From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... ((You're blind to the fact that you're blind))
Oh Shet!!!! lol..... I foresee someone in the first dominican witness protection program.
Written by: curlando, 18 Nov 2011 5:28 PM
From: United States, Bronx
Next these Prosties will require the government to set up a retierment plan, Prosties of the month contest or traveling Prostie tour.
Written by: anthonyC, 18 Nov 2011 5:51 PM
From: United States
Written by: hernandez5482,
"Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire.."
WOW!!! Get some help!
Written by: riosm, 18 Nov 2011 5:55 PM
From: United States
LOL next they'll form a union with medical care....
From: United States, Haze gray, underway
Um, if a prostitute has AIDS, then she aint selling no goods.
From: United States
Prostitutes should be required to have health cards. If they have HIV they should not be out selling themselves. In the land of no laws though nothing will happen.
From: United States, Haze gray, underway
Veronica you are absolutely correct
From: United States
If a prostitute has HIV they should not be out selling themselves. If the police finds that they are selling themselves then they are outlaws and should be arrested and placed in a type of lock down facility or a forensic hospital for the criminally ill.
It all boils down to "Caveat Emptor" let the buyer beware.....
Written by: riosm, 18 Nov 2011 8:27 PM
From: United States
The real problem is....no prostitute will ever admit she has HIV, most customers will probably be too drunk and wouldn't even bother ask anyway.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE, CLEAN....BLANK.
Written by: underpar, 18 Nov 2011 9:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Morons are back! It simply continues to amaze me the comments on here!
Take a look at Europe its possibly to have a safe district for them and its not like the problem is going away wake up already you Morons just have no clue and live in your fantasy world!
From: Dominican Republic
Not in my neighborhood please.
From: United States
HIV is sometimes a good thing, hopefully it gets onto those corrup gov officials and those filthy police officers that rape them and steal their money.
and i see hernandez is a funny guy
Written by: hernandez5482, 18 Nov 2011 5:32 PM
From: United States
Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire..
reminds of this fella
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Parker_RayFrom: United States
Isantiago77 is a puta lover.
Why do you defend women who are the scum of the earth?
Save your energy and pity for the truly innocent and defenseless, like children, the elderly, the infirmed, the cripple and the abuse.
If a person decides to live an anti-social lifestyle, they should also pay the consequences and lie in the bed made.
A message to all the prostitutes, "You've made your bed, now lie in it."
But for how much?
From: United States
Written by: guillermone, 19 Nov 2011 1:34 AM
From: United States
Isantiago77 is a puta lover.
Why do you defend women who are the scum of the earth?
i didnt know u were retarded, but can you please copy and paste the part where i was defending them?
if i recall correctly i was talking about HIV and about a previous comment.
Written by: Trujillo, 19 Nov 2011 1:54 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Prostitution is illegal, yet this group exists. This country is messed up.
From: United States
Opps.............
sorry Dude, I was talking the the wrong guy.............
Written by: pelaut, 19 Nov 2011 9:04 AM
From: United States
Yeeesh! Look at that group. 6,000 more like those?
How can they possibly make any money?
Written by: Grosero, 19 Nov 2011 9:21 AM
From: United States
You Go Girl!
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 10:24 AM
From: Australia
raulm, well said and true, but don't expect agreement from Dominican machos.
Written by: raulm, 19 Nov 2011 10:58 AM
From: United States
Lots of families pimp there daughter's out. They must have a school for prositutes and girls who think they are slick, because they all do there sly stuff the same way and think everybody is dump.
From: United States
Although I agree with raulm, let us not forget there are still plenty of women who go out with men for love. Let us not be so cynical. I have been fortunate enough to have met plenty of them. The problem with us is that we are not patient enough to wait for the right catch. We want to get our piece of ass as soon as possible and then we complain. Well if you are 68 and dating a 23 year old please get off that cloud and put your two feet on the ground. Most likely, she aint with you for your spiritual qualities.
However, there are exceptions to ther rule. I remember a friend, 60 yrs old Pto Rican who met a beautiful 32 year old while on vacation in Cuba. He went through all the protocol, one year courtship, proposal and marriage. He paid and brought his mother in-law, step-daughter and father of the child to live in the US. Believe it or not she stay with him 10 years and the reason it did not last longer was because she died of cancer while in her 40's.The is one exception
From: United States
I, along with several other people, have just returned from our most recent trip to the Dominican.
The people, the island, and the culture have such potential. Unfortunately, the potential for this beautiful place will never, and I mean never, be realized until the prostitution industry is abolished or localized, i.e. red-light zones. The vultures who patronize these women and children are only demoralizing and demeaning the human race. Most of these women are simply trying to feed their
and provide for their families. The Dominican people, especially women and Christians, should stand strong against this continual battering of their culture.
A much more friendly family-oriented vacation spot would easily replace the jobs lost by these poorly treated women.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 12:26 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,
Agreed, some valid points from your examples.
It is a mater of matching needs with what is brought to the table (on in this case, the bed).
Providing financial security in exchange for meeting other needs is fine if no one is being cheated. As a general rule, the more happiness you bring, the more you receive. There are some sad stories and some happy ones. I have never been interested in the services of a prostitute, however they meet a need for some and they should be protected and appropriately remunerated. It seems to me those who have the strongest objection to prostitution either have nothing to sell, or can't afford to buy. The church objects to any form of sexual gratification that does not have the potential to expand their flock of tithe-payers or choir-boys.
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera
I find it hard to understand some of the comments in here. I don't believe any women chooses prostitution because she wants to be a prostitute. It is forced upon her because either her family, ie parents push her into it to gain money to survive or because she has no other way of earning a living. It goes back to lack of education of course. Unable to read, write or add up what else can she do for money. Those really at fault are those who place her in this situation to begin with and then exploit her for their own benefit, the pimps and, as mentioned in the article, the military officers and no doubt politicians who own "massage parlors" cabanas, or simple take advantage of her because of their position of power.
The answer is to provide a decent level of education and the opportunity to be able to find normal work. I'm quite sure given that the vast majority of these women would not be on the streets but able to live a normal decent life.
From: United States
Adrian what you say is BS and a cop out for anti-social behavior. People choose what they want to do, no one forces them unless they become victim of white slavery. Now that is a whole other issue. But the vast majority of women who are protitutes practice the profession willingly. The causes and motives are varied, but a lack of education is no excuse. Cuba has the best, most well educated prostitutes in the western hemisphere and aparently education has not been a a deterrent to practice this criminalized profession.
Why cant just people say it as it is? Que son ratera, sin verguensas y vagabundas...!!!
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
@ Adrian-take a look at the caliber of women on this wonderful website SeekingArrangement.com and come again with your analysis.
Written by: matador, 19 Nov 2011 3:15 PM
From: United States, www.brugal-ron.com/home.php
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera
@PatDiamond I don't really see the comparison here. Those on that website are not offering themselves on the street for a few pesos with whatever man is willing to pay. They are looking for a "relationship" of sorts with one person in exchange for being financially rewarded. Not much different to many women who stay with their partner only for the financial security it provides and they consider that a better arrangement than prostitution in it's generally accepted terminology.
@guillermone...notice I did also say "able to find normal work" I still hold that most prostitutes, given the option, would choose a normal life and employment over having sex with whatever man is willing and able to buy their services. There are exceptions of course and no doubt a few women do enjoy the lifestyle but I suspect they are more astute than most and more choosy over who they pick up and for a much higher price than those on the street.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 4:14 PM
From: Australia
The important distinction is whether the relationship is mutually exclusive or not. It is assumed that a prostitute has many partners, and a spouse has only one. A third arrangement seems to be common in the Dominican Republic. The man has one wife and one or more mistresses, however they are expected to remain faithful to him. They may or may not be aware of each other. If he is able provide all their material, sexual and emotional needs then that's okay however I doubt if many women are happy in such an arrangement.
Written by: riosm, 19 Nov 2011 4:34 PM
From: United States
Good point made...
Some woman in the DR don't even care about the other woman as long as there needs are meet, as they "what goes around comes around". "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".
What's hilarious is most men in the DR feel prev ledge to have the extra on the side but hate the idea of their woman to do like wise.
Written by: RonEvane 
, 19 Nov 2011 8:15 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
@Adrian.
Have to agree with you that the main reason for prostituting oneself has more to do with the inability to find decent work than choosing the lifestyle.
In my eyes, selling oneself equals slavery and brutality. This is a last-ditch effort to survive. I know most wouldn't given a viable alternative.
I don't feel they are "the scum of the earth", as some here have declared. These are desperate women without skills or any form of education who have no other way to feed their children.
I pity them and blame the govt for failure to provide enough $$ for decent schooling and their disdain for the basic needs of the people.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 8:35 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
I was wondering how you have such insight into the inner thoughts and motivation of prostitutes. The reality is, some women chose prostitution in countries where there is a good education and welfare system. I don't know why, but perhaps it is because they can earn much more money than in a "normal" job? It may be a government's responsibility to provide adequate free education, but not other basic living needs.
Written by: RonEvane , 19 Nov 2011 9:12 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Totally agree, Mr. Roy. But other countries with good education and welfare give their women a choice and those who choose to be prostitutes do so for exactly the reason you stated. "perhaps it is because the can earn more money than in a 'normal' job". True enough. The difference in DR is that the lack of resources there, FORCES them into slavery.There is no welfare. Nothing to fall back on.
In Amsterdam, for instance, they have a much greater control over the situation. They're not pimped, abuse, raped or robbed. And they can move on to another line of work, if they choose to.
No such thing in DR...Pity!
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 9:27 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
I agree it is a tragedy when women have no choice, and downright criminal if they are under age. However it is relevant that in this country, far more women are choosing to get a university education than the men, so perhaps they will have more options than their brothers, some who will turn to crime.
Regardless, having a regulated, safe area for prostitutes to work can only be better for them.
Written by: RonEvane , 19 Nov 2011 11:14 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Yes, true. If prostitution is regulated, women protected and relegated to certain areas, It can only be good for everyone.
Quote: "Sexual workers' leader demands that the government, business leaders and other sectors, establish a training center with educative and social programs to benefit that population with other alternatives to make a living"
No doubt many would opt for "alternatives to make a living", if given the chance.
I'm happy to learn that more and more women are choosing to educate themselves. Perhaps some day they can become self-reliant and avoid being victims of abusers in the form of macho low-lifes.
We need more women in power to rule and set us on a less crooked path to democracy and prosperity.
Written by: RoyStone, 19 Nov 2011 11:41 PM
From: Australia
I am very suspicious of Montero's reasons for opposing the proposal. If police are already exploiting the prostitutes then legalization and monitoring should reduce not exacerbate the problem. Also opposing health checks is just absurd. I think she has a hidden agenda.
As for women in power, I think that feisty young chief magistrate in Santiago would be a good stater. She has shown she has the courage to convict major criminals that others have not dared to.
From: United States
The idea that women choose or resort to prostitution due to a lack of opportunities or because they are desparate, we then should feel sorry for them is a bad argument. I guess everyone who is desparate and lack opportunity should resort to crime.
Yes, I was desparate enough that I felt compeled to go rob a bank. I was so damn desparate and lacked education that the next best thing for me to do is become a burglar, better yet let steal money from some one off the street. But please have pity, feel sorry for me, my lack of resources, FORCES me to do what I do not want to do.There is no welfare. Nothing for me to fall back on so therefore I should just go do a hold-up at gun point.
Written by: williom, 20 Nov 2011 3:08 AM
From: United States
guillermone: Say what? I hope you're not implying that Prostitution is a crime like robbing a bank. Prostitution is NOT a crime. Let me explain:
Prostitution is only a "sin" when the televangelist gets caught. PERIOD. If it weren't for these stupid religious nuts spewing their retarded views onto our societies, prostitution would be just like any other professions out there. Look at a female porn star who generally makes more money than the male counterpart! Is she committing a crime on camera? Oh, maybe she is not -because the performing male is not the one paying or they are both being paid?
Now, if I am a VERY ugly, mentally/physically challenged young man who had no chance of getting a date to hopefully getting lucky, wouldn't it be easier for me to just pay for sex? Wham, Bam! Oh, thank you! Can I get a 10% discount next time, please? Instead, would you rather see me live the rest of my life sexually frustrated because I did not have the guts to [help] commit that crime?
Written by: williom, 20 Nov 2011 3:11 AM
From: United States
Religions use sex, the most natural and universal act, to contribute to humanity downfall. See how the Muslim world treats sex and females -to a point where oppressed females burn themselves to death. What do you have: Sexually depraved priests with young boys -- Horny young Muslim boys with the promise of 72 virgins? Cliché!
It all comes down to Religion. Religious freaks become or influence the lawmakers who fight for the wrong causes. Therefore, WOMEN and freethinkers should equally be in power to hopefully fight for the right causes --at least, to keep things really "fair and balanced".
"Symbolically eating that body of Christ" crap should be a crime -not PROSTITUTION.
From: United States, I dont even live inside a house , I haunt one!
Written by: hernandez5482,
"Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire.."
I am voting for hernandez has president if he ever runs , I think we found the solution lol
Written by: williom, 20 Nov 2011 11:05 AM
From: United States
Yes- It was too strong to not be sarcasm.
Yet- I still feel like yelling out my frustration. We're reaching the end of 2011, and the following still frustrates me when people still fail to see this:
((
Failed state, f**ked-up religion. They go hand in hand. Over-population, injustice, poverty, ignorance and the oppression of women - the hallmarks of Christianity and Islam.
))
Now, is the comment right above this one sarcasm too? It is STRONG.
Written by: RoyStone, 20 Nov 2011 11:18 AM
From: Australia
williom,
Politically incorrect but not sarcasm. I'm serious - deadly serious. Anyone who disagrees is either a deluded idiot, or selling the stuff.
From: United States
Roy-Yes, your appraisal of what I meant is exactly correct. Although, I do believe prositution does serve a function in society, I just don't buy the argument which attempts to justify that females take this route as an option of last resort. There is always an alternative for everything no matter what and when one door closes, another one will open.
Human nature is such that when things get rough, the tendency is to take the road of least resistance. And prostitution has the characteristic of being quick, profitable and relatively painless. After the transaction is consumated, services performed, money exchanged, everyone is happy. There is no harm done, nothing that in most cases a little soap and water cant fix. Unfortunately, prostitution regardless of how benign is high risk like Russian roulette. You keep putting that gun in your head and eventually it gets blown off.
Written by: williom, 20 Nov 2011 11:47 AM
From: United States
((There is always an alternative for everything no matter what and when one door closes, another one will open.))
The problem is that the doors were never there. Someone has to break down the wall and make at least an opening. Tell the corrupt officials, religious nuts that are selling ignorance to stay clear off the wall so that the people can help put holes in the wall and bring up doors...
Written by: bienamor, 20 Nov 2011 12:14 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Prostitution is not illegal in the DR. Pimping on the other hand is illegal.
If the cops are already abusing the girls, its not going to get better only worse.
In Amsterdam the police are not abusing the girlsthereforere it works. It wont work here.
I know one worker that is certified in windows EXCEL WORD aPower Pointint, she chooses to be a prostitute, as she can make more money, and not have to work 5 days a week.
Most of Cabanasbañs Chinesenese owned.
There are not enoughtouristursit in the DR to support all ofCabanasbañas and prostitutes on the island. The girls have far Dominican clients that tourists
From: United States
william-I totally disagree. The doors are there and have always been there. It is you who wishes to close the eyes and not see it open. You have given us only excuses and no real or valid motives. There is no justification to select prostitution as a way of life unless it is strictly motivated by personal choice.
Just read the statement by bienamor, he stated quite clearly,"know one worker that is certified in windows EXCEL WORD aPower Pointint, she chooses to be a prostitute, as she can make more money, and not have to work 5 days a week."
You get the picture? Personal choice is the norm and not the exception.
There is opportunity in adversty, one just need to know how to seize the moment. But few are those who prefer to take the road less traveled.
Written by: prmilv, 20 Nov 2011 2:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Currently eight out of Nevada's 16 counties have active brothels (these are all rural counties). As of June/July 2008, 28 LEGAL brothels existed in Nevada.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevadaaverage salary for a dominican 7000 pesos per month.
a girl makes 1000-3000 for ONE night with a Gringo...
Why do they CHOSE this line of work??
Most Dominican Girls love sex and money...
I am American and I have lived here for 5 years.
I am not here because the weather is good or I like the beer.
You have great weather in Florida and more than two beers to chose from.
Prostitution is LEGAL in the DR. Pimping is illegal.
THEY WAY IT SHOULD BE...
Only the girl should make money...
Can someone please tell me the world oldest profession..
From: United States
In life, there are two paths available to each of us. Which path we travel is determined entirely by our own actions, our decisions, and our priorities. It is decided by our character – the ability to make the right choice, even if it is not the easy choice.
Written by: RonEvane , 20 Nov 2011 3:22 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone. What freaking doors are you talking about??Opportunities in DR are far and few between! Heck, even qualified, university grads find it hard to get decent work. There are no" doors" to speak of.
According to the CIA world factbook, in 2007, the unemployment rate was 30.3%. And expenditure in education was 2.30% of GDP in 2009, well behind the likes of Chad, Uganda, Niger, Togo, Togo?, Senegal and Burundi which spent 8.30% in 2009.
The overwhelming reason for prostitution and crime, is the large number of poor and destitute people that figured to be 35.4% in 2010
I wish you could explain to me where poor, uneducated people can find "doors" to go through!
From: Dominican Republic, calle A.Portes
I am always amazed that men do nearly all the talking when it comes to women having an abortion or having sex for money ,,I prefer to leave these matters mainly to those who are directly involved
Written by: riosm, 20 Nov 2011 4:58 PM
From: United States
Ricardolito,
Good point but consider the following......Men are willing to pay for the sex services in the first place "A$$ on demand" and men pregnant women, now having said that how about.....if a woman chooses this type of work for the money and let's also say she enjoys her job it should be her own choosing.
If a man does impregnate a women in the DR two of the following happens the man Man's-up and takes responsibility or abandons the whole situation which would leave the woman to work harder to make ends meet, problem is woman age, get flabby plus competition with younger girls.
In the U.S if a man impregnates a woman and the woman decides to keep the child the man gets hit with child support or she depends on the welfare system [Obama's Mommas] for survival.
America's hoods are full of the latter mentioned, we even have a sub-cultural that thrives on this it's expressed and promoted in our gansta rap crap music.
Proof of morals are gone out the window.
From: United States
RonEvane-"What freaking doors are you talking about??Opportunities in DR are far and few between! Heck, even qualified, university grads find it hard to get decent work. There are no doors.."
Ron you speak words of a loser.......There are opportunities everywhere and anywhere you go. If you can't find them, then you make the opportunities for yourself. If life is sour and gives you lemons, you make lemondade. I can give hundres of examples of people with a winner mentality that have come from extreme poverty and became extremely successful in the poor country of the DR. People like you preach words of defeat and state that there is no opportunity, there are no doors to open, there is no hope and this is the mentality that drive women to pursue prostitution as an alternative solution to life's problems.
We have seen plenty of foreigners that come flat broke to live in the DR and see opportunity where others don't and over the years became rich. I have seen it time and time agai
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 12:38 AM
From: United States
Guillermone- You write like a motivational writer. It all feels ...well, very motivating. BUT, you fail to realize that the world is also full of averages and below averages, the less fortunates and the dirt poors. You can give examples of tons of friends, families, encounters that made lemonade out of lemons. What about the ones that do NOT have the lemons, cannot afford the pot, cannot get readily potable water? Oh, the Sugar!
Yesterday morning, I took a friend to the NJ airport to Port-au-Prince. His luggage was 58 pounds -so 8 over the limit. He had to open it up to take something out. He took out 7 pounds of a grocery bag and handed it to me to take back. When I felt a bunch of balls around my fingers, shockingly I said: Dude, these are lemons. He answered: Lemons are scarce and extremely expensive in Haiti. He then took out a can of lemon powder and put it in his handbag. TRUE story!
......
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 12:43 AM
From: United States
......
Lemons from NJ to that part of a tropical island? How do you become an entrepreneur out of that? I know we are not talking about Haiti here, and this particular experience may be better in the DR. Yet, the overall circumstances have to be somewhat similar. Let's say DR has about 3 million young people ready to make things happen. If there are doors, they are obviously all closed especially to them. Now, how the heck do they get the keys?
Please, do NOT tell me the keys are on some hooks by the closed doors, and all they would have to do is: REACH OUT!
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
With each day that passes things go from bad to worse in my country. It saddens me to see that some of my compatriots show sympathy for these amoral beings that degrade our society. Ever asked yourselves what has kept DR from further social development besides political ineptitude and corruption? The answer is the deterioration of our core moral and family values. We have had incompetent government all throughout our history, but what has kept us going is the righteousness and hard work of the lower classes. When our morals, self value, love for one another and country have vanished; what’s left? A third world country that no one wants anything to do with. When people read the news papers and read articles like this it presents a terrible image.
