir tatt godt imot i Norge når du er der. Dersom du er i Bergen så kan vi treffes. Jeg er sammen med en dame fra SD, men har ikke vært der på en stund. Dersom vi skulle være i DR på samme tid kunne vi jo også treffes. Min forlovede i SD ønsker å reise til Norge og du kunne kanskje fortelle henne hvordan du opplever å bo der.
Klokken er 3 om morgenen her nå så jeg skal sove.
Forresten, det er helt jævlig at Haiti igjen har blitt påført enda en katastrofal ødeleggelse.
Håper vi snakkes - ha det bra!
Written by: frank, 12 Jan 2010 10:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Scandiviking,
jeg bor i Oslo, pa Gronnlokker, men jeg jobber pa Alexanders Kjellig Plass. Jeg jobber for en Norsk man; han heter Ketel. Han kommer fra Molde. han er veldig snill. jeg prove a jobber hver dag nar jeg er i Oslo. Det er sant! jeg like jobber sa mye fordi penger er sa ganske bra!!
Jeg jobber pa en restaurant/bar pa Alexanders Kjellig Plass, heter Park Lounge men, adresse og nummer ligge ikke pa gulesider. Jeg vet ikke hvorfor men, Park Lounge ligge neste til en restaurant heter Cafe Isabella.
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 11:02 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Frank
So according to you because Dominican go to others countries then we have no base to keep our border in order. Your argument to defend illegal immigration is pointless and I understand that you and your family benefits from it but from you to expect that every Dominican should believe illegal immigration should be allow in our country.Second point most of your argument goes around that Dominicans will do the job that Haitians do if the Salary allow for them to live a standard of living that will support their family but then you fail to see that bringing in illegals that have no way to protest higher salary because they are illegally inside the country with lower living of standard to compete with Dominican workers who expect to live better because the country allows it. Don't you see the flaw in your whole argument about who is the one suffering in DR just because Haiti has fail to provide the basic for it's people.Don't you see how it affects our workers?
Written by: Belly, 12 Jan 2010 11:13 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Frank
You are basing your whole argument based of nothing because Dominican Laws have nothing to do with any other country each country follow it's own path to progress and Haiti just like every other independent nation must find it's path to support it's citizens. Just because they are hard worker is a legal base to allow illegal immigration into DR. The rule of the law does not make exceptions because when something happens to Haitian because people who employee them and exploit them and take advantage of their status then the image of the country suffers because people classify all Dominicans as being abusers. In your case you are taking advantage of their illegal status and you should feel shameful of committing illegal action and wearing them as badge of honor in the public.Your illegal actions hurt others who are actually conducting business according to the law because it brings the credibility down in the worldwide stage.
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 8:31 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Belly,
First, i don't recall implying that the DR "Has no base to keep it's borders in order." However, what i did suggest, and i am again suggesting it here, is this: every country, including the USA, Western Europe, South America, Africa, and Asia, all have illegal immigrants that migrate to countries to fill jobs that no one else wants. this is the law of supply and demand, and it works no better than in any given free market place of which the DR is but just one example. Ilegal immigration goes on in countries that are at currently at war, war torn, at peace, or whom are either rich or poor. there is no way to stop it because illegals are simply filling the void (the market place) in positions that no one else wants.
This doesn't mean that you open your borders to everyone, it simply means that you try to better manage the borders and try and document workers. not the U.S nor Isreal, with all their fantastic border control are able to stop illegal workers. it cannot be done.
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 8:37 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Belly,
Do not buy into the argument that if you increase wages of low paying jobs that lay on the bottom of the barrel--i.e sugar cane work, milking cows, cutting cacao, picking coffee, etc. that this will in turn, reverse illegal immigration. it won't. it never has. one reason you cannot do this is simply because the market place will not support the higher wages that would be required. people around the world are not willing to pay $3 for a cup of coffee just so you can increase your workers wages; people are not willing to pay $3 for chocolate so your cacoa workers can be domincans; people are not willing pay $8 for a pound of sugar. first, it will never happen because every western european country, including the US subsidizes it agriculture and farmers. secondly, the market place will not support higher prices for goods that are not neccessary like chocolate, coffeee, sugar, etc. The world market dictates prices for goods; a farmer has absolutely no say so what-so-ever.
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 8:52 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
economics, supply and demand, farm subsidies, free market--is what wins out at the end of the day. this is what dictates earnings of low paying, low skilled jobs. i know the world would be a better place if everyone was altruistic, however, that's not how it works in the market place. if your growing corn, beans, rice, vegetables, coffee, cacoa, beets, sugar, etc. you have to follow the market prices. this means that, as a owner, or stock holder, you have to find low paying workers for low skilled work. there's just no other way around this cunundrum. you are at the mercy of the market. Starbucks are involved in an interesting experiment right now with the "Fair Trade" coffee beans they buy from farmers in south america. these farmers are supposed to be guranteed "higher wages." however, this has procen difficult, if not impossible because, what can you do if in a given year, the price for coffee falls because of an influx of coffee beans from other countries-i.e a bumper crop year!?
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 8:56 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Belly,
we could go on for days talking about realistic economic principles and the laws of supply and demand in the market place. however, it doesn't change the fact that the world market will not support higher prices for goods just because you want to hire dominican workers and pay them more. some years there is a "glut" on the market of sugar, rice coffee, chocolate, etc and the bottom falls out from underneath it. some years there are bumper crops, etc. you cannot control this. every one tries to controll it, they've been trying for centuries, however, it is impossible to control market prices, even more so when you have government subsidies under-selling nearly every agriculture product on the planet. a few years ago, i saw a documentary about U.S companies selling and exporting chicken to the dominican republic for less than a dominican can sell a chicken here. it turned out that the US company sold the chicken at a loss because of subisidies. that's insane!
From: United States
oupala,let's put our differences aside for now.
I am sending $100,00 to Haiti.
The Haitian palace ,the incubator of greed, dilapidation of Haiti;s coffers,political assassination and torture,black magic is gone.
God is speaking now.
God said let start Haiti,s capital from the ground up.
Ho Ho Ho Haitian people ,crisis mean danger and opportunity.
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 10:06 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Frank
So you are basically saying that higher wages won't bring Dominicans to work in those positions that many have worked for centuries.Your argument is based around something that simply is not realistic and the same rhetoric that Dominican "worker won't do that job" well I was born and raised in the cibao and I know for a fact Dominicans still milk cows, cut coffee and all others but salaries have been brought to a point where any legal worker just won't survive on it. The reason salaries are that low is because the never ending supply of workers feeding it with no rights for claim which makes it perfect for business and bad for the general public.I'm not saying to deport all Haitian because I have no problem with them making a living in DR but the massive presence that are now supplying jobs that any Dominican will do like construction which for a fact can support a better standards and higher salary is hurting the country.
