Cojan ahy keep letting all those Haitian lover to come in and out infecting our land, thats what happen and nows Dominican Poors have to pay the Price for the Crooks that let them in,,,,

What the hell do you expect. From the low class to the upper class we are the # 2 pigs in the world. You can always know where Dominicans live by the garbage strewn every where. I refer to those as "Dominican Flowers". Do not blame the Haytians when we are a land of Garabge. One thing and only one thing fernandex did was to clean up the Ave. of the Americas ware 25 miles of trash lined both sides. 8 feet deep.

Our political corruption coming back to haunt us. Lack of education and the theft of public money that should be used for things like garbage cleanup and cleaning up our environment will make this disease difficult to eradicate like it is in civilized countries. Our corrupt politician would rather have a new jeepeta than pay a crew to clean the garbage in our neighborhoods. Sad.

Veronica, YES. It is not fair to blame the residents for the garbage. Our government is not doing it's job and has not for a long time. Yet, let me say, the conditions in the wealthy sectors is much better. The barrios always suffer the indignities. There are many fine responsible Dominicans living in the barrios. We in the barrios are victims of the poor quality of life in the country.

In addition, when there are roves of illegals living and peeing and pooping everywhere it is not surprising to see the results.

yes, Carmen. blame the government for the garbage. typical mentality. no es mi culpa. sure. i watch people standing beside drums which are intended to be receptacles for garbage, and they are throwing their crap on the ground beside it. grown men throwing styrofoam cups out their car windows on to the highway. empty bottles everywhere. but, in your typical mentality, it is easy to blame it on everything, and everybody, else. it is the government, and the illegal haitians. the unsanitary habits of Dominicans has nothing to do with the problem. that is why nothing will improve here. nobody acts like an adult, taking ownership of problems. why the heck should they, when they can just as easily look for a convenient scapegoat. not exactly the behavior of adults.

That means that there are more dead, not 30, the president of medical college already said a week ago that there where 30 dead and that the GOV was hiding it.

Colegio Médico dice 30 han muerto por cólera y 5 mil están afectados

http://tinyurl.com/3ja2hob

Have to agree Dread. Here in the east, we now have "DAILY" garbage pick up...even in the Hoyo. Still does not change the throwaway attitude of the majority here. Take a trail ride down an old trail and you will see where most of this is dumped...out of site...out of mind.


If I see one more Toyota FJ/Hummer owner toss their platano containers out the window at 80 mph passing on a blind corner cresting a hill,...well, I will do nothing...they are right and I am wrong! LOL

of course, Mike. the only thing is that when you make such statements, it just makes them mad. because it is your fault for mentioning it.

I have to agree with dreadlocks. i remember what time i was in Punta Rucia beach, which is a beautiful clean beach and here come the visitor's from others towns of DR throwing fauking garbage in the water, one will eat a potato chip and just trow it in the water, another will throw Styrofoam cups and plates and so on.

time2rize, it is a major problem which will have to be addressed. this country needs foreigners, both as tourists, and as residents. when you come from a country where people have scrupulously clean environmental habits, it is very unsettling to spend your days wading though piles and mounds of garbage, with the stench , and the insects. i fail to understand why people will throw garbage onto the ground, with a receptacle in plain sight. after all, it is their country!

They don't know what the receptacle is FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They look at it as GARBAGE as well!

You all make a valid point but if the government would focus more on us the DR and not the haitians our conditions would be much better. We should take a page from USA and penalize any owner that hires illegals,and have them pay the fees to transport the haitians back to Haiti. LOL

send all the Haitians home tomorrow, and Dominicans will still create a pig sty of their country, by throwing garbage everywhere. it seems to be quite acceptable, as nobody is perturbed by it. i once visited the city of Ottawa , Canada, and was having a cigarette on an off street. when i was done, i flicked the butt toward a trashcan, and missed. well, truth be told, i did not stop to pick it up. an elderly lady witnessed the incident, and literally poked me in the side with her umbrella, demanding that i pick it up, and put it in the trash. i was embarrassed mightily, and rightfully so. i hate to think what she would have done if it had been a bag full of styrofoam plates, chicken bones, and parrot fish vertebrae, which is par for the course here.

Yes trying to blame the government for not keeping your home clean is stupid. The responsibility for a clean environment is us. No one can pick up garbage faster than the people can throw it. The cholera problem started in Haiti and should have stayed there. The border needed to be secured and the government was slow to respond also the border guards taking bribes did not help. Educating the public is about all they can do now. Not with the education system it is broken

Mart1n states

Not with the education system it is broken

it is not broken. it does not exist.

