Nice going petit garcon.

Jose-ano el haitiano bufon no halla que hablar.

jose n ann shut your face up !
Leave LION-NEL alone !

ta jodio Santiago con tanto ilegales. Acabo de llegar de un viaje a Santiago pero pense que estaba en Haiti

Like always blaming Haitians for everything just like here they blame undocumented Mexicans for everything!

Coño compaí xwill7-eso si e verdad, se jodío esta vaina y Leonel sigue hablando bonito pero con el dedo petido en el fullín.

I get so tired of seing so many hyperbolic comments coming from some posters that it is difficult to remain civil. It is very obvious that some of you hate the Dominican Rep or anything Dominican. My advice to you is to stay out of Dominican websites and concentrate your time and energy in helping those that you carry a torch for.
I didn't grow up disliking people from any nationality, but it got to the point where now I don't like Haitians that much after reading over and over so many nasty and hateful comments from Haitians or pro Haitians. Perhaps it might have been better if I had not started reading comments sent to Dominican Today

The above article states very clearly that this murder was committed "allegedly by Haitians". I don't see how that can be construed as "already being found guilty" or that Haitians are always blamed for everything. I see plenty of negative news where only Dominicans are being blamed.

Edward-Tamboril is a small but proud agricultural town located in the tobacco growing region of the Cibao. It is a close knit rural community where locals know and have known each other for generations. This is not about mistaken identity or finding a scape goat to blame, it is rather about a very serious social problem that exist and if left alone will gradually excalate into something worse.

It is fact, there is alway friction when foreign outsiders first come new into an area and only with time, through a gradual generational fusion will the rough edges smooth out and the two will be able to eventually co-exist together in peace. However, while this might happen and work in other parts of the DR, it will be a tough cookie to break in the Cibao region, where the most traditional Dominican families are have been the corner stone and the turning point from which the Republic was born, shaped and transformed into what became the Dom Rep as a nation.

guillermo,
man my friend came back from DR and also commented on the mass of hatian living in there... Soon there will be no tierra Dominicana. I don't know why store owners allow them to sell CD's in front of there store like en el supermercado la fuente in Santiago

i hope that goberment ofccial paid more atttention to this haitians inmigrants,we has to see the bigger picture here they are all over the country and nobody is doing nothing to stop it this isgetting way out of hand, it is a pasific invacion thas what this is non less our goberments has to get together before dominican citicens star taking the law in theyre hands.clean punta cana, puerto plata ,santiago, samana , sato dogo , this is very sirius mattar..

Yes, that is true xwill7-I went to the DR a while back accompanied with an anglo-american friend his first time in the DR and with just only a few minutes in the country, soon after arrival, the first words out of his mouth was: "Are we in Haiti or the Dominican Rep?" And this was just a few years ago before the Haitian problem got to the point it is now, so you can imagine how bad it has gotten since then.

The illegals live in the empty homes being built in Santiago... No one boards up the place until its built. They live there until its sold. I do not buy anything from them on the streets... We all have to buy only from Dominican vendors

I think we Dominicans are partly if not mostly to blame for this situation. We complain but employ them, complain but buy their products and do business with them, complain and we rent them property, let them go to our schools to get an education, give them free medical help and health care, let them live as normal and comfortably as conditions permit, but worse of all we let them come in with little to no restriction, allow them to cross the brother without permission to be in our country, but even worse then that, we elect and re-elect a president that does nothing and could give a sh....t about illegal Haitian migration to the DR.

So who can we really blame? You can't put it on the Haitians, they are only doing what any normal human being will do instinctively to survive. That is why you never feed a street cat, once you do it the animal will never leave.

The next president will need to flush the toilet

guillermone,

Precisely my brother!

Josean,

Happy New Year.

I guess a man's death need not worry us then? Yes, indeed keep the pressure on the corrupt party bosses, but don't denigrate a citizen's loss for want of attention on another front. I don't know the full story and so will withhold saying that illegal Haitians were responsible, but still would not justify being so flippant about a fellow human life being lost.

yea Josean i'm a scum, i'm a nazi, i'm a a pedophile, I'M A TRUJILLISTA AND MOST IMPORTANTLY A PATRIOT!!!

like an old quote says " hasta que se unda la isla!!!! " or Until the ship sinks "

Nos jodimos, será mejor que busquemos las franquicias de desodorantes fuertes para vender aquí, porque los azules ya no hay quien los pare.

Here is a quote from an article in Periodico Hoy.

"According to the military authorities and the Directorate of Migration in the north, at least 2,450 Haitians trying to enter the country have been arrested and repatriated to their country this week."
Dated 1/7/2010

To those that claim there is not invasion going on think again.
So the question is if it sound like a duck,Quack like a duck and walks like a duck then it is a DUCK.

HAHAHA! Some of you Dominicans are such hypocrites. How about the Dominican boatpeople who invade other countries?

Where I live in the states, the Dominicans are stereotyped as either housekeepers or welfare recipients who have tons of babies so that can get welfare. And I was always offended by such ignorance, until I realized this shyt goes both ways.

The difference, ranaru, is that the dominican people don't represent a 20% of the population of the US and Spain, the countries with most dominican inmigrants so far, while your people are close to being that percent of the population of my country. The other bloody damned difference is that the DR is not a bloody first world country like the two aforementioned countries, it's as poor a country as the other surrounding Latin american countries. But of course, you don't (and never will) give a damn about it, cuz' after all, it's your class, the affranchi comprador elites, the ones which are profitting the most from Haiti's current socioeconomic mess. Keep it up, buddy, cuz' nations can only take so much oppression in a lifetime, and the TOURISTAH will not always be there to watch your back.

Laurtaro:

You can kick rocks. I never said I agree with the influx of Haitian immigrants going into the Dominican Republic. Actually, I disagree with it. And I believe if your government did what it was supposed to do, the Haitians escaping Haiti would be forced to stay there and the situation would get to the point where something has to be done. In other words, the UN occupiers would have to leave the country and let the Haitians govern themselves.

The problem I have with some on here is the ignorance and hatred towards Haitians, which is akin to the ignorance Hispanics in the US, who are being blamed for just about everything, face by Americans.

You need to take it up with your government, btw. I suppose your people are employing a bunch of self-serving idiots to represent you. Like the US, they like when foreigners come in and do slave work for them. Kinda like how Dominicans come here and do slave work for American corporations or go to Cuba and become slaves to Cuba.

"oupala07, josean, and all haitians includeD i see one of you in my streets i swear to my life that ILL BEAT YOU TO DEATH! !!!!"

The dog look very brave when it is barking at strangers in front of its masters porch. You have no idea how I would like the Dominican army to invade our country so we'd have the opportunity to settle that old hatred once and for all.
Or better, why don't you pay yourself a visit to Montreal, and come after oupala07? If you are serious about your threat and want to put your money where your mouth is, we can arrange a meeting far from where people live and settle our differences. I'll leave to you the choice of weaponry.

Kind of moron and retarded idiot!

If the situation were reversed, and if it were Dominicans escaping to Haiti, I wouldn't be too happy either, especially if the numbers were so large. However, I'm smart enough to understand what's going on and why gov's are failing to secure borders. It's silly to blame the Haitians just like it's silly to blame Hispanics for illegal immigration here in the US. People escape their countries as a last resort; out of pure desperation. And we're all guilty of that, as Dominicans are still escaping their country. But officials allow it for a reason, and it's called cheap labor. They can't directly enslave people anymore, so cheap labor is the only solution.


What I suggest to the Dominican people is that they make illegal immigration a top priority during the next election. I'm sorry but you have to demand more from your leaders, since it's been proven that illegal immigration won't stop. Kinda like how we get alarms to prevent burglars from breaking and entering our homes.

"The difference, ranaru, is that the dominican people don't represent a 20% of the population of the US and Spain, the countries with most dominican inmigrants so far, while your people are close to being that percent of the population of my country"

Well my friend Lautaro, if they represent 20%(?), and I am pretty sure it is much more than that, it is because it is also our island and not exclusively yours . You lost it when your king ceded it to the French and when Toussaint Louverture conquered it on their behalf.
History has shown that disputed territories always go back to their rightful owners when those ones are strong enough to claim and take them back.
China has waited hundreds of years before retaking Tibet. We Haitians can wait a few more hundreds ones before taking the Western side of Haiti back from a bunch of lazy cowards who did nothing to help when we were fighting the french to take it from them.

ateo1992:

Everyone is tough behind a computer. Anyway, since Haitians have invaded your country, why don't you go look for one to beat to death?

