Too close for anonymous passenger's confort.
Santo Domingo.- A passenger aboard an inbound Jet Blue flight to the Las Americas International Airport a few days ago was able to photograph what the flight crew and pilot on board say they didn’t see.
Of the flight’s 200 passengers the only witness to the harrowing view said the flight crew or the other travelers didn’t see what he had caught on film, and supports the allegations of the National Pilots Association (ANP) of the “hair raising” Dominican airspace.
The source was willing to provide the information and a photo to DT on the condition of not using their name. “On a JetBlue flight from New York in late June while descending from 37,000 feet I was looking out the window and I saw another airline jet no more than 3,000 feet below and to the left of us. I was able to take a few pictures and after landing I asked the crew if they saw the plane and they said no.”
Early last week the air lines which operate in the Dominican Republic called the denunciation by the ANP of an unsafe and “hair raising” airspace irresponsible, since the details of alleged “close calls” stem from a Dominican Civil Aviation Institute (IDAC) report, obtained by third parties.
Written by: ateo2010 
, 22 Jun 2010 3:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Owning Noobs
nice photo of the plane's shadow. [sarcasm]
From: Dominican Republic
Trick photography. This is the DR and there are no ¨hair raising¨ near misses here. lol
Written by: ElProfe , 22 Jun 2010 3:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Jarabacoa
B.S. That was done with photoshop. Somebody thinks its funny to play pranks on a major airline.
Jet Blue should sue the joker that brought this to DT and DT for publishing it.
Then Jet Blue will have the last laugh.
Written by: THINK, 22 Jun 2010 3:58 PM
From: United States, SDQ -- Mia --NY
I just don't understand what good of the "RADAR" is? The radar in Jet Blue and the radar for "Air Control Tower" in Las Americas.....?
Written by: xwill7, 22 Jun 2010 4:05 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
I thought that all electronics have to be turned off during take off and landing?
Written by: xwill7, 22 Jun 2010 4:06 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
Looks like a shadow to me...
From: United States
First of all if that's another plane, it is far enough for any accident to occure. Although the image does not look real from that angle. And if that's the case that Dominican Airspace is so congested and so dangerous, than purchase a radar for Las Americas. Also don't planes come equiped with airtracking devices also. So they are also aware of their own airspace as well.
Written by: ateo2010 , 22 Jun 2010 4:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Owning Noobs
X, yea it might be a shadow, as you can see the sun's light is coming from the plane's 1-2 o'clock, a formula for a perfect reflection on those clouds beneath.
Written by: xwill7, 22 Jun 2010 4:46 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
I have seen planes that far here in the US... I think that this might be someone that might want to scare people away from DR... Also, this person should be fined for turning on electronic equipment during landing
Written by: lovingit, 22 Jun 2010 4:47 PM
From: United States, Delaware
snoopyy3k,
I agree, the plane does seem to be far enough. Also planes ARE equipped with their own radar system. For everyone here, check out Warning Systems on this link:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/safety/whatmakes.html#fourI once heard that if two commercial planes where flying towards each other, and their radar didn't detect each other till they are as close as a mile apart, the pilots have no more than 6 seconds or so to make an adjustment. But again, that is towards each other on a direct line.
Texas, you seemed to be a plance afficionado from other posts.. if you are around, could you shed some light?
Written by: xwill7, 22 Jun 2010 4:47 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
ateo,
that is a shadow or photoshop work
From: Dominican Republic
Quoted..." I was looking out the window and I saw another airline jet no more than 3,000 feet below and to the left of us".
Hmmm that plane is to the right!
Get your story straight!
From: Dominican Republic
from Canada's NavCan....
.NAV CANADA today announced the expansion of Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM) to Canadian Southern Domestic airspace. Effective January 20 at 4:01 am EST, minimum vertical separation between Flight Level (FL) 290 and FL 410 inclusive will be reduced from 2000 to 1000 feet.
so....3000 feet....what is the issue.....????
Written by: Amber, 22 Jun 2010 5:11 PM
From: United States
Why is this news? I have in many occasions seen planes fly by pretty close to mine, but obviously at different altitudes. So, what's the big deal? By looking at this picture, I don't see that there was a chance of collision. How do we also know that this picture was taken over Domincan air space?
Haven't we seen a few ones circling an airport at the same time, while waiting for clearance to land?
I know that this might be a crazy analogy, but when we are on a two-lane road and incoming vehicles are no more than 5 feet from your car, is that considered a near collision?
Written by: telemeco, 22 Jun 2010 5:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
holly shit,,,,,Tourist now fly in formation to santo domingo
Written by: xwill7, 22 Jun 2010 5:27 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
This tourist must not like DR or jetblue... This is nothing I see this all the time on other flights... Hair raising is when I was on a Jet blue night flight to Santiago and the plane to a huge dip without notice... Those storms made the plane shake for about 20 minutes... That is hair raising
Written by: juanb, 22 Jun 2010 5:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Thank you all for sharing your ignorance with regard to air travel
safety with the rest of us. I would imagine that very few of you see any problems with the way most people here drive, as well.
