leo's broke

I hope nobody comes anymore and that they die.

if the marrriage does not owrk out then what is the cost too get out of the marriage? is it also 300% higher?

Firstly, where are the statistics concerning:

1. Current Fees?

2. The Government's take?

3. Competitors fees across the Caribbean?

Then we can begin to have an intelligent discussion. Without these stats, what do we know?


DT get on this.

Wow I remember I pay 5000 pEsos 3 months ago I could jus imagine how much now muy Malo por nuestro bastards government eso no es bueno para el pais

what else is new? i just saw a minubus driver charge two tourists 200 pesos each for a 20 peso ride. saw it first hand...no hearsay. then one wonders why Puerto Plata went the way of the dodo bird.

The market as you well know Dread has something call "market corrections" If companies ask for too much, demand is likely to fall. So, if these folks want to test the waters, so be it. Let's see what happens. I would like to see an analysis of this issue with stats. We're told many things, but until good solid work is done, it's like shooting in the dark. From this article, one might surmise that the fees asked by the government are "killer fees" More information is needed.

Let them throw something in.

Like a divorce strip-coupon as part of the marriage certificate.

It'll be redeemed in 50% of cases.

When this was first reported some while ago I checked with the local Abogado we use for formalizing all the paperwork for marriages and she advised that the fee for foreigners had been increased from RS$10,000 to RS$ 15,000 a 50% increase. Steep enough, but in $ terms only about $135. Maybe this guy is talking about cases where the ceremony is held on the beach and the officiant is requested to attend there as against a ceremony held in the civil office.

Adrian,

Good that you provide some additional information. I agree, as you state that 135 dollars or even a 200 dollars(my opinion) fee, will not a beach marriage decision ruin! Get real, any real marriage will not be thrown out of balance because of 150-300 dollar fee. Especially on the beach. Now if beach weddings are free or say 20 dollars! then perhaps really cheap couples will allow that small consideration to dictate their decision-making. But as Dread always says, DR needs to go up-market and leave behind the low dollar returns of mass tourism. So if DR losses say 20% of its clients to lower fare horizons but gains greater returns on those that are willing to pay, perhaps there's a silver lining to this deal after all.

Greed Greed Greed. I made a trip a few days ago from the east to Santiago and return. The trip was over a three day period.

I was pulled over 6 times by AMET to check papers at different locations along the route and return. I have a decent vehicle and a gringo face. They were not stopping vehicles that obviously had equipment defects or lack of proper window stickers. Just the vehicle with potential to pay fines. Ka-ching Ka-ching Ka-ching Greed Greed Greed

So if they (govt) can do this to me, they can rob the foreigners who want to get married. Ka-ching

GOOD... Considering that they pay little taxes, pay low wages to employees and hotels are All-Inclusive, we have to get some money somehow!

tumbe de govierno ya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zooma

I don't even stop unless they stand in the middle of the road.

Pretend I don't see them. It works, they never attempted pursuit.

They must be preparing to legalize gay marriage.

Raise the prices BEFORE the rush.

Good marketing strategy! The other Caribbean wedding destinations will eat DR's dust.

Santiago/Miami,
Greedy bastards -- I'm sure this option is going to compete with Vegas. Man -- it's exhausting that my country is being managed (mismanaged that is) by a bunch of fv(#!&g ladrones.

Thats just not business sense. Those in the tourism industry that tourist have to be viewed as a RENEWABLE SOURCE OF INCOME and not a one time 'dale con to'' thing. Its only a matter of time before tourists become savvy of what they SHOULD be getting charged, there are already tons of resources on the internet. Tourism COULD BE a 'win win' situation, providing tourists with a beautiful destination full of beautiful, warm people with a rich culture, and providing Dominicans with a dependable source of income. But people have to stop trying to over charge and under hand. If you treat people right, charge them a fair and 'normal' price, the Island will do the rest and they WILL COME BACK. But the more tourist that are ripped off, the more will go back and blog about their horrible experience to their friends and how they were ripped off from the airport to the beach and back. Things have to change in that regard, otherwise its just self-destruct.

why would any one stand on a beach where some little kid just pissed !!!!!

