Santo
Domingo.- The Dominican Republic National Platform for Migration (MNM-RD) has
denounced what it describes as “serious violations” of human rights in the
repatriation of Haitians, ranging from beatings of detainees to extortion,
humiliation and family disintegration.
They
recalled that the Dominican Republic and Haiti signed a protocol of
understanding on repatriations in 1999.
Speaking
at a press conference, William Charpentier,
coordinator of the MNM-RD, claimed that the General Migration
Department and other authorities had flagrantly violated the rules established
in the protocol.
He added that the violations
committed by the Haitian government in failing to issue identity documents to its
citizens and not setting up migration control posts along its posts to
prevent the flow of irregular migration to the Dominican Republic.
He said that people were expelled late
at night, on Sundays and holidays, and that prisoners lose their belongings
because they are not allowed to collect items that they own.
Many detained
migrants are not allowed to fetch their families and many end up
leaving their children alone to roam the streets of Dominican cities.
He said that the
immigrants are victims of extortion and fraud by some migration authorities,
military and police personnel, who take advantage of the situation to deprive
them of money in return for their release.
Written by: BASTA, 23 Jun 2011 11:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs
so what's new
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
If the condition of their treatment is substandard, why do the keep coming over. They must like being treated like dawgz.
Written by: Atabey, 23 Jun 2011 12:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
"He added that the violations committed by the Haitian government in failing to issue identity documents to its citizens and not setting up migration control posts along its posts to prevent the flow of irregular migration to the Dominican Republic."
Work on those aspects of the problem and the rest of the issues will decrease enormously.
If Haiti is unable, unwilling, whatever, to enforce its side of the border, than the UN or international community needs to patrol the border and protect the people from illegally crossing. Hunt down the traffickers, Bounties for their heads??
From: United States
I can only hope that each respective Government will come together and collectively work on fixing this most disturbing and heart-breaking of problems. Bad enough is the poverty and despair, but breaking up families for lack of any consistent protocol is just beyond ridiculous. smh
@RobertoJose - its easy to say that when you are not IN that situation. OBVIOUSLY then there must be an extreme state of despair. You should show more respect and compassion.
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Is that 50 Cent pushing that lady up?
Written by: Atabey, 23 Jun 2011 1:22 PM
From: United States, NYC
BernardJeanPierre,
From: United States
And this is just the tip of iceberg. It's sad yes; but the international Community must set this straight and realize once and for all that Haiti as presently constituted is not viable. Begin a long term, say 20 year, de-population program. France, that historical predator with much Haitian blood + gold on her hands, should help out organizing the mass migration out of Haiti and into the wider Francophone community of nations. No nation need take in too many, but just stemming the growth and gaining some measure of downward projection of the population will have far more beneficial consequences for the island of Hispaniola than many other schemes. The island needs some breathing room! All the aid and help in the world will prove small if Haiti's population continues to increase. 75-100,000 families per year, for 20 years, spread out throughout the world, especially the Francophone community of nations would do the trick.
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
Sorry Bernnie........ I can't show any compassion to a situation that is not in my control. The haitian government should show more responsibility in the welfare of its people and shouldn't allow haitians to cross that border to be discriminated. Plus, most young dominicans don't want to work in the standard working environment the haitians created in DR. The manual labor is geared to employ undocumented hatians which consider working for pennies on a dollar. I also believe our youngsters don't have good work ethics because of this invasion of undocumented haitians taking on multiple task for pennies an hour. The Haitians despair has an impact on DR and we don't want it.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Migrants? Illegal Immigrants is more like it
Written by: lovingit, 23 Jun 2011 3:19 PM
From: United States, Delaware
@Yucahu
I agree that the numbers on Illegal Haitians are too high and that it needs to be taken under control, just like I agree with Atabey's comment of depopulating the Haitian nation (I actually would use even more aggressive numbers as I have posted on this subject in the past)
BUT, Yucahu, let's be human about things. There is no need to offend or damn the Haitianos ("maldito") as you posted. We need to be civil to create a more civil society.