From: United States
Let me tell you something william-I am a college graduate, speak perfect English, well traveled, open minded, honest and hard worker, but my achievements were slightly better then average. I mean I was doing OK, but nothing to rave about, until one day I woke up and realized that my education, skills and industriousness was irrelevant. What I had to change was a mindset imprinted by loving parents who grew up poor, meant well but had no concept of prosperity. Here I was this middle class person with a poor man's mentality. I finally realized the difference when I was hired as operations manager by these two relatively uneducated Dominican men who own a world wide exporting company. These two partners among other things own a cargo airline, a whole sale truck dealer, restaurants, tobacco farms and a vast real estate porfolio. Yet these men had limited education, grew up dirlt poor in the Dominican countryside and were barely literate in Spanish and hardly spoke English.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
To the person that gave me the minus. My comment was not meant to offend anyone; i speak my mind and will not apologize for it.
From: United States
The point to the story is that no matter how bad things get, there is always another option other then to sell your body. I just don't buy the argument that it is due to a lack of opportunity. There is no justification to degrade oneself down to the lowest common denominator
The ability to acquire fast easy money is too much of a draw for many females who are in dire financial straights. Today more then ever before making the decision to become a women of the night or its derivatives is much easier then ever before, because moral standards and values have diminished, almost disappeared in some cases, where society no longer frowns upon those who seek this alternative vocation.
Written by: Nehesy, 21 Nov 2011 1:24 PM
From: France, London / Paris
I guess poverty is the biggest issue, but when an adult woman goes to that path to get better clothes, a better mobile phone , feed all the family (mum, dad who keep the children..) , buying a terreno or finishing her house :
There is also something wrong about the morals , when they call this activity " mi trabajo" .
Some will fight and work as maids, or send pirates DVD or CD in the streets/beaches ( I respect them and support them with all my heart)
It's not proper to the DR because Europe is full of that Kind and sometimes even legally like in Holland or Germany. In France it's forbidden but they caught many politics with such girls . Dominique Strauss Kahn for instance has some issues with French justice these last days, French CEOs in North of France used to hire such girls for politics pleasures..
In Ukraine, it has been estimated than 1 billion dollars is got from the work of these women
Anyway a man who marries such girls is weak and has no brain...
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 1:27 PM
From: United States
guillermone- You made your point, and I like it a lot. That was one heck of dedicated business men who HIRED you. Now, if you were to go to a DR city and gather 5000 of young beautiful ladies, what exactly would you tell them? Last time I checked, honorable positions like police officers, nurses do NOT make enough money to live somewhat comfortably in the DR. Plus, it can't be that easy for most of them to be nurses.
Lack of opportunities caused mostly by corrupt and incompetent government is also the main cause of the poor's man mentality. People tend to be discouraged, unmotivated, and downright lazy. I bet you if somehow we get rid of the deep rooted corruption, the Dominican mindset would drastically change -PRODUCTIVELY.
OK- I bought a very productive piece of software for US$20 back in 1998 that I constantly use to this day -even the same version. I liked it so much and became extremely proficient at it that I joined its forums to help out others.
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 1:32 PM
From: United States
There was one user who would love to have a cheaper version. I posted: "C'mon! It's only $20 for something that does so much." And, I totally regretted this comment to this day - 13 years later.
Why? Because the software could only be $1, there is somebody somewhere who would love to have it, but cannot afford that dollar. It could be free, and somebody cannot afford the bandwidth to download it. When someone finally has it, the electricity cannot stay on long enough for him to learn it. Some bad power surge just blew up someone's computer. By the time he saves up for that $20, other top priorities took over. That's what lack of opportunities is all about.
Like I said: I totally understand and respect your opinion. And the point I am trying to make is that:
In a country like DR, I still fail to see open doors for the 5000 beautiful senoritas.
From: United States
I would tell those girls never to give up hope and to keep on trying. That life is suppose to be hard, difficult, full of hurdles, eventhough it was meant to be pleasurable real life is never an easy task. That what we must do is develop is our inner strengths, those intangibles things from within. One of them is the ability to overcome challenges. It is what life is all about and the better we get at it the more successful we shall become. Avoid anything and everything illegal, because once you get the taste of gain through illicit means we become entrap in a vicious cycle that will be next to impossible to get out. All things are possible to those who believe but we must start believing in ourselves.
From: United States
Success is failure turned inside out--
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far,
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit--
It's when things seem worst that you must not quit
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 2:55 PM
From: United States
Yes, and yes! Very nice, indeed! Just like I expected, you are a motivational speaker. That would work just fine in the USA.
The reality is: Beautiful speeches do not necessarily open up doors in countries like the DR. In Haiti, it's even 50 times worse.
((That life is suppose to be hard, difficult, full of hurdles))
Their lives are ALWAYS hard, difficult, full of hurdles with no light at the narrow end of the "funnel" that they are all trying to get out of at the same time.
From: United States
Ok........I also see your point but what is your advice what is the alternative ? Prostitution?
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
Cuba suffered the same as us with these problems when Batista was in power, bu the revolution took care of it.. Maybe we need a revolution and a true one.
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 3:47 PM
From: United States
No. Prostitution is there and will always be there. Some love it. The movie star Lawrence Fishburne's daughter Montana enjoys being a porn star -certainly not out of necessity nor lack of opportunity.
I already mentioned: It's the corrupt government's best interest to keep the public stupid. A new revolution like Occupy Santo Domingo would be a start. A total new reform must be in order. But, I still do not see that happening with the mentality of resignation that has now becoming a norm.
If you have just one leader trying to do it, you definitely know that some strange robbery would take place at a stop light... It requires a collective effort because it would be hard to assassinate 3 million people fervently asking for change.
I am not condoning violence, but people would certainly get killed in the process. When that happens, a door squeaks open. Many doors will follow.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
I spend hours sometimes talking to my old man regarding DR and we both agree that nothing will change until people become aware of what is happening in the country. Our people are walking with blindfolds on, they can't see clearly and it all comes down to education. Country folks know nothing of politics and how a state or nation works which allows the politicians to exploit their ignorance. It is sad that most Dominicans cannot read properly, cannot speak Spanish correctly nor have the ability to critically analyze or comprehend what is going on. Education is not a priority to our government and there is a reason, ignorant people are easy to fool.
Written by: RonEvane , 21 Nov 2011 6:07 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Success is failure turned inside out"
"The point to the story is that no matter how bad things get, There are always other options than to sell your body".
Nice words indeed! And I agree with you that certain people rise up from utter poverty with seemingly little to speak of.
I have a cousin in DR, who made it by putting himself through school without any one's help.
He worked for peanuts to pay his tuition, and never wavered. Today, he owns huge real state, including a "finca" which produces ornamental plants for export to Europe.
On the other hand, I had a relatively wealthy life-long friend whose son, in spite all he had, shunned school and turned to drugs and alcohol and died very young. My friend has been reeling ever since. Even after 11 years, he mourns his son still. --His business collapsed, his wife divorced him and took mostly all he owned. Including a very nice house. The poor guy lost all motivation and drinks every day.
continued....
Written by: RonEvane , 21 Nov 2011 6:21 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
...My point is this: Whether a person succeeds or not, it's all in the head. Some people get far on sheer determination. Others have it and don't appreciate it. Others, still, have it and lose it because of circumstances. Others never had the will or knowledge to make a dent in their situation. These are the people who see no other way to feed themselves and children and turn to prostitution and crime as the only way out.
We need to understand that people's brains don't think the same, hence we all see life from different perspectives. You can try to motivate all you want, but if they don't want it or "get" what you mean, it's all dust in the wind.
So, Mr. Guillermone, You claim to see opportunities where others can't, and it won't be because they are deaf and dumb, it's because they're unmotivated and uneducated.
Written by: RoyStone, 21 Nov 2011 6:52 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
Some very valid points and well presented. Thank you for your contribution.
My point is, lack of education is both a cause, and an effect. Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor. Bad government I believe is more an effect than a cause.
The important question is, how can the cycle be broken? Good school lunches is not the answer. There are some glaring problems that need to be fixed, urgently, like run-away population-explosion, crime-rates and destruction of the environment. Otherwise there will be no money for school lunches or new classrooms. Modernity a Metro and a newer iPhone can wait.
Written by: riosm, 21 Nov 2011 6:59 PM
From: United States
Sorry folks......but I was blocked again.
MINUS FOUL LANGUAGE, INSULTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS.
Looks like nobody wants to hear the truth any more.
Written by: RonEvane , 21 Nov 2011 9:34 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"My point is, lack of education is both cause, and effect. Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor"
Exactly, this is what I've been trying to bring across, Roy.
It is glaringly obvious to me that, in essence, the culprit for most of what ails us today, is the passive role our govt plays in this scenario towards education. It is the biggest reason we're as screwed up as much as we are! Most people here blame the prevailing aptitude with most Dominicans when it comes to schooling, and that is wrong!. The very reason why we (or they), don't stress as much or fight as much for better funding our educational system, is because they, themselves, did not have the privilege to expand their mind through education! You see what I mean? Most just don't know!
How can anyone understand something they're not exposed to?
Bad govt is both an effect and a cause. Greedy, indifferent and irresponsible govt, begets crime, prostitution and poverty, multiplied exponentially.
From: United States
I find many coments bad to woman and they hurt my sisters.I no many DR girls have sex with US man for money and gift. I no why they becum prostitutes. DR girls are human to but poor and they no like sex more than any other countrys girls just they fake for the money from the US old men or rich DR man. It sad and I love my godbut he not like way girls do this.Rich girl in US who pretty not have to do horid things to men that degrade girl.
Written by: RonEvane , 21 Nov 2011 10:02 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Had I not the privilege of emigrating to the US, I would not have been exposed to good schools and the knowledge it imparts.
I'm not saying I know much, I'm saying, I would have probably not learned (somewhat), the best language in the world nor had access to money for college, or had experienced a much different world here or had access to great book stores.(ever heard of Barnes and Noble?). Etc.
Had I not left the DR, it would have been a very different life for me.
And this is what I'm trying hard to get across. If you're not exposed to a good thing, You don't know what you're missing.
This is, essentially, my contention for funding education as it should be in the DR. It is said: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". I've seen a lot of evidence of wasted minds in this forum. Some just can't get it!
Written by: williom, 21 Nov 2011 10:08 PM
From: United States
hernandez- Yep! You got it. A+
RonEvane- Thank you so, so much for your last comment. You said it beautifully:
((
How can anyone understand something they're not exposed to?
Bad govt is both an effect and a cause. Greedy, indifferent and irresponsible govt, begets crime, prostitution and poverty, multiplied exponentially.
))
Written by: RonEvane , 21 Nov 2011 11:17 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Blackopal. You're not fooling me. Anyone who can come up with words such as "horrid" (although you purposely misspelled it), and "degrade", Surely will know how to spell "know" instead of "no". That and your perfect punctuation, tells me you're portraying yourself to be someone you're not. So cut the crap! you're bothering me. Is that you Roy?
Written by: RoyStone, 22 Nov 2011 8:21 PM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
No, Blackopal is not me, however I too was wondering if he or she is an imposter. The language reminds me of the Black & White Minstrel Show; white men pretending to be funny Southern "Ni@@ers."
From: United States
"Modernity a Metro and a newer iPhone can wait."
I totally agree, with this and I also agree with "Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor."
(continued)
From: United States
Nevertheless, no matter how important and vital education, it is being oversold as a panacea, a cure-it all for societies ills. I continue to insist that we must first change the mindset or "attitude" before we can fully concentrate on education or perhaps simultaneously work on both.
US President Calvin Coolidge said it best:
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 12:26 AM
From: Australia
guillermone,
A graduate with an MBA was bragging about his siblings - "John has a law degree, Mary also has a MBA and Fred a PhD in Philosophy. However Peter the black-sheep of the family, has got a job."
By education I mean much more than academic qualifications. Education is what you're left with when you've forgotten everything you have learned. It is not so much the information but the process that makes one a better citizen, partner, parent and bread-winner, I think.
Perhaps Dominican disinterest in education is a symptom of a deeper problem? Could that be attitude? Hard work, thrift, justice and modesty don't rate too high either. Materialism, self-indulgence and vanity rate pretty highly.
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 12:31 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"I spend hours sometimes talking to my old man regarding DR and we both agree that nothing will change until people become aware of what is happening in the country. Our people are walking with blindfolds on, they can't see clearly and it all comes down to education"
That is so f#$$%^ing right, Hernandez!
Some here insist, this is a question of culture or mind-set. I won't name names, alright, I will: Guillermone, Dread and Roy.( All candidates for the coveted designation of our next Antichrist),
proclaim, our precious DR, as present location of everything representing evil incarnate! As far as they see it, no amount of prayer nor the second coming of our Lord, Jesus, will prevent Armageddon from obliterating our Eden!.... Begone from me Devils!!!
From: United States
RonEvane-Colombia and Mexico are two countries with a very high cultural level, a well educated population, among the highest literacy rates you can find, yet are two of the most violent most corrupt in Latin America.
Now show, prove and explain to me how education alone will be the cure for the Dominican Republic.
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 2:13 AM
From: United States
hernandez: (( Maybe we need a revolution and a true one. ))
williom: (( A new revolution like Occupy Santo Domingo would be a start. A total new reform must be in order. ))
hernandez said it. I said it -explicitly. How is that totally being ignored? Do you want me spell it out?
ok- I am:
R.E.V.O.L.U.T... Ah, nevermind!
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 2:34 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone. If you think education matters not, then, I can't see how I can possibly dialogue with you, Sir... in order to understand anything at all, we, humans, firstly need to know what we're up against, where we are, and where we're going. Then we can formulate a course of action!
The first thing in resolving a problem is to fully understand what the problem really is!! Y'all insist on cultural traditions being a rigid set of rules without room for flexibility. That isn't so!
"Now prove to me how education alone will cure the Dominican Republic."
Are you serious? Education is all there is to solving all the worlds ills! It is called Science, sir. it is called, know-how. It is called,being able to distinguish right from wrong! It is called, knowing which way to go depending on circumstances! Geez! Have you not heard the expression: "Knowledge is power"?
Now, I have a question for you: If not education alone, then, what do YOU think will cure DRs predicaments? Huh?
From: United States
I agree with RonEvane. You hit the nail with the hammer!
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 8:29 AM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
You are, of course, absolutely correct about education and science being fundamental to, as you put it, cure DRs predicaments. I would go further and say it is essential for the survival of humanity, which looks unlikely they way we're going now.
However there is one thing even more fundamental that must happen first - open eyes and ears.
DR is a fundamentally Christian country. Actually knowing the contents of the Buy-Bull is not a requirement (in fact actively discouraged by the Catholic clergy, except the bits that are useful to them). However faith, blind faith, is essential, and the only thing that can keep you from the fires of hell, and grant you entrance to paradise, for ever.
Blind faith, by it's very nature, is immune to logic and evidence. The solution? I wish I knew, but until one is found, the rest is academic (no pun intended).
From: United States
RonEvane-As usual with close minded people like yourself, you took my statement out of context and focused on merely one specific sentence without fully understanding the total meaning of what I attempted to convey. You overlooked one word in each sentence and because of that changed the meaning and missed the point. You read only what you wanted to read. You need to go back and slowly re-read my posts and make a sincere effort to comprehend the concept I wish to impress. It seems as though you continue to make a baseless argument unrelated my message. In no way shape or form did I undermind the value of an education. And I don't know where you got the idea I or (we) insist on "cultural traditions." WTF is all that about? Where did I state anything about that? I see that you have failed to to grasp the issue. Please be more flexible and stop being subjective, try to make a sincere effort to see the point of view and leave your one track mind, sort of mule like attitude at home
From: United States
RonEvane-
"Have you not heard the expression: "Knowledge is power"?"
WRONG.........................You are WRONG.............!!!!
Have you not heard that knowledge is useless and even detrimental if not properly used?
It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather "Applied Knowledge."
Remember, and I repeat knowledge ALONE is not power. It's applied knowledge and the word ALONE is what you missed in my previous post. When I mention that education ALONE will not solve problems for the DR, that is what I meant, but you were too busy trying to prove me wrong that you missed it.
First, individuals like yourself need to change their belief systems that knowledge is power to applied knowledge is power. So this all falls back to what I have repeatedly said, that we need to change attitudes and mentality first before we can place all of our energy and efforts only and exclusively on education.
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 10:45 AM
From: Australia
blackopal,
If your god that you love doesn't like prostitution as you claim, why doesn't he get rid of it? After all if he created this entire universe and everything in it in just six days, and can listen to and consider 7 billion prayers at once, surely he could find alternative employment for your "sisters" in a flash?
The answer is blindingly obvious - "he" only exists in the deluded minds of idiots, and the business-plans of the god-shop owners, and agendas of the controllers of the masses pushing it.
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." Matthew 21:21-22
Obviously Jesus lied, or never existed. I'll put my money on the latter. One little prayer from you could prove me wrong. Do it if you can!
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
Guillermone, Ron, Roy, Williom
In today’s world in order for a person to become knowledgeable, that person has to become literate first. And I mean the basics; know how to read and write and fundamental mathematics. Acquire analytical skills and expose oneself at some level to the technologies available today and then one can move on to attain knowledge in whatever area of interest. You cannot pursue a career in engineering, architecture or medicine if the quality of elemental education you got is not up to the necessary level. That is why investing the legally appointed portion of national budget in education is so crucial for the development of a better society in DR.
From: United States
Hernanez5484-But of course we need literacy, an educated population is important and no doubt will help make a better world. All I am saying is that education is valueless unless we change the fundamentals of the inner self. I believe that we have heard far too long the argument that education is the solution to all our ills and reality has demonstrated the contrary. What I am saying is that Education is over rated. What I am NOT saying that it is not important, What I do insist is that yes we need it, but we also need something else in addition to education.
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 11:12 AM
From: Australia
Dominicans seem more interested in the schools feeding and clothing their kids than educating them.
From: United States
Roy mentioned something about hard work, thrift, justice and modesty and the rejection of materialism, self-indulgence and vanity. The acquisition of values, principles, character and ethics, these are things not learned in books or school.
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 12:12 PM
From: United States
I never thought we were solely talking about books and school. It goes with 5 steps:
1. A revolution to get rid of ALL corrupt officials. Voting them out will NOT work when the entire system is corrupt. He's the president. His wife is the vice-presidential candidate. Please!?
2. After that revolution, a focused program on education for the masses:
-- a. In the form of school and books to acquire valuable skills to succeed in life. Technical training to some - PhD to others
-- b. The use of available media (TV, Radio, Internet, Highway Billboards, Pamphlets in waiting areas) to INFORM (educate) the masses that their current mindset is not compatible to progress. When hope is clearly present, the people will change and will not litter.
......
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 12:14 PM
From: United States
......
3. Now, the third is important and very controversial. Use the available media to CONVINCE (educate) the people to get rid of that God and Jesus nonsense that's notoriously known to impede progress. There is a great change that the MESSAGE will go through people under 30.
4. Have clear instructions that TRANSPARENCY must be forced at all times with mandatory communal meetings throughout the year and throughout the entire region.
5. Find a way to get step 3 to work.
From: United States
#3-CONVINCE (educate) the people to get rid of that God and Jesus nonsense that's notoriously known to impede progress.
Oh really..............Well Cuba and the Soviet Union did a great job after they got rid of God and took religion out of the equation and the United States is following the same trend and we are also doing one hell of a job as well.
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 12:40 PM
From: United States
USA puts in "In God We Trust", and it's falling behind since. That's exactly what happens. You know about Cuba and the embargo, and don't even go there...
South Korea gets it, and dem Kia and Hyundai are all over the place.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
I didn’t mean to imply that education alone can resolve all of our issues, but it will in fact create the foundation on which we can continue to build. Take the political issues for instance; when it comes to choosing our leaders, usually people sell their votes to the highest bidder without taking under consideration the long term effects of their decision. What education will offer the people is awareness of the system and how that political system currently operates in DR in comparison to an ideal one; maybe with a higher level of consciousness we can make better choices.
When I read this article I thought these women feel that they have no other choice than to sell their bodies for money. I am sure these women are from poor barrios and have very little formal education, because if they did, I am sure they would have found another alternative to improve their financial adversity.
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 12:49 PM
From: Australia
USA put in "In God We Trust"right where God wants it ....
on the money!
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 12:53 PM
From: United States
hernandez- You made your point a long time ago. And you are still making it.
Roy- You are always on the money.
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 1:04 PM
From: Australia
hernandez5482,
You want Dominican's to consider the long-term when voting? You heretic!
The Bible says not to worry about tomorrow, Jesus will look after it. Live for today and trust in him.
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
Luke 12:24
Written by: RoyStone, 23 Nov 2011 1:42 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,
If you had even been to the former Soviet Union you would know they never got rid of God - they just put more money in education and were the only country to match USA in science, clearly illustrated in the space race.
In contrast, North Korea puts it faith in their God, - Kim Il-sung (God the father - in heaven) and Kim Jong-il (God the son sent to earth for the salvation of God's chosen people). Blasphemy (criticism of God) can lead to torture, imprisonment or death. Sounds familiar? A wonderful Theocracy!
The Chinese don't have faith in God and they are forging ahead socially, economically, and are now moving up in the space race.
