So what do you expect. The roads here are so bad that you have to drive like a drunken salior to miss all the holes. Ever watch a Dominican drive around a curve.

Better road Infrastructure is urgently needed BUT what would greatly advance developments is a sustainable effort of removing and stiff fines against the owners of vehicles using the roads illegally. Either by having disrespect or violated the rules of the road or putting extra weight on damaged vehicles to save from needed repairs.

Terrible road conditions and drivers and passengers that refuse to use seat belts and shoulder harnesses.

The transition from mule and horse based transportation was too quick.

The motorcycle and car manufacturers haven't still found a way to instill some of the animal's street wits in the skull of Dominican drivers.

Lies, lies and damn lies!
This report was obviously produced by jealous, haters of this magnificent country, (probably Haitian or Australian) trying to pull us down. Well it just won't work. Okay, not every road or driver is perfect, but its the same in every country, and most are a lot worse, I can imagine.
DT can you stop printing this propaganda - we only want good news. Tell about how much money ex-Dominican baseball-players get in America, and how we have the best, cleanest beaches in the world, okay?

Roystone- Lol You are a pain in the ass. That's a compliment.

Thanks for the complement, Pedrin, I'm acclimatizing.

The shocking state of the roads actually saves lives. Its not easy to drive really fast here, and still have a suspension.

Causes:

Driver ignorance
Poor road infrastructure
Selective enforcement or no enforcement of traffic laws
No jail sentences for drunk drivers, take away license they still drive
No inpounding of junk vehicles
Lack of discipline within government ranks to set good a example to the public, ie: AMET cops without helmets on a moto --- http://www.flickr.com/photos/vagabundo/968095003/

Public not demanding government to take action

Wait, are they including moto drivers in these numbers? Motorcycles in DR will bring these numbers way up!

"Drivers Ed" is all I'm saying


The victims family of that car will be lucky if they get junk yard money from that accident.

I was in santiago once and a garbage truck ripped off the fender of my cousins taxi, pealed it right off with the part they stand on in the rear of the truck.....lol.. the driver looked at us and smirked, shrugged his shoulders and said " Tu saves que no ay securo" and kept it moving..lol..., I had to stop my cousin from shooting into the drivers compartment...

The lack of any traffic enforcement is the root cause of this. Ever sit at a red light and count the cars and trucks that run them at the posted speed. The way they drive the highways without regard for the other driver, tailgating passing on curves and trying to physically run off the road a slow driver. That along with vehicles that should never be allowed on any road much less a highway is another. If they actually put a policeman at the main intersections around the Country could have enough money collected from fines to repair the roads. The semis that leave a cloud of black smoke worse than fog from a worn out engine, tires that are bald and other mechanical defects. Who inspects the trucks and vehicles anyway? My first trip from the Capitol in a cab to Puerta Plata was hair raising and that comes from a world traveler. Motor cycles driving on the shoulder going the wrong direction and red light running. Get some enforcement and impound the vehicles deemed unsafe and reckless

Written by: Atabey, 26 Jan 2012 8:30 AM
From: United States
Better road Infrastructure is urgently needed BUT what would greatly advance developments is a sustainable effort of removing and stiff fines against the owners of vehicles using the roads illegally.

SHOW ME A STUDY THAT PROVES THAT ROAD FATALITIES ARE A FUNCTION OF POOR ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE. then, show me proof that the roads in the countries with better results are better than the roads here.

The report is misleading because it seems to only take into consideration mortality rate and not road conditions, yes road conditions in the DR are not the best (though there are some very good decent roads out there), but I highly doubt that the road conditions in the DR are the worse in the hemisphere. I have been to place like Nicaragua, for example, and have read and seen pictures of roads in Peru for example that are simply hazardous... the main problem in the DR roads are the DRIVERS! They have no regards of others.

Dominicans are very nice and courteous people, until they are behind the wheel. We feel that we have the right of way to do what ever is on our mind when driving and curse everyone that gets on our way.

lovingit, you answered part of my question to Professor Atabey

latinos are nororious for being dumb asses on the road , nothing new there.

I do not believe it is bad drivers but the total lack of respect for the LAW...