An irresponsiblie and unconcerned disposal of garbage is a lack of Civism The attitudes and behavior of good citizenship is learned at home and school. However if you have a deficient public education system, break down of the family, corrupt border officials, inadequate sanitation services then the eventual and inevitable consequence is evidenced by a trash littered country. So you can't really hold the people solely and directly resposible for not behaving appropriately when those institutions, which were set in place precisely to instill values and pricipals are in a state of crisis. Therefore, there is no one single culprit to point a finger at but rather a combination of all factors which share blame for the cause and spread of the cholera epidemic.
.

An irresponsiblie and unconcerned disposal of garbage is a lack of Civism The attitudes and behavior of good citizenship is learned at home and school. However if you have a deficient public education system, break down of the family, corrupt border officials, inadequate sanitation services then the eventual and inevitable consequence is evidenced by a trash littered country. So you can't really hold the people solely and directly resposible for not behaving appropriately when those institutions, which were set in place precisely to instill values and pricipals are in a state of crisis. Therefore, there is no one single culprit to point a finger at but rather a combination of all factors which share blame for the cause and spread of the cholera epidemic.
.

"Therefore, there is no one single culprit to point a finger but rather a combination of all factors which share the blame for the spread of the cholera epidemic." -Guillermone.

100% correct.

No single factor should get a pass. Several factors make the problem far larger and more difficult to address: lack of border enforcement and the breakdown of civil institution like schools/families. The first, increases the number of poverty driven migrant that swell the barrios and slum dwellers across the nation; creating excellent breeding grounds for infectious diseases to potentially gain traction. The second set of problems, schools and family breakdown, are crucial in the breakdown of moral and institutional stability.

The cholera outbreak is cause by haitians , this matter is about the outbreak of the disease , not the high margin of garbage in the streets , so can we please stick with the topic . The problem is the high number of illegals has caught up with the dominican republic , this has created a outbreak of crimes , diseases , and unwanted invaders , if the dominican republic wasn 't so thirsty for money and corrupted to the core they would not have this problem.

hellborn, your postulate that the cholera epidemic is occasioned by illegals, presupposes a number of things. by illegals, i suspect that you mean Haitians. firstly, we have not proven that the disease, as it occurs in the DR, was introduced by a Haitian, or by Haitians. what if it was brought in by Dominicans who travelled to Haiti, and brought it back? besides, i fail to understand how illegal becomes an important component of the discussion. am i to take it that you hold the belief that properly documented Haitians cannot be carriers of the malady?

"besides, i fail to understand how illegal becomes an important component of the discussion..." -El dready.

There are over 1 million illegal Haitians and others in the DR. The vast numbers of illegals are Haitians, and the greater numbers of poverty stricken migrant are also Haitians. Furthermore, Haiti was the site of the introduction of Cholera via UN Nepalese forces. So let's get real Dready, the problem of Cholera has a probability of almost 100% as to the origin of the malady on the island. Just because Haitians didn't bring the disease into Haiti does not absolve the leaders and people of Haiti from the responsibility of the same. More to the point, the poverty stricken migrant from Haiti carries with him/her all the attributes of their subsistence level- survival-text. They don't suddenly become post-modernist when they cross the border into DR! The same patterns of survival learnt in Haiti are carried and refined in DR. These illegals swell the numbers

of the poorly-educated, ill-fed populations in the Barriors and slums of DR. The living conditions are atrocious and are perfect breeding grounds for infectious diseases to gain traction in them. I don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand El Dready. As the good Professor from France stated: DR's modernization drive will be short-changed as long as it allows huge numbers of poverty stricken Haitians to swell its rank of desperately poor population base. So as Guillermone stated, there are several factors involved in this Mega-problem; and the illegal Haitian population IS PART of the equation. Good functioning schools and good functioning family units are equally important components in this national tragedy.

as always, Atabey is too stupid to understand basic logic, so he goes on his little infantile musings, making a fool of himself, as usual. read the narrative, and try to comprehend. the fact that there is a large contingent of Haitians in the country obviously increases the PROBABLITY of the disease being introduced by a Haitian, given the fact that the first recorded cases of the disease were seen in Haiti. the fact that a large portion of the Haitians are illegal increases the PROBABILITY that the incidents in the DR were occasioned by an illegal Haitian, or a plurality thereof. HOWEVER, Atabey, if you read what i said, there are other possibilities, in the absence of data to the contrary. the disease could have been also transmitted by

a Dominican , or Dominicans, who travelled to Haiti, and contracted the disease there

a legally documented Haitian.

that is all i am saying. i know that you are too much of a dunce to understand that reasoning, but you can at least try to.