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 10:16 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Yes because the situation in Haiti allows it doesn't mean people have to exploit it like many in DR are doing today. i.e. the construction workers salary paying Haitian the RD$250 a day when we know that minimum salary is RD$350 a day for an 8 hour day but because the supply/demand allows the exploitation then that is what's happening. Now they can easily support a much better work environment like higher salary of up to RD$450 and some workers insurance and still be very competitive locally. What i'm trying to tell you is just because they are hard worker doesn't hold a legal base for us to seat down and shut-up about illegal immigration and just because this situation benefits some doesn't mean is good for the country either.Bottom line business should be conducted in a legal manner and starts by conducting it with your own personal moral values which as I can see here are not as high as should be. So the "doing it because your neighbor did it attitude is simply not enough to me"
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 10:26 AM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
So simply because it happens in every other is no base to allow it to happen in DR is that simple. Haitian have to take their fight into the Haitian government just like we are taking ours into the DR government to regulate the situation. I just think your all of your statement are simply base on the fact that you are benefiting from the situation but fail to see how what you and others are doing is hurting business that are trying to play internationally. So is not simply because "I" want Dominican workers to have jobs and be pay what they are suppose to with the standards of a job site that is decent is just because Frank that is simply the law of the land and people like you are breaking it.I have never hired illegals but if I have to I know there is a way to do it legally by sponsoring them and that is a moral choice that each person has to make, Now that many have failed at doing it is not base to justify you following it. An argument based on illegal actions is simply BASELESS.
Written by: Atabey, 13 Jan 2010 10:48 AM
From: United States, NYC
Find a good organization to donate funds and supplies.
Two excellent organizations accepting donations for response to the Haiti quake are Oxfam America (
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/) and Partners in Health (
http://www.pih.org/). Both have staff on the ground and solid reputations.
http://www.oxfamamerica.orghttp://www.pih.org--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pierrecoteReal-time from Haiti, this guy seems very calm and on top of things though certainly overwhelmed on his little personal blog streaming site.
------------------------------
Another excellent group accepting donations is Doctors Without Borders which runs La Trinité trauma hospital in Port-au-Prince: www.doctorswithoutborders.org
-------------
I work for Save the Children, which has a significant presence in Haiti. Staff there and in the U.S. are working to mount a major response to the earthquake.
http://www.savethechildren.org.Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 11:34 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Belly,
you make excellent points and i don't neccessarily disagree with them, however, as i mentioned before, the market place determines the price of goods--i.e coffee, cacao, sugar, rice, etc. this in turn, determines the price of wages to workers. i agree, the dominican economy & the agriculture sector and building sectors can afford to pay 100 pesos more a day per worker but, if you do the math, a modest farm or construction site here has 20 to 30 workers. if you pay each worker 100 pesos more a day, that translates into (based on 30 workers) an extra 3000 pesos a day, 9000 pesos a month, and 1080000 pesos a year. Again, this will be unfeasable if in the market place the Bottom Falls out from underneath the produce sector because of a glut of rice, corn, coffee, cacao, on the market place. and this glut happens every year in more than a few items. compound this with government Subsidies & you got no way for the dominican, africa, or south americans able to compete in the market.
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 11:37 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Belly,
on a side note, tell me, how in the world did you come to the conclusion that i am somehow benefitting from the low wages paid to dominican workers, given the fact that i am dominican and make anywhere between 80 cents to $1.15 an hour--on the best of days!
Still, i feel you brother, and i agree with a lot of your points.
love frank
Written by: frank, 13 Jan 2010 12:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
One mroe thing about the Insanity of Subsidies:
it is impossible to control market prices, even more so when you have government subsidies under-selling nearly every agriculture product on the planet. a few years ago, i saw a documentary about U.S companies selling and exporting chicken to the dominican republic for less than a dominican can raise and sell a chicken here on this island. it turned out that the US company sold the chicken at a loss because of US gov. subisidies. But, it's not only chicken that get subsidized--all agriculture produce benefit from european and US government subsidies. in the same documentary, western european governments were under-selling produce to Africa for less than the africans were growing the same produce. now, if that's not insane, i don't know what is. basically, the tax payers in all these countries are subsidizing their own farmers to glut the market with produce, which in turns makes the bottom fall out, hurting third world countries.
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 12:43 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Frank
I said you are benefiting from the low salaries paid since your family runs a farm as per your statement and your family's bottom profit goes up when ever salary of workers go down. Anyways how can you make $0.80 an hour when you seen to be a smart man who speak 3 languages and your family owns a farm, LOL tell me the full story because to me is just doesn't add up. What do you work in DR, Where and did you go to school and earned a degree?
Much love to you!
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 12:50 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
Frank
USA has been trying this for years in the island. They did it to Haiti the worse in 1987 with forcing Haiti to lower it's tariff in imported rice which they did and went from 45% down to 3% currently which ran all rice farms out of business. Balaguer on the other hand warned Haiti not to do it because he already knew what was about to happen and when USA asked DR to do the same Balaguer did the opposite and raised from 40% to 67% which if you follow the news you will see why our rice farm have been so productive over all this time. What they did to Haiti was unconstitutional to pass such a law when the government had just been overthrown by USA and the defacto was force to sign it into law.
Written by: Belly, 13 Jan 2010 1:00 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
The practice of subsidizing products to make it hard for third world countries is coming to an end since most first world nation citizen are starting to see that is a waste of tax money and now is just backfiring as the standards of living in the victim countries goes up and more people are staring to see it.This one of those policy just like the exploitation of workers in DR that hurts the image of the country and makes it harder to conduct business internationally. That's why I'm a big advocate for this to stop because it can be deal with and still be competitive in the international market due to the fact that we are naturally fertile land and have almost perfect conditions for agriculture of almost every product without needing to go down low like some business have gone.We have a lot going our way if we know how to use our natural advantages that many just simply don't have.
From: Dominican Republic, I dislike all politicians and their afiliated parties... "I simply say it AS IT IS!!"
i say, ship them all back to haiti, and freaking seal the border!!!
they are not providing anything positive to our nation.
ship them all back...
where are those who really love our beautiful land...
dominicans for dominicans and everyone else who is willing to comply positively.
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Yes, bring on the Dominican construction worker. It's only their country. Aussie jerk.
Dude, what's up with that? This is 2010 not colonial times!
I think that this marks a turning point for the illegal Haitian community in DR for the reason I already mentioned. Now we'll have to wait to see which one of us is correct in their assesment. Again people, mark my words.
I am speaking from 8 years of direct experience working on numerous construction projects in the Dom Rep and Haiti. I have NO positive results to report by using Dominican workers and supervisors. They have proven themselves repeately to be lazy and they lie and cheat on an hourly basis. However the Haitian workers are hard working, turn up on time and when treated fairly and with respect conduct themselves in a calm and productive manner. I have 30million of projects under my belt on which I have based my comments. What did you contribute? Pointing out that Dominicans live in their country and that I am a jerk? Huge contribution to the debate - simple minded prick.
You come from a whole nation of pricks...a nation descended from the scum of Britain's jails and the surplus of her whore houses who's only contribution to western society has been Crocodile Dundee. For a person that seems to make a pretty good living on Dominican soil to then turn around and badmouth the sons of the very nation that allows him to butter his bread speaks volumes as to what type of person they are. Good day "sir".
