SANTO DOMINGO.- Leaders and members of the Haitian community Friday rejected claims by Haitian priest Francis Haver, who affirmed Wednesday his countrymen should apologize to Dominicans for subjecting them to 22 years of backwardness.
The economist and political scientist Harold Pierre called such statements "nonsense," while former Haitian consul Edwin Paraison dubbed the suggestion as exaggerated and out of tune.
Paraison, who’s also a preacher, said Haver has a misconception of forgiveness from the theological and pastoral standpoint of the context of Haiti-Dominican relations. "Forgiveness should be reciprocal, meaning that the current generation of Haitians and Dominicans do at some point an act of forgiveness for the mistakes of our leaders and ancestors to leave the animosities of the past behind and bolster the peaceful coexistence on the island."
Insults on the social networks also surged, some calling Haver "lambon" (suck up) and another "mentally unbalanced."
They also question the Haitian priest’s charge of having caused backwardness for Dominicans, disregarding Haitian laborers’ actual contribution of to Dominican Republic’s progress.
A tweet also reproached the prelate’s failure to cite Haiti’s helping Dominicans recover their independence during the War of Restoration against Spain in 1865.
The priest’s statement: "I studied in history that Haitians occupied the Dominican Republic for 22 years, now all Haitians should get on their knees and apologize to the Dominicans, because for 22 years held the country back and kept it from advancing further."
Written by: generoso, 20 Jul 2012 2:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Dominicans don't want Haitian on their knees begging for forgiveness. We want Haitians to go back to Haiti, or Ayiti, or La Belle Creole, but just go back.........s'il vous plait?
Written by: BASTA, 20 Jul 2012 2:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all
generoso,== 20--------------------s Dork
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jul 2012 2:48 PM
From: United States, NYC
Turkey’s Human Rights Hypocrisy
Turkey must atone for its own past crimes before lecturing others on human rights.
"Using documents from the Ottoman government archives in Istanbul, which were once classified as top secret, I have sought to pull back the veil on Turkey’s century of denial. These documents clearly demonstrate that Ottoman demographic policy from 1913 to 1918 was genocidal. Indeed, the phrase “crimes against humanity” was coined as a legal term and first used on May 24, 1915, in response to the genocide against Armenians and other Christian civilians."
If people the world over are asking for Turkey to atone for past sins against Armenians a century on, why should Haiti not be asked the same?
I see, Haiti is poor and in a dilapidated state now, but go back two centuries ago and it was anything but a struggling nation. In fact Haiti possessed the most powerful armed forces in the Caribbean. Again, small nations CAN exercise imperialism.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
It's probably worth noting that, whatever else the Haitian's did during their occupation, they ended slavery in the DR. I would not classify that as "holding back" the country's development, although it might be a reason that some in the elite -- who write history -- have vilified the Haitian occupation ever since.
There were some who wanted to reimpose slavery as part of the revolt against the Haitian occupation in 1844, but Duarte, Sanchez, Mella and other leaders wisely did not support such a step, partly because they were not part of the slaveholding elite and partly because many of those in the independence movement were blacks and mulattoes who would not have supported it if it meant they would be enslaved again. The first constitution written specifically banned slavery.
So slavery was ended in the DR at least two generations before it was in the U.S., Cuba or Brazil. Certainly that was a great step forward for the country. It is taken for granted now, but should not be.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
Carpintero
what about the crimes committed against white Dominicans, thousands of babies women and children were killed in an attempt to darken the complexion of the people and after the massacres the Haitians imported American blacks to mix them with the population. AS a result of their invasion all white Dominicans with wealth left the country with all their money, so yeah they caused chaos and slowed progress down.
From: Iceland, Haitians out of DR.
Basta,
Go back to haiti perejil.
From: United States, Brooklyn
Haitian SHOULD apologize to every dominican for their never ending annoyance of our country and people!
From: United States, New York City
"Go back to haiti perejil"
Using the word perejil in the context of these threads just demonstrates a total lack of class and empathy. Grow up elanonimo. And stay "anonimo" until you do...for your parents' sake.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jul 2012 3:28 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: Carpintero, 20 Jul 2012 3:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
It's probably worth noting that, whatever else the Haitian's did during their occupation, they ended slavery in the DR. I would not classify that as "holding back" the country's development, although it might be a reason that some in the elite -- who write history -- have vilified the Haitian occupation ever since."
Whilst it is true that formal Slavery ended with the Haitian invasion and occupation of the Spanish speaking part of the island of Hispaniola, the racial profile and relationship existing BEFORE the invasion was far and away more enlightened by comparison with other areas of colonial life in the Americas. Because the Spanish speaking part had a different economic structure than Haiti, labor and race relationship was of a different order in the Spanish side of the island.
From: United States, New York City
"the invasion was far and away more enlightened by comparison "
Benign woud''ve been a better word..I don't think "enlightened" is a good word to describe any form of slavery.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Jul 2012 3:38 PM
From: United States, NYC
"the racial profile and relationship existing BEFORE the invasion {in the Spanish speaking side of the island} was far and away more enlightened by comparison with other areas of colonial life in the Americas."
Let's keep the quotation within the true meaning of the statement.