Dominicans are very nice and courteous people, until they are behind the wheel. We feel that we have the right of way to do what ever is on our mind when driving and curse everyone that gets on our way.

it has to do with the propensity to act without thinking of consequences, and possibilities. this is going to tick people off, but i do not care, as long as it is true. things which cme normal to most people, do not dawn on many people here. last night, i saw this guy setting up gigantic speakers, on the sidewalk, and blasting the entire area with shouting religious rants. it did not even occur to him that maybe, just maybe, some people do not want to hear it, wanted some quiet, had kids who needed to rest, or any such thing. all he knew was that he wanted to do it. the heck with everyone else. that is the driving style. i will blind you with 10 million candlepower of xenon lights, overtake where i feel like, and drive like i am on the road , alone. up yours.

Respect.... there is very little of it .... for anything or anyone.... roads or other...

i watch these guys, on scooters, blasting out onto the sidewalk, bird speed, from an alley. they do not have the faintest idea that they could hurt, or worse, kill someone. as far as they are concerned, it is your responsibility to get out of their way. they have no duty to act responsibly. it is all a part of the same dynamic that makes people shout at the tops of their voices, oblivious to the fact that they might be disturbing others. driving through a neighborhood, at 3 am, with a thousand watts of blaring subwoofer, is a norm. who cares if it awakens a few hundred schoolkids, who need some sleep to got to school in the morning? it is NOT the roads! it is the guys using the roads. it is the innate selfish, devil may care, attitude of too many people here. disobeying lights, parking against traffic, overtaking around corners, you name it. and, it is not just the poor slobs. the rich guys, and the politicos, are just as guilty. talk about a bad example.

Dready,
It is not easy to determine what is the main factor - bad drivers, un-roadworthy vehicles, bad roads or lack of law enforcement, since countries with good roads, also tend to enforce road-rules, vehicle roadworthiness and good driving habits. This country gets a fail on all four. Perhaps they can all be summarized into on - bad attitude?

Attitude.. Yes... attitude to respect is my gripe...... and the lack of respect to anyone other than the self....

Yes, getting that attitude level righted is definitely needed. Too many cowboy guys on the roads.

But better roads and maintenance are factors, too.

BTW, Dready if I'm not responding fast enough to your posts be informed that I just had this procedure done to my left shoulder. http://youtu.be/_JeQn8e8FPw So the typing isn't as fast as usual.

But rest assure I will always help you in reasoning away your poor thinking on matters.

at least i can think, unlike you. you have not evolved to that level, still being in the primate stage.

Rest assure Le Dready, I've sacrificed my left arm for the GREATER glory of my right! And will slay your misguided thoughts asunder.

Sadomasochism........Atabey, you love it..

I guess you don't recall Le Dready's challenge that he would pester me until the end on DT?

Of course, just because I disagree with Dready on some matters, I don't want to see the walls "cave in" on him nor any relative or friend of his.

lol.....I do remember..

its squashed already.....just because someone mentioned pork chop, you assumed that's what I meant in my " Hope It Caves IN".... its alright, you and I still disagree on 90% of whats being shoveled to the public.... I STILL LUVYA MAN!!!!

Roy Stone,,,having barely said a positive thing about the DR ,,you are actually accusing Dominicans of having a bad attitude ..I am sure the Dominicans living in Australia keep their complaints to themselves

90%!

Wow, that's even more than my disagreement with Dready!

All I'm saying and trying to get across is that we need to be reasonable and have some historical perspective or recall in guiding us on matters. It took an awful long time to get the Dominican Republic into poor shape and it's going to take some time to right the ship. While I've never said that LF is perfect, he's far the better leader to the likes of the Hippo and many others that have held the Presidency of our nation. Could more have been accomplished? Yes. Less corruption? You bet. But in the overall scheme of things, LF will go down on the positive ledger of the scale in Dominican history. Politics is the art of the possible; and were men angles governments wouldn't be needed. Let's hope this next leader surprises us and does better than expected for all Dominicans.

I would like to see congress get more involved in the decision these half arse leaders make....that's my real gripe. Everything leo does goes unchallenged and its wrong, 75% of the work force make less than 300USD a month and there're happy.....it makes my stomach churn

How many on this site actually wait at a red light late night waiting to get robbed?
I always respect all of the lights.