I'm actually American-Dominican, thank you very much. Yes, all that you say about Australia is true but the fact remains that your forefathers where whore, pimps, and muderers en masse.
"As to working over here in the DR and Haiti rebuilding crumbling infrastructure. What an evil bastard I must be. "
Oh, no. You can't be evil. I'm sure your doing it for altruistic purposes and as a result your working for a pitance or maybe for free. Be serious. Now you're trying to paint youself as some type of huminatarian. Get a clue clown.
The proof is in the pudding, I too will side with Letmic, all those teenagers you see in the streets don't even respect their own family what would make you think any of them are able to take orders from anyone. Let alone work on a contruction site. Dominicans now, want to sit back and wait for a couple of dollars to come from a relative thats in the states and dream of picking dollars off the trees in NY. But, all the fault can't be blamed on the dominican public for acting this way. The President is to blame for not educating the masses and for not showing discipline to his children of the dominican republic.
Leo you prick, you had 10 years to create a new class of dominicans and you failed. You should be impeached and your wealth should be questioned.
the people will take matters into their own hands... It has begun. People say that Dominicans don't want haitian jobs??? I know people in rural areas that would work any open job
If you feel the the Dominican people are such scum, RJ, then please don't ever tell anyone your Dominican and carry on. There are those of us that are proud enough of the people they stem from that they more than make up for those such as yourself.
Would you care to name project in the million that you have under your belt in DR I would really love to know? Name a few and where they are located. I'm just interested to know since I have a lot of local knowledge of both Haiti and DR.
You've never seen me but....I have no ugly side!!:)
I worked for over 12 years in several Dominican Free Zones in both Santo Domingo and Santiago, and let me tell you that my experience as supervisor and manager is very different to what you mentioned, the majority of Dominican workers are very approachable, opened, receptive, smart, and easy to mould to company's core objectives. honor and character comes with every person and this is part of every supervisor job to identify the black sheeps. I don't have experience with Haitian workers because they were not hired in Free Zones (when I worked there), but I just cannot trust someone that in his insides bets on the horse that competes against me and my country, judging on the comments of the Haitian community in this site, this same sentiment is found on more than 50% the individuals I read here...this is a highly risky business for my taste.
"somehow we have managed to keep our country in better shape economically and in literacy of the general public"
You're not serious, right? Everything so far is on borrowed money and time. There is no disapline in 90% of the general public, theirfore, there is no government provided education for the majority public to have a literacy out come. Tu eres un BRUJO you can for see the future after Leo is gone.
You're not serious, right? Everything so far is on borrowed money and time. There is no disapline in 90% of the general public, theirfore, there is no government provided education for the majority public to have a literacy out come. Tu eres un BRUJO you can for see the future after Leo is gone.
Caballero si usted no entiende el tema de que se estas hablando en mi comentario, Por que usted se molesta en escribir algo que no tiene sentido y que facilmente puede ser verificado por los numeros de cada pais. Compai piense bien antes de hablar por que si usted lee mi comentario y el suyo se dara cuenta que usted esta hablando baba. Yo pense en responderle con la pueba pero depues pense, Si el no entiende mi comentario anterior para que confundo mas ha este tiguerito.
I am wondering how logic like this make news.
Not one time have i said Dominicans are scum, Thats your chain of thought. "
Listen, I am neither delusional nor is my mind clouded. If you need a reminder you agreed with a poster that called Dominicans thieves and lazy. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you go jumping on bandwagons. As for my chain of thought there is no need for you to guess as to what it is nor to assign opinions that are not mine because unlike you I can enunciate my thoughs with precision and with little room left for interpretation.
This is about management of Human Resources, conduct, cross-cultural sensitivity, lack of ethics and values, lack of composture...This kind of competencies and behaviours erode companies from inside.
Ensename! Yo tengo la capasidad. Por eso estamo aqui, para ver que loque esta pasando en el pais de uno.
Cibao,
You may have a different experience than others, but its impossible to understand the experience of all who visits the Dominican Republic. The Aussi Letmic, who is to say that this man didn't have a good encounter with Haitian construction workers. Like many people not just haitians, if treated unfair they would show aggression and lazzy people show their true colors and would rather sit under a mango tree while watching others work. So, you can't get teed off at individuals who categorize as they see it.
I still don't like Leo F. because he wears a skirt.
One comment is no necessarlly a response to the immediate preceeding comment..
Sorry, it was not directed to you .
Regarding the behavior of Haitians on job site,I would advise that when you hire peoplle with historicaly anachic tendancies you better give them a decent pay so they can keep their temperament under control
Or we will soon discover their true ugly sides under their disguise.
Te conozco bacalao , aunque vengas disfrazao.
I know it wasn't but I couldn't resist..LOL
"Ensename! Yo tengo la capasidad. Por eso estamo aqui, para ver que loque esta pasando en el pais de uno."
If you want to see it for yourself then go ahead and compare the two countries in Human Development index, Life expectancy, GDP PPP and many more fields and you will understand what my comment is referring to. I'm not going to post numbers here since all is going to do is start a flame war that is not my style nor it will help people here since most of the posters here know who is doing better from the top of their heads.I'm surprise you are asking me to prove you this kind of comparison when the topic of this article is about illegal immigrants from Haiti coming into DR. I thought you would have figure that if they are moving there is because it has to be better than what they had. Don't you think?
Dont buy the hand that feed you,,,i guess that is not taught in haiti
Dominican will never take over jobs the Haitians have, or they already would have. Simple as that.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/....1/entertainment/et-diane-sawyer11
Since the beginning of the Republic they have lived in Appalachia, original citizens of the what was to become the richest country the world has ever seen. Yet they live no better and at times worse than most third world people. You are in no position to look down on anyone Miller.
This is about management of Human Resources, conduct, cross-cultural sensitivity, lack of ethics and values, lack of composture...This kind of competencies and behaviours erode companies from inside."
perlurdom
Let's reflect here for a second, all the Haitians I mean every single Haitian is sooooo bad they are eroding these companies. These types of generalizations are laughable. You think adding Dominicans will make it better? There are reasons why Dominicans do not work these jobs, simply they are crappy. I doubt giving social security benefits is going to change that. I mean after all these years they realized a Haitian problem.
I think they realize maybe down the road a bigger problem and they are passing the buck on their Haitian workers.
RJ, you're still trying to defend an individual that insulted your people without reservation. You baffle me with this conduct. Perhaps you didn't read his initial comments carefully and unfortuntely you won't be able to because it has since been removed but I can assure you that he categorized the Dominican people as both thieves and lazy. You seem to have love of country so I'm going to have to assume that your reading comprehension failed you or that you simply didn't read the AuSSie'S comments in their entirety.
I wish I knew why you think that Appalachia is any thing new.
I am well aware of their situation and have been vocal about help and empowerment.
Now in terms of ‘looking down’ you Dominicans are so easy. You are transparent about your corruption and wear it as a badge of honor.
Your leaders are the ones I “look down on”, they are the ones who are supposed to be educated, moral, objective people.
