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Coal-fired plant at Guayama, Puerto Rico was recently the target of a probe that found high levels of heavy metals in the ash produced by combustion.
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Santo Domingo.- A ruling party (PLD) senator on Wednesday railed against the government’s announced deal to build two coal-fired plants in the southern region, calling the plan “absurd,” at a time when the world seeks cleaner sources of energy.

Rafael Calderon (Azua-PLD) affirmed that coal fired plants as far away as China contaminate the air in the U.S., whose plants in turn pollute Canada’s rivers and lakes, prompting lawsuits filed by that nation against Washington.

“Why in my province, take it to yours, take the mercury, pollute your air,” the lawmaker said referring to the planned plants at San Cristobal and Azua provinces.

Interviewed on Hoy Mismo Channel 9, Calderon affirmed  that no Caribbean island would build coal-fired plants because the wind and marine currents will carry pollutants to their neighbors. “Why not more wind, solar, natural gas. Why the most pollutant of all fuels?”

He said the priority should be on more hydroelectrics and mini-hydroelectrics of up to 5 megawatts, “which should be installed under concessions, but they wouldn’t be exclusive,” the official said, noting that the contracts would be only for the use of the water flow/

Would oppose coal-fired plant in Azua

When informed that the plants in Azua or Haina (San Cristobal) would be as big as 500 megawatts, Calderon vowed to oppose it. “I wish it were 5,000 megas, so it would explode in their face.”

After reiterating that the plan is “absurd,” Calderon added that the sheer transport aboard bulk freighters implies a major carbon footprint and the pollutant rockash it would produce just west of the capital.

“The idea to build that plant at Haina is absurd, it’s the most polluted site on earth,” a description confirmed by the Blacksmith Institute.

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COMMENTS
78 comment(s)
Written by: Cacique, 24 Apr 2013 10:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic
No, no rockash again, snake eye paleface want Kiskeya tribe pay for poison, How?
Written by: simondc3, 24 Apr 2013 10:57 AM
From: United States
On 1856, Santana's 2nd term was cut short and was ousted after attempting to give Samaná as a coal depot for US Navy ships.
At the time others clearly saw Santana's subserviency to US emperialism.

While Calderon can be commended for his awareness of Haina as the "Dominican Chernobyl". It is sad that today no one can recall history and see the nonesense of building coal plants as just another attempt at subserviency to foreign interests. This time to financial interests benefiting only foreigners and not Dominicans. A servile inferiority that will --not only get DR into more unpayable debt to IMF / World Bank but-- exacerbate the pace of environmental degradation.

I guess this stage of the Holocene ought to be called the Stupidocene rather than Anthropocene, and right about now this particular time in the Stupidocene, name it Obcasuscene.
Written by: cibaeño75, 24 Apr 2013 11:24 AM
From: United States, New York City
Industrial production in the thirld world will be held back in this century if environmentalists are allowed to have their way with no debate. Coal is a win-win for the DR. It's cheap and not prone to the political vicissitudes associated with oil.
Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2013 11:32 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



I support Senator Rafael Calderon's (Azua-PLD) Fight!



"At the time others clearly saw Santana's subserviency to US emperialism"


simondc3.


Are you sure about that?

Our resident Pseudo Historian, Pseudo Economist, Pseudo-intellectual Revisionist, IDIOT IRS Atabey, would have us believe that Anti-Imperialism is a Bolshevik invention!




Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2013 11:34 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



Coal is a Dinosaur Technology and should be made extinct!


Written by: cibaeño75, 24 Apr 2013 11:54 AM
From: United States, New York City
Even common sense has to be discarded in the name of nationalism..I say nay! How is this an imperialist project? Did I somehow miss the fine print that states that said coal plants will be producing power for uses other than local consumption? The coaling station referred to would've been tantamount to a naval base for the US and a TOTALLY different situation. And the argument that DR doesn't produce coal therefore it shouldn't invest in such plants..DR doesn't produce oil either yet few would question a new plant that would produce electricity from the before mentioned resource.
Written by: anthonyC, 24 Apr 2013 12:10 PM
From: United States




Coal: Cheap, Efficient and Clean.