Written by: raulm, 20 Jul 2012 3:50 PM
From: United States
What a bunch of hypocritical people. Now it ok for Dominicans to filter and try to change other countries (and you know what country your friends and family send you money from) but when the shoe is other the other foot it becomes a problem. Last time i checked Washington Heights, NY was turned in the D.R. Now more Haitian are coming as i write because the Goverment knows them vago dominican won't work to advance country. Now eat that and ¡ya es más que suficiente quejarse! i mean whining(quejumbroso)
Written by: vacanos, 20 Jul 2012 4:33 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
The majority of the indenpentists were white or mulato like Duarte Sanchez and Mella. Go google TRINITARIO and see for yourself the majority of Los Trinitarios. Dont bring your agenda into our history please, thanks.
Written by: vacanos, 20 Jul 2012 4:33 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Carpintero "There were some who wanted to reimpose slavery as part of the revolt against the Haitian occupation in 1844, but Duarte, Sanchez, Mella and other leaders wisely did not support such a step, partly because they were not part of the slaveholding elite and partly because many of those in the independence movement were blacks and mulattoes who would not have supported it if it meant they would be enslaved again. The first constitution written specifically banned slavery."
Nobody was trying to reimpose slavery ARE YOU KIDDING ME? They were six Haitian invasion from 1844 to 1860. We were trying to survive as a nation with all the invasion coming from Haiti to be thinking about bringing back slavery. One of our independentists Pedro Santana annexed the country to Spain because of frequent Haitian invasion as he saw that the only way to be free of our next door neighbor was to annex the country.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
But of course Spain was a country which permitted slavery in its colonies, such as Cuba.
The War of the Restoration was fought to overthrow Santana's handover of the country to Spain -- and you'll notice that the hero of that second war for independence was General Gregorio Luperon, who was a mulatto.
I know race is an even more taboo subject in the DR than class is in the US, but that doesn't mean they don't play a role in how people act and shape their history.
Written by: vacanos, 20 Jul 2012 5:31 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Carpintero
You stated that Black and mulato were the majority of the independetists inserting your agenda. The majority of independetists used to be white and mulato. Did you know that during the invasion Haiti forbid white people of being landowner and took all their land? They closed ties with the Catholic Church and forbid our language. DO THE MATH.
Written by: BASTA, 20 Jul 2012 6:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all
Carpintero,=== 5*****s
elanonimo,= 5-----s another Dork
Written by: Enteri2, 20 Jul 2012 8:26 PM
From: United States
@raulm - calling it like it is.
Well said.
Written by: chellow, 20 Jul 2012 9:00 PM
From: United States
They killed about 10% of the Dominican population back then, that's about 30 million Americans in today numbers.
Written by: chellow, 20 Jul 2012 9:22 PM
From: United States
Many people here have vilified Spain for its era of slavery more then the French or English. I have noted Spain had slavery, but not in the likes of the English and French speaking countries, count how many majority back Spanish countries out there, not one. You may have said DR but our color comes more from the influx from Haiti.
Written by: danny00, 20 Jul 2012 9:37 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
Dominicans don't want Haitian on their knees begging for forgiveness. We want Haitians to go back to Haiti, or Ayiti, or La Belle Creole, but just go back.........s'il vous plait?
1st u bring them here and how u want them out
make up your mind.
{u is going to cut the sugar cane?}
Written by: danny00, 20 Jul 2012 9:39 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
They killed about 10% of the Dominican population back then, that's about 30 million Americans in today numbers
if they killed abot 100% then new york city would be a much safer city to live in no?
Written by: danny00, 20 Jul 2012 9:43 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
What a bunch of hypocritical people
anf very stupid at the same time.
if not for fraud and drug selling they all would be shoe shine boys and dishwashers
country going no where fast
they are all very excited with the blue mall and the merto
thats.s how stupid they are
lazy low-life's.
From: Iceland, Haitians out of DR.
@Basta, that's all you got. lool
Written by: Edwin514, 21 Jul 2012 2:01 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@chellow
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's a biased comparison, given the drastic difference in population size between the DR and the US. You're comparing 10% of DR's population in those times to 10% of the US's population in today's times.
Written by: generoso, 21 Jul 2012 12:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
SPINACH
I am glad that you can laugh at your own stupidity, dummy. uh, uh.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
Atabey -
I agree that the very different economic and social development in the DR is a significant factor. Haiti had a rigidly enforced system of plantation slavery (as in the US) while the DR did not.
Slavery in the DR was less inhumane and that has helped the DR to create a social system in which race is a less divisive factor. But it's early abolition by the Haitians was also a significant help.
And I understand that many Dominicans seem to need the Haitians to help displace the continued racism in Dominican society.
In a society in which having any white blood makes you "not black," it helps to have the Haitians because they can be the blacks. (You can't be "not black" without having some "blacks" around.)
That's why Dominicans don't call other Dominicans who are very dark "black." Instead they call them "Haitiano." That's why Balaguer (an admitted racist, as was Trujillo)) accused Pena Gomez not of being black -- but of having Haitian parents.
Continued...
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
continued from above...
I don't begrudge the Dominicans using a little hypocrisy or delusion to make their multi-racial society work. It's one of the pleasures of the DR (for a white American) that one is not always reminded of his race and that most regular Dominicans of all races (and mixtures) don't have the sense of alienation and unjust oppression, and associated anger, that so many descendants of plantation slaves do.
The almost universal sense of individual dignity and fraternity among most regular Dominicans that I have observed over many years is one of the things that most attracts me to the DR.