From: United States
It doesn't matter how many the authorities deport, they come right back, there has to be a permanent solution to the problem. I say we need to form a separate entity from the army whose main role will be to guard the border. A border protection agencie or something of that nature. let's take the army out of the picture,let's face it, these guys turn a blind eye for a few pesos so the new agencie should offer better pay and benefits to its agents. In my Opinion the entire border can be monitored with less than a thoussand men positioned at key locations. Also the governmnet needs more watch posts or watch towers along the border. Ultimately i think that a wall wide enough that can be used as a bridge will serve the purpose, just like the wall of China. People are able to walk the entire lentgh of the wall of China on the surface of the wall. I know it will cost a lot of money, but it will do the trick and the security side of the job can be done with less personel.
From: United States
I have been siting at work during breaks reading this. Ensult toward haitiens ...I don't believe in religions however if the is a god some of will go sraight to hell.. I wonder how the puerto rican feel about the domimican I ve been to venezuala there not to happy about dominicans over there either. .....
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
@ Atabey
In regard to your depopulation agenda consider both countries population and birth rate what do you proposed for your side of the island mass castration perhaps.
It would validated your proposition if perhaps you knew a bit more about what you are talking about. As per square miles Haiti is totally under develop. It used to produced enough food to feed it's self until the early 80's under the guise of IMF debt restructuring it was forced to abandoned agriculture for US farmer subsidized imports. The annihilation of the creole pork and replacement by those from Arkansas was another blow the Haitian farmer never recover from. What Haiti needs to deal with its population issue is a program of decentralization which became more necessary after the Jan 12 Quake. It was part of the economic plan approved by the world bank which was being implemented by the Preval administration before the Jan 12 Quake. Control of the borders a must from both
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
Andu, that's why I say "Take care of your own"
From: United States
yucahu, remember you live in Miami__your day will come__(by the way shouldn't you add a "s" to malditos)
From: United States
andujar67, you will be surprised to know that those who post the most vicuous comments toward Haitians are themselves of Haitian origin__It is just a way to deny their Haitian encestry__
Written by: Atabey, 24 Jun 2011 9:13 AM
From: United States, NYC
Pat,
I think it is you that needs to see reality. Haiti's population is, at least, 10 million strong. You say that she was feeding her population back in 1980s, but the real point is how well was she feeding that population? And now with probably 2 or more million extra to feed, Haiti can not feed itself. The past is past as they say. Think about the future and how Haiti can get out of this horrendous situation. At present, a smaller version of the de-population scheme is being done! Except that instead of a Global wide effort to alleviate the population pressure in Haiti, the method being used is the eastward flow of the excess population into DR! All I've suggested is that the International Community SHARE the burden with DR. Why should DR have to take in millions? DR is still under REAL Domestic pressures from ITS OWN underdevelopment with large populations of poverty, ill-educated, ill-housed, etc. The wage depression caused by poor Haitians
Written by: Atabey, 24 Jun 2011 9:19 AM
From: United States, NYC
has not helped the situation of the marginal Dominican struggling for survival. Priced out of many low wage jobs and even many higher wage jobs, the Dominicans are feeling left out of the economic expansion underway. This causes a growing disconnect between the larger society and the country's modernization drive. If you and the rests of the gang just looked at this Haitian Problem with cool and realist eyes, you guys would see that encouraging an outward flow of Haitians to richer opportunity environments would be the greatest gift many now struggling and deprived Haitians could ever have in their lifetime. But for the island's stability, this outward flow must be a SHARED International Responsibility. I've been on record as supporting a REAL Workers' Permit Program, because I understand that some level of economic interaction between the two nations on the island demands such realistic assumptions. Read Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed
From: United States
Also Dominican failed policies have their influence on this matter; i think we are more than capable of dealing with this issue. But, the army officials and politicians pay very little attention to it. If we had a secured border, and i mean been watched from all fronts, things will be a lot different. Only then will a deportation solution work; the ones that are deported can't come back if we were doing our job how we're supposed to.
I hope the Haitian people can improve their current situation; i would like nothing better it's for the benefit of both countries. But let’s face it, Mr. Martelly is just trying to make a name for himself and I assure you he is more of the same. He looks to the international community to solve the Haitian problem which is ok he sure needs help, but first why not organize a well formed government that can exercise some form of control and this way he will be able to administer foreign aid with success.