Written by: simondc3, 24 Apr 2013 12:46 PM
From: United States
Cibaeño, you're living the latter stages of what used to be called the Industrial Age. Said age has morphed many times in the last century as it depleted the environment of higher grade minerals / energy.

The stage you're at now is called the Neofeudal-Neocolonial debtocracy where multi-national financial interests use manipulated economic data to create debt-slaves out of the few countries left with any real asset on the ground. Is Corporate Imperialism, Neocolonialism. Why? Because there's not enough energy left for industry to use they must create these financial schemes if the musical chairs game is to continue to the bitter end.

Medina getting into US$5Billion debt in his 1st week in office is re-colonization through debt. Creating energy guzzling plants that power subpar industry is not of any advantage to any country, is debt slavery.

Look around you at the world. This is the Wile E. Coyote Moment we're seeing. Stop.Reduce.Reuse.Recycle. Is the only viable way forward.
Written by: Ricardolito, 24 Apr 2013 12:55 PM
From: Dominican Republic, calle A.Portes
Yes anthony C the coal power industry has really done a marvelous job in cleaning up its act .I supposed that it was forced to but it surpassed everyones expectations It depends who you read but on US statistics the air pollution from coal power stations has been reduced by 80 % since the seventies and even the critics are admitting now that there has been a 20 to 25 % reduction in the past year .
so with a coal station that was built environmentally correctly , it seems that it would be a great win for the DR ..as anthonyC says sheap , efficient and clean
Not too sure why most contributors do not do their research on the way that coal fired power stations have dramatically reduced their pollution levels
Written by: richardholden, 24 Apr 2013 1:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic, navarette
I used to work for a company with a co-gen plant, coal was almost eliminated with the use of bio-mass and bunker C oil, the latter available from Venezuala. Coal pollutes and with this country's waste problem, using coal is a real stupid idea.
Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2013 1:27 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"coal is a real stupid idea"


An Understatement!


Written by: cibaeño75, 24 Apr 2013 2:15 PM
From: United States, New York City
simondc adds "they must create these financial schemes if the musical chairs game is to continue to the bitter end.Medina getting into US$5Billion debt in his 1st week in office is re-colonization through debt. Creating energy guzzling plants that power subpar industry is not of any advantage to any country, is debt slavery."

Regardless, DR needs the power. Bottom line. It's not just to power subpar industries but everyday life. A problem that Medina inherited and one which will not fix itself with the wave of a magic wand. Electric output needs to be increased and it this point fanciful new fangled technologies might sound nice but nice sounds never filled any stomachs..or lit rooms. Calderon blasts a plan that is ready to go forward, a plan that is ready to provide something desperately needed. His solution? Theory, we should use this, and we should use that...but nothing concrete. Castles in the sky are not going to provide power to the Dominican people.
Written by: Juango, 24 Apr 2013 7:30 PM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
Regardless, with no money to pay for anything at this moment, no company in it's sane mind would invest the capital required to get the National Grid up to snuff ! New coal plants in the DR would necessarily be constructed on the coast (near an existing port). NG Plants would also be a solution, only if the government would allow two companies to provide the fuel. Currently there is only a single supplier of NG, that is AES. Could there be a second gas terminal on the North Coast in the near future?
Written by: Juango, 24 Apr 2013 7:30 PM
From: United States, far S. Florida (formerly Santo Domingo)
Ricky you are correct in your post above..Coal industry has had to clean up it's act (no pun). The latest coal fired plant designs are efficient and very low polluters. I really cannot speak for smaller plants (~300 MW), but for larger plants (600+ MW) it would be a great thing for the DR.. I am not speaking of older retrofitted plants which are bought and shipped disassembled to the site. I am referring to newly designed and constructed plants.
Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2013 8:27 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


The Myth of Clean Coal: Analysis

Will coal become the clean, green fuel of the future? Not so fast.