Come to M iami Beach...

Bad PR for the DR come on People of the DR get a grip

Not surprising. Greed has cost many a Dominican livelihood.

you are totally right (okian)

went to a local internet cafe yesterday afternoon, to check for an email. asked the clerk the rate, and it was 30 pesos per hour. got the whole deal done in 19 minutes. went to the counter to pay, and she said 25 pesos. i informed her that i was there all of 19 minutes, whereupon she said "ok, 10 pesos". gave her 25, and she tosses the change back at me with great indignation. yes. she tries to rob me, and, when i defend my rights, i am the bad guy.typical Dominican mentality. instead of trying to make me a regular customer, by treating me fairly, she wants to make a big one time 15 peso score, losing me as a client for life. can you say 19th century?

as many internet cafes have a mininum rate for either an hour or half an hour ,I imagine the girl at the counter was probably doing you a favour in the first instance and as I imagine your defence of your rights was as as aggressive as your abuse here , she probably thought herself lucky to see your back

actually, Ricardolito, there is a calculator which records time and minutes, simultaneously. the charges appear on the screen. then again, i am not surprised that you would come to the defence of people such as these. maybe this penchant to fleece foreigners will only be corrected by reciprocal measures, such as american landlords charging Dominicans 10 times the rate for rent as they charge local people. i am sure you would be delighted by those eventualities. she might have thought herself lucky to see me gone. what she will not see is my return. i will simply take my business elsewhere. see who loses in that deal.

300 percent thats steep , what do you expect from a government run thats allows illegal imigrants to destroy there neighborhoods.

Hola, I am a yearly visitor to the DR and I have stayed in All-Inclusive resorts as well as travelled by rented car all over the island except for Baharona. That said I have read repeatedly claims by poster to have the DR abandon, cheap tourist and the affordable vacation model.

I mean no offense but as as someone who used to sell vacation to Mexico I can a tell you that you only have one main draw.... affordable beach vacations. Unlike Mexico the general public of the DR lacks a rich enough middle class to support local upscale businesses nationwide and therefore the is nothing to do for visiting tourist once the leave the compounds.... albeit one exception the Colonial Zone and yet even in the Colonial Zone there are not upscale restuarants or cuisine to justify the visit of an independent tourist. I mean no offense as I love the DR and like Dominicans. But reality is that the DR has too little to offer short of beaches.

Written by: Paladino444, 22 Mar 2011 12:59 AM
From: United States

"But reality is that the DR has too little to offer short of beaches."

Paladino444, check out the wildlife photography in the DT section for some suggestions. DR has a lot to offer. It's not all beaches and all-inclusive vacations.

Atabey, you can be correct in your eyes but in the eyes of a foriegn tourist who does not speak Spanish fluently, renting a car and driving to see the wildlife is not a 'known'. If you talk to people and say visit wildlife they will say Costa Rica Rain Forests! If you travel by car throughout the DR as a foreigner you will find little to visit and be entertained by. There are no quality roadside attractions, no quality roadside restaurants, no motels and you can drive through town after town with nothing of interest to stop for. I am not dissing the DR; the reality is what is in the mind of the visitor; that reality does not recognize any reason to visit the DR except beaches and possible some s_x tourism. Compare the DR to Costa Rica or Mexico you get blown out of the water. DR must compete with other destinations; I know everyone know s this but until Sosua is replicated in other locations and more Gringos take up refuge on the island I don't see a change. $$$$$$$ is what