The Japanese don't believe in God - since they stopped believing in their deity, Emperor Hirohito and look how they've progressed since then.
USA has dropped God? Christian fundamentalism or Evangelism is on the increase, yet USA is declining socially and economically.
Meanwhile Haiti is still steeped in Catholic superstit
From: United States
That is not true Roy. While there may be certain segments within Christianity which has experience growth, the overall trend is that religion in on a downward cycle. The United States of America was establish under Judeo-Christian principals and gradually has shyed away from them. School prayer along with the pledge of allegiance was a standard practice in public school, today it is unlawful. Do you think there may be any possible relation to that and the 100% increase in school shootings all over the United States ?
Written by: riosm, 23 Nov 2011 2:06 PM
From: United States
Guillermone,
Good point made.....and Roy is in full steam ahead.
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 4:22 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone says: "It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather "Applied Knowledge."
What? So now we result to semantics, huh?
Sir, knowledge is knowledge. How it's applied, depends on the individual and the purpose. It has no bearing to this argument.
In order for one to accomplish anything under the sky, one must possess the know-how. Without it, we're left scratching our collective heads wondering what to do. It is silly to think that knowledge must be "applied" in order to be of any relevance. Your play on words with this dissertation, has no substance and is pointless. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 5:17 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
Luke 12:24
This is typical of many a nation's take on how to live a life or resolve a need." We need not worry about tomorrow because Allah will provide"!
"Why stress ourselves getting an education when fate is what rule our lives and we're powerless to change it, anyway"? " Today is today, and tomorrow is another day, I'll worry about it then". Or," I'll cross that bridge when I come to it"
"It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather, 'applied knowledge".
All these allusions, parables and oxymoron, among many others, is what spells misery,chaos and the inability to get ahead in a personal and/or a national level.
As long as there are so many people believing in "tomorrow will take care of itself", the will to succeed won't be there to acquaint us with what is real and tangible.
Religion and ignorance, go hand in hand.
Written by: williom, 23 Nov 2011 5:48 PM
From: United States
RonEvane: (( All these allusions, parables and oxymoron, among many others, is what spells misery,chaos and the inability to get ahead in a personal and/or a national level.
As long as there are so many people believing in "tomorrow will take care of itself", the will to succeed won't be there to acquaint us with what is real and tangible.
Religion and ignorance, go hand in hand. ))
Welcome!
Roy and I -we've been there -we've done that.
Written by: riosm, 23 Nov 2011 9:21 PM
From: United States
RonEvane,
My wife and kids are right now in Maryland visiting family....
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 9:47 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Cool! I'll PM you.
Written by: riosm, 23 Nov 2011 9:50 PM
From: United States
RonEvane,
What's PM ?
Written by: RonEvane , 23 Nov 2011 10:03 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"PM" means -private message-.
Click on your "my comments". You'll see what I've written.
From: United States
RonEvane--No........It has nothing to do with a play on words or semantics and yes I do know exactly what I am talking about. It is you who is blinded by an obsession to prove a point that is only relative to reality and because of that fail to see that there is also light at the other end of the spectrum where I am standing.
Let me repeat what I have already stated. Maybe you missed or refused to read a previous post, but It is is well known that "knowledge" in an of itself is vainglorious and there is such a thing known as worthless knowledge. US president Coolidge said it best when he pointed out that the "world is full of educated derelicts" and there are other more desirable, just as important things to have then just plain knowledge. Do you know how many people I know with PhD's who have failed miserably or achieved little to nothing in life?
I work side by side with a higly educated, brilliant co-worker that I consider a genius, yet his accomplishments are mediocre. Why?
From: United States
RonEvane-
Unfortunately your argument is flawed, although I do not take away the value of an education as very important, it is not a quick fix, "cure it all." If knowledge and education ALONE were as great as you claim, the PANACEA for all things, then the solution is very easy and simple. All we have to do is send the whole country back to school, get everyone educated, then only then, will we have a most perfect world and all of our problems will be resolved.
If this is what you really expect and truely believe, then you will be GREATLY disappointed.
Written by: RoyStone, 24 Nov 2011 4:42 PM
From: Australia
guillermone, are you insane?
“the overall trend is that religion in on a downward cycle”
Sure some moderates are seeing the light and becoming agnostics and Atheists – a dying breed as they tend not to propagate much, or impose their beliefs on others. (Present company excluded). By comparison, fundamentalist Xtains and Muslims breed like rabbits and want their superstition taught in schools as science, and brainwash their own kids before they can even think.
“The United States of America was establish under Judeo-Christian principals”
Most of the founding fathers, despite not having the benefit of Darwin’s “Origin of the Species”, were agnostics and atheists and very keen to keep the f***ing church out of state matters. Unfortunately they are sneaking in.
And what are these “Judeo-Christian principals” - Slavery? Oppression of women? Human sacrifice or stoning to death for working on a Saturday?
Written by: RoyStone, 24 Nov 2011 4:44 PM
From: Australia
The idiocy continues:
“School prayer along with the pledge of allegiance was a standard practice in public school, today it is unlawful.”
Unfortunately only in enlightened states.
“Do you think there may be any possible relation to that and the 100% increase in school shootings all over the United States?”
None what-so-ever. Many of these nut-cases are religious nut-cases, and none are Atheists. How come devoutly Xtain countries have the highest crime, corruption and murder rates?
From: United States
Ya'know what Roy....you have extremist tendencies in your athiest point of view. Extremes are not good in any discipline. Being an extremist athiest is just as bad as an extremst Christian, Moslem and Agnostic. It is bad for Business. Believe is or not, I'm more of an agnostic rather then a religious person, but it does not blind me to see the value of the principles found and taught in the Bible. I am a believer from a Humanistic perspectic rather then a religious one.
The things which you complain and constantly criticize about religion has no real basis to justify a total discredit of the Bible as completely worthless. I do not blame you for feeling the way you do but it has nothing to do with the true essence of the book
You need to separate divine truth from false religiiosity created by man. This where the problem lies, truth has been intertwined with man made lies, where people are unable to tell them apart. Ironically, religion is the culprit and resposible for that.
From: United States
It is fact, the US and many countries around the world have pushed biblical based principles farther and farther out of government, businesses, marketplace and schools. People are not embracing religion as they once did, the church is in a crisis and coincidentally so is the world as a whole.
You blame the church as responsible for many of societies ills, while that may be particially true to a certain extent, it is the church who has failed to follow Christian principles and in essence is the cause of the deterioration of mankind.
Just as human history had a beginning, the Bible makes it very clear that it also has an end. People are not cosmic accidents wandering through time and space. Our existence has a purpose that is forever entwined with a Divine origin which science has neither the answer is nor able to explain.
Written by: RoyStone, 25 Nov 2011 8:07 AM
From: Australia
guillermone,
Since you seem to have a direct link with the invisible man in the sky, perhaps you can inform us which parts (if any) of the book of the inerrant word of God, is "divine truth" and which parts are "from false religiiosity created by man".
I am an Athiest, by definition, because I do not believe there is an invisible man, men or multi-armed elephants in the sky to pray to. How am I an "extreme" Atheist? Because I know some history, can think, and care about humanity, and hate the damage done my your deluded belief, and those who profit from it? If Atheism is a religion, then not playing baseball is a sport.
Sure science doesn't explain everything, like answers to presumptive, flawed questions, but it is the only thing that explains anything, including the origin of life and the universe. You are obviously ignorant of molecular-biology, astronomy, anthropology, archeology and history, and are determined to remain so, in the interests of your precious faith. Amen.
Written by: RonEvane , 25 Nov 2011 11:01 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Sure science doesn't explain everything, like answers to presumptive, flawed questions, but it is the only thing that explains anything, including the origin of life and the universe."
Gospel truth!! We need to get down on our knees and thank God for giving us the mind to arrive at that conclusion! ...If it were not for God's infinite wisdom, we would have never empirically evinced that there are no Gods of any sort!
I, for one, will tonight, before I lay myself to sleep, say a little prayer and thank Him for making me an atheist! Amen!
Happy belated Thanksgiving, everyone!
From: United States
No Roy and RonEvane-the difference between you and me is that yes I DO appreciate the sciences as well as the Arts along with its limitations, but I do not shut down completely and close my mind and eyes, because I do not see light in spite of having limited sight.
Written by: RonEvane , 26 Nov 2011 1:02 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone.
I won't preach atheism or build a huge religious empire for the "glory of Satan". Nor will I threaten your family's life or livelihood if you do not convert. Nor will I traumatize your children with tales of eternal damnation in a sea of fire. Nor will you be beheaded, (a-la-Islam), for blasphemy. Nor will you be forced to live a "pious" life by forcing you and wife NOT to engage in sex except for procreation. Nor will I suppress science as being the "tool of the devil". Nor will I meddle in your private life. Nor will I ever ask you for money. Etc, if you do the same for me. Live out your life as best you see fit. Let me do the same, and still be friends.
"Secular Humanism" means: "live and let live". Rest assured, I will never come knocking on your door trying to convert you into my brand of religion. My God would never forgive me!
Belief in a God and resulting dogma, would be angelic, divine and beautiful, if not for all the evil inherent in it.... Alas!
From: United States
Hey were Mr roystone. My nprayer ansered? You in trouble man
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 11:10 AM
From: Australia
RonEvane, very well put.
However your use of the word "God" to mean your philosophy is a poor choice. Still you are in good company. Albert Einstein once used the word to mean the fundamental laws of physics, and has been misquoted by Deists ever since, trying to claim him as one of their own. By definition, he was clearly an Atheist.
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 11:14 AM
From: Australia
blackopal, are you really American or are you Haitian?
Regardless, I suggest you return your voodoo-doll for a refund - clearly it is not working!
Written by: riosm, 26 Nov 2011 12:08 PM
From: United States
All things come to an end, reject God now....God will reject you.
From: United States
RonEvane-I read your last post, believe it or not I mostly agree with it. Which is exactly the same point I keep repeating over and over again, but you guys keep missing because of your close minded attitudes. All of those so called "religious" practices which you mention has no biblical bearing, nothing to support to make any justifications and it is precisely what I meant when I said Man has mixed truth with lies and has adulterated the purity of worship.
The bible talks about freedom of will and freedom of choice and you have the right to not believe in a God and no human has the right to condemn you for that. There is not biblical evidence to support the concept of a hell, that is a man made lie. There is no biblical principle to support "tithing" and demand money from believers.There is no proof celibacy or pious way of life is a requirement to Christianity. It was a religious methodology used by high ranking clergy to retain and perpetuate the wealth of the church
From: United States
You two guys have been hurt by the Church and have bitter feelings towards it and I understand that and like I said once before, I don't blame you. It is clearly evident and well expessed in all of your posts. I am not telling you two guys to all of a sudden believe in God, but rather to continue seeking the truth, to remain and keep your minds, but above all hearts open until truth is found what ever that truth may be or wherever it may lay. There is no such thing as an absolute truth just as there is no such thing as an absolute lie. There is some truth to everything as there is some not so true things as well.
Just because you have been scorned in love does not mean it is not worth giving it a second chance. All I say is always give it a chance, otherwise you will never know.
Written by: RonEvane , 26 Nov 2011 1:42 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"your use of the word "God" to mean your philosophy is a poor choice"
I was being sarcastic and/or trying to be funny. Geez!...I'll pray to the good Lord for understanding among us!
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 1:58 PM
From: Australia
guillermone, have you ever actually read the Bible?
" . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."
Luke 16:22-28
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 2:01 PM
From: Australia
guillermone. Some more reading for you from your precious book:
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this flame."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 2:05 PM
From: Australia
Furthermore, from another fellow Christian, scientist and bible teacher, Henry Morris also agrees the Bible plainly teaches that hell is in this earth:
"So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .
The writers certainly themselves believed hell to be real and geographically 'beneath' the earth's surface. . .
To say this is not scientific is to assume science knows much more about the earth's interior than is actually the case. The great 'pit' [hell] would only need to be about 100 miles or less in diameter to contain, with much room to spare, all the forty billion or so people who have ever lived, assuming their 'spiritual' bodies are the same size as their physical bodies."
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 2:11 PM
From: Australia
Nothing about tithing?
How about:
“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year"
Deuteronomy 14:22
There are hundreds more, if you care to actually read the book, rather than spout BS.
From: United States
oh roystone son o Satan it come soon you scum
Written by: RonEvane , 26 Nov 2011 2:15 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"I am not telling you two guys to all of a sudden believe in God, but rather to continue seeking the truth, to remain and keep your minds, and hearts open until truth is found whatever or wherever it may be"
Well said, Guillermone. Totally in concert with you on this one.
The quest for truth is what science is all about, and so far, based on empirical evidence, it tells us that there is no such thing as a sentient, all mighty creator. But until it proves us otherwise, I'll keep my mind open.
Believe it or not, friend, hope it's ok to call you "friend", I go to church on Sundays. I'm there to listen to all the good things associated with God and the bible. The pastor is well-versed and entertaining. I generally love the camaraderie found with my "brothers and sisters". Church is a great place to relax and reflect on life with all its peculiarities. In other words: It's a real blast!. Am I a hypocrite? I wonder what my church folks would think if they ever found out!...shudder!
From: United States
RonEvane-I also agree. Your approach is most appropriate, I definitely do not consider you a hypocrite. I too have issues with many of the Church teachings, but hey, I won't let that stop me from enjoying everything else it offers or the wisdom found in the scriptiures. After all are we not all there to seek light ?
But I will keep the search, maybe after all is said and done I will end up like Roy a full fledge Atheist or the other extreme a Pastor, Priest, Bishop or Cardinal living the life up in the Vatican. You just never know what road life will take you.
But like I said, taking an extremist stance to anything is not wise, that is why I consider myself undecided. The bottom line is no matter how valid or convincing the argument pro or against God, nobody really knows. We just dont have enough information to conclusively justify anything. I mean, think about it, even our very own existence might be a figment of the imagination and we might not really be here posting on DT
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 9:33 PM
From: Australia
It is interesting to note the number of members of the clergy, particular senior members of the Anglican Church in Australia are "coming out" and admitting they do not believe in God or the Biblical Jesus. No big surprise, as these are well educated, humane gentlemen with an in-depth knowledge of the Bible. What I find interesting, is they are keeping their jobs!
One Anglican church in an inner Melbourne suburb had lost almost all of it's congregation. The vicar continued to preach humanist principles, and continue with his pastoral work, but dropped all reference to God, Jesus or the Bible. He now fills his church to capacity at every service.
From: United States
Roy-What I said about Man made teachings peached as if it were a divine truth holds.
Yes the Bible talks about giving 10% of your earning, but who said that it still applies today? The tithe laws were given to Israel and instituted under Law covenant for definite and specific purposes, support Israel's temple and priesthood. It was considered a moral obligation, but there is no stated penalty if one failed to tithe. Consequently, the obligation to pay tithes would cease when Mosaic Law covenant came to an end and Christianity was born.
Early Christians supported ministerial activities, through voluntary contributions, not tithing and only when it was within the means of the donor, not fixed amounts, giving "as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."-2Cor 8:12; 9:7
So any church who uses the antiquated law of tithing to extract money from its members has falsely twisted bible teachings to their advantage.
Written by: RoyStone, 26 Nov 2011 11:03 PM
From: Australia
Oh, so the Bible is obsolete?
From: United States
Now about the concept of Hell. This is another man made idea. Yes, the bible talks about "hell". The question to ask if what the church teaches about this place actually comes from the bible. The answer is NO. The meaning today to the word "hell" is similar to what is portrayed in Dante's Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word translated from the Hebrew "sheol" or "hades" and the equivalent Greek word "gehenna."
Gehenna corresponds to "the second death, the lake of fire," a symbol of everlasting or final destruction found in Rev 20:14. While sheol and hades refers to the normal death of mankind.
The image of people suffering death in eternal damnation of intense heat is an idea which originates and dates back to pagan worhip, among the ancient people of Babylon, Assyria and Egypt. What the bible actually teaches is that "hell" is simply the common grave of the dead and not a place of fiery torment
From: United States
Roy-The bible is not obsolete, what is no longer compulsory are the Mosaic Laws given to the original people of Israel. But regardless of whether or not it is a required practice for modern time is rrelevant. The Kosher dietary laws makes a lot of sense and it has been scientifically proven to be quite beneficial to ones health and I do not see any reason to discontinue a ancient practice if one personally wishes to voluntarily follow it. But it should be of personal choice and not forced religious dogma.
Another reason why we should not completely dismiss the bible as irrelevant for today is because it still remains to be historically accurate and when it touches upon science it is also exact. Aproximately, 1,500 years ago while the ancient world hung on to mythological beliefs the bible clearly stated that planet earth was "hanging upon nothing."-Job 26:7 And that its shape was a round sphere-Isa 40:22- I don' know about you but these two examples were ahead of its time.
Written by: riosm, 27 Nov 2011 1:48 PM
From: United States
Guillermone,
Good....give'um the book.
Atheist are all closet haters.
Written by: RoyStone, 27 Nov 2011 5:03 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,
The Bible was definitely not "ahead of its time". Many civilizations knew the earth was a sphere long before. The Egyptians had even calculated the diameter to within 2%! It was not until Christianity caused he Dark Ages, and promoted the flat-earth idea, to support the Bible and the authority if Rome. Even through the Dark Ages, when your church punished those who spoke of a spherical earth and a Helios-centric solar-system, astronomers knew better.
So the original Mosaic Laws are no longer compulsory? Not according to Jesus' Sermon in the Mount, where he stated the exact opposite.
I love the way Xtians use the inerrant word of God, the Holly Buy-Bull to support a point, but interpret-away the bits that are inconvenient or contradictory. Either all of it is true or none, take your pick!
Written by: RoyStone, 27 Nov 2011 5:08 PM
From: Australia
riosm,
I think you need "the book" more than I do, since you obviously have no idea of its contents.
I for one don't hate closets.
However if you are talking about man's inhumanity to man, give me Atheist "hate" before Xtian "love" any day. Atheism has never tortured or killed anyone. Christianity has done it to millions in the name of Jesus' "love".
Written by: riosm, 27 Nov 2011 5:43 PM
From: United States
Roy
Why must you twist the truth.....man in his evil nature will look for any excuse to justify his inhumanity towards men.
Next time try spewing the truth.
Written by: RoyStone, 27 Nov 2011 5:57 PM
From: Australia
Yes, riosm, and God, the Bible and the Koran are the best "excuses to justify his inhumanity towards men" that man has ever invented.
If the Bible is "the truth" then I do not twist it. I quote it word-for-word and even give the book, chapter and verse so you can check for yourself. I suggest you read it before demonstrating your total ignorance again.
Written by: riosm, 27 Nov 2011 6:01 PM
From: United States
Yes Roy you do quote the Bible word for word and but you still lose it's true meaning to your atheist understanding.
From: United States
Roy "Either all of it is true or none, take your pick!"
Why must you take such extremes?
I keep telling you that what you actually complain about are actions of the church, not the Bible. The church is responsible for killing what little faith you had, if you ever had any.
What I do advise you to do is stop blaming the gun for the murder, blame the person who pulled the trigger.
Written by: RoyStone, 27 Nov 2011 8:21 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,
The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church, on the instructions of Holy Roman Emperor Constantine, at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE from a collection of anonymous mythological stories from unknown authors, for the purpose of unifying the various faiths throughout the empire. Smart move. You cannot separate the church from the Bible.
Yes, I had a faith as a child, perhaps stronger than yours. However the church did not kill it. Learning science and thinking logically did. Still it was history that taught me what an evil thing deistic religions like Christianity and Islam are.
Your gun analogy is appropriate. The reality is, a gun has only one purpose - to kill people. It is not used to grow cops, build houses or cure the sick.
Written by: RonEvane , 27 Nov 2011 8:24 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"I for one, don't hate closets."
Roy, You're too much, brother!
My vote for best quote of the month!
Written by: RonEvane , 27 Nov 2011 9:04 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Now about the concept of Hell. This is another man made idea."
You can interpret the "concept" any which way you want. I choose to read it exactly as it is written and interpret it verbatim! Why should I not? And how do you know YOUR interpretation is the correct one? Did God enlighten you on this?
People for ages, have been conveniently "reading between the lines" to suit their particular religious bent. This is why there are so many branches of the same Christianity root and few agree with the other on what the Bible REALLY mean when this or that is said.
My carnal brother, A blind, religious fanatic, tells me that my "take" on this:-- "so God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Gen: 1:27.-- is wrong. That God didn't really mean that we, humans, really look like Him. He went on to tell me what the Bible really means by it. I think he's full of shit; and so is religion in general.
From: United States
Roy-About the Gun analogy, you purposedly missed the point. You know exactly what I meant, but prefer to contradict solely for the purpose of contradicting. It does not matter if it was a gun, car, knife, rope, belt, whatever. You know quite well that it is not the instrument itself who is to blame, but rather the person behind it and how it is utilized.
A chef can prepare food to create a healthful beneficial meal to nourish and sustain the body. But he can also do the opposite, cook high cholesterol, high salt, artery clogging dinners which over time can potentialy kill you or even poison you. Who are you going to blame? The meal? No you just better make sure that the food you eat will nourish and keep you alive and well. If you know the cook continues to feed junk food but you eat it anyway, that is your fault. But the solution is NOT starvation, yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are spiritually starving yourself for fear of contracting a dietary related illness.