They are not, everything but.
Would ANY American pick grapes for a living, NEVER happen.
But if I hear an American complaining about not having a job, I say “You can get a job, it is just not the job you think you deserve.”
And typically the conversation ends there.
With Dominicans, you people are swearing that Dominican will do what the Haitians do and you know that is a complete lie. NEVER happen.
Take responsibility for your country and make some changes.
You're assuming. Anyone who grew up in the states and has travelled this country extensively is more than aware of what's going on in Appalachia. I've drank moonshine and have enjoyed bluegrass with the best of them.
No one is wearing corruption as a badge of honor and the individual from Australia who you have come on here to agree with was NOT directing his derrogatory comments toward the Dominican political class but to the Dominican people in GENERAL. I'll be the first to say that the elite in DR has, for the most, no moral compass whatsoever. But I will not tolerate someone categorizing the people I stem from enmasse in derogatory terms, not here and I can assure you not in person either.
If the price is right I'll not only find white Americans to pick grapes but a nose or two as well. I suggest you get out and travel IN the US. There are parts of the country that are struggling mightily where damn near any job will be welcome.
The operative word is "If the price is right ", which it is NOT, so NO one will. Period.
Are the Haitians enjoying the same incentives right now? One can be sure not. And why are they become hostile to their foremen and supervisors? Aren't those latters prone to mistreat them or to call their names? Why don't having meetings with their ring leaders, and take notice of their grievances if they have some. We must remember that they're not unionized.
No, as usual, they are low life scums who must endure and accept everything. And as for the stealing thing, it is hard to believe because the Haitian peasant will hardly take the chance to rob another one, because he knows by doing that, it is either him or his victim who will lose his head.
yes, i both live here and work here in Cabarete. My name is Frank-I'm easy to find. i work for a little less than $1 dollar an hour. i can say unequivically that every single Haitian i've worked with or around is not only the furthest thing from Lazy but, unbelievably hard working. they make many Americans & Dominicans--of which i'm one--look like the spoiled and lazy people we're becoming. drive down the coast from Puerto Plata to Samana and tell me what do you see at 6pm every evening? Yep, you guessed it-Haitain workers walking miles back home, turning off and then walking deep into the hills where they live. they work for less than $5 a day--hard, back breaking work! Then, look at the highway at 6am, what do you think you see?
How much do you think those Haitians would be paid if they decided to stay in Haiti to do the same 12 hour back-breaking work?
Thanks for enlighting us - I suppose almost everybody in DT knows these facts even though they do not want to admit it.
However Frank, looking at your heading and your statement that your family run farms are exploiting the Haitiens or Dominicans with a salary of $4 a day is a disgrace. If the profit of your farming is at such a low outcome that you have to have people working for 4 a day you should consider closing down and start some other business. On the other hand if your farms are profitable and you still pay 4 a day its a crime.
The same guy would make only $5 to $7 a day in Mexico.
My thoughts exactly, Viking. He should be embarrassed for being promoting haitian/dominican slavery so openly and shamelessly. If he had any decency in him, he would at least demand from his family to provide decent lodgings for their workers. Slavers are truly the scum of the earth.
I totally desagree with you my friend Lautaro with that comment of yours, and forgive my bluntness, but I think your animosity toward our friend Frank derived from the fact that he states things bluntly as they are. The way my people are being exploited in your land is paid slavery at its best. However, I am not going to fire red bullets on your people because they pay them a miserable and famine salary. Why? Because we're embedded in a Capitalist system whose base rest on profit and more profit, period.
I am very grateful to Frank's family for hiring my countrypeople, because back home, they wouldn't have received half of these four$/day for the same time/shift.
Well, you should not be, cuz' as long as there are slavers like him and his family on this side of the fence, haitians will never have the motivation to change their sorry status in their own land, as in, having no other choice than to kick the butts of the affranchi elites holding them back, or die trying. As long as they can access the migration escape valve, haitians will not fight back to uplift themselves and their country along with them, the same holding true for all our countries.
Would have been that pissed against them for not giving us more with all the benefits? Objectivity seems to be very hard to catch these days my friend. But, I understand you. You are a true Dominican patriot who will defend his country and people even if he must ignore their little sins. However, when you meet one who is fitted with the sense of justice like myself, you mustn't try to get on his case the way you are doing now.
Well, my friend Laut, if his family is a slaver one as you said, then the whole Dominican nation is composed of slaverers. C'mon Laut! Even in my greatest moment of anger toward your people, I wouldn't be so harsh. You must acknowledge when someone is impartially right, because impartiality is a very rare quality these days.
back to usd4 a day compared to 2 a day in Haiti. Would you by any chance accept usd8 a day in Canada for any given work??
I do not know the cost of living in Haiti back in 74-75 but Im quite sure you were exploited like hell.
2.) So, going on some of the logic here, should every company in th U.S be closed down for hiring Mexicans,hondurans, el salvadorans, etc?
3.) Just because a Haitian would be payed less in Haiti, or a Mexican would be payed less in Mexico, does that make exploitation right? I certainly don't see, nor have i ever seen, any Haitian protests in the streets, demanding better pay. the simple fact is that Haitians, like Mexicans, like my dominican father, fled their home countries to work abroad, and were happy to do so. thankfully, my dad didn't have people throwing shit at him and blaming him for all their troubles. and yet, here, many of you guys are blaming the Haitians for all of Domincan troubles. That's how i know most of you do not live here! Come down here and work for less than $1 an hour, then comment
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Are you selling bacalao??
So now i'm promoting Dominican/Haitain slavery? Come again? how did you come to this enlightened, intelligent conclusion, given the fact that i work for around 80 cents an hour?
I stand for what I have said. As long as our countries have open the emigration option, none of our countrymen will have the motivation to fight back the political and mafiosi elements holding them back. Only when a country finds itself cornered with no other options available is when its true character is shown. By emigrating, they only become somebody else's problem.
frank answered: "yep, i know this all to well because, the Haitians are working for my families farms in Bonao--cutting Cocao, milking cows--all for what? Yep, you guessed it...$4 dollars a day, and they sleep on the Alimento sacks and whatever foam and brown bags they can gather together, next to the cow pastors. Isn't life grand??"
If this is not a proud statement about how your family is exploiting those people, then I don't know what the f*ck it is. A confesión de partes, relevo de pruebas.
Again, I ask you, Lautaro, how do you come to the conclusion that "i'm making proud statements about my family?"
Where in my statement did you sense "Bragging?"
Where in my statement did you sense i am Proud?
I simply made a statement of fact.
In the cynical tone in which you made the statement "Isn't life grand??", when the chief emotion that I would feel if I were in a similar position would be infinite embarrassment and shame. But of course, I'm not a soulless dog-eat-dog capitalist nor an apologist of this system
What are you doing to help the plight of domincans or haitians down here?
Using you're keen obersvation for detail, your amazing gift for logic, and your amazing ability to come to conslusions that i'm "promoting" and "proud" of my families wages, tell me, what exactly do you think i do for a living that would warrant me earning only 80 cents an hour down here?