From: United States, Haze gray, underway
Its not that simple. The situation in Haiti is horrible so I dont beleive its logical to deport Haitians since history has shown time and time again that they will come back. Creating a special unit might work, but its DR. It can be corrupted, people. I dont know, set up a mine field like they had in GTMO, or plant a whole bunch of banana trees along the border, call it "The Platano Curtain". The way I see it, they are there and they are there to stay. You can kill them, deport them, drown them, burn them, whatever, but there will always be Haitians in the Dominican Republic. I agree that it is an international issue, but the two nations share the same island. I believe its both countries duties and responsiblites to look out for each other. Some one wrote the past is past, however there is so much animosity out there becasue people keep bringing up what has happend in the past and dont seem to want to build a better future. They need to get it together down there.
From: United States
@TorresRamirez,
I hope our government doesn’t adopt the defeatist attitude you express. I know there are Haitians in DR but it has to be kept at a manageable number, otherwise we compromise civil order. And think about how many poor Dominicans there are right now in the country, the Haitian migrants just add to this problem. It is imperative for the country to keep things under control if it hopes for social and economical development. I am an immigrant myself and the way I see things the law has to be respected and enforced. Weather it is in the US or in the DR I agree with strict laws towards illegal immigration. Haitians in DR that have proper documentation should be respected and treated as citizens just as Dominicans, but those that break the law by illegally crossing the border should be punished and deported.
Written by: Atabey, 24 Jun 2011 10:26 AM
From: United States, NYC
TorresRamirez
The solution is not that hard. There was another small island in the Caribbean that was under extreme population pressure and one of the pillars of that entity's development and modernization was a de-population scheme that broke the back of the population dynamic on the island. The population pressures was subsumed unto a far larger landmass and the population bomb was "defused" without much of a bang in the huge continental landmass of North America. Hint: La Isla del Encanto!
Look back to the 1900 census and PR had close to 1 million people! More than the DR!! When the Bootstrap Program began in earnest about the 1940s, huge numbers of Puerto Ricans left PR, many were poor and were actually encouraged by their government and by the US, to seek out their future in the US. Well, now there are more Puerto Ricans in the USA than living in PR itself! 4.5 in the mainland versus 3.9-4.0 on the island. Unfortunately Haiti will not get the same treatment. So the
Written by: Atabey, 24 Jun 2011 10:31 AM
From: United States, NYC
international Community needs to get seriously involved and approach this problem within a multi-country scheme. Haiti's de-population needs to find a multiple source outcome. And the French could finally do something worthwhile after being the horrendous masters and plunderer of that unfortunate nation. France could organize some relief by promoting a scheme to help Haitians gain access to other Francophone countries world-wide. Even a few thousand families a year would help out the large numbers of destitute and devastated population of Haiti.
From: United States, Haze gray, underway
Hernandez,
En la Republica Dominicana nacen hijos de Haitainos que no le dan ciudadania porque sus padres son ilegales. Si nacen en tierra Dominicana que tiene que ver si sus padres son ilegales o no? A los que nacen hijos de gente que cometen peores crimenes que entrar al pais ilegalmente les dan ciudadania. Porque a ellos no? Usted vive en los Estados Unidos porque a usted le dieron los propios papeles. Pero, yo estoy seguro que si en Santo Domingo se los "estuviera llevando el Diablo" como en Haiti, hacen siglos que usted se montaria en yola hacea Puerto Rico. Y no es que tengo un "defeatist attitude " como dice usted, es la verdad. Si, estoy de acuerdo de que hay que haber mas control en la frontera, pero esto no es algo que nacio ayer y que no se va a solucionar mañana, ni tampoco discutiendo el heco aqui. Gracias.
From: United States, Haze gray, underway
Atabey,
I understand what youre saying. But why hasnt France made Haiti an Overseas Department? I beleive thats what its called. And you mentioned Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States. They are born American citizens. It wasnt too hard for Luis Muñoz Marin's "Operation Bootstrap" to come into play.
From: United States
I am always amazed with jimmy he never comments on this problem only on our government. At least our government is somewhat effective and at least our people are more civilized. It's not our fault haiti is the way it is. Its mostly their fault and yes France.
Written by: elsuave, 24 Jun 2011 1:37 PM
From: United States
@etiennc01,
quote: you will be surprised to know that those who post the most vicuous comments toward Haitians are themselves of Haitian origin__It is just a way to deny their Haitian encestry__
I'm starting to get the same feeling too...
@Atabey
You seem to have an answer for everything....You should ask Lionel to make you the ambassador of the D.R in Haiti.
@Yucahu,
You should take your frustration out on the streets of Miami.... I'm sure you'll find alot of Haitians overthere waiting on you... but the again your probably Haitian too lol
Written by: elsuave, 24 Jun 2011 1:42 PM
From: United States
Who ever works at Dominican Today seriously lack substance in their editorials .....