From: United States
Roy-Where did you ever get the idea that the Catholic church compiled the Bible?
From: United States
-RoyThis is a clear case of mistaken identity. You keep blaming the wrong person. point the finger at the wrong guy, point your finger at organized religion. They are the ones totally at fault
Nearly all the protestant churches subscribe to the same creed-the Nicene, Athanasian and Apostles' creeds-and these profess some of the very same doctrines that Catholicism has been teaching for centuries. Most of those teachings are unscriptural, have no basis in the bible and gave the people a distorted view of the Divine truth. Rather then aid believers in their search for truth, the numerous sects and denominations that came into existence have only steered people into the path of more confusion and as a result people remain lost.
Written by: RonEvane , 27 Nov 2011 10:38 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Most of those teachings are unscriptural, have no basis in the bible and gave the people a distorted view of the Divine truth."
Please excuse my ignorance. What exactly do you mean by "a DISTORTED view of the Divine truth"? You mean to tell me that you're totally" in the know" as to what is distorted? and others are not? is that it?
"most of those teachings are 'unscriptural'? Really? You can tell the difference? I can't! And How do you know they are?
Tell, Mr. Guillermone, do you take literally, the Bible's declaration that we were made in God's image? Huh?
From: United States
RonEvane-No you are not ignorant and I do not have inside info. We can read history to tell us something is wrong that those teachings can't possibly come from the bible.
Does it not make you wonder what role religion has played in the many wars that have devastated mankind. Why has so many people been killed in the name of religion. The Crusades, Inquisition, conflicts in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, the slaughter between Iraq and Iran(1980-88) Hindu-Sikh clashes in India, the role Catholics played in the two world wars.
Now what does the bible say: "My kingdom is not part of this world, If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is my kingdom is not from this source"
True religion remains untainted by worldly politics and conflicts. It is neutral in time of war and does not condone war or personal violence.-Micah 4:2-4, Rom 3:3, 4: 2 Tim 3:16-17, 1 Thes 2:13.-John 18:36/ Jam 1:27
Written by: RoyStone, 28 Nov 2011 12:00 AM
From: Australia
guillermone, asks "Roy-Where did you ever get the idea that the Catholic church compiled the Bible?"
From history.
Since you have obviously never read the Bible you believe in, it is even less likely you have read an real history.
Can I suggest some Superman comics might be more fitting for you?
Written by: RoyStone, 28 Nov 2011 12:10 AM
From: Australia
The God of the Bible does not condone war?
Gillermone, I think your contorted "interpretation" is required here then:
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".
Jeremiah 50:21-22
Or can you make this one "nice" for us?
"But if this charge is true and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst."
Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
From: United States
"History" is hardly a response and if it is your answer to the question, it is a half ass one at that.
But I understand Roy, you are begining to show signs of weakness. Are you running out of ammo? It always happens when ever I see an opponent begin to or resorts to personal attacks, insults and ridicule as his principal arm of defense.
Let keep this battle civil, perhaps in the cateogry of a military exercise rather then a bar room brawl or a street fight among teen-agers attempting to pick a fight on a local kid in the neighborhood who appears not to fit-in with the rest of the gang.
Written by: RoyStone, 28 Nov 2011 12:20 AM
From: Australia
Ron, don't blame Guillermone for not making up his mind,
God can't either!
He, in his divine and everlasting wisdom, commanded Moses to never make a graven image (sculpture) of anything on earth, in heaven or the seas below, (on threat of eternity in hell, you know, the hell that's not in Guillermone's Bible) then later told him to make an image made of brass of a snake wrapped around a rod.
From: United States
Nevertheless, Roy you made some interesting points. I will take a break for now. I have a job and got to get some rest. I will address your points later on to be continued. thanks for your participation.
Written by: RoyStone, 28 Nov 2011 12:33 AM
From: Australia
Okay, Guillermone, here's your homework for the week -
Read up about the Nicaean Councils, which Gospels were selected, which ones were rejected, and by who.
Then check the Biblical references I have given you, to see if they are true.
Then come back to this site and admit that you were wrong.
Then maybe we can continue?
Written by: RonEvane , 28 Nov 2011 2:31 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone.
No one I know of today, or historically, have taken to heart what believing in your God and loving one another is all about!---- Anyone who does not love, remains in death . Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer.----1st John14,15.----....people have ignored this command from their God to commit the most horrendous crimes imaginable!... This is my contention: If this is the word, why is your god so biased in favor of one people (Israel) and hate another, (Philistines). Your bible and the Koran so full of contradictions! And are nothing less than instruments of hatred, division, and genocide.
The greatest tragedy afflicting humanity is believing in supernatural beings (gods) worshipped by people who can't understand why the sky is blue!
Not only is your god, bible and religion a sham, it is also the best reason why I and many more of us are atheists: Contented and appreciative to be reflective, tolerant, curious and open-minded, but not spiritual fools.
Written by: Nehesy, 2 Dec 2011 12:37 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Knowledge can be power : with 2 aspects
> Good : use Atom science to produce cheap energy
> Bad : use Atom science to produce weapons (H bomb)
So morals, philosophy, or something call religion is needed and should be associated to each knowledge.
Ancient people understood that. In Egypt they would test you before you enter the clergy ( with huge science: chemestry, astronomy, magic, medecine, geometry, philosophy etc). Thales the Greek learnt everything he knew from them during 22 yrs but they tested him hardly because he was repelled even with a recommendation from an userper non-native pharoah.
Now for Atheism. Today in the 21st our basic law codes are based on religious books:
- You won't kill
- You won't steal
- You won't lie etc
These religious laws existed before the Bible ( Ancient, Psalms,Gospel), and the Quran
Ancient Egypt , Sumer, Aztecs etc had all these codes. They had also brilliant civilizations with of course few "bugs"...
Written by: Nehesy, 2 Dec 2011 12:46 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 1 :
Communism and Capitalism are two faces of the same coins :
- US Bankers financed the communist rebels who destroyed the Russian Monarchy
Capitalism is materialism and also Atheism
- Only material, wealth, accumulation of profit is the ultimate goal. They even put "In God we Trust" next to a Freemason symbol (Pyramid + Eye) in their dollar bill : it's like mixing cashmere and polyester...
As history showed us some hypocrites used religion for their own benefit (wealth) : Catholic Monks with slave plantations in Visigoth spain, France, Italia..And in the new world like in Brazil. Ferdinand and Isabela did not care about the soul of indian on black folks, only wealth was their ultimate goal
These examples are valid for all religions : hindouism, Islam, Christanity, Judaism etc. They used religion for their own goal but their morals was foul.
Written by: RoyStone, 2 Dec 2011 1:05 PM
From: Australia
Nehsey,
certainly the civilizations you mention, as well as Christianity and Islam, have some moral codes forbidding killing, stealing and lying. However that never applied to their enemies. In fact they endorse all manner of atrocities against outsiders, heathens, heretics and infidels, and even women. The only philosophies that promote universal humanitarian principles are those devoid of any god, ie, Atheist philosophies like Buddhism, Shintoism and Secular Humanism.
The abolition of slavery is very recent in the history of mankind, and capital punishment is still practiced in many countries.
Written by: Nehesy, 2 Dec 2011 1:05 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 2
One of the last example was the nazi themselves who were Atheists/Pagans they destroyed all the crosses when they invaded France and had very bad words against Jesus and his mum (PBUT) .
Nazis were brilliant :
- scientists : wolswagen, V1, V2, war weapons => US and Russia used the nazi scientists to move forward
- Warriors
- Srategists
But they did not have good morals :
- Extermination of innocent people
- Calling some "race" inferior (including europeans like French) or superior
- Atheists Pagans
Knowledge and Morals/Philosophy are to put together.
If you are a martial art teacher there are some techniques (for killing) that you would teach to only 1 , 2 or 0 students if none of them deserve it . It's a responsability...Your soul/spirit must be trained hardly 1st : character testing (like washing the toilets), get knowledge to heal, Train your soul in order to avoid arrogance, fast etc
Knowledge without Morals/Philosphy is highly dangerous ..
Written by: Nehesy, 2 Dec 2011 1:15 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Roy,
I'm a practising muslim and I read Buddha and Confucius and do agree with their philosophy.
As I said above some Christians ,Muslims and others did very bad things. But if we have a look at their books it was forbidden. So like ancient Egyptians said they are like Donkeys carrying books, they did not understood the message/philosophy/morals.
Not all christians/muslims/others enslaved, killed or destroyed people: a huge part of their groups understood the message but as a proverb says " the 2 or 3 trees falling on the forest make more noise than the other trees which are growing"
Peace
Written by: RonEvane , 3 Dec 2011 1:30 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Excuse me for butting in.
Islam has always advocated violence as a way to repress and oppress descent, even among themselves. “Death to the infidels and non-believers”, they roar. It is horrific that in this day and age, a person can be, at best flogged and at worst, beheaded, simply for uttering words considered “blasphemy’ by the Ayatollah, et al.
Belonging to Islam can be downright dangerous, to say the least. One can be accused of anything from adultery to homosexuality and be put to death. As a matter of fact, simply writing my opinions on this can be reason enough for a world-wide hunt for my balls. Shudder! On the other hand, I like to think I’m safe here in my room where nobody can find me. Sure glad I’m no Salman Rushdie!
Written by: RoyStone, 3 Dec 2011 6:26 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy, you are a classic example of what blind faith is all about. I have lost count of the number of times I have given you irrefutable evidence that;
1) Hitler was not an Atheist, he was a devout Catholic (Christian), advocated all Germany to be Catholic, had close ties and agreements with the Pope and the Vatican, preached from the Bible, which gave him the justification for the Holocaust.
2) The Bible and the Koran are full of evil shit, justifying all manner of atrocities including murder, genocide, rape, pillage, slavery, racism, oppression of women (I've probably left a few out).
yet you still refuse to learn or check the evidence for yourself, still spouting the same utter bull@hit as if it were history. Ignorance and stupidity are bad enough, but determination to remain thus is worse. It's called "faith".
How dare you say "Peace" after promoting the greatest cause of war!
From: United States
If there is anyone here who condemns the atrocities commited against humanity in the name of religion it is yours truely. However, I keep hearing the same litany repeated over again, placing blame against the wrong entity. Culpability on the "effect" of the act instead of the actual "cause."
Example: Hitler a devout Catholic with close ties to the Vatican, preached the bible and justified the Holocaust. Therefore, the bible is full of evil shit and responsible for the crimes against humanity.
The question: was it Hitler who justified crimes against humanity or was it the bible ?
What is the cause and what is the effect?
Interpreting causation as a deterministic relation means that if A causes B, then A must always be followed by B. In this sense, war does not cause deaths, nor does smoking cause cancer. Direct cause must be demonstrated to hold an offender liable. And in all denouncements, you have failed to prove that, but rather pointed exclusively on the act by itself
Written by: RonEvane , 3 Dec 2011 4:15 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Religion causes mind-numbing, which causes blind faith (do not question god), which causes suicide bombers, which causes chaos, anarchy, confusion and destruction, which causes people to seek answers for the holy mess, which causes religion, which causes......
From: United States
EXACTLY !!! and PRECISELY !!!!!! You got the point.
I fully agree and accept that organized religion is the culprit and completely responsible for precisely the CAUSE of those effects.
Written by: riosm, 3 Dec 2011 4:36 PM
From: United States
I agree also.....Religion is man made and is a miss guided interpretation of Gods word.
From: United States
riosm-Yes...........plain and simple
Written by: penny, 3 Dec 2011 8:03 PM
From: Azerbaijan
Hitler was a member of the occult Vrill society and his catholism was a front.Far more evil than Hitler was Churchill.Hitler begged that scum not to bomb crowded civilian areas an incite Germany.
Written by: RoyStone, 3 Dec 2011 9:50 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,and riosm,
When you say "God's word" are you referring to the Bible, or do you have some special dialog with His Divine Invisibleness that we, the churches and he rest of humanity are not privy to?
If it is the Bible, then fu@kingwell read it! The words, printed on the paper. Not someone's interpretation, interpolation or spin. It's all there in black and white, and its the inerrant word of God, and like I said, full of evil shit, justifying all manner of atrocities including murder, genocide, rape, pillage, slavery, racism, oppression of women. Don't take my or anyone else's word for it - just read it. If you still can't see it, then come back to me and I'll give you the books, chapters and verses to look up, okay?
Now shut the f@ck-up and read!
From: United States
For crying out loud Roy, what do you have up your ASS ? What ever it is just shit it out and you will feel so much better believe me. You get so emotional about a subject that not even religious scholars can totally agree upon. Never mind a bunch of lay people like us who have not even barely scratched the surface of it vast depth.
The bible is a complex book which takes years of intense study just to master its basic principles. And the reason why your extremist approach to the subject matter is quite unsensible. It is never wise to go far to the left nor the far right with regards to the bible. At least try is to make an attempt at understanding the others point of view and stop being so black and white with your approach. The bible is no way in hell what you make it out to be, definitely not the distorted view firmly set in your mind.
The real problem is not the book but you. You have a chip on your shoulder and wrongly use the bible to take out your pent up frustrations
From: United States
Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna.
'And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
“This bread is my body; this wine is my blood”
I quoted these bible texts to give an example of why we can't and must not take the bible literally.
If we did then hey, there would be a bunch of one eye Christians walking around eating human flesh and washing it down with a jug of Blood. The bible does neither condone Canabalism nor the injestion of blood of any kind.
From: United States
Remember when interpreting scripture we have to know when a literal interpretation versus a symbolic interpretation is required. A rule of thumb is that when the literal sense makes sense then it makes sense. If not then it is symbolic of something else.
The bible says that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit so it is quite obvious that we are not to pluck out our eye or cut off our hand. If we did that we would be called Moslems not Christians.
Written by: penny, 4 Dec 2011 5:38 AM
From: Azerbaijan
Google "The Forbidden Secret " by Jonathan Gray,the much older man that obsessed the Australian atheist.
Written by: penny, 4 Dec 2011 5:41 AM
From: Azerbaijan
Jonathan Gray is known to millions.
Written by: penny, 4 Dec 2011 5:41 AM
From: Azerbaijan
Jonathan Gray is known to millions.
Written by: penny, 4 Dec 2011 5:42 AM
From: Azerbaijan
The atheist is on the run
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 4:43 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Roy
Before bragging out you should do your research Hitler was not christian neither the nazi war lords. i Know you're a dumb islamophobic because you haven't read the qu'ran and just repeat what all the médias say Like a parrott . Muslims stay 700 yrs in spain yet the spanish are Still alive as a people. Tasmanians or the true Australians can't say the same thing. Japanese practise some of the religions you call safe yet they cause many havoc on asia
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 5:19 PM
From: Australia
Yes, Nehesy,
The media is wrong, the recognized historians are wrong, the treaties between Hitler and the Vatican are wrong, the Nazi uniforms were wrong, Hitler's book, writings and speeches are wrong, so Hitler must be wrong about being a Catholic too! Maybe you can enlighten him when you get to heaven? Perhaps you can pray to Mahomet to pass on the message, when he takes a break from de-flowering virgins?
Written by: RonEvane , 4 Dec 2011 5:20 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Muslims stay 700 yrs in spain yet the spanish are Still alive as a people."
Only because we kicked your Islamic asses out of our territory.
Que viva El Cid!!! Que viva España libre!!!
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 5:27 PM
From: Australia
Sorry, Nehesy, I don't know Arabic. Perhaps you can check the following passages from the Koran and translate it, because to me, they doesn't look like promoting tolerance and peace:
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued."
Surah 9:27-
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." Surah 8:36-
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 5:33 PM
From: Australia
Yes, Ron, but not so easy these days - we have religious tolerance and political correctness to contend with. Damn!
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 5:53 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Ronevans
Haha I was not there man but one thing is sure though the tainos would have trade 1 muslim for 1000000 spanish. Spanish conquistadores killed More people than Hitler . Plus they were looking a way to avoid the muslims in the seas this is why colombus the fake @ss sailor "discovered " the WI and provoked the biggest genocide of history. Spanish of that time were greedy criminals. Spanish saw the light only after they have been educated by muslims....and yet the first thing they did when kicked out the moors
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 5:56 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont...they destroyed the public baths and went back to their filthy Life indeed not Washing his @ss was an act of piety. Don't make me start Man. !
Written by: RonEvane , 4 Dec 2011 6:07 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Koran 4.56 - (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Good golly, miss molly! I've better convert!
Those 72 virgins are sounding mighty tempting!
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 6:08 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Roystone
It's better we give up , atheists are not better than the others, communists and nazis killed More people than anyone. Muslims themselves were genocided when conquered by the mongols who killed around 1,5 millions. It's in the history books but nobody Will tell it. And once again nazi war lords were atheists pagans somebody here gave you the clues but hey I guess it's hard to rid off of some believes
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:08 PM
From: Australia
"I am one of the servants of Allah. We do our duty of fighting for the
sake of the religion of Allah. It is also our duty to send a call to
all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to
embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam.
Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."
Osama bin Laden (1957 - 2011)
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:13 PM
From: Australia
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:25 PM
From: Australia
“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies'....
"Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors!
"There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.'”
The Ayatollah Khomeini
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:29 PM
From: Australia
"What moved me to what I did was purely my faith. I was motivated by the law that commands me to cut off the head of anyone who insults Allah and his Prophet."
Mohammed Bouyeri, explaining in court why he stabbed Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh to death. (Bouyeri was holding a Qur'an at the time).
Not as bad as the Spaniards destroying the baths, 500 years ago?
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 6:34 PM
From: France, London / Paris
He is not the 1st muslim, the 1st muslim according to islamic teachings is Adam (PBUH) . So please give up you obviously hate islam and muslims. Medias propanganda is indeed efficient. And please notice that I'm a young man in my early 30s born and raised in a christian country and who is also highly educated (PHD) so I'm not that madrassa type who blew up himself and is totally ignorant too cause suicide and Killing are both forbidden
Written by: Nehesy, 4 Dec 2011 6:37 PM
From: France, London / Paris
Typical cliche Roy anyway you hate islam for sure. But as i always say peace be upon you
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:37 PM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Here's an update on your religion of peace. Islam:
Monthly Jihad Report
November, 2011
Jihad Attacks: 151
Countries: 23
Religions: 5
Dead Bodies: 685
Critically Injured: 1087
Written by: RonEvane , 4 Dec 2011 6:48 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Spanish conquistadores killed More people than Hitler."
Right you are, Nehesy. And they were justified because God "told them" to convert the "pagans" or inflict pain, suffering and death, for they( the Impious) were already dead in the eyes of God.
It's horrific what religious fanatics would do in the "name of our God". Christianity and Islam have caused and are still causing untold suffering on this earth. The extremists, radical nuts, in your rank and file, are the true genocidal maniacs afflicting humanity today!
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:48 PM
From: Australia
Nehesey,
So "suicide and Killing are both forbidden"? By who? Certainly not your "Holly" books, there are scores of passages promoting them, and endorsed by your Holly men and followers of Islam.
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 6:55 PM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Yes you are right about one thing.
I hate Islam, even more than Christianity, and that's saying something. Both are enemies of peace, justice, humanity, science and the environment. Your wish of peace on me is a transparent lie.
Written by: RoyStone, 4 Dec 2011 7:06 PM
From: Australia
Hey Ron,
Regarding those 72 heavenly virgins, I was wondering, what happens to them after they have been de-flowered by the incuming suicide-bombers? Are they surgically "re-virgined" by the same procedures many Islamic brides are subjected to here on earth?
Written by: RonEvane , 4 Dec 2011 7:57 PM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"incuming"? You're too much Roy!
"Are they surgically re-virginized"? Man! That would be a job to die for!
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 6:29 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Ronevane
First you're older than me so I won't use any insults towards you since it's only a debate, we can discuss without any bad words and respect each others.
1st. I'm not an extremist "nuts" , you don't know anything about me. If I were an extremist I would not put my feet in the DR ( prostitution , drugs etc). Actually "yo soy un tiguere" I went up and down the DR when I was single. Know that I'm married I still go there . I even lived in the campo for few days ( no luz, no proper toilets, no clean water ).
I have christian family ( mi abuela) . My spiritual teacher ( martial art teacher) is a true spanish born in London and his spiritual teacher is an Indonesian woman, he is one of the top guys I have ever met in my life. One of my Intellectual "enlighter" is an American guy from Brooklyn (74 yrs) also a top executive manager in the Asset management company I worked in London.
The true extremist nuts at the moment we are talking are the USA
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 6:38 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 1...
So my point is I have a brain and I love any good people (white, yellow, black , jew, christian, animist etc) , I'm not a cattle thinker like 95 % of the western propaganda victims oriented by the medias (including you and Roy)
- 11/9 is an inside job : I work in Investment Banking and 11/9 hides one of the biggest financial fraud of history. Why the western Media don't say to people that Traders made millions out of this Attentat huh ( via investing on put options 5, 4 days before the attack)?