Before you come and throw the absentee accusation on my person, please, look the place from which I'm posting from and my IP address in the forum. If something, I'm better equipped more than you will ever be for talking about the realities of this country, as I have to take the streets of this capital and travel to the towns of this country almost every day and week of a single year to earn my bread.
If you are a legal worker in the DR you are underpaid, minimum wage is $1.16/hr.
My friend Lautaro,
Excuse me, but I think you have lost it due to the fact that Frank hasn't embarked in the Haitian bashing bandwagon. The man wasn't bragging. he was just being exhaling what we may call "cynically desillusionned expression, and that's the reason why he let go in a sad sigh : "Isn't life grand?"
I told you again people, there are smart Haitian folks watching you on this blog. You can try to fool others and yourselves, but they will always be able to read you. Therefore, my friend I suggest you leave my friend Frank in peace, because he the only Dominican that reminds me my long time deceased friend. And if someone get on his case for nothing, I'll get on his too. See? I am not a Dominican hater like some of you always pretend.ed.
Yes, I understand your game now. It's called H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y (or as Belly would affectionately term it, E-LOVE from afar), cuz' you forgive the existence of slavery in Haiti while ranting to the four winds against it in dominican soil. You're either wholly against it or in favor of it, friend, cuz' as you and others like to say "you can't have it both ways". Carry on and get cozy with him if you must.
and by the way, i stand corrected about not noticing the fact that you live in Santo Domingo. i apologize for that over-sight.
Part of my job involves being a pollster for a private institution that makes socioeconomic studies all around the country, but my total earnings are around US$800 monthly, which would be enough if I weren't the main provider of my home, being the older brother of the house and having to take care of my mom, grandma and little brother. Were it not for the crimewave afflicting the zone, I'd gladly live in Santiago, San Francisco de Macoris or my family's ancestral home in Valverde, cuz' I love the Cibao more than any other region of this country.
i work with around 25 people, we all make the same wage. the wage is $6400 pesos a month. if you divide $6400 by 160 hours a month, i believe you get 40 pesos an hour. or slightly more than $1 an hour. but, during the summer months, we make slightly less, and this is when we get around 80 cents on the dollar.
You will never reach the end of the tunnerl with our friend Lautaro, for if you are not a Haitian basher, you won't earn his favours.
I suggest to you to agree to desagree with him and to switch to a less emotion driven interlocutor. I remember having with him last year a lenghty debate about something I don't really remember, and I had to just give up.
Believe me Frank, you are an asset for your country and your people, and I think if you were in Leonie shoes, the Dominican Republic would have been a better place to live.
Keep your chin high and your shoulders squared and level my friend.:-)
I think if you were in Leonie shoes, the Dominican Republic would have been a better place to live.
If Frank was in Leonel's shoes today I would be the first one to donate money to start a coup d'tat my friend. That you like him to be our President is enough reason after all the hate you have shown on your comments for me not to want him to be in Leonel's shoes so please save you vote for choosing a president for Haiti if ONE day you decide to take a trip back to your homeland in the mean time ALLOW us Dominicans to keep choosing our leaders. If there was a election for president between Frank and Lautaro my vote is no doubt goes to Mr. Lautaro no questions asked.
Gmiller,
One of my employees is an ex-navy fighter pilot. Believe it or not, he owns a small winery in the New York Finger Lakes and he and his wife run the entire operation: from picking the grapes to making the wine and bottling it and selling it. They make 8k-10k bottles a year.
He is an incredible person; even though he is very wealthy, you'll never know it. He built his own airplane; he is a capable machinist, runs marathons, works two full-time jobs; etc. BTW, he is 62 years old and has a 10 years old daughter.
I feel privileged to know this individual.
MJEV.
Frank,
After reading your well-constructed, defended commentaries, I come to the inevitable conclusion that you are a well-educated individual with much higher than average reasoning and intelligence and great command of English language. Latter attribute suggests that you were educated outside DR, for it could have been difficult, but maybe not impossible, to have acquired that level of proficiency in DR.
With these incredible attributes, I am having much difficulty rationalizing your position in life and your income. It simply doesn't add up. There are many here with less than half your intelligence and overall knowledge who are earning considerably more than you.
Are you being honest with us or are you just messing with our minds in a rather perverse manner? Or are you just pursuing your passion and somehow doing altruistic and charitable work, while eschewing income?
MJEV.
Your commitment to and sacrifice for family is admirable, indeed. Thought people with those traits disappeared more than a generation ago. I am sure you shall be rewarded for your unselfish actions.
MJEV.
I might have voted for Lautaro too, but not for the same reason you would have send him to the highest office. I'd vote for him because, even though he is not too fond of Haitians (his body language speaks for him), but he is moderate enough, and has never shown the kind of vitriolic rhetoric some of you are spiting here every day.
But I think in reality my choice would have been Frank, because he is the best and the brightest among you all. And once again, the reason why you might not like him is because he never lower himself in demonizing and lambasting the Haitians the way the hatemongers among you love to do it.
Keep talking, but put in your mind that we haitians, when educated, are among the brghtest. Therefore, making the mistake to think when you are throwing ballony it is only illiterate peasants that are listening or reading you, will always keep you in your delusional mental state.
Do you really believe people take you seriously around here?
First you call Dominican dummies and that you want them all shot dead and now That Frank made a comment on your favor all of a sudden you want him to be the president of DR. You call us hate-monger but guess what when it comes to the topic of racial hate history is not on your side.What Frank may not know is that he is talking to a person that want to take his land and kill ALL Dominican because according to OUPALA07 we should have never existed.
By the way I don't run my friend I can easily be found in Houston or San Francisco de Macoris unlike you I'm NOT afraid of going back to my country as much as possible. Like I said take a trip back to Haiti since you haven't ever since you had the chance to get out. You are such a brave-heart soldier why are you afraid of getting on a plane back to Haiti and help your country because it needs you but for you is easier to leave and don't look back. Typical coward!.
From: Dominican Republic, Caberete, Norway, USA
Would you be kind enough to enligthen us why you put in freezing Norway above, since you say you are a Dominican.
You didnt tell us what kind of work you do for 80cents an hour. There are quite a few rich people doing charity work or low paid work just to put themselves in less affortunate shoes. For all we know you might receive USD1000 a week from your stake in the farms. You sure dont sounds like a guy who cant get paid more than 80cents an hour.
You what?
I am so glad Haitians finally came to their senses and started acting up in a more PROPER manner.
Next... torch the Ingeniero's Jepetas.
this is this ignorant and backward attitude that have brought so much misery to haiti
" koupe tet.boule kay"
"chop heads off and burn down houses"
remember your anarchic reflexes will be curbed with deadly force in the dominican republic,
this is not the jpp or jtt haiti.
jpp, jtt =no consequences for destructive actions
There are two types of Dominicans in my book: the "Dummies" and the "Domis". And I think every single hatemonger among you knows which one between these two terms refers to who.