Reading the the peoples comments is often more informative and entertaining than the original article itself.
DR1.com is far more better !
Written by: airgordo, 24 Jun 2011 9:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: TorresRamirez, 24 Jun 2011 1:10 PM
From: United States
Hernandez,
En la Republica Dominicana nacen hijos de Haitainos que no le dan ciudadania porque sus padres son ilegales. Si nacen en tierra Dominicana que tiene que ver si sus padres son ilegales o no? A los que nacen hijos de gente que cometen peores crimenes que entrar al pais ilegalmente les dan ciudadania. Porque a ellos no? Usted vive en los Estados Unidos porque a usted le dieron los propios papeles. Pero, yo estoy seguro que si en Santo Domingo se los "estuviera llevando el Diablo" como en Haiti, hacen siglos que usted se montaria en yola hacea Puerto Rico. Y no es que tengo un "defeatist attitude " como dice usted, es la verdad. Si, estoy de acuerdo de que hay que haber mas control en la frontera, pero esto no es algo que nacio ayer y que no se va a solucionar mañana, ni tampoco discutiendo el heco aqui. Gracias
------
Pero el caso NO es el "HUBIERA" esto no es un SUPESTO, es una realidad que tenemos! DESP
Written by: airgordo, 24 Jun 2011 10:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: andujar67, 23 Jun 2011 8:05 PM
From: United States
I have been siting at work during breaks reading this. Ensult toward haitiens ...I don't believe in religions however if the is a god some of will go sraight to hell.. I wonder how the puerto rican feel about the domimican I ve been to venezuala there not to happy about dominicans over there either. .....
------
BOTH VENEZUELA and PUERTO RICO, DEPORT illegal Dominicans, AND THERE IS NO COMPLAIN HERE... so your "point" has just been flushed on the Toilet...
I don't want to sound arrogant, but is a STUPIDITY even dare to compare ANYTHING involving dominicans being illegal with Haitians being the same
From: United States
Ataboy Atabey. Let France step up and contribute with the Haitians' relocation. If they hadn't imposed such a devastating indemnity on Haitian independance that poor country might have fared better. The gall they had after receiving free labor for over a century they felt they were owed something.
Written by: airgordo, 24 Jun 2011 11:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic
by the way, we spent 22 years paying haiti's debt to france as well, in case anybody forgot...
From: United States
True Airgordo. That bill from the french probably contributed to the decision by Boyer to invade our lands.
From: Dominican Republic, Civil Rights and Peace Activist for Our Dominican People
First of all, there would be no violation if there were not so many Haitians coming by the thousands, I mean is not 500 is thousands crossing everyday!
From: Dominican Republic, Civil Rights and Peace Activist for Our Dominican People
We never opposed to have Haitians in DR that is impossible, like any nationality, there are good ones and bad ones, THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY of them, and due to the Haitian mode of thinking that DR should be theirs, and ALWAYS wanting to SUBJUGATE Dominicans, we should never give in the pressure put on our country by the media and NGOS that could not accomplished anything in Haiti but wants us to carry the burden.
From: United States
To airgordo you have flushed the toilet with lots of air I wasn't going to comment however haitien ..dominicans. ....mexicans ect.....if. u r. In a. Country. With no papers it s call. Illigal. .... sound verry arro8gant in my. Opinion......
Written by: airgordo, 26 Jun 2011 10:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Mr. Andujar, the REALITY is that ILLEGAL DOMINICANS are DEPORTED every day, and the people that deports them cares a sh*t about how do we feel about it, SO i also care a Sh*t about what does the haitians think about LEGALLY DONE DEPORTATIONS, Let the LAW be applied!!!
Written by: Nehesy, 27 Jun 2011 5:49 AM
From: France, Paris
"Many detained migrants are not allowed to fetch their families and many end up leaving their children alone to roam the streets of Dominican cities"
Now una diablita living in Santiago will say that Haitians do many Children and live them on the roads.
