Written by: Atabey, 6 Oct 2011 8:12 AM
From: United States, NYC
“These are extremely difficult issues and we want to encourage a fair solution so that the rights of the people are recognized, but it’s the right which nations have to control their internal borders is also clear." -Clinton
A "Fair Solution" How do we define the notion?
A. Give all Haitians, their children (born and unborn in DR territory) free identification cards indicating status as Haitian nationals. Concurrently, the State of Haiti will finally give all its citizens their own IDs and birth-certificates. This process should take no more than two years to accomplish and an international grant will help secure its implementation.
B. Do a better job of interdiction at the border,as the numbers will never fall radically unless the border is well policed.
C. Demand that the Haitian State responsibility or the UN forces to secure the border on the Haitian side. This might be the greatest challenge but also the greatest denial of illegal access if accomplished.
Written by: Atabey, 6 Oct 2011 8:17 AM
From: United States, NYC
D. Negotiate a certain numbers of residencies that could become full citizen status AFTER an established period of observation and good conduct, as defined by DR. Something a la Switzerland where Cantons must vote in new members and birth Right is established by Parental birth status.
E. Negotiate some more Visa flexibility on the part of the members of Hemisphere and other international sites to allow the excessive numbers some outlet opportunities. Even if these visas are "only" a few thousands a year, every family that obtains this status will improve their current lot and decrease the need for jobs, housing, schooling, and all the other services demanded by the people. Thus Haiti will gain some measure of breathing room in the interval. A crucial requirement to gain stability over the medium term over its immense reconstruction effort.
Perhaps a few hundred thousands will be offered this opportunity and the rest will be gradually repatriated in a dignified manner.
From: United States
The US should be the last country talking about respecting civil rights of immigrants. The US need to STFU on this topic and mind it's on business.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 10:23 AM
From: Australia
The Dominican Republic can't afford its own population explosion - it does not need to import Haiti's. Okay, just because "All countries have the obligation to protect the human rights of immigrants" that does not mean everyone and anyone has a right to BE and immigrant to any country.
Are these children being used as "anchor children" like in USA, where illegal immigrants gain legal resident status just by having a baby?
From: Dominican Republic, vieja Santo Domingo
There is a very simple solution , only children from two registered Dominican parents can be automatically registered as Dominicans , When one parent is Dominican and the other not a Dominican , there needs to be a special application to gain Dominican citizen ship and if both parents are foreigners , then the child is not a Dominican ...no matter where it is born
From: United States, California
OH MAN!!!! THIS IS A HOT HOT HOT HOT TOPIC.
Ricardolito,
I think this is the wrong way to do this, cause lots of Dominican have children that are born abroad including my kids and I would hate it if I wasn't able to send my kids to school. However we do need to find a solution.
From: Haiti
is a very very simple solution
with my solution you will be happy dominicans!
read the sentence below!
if the children are born in dr, then the children are dominicans!
the children don't must paid for their parents!
dominican rep must give all children dominican papers!
after dr must try to protect hardly the border!
and put in jail all soldier in your army of dominican who accept money from illegal haitians!
From: United Kingdom
The human thing to do is erase the boarders. One people sharing the Island as one nation. I think we all owe this to the original inhabitants of this island who shared everything this once beautiful island had to give. They even shared the island with the criminals and terrorist who would eventually bring on their own demise. It would be one of the biggest transformation on a peoples conscience in modern history. Both the Haitians & Dominicans will be celebrated around the world for a true Humanitarian endeavour. Now all you haters and dividers have a field day.
Written by: generoso, 6 Oct 2011 12:05 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
The laws in the DR are based on jus sanguini, not jus soli like in the USA.
The USA, UK, Canada and France because of their own hidden agenda, wants to sponsor Haiti-DR unification, and this is just one more step towards that goal.
Send all illegals back, with their children in tow.
From: Haiti
i would want say i would want HAITI AND SPAIN become like french and SPAIN!
From: Haiti
MyMyspinthefacts,
WAW, I'm really surprised! i would want Haiti and DR become french and SPAIN.
THe french can decided to go to live in spain and work, it's the same for the spaniard.
the border is open for the two nations, the have the same currency who are the euro!
And French buy the product of the spaniard and the spaniard do the same!
why we cannot do the same in the carib? Because you have a lot of person is blinded by their hatred!
TOGETHER we can win a lot of! divide we have the threat to be keep by the usa!
the snake is not far!
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 12:20 PM
From: Australia
MyMyspinthefacts,
So before the nasty Europeans arrived, the Caribs and Tainos were living in harmony with each other, sharing the island of Hispanola, sitting in a circle holding hands singing "Kumbaya"?
So "The human thing to do is erase the boarders."? - I think Haiti already did that with the bloody invasion of the Dominican Republic.
Do you also believe in Jesus and the tooth-fairy?
Written by: bernies, 6 Oct 2011 12:21 PM
From: United States, key west fl
So let me guess she wants more haitian women to come here and give birth to their kids so they can have a Dominican Nationality. We may considere that if the haitian were to stop hating us like they do. They Haitian hate the Dominican people just for no other reason other than we worked hard to become a more prosperous nation. Haiti was the richest island in the Caribbean when they broke free from the French. Dominican Republic was left with nothing when the Spanish left but we as hard working people made it better for all, and then the Haitian weren't happy with their country so they invated us and ran our country for 22 long f years, but as always we got them out of here and now they want to come back again to try to make this country like theirs, well that isn't going to happen Mrs. Clinton, so I suggest that you pack you baggs and go back to WDC.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 12:26 PM
From: Australia
bernies,
DR built on hard work or loans?
Written by: generoso, 6 Oct 2011 12:39 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
Roystone
The invisible man in the sky, blessed the DR, and pushed our progress. On the other side, the imported and bitter residents, stuck to their cannibalism, necromancy, and all their voo doo ways, and jinxed themselves, enraged the Gods, which in turn cursed them forever.