There is only one way for you to avert assimilation by the Black majority of this island, and it is either to establish an apartheid system in your country or to perpetrated another genocide like Trujillo did, but this time it would be very different, because today's Haitians won't stay in the sideline and watch their people being slaughtered like sheeps.
For those of your morons fellow citizens who want to be at war with us, just by thinking that we are defenseless, they must understand that when it means family feud between you the Dominicans and us, we won't back down.
I, for an example, will be very happy to see that matter settle once and for all.

But you have to reckon with one little BIG fact: unlike the case of the french, you will not count with the timely aid of compere general yellow fever. And most of all, we're as much native of this island as you are, so we'll be fighting in our turf, not in a foreign land. It's one thing to utter brave words in the tundra, but another different one is putting your money where your mouth is, as I and many other dominicans like me are doing and will continue to do, living in and fighting the good fight earning a living in our land.

Oupala07

When was the last time you went to Haiti?

There shouldn't be a reason why Haitians can't stay in Haiti to better Haiti. The elite wants Haitians and Dominicans to remain at odds so that they can remain in control. It's saddening to see Haitians having to face humiliation because they can't survive in their own country, and they should be able to!

These ignorant Dominicans on here who think they are bad are only following orders, as they're brainwashed by their governments who, by the way, are puppets of the United States imperialist machine. They're as powerless as the anti-immigrant Americans, and their anger is misguided. It should go toward the government and not the powerless Haitians who can easily be put in check.

Lautaro:

I said it before and I'll it again: The Dominican Republic has turned into a personal piggy bank for the US. Thanks to your leaders.

The Dominican flag? Remove that cross and there goes the Haitian flag. Lol!

Oupala07

165 years, 8 months, 1 week, 4 days DR show Haiti that 2/3 of the island belongs to Dominicans and after many more attempts we are still here and many times stronger than the first time so please save your war theme because you won't leave Canada to visit Haiti and help Haitians there and now you want us to believe you actually going to go back if there was a war going. come on you need to grow up and face the reality one of these days.

Let me tell you a common saying that we have here when dealing with big mouthed bravucones: ha ha ha, mira como tiemblo. Idle threats will get you nowhere, it's actions the ones that count. In your case, getting out of your safe place in the tundra and fighting the good fight down here in the island, where it counts.

Lautaro

A better one is "Perro que ladra no muerde"

That's a good one, Belly. To which I may add that the louder the dog barks, the more harmless it is.

You Dominicans are so bad, yet you don't even know what your own government is doing with your country? You don't need to go to war with your country, as your friendly government is already at war with its people.

ranaru said: "The Dominican flag? Remove that cross and there goes the Haitian flag. Lol!"

The haitian flag is the french one without the white band (how racist of you, tsk, tsk), so don't get too cocky, smartypants.

The same thing that your crooks are doing with yours, ranaru. The difference being that our crooks are not that barefaced about their corruption as your thieves are. Do I have to remind you about Gerard Latortue and the other goons?

My friend Belly, I have never set foot to Haiti since I left a very long time ago. The reason why I don't go overthere, is that it would make me a guerilla fighter, and presently, Haitians, even though they would fight if they find leaders, they are not ready for a full scale liberation war. I am just working on the shadow and trying to stir thing up. Because one way or the other, this bunch of ignorant and illitterate blind peasants are not suffering enough in order to uprise. However, believe me if all hell break loose tommorow, I'll be in our mountains with the freedom fighter a week later.

So are you saying the Dominicans flag doesn't have its roots from the Haitian flag?

ranaru asked: "So are you saying the Dominicans flag doesn't have its roots from the Haitian flag?"

No, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't be acting with the flag with that "my cock is bigger than yours" attitude, specially when that flag is also a hand-me down from another oppressor, and a very literal one at that.

My dear, Gerard Latortue is a de facto shithead. He was never elected by the Haitian and was instead installed by the US imperialists.

Dear, I'm not here to trash one. But I'm just warning you against your government who is selling your country to the highest bidder. The imperialist is never your friend, unless you're willing to kiss his ass, so be careful.

Oupala07

So you mean to tell me that you haven't been back to Haiti in a long time and probably are not planning on going back. Now just Imagen that there is only 7,000 Minustah soldiers there and you expect me to believe you will go back once there are 200,000 Dominican trained Soldiers with 286 Generals and plus another 9+ million people willing to protect our land is going to be the hump you need to go back. LMAO now have you ever thought about becoming a comedian or is that your full time job in Canada. You got to be the funniest Haitian on this site. LOL LOL LOL LOL
It's nice to know that you are willing to "fight" a real war but you are afraid of fighting against Haiti's problems like Hunger,AIDS and Education and so on.
There won't be a war but if there ever was I'm sure you will be watching from Canada.

Lautaro -

Actually, I was just mocking the silly war argument between you and oupala07. I really don't give two shits about flags to be honest with you.

ranaru said: "Dear, I'm not here to trash one. But I'm just warning you against your government who is selling your country to the highest bidder. The imperialist is never your friend, unless you're willing to kiss his ass, so be careful."


Do you think that I'm not aware of that? Unlike others around here, you won't find my fingers trembling at the time of calling out western imperialism, specially when it pertains this island. So, as we would say around here: "Busca a otro perro con ese hueso".

" behind a computer your are tough" , true and I'm tougher face to face. wanna come to come to Bonao and see how i torture you all ? you think i'm playing around? You think that i will let my country run down the drain just because you f*** want to come here in a " very peaceful way " yea right peaceful my ass...

ranaru said: "Actually, I was just mocking the silly war argument between you and oupala07. I really don't give two shits about flags to be honest with you."

Then you're a goddamned good actor, mon ami. Have people ever told you this? ;-)

I read the post on EVH and if any of you can or have actually read it comprehensively you will see that he is asking us valid questions. He is asking for us both people on the island to stop this hatred madness we are clinging onto to keep us divided at mind when we should strive for coexistence in cohabiting the island peacefully. Here is the link again folks, I suggest you all take time to carefully read it: http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=183&PID=1943 The very title said: ENOUGH WITH THE HATE & RESENTMENTS! "We Are Not Each Others' Enemies." The main hypothetical question he asked was: "Let us say that the island does not belong to the Haitians, can we the Dominicans say that it surely really does to us also?" He also said that "The Dominican Republic is as much the fruit of former imperial Europeans as the Haitian Republic is. Thus, both Dominicans and Haitians are results of past conquerors and colonizers who have been on the island."

Belly:

I'm really not going to get into this silly dialogue between you two, but Haitians are known to fight with their bare hands.

Not to mention American imperialists, with the biggest defense system in the world, are getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan, as did the Soviets.

Ranaru

I'm really not going to get into this silly dialogue between you two, but Haitians are known to fight with their bare hands.

Well when the fighting was with bare hands and with us with the short end of the stick in 1844 we won and what makes you think Dominicans are going to stand still if it were to happen again. Once again I will say it here Don't confuse a smile with fear because they are two different feelings.Anyways I'm not the one calling for a war. I just think is funny that Haitian actually believe that Dominicans are scare of them.

One thing is for sure, many Dominicans on here want to have only their commented words being posted on these articles and wish to have all poster agreeing with their views alone since they do not have the comprehension of knowing what either a debate is or that not everyone is going to share their views.

So, since they are running out of productive means to argue their cases, they result in voting down harsh views their made up minds cannot present proper sub-arguments for. Please define coward again!

ateo1992:

You need to calm down. BTW, I'm a female. Would you really lay your hands on a female? Oh yeah, it doesn't matter, as long as I'm Haitian, right? :-)

Anyway, don't go and kill anybody because you need to remain free so that you can defend your country from the evil Haitians :-)

Oh, and as I've said before. The Haitians are not who you should be pissed at. Not only are they helpless and desperate, but they don't make the rules. They're just trying to make a dollar instead of making nothing. It's a sad situation, but the fastest solution is to fight your government so that they can do something about the borders. But they're not going to do that because they need slave labor. You have to FORCE them to do it. The DR people are not as brainwashed as Americans, so I think it can be done.

I blame the Haitian government too, but the difference between the Haitian government and the DR government is that the DR government is in a better position to do something.

oupala said: "Because one way or the other, this bunch of ignorant and illitterate blind peasants are not suffering enough in order to uprise."

Well, you got the wrong country here then, buddy, cuz' if I have to take the Black Berry owning, good clothed and all-time smiling ones that I can see walking and riding bikes here in the streets of SDQ as a sample, then this people don't have the slightest reason to rebel at all. Now ask them if they want to go back to Haiti and play soldier if you must, you know the answer you'll get.

Belly which is more brave and a fair fight, bare hands or weapons?

If you were faced with a fighting mob let us say in New York, would you not much rather know that your odds in the fight are the fists of two men battling out, or would you much prefer a gun or knife being pulled out on you?