Every country has to protect his boarder and deport illegal migrants, but do it PROPERLY
From: United States
I agree as far as there is a proper way to do things. Leaving the children behind is not right. Time and manpower needs to be given for deportees to round up their families, however I can just see them scattering to the wind when immig. Agents come calling with poppa or mama in handcuffs. By the way in the USA when agents capture an illegal they just put them in jail, they don't waste time or manpower rounding up their families either and US can better afford it. Let's face it deportation is not pleasant or family friendly act. But of couse when it comes to Haitians we Dominicans have to bend over backwards 360 degrees less we be accuse of being racists. Especially by those that instituted racism ( Anglos and frenchies).
Written by: Nehesy, 28 Jun 2011 6:12 AM
From: France, Paris
@ Venganzaderafael
US, English and Frenchies are not the benchmark for Human sensitivity or Human rights I give to you...
But in France you can't deport the child of an illegal because he is French. And in 90 % of the case the Illegal parents got their official papers if their children are French citizens...
Is it right ?
I'd say yes because French stole (and are still stealing) a lot in the 1/3 world...Plus without Immigrants , France is a dead country...
DR can't afford all the misery and has to fix his own problems...I agree with that...The only thing I disagree is nasty comments/racism : Maldito/Maldita Haitiano/Haitiana , Diablo etc
An illegal gringo will not be treated the same way for sure : I know many of them in the DR and they live like kings :
- They're white
- They have money , 1eur = 50 pesos, 1 Usd = 40 pesos...
From: United States
Nehesy truly said. I believe DR has to do right by these children. They are in national limbo status without papers from Haiti or DR. I'm not saying to give citizenship to every child born on DR soil for it would be very easy for a pregnant Haitian woman to just cross the border to give birth and DR citizenship to her child. But it is time for some type of amnesty for Haitian families who have been living in DR for years with documented proof they have been working , not committed any crimes and whose children have been in DR schools since the first grade. Those kids are growing up in DR culture and probably speak only Spanish or more than Creole. Sending back these family units to Haiti would cause hardships for them. Do like US has done and normalize the lives of these kids if they have been in DR say 10 yrs (grades 1-5).
And I second your statement let's cut the nasty personal and national insults. That will not contribute to solving the situation.
Written by: airgordo, 29 Jun 2011 2:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Mr. Nehesy, although i already know... would you explain to the posters under what provisions a CHILD gets the French citinceship on their constitution???
There CAN NOT be an amnesty to Families, THAT IS TOO EASY for having BROKEN THE LAW...however i agree on the MOST DR should to is to provide a citizenship path to the CHILDS raised and spanish speaking dominican cultured, after they are CITIZENS then we could see what can be done for the parents on a LEGALLY MANNER just like a child asking his DAD to USCIS
Written by: Nehesy, 1 Jul 2011 7:08 AM
From: France, Paris
....
Written by: Nehesy, 1 Jul 2011 7:08 AM
From: France, Paris
@ Airgordo
In France you get citizenship by 2 ways :
- Born in the country
- Asking for it if you're a non resident
> Many illegals got documentation (residency and then French citizenship) in France because :
- They work and pay taxes
- They have a Flat
- They support themselves
OR
- Because their children are French
> Many Illegals are also sent back home :
- North Africans
- Subsahara Africans
- Romanians
- Chinese
> Illegals are needed in France : So employers can avoid the State Taxes
- Building Industry
- Car Industry
- Restauration
- Clothes Manufactures ( Chinese speciality)
The last National query about strangers ( legals, illegals) in france last month showed that they bring MORE to france (taxes; income by buying food, clothes,) than they receive ( Benefits). An illegal does'nt want to be caught by the system (benefit services) so he has to work..
Written by: Nehesy, 1 Jul 2011 7:09 AM
From: France, Paris
Cont 2 :
Now I didn't say that DR should apply these same practices because it's also a poor country...But A dominican born in the US is a US Citizen even if his parents broke the law ? right ?
The only thing I said , is breaking families is wrong, if you expel the parents, do the same for the childs, don't let them alone in the streets of Santiago or somewhere else...With all the crazy sick perverts tourists walking on the streets...
And Haitians I met speak very well spanish...If some places in the DR , native Dominicans listen to KOMPA, and Haitians know merengue and Bachata...