- Many of the so called "19" terrorists are alived at least 5 of them.
- Many muslims died in these attacks
- Where is the plane which crashed on the Pentagone ?
- Why nobody says that a third tour went down on the same area and no planes crashed on it but was exploded with army materials (plastic) ?
I thought you were a clever man but you're also "dormant" senior ronevane
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 6:44 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 2
2nd Atheists (Nazis , Communists) and so called Christians have killed more people than anyone , US being one of the worst :
- Vietnam burning down innocent people with Napalm
- Hiroshima and Nagasaki
- Dresde Bombing (allies)
- US soldiers Raping and Killing in Irak and Afghanistan. Torture in Abughraib and Guantanamo
- How many innocent victims have been killed in Afghanistan and Irak , huh ?
- How many innocent victims have been killed by US Foreign Policy ?
US leaders put " In God we Trust" in the dollar bill, but even the founding fathers (most of them freemasons) didn't care about their fellow christians ( Washington owned white slaves fasely called Indentured Servants).
English wiped out the Natives the North America Natives
Spanish , English, French , Danish wiped out the natives of the carribeans islands
Spanish wiped out the natives of South America, Portuguese helped them in that task in Brazil
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 7:06 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 3
English convicts almost wiped out The Aboriginals of Australia
The Tasmanians don't exist anymore
Atheists armed children with guns (and destroyed their mind with pornographic literature) in Spain during the civil war
Staline, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, or Napoleon were Muslims?
It’s also Muslims who killed the Kennedy brothers …
Killing, Bombing, raping, burning etc have been the Trademark of those using the name of Christ and the Atheists (I include US, France, UK etc) during the last centuries and yet you guys hate Islam and Muslims? As I already said above you're only a victim of the TV propaganda…
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 7:26 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Roy
Give one line in Qu'ran where it is said that suicide is allowed.Your soul is full hatred so you have to make up things to justify your nonsense.
Anders Behring Breivik is also an example of what hatred towards others could produce. You guys should focuse on your owns before speaking about muslims. You copy and paste the lines out of the context. With these methods Mein Kampf could be seen as a good book..
Atheists : Communists, Nazis , Satanists, Capitalists
Shintoists/Buddhism :Japanese killed, raped, burned all over Asia
Christians in general: Genocide in all continents including Europe against their fellow brothers or others (Inquisition, Nazis concentration camps). English being the 1st to create the concentration camps in South Africa and the Boers were the victims.
Hinduism: Extremists who burnt down muslim men, women children in India
Muslims : Enslaved millions of Europeans and Africans, Killed, raped, burnt down
Jews : Genocide in Palestine
Peace Yo !
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 8:02 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Help me here: Your total ignorance of history, and determination to remain ignorant I understand - it's called faith, in your case, Islamic faith.
However I am struggling with your logic:
What we now consider atrocities, committed by others hundreds of years ago, justifies the atrocities continuing today by Muslims, carrying out the vile instructions in the Koran?
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 8:18 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy demands: "Give one line in Qu'ran where it is said that suicide is allowed"
"[A] martyr’s privileges are guaranteed by Allah; forgiveness with the first gush of his blood, he will be shown his seat in paradise, he will be decorated with the jewels of belief, married off to the beautiful ones, protected from the test in the grave, assured security in the day of judgment, crowned with the crown of dignity, a ruby of which is better than this whole world and its entire content, wedded to seventy-two of the pure Houris (beautiful women of Paradise) and his intercession on the behalf of seventy of his relatives will be accepted."
This hadith source that bin Laden cites puts together different Quranic passages describing Islamic heaven, complete with beautiful virgins (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78)
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 8:37 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Roy
You're a faker, and you prove it once again here. I asked you to show the word "Suicide" in the Qu'ran you showed up with the word "martyr"
Do you know the definition of a martyr (shahid) in Islam ?
I definitely know history more than you and I challenge you to show me that I'm wrong. Hitler was an Atheist like you (your australian fellow citizen give you some clues but you want to stay blind..) , this is why you're upset. Communists are also atheists and enslaved (goulags) and killed more than anyone.
Atheists/Communists/Nazis/ Satanists/Capitalists are part of the same family
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 8:38 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 1 :
About islam crimes in 2011.
I ask you to reproduce the victime figures :
- US wars in Afghanistan and Irak
- Palestinians victims in Palestine
- The hundred thousands who died all over the world because of the multinationals firms and banks evil actions
Then the figures will tell us who is more peaceful than the others.
Muslim represent the 2nd religion in this world ( I would say first because church are empty all over the world) yet we don't have a world war, because we are peaceful. There are million of muslims in China , most of them fantastic martial artists, have you ever heard of a bombing down there due to muslims ?
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 8:44 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 2 :
Western powers ( I did not say religions) are the biggest criminals in all historical time, you can't prove me anything different and you know it deep down your heart. I would understand that a man who lost family in 09/11 would hate muslims (even if it's an inside job). What is your excuse except that you watch TV, listen to radio and read newspapers (all of them control by some people who hate muslims) ?
For 09/11 once again It's true one the biggest financial fraud occured that day. It must be Bin Lahden who called the Wall Street Traders and told them to invest in put options.
And let me tell you faith and science are linked together, this why the Fibonacci sequence is present in the nature and even the human species (DNA coding). If you study a little bit ( and not following the propaganda) you may see the light.
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 8:55 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 3..
You hate islam and muslims good for you . An IPAD, or computer are high technology materials. If I say to you that it just popped up from the earth from raw materials you would tell me that I'm a stupid donkey , right ?
The universe building or just the human body is 1 trillion times more complex yet some fools said that we evolved from apes when the science shows totally different. The Universe tuning is one of the most terrific evidence. Remember Roy I'm a scientist , I studied maths and stats for years and used them everyday to do modelization , and I'm telling you it's impossible that we reached so much precision ( up to 27 figures after the comma) by chance...I repeat IMPOSSIBLE...
Now Atheists scientists showed up with the multiuniverse theory. We are supposed to have many universes and just by chance (like loto) our universe had been set up will the elements necessary for our life.
Roy do your life as you want and let people do as they want . Peace !
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 8:59 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Oh I get it now - thanks for the explanation. "Islamic suicide bombers" is a vicious misnomer, created by the infidel media. They are "martyrs to Islam"!
Please inform the media, on threat of death by Holy Fatwa, to use the correct nomenclature.
So, because not every Muslim is a martyrs to Islam, that makes it a religion of peace?
So 9/11 was an "inside job"? Of course! How dare al-Queda claim credit for what the CIA did. They must have been brainwashed by the western media too!
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 9:03 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Roy
09/11 is an inside job
Where is the plane who crashed on the Pentagone ?
Where is the plane who crashed on the third tour in NYC ?
I'm waiting for your evidence...
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 9:05 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Here is your lesson for today, from the Koran -
Sura 4:74
In this verse the Arabic switches from jihad to qital (q-t-l), and this word means warring, fighting and killing with swords, and it again becomes the currency for fatally selling or trading this life for the Hereafter.
4:74 "Let those of you who are willing to trade the life of this world for the life to come, fight [q-t-l] in God’s way. To anyone who fights [q-t-l] in God’s way, whether killed [q-t-l] or victorious, We shall give a great reward. (Haleem)"
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 9:08 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
Relax and, say your prayers. The nice men with the nice white coats and a straight-jacket for you will be there soon.
Alla is Great.
Amen
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 9:15 AM
From: Australia
Establishing Allah’s religion on the entire earth is big responsibility that requires enormous sacrifice, preparation, energy, money, etc. Therefore, Allah made it (accepting that responsibility) an integral part of embracing Islam. By embracing Islam, we are signing a business transaction with Allah. The details of this business transaction are spelled out in Taubah 111:
(Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success) Taubah 111
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 9:17 AM
From: Australia
Nehesy,
The Verse above is very serious indeed. It states the relationship between Allah and the Believers. The Verse started with a verb in the past tense form. This means that the transaction has been consummated. The terms of this transaction are as follows:
Buyer: Allah
Seller: The Believers
Goods: The seller’s person, property, money, and everything he/she possesses
Price: Paradise
Payment Due Date: Upon delivery of goods
Means of Delivery: Jihad, fighting, getting killed or killing Kuffar
Allah has fulfilled his end of the bargain.
Have you?
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 10:46 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Roystone
It's obvious that I won't change your oriented thoughts and you won't change mine. I really wish you all the best. As you see I don't have any hatred for anybody (christian, jew, animist, atheist), because this is not the purpose of life.
The first Jihad (fight) in Islam is the fight against your own weaknesses : lying , hatred, jealousy, anger etc
If I say to you that I'm perfect because being muslim, then I would be one of the most pompous ignorant. I'm still struggling against my devils like any human being.I train my body (martial arts) and my soul to reach this goal (may be I'll never will..).
I don't have any opponent except imperialism which is the root of any evil : racism, war , mass killing
McVeigh has nothing to do with Islam yet he killed many people. But you still pointing your finger to muslims. Show me one example with muslims mass killing (like nazis or communists or spanish) in history time, you won't find none.
Love and Peace yo !
Written by: RonEvane , 5 Dec 2011 11:00 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"1st. I'm not an extremist "nuts" , you don't know anything about me"
I didn't say you were an extremist "nut". Perhaps you're just a middle-of-the-road nut, to believe 9/11 was "an inside job".
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 11:38 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Ronevane
It's an inside job prove me different. Like Kennedy assassination was also an inside job. Are you among those who still think that one bullet killed JFK ?
Once again I work in investment banking this is my current job.
How the hell the traders in wall street knew few days ago that the stocks linked to AA were going down ?
In finance when you know (information only because we don't use crystal swells ) that price stocks are going down you buy put options to sell them at the highest price when the stock prices are falling down .
Written by: Nehesy, 5 Dec 2011 11:47 AM
From: France, London / Paris
Cont 1..
Speculation is based on information and more precisely “asymmetry of information”.
There is no way you make millions on the capital markets EXCEPT if you get the information before the others.
This financial fraud during 09/11 events is known in all the market places (London, US) . I was a student at that time by I found out about this fact later (it's well documented).
1. Where is the plane which crashed on the Pentagon?
2. Where is the plane which crashed on Building 7 (third tower), 300 feet from the nearest Twin Towers (North Tower) ???
So let's say you burn down your own house and then your direct neighbours are not impacted or have only small damages, but 300 feet farther a house is burnt down/collapsed and yet you say "it's because my house was in fire".
Human being are screwed up because 95 % don't use their brain..They follow like catlle, the medias diffuse many lies 24/7 so it must be true and I don't ANALYZE the fact...
Peace out !
From: United States
@Roy
Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence
--Robert Frost
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
--Mohandas Gandhi
Written by: RoyStone, 5 Dec 2011 7:38 PM
From: Australia
guillermone,
The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the "Prophet" Muhammed. Hindu child brides in India are flogged, and sometimes burned alive, if the pathetic dowry they bring is judged to be too small. The Vatican, and its vast network of dioceses, has in the past decade alone been forced to admit complicity in a huge racket of child rape and child torture, mainly but by no means exclusively homosexual, in which known pederasts and sadists were shielded from the law and reassigned to parishes where the pickings of the innocent and defenseless were often richer. In Ireland alone — once an unquestioning disciple of Holy Mother Church — it is now estimated that the unmolested children of religious schools were probably the minority
One should not lose their temper over such atrocities?
Yes, Gandhi so much liked Jesus, he was Hindu.
Written by: RonEvane , 6 Dec 2011 6:30 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Guillermone, I wish you'd make clear to me what your point is.
Is it that we should believe in the teachings of the Bible and Koran and ignore it's practitioners' interpretation of it? such as the Pope, the Ayatollah??
Granted, there are obvious metaphors that even I, can discern as such. Yet people with, presumably, great understanding of them, choose to conclude that these are mandates from" god" to justify murder, destruction, and the designation of women as second-class humans to be oppressed and used in any way as dictated by these books.
This is why there was, and there is, so much mayhem in this world and will continue to, until humanity realizes the fallacy of a god and the absurdity of religion.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Dec 2011 7:27 AM
From: Australia
"Many of us saw religion as harmless nonsense. Beliefs might lack all supporting evidence but, we thought, if people needed a crutch for consolation, where's the harm? September 11th changed all that. Revealed faith is not harmless nonsense, it can be lethally dangerous nonsense. Dangerous because it gives people unshakeable confidence in their own righteousness. Dangerous because it gives them false courage to kill themselves, which automatically removes normal barriers to killing others. Dangerous because it teaches enmity to others labelled only by a difference of inherited tradition. And dangerous because we have all bought into a weird respect, which uniquely protects religion from normal criticism. Let's now stop being so damned respectful! "
- Richard Dawkins
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Dec 2011 7:41 AM
From: Australia
RonEvane,
If you are expecting a logical response from a believer, then for get it. Faith, by it's very nature, required the abandonment of logic and rational thought.
Written by: RonEvane , 6 Dec 2011 8:20 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Yes, Roy. It's tragic that humanity wants to, so desperately believe in immortality, that they will concoct any and all fabrication to delude people, with cunning affirmation, of a god capable of punishing or rewarding, in the after-life.
All one has to do is god's wishes, they intone... and who sets those precepts? The very disturbed people in Rome and Tehran to the detriment of humanity, as a whole...tragic!
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Dec 2011 8:43 AM
From: Australia
Yes, Ron, to the determent of humanity, but not to the determent of the god-shop owners.
Just as many drug-pushers start out as addicts, preachers start out as believers. If they become Biblical scholars, some will reach the conclusion that there is no god and that it is all based on bull@hit. However they have become addicted to the money or power it gives them (or just a living without getting a real job) they don't let the cat out of the bag.
However a few highly educated and ethical senior member of the Anglican clergy in Australia have, to their credit, done just that.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Dec 2011 8:57 AM
From: Australia
Within Christianity, Evangelist churches are increasing their power, wealth and influence at the expense of the Catholic church. However I doubt they will ever attain the heights of power the Catholic church enjoyed during the Dark Ages. I don't think the Vatican is too worried. They have such massive assets in and income from real-estate, banking and secular industries, they don't need to sell faith any more, for the diminishing take from the plate on Sundays.
Even the rise in Evangelism is pathetic compared to the rise in Islam, in numbers, scope and intensity. In the interests of political correctness, tolerance and religious freedom, we are allowing Islam to get a foothold everywhere. Eventually the world will be bullied in to submission to Sharia Law, if we don't wake up soon and resist. I hope for humanities sake I am wrong. With a bit of luck I'll be dead by then, and won't need, or be able to care any more.
Written by: RonEvane , 6 Dec 2011 11:16 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
"Eventually the world will be bullied in to submission to Sharia Law".
It's possible, but I don't think so.
We, humans, have to go through these trials and tribulations in order to evolve.
The one clear-cut evidence to this process, is that we are become more and more enlightened by science everyday. With the advent of the Internet and the diffusion of knowledge thought it, all superstition and lore will die off some day, leaving only reality and self-realisation... .We will continue to progress to a time when the need for a god, will cease to be.
Written by: RoyStone, 6 Dec 2011 11:40 AM
From: Australia
Ron I hope you are right.
Submission to Sharia Law is not dependent on you believing in the existence of an invisible man in the sky. It can be just an expedient matter of avoiding having one's hand copped of or being stones to death.
Science has proven the non-existence of god for generations, and logic even longer. Yet people still have faith today. By it's very nature, faith is immune to evidence and logic. We have not needed a god to explain anything for ages, however the concept is very useful to those in power, to remain there.
As far as evolution is concerned, I think biological evolution is fat too slow to save us. Memes on the other evolve, replicate and spread very rapidly.
Written by: RonEvane , 7 Dec 2011 12:09 AM
From: United States, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Human evolution need not be biological. I believe our next step, in our journey to self-realization, is to enlighten ourselves as a race by assimilating information. The reason for religion and blind faith stems mainly from ignorance due to a lack in existing access to the sciences and the humanities. By setting a leveled playing field, I believe the internet, et al, will fill that void and allow people to compare evolution vs. creation… Given a chance, people will choose appropriately and correctly.
We are a resilient race, able to fight back that which we see as a danger to our existence. We have survived oppressive religious and ideological doctrines in the past and what’s left today, doesn’t pose the threat it once did. Communism, radical Islam and Christianity, will not stop the tide of knowledge that will revolutionize our thinking and, in the end, do away with so much of the garbage that has stifled our progress and world peace for so long. It’s just a matter of time.....
Smaller
Bigger
Close Gallery
Facebook
Digg this
del.icio.us
Technorati
Yahoo
"Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire.."
WOW!!! Get some help!
It all boils down to "Caveat Emptor" let the buyer beware.....
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE, CLEAN....BLANK.
Take a look at Europe its possibly to have a safe district for them and its not like the problem is going away wake up already you Morons just have no clue and live in your fantasy world!
and i see hernandez is a funny guy
Written by: hernandez5482, 18 Nov 2011 5:32 PM
From: United States
Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire..
reminds of this fella
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Parker_Ray
Why do you defend women who are the scum of the earth?
Save your energy and pity for the truly innocent and defenseless, like children, the elderly, the infirmed, the cripple and the abuse.
If a person decides to live an anti-social lifestyle, they should also pay the consequences and lie in the bed made.
A message to all the prostitutes, "You've made your bed, now lie in it."
But for how much?
From: United States
Isantiago77 is a puta lover.
Why do you defend women who are the scum of the earth?
i didnt know u were retarded, but can you please copy and paste the part where i was defending them?
if i recall correctly i was talking about HIV and about a previous comment.
sorry Dude, I was talking the the wrong guy.............
How can they possibly make any money?
However, there are exceptions to ther rule. I remember a friend, 60 yrs old Pto Rican who met a beautiful 32 year old while on vacation in Cuba. He went through all the protocol, one year courtship, proposal and marriage. He paid and brought his mother in-law, step-daughter and father of the child to live in the US. Believe it or not she stay with him 10 years and the reason it did not last longer was because she died of cancer while in her 40's.The is one exception
The people, the island, and the culture have such potential. Unfortunately, the potential for this beautiful place will never, and I mean never, be realized until the prostitution industry is abolished or localized, i.e. red-light zones. The vultures who patronize these women and children are only demoralizing and demeaning the human race. Most of these women are simply trying to feed their
and provide for their families. The Dominican people, especially women and Christians, should stand strong against this continual battering of their culture.
A much more friendly family-oriented vacation spot would easily replace the jobs lost by these poorly treated women.
Agreed, some valid points from your examples.
It is a mater of matching needs with what is brought to the table (on in this case, the bed).
Providing financial security in exchange for meeting other needs is fine if no one is being cheated. As a general rule, the more happiness you bring, the more you receive. There are some sad stories and some happy ones. I have never been interested in the services of a prostitute, however they meet a need for some and they should be protected and appropriately remunerated. It seems to me those who have the strongest objection to prostitution either have nothing to sell, or can't afford to buy. The church objects to any form of sexual gratification that does not have the potential to expand their flock of tithe-payers or choir-boys.
The answer is to provide a decent level of education and the opportunity to be able to find normal work. I'm quite sure given that the vast majority of these women would not be on the streets but able to live a normal decent life.
Why cant just people say it as it is? Que son ratera, sin verguensas y vagabundas...!!!
http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html
@guillermone...notice I did also say "able to find normal work" I still hold that most prostitutes, given the option, would choose a normal life and employment over having sex with whatever man is willing and able to buy their services. There are exceptions of course and no doubt a few women do enjoy the lifestyle but I suspect they are more astute than most and more choosy over who they pick up and for a much higher price than those on the street.
Some woman in the DR don't even care about the other woman as long as there needs are meet, as they "what goes around comes around". "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".
What's hilarious is most men in the DR feel prev ledge to have the extra on the side but hate the idea of their woman to do like wise.
Have to agree with you that the main reason for prostituting oneself has more to do with the inability to find decent work than choosing the lifestyle.
In my eyes, selling oneself equals slavery and brutality. This is a last-ditch effort to survive. I know most wouldn't given a viable alternative.
I don't feel they are "the scum of the earth", as some here have declared. These are desperate women without skills or any form of education who have no other way to feed their children.
I pity them and blame the govt for failure to provide enough $$ for decent schooling and their disdain for the basic needs of the people.
I was wondering how you have such insight into the inner thoughts and motivation of prostitutes. The reality is, some women chose prostitution in countries where there is a good education and welfare system. I don't know why, but perhaps it is because they can earn much more money than in a "normal" job? It may be a government's responsibility to provide adequate free education, but not other basic living needs.
Totally agree, Mr. Roy. But other countries with good education and welfare give their women a choice and those who choose to be prostitutes do so for exactly the reason you stated. "perhaps it is because the can earn more money than in a 'normal' job". True enough. The difference in DR is that the lack of resources there, FORCES them into slavery.There is no welfare. Nothing to fall back on.
In Amsterdam, for instance, they have a much greater control over the situation. They're not pimped, abuse, raped or robbed. And they can move on to another line of work, if they choose to.
No such thing in DR...Pity!
I agree it is a tragedy when women have no choice, and downright criminal if they are under age. However it is relevant that in this country, far more women are choosing to get a university education than the men, so perhaps they will have more options than their brothers, some who will turn to crime.