From: United Kingdom
@ RoyStone, you're at it again, causing division! The Taínos were the prime people living in the island. The Caribs were a marauding people who would go raiding around the Caribbean, while the Tainos stay put and live a basically peaceful existence. You & generoso play into the hands of the old elitist nations of Europe, the like of the USA and Canada. Their Modus Operandi has aways been 'divide and rule', but in your wisdom they rather do the opposite in DR? I think you been smoking to many platano leaves. If need further proof of their Modus Operandi, look no further than Korea, Vietnam, Iraq,Kashmir, and Sudan recently to show what a ridiculous notion that is. Even the EU has been the target for division by the USA. So is quite contrive on your part to suggest such a silly idea, and what would be their hidden agenda if l might ask? It has no benefit to the elitist what so ever, in fact , it would be detrimental to their Modus Operandi. Unless there has been a UN resolution back up
From: United Kingdom
contiual, by the Elitist nations that I haven't heard of? My guess is that your comments come from hatred, and bigotry and that equals division. But I might be wrong. This has nothing to do with as you put it "Jesus and the tooth-fairy?" It has all to do with human frailties, like fear, hatred, bigotry and the notion that I'm better than you. These are all human feelings, and if you can look outside the box, you will realise that it makes no sense.
From: United Kingdom
The sad thing about all this hatred, and people calling to send them back, police the boarders etc, etc is, that this Island like the USA, and most of South America was stolen from is original people in the first place. I can understand this kind of hatred from Eurocentric minds, but not from the people who also have been the butt of that hatred thru their ancestors and thru the last 500 years of Colonialism. The demography of DR is 73% mixed race give or take a few % depends who you believe, 16% white, 11% black. So any person with a thinking brain can deduce from that, that the majority of Dominicans have a racial connections with Haitians, via Africa or the Tainos who lived in the island in the first place, so the majorities of Dominicans have an ancestor that at one time or another lived in Haiti. Even this fact cannot move some people into a more human or just way of thinking. It is truly sad.
Written by: generoso, 6 Oct 2011 1:32 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
MyMyspinthefacts
Your arguments are flawed, so much so because you have to lift your head from inhabiting your darkest body cavity.
Haiti-DR unification can not prosper, simply because the DR will not gain any benefits from that, and instead lose, what they have gained over the years, with so much struggles.
Haitians and their economic basket case, unlike the European nations, that lifted borders based on similar economies, incomes, and living standards, can only export poverty, disease, illiteracy, homelessness, ignorance, superstitions, over population, and bad smells.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 1:51 PM
From: Australia
MyMyspinthefacts,
You are correct in some aspects of what you say. Ultimately we are all descendents of Africans. However the history of Homo sapiens sapiens has always been that of conquest by the strongest. The first inhabitants of a region cannot assume inalienable tenure forever. It is encouraging to see the divisions between countries evaporating, but new divisions are widening based on ethnicity, religion and even gender. We are sliding into a new Dark Ages, perhaps deeper than the previous. Religious fundamentalism is on the increase, along with exponential population explosion, depletion of the world's resources and environment, and division between the educated haves and the uneducated havenots.
From: United States, California
MyMyspinthefacts,
The truth of the matter is that most Dominican are ashamed of their African heritage and that contribute to the dislike of the Haitians, and don't you forget Haiti occupied the DR for a long time and that will never be forgotten. Dominican should be proud of both their African and white European heritage. I agree that illegal should be sent back in a humane way; however I would also say that whoever is born in the DR. is a Dominican by birth and should have the right of a citizen. Most children of Haitians born in the DR. are denied a birth certificate; therefore they can't get an education which would help them contribute to the society in a positive way.
From: United States, California
RoyStone,
The truth flows out of your mouth like the current of a river.
"RELIGION MEANS DIVISION"
From: Dominican Republic
I say deportation must go on but respect their human rights. Send them back with dignity.
From: Dominican Republic, I dislike all politicians and their afiliated parties... "I simply say it AS IT IS!!"
Oh, Hillary...
What about spreading all 10Mil Haitians on U.S.A soil?
Don't you think that sounds much better?
Written by: Atabey, 6 Oct 2011 3:15 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 1:51 PM
From: Australia
MyMyspinthefacts,
You are correct in some aspects of what you say. Ultimately we are all descendents of Africans. However the history of Homo sapiens sapiens has always been that of conquest by the strongest. The first inhabitants of a region cannot assume inalienable tenure forever. It is encouraging to see the divisions between countries evaporating, but new divisions are widening based on ethnicity, religion and even gender. We are sliding into a new Dark Ages, perhaps deeper than the previous. Religious fundamentalism is on the increase, along with exponential population explosion, depletion of the world's resources and environment, and division between the educated haves and the uneducated havenots."
Took the words out of my mouth. History has not ended MyMyspinthefacts! And while it may be sad, these tendencies are REAL nevertheless. Before this century is 70 years old, we might see another 2 billion souls!
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Yes Hillary, we should also adopt them and sell them as pets.
WHO WANTS TO BUY A PETIT GARCON?
GO BACK TO THE US of A and finish that big wall you people are constructing around Mexico's border.
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
KAKIMAN, I was trying to make sense of your English, but I couldn't; anyway France and Spain are two educated people unlike Haiti and D.R. there is no gain there.
Kakiman: is France not French.
From: United Kingdom
@generoso, Lets keep it civil and discuss the issue with dignity and respect, can we do that? My argument is flaw you write, but you don't share with us what that flaw is? Than you go on about DR will not benefit if there was a unification, are you talking about monetary benefit, or social, cultural, or human benefit? For starters do you know how much it cost to guard the boarders? Do you know the cost of having 800,000 to a million migrate to DR and the cost of repatration, or the cost of crime related to desperate people doing desperate things? How about the cost to DR on the international stage? There are plenty of other monetary lost that you've not consider. I can see a multitude of benefit with the boarders dismantle, financially, socially, cultural and best of all humanly. I wonder what gains you're talking about that DR will lose? Most of the low-paying and unskilled jobs in building construction, household cleaning, and in sugar plantations, etc are done by the Haitians.
