Santo Domingo.- The deputy Ramon Antonio Fernandez was handed over to the National District Prosecutor’s Office Thursday night prior to being sent to prison to serve a one year sentence for statutory rape, becoming the first sitting lawmaker to be jailed in recent history.
The deputy, who would also be the second legislator to ever be stripped of his parliamentary immunity in the past seven years, spent the night in a cell at the Ciudad Nueva Courthouse.
Fernandez will face Sentencing judge Saul Diaz today, who’ll set the conditions for his transfer to Najayo prison, in San Cristobal
The Supreme Court had upheld a lower court sentence of one year in jail with six months suspension against the opposition party PRD deputy for Santiago Rodriguez province.
Stripped immunity
Fernandez was stripped of his immunity during Thursday’s session, where PRD Chamber spokesman Ruddy Gonzalez defended his colleague and asked that the case be postponed until next Tuesday.
Before Fernandez, La Vega deputy Radhames Ramos (El Chino) had also been stripped of immunity after being found guilty of people trafficking while holding the post of Consul in the Haiti town of Ouanaminthe nine years ago.
From: Cuba, La Havana, Que Viva La Revolucion
Sorry but I can"t hold it in.....
Photo Caption.... Her ass was this big....
LMAO
Now it's your turn sucker. I hope some big Haitian has a little something for you in jail.
Written by: zooma, 7 Sep 2012 7:45 AM
From: United States
He is the first. The door is closed on him and the door is now open to bring other dubious lawmakers before the mast.
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
Keep 'em there, and make sure he gets to know the GP.
Written by: josean, 7 Sep 2012 8:24 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Lie-onel and Felix Bautista have RAPED the country's treasury, are they going to go to jail also?
From: United States
You people are pathetic. Any other civilized country would have given him 10 year. And he'll be 're-elected' when he gets out, you all should be embarrassed.
This is how it should be done. And this was just for 'conspiring'.
"A Florida detective was sentenced to 12 years in prison for conspiring to steal marijuana from drug runners and divvying up the profits between his friends."
Written by: LuisMiAM, 7 Sep 2012 11:16 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Since when did the DR accept American Style justice? America is full of Fascist bigots that talk big about other countries failings and about freedom but fall way short themselves. Why don't we talk about the Kennedy kid that raped a girl in Florida and got off Scott free? How about the Louisiana legislator that stashed thousands of dollar in his frig, then had the gall to run again?? Rape is a terrible thing, but rape is an act of violence, the DR has long accepted the individual (The victim) chooses if violence was done to them, not the state. Statutory rape is an act of state control over society, it says the state knows better than the constituency - that has never been a Dominican view, it's an American view.
Written by: Pedrin, 7 Sep 2012 11:39 AM
From: United States
Parliamentary immunity = carte blanche to steal
From: Dominican Republic
@LuisMiAM your ignorance of the world as a whole is advertised freely by your ignorant comment. Anther product of Dominican education.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 7 Sep 2012 12:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic
bemwaballs: Thanks for your illustrative insight , by the way you spelled "Anther" wrong it's "Another" as in "Feel free to take another spelling course..."
Written by: BASTA, 7 Sep 2012 1:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all
josean==4++++s
Written by: Danilo, 7 Sep 2012 1:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, www.DuckyDeals.com
Don't forget that 20 years ago this would have been just another couple living together. It is similar to my grandma and grandpa, rich older man offering a poor young 14 year old a better life. So any jail time for this is a good start, I would prefer if it were 5 years. As this act disgusts us more it'll slowly go up to a 10 year sentence.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 7 Sep 2012 1:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@Danilo I personally agree with you it's disgusting, but who are you and who am I to tell a woman what she can do with her body? It is her choice, not yours, not mine, once we go down that road then we might as well go all the way. Lets restrict business men from working on Sunday, lets jail anyone who disagrees with anything I say, or what I find offensive. Human rights groups have placed America in the top 50 countries with Human Rights abuses, including capital punishment (The Death Penalty). I believe our system - that lets the victim dictate when a crime is committed - is a truly fair and just system, else we may end up being dictated to by celebrities such as Oprah, who helped pass Megan's Law in the US, or Dr Phil! If ANYONE has ever done you wrong then please take them to court and have your justice, it is your rtight as a citizen, but under no circumstances should the state decide who, or when you were wronged, that is your obligation as a citizen.