All this war stuff is stupid if you ask me. If the DR and Haiti get at it, it'll be better for the imperialists who'll just take over, which is what they want to do.

I gotta be honest and say, despite a lot of hate against Haitians by some people on here, I understand why Dominicans are pissed off, but as I've said, the anger is misguided. It should be directed at the Dominican officials and not Haitians. They are the ones who are pocketing all of the money.

Most Dominicans on here are triggered to vote down opinions they cannot debates, argue with or much less present justifications for. Or maybe they do have justifications but are coward enough to not being able to formulate their positions is why they result in voting down posters valid posted comments... So yeah, what is the point of posting comments on these articles again if the expectation is to only see the views you wish to see that are in sync with your beliefs alone?

this is a very simple question and its rational ? DO YOU THINK THAT WE WILL BE BETTER OFF WITH MORE HAITIANS ? NO, DO YOU THINK THAT IN 20 YEARS FROM NOW HAITI AND THE NEW ANNEXED DR-HAITI NATION WILL PROSPER TOGETHER WITH ONE SIDE THATS FULL OF ZOMBIES AND THE OTHER MORE INTELLECTUAL, NOT AT ALL, ITS WORST THAN COMPARING WEST GERMANY WITH EAST GERMANY DIDN'T BLEND AT ALL ECONOMICALLY!!

It's very simple We build a wall to restrict the massive flow, we deport millions of haitians in a period of time , and we continue by our own, we can't be changed " peaceful" that's not acceptable at all!!!

I remember in my first childhood as a kid , i never even heard about haiti until i was like 7, the 90's where a golden year for a child like me, early life is heavenly and fun specially in a beautiful country like DR. It's culture is very different than the other unknown side of the island for me, i didn't even care who was our next door country. Now everywhere you go is haitians begging on the streets and having kids a ton per second, spreading poverty all over the country, in 10 years from now it will be worst, our identity will be less and less. a great darkness will cover our skies of development while the country becomes more poor and haitianized, our memories, present and future hopes will be a thing of the past

ateo1992 is just an ignorant tool. Have fun wallowing in your cocoon of willful stupidity. Thank God there are anti-illegal immigration folks on here who can argue coherently without resorting to ignorance.

Ranaru

I'm going to clear this up for because it sounds to me like you just don't know the situation and are just jumping into the long problem that the illegal immigration is causing. First when the Dominican authorities catch Haitian and deport them almost all get released by the Haitian authorities at the border just because they don't even want to deal with their own people but when something happen in DR to a Haitian that at times have crossed the border 7-10 times illegally and many times the Dominican authorities have deported that same person then many of you come crying out rivers because something happened to him or her in Dominican soil. Just this week Dominican authorities caught 2,450 at the border and deported them but Haitian authorities don't do nothing and just release them as soon and the Dominican authorities leave. Many cesfront have deported the same person twice a week but you never hear that side of the story because you are on the side of the "Haitian Victims

I'll probably be one of the last Dominicans standing to defend the nation from the massive haitian immigration till i die, Juan Pablo, Sanchez y Mella one of my greatest inspirations in life, always heard them in my schools, always thought how great they where for liberating us. The music, the holiday celebrations, the melancholy in this country is amazing. I being aggravated by haitians, i being robbed, i being shown a face of hatred by them , i being insulted indirectly, by them.

ranaru, you calling me ignorant ? I'm just expressing myself, something that haitians can do coherently since they are zombies, no brain or feelings on that coconut elongated head.

ateo1992 said: "ranaru, you calling me ignorant ? I'm just expressing myself, something that haitians can do coherently since they are zombies, no brain or feelings on that coconut elongated head."

Could you please argue with her without using innuendos? The fact that she is a lady should be enough for you to act with some decorum. You're making us look like a horde of barbarous savages. Yo sé que usted es nacionalista hasta la taza, mi hermano, pero bajale algo al tono, por favor. El honor de una dama es algo sagrado, aún cuando esta tenga una opinión contraria a la nuestra.

TanBellaMami:

Technically, the land does not belong to either of us, but we were not asked to be bought over there, plus the indigenous people have been wiped out. Plus America doesn't technically belong to Europeans, they've claimed it for a few centuries now, and that's even when many of the Natives are still alive today.

I guess a lot of Dominicans feel Haitians are heading over to the DR with intentions to reoccupy the country, but Haiti is not even taking care of itself as its supposed to, so such argument is pointless. Plus look who's heading over there.

I personally believe the illegal immigration issue is deliberately allow so that the elite can continue profiting off of cheap/slaver labor.

Dominican posters or those witnessing the exchanged dialogues on here are hypocritically ambiguous as shown their true biases and prejudices of lack of articulation to proper formulate cogent, volid and strong premises for any possible argument they could have or maybe not have which can only be justified as their stances of deep seated hatred they have for Haiti or Haitians.

No matter who they are, given that they can only result in voting down posters opinions and while voting up the ones that they know belong to obviously Dominican posters who share their made-up like mind views alone tells you a lot about their reasoning maturity. That is why most of anything they have to say on here are nothing but laughing jokes for the jesters that they are.

Their only MO's are to hate Haitians at all cost beyond any possible true basis they could have had to promote their respective views which overshadows any of their legitimate claims sadly. Define ignoramus indeed!!!

Lautaro:

Thank you, but maybe he can't help it.

BTW: Ignorance knows know color or nationality.

Si tienes razon Lautaro, :/ esque esta noticia me pone encojonado.

ranaru, sorry for my brutal words i give respect to you as a female.

If haitians start getting all together to form a better nation trst me it will work, specially if they are together they can fight off the government and let the international community do its job. Is incredible on how the U.S goes to Iraq thousands of miles away to supposedly " resolve a problem" but yet they can't come in their own backyard and fix the problems of haiti in a peaceful and smart way. They are just handling haiti to us like if we have the money for it.

Well, Dominicans and Haitians are very much a common people, even though Dominicans have more European blood, so I don't know what the problem is.

Why can't we all just get along. :-)

Anytime, mademoiselle (or madame). It doesn't hurt to be corteous even with the people we disagree with once in a while.

ateo1992:

no problemo. did i say it right? lol.

Actually, the US does not help anybody, just as they're not helping the people in the Middle East or their not helping Haiti, which they are currently occupying via the UN "peacekeepers."

In fact, it is the United States that caused the 2004 coup against Haitian prez Aristide. The rebel leader, his name is Guy Phillip, was trained for many years in Ecuador by the CIA and the US Special forces. He was then funded and led to organize the coup. When Aristide refused to leave, then went in in the middle of the night and kidnapped him and sent him to Jamaica and then Central African Republic and then South Africa.

Despite the smearing of Aristide, the man, under America's yoke, was doing the best he could for the country. He fought to raise the minimum wage until US corps with sweatshops in Haiti rallied against him for supposedly being "bad for business."

They finally decided to remove him after a meeting in Ottawa.

In DR there are two educational institutions really. The one the elite radicals uses to serve as their purpose for hate, and the one every regular mass populace receive at a nationalistic pride level. Understandably, much like any independent countries in Central Caribbean Latin-America... however the like-mind xenophobic protectionism is set to dismiss any legitimate reasoning logic or rational of what the Haitian revolution stood for by allowing the ill acts of one person such as Dessalines to justify their deep held hatred they generally have for Haitians they have become much dependent on for any valid arguments.

Ranaru

The problem with the immigration of Haitian is not the actual people that Dominicans argue is more the quantity.DR has been growing at a very good pace in the last 15 years and the avg Dominican feels like they should see the improvement of such grow but many feel like the illegal immigration of Haitian is taking away from what Dominicans have worked hard for. Many like to point out that Haitian work in the sugarcane fields and Agriculture but that's no longer true because now they are taking many other position like watchman,construction and many others and are doing the job for a 1/4 of the price that it takes for a Dominican to live a decent live.That's what's undermining the whole deal.If you add to that the fact that CESFRONT is actually deporting Haitian left and right yet the Haitian authorities turn around and release them ASAP makes it even worse.I have not problem with Haitian being in DR but at a much lower quantity than what seen like a peaceful invasion.

When have we resulted to this pointless, senseless idiotic "vote down" of the views and opinions of others we do not agree with the minute we cannot formulate proper argumentative rebuttals for even when they carry or have no profane vulgar tones in them?

This right there goes to show the maturity thinking level of most on here. What baffles and saddens me the most is that, prominent educated Dominicans on here do not have the balls to say anything about it. Thus it has rendered any discussion on here moot in terms of deductive disputes.

People on here have defeated the purpose of what open forums are supposed to be like as though they wanted to debate their own selves by having only their views posted. I ask many of you on here, Dominicans or Haitians, why even comment if arguing with yourselves individually was your intents?