Regardless, having a regulated, safe area for prostitutes to work can only be better for them.
Yes, true. If prostitution is regulated, women protected and relegated to certain areas, It can only be good for everyone.
Quote: "Sexual workers' leader demands that the government, business leaders and other sectors, establish a training center with educative and social programs to benefit that population with other alternatives to make a living"
No doubt many would opt for "alternatives to make a living", if given the chance.
I'm happy to learn that more and more women are choosing to educate themselves. Perhaps some day they can become self-reliant and avoid being victims of abusers in the form of macho low-lifes.
We need more women in power to rule and set us on a less crooked path to democracy and prosperity.
As for women in power, I think that feisty young chief magistrate in Santiago would be a good stater. She has shown she has the courage to convict major criminals that others have not dared to.
Yes, I was desparate enough that I felt compeled to go rob a bank. I was so damn desparate and lacked education that the next best thing for me to do is become a burglar, better yet let steal money from some one off the street. But please have pity, feel sorry for me, my lack of resources, FORCES me to do what I do not want to do.There is no welfare. Nothing for me to fall back on so therefore I should just go do a hold-up at gun point.
Prostitution is only a "sin" when the televangelist gets caught. PERIOD. If it weren't for these stupid religious nuts spewing their retarded views onto our societies, prostitution would be just like any other professions out there. Look at a female porn star who generally makes more money than the male counterpart! Is she committing a crime on camera? Oh, maybe she is not -because the performing male is not the one paying or they are both being paid?
Now, if I am a VERY ugly, mentally/physically challenged young man who had no chance of getting a date to hopefully getting lucky, wouldn't it be easier for me to just pay for sex? Wham, Bam! Oh, thank you! Can I get a 10% discount next time, please? Instead, would you rather see me live the rest of my life sexually frustrated because I did not have the guts to [help] commit that crime?
It all comes down to Religion. Religious freaks become or influence the lawmakers who fight for the wrong causes. Therefore, WOMEN and freethinkers should equally be in power to hopefully fight for the right causes --at least, to keep things really "fair and balanced".
"Symbolically eating that body of Christ" crap should be a crime -not PROSTITUTION.
"Spray them with gasoline and set them on fire.."
I am voting for hernandez has president if he ever runs , I think we found the solution lol
Yet- I still feel like yelling out my frustration. We're reaching the end of 2011, and the following still frustrates me when people still fail to see this:
((
Failed state, f**ked-up religion. They go hand in hand. Over-population, injustice, poverty, ignorance and the oppression of women - the hallmarks of Christianity and Islam.
))
Now, is the comment right above this one sarcasm too? It is STRONG.
Politically incorrect but not sarcasm. I'm serious - deadly serious. Anyone who disagrees is either a deluded idiot, or selling the stuff.
Human nature is such that when things get rough, the tendency is to take the road of least resistance. And prostitution has the characteristic of being quick, profitable and relatively painless. After the transaction is consumated, services performed, money exchanged, everyone is happy. There is no harm done, nothing that in most cases a little soap and water cant fix. Unfortunately, prostitution regardless of how benign is high risk like Russian roulette. You keep putting that gun in your head and eventually it gets blown off.
The problem is that the doors were never there. Someone has to break down the wall and make at least an opening. Tell the corrupt officials, religious nuts that are selling ignorance to stay clear off the wall so that the people can help put holes in the wall and bring up doors...
If the cops are already abusing the girls, its not going to get better only worse.
In Amsterdam the police are not abusing the girlsthereforere it works. It wont work here.
I know one worker that is certified in windows EXCEL WORD aPower Pointint, she chooses to be a prostitute, as she can make more money, and not have to work 5 days a week.
Most of Cabanasbañs Chinesenese owned.
There are not enoughtouristursit in the DR to support all ofCabanasbañas and prostitutes on the island. The girls have far Dominican clients that tourists
Just read the statement by bienamor, he stated quite clearly,"know one worker that is certified in windows EXCEL WORD aPower Pointint, she chooses to be a prostitute, as she can make more money, and not have to work 5 days a week."
You get the picture? Personal choice is the norm and not the exception.
There is opportunity in adversty, one just need to know how to seize the moment. But few are those who prefer to take the road less traveled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada
average salary for a dominican 7000 pesos per month.
a girl makes 1000-3000 for ONE night with a Gringo...
Why do they CHOSE this line of work??
Most Dominican Girls love sex and money...
I am American and I have lived here for 5 years.
I am not here because the weather is good or I like the beer.
You have great weather in Florida and more than two beers to chose from.
Prostitution is LEGAL in the DR. Pimping is illegal.
THEY WAY IT SHOULD BE...
Only the girl should make money...
Can someone please tell me the world oldest profession..
According to the CIA world factbook, in 2007, the unemployment rate was 30.3%. And expenditure in education was 2.30% of GDP in 2009, well behind the likes of Chad, Uganda, Niger, Togo, Togo?, Senegal and Burundi which spent 8.30% in 2009.
The overwhelming reason for prostitution and crime, is the large number of poor and destitute people that figured to be 35.4% in 2010
I wish you could explain to me where poor, uneducated people can find "doors" to go through!
Good point but consider the following......Men are willing to pay for the sex services in the first place "A$$ on demand" and men pregnant women, now having said that how about.....if a woman chooses this type of work for the money and let's also say she enjoys her job it should be her own choosing.
If a man does impregnate a women in the DR two of the following happens the man Man's-up and takes responsibility or abandons the whole situation which would leave the woman to work harder to make ends meet, problem is woman age, get flabby plus competition with younger girls.
In the U.S if a man impregnates a woman and the woman decides to keep the child the man gets hit with child support or she depends on the welfare system [Obama's Mommas] for survival.
America's hoods are full of the latter mentioned, we even have a sub-cultural that thrives on this it's expressed and promoted in our gansta rap crap music.
Proof of morals are gone out the window.
Ron you speak words of a loser.......There are opportunities everywhere and anywhere you go. If you can't find them, then you make the opportunities for yourself. If life is sour and gives you lemons, you make lemondade. I can give hundres of examples of people with a winner mentality that have come from extreme poverty and became extremely successful in the poor country of the DR. People like you preach words of defeat and state that there is no opportunity, there are no doors to open, there is no hope and this is the mentality that drive women to pursue prostitution as an alternative solution to life's problems.
We have seen plenty of foreigners that come flat broke to live in the DR and see opportunity where others don't and over the years became rich. I have seen it time and time agai
Yesterday morning, I took a friend to the NJ airport to Port-au-Prince. His luggage was 58 pounds -so 8 over the limit. He had to open it up to take something out. He took out 7 pounds of a grocery bag and handed it to me to take back. When I felt a bunch of balls around my fingers, shockingly I said: Dude, these are lemons. He answered: Lemons are scarce and extremely expensive in Haiti. He then took out a can of lemon powder and put it in his handbag. TRUE story!
......
Lemons from NJ to that part of a tropical island? How do you become an entrepreneur out of that? I know we are not talking about Haiti here, and this particular experience may be better in the DR. Yet, the overall circumstances have to be somewhat similar. Let's say DR has about 3 million young people ready to make things happen. If there are doors, they are obviously all closed especially to them. Now, how the heck do they get the keys?
Please, do NOT tell me the keys are on some hooks by the closed doors, and all they would have to do is: REACH OUT!
The ability to acquire fast easy money is too much of a draw for many females who are in dire financial straights. Today more then ever before making the decision to become a women of the night or its derivatives is much easier then ever before, because moral standards and values have diminished, almost disappeared in some cases, where society no longer frowns upon those who seek this alternative vocation.
There is also something wrong about the morals , when they call this activity " mi trabajo" .
Some will fight and work as maids, or send pirates DVD or CD in the streets/beaches ( I respect them and support them with all my heart)
It's not proper to the DR because Europe is full of that Kind and sometimes even legally like in Holland or Germany. In France it's forbidden but they caught many politics with such girls . Dominique Strauss Kahn for instance has some issues with French justice these last days, French CEOs in North of France used to hire such girls for politics pleasures..
In Ukraine, it has been estimated than 1 billion dollars is got from the work of these women
Anyway a man who marries such girls is weak and has no brain...
Lack of opportunities caused mostly by corrupt and incompetent government is also the main cause of the poor's man mentality. People tend to be discouraged, unmotivated, and downright lazy. I bet you if somehow we get rid of the deep rooted corruption, the Dominican mindset would drastically change -PRODUCTIVELY.
OK- I bought a very productive piece of software for US$20 back in 1998 that I constantly use to this day -even the same version. I liked it so much and became extremely proficient at it that I joined its forums to help out others.
Why? Because the software could only be $1, there is somebody somewhere who would love to have it, but cannot afford that dollar. It could be free, and somebody cannot afford the bandwidth to download it. When someone finally has it, the electricity cannot stay on long enough for him to learn it. Some bad power surge just blew up someone's computer. By the time he saves up for that $20, other top priorities took over. That's what lack of opportunities is all about.
Like I said: I totally understand and respect your opinion. And the point I am trying to make is that:
In a country like DR, I still fail to see open doors for the 5000 beautiful senoritas.
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far,
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit--
It's when things seem worst that you must not quit
The reality is: Beautiful speeches do not necessarily open up doors in countries like the DR. In Haiti, it's even 50 times worse.
((That life is suppose to be hard, difficult, full of hurdles))
Their lives are ALWAYS hard, difficult, full of hurdles with no light at the narrow end of the "funnel" that they are all trying to get out of at the same time.
I already mentioned: It's the corrupt government's best interest to keep the public stupid. A new revolution like Occupy Santo Domingo would be a start. A total new reform must be in order. But, I still do not see that happening with the mentality of resignation that has now becoming a norm.
If you have just one leader trying to do it, you definitely know that some strange robbery would take place at a stop light... It requires a collective effort because it would be hard to assassinate 3 million people fervently asking for change.
I am not condoning violence, but people would certainly get killed in the process. When that happens, a door squeaks open. Many doors will follow.
"Success is failure turned inside out"
"The point to the story is that no matter how bad things get, There are always other options than to sell your body".
Nice words indeed! And I agree with you that certain people rise up from utter poverty with seemingly little to speak of.
I have a cousin in DR, who made it by putting himself through school without any one's help.
He worked for peanuts to pay his tuition, and never wavered. Today, he owns huge real state, including a "finca" which produces ornamental plants for export to Europe.
On the other hand, I had a relatively wealthy life-long friend whose son, in spite all he had, shunned school and turned to drugs and alcohol and died very young. My friend has been reeling ever since. Even after 11 years, he mourns his son still. --His business collapsed, his wife divorced him and took mostly all he owned. Including a very nice house. The poor guy lost all motivation and drinks every day.
continued....
...My point is this: Whether a person succeeds or not, it's all in the head. Some people get far on sheer determination. Others have it and don't appreciate it. Others, still, have it and lose it because of circumstances. Others never had the will or knowledge to make a dent in their situation. These are the people who see no other way to feed themselves and children and turn to prostitution and crime as the only way out.
We need to understand that people's brains don't think the same, hence we all see life from different perspectives. You can try to motivate all you want, but if they don't want it or "get" what you mean, it's all dust in the wind.
So, Mr. Guillermone, You claim to see opportunities where others can't, and it won't be because they are deaf and dumb, it's because they're unmotivated and uneducated.
Some very valid points and well presented. Thank you for your contribution.
My point is, lack of education is both a cause, and an effect. Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor. Bad government I believe is more an effect than a cause.
The important question is, how can the cycle be broken? Good school lunches is not the answer. There are some glaring problems that need to be fixed, urgently, like run-away population-explosion, crime-rates and destruction of the environment. Otherwise there will be no money for school lunches or new classrooms. Modernity a Metro and a newer iPhone can wait.
MINUS FOUL LANGUAGE, INSULTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS.
Looks like nobody wants to hear the truth any more.
"My point is, lack of education is both cause, and effect. Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor"
Exactly, this is what I've been trying to bring across, Roy.
It is glaringly obvious to me that, in essence, the culprit for most of what ails us today, is the passive role our govt plays in this scenario towards education. It is the biggest reason we're as screwed up as much as we are! Most people here blame the prevailing aptitude with most Dominicans when it comes to schooling, and that is wrong!. The very reason why we (or they), don't stress as much or fight as much for better funding our educational system, is because they, themselves, did not have the privilege to expand their mind through education! You see what I mean? Most just don't know!
How can anyone understand something they're not exposed to?
Bad govt is both an effect and a cause. Greedy, indifferent and irresponsible govt, begets crime, prostitution and poverty, multiplied exponentially.
I'm not saying I know much, I'm saying, I would have probably not learned (somewhat), the best language in the world nor had access to money for college, or had experienced a much different world here or had access to great book stores.(ever heard of Barnes and Noble?). Etc.
Had I not left the DR, it would have been a very different life for me.
And this is what I'm trying hard to get across. If you're not exposed to a good thing, You don't know what you're missing.
This is, essentially, my contention for funding education as it should be in the DR. It is said: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". I've seen a lot of evidence of wasted minds in this forum. Some just can't get it!
hernandez- Yep! You got it. A+
RonEvane- Thank you so, so much for your last comment. You said it beautifully:
((
How can anyone understand something they're not exposed to?
Bad govt is both an effect and a cause. Greedy, indifferent and irresponsible govt, begets crime, prostitution and poverty, multiplied exponentially.
))
No, Blackopal is not me, however I too was wondering if he or she is an imposter. The language reminds me of the Black & White Minstrel Show; white men pretending to be funny Southern "Ni@@ers."
"Modernity a Metro and a newer iPhone can wait."
I totally agree, with this and I also agree with "Attitude seems to be the most fundamental factor."
(continued)
US President Calvin Coolidge said it best:
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”
A graduate with an MBA was bragging about his siblings - "John has a law degree, Mary also has a MBA and Fred a PhD in Philosophy. However Peter the black-sheep of the family, has got a job."
By education I mean much more than academic qualifications. Education is what you're left with when you've forgotten everything you have learned. It is not so much the information but the process that makes one a better citizen, partner, parent and bread-winner, I think.
Perhaps Dominican disinterest in education is a symptom of a deeper problem? Could that be attitude? Hard work, thrift, justice and modesty don't rate too high either. Materialism, self-indulgence and vanity rate pretty highly.
That is so f#$$%^ing right, Hernandez!
Some here insist, this is a question of culture or mind-set. I won't name names, alright, I will: Guillermone, Dread and Roy.( All candidates for the coveted designation of our next Antichrist),
proclaim, our precious DR, as present location of everything representing evil incarnate! As far as they see it, no amount of prayer nor the second coming of our Lord, Jesus, will prevent Armageddon from obliterating our Eden!.... Begone from me Devils!!!
Now show, prove and explain to me how education alone will be the cure for the Dominican Republic.
williom: (( A new revolution like Occupy Santo Domingo would be a start. A total new reform must be in order. ))
hernandez said it. I said it -explicitly. How is that totally being ignored? Do you want me spell it out?
ok- I am:
R.E.V.O.L.U.T... Ah, nevermind!
Guillermone. If you think education matters not, then, I can't see how I can possibly dialogue with you, Sir... in order to understand anything at all, we, humans, firstly need to know what we're up against, where we are, and where we're going. Then we can formulate a course of action!
The first thing in resolving a problem is to fully understand what the problem really is!! Y'all insist on cultural traditions being a rigid set of rules without room for flexibility. That isn't so!
"Now prove to me how education alone will cure the Dominican Republic."
Are you serious? Education is all there is to solving all the worlds ills! It is called Science, sir. it is called, know-how. It is called,being able to distinguish right from wrong! It is called, knowing which way to go depending on circumstances! Geez! Have you not heard the expression: "Knowledge is power"?
Now, I have a question for you: If not education alone, then, what do YOU think will cure DRs predicaments? Huh?
You are, of course, absolutely correct about education and science being fundamental to, as you put it, cure DRs predicaments. I would go further and say it is essential for the survival of humanity, which looks unlikely they way we're going now.
However there is one thing even more fundamental that must happen first - open eyes and ears.
DR is a fundamentally Christian country. Actually knowing the contents of the Buy-Bull is not a requirement (in fact actively discouraged by the Catholic clergy, except the bits that are useful to them). However faith, blind faith, is essential, and the only thing that can keep you from the fires of hell, and grant you entrance to paradise, for ever.
Blind faith, by it's very nature, is immune to logic and evidence. The solution? I wish I knew, but until one is found, the rest is academic (no pun intended).
"Have you not heard the expression: "Knowledge is power"?"
WRONG.........................You are WRONG.............!!!!
Have you not heard that knowledge is useless and even detrimental if not properly used?
It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather "Applied Knowledge."
Remember, and I repeat knowledge ALONE is not power. It's applied knowledge and the word ALONE is what you missed in my previous post. When I mention that education ALONE will not solve problems for the DR, that is what I meant, but you were too busy trying to prove me wrong that you missed it.
First, individuals like yourself need to change their belief systems that knowledge is power to applied knowledge is power. So this all falls back to what I have repeatedly said, that we need to change attitudes and mentality first before we can place all of our energy and efforts only and exclusively on education.
If your god that you love doesn't like prostitution as you claim, why doesn't he get rid of it? After all if he created this entire universe and everything in it in just six days, and can listen to and consider 7 billion prayers at once, surely he could find alternative employment for your "sisters" in a flash?
The answer is blindingly obvious - "he" only exists in the deluded minds of idiots, and the business-plans of the god-shop owners, and agendas of the controllers of the masses pushing it.
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." Matthew 21:21-22
Obviously Jesus lied, or never existed. I'll put my money on the latter. One little prayer from you could prove me wrong. Do it if you can!
In today’s world in order for a person to become knowledgeable, that person has to become literate first. And I mean the basics; know how to read and write and fundamental mathematics. Acquire analytical skills and expose oneself at some level to the technologies available today and then one can move on to attain knowledge in whatever area of interest. You cannot pursue a career in engineering, architecture or medicine if the quality of elemental education you got is not up to the necessary level. That is why investing the legally appointed portion of national budget in education is so crucial for the development of a better society in DR.
1. A revolution to get rid of ALL corrupt officials. Voting them out will NOT work when the entire system is corrupt. He's the president. His wife is the vice-presidential candidate. Please!?
2. After that revolution, a focused program on education for the masses:
-- a. In the form of school and books to acquire valuable skills to succeed in life. Technical training to some - PhD to others
-- b. The use of available media (TV, Radio, Internet, Highway Billboards, Pamphlets in waiting areas) to INFORM (educate) the masses that their current mindset is not compatible to progress. When hope is clearly present, the people will change and will not litter.
......
3. Now, the third is important and very controversial. Use the available media to CONVINCE (educate) the people to get rid of that God and Jesus nonsense that's notoriously known to impede progress. There is a great change that the MESSAGE will go through people under 30.
4. Have clear instructions that TRANSPARENCY must be forced at all times with mandatory communal meetings throughout the year and throughout the entire region.
5. Find a way to get step 3 to work.
Oh really..............Well Cuba and the Soviet Union did a great job after they got rid of God and took religion out of the equation and the United States is following the same trend and we are also doing one hell of a job as well.
South Korea gets it, and dem Kia and Hyundai are all over the place.
When I read this article I thought these women feel that they have no other choice than to sell their bodies for money. I am sure these women are from poor barrios and have very little formal education, because if they did, I am sure they would have found another alternative to improve their financial adversity.
on the money!
Roy- You are always on the money.
You want Dominican's to consider the long-term when voting? You heretic!
The Bible says not to worry about tomorrow, Jesus will look after it. Live for today and trust in him.
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
Luke 12:24
If you had even been to the former Soviet Union you would know they never got rid of God - they just put more money in education and were the only country to match USA in science, clearly illustrated in the space race.
In contrast, North Korea puts it faith in their God, - Kim Il-sung (God the father - in heaven) and Kim Jong-il (God the son sent to earth for the salvation of God's chosen people). Blasphemy (criticism of God) can lead to torture, imprisonment or death. Sounds familiar? A wonderful Theocracy!
The Chinese don't have faith in God and they are forging ahead socially, economically, and are now moving up in the space race.
The Japanese don't believe in God - since they stopped believing in their deity, Emperor Hirohito and look how they've progressed since then.
USA has dropped God? Christian fundamentalism or Evangelism is on the increase, yet USA is declining socially and economically.
Meanwhile Haiti is still steeped in Catholic superstit
Good point made.....and Roy is in full steam ahead.
Guillermone says: "It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather "Applied Knowledge."
What? So now we result to semantics, huh?
Sir, knowledge is knowledge. How it's applied, depends on the individual and the purpose. It has no bearing to this argument.
In order for one to accomplish anything under the sky, one must possess the know-how. Without it, we're left scratching our collective heads wondering what to do. It is silly to think that knowledge must be "applied" in order to be of any relevance. Your play on words with this dissertation, has no substance and is pointless. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.
Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!
Luke 12:24
This is typical of many a nation's take on how to live a life or resolve a need." We need not worry about tomorrow because Allah will provide"!