Written by: Danilo, 7 Sep 2012 4:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic, www.DuckyDeals.com
I think this girl is just too young to decide what she wants to do with her body. It seems perfect at the time when you're living in misery but later on she'll feel like she was forced into it by her living condition.
Her parents want a better life and opportunities for her, so they would give their consent right away. This is were the law would protect her, giving her time to grow up and then make her own decisions.
This is what happened to my grandma, it was pretty much an arranged marriage in which she didn't have any say in it. Her parents were more than glad to consent to this because of their living condition. Now she feels like she never got a chance to steer her own life for the 60 years they were married.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 7 Sep 2012 4:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I respect what you are saying but your grandma was married 60 years! NO woman stays with a man that long if she didn't want too! In America the average marriage doesn't last 5 years, and the women are rearly any happier. In the DR, in most cases the women are asked if this is what they want. They have a choice. If asked in MOST cases at the time the girls would have consented. Unfortunately life happens people change and what seems right today may seem wrong tomorrow, I understand your grandma has regrets, everyone dose, it dosen't mean she didn't make the right choice, it just means she's human. Don't mistake regret for mistake.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 7 Sep 2012 4:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic
My dad married a 15 year old she loved him at the time, but he was 55 years old. They had three children together and stayed together for nearly 30 years. She, my step mother after nearly 20 years felt regret, she began dating another man, very typical, so why didn't she get a divorce? or leave my dad? As an adult there was nothing keeping her, other than that, I think, deep down she still loved the man she married. That is regret, it dosen't mean she was wrong.
Written by: danny00, 7 Sep 2012 9:43 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
You people are pathetic. Any other civilized country would have given him 10 year. And he'll be 're-elected' when he gets out, you all should be embarrassed
THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS ONE JOKE, BUT NOT MANY ARE LAUGHING.
ITS RAPE WHEN U TAKE A YOUNG GIRL NO MATTER WHAT THE SO-CALLED PARENTS SAY ABOUT IT.
IN FLORIDA AND OTHER STATES ITS A LIFE SENTENCE, THIS LOW-LIFE WHO CANT GET A REAL WOMEN GOES AFTER BABIES FOR THIS SEX {GUESS HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO MAKE LOVE TO A REAL LADY.
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS WE HAVE THE CHOO CHOO TRAIN. AND THE BLUE MALL.
ALL ABOARD.
Written by: danny00, 7 Sep 2012 9:46 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
think this girl is just too young to decide what she wants to do with her body. It seems perfect at the time when you're living in misery but later on she'll feel like she was forced into it by her living condition
YES SHE IS YOUNG, BUT I GUESS THIS LOW-LIFE JUST HAD TO HELP HER MAKE UP HER MINE
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS WE HAVE NO EDUCATION FOR THE YOUNG BUT WE HAVE A CHOO CHOO TRAIN FOR ALL THE UNEDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE DR TO RIDE AROUND IN AND GO TO THE BLUE MALL TO WINDOW SHOP.
ALL ABOARD..
Written by: danny00, 7 Sep 2012 9:49 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
I respect what you are saying but your grandma was married 60 years! NO woman stays with a man that long if she didn't want too! In America the average marriage doesn't last 5 years, and the women are rearly any happier. In the DR,
LOVE ? WHAT THE F.... DOES A 12-15Y OLD KNOW ABOUT LOVE?
THINK ITS MORE THAT THEY ARE DUMB AND DONT KNOW ANY BETTER.
CHOO CHOO TRAIN.
LOVE THAT I SAY.
LOL
LAND OF FOOLS AND UNEDUCATED PEOPLE.
Written by: Danilo, 7 Sep 2012 10:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, www.DuckyDeals.com
Photo caption: Dios mio, me van a meter uno de este tamaño!
From: Cuba, La Havana, Que Viva La Revolucion
@ Danilo
Good one *****s
Written by: LuisMiAM, 9 Sep 2012 6:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@danny00 she knew enough to stay married 60 years that has to mean something, who are we to judge? fo the 3 million years man has been on this earth, no one questioned if a 14 year old could marry, It's written into the Bible for god's sake! Mary was around 14 when she got knocked up by the holy spirit, and by the way she didn't want the kid at first! Joseph was a much older man. but some how we here know better, Just like America to think it's smarted than God.
From: Dominican Republic
@ by: LuisMiAM,your compete and utter display of religion just shows why your country belongs in the 17th century. incredible how the latinos, who are africans, still bow to the spanish crown. who the.... are you
Written by: Pepe32, 9 Sep 2012 9:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"You people are pathetic. Any other civilized country would have given him 10 year. And he'll be 're-elected' when he gets out, you all should be embarrassed."