Written by: Belly, 22 Jun 2010 6:25 PM
From: United States, Seattle, W.A.
The picture doesn't say much that people like me who travels a lot have not seen before. First is obvious both planes are not flying at the same altitudes or are even close so I don't see what should be scaring any frequent flyer. I have seen planes closer than that and is normal. I wonder who is the source of the picture and why not show their face if this is really a problem or is this smoke and screen to bring tourist to other islands by somebody.
Here is what a typical day looks like in space for those non-frequent flyers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo1ZtpKqlYwWritten by: antonio1, 22 Jun 2010 6:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
This was one of two possible cases; somebody trying to scare tourism away from DR.....or josean coming back.
Written by: ElProfe , 22 Jun 2010 7:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Jarabacoa
@ antonio
Josean flys First Class on AA
Written by: antonio1, 22 Jun 2010 7:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Av Santa Rosa, La Romana
Well, well, well...I guess I shouldn't be surprise.
From: United States, Fresh Water Paradise-NY Finger Lakes
This is likely a malicious hoax. There are too many inconsistencies within the story and the plane, if real, as Belly astutely indicated, is actually flying well below the plane from which picture was taken.
I've been known to castigate LF and his corrupt administration as much as anyone here, but I don't want do so based on lies. Don't get me wrong....I still dislike the whole lot and would some day like to be part of jury that administers proper justice to them. However, I will not dishonor myself by gravitating to their level and prosecute them with lies.
To the perpetrator of this hoax, you have maliciously maligned the Dominican nation with this fraudulent photograph.....you have no shame and you are no better than those you attempted to embarrass with this fraudulent contribution. Shame on you!
MJEV.
Written by: ElProfe , 22 Jun 2010 8:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Jarabacoa
Glomarexplorer,
I think DT should take some responsibility for publishing such a fraudulent story.
Also I think this could hinder some Jet Blue flyers.
From: Dominican Republic, calle A.Portes
glomar ...you have been too long out of the DR ..what do you mean by a jury ?? there is no such concept here . you have lived too long surviving under the British justice system which cannot be bettered but here the corruption has even permeated into the judicial system.
Written by: ABR23, 23 Jun 2010 7:58 AM
From: Puerto Rico
Most of your comments are correct but 3000 feet lateral seperation is ok if you have more than 1000 feet vertical seperation. Planes above 18K fly at ODD/EVEN altitudes depending on direction of flight eastbound fly at 19, 21,23, etc thousand feet. and westbound 18,20,22, etc thousand. So planes flying in the same direction have at least 2000 feet seperation. All those aircraft are in radio contact and radar contact with controllers. Also the planes have CAS (collision Avoidence System) which gives them direction and altitude of other aircraft within 5+ miles. I use the DR's controllers frequently, and though not the FAA, they are adequate. We are not talking of the airspace over MIAMI, NYC, or Chicago. The one thing that does cause some stress is the tendency for DR pilots and controllers to speak spanish. The official language in all aviation is English you hate to have to trust that the controller will let you know what is going on.
Written by: generoso, 23 Jun 2010 9:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
I have no doubt that the photo could be real, of the "too close for comfort" and potentially dangerous air traffic. The only thing that raises additional doubt is the recent troubles and strike that Spirit air had, with their pilots, and this turmoil might have caused some friction, and maybe a desire to bad mouth?
Written by: Vivacuba, 23 Jun 2010 9:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Photoshop joke. Planes are permitted to come as close as 1000' of one another. No problems. I smell a political agenda!
From: Dominican Republic, calle A.Portes
It does seem very strange that of the 200 people onboard ,and I am sure many looking out of the windows, only one saw a plane and the people in the cockpit saw nothing although it was in front of them. It obviously was not too frightening to anyone else but the unnamed passenger.
Written by: xwill7, 23 Jun 2010 1:04 PM
From: United States, El cuarto bate
strange how the guy just happened to make sure he got the jet blue website into the pic... must be an employee from another airline
From: Canada, Alberta
Rookie flyer....
Written by: JoeLaP, 23 Jun 2010 8:09 PM
From: United States, Santo Domingo DR & NY
Would anyone rather be safe than sorry. Do you have to wait for a crash to fix problem.
looks like the plane is heading right underneath the jetblue plane and dont planes have to be 3 miles apart not 3000 feet.
PS, u are allowed to use electric devices until capt says turn them off.
Cheers
Written by: charley, 25 Jun 2010 4:07 AM
From: Canada
I note that the separation was proper. It was not a dangerous situation if the distance the other airliner was below the passenger's airliner was "3000" feet.
Quite accerptable....and I have seen many aircraft closer while flying over the Eastern USA. Not much hair-raising about it.
Most people never look out the window and if they were keen to do so there would be many complaints!
Perhaps this is one reason why the cabin crew want to keep the window shades drawn (for the movies and the pleasure therefore of the other passengers).