From: United Kingdom
Continual, So the logical conclusion is, that most of the money they make is sent back to Haiti, and doesn't go back into the DR economy. Having the boarders only benefit the Elitist in D.R., they can use the Haitians as slave labour, and they make all the benefits not the Dominican people. So if the Dominicans have struggle the Haitians have struggle twice as much. You have not read or research much on what happen to Haiti after they gain their independence from France and the colonial powers have you generoso? Or maybe you have and want to share with us why they're such an economical basket case? I will wait patiently for your answer generoso. It will be very interesting to hear your take on it! But, by reading some of your other posts, it will be riddle with bigotry, stereotypical nonsense, and probably thru the eyes of the colonial powers if your post to me is an indication.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Oct 2011 5:55 PM
From: Australia
If a family trashes their own house, do they have a right to move in with the family next door?
From: United States
Many people automatically and ignorantly assume that giving rights to Dominicans of Haitian descent and other Haitians automatically means that the US wants the Dominican Republic to just give ALL Haitians citizenship. No. The point is that there is (and has been for a long time) a growing number of people who have been in the Dominican Republic for years and years, who were born and raised there and yet because they have a 'Haitian sounding' last name, or 'look' Haitian they are denied their rights and THAT is what the International community is referring to. History clearly shows that many factors have determined the current state of Haiti including a HUGE debt that was imposed on them IMMEDIATELY after gaining independence, intervention of the US, political struggles etc. It is not a lack of "hard work". In the minds of some Haitians are inferior and people ignorantly equate Haitians presence in the Country to seek better living with the Haitian occupation of yesteryear.
From: United Kingdom
@RoyStone, I will give you the same answer I gave to your partner in Crime generoso, go and read and do some research on why the Haitians are so poor and desperate. All you do is post soundbites that you must have heard on FoxNews, you never write anything with substance.
From: United Kingdom
@ELPAPA999, You're absolutely right regarding how Dominicans see the Haitians, it's an absolute travesty and a big blemish on Dominicans all over the world. While the civilise world celebrate and bask in anything of African culture, we, people who have that culture running thru our blood are a shamed of it. How ironic is that? People who are desperate will basically do anything to survive, Haitians are no different. Dominican themselves should know this, they risk their life thru the mona passage to get to Puerto Rico, Dominican women are part of the prostitution trade in Europe, my point being that desperate people do desperate things to survive. Haitians were the losers from day one, when they were abducted from Africa and made to slave for the colonial power, and some of us know what being a slave to these savages entail. So Dominicans need to get over what happen over 200 years ago. If hatred and animosity should be place on someone, it should be Spain and France
From: United Kingdom
Continual, these were the main Colonial powers who committed the most horrendous crimes on the Haitians and the Dominicans.
From: United States
Mymyspinthefacts- Its unfortunate to see but racial discrimination more than politics explain why the migration issue is handled the way it is. Too many people have been duped to believe that Haitians are out to "take over" when clearly their presence is about better living conditions. Some prefer to beleive that Haitians are "invading" because that's their presumed "justification" of looking at them as enemies. Just as you mentioned there is so much contention aimed at Haitians, and everyone so quickly bring up the 20+ years occcupation but comparatively you will never hear anyone speak critically of how the Spanish nearly made the Taino extinct in Quisqueya. But the habits, behaviors and attitudes regarding identity, race and color cleary indicate what the underlying issues are.
Written by: generoso, 6 Oct 2011 10:31 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
MyMySpinthefacts
I can not educate you on DR-Haiti history, economics or anthropology, you must do that yourself. Go to the forum and start reading in Haiti related threads, and you may learn something.
Haiti is a basket case in ALL areas, be those economic, social, security, natural resources, deforestation, infrastructure, education, health, overpopulation.
None of your neighbors (I am assuming you are Haitian) want any part of you folks, even Cuba, sends Haitians back as soon as they arrive.
Haiti is a burden to DR and Haitians are untouchables and undesirable in all of the caribbean, because of the obvious factors above plus their language, superstitions, and predatory ways.
Haitians elbow themselves in the Dominican food table, and bring nothing with them except trouble and needs, stressing our hospitals, education system, infrastructure, transportation, food, housing, and depress wages for Dominican laborers.
The Dominican Republic is NOT the solution to Haiti's problems,
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 4:26 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: BernardJeanPierre, 6 Oct 2011 10:20 PM
From: United States
Mymyspinthefacts- Its unfortunate to see but racial discrimination more than politics explain why the migration issue is handled the way it is. Too many people have been duped to believe that Haitians are out to "take over" when clearly their presence is about better living conditions. Some prefer to beleive that Haitians are "invading" because that's their presumed "justification" of looking at them as enemies. Just as you mentioned there is so much contention aimed at Haitians, and everyone so quickly bring up the 20+ years occcupation but comparatively you will never hear anyone speak critically of how the Spanish nearly made the Taino extinct in Quisqueya. But the habits, behaviors and attitudes regarding identity, race and color cleary indicate what the underlying issues are.
------
Take Over??? have EVEN READ the History of the Dominican Republic??? are you aware that haiti ALREADY took over once???
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 4:36 AM
From: Dominican Republic
AGAIN i CHALLENGE here anyone with balls enough to answer this VERY simple question:
WHAT good has EVER come from Haiti to Dominican Side??... the answer is NONE or best case scenario VERY SMALL
P.S. for all the foreigners and ignorant of DR history, allow me to educate you, DR is the ONLY country IN THE WORLD to gain it's Independence from a Black Racist Regime, The Measures that Jean Pierre Boyer took to "BLACKEN" the MIX population are THERE to see... It took 12 Fu*king years of Dominican BLOOD to get rid of these REVERSE racist people, so don't come and lecture Dominicans on racism against haitians and the rest of the BS.
I read people here wiriting about the Payments that haitian did to france, BUT THEY DON'T MENTION at all that WE WERE FORCED TO SPENT 22 years as slaves PAYING that for them, as victims of Haitian imperialism, that shows how BIASED and one sided these people are.
I REPEAT, WHAT GOOD has ever come from the WEST??? WAITING for the ANSWE
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 4:39 AM
From: Dominican Republic
By the way, DO NOT COMPARE Haitian immigration to ANYTHING known, like the Mexican Immigration...if the US or whoever wants to grant Jus solis, that is their own business!! just like we determine WHO is Dominican.
From: Haiti
MyMyspinthefacts,
Continuous to educate the hatred Dominicans who are 11% white here!