And you my friend, with a few others, are the ring leaders of the Dummies. You are so full of it that you don't even spare your own nationals when they state clearly that you are wrong, because what you really expect from everybody here is to embark onboard of your hateful rhetoric bandwagon.
keep dirtying your pants because one way or the other, you'll have to stop shitting in them or wipe your butt with your hand due to lack of toilet paper.
Frank and a very few others among you shouldn't be Dominicans: they are too smart and justice prone in order to have you as countrymen.
Like I said before you need to take a trip back to your motherland and help the country you e-love so much Haiti by providing solutions to it. Once you decide to get your lazy ass out the -20C whether of Canada and visit the the country you claim e-love and actually prove it by action instead of trash talking because as it stands now you sound like the kid on the block who needs to call attention and can't find anybody to talk to in Canada. LOL so if Frank doesn't deserve to be Dominican since he is too much for such a country like ours why don't you allow the man you call a dummy and want shot dead "Frank and all Dominican" to be the one to choose since you don't know him at all and probably never will. Get your lazy ass out of Canada and do something for your country other than making it look worse to the general public with your hate against the country that feed many of the ones you turned you back, heck maybe some of your own family too.
"yes, i both live here and work here in Cabarete. i work for a little less than $1 dollar an hour. i can say unequivically that every single Haitian i've worked with or around is not only the furthest thing from Lazy but, unbelievably hard working. they make many Americans & Dominicans--of which i'm one--look like the spoiled and lazy people we're becoming. drive down the coast from Puerto Plata to Samana and tell me what do you see at 6pm every evening? Yep, you guessed it-Haitain workers walking miles back home, turning off and then walking deep into the hills where they live. they work for less than $5 a day--hard, back breaking work! Then, look at the highway at 6am, what do you think you see?"
Like every good propagandist hatemonger, you think you are very good at distorting people speech in order to return their words against them.
Frank is among the friendly Dominicans I affectionately call "Domis" or "Domies," but you and the others preachers of violence against Haitians are "Dummies."
Only retarded like you must physically see a person in order to juge him. I don't know Frank, but it will be a pleasure to drink a few bottles of Prestige with him in Haiti, or Molson dry in a cozy italian bar in Montreal. I am sorry for the Presidente even though it tastes good, for I have decided to boycott the Dominican products.
Belly my friend, go back to your books, you are no match for this fight.
Others may not take me seriously, however, it looks like that I am your worse nightmare, because you seem to not being able to restrain yourself from going after my comments, and to try to distort and twist everything I say.
I have already told you I am a fan of the tit fot tat and an eye for eye game.
Believe me my friend, I am an expert of getting under someone's skin, most of all, if he has no processing power LOL LOL LOL
earlier, i made two comments of observationsal fact about Haitian workers here. i stand behind those comments. if someone feels they are inappropriate, why not address them and give that person the opportunity to answer for his or her opinions.
i would think it would be in everyone's interest to have every argument out in the open where, every one is given the fair opportunity to question, address, and challenge one's arguments without three people flagging someone's opinion, and hence, sending that person's opinion away where it can longer be addressed or challenged.
However, if someone is flagged simply because 3 people get offended, what we end up here with is not a discussion or debate but instead, behavior modification surrendering--
Can you prove where have I ever made a comment here about preaching for violence against Haitian. See now you are running out of trash to talk, So you have to make up stuff I have never said to distort the fact that all I have done is ask for lazy asses like you to actually do something for your country to clean up it's image, But you are doing the opposite by prolonging to accept the fact that I'm asking for to much from you. Somebody who has never bothered to look back at their motherland and return the favor by improving it.So if calling lazy asses like your self to do something for your country is hate-mongering according to you, Then guess what I am a hate monger then! Happy now?
Because of people like you who claim to e-love Haiti yet have never bothered to visit it or improve it by contributing to it's progress by monetary resources or physical presence and sharing what you claim to know. Once again lazy ass get up and do something for your country.
That's not a debate, that then becomes behavior modification gone astray.
Frank, what is it you're trying to say? Are you trying to say that those Dominicans that live abroad should keep quiet when it comes to what's transpiring in their country of origin?
You better start lambasting Haitians the same way the hatemongers are doing it here, because your straighttalking impartiality prone character is very incompatible with their hypocrit one. Now, like they used to do to me, the moderators are starting to "enforce" your right of free speech by deleting your comments, but in the same time, they are giving an audience to the hatemongers.
I wouldn't want you to be crucified just because you are among the cream of your people.
No wonder why your country is still stuck in its colonial past.
I guess it was me or some friendly Domies who wrote these flattering comments about Haitians and not you.
Written by: Belly, 7 Jan 2010 8:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Here is a quote from an article in Periodico Hoy.
"According to the military authorities and the Directorate of Migration in the north, at least 2,450 Haitians trying to enter the country have been arrested and repatriated to their country this week."
Dated 1/7/2010
To those that claim there is not invasion going on think again.
So the question is if it sound like a duck,Quack like a duck and walks like a duck then it is a DUCK.
Written by: Belly, 7 Jan 2010 9:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Lautaro
A better one is "Perro que ladra no muerde"
Written by: Belly, 8 Jan 2010 12:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic, San Francisco and Houston,Texas
Ranaru
“and about the almost 500,000 Haitian kids sold as slaves for as little as US$20.00 inside Haiti today as we speak. They accused of trying to talk Haiti down when in fact there is documents and video to support it.”
I guess it was me or some friendly Dommies who wrote these flattering comments about Haitians and not you.
You running out of gas because where does it promotes violence against Haitian. Deporting ILLEGAL immigrants back to where they came from is not promoting violence against them is actually following the LAWS that WE as a country have in place. Now that you are unable to make stuff up about me you are mad to the point your comprehension of the English language is failing at it's basics.
"To those that claim there is not invasion going on think again.
So the question is if it sound like a duck,Quack like a duck and walks like a duck then it is a DUCK."
Yes I stand by my quote because having a Haitian presence in DR is not the problem but having almost 2 million of them where most are illegal it is a huge problem but what do you know about it you are not the one paying the price of your country's irresponsibility. Like I said before the cold weather is hurting yo
Are you getting brain damage due to the cold weather in Canada, I know is cold up there but man is really affecting you.How does putting light on a subject that your own people putting their kids into slavery some how now promotes violence against Haitian in DR.
Like I said your comprehension of the English language is once again FAILING at it's basics. Take a break before your brain gets fried or I should say freeze due to the cold weather up there. LOL LOL
his innocence !
where have i insinuated that domincans living abroad should not be allowed to voice there opinion? I asked a fair question: How many people commenting here live here, and hence, work with both haitians and dominicans?
Every opinion here should be heard, and hence, every opinion should be given the opportunity to be challenged and questioned without the fear of offending 3 people who can flag any argument even if it does not contain offensive language or inappropriate accusations. my first two posts here were flagged. i think this is a little authoritarian given the fact that neither one of them used inappropriate language. never-the-less, whats done is done. my only point here is that by flagging every argument one does not agree with ends up ostracizing that person so that he or she is not allowed to voice their opinion, even when no offensive langauage has been used. furthermore, it then creates a "Herd" mentality where, the only people left behind to voice their-
Surrendering to political correctness of a few individuals is not a debate. where is the intellectual debate in this? Where is the intellectual debate where a select few can direct, and eventually, manipulate the debate by flagging a persone three times, sending him or her--or their argument--out of the discussion.