From that Communits Enviormental Wacko publication:

Popular Mechanics

popularmechanics.com/_mobile/science/energy/coal-oil-gas/4339171

Written by: josean, 24 Apr 2013 8:33 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Exposing the Myth of Clean Coal Power

From that Bolshevik magazine TIME!


The "clean coal" campaign was always more PR than reality — currently there's no economical way to capture and sequester carbon emissions from coal, and many experts doubt there ever will be. But now the idea of clean coal might be truly dead, buried beneath the 1.1 billion gallons of water mixed with toxic coal ash that on Dec. 22 burst through a dike next to the Kingston coal plant in the Tennessee Valley and blanketed several hundred acres of land, destroying nearby houses. The accident — which released 100 times more waste than the Exxon Valdez disaster — has polluted the waterways of Harriman, Tenn., with potentially dangerous levels of toxic metals like arsenic and mercury, and left much of the town uninhabitable. (See TIME's special report on the environment.)

Read the rest at:

time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1870599,00.html

Written by: poponlaburra, 24 Apr 2013 9:22 PM
From: Dominican Republic, popon@att.net
Wao! at last! someone has something good to stand for!
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 11:48 AM
From: United States, New York City
In reference to Japan :"And with the government considering the closure of much of the installed nuclear capacity over the medium term, the spotlight is back on coal as the cheapest energy source, notwithstanding plans to cut carbon emissions."

That's from a article published TODAY. Wow, those truly backward Japanese. Heaven's forbid Dominicans ever try to emulate such a people.

Read more about Japan's current infatuation with this "outdated" form of providing power:
brisbanetimes.com.au/business/japan-turns-back-to-coalfired-power-plants-20130425-2ihb0.html#ixzz2RUT96WqI
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 12:23 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



Some People Just Love to be Part of the Flat Earth Society!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 12:27 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Some People Just Love to be Part of the Flat Earth Society!"

Yes, people like the Japanese obviously.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 12:38 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Neither you nor the Article Speak for "THE" Japanese……..Maybe for SOME Japanese at best!

PS

The Japanese are Not Superior Infallible Beings, they also have IDIOTS as well.

Remember the Attack on Pearl Harbor and how that Turned out for them; do the words Nagasaki and Hiroshima meaning anything to you?


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 12:55 PM
From: United States, New York City
The article brings to light policies that are about to be implemented by the Japanese. It's not an op-ed piece even if you choose to read it as such. And no, the japanse are not infallible beings but they have created a society that a state in DR's stage of development can learn alot from. And what do Nagasake and Hiroshima have to do with Japans' devlopment as a nation? That's not germane to this at all. The fact is that one of the most advanced nations on Earth is seeing the viability of this technology again. It would be in others interest to at least take head. And at no time did I ever state that I speak for the Japanese people. I simply made reference to an article that details what the japanese are up to in regards to coal. Refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:10 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


'Yes, people like "the" Japanese obviously."


Those are you words not mine!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 1:21 PM
From: United States, New York City
"'Yes, people like "the" Japanese obviously."


Those are you words not mine!"

Yes, in reference to the entities that are implementing the policies as outlined in the article, which are indeed Japanese. Again, the article is about JAPAN'S current policies with regards to coal. I'm aware that English is your second language. If there are still parts of the article that are nebulous to you please point them out and I will try to explain it to you in simpler terms.

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:23 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"they have created a society that a state in DR's stage of development can learn alot from"


Yeah, The Japanese are so Smart they are Dying Out!

“THE JAPANESE ARE DYING OUT”

kslx.com/pete-cummings/blog/the-japanese-are-dying-out

“Japan Is Dying”

Two or three decades ago, it was fashionable to say that Japan was the future. And now it seems that we were right: Japan does look like the future. Just not in the way we expected.

Back in the 1970s, Japan was the rising economic powerhouse that was set to shift the balance of power from West to East, rather like China is supposed to be today.