Written by: RobertoJose, 26 Jan 2012 4:11 PM
From: United States, FREEPORT, Long Island.... (Look, beyond the words)
I would like to see congress get more involved in the decision these half arse leaders make....that's my real gripe. Everything leo does goes unchallenged and its wrong, 75% of the work force make less than 300USD a month and they're happy.....it makes my stomach churn"

BTW, CHECK OUT THIS:

http://www.ifad.org/gbdocs/eb/99/e/EB-2010-99-R-10.pdf

AND

http://www.seic.gov.do/comercioex....glish%20Version%20-%20101019_.pdf

Atabey, what does all that you have written in this article have to do with road safety?

I was posting to RobertoJose.

A little zoological point, Dready
You accuse Aterbey of "still being in the primate stage."
We are Homo sapiens, so we are all Primates, or still the primate stage.

In fact along with chimpanzees, we are in the Himinini clade, which
along with gorillas we are in the Homininae clade, which
along with orangutans we are in the Hominidae clade, which
along with gorillas we are in the Homininae clade, which
along with gibbons we are in the Hominoidea clade, which
along with Old World monkeys we are in the Catarrhini clade, which
along with New World monkeys we are in the Simiiformes clade, which
along with tarsiers we are in the aplorhini clade, which
along with lemurs, lorises and allies, are Primates
Got it?

Boy I almost lost track of what the article was about. Actually Roy's four points on the problem with
Dominican traffic are all equally responsible. In order to correct this problem all four points would have to be simultaneously addressed. Especially the drivers' general attitudes towards safety . (Pulling out or not using seatbelts and the need for speed).

The last time I drove in greater Santo Domingo was 1998, I had to drive across John F. Kennedy Avenue. I remember distinctly that there were no lane markings on that major thoroughfare. When I finally exited JFK Avenue; I counted my blessing.

rjmathome,
Dominicans totally ignore lane marking anyway. Everywhere is no-mans-land (Including the sidewalk).

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but does or has anyone realize how beautiful Santo Domingo skyline is? I've visited all the major cities in South & Central America. Our skyline is fuller than theirs. I am proud of the newly acquired beauty of our city. Also, I do not recall seeing a modern railway system in any other Latin American city. Has anyone? Does anyone know or is Santo Domingo de Guzman the only Caribbean/Latin capital city with a modern railway system?

Does anyone know or is Santo Domingo de Guzman the only Caribbean/Latin capital city with a modern railway system?

you mean the Metro? sorry, but San Juan, PR, beat Leonel to the punch

That explains the horrible driving in Washington Heights.

Funny discussion. How many of you ever drove here?
Of course you are right. Dominicans are driving like crazies. Since more than two years I have to drive all over the island every two weeks, 900 kms plus each time. Which means I survived close to 50.000 kms. I have to cross Santiago and Santo Domingo, San Pedro, La Romana and Puerto Plata. And I like it. And I enjoy it. When you get used to the style, it's generally no problem. Just flow with them. And if you are drunk, it's no problem, because it's the same as if you drive sober. If you make a mistake, nobody cares, so don't care about the others either. Holes are there - you know it. So why get angry every time? But there are also very good roads all over the country. Not everything is bad. Just relax, Gringo. And hope that nothing happens to you!

I don't believe in Jesus. I don't know if that helps when driving.

Case in point:
My neighbor's son just had his 7th motorbike accident this afternoon.
He's only 18 and rides to school on his unworthy, unlicensed motorbike, and still does not have a license himself. The time before last he hit a car at an intersection, while carrying 2 paying passengers. The driver took him to the hospital and paid for his X-rays and treatment. The police then locked up the driver and waited to see if the kid's parents wanted to go the driver for compensation, before releasing him, even though he was technically blameless. The police knew the boy was underage and unlicensed but didn't charge, fine, warn or even chastise him. He'll be back riding his bike as soon as it's repaired.

par for the course, Roy. i was hit by a 15 year old kid, while i sat waiting for a light to change. his father wanted me to pay the hospital. i told him that i would rather die, than spring 5 pesos for an aspirin. he gave up bothering me when he realized that i was as serious as cancer.

Dread, good thing his dad was not one of AnthonyC's gun-totin' NRA mates - he may have taken you up on the other option.

animals drive in this country It's dangerous to drive here

Written by: RoyStone, 27 Jan 2012 7:28 PM
From: Australia
Dread, good thing his dad was not one of AnthonyC's gun-totin' NRA mates - he may have taken you up on the other option.

or, worse yet, one of his Alpha 66 buddies. he would have blown up my ride.