However, it makes me sad to see how the Dominican way of handling race plays out in its treatment of Dominicans of Haitian descent who were born in and have spent all their lives in the DR. It will be a mark of maturity and confidence in their national identity for Dominicans to accept these people. (That is not to say the DR should accept illegal immigration from Haiti.)
Written by: chellow, 21 Jul 2012 1:39 PM
From: United States
>Written by: Edwin 514, 21 Jul 2012 2:01 AM
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's a biased comparison, given the drastic difference in
>population size between the DR and the US. You're comparing 10% of DR's population in those
>times to 10% of the US's population in today's times.
It may be biased, I’m just trying to point the magnitude of 10% of population been killed during the Haitian invasion of DR.
From: Dominican Republic
Just wait a couple of years and give a chance to Martelly and you'll see how the Haitians will go back. Because there will be no need any more to get humilliated for a miserable salary by arrogant and lazy "masters".
From: United States
it is funny how dominican history change. tell me what happen to one of your founder
Written by: airgordo, 22 Jul 2012 7:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: the_haitian, 22 Jul 2012 3:22 PM
From: United States
it is funny how dominican history change. tell me what happen to one of your founder
--
SURE, like the ANIMAL you call a hero, Jean Jacques DESSALINES, that Beast killed Thousands of INNOCENT people just becasuse they were WHITE, that is ALSO racism...he was so nice his own people dispatch him in just two years...the DISGRACE of your country began with that Animal, he did not learn a sh!t from Toussaint...
From: Haiti
ayitians neva free we have to pay french masters.
african slaves in ayiti 500,000 fightin' 45,000 french masters.
yellow feva an' malaria finish french master,
thats why i thank mosquito first then loverture an' no thankin' ignorant blood thirsty dessalines
we kill dessalines in haiti he fake emperor of ignorance and assassin
mosquito is the fatha o' ayiti fake freedom
From: United States, Earth
People like "elanonimo" are exactly why this issue will never die and always be relevant.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Well, that's always been blackmail, Dominican racism, that racism heck is that they are speaking, Haitians in Haiti where there is a problem between blacks and mulattoes, check the Dominican government in full, the only white with blue eyes is Rafael Camilo, and some other, a tiny part, the rest is mulatto and black, starting with the president.
It is true that immigration is Dominican, but must comply with the rules of each country, must obtain visas, Haitians believe they have the right to decide for the Dominicans, were fortunately defeated in 6 invasions to the Dominican Republic, now changed the tactics and the invasion is peaceful. Should apply without distinction has current migration law and not according to this it must be returned to their country. as does the U.S., Spain, France, the friends of Haiti. That should be more sympathetic to what they left Haiti.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Dear Spinach, clear that this was best for the Haitian emperor, the problem is that the Dominicans of that time and now we did not like, and is true this peaceful invasion, there are over one million Haitians, most illegal, you speak from Canada, that country is an area that speaks French like you, we wonder: Because instead of looking for solution to the problems of Haiti in the rep. Dominican Republic, where we do not understand the talk, do not give away a portion of its vast territory almost uninhabited?.
We are like well you say a poor country, so many Dominicans emigrate, so we have meager resources should be distributed among the Dominicans, as we have helped you more to Haiti in their misfortune, they were received as brothers and neighbors in distress , what bothers me is how so bitter that relate to the Dominican induced by the NGOs that have long oppressed are to be truly responsible for removing governments.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Dear Espinaca, claro que eso era mejor para el emperador Haitiano, el problema es que a los dominicanos de esa epoca y los de ahora no nos gustaba, y si es cierta esa invasion pacifica, hay mas un millon de Haitianos, la mayoria ilegales, veo que habla desde Canada, ese pais hay una zona que habla como ustedes Frances, nos preguntamos ¿Porque en vez de estarle buscando solucion a los problemas de Haiti en la rep. Dominicana, donde no los entendemos al hablar, no les regala una porcion de su vasto territorio casi deshabitado?.
Somos como bien usted dice un pais pobre, por eso emigran muchos dominicanos, por eso los recursos exiguos que poseemos deben ser distribuidos entre los dominicanos, hemos ayudado como el que mas a Haiti en su desgracia, se les recibio como hermanos y vecinos en desgracia, lo que me molesta es la forma tan agria que se refieren a los dominicanos inducidos por ONGS de los que los han oprimido siempre y son los verdaderos responsables por estar quitando gobierno
Written by: chellow, 23 Jul 2012 9:32 PM
From: United States
It sounds like War.
Written by: airgordo, 23 Jul 2012 9:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: KISKEYAMAMA
From: Haiti
ayitians neva free we have to pay french masters.
african slaves in ayiti 500,000 fightin' 45,000 french masters.
yellow feva an' malaria finish french master,
thats why i thank mosquito first then loverture an' no thankin' ignorant blood thirsty dessalines
we kill dessalines in haiti he fake emperor of ignorance and assassin
mosquito is the fatha o' ayiti fake freedom
---
For ONCE we agree, as i said should somebody with a BRAIN, with IDEAS like Toussaint have been in command of the Army when you beat France, the MASS Killings of white INNOCENT people that infuriated and then caused REVENGE on ALL THE POWERS of the world to BLOCK YOU probably would have never happened! then you could have negotiated your way in to COMMERCE with them, so they would have not thought all Haitians were savages.