Like crack head Marion Berry being re-elected in DC and Nagin in New Orleans not to mention Ted Kennedy getting off scot-free for Mary Joe Kopechne not to mention the crime syndicate Kennedy's becoming American "royalty"
As far as the politician in question I believe at least 80% of our present leaders should be executed by firing squad for theft and treason and this one should be hung by his scrotum!
Written by: Pepe32, 9 Sep 2012 9:26 PM
From: Dominican Republic
"@ by: LuisMiAM,your compete and utter display of religion just shows why your country belongs in the 17th century. incredible how the latinos, who are africans, still bow to the spanish crown. who the.... are you"
Benwa,when did Luis mention anything to do with Spain ? I cannot believe the BS coming out of US raised AfroNazis .Of course if someone bites off a chickens head for the Yoruba gods these morons are happy!
From: United States
@LuisMiam-Unfortunately, your are out of touch with present day reality.The social scenario you present was true for the past. It is no longer an acceptable option but reflective of a backward mentality.The argument you make about pubescent females marrying older well do males was considered a normal practice, however you are talking about a different world.These people were part of a predominately agricultural/Agrarian society, the most common form of socio-economic organization throughout recorded human history. But you also need to understand that only a century ago, people had short life spans, few were literate and no need for advance studies.That is why people married young and had plenty of children, there was no time to attend school because they knew they were not going to be around for long. However, life expectancy today is around 70+ and education is a requirement for life. Youth have plenty of time to grow-up, mature and get educated.
From: United States
If we allow the young to enter marital like relationships at too early age, we are doing them a great disservice. Humans have evolved slowly throughout history, technological developments have brought about dramatic change that has propelled human society into its next age. Today we live in a postindustrial society, that has developed over the past few decades, features an economy based on services and technology, not production or farming. Therefore, a 14 year must and needs to be in school preparing a foundation in which to build a solid future that will allow her to become a key player in what has become a globalized world. Youth should not be sexually active as a married partner, concubine, mistress or common law wife to any man, but most definitely not pregnant and rearing children. Why is this so hard to understand?
A fruit should be allowed to grow on its branch until it reaches maturity, let it get ripe before its picked off the tree and it will taste so much better
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 9:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@guillermone Thank You finally an intelligent answer, but you have taken me out of context, I agree 14 year old is too young to get married. My point is it must be up to her to decide if she was raped. We (society) often take a position that is untenable (unacceptable on it's merits) simply because we want to steer our members to our point of view. We don't need to damage that child's view of the world just because we don't agree with her decisions. Let me make this perfectly clear - If a minor says she was coerced, forced or tricked into having sex then it is rape, Absolutely! If that same minor says Yes I had sex, but I wasn't forced, then in my opinion it's simply a mistake on her part, not rape. I believe she should be given the opportunity so that at any time, even after she is an adult she could still charge that man with rape, but it has to be her choice!
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 9:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@guillermone - continue:
When the state takes the lead and charges the men with rape, the child will forever be a "victim" of rape. she will never live that down, SHE can never claim to be a "Woman", a way of taking control of her life and saying she is in charge, she is forever a victim. And let me just add one conjecture: what if she truly loved him, what if he truly loved her?? Here is her lover going to jail, how does she make that right for herself?
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 9:46 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@benwaballs: My display of religion was just to show - your total distain of religion. And by the way, I can trace my heritage all the way back to Columbus' first voyage and to Quisqueyan Indians.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 10:07 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Just one more scenario:Women often don't report rape because they don't want to get their lover in trouble, but what if she reports the sex without filing rape charges, and what if this girl marries the man, then 2,3, 5 years later he begins to abuse her? In my world that woman could still bring rape charges against that man. Even if socially people say, she has no business charging her husband with rape. In that case I believe the state has an obligation to support the woman's decision. That is a stronger case for women's rights than any I have read so far.
From: United States
LuisMiam-Perhaps I took your point of view out of context. And if I uderstood correctly what you are basically state is that adults should not be prohibitted from having sex with the underage as long as it is consentual and therefore the act need be decriminalized.
However, I stand firm, that mature men should exercise self-control and wisdom and must sexually distance themselves away from the under age precisely because there is greater chances for harm then good. Unfortunately, we live in a jungle world where people are out to prey on the weak and thrive on taking advange of the innocent. There is no way of actually knowing the real intent of the adult regardless of the level of sincerity, therefore the youth should be protected at all cost.