"Why stress ourselves getting an education when fate is what rule our lives and we're powerless to change it, anyway"? " Today is today, and tomorrow is another day, I'll worry about it then". Or," I'll cross that bridge when I come to it"
"It is not knowledge itself that is power, but rather, 'applied knowledge".
All these allusions, parables and oxymoron, among many others, is what spells misery,chaos and the inability to get ahead in a personal and/or a national level.
As long as there are so many people believing in "tomorrow will take care of itself", the will to succeed won't be there to acquaint us with what is real and tangible.
Religion and ignorance, go hand in hand.
RonEvane: (( All these allusions, parables and oxymoron, among many others, is what spells misery,chaos and the inability to get ahead in a personal and/or a national level.
As long as there are so many people believing in "tomorrow will take care of itself", the will to succeed won't be there to acquaint us with what is real and tangible.
Religion and ignorance, go hand in hand. ))
Welcome!
Roy and I -we've been there -we've done that.
My wife and kids are right now in Maryland visiting family....
What's PM ?
"PM" means -private message-.
Click on your "my comments". You'll see what I've written.
Let me repeat what I have already stated. Maybe you missed or refused to read a previous post, but It is is well known that "knowledge" in an of itself is vainglorious and there is such a thing known as worthless knowledge. US president Coolidge said it best when he pointed out that the "world is full of educated derelicts" and there are other more desirable, just as important things to have then just plain knowledge. Do you know how many people I know with PhD's who have failed miserably or achieved little to nothing in life?
I work side by side with a higly educated, brilliant co-worker that I consider a genius, yet his accomplishments are mediocre. Why?
Unfortunately your argument is flawed, although I do not take away the value of an education as very important, it is not a quick fix, "cure it all." If knowledge and education ALONE were as great as you claim, the PANACEA for all things, then the solution is very easy and simple. All we have to do is send the whole country back to school, get everyone educated, then only then, will we have a most perfect world and all of our problems will be resolved.
If this is what you really expect and truely believe, then you will be GREATLY disappointed.
“the overall trend is that religion in on a downward cycle”
Sure some moderates are seeing the light and becoming agnostics and Atheists – a dying breed as they tend not to propagate much, or impose their beliefs on others. (Present company excluded). By comparison, fundamentalist Xtains and Muslims breed like rabbits and want their superstition taught in schools as science, and brainwash their own kids before they can even think.
“The United States of America was establish under Judeo-Christian principals”
Most of the founding fathers, despite not having the benefit of Darwin’s “Origin of the Species”, were agnostics and atheists and very keen to keep the f***ing church out of state matters. Unfortunately they are sneaking in.
And what are these “Judeo-Christian principals” - Slavery? Oppression of women? Human sacrifice or stoning to death for working on a Saturday?
“School prayer along with the pledge of allegiance was a standard practice in public school, today it is unlawful.”
Unfortunately only in enlightened states.
“Do you think there may be any possible relation to that and the 100% increase in school shootings all over the United States?”
None what-so-ever. Many of these nut-cases are religious nut-cases, and none are Atheists. How come devoutly Xtain countries have the highest crime, corruption and murder rates?
The things which you complain and constantly criticize about religion has no real basis to justify a total discredit of the Bible as completely worthless. I do not blame you for feeling the way you do but it has nothing to do with the true essence of the book
You need to separate divine truth from false religiiosity created by man. This where the problem lies, truth has been intertwined with man made lies, where people are unable to tell them apart. Ironically, religion is the culprit and resposible for that.
You blame the church as responsible for many of societies ills, while that may be particially true to a certain extent, it is the church who has failed to follow Christian principles and in essence is the cause of the deterioration of mankind.
Just as human history had a beginning, the Bible makes it very clear that it also has an end. People are not cosmic accidents wandering through time and space. Our existence has a purpose that is forever entwined with a Divine origin which science has neither the answer is nor able to explain.
Since you seem to have a direct link with the invisible man in the sky, perhaps you can inform us which parts (if any) of the book of the inerrant word of God, is "divine truth" and which parts are "from false religiiosity created by man".
I am an Athiest, by definition, because I do not believe there is an invisible man, men or multi-armed elephants in the sky to pray to. How am I an "extreme" Atheist? Because I know some history, can think, and care about humanity, and hate the damage done my your deluded belief, and those who profit from it? If Atheism is a religion, then not playing baseball is a sport.
Sure science doesn't explain everything, like answers to presumptive, flawed questions, but it is the only thing that explains anything, including the origin of life and the universe. You are obviously ignorant of molecular-biology, astronomy, anthropology, archeology and history, and are determined to remain so, in the interests of your precious faith. Amen.
Gospel truth!! We need to get down on our knees and thank God for giving us the mind to arrive at that conclusion! ...If it were not for God's infinite wisdom, we would have never empirically evinced that there are no Gods of any sort!
I, for one, will tonight, before I lay myself to sleep, say a little prayer and thank Him for making me an atheist! Amen!
Happy belated Thanksgiving, everyone!
I won't preach atheism or build a huge religious empire for the "glory of Satan". Nor will I threaten your family's life or livelihood if you do not convert. Nor will I traumatize your children with tales of eternal damnation in a sea of fire. Nor will you be beheaded, (a-la-Islam), for blasphemy. Nor will you be forced to live a "pious" life by forcing you and wife NOT to engage in sex except for procreation. Nor will I suppress science as being the "tool of the devil". Nor will I meddle in your private life. Nor will I ever ask you for money. Etc, if you do the same for me. Live out your life as best you see fit. Let me do the same, and still be friends.
"Secular Humanism" means: "live and let live". Rest assured, I will never come knocking on your door trying to convert you into my brand of religion. My God would never forgive me!
Belief in a God and resulting dogma, would be angelic, divine and beautiful, if not for all the evil inherent in it.... Alas!
However your use of the word "God" to mean your philosophy is a poor choice. Still you are in good company. Albert Einstein once used the word to mean the fundamental laws of physics, and has been misquoted by Deists ever since, trying to claim him as one of their own. By definition, he was clearly an Atheist.
Regardless, I suggest you return your voodoo-doll for a refund - clearly it is not working!
The bible talks about freedom of will and freedom of choice and you have the right to not believe in a God and no human has the right to condemn you for that. There is not biblical evidence to support the concept of a hell, that is a man made lie. There is no biblical principle to support "tithing" and demand money from believers.There is no proof celibacy or pious way of life is a requirement to Christianity. It was a religious methodology used by high ranking clergy to retain and perpetuate the wealth of the church
Just because you have been scorned in love does not mean it is not worth giving it a second chance. All I say is always give it a chance, otherwise you will never know.
"your use of the word "God" to mean your philosophy is a poor choice"
I was being sarcastic and/or trying to be funny. Geez!...I'll pray to the good Lord for understanding among us!
" . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."
Luke 16:22-28
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this flame."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
"So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .
The writers certainly themselves believed hell to be real and geographically 'beneath' the earth's surface. . .
To say this is not scientific is to assume science knows much more about the earth's interior than is actually the case. The great 'pit' [hell] would only need to be about 100 miles or less in diameter to contain, with much room to spare, all the forty billion or so people who have ever lived, assuming their 'spiritual' bodies are the same size as their physical bodies."
How about:
“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year"
Deuteronomy 14:22
There are hundreds more, if you care to actually read the book, rather than spout BS.
"I am not telling you two guys to all of a sudden believe in God, but rather to continue seeking the truth, to remain and keep your minds, and hearts open until truth is found whatever or wherever it may be"
Well said, Guillermone. Totally in concert with you on this one.
The quest for truth is what science is all about, and so far, based on empirical evidence, it tells us that there is no such thing as a sentient, all mighty creator. But until it proves us otherwise, I'll keep my mind open.
Believe it or not, friend, hope it's ok to call you "friend", I go to church on Sundays. I'm there to listen to all the good things associated with God and the bible. The pastor is well-versed and entertaining. I generally love the camaraderie found with my "brothers and sisters". Church is a great place to relax and reflect on life with all its peculiarities. In other words: It's a real blast!. Am I a hypocrite? I wonder what my church folks would think if they ever found out!...shudder!
But I will keep the search, maybe after all is said and done I will end up like Roy a full fledge Atheist or the other extreme a Pastor, Priest, Bishop or Cardinal living the life up in the Vatican. You just never know what road life will take you.
But like I said, taking an extremist stance to anything is not wise, that is why I consider myself undecided. The bottom line is no matter how valid or convincing the argument pro or against God, nobody really knows. We just dont have enough information to conclusively justify anything. I mean, think about it, even our very own existence might be a figment of the imagination and we might not really be here posting on DT
One Anglican church in an inner Melbourne suburb had lost almost all of it's congregation. The vicar continued to preach humanist principles, and continue with his pastoral work, but dropped all reference to God, Jesus or the Bible. He now fills his church to capacity at every service.
Yes the Bible talks about giving 10% of your earning, but who said that it still applies today? The tithe laws were given to Israel and instituted under Law covenant for definite and specific purposes, support Israel's temple and priesthood. It was considered a moral obligation, but there is no stated penalty if one failed to tithe. Consequently, the obligation to pay tithes would cease when Mosaic Law covenant came to an end and Christianity was born.
Early Christians supported ministerial activities, through voluntary contributions, not tithing and only when it was within the means of the donor, not fixed amounts, giving "as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."-2Cor 8:12; 9:7
So any church who uses the antiquated law of tithing to extract money from its members has falsely twisted bible teachings to their advantage.
Gehenna corresponds to "the second death, the lake of fire," a symbol of everlasting or final destruction found in Rev 20:14. While sheol and hades refers to the normal death of mankind.
The image of people suffering death in eternal damnation of intense heat is an idea which originates and dates back to pagan worhip, among the ancient people of Babylon, Assyria and Egypt. What the bible actually teaches is that "hell" is simply the common grave of the dead and not a place of fiery torment
Another reason why we should not completely dismiss the bible as irrelevant for today is because it still remains to be historically accurate and when it touches upon science it is also exact. Aproximately, 1,500 years ago while the ancient world hung on to mythological beliefs the bible clearly stated that planet earth was "hanging upon nothing."-Job 26:7 And that its shape was a round sphere-Isa 40:22- I don' know about you but these two examples were ahead of its time.
Good....give'um the book.
Atheist are all closet haters.
The Bible was definitely not "ahead of its time". Many civilizations knew the earth was a sphere long before. The Egyptians had even calculated the diameter to within 2%! It was not until Christianity caused he Dark Ages, and promoted the flat-earth idea, to support the Bible and the authority if Rome. Even through the Dark Ages, when your church punished those who spoke of a spherical earth and a Helios-centric solar-system, astronomers knew better.
So the original Mosaic Laws are no longer compulsory? Not according to Jesus' Sermon in the Mount, where he stated the exact opposite.
I love the way Xtians use the inerrant word of God, the Holly Buy-Bull to support a point, but interpret-away the bits that are inconvenient or contradictory. Either all of it is true or none, take your pick!
I think you need "the book" more than I do, since you obviously have no idea of its contents.
I for one don't hate closets.
However if you are talking about man's inhumanity to man, give me Atheist "hate" before Xtian "love" any day. Atheism has never tortured or killed anyone. Christianity has done it to millions in the name of Jesus' "love".
Why must you twist the truth.....man in his evil nature will look for any excuse to justify his inhumanity towards men.
Next time try spewing the truth.
If the Bible is "the truth" then I do not twist it. I quote it word-for-word and even give the book, chapter and verse so you can check for yourself. I suggest you read it before demonstrating your total ignorance again.
Why must you take such extremes?
I keep telling you that what you actually complain about are actions of the church, not the Bible. The church is responsible for killing what little faith you had, if you ever had any.
What I do advise you to do is stop blaming the gun for the murder, blame the person who pulled the trigger.
The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church, on the instructions of Holy Roman Emperor Constantine, at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE from a collection of anonymous mythological stories from unknown authors, for the purpose of unifying the various faiths throughout the empire. Smart move. You cannot separate the church from the Bible.
Yes, I had a faith as a child, perhaps stronger than yours. However the church did not kill it. Learning science and thinking logically did. Still it was history that taught me what an evil thing deistic religions like Christianity and Islam are.
Your gun analogy is appropriate. The reality is, a gun has only one purpose - to kill people. It is not used to grow cops, build houses or cure the sick.
"I for one, don't hate closets."
Roy, You're too much, brother!
My vote for best quote of the month!
"Now about the concept of Hell. This is another man made idea."
You can interpret the "concept" any which way you want. I choose to read it exactly as it is written and interpret it verbatim! Why should I not? And how do you know YOUR interpretation is the correct one? Did God enlighten you on this?
People for ages, have been conveniently "reading between the lines" to suit their particular religious bent. This is why there are so many branches of the same Christianity root and few agree with the other on what the Bible REALLY mean when this or that is said.
My carnal brother, A blind, religious fanatic, tells me that my "take" on this:-- "so God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Gen: 1:27.-- is wrong. That God didn't really mean that we, humans, really look like Him. He went on to tell me what the Bible really means by it. I think he's full of shit; and so is religion in general.
A chef can prepare food to create a healthful beneficial meal to nourish and sustain the body. But he can also do the opposite, cook high cholesterol, high salt, artery clogging dinners which over time can potentialy kill you or even poison you. Who are you going to blame? The meal? No you just better make sure that the food you eat will nourish and keep you alive and well. If you know the cook continues to feed junk food but you eat it anyway, that is your fault. But the solution is NOT starvation, yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are spiritually starving yourself for fear of contracting a dietary related illness.
Nearly all the protestant churches subscribe to the same creed-the Nicene, Athanasian and Apostles' creeds-and these profess some of the very same doctrines that Catholicism has been teaching for centuries. Most of those teachings are unscriptural, have no basis in the bible and gave the people a distorted view of the Divine truth. Rather then aid believers in their search for truth, the numerous sects and denominations that came into existence have only steered people into the path of more confusion and as a result people remain lost.
"Most of those teachings are unscriptural, have no basis in the bible and gave the people a distorted view of the Divine truth."
Please excuse my ignorance. What exactly do you mean by "a DISTORTED view of the Divine truth"? You mean to tell me that you're totally" in the know" as to what is distorted? and others are not? is that it?
"most of those teachings are 'unscriptural'? Really? You can tell the difference? I can't! And How do you know they are?
Tell, Mr. Guillermone, do you take literally, the Bible's declaration that we were made in God's image? Huh?
Does it not make you wonder what role religion has played in the many wars that have devastated mankind. Why has so many people been killed in the name of religion. The Crusades, Inquisition, conflicts in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, the slaughter between Iraq and Iran(1980-88) Hindu-Sikh clashes in India, the role Catholics played in the two world wars.
Now what does the bible say: "My kingdom is not part of this world, If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is my kingdom is not from this source"
True religion remains untainted by worldly politics and conflicts. It is neutral in time of war and does not condone war or personal violence.-Micah 4:2-4, Rom 3:3, 4: 2 Tim 3:16-17, 1 Thes 2:13.-John 18:36/ Jam 1:27
From history.
Since you have obviously never read the Bible you believe in, it is even less likely you have read an real history.
Can I suggest some Superman comics might be more fitting for you?
Gillermone, I think your contorted "interpretation" is required here then:
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".
Jeremiah 50:21-22
Or can you make this one "nice" for us?
"But if this charge is true and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst."
Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
But I understand Roy, you are begining to show signs of weakness. Are you running out of ammo? It always happens when ever I see an opponent begin to or resorts to personal attacks, insults and ridicule as his principal arm of defense.
Let keep this battle civil, perhaps in the cateogry of a military exercise rather then a bar room brawl or a street fight among teen-agers attempting to pick a fight on a local kid in the neighborhood who appears not to fit-in with the rest of the gang.
God can't either!
He, in his divine and everlasting wisdom, commanded Moses to never make a graven image (sculpture) of anything on earth, in heaven or the seas below, (on threat of eternity in hell, you know, the hell that's not in Guillermone's Bible) then later told him to make an image made of brass of a snake wrapped around a rod.
Read up about the Nicaean Councils, which Gospels were selected, which ones were rejected, and by who.
Then check the Biblical references I have given you, to see if they are true.
Then come back to this site and admit that you were wrong.
Then maybe we can continue?
Guillermone.
No one I know of today, or historically, have taken to heart what believing in your God and loving one another is all about!---- Anyone who does not love, remains in death . Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer.----1st John14,15.----....people have ignored this command from their God to commit the most horrendous crimes imaginable!... This is my contention: If this is the word, why is your god so biased in favor of one people (Israel) and hate another, (Philistines). Your bible and the Koran so full of contradictions! And are nothing less than instruments of hatred, division, and genocide.
The greatest tragedy afflicting humanity is believing in supernatural beings (gods) worshipped by people who can't understand why the sky is blue!
Not only is your god, bible and religion a sham, it is also the best reason why I and many more of us are atheists: Contented and appreciative to be reflective, tolerant, curious and open-minded, but not spiritual fools.
> Good : use Atom science to produce cheap energy
> Bad : use Atom science to produce weapons (H bomb)
So morals, philosophy, or something call religion is needed and should be associated to each knowledge.
Ancient people understood that. In Egypt they would test you before you enter the clergy ( with huge science: chemestry, astronomy, magic, medecine, geometry, philosophy etc). Thales the Greek learnt everything he knew from them during 22 yrs but they tested him hardly because he was repelled even with a recommendation from an userper non-native pharoah.
Now for Atheism. Today in the 21st our basic law codes are based on religious books:
- You won't kill
- You won't steal
- You won't lie etc
These religious laws existed before the Bible ( Ancient, Psalms,Gospel), and the Quran
Ancient Egypt , Sumer, Aztecs etc had all these codes. They had also brilliant civilizations with of course few "bugs"...
Communism and Capitalism are two faces of the same coins :
- US Bankers financed the communist rebels who destroyed the Russian Monarchy
Capitalism is materialism and also Atheism
- Only material, wealth, accumulation of profit is the ultimate goal. They even put "In God we Trust" next to a Freemason symbol (Pyramid + Eye) in their dollar bill : it's like mixing cashmere and polyester...
As history showed us some hypocrites used religion for their own benefit (wealth) : Catholic Monks with slave plantations in Visigoth spain, France, Italia..And in the new world like in Brazil. Ferdinand and Isabela did not care about the soul of indian on black folks, only wealth was their ultimate goal
These examples are valid for all religions : hindouism, Islam, Christanity, Judaism etc. They used religion for their own goal but their morals was foul.
certainly the civilizations you mention, as well as Christianity and Islam, have some moral codes forbidding killing, stealing and lying. However that never applied to their enemies. In fact they endorse all manner of atrocities against outsiders, heathens, heretics and infidels, and even women. The only philosophies that promote universal humanitarian principles are those devoid of any god, ie, Atheist philosophies like Buddhism, Shintoism and Secular Humanism.
The abolition of slavery is very recent in the history of mankind, and capital punishment is still practiced in many countries.
One of the last example was the nazi themselves who were Atheists/Pagans they destroyed all the crosses when they invaded France and had very bad words against Jesus and his mum (PBUT) .
Nazis were brilliant :
- scientists : wolswagen, V1, V2, war weapons => US and Russia used the nazi scientists to move forward
- Warriors
- Srategists
But they did not have good morals :
- Extermination of innocent people
- Calling some "race" inferior (including europeans like French) or superior
- Atheists Pagans
Knowledge and Morals/Philosophy are to put together.
If you are a martial art teacher there are some techniques (for killing) that you would teach to only 1 , 2 or 0 students if none of them deserve it . It's a responsability...Your soul/spirit must be trained hardly 1st : character testing (like washing the toilets), get knowledge to heal, Train your soul in order to avoid arrogance, fast etc
Knowledge without Morals/Philosphy is highly dangerous ..
I'm a practising muslim and I read Buddha and Confucius and do agree with their philosophy.
As I said above some Christians ,Muslims and others did very bad things. But if we have a look at their books it was forbidden. So like ancient Egyptians said they are like Donkeys carrying books, they did not understood the message/philosophy/morals.
Not all christians/muslims/others enslaved, killed or destroyed people: a huge part of their groups understood the message but as a proverb says " the 2 or 3 trees falling on the forest make more noise than the other trees which are growing"
Peace
Excuse me for butting in.
Islam has always advocated violence as a way to repress and oppress descent, even among themselves. “Death to the infidels and non-believers”, they roar. It is horrific that in this day and age, a person can be, at best flogged and at worst, beheaded, simply for uttering words considered “blasphemy’ by the Ayatollah, et al.
Belonging to Islam can be downright dangerous, to say the least. One can be accused of anything from adultery to homosexuality and be put to death. As a matter of fact, simply writing my opinions on this can be reason enough for a world-wide hunt for my balls. Shudder! On the other hand, I like to think I’m safe here in my room where nobody can find me. Sure glad I’m no Salman Rushdie!
1) Hitler was not an Atheist, he was a devout Catholic (Christian), advocated all Germany to be Catholic, had close ties and agreements with the Pope and the Vatican, preached from the Bible, which gave him the justification for the Holocaust.