The Ottawa Initiative in Haiti was a meeting between the US, France, Canada, Ecuador and some others to discuss so-called regime change in Haiti. Not long after the meeting, the bloodbath in Haiti continued.

Now I'm not saying Haiti's politicians are innocent. But it becomes harder for the Haitians to fight the corrupt leaders" when they're being are being aided by a superpower like the US and other smaller powers like France and even Canada.

I think the best solution is to leave Haiti alone so that the country can govern itself. Corruption alone cannot cause so much damage to a country. It's always an invisible hand - an outside force.. And that force, unfortunately, is the US.


And don't think I don't sympathize with the Dominicans, because I do. I just think some of the hate towards Haitians should be diverted towards the leaders of the DR who pocketing tons of money off illegal immigration.

Haitien debout, l'heure est proche.

Hoodrat like ateo are just [....] If he would say those thing afront of a haitian, they would jump him like a animal.Hope you guys haiti will never have a president like oupala07 or me.

This guys has no class even for ladies what a shame for this 18 years old guy, he should go watch some other things in the net.

Ranaru keep the good job, If the boat of South Africa wasn't late,Guy phillip would be in hell today.

Incognito

The things is Guy philipe is in Haiti today and according to Florida authorities they have a warrant against him for Drug dealing and money laundering yet both Haiti and USA do nothing about which makes you wonder why do they keep this guy in Haiti is he has committed a coup d'tat already why not remove him from Haiti and bring him to justice in Florida. Gets me to wonder in the Haitian gov. wants him around even after all he has done.

Belly:

Do you see the similarities between the DR and America since you've lived in the states also, per your profile?

Illegal immigrants, especially Mexicans, are allowed in the United States because they're willing ot do certain jobs AND their salary is a fraction of what a citizen would be.

It's the same thing with the DR.

So the question is, who exactly do DR citizens target, illegal and powerless Haitians or the government who allows it?

American citizens are always railing against immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, and I always say the same thing to them when I get a chance.

All and all, the anger is misguided. The Haitian government is as much of a culprit, but the DR government can easily implement a solution, but they won't, because the corporations need free labor. Ultimately, it's up to the citizens of the DR to do something about it.

Was this Phillipe chap a lackey of Cedras, or is he an entire new ballplayer in the buccaneer game?

Guy Phillipe was payed by the CIA. He said it my is own mouth.

Ranaru

You can't compare the situation in DR/Haiti with the one of USA/Mexico because first of all in USA the illegals mostly do jobs that most American don't need to do because they posses higher skills that is not a necessary for most to get that low end job. In DR we do a good size of the population that will do the job like they use to before the masses started coming into to drag the salaries down.

Belly,

Guy Phillip was given weapons and allowed to amassed and trained in DR if you must know, sponsored by both DR and US governments.

It is not the Haitian mass populace that want him in Haiti, it is officials who have deemed him unimportant and the implication of so many people they know he can bring down with him if he talks that has made it even impossible for any known influences to go after him. He is a hot button if touched by either sides, both Haitian politicians and foreign influences know not to go there given the deepness of the corruption level of what is at stakes for Haiti and them.

Thus, many are trying to allow bygones being bygones so that a level or a sense of stability grasp footing in Haiti.

Belly, Lautaro:

Guy Phillipe admitted to being a CIA front, and that's why the DEA went after him, lol. They were done using the idiot.


-------------------------------


Belly:

The situation in the DR and the US can be compared in a sense because the end result for both country is cheap labor.But that's my own theory. Feel free to give your own opinion as to why it's allowed.



Governments everywhere don't care about sovereignty. Their job is to get wealthy and obtain power and nothing else. They're like the crooked pastors who abandon their churches and their people after pocketing all of the money. And the globalists are working super hard to promote their so-called "a world without borders" agenda, so that could be another theory. I don't know.

"So the question is, who exactly do DR citizens target, illegal and powerless Haitians or the government who allows it?

All and all, the anger is misguided. The Haitian government is as much of a culprit, but the DR government can easily implement a solution, but they won't, because the corporations need free labor. Ultimately, it's up to the citizens of the DR to do something about it."

That's what I call telling them the trutht in their face, but as denialer as they are, they won't acknowledge those facts.

TanBellaMami:

I was not sure if the DR was at the meeting, but I know Ecuador was and some other South American countries were, except for Haiti. LOL!

All of those politicians are bought and paid for in cash by the US.

Any girl the fact is that lillnel is the worst president we have ever had. Also there is no such thing as a white dominican just look at our kaffa president

If any of you follow DR politics you will come to the sense that's most Dominican disapprove the job Lionel is doing when it comes to illegal immigration into DR. Now what I Think is funny is that you guys are actually trying to help us bash our government and you are not bashing yours for such a horrible job that is has done for so long. Aren't you suppose to be a free country and shouldn't the Haitian problems be solve in Haiti and not allow it to be solve by others as you guys are trying to make it seen here. Did you Haitians give up on Haiti like Oupala07 who claims to love it but haven't taken a trip back ever since he left? What kind of love is that for a country. To me love for my country is representing it well around the world and invest in it as much as possible and helping other Dominicans enjoy it and Teach and help my fellow Dominicans in everything I can. At least that's what I call love for my country.

Belly,

I disagree. There is not a Haitian you will meet that will not tell you that the reason why Haiti is where it is at today is due greatly to lack of government. In fact, Haitians always blame government for Haiti' ills over any other possibilities for Haiti's failure given the welfare-like state of mind most of them have. It has been said on here repeatedly and you know that by having been on http://www.EverythingHaitian.com yourself that Haitians always blame the government in Haiti and its politicians for the ills of Haiti before anything else.

TBMami

Disagreeing with the government in Haiti is not enough and you know this especially when people who are disagreeing with the Haitian Government have not been to Haiti ever since they had a chance of getting out of Haiti. In DR we disagree with the government and actually people take a stance against it in many fronts which i can give you many examples of it if you want. Now we are taking a stance on illegal immigration.Then you have some who want to start a war against DR all the way from Canada like Oupala07. You talk to a lot of Haitians and you can't deny is almost impossible to mobilize them to do anything against the Haitian government period. Most Haitian are in denial that Haiti's problems are mostly caused by Haitians themselves not DR.

Belly:

C'mon on. You're sounding like the Americans here who get all worked up when their government is rightfully criticized. The influx of Haitian immigrants into the DR is what we're discussing here, so that's why the focus is on your government. And the reason L.F isn't doing anything about it is because he's a globalist puppet.

BTW: Haitians are the first ones to bash their government, but to not recognize that invisible hand that plays a role in Haiti politics.

And I've already said that all government, regardless of which country they're from, are only out for the money and power.

Belly:

No one is blaming the DR for Haiti's problems, but if the DR was at the Ottawa initiative then it was. If that's a fact then it's a fact. But that's certainly besides the point.

There is definitely a lack of community amongst Haitians. In fact, the last time I saw Haitians got together and stood up for justice was in the 1990s when the American media claimed informed blood banks not to accept blood from Haitians because Haitians are all infected with AIDS. At that time, a powerful activist, Wilson Daisy, was successful in mobilizing Haitians, but, sadly, he passed.

But I think Haitians have been so bruised that they've literally lost hope, and that's a shame. I've even heard many Haitians saying they wish America would take over Haiti.

BTW: When Preval won in 2005, The US goons in Haiti were trashing votes until the Haitian people took the streets to demand Preval become president. Sadly, Preval has become a US puppet, as they continually threaten him.

Belly:

I'm not making excuses for the Haitian government, but, the fact of the matter is, Haiti is under occupation. More Haitians would have to die to drive them out. The "peacekeepers" have slaughtered many Haitians since they arrived. And they continue to occupy by intimidation. The Haitians have to first drive the occupiers out in order to effectively deal with the government.

Ranaru

C'mon on. You're sounding like the Americans here who get all worked up when their government is rightfully criticized

You must be new here if you think I get worked up when Lionel gets criticized here. LOL that's funny since I have been one of those who has criticized the government of DR not since Lionel has been in power but way before that and I'm referring to the 12 years of Balaguer. Matter of fact I have been in many protest against the work of the government in DR so don't get worked up here and keep on helping me and all Dominicans in letting Lionel know how bad he is doing in this immigration issue in DR. Please don't stop we need more Haitians like you helping us solve the immigration issue.

Belly:

I'm afraid L.F has sold his soul to US and from the looks of it, so has Haiti's president, Preval.


BTW: I am quite new here.