REGARDLESS of who or where Cholera came from, it is a FACT that Cholera is NOT a lethal disease! It can VERY easily be treated. That is why Cholera outbreaks in the States (and other places that have an operational WATER, TRASH and Food Sanitation Standards) are almost unheard of and rare. When the food is not cleaned and processed correctly - Cholera can become manifest. The Dominican Government, in regards to the Cholera issue, is stepping on ants and not spraying the Ant Mount with poison. They should focus on developing, implementing and working WATER system, as that is the number 1 factor in maintaining cleanliness. Also, as mentioned above, people have to be more responsible and care enough about their own environment and stop throwing trash around in ignorance. Immigration reform will also help control outbreaks, but it is NOT the 'cause' of Cholera, ESPECIALLY not Cholera deaths, because it IS treatable.

BernardJeanPierre, i would hope that your erudite explanation of the issue would resonate with Atabey, but, alas, the poor guy is just not too bright. opinionated, yes. bright...not!

dreads my point is the disease of the cholera was created in haiti and started there , so the issue is with the haitians , now whether it was illegals or legals who cost the outbreak ? thats beside the point, we know for sure it was haitians thats where the disease originated from ,and it does not help matters when we have millions of illegals refugees running around spreading it to dominican citizens.

Dready,

Time for you to change your adult diapers and remember to wash your hands afterward-don't want you spreading anything around.

"besides, i fail to understand how illegal becomes an important component of the discussion..." -El dready.

As the quotation above makes plain, you have again stepped on your puppy and need to clean yourself. DR has a large population of NATIVE poverty and the illegal population has only INCREASED the numbers. The poor sanitary and extreme poverty associated with Cholera is worse BECAUSE of these notable pockets of extreme poverty often filled by first generation and recent waves of migrants from Haiti.

As Guillermone stated, there are many factors involved and the waves of poverty stricken migrants have contributed to the problem.

Fact: Cholera arrived via the UN Pakistani forces in Haiti. NOT in the DR!

Go change your diapers.

Do we believe the Dominican Medical College's numbers of 30 dead and 5000 inflected or the health ministry's numbers 23 dead and 1,288 infected. The dead (30 and 23) from both sources are in the same ballpark.

But the difference in the number of infected is staggering.

Which is lying or are both lying or is neither lying?

Cholera is an infection of the small intestine that is caused by tiny bugs. The main symptoms are profuse diarrhea and vomiting. Transmission is primarily through consuming bug-contaminated water or food.

Contaminated water and food are more likely found near garbage, but nearby garbage is not a necessary condition for contaminated water and food (especially seafood).

In Jan 2011, 411 wealthy Venezuelan citizens attended a wedding ceremony in DR. By the time they returned to Venezuela, 111 of these people were suffering from cholera, all of whom had consumed a particular DR dish of raw fish cooked in lemon.

So, garbage isn't always a factor.

@hellborn, well you still need to be specific with your point. Cholera is not exclusive to Haiti, the particular strain thats going around now did not originate Haiti, rumor has it that Nepalese UN troops brought. It is surviving and being spread around in Haiti AND the Dominican Republic because of the sanitary conditions, simple as that. Its like saying, if a person goes to Boca Chica, has unprotected sex and contracts some STD, it does NOT mean that the STD ORIGINATED in the Dominican Republic. Cholera can be (and is) found EVERYWHERE, what makes it an outbreak or not has to do with the place it is IN, not the place where it came from. Sanitary conditions have to be improved in Haiti AND in the Dominican Republic, otherwise there will be not stopping it.

Atabey, as i have said before, it is a fool´s errand to debate with you, because you are too dense for words. you have got to be, without exception, the most illogical, uninformed, and silly guy on this board. simple arguments, which children can understand, go over your head like the space shuttle. there should be an entrance exam at sign up for this site, to keep lamebrains away. go back to playing xbox. your intellect might be sufficient for that.

What a mess. This one was very predictable, just like the Dominican Identity in the near future.

It's funny but mostly sad because every post I read regarding a problem / issue in the D.R always refers back the Illegals???

Yeah Haiti was the fist country out of the two to declare an outbreak just like Mexico was the first declare cases of swine flu... Is it their fault ???