They are lead by their racist mind, narrow-minded, and dumb!
GENEROSO
i am sure you are most idiot and smell person of the world!
'unlike the European nations, that lifted borders based on similar economies, incomes, and living standards,'
You don't know the story of european union then why you speak about something you don't know!
Spain, Italy, Greece and a lot of nations was poor before they come in European Union.
After a lot of reforms, a lot of helps from France, They succeed and the come in European Union, when you come in European Union, the countries rich like france and GERMANY, Helps the other countries. Now you have Greece Which have a lot of ecomic problem! The other countries go to lend us hundreds of billions
From: Haiti
AIRGODO
Haiti help you to take your independance against your cousin spaniard! we send soldier to beat the spaniard and we give you money for that, but your corrupt politicians prefere lie the dominicans! You win your independance not against haiti but agains BOYER who are a thread for the haitians in HAITI!
If all haiti will keep Domincan REP, you will be Haitians like me!
Let me tell you, thanks to Haiti your trade is not unbalanced! Thanks to the Haitian who work in your country, your country is competitive! A lot of among you are spaniard in the soul, you want the divide!
GENOROSO you are a coward, i am sure you are the same person like Guillermone!
You have the same thought, you have the same writing style! you are both rotten. ANd you write for the spaniard like you!
You are very racist, the hatred of Haiti will lost you a day! don't forget you can meet a lot of Haitian in USA! you hate the haitians and you play on fear of the dominicans to divide the two nations.
Written by: RoyStone, 7 Oct 2011 8:38 AM
From: Australia
Guys!
I set up a special discussion site on Dominican Today where you can vent your "Dominican vs Haitian" spleens, and leave the rest of Dominican Today for constructive comment, discussion and criticism on other matters.
Wanna go there?
From: United States
Haitian women in genereal are giving birth anywhere from 3 to 5 children, now do you get the picture. Who is going to take care of these children when the DR government cannot do it for Dominicans? What will the parents do to raise their kids? In order for a nation to succeed the government has to have some sort of control and be able to aid the population in some ways, this is not possible in DR with the massive exodus from Haiti. How about the US, Canada, Britain and France who are the nations with the means to help come through with their promise to assist haitian people improve their living conditions. WE DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO DO SO; OUR NATION HAS TO LOOK OUT FOR ITS OWN PEOPLE. PEASE UNDERSTAND WE ARE A SOVEREIGN NATION WITH LAWS AS ANY OTHER COUNTRY. WE HAVE TO MAKE OUR LAWS BE ENFORCED IF THINGS ARE TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
From: United States
Here is my simple solution to the matter and I have seen firsthand what goes on in DR for I lived my entire childhood very close to the border in Dajabon. We need to secure the border and have better control with the immigration issue. First, DR is a third world country, there are approximately 3 million Haitians living in the country as we speak, we do not have the infrastructure to house all these people. They live in the streets; most believe it or not have no jobs, only a fraction hold construction and farm jobs. They wonder the streets with no destination. They are hungry and don’t have the means to feed themselves so inevitably they turn to stealing what they can for whom they can (not all Haitians do this, I don’t mean to generalize, but a lot have to do so to survive)
From: Haiti
GENEROSO
you laugh at the Haitian culture because you are full of hatred, in all the carib except Dominican rep, the love the culture haitian, our beautiful art of painting,our books, our music(we have compa and music of racine with rara etc...
Your ignorance will lost you again!
It's sad for you! because your countrymen have a very good open mind, 'you said he is haitian'
I am very happy all dominicans are not idiot like the persons like generoso who is guillermo and a lot of in the site!
From: Dominican Republic
@MyMyspinthefacts,
As you already read in this forum the issue of Dominican-Haiti relations is a thorny and complicated one. The solution to Haiti economic problems will not be resolved by the Dominican Republic opening its borders. Dominican Republic does not have the capacity to adsorb Haiti's unemployed labor force approximately 40.6%. Now, contrast the previous number, with Dominican Republic current unemployment rate 13.3% (2010 est.), and you will see that there is no incentive for Dominican Republic to entertain this idea.
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 3:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 7 Oct 2011 8:26 AM
AIRGODO
Haiti help you to take your independance against your cousin spaniard! we send soldier to beat the spaniard and we give you money for that, but your corrupt politicians prefere lie the dominicans! You win your independance not against haiti but agains BOYER who are a thread for the haitians in HAITI!
If all haiti will keep Domincan REP, you will be Haitians like me!
Let me tell you, thanks to Haiti your trade is not unbalanced! Thanks to the Haitian who work in your country, your country is competitive! A lot of among you are spaniard in the soul, you want the divide
-----
WHAT????? you helped us to WHAT??? we won our independence AFTER 12 years, TWELVE years of wars becasue the haitian Imperialists WILL NOT GIVE UP, Boyer was LONG GONE when we finally Fought THE LAST BATTLE so that right there is nothing but a LIE that i can be easily proved AND CRUSHED, by comparing what year Boyer was Gone and what year the last battle
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 3:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic
WHAT good has EVER come from the west???
From: United States, California
airgordo,
Have you or any your family had to picar cana in 100 degree weather??
They have done some good, but we don’t need them anymore.
Written by: airgordo, 7 Oct 2011 5:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
1- WE don't have 100 degrees here, we use CELCIUS...
2- Although i Have done lots of work at VERY HOT enviroment No i have not cut Cania YET...i would like to know what good come from that to the DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
From: United Kingdom
@ generoso, You need help son, real help! Somewhere in your childhood you were either abuse or neglected. All that comes out of your post is a hatred for other people you feel aren't worthy of compassion or empathy. The worst thing is, that you mis-imform, twist history, give us plenty of half truths, and a bunch of loaded questions to help your twisted agenda. I was born in Pueblo Nuevo, Santiago to a Dominican father & mother! Have you heard of the saying "Never Assume, because you make an ass out of you and me". I feel like puking when l read the rubbish that you write about another people who've done nothing to you, and probably is their skin colour that got your knickers all twisted. You must be a member of the KKK to foster such hatred for another race. I do not believe that you are Dominican, and if you are, you must be a Trujillita! It is 2011 mate, and your type of thinking is becoming obsolete, so is best you join the human race & leave the dark though at the door.