If society actually condones and makes allowance for this type of relationship, first there must be a minimum age, but definitely not 14 and practice within a structured framework not a haphazard loose type arrangement that we see
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 12:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@guillermone:
I in no way condone adults having sex with minors, and I fully agree with you, minors should be protected, they should be protected from someone who is just looking to have sex with a minor, such as a pedophile, and from unwanted sexual advances and from abusive situations. I just don't think America has all the answers and as my original post stated I don't see why the DR should subjugate it's authority to American standards. Rape by the court is just as damaging as sexual rape. The girl, her parents and only when the state has consulted with the girl and her parents then the state can decide - It should not be unilateral.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 12:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
We had a good system that worked for us, and thanks to this case now I can see pedophilia sites going up in the DR just as they are in the US. It's a perverted system that takes rights away from individual and gives absolute power to the state.In the US sex offenders can't find work, they are restricted were they can live, and they are basically under life long supervision. How would you feel if your granddad was a registered sex offender? How would your grandmother feel? In my case my father married & loved his wife for nearly 30 years, he was in no way a pedophile, but just you wait look at all the comments from the US that bad-mouth him, is this really the system we want in a country of less than 30 million people?? Has it made the US any safer??
Written by: Danilo, 10 Sep 2012 12:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic, www.DuckyDeals.com
"A fruit should be allowed to grow on its branch until it reaches maturity, let it get ripe before its picked off the tree and it will taste so much better."
Guillermoan,
Unfortunately our slums don't provide the proper nourishment for their fruits to mature. These girls will get knocked up in HS or earlier and most will not even graduate from HS. So young girls growing up in the slums are screwed either way, literally and figuratively, by older rich men, or by their community.
Maybe they should have a law for arranged marriages in which the guys are not able to touch the girls before she is 18, even if they are married.
Written by: THINK, 10 Sep 2012 1:08 PM
From: United States, SDQ -- Mia --NY
DR should have done this long time ago., but I am just wondering something if the guy is PLD member, will he be sentenced ???
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 1:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@Danilo "Maybe they should have a law for arranged marriages in which the guys are not able to touch the girls before she is 18, even if they are married."
Finally someone with some intelligence! I can only pray we come up with a better system!
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 1:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@Danilo: "Unfortunately our slums don't provide the proper nourishment for their fruits to mature..."
By the way I met my current wife in one of these Dominican Slums, she was 20 and had already lived with someone by the time she was 16. I married her & brought her to the US. 30 years later we are still married, with three grown children, one is a doctor (female), one is a programmer (male) and one is a budding producer (female). sometimes a fruit can still mature off the vine.
From: United States
Well, I guess, once a girl has been deflowered and been in a previous relationship although she is under the legal age of consent, I would tend to agree that under those circumstances the youth no longer qualifies or can be viewed as a minor and what I call the perfect example of what's the use.
But those are not the girls I am worried about. It is too late already, damage has been done and although most of them are salvageable, we most definitely want to prevent it. What I am concern about are the adults who are after the low hanging fruit.
And with regards to your prayers to "...come up with a better system!"
To your amazement, there are a few US states that already allow marriage of girls as young as 15 as long as they get parental permission. I think the parent should be involved and supervise the whole process. No one should just turn over their kids and allowed them to make adult decisions alone and by themselves. And this is where I have a problem.
From: United States
In kansas the minimum age to get married is 15. This legislation can be waived only by a district court judge who thinks that getting married at such a young age would be in that individual's best interest.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 10 Sep 2012 7:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@guillermone:"But those are not the girls I am worried about. It is too late already..."
There I have to strongly disagree with you, you should never "give up" on a minor, it's that kind of thinking that has lead to the kind of pathological legislation in the US. By giving up on them, you go from few rights to no rights at all, so then it's easy to abuse those women, or even worst. The answer is choice without judgement of the victim, she chooses and we accept her decision. I'm not saying people won't judge her I'm says Judges, Prosecutors, Lawyers, Police, Legislatures should not judge.
From: United States
LuisMiam-After reading your posts they seem rather ambiguous. It appears as if you give out mixed messages and are not really clear about where you stand. In some posts you state it is acceptable for youth to become sexually active with an older adult as long as there are no charges filed by the victim against the perpetrator. But in another you state that it is wrong for girls to be in a relationship unless she reaches the age of maturity and in fact supported a comment made by Danilo who said that "..the guys are not able to touch the girls before she is 18, even if they are married."