DESSALINES NEVER loved Haiti, he did all that for REVENGE and was not smart enough to realize when to put the his NATION higher than his own feeli
Written by: airgordo, 23 Jul 2012 9:59 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: SPiNACH, 22 Jul 2012 11:54 PM
From: Canada
@airgordo
How
Dare
You calling
Our Nation s
Father an animal , if you dare say that word in front of Haitians , in a b0dybag , you for sure will return
You
F......
A55wipe
Svck
Yu
Muma ' s veggie h0le
---
Well I have said not just a word, HUNDREDS of words!! and the funny thing is that MANY HAITIANS actually fully agree with me, because i speak the truth, the Father or your Nation Should be Toussaint, a MAN WITH A BRAIN, he DIED freezing his @ss on France to see you free!! he did not called himself an EMPEROR!! he did not force his people in to labor almost slavery!!.
Do you even know What Dessalines did to your own people after the french were gone?? READ please!! i should not be teaching a Haitian a history lesson from his own country, ASK your people of what i'm writing and you will find many that actually agree.
Written by: airgordo, 23 Jul 2012 10:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Dessalines Caused me to be Free?? He caused SH!T!!, did you forget who's @ss the Dominicans had to kick for 12 years to BE FREE?? TWELVE YEARS, did you forget that?? so don't come to me writing all that stuff about freedom, you can sell that to all the other countries BUT Dominican Republic, WE were the ones Being Raped, Sold, Squeezed for 22 LONG YEARS to pay up YOUR FREEDOM to France, WE F@CKING BAILED YOU OUT for 22 years, Plus 12 more after...READ and LEARN.
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
airgordo,
don's waste your time arguing with this dude, he is another Cantave...
From: United States
@ airgordo plzzzz explain to me how you pay for my freedom. what you and your people did to help us gain our freedom
Written by: airgordo, 24 Jul 2012 9:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: the_haitian, 24 Jul 2012 12:30 PM
From: United States
@ airgordo plzzzz explain to me how you pay for my freedom. what you and your people did to help us gain our freedom
---
Another History Lesson??..i will add a LOGIC lesson as well....
YOU had to PAY France for something like 100 years, didn't YOU? YOU could have refused to pay BUT WHAT would have happened if you did not pay? so YOU DID NOT REFUSE... BETWEEN 1822 and 1844, that's 22 years, FROM WHERE do you think your goverment was SOURCING a BIG chunk of the MONEY to PAY?? YES!!! DOMINICAN LANDS, BACKS and SWEAT!!.... THAT was one of the Main reasons for having YOUR people INVADING and RULLING to their convinience the DR, on the first place!, they had to search for RESOURCES and acted as an EMPIRE just like ROME!, funny that many of your leadres were actually CROWNED as EMPERORS!! NICE mentality!! ...
Is this easy and fair to understand? the DR has the MORAL RIGHT to ask for reparations too...
From: United States
@ airgordo you cant make up history . i dont think its me who need a history lesson but more like you. if we were taking ressources from dr to give to the french why would it take us so long. and why dont you ask the french to give you that money back. second why dont you do some research and find out why we decide to pay the french
Written by: airgordo, 25 Jul 2012 6:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Now I am making up history?
1- IF what i just wrote is False, then it should be very easy to determine that for 22 years the HAITIAN INVADING authorities DID NOT TAX neither CONFISCATED Property, Values, that they DID NOT have profits which were later used to PAY FRANCE.
2- It was NOT FRANCE that INVADED and FORCEFULLY OCCUPIED the Domincan Republic for 22 years, IT WAS THE HAITIAN IMPERIAL STATE, Am i still making up stuff? why do i have to ask France for money THEY NEVER TOOK from my country according to you?
3- As i said, IF France was not a Danger to your FREEDOM you could have NOT PAID a Franc! BUT YOU DID and continued to do so until on 1947, is this something i also made up? the DR didn't care what you negotiated with France AFTER 1844, when we stopped being your piggy bank by paying LOTs of Dominican BLOOD to your army, that's why it took 12 more years for your people to realize that the PIGGY BANK was NO MORE.
Written by: airgordo, 27 Jul 2012 1:31 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Good! i wish the same for haiti so the mass of illegals can return to their homes and make their country even better!
From: Dominican Republic
You should not wish all the Haitians away. Who will do the work then? Because everywhere you see someone working, he's undoubtedly Haitian.
Written by: airgordo, 28 Jul 2012 1:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Who? The same people that worked before! Or you really think that this massive haitian migration has always been like that?
From: Dominican Republic
I'm only provoking, airgordo.
The truth is simple: The illegal Haitians are here, because the Dominicans let them pass for good bakshish. Control the border with honest police and military forces and there will be no illegal immigration any more.
And what really angers me is any kind of racism.
Written by: airgordo, 29 Jul 2012 4:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: calvoleon, 28 Jul 2012 2:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I'm only provoking, airgordo.
The truth is simple: The illegal Haitians are here, because the Dominicans let them pass for good bakshish. Control the border with honest police and military forces and there will be no illegal immigration any more.
And what really angers me is any kind of racism.
----
I don't dispute that...Racism or any other kind of discrimination as i prefer to call it, it is always amplified when you get mass immigration of people
From: Dominican Republic
But racism always is wrong anyhow. Because what makes one better than the other? It's pure coincidence that one is born in DR, the other in Haiti, the other in USA or Europe. Without any effort of oneself. So what is the merit to be Dominican? Or Haitian?