However, I intensely dislike the fact that the pilots perhaps did not see the other aircraft. It is one of my big complaints and one reson why I have complained (through the aviation media) about pilots being "heads down" in the cockpit.
Two or three years ago there was a new air traffic controller course started in the DR. This was because of sloppy handling of air traffic. Now there are even more complaints -even from Dominican pilots.
Written by: Vivacuba, 26 Jun 2010 2:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Everybody listen up. It's called RVSM: Reduced Vertical Separation Monitoring. 1000' vertical separation! This is a political agenda. Move on!
Written by: THINK, 26 Jun 2010 7:52 AM
From: United States, SDQ -- Mia --NY
I can not imagine in case there are some human errors in the air traffice control, how the DR government gonna clean up the mess?
Written by: Vivacuba, 28 Jun 2010 12:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic
There is no "mess".
Written by: charley, 28 Jun 2010 5:37 PM
From: Canada
"Flying is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater extent than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity, or neglect"
Written by: Atc144, 29 Jan 2011 12:02 AM
From: United States
Oh god... It doesn't matter if the pilot saw or not the airplane, the another airplane was 3000ft BELOW! the JetBlue one. The minimum separation of traffics is 5 nautical miles (lateral) and 1000ft (vertical) don't be ignorant... READ FIRST ABOUT AND THEN GIVE YOUR OPINIONS, THE DOMINICAN AIRSPACE IS ONE OF THE MOST SAFETY AIRSPACE IN THE CARIBBEAN. Thanks
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Facebook
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
Jet Blue should sue the joker that brought this to DT and DT for publishing it.
Then Jet Blue will have the last laugh.
I just don't understand what good of the "RADAR" is? The radar in Jet Blue and the radar for "Air Control Tower" in Las Americas.....?
I agree, the plane does seem to be far enough. Also planes ARE equipped with their own radar system. For everyone here, check out Warning Systems on this link:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/safety/whatmakes.html#four
I once heard that if two commercial planes where flying towards each other, and their radar didn't detect each other till they are as close as a mile apart, the pilots have no more than 6 seconds or so to make an adjustment. But again, that is towards each other on a direct line.
Texas, you seemed to be a plance afficionado from other posts.. if you are around, could you shed some light?
that is a shadow or photoshop work
Hmmm that plane is to the right!
Get your story straight!
.NAV CANADA today announced the expansion of Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM) to Canadian Southern Domestic airspace. Effective January 20 at 4:01 am EST, minimum vertical separation between Flight Level (FL) 290 and FL 410 inclusive will be reduced from 2000 to 1000 feet.
so....3000 feet....what is the issue.....????
Haven't we seen a few ones circling an airport at the same time, while waiting for clearance to land?
I know that this might be a crazy analogy, but when we are on a two-lane road and incoming vehicles are no more than 5 feet from your car, is that considered a near collision?
safety with the rest of us. I would imagine that very few of you see any problems with the way most people here drive, as well.
Here is what a typical day looks like in space for those non-frequent flyers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo1ZtpKqlYw
@ antonio
Josean flys First Class on AA
This is likely a malicious hoax. There are too many inconsistencies within the story and the plane, if real, as Belly astutely indicated, is actually flying well below the plane from which picture was taken.
I've been known to castigate LF and his corrupt administration as much as anyone here, but I don't want do so based on lies. Don't get me wrong....I still dislike the whole lot and would some day like to be part of jury that administers proper justice to them. However, I will not dishonor myself by gravitating to their level and prosecute them with lies.
To the perpetrator of this hoax, you have maliciously maligned the Dominican nation with this fraudulent photograph.....you have no shame and you are no better than those you attempted to embarrass with this fraudulent contribution. Shame on you!
MJEV.
Glomarexplorer,
I think DT should take some responsibility for publishing such a fraudulent story.
Also I think this could hinder some Jet Blue flyers.
I have no doubt that the photo could be real, of the "too close for comfort" and potentially dangerous air traffic. The only thing that raises additional doubt is the recent troubles and strike that Spirit air had, with their pilots, and this turmoil might have caused some friction, and maybe a desire to bad mouth?
looks like the plane is heading right underneath the jetblue plane and dont planes have to be 3 miles apart not 3000 feet.
PS, u are allowed to use electric devices until capt says turn them off.
Cheers
Quite accerptable....and I have seen many aircraft closer while flying over the Eastern USA. Not much hair-raising about it.
Most people never look out the window and if they were keen to do so there would be many complaints!
Perhaps this is one reason why the cabin crew want to keep the window shades drawn (for the movies and the pleasure therefore of the other passengers).
However, I intensely dislike the fact that the pilots perhaps did not see the other aircraft. It is one of my big complaints and one reson why I have complained (through the aviation media) about pilots being "heads down" in the cockpit.
Two or three years ago there was a new air traffic controller course started in the DR. This was because of sloppy handling of air traffic. Now there are even more complaints -even from Dominican pilots.
I can not imagine in case there are some human errors in the air traffice control, how the DR government gonna clean up the mess?