You may as well put an asterisk next to Cuba in regards to having among the lowest road mortality rates, as a very tiny fraction of the population own a vehicle.

Out in the campo some people are still using horse and cart for transportation..........................how can you get into an accident in one of them?, LMAO

very true, DRmaker. then again, how do you balance that against the fact that Puerto Rico has the highest density of cars in the caribbean, yet has a lower accident rate than the DR?

DRmaker,
Horse and cart are still extensively used in rural parts of the Dominican Republic. However I agree that most horses have more road-sense than many of the drivers here.
Cattle and other animals wandering on the streets also present a hazard.
After leaving the bar, many drivers have also hit trees unexpectedly jumping out in front of them.

How is it that bike have so many more right than cars here? My friend got T-boned by one that ran a stop sign at night with no lights, he had to pay to fix the bike and the hospital bill. My wife keeps on at me to look out for them when driving even if they are going the wrong way down a one way, running red lights on and on they get away with everything... it pisses me off on end to see no regard for other drivers and no respect for basic road rules here.... The DR have such great people but give them a bike or put them behind the wheel and those same people lose all respect for rules and decency...

stillhere,
I too would like to know the reason, but certainly in a collision, liability has nothing to do with road-rules or who is a fault. It seems to be some form of socialism. If you have a car you can afford to pay, especially if you are a gringo.
I would also like to know why guys have a right to drive or ride motorbikes, with or without a license, regardless of how drunk, whereas with few exceptions, women don't.

Well, welcome to the DR and the dominican mentallity. Education might have given it a few inches forward at best.

on my very first trip to this country, i saw something i had never seen before, in all my life. i went into a chica bar, and i noticed the every time a girl needed to take a whizz, or something else, she would go to the cashier, and petition her for a handful of paper napkins. iasked a girl why would they not just take the easy route, and leave a roll of toilet paper in the bathroom. the answer was the the first girl into the bathroom would steal the roll, and put it in her handbag. why do i mention this, you ask? well,in the context of a public setting, like a bar, things like soap, and paper,are COMMUNAL goods. they are for everyone to use. those who violate that principle are unaware, or oblivious to, the concept of society, and think everything revolves around them. the idea that another person might need the paper is a foreign concept. all they understand is that they can save themselves 10 pesos, by stealing the roll.

that extends to all habits, not the least of which , is driving. people go down one way streets, because it is, in their minds, the shortest route, and it saves THEIR time. who cares if it endangers others? they go through signs that say NO ENTRY, because they do not want to take the longer way around. they park, blocking traffic, because that is where they were headed, and they do not want to walk 20 yards. similarly, they drive at 90 miles per hour in an area which calls for 40 mph, because that is what they want to do. so, get out of their way. save yourself. women and children first.

Absolutely, Dready, the toilet-roll example epitomizes the Dominican attitude. However what I don't understand, is why is it so? Until this is known, it will never change. Maybe Dominicans are happy with the way things are, so who are we to criticize? People here seem happy enough, so why change anything?

However this fools-paradise cannot last. sooner or later the bubble will burst, and I suspect sooner rather than later. Hopefully my wife and I will be safely back in Oz before then.

it is so, because it is the example that is set, from on high. that is why all politicians steal everything that is not nailed down. they cannot grasp the notion that the national coffers belong to the collective population, to serve, and to improve the lot of people. all they understand is that they want a new jeepeta, and a high rise condo. therefore, they take what they need, or want, and, should that result in sub-optimal outcomes for the population at large, tough titty. ever seen the average guy in a car, approaching a congested setting? what does he do? does he apply his brakes? of course not! he sits on the horn. translated into social language, that means"get out of MY way" make sure that when i get to where you are, you will have already moved. that, my friend, is the reason for at least a percentage of the accidents.

Written by: dreadlocks, 28 Jan 2012 1:44 PM
From: United States
very true, DRmaker. then again, how do you balance that against the fact that Puerto Rico has the highest density of cars in the caribbean, yet has a lower accident rate than the DR?"