Ranaru

Is funny that you bring up the MINUSTAH issue to the table since I was criticized by many Haitian when on this and other site i posted a article about the 4,000 political killing done in Haiti by USA,France and Canada and about the almost 500,000 Haitian kids sold as slaves for as little as US$20.00 inside Haiti today as we speak. They accused of trying to talk Haiti down when in fact there is documents and video to support it.

Ranaru

I'm afraid L.F has sold his soul to US and from the looks of it, so has Haiti's president, Preval.

Leonel is from the same circle of clowns that Balaguer and other politicians come from in DR. I do admit that he has done a lot for the country but he has let the Dominican people down in so many things that people have lost hope from him. He wanted to be the next Juan Bosch but fail to follow Bosch core values which were Honesty and that nobody is above the laws in place which he never had a problem in making it know whenever the case was there. i.e. He fired his best friend of almost 25 years because he found out he was stealing money and he didn't allow non of his family to work for the gov. because it send a bad message about nepotism by himself.

Actually when is the war against Haiti going to begin?
If the subject was not that serious, some of these comments would just be funny. After reading the article below, some of you who can think strategically would understand why your government would not want to kill the chicken with the golden eggs.

"ESTE AÑO CERRARON EN MAS DE 700 MILLONES DE DOLARES
Las exportaciones dominicanas hacía Haití se proyectan para el año 2012 en US$1,000 millones

SANTO DOMINGO, República Dominicana, 27 de diciembre de 2009.- Las exportaciones dominicanas hacia Haití finalizarán este año por encima de los US$700 millones, convirtiéndose en la segunda plaza comercial más importante para el país, después de los Estados Unidos, y se proyecta que para el 2012 asciendan a US$1,000 millones.
...

... La información la ofreció el director del Centro de Exportación e Inversión de la República Dominicana (CEI-RD), Eddy Martínez Manzueta, quien informó que el país exporta más de 850 productos diferentes a esa nación.
Martínez dijo que ya terminaron el estudio más pormenorizado del mercado haitiano, que darán a conocer a principios de año. En la zona funcionan 13 mercados binacionales distintos días a la semana, mercados que deben humanizarse, pues se deben mejorar las vías de acceso para incrementar el comercio y los gobiernos de ambos lados deben colaborar
Asimismo, trabajan en un censo en los mercados binacionales fronterizo, con croquis, lo que venden, y en qué dirección se mueve, debido a que es un mercado muy informal. Expuso que analizan cómo poder formalizar y humanizar el comercio binacional que se realiza actualmente. Añadió que el mercado haitiano es estratégico para el país, debido a que es el segundo mercado de importancia para RD.
...

Is funny that you bring up the MINUSTAH issue to the table since I was criticized by many Haitian when on this and other site i posted a article about the 4,000 political killing done in Haiti by USA,France and Canada and about the almost 500,000 Haitian kids sold as slaves for as little as US$20.00 inside Haiti today as we speak. They accused of trying to talk Haiti down when in fact there is documents and video to support it.
________________________________

well, they're certainly not stabilizing the country, but you know they always have to use cute euphemism to

And everything you said is correct except for the half a million thing. People who deny these things are not intellectually honest with themselves. Not to mention it's not helping Haiti by denying the issue that exist. but I sincerely doubt it's half a million. There are only 8 million people in Haiti.

...
Martínez dijo que hay que seguir aprovechando lo que son las ventajas naturales que tiene el país de su condición de compartir una misma isla, por lo que exhortó a los dominicanos a mirar más hacia Haití, en término de búsqueda de nuevas oportunidades.
A su juicio, en la medida que se negocie más con Haití se mejoran las condiciones de vida en ese país y al mismo tiempo disminuyen las presiones migratorias, y se van resolviendo muchos problemas que son comunes en ambos países. Manifestó que RD tiene que ser un elemento de apoyo al crecimiento y al desarrollo de las condiciones económicas y sociales en Haití, tal como plantea el presidente Leonel Fernández.
Con relación que Haití firmó el EPA o acuerdo de libre comercio con Europa, Martínez dijo que todavía ese país no ha hecho la notificación formal al país, y por lo tanto hay que esperar para ver las condiciones de su ingreso, pero hay ciertas modificaciones,
...

...
incluso al tratamiento arancelario de parte de Haití a algunos productos dominicanos, que siempre tendrán la ventaja de la logística.
Señaló que por el hecho de que RD es parte del EPA tendrá una ventaja en el tratamiento arancelario con esa nación. Expuso que en la medida que sean más transparentes las transacciones comerciales con Haití, nuevas empresas formales querrán incursionar en ese mercado de ambos lados.
Martínez dijo que hay un movimiento empresarial en el país que procura que se incremente el comercio y las inversiones con Haití, y citó que en marzo habrá un foro binacional en el país y se invitará a personalidades de Washington, Europa y de la región, así como de dominicanos y haitianos para tratar de aprovechar las grandes oportunidades que ofrece el mercado de los dos países para sus ciudadanos.

Brief english translation:
"As far as commerce is concerned, Haiti is the most important country after the USA for DR. For the year 2009, Dominican exports towards Haiti were estimated at more than $700 million and are projected to reach $1.0 billion in 2012."

That seems to me a very good deal for DR. As many of you suggested repeatedly on this site, I agree totally with you that a wall should be built on the Haiti - Dr frontiers to make sure that the dominican products can remain in DR.

Here we are in 2010, some of you cannot come with anything better than this anachronistic idea!

gdigosse

Most of those 700 million dollar goes into the agriculture business which the state only gets a portion of it. Some where around $140,000,000 yearly. Now let me give you some numbers DR has a economy of US$77 billion and 6% goes into the free health care provided to the public and according to health department in DR Haitian patients make up 39% of the health bill for the country now add that up. Second point remittances from DR into Haiti in the 2000 census was US$314,000,000.00(Today maybe around $450,000,000) of Haiti US$11 billion economy. Construction in DR has gone up since 2000 by 57% while every year Dominican construction workers have been on the decline due to loosing their job to a lower salary employee now add that to the bill of job lost by the state. Plus all the beautiful comments and documentary against the image of DR that goes around and a wall even thought I don't agree with it doesn't sound so bad after all don't you think? I'll give you time to digest i

gdigosse

So be careful the kind of ideas you think will or won't be good for DR because you may be in for a big surprise in your wishes smarty pants.

Belly,

I don't know if there is anything I need to digest.

I agree with you. Let's build the tallest wall we can. These comments are not from me. They are from a dominican official of the name Eddy Martínez Manzueta, director del Centro de Exportación e Inversión de la República Dominicana (CEI-RD). Consult him, send him letters to build a wall. That will force the haitian government to face its responsibilities.

By the way, do you have the figures about the haitian investment in DR and the monthly stipends sent by haitian parents to their university students in DR? You never talked about the haitian millionaires living in DR. I don't believe it's a one-way street.

Belly,

where does the "smarty pants" comment come from?

I read a bunch of comments tonight about war against Haiti. I responded with a newspaper article from DR talking about the magnitude of the haitian market for DR by one of your officials with numbers to support his comments and you call me "smarty pants". You can do better than that.

Read all of my comments. I never used bad language or any derogatory remarks against any of you guys. Please in the future let's have a civil exchange of ideas.

"Read all of my comments. I never used bad language or any derogatory remarks against any of you guys. Please in the future let's have a civil exchange of ideas."

Don't waste your time on this my friend. Some Doms here are good people. However, they can't bear the pressure of being able to desagree with the hatemongers: they fear to be ostracized and/or lambasted.

I, myself, am tired to show respect to a bunch of herdmen whose favourite pass time is to varlop and denigrate our country and people. And what is more frustrating, whenever you catch them pants down, they are quick to label you racist. It's like talking to an very ugly and hideous individual who is afraid to look at him/herself in a mirror.

Ranaru,

My name is AfroLatino, I am using my girl's account to post on here... Anyway, I have to say that you are very knowledgeable on the situation of Haiti indeed that I agree 95% with most of what you said...

READ THIS: http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=613&PID=1825

Let me k now what you think about it.

Godamn!!!! 125 comments. C'mon people it is just a murder case. Don't act like Godzilla is comin to town. They will arrest, prosecute and deport as simple as that. Y’all need to worry more about some mother*ckers who might blow up your asses on a plane, coz dat’s what’s up nowadays. Sitting there making a whole bunch of stupid comments over two small third world countries. Don’t y’all get any shame? Chill out motherf*ckers!!!

The other day a mother*cker was scanning my d*ck all over the goddamn Heatrow airport, talking about we are looking for suspicious items sir. I said what. Where? In my d*ck? Niggah please, u better move that nasty scanner of yours before somebody get hurt.

Too much energy into this, guys; life continues......
GOD is GOD the rest is nothing...
VIVA LA REP. DOMINICANA..
May GOD bless Haiti.