Anyway just a point a view, I'm not Dominican nor Haitian
PEACE
Written by: airgordo, 2 Jul 2011 1:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Not that it matters but Are you so sure about french citizenship?? it does not seems very easy, even says this: just because you were born in France YOU ARE NOT FRENCH..
here is some Proof:
http://www.euskosare.org/euskal_h....l_herrian_bizi/french_nationality i have a WHOLE LIST of countries that have JUS SANGUINIS or a version of it !! just like HUMAN RIGHTS place of birth la france!! so please don't tell me this
"Now I didn't say that DR should apply these same practices because it's also a poor country...But A dominican born in the US is a US Citizen even if his parents broke the law ? right ?"
or try top compare 12th world micro country as DR with the reigning power of the world which has territory for 2 billion people if not more, US is bigger than China and India isn't it?? for DR is a SURVIVAL MATTER!!! we are almost 20 MILLION on this Island!!!
I think the only good thing that the USELESS politicos have done is the nationality article on DR constitu
Written by: Nehesy, 8 Oct 2011 5:29 PM
From: France, Paris
Airgordo
if born in France you are automatically french. It has been Like this since a long Time : italians,polish,spanish the first immigrants became french by this way the Like of Raymond kopa the former soccer of real de madrid. Only the far right wants to change this:they want the children with foreign background to ask officially for the nationality at 18 [act of willingness] but since they're not in power...your children is born in France he is french straight away.
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Work on those aspects of the problem and the rest of the issues will decrease enormously.
If Haiti is unable, unwilling, whatever, to enforce its side of the border, than the UN or international community needs to patrol the border and protect the people from illegally crossing. Hunt down the traffickers, Bounties for their heads??
@RobertoJose - its easy to say that when you are not IN that situation. OBVIOUSLY then there must be an extreme state of despair. You should show more respect and compassion.
From: United States
And this is just the tip of iceberg. It's sad yes; but the international Community must set this straight and realize once and for all that Haiti as presently constituted is not viable. Begin a long term, say 20 year, de-population program. France, that historical predator with much Haitian blood + gold on her hands, should help out organizing the mass migration out of Haiti and into the wider Francophone community of nations. No nation need take in too many, but just stemming the growth and gaining some measure of downward projection of the population will have far more beneficial consequences for the island of Hispaniola than many other schemes. The island needs some breathing room! All the aid and help in the world will prove small if Haiti's population continues to increase. 75-100,000 families per year, for 20 years, spread out throughout the world, especially the Francophone community of nations would do the trick.
Migrants? Illegal Immigrants is more like it
I agree that the numbers on Illegal Haitians are too high and that it needs to be taken under control, just like I agree with Atabey's comment of depopulating the Haitian nation (I actually would use even more aggressive numbers as I have posted on this subject in the past)
BUT, Yucahu, let's be human about things. There is no need to offend or damn the Haitianos ("maldito") as you posted. We need to be civil to create a more civil society.
In regard to your depopulation agenda consider both countries population and birth rate what do you proposed for your side of the island mass castration perhaps.
It would validated your proposition if perhaps you knew a bit more about what you are talking about. As per square miles Haiti is totally under develop. It used to produced enough food to feed it's self until the early 80's under the guise of IMF debt restructuring it was forced to abandoned agriculture for US farmer subsidized imports. The annihilation of the creole pork and replacement by those from Arkansas was another blow the Haitian farmer never recover from. What Haiti needs to deal with its population issue is a program of decentralization which became more necessary after the Jan 12 Quake. It was part of the economic plan approved by the world bank which was being implemented by the Preval administration before the Jan 12 Quake. Control of the borders a must from both
I think it is you that needs to see reality. Haiti's population is, at least, 10 million strong. You say that she was feeding her population back in 1980s, but the real point is how well was she feeding that population? And now with probably 2 or more million extra to feed, Haiti can not feed itself. The past is past as they say. Think about the future and how Haiti can get out of this horrendous situation. At present, a smaller version of the de-population scheme is being done! Except that instead of a Global wide effort to alleviate the population pressure in Haiti, the method being used is the eastward flow of the excess population into DR! All I've suggested is that the International Community SHARE the burden with DR. Why should DR have to take in millions? DR is still under REAL Domestic pressures from ITS OWN underdevelopment with large populations of poverty, ill-educated, ill-housed, etc. The wage depression caused by poor Haitians
I hope the Haitian people can improve their current situation; i would like nothing better it's for the benefit of both countries. But let’s face it, Mr. Martelly is just trying to make a name for himself and I assure you he is more of the same. He looks to the international community to solve the Haitian problem which is ok he sure needs help, but first why not organize a well formed government that can exercise some form of control and this way he will be able to administer foreign aid with success.