Could it partly be because PR has a better road system than the DR? You know: more consistent maintenance and more build up per capital, size of territory, etc.

asks Bell Curve

Could it partly be because PR has a better road system than the DR? You know: more consistent maintenance and more build up per capital, size of territory, etc.

you asked the question, so answer it, then. i know that the research will take some time and effort, and you might have to deal with figures. give it a shot, and show us what a bright guy like you is capable of. the door is wide open. please, just facts , and data. no opinions.

Aren't you the Stats guy?

Go for it Dready.

Whatever happened to that "i'm only convinced with numbers" guy? The old Dready?? Where he go Man?

hey Atabey, while you prepare your dissertation, please include the following

a breakdown of the types of fatal accidents, by vehicle

a breakdown of fatal accidents, by location, be it city, suburbs, or rural

a breakdown of fatal accidents, by demographics, like economic status, age, areas of residence

a breakdown of fatal accidents by number of victims per occurrence

a breakdown based on vehicle mechanical failure

a breakdown based on operator error, such as ignoring signals, passing around a bend,falling asleep at the wheel, distraction, etc.

with those rubrics, we should be able to see a meaningful product from you. hop to it.

Dready and Roy's analysis of the general attitude in DR are unfortunately accurate on many levels. There is a loss of values in these last two generations ( as in many societies) whiich has coincided with the loss of faith and the moral values it provides. Reinforcing the concept that there is no Higher Authority we must answer to, gives people motivation to live for the here and now, self gratifiying, get all I can attitude. Shame, loss of paradise.

sad, but true, verganzaderafael. it is only getting worse. as i watch 10 year old kids using the foulest of profanities in the presence of 60 year old ladies, it tells me that all is lost. you cannot fix this.

venganzaderafael,

You need to understand the difference between correlation and causation. The fact that loss of religious faith and loss of respect for elders are both increasing, does not mean there is any more causation than the fact that the use of acrylic paint compared to oil-based paint is also increasing.

Also there are so many exceptions that shoot your theory down in flames. For example, rates of crime, corruption and murder are far higher in devoutly Christian countries compared to predominantly Atheist countries.

Let me ask you, if you stopped believing in the invisible man in the sky, would you revert to a "get all I can" attitude too?

Roy, no I wouldn't but my morals have already been established. If tomorrow we get definite proof all the wonders and laws of the universe just occurred by happenstance, I would still have a moral compass. Perhaps that is the reason those raised in a society where a religious reason for moral behavior is the norm, go askew when that authority is lacking or discredited. As oppose to societies where the moral imperative is taught thru other means( higher education) and therefore maintain a moral discipline. Ex: on a trip once with my father to Dominican, we were driving with family members in separate cars. As our car came to a stop at a rare red light, our family member pulled up and said it was alright to run the red at night if no cars are coming.
This was before the advent of carjacking. My father refused to follow across the intersection and pointed out to me that that was the difference between an ordered and organized society vs an underdeveloped one.

Therefore the breakdown in formerly predominantly christian societies. If the muslim countries were to lose faith and find out there is no Allah and no 47 virgins I'd be in fear of the world surviving. It does seem that reasonably everyone should go atheist. But that why they call it faith.

Go figure ... a common site Canadian visitor's can expect to see in Puerto Plata... five people on a motorcycle, maybe the driver has a helmut, usually a mother and three children ...

In Canada the driver would be arrested on the spot and the motorcycle confiscated, the mother would be arrested immediately for child endangerment and the three kids put into public foster care and then weeks later the courts would decide if the kids could go back with the mother or end up being raised 'inside the system' ...

FedericoD, the same applies in most civilized countries - that is why it almost never happens there, while it is very, very common here.
I've heard the excuses, but none are valid.
Many pregnancies, especially of school-girls are unplanned and unwanted. They attempt to induce an abortion with some concoction of pills and herbs, but it almost never works. There are many child-less couples in civilized countries on waiting-lists to adopt, but once the hormones kick in, adoption is out of the question for these girls. The abortion failed because Jesus decided they should have the baby. They drop of school, get kicked of home and move in with the boy's family, then keep having more babies and get fat, while the boy gets other girlfriends.

Written by: Atabey, 29 Jan 2012 2:33 PM
From: United States
Aren't you the Stats guy?

Go for it Dready.