Too much energy into this, guys; life continues......
GOD is GOD the rest is nothing...
VIVA LA REP. DOMINICANA..
May GOD bless Haiti.

gdigose

The reason I called you a smarty pants is because this same article has been brought up by some people here trying to intimidate DR into believe we won't survive if for some reason the ties are cut with Haiti that's why i gave you the numbers so you can you at them your self so you can understand the full picture and not think that we should pull our pants down because there is a US$700 million dollar trade between the border. So if that is what you were trying to prove let me be the first one to tell you no we won't fall flat in that happens and it will be the other way around if anything so check and understand the comments made here by me before going after me for no reason.

I AM BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Written by: josean, 7 Jan 2010 3:49 PM
From: United States
Nothing like a Haitian Story to divert attention from how the NARCO STATE is going to hell in hand basket!

Written by: ranaru, 7 Jan 2010 3:53 PM
From: United States
Of course it's the Haitians. It's always the Haitians. Blame it on the Haitians.

Like the phoenix we rise from the ashes!

Written by: josean, 7 Jan 2010 6:47 PM
From: United States
It's kind of light above just in case:

LIE-onel Fernandez has allowed a NARCO BORICUA to almost bring down his government and you guys are foaming at the keyboard about the usual “divert the attention from real issue at hand always convenient” Haitian Boogeyman!

We Dominicans are so simpleminded and gullible!
Written by: josean, 7 Jan 2010 6:37 PM
From: United States
The intolerance of people here is so Trujillista that they resort to censorship.

Remember censors are the lowest scum of the earth second only to pedophiles!

gdigose

Nobody is here saying Haitian should not come into DR. All we are asking is to do it in the legal manner and at a reasonable numbers because once they cross the border illegally they are putting them selves in the good will on DR business man and they are getting abused by such low salaries and are dragging down the salaries of others Dominican who could have been working there too. Haiti and Haitian need to understand that DR is not their babysitter and if they want to be a nation that is respected then it must start actin like it and take their part in their own responsibility IN their own land not somebody else's.DR has carried Haiti's problems for way too long and is now time for Haiti to start acting like grown ups and stop the blaming DR for their own problems.

gdigose

"By the way, do you have the figures about the haitian investment in DR and the monthly stipends sent by haitian parents to their university students in DR? You never talked about the haitian millionaires living in DR. I don't believe it's a one-way street."

Well if you follow DR politics then you should know that DR is now offering free education to ALL Haitian kids regardless of their legal status so if you do the math of the some 2% of Haitians that are actually paying for college and how much of that goes in tax form to the state and compare it with the possible 98% of Haitian kids in DR left that could go to school for free and getting a free lunch at school and once again that's another surprise that you could be in to find out. By the way don't so sensitive "smarty pants" LOL relax take a joke in as it was a joke!

My friend Belly,

You should archive from time to time what is said on this blog by your fellow countrymen, because as the old saying states: " when all the speech is gone, there still be the writing left." Therefore, let me see if I can help you debunk the twisted truth in your rhetoric.



"Nobody is here saying Haitian should not come into DR."

Why then your hatemongering fellow keep talking foolishly about erecting a wall at the border?

" All we are asking is to do it in the legal manner and at a reasonable numbers because once they cross the border illegally they are putting them selves in the good will on DR business man"

If your government wanted to regularize the border crossing, it would have done the way I suggested by building seven state of the art border checkpoints, link them with a well paved road; build a police station a few kms from each checkpoint, and established a half brigade of border rangers whose mission would be to make sure that nothing

goes through without their permission. Then you can spice all of that with a fleet of a few helicopters which will much more efficient at detecting and hunt down any illegal activities in the border area.
Furthermore, after putting in place all that infrastructure and logistic, your government should be dead serious about hunting down and prosecute the mafiosi who are profiting from the illegal migrants trade, and I mean by that the passers who are coercing the peasants to flock to your country and the businessmen who hire them.

Therefore, and as I will always keep telling you, you have no solid ground to complain about Haitians invading your country since it is encouraged by your own economic and political elites.

Oupala

"Why then your hatemongering fellow keep talking foolishly about erecting a wall at the border?"

When I say here I mean in DR and by the way if you didn't know this is the internet people can say and wish all they want that doesn't mean it will translate into a law in DR so relax Dominican Laws are not written in DominicanToday.com we have functioning government for that.

"If your government wanted to regularize the border crossing, it would have done the way I suggested by building seven state of the art border checkpoints, link them with a well paved road; build a police station a few kms from each checkpoint, and established a half brigade of border rangers whose mission would be to make sure that nothing."

If you read my earlier comment I clearly said that CESFRONT just this week caught 2,450 trying to cross the border ILLEGALLY into DR and got deported but since your NON-FUNCTIONING government always spec DR to pick their tab and do our job and half of their's.

The NON-FUNCTIONING Haitian authorities release them deported one as soon as the CESFRONT officers leave their site because not even Haitian authorities want to deal with their OWN people. I don't know to how to explain this to you. Then when something happens to an illegal immigrant that at time have been deported 10 times then you and others come in here CRYING rivers of the actions because the innocent Haitian Victim of THEIR own NON-FUNCTIONING government. Haitians are victims of their own NON-FUNCTIONING government but that's not something that you and others who left Haiti and haven't bother to go back care about because in reality it will take some guts to go and fix the problems in Haiti something that Haitian outside with the powers to do it simply don't posses.

Oupala

"Therefore, and as I will always keep telling you, you have no solid ground to complain about Haitians invading your country since it is encouraged by your own economic and political elites."

If Haiti and Haitian want to be respected as a free nation then it must start acting like one and do as they expect from others to do. It's funny that you think only DR should protect it's border and when and where does Haiti the wannabe respected nation comes into play and put their own people and protection at the border against drug dealers and all sort of things that happen on the Haitian border side that you probably never get to hear about in Canada. Respect as a FREE NATION comes with a responsibility to be able to responds to it's citizen or as I like to put it to you "RESPECT IS SOMETHING THAT IT"S EARNED NOT GIVEN FOR FREE."

"but since your NON-FUNCTIONING government always spec DR to pick their tab and do our job and half of their's. "

Well, if we have a non functionning government, we can say thanks to you. Who sheltered, armed and give free passage to the so called rebels forces that helped overthrow Aristide? What the hell do you want us to do with our limited resources? We can't put people to jail just because they've been deported. You are the rich kids in the block, therefore, it is your responsibility to take appropriate measures in order to protect your borders from illegal immigrants.

If we are near to be a failed state you know very well who's responsible. Who lately was demonizing our country and keep asking for our disappearance as a free and independant one? Wasn't it your own President when he went to beg his Europeans bosses for money. As I said, honest people always humbly recognize their wrong doings, but not the denialers.

Oupala

Anybody listening to you a Haitian who left Haiti and haven't bother to go back talking like you represent a majority of Haitians views but let me be the one to give you a reality check since you haven't had one since you left Haiti about the situation. Haitians in DR are very happy to be there in fact most will tell you that if they had a chance to denounce their Haitian citizenship and get a Dominican one and never go back to Haiti I can assure you that almost 95% of the ones inside DR would NOT even think for a second about taking it. Most of them in DR will tell you that in DR they have 100s of more of a chance at surviving than in Haiti. Another thing don't believe everything you see on the media and so call "documentaries" because they are misguiding you in your assessment of what life is like for a Haitian in DR. One more point if you say you love Haiti so much why not take a trip back show that love in real life instead of a web comment or e-love for Haiti.

" Haitians in DR are very happy to be there in fact most will tell you that if they had a chance to denounce their Haitian citizenship and get a Dominican one and never go back to Haiti I can assure you that almost 95% of the ones inside DR would NOT even think for a second about taking it."

My friend Belly,

Did you sniffed some traces of cocaine before writings your comments. You'll excuse me because so far none has made any sense. If the Haitians were so happy to stay in the Dominican Republic, why the Hell they flock back to our country during Chrismas and year end festivities? No, they're there because they can't have back home what your country is offering them, but make no mistake about it they are very attached to their country and people. Why do you think that they are still speaking Haitian Creole in Cuba after more than 70 years of isolation from their mainland?

Keep fooling yourself my friend, I am pretty sure that one day you'll be sober.

"Another thing don't believe everything you see on the media and so call "documentaries" because they are misguiding you in your assessment of what life is like for a Haitian in DR"

LOL LOL LOL That kind of comment comes directly from someone who doesn't understand how to gather, aknowledge and digest information. Are you sure to be all that you told me you are?

Oupala

If the Haitians were so happy to stay in the Dominican Republic, why the Hell they flock back to our country during Chrismas and year end festivities?