A Dominican racist is the same dumb a..hole like an American who hates Mexicans, a Russian who hates Chechens, a German who hates Turks, a Spaniard who hates Dominicans or a French who hates Moroccans.
Racism is dumb and stupid - no matter of which national.
From: Haiti
calvoleon.
imma proud ayitian woman,an' i ask you why an ayitian call another ayitian "kakadyab"?
From: Haiti
an ayitian who hate whites,dominicans,mulattos....yo' needed to add that too.
From: Dominican Republic
I don't know what means kakadyab and I'm nort sure if I really want to know it.
I only know that anyone who hates another for his color, religion, race or nationality is an idiot.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
Exactly, I agree with Calvoleon.
And I'd add those who hate others because of what their ancestors did to each other generations ago are also idiots.
From: Dominican Republic
I agree, Carpintero
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
It seems hypothetical, but is quickly becoming a reality ...
And to think this entertaining Dominican youth with facebook, twitter, virtual farm, etc And politicians . these and think about it.
The truth is that while we entertain ourselves in a comfortable silence .... Our future is obscured in our faces!!
Cholera Article Binational State
By Ruben Presbot
-There has been a year that Haiti was devastated by an earthquake, and without and is attacked by an epidemic of cholera,It is inevitable that every misfortune Haitian Dominicans directly affected, being two nations two Siamese, though united in the back due to historical reasons and origin. Haitians should accept responsibility for the failure of republican life, it created a nation of emotional nonsense and underpinned by racial, religious hatred and all that was white. To the extent that its original constitution, prohibiting the right to property and citizenship to whites and foreigners, although they were born in the countr
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Counting and with 1, 500,000 Haitians in their territory and a flow that spread like wildfire and uncontrolled, Dominicans can, if wanted with a simple exercise in arithmetic, to know when will be a minority in their own territory. As neighbors, driven by poverty, will continue in unrepentant eastward shift, with a gap existential baggage, including its capacity for multiplication, addition and epidemic diseases.
Already many of these immigrants have documentation although most false and may even decide in elections for the convenience of the political corruption that used to climb, and a large number of Dominicans of Haitian descent (legal or illegal) in posts in the Armed Army and National Police will soon be in other positions of decision, in addition to over 60% of construction workers and 80% of agricultural workers are Haitian.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
In a kind of myopia and irrationality, dismantled the economic structure of major productions to establish the system of small producers, ruining any chance of development. This scheme disregards the pillars of development, which is the capital and knowledge, elements that were in the hands of whites.
Although we have been about twenty attacks, massacres and invasions of Haitians to the Dominican Republic, through history, are those neighbors who have helped over Haiti, including paying its territory as a safety valve.
To not go very far, since the earthquake of this year have crossed the border illegally some 200,000 Haitians. It can not be otherwise, because it is a desperate emigration from a nation with 70% unemployment and 90% illiteracy, destroyed forests and desertified land eroded, rivers dry, hungry, without health care and institutional anarchy and ungovernability. And while Dominicans do not leave the sub-development, its economy is 60 times stronger than Haiti.
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The prevailing anarchy in Haiti continue to increase, making emigration gravity eastward, and clothing throughout the island, laintegracion. In a short time will have their own political parties, without the differences of languages ??and lifestyles to avoid, as they have not done with their radio, religious and other media, the more fortunate sister country bear the misfortune of needed, although it pays the cost of neutralizing their own development.
The Dominicans, do not be alarmed by a simple epidemic of cholera, THE WORST IS YET TO COME. The next will be the bi-national state and later will be a minority in their own territory.
Know that in a binational state, two cultures coexist and sociologically majority prevails, that will eventually be Haiti and that their identity and national definition is: blackness, Creole voodoo and DISCRIMINATION at all "clear" or even white.
Dominicans who understand that this is the manifest destiny.
From: Dominican Republic
Oh my God! There is nothing more to say. You chose the correct name: Tonto Dominicano!
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Spinach and calvoleon
Believe that development and change in Haiti is what we want most Dominicans, who are those who have helped make real and effective to neighbors in distress, and best of all, we're more than willing to contribute. is sad that someone has to leave his country, because wherever you go be a stranger, we understand that the best place for any human being is to live in your country, I say by Dominicans living in the U.S., his dream is to return to their land. I see nothing offensive or derogatory in that purpose, the complaint is that the Dominicans continue to attack, but forget those who have these conditions are not FRIENDS OF HAITI and you know better than anyone. Military occupation and yet still the drug and arms trafficking, perhaps benefiting from the chaos. Understand the message when we see Haitians decide their future without foreign interference, that should be your goal and recognizing friends.
From: United States, New York City
Spinach enlighten us. What is the true illiteracy rate in Haiti? The true unemployment rate? And please provide documentation of some type.
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Turkey’s Human Rights Hypocrisy
Turkey must atone for its own past crimes before lecturing others on human rights.
"Using documents from the Ottoman government archives in Istanbul, which were once classified as top secret, I have sought to pull back the veil on Turkey’s century of denial. These documents clearly demonstrate that Ottoman demographic policy from 1913 to 1918 was genocidal. Indeed, the phrase “crimes against humanity” was coined as a legal term and first used on May 24, 1915, in response to the genocide against Armenians and other Christian civilians."
If people the world over are asking for Turkey to atone for past sins against Armenians a century on, why should Haiti not be asked the same?