Can you briefly summarize exactly where you stand on this issue? You are either in favor or against minors involved in a relationship with adults. Which is it? (continued)
From: United States
I personally do not agree with it but am willing to make concessions as long as it is done under a closely supervised, structured environment where parents or guardians of the youth are actively involved in the decision making process, not in a lose like arrangement like how Ramon Antonio Fernandez proceeded. That is wrong and leaves the door wide open for abuse. No minor should just be allowed to arbitrarily move-in with a mature person no matter how innocuous the relationship may appear, at least not in our modern, very complex, present day society. The DR is neither a tribal country like Afghanistan, nor do we live in the jungle or during colonization. Those days are over and long gone. Welcome to the 21st century and to consider it any other way is nothing but a full manifestation of backward mentality in the making.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 12 Sep 2012 12:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I don't think I was at all ambiguous, it depends on the context and the society you live in. In the US a girl, any girl, is subject to the "Madona" complex - you are either a virgin or a w-ore. It's exactly the sentiment that you said with your "Deflowered..." comment. In the DR and in most countries a child when she has sex is given emancipation - she chooses to be treated as an adult - it's her choice, and except for the ex-wife of the man she's stealing (yes it is a pun, but it's also true) most women accept her as a woman and at that point they tack a "put up or shut-up" attitude. Rape is the forcible assault & battery - taking sex with out the woman's consent. for nearly a generation that has been the law of the land in the US.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 12 Sep 2012 12:35 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Continue:
I think the Supreme Court ruled a 12 year old can't give consent and that the state may bring charges against the Minor's wishes, and in fact since that ruling many sex-assault cases have been decided on those grounds. Currently there are almost 800,000 sex offenders and many of these men are married with children, that means close to 1.2 million families are under SO-registration the so called "Megan's Law". My point is in the US there is no benefit to the girl and great damage to her future. In the DR the laws are different and there are many benefits to the child, as long as she is protected from abuse. Look guillermore I know it's difficult for you , you obviously grew up in the US and you want to show patriotizm towards this country, I do too, but I have lived in both worlds and there is no way I can call my dad, or even danilo's grandad a sex offender, it's very damaging to society and as long as the US continues down that road, the US will continue to degrade.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 12 Sep 2012 1:12 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Guillermone: "...like how Ramon Antonio Fernandez proceeded...''
Mr. Fernandez is a political casualty, he's not even the real issue, he only got one year. but As I've said before, this prosecution will affect ALL men & women who choose to marry. The fact is many women marry between 14-16 years old, they and the men they married are the real losers in this case.
From: United States
When your parents as well as my own were growing up, it was common and socially acceptable for underage girls to elope with their mate. It was not at all unusual for them to live together as common law couple for many years, never formally married because that was the culture. No one batted an eye and therefore of course your father would and should not be considered a sex offenders by those standards. However, all of what I am saying is that times have changed and we must move forward, not backward.That is cave man behavior. We have to cut this stuff out. Casual sex with the underage should be neither promoted nor condoned. There are too many adults out there that feign sincerity, only have ulterior motives and what they really want is to take advantage of the vulnerable.
However, I believe that under certain circumstances a relationship with the underage is and can be acceptable only if remains within a controled enviroment and not carried out haphardardly as if it is no big deal
Written by: LuisMiAM, 12 Sep 2012 1:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Guillermone: ...However, I believe that under certain circumstances a relationship with an underage is and can be acceptable only if remains within a controled enviroment and not carried out haphardardly as if it is no big deal. ..."
You can't have it both ways, a police here, the US, anywhere will simply follow the law, because "The law is the law!" you seem to think it's a backward step to keep things as they are, you are simply wrong, when you are slipping down a mountain side, sometimes fighting to just stay were you are is progress. The American attitude is simply going to fail, As I have said before - it dose nothing but take rights away from the women. I think Danilos' answer was the best - you can marry, but you may not openly consummate the marriage until the child is eighteen. How can this work? It gives all the power to the woman, obviously they will have sex but the man can be charged with rape if SHE CHOOSES. The is a step forward from the cliff the US put us on.
From: United States
LuisMiam-you are confusing the hell out of me. Are you saying that you agree with Danilo or not ?
If an under age girl is legally married to an adult, the man can not be accused of satutory rape. That is and has been well established. However, if he does it without legal consent there is a penalty. It makes sense and I agree with that. This is what I mean by controlled environment.
If he wants the milk, he got to pay for the cow, You got me?
Written by: LuisMiAM, 12 Sep 2012 6:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic
I'm simply saying Danilo's point is a very progressive view. It is possible to allow marriage with out consummating the marriage until the child is an adult. You can have your milk but you have to wait til morning.
From: United States
"It is possible to allow marriage with out consummating the marriage until the child is an adult."
I disagree that Danilo's point is progressive, instead it is rather unrealistic. Why purchase a brand new car if you are unable and ready to drive it?
Although nothing is impossible, I think it is highly improbale and makes little sense to marry and then wait for the child to be an adult. Why do it in the first place.
It kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton when he said: "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale." Then what is the point? You smoke to get high and people marry to enjoy the benefits along with the drawbacks it offers. What is the idea behind it if it is not going to be consumated ? What is the purpose and why even bother?
Nevertheless, although I don't quite grasp exactly what is it you are trying to say or get at, I do understand the irony and absurdity of the human condition. I think Bill Clinton understands it too, to a good degree.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 13 Sep 2012 10:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@guillermone: You do that in order to give the child rights, and the ability to choose, remember the idea is to protect the woman. Sex isn't the point, you don't get married just for that, marriage dosen't legalize sex as it did in the past (progressive view). You know they may have sex, but it gives the woman rights if she's abused, and legal rights to property. Now men just "shack-up" with anyone they want, get the girl pregnant and leave when they are done. The key is giving the girl the legal right to take action as an abused wife.
This thread is getting way off track I believe it's time to end this. Bill Clinton is a pot smoking womanizer that, if he was an ordinary citizen, would have been charged with a sex offence, The guy that signed the Sex offender laws, should have been charged with a sex offence, if that isn't the sign of a pathological society I don't know what is ;-).
From: United States
Luis I enjoyed debating this topic with you and also I agree this should end, we are going around in circles. The original topic was whether or not it was legally and morally proper for a 40 year old guy to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old minor. I said no, but you believed it was alright as long as it was done within a "loving" relationship and only wrong or improper if the minor was forced or duped into it. You also stated that the male should not be automatically accused of statutory rape simply because he had sex with a minor. I do not know if I really understood where you are coming from, because on one end you are in favor of protecting the rights of a female minors but on another you don't think there is anything wrong for a minor to be sexually active with an adult and gave your parents as an example. You claim the present laws were not made to prohibit the practice and protect the minor but really just to prosecute the adult.
Written by: LuisMiAM, 13 Sep 2012 3:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic
This will be my last post on this subject. Think about it this way In the United States if a minor and an adult commits murder, he/she is prosecuted and could be given life imprisonment. If that same minor has sex with that adult, they are considered too young to give informed consent and only the adult is prosecuted. Just last week a 10 , Yes TEN, year old girl was charged with murder for killing an infant. In what rational society is this an acceptable situation? The Child should never been charged, how can a ten year old consent or have the mental capacity to commit wilful murder? I personally find the idea of sex with a minor disgusting, but rape is a violent act and is not the same as consensual sex. If you really wanted to stop the behavior charge them both with contributory negligence or don't charge either at all.
From: United States
"If you really wanted to stop the behavior charge them both with contributory negligence or don't charge either at all."
I think I got your your point and now that you put it that way it makes better sense. But you know what, sometimes when I see incongruencies in the law, I suspect it is done on purpose. The criminal justice system is just like any other enterprise, it needs to generate business to keep itself going. It must create traps for people to fall. They don't really want to stop anything and that is why you will never see a minor charged with a comparable crime. But I agree with your suggestion, charge them both or don't charge them at all. Nevertheless, if the law decides to prosecute them, doubt it will become a deterrant and a sure way to slow down business.
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Sorry but I can"t hold it in.....
Photo Caption.... Her ass was this big....
LMAO
Now it's your turn sucker. I hope some big Haitian has a little something for you in jail.
He is the first. The door is closed on him and the door is now open to bring other dubious lawmakers before the mast.
Lie-onel and Felix Bautista have RAPED the country's treasury, are they going to go to jail also?
You people are pathetic. Any other civilized country would have given him 10 year. And he'll be 're-elected' when he gets out, you all should be embarrassed.
This is how it should be done. And this was just for 'conspiring'.
"A Florida detective was sentenced to 12 years in prison for conspiring to steal marijuana from drug runners and divvying up the profits between his friends."
Her parents want a better life and opportunities for her, so they would give their consent right away. This is were the law would protect her, giving her time to grow up and then make her own decisions.
This is what happened to my grandma, it was pretty much an arranged marriage in which she didn't have any say in it. Her parents were more than glad to consent to this because of their living condition. Now she feels like she never got a chance to steer her own life for the 60 years they were married.
You people are pathetic. Any other civilized country would have given him 10 year. And he'll be 're-elected' when he gets out, you all should be embarrassed
THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS ONE JOKE, BUT NOT MANY ARE LAUGHING.
ITS RAPE WHEN U TAKE A YOUNG GIRL NO MATTER WHAT THE SO-CALLED PARENTS SAY ABOUT IT.
IN FLORIDA AND OTHER STATES ITS A LIFE SENTENCE, THIS LOW-LIFE WHO CANT GET A REAL WOMEN GOES AFTER BABIES FOR THIS SEX {GUESS HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO MAKE LOVE TO A REAL LADY.
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS WE HAVE THE CHOO CHOO TRAIN. AND THE BLUE MALL.
ALL ABOARD.
YES SHE IS YOUNG, BUT I GUESS THIS LOW-LIFE JUST HAD TO HELP HER MAKE UP HER MINE
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS WE HAVE NO EDUCATION FOR THE YOUNG BUT WE HAVE A CHOO CHOO TRAIN FOR ALL THE UNEDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE DR TO RIDE AROUND IN AND GO TO THE BLUE MALL TO WINDOW SHOP.
ALL ABOARD..
LOVE ? WHAT THE F.... DOES A 12-15Y OLD KNOW ABOUT LOVE?
THINK ITS MORE THAT THEY ARE DUMB AND DONT KNOW ANY BETTER.
CHOO CHOO TRAIN.
LOVE THAT I SAY.
LOL
LAND OF FOOLS AND UNEDUCATED PEOPLE.
@ Danilo
Good one *****s
Like crack head Marion Berry being re-elected in DC and Nagin in New Orleans not to mention Ted Kennedy getting off scot-free for Mary Joe Kopechne not to mention the crime syndicate Kennedy's becoming American "royalty"
As far as the politician in question I believe at least 80% of our present leaders should be executed by firing squad for theft and treason and this one should be hung by his scrotum!
Benwa,when did Luis mention anything to do with Spain ? I cannot believe the BS coming out of US raised AfroNazis .Of course if someone bites off a chickens head for the Yoruba gods these morons are happy!
A fruit should be allowed to grow on its branch until it reaches maturity, let it get ripe before its picked off the tree and it will taste so much better
When the state takes the lead and charges the men with rape, the child will forever be a "victim" of rape. she will never live that down, SHE can never claim to be a "Woman", a way of taking control of her life and saying she is in charge, she is forever a victim. And let me just add one conjecture: what if she truly loved him, what if he truly loved her?? Here is her lover going to jail, how does she make that right for herself?
However, I stand firm, that mature men should exercise self-control and wisdom and must sexually distance themselves away from the under age precisely because there is greater chances for harm then good. Unfortunately, we live in a jungle world where people are out to prey on the weak and thrive on taking advange of the innocent. There is no way of actually knowing the real intent of the adult regardless of the level of sincerity, therefore the youth should be protected at all cost.
If society actually condones and makes allowance for this type of relationship, first there must be a minimum age, but definitely not 14 and practice within a structured framework not a haphazard loose type arrangement that we see
I in no way condone adults having sex with minors, and I fully agree with you, minors should be protected, they should be protected from someone who is just looking to have sex with a minor, such as a pedophile, and from unwanted sexual advances and from abusive situations. I just don't think America has all the answers and as my original post stated I don't see why the DR should subjugate it's authority to American standards. Rape by the court is just as damaging as sexual rape. The girl, her parents and only when the state has consulted with the girl and her parents then the state can decide - It should not be unilateral.
Guillermoan,
Unfortunately our slums don't provide the proper nourishment for their fruits to mature. These girls will get knocked up in HS or earlier and most will not even graduate from HS. So young girls growing up in the slums are screwed either way, literally and figuratively, by older rich men, or by their community.
Maybe they should have a law for arranged marriages in which the guys are not able to touch the girls before she is 18, even if they are married.
Finally someone with some intelligence! I can only pray we come up with a better system!
By the way I met my current wife in one of these Dominican Slums, she was 20 and had already lived with someone by the time she was 16. I married her & brought her to the US. 30 years later we are still married, with three grown children, one is a doctor (female), one is a programmer (male) and one is a budding producer (female). sometimes a fruit can still mature off the vine.
But those are not the girls I am worried about. It is too late already, damage has been done and although most of them are salvageable, we most definitely want to prevent it. What I am concern about are the adults who are after the low hanging fruit.
And with regards to your prayers to "...come up with a better system!"
To your amazement, there are a few US states that already allow marriage of girls as young as 15 as long as they get parental permission. I think the parent should be involved and supervise the whole process. No one should just turn over their kids and allowed them to make adult decisions alone and by themselves. And this is where I have a problem.
There I have to strongly disagree with you, you should never "give up" on a minor, it's that kind of thinking that has lead to the kind of pathological legislation in the US. By giving up on them, you go from few rights to no rights at all, so then it's easy to abuse those women, or even worst. The answer is choice without judgement of the victim, she chooses and we accept her decision. I'm not saying people won't judge her I'm says Judges, Prosecutors, Lawyers, Police, Legislatures should not judge.
Can you briefly summarize exactly where you stand on this issue? You are either in favor or against minors involved in a relationship with adults. Which is it? (continued)
I think the Supreme Court ruled a 12 year old can't give consent and that the state may bring charges against the Minor's wishes, and in fact since that ruling many sex-assault cases have been decided on those grounds. Currently there are almost 800,000 sex offenders and many of these men are married with children, that means close to 1.2 million families are under SO-registration the so called "Megan's Law". My point is in the US there is no benefit to the girl and great damage to her future. In the DR the laws are different and there are many benefits to the child, as long as she is protected from abuse. Look guillermore I know it's difficult for you , you obviously grew up in the US and you want to show patriotizm towards this country, I do too, but I have lived in both worlds and there is no way I can call my dad, or even danilo's grandad a sex offender, it's very damaging to society and as long as the US continues down that road, the US will continue to degrade.
Mr. Fernandez is a political casualty, he's not even the real issue, he only got one year. but As I've said before, this prosecution will affect ALL men & women who choose to marry. The fact is many women marry between 14-16 years old, they and the men they married are the real losers in this case.
However, I believe that under certain circumstances a relationship with the underage is and can be acceptable only if remains within a controled enviroment and not carried out haphardardly as if it is no big deal
You can't have it both ways, a police here, the US, anywhere will simply follow the law, because "The law is the law!" you seem to think it's a backward step to keep things as they are, you are simply wrong, when you are slipping down a mountain side, sometimes fighting to just stay were you are is progress. The American attitude is simply going to fail, As I have said before - it dose nothing but take rights away from the women. I think Danilos' answer was the best - you can marry, but you may not openly consummate the marriage until the child is eighteen. How can this work? It gives all the power to the woman, obviously they will have sex but the man can be charged with rape if SHE CHOOSES. The is a step forward from the cliff the US put us on.
If an under age girl is legally married to an adult, the man can not be accused of satutory rape. That is and has been well established. However, if he does it without legal consent there is a penalty. It makes sense and I agree with that. This is what I mean by controlled environment.
If he wants the milk, he got to pay for the cow, You got me?
I disagree that Danilo's point is progressive, instead it is rather unrealistic. Why purchase a brand new car if you are unable and ready to drive it?
Although nothing is impossible, I think it is highly improbale and makes little sense to marry and then wait for the child to be an adult. Why do it in the first place.
It kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton when he said: "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale." Then what is the point? You smoke to get high and people marry to enjoy the benefits along with the drawbacks it offers. What is the idea behind it if it is not going to be consumated ? What is the purpose and why even bother?
Nevertheless, although I don't quite grasp exactly what is it you are trying to say or get at, I do understand the irony and absurdity of the human condition. I think Bill Clinton understands it too, to a good degree.
This thread is getting way off track I believe it's time to end this. Bill Clinton is a pot smoking womanizer that, if he was an ordinary citizen, would have been charged with a sex offence, The guy that signed the Sex offender laws, should have been charged with a sex offence, if that isn't the sign of a pathological society I don't know what is ;-).
I think I got your your point and now that you put it that way it makes better sense. But you know what, sometimes when I see incongruencies in the law, I suspect it is done on purpose. The criminal justice system is just like any other enterprise, it needs to generate business to keep itself going. It must create traps for people to fall. They don't really want to stop anything and that is why you will never see a minor charged with a comparable crime. But I agree with your suggestion, charge them both or don't charge them at all. Nevertheless, if the law decides to prosecute them, doubt it will become a deterrant and a sure way to slow down business.