Then look what happened. It suffered not one lost decade but two of them, and is heading for a hat-trick. And as far as I can see, this is only the beginning of its woes.

continued:

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:25 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

Dead country

I spent a couple of months in Japan 20 years ago, and I loved the place and the people. But it pains me to say that unless the country goes through a radical (and unlikely) transformation, it will be no more. It will cease to be. It will shuffle off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and join the bleedin' choir invisible.

It will be an ex-country. Do you want to invest in that?

How much debt?

Japan has problems. It has public sector debts of nearly 250% of GDP, compared to 59% in the U.K. Its budget deficit is 8.7% and no plan to shrink it for at least five years. And this week, ratings agency Standard & Poor's downgraded Japanese debt from AA to -AA, claiming it lacks a "coherent strategy" to control this massive deficit.

continued:



Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:26 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

So far, Japan has been able to service its borrowings by turning to its own people, who buy 94% of its government debt, even at rubbish yields of around 1.21%. But this can't go on forever, and for a very worrying reason.

fool.com/investing/international/2011/01/28/japan-is-dying.aspx



Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 1:31 PM
From: United States, New York City
Japan may have its woes but a Dominican living in the Dominican Republic is in no position to even attempt to look down on her as a nation. It will be decades before the Dominican nation reaches any of the levels of social indicators that Japan is now experiencing, if ever. That's a poor form of obfuscation. Back to the topic at hand...obviously highly developed economies are looking at coal again and so should DR.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:31 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


PS

Don’t Forget these are also the “Geniuses” that put a Nuclear Plant Next to the Ocean In a country Prone to Earth Quakes and Tsunamis.

I guess they never Watched their Own Godzilla Movies!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 1:34 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Don’t Forget these are also the “Geniuses” that put a Nuclear Plant Next to the Ocean In a country Prone to Earth Quakes and Tsunamis."

Indeed. As an alternative to fossil fuels...such as coal.

BTW they are also responsible for a bevy of invovations that have made our modern society possible. But that doesn't fit into the narrative you're trying to paint so...carry on.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 1:45 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


I am not trying to paint any narrative, I just trying to bring you down to earth that the Japanese are Not Gods and the Screw up like the rest of US and not everything they Say in Economics or Technology is Gospel!

By the way whatever happened to the Dominant Geniuses at SONY?

Does American Apple ring a Bell?


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 1:59 PM
From: United States, New York City
"I am not trying to paint any narrative, I just trying to bring you down to earth that the Japanese are Not Gods and the Screw up like the rest of US and not everything they Say in Economics or Technology is Gospel!"

Indeed it is not but for a person that lives in a nation suffering from serious power shortages you should take head. The Japanese have an electrical grid that actually WORKS. Yes, you can bring up the recent disaster but guess what? Even with that happening I guarantee you that as of right now the average Japanese has better access to electrical power than the average Dominican. Even after the catastophe they suffered. That speaks volumes and at higher decibles than anything else I'm hearing on here.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 2:23 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



Well the Fact the US and other allied powers had to rebuild the Country after WW II might have a little to do with that!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 2:34 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Well the Fact the US and other allied powers had to rebuild the Country after WW II might have a little to do with that!"

That's actually false. The fact is that state planning(though the electric companies were privately owned) initiated by the Japanese government in the early 50s is what's responsible for Japans' current electrical grid.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 2:41 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


What"s false?



Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 2:42 PM
From: United States
Is so sad seeing Japan between the proverbial RADIOACTIVE rock and CRUEL future.
Kudos Josean on providing a clear and concise history of Japan of the last 30yrs and clearly stating where is headed. Unfortunately you're trying to elucidate fanatics conditioned to unquestioningly believe in the current dying paradigm.

Japan is the harbinger of things to come. The canary in the radioactive coal mine that our current paradigm's become.

But we don't have to collectively commit hara-kiri like the Japanese leaders are bent on doing and we don