Paladino, thanks for saying what you just did. i wanted to, but people get offended really easily, even when you are offering constructive criticism. the major problem is that it appears that nobody here has visited any other countries, in order to make RELATIVE analysis. they only know what they know, and believe that they have the best of everything, because their government officials tell them so. they believe that they have the best tourist product in the region, because their tourist ministry tells them that they are the jewel of the caribbean. what they do not understand is that EVERYTHING that they have can be found on some other island, and probably better. i have never been to the Punta Cana /Bavaro area, but my friends who have all characterize it as an artificial strip of hotels in the middle of a barren wasteland. once you leave the compounds of the hotels, there is squat to see, or do. a guy from Vermont sees more interesting things in a drive over to grandma

than he does in a week outside the hotel grounds. and, you are absolutely correct about the dearth of a middle class as being the reason why there is nothing of quality to be seen in certain areas. i have posted before that the reason why Puerto Plata does not have a decent restaurant is because the people with money in the area prefer to spend it in Santiago or South Beach, Florida. there are no decent music ensembles, because the well heeled will not pay 100 peso entry fees to listen to a jazz band. therefore, there are no worthwhile attractions. cable cars do not impress guys from colorado....they want a good roadside stand that sells some awesome seafood offerings..and, no. not Maimon style, fried to a crisp in yesterday's oil.

Paladino,

Firstly, you are right in saying that Dr has done a terrible job of educating not only its people BUT more broadly the international tourist market with regards to areas of interest in her soil. Yes, Costa Rica has done a far better job of promoting its domain and riches to the outside world. I have been there a few times and have met many Ticos. If you've followed my posts you'd note how many times I have referred to Costa Rica's far better management of its wealth and have on a number of occasions stated that DR should seek to emulate Costa Rica's example, especially where it concerns the educational commitment and advancement. Secondly, DR is a rough work in progress; we haven't had as easy a break historically speaking as say Costa Rica. Our immense problems sharing an island less than half the size of Cuba with the Hemisphere's poorest nation is not only a fact, but has also contributed to many difficulties in managing resources and development needs.

Thirdly, DR stands to witness an immense upward trajectory in development and modernization in the coming years and decades. Many of the nations you have in mind have been explored and are in effect Known commodities, DR is still in development. Thus she holds more potential in hand. Of course having potential and realizing such potential is the key. I only hope that Haiti can get its act together in the coming years. If so, watch out for the 20 plus million island in the heart of the Caribbean! Labor-wise and overall cost-wise this island would become the low cost producer of the region! The roads and modernization in transport and communications will happen fast and furious with Haiti's expansion driving upward DR's economy. As Dominicans enter the 21 century you will see all the similar road destination stops and the myriad location picture and rest stops craved by foreigners and vacationers alike. Yes, it would have taken longer in DR, but its coming.

Dreadlocks and Atabey, ....there is was said! let me accepted and let us speak honestly about what 'can' be done vs. what 'should' be done. I am your perfect example. I am in the process of abandoning my US career and moving offshore, first part-time and then full-time. I have choosen the DR as my eventual retirement location as I simply love it! I love warm waters and plenty of space.

That said I am in the process of starting a company, financing and mentoring, my partners in Medellin, Colombia. Why? Because there combination of necessary parts and opportunities align there to make money. Why not the DR? Easy there is only one money making opportunity in the DR for my eyes and that is tourism of which we have all pontificated. I need a middle class t sell products and services to; profits come from selling things which people 'want' not just 'need'.

..if i may continue. What the DR needs is about two hundred thousand Gringos and Europeans spending their foreign cash inside the DR ....PLUS... and important this... those Gringos and Europeans starting industries and creating new, independent jobs for Dominicans. The existing parochial structure of business in the DR does not provide much in the way of upward mobility. Many people do not know that close to million Gringos have created roots in Mexico over the last 100 years.. buying houses, coming and going as vacation and then eventual retirement homes for some. This exchange of not only investment but employment and sometime innovation is a useful contribution to Mexico's success. Please do not think that I am claiming that Mexico deserves less credit... I am simply saying that new blood and new money is good for struggling domains regardless of the name whether it be Costa Rica, Panama, Mexico, Colombia etc.