From: United Kingdom
@ ELPAPA999, KISKEYAMAN, BernardJeanPierre, and the rest of free thinking people on this blog, and I write this with trepidation. Some people on this blog are pretty backward and disingenuous with what they write, a lot of stereotyping and labelling, and twisted history pass on from one bigot to another. Their knowledge of this subject comes from bitterness and contempt, not from an objective point of view. I feel it is a lost cause mainly because of the erroneous ideas and history that some people write as facts. Funny how the haters go on about juju & the Haitians, even tho they are the ones acting like zombies. We need to get a blog going for free thinking people who believe in Justice for both nations,....... Peace
Written by: generoso, 7 Oct 2011 7:14 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
MyMyspin ay 'fó and the rest of free thinking Haitians
Yes you are not Dominican for sure, you are a tipi mate.
The DR is NOT the solution to Haiti's never ending problems!
From: United Kingdom
@ generoso, You're right for the first time, I'm not Dominican, I'm a human being first & foremost, who doesn't have a flag, who is not patriotic (a fancy word for a racist) and who treats other people as I want to be treated. I don't kiss the flag and get weak at the knees singing patriotic songs, I leave that to the war mongers and the haters. You need to get out a bid more, a little further afield than the US & DR, you might discover that a good portion of the globe have moved on from a slave mentality.
From: United Kingdom
@generoso, Funny how you keep dropping Europe in your writing, have you ever been? Cause if you had, you would know that your way of thinking would offend most people, and that you would be consider a pariah and shunned upon by most thinking and decent people.
From: Haiti
MyMyspinthefacts,
100% agree with you!
GENEROSO is the same persons that GUILLERMONE!
altunbierno and the other is a lot of member of KKK !
they are here for divided!
Written by: generoso, 7 Oct 2011 10:06 PM
From: United States, Quisqueya
Both of you barefoot tipi geniuses are correct about Guillermone and me being the same persons, we are twin brothers! Think alike, and are patriotic Dominicans that care about our country!
And surely don't want it ruined by the exporting and dumping of more Haitian untouchables, into the DR.
You already ruined and were successful making Haiti a failed state, and a ecological nightmare.
Stay in your barren land, Dominicans don't need, want or desire any more illegal Haitians!
Is that so hard to understand? What part of the word NO, is that you can not comprehend?
From: Haiti
GUILLERMONE
You are a racist person, you are rotten in your deep bone!
what you don't want is what you have!
you think you speak for all dominicans? I am not sure you are dominican! I am sure you are American, and one of your parents are HAITIANS!
because the haitian don't love your mother then you hate the haitians like that.
Trullo and Hitler is your god, you are frustraded, you are a shabby person!
It's sad to see you do a lot of shit in your Knickers when you see an haitian who face to you!
I have no respect for a man like you!
unhappy you work to have clone person like you in your country!
if that DR are become a great mess! more mess like palestine!
From: Dominican Republic
@MyMyspinthefacts,
I believe you are right. To have a discussion about this topic, without it degenerating into a shouting match is almost impossible. With that said, here are my two cents…The advocates/sympathizers of the idea of unification and/or open borders, in order to improve Haiti's economic outlook, tend to interpret Dominican's refusal to this union, as evidence to an alleged collective denial of our African ancestry, racism and/or xenophobia. The implication being that, if Dominicans accepted their "blackness" then, we would be more accepting to the whole idea of unification and less incline to deport the illegal Haitian population. This, of course, is very subjective, and depending of who you talked to, some will agree and some will take offense. But regardless, what is clear is that between sovereign nations unification cannot be primary based on whether or not its population share the same skin color, but it should be based mainly on the economic gains that could be
From: Dominican Republic
achieve by the parties involved.
From: Dominican Republic
Moreover, many Dominicans feel that they are being "strong arm" into a "shotgun wedding" we didn't ask or want. As one of the previous poster asked, what's in it for the Dominicans? Some have suggested that the combined strength of both labor forces would catapult both Haiti's and DR productivity, leading to the improvement of each other economies. However, no data is ever provided that would back this claim.
Written by: airgordo, 8 Oct 2011 1:37 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: MyMyspinthefacts, 7 Oct 2011 7:58 PM
From: United Kingdom
@ generoso, You're right for the first time, I'm not Dominican, I'm a human being first & foremost, who doesn't have a flag, who is not patriotic (a fancy word for a racist) and who treats other people as I want to be treated. I don't kiss the flag and get weak at the knees singing patriotic songs, I leave that to the war mongers and the haters. You need to get out a bid more, a little further afield than the US & DR, you might discover that a good portion of the globe have moved on from a slave mentality.
-----
I will then strongly suggest you that you keep hoping for world peace and singing KUMBAYA , you are MILES away from the REAL world, the world that io see EVERY DAY (pueblo nuevo includded) on DR and Santiago
From: United Kingdom
@ Arcangel96, Funny that you point out that hypothesis, and you're not far from the truth. It's like the family that wouldn't except that one of their child is gay, so the skeletons are kept in the closet at all cost. Because once you except that your child is gay, than love is the next step. So great of you to bring that hypothesis to the debate.... Cheers.
From: United States
Race Race, Black Black .... it's all you hear from the haitians on this website, expecially when one is trying to explain that DR its not the solution for haiti's problem. Race card pulling always works for the haitians when nothing else is left, doesn't it?
From: Dominican Republic
@MyMyspinthefacts,
Although I understand your analogy, I believe it does not accurately portrays the current state of Dominico-Haitian relations. The island is shared by two different and distinct societies with very few things in common. The challenges of border enforcement and the issues of illegal immigration are complex, expensive and well known. Good intentions, regardless of how desperate and unfortunate are the circumstances of the illegal immigrant, are not reasons enough to not enforce our laws.
From: United Kingdom
@ Arcangel96, I agreed 110% that the challenges would be monumental, and Logistically speaking almost impossible. But it was my own personal view an a very utopian ideal, regardless how improbable this task would be. My concerns was how some bloggers show fervent towards division and not towards people working together for a better future for both people. Although you've pointed out how different both societies are, I would prefer to look for the similarities, and there are plenties and common point for both societies. Thanks for your reply.