Are you referring to the 20,000 out of the 2+ million that live in the country? well then those are the 5% left out of the other equation. Just because they are not afraid to back home like YOU are doesn't mean they love it. At least they got some love left for Haiti unlike you my friend who left and have never bothered to LOOK back at your motherland which exactly proves my point. If you love Haiti so much WHY are you so afraid to go back home at least visit you compatriots and show some real love. And no I don't do cocaine,drugs or drink so you got the wrong guy here but based on you quick trick of the bag I'm starting to wonder if you are a user of it since you couldn't find anything else on your brain out of all of the vocabulary that exist in the English language.

Oupala07

LOL LOL LOL That kind of comment comes directly from someone who doesn't understand how to gather, aknowledge and digest information. Are you sure to be all that you told me you are?

Like I said before once you decide to man up and take a trip back home and get real information and see for yourself then we can keep the conversation going otherwise keep reading wikipedia and ABC and Fox News and think you know what's happening in the island you are so afraid to take a plane to visit.

Belly said:
"The reason I called you a smarty pants is because this same article has been brought up by some people here trying to intimidate DR into believe we won't survive if for some reason the ties are cut with Haiti that's why i gave you the numbers so you can you at them your self so you can understand the full picture and not think that we should pull our pants down because there is a US$700 million dollar trade between the border. "

See my comment below.

Belly,

I am sorry. I don’t read every comment or every article that appeared on that site.

My point was very simple. It was to highlight that DR is the primary beneficiary of the instability in Haiti for more than 20 years now. Due to economy of scale, the operations in DR have grown to include not only the DR market, but also the Haitian market. You seem deliberately to underestimate the impact of this increased Aggregate Demand on your economy and the beneficial multiplier effect on the society as a whole. Those are concepts probably that are quite familiar to Mr Martinez Manzueta of CEI-RD.

Belly you are saying that we can do anything outside of our country ? The Iranian Revolution was started by the Ayatatolah who was in France...

Belly:


I'm sorry to tell you, but your government is as non-functioning as the Haitian government. If they were functioning, they would have done something about the illegal immigration to the country.

And not to mention the Dominican boat-people who are leaving to be slaves of Cuba and America (PR).


Your government is as corrupt and inefficient, and they've turn the DR into America's personal piggy bank with these so-called free trade deals.

Incognito

Belly you are saying that we can do anything outside of our country ?

When you got folks like Oupala07 who "E-LOVES" Haiti talking like he is about to be the next toussaint louverture and taking over the island all the way from Canada when the same guy is afraid of living the comfort of their home in Canada to visit his family at least back in Haiti then compare with the guy who started the Iranian Revolution and how that person ended up in France you make your own judgement about it. Haiti's problem cannot be solve by showing E-LOVE to Haiti from a first world country. It takes a lot more than that my lovely friend a hell lot more than that. By the way his same situation about not visiting is repeated by a large amount of Haitian ex-pats who haven't even consider stepping back into Haiti ever since they had a chance to get out.

Belly,

I don’t come here to make superficial comments about DR or to make personal attacks on Dominicans. My time is too valuable for me to engage all of you in the kind of repeated vociferous ad hominem attacks on Haiti, Haitians or anything that is Haitian-related.

In light of the visceral hatred expressed by many of your compatriots, your legitimate complaints are lost in the cacophony of these various voices and can't be addressed effectively.

Ranaru

I'm sorry to tell you, but your government is as non-functioning as the Haitian government. If they were functioning, they would have done something about the illegal immigration to the country.

If you read my earlier comment i clearly said the CESFRONT a government leg in the fight against illegal immigration deported 2,450 just THIS week my friend and the Haitian authorities release them as soon as our officials leave the site so they can try to cross the border again to be caught again by the same CESFRONT officer. Now don't get me wrong the gov. in DR is corrupt and ineffective but I would have no doubt of picking Leonel and our officials over the ones Haiti has had ever since their independence at any given time.

Ranaru,

My name is AfroLatino, I am using my girl's account to post on here... Anyway, I have to say that you are very knowledgeable on the situation of Haiti indeed that I agree 95% with most of what you said...

READ THIS: http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=613&PID=1825

Let me k now what you think about it.


__________________________________-

TanBellaMami:

I would love to read the page you're directing me to, but it says "bad request."

I plan to move to Haiti to work as a community organizer after I finish my degree here in the US.


Those American organization who think giving Haitians a plate of food are only helping to keep the country poor. If they really want to help Haiti, they can mobilize to bring in end to the foreign occupiers.



Haitians should not rely on the government. Haitians need to wake up and realize they need to do shit on their own.

gdigosse

In light of the visceral hatred expressed by many of your compatriots, your legitimate complaints are lost in the cacophony of these various voices and can't be addressed effectively.

Thank you but remember that Dominican Laws are not made on DominicanToday.com and this is the internet so nobody has control on what people say which at many times is just talk no actions. You will have to learn to drive to this muddy site to have a decent conversation LOL welcome to the jungle. LOL

Ranaru

Haitians should not rely on the government. Haitians need to wake up and realize they need to do shit on their own.

Wow a sight of relief and common sense all the way show here ranaru. That's the message I have been trying to deliver to Haitian who seen to be confuse. Just like the problems in DR belong to Dominican and now illegal immigration has become a problem and we are here addressing it by putting light on the subject. Nice to see you can see what many Haitian have failed to see for so long.

Belly:


That's just like the American officials turning back Mexicans when they try to cross the borders to come to the United States. It's all a front to try and seem like they're doing something. Your government is as corrupt. It is the DR government that allows them to enter the country to perform cheap labor.

What did you want the Haitian government to do, by the way?


And to say you'd rather take one corrupt government over another is simply irresponsible. it simply means you'd rather take the "lesser of the two evils," which is something the American people do every 4 years. And today 49 million of Americans are going hungry, foreclosure signs are on every lawn, and millions of Americans are jobless.


Your government plays a role in the destabilization of Haiti by aligning with the US to overthrow democratically elected presidents. And the DR people have the upper-hand by holding your government's responsible since you are in a better position than Haitians.

"My point was very simple. It was to highlight that DR is the primary beneficiary of the instability in Haiti for more than 20 years now..."

I beg to differ. The instability in Haiti is not beneficial to DR; quite the contrary, as this instability does not promote the well being and market development of Haiti and its close to 10 million people. Don't confuse the advantages that some individuals or groups gain from the far greater loss of the general population. Both nations are losers if Haiti remains stagnant and does not develop the talents of its people. Again, the aggregate demand, if Haiti were to gain economic dynamism, of both nations would generate enormous potential benefits for all. So your point is
not valid.

Ranaru

And to say you'd rather take one corrupt government over another is simply irresponsible. it simply means you'd rather take the "lesser of the two evils," which is something the American people do every 4 years. And today 49 million of Americans are going hungry, foreclosure signs are on every lawn, and millions of Americans are jobless.

I get your point but I wish Haitian had the same expectation and show it more than just with e-love on the web for their own government. DR with all of it's problem in the government have been able to grow every year at a steady pace and living in DR has improve and I know that for a fact.The thing I find funny is that you are trying to imply that Haiti's has no responsibility in protecting the border on their side which by the way every nation does. So raising the bar of expectation for DR by Haitian and Haitian Having NO expectation from their own government in Haiti is kind of weird don you think?

this is coming from a boricua casado con una cibaena. my dominican brothers- why do you respond to these haitian provocateurs! ignore those RASTREROS & address the issues. sparing with haitians only gives them perverse satisfaction.

Belly:

I know Haiti is responsible as well. My point is that Haitians are escaping to the DR and not the other way around, so it is the DR that is being effected by the mass migration of undocumented Haitians, and it is the DR people who are railing against illegal immigration. And , of course, the financial advantage you guys have over Haiti.

And I'm glad the DR's economy s doing good compared to past years, but I do warn against the reasons for this boom which is tourism and "free trade," which sorta make things artificial in a way because the DR relies too heavily on the United States.


Not to mention "trade agreements" like DR-CAFTA which is nothing but corporations' free access to cheap labor. And in regards to tourism, look at places like Jamaica that spent years masking the country's social and economic problems with "Come to Jamaica" commercials. Jamaica is not the murder capital of the world. The rich got richer and the poor, well, you know.

eltinaje01:

i think my dominican brothers and sisters on here would agree that it's better to have intelligent conversations, even if we never agree, then to sit around and call other people names, as name-calling is for the childish and uncivilized. and since you come on here to do just that, you, my friend, is a RASTRERO.


and pardon me while i get out of character, but last I checked, haiti was not a US colony, so, perhaps you should focus on your country's independence than worrying about haitians.