I see, Haiti is poor and in a dilapidated state now, but go back two centuries ago and it was anything but a struggling nation. In fact Haiti possessed the most powerful armed forces in the Caribbean. Again, small nations CAN exercise imperialism.
There were some who wanted to reimpose slavery as part of the revolt against the Haitian occupation in 1844, but Duarte, Sanchez, Mella and other leaders wisely did not support such a step, partly because they were not part of the slaveholding elite and partly because many of those in the independence movement were blacks and mulattoes who would not have supported it if it meant they would be enslaved again. The first constitution written specifically banned slavery.
So slavery was ended in the DR at least two generations before it was in the U.S., Cuba or Brazil. Certainly that was a great step forward for the country. It is taken for granted now, but should not be.
what about the crimes committed against white Dominicans, thousands of babies women and children were killed in an attempt to darken the complexion of the people and after the massacres the Haitians imported American blacks to mix them with the population. AS a result of their invasion all white Dominicans with wealth left the country with all their money, so yeah they caused chaos and slowed progress down.
Go back to haiti perejil.
Using the word perejil in the context of these threads just demonstrates a total lack of class and empathy. Grow up elanonimo. And stay "anonimo" until you do...for your parents' sake.
From: Dominican Republic, Dominican Republic
It's probably worth noting that, whatever else the Haitian's did during their occupation, they ended slavery in the DR. I would not classify that as "holding back" the country's development, although it might be a reason that some in the elite -- who write history -- have vilified the Haitian occupation ever since."
Whilst it is true that formal Slavery ended with the Haitian invasion and occupation of the Spanish speaking part of the island of Hispaniola, the racial profile and relationship existing BEFORE the invasion was far and away more enlightened by comparison with other areas of colonial life in the Americas. Because the Spanish speaking part had a different economic structure than Haiti, labor and race relationship was of a different order in the Spanish side of the island.
Benign woud''ve been a better word..I don't think "enlightened" is a good word to describe any form of slavery.
"the racial profile and relationship existing BEFORE the invasion {in the Spanish speaking side of the island} was far and away more enlightened by comparison with other areas of colonial life in the Americas."
Let's keep the quotation within the true meaning of the statement.
The majority of the indenpentists were white or mulato like Duarte Sanchez and Mella. Go google TRINITARIO and see for yourself the majority of Los Trinitarios. Dont bring your agenda into our history please, thanks.
Carpintero "There were some who wanted to reimpose slavery as part of the revolt against the Haitian occupation in 1844, but Duarte, Sanchez, Mella and other leaders wisely did not support such a step, partly because they were not part of the slaveholding elite and partly because many of those in the independence movement were blacks and mulattoes who would not have supported it if it meant they would be enslaved again. The first constitution written specifically banned slavery."
Nobody was trying to reimpose slavery ARE YOU KIDDING ME? They were six Haitian invasion from 1844 to 1860. We were trying to survive as a nation with all the invasion coming from Haiti to be thinking about bringing back slavery. One of our independentists Pedro Santana annexed the country to Spain because of frequent Haitian invasion as he saw that the only way to be free of our next door neighbor was to annex the country.
The War of the Restoration was fought to overthrow Santana's handover of the country to Spain -- and you'll notice that the hero of that second war for independence was General Gregorio Luperon, who was a mulatto.
I know race is an even more taboo subject in the DR than class is in the US, but that doesn't mean they don't play a role in how people act and shape their history.
You stated that Black and mulato were the majority of the independetists inserting your agenda. The majority of independetists used to be white and mulato. Did you know that during the invasion Haiti forbid white people of being landowner and took all their land? They closed ties with the Catholic Church and forbid our language. DO THE MATH.
elanonimo,= 5-----s another Dork
Well said.
1st u bring them here and how u want them out
make up your mind.
{u is going to cut the sugar cane?}
if they killed abot 100% then new york city would be a much safer city to live in no?
anf very stupid at the same time.
if not for fraud and drug selling they all would be shoe shine boys and dishwashers
country going no where fast
they are all very excited with the blue mall and the merto
thats.s how stupid they are
lazy low-life's.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's a biased comparison, given the drastic difference in population size between the DR and the US. You're comparing 10% of DR's population in those times to 10% of the US's population in today's times.
I am glad that you can laugh at your own stupidity, dummy. uh, uh.
I agree that the very different economic and social development in the DR is a significant factor. Haiti had a rigidly enforced system of plantation slavery (as in the US) while the DR did not.
Slavery in the DR was less inhumane and that has helped the DR to create a social system in which race is a less divisive factor. But it's early abolition by the Haitians was also a significant help.
And I understand that many Dominicans seem to need the Haitians to help displace the continued racism in Dominican society.
In a society in which having any white blood makes you "not black," it helps to have the Haitians because they can be the blacks. (You can't be "not black" without having some "blacks" around.)
That's why Dominicans don't call other Dominicans who are very dark "black." Instead they call them "Haitiano." That's why Balaguer (an admitted racist, as was Trujillo)) accused Pena Gomez not of being black -- but of having Haitian parents.
Continued...
I don't begrudge the Dominicans using a little hypocrisy or delusion to make their multi-racial society work. It's one of the pleasures of the DR (for a white American) that one is not always reminded of his race and that most regular Dominicans of all races (and mixtures) don't have the sense of alienation and unjust oppression, and associated anger, that so many descendants of plantation slaves do.
The almost universal sense of individual dignity and fraternity among most regular Dominicans that I have observed over many years is one of the things that most attracts me to the DR.