Whatever happened to that "i'm only convinced with numbers" guy? The old Dready?? Where he go Man?

if you notice, you are the one that posed the issue. i merely suggested an instrument by which you could get to the answer. i did it in jest, knowing full well that you are , firstly, too lazy to do the study, and secondly, completely incompetent to undertake such a task. if you cannot cut and paste someone else's efforts, you are lost at sea.

says RoyStone

Many pregnancies, especially of school-girls are unplanned and unwanted.

i passed by the home of a buddy of mine, just last night, to pick up something i loaned him. there, on the couch, was his 15 year old daughter, still in her school uniform. beside her, all kissing and smooching, was a guy of about 30 years, dressed in his company attire, nameplate and all. six , or so, neighbors were on various chairs, watching the ballgame. mom and dad had no problems allowing this older guy to court their underage child, knowing full well the almost inevitable consequences of such entreaties. yes, yet more unwanted, unplanned for, kids. i remember a time when no member of the male gender could ever hold as much as a fleeting conversation with a very young lady, in the presence of her father, or the idea of shotguns would become very current.

What I've noticed is an interesting correlation between your sourced information and the statistical truth.

Now, Dready please provide the links to your sources. I almost always do!

---------------
As to your comments on underage relationships and poor family fundamentals or structure, I agree with you; too much un-structured family environments only yields very bitter fruits.

Written by: Atabey, 30 Jan 2012 11:02 AM
From: United States
What I've noticed is an interesting correlation between your sourced information and the statistical truth.

Now, Dready please provide the links to your sources. I almost always do!

as a master statistician, deciphering the inconsistencies should be a breeze for you.

An interesting story, Dready, and not atypical I'm sure.

Perhaps you could ask the mother, what she will do when her daughter falls pregnant, or if she has ensured her daughter has availed herself of the free contraception available from the government clinic.

Let me guess the response: "My little princess had a proper Christian upbringing and would never dream of having sex before marriage."

This may seem to have nothing to do with this country's appalling road-death rate, but it has everything to do with it. It is the attitude that makes Dominicans refuse to see what is staring them right in the face. It's called "delusion" and the church and the government depend on it.

ROY,

This issue of underage, overwhelming young females with much older males, is so ingrained in Dominican customs that only via a strong push to institutionalized education will we likely see a diminution of the long held cultural practice in DR. When young women see better potential futures in going to school and marrying like minded young males, then the customs will largely die out. You will always have some percentage that defy the norms.

This issue of underage, overwhelming young females with much older males, is so ingrained in Dominican customs that only via a strong push to institutionalized education will we likely see a diminution of the long held cultural practice in DR. When young women see better potential futures in going to school and marrying like minded young males, then the customs will largely die out. You will always have some percentage that defy the norms.

care to cite a study proving the causative links between formalized education and a reduction in teen pregnancy?some cross country regressions, perhaps? remember , Atabey, you are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

Dare I state the obvious:

If you believe my musings to be irrational and unsupported by the statistical facts, please feel liberated to cite your evidence.

Likewise, I do not think these attitudes are learned or unlearned in school whether adequate or not. Attitudes, like religious faith, are ingrained long before reaching school-age and the ability to think.

"Give me the child until he is 7 and I will give you the man"
The Jesuits

Written by: Atabey, 30 Jan 2012 12:30 PM
From: United States
Dare I state the obvious:

If you believe my musings to be irrational and unsupported by the statistical facts, please feel liberated to cite your evidence.


actually, i am a guy who gives people the benefit of the doubt. so, you first. give me your studies, and, i might agree, or disagree. that does not mean that i will be right, but at least i want a basis to examine the issue

I stated my position now it's on you to state:

a. I agree
b. I don't agree and here's my supporting evidence.
c. I don't know


I guess you really mean a or c, but are reluctant to state it in public.

Written by: Atabey, 30 Jan 2012 1:48 PM
From: United States
I stated my position now it's on you to state:

a. I agree
b. I don't agree and here's my supporting evidence.
c. I don't know


I guess you really mean a or c, but are reluctant to state it in public.

you stated nothing. maybe in your simple mind, you made a statement. you posed a query. you asked a question, and i suggested how you might answer it. i gave you a list of the rubrics that you could apply in order to fashion an investigative model, but you do not have the intellectual firepower needed to accomplish the task. i knew it would be beyond you, but it was a foray into the world of rhetorical exercises.

el cabrón habla. where is your evidence? slanderer and calumniator.