From: United States
I would like to see DR enforce the law when it comes to Immigration, and if we are racist then listen to this, i dare a light skin or white dominican to cross the border to Haiti and see what happens, there is a lot of hatred on the other side as well.... I know people who had trade with a few haitian organizations, they would bring supplies like Casaba, rice etc. to haiti and more than once their trucks were ambushed and bombarded with stones.
From: United States, California
Lier lier your pants on fire!!!!
From: Haiti
HERNANDEZ
Let me answer to you!
a lot of dominicans who have a lot of truck, it's normal to cross all days the border for give their products but when the same dominicans see they haitians do the same in DR but with less trucks, they dominicans are angry! all product who begin to have success in DR, make angry the dominicans, for they dominicans it's normal to send to haiti their products but it's not normal that HAITIANS MAKE THE SAME!
It's for that the dominicans a lot of time had try to forbide the truck haitians to cross the border for go to DR.
But the haitians did the same, and when each time they saw the haitians are angry and the lost a lot of money, they let haitian cross the border. But sometimes they refuse to the haitians to cross the border with their truck but the dominicans went to go to haiti to deverse their products.
It's not a story of racism but for answer to the dominicans!
THE HAITIANS ARE NOT dumb and idiot!
From: United States
pitiman....other haitians might not be dumb or idiots,but you are....ha,ha,ha,ha..
From: Haiti
you win, you are the most idiot in the world
AHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
Little coward!
From: United States
who's managing haiti?
dominicans are.ha,ha,haaa..!!
From: Haiti
TUNGAMAN
AHAHHAHA You make me laugh! you think all dominicans can win a fight against the haitians?
Come to haiti, and come in front of me! i will show you some technics for break your mouths and your arms more quickly than seagal!
coward guy!
From: United States
Historically,we've always own you!
And if we meet I'm kicking your ass WITH YOUR OWN FOOT!!
From: Haiti
HISTORICALLY, you was mine!
AHAHHHAHAAHHAHHAHAHHA AND I STAY IN YOUR HEAD A THREAT FOR YOU!
Don't forget that, those you don't want it's what you want!
I break your loudmouth and make you respect your farther!
From: United States, California
@ KISKEYAMAN & tunbagobierno,
You guys are funny as hell. LOL
From: United States
@ELPAPA999 :
Thanks.
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A "Fair Solution" How do we define the notion?
A. Give all Haitians, their children (born and unborn in DR territory) free identification cards indicating status as Haitian nationals. Concurrently, the State of Haiti will finally give all its citizens their own IDs and birth-certificates. This process should take no more than two years to accomplish and an international grant will help secure its implementation.
B. Do a better job of interdiction at the border,as the numbers will never fall radically unless the border is well policed.
C. Demand that the Haitian State responsibility or the UN forces to secure the border on the Haitian side. This might be the greatest challenge but also the greatest denial of illegal access if accomplished.
E. Negotiate some more Visa flexibility on the part of the members of Hemisphere and other international sites to allow the excessive numbers some outlet opportunities. Even if these visas are "only" a few thousands a year, every family that obtains this status will improve their current lot and decrease the need for jobs, housing, schooling, and all the other services demanded by the people. Thus Haiti will gain some measure of breathing room in the interval. A crucial requirement to gain stability over the medium term over its immense reconstruction effort.
Perhaps a few hundred thousands will be offered this opportunity and the rest will be gradually repatriated in a dignified manner.
Are these children being used as "anchor children" like in USA, where illegal immigrants gain legal resident status just by having a baby?
Ricardolito,
I think this is the wrong way to do this, cause lots of Dominican have children that are born abroad including my kids and I would hate it if I wasn't able to send my kids to school. However we do need to find a solution.
with my solution you will be happy dominicans!
read the sentence below!
if the children are born in dr, then the children are dominicans!
the children don't must paid for their parents!
dominican rep must give all children dominican papers!
after dr must try to protect hardly the border!
and put in jail all soldier in your army of dominican who accept money from illegal haitians!
The laws in the DR are based on jus sanguini, not jus soli like in the USA.
The USA, UK, Canada and France because of their own hidden agenda, wants to sponsor Haiti-DR unification, and this is just one more step towards that goal.
Send all illegals back, with their children in tow.
WAW, I'm really surprised! i would want Haiti and DR become french and SPAIN.
THe french can decided to go to live in spain and work, it's the same for the spaniard.
the border is open for the two nations, the have the same currency who are the euro!
And French buy the product of the spaniard and the spaniard do the same!
why we cannot do the same in the carib? Because you have a lot of person is blinded by their hatred!
TOGETHER we can win a lot of! divide we have the threat to be keep by the usa!
the snake is not far!
So before the nasty Europeans arrived, the Caribs and Tainos were living in harmony with each other, sharing the island of Hispanola, sitting in a circle holding hands singing "Kumbaya"?
So "The human thing to do is erase the boarders."? - I think Haiti already did that with the bloody invasion of the Dominican Republic.
Do you also believe in Jesus and the tooth-fairy?
DR built on hard work or loans?
The invisible man in the sky, blessed the DR, and pushed our progress. On the other side, the imported and bitter residents, stuck to their cannibalism, necromancy, and all their voo doo ways, and jinxed themselves, enraged the Gods, which in turn cursed them forever.
Your arguments are flawed, so much so because you have to lift your head from inhabiting your darkest body cavity.
Haiti-DR unification can not prosper, simply because the DR will not gain any benefits from that, and instead lose, what they have gained over the years, with so much struggles.
Haitians and their economic basket case, unlike the European nations, that lifted borders based on similar economies, incomes, and living standards, can only export poverty, disease, illiteracy, homelessness, ignorance, superstitions, over population, and bad smells.
You are correct in some aspects of what you say. Ultimately we are all descendents of Africans. However the history of Homo sapiens sapiens has always been that of conquest by the strongest. The first inhabitants of a region cannot assume inalienable tenure forever. It is encouraging to see the divisions between countries evaporating, but new divisions are widening based on ethnicity, religion and even gender. We are sliding into a new Dark Ages, perhaps deeper than the previous. Religious fundamentalism is on the increase, along with exponential population explosion, depletion of the world's resources and environment, and division between the educated haves and the uneducated havenots.