However, it makes me sad to see how the Dominican way of handling race plays out in its treatment of Dominicans of Haitian descent who were born in and have spent all their lives in the DR. It will be a mark of maturity and confidence in their national identity for Dominicans to accept these people. (That is not to say the DR should accept illegal immigration from Haiti.)
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's a biased comparison, given the drastic difference in
>population size between the DR and the US. You're comparing 10% of DR's population in those
>times to 10% of the US's population in today's times.
It may be biased, I’m just trying to point the magnitude of 10% of population been killed during the Haitian invasion of DR.
From: United States
it is funny how dominican history change. tell me what happen to one of your founder
--
SURE, like the ANIMAL you call a hero, Jean Jacques DESSALINES, that Beast killed Thousands of INNOCENT people just becasuse they were WHITE, that is ALSO racism...he was so nice his own people dispatch him in just two years...the DISGRACE of your country began with that Animal, he did not learn a sh!t from Toussaint...
african slaves in ayiti 500,000 fightin' 45,000 french masters.
yellow feva an' malaria finish french master,
thats why i thank mosquito first then loverture an' no thankin' ignorant blood thirsty dessalines
we kill dessalines in haiti he fake emperor of ignorance and assassin
mosquito is the fatha o' ayiti fake freedom
It is true that immigration is Dominican, but must comply with the rules of each country, must obtain visas, Haitians believe they have the right to decide for the Dominicans, were fortunately defeated in 6 invasions to the Dominican Republic, now changed the tactics and the invasion is peaceful. Should apply without distinction has current migration law and not according to this it must be returned to their country. as does the U.S., Spain, France, the friends of Haiti. That should be more sympathetic to what they left Haiti.
We are like well you say a poor country, so many Dominicans emigrate, so we have meager resources should be distributed among the Dominicans, as we have helped you more to Haiti in their misfortune, they were received as brothers and neighbors in distress , what bothers me is how so bitter that relate to the Dominican induced by the NGOs that have long oppressed are to be truly responsible for removing governments.
Somos como bien usted dice un pais pobre, por eso emigran muchos dominicanos, por eso los recursos exiguos que poseemos deben ser distribuidos entre los dominicanos, hemos ayudado como el que mas a Haiti en su desgracia, se les recibio como hermanos y vecinos en desgracia, lo que me molesta es la forma tan agria que se refieren a los dominicanos inducidos por ONGS de los que los han oprimido siempre y son los verdaderos responsables por estar quitando gobierno
From: Haiti
ayitians neva free we have to pay french masters.
african slaves in ayiti 500,000 fightin' 45,000 french masters.
yellow feva an' malaria finish french master,
thats why i thank mosquito first then loverture an' no thankin' ignorant blood thirsty dessalines
we kill dessalines in haiti he fake emperor of ignorance and assassin
mosquito is the fatha o' ayiti fake freedom
---
For ONCE we agree, as i said should somebody with a BRAIN, with IDEAS like Toussaint have been in command of the Army when you beat France, the MASS Killings of white INNOCENT people that infuriated and then caused REVENGE on ALL THE POWERS of the world to BLOCK YOU probably would have never happened! then you could have negotiated your way in to COMMERCE with them, so they would have not thought all Haitians were savages.
DESSALINES NEVER loved Haiti, he did all that for REVENGE and was not smart enough to realize when to put the his NATION higher than his own feeli
From: Canada
@airgordo
How
Dare
You calling
Our Nation s
Father an animal , if you dare say that word in front of Haitians , in a b0dybag , you for sure will return
You
F......
A55wipe
Svck
Yu
Muma ' s veggie h0le
---
Well I have said not just a word, HUNDREDS of words!! and the funny thing is that MANY HAITIANS actually fully agree with me, because i speak the truth, the Father or your Nation Should be Toussaint, a MAN WITH A BRAIN, he DIED freezing his @ss on France to see you free!! he did not called himself an EMPEROR!! he did not force his people in to labor almost slavery!!.
Do you even know What Dessalines did to your own people after the french were gone?? READ please!! i should not be teaching a Haitian a history lesson from his own country, ASK your people of what i'm writing and you will find many that actually agree.
don's waste your time arguing with this dude, he is another Cantave...
From: United States
@ airgordo plzzzz explain to me how you pay for my freedom. what you and your people did to help us gain our freedom
---
Another History Lesson??..i will add a LOGIC lesson as well....
YOU had to PAY France for something like 100 years, didn't YOU? YOU could have refused to pay BUT WHAT would have happened if you did not pay? so YOU DID NOT REFUSE... BETWEEN 1822 and 1844, that's 22 years, FROM WHERE do you think your goverment was SOURCING a BIG chunk of the MONEY to PAY?? YES!!! DOMINICAN LANDS, BACKS and SWEAT!!.... THAT was one of the Main reasons for having YOUR people INVADING and RULLING to their convinience the DR, on the first place!, they had to search for RESOURCES and acted as an EMPIRE just like ROME!, funny that many of your leadres were actually CROWNED as EMPERORS!! NICE mentality!! ...
Is this easy and fair to understand? the DR has the MORAL RIGHT to ask for reparations too...
1- IF what i just wrote is False, then it should be very easy to determine that for 22 years the HAITIAN INVADING authorities DID NOT TAX neither CONFISCATED Property, Values, that they DID NOT have profits which were later used to PAY FRANCE.