That's not debate, this then becomes behavior modification gone astray.
1. I work alongside Haitians; they fill jobs no dominican could possibly want.
2. Haitians are not stealing "Prime high-paying" jobs.
3. visit any jail here. the Haitians in jail here, for the most part, are in jail for being here illegally. the Domincans, however are in jail for illegal activities; many of them have spent time in the USA and brought back with them a nice violent streak that gravitates towards firearms. Very pretty.
4. every dominican-myself included--has relatives working in the USA & europe legally & illegally.
5. My father was one of these "illegal" immigrants. he did jobs no americans in their right mind would do. and certainly not for the amount of money he was being paid.
7. dominicans are not stupid; they're not going to work all day long in the Sugar Cane fields for little to no pay. Haitians do that kind of work. Dominicans are not going to milk cows and attend cows up in the mountains for 12 hours a day for little to no pay. Haitians do that work. likewise for Americans; they're not going to do the kind of back-breaking work in Monfort slaughter house in Nebraska and Colorado for little to no pay. Mexicans and Domincans, and unfotunately myself, do that kind of work. Americans are not going to be bell-boys, bus-boys, etc, in New York city and Miami, working for little to no money; Dominicans, including my father, do that kind of work.
I work in Norway for half the year. Over the years, i hear the same racial crap and blame game that i do here: get rid of the Polish and the Pakistanians! They're lazy and they take our good jobs! that's absolute BS. the only jobs they take, just like the Haitians, are menial labor jobs that no Norwegian would ever do in a million years.
If you live and work here like i do, what you see are Haitians, like my father in the USA, taking jobs that no domincan, including poor dominicans, would ever do for the money that's being paid. again, dominicans are not stupid; no race is stupid. the only jobs the haitinas are taking are the absolute bottom of the barrel--back-breaking, menial labor, jobs that pay almost nothing and require 12 hours a day of hard, hard work.
If you are a Dominican you need a visa to enter the Schengen countries, one of them being Norway. If you are illegally in Norway you make at least usd10/hour upwards taxfree for any given job. If you are legally in Norway at least usd15/hour upwards taxed ditto. How come you go back to DR after 6months working for 80cents/hour. It makes no sense unless you are a machocist. Theres more to it than you have given.
Why are you harassing the man, and what the f*ck do you want to know about his privalte life. If you really are the descendant of one of the ruthless murderer thug the world have ever known why dont you enjoy the 3 or 5000 dollars a month the Norwegian gorvernment is sending to you so generously? Can't you see that we have enough problem to solve on this island?
Why don't you tell your government that instead of welfaring a bunch of lazy dudes, it doesn't instead loan some of its billions of oil and gas revenues to the DR and to Haiti because we are in deep shit economically.
It is always easy for cowards to play pickyupers. There are some people here who deserve to be respected and Domies or Haitians if someone pick on them, you pick on me. Why don't you go back on sakapfet.com if you have nothing positive to say here?
his innocence !"
It is normal for me to be an attraction, because everybody can see that I am not afraid of the Dummies of your kind.
As for innocence LOL LOL LOL
I am pretty sure that someone, fitted with a little bit more processing power than your little Dummy brain, will be able to rapidly sort between you and I who's the real innocent. LOL LOL LOL
I have already told you to stop shitting inside your pants because you're running of toilet paper and you're running the risk to have to wipe it with your hand. LOL LOL LOL
By the way you keep trumpetting why I have never gone back to Haiti. Well, who told you that I am not talking to you from Haiti right now. See? the real brainless innocent is you my friend. Go recycle yourself, because you're out of service and no more useful.
calm down man, its not good for your hearth. As far as I can see Frank is more than capable of speaking for himself without you babysitting. By the way it's not to smart to call anyone lazy dudes and next ask for money.
If it was all up to me, yea both Haiti and Dominican should receive billions of usd, some of it free and some at very low interest rate, however on conditions it would benefit the poor first of all. How would that be possible?? When it comes to haiti it is a great shame the world want do more.
Scandiviking,
Hei Pa deg Venn, Jeg ogsa vet ikke hvorfor jeg jobber har for 80 pesos!? Av og til, jeg tenke jeg ar liten gal, skrullet!!! Men, jeg elsker min venner har, terreng, min fetter, onkel, tante, etc. jeg har fodt i USA men, far min er Dominikansk; han kommer fra Bonao. jeg bor i norge hver sommer og host, og jobber pa restaurants og vaske ogsa, av og til. jeg fortjene ikke sa mye, kansje kr.120 per timer. Jeg beklager sa mye fordi, jeg snakke veldig darlig norsk
Du snakker jo meget bra Norsk. Håper du blir tatt godt imot i Norge når du er der. Dersom du er i Bergen så kan vi treffes. Jeg er sammen med en dame fra SD, men har ikke vært der på en stund. Dersom vi skulle være i DR på samme tid kunne vi jo også treffes. Min forlovede i SD ønsker å reise til Norge og du kunne kanskje fortelle henne hvordan du opplever å bo der.
Klokken er 3 om morgenen her nå så jeg skal sove.
Forresten, det er helt jævlig at Haiti igjen har blitt påført enda en katastrofal ødeleggelse.
Håper vi snakkes - ha det bra!
jeg bor i Oslo, pa Gronnlokker, men jeg jobber pa Alexanders Kjellig Plass. Jeg jobber for en Norsk man; han heter Ketel. Han kommer fra Molde. han er veldig snill. jeg prove a jobber hver dag nar jeg er i Oslo. Det er sant! jeg like jobber sa mye fordi penger er sa ganske bra!!
Jeg jobber pa en restaurant/bar pa Alexanders Kjellig Plass, heter Park Lounge men, adresse og nummer ligge ikke pa gulesider. Jeg vet ikke hvorfor men, Park Lounge ligge neste til en restaurant heter Cafe Isabella.
So according to you because Dominican go to others countries then we have no base to keep our border in order. Your argument to defend illegal immigration is pointless and I understand that you and your family benefits from it but from you to expect that every Dominican should believe illegal immigration should be allow in our country.Second point most of your argument goes around that Dominicans will do the job that Haitians do if the Salary allow for them to live a standard of living that will support their family but then you fail to see that bringing in illegals that have no way to protest higher salary because they are illegally inside the country with lower living of standard to compete with Dominican workers who expect to live better because the country allows it. Don't you see the flaw in your whole argument about who is the one suffering in DR just because Haiti has fail to provide the basic for it's people.Don't you see how it affects our workers?