The truth of the matter is that most Dominican are ashamed of their African heritage and that contribute to the dislike of the Haitians, and don't you forget Haiti occupied the DR for a long time and that will never be forgotten. Dominican should be proud of both their African and white European heritage. I agree that illegal should be sent back in a humane way; however I would also say that whoever is born in the DR. is a Dominican by birth and should have the right of a citizen. Most children of Haitians born in the DR. are denied a birth certificate; therefore they can't get an education which would help them contribute to the society in a positive way.
The truth flows out of your mouth like the current of a river.
"RELIGION MEANS DIVISION"
What about spreading all 10Mil Haitians on U.S.A soil?
Don't you think that sounds much better?
From: Australia
MyMyspinthefacts,
You are correct in some aspects of what you say. Ultimately we are all descendents of Africans. However the history of Homo sapiens sapiens has always been that of conquest by the strongest. The first inhabitants of a region cannot assume inalienable tenure forever. It is encouraging to see the divisions between countries evaporating, but new divisions are widening based on ethnicity, religion and even gender. We are sliding into a new Dark Ages, perhaps deeper than the previous. Religious fundamentalism is on the increase, along with exponential population explosion, depletion of the world's resources and environment, and division between the educated haves and the uneducated havenots."
Took the words out of my mouth. History has not ended MyMyspinthefacts! And while it may be sad, these tendencies are REAL nevertheless. Before this century is 70 years old, we might see another 2 billion souls!
WHO WANTS TO BUY A PETIT GARCON?
GO BACK TO THE US of A and finish that big wall you people are constructing around Mexico's border.
Kakiman: is France not French.
I can not educate you on DR-Haiti history, economics or anthropology, you must do that yourself. Go to the forum and start reading in Haiti related threads, and you may learn something.
Haiti is a basket case in ALL areas, be those economic, social, security, natural resources, deforestation, infrastructure, education, health, overpopulation.
None of your neighbors (I am assuming you are Haitian) want any part of you folks, even Cuba, sends Haitians back as soon as they arrive.
Haiti is a burden to DR and Haitians are untouchables and undesirable in all of the caribbean, because of the obvious factors above plus their language, superstitions, and predatory ways.
Haitians elbow themselves in the Dominican food table, and bring nothing with them except trouble and needs, stressing our hospitals, education system, infrastructure, transportation, food, housing, and depress wages for Dominican laborers.
The Dominican Republic is NOT the solution to Haiti's problems,
From: United States
Mymyspinthefacts- Its unfortunate to see but racial discrimination more than politics explain why the migration issue is handled the way it is. Too many people have been duped to believe that Haitians are out to "take over" when clearly their presence is about better living conditions. Some prefer to beleive that Haitians are "invading" because that's their presumed "justification" of looking at them as enemies. Just as you mentioned there is so much contention aimed at Haitians, and everyone so quickly bring up the 20+ years occcupation but comparatively you will never hear anyone speak critically of how the Spanish nearly made the Taino extinct in Quisqueya. But the habits, behaviors and attitudes regarding identity, race and color cleary indicate what the underlying issues are.
------
Take Over??? have EVEN READ the History of the Dominican Republic??? are you aware that haiti ALREADY took over once???
WHAT good has EVER come from Haiti to Dominican Side??... the answer is NONE or best case scenario VERY SMALL
P.S. for all the foreigners and ignorant of DR history, allow me to educate you, DR is the ONLY country IN THE WORLD to gain it's Independence from a Black Racist Regime, The Measures that Jean Pierre Boyer took to "BLACKEN" the MIX population are THERE to see... It took 12 Fu*king years of Dominican BLOOD to get rid of these REVERSE racist people, so don't come and lecture Dominicans on racism against haitians and the rest of the BS.
I read people here wiriting about the Payments that haitian did to france, BUT THEY DON'T MENTION at all that WE WERE FORCED TO SPENT 22 years as slaves PAYING that for them, as victims of Haitian imperialism, that shows how BIASED and one sided these people are.
I REPEAT, WHAT GOOD has ever come from the WEST??? WAITING for the ANSWE
Continuous to educate the hatred Dominicans who are 11% white here!
They are lead by their racist mind, narrow-minded, and dumb!
GENEROSO
i am sure you are most idiot and smell person of the world!
'unlike the European nations, that lifted borders based on similar economies, incomes, and living standards,'
You don't know the story of european union then why you speak about something you don't know!
Spain, Italy, Greece and a lot of nations was poor before they come in European Union.
After a lot of reforms, a lot of helps from France, They succeed and the come in European Union, when you come in European Union, the countries rich like france and GERMANY, Helps the other countries. Now you have Greece Which have a lot of ecomic problem! The other countries go to lend us hundreds of billions
Haiti help you to take your independance against your cousin spaniard! we send soldier to beat the spaniard and we give you money for that, but your corrupt politicians prefere lie the dominicans! You win your independance not against haiti but agains BOYER who are a thread for the haitians in HAITI!
If all haiti will keep Domincan REP, you will be Haitians like me!
Let me tell you, thanks to Haiti your trade is not unbalanced! Thanks to the Haitian who work in your country, your country is competitive! A lot of among you are spaniard in the soul, you want the divide!
GENOROSO you are a coward, i am sure you are the same person like Guillermone!
You have the same thought, you have the same writing style! you are both rotten. ANd you write for the spaniard like you!
You are very racist, the hatred of Haiti will lost you a day! don't forget you can meet a lot of Haitian in USA! you hate the haitians and you play on fear of the dominicans to divide the two nations.
I set up a special discussion site on Dominican Today where you can vent your "Dominican vs Haitian" spleens, and leave the rest of Dominican Today for constructive comment, discussion and criticism on other matters.
Wanna go there?
GENEROSO
you laugh at the Haitian culture because you are full of hatred, in all the carib except Dominican rep, the love the culture haitian, our beautiful art of painting,our books, our music(we have compa and music of racine with rara etc...
Your ignorance will lost you again!