Ok, thanks for reading and maybe we will meet some day in the DR and have a beer or cafe con leche. As it stands now I am still considering Juan Dolio on the south or Sosua or Samana on the N. coast. I would prefer to do something in Juan Dolio but it will not be fore making money as there is too little to make there.. jjajaja.

Ok thanks all. Spread the word, get the Gringos to invade.

Good talking to you Paladino444. I wish you well on the business venture. Perhaps in the near future opportunities will open up in DR and that expanded middle class we all agree must be created takes off. As for retirement communities, unless DR falls off the map, she should get a lot of interest from just retiring Dominicans. Although I agree that having a few hundred thousand Gringos in the house will help drive the service and building construction sectors in DR. Good luck!

Paladino, you are a breath of fresh air. you are a guy who understands economics, and sociology. all the guys who believe that the dynamics are in place for some massive infusion of gringo investment are deluding them selves. numerous gringos have come here, and tried to start businesses, only to go belly up, returning home broke and disappointed. as you stated, tourism is the only evident ray of economic hope, and it is woefully underutilized, and underdeveloped. there are many reasons why the competition will outdo us. our electricity is too unreliable, and too expensive. our population is less educated, and prepared, than our major rivals. the obstacles to competitiveness are well documented. what we have is potential, but not any evidence of planning, vision, foresight, and organization.

Dread,

By 2015 DR and Haiti are set to expand between 5-9% annually. That's pretty good. Of course, it's sustaining those levels over the long haul that will finally generate the sufficient advancement each seeks. You are a pessimist concerning DR's future. But if you studied DR's history and the historical trends in DR, you would have a different opinion.

Atabey states


By 2015 DR and Haiti are set to expand between 5-9% annually. That's pretty good. Of course, it's sustaining those levels over the long haul that will finally generate the sufficient advancement each seeks. You are a pessimist concerning DR's future. But if you studied DR's history and the historical trends in DR, you would have a different opinion.

what does all of that mean? where do you get it from that the DR and Haiti are set to expand between 5-9%? do you have a crystal ball regarding the prices of oil in the upcoming years? do you have the slightest idea of what happens to the US economy if the events in the Middle East go haywire and oil hits 140 per barrel? do you have the faintest idea of what will happen to the DR economy if the US slides back into an economic relapse? how can you project growth 4 years forward? that is intellectually and academically irresponsible, and is not the basis for serious discussion.

i am pessimistic of the future of the entire caribbean, not just the DR. the only reason i make reference to the DR is because this site is DominicanToday, not TheRestof the CaribbeanToday.
these are not the days of autarky. this is competition time. to put it bluntly, we cannot compete with similarly sized and positioned countries. to produce competitive offerings, our factor inputs have to be as productive, and as cost effective, as our competitors. our electricity is too expensive, and too unreliable, to sustain competitive production. out human capital lags behind even places like Barbados, because of the education and training deficit. even essentials like internet service kill us...the most expensive, lousiest internet in the region. download speed number 122 in the world, while Trinidad is somewhere like 37, and jamaica 39..how do we compete with Korea..you tell me.

dread, you've been absent and need to document yourself with some new information.

http://dominicantoday.com/dr/foru....ize-cities-in-emerging-markets-DR

Santo Domingo is set to have a per capita GDP of 24 K by 2025. The march of modernization will take place. It will happen faster and more substantially if Haiti is stabilized and her potential realized. I have hopes that better days await Haiti and DR.

Atabey scolds

dread, you've been absent and need to document yourself with some new information.

you need to stop reading copy and paste articles, and to apply economic methodologies. you fail to address my question. how do you make economic growth forecasts for 14 years down the road, when you cannot predict commodity prices at the end of this year? i am never absent, Atabey, so you can leave the condescension at the door. you haven't gotten it, in all these disagreements we have had. i work with BASICS. i do not speculate. i do not transpose performance from one region to the other. i may not be many things, but i am a trained project evaluation economist, and we operate with guidelines, and rules, not by reading what some guy thinks.