People! Please use a little c'mon sense..... we share borders hello ???

Let's stop the finger-pointing and let''s get together and solve our issues.

"It's funny but mostly sad because every post I read regarding a problem / issue in the D.R always refers back the Illegals?"

El suave,

The point is that illegals are ONE important aspect of the problem. No one claims that IT"S ONLY THE ILLEGALS! Read "Therefore, there is no one single culprit to point a finger but rather a combination of all factors which share the blame for the spread of the cholera epidemic." -Guillermone.

Illegals and the added stresses these contribute to our own large domestic poverty base are PART of the problem. As stated numerous times: they are NOT the only source of problems in DR; just a CONTRIBUTING PART!

BTW, I too second your suggestion that both sides need to work hard to help mitigate the severe problems brought on by this Cholera epidemic on the island.

As for El dready, I and many on this board fully understand how much it would pain him were this problem in Jamaica and not the DR.

the eternal, unrelenting , and thoroughly predictable low grade moron Atabey resorts with some of his infantile xenophobia with the following

As for El dready, I and many on this board fully understand how much it would pain him were this problem in Jamaica and not the DR.

Atabey, i know that you have the brains of a fly, but let me try this again. try to digest this. where there is a number of PROBABILITIES, then there cannot be a certainty. if you have problems unravelling that truism, then i will do in in cartoon characters, in crayon, and send an attachment in my next posting.

Hands up for Dread : you never miss your spot jajajaja

Carmen you need Jesus :)

thanks, Nehesy. it is easy when you deal with someone who has the brains of a large bird.

Perhaps Nehesy is providing French pampers to El Dready. Ja Ja JA JA!

How about monsieur Nehesy demand the Great French Republic provide more Visas for the downtrodden people of Haiti?

El Dready, as always trying to find that 5 leg on the cat! Ja JA JA JA!

Cholera came to Haiti via UN Pakistani forces. The epicenter of the Cholera epidemic has been well documented inside Haiti. And by French scientist to boot! Why did these Pakistani forces come to Haiti? For the sun, for pleasure? No. They came because of the FAILED STATE called Haiti. Now, who is responsible for that FAILED STATE? The people of Haiti. BOTH RICH AND POOR ALIKE!

You get no Mulligan El Dready and Monsieur Nehesy.

Pa' La Escuelita Aprender.

@ Atabey,

Get your facts straight....Cholera did not come from Pakistan it came from Nepal !

Second, In order to understand the present you need to understand the past idioso, Haiti took its independence from France in 1804 and was sanctioned a huge fee for it . Because back in 1804 the biggest insult to the WHITE establishment was to see salves raise to their feet never mind seeing them establish their own Black country.




Atabey, I'm Cuban / Dominican , my mom is from Moca, DR...just be real and say you don't like those Haitianos...It's ok mi amigo ! Let' the Trujillo come out of you....

Haiti may be a FAILED STATE but your a LOST CAUSE !

Firstly, to state factual evidence is not a crime. The forces came from Nepla, I stand corrected. But please tell, How does that minor distinction change the reality? It doesn't. My point was that Cholera did not originate in Haiti but was brought into Haiti via the UN trusteeship. Why was that Trusteeship set-up? FACT: Because Haiti had fallen into a FAILED STATE STATUS. Was the DR responsible for that? FACT: NO. Since the dreadful day of 1/12/2010, Haiti has found itself in great need, far greater than before-and that's saying something! Massive numbers of Haitians moved into DR. When the outbreak was confirmed, within Haiti, DR was assured of some exposure to this water-born disease in the future. FACT: That future became difficult to hold back BECAUSE of the movement of illegal across the border. FACT: there are many illegal people who live in the slums of DR.

FACT: Controlling the borders will help control the Cholera epidemic.

No hate just the facts.

el suave, Atabey does not know whether he is on foot, or horseback. it is a stretch to expect him to have any facts. besides, he is a semi literate, who believes he actually knows better than people who actually went to school. the foremost authority on cholera control at UNESCO wrote a piece on cholera control, in which she opined that controlling borders does not control the disease. she went as far as to say that it was not something that the UN would recommend. however, in the face of all that, the low grade moron believes that he knows better, stating that controlling the borders will control the disease. and people wonder why i say that he is beyond being educated.

el suave states

Haiti may be a FAILED STATE but your a LOST CAUSE !

i said that the first time i saw one of his posts.

Really It's so sad.