I hope our government doesn’t adopt the defeatist attitude you express. I know there are Haitians in DR but it has to be kept at a manageable number, otherwise we compromise civil order. And think about how many poor Dominicans there are right now in the country, the Haitian migrants just add to this problem. It is imperative for the country to keep things under control if it hopes for social and economical development. I am an immigrant myself and the way I see things the law has to be respected and enforced. Weather it is in the US or in the DR I agree with strict laws towards illegal immigration. Haitians in DR that have proper documentation should be respected and treated as citizens just as Dominicans, but those that break the law by illegally crossing the border should be punished and deported.
The solution is not that hard. There was another small island in the Caribbean that was under extreme population pressure and one of the pillars of that entity's development and modernization was a de-population scheme that broke the back of the population dynamic on the island. The population pressures was subsumed unto a far larger landmass and the population bomb was "defused" without much of a bang in the huge continental landmass of North America. Hint: La Isla del Encanto!
Look back to the 1900 census and PR had close to 1 million people! More than the DR!! When the Bootstrap Program began in earnest about the 1940s, huge numbers of Puerto Ricans left PR, many were poor and were actually encouraged by their government and by the US, to seek out their future in the US. Well, now there are more Puerto Ricans in the USA than living in PR itself! 4.5 in the mainland versus 3.9-4.0 on the island. Unfortunately Haiti will not get the same treatment. So the
En la Republica Dominicana nacen hijos de Haitainos que no le dan ciudadania porque sus padres son ilegales. Si nacen en tierra Dominicana que tiene que ver si sus padres son ilegales o no? A los que nacen hijos de gente que cometen peores crimenes que entrar al pais ilegalmente les dan ciudadania. Porque a ellos no? Usted vive en los Estados Unidos porque a usted le dieron los propios papeles. Pero, yo estoy seguro que si en Santo Domingo se los "estuviera llevando el Diablo" como en Haiti, hacen siglos que usted se montaria en yola hacea Puerto Rico. Y no es que tengo un "defeatist attitude " como dice usted, es la verdad. Si, estoy de acuerdo de que hay que haber mas control en la frontera, pero esto no es algo que nacio ayer y que no se va a solucionar mañana, ni tampoco discutiendo el heco aqui. Gracias.
I understand what youre saying. But why hasnt France made Haiti an Overseas Department? I beleive thats what its called. And you mentioned Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States. They are born American citizens. It wasnt too hard for Luis Muñoz Marin's "Operation Bootstrap" to come into play.
quote: you will be surprised to know that those who post the most vicuous comments toward Haitians are themselves of Haitian origin__It is just a way to deny their Haitian encestry__
I'm starting to get the same feeling too...
@Atabey
You seem to have an answer for everything....You should ask Lionel to make you the ambassador of the D.R in Haiti.
@Yucahu,
You should take your frustration out on the streets of Miami.... I'm sure you'll find alot of Haitians overthere waiting on you... but the again your probably Haitian too lol
Reading the the peoples comments is often more informative and entertaining than the original article itself.
DR1.com is far more better !
From: United States
Hernandez,
En la Republica Dominicana nacen hijos de Haitainos que no le dan ciudadania porque sus padres son ilegales. Si nacen en tierra Dominicana que tiene que ver si sus padres son ilegales o no? A los que nacen hijos de gente que cometen peores crimenes que entrar al pais ilegalmente les dan ciudadania. Porque a ellos no? Usted vive en los Estados Unidos porque a usted le dieron los propios papeles. Pero, yo estoy seguro que si en Santo Domingo se los "estuviera llevando el Diablo" como en Haiti, hacen siglos que usted se montaria en yola hacea Puerto Rico. Y no es que tengo un "defeatist attitude " como dice usted, es la verdad. Si, estoy de acuerdo de que hay que haber mas control en la frontera, pero esto no es algo que nacio ayer y que no se va a solucionar mañana, ni tampoco discutiendo el heco aqui. Gracias
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Pero el caso NO es el "HUBIERA" esto no es un SUPESTO, es una realidad que tenemos! DESP
From: United States
I have been siting at work during breaks reading this. Ensult toward haitiens ...I don't believe in religions however if the is a god some of will go sraight to hell.. I wonder how the puerto rican feel about the domimican I ve been to venezuala there not to happy about dominicans over there either. .....