You are basing your whole argument based of nothing because Dominican Laws have nothing to do with any other country each country follow it's own path to progress and Haiti just like every other independent nation must find it's path to support it's citizens. Just because they are hard worker is a legal base to allow illegal immigration into DR. The rule of the law does not make exceptions because when something happens to Haitian because people who employee them and exploit them and take advantage of their status then the image of the country suffers because people classify all Dominicans as being abusers. In your case you are taking advantage of their illegal status and you should feel shameful of committing illegal action and wearing them as badge of honor in the public.Your illegal actions hurt others who are actually conducting business according to the law because it brings the credibility down in the worldwide stage.
First, i don't recall implying that the DR "Has no base to keep it's borders in order." However, what i did suggest, and i am again suggesting it here, is this: every country, including the USA, Western Europe, South America, Africa, and Asia, all have illegal immigrants that migrate to countries to fill jobs that no one else wants. this is the law of supply and demand, and it works no better than in any given free market place of which the DR is but just one example. Ilegal immigration goes on in countries that are at currently at war, war torn, at peace, or whom are either rich or poor. there is no way to stop it because illegals are simply filling the void (the market place) in positions that no one else wants.
This doesn't mean that you open your borders to everyone, it simply means that you try to better manage the borders and try and document workers. not the U.S nor Isreal, with all their fantastic border control are able to stop illegal workers. it cannot be done.
Do not buy into the argument that if you increase wages of low paying jobs that lay on the bottom of the barrel--i.e sugar cane work, milking cows, cutting cacao, picking coffee, etc. that this will in turn, reverse illegal immigration. it won't. it never has. one reason you cannot do this is simply because the market place will not support the higher wages that would be required. people around the world are not willing to pay $3 for a cup of coffee just so you can increase your workers wages; people are not willing to pay $3 for chocolate so your cacoa workers can be domincans; people are not willing pay $8 for a pound of sugar. first, it will never happen because every western european country, including the US subsidizes it agriculture and farmers. secondly, the market place will not support higher prices for goods that are not neccessary like chocolate, coffeee, sugar, etc. The world market dictates prices for goods; a farmer has absolutely no say so what-so-ever.
we could go on for days talking about realistic economic principles and the laws of supply and demand in the market place. however, it doesn't change the fact that the world market will not support higher prices for goods just because you want to hire dominican workers and pay them more. some years there is a "glut" on the market of sugar, rice coffee, chocolate, etc and the bottom falls out from underneath it. some years there are bumper crops, etc. you cannot control this. every one tries to controll it, they've been trying for centuries, however, it is impossible to control market prices, even more so when you have government subsidies under-selling nearly every agriculture product on the planet. a few years ago, i saw a documentary about U.S companies selling and exporting chicken to the dominican republic for less than a dominican can sell a chicken here. it turned out that the US company sold the chicken at a loss because of subisidies. that's insane!
I am sending $100,00 to Haiti.
The Haitian palace ,the incubator of greed, dilapidation of Haiti;s coffers,political assassination and torture,black magic is gone.
God is speaking now.
God said let start Haiti,s capital from the ground up.
Ho Ho Ho Haitian people ,crisis mean danger and opportunity.
So you are basically saying that higher wages won't bring Dominicans to work in those positions that many have worked for centuries.Your argument is based around something that simply is not realistic and the same rhetoric that Dominican "worker won't do that job" well I was born and raised in the cibao and I know for a fact Dominicans still milk cows, cut coffee and all others but salaries have been brought to a point where any legal worker just won't survive on it. The reason salaries are that low is because the never ending supply of workers feeding it with no rights for claim which makes it perfect for business and bad for the general public.I'm not saying to deport all Haitian because I have no problem with them making a living in DR but the massive presence that are now supplying jobs that any Dominican will do like construction which for a fact can support a better standards and higher salary is hurting the country.
Two excellent organizations accepting donations for response to the Haiti quake are Oxfam America (http://www.oxfamamerica.org/) and Partners in Health (http://www.pih.org/). Both have staff on the ground and solid reputations.
http://www.oxfamamerica.org
http://www.pih.org
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http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pierrecote
Real-time from Haiti, this guy seems very calm and on top of things though certainly overwhelmed on his little personal blog streaming site.
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Another excellent group accepting donations is Doctors Without Borders which runs La Trinité trauma hospital in Port-au-Prince: www.doctorswithoutborders.org
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I work for Save the Children, which has a significant presence in Haiti. Staff there and in the U.S. are working to mount a major response to the earthquake.
http://www.savethechildren.org.
you make excellent points and i don't neccessarily disagree with them, however, as i mentioned before, the market place determines the price of goods--i.e coffee, cacao, sugar, rice, etc. this in turn, determines the price of wages to workers. i agree, the dominican economy & the agriculture sector and building sectors can afford to pay 100 pesos more a day per worker but, if you do the math, a modest farm or construction site here has 20 to 30 workers. if you pay each worker 100 pesos more a day, that translates into (based on 30 workers) an extra 3000 pesos a day, 9000 pesos a month, and 1080000 pesos a year. Again, this will be unfeasable if in the market place the Bottom Falls out from underneath the produce sector because of a glut of rice, corn, coffee, cacao, on the market place. and this glut happens every year in more than a few items. compound this with government Subsidies & you got no way for the dominican, africa, or south americans able to compete in the market.
on a side note, tell me, how in the world did you come to the conclusion that i am somehow benefitting from the low wages paid to dominican workers, given the fact that i am dominican and make anywhere between 80 cents to $1.15 an hour--on the best of days!
Still, i feel you brother, and i agree with a lot of your points.
love frank
it is impossible to control market prices, even more so when you have government subsidies under-selling nearly every agriculture product on the planet. a few years ago, i saw a documentary about U.S companies selling and exporting chicken to the dominican republic for less than a dominican can raise and sell a chicken here on this island. it turned out that the US company sold the chicken at a loss because of US gov. subisidies. But, it's not only chicken that get subsidized--all agriculture produce benefit from european and US government subsidies. in the same documentary, western european governments were under-selling produce to Africa for less than the africans were growing the same produce. now, if that's not insane, i don't know what is. basically, the tax payers in all these countries are subsidizing their own farmers to glut the market with produce, which in turns makes the bottom fall out, hurting third world countries.
I said you are benefiting from the low salaries paid since your family runs a farm as per your statement and your family's bottom profit goes up when ever salary of workers go down. Anyways how can you make $0.80 an hour when you seen to be a smart man who speak 3 languages and your family owns a farm, LOL tell me the full story because to me is just doesn't add up. What do you work in DR, Where and did you go to school and earned a degree?
Much love to you!
USA has been trying this for years in the island. They did it to Haiti the worse in 1987 with forcing Haiti to lower it's tariff in imported rice which they did and went from 45% down to 3% currently which ran all rice farms out of business. Balaguer on the other hand warned Haiti not to do it because he already knew what was about to happen and when USA asked DR to do the same Balaguer did the opposite and raised from 40% to 67% which if you follow the news you will see why our rice farm have been so productive over all this time. What they did to Haiti was unconstitutional to pass such a law when the government had just been overthrown by USA and the defacto was force to sign it into law.
they are not providing anything positive to our nation.
ship them all back...
where are those who really love our beautiful land...
dominicans for dominicans and everyone else who is willing to comply positively.