It's sad for you! because your countrymen have a very good open mind, 'you said he is haitian'
I am very happy all dominicans are not idiot like the persons like generoso who is guillermo and a lot of in the site!
As you already read in this forum the issue of Dominican-Haiti relations is a thorny and complicated one. The solution to Haiti economic problems will not be resolved by the Dominican Republic opening its borders. Dominican Republic does not have the capacity to adsorb Haiti's unemployed labor force approximately 40.6%. Now, contrast the previous number, with Dominican Republic current unemployment rate 13.3% (2010 est.), and you will see that there is no incentive for Dominican Republic to entertain this idea.
AIRGODO
Haiti help you to take your independance against your cousin spaniard! we send soldier to beat the spaniard and we give you money for that, but your corrupt politicians prefere lie the dominicans! You win your independance not against haiti but agains BOYER who are a thread for the haitians in HAITI!
If all haiti will keep Domincan REP, you will be Haitians like me!
Let me tell you, thanks to Haiti your trade is not unbalanced! Thanks to the Haitian who work in your country, your country is competitive! A lot of among you are spaniard in the soul, you want the divide
-----
WHAT????? you helped us to WHAT??? we won our independence AFTER 12 years, TWELVE years of wars becasue the haitian Imperialists WILL NOT GIVE UP, Boyer was LONG GONE when we finally Fought THE LAST BATTLE so that right there is nothing but a LIE that i can be easily proved AND CRUSHED, by comparing what year Boyer was Gone and what year the last battle
Have you or any your family had to picar cana in 100 degree weather??
They have done some good, but we don’t need them anymore.
2- Although i Have done lots of work at VERY HOT enviroment No i have not cut Cania YET...i would like to know what good come from that to the DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
Yes you are not Dominican for sure, you are a tipi mate.
The DR is NOT the solution to Haiti's never ending problems!
100% agree with you!
GENEROSO is the same persons that GUILLERMONE!
altunbierno and the other is a lot of member of KKK !
they are here for divided!
Both of you barefoot tipi geniuses are correct about Guillermone and me being the same persons, we are twin brothers! Think alike, and are patriotic Dominicans that care about our country!
And surely don't want it ruined by the exporting and dumping of more Haitian untouchables, into the DR.
You already ruined and were successful making Haiti a failed state, and a ecological nightmare.
Stay in your barren land, Dominicans don't need, want or desire any more illegal Haitians!
Is that so hard to understand? What part of the word NO, is that you can not comprehend?
You are a racist person, you are rotten in your deep bone!
what you don't want is what you have!
you think you speak for all dominicans? I am not sure you are dominican! I am sure you are American, and one of your parents are HAITIANS!
because the haitian don't love your mother then you hate the haitians like that.
Trullo and Hitler is your god, you are frustraded, you are a shabby person!
It's sad to see you do a lot of shit in your Knickers when you see an haitian who face to you!
I have no respect for a man like you!
unhappy you work to have clone person like you in your country!
if that DR are become a great mess! more mess like palestine!
I believe you are right. To have a discussion about this topic, without it degenerating into a shouting match is almost impossible. With that said, here are my two cents…The advocates/sympathizers of the idea of unification and/or open borders, in order to improve Haiti's economic outlook, tend to interpret Dominican's refusal to this union, as evidence to an alleged collective denial of our African ancestry, racism and/or xenophobia. The implication being that, if Dominicans accepted their "blackness" then, we would be more accepting to the whole idea of unification and less incline to deport the illegal Haitian population. This, of course, is very subjective, and depending of who you talked to, some will agree and some will take offense. But regardless, what is clear is that between sovereign nations unification cannot be primary based on whether or not its population share the same skin color, but it should be based mainly on the economic gains that could be
From: United Kingdom
@ generoso, You're right for the first time, I'm not Dominican, I'm a human being first & foremost, who doesn't have a flag, who is not patriotic (a fancy word for a racist) and who treats other people as I want to be treated. I don't kiss the flag and get weak at the knees singing patriotic songs, I leave that to the war mongers and the haters. You need to get out a bid more, a little further afield than the US & DR, you might discover that a good portion of the globe have moved on from a slave mentality.
-----
I will then strongly suggest you that you keep hoping for world peace and singing KUMBAYA , you are MILES away from the REAL world, the world that io see EVERY DAY (pueblo nuevo includded) on DR and Santiago
Although I understand your analogy, I believe it does not accurately portrays the current state of Dominico-Haitian relations. The island is shared by two different and distinct societies with very few things in common. The challenges of border enforcement and the issues of illegal immigration are complex, expensive and well known. Good intentions, regardless of how desperate and unfortunate are the circumstances of the illegal immigrant, are not reasons enough to not enforce our laws.
Let me answer to you!
a lot of dominicans who have a lot of truck, it's normal to cross all days the border for give their products but when the same dominicans see they haitians do the same in DR but with less trucks, they dominicans are angry! all product who begin to have success in DR, make angry the dominicans, for they dominicans it's normal to send to haiti their products but it's not normal that HAITIANS MAKE THE SAME!
It's for that the dominicans a lot of time had try to forbide the truck haitians to cross the border for go to DR.
But the haitians did the same, and when each time they saw the haitians are angry and the lost a lot of money, they let haitian cross the border. But sometimes they refuse to the haitians to cross the border with their truck but the dominicans went to go to haiti to deverse their products.
It's not a story of racism but for answer to the dominicans!
THE HAITIANS ARE NOT dumb and idiot!
AHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
Little coward!
dominicans are.ha,ha,haaa..!!
If you and I met I'd do this to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ZG27-B1Yg
AHAHHAHA You make me laugh! you think all dominicans can win a fight against the haitians?
Come to haiti, and come in front of me! i will show you some technics for break your mouths and your arms more quickly than seagal!
coward guy!
Historically,we've always own you!
And if we meet I'm kicking your ass WITH YOUR OWN FOOT!!
AHAHHHAHAAHHAHHAHAHHA AND I STAY IN YOUR HEAD A THREAT FOR YOU!
Don't forget that, those you don't want it's what you want!
I break your loudmouth and make you respect your farther!
You guys are funny as hell. LOL
Thanks.