I guess you have more fire power than the group of economist at the McKinsey Quarterly Group.

Dread, you may be opposed constitutionally against the idea of economic and social betterment for the DR and Haiti, but first. The monies in the pipe-line for Haiti's reconstruction await resolution of the players in Haiti. And that is being hashed out as I write this to you. I have hopes that this group, a diverse one no doubt, will finally do right. Of course, all could go wrong and the historical infighting continue to hold back Haiti's potential. true enough. Secondly, if they prove noteworthy and finally get their act together, the larger sums promised will flow in; right now only something like 60% of the promised aid has arrived, and no doubt many countries are waiting to see what transpires after this recent election: Will Haiti finally get its act together? Will the elites and other important groups finally work together? those questions and more need to have REAL

evidence of finally being addressed. And a lot depends on these next two years. Think of them as a trial run for Haiti. If her leadership behaves itself and produces good outcomes: less corruption, more and better management and transparency, then more aid flows will happen. And given this new improved track record more development will happen. The textile exporting platform is a crucial piece in this coming of the minds, as the USA has orchestrated moves to improve the likelihood that foreign business capital will use Haiti to export to the huge US-NAFTA market. Even Dominican capitalist and Haitian too will likely join in developing the exporting potential. And all will do so because good money will ensue.

As for DR, her modernization will continue and the corruption and poor institutional arrangement will be tackled. Yes, to many of us not as fast and efficiently as we would like. But to those of us who have READ A Little Dominican History and know of the depths of

its long sufferings and struggles towards modernity, what has happened in the last 12, absent of course the Bank failure fiasco, will go down as part of the overall transformation of the Dominican Republic. Have there been failures, corruption, poor governance, etc., you bet. But first look at it from the historical prospective and perhaps then things will appear a bit more palatable to the minds that show due respect to nuances in the historical record. As you yourself were too quick to interject with DR's poor Democratic practices just recently; had you known a little Dominican history from the 1970s, you would never have made such an elementary mistake. Try reading some good Dominican history and your analysis of DR's current challenges will perhaps prove worthwhile for the rest of the DT audience to read.

Have to run to do my daily chores, but will get back to you shortly.

Atabey scoffs
I guess you have more fire power than the group of economist at the McKinsey Quarterly Group

these guys are all making FORECASTS, Atabey. get it? FORECASTS. if it has not happened yet, then it is a FORECAST. i do not care where they are from. you cannot make a FORECAST for economic events 14 years down the road. i do not care who you are. McKinsey is just another group of economic analysts. they are not God. anyone who says that a growth rate will be 10% 14 years into the future is a scam artist, preying upon the limited understanding of others. when you have an economy like any caribbean economy, which is highly dependent on very few factors, it does not take much to throw everything out the window. one epidemic can destroy tourism for 20 years. a recession in major core countries can destroy your markets. that is my story, and i am sticking to it. and stop being childish by asserting that i am against the development of the DR. i am against silly analysis

you apparently are not paying attention. look at what happened to the nickel mine at Falconbridge. it was a mainstay of the DR economy, but had to close, because of an oversupply of stainless steel. that had nothing to do with factors here. it was a world market situation. then, while it was closed down, other, cheaper sources of nickel popped up in south america. that is how the world economy works, not by some groups like McKinsey writing articles projecting outcomes 15 years down the road

Dread,
There are as many economic predictions as there are economists. Some are bound to "fluke" it sometimes. governments follow the advice of the "best" economists - yet we still have crashes. Either they are useless or malevolent - either way we are better of without them.

I agree that Dominicans don't take too well to criticism, no matter how constructive or accurate. They believe their government's "spin" because that are too lazy to find out for themselves. Not all Dominicans are lazy, only those still living in DR.