PEACE

Ranaru

Can you name me a country that is naturally beautiful and doesn't put money into it's tourism to it's advantage. By the way tourism just showed up in DR not long ago we have mostly always been a Agriculture country which by the way has been growing very fast around the country. Nothing wrong with being a tourist place and use that money for infrastructure projects and many other needs of the country.So don't believe that DR is only concentrating in tourism there are many other things happening pay by the growth in tourism. Jamaica didn't just become what it is today because tourism went down by the way it always have been a know fact for a long time.Did you know that between the ages of 12-24 the literacy rate is now seating at 98% in DR and is expected to hit 91% as a whole country so don't believe we are seating back waiting for tourist to show up my friend. As a fact the gov is running free trade school in the labor department to train people to become electrician and othe

cont..

DR is running programs to train the youth into many other fields for free provided by the state. So don't think people in DR are seating back and not getting into other fields than tourism. We have many problem but don't ever think we are seating in the sidelines waiting for some magical thing to happen.

Belly:


All I'm saying is that tourism is a very shaky and unpredictable industry, and last I checked, it was the number one money earner for the DR, which is why I bought it up.

My point is that I wish all of these minority countries would work to free themselves from America's yoke, which is why I'm not a huge fan of relying on tourism, because it usually means the West owns all the resorts and the respective governments get about 5 bucks per tourist, and the citizens get to work as security guards and housekeepers.

The literacy rate is great. The more educated a society, the more equipped they are to resist, as long as they don't rely on the government for everything.

Ranaru

All I'm saying is that tourism is a very shaky and unpredictable industry, and last I checked, it was the number one money earner for the DR, which is why I bought it up.

People know this in DR too. i.e. In Miches,D.R. people got together and asked the DR government to find a alternative way for them be promote their part of their tourist area without having to sell it to investors so the business stay local and guess what they did listened and are conducting surveys to give them alternative business to tourism in this beach side town. DR-Cafta has been good for DR because one way or another you have to put people to work in order to improve and move up. Tourism in DR has grown on it's own pretty much most Dominican invest in small business and agriculture.

Ranaru,

TRY THIS ONE: http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=613&PID=1980

Belly,

I do not care what others say, you are a well knowledgeable guy. I can see why you and Afro seem to be great deductive debaters. I used to think Lautaro was pretty savvy until I realize as much as savvy that he is, he still contributes from time to times to the rhetoric of most fringed pundits on here... I mean, he has had great premises, don't get me wrong!

Let me know what you think of this guy Jean Charles' plan for Haiti http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=613&PID=1979

I read the post on EVH and if any of you can or have actually read it comprehensively you will see that he is asking us valid questions. He is asking for us both people on the island to stop this hatred madness we are clinging onto to keep us divided at mind when we should strive for coexistence in cohabiting the island peacefully. Here is the link again folks, I suggest you all take time to carefully read it: http://www.everythinghaitian.com/....gDetail.aspx?BID=183&PID=1943 The very title said: ENOUGH WITH THE HATE & RESENTMENTS! "We Are Not Each Others' Enemies." The main hypothetical question he asked was: "Let us say that the island does not belong to the Haitians, can we the Dominicans say that it surely really does to us also?" He also said that "The Dominican Republic is as much the fruit of former imperial Europeans as the Haitian Republic is. Thus, both Dominicans and Haitians are results of past conquerors and colonizers who have been on the island."

"He is asking for us both people on the island to stop this hatred madness we are clinging onto to keep us divided at mind when we should strive for coexistence in cohabiting the island peacefully." I don't believe a word of it. That is a bunch of BULL CRAP!!!!

Wrong...the only people that have hate inside their veins against whites and mulatoes are the black Haitians. So tell this dude to get his facts straight. Haitians don't want to co-exist they want to take over. It did not work militarily in the past, so now they are taking a more subtle approach with the help and support of the international community. Past performance is a good indicator of future results, remember that about Haiti.

oupala finally removes the mask by saying "My friend Belly, I have never set foot to Haiti"

their is nothing more to say!!!!

guillermone:

Are you serious? If so, then my heart bleeds for you, guillermone.

Your government and the Dominican elite are profiting greatly off the Haitians in your country that do slave work. Why pay a Dominican 5 bucks when they can pay a Haitian illegal 1 bucks? This is the same thing in the United States.

You, like the Americans who blame the Hispanics for "stealing their jobs," need to wake up to reality.


Your government also helped the US throw Aristide out.


Get real.

Belly:

I suggest you do some independent research on DR-CAFTA to see if it's really good for the DR.


DR-CAFTA = the beginning of the end of DR sovereignty.


Do not be fooled by the globalist agenda.

saludos a mi hermanos dominicanos! i have noticed that this web-site has turned into a sounding board for haitians to expound their political views on the situation of their brethren in the RD. in their view the RD, because of the massive haitian immigration, the island will be completely haitianized. they believe this will result in the aleviation of the chronic poverty and associated problems that have always been a problem to their people. the haitianos that have subverted this website and support their "megali idea" reach back into past historical events or attack the the DOM. goverment and private sector as the culprits in this worsening problem. do not let witty or cute comments of your foes undermine your arguments. i have observed the pattern of the haitians that leave their comments here. they live in relative comfort in canada, flatbush, miami & perhaps live in the RD as well & talk out of the side of their mouth.

Atabey,

I partially agree with you, more specifically with your last comment.

However you cannot ignore or minimize the substantial increase of exports from DR to Haiti in the past 20 years. Before the worldwide embargo on Haiti in the nineties, the DR export to Haiti was nil. By 2012, it is projected to reach $1 billion. According to your own officials, Haiti represents today the second most important market for DR export behind the US,

I agree with you in the sense that the faster Haiti can get on her two feet, the greater the economic gains can be for both sides. As I wrote many times on this site, it does not have to be a zero sum gain. There is so much potential on the island and in the diaspora (both Haitian and Dominican). Yet we are putting all of our focus on the tree instead of the broader forest. In the next few years, there will be a cataclysmic change in the Caribbean after the death of Fidel in Cuba. I may be wrong, but DR may be the first casualty.

Ranaru

DR-CAFTA = the beginning of the end of DR sovereignty.

Could you explain how you came to that conclusion. Since regular people from USA were the ones opposed to this deal. The only reason that this passed the senate in USA it was because lobbying and heavy pressure by Bush. If anything this a blow for American since most of their low paying jobs will shipped out to lower salary countries.All DR-CAFTA companies are not allow to sell their product locally so they don't represent a treat to local market infarct it opens the door to sale our goods easier into the bigger market(USA).I would really like you to explain how DR-CAFTA is nothing good for DR specific. Remember we have a lot of people who posses little or no skills and need to be put to work in the short-term and this is one way to do.

Belly:

Americans were not the only ones rallying against DR-CAFTA. Many others from Latin America were and still are against it, mainly because they know it's the beginning to the end of sovereignty not to mention the fact that it stifles competition, especially with small farmers in those countries.


He who controls the economy controls the country and its people. DR-CAFTA or any other so-called free trade agreements are nothing but slavery 2.0. It's modern day subjugation, that's all.. The transnational corporations need access to cheap labor, and the American people have become too sophisticated for them, so they go elsewhere, as the wolves in sheep's clothing that they are, and dress it up and call it "free trade."

DR-CAFTA will and has already created cycle of dependency on Western corporations who will control just about ever country that participates in so-called free trade.

I beg to differ ranaru,

If so many countries such as South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, China, etc., would still be desperately poor and basket-cases. Instead, via greater integration into the so-called "free-trade slave system" they have modernized and become objects of imitation and guidance today. No system is free of problems, but the Post WWII trade system has many positives.

For small nations like the DR there really is no alternative or TINA as Thatcher is quoted as having said. Unlike larger economies with their built-in scales of production, small nations like the DR must tag on to larger scale economies in order to develop their economies. While NAFTA-DR is not ideal, it is far better than the alternative. The legacy of failed attempts at modernity has contributed to our current plight. However, failure in the past should not curtail efforts to secure our future. In this I have hopes that Haiti will prosper and become a greater magnet for DR's output and vice-versa.

Atabey:

So what you're saying that it's better to become an IMF whore and allow the Western imperialists to control your economy and country than to seek alternative ways to preserve your sovereignty? The thing is many other countries are feeding themselves without being debt slaves of the IMF.

There's no such thing as failure of modernity unless you believe your people cannot advance without being controlled by the imperialists.

I believe Haiti and the Haitian people will prevail without being whores of the imperialists. In fact, the country is in this state because of its refusal to become whores.

Here's a NIcauraguan farmer on DR-CAFTA. Believe me, it's all about control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kvJeN5MmKM

Here's another one regarding how the globalists is screwing over Jamaica:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIJPwfsbqg