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Santo Domingo.– The People’s National Movement (PNM) of Trinidad and Tobago has joined the many international voices condemning the recent court decision to strip the citizenship of thousands of people of Hatian descent in the Dominican Republic, effectively leaving them without a nationality.

The PNM expresses its condemnation of the recent outrageous decision of the Dominican Republic, where steps have been taken to revoke the citizenship of Haitian nationals who were born in the country, as well as recent immigrants to that country over the last 85 years. 

"According to the international press, this high court decision is to have retroactive effect, resulting therefore in the abandonment of affected Haitians to the unfortunate category of stateless persons," PNM political leader Dr. Keith Rowley said in a statement Friday. 

Rowley said he firmly believed the condemnation of this unprecedented and inhumane action by Dominican Republic’s courts should meet with the overwhelming support and endorsement of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. 

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COMMENTS
255 comment(s)
Written by: zooma, 26 Oct 2013 9:31 AM
From: United States, and Dominican Republic

....... another country heard from. ¿ What does that indicate ?

Maybe, the DR should really review its pollcies, laws, and definitions of in transit Haitians and pursue a humane and just way to resolve the matter without creating a bureacratic calamity that will raid its capabilities to regularize the in transit subjects. .......... "Meaning they started something they cannot finish"


Ok, you flag wavers get your flags out, and tell the in transits to go back to Haiti.

Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 9:46 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

Natural gas anyone?

Written by: DONT_BE_SILENT, 26 Oct 2013 10:42 AM
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NOR FORSAKEN!
Natural gas anyone?


Guatemala just offered natural gas to the Dom. Rep. oh, boo hoo!
Written by: guillermone, 26 Oct 2013 10:50 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"Trinidad and Tobago condemns Dominican court decision."

Good..............

Let them condemn all they want, but let them also take in at least half of our illegal Haitians.
T&T as the money and can afford a hell of a lot more then the DR could.
Therefore, they should follow the advice, "put (one's) money where (one's) mouth is."
Written by: telemeco, 26 Oct 2013 10:58 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
Josean, you still thinking that this planet you live in sticking together have more meaning then paying for the green buck. Trinidad and Tobago is not going to stop selling natural gas to the DR over some Haitian issues. How many Haitian does Trinidad and Tobago take in,,,Maybe the DR should start teaching the Haitian how to get there and let see how many of you get deported, just like the the USA, Bahama, Peru, Brazil, Chile and the DR is doing, if you notice neither of these countries is saying a word about DR internal affair.

Send some Haitian over to all these caricon countries and you will see them singing the same song as the Dominican...and a big remark will come back saying WE TOLD YOU SO
Written by: JHCL2016, 26 Oct 2013 11:08 AM
From: Dominican Republic, EN PUNTA CANA: Jose H Con Leonel 2016!

They are all passing gas; U.S. will be next...

Bolivia ofrece vender gas natural a la RD
almomento.net/articulo/148400/Bolivia-ofrece-vender-gas-natural-a-la-RD

;-)
Written by: xfactor, 26 Oct 2013 11:37 AM
From: United States
jajajaja Trinidad & Tobago? What a joke! These guys don't want Haitians so much they are all starting to freak out and issuing irrelevant statements.
Written by: venganzaderafael, 26 Oct 2013 11:39 AM
From: United States
The DR should actively help illegal migrants to reach the shores of all the countries condemning our courts' decision. Lets see how they handle the situation. Enough lip service from hypocrites.
Why doesn't T & T grant visas to a few hundred haitians if they are so concerned about their plight?
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 11:45 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"Written by: DONT_BE_SILENT, 26 Oct 2013 10:42 AMFrom: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!

Natural gas anyone?

Guatemala just offered natural gas to the Dom. Rep. oh, boo hoo!"

You might know how to spell but you don't know shit about geography.

It was Bolivia, Shakespeare!

"Bolivia wants to help DR with natural gas for power plants"

cocnoticias.com/2013/10/24/bolivia-atraido-en-ayudar-a-rd-con-gas-natural-para-plantas-electricas/


Written by: IloveDR, 26 Oct 2013 11:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
stfu Trinidad we DONT CARE!
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 12:23 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"He must be killed right there, and burn that damn Haitian!"

“¡Hay que matarlo ahí mismo, y que se achicharre con la candela ese maldito haitiano!”


7dias.com.do/portada/2013/10/25/i150615_hay-que-matarlo-ahi-mismo-que-achicharre-con-candela-ese-maldito-haitiano.html


Written by: riosm, 26 Oct 2013 12:29 PM
From: United States
Since they condemn the DR maybe they should lead by opening their borders and take all Haitians or better yet supply aide to Haiti.
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 12:38 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Ultra derecha se impone sobre liberales dominicanos"

"Ultra right imposes itself on liberal Dominicans"


hoy.com.do/ultra-derecha-se-impone-sobre-liberales-dominicanos/



Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2013 1:41 PM
From: United States, New York City
The point here is not act tough, because all Dominican politicians know darn well that they went too far and allowed themselves to be driven by the xenophobic/black helicopter groups.

People, the majority of Dominicans want something to be done with the Haitian problem, moreover, the international community knows that the Dominican Republic must do something about the Haitian problem. no one is going to give the DR a hard time for acting on the matter on their soil. The country has the right to act accordingly within its borders.

the problem here is not the deportation of HAITIANS, but the way that the country is going about it. You guys tend to forget that the problem here is not the end, but the mean. The DR is dead wrong for taking this road to regulating Haitian's immigration. The international community knows that the process is not comprehensive, but targeted. The DR should have had issue such decree for all groups, including the Jews and Muslims and others..continu
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2013 1:44 PM
From: United States, New York City
groups that have been in the country for generation. If they apply the 1929 rule for everyone, that will cover the more than 50k Jews that were taken by Trujillo during WWII as stateless people from Europe. Moreover, you count the Canaries migrants that were introduced by Trujillo to whiten the island during his rein as well. My great grandfather was one of those that came from Canaries, however, I guess that in my case the whitening did not work because Yo soy un negro sabroso, lol.

So the problem here is not deportation, but process.
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 1:48 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



The Snowballing effect of the racist court decision continues to grow!


"Exigió, asimismo, el retiro inmediato de la referida sentencia o "boicotearemos los productos dominicanos y el turismo".

"We demand immediate withdrawal of the ruling or we will boycott Dominican products and tourism"

"Ningún demócrata y antirracista debería visitar República Dominicana, como muestra de solidaridad con esos ciudadanos dominicanos amenazados de destierro por su origen racial.", indicó.

"No democrat or anti racist should visit the Dominican Republic, as a demonstration of solidarity with those Dominican citizens threatened with deportation because of their racial origin"


almomento.net/m.articulo.php?id=148446




Written by: danny00, 26 Oct 2013 1:55 PM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
Mr Venganzadersfael... He should make his user name a little longer.., any let me get to the point Rafael... Enough lip service from Hypocrites?....now the truth of the matter is this so-Called Country of the RD they would not give anyone the right time of the Day if one was to ask for it(Not a glass of water if you where dying)........Hypocrites?... Hey, Ralph what time does the next boat leave for Puerto Rico?......Rafael you god damn well know how many Domincan have travel to other countries illegaly?.....,,ten of thousands in Washington Heights alone...
Written by: telemeco, 26 Oct 2013 2:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Monte Plata
i guess i have no paper either,,,my great grandparent came from Greece
Written by: riosm, 26 Oct 2013 2:16 PM
From: United States
My Grandfather from my fathers side migrated from Puerto Rico to the DR in 1917.....LEGALLY. My parents migrated to America in 1962...LEGALLY. Many can't distinguish between legal and illegal.

Even Mexico has a illegal immigration problem with Central and South Americans. In Mexico they rape, kill, rob, hold for ransom and force many to become drug mules into the U.S.
Written by: CarlosFranco, 26 Oct 2013 2:16 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn

Who cares what T&T thinks?
Written by: guillermone, 26 Oct 2013 2:16 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"Rafael you god damn well know how many Domincan have travel to other countries illegaly?.....,,ten of thousands in Washington Heights alone..."

Still not enough to compare with the proportion of Haitians in the DR with Dominicans in other countries
Written by: CarlosFranco, 26 Oct 2013 2:17 PM
From: United States, Brooklyn
Maybe T&T can take them?
Written by: venganzaderafael, 26 Oct 2013 3:31 PM
From: United States
doble 0 a la izquierda, again I am sorry you have lived , studied and later in life hung out with lowlifes; definitely understand how it has been mentally detrimental.

Back to issue, as Guille pointed out , what we are dealing with here is the MASSIVE numbers compared to our population. Which in turn is exacerbating our own exodus to PR, NY, Florida Keys ( a coge pa'lla muchachos! ) .

To paint you a picture in crayon, imagine 60 million Mexicans appearing within a 10 year period. Heck we might have some increase in American immigrants world wide looking for jobs.

For every Haitian that comes in , a Dominican leaves his homeland. I have ran into and spoken to Dominicans in many places and all have the same story : low wages, haitians in every nook , cranny , valley, hill , forest , village , town and city, insecurity, lack of opportunity. May add that all I met in these previously undominicanized places hailed from somewhere in EL CIBAO.

With world complicity.
Written by: guillermone, 26 Oct 2013 4:16 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"For every Haitian that comes in , a Dominican leaves his homeland. I have ran into and spoken to Dominicans in many places and all have the same story : low wages, haitians in every nook , cranny , valley, hill , forest , village , town and city, insecurity, lack of opportunity. May add that all I met in these previously undominicanized places hailed from somewhere in EL CIBAO."

What you have just described is scary as HELL...............
People just don't understand that Haitians are peacefully pushing out the native born and replaced with Haitians. Before you know it we won't be able to tell the two countries apart. Which is exactly what the international community is hoping will happen. The Dominican state is trying hard to reverse the trend, only to find opposition from all corners. Unfortunately, they started a bit too late. This is like late stage cancer, no matter how hard you try to fight it in the end the cancer will end up killing you anyway.

Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 4:27 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



That's right wing racist Bull Shit!

I don't think I have ever heard a Dominican immigrant say he left his country because of the Haitian hordes!



Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 26 Oct 2013 5:34 PM
From: United States
now dominicans are leaving DR because of HAitians. Jesus you guys sound like fools. Send all illegals back but common sense will tell you going back to 1929 and punishing generations for the sins of their forefathers is idioitic. right is right and wrong is wrong.
Written by: josean, 26 Oct 2013 5:45 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"now dominicans are leaving DR because of HAitians."

ignoranceisbliss,


The Dominican AF®IKANERS just make it up as they go along!

Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 26 Oct 2013 8:50 PM
From: United States
Josean,

The poor and those living abroad are the ones that are usually the most ahem "nationalistic". Let's see how this plays out.
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 26 Oct 2013 10:45 PM
From: Haiti
Ignorance
I agree with you, the guys are not Haitians they Know onely the Dominican culture. I don t understand How Rafael vengeance CAN agree with guillermona. El maricone. The aim of Dominican rep Is to steal the house of those Dominicans. The politicians dominicans play with the fear of The dominicans Who Hate the haitians. All dominicans dont understand That the act Is similar to the act of Hitler Who take the nationality of the jews, déport them And kill them. I think now Haitians Will understand That his neighbour Dominican Is the worse ennemy of Haïti. We have to give an Answer to républic Dominican. We have to boycott all product of this racist countrý the same for the tourist. We have to tell all other country in the world the truth. Médina Will the most hypocrit And worse président of dr. All Haitians Will understand That Dr Is not And Never Will a good neighbour for us. We have to understand That the dominicans live in the past And the past Will kill this country. Viva H
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 26 Oct 2013 10:57 PM
From: Haiti
Vengeance Rafael
You have to tell the truth, your country Is an ass of country. Dr look for something Will kill all progress. If you exécute your plan à day, the Children of those people Who are Dominicans Will give you an Answer And I think your army cannot do anything against this guys. You talk bad about dessaline but you are not better than Dessaline, you Forget What your spanish or french people do against the black people, your ancestor have à lot of blond on their hand, you have steal the live And money about the people. Now little Dr wich à lot of idiot Who are manage by à group of racist wont to steal the goods, the money And the Life of people Who are not Haitians. Happy i am not Dominican. You Will pay your act.
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 26 Oct 2013 11:00 PM
From: Haiti
Not blond but blood

Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 26 Oct 2013 11:04 PM
From: United States
kiskeya,

Dominicans aren't haitians enemies. Go to DR. Our poorest of the poor go to DR in huge numbers. I saw with my own eyes. Dr government provide for them more than our haitian parasites who run haiti.
After the Earthquake Dr was the first country in Haiti. FACT. Go to DR and don't believe the propaganda we're fed in Haiti. We're not that different.
You will have a handful of morons making inflamatory comments. Most of these fools on here know more about Haiti then they let on. Most of these guys on this site say things to get haitians riled up. I fell for it early on. Racist no Classism yes. Prejuidice towards haitians yes.
Both sides are fools if you ask me.
Written by: ohhhvictor, 26 Oct 2013 11:09 PM
From: United States
Written by: riosm, 26 Oct 2013 12:29 PM
From: United States
Since they condemn the DR maybe they should lead by opening their borders and take all Haitians or better yet supply aide to Haiti.


Excellent!..Just excellent!
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 26 Oct 2013 11:10 PM
From: United States
Kiskeya,

Every country has a boogieman to distract the people. Growing up it was russia, germany, bird flu, swine flu, bin laden, war on terror.
It's a game that's being played on the masses.
Written by: venganzaderafael, 26 Oct 2013 11:36 PM
From: United States
Kiskeya, yes you are right Mon cousin, many of us are not necessarily living in the past but definitely thinking and remembering the past. There is an American saying that says if you forget the past you are condemned to repeat it.
Dominicans like Guillermone and myself have conflicting thoughts on this most recent Haitian immigration to our country. While we empathize with the descendants of the sugarcane workers and actually disapprove of denying them citizenship, due to the fact you originally pointed out months ago that they are culturally more Dominican than Haitians, don't speak Creole and would get lost if dropped in the middle of Haiti, we are concerned with the nonstop violations of our borders by recent and illegal immigrants. (The sugarcane workers were brought here legally. Their children as far as I am concerned are my compatriots).
But those that have crossed without legal visas in the last 10 yrs are causing a backlash and concern they may also want citizenship.
Written by: generoso, 26 Oct 2013 11:36 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
The Dominican Republic is NOT the solution to the Haitian problems.
If the folks in predominantly black, Indian and Chinese Trinidad and Tobago, are so worried about the welfare of the illegal Haitians, then they should put the money where their mouth is, and accept about 100,000 haitians into their country. The rest of the Caricom countries should do the same, and each accept Haitian immigration.
But no, they point fingers at us, and preach to us, that we are bad people and xenophobic racists, but they don't want Haitians immigrating to their countries. If in doubt research haitian immigrants in Barbados, Jamaica, Antigua, Turks and Caicos, Bahamas, and even Cuba.
The DR is not the ONLY solution to Haiti's problems, the problem has to be dealt with by the whole Caribbean, and furthermore, by the USA, Canada, the UK and France, that carry a greater responsibility for the Haitian plight.
The DR is tired and drained, for caring and sheltering their most ungrateful neighbors.


Written by: saru2191, 26 Oct 2013 11:51 PM
From: United States
Why should the DR have issued the decree for all groups, dagtan? You should realize the decree is really being issued to all groups that arrived to the DR without the government's consent, hence "illegaly". When the DR was put under US occupation, the US brought haitians into the DR for cheap work in the sugarcane industry. Since this action was the decision of the US and not the DR government, it can be said that these Haitians entered the DR illegally. The Muslim, Jew, and Canary migrants you speak of (as well as the Black West Indian Migrants that you conveniently forgot to mention) all entered the DR through the consent of the country's government, hence this decree wouldn't apply to any Dominican who descends from any of these groups. So while I actually disaprove of the DR taking away the residency of Dominicans whose family lived there for generations, to scream hypocrisy where there isn't any is also just stupid and race baiting.
Written by: saru2191, 26 Oct 2013 11:59 PM
From: United States
"Rafael you god damn well know how many Domincan have travel to other countries illegaly?.....,,ten of thousands in
Washington Heights alone..."

danny00, Dominicans only make up 0.53 percent of the entire US population with statisitcs showing most to be legal. The illegal Haitian population in DR is somewhere between 20 to 30 percent of the entire country's population. To even attempt to compare the two is just stupid on your part.
Written by: venganzaderafael, 27 Oct 2013 12:03 AM
From: United States
Generoso speaks for many of us in that the people are tired, drained and overwhelmed by the numbers that have immigrated to DR these past few years.
Haitians have displaced Dominicans in the fields of construction, domestic help, agriculture. American friends visit my country and bring back pictures of the hotel workers and they are overwhelmingly haitians. My countrymen are leaving in droves trying to find better opportunities abroad. Haitian presence may not be the direct reason for their departure, but they definitely contribute.
Besides the Dominicans I have run into this last year that have recently migrated to the US, 3 family members and their families have also left DR with more family members planning to leave. Again the haitians were not the main reason given but they don't make it easier.

I am actually planning a reverse migration and am going to move back to my island. Somebody has to keep the Dominican flag waving. Sorry Kman you guys can't have DR.
Written by: venganzaderafael, 27 Oct 2013 12:26 AM
From: United States
Kiskeyaman , I ask you, if a Dominican couple moves to Haiti, legally or not , are their Haitian born children given Haitian citizenship? Yes or no?

Regardless all the opinions given here the DR courts decision opens the door for the most recent Haitian illegals to correct their status. Unfortunately the 2nd and 3rd generation descendants of the braseros of the sugarcane industry have been thrown in with the latest illegals. This I disagree with .

We should have left things as they were.
I would prefer to keep our Haitian-Dominicans as citizens and just deport 75% of the recent migrants.
Does that sound better to everyone?
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:38 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Edit

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:38 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

The Brian Lehrer Show

Citizenship in the Dominican Republic

The government of the Dominican Republic has decided to revoke citizenship from those born in the country to Haitian migrants. Assistant Clinical Professor of Law, and Associate Director of the International Human Rights Law Clinic at UC Berkeley, Roxanna Altholz, explains what the decision will mean for the thousands of Dominican citizens of Haitian descent who are now stateless, and what led to the decision. Edward Paulino, professor of history at John Jay Collegeand an organizer of Border of Lights, a group dedicated to Haitian-Dominican history, talks about relations between the two countries. 

Listen to the interview at:

wnyc.org/story/citizenship-dominican-republic/

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:40 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Edit

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:40 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

The Leonard Lopate Show

Underreported: Haiti and the Dominican Republic: Uneasy Neighbors on One Small Island

On today's Underreported, a look into the history of discrimination against Haitians in the Dominican Republic, and why the two neighbors are so culturally and politically different. Leonard talks toDr. Edward Paulino, professor of history at CUNY's John Jay College; and Julissa Reynoso, an attorney and activist in New York City. She recently co-authored an article for Clamor magazine called »On Reversals: Blackness And Political Freedom On Hispaniola.

Listen to the interview at:

wnyc.org/story/52074-underreported-haiti-and-the-dominican-republic-uneasy-neighbors-on-one-small/

Written by: airgordo, 27 Oct 2013 5:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: zooma, 26 Oct 2013 9:31 AM
From: United States

....... another country heard from. ¿ What does that indicate ?

Maybe, the DR should really review its pollcies, laws, and definitions of in transit Haitians and pursue a humane and just way to resolve the matter without creating a bureacratic calamity that will raid its capabilities to regularize the in transit subjects. .......... "Meaning they started something they cannot finish"


Ok, you flag wavers get your flags out, and tell the in transits to go back to Haiti.
##

Trinidad should MIND THEIR OWN F@CKING BUSINESS, there have never been a Dominican Opinion on their affairs, but i'm very glad they did this because of all the recks with people of the uselessCARICOM they are the ones with the most to lose, ALL natural Gas purchases should be STOPPED from these back stabbers, let them have one client less.
Written by: airgordo, 27 Oct 2013 5:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean,
From: United States

The Brian Lehrer Show

Citizenship in the Dominican Republic

The government of the Dominican Republic has decided to revoke citizenship from those born in the country to Haitian migrants. Assistant Clinical Professor of Law, and Associate Director of the International Human Rights Law Clinic at UC Berkeley, Roxanna Altholz, explains what the decision will mean for the thousands of Dominican citizens of Haitian descent who are now stateless, and what led to the decision. Edward Paulino, professor of history at John Jay Collegeand an organizer of Border of Lights, a group dedicated to Haitian-Dominican history, talks about relations between the two countries.

Listen to the interview at:

wnyc.org/story/citizenship-dominican-republic/
##

And this UNGRATEFUL Haitian keeps posting LIE after LIE...look at the start of his post, it says THE GOVERMENT OF DR has decided...this clown don't even know what a LEGAL system is
Written by: airgordo, 27 Oct 2013 5:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2013 1:44 PM
From: United States, New York City
groups that have been in the country for generation. If they apply the 1929 rule for everyone, that will cover the more than 50k Jews that were taken by Trujillo during WWII as stateless people from Europe. Moreover, you count the Canaries migrants that were introduced by Trujillo to whiten the island during his rein as well. My great grandfather was one of those that came from Canaries, however, I guess that in my case the whitening did not work because Yo soy un negro sabroso, lol.

So the problem here is not deportation, but process.
##

YOU just said it YOURSELF!! you WROTE: taken BY TRUJILLO, therefore those people DID NOT APPEAR OUT OF THIN AIR on the country, they ENTERED LEGALLY hence they DO NOT FALL under the court ruling BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN TRANSIT but brought to LIVE HERE by TRUJILLO...if you can't understand that simple thing you will NEVER get it.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 8:05 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The AF®IKANERS can't take the International Heat!

They were defeated in the USA, South Africa and they are on the Ropes in DR!


Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 8:58 AM
From: United States
says Dagtan

Written by: dagtan, 26 Oct 2013 1:41 PM
From: United States, New York City
The point here is not act tough, because all Dominican politicians know darn well that they went too far and allowed themselves to be driven by the xenophobic/black helicopter groups.


brilliant. there has to be something done about the Haitian immigratiojn into the DR. no doubt about it. it is what is to be done, and how. maybe these guys did not think this one out too well.

as to the chivos who will reflexively say "f the world, we do not care what they say", they better think again. without the rest of the world, you are going nowhere, fast.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 9:13 AM
From: United States, New York City
@ airgordo, the thing is that you fail to recognize that the first two waves of Haitian's migrations were taken in by the Dominican government to work in the cheap labor market with no definition of status. Yes, TRUJILLO himself was the architect of the second wave when he took over the sugar mills in the 1930's. Yes, your truly TRUJILLO imported 1000k's of haitians to work in his sugar industry and never bothered to clarify their status. Only towards the end of his reign he realized that the border towns were systematically taken over by Haitians he acted.

Again, the Jews, Canarians, Muslism and others were introduced into the country under different conditions, and as you none were granted automatic citizenship. I know for a fact that my great grand father was never granted documentation, all he had was a work permit, but no one questioned him because of the way he looked.

Dr. Lautaro, airgordo needs a refresher on Haitian immigrations and the three waves explanation.
Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 9:21 AM
From: United States
Dr Lautaro; i like it.....
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Let me refresh, then: "Broadly speaking, there have been four:

a) From 1868 to 1900: This one had a limited impact, since the epicenter of the migration was the (by then) disputed area of the Central Plateau of the island. The end result of this one would be the final loss on the part of the DR of that region and its main towns: St. Michel de la Atalaye, Hinche (the place where Pedro Santana was born), St. Raphael and Las Cahobas, due to the fact that Haitian peasants came to outnumber Dominican ones on the towns in question, a fact that wasn't lost to the American forces that would unofficially draw the current line in 1912. This map shows the full extent of the DR's claims (some 5,000 kms2, more or less):

1.bp.blogspot.com/_sK8026fjcvw/SbfUt9jwu5I/AAAAAAAAAYU/JmGD3mQ81WE/s400/Mapa+1844.JPG

Which leads us to the second wave: (continued)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:26 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
b) From 1918 to 1937: This one would be prompted by the labour needs of the sugar mills belonging to American multinationals (Puerto Rican Sugar Company of New York), and the main suppliers would be the marines that were occupying both sides of the island at the time, profitting from the availability of landless peasants swelling the main Haitian cities (Port Au Prince, Gonaives and Le Cap). Repeating a pattern that would appear later in the century, the peasants preferred to stay in the bateyes (a miserable collection of shanties surrounding the mills, resembling Quilomboes/Palenques and other maroon settlements of slavery time). This would reach an alarming levels by the 1930's, since the disorder in which the political landscape was thrown in after the American's evacuated this part (1924) was such that the state didn't have control of entire zones of the northwest and southwest, where the Haitian gourde became the currency and the comercial surplus ended up in Pt. Au Prince (cont)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
(cont.) rather than in SDQ. This situation, coupled with the loss of the Central Plateau on the final border treaty of the 1930's, was what prompted the dictator Trujillo to carry out the massacre (not before crushing the local caudillo resistance posed by Desiderio Arias and Cipriano Bencosme first). Of course, the American and local writers chronicling that decade will never tell you about these factors when looking for reasons behind the tragedy (perhaps with the sole exception of Richard Turits, but even him failed to catch the full impact that the territorial loss suffered by the Republic had as a motive behind the event). Anyway, after the massacre was carried out, the situation would remain more or less under control, until Trujillo took control of the sugar industry in the 1950's, during which he would get to copy the American transnationals in the employment of Haitian labor, but with the differing variable that he would be careful in returning the cane cutters home (cont..)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:31 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
(cont...) after the cultivation time was over under armed escort, a measure that would be dropped after he was dispatched in 1961. Which leads us to the third wave:

c) From 1961 to 2003: During this time, the migration would be limited to the bateyes of the sugar complex inherited by the CEA and the Vicini's after Trujillo's death, under explicit agreements with the Duvalier regime, which acted in a way reminding the manner in which some Haitian independence leaders, like Jean Francois Papilon and Georges Biassou, used to sell their compatriots to the colonial powers of the time. I think the bulk of the people affected by the court ruling belongs to this category, and I agree with you that these should be granted protection. Of course, my compassion runs dry when one refers to the last, current and ongoing, wave:

d) From 2004 to the present: which was prompted by the situation created on the coup d'etat against Aristide, but (cont.)
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
(Cont...) but which have counted with the open complicity of Leonel Fernandez, in order to satisfy the greed of the construction moguls and agrarian barons, as well as the slave traffickers among the military. I wouldn't be surprised if the newcomers had more numbers than the bateyeros as we speak, specially since one can't pass a day on this city or Santiago without listening kreyol being spoken as one can see the packs moving on to those neo plantations that the construction works here have become, without mentioning the beggar/street peddler situation on the avenues, the situation being worse in Bavaro, Punta Cana and Veron, where it's not an exaggeration to say that they compose more than half the population on those locales. Of course, it goes without saying that most people nowadays live in the big cities, due to the dismantlement of the agrarian apparatus that dagtan spoke about in one of the current threads.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:35 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
For more info about the history of the Central Plateau of the island, read "La Colonizacion de la Frontera Dominicana 1680-1795" by the Canarian historian Manuel Vicente Hernandez Gonzalez, which can be found on the following direction: agn.gov.do/node/74

For the border negotiations, see "Historia de la Cuestion Fronteriza Dominico-Haitiana" by Manuel Arturo Peña Batlle, in which all the border treaties and the negotiations behind them can be found. Refrettably, this book hasn't been digitalized yet, and can be found only in the library of the Central Bank, as well as the Archivo General de la Nacion, and the National Library Juan Pablo Duarte.
Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 9:41 AM
From: United States
i changed my mind. Professor Lautaro.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:51 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
About remaining here, dr. Dread?
Written by: guillermone, 27 Oct 2013 9:56 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

Thanks Lautaro for the cold hard facts.............nothing more nothing less.
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 10:09 AM
From: United States, New York City
@ Dr. Lautaro, thank you again for coming out and providing us with your great knowledge. I needed you to throw in that lifeline for airgordo, just to help him out a little in understanding how confusing and complicated this issue really is. As I said before, it will take a few decades to get it done cleanly and it will take a tremendous amount of effort on the DR government to start listening to the intelligentsia of the country and not the xenophobes/black helicopter groups.

The government most responsible for this very difficult issue is sitting on the sidelines allowing the Dominicans do in themselves by going about this road. President Martelly has not come out and made a statement because our actions gave him the high ground, granting him a great deal of sympathy from the international community. He'll raise many more millions to feed his bottom feeders government on the idiocy of the Dominican government. Oh well, live and learn DR, until next time.

Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 10:15 AM
From: United States
asks the professor

Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 9:51 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
About remaining here, dr. Dread?

no. from referring to you as plain old Dr Lautaro, and using Professor instead.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 10:24 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Juan Bolivar Diaz Analysis: They have chosen disorder to exploit immigrants


acento.com.do/index.php/news/131367/56/Analisis-de-Juan-Bolivar-Diaz-Han-preferido-el-desorden-para-explotar-inmigrantes.html





Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 10:31 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
"no. from referring to you as plain old Dr Lautaro, and using Professor instead."

Lol. I will return to the classrooms next year after a much needed break, God only knows how hard it is to end a master's degree while working at the same time, specially in such an obstacle ladden environment such as this one. I will be adding another language to my resume (French), but the motive of this one is to review historical material on that language that still have to see a Spanish and/or English translation.
Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 10:42 AM
From: United States
you are just learning French so you can go dig up old original Haitian documents. you don't fool me.
Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 10:43 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
True, but lately my interest have widened to include the entirety of what once was New France, dr. dread, specially after reading material from dr. James Pritchard, and seeing the multiple sources he used on the language. I used to concentrate on monarchical France before I began to tackle its main colony, so it's natural to keep up broadening the net, so to speak.
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 11:02 AM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
Lautaro
Hermano, as always your historical pinch hitting comes with great timing. As you can witness by the persistent and repetitious postings, of Haitian lobbyists such as Josean (previously infatuated with the Metro), the fusion of the two nations plot thickens, and the players show a glimpse of the cards that they are holding.
The situation is the same as the latest imperial imposition of their will in April 1965, when a democratic revolution (yes democratic), was stopped and reversed by retrograde forces.
Nowadays it's is virtually impossible (but not improbable), that another military adventure to serve the needs of the empire, occur in the 21 ST century, due to an increase in awareness and also due to the exponential exposure of the news and communication media because of the web.
Still the empire(s) keep insisting on force feeding us their prescribed and unsavory solution, to the prospects of dealing with the rag tag and failed state of Haiti. (cont)
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 11:13 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Great Unification Conspiracy!

A member of the Black Helicopter Crowd has arrived!





Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 11:15 AM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
It is really a down hill policy for the most interested players in a Haiti-DR fusion, ( USA, Canada, France and the UK) and their abundantly sponsored and financed NGO's for the unification of the island, in partnership with "vende patrias" of the PLD, now in close relationships with historical bumblers and losers like Hipoloco's faction in the PRD.
Follow the money trail, and one's will discover the culprits and interests behind this latest anti-Dominican plot.
On the DR side Haiti is what the US west was in the 19 TH century, with an ignorant and illiterate native population, mostly destitute and raggedy, equivalent to the indian native residents of the US western part of those days. The difference is that Haiti is an agricultural barren and eroded land, that lacks natural resources, water, mineral riches, and their main resource is a strong and resilient unskilled labor force.
The BIG difference is that Haiti lies a stone throw from US, French, UK possessions and territory.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 11:17 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"The situation is the same as the latest imperial imposition of their will in April 1965, when a democratic revolution (yes democratic), was stopped and reversed by retrograde forces."

It is those same retrograde forces that you ally yourself with to try to impose this unconstitutional decision which is getting the condemnation of the world!




Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 11:18 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
What annoys me the most about imperial politics here, general, isn't only the fact that they want the world to forget that they were the ones to begin the practice of using Haitians as slave labor here in 1916, but also their hypocrisy when railing at the current establishment, when they were the ones to put them in power with their meddling in the civil war. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this show of buyer's remorse.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 11:25 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"They want to have their cake and eat it too with this show of buyer's remorse."


Similar to wealthy elites and their bought and paid for politicians who love Haitian cheap labor but not the side effects!


Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 11:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
"Similar to wealthy elites and their bought and paid for politicians who love Haitian cheap labor but not the side effects!"

No one here is excusing them. In fact, yours truly shares your position as far as Leonel Fernandez and his poisonous legacy is concerned. What we see here, though, is how you only show one side of the picture, while in reality this problem has many godfathers, including the imperial leviathan which you and others here have as their abode.
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 11:30 AM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
josean
Now try to be quiet for a bit, and let adults speak, and go back to playing with sand. I have no illusions and understand that you are a interested and maybe PAID troll advocate, against the DR best interests, and willing to sell his soul to the dark forces.
No one in this exchange has as many hijacking posts as you do, with nothing substantial to share, with the exception of directives to other garbage publications.
I have defended you in the past, when you had been banned, but no more.
PS: I really could are less about lobbying to ban anyone, from this periodical seriously lacking editorial guidance, but a word of advise, the principals at DT are all ears to warnings of toxic persons, abusing DT's liberal posting policies.
Written by: JHCL2016, 27 Oct 2013 11:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, EN PUNTA CANA: Jose H Con Leonel 2016!

The reality is that if this continues "as is" then Dominicans will be over run by Haitians for their high birth rates.

Ex: Puerto Plata, haitian residing illegally in DR with 10 kids and pregnant with triplets... El mari'o se fue pa' Haiti del tiro.


( ';' )
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 11:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
Lautaro
The only visible asset that belongs to Haiti irrevocably, is their strategic position in regards to the US invisible border line, that considers the region as a "security area" of the USA.
If Haiti where situated next to the Malvinas in Argentina, the US and the other nations, with the exception of the UK, would not be that concerned about their economic or political challenges.
Nations do not have "friends", they have INTERESTS.
Containment of the exodus of desperate Haitians to their thriving possessions, is the key to understanding, why the first world powers, are lobbying for unification of DR and Haiti.
The theory does NOT take into account the wishes of proud and nationalistic, Haitians and Dominicans that want to remain citizens of their countries.
The unification solution would only be temporary, as the humungous cultural and social differences
of Haitian and Dominicans emerge, and sooner rather than later, the entire island would (cont)
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 11:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
Become another Somalia and go back to historical roots of being a harbor for pirates, delinquents, and fugitives of justice.
Then the whole island would be an immense carrier of destitute and desperate folks, wanting to exit by any and all means, to better "hunting grounds", to islands close by.
The reasons for citizens to put up, with the drastic and social uprooting of moving to another foreign culture, is basically economic desperation.
Now the big question is this:
Does the Haitian migration bring other social or economic benefits to the DR, other than cheap and resilient unskilled labor?
Before answering this, I would like some feedback from other participants in this exchange, that might want to contribute, with their thoughts.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:10 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"PS: I really could are less about lobbying to ban anyone, from this periodical seriously lacking editorial guidance, but a word of advise, the principals at DT are all ears to warnings of toxic persons, abusing DT's liberal posting policies."

I knew you sooner or later after having your right wing ass whipped would result to your facist mode of adovocating censorship!


Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:20 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Great Unification Conspiracy!


“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

 Joseph Goebbels




Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 12:21 PM
From: United States, New York City
@generoso, unification NEVER. Collaboration, free trade agreements, common currency and dual language education for all, YES. I believe that each side will benefit greatly from exploiting each other resources. Haiti's resources are pretty much virgin at this point and have not been exploited to create a trickle down effect on the population. Believe it or not, Haiti's disorganization and lack of organize government is almost a blessing, let me explain.

Haiti I believe is one of those last places where you have a national strong hold chucking the life out its people. Haiti's resources are pretty much nomadic and there is very way to identify any type of ownership or claiming to land mass. Most of the land in Haiti is still under national control, moreover, under the flag of reconstruction, Haiti's government eminent domain is almost unchallengeable. This conditions under the right direction could allow Haiti for rapid development and base on lessons from across the border, con
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 12:27 PM
From: United States, New York City
in the DR, where in order to achieve a system in which a trickle down system can be created there must be revolution = redistribution which is = to a bloody set of events. There is less chance for the DR's poors to improve their standard of living than those in Haiti.

Now, the problem is how do we put aside our differences and collaborate with HAITI in connecting our efforts to create a more stable environment. We all know that for the most part Dominico-haitian relations have been healthy for the most part and the issue of Haitian invasion has always been an argument used for political gains - hence Pena Gomez = we will never know if this guy could have been the link - the small rich class controls every aspect of the DR, they are the ones that we must worry about.

Finally, the ply of the Dominican's poors is not going to improve with the disappearance of the Haitian problem. This is a social and internal problem that could not be solve by an external issue such as the Haitia
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:27 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.

Mahatma Gandhi


Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 12:32 PM
From: United States, New York City
Haitian problem. We all know that the strangulation of the Dominican masses is the bi-product of big corruption and massive accumulation of resources by a small group of people that have been doing that for decades if not centuries. High levels of poverty existed before the Haitian issues became a problem and it will continue to exist after the Haitian problem disappears.

We all know that historically the Dominican government has shown very little interest in lifting its poors out of poverty. The country has historically benefit the few and allowed them to continue to enrich on the backs of the masses. The Dominican people will soon realized that for more than 70 years, the Dominican ELITE has had them drinking the Haitian issue cool aid as a way to divert from the real issue of their enrichment and exploitation of our most precious resource, our human capital. WE NEED RE-DISTRIBUTION NOW.
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 12:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
josean
By your actions, you are an abuser of free speech, and a model of indecent and unscrupulous behavior. The poster child of the worse final outcome, that a balanced and sane adult should strive for.
In the past, I thought you where nothing but an amusing jester, but now I believe that you have aligned yourself, to lobbying for the dark forces, conspiring against the DR best interests.
As far as "having my right wing ass whipped", you have made your bed, in the forgotten and anonymous cemetery of previous confrontational offenders and trespassers, that incurred in the mistake of posting a challenge. You now take residency in the waste basket of history, and will be rightfully erased and buried, by the mighty powers that motivate me.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:34 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



Boy you certainly have an inflated opinion of yourself!


Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:37 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"A fascist is one whose lust for money or power is combined with such an intensity of intolerance toward those of other races, parties, classes, religions, cultures, regions or nations as to make him ruthless in his use of deceit or violence to attain his ends."


Henry A. Wallace


Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 12:42 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
dagtan
Please continue with your most aware and receptive dissertation.
I am not anti-Haitian, au contraire, I believe that both the DR and Haiti can benefit from increased clarity and collaboration, without hidden agendas.
Poverty, illiteracy, hunger, are our worst enemies. But our ruling classes on both sides of the island, or the "elite" have their bets on continuation of the status quo. Why? because it brings money to their already swollen pockets. The ruling classes of both Haiti and the DR are responsible for the continuing misery, of their populations. The employers of the island, want to decrease their operating costs, by keeping labor costs or "overhead" low, and that is understandable, but not fair.
The stronger and more resilient Haitian manual laborers, displace their Dominican counterparts, that sole aim is to generate more incomes. In Puerto Rico, as an example, the construction industry is mostly ran by Dominicans.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:43 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



"The search for a scapegoat is the easiest of all hunting expeditions."

Dwight D. Eisenhower




Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 12:49 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


I have stated many times that its the colusion of both the Haitian and the Dominican elites that screw both societies i.e. its Always the ECONOMIES STUPID!


Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 1:03 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Cambalache:


youtube.com/watch?v=T0kTiKCC3UI&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Written by: williom, 27 Oct 2013 1:33 PM
From: United States

I see dagtan is just a new representative of josean. The former is certainly welcome as an elaborate old-tymer with a fresh new voice as we're just become too accustomed and (tired) of josean restating the same damn thing over and over again.

Without josean here, this place would be all pointless cheers: "Oh, let's all ride the :-(useful) metro to La Romana Yankee Stadium."

In summary, without all these writings: "It's always the goddamn economies, stupid motherfathers!"
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 1:56 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

Professor generoso I hope you filled your Chill Pills Prescription?


Another Dominican, Dominican Hater!

Writer Rhina Espaillat said DR is exposed "to the shame of the whole world"

“It is of no worth that our writers are read, that our music is liked, or that son of Dominicans becomes a member of President Obama’s cabinet, if the Dominican Republic allows itself to be morally stained with this court ruling incompatible with justice.”

MASSACHUSETTS, United States

Dominican writer, essayist, poet and translator, Rhina Espaillat, living in the United States, wrote a harsh letter to the Dominican Ambassador in Washington, Aníbal de Castro, which questions the ruling of the Constitutional Court because it exposes the country "to the shame of the whole world".

She states that that sentence is disgraceful and unworthy, and rejects it with all her strength, because Dominican citizens, by the fact of having been children of Haitians, are denied citizenship.

continued:
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 2:00 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"But this cannot be! It's an injustice clear and shameful, accomplished through manipulations of the laws of the country, and with impure motives that expose our country to the shame of the whole world,” said the letter, and delivered personally at the Dominican Embassy in Washington.

**** The writer, cousin of the Secretary of Labor of the United States, Tomás Pérez, asked the Ambassador to United States to join her and many other citizens in the claim for justice.****

"I beg that you join all of us who want to undo this ugly legal error, and to do everything possible to defend, not only the human rights of all our compatriots-even those who have Haitian roots-but also the fame of our country, where many people good and compassionate live, of all colors."

continued:

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 2:05 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

Read the full text of the letter at generoso’s hated Yellow Rag before he sends “BICHO” Castillo’s censors out @:

acento.com.do/index.php/news/130893/56/Escritora-Rhina-Espaillat-dice-RD-se-expone-al-oprobio-del-mundo-entero.html




Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 2:48 PM
From: Haiti
"VENGANCE"
Kiskeyaman , I ask you, if a Dominican couple moves to Haiti, legally or not , are their Haitian born children given Haitian citizenship? Yes or no?

Yes, no problem, here the Haitians don't act against the Dominicans but the act of Dominicans against the Dominicans who have descendant of HAITIANS are bad for us. Here we don't forget the past but they don't create the hate in our heart like the DOMINICANS LIKE GUILLERMONA. GUILLERMONA IS A FKER RACIST DOMINICAN. VENGEANCE, YOU FORGET WHAT YOUR ANCESTOR DID TO THE SLAVE FOR MORE THAN 4 CEINTURY. You don't have the right to pick the nationality of somebody who live in a country for more than 4 GENERATIONS. THIS IS A SHAME FOR DR. You do the same like HITLER AND IN THIS PLAY, You will lost a lot of things. NOW A LOT DOMINICANS WHO LIVE IN USA, CANADA are badly see by the other people. MEDINA IS A GREAT IDIOT. this guy are hypocrit, and I think he going to lost the next Election. Yes DR have to protect his border of illeg
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 2:53 PM
From: Haiti
VENGEANCE
But those guys are More Dominicans that a lot of persons among you.
Why don't try to found the problem with the real illegal instead to do the legal become illegal.
DR ACT like a thief, It is a shame to act like a thief.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 3:29 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


“If you are black, get out: The crisis of statelessness in the Dominican Republic"


“The decision by the high court in the Dominican Republic to declare anywhere from 250,000 to 400,000 Dominicans who may have Haitian ancestry "not citizens" with a start date of birth of 1929 is simply appalling.

“Many headlines of stories dealing with this travesty, simply call these people "Haitians" and few point to what is obvious—the role of racial markers and skin color.”

“Follow me below the fold for a closer look.”

youtube.com/watch?v=Ug48o_ULxIE&feature=player_embedded

youtube.com/watch?v=wwzIjRkeiLo&feature=player_embedde

vimeo.com/24540627

dailykos.com/story/2013/10/20/1246815/-If-you-are-black-get-out-The-crisis-of-statelessness-in-the-Dominican-Republic#



Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 3:41 PM
From: Haiti
DAGTAN
I am not agree with you in this point. Dominicans like Haitian, you saw that in DR. a lot of Haitians lost her head in DR all day. You have a lot of Dominicans who hate Haitians. Here in Haiti, never A dominican lost his head.
But here the people become anti Dominican day after day especially after the decision of the bunch of idiot Dominican in the court. I am sure, your country will lost a lot of things after this law will be applied. You know a lot of Haitians don't live well in DR it's for that a lot of go to puerto rico now. The guys you want to kick of in DR are not Haitians, They are more Dominicans than GUILLERMONA, they speak spanish better than GUILLERMONA. They work in DR and they know well DR unlike GUILLERMONA who forget there are a lot OF illegals Dominicans everywhere in the world even In HAITI.
Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 3:41 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
josean the Haitian disguised as Dominican, doing his thing in behalf of his haitian brothers.
Is he inside a trojan horse, to continue Haiti's conquest of the DR?
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 3:46 PM
From: Haiti
DR LAUTAR

Here a lot of HAITIANS TELL that DR stole a lot of earth of HAITI. The earth of HAITI arrive until on the palace of the President of dr.

I think it's true because before, France had the half of the isle.
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 3:46 PM
From: Haiti
DR LAUTAR

Here a lot of HAITIANS TELL that DR stole a lot of earth of HAITI. The earth of HAITI arrive until on the palace of the President of dr.

I think it's true because before, France had the half of the isle.
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 4:05 PM
From: Haiti
GENEROSO
You are a trojan horse in this forum but with most worse effect.
You are a great ignorant, the real problem of Haiti is your elite and your idiot of politician.
They are so corrupt it's for that you are a lot of DOMINICAN Who are illegal everywhere.
DR Is an illusion of Devlopment.
Don't forget that little piti
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:14 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"josean the Haitian disguised as Dominican, doing his thing in behalf of his haitian brothers.
Is he inside a trojan horse, to continue Haiti's conquest of the DR?"


“generoso” what a contradictory name;

…..The Trujillista disguised as a democrat spewing venomous lies, hatred and distortions, upset because he will not be allowed to have his Racist Fascist way! Soon he will blow his head gasket with a… “I can’t have it my way temper tantrum!”


Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 4:18 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
kiskeyaman?
It's true that Dominicans took a lot of "earth" from haitians, that Dominicans need to give it back and dump the "earth" back on top of the Haitians heads, after they bury them, ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ja.
You are not only a dummy but you are laughable. Get a job as a clown in a Haitian circus please.
PS: And take your buddy josean with you!
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:22 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"Written by: josean, 3 Aug 2012 3:59 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

Stop the BI-national Governments Allowed Exploitation and you will stop the Bi-national Illegal Immigration problem; I.e. they Wealthy Haitians who control the Haitian Government allowing the dumping of their poor on DR and the Wealthy Dominicans who control the Dominican Government allowing it to happen so they can have source of cheap slave labor.

It’s the Economies Stupid!


¡Lo demás es triando peitos xenofóbicos a la luna!"

dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2012/8/3/44626/Amnesty-for-Haitians-a-blunder-Immigration-tells-the-UN

Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 4:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
joseano
Trujillista?
You have crossed the line, once again, with your indecent and despicable behavior.
This daily newspaper allows you to write your daily incursions in libel, with your putrid and fetid ruminations, as well as personal attacks on all others that disagree with you.
It is about time that your presence is declared as personna non grata.
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:30 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


As I predicted: There She Blows!

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:38 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



"joseano

Trujillista?

You have crossed the line, once again, with your indecent and despicable behavior."


...but you are free to call me a bad Dominican add anus to my name, and Traitorous Trojan!

Please Spare the act of being offended!


"Written by: josean, 18 Jul 2013 10:30 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


This is the Problem with Elitist Bullies is when they get Hit Back they take the High Moral Ground of indignation!"


Like Yogi Berra would say Deja Vu All Over Again!



dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2013/7/16/48320/Protest-against-undocumented-Haitians-at-2nd-biggest-Dominican-city

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:42 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo."

H. G. Wells


Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 4:55 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"This daily newspaper allows you to write your daily incursions in libel, with your putrid and fetid ruminations, as well as personal attacks on all others that disagree with you.

It is about time that your presence is declared as personna non grata."


Not being able to Bully Me, he tries to subtly pressure and intimidate DT into censorship; a very "BICHO" Castillo type of move!

Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 5:15 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

The problem with Dominican AF®IKANERS is that most of them know they are on the wrong side of human history…… although, some are so stupid they believe their own racist neo-fascist rhetoric.

Ethnic cleansing via civil genocides and pogroms are well documented as failures thought out history.

So to defend the indefensible the must lie and distort and each time they are caught and called out the lies become bigger and exponentially more outrageous, until the reach the point of diminishing return.

So they become even angrier as the see the handwriting on the wall of their impending failure!



Written by: generoso, 27 Oct 2013 5:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic, ****Raise your words, not your voice. Rain grows food, not thunder.****
PS: War of words is over and done with. Your true allegiances have been generously displayed. There is no question in anyone's mind, DR is certainly not your homeland and as you do not fight for her rights, you declare yourself a traitor, if you claim DR nationality.
One thing is to disagree, and another to persistently lobby for the interests of foreign nationals, that have jumped the fence, and are uninvited as well as most unwelcome "guests", in the kitchen table of the DR. They bring nothing to the feast, break all the dishes, and when the bill comes, they hurriedly march to the bathroom, to make the DR scrounge to pay the bill.
It is all about loving the land that your family and friends are from, and that you grew up in. In your case it's all about Haiti. So obviously you despise all things Dominican as well as the DR.
Vaya con Dios!
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 5:33 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Distorting Hyper-Nationalist Macho Man surrenders but not before self-proclaiming himself as the Final Arbiter as to who is a True Dominican!




Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 5:47 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"They bring nothing to the feast, break all the dishes, and when the bill comes, they hurriedly march to the bathroom, to make the DR scrounge to pay the bill."

Take that up with your and Lie-onel's boy Diandino Peña:


“It was Diandino Peña who claimed, without anybody protesting front of the National Pantheon, or opposite the First Cathedral of America, that the Dominican economy would collapse without the Haitians.”

almomento.net/articulo/148019/%C2%A1Fuera-los-haitianos!


Written by: dreadlocks, 27 Oct 2013 6:30 PM
From: United States
Dagtan, you are in fine form today....i like your reference to the issue of creating enmity as a smokescreen..

good stuff. keep on teaching, my brother.
Written by: danny00, 27 Oct 2013 8:22 PM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
Stand up! Don't Stand by!
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 8:32 PM
From: United States, New York City
@josean and generoso, with all due respect I ask that you guys stop the current exchange for the good of the discussion. We must continue to exchange ideas and respect one another. I really hate the idea of calling anyone "Haitiano tapao" just because they state a different point of view. I am proud to say that I try to make objective assessment of what is going and have not allowed myself to be blinded by the sickness of ultra-nationalism. Ultra-nationalism is dangerous and prevent people from looking at things in the big picture, the effects of ultra-nationalism is what have let to this ill-conceived ruling by our courts.

Respect one another and protect the God given right of freedom of speech at all times. it is healthy to see differing views on the same topics and thank God for dissent, because it is from there that all level headed conversations rise.

@Williom have you ever heard of COMMAND OF MESSAGE, - I do not like all over the map no substance people.
Written by: danny00, 27 Oct 2013 8:38 PM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
All I want to know tonight is what does the Tourists Minister think about all of this? another Question for him is "Where the Hell are the Chinese?" ...... He made a statement last week to a private group of investors ( behind closed doors). when asked about the 20 million Chinese Tourists he said.......I see them every where, in my closet, in the building I live in, at the beach, in the supermarket where I Shop and now I see them in my Dreams. (Sleeping with his Wife$$$) any thing to get them over here in Santo Domingo and now our new hot spot "Santiago".
Written by: guillermone, 27 Oct 2013 10:19 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"Dominican writer, essayist, poet and translator, Rhina Espaillat, living in the United States, wrote a harsh letter to the Dominican Ambassador in Washington, Aníbal de Castro, which questions the ruling of the Constitutional Court because it exposes the country "to the shame of the whole world".

Rhina Espaillat is a bilingual American poet. She was born in the Dominican Republic in 1932 and has lived in the United States since 1939. She came to the US when she was 7 years old and is the ripe old age of 81. That means she have been living in the US for the last 74 years and is totally and completely out of touch with the present day Dominican reality. Like her there are many other Dominican Americans who have resided in the US for generations and simply have no clue.
Written by: williom, 27 Oct 2013 10:28 PM
From: United States

q(( @Williom have you ever heard of COMMAND OF MESSAGE, - I do not like all over the map no substance people. ))

dagtan, I hear you. Your messages are well versed and certainly welcome. However, reading all the previous messages for the past couple of years, they were mostly similar to yours and quite a few of them were from josean himself. It's very obvious that the great debaters disappeared, and the ones that are left are just debate-fatigued, are tired of reading the "rants of josean" who has now about 29,000 posts. Meanwhile, only josean, for the most part, is holding onto the DT fort.

The way I see it, it's not fair to read that you come along as an adult debater, and josean as a child troll from someone well-known as "sour, then sweet".

Anyway, carry on... this place needs to be ...revived ;) I'm looking forward to more of your posts.

Written by: Lautaro, 27 Oct 2013 10:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
Agree with you a 1,000% williom. Dag, don't go MIA/AWOL on us again, pretty please.
Written by: guillermone, 27 Oct 2013 10:43 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
double Zero D-

Eres un Baboso............ :-)

Now go fetch some bait..........like a good little fisherman.
Written by: rokete, 28 Oct 2013 1:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
So many senceless comments. The court ruling has to do with a nationality issue due to an overwhelming invasion. Those who condemn us should tke some responsibility and share part of our burden. Why not help Haiti get rid of the leaches in their government. That will surelly stop the from spreading all over the caribean. Today is DR until saturated, tomorow the rest of the caribean basin and North America.
Written by: rokete, 28 Oct 2013 1:38 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
So many senceless comments. The court ruling has to do with a nationality issue due to an overwhelming invasion. Those who condemn us should tke some responsibility and share part of our burden. Why not help Haiti get rid of the leaches in their government. That will surelly stop the from spreading all over the caribean. Today is DR until saturated, tomorow the rest of the caribean basin and North America.
Written by: rokete, 28 Oct 2013 1:46 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Once DR is saturated, destination USA, Turks and Caicos, Bahamas, Caymans, Jamaica, France, Canada, and oh yes Trinidad
Written by: danny00, 28 Oct 2013 6:13 AM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
Looks like I woke my friend up?... You don't get much sleep I see that you live on this site?.. X you still see the Haitians every where?.... Lol.. Like Garcia?..Lol... Jay Leno.
Written by: danny00, 28 Oct 2013 6:40 AM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
MrRokete. I live in the Florida keys, we have 1,000 of Haitians working here. they are in every hotel, Restsurant, supermarket. when I get up to the Miami and Hollywood area's it's the same Haitians are every where. iam not talking about a few of them iam saying they have taken over the lower level jobs. hard rock casino in Hollywood Fl. which is a Hugh hotel and casino its like they have taken over of this business. in case you don't know this about the United States they accept over one million people every year from all over the world. There is no other country on this planet that is even close to this number. and not talking about the Hugh numbers of illegal's including Dominican's that find a way either by Hook or Crook. To get into the states.
Written by: danny00, 28 Oct 2013 6:55 AM
From: United States, Acropolis 114 santo DOMINGO
need to go catch some bait and go make a deposit in one of my secure banks in key west (had a great week)....was looking for MrGuillermone over the week end in key west saw one guy that I thought it may be him this older looking short and a little chubby guy that had a lot of color on his face was wearing a cheap tee shirt made in the RD that said Google--Copy----Paste....it was not him it turned out to be one homeless guy..... Gave him a few Dollars so he would get something to eat I Would have done the same for that Guillermone guy.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 28 Oct 2013 10:49 AM
From: Dominican Republic
This is a very sensitive matter and DR must procede cautiosly in explaining to the world the situation. It is not a racial thing. It never has been. We have millions and millions of black Dominicans who live amongst all kinds of Dominicans and benefit from all the benefits Dominican citizenship offers (including my grandmother from Boca Chica and her entire family). This is a matter of illegal foreigners in DR demanding citizenship period! Our laws clearly state that the children of illegal immigrants regardless of wether they are Black, White, Chinese, Native American etc. are not Dominican citizens due to their illegal status. If a Haitian who has already became a legal resident of the Dominican Republic has children in the Dominican Republic than that child will surely receive the Dominican citizenship. If the USA automatically gives illegal immigrants children born in USA their citizenship that is because it is their constitutional laws and must be respected by all nations.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 28 Oct 2013 10:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
As the world has to accept the USA's and any other sovereign nations constitutional laws, so does it have to respect DR's constitutional laws. We cannot go to France and bound by USA constitutional laws. When we are in France we bound by French Constitutional laws, just to set an example.
Written by: antonioj, 28 Oct 2013 11:01 AM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
@ ojedamaggiolo80

Look for my name in the postings around here, you will see that your argument do not hold water, and your points too simplistic to be relevant. let me know why the great majority of Dominicans are against such ruling...
Written by: guillermone, 28 Oct 2013 11:02 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
They think DR constitutional law is dumb and it should be changed to benefit foreigners. Hey its the American way, the best way, the only way or the highway.
Written by: ojedamaggiolo80, 28 Oct 2013 11:12 AM
From: Dominican Republic
It is not up to a foreigner to decide if our constitutional laws are simplistic or relevant or irrelevant. They are our constitutional laws and as we respect each individual nations constitutional laws ours must and shall also be respected. If Canada or the USA decide tomorrow to amend their constitution it is not up the peole of the island of Jamaica or Trinidad and Tobago or anywhere else in the world to decide upon it. It is up to the citizens of these nations to make that choice. My personal opposition to granting illegal immigrants citizenship is that the DR is a poor nation as it is and cannot grant all Dominican citizens their basic needs nevertheless people from a foreign nation whose responsibility should fall on that nations government not ours. The day DR becomes a so called 1st world nation the discussion may be different. Until then this is where I stand.
Written by: hellborn25, 28 Oct 2013 12:12 PM
From: United States, New Jersey Home of the brave.
The Dominican government pulled this month to counter the high influx of illegal Haitians that have enter the country illegally. eventually they will have to reverse this law because I believe if this Haitians already living, speaking Spanish , and practicing the customs of Dominicans are pretty much Dominicans themselves, so I believe it won't be long until Danilo falls to the pressure of the united states to reverse this law and eventually cave in to the demands.
Written by: josean, 28 Oct 2013 12:37 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


hellborn25,

What do your Mom and Dad think of the ruling?


Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 1:12 PM
From: United States
Why was 1929 the date that was used?
Written by: antonioj, 28 Oct 2013 1:16 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
ojedamaggiolo80,

Your point is well taken, I appreciate it. I will simply remind you that is not black and white issue. I think you are on the wrong side of history, we will speak about it 10 years from now.
Written by: guillermone, 28 Oct 2013 1:36 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"speaking Spanish , and practicing the customs of Dominicans are pretty much Dominicans themselves, so I believe it won't be long until Danilo falls to the pressure of the united states to reverse this law and eventually cave in to the demands."

My friend has been taking French class at the French Alliance since he was 7 years old, he lived in France for 10 years, loves French culture, its food, music and country. He speaks impeccable French probably better then most French, in fact he is more French then most Frenchmen but he was born in a campo of the Cibao. I think he should be given French nationality. I believe France should cave into to those demands.
Written by: Arcangel96, 28 Oct 2013 1:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
ignoranceisbliss,

1929 was the year the Dominican constitution was amended, which added the exception to jus soli. It reads.

"Todas las personas que nacieren en el territorio de la República, con excepción de los hijos legítimos de los extranjeros residentes en la República en representación diplomática o que estén de tránsito en ella."

"All persons born in the territory of the Republic, with the exception of the legitimate children of foreigners residing in the Republic in a diplomatic mission or those in transit within it."

Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 1:42 PM
From: United States
Gui,

Please stop posting nonsense. The point is France wouldn't write a law 84 years later saying his great grandkids are stripped of French citizenship. That's wrong and illegal based on international law. Let people like Dagtan and LAutaro post and go sit in a corner.
Written by: josean, 28 Oct 2013 3:37 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Putting the Dominican AF®IKANERS in their place and Setting the Know-Nothings Straight!


"Minou Tavárez Mirabal said that the ruling is an embarrassment that some sectors want to convert into a matter of internal policy that contains "a kind of historical revenge"


"Minou: It is not true that the ruliing of the TC positions "patriots" against "unpatriotic"


"The article 74 of the Constitution of the 2010 obliges the State to comply with conventions and treaties," warns the legislator


SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic.- The Deputy Minou Tavarez Mirabal rejected that ruling 168 of the Constitutional Court of the Dominican Republic, which deprives the Dominican citizenship to children born of undocumented aliens from 1929 to date is a matter of patriotism as its defenders argue.

Read the rest at that "Beacon of Liberty:"

acento.com.do/index.php/news/131975/56/Minou-No-es-cierto-que-el-fallo-del-TC-enfrente-a-patriotas-contra-antipatriotas.html





Written by: guillermone, 28 Oct 2013 3:54 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Hey Ignorance -"Let people like Dagtan and LAutaro post and go sit in a corner."

I do not think you understood my post. But that's ok, you can come sit in the corner with me.
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 4:28 PM
From: United States
gui,

your sarcasm comes off idiotic. How can you go back 84 years and claim these people are stateless. Makes no sense. I won't go into the workers being invited because that's not the discussion. This ruling in my opinion is wrong.
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 28 Oct 2013 6:29 PM
From: Haiti
Générosa
You are a great clown but you are not funny. You are a big idiot of the forum. I think you win the price of the most idiot of this forum. I Know you hate all Who are black not only Haitians people Who don t Know your miserable existence. Once again, of you are so proud to be Dominican What do you do with ur ass in USA? The true Dominican live in Dr, And dont understand How a Guy like you Who don ´t see Dr for 10 years ago CAN Come here to throw any crap like yourself. You have to kill yourself, maricone.
Written by: guillermone, 28 Oct 2013 8:29 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Hey ignorant-How are the hell are'ya?

"your sarcasm comes off idiotic. How can you go back 84 years and claim these people are stateless. Makes no sense. .......This ruling in my opinion is wrong."

I thought my sarcasm was kinda funny myself, but hey you have a right to an opinion, but thanks God and Cardinal Nicky what you think does not matter but it does adds color to the thread. Don't you think?

Anyway, on a serious note, (I can be serious you know) No need to be so uptight, just relax and laugh. Now going back to our original argument with regards to your opinion about going back 84 years, all I can say is one thing, no one is being denationalized or "stateless" after 84 years, because you can only speak of denationalization when you are taking something that the person already had. No one gave them the legal right to be Dominicans in the first place, they just simply assumed it as an after thought, and you know what happens when you assume. You make an ASS of U and ME.
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 8:48 PM
From: United States
Gui,

84 years. Common sense should prevail. Just because a couple of your socalled right wing nationalist voted this into law doesn't make it just. Let's see how this plays out.
Written by: guillermone, 28 Oct 2013 9:04 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"Just because a couple of your socalled right wing nationalist voted this into law doesn't make it just. Let's see how this plays out."

Nobody said it was fair, many laws are not, but who said life was fair. But I do agree, that some concessions needs to be made for those who over the years basically became "defacto Dominicans." But what many fail to admit and understand that the DR has the right to fight like a cornered animal and prepare for a major diplomatic battle to defend its rights as a sovereign state.
Written by: rokete, 29 Oct 2013 1:22 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Stop braking the law asswhole. If you want to be a Quisqueya citizen.
Written by: rokete, 29 Oct 2013 1:22 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Stop braking the law asswhole. If you want to be a Quisqueya citizen.
Written by: rokete, 29 Oct 2013 1:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Get legal, or get paranoic and doported to Trinidad piti.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 2:43 PM
From: United States, NYC
The sh*t that burns me is that the DR could have established a deportation program looong time ago and at the same time prevented more illegals ...but the excuse was international pressure ....but you deprive individuals citizenship using a BS loophole and didn't think of international backlash?....SUSPICIOUS ???? I wish they would severe all ties .
Written by: josean, 29 Oct 2013 3:28 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

kmnupe,

Precisely!

No one is saying that any country in the world doesn’t have the sovereign right to defend its borders from illegal entries or to prosecute and deport those who have enter their national boundaries without permission or stayed beyond the permission granted.

What more and more people every day are in up roar about is the DENATIONALIZATION of those born on Dominican soil through no fault of their own!


Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 3:58 PM
From: United States, NYC
*
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 4:08 PM
From: United States, NYC
*
Written by: guillermone, 29 Oct 2013 4:43 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
The sh*t that burns me is that the DR could have established a deportation program looong time ago and at the same time prevented more illegals ...but the excuse was international pressure ....but you deprive individuals citizenship using a BS loophole and didn't think of international backlash?....SUSPICIOUS ???? I wish they would severe all ties.

A very good point and I did not think of that and I agree with you, why did they not think of that sooner ? But the point now is that you can't cry over spilt milk.............should have, could have and would have just simply wont help. I think what they are trying to do now is play catch-up, do what should have been done decades ago, and now want to a quick fix to a problem that probably has no real solution.

I have always heard a saying that Dominicans won't put a lock on their door unless and until there house get burglarized. I think it is perhaps our character flaw to procrastinate, always wait for the last minute.
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 5:06 PM
From: United States, NYC
When I tell Dominicans that some local businesses have owners on both sides , they are stumped . Helados Bon ...Caribe tours and construction companies have their bi-national operators .

The Haïtian and Dominican elite have a centuries-old marriage ...their children play together ....sometimes , they look alike ...the concept of nation is for the everyday lame ...not only that they have police and soldiers doing their work , they have also convinced the average citizen that we are one and the same .


Que lastima

Written by: hellborn25, 29 Oct 2013 6:02 PM
From: United States, New Jersey Home of the brave.
Josean They would probable agree with me,although I never asked them about it?
Written by: josean, 29 Oct 2013 6:49 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Ok, I wish them good health!



Written by: Arcangel96, 29 Oct 2013 7:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

To say that the Dominican republic unilaterally could have prevented the issue of illegal Haitian immigration is a little disingenuous. Every time deportations have been carried out in DR, we have been accused of racist and xenophobic. That if we only accepted our African heritage, instead of allegedly embracing solely our so called European heritage, then somehow deportation would not take place. It also ignores the levels of poverty in Haiti, where 80% of Haitian lives under the poverty line (with 40% unemployment), and that many venture illegally through the porous border, regardless of a promise of a job or not. The sentencing might have been draconian but the status quo is also unsustainable.
Written by: PORNUESTRAPATRIA, 29 Oct 2013 10:48 PM
From: United States
Trinidad y Tobago!!! guao... quien carajo es Trinidad y Tobago.
Trinidad and Tobago? is it the country in the Caribbean with about 5, 00 peoples, who care about Trinidad and Tobago?
Written by: rokete, 29 Oct 2013 11:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
As you inherit genes or property, you also inherit legal status based on the law. People also inherit their parents legal status based on the law. The law may or may not be just for some but it has to be obeyed by everyone. The law IRREVOCABILE!!!!
Written by: rokete, 29 Oct 2013 11:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Do you capito ......JOSEANO!!!!!
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 11:38 PM
From: United States, NYC
ARCANGEL ...Please stick to my points ...there could have been more deportations if the state wanted it...let that marinate ...
Having uncouth soldiers abusing people wasn't productive ...

But, if it's about the country's image , how does this ruling work ?

If no one has answers , please tell me so ...I happen to be for keeping Haitians in Haiti
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 12:01 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"The law IRREVOCABILE!!!!"

Hitler also claimed the Third Reich would last a 1,000 years!

"Nazi Germany, the state commonly known as the Third Reich, which lasted from the Machtergreifung in 1933 to the End of World War II in Europe in 1945."


He was just a Little off, by about 988 years!


Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 1:40 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Lame !!!! JOSEANO!!! However one thing is certain, you are headed for the border with the rest of your stateless freaks......BACK TO TH HE KILOMBO ...............O
IRREVOCABILE!!!!!
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 1:44 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Lame"........ yet you are compelled to respond with your idiocy at 1:40 AM!




Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:05 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean, 27 Oct 2013 11:13 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Great Unification Conspiracy!

A member of the Black Helicopter Crowd has arrived!
##

Haitian i have a WORD for you to learn and study, called KOSOVO...after you learn that one learn This one, BALCANIZATION...these are not OPINIONS, these are FACTS that happened Before the eyes of everyone posting on this place unless you were under a rock on the previous century, lets see what you can come up with after those
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:10 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: dagtan, 27 Oct 2013 10:09 AM
From: United States, New York City
@ Dr. Lautaro, thank you again for coming out and providing us with your great knowledge. I needed you to throw in that lifeline for airgordo, just to help him out a little in understanding how confusing and complicated this issue really is. As I said before, it will take a few decades to get it done cleanly and it will take a tremendous amount of effort on the DR government to start listening to the intelligentsia of the country and not the xenophobes/black helicopter groups.
##

JUST for the record ALL Lautaro wrote and that you seem so eager for me to read I ALREADY KNEW years ago...I thought i wrote on Plain ENGLISH, Obviously you STILL don't get it do you?..
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:29 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: KISKEYAMAN, 27 Oct 2013 2:48 PM
From: Haiti
##

JUST ANSWER the God dam Question!! But you CAN'T can you? here is WHY you will not answer and I WILL answer for you, NO, the child is NOT Haitian EVEN IF THE PARENTS ARE LEGALLY in HAITI!! so you and your constitution ARE EVEN WORST than the very thing YOU and the rest of Usual Bullsh!tters CRITICIZE, yet i don't see ANY of you Critizicing that!!

The BIG DIFFERENCE is that the Vast majority of WE the people that support DOMINICAN REPUBLIC do not INTERFERE with somedoy else's Laws and constitution!! BIG F@CKING DIFFERENCE!
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:32 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: kmnupe, 29 Oct 2013 5:06 PM
From: United States, NYC
When I tell Dominicans that some local businesses have owners on both sides , they are stumped . Helados Bon ...Caribe tours and construction companies have their bi-national operators .

The Haïtian and Dominican elite have a centuries-old marriage ...their children play together ....sometimes , they look alike ...the concept of nation is for the everyday lame ...not only that they have police and soldiers doing their work , they have also convinced the average citizen that we are one and the same .

Que lastima
##

They might act on the same way, but is NOT TRUE that their children play together, etc. etc. that NEVER happened not even in time of the Haitian Invasion+Occupation
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:36 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean, 29 Oct 2013 3:28 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

kmnupe,

Precisely!

No one is saying that any country in the world doesn’t have the sovereign right to defend its borders from illegal entries or to prosecute and deport those who have enter their national boundaries without permission or stayed beyond the permission granted.

What more and more people every day are in up roar about is the DENATIONALIZATION of those born on Dominican soil through no fault of their own!
##

ANOTHER of your Lies straight from your Haitian masters...your Policy es OPEN BORDERS and sing Kumbaya Until there is not one soul on the west...Nice BUT YOU AND YOUR BUNCH ALREADY TRIED THAT for 22 Years, don't you remember??
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:41 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 8:48 PM
From: United States
Gui,

84 years. Common sense should prevail. Just because a couple of your socalled right wing nationalist voted this into law doesn't make it just. Let's see how this plays out.
##

IT DOES NOT HAVE to be Nice, Pretty or even more, IT JUST HAS TO BE LEGAL...do you want an irrefutable Example of this? an EVICTION NOTICE to a widow with 6 children and no money to feed them...can you see the POINT of this example?

YOU can say is not Humanitarian (which i would agree to SOME DEGREE and in some cases), what you can NOT say is that is Illegal.
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:44 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 28 Oct 2013 1:42 PM
From: United States
Gui,

Please stop posting nonsense. The point is France wouldn't write a law 84 years later saying his great grandkids are stripped of French citizenship. That's wrong and illegal based on international law. Let people like Dagtan and LAutaro post and go sit in a corner.
##

SO how did you come to the CONCLUSION that these people LOST their citizenship?? SHOW ME please WHICH article of the sentence actually strips these people of something they NEVER HAD on the first place? i Will sit and wait for your response...
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 11:49 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"SHOW ME please WHICH article of the sentence actually strips these people of something they NEVER HAD."

No.........instead you show me proof that these people were legal Dominican citizens in the first place or did they just assumed that they were?

This is almost like the adopted child, whose paper work was improperly prepared and was raised by the same family since infancy. Unfortunately, not only did he later found out that his parents were not really family but also that the adoption was done illegally. He would be naturally very disappointed and I can understand why. He is being hurt because adults did things incorrectly and years later he has to pay the consequences for something that was not his fault. He finds himself both in a legal dilemma and emotionally distraught to learn his mother and father are not really his parents. Not a good feeling, and certainly a bad situation, but most definitely an unfortunate reality.
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 11:54 AM
From: Dominican Republic
That is what i'm saying...they were NEVER citizens as judged by the supreme court on 2005 and ratified on this latest ruling.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 12:05 PM
From: United States, NYC
Airgodo ....I won't debate your views and opinions because I already made it clear that ties should be severed.

I say this respectfully ...when you can't disprove what someone is saying , it's best to start your sentence with "in my opinion "...you have NO idea who I am and cannot speak of my experiences .
The Dominican and Haïtian elite have been intermarrying for ages ...That Haïtian beauty queen that a lot of you love so much has 2 Haitïan parents ...1 Dominican stepmother ...do the math

This didn't start yesterday ...I know tons of them ...peas in a pod . My contacts can teach you history from over 70 yrs ago ...Dominicans used to hang out near my father's house 40 yrs ago during carnival in PAP ...I'm not internet-made. The Alou Brothers (?) baseball players , Charlemagne Peralte ....etc...
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 12:31 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

"The Dominican and Haïtian elite have been intermarrying for ages ..."

This is very true, one example of this is the well known art dealers in the DR, the Nader family. They are of Lebanese ancestry originally from Haiti who later migrated and intermarried with native Dominicans. There are many more like these.
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Oct 2013 12:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
The Najri family is another example, gui, as well as the Despradel.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 12:45 PM
From: United States, NYC
Guillermone ...I made my points to reiterate that Gourdes and Pesos are the elite's nationality . They don't wave flags but instead use their compatriots as pawns ...well-orchestrated...they give 2 sh*ts who died in Moca, Dajabon wherever ...meanwhile the Island is their paradise .

If they cared so much , why are there children of Haïtians in the elite presidential guard ? Why do they send their precious children to PUCMM (?) UASD ? Why are Dominican companies with major contracts in Haïti .

Who's the ENEMY ?
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 12:52 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Who's the ENEMY ?

Good point............

Profits have no loyalties or patriotism. Its the bottom line that counts.
And yes they could care less about anybody, they only answer to their accountants and CPA's
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 12:56 PM
From: United States, NYC
Why do you think Michel Martelly had all those DR contacts ...He's just a vagabond Black sheep of a Bourgeois family ...allegations of a bastard Dominican son?

That's what we are dealing with ...
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 1:03 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"That's what we are dealing with ..."

You have a very clear perspective of the root cause of many of the ills found within the Island of Hispaniola and all of it can probably be traced back directly to both the Dominican and Haitian elite.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 1:47 PM
From: United States, NYC
I just feel bad for my compatriots who have to live as if unwanted in either corner of a land where they were born ...it's our fault.

If I treat my Brother like crap in front of people ...they will feel justified in doing so themselves .

The powers that be in DR are cooking something...but the final wish is to probably have the 2 groups decimate each other and remark on how uneducated and savage we are.

Written by: Arcangel96, 30 Oct 2013 1:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

Yes! there could have been more deportations. But any attempt of deportation has always been met with more calls of xenophobia and racism, not so much in how the deportations were carried, but with the deportation itself. This sentencing, again draconian as it is, is perhaps the direct result of many people willfully, or by ignorance, disregarding the laws in DR. If someone wants to become a national or resident of any country, then you must follow whatever process they have in place. This is why we are we, where we at today.


Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 1:58 PM
From: United States, NYC
Again Arcangel ...we're talking about the obvious

There has been many deportations with no fanfare ...the ones that cause the most stir are when soldiers and police go overboard ...destroying papers ...stealing belongings ...beatings ...bribes etc...

In Haïti , there's no popular movement amongst the population to prevent deportations ...all that is media propaganda on both sides and NGOs who offer no permanent solution.

My curiosity is why now ? why this group ? Many in this group are straight Dominican. A lot are making efforts ...
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:12 PM
From: United States, NYC
One more thing ...How can several governments be so callous as to not be pro-active in preventing a situation that was inevitable ...it's outrageous to allow a large group of people to wallow in your shores without a clearly defined plan of action .

I have to be honest , I'm astonished on how many of your compatriots are applauding this ...being that you are one of the largest immigrant group in many countries AND multiplying ...many back home depend on resources of the emigrees ...last but not least ...Dominicans are plagued by many ills of society ...my circle is very productive ...however reading a lot of the commentaries on-line from here and abroad , you would think that the mirror is not used much ...I WISH US WELL .
Written by: Lautaro, 30 Oct 2013 2:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Bring DT Forum Back
I'd put my money on it being a vendetta for the chickens and eggs issue.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:25 PM
From: United States, NYC
Yep ...my cousin is visiting from Haïti and he told me the same thing and he also talked about elections and weakening the potential future voting power of that group.

I can't see the solution ...what's the next move ?!?!
Written by: Arcangel96, 30 Oct 2013 2:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

It doesn't seem to be obvious enough. How many times on these forums have we argue about what "jus soli" is and how DR considers the wording "in-transit" to apply to any illegal immigrants, and still people argue against this. Just because a person has avoided the consequences of violating a law, it does not mean necessarily that a Government does not want to enforce it.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:48 PM
From: United States, NYC
ARCANGEL ...I know the semantics

You are throwing me in a pile of who said what ...I have neither the problem tocomprehend nor break things down.

The "in transit " for infinity loophole is bull caca and anyone with an ounce of diplomacy and integrity cannot argue to its merits ...not trying to offend ...but I presume that I'm dealing with decent intelligent people .

I can be in that status for a year ...give and take ...but the moment that I am allowed to remain for an extended period , the state needs to clarify where I stand vis a vis my services and my rights ...to NOT do that ...smacks of abuse and exploitation ...what you want and receive for your kind ..you should want for others ...AGAIN , I was an advocate for poor immigrants for 7yrs ...I will never waver from these principles ...I support dignified treatment of EVERYONEseeking a misery -free life .
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:56 PM
From: United States, NYC
The DR FKED UP ...that should have been dealt with eons ago ...to come out in the world arena and do this is very short-sighted .

The DR has had a lot of assistance , aid, investments from the world community and this is a grave decision especially when the world is getting smaller and human abuses are more frequent ...IMO
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 3:29 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Because of censorship you will have to Google......“Bernardo Vega: RD tiene el compromiso moral con haitianos; fue quien los trajo y no los documentó”

…and Watch the video as to How we got Here and the current reason for the “Why Now “

"Bernardo Vega: RD has a moral responsibility to Haitians; it was the Dominican state that brought them and did not document them"

"SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic.-The economist and historian Bernardo Vega analyzes the situation of Haitians in the country since the first world war until our times."


Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
But i could care less what they do and don't...una nota al margen...
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic
#
Written by: kmnupe
From: United States, NYC
Airgodo ....I won't debate your views and opinions because I already made it clear that ties should be severed.

I say this respectfully ...when you can't disprove what someone is saying , it's best to start your sentence with "in my opinion "...you have NO idea who I am and cannot speak of my experiences .
The Dominican and Haïtian elite have been intermarrying for ages ...That Haïtian beauty queen that a lot of you love so much has 2 Haitïan parents ...1 Dominican stepmother ...do the math

This didn't start yesterday ...I know tons of them ...peas in a pod . My contacts can teach you history from over 70 yrs ago ...Dominicans used to hang out near my father's house 40 yrs ago during carnival in PAP ...I'm not internet-made. The Alou Brothers (?) baseball players , Charlemagne Peralte ....etc..
##

You don't know Who i am either...Elite here on this country is VERY SMALL, less than 10 families and NO they don't play together..
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 3:29 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Because of censorship you will have to Google......“Bernardo Vega: RD tiene el compromiso moral con haitianos; fue quien los trajo y no los documentó”

…and Watch the video as to How we got Here and the current reason for the “Why Now “

"Bernardo Vega: RD has a moral responsibility to Haitians; it was the Dominican state that brought them and did not document them"

"SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic.-The economist and historian Bernardo Vega analyzes the situation of Haitians in the country since the first world war until our times."
##

SO YOU FINALLY are beginning to UNDERSTAND you will get NOTHING on the legal side, and now want to go the humanitarian way...YOU should have begun pushing your agenda that way from the begining
Written by: Arcangel96, 30 Oct 2013 3:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

My friend, if you are illegally residing in any country and the person in question does not seek to resolve his/her immigration status, the state does not need to revisit your status, because you are still considered and illegal immigrant regardless of the number of years in that country.
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: kmnupe,
From: United States, NYC
ARCANGEL ...I know the semantics

You are throwing me in a pile of who said what ...I have neither the problem tocomprehend nor break things down.

The "in transit " for infinity loophole is bull caca and anyone with an ounce of diplomacy and integrity cannot argue to its merits ...not trying to offend ...but I presume that I'm dealing with decent intelligent people .

I can be in that status for a year ...give and take ...but the moment that I am allowed to remain for an extended period , the state needs to clarify where I stand vis a vis my services and my rights ...to NOT do that ...smacks of abuse and exploitation ...what you want and receive for your kind ..you should want for others ...AGAIN , I was an advocate for poor immigrants for 7yrs ...I will never waver from these principles ...I support dignified treatment of EVERYONEseeking a misery -free life .
##

and WHAT PROOF can you provide that you are allowed to remain
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:51 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: Arcangel96, 30 Oct 2013 3:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

My friend, if you are illegally residing in any country and the person in question does not seek to resolve his/her immigration status, the state does not need to revisit your status, because you are still considered and illegal immigrant regardless of the number of years in that country.
##

He won't argue that because that simply flushes his argument...
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:12 PM
From: United States, NYC
One more thing ...How can several governments be so callous as to not be pro-active in preventing a situation that was inevitable ...it's outrageous to allow a large group of people to wallow in your shores without a clearly defined plan of action .

I have to be honest , I'm astonished on how many of your compatriots are applauding this ...being that you are one of the largest immigrant group in many countries AND multiplying ...many back home depend on resources of the emigrees ...last but not least ...Dominicans are plagued by many ills of society ...my circle is very productive ...however reading a lot of the commentaries on-line from here and abroad , you would think that the mirror is not used much ...I WISH US WELL
#

A MIRROR for WHAT?? tell that to the offspring of Dominicans born in EUROPE, like Switzerland...do you see ANY here complaining they don't get citizenship?
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 3:57 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 12:56 PM
From: United States, NYC
Why do you think Michel Martelly had all those DR contacts ...He's just a vagabond Black sheep of a Bourgeois family ...allegations of a bastard Dominican son?

That's what we are dealing with ...
##

Because HE GOT PAID BIG for that, don't you watch Nuria Piera???
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 4:01 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"MIRROR for WHAT?? tell that to the offspring of Dominicans born in EUROPE, like Switzerland...do you see ANY here complaining they don't get citizenship?

My uncle and his wife lived in Europe for years while he was employed by a multi-national corporation.
They had 3 different children born in 3 different countries and not one of them was able to get European citizenship. All of them hold Dominican passports except for one who was born in Argentina which they later gave up because of the hassles encountered when renewing the passport.
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 4:01 PM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 2:56 PM
From: United States, NYC
The DR FKED UP ...that should have been dealt with eons ago ...to come out in the world arena and do this is very short-sighted .

The DR has had a lot of assistance , aid, investments from the world community and this is a grave decision especially when the world is getting smaller and human abuses are more frequent ...IMO
##

Lets break down your opinion, FIRST you write that this should have been dealt with lots of time ago, THEN you say that this is a Grave decision...so according to YOU, what is to be done on This problem? OPEN BORDERS and sing Kumbaya holding hands??
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 4:03 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"..what is to be done on This problem? OPEN BORDERS and sing Kumbaya holding hands??"

EXACTLY !!!!

That's the ticket!

Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 4:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: guillermone, 30 Oct 2013 4:01 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"MIRROR for WHAT?? tell that to the offspring of Dominicans born in EUROPE, like Switzerland...do you see ANY here complaining they don't get citizenship?

My uncle and his wife lived in Europe for years while he was employed by a multi-national corporation.
They had 3 different children born in 3 different countries and not one of them was able to get European citizenship. All of them hold Dominican passports except for one who was born in Argentina which they later gave up because of the hassles of renewing their passports.
#
Thank YOU! I REST MY CASE!! is funny how people post this kind of stuff, CHANTAJE in good spanish, and is even FUNNIER because if a LEGAL DOMINICAN has Offspring IN HAITI, they are NOT Haitian!! ahhh but that one is NOT criticized! because the AGENDA here is to throw sh!t to the DR, as Much as Possible!!
Written by: airgordo, 30 Oct 2013 4:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic
latest poll suggest that OVER 80% of the DOminican Population IN DOMINICAN REPUBLIC supports the court ruling...NOW for the Haitian Employees that work so hard on this site, i can tell you that Number was not even close to 60% BEFORE the HAITIAN DIPLOMACY and mercenaries and people like you begun to attack the Dominican Republic INTERNATIONALLY, specially those trips to the CARICOM by the Haitian secretary of state....THAT is what you get when you attack one of the sacred ideals of people, THEIR COUNTRY... you UNITE your enemy, should you have been familiar with Sun Tzu, that support would have been much lower....
Thank YOU anyway...
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 4:51 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Majorities can been wrong........just ask the German Jews!



Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:08 PM
From: United States



But in democracy majority rules!


Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))

AIRGORDO, kudos to you !!!!!

I take my hat off to you, and give the up most respect to you. I had been away from the forum for a while due to the overwhelming trolleys like Josean, gillermone, danny, dreadlocks, Roystone and the rest of those Haitians, and their advocates, promulgating lies about our country (DR), and its noble people.

Your insight is inspiring, and with the limited free time I have, will be back often to the forum to defend what is rightfully ours, and the heritage that was passed down to us by our forefather.

It is our turn now as a generation to defend to the end, our home land (from those who want to hurt our people under the fake banner of racism and human rights), our land, and the legacy of our cultural ways.
Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Our courts desition is based on the concensus. Democracy is based on the concensus.

IRREVOCABILE !!!!!!!
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:30 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:08 PM
From: United States



But in democracy majority rules!"



That still doesn't mean they can't be wrong, right?




Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:34 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Our courts desition is based on the concensus. Democracy is based on the concensus.

IRREVOCABILE !!!!!!!"


The majority could arrive at the wrong consensus, right?


PS

The only thing IRREVOCABLE is DEATH!


Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Justice is divine. However God left laws for us to be governed by them. We humans follow suite, making laws to be obeyed by everyone including illegals.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:42 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



OK! Jerry Farwell save it for the pulpit on Sunday, but what does that have to do the Price of Tea in China?


PS


The Dominicans of Haitians Ancestry were not illegals until the NAZI Court made them so on Sept. 23rd!



Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
They inherited their illegality. Same as hereditary genes facial features and property. They inherited their status based on the law. It is up to their country of legal origin to accept them as their own. Basically Haiti which is what you are obviously defending. Under the fake banner of racism and human rights.
Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:44 PM
From: United States
"That still doesn't mean they can't be wrong, right?"

No, but the minority has to suck it up.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:48 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:44 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
The inherited their illegality."


That will not stand in ANY international Court, F. Lee Bailey!






Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
They inherited their illegality. Same as hereditary genes facial features and property. They inherited their status based on the law. It is up to their country of legal origin to accept them as their own.

Basically Haiti which is what you are obviously defending. Under the fake banner of racism and human rights.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:51 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:44 PM
From: United States
"That still doesn't mean they can't be wrong, right?"

No, but the minority has to suck it up.


Remember they are a minority in DR (and I am not to sure about that) but in any event the "Majority" of World Opinion and "Consensus" is gathering Against Us!



Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
The international cort certainly undertand Jus Solis, dont they??
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:54 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Basically Haiti which is what you are obviously defending."


That is your sad distorted perception, what I am defending is Equal Justice and the Rule of Law to be applied Fairly to ALL!

Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:55 PM
From: United States
By "World" you mean Caricom? jajajajaja come on man.

Remember the "World" has no say in our territory. The campaign against DR made a big mistake by misinforming about the ruling, i.e. claiming "mass deportations", etc... which made them lose credibility. And now with the campaign abroad whatever damage was done it's being taken care of as we speak.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:56 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



"The international cort certainly undertand Jus Solis, dont they??"


Yes, and they Also understand that prior to Sept 23 they were Dominican Nationals!


Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 6:02 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
You are contradicting yourself JOSEAN.

Like I said before Justice is divine. No man is to bring justice apon other men.
And the rule of law has already been established by the Conttutional Court,of a sovereighn nation. You are simply defying the rule of law.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 6:02 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Remember the "World" has no say in our territory."


Wait and see!

Even the Mighty United States was prevented from Bombing Syria!


You are living in time Warp if you think that International Opinion does influence national policies!

The North Koreans even try to protect their international image!



Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 6:03 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"You are contradicting yourself JOSEAN."

Please point out the contradiction!


Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 6:06 PM
From: United States
"You are living in time Warp if you think that International Opinion does influence national policies!"

I never said they have no influence but it's absurd to think the world will stop doing business with us because of this. The $ speaks louder than anything else. And the reality is the world doesn't care about the Haitians, and much less about the Dominicans of Haitian descent and the very few that do will be shuttered by the regularization plan.
Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 6:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Josean: "Yes, and they Also understand that prior to Sept 23 the were Dominican Nationals!"

The contitutional law goes back to 1929 ......Joseano
Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 6:16 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
"You are contradicting yourself JOSEAN."

"Please point out the contradiction!"

You are clamoring for the rule of law.

Nevertheless, the rule of law has already been established by the Conttutional Court, of a sovereighn nation.

You are simply defying the rule of law.
Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 6:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
You are clamoring for cake and when you get it, then rejecting it because you don't like the filling.
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 6:29 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



It is the NAZI court that has viloated the rule of law by the denationalizing and going retroactve!



Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 6:30 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"I never said they have no influence but it's absurd to think the world will stop doing business with us because of this."


Don't count on it!




Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 9:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
You and the rest of your. Conspiring comrades are the only ones counting on it. JOSEANO. The world larger than you think.
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 10:08 PM
From: United States, NYC
AIRGODO ...YOU ARE TOO EMOTIONAL ...

NOWHERE did I dictate what the DR should do...I'm looking for answers myself ...When I said F-ed up , I mean that it should have been dealt with a looong time ago. I THOUGHT THAT I WAS PRETTY CLEAR...AND If you didn't understand my mirror analogy ...please re-read that sentence ; It has NOTHING to do with citizenship nor illegals .

I'm very disappointed with your simplistic responses . I throw you all this meat and NADA .Thank you for the discourse though . NO OFFENSE :-).
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 11:51 PM
From: United States, NYC
ARCANGEL ...Thank you for the feedback

Kool moniker ...by the way ;-)
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 11:57 PM
From: United States, NYC
I have a question ....Why is there a need to denationalize a group of people that shouldn't be citizens or should have never been thought of or think themselves as such in the first place?...isn't that just a waste of ink?

DEPORT THEM ALL OR THROW THEM IN THE FKEN OCEAN
Written by: guillermone, 31 Oct 2013 9:57 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"DEPORT THEM ALL OR THROW THEM IN THE FKEN OCEAN"

I wish it were that easy.
Written by: kmnupe, 31 Oct 2013 10:09 AM
From: United States, NYC
It is ....if you have the balls :-)...

PEACE
Written by: kmnupe, 31 Oct 2013 10:13 AM
From: United States, NYC
GUILLERMONE ...I reviewed the posts. I just realized that it was you that didn't get my mirror analogy .


No biggie .
Written by: guillermone, 31 Oct 2013 10:50 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"GUILLERMONE ...I reviewed the posts. I just realized that it was you that didn't get my mirror analogy."

It was me?

Well, I stop looking into mirrors a long time ago. Anyway, about that post, we are already too far down the line with posts and I am not going back to read and review them. And I agree, I don't think its really all that important, but thanks for pointing it out anyway. If I have time might just take a peek. I just hope the reflection wont hurt my eyes.
Written by: kmnupe, 31 Oct 2013 11:01 AM
From: United States, NYC
Nah ...you appear to be coherent about affairs of your country .

I come here strictly to politick and get perspective on decisions made in DR.

I'm glad that you haven't put me in a pile with other posters .
My arguments are different . I want Haïti to get herself together and wish that we can try a trial separation . Haïti for Haïtians

Written by: Arcangel96, 31 Oct 2013 3:17 PM
From: Dominican Republic
kmnupe,

Thanks. I'm not sure if the following post was directed towards me...but here I go. In my opinion, I think that at the end of the day, what this ruling will force the Dominican Government to do, is to get "the house in order". Also, I think the date (1929) is controversial because of the potential number of affected individuals, which we do not know yet. To put it in perspective, the 1935 census counted 52,657 Haitian immigrants. In 1950, under Rafael. L. Trujillo, the bracero population was around 23,157. However, must of them were escorted back to Haiti after each "zafra". The years following Trujillo's era, in 1960's, there was a decline in the economy of DR, that translated in less braceros for the sugar mills. Moreover, the improvement in the Haitian economy of the 1970's contributed reducing the numbers of Haitians in DR. From the 1980's and on, in my opinion, is where most of the problems and grey areas will come in.

source: analisis_sociodemografico_Batey
Written by: josean, 31 Oct 2013 3:28 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Written by: EDITOR, 29 Oct 2013 9:33 AM
From: Dominican Republic

Josean, and other posters, please don't use links, they could bring about technial and legal problems for DT.

Thank you for your understanding."


Written by: antonioj, 31 Oct 2013 3:34 PM
From: Canada, Ottawa.. Bring the Forum back
@arc you have delivered again, there is new article DT about the constitutional court just clarifying their rulings, I am anxious to know your take, Lautaro., Gui, zooma
Written by: kmnupe, 31 Oct 2013 8:07 PM
From: United States, NYC
Thanks for the feedback...
Written by: airgordo, 1 Nov 2013 10:47 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: rokete, 30 Oct 2013 5:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
Our courts desition is based on the concensus. Democracy is based on the concensus.

IRREVOCABILE !!!!!!!
##

I Agree, and that ruling came by an OVERWHELMING majority! , i believe it was 11-2...
Written by: airgordo, 1 Nov 2013 10:55 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

OK! Jerry Farwell save it for the pulpit on Sunday, but what does that have to do the Price of Tea in China?

PS

The Dominicans of Haitians Ancestry were not illegals until the NAZI Court made them so on Sept. 23rd!
##

THIS is for the people of good faith that might read this NONSENSE and actually believe this Guy who's job is to TWIST the TRUTH and push HAITIAN Agenda, His statement is WRONG since there was ALREADY a ruling in this same subject on 2005 by the Supreme Court of This country which ruled EXACTLY THE SAME as the latest, they Ruled the term TRANSIT on the constitution referred to people with NO LEGAL RESIDENCE on the DR, therefore according to article 11 of the PREVIOUS constitution ANYONE born of people IN TRANSIT was NOT entitled to Dominican CITIZENSHIP, THAT is the cold truth, this article has been like that since 1929 and can be VERI
Written by: airgordo, 1 Nov 2013 11:02 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean, 30 Oct 2013 5:51 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
Written by: xfactor, 30 Oct 2013 5:44 PM
From: United States
"That still doesn't mean they can't be wrong, right?"

No, but the minority has to suck it up.


Remember they are a minority in DR (and I am not to sure about that) but in any event the "Majority" of World Opinion and "Consensus" is gathering Against Us!
##

Against US?? so now you are INCLUDING yourself as part of the DOMINICAN NATION you have been constantly mopping the floor with? that's a VERY low thing to do Boy...
Written by: josean, 1 Nov 2013 11:06 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Nuremberg Laws to Denationalize German Jews were aslo passed by a Majority!


"The Nuremberg Laws were anti-Jewish statutes enacted by Germany on September 15, 1935, marking a major step in clarifying racial policy and removing Jewish influences from Aryan society."


Sound familair?


"These laws, on which the rest of Nazi racial policy hung, were written hastily."


Sound familair?



"In September 1935, Adolf Hitler decided that the time was ripe for more restrictions on Germany's Jews, especially since many Party militants had expressed their disappointment with the Arierparagraph."


Sound familair?


"He therefore outlined new laws for the protection of German blood and honor which would "regulate the problems of marriage between 'Aryans' and 'non-Aryans.'"


Sound familair?


Written by: airgordo, 1 Nov 2013 11:13 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Written by: kmnupe, 30 Oct 2013 11:57 PM
From: United States, NYC
I have a question ....Why is there a need to denationalize a group of people that shouldn't be citizens or should have never been thought of or think themselves as such in the first place?...isn't that just a waste of ink?

DEPORT THEM ALL OR THROW THEM IN THE FKEN OCEAN
##

is NOT like that, the DOMINICAN state Made a BIG mistake by issuing birth certificates that SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ISSUED, that is what the ruling corrected therefore the same ruling COMMANDS the state to FIX their mess, that will force the state to recognize rights that came from that mistake, people that in fairness feel like Dominicans and had all Dominican rights, THOSE PEOPLE which have birth certificates like the lady from the sentence DESERVE a fast track for formal citizenship via NATURALIZATION, ALL the other pieces of crap that committed FRAUD by buying cedulas, Names of deceased, etc. SHOULD BE DEPORTED and DENIED all.
Written by: airgordo, 1 Nov 2013 11:17 AM
From: Dominican Republic
@
Written by: josean
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Nuremberg Laws to Denationalize German Jews were aslo passed by a Majority!


"The Nuremberg Laws were anti-Jewish statutes enacted by Germany on September 15, 1935, marking a major step in clarifying racial policy and removing Jewish influences from Aryan society."


Sound familair?


"These laws, on which the rest of Nazi racial policy hung, were written hastily."


Sound familair?



"In September 1935, Adolf Hitler decided that the time was ripe for more restrictions on Germany's Jews, especially since many Party militants had expressed their disappointment with the Arierparagraph."


Sound familair?


"He therefore outlined new laws for the protection of German blood and honor which would "regulate the problems of marriage between 'Aryans' and 'non-Aryans.'"

Sound familair?
##

So DR is NAZI Germany...I hope there is NO
Written by: kmnupe, 1 Nov 2013 11:44 AM
From: United States, NYC
AIRGORDO ...Thanks for the feedback .
Written by: rokete, 1 Nov 2013 3:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
JOSEANO read my lips. ...............IRREVOCABILE!!!!!!!!!
Written by: rokete, 1 Nov 2013 3:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Joseano......read my lips once again .......IRREVOCABILE!!!!!!
Written by: rokete, 1 Nov 2013 3:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (((( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL !! ))))
Joseano......read my lips once again .......IRREVOCABILE!!!!!!
Written by: josean, 1 Nov 2013 3:32 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


So Said the German Führer and he died like the Rat he was in a Bunker!


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