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BOTH VENEZUELA and PUERTO RICO, DEPORT illegal Dominicans, AND THERE IS NO COMPLAIN HERE... so your "point" has just been flushed on the Toilet...
I don't want to sound arrogant, but is a STUPIDITY even dare to compare ANYTHING involving dominicans being illegal with Haitians being the same
First of all, there would be no violation if there were not so many Haitians coming by the thousands, I mean is not 500 is thousands crossing everyday!
We never opposed to have Haitians in DR that is impossible, like any nationality, there are good ones and bad ones, THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY of them, and due to the Haitian mode of thinking that DR should be theirs, and ALWAYS wanting to SUBJUGATE Dominicans, we should never give in the pressure put on our country by the media and NGOS that could not accomplished anything in Haiti but wants us to carry the burden.
Now una diablita living in Santiago will say that Haitians do many Children and live them on the roads.
Every country has to protect his boarder and deport illegal migrants, but do it PROPERLY
US, English and Frenchies are not the benchmark for Human sensitivity or Human rights I give to you...
But in France you can't deport the child of an illegal because he is French. And in 90 % of the case the Illegal parents got their official papers if their children are French citizens...
Is it right ?
I'd say yes because French stole (and are still stealing) a lot in the 1/3 world...Plus without Immigrants , France is a dead country...
DR can't afford all the misery and has to fix his own problems...I agree with that...The only thing I disagree is nasty comments/racism : Maldito/Maldita Haitiano/Haitiana , Diablo etc
An illegal gringo will not be treated the same way for sure : I know many of them in the DR and they live like kings :
- They're white
- They have money , 1eur = 50 pesos, 1 Usd = 40 pesos...
And I second your statement let's cut the nasty personal and national insults. That will not contribute to solving the situation.
There CAN NOT be an amnesty to Families, THAT IS TOO EASY for having BROKEN THE LAW...however i agree on the MOST DR should to is to provide a citizenship path to the CHILDS raised and spanish speaking dominican cultured, after they are CITIZENS then we could see what can be done for the parents on a LEGALLY MANNER just like a child asking his DAD to USCIS
In France you get citizenship by 2 ways :
- Born in the country
- Asking for it if you're a non resident
> Many illegals got documentation (residency and then French citizenship) in France because :
- They work and pay taxes
- They have a Flat
- They support themselves
OR
- Because their children are French
> Many Illegals are also sent back home :
- North Africans
- Subsahara Africans
- Romanians
- Chinese
> Illegals are needed in France : So employers can avoid the State Taxes
- Building Industry
- Car Industry
- Restauration
- Clothes Manufactures ( Chinese speciality)
The last National query about strangers ( legals, illegals) in france last month showed that they bring MORE to france (taxes; income by buying food, clothes,) than they receive ( Benefits). An illegal does'nt want to be caught by the system (benefit services) so he has to work..
Now I didn't say that DR should apply these same practices because it's also a poor country...But A dominican born in the US is a US Citizen even if his parents broke the law ? right ?
The only thing I said , is breaking families is wrong, if you expel the parents, do the same for the childs, don't let them alone in the streets of Santiago or somewhere else...With all the crazy sick perverts tourists walking on the streets...
And Haitians I met speak very well spanish...If some places in the DR , native Dominicans listen to KOMPA, and Haitians know merengue and Bachata...
Anyway just a point a view, I'm not Dominican nor Haitian
PEACE
here is some Proof: http://www.euskosare.org/euskal_h....l_herrian_bizi/french_nationality
i have a WHOLE LIST of countries that have JUS SANGUINIS or a version of it !! just like HUMAN RIGHTS place of birth la france!! so please don't tell me this
"Now I didn't say that DR should apply these same practices because it's also a poor country...But A dominican born in the US is a US Citizen even if his parents broke the law ? right ?"
or try top compare 12th world micro country as DR with the reigning power of the world which has territory for 2 billion people if not more, US is bigger than China and India isn't it?? for DR is a SURVIVAL MATTER!!! we are almost 20 MILLION on this Island!!!
I think the only good thing that the USELESS politicos have done is the nationality article on DR constitu
if born in France you are automatically french. It has been Like this since a long Time : italians,polish,spanish the first immigrants became french by this way the Like of Raymond kopa the former soccer of real de madrid. Only the far right wants to change this:they want the children with foreign background to ask officially for the nationality at 18 [act of willingness] but since they're not in power...your children is born in France he is french straight away.