2) The Bible and the Koran are full of evil shit, justifying all manner of atrocities including murder, genocide, rape, pillage, slavery, racism, oppression of women (I've probably left a few out).
yet you still refuse to learn or check the evidence for yourself, still spouting the same utter bull@hit as if it were history. Ignorance and stupidity are bad enough, but determination to remain thus is worse. It's called "faith".
How dare you say "Peace" after promoting the greatest cause of war!
Example: Hitler a devout Catholic with close ties to the Vatican, preached the bible and justified the Holocaust. Therefore, the bible is full of evil shit and responsible for the crimes against humanity.
The question: was it Hitler who justified crimes against humanity or was it the bible ?
What is the cause and what is the effect?
Interpreting causation as a deterministic relation means that if A causes B, then A must always be followed by B. In this sense, war does not cause deaths, nor does smoking cause cancer. Direct cause must be demonstrated to hold an offender liable. And in all denouncements, you have failed to prove that, but rather pointed exclusively on the act by itself
Religion causes mind-numbing, which causes blind faith (do not question god), which causes suicide bombers, which causes chaos, anarchy, confusion and destruction, which causes people to seek answers for the holy mess, which causes religion, which causes......
EXACTLY !!! and PRECISELY !!!!!! You got the point.
I fully agree and accept that organized religion is the culprit and completely responsible for precisely the CAUSE of those effects.
When you say "God's word" are you referring to the Bible, or do you have some special dialog with His Divine Invisibleness that we, the churches and he rest of humanity are not privy to?
If it is the Bible, then fu@kingwell read it! The words, printed on the paper. Not someone's interpretation, interpolation or spin. It's all there in black and white, and its the inerrant word of God, and like I said, full of evil shit, justifying all manner of atrocities including murder, genocide, rape, pillage, slavery, racism, oppression of women. Don't take my or anyone else's word for it - just read it. If you still can't see it, then come back to me and I'll give you the books, chapters and verses to look up, okay?
Now shut the f@ck-up and read!
The bible is a complex book which takes years of intense study just to master its basic principles. And the reason why your extremist approach to the subject matter is quite unsensible. It is never wise to go far to the left nor the far right with regards to the bible. At least try is to make an attempt at understanding the others point of view and stop being so black and white with your approach. The bible is no way in hell what you make it out to be, definitely not the distorted view firmly set in your mind.
The real problem is not the book but you. You have a chip on your shoulder and wrongly use the bible to take out your pent up frustrations
'And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
“This bread is my body; this wine is my blood”
I quoted these bible texts to give an example of why we can't and must not take the bible literally.
If we did then hey, there would be a bunch of one eye Christians walking around eating human flesh and washing it down with a jug of Blood. The bible does neither condone Canabalism nor the injestion of blood of any kind.
The bible says that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit so it is quite obvious that we are not to pluck out our eye or cut off our hand. If we did that we would be called Moslems not Christians.
Before bragging out you should do your research Hitler was not christian neither the nazi war lords. i Know you're a dumb islamophobic because you haven't read the qu'ran and just repeat what all the médias say Like a parrott . Muslims stay 700 yrs in spain yet the spanish are Still alive as a people. Tasmanians or the true Australians can't say the same thing. Japanese practise some of the religions you call safe yet they cause many havoc on asia
The media is wrong, the recognized historians are wrong, the treaties between Hitler and the Vatican are wrong, the Nazi uniforms were wrong, Hitler's book, writings and speeches are wrong, so Hitler must be wrong about being a Catholic too! Maybe you can enlighten him when you get to heaven? Perhaps you can pray to Mahomet to pass on the message, when he takes a break from de-flowering virgins?
"Muslims stay 700 yrs in spain yet the spanish are Still alive as a people."
Only because we kicked your Islamic asses out of our territory.
Que viva El Cid!!! Que viva España libre!!!
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued."
Surah 9:27-
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." Surah 8:36-
Haha I was not there man but one thing is sure though the tainos would have trade 1 muslim for 1000000 spanish. Spanish conquistadores killed More people than Hitler . Plus they were looking a way to avoid the muslims in the seas this is why colombus the fake @ss sailor "discovered " the WI and provoked the biggest genocide of history. Spanish of that time were greedy criminals. Spanish saw the light only after they have been educated by muslims....and yet the first thing they did when kicked out the moors
Koran 4.56 - (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
Good golly, miss molly! I've better convert!
Those 72 virgins are sounding mighty tempting!
It's better we give up , atheists are not better than the others, communists and nazis killed More people than anyone. Muslims themselves were genocided when conquered by the mongols who killed around 1,5 millions. It's in the history books but nobody Will tell it. And once again nazi war lords were atheists pagans somebody here gave you the clues but hey I guess it's hard to rid off of some believes
sake of the religion of Allah. It is also our duty to send a call to
all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to
embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam.
Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."
Osama bin Laden (1957 - 2011)
Yes we all need to be educated by Muslims. I suggest starting with a history of Islam and its founder, Muhammad at:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm
"Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors!
"There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.'”
The Ayatollah Khomeini
Mohammed Bouyeri, explaining in court why he stabbed Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh to death. (Bouyeri was holding a Qur'an at the time).
Not as bad as the Spaniards destroying the baths, 500 years ago?
Here's an update on your religion of peace. Islam:
Monthly Jihad Report
November, 2011
Jihad Attacks: 151
Countries: 23
Religions: 5
Dead Bodies: 685
Critically Injured: 1087
"Spanish conquistadores killed More people than Hitler."
Right you are, Nehesy. And they were justified because God "told them" to convert the "pagans" or inflict pain, suffering and death, for they( the Impious) were already dead in the eyes of God.
It's horrific what religious fanatics would do in the "name of our God". Christianity and Islam have caused and are still causing untold suffering on this earth. The extremists, radical nuts, in your rank and file, are the true genocidal maniacs afflicting humanity today!
So "suicide and Killing are both forbidden"? By who? Certainly not your "Holly" books, there are scores of passages promoting them, and endorsed by your Holly men and followers of Islam.
Yes you are right about one thing.
I hate Islam, even more than Christianity, and that's saying something. Both are enemies of peace, justice, humanity, science and the environment. Your wish of peace on me is a transparent lie.
Regarding those 72 heavenly virgins, I was wondering, what happens to them after they have been de-flowered by the incuming suicide-bombers? Are they surgically "re-virgined" by the same procedures many Islamic brides are subjected to here on earth?
"incuming"? You're too much Roy!
"Are they surgically re-virginized"? Man! That would be a job to die for!
First you're older than me so I won't use any insults towards you since it's only a debate, we can discuss without any bad words and respect each others.
1st. I'm not an extremist "nuts" , you don't know anything about me. If I were an extremist I would not put my feet in the DR ( prostitution , drugs etc). Actually "yo soy un tiguere" I went up and down the DR when I was single. Know that I'm married I still go there . I even lived in the campo for few days ( no luz, no proper toilets, no clean water ).
I have christian family ( mi abuela) . My spiritual teacher ( martial art teacher) is a true spanish born in London and his spiritual teacher is an Indonesian woman, he is one of the top guys I have ever met in my life. One of my Intellectual "enlighter" is an American guy from Brooklyn (74 yrs) also a top executive manager in the Asset management company I worked in London.
The true extremist nuts at the moment we are talking are the USA
So my point is I have a brain and I love any good people (white, yellow, black , jew, christian, animist etc) , I'm not a cattle thinker like 95 % of the western propaganda victims oriented by the medias (including you and Roy)
- 11/9 is an inside job : I work in Investment Banking and 11/9 hides one of the biggest financial fraud of history. Why the western Media don't say to people that Traders made millions out of this Attentat huh ( via investing on put options 5, 4 days before the attack)?
- Many of the so called "19" terrorists are alived at least 5 of them.
- Many muslims died in these attacks
- Where is the plane which crashed on the Pentagone ?
- Why nobody says that a third tour went down on the same area and no planes crashed on it but was exploded with army materials (plastic) ?
I thought you were a clever man but you're also "dormant" senior ronevane
2nd Atheists (Nazis , Communists) and so called Christians have killed more people than anyone , US being one of the worst :
- Vietnam burning down innocent people with Napalm
- Hiroshima and Nagasaki
- Dresde Bombing (allies)
- US soldiers Raping and Killing in Irak and Afghanistan. Torture in Abughraib and Guantanamo
- How many innocent victims have been killed in Afghanistan and Irak , huh ?
- How many innocent victims have been killed by US Foreign Policy ?
US leaders put " In God we Trust" in the dollar bill, but even the founding fathers (most of them freemasons) didn't care about their fellow christians ( Washington owned white slaves fasely called Indentured Servants).
English wiped out the Natives the North America Natives
Spanish , English, French , Danish wiped out the natives of the carribeans islands
Spanish wiped out the natives of South America, Portuguese helped them in that task in Brazil
English convicts almost wiped out The Aboriginals of Australia
The Tasmanians don't exist anymore
Atheists armed children with guns (and destroyed their mind with pornographic literature) in Spain during the civil war
Staline, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, or Napoleon were Muslims?
It’s also Muslims who killed the Kennedy brothers …
Killing, Bombing, raping, burning etc have been the Trademark of those using the name of Christ and the Atheists (I include US, France, UK etc) during the last centuries and yet you guys hate Islam and Muslims? As I already said above you're only a victim of the TV propaganda…
Give one line in Qu'ran where it is said that suicide is allowed.Your soul is full hatred so you have to make up things to justify your nonsense.
Anders Behring Breivik is also an example of what hatred towards others could produce. You guys should focuse on your owns before speaking about muslims. You copy and paste the lines out of the context. With these methods Mein Kampf could be seen as a good book..
Atheists : Communists, Nazis , Satanists, Capitalists
Shintoists/Buddhism :Japanese killed, raped, burned all over Asia
Christians in general: Genocide in all continents including Europe against their fellow brothers or others (Inquisition, Nazis concentration camps). English being the 1st to create the concentration camps in South Africa and the Boers were the victims.
Hinduism: Extremists who burnt down muslim men, women children in India
Muslims : Enslaved millions of Europeans and Africans, Killed, raped, burnt down
Jews : Genocide in Palestine
Peace Yo !
Help me here: Your total ignorance of history, and determination to remain ignorant I understand - it's called faith, in your case, Islamic faith.
However I am struggling with your logic:
What we now consider atrocities, committed by others hundreds of years ago, justifies the atrocities continuing today by Muslims, carrying out the vile instructions in the Koran?
"[A] martyr’s privileges are guaranteed by Allah; forgiveness with the first gush of his blood, he will be shown his seat in paradise, he will be decorated with the jewels of belief, married off to the beautiful ones, protected from the test in the grave, assured security in the day of judgment, crowned with the crown of dignity, a ruby of which is better than this whole world and its entire content, wedded to seventy-two of the pure Houris (beautiful women of Paradise) and his intercession on the behalf of seventy of his relatives will be accepted."
This hadith source that bin Laden cites puts together different Quranic passages describing Islamic heaven, complete with beautiful virgins (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78)
You're a faker, and you prove it once again here. I asked you to show the word "Suicide" in the Qu'ran you showed up with the word "martyr"
Do you know the definition of a martyr (shahid) in Islam ?
I definitely know history more than you and I challenge you to show me that I'm wrong. Hitler was an Atheist like you (your australian fellow citizen give you some clues but you want to stay blind..) , this is why you're upset. Communists are also atheists and enslaved (goulags) and killed more than anyone.
Atheists/Communists/Nazis/ Satanists/Capitalists are part of the same family
About islam crimes in 2011.
I ask you to reproduce the victime figures :
- US wars in Afghanistan and Irak
- Palestinians victims in Palestine
- The hundred thousands who died all over the world because of the multinationals firms and banks evil actions
Then the figures will tell us who is more peaceful than the others.
Muslim represent the 2nd religion in this world ( I would say first because church are empty all over the world) yet we don't have a world war, because we are peaceful. There are million of muslims in China , most of them fantastic martial artists, have you ever heard of a bombing down there due to muslims ?
Western powers ( I did not say religions) are the biggest criminals in all historical time, you can't prove me anything different and you know it deep down your heart. I would understand that a man who lost family in 09/11 would hate muslims (even if it's an inside job). What is your excuse except that you watch TV, listen to radio and read newspapers (all of them control by some people who hate muslims) ?
For 09/11 once again It's true one the biggest financial fraud occured that day. It must be Bin Lahden who called the Wall Street Traders and told them to invest in put options.
And let me tell you faith and science are linked together, this why the Fibonacci sequence is present in the nature and even the human species (DNA coding). If you study a little bit ( and not following the propaganda) you may see the light.
You hate islam and muslims good for you . An IPAD, or computer are high technology materials. If I say to you that it just popped up from the earth from raw materials you would tell me that I'm a stupid donkey , right ?
The universe building or just the human body is 1 trillion times more complex yet some fools said that we evolved from apes when the science shows totally different. The Universe tuning is one of the most terrific evidence. Remember Roy I'm a scientist , I studied maths and stats for years and used them everyday to do modelization , and I'm telling you it's impossible that we reached so much precision ( up to 27 figures after the comma) by chance...I repeat IMPOSSIBLE...
Now Atheists scientists showed up with the multiuniverse theory. We are supposed to have many universes and just by chance (like loto) our universe had been set up will the elements necessary for our life.
Roy do your life as you want and let people do as they want . Peace !
Oh I get it now - thanks for the explanation. "Islamic suicide bombers" is a vicious misnomer, created by the infidel media. They are "martyrs to Islam"!
Please inform the media, on threat of death by Holy Fatwa, to use the correct nomenclature.
So, because not every Muslim is a martyrs to Islam, that makes it a religion of peace?
So 9/11 was an "inside job"? Of course! How dare al-Queda claim credit for what the CIA did. They must have been brainwashed by the western media too!
09/11 is an inside job
Where is the plane who crashed on the Pentagone ?
Where is the plane who crashed on the third tour in NYC ?
I'm waiting for your evidence...
Here is your lesson for today, from the Koran -
Sura 4:74
In this verse the Arabic switches from jihad to qital (q-t-l), and this word means warring, fighting and killing with swords, and it again becomes the currency for fatally selling or trading this life for the Hereafter.
4:74 "Let those of you who are willing to trade the life of this world for the life to come, fight [q-t-l] in God’s way. To anyone who fights [q-t-l] in God’s way, whether killed [q-t-l] or victorious, We shall give a great reward. (Haleem)"
Relax and, say your prayers. The nice men with the nice white coats and a straight-jacket for you will be there soon.
Alla is Great.
Amen
(Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success) Taubah 111
The Verse above is very serious indeed. It states the relationship between Allah and the Believers. The Verse started with a verb in the past tense form. This means that the transaction has been consummated. The terms of this transaction are as follows:
Buyer: Allah
Seller: The Believers
Goods: The seller’s person, property, money, and everything he/she possesses
Price: Paradise
Payment Due Date: Upon delivery of goods
Means of Delivery: Jihad, fighting, getting killed or killing Kuffar
Allah has fulfilled his end of the bargain.
Have you?
It's obvious that I won't change your oriented thoughts and you won't change mine. I really wish you all the best. As you see I don't have any hatred for anybody (christian, jew, animist, atheist), because this is not the purpose of life.
The first Jihad (fight) in Islam is the fight against your own weaknesses : lying , hatred, jealousy, anger etc
If I say to you that I'm perfect because being muslim, then I would be one of the most pompous ignorant. I'm still struggling against my devils like any human being.I train my body (martial arts) and my soul to reach this goal (may be I'll never will..).
I don't have any opponent except imperialism which is the root of any evil : racism, war , mass killing
McVeigh has nothing to do with Islam yet he killed many people. But you still pointing your finger to muslims. Show me one example with muslims mass killing (like nazis or communists or spanish) in history time, you won't find none.
Love and Peace yo !
"1st. I'm not an extremist "nuts" , you don't know anything about me"
I didn't say you were an extremist "nut". Perhaps you're just a middle-of-the-road nut, to believe 9/11 was "an inside job".
It's an inside job prove me different. Like Kennedy assassination was also an inside job. Are you among those who still think that one bullet killed JFK ?
Once again I work in investment banking this is my current job.
How the hell the traders in wall street knew few days ago that the stocks linked to AA were going down ?
In finance when you know (information only because we don't use crystal swells ) that price stocks are going down you buy put options to sell them at the highest price when the stock prices are falling down .
Speculation is based on information and more precisely “asymmetry of information”.
There is no way you make millions on the capital markets EXCEPT if you get the information before the others.
This financial fraud during 09/11 events is known in all the market places (London, US) . I was a student at that time by I found out about this fact later (it's well documented).
1. Where is the plane which crashed on the Pentagon?
2. Where is the plane which crashed on Building 7 (third tower), 300 feet from the nearest Twin Towers (North Tower) ???
So let's say you burn down your own house and then your direct neighbours are not impacted or have only small damages, but 300 feet farther a house is burnt down/collapsed and yet you say "it's because my house was in fire".
Human being are screwed up because 95 % don't use their brain..They follow like catlle, the medias diffuse many lies 24/7 so it must be true and I don't ANALYZE the fact...
Peace out !
Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence
--Robert Frost
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
--Mohandas Gandhi
The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the "Prophet" Muhammed. Hindu child brides in India are flogged, and sometimes burned alive, if the pathetic dowry they bring is judged to be too small. The Vatican, and its vast network of dioceses, has in the past decade alone been forced to admit complicity in a huge racket of child rape and child torture, mainly but by no means exclusively homosexual, in which known pederasts and sadists were shielded from the law and reassigned to parishes where the pickings of the innocent and defenseless were often richer. In Ireland alone — once an unquestioning disciple of Holy Mother Church — it is now estimated that the unmolested children of religious schools were probably the minority
One should not lose their temper over such atrocities?
Yes, Gandhi so much liked Jesus, he was Hindu.
Guillermone, I wish you'd make clear to me what your point is.
Is it that we should believe in the teachings of the Bible and Koran and ignore it's practitioners' interpretation of it? such as the Pope, the Ayatollah??
Granted, there are obvious metaphors that even I, can discern as such. Yet people with, presumably, great understanding of them, choose to conclude that these are mandates from" god" to justify murder, destruction, and the designation of women as second-class humans to be oppressed and used in any way as dictated by these books.
This is why there was, and there is, so much mayhem in this world and will continue to, until humanity realizes the fallacy of a god and the absurdity of religion.
- Richard Dawkins
If you are expecting a logical response from a believer, then for get it. Faith, by it's very nature, required the abandonment of logic and rational thought.
Yes, Roy. It's tragic that humanity wants to, so desperately believe in immortality, that they will concoct any and all fabrication to delude people, with cunning affirmation, of a god capable of punishing or rewarding, in the after-life.
All one has to do is god's wishes, they intone... and who sets those precepts? The very disturbed people in Rome and Tehran to the detriment of humanity, as a whole...tragic!
Just as many drug-pushers start out as addicts, preachers start out as believers. If they become Biblical scholars, some will reach the conclusion that there is no god and that it is all based on bull@hit. However they have become addicted to the money or power it gives them (or just a living without getting a real job) they don't let the cat out of the bag.
However a few highly educated and ethical senior member of the Anglican clergy in Australia have, to their credit, done just that.
Even the rise in Evangelism is pathetic compared to the rise in Islam, in numbers, scope and intensity. In the interests of political correctness, tolerance and religious freedom, we are allowing Islam to get a foothold everywhere. Eventually the world will be bullied in to submission to Sharia Law, if we don't wake up soon and resist. I hope for humanities sake I am wrong. With a bit of luck I'll be dead by then, and won't need, or be able to care any more.
"Eventually the world will be bullied in to submission to Sharia Law".
It's possible, but I don't think so.
We, humans, have to go through these trials and tribulations in order to evolve.
The one clear-cut evidence to this process, is that we are become more and more enlightened by science everyday. With the advent of the Internet and the diffusion of knowledge thought it, all superstition and lore will die off some day, leaving only reality and self-realisation... .We will continue to progress to a time when the need for a god, will cease to be.
Submission to Sharia Law is not dependent on you believing in the existence of an invisible man in the sky. It can be just an expedient matter of avoiding having one's hand copped of or being stones to death.
Science has proven the non-existence of god for generations, and logic even longer. Yet people still have faith today. By it's very nature, faith is immune to evidence and logic. We have not needed a god to explain anything for ages, however the concept is very useful to those in power, to remain there.
As far as evolution is concerned, I think biological evolution is fat too slow to save us. Memes on the other evolve, replicate and spread very rapidly.
Human evolution need not be biological. I believe our next step, in our journey to self-realization, is to enlighten ourselves as a race by assimilating information. The reason for religion and blind faith stems mainly from ignorance due to a lack in existing access to the sciences and the humanities. By setting a leveled playing field, I believe the internet, et al, will fill that void and allow people to compare evolution vs. creation… Given a chance, people will choose appropriately and correctly.
We are a resilient race, able to fight back that which we see as a danger to our existence. We have survived oppressive religious and ideological doctrines in the past and what’s left today, doesn’t pose the threat it once did. Communism, radical Islam and Christianity, will not stop the tide of knowledge that will revolutionize our thinking and, in the end, do away with so much of the garbage that has stifled our progress and world peace for so long. It’s just a matter of time.....