2- It was NOT FRANCE that INVADED and FORCEFULLY OCCUPIED the Domincan Republic for 22 years, IT WAS THE HAITIAN IMPERIAL STATE, Am i still making up stuff? why do i have to ask France for money THEY NEVER TOOK from my country according to you?
3- As i said, IF France was not a Danger to your FREEDOM you could have NOT PAID a Franc! BUT YOU DID and continued to do so until on 1947, is this something i also made up? the DR didn't care what you negotiated with France AFTER 1844, when we stopped being your piggy bank by paying LOTs of Dominican BLOOD to your army, that's why it took 12 more years for your people to realize that the PIGGY BANK was NO MORE.
The truth is simple: The illegal Haitians are here, because the Dominicans let them pass for good bakshish. Control the border with honest police and military forces and there will be no illegal immigration any more.
And what really angers me is any kind of racism.
From: Dominican Republic
I'm only provoking, airgordo.
The truth is simple: The illegal Haitians are here, because the Dominicans let them pass for good bakshish. Control the border with honest police and military forces and there will be no illegal immigration any more.
And what really angers me is any kind of racism.
----
I don't dispute that...Racism or any other kind of discrimination as i prefer to call it, it is always amplified when you get mass immigration of people
A Dominican racist is the same dumb a..hole like an American who hates Mexicans, a Russian who hates Chechens, a German who hates Turks, a Spaniard who hates Dominicans or a French who hates Moroccans.
Racism is dumb and stupid - no matter of which national.
imma proud ayitian woman,an' i ask you why an ayitian call another ayitian "kakadyab"?
I only know that anyone who hates another for his color, religion, race or nationality is an idiot.
And I'd add those who hate others because of what their ancestors did to each other generations ago are also idiots.
And to think this entertaining Dominican youth with facebook, twitter, virtual farm, etc And politicians . these and think about it.
The truth is that while we entertain ourselves in a comfortable silence .... Our future is obscured in our faces!!
Cholera Article Binational State
By Ruben Presbot
-There has been a year that Haiti was devastated by an earthquake, and without and is attacked by an epidemic of cholera,It is inevitable that every misfortune Haitian Dominicans directly affected, being two nations two Siamese, though united in the back due to historical reasons and origin. Haitians should accept responsibility for the failure of republican life, it created a nation of emotional nonsense and underpinned by racial, religious hatred and all that was white. To the extent that its original constitution, prohibiting the right to property and citizenship to whites and foreigners, although they were born in the countr
Counting and with 1, 500,000 Haitians in their territory and a flow that spread like wildfire and uncontrolled, Dominicans can, if wanted with a simple exercise in arithmetic, to know when will be a minority in their own territory. As neighbors, driven by poverty, will continue in unrepentant eastward shift, with a gap existential baggage, including its capacity for multiplication, addition and epidemic diseases.
Already many of these immigrants have documentation although most false and may even decide in elections for the convenience of the political corruption that used to climb, and a large number of Dominicans of Haitian descent (legal or illegal) in posts in the Armed Army and National Police will soon be in other positions of decision, in addition to over 60% of construction workers and 80% of agricultural workers are Haitian.
In a kind of myopia and irrationality, dismantled the economic structure of major productions to establish the system of small producers, ruining any chance of development. This scheme disregards the pillars of development, which is the capital and knowledge, elements that were in the hands of whites.
Although we have been about twenty attacks, massacres and invasions of Haitians to the Dominican Republic, through history, are those neighbors who have helped over Haiti, including paying its territory as a safety valve.
To not go very far, since the earthquake of this year have crossed the border illegally some 200,000 Haitians. It can not be otherwise, because it is a desperate emigration from a nation with 70% unemployment and 90% illiteracy, destroyed forests and desertified land eroded, rivers dry, hungry, without health care and institutional anarchy and ungovernability. And while Dominicans do not leave the sub-development, its economy is 60 times stronger than Haiti.
The prevailing anarchy in Haiti continue to increase, making emigration gravity eastward, and clothing throughout the island, laintegracion. In a short time will have their own political parties, without the differences of languages ??and lifestyles to avoid, as they have not done with their radio, religious and other media, the more fortunate sister country bear the misfortune of needed, although it pays the cost of neutralizing their own development.
The Dominicans, do not be alarmed by a simple epidemic of cholera, THE WORST IS YET TO COME. The next will be the bi-national state and later will be a minority in their own territory.
Know that in a binational state, two cultures coexist and sociologically majority prevails, that will eventually be Haiti and that their identity and national definition is: blackness, Creole voodoo and DISCRIMINATION at all "clear" or even white.
Dominicans who understand that this is the manifest destiny.
Spinach and calvoleon
Believe that development and change in Haiti is what we want most Dominicans, who are those who have helped make real and effective to neighbors in distress, and best of all, we're more than willing to contribute. is sad that someone has to leave his country, because wherever you go be a stranger, we understand that the best place for any human being is to live in your country, I say by Dominicans living in the U.S., his dream is to return to their land. I see nothing offensive or derogatory in that purpose, the complaint is that the Dominicans continue to attack, but forget those who have these conditions are not FRIENDS OF HAITI and you know better than anyone. Military occupation and yet still the drug and arms trafficking, perhaps benefiting from the chaos. Understand the message when we see Haitians decide their future without foreign interference, that should be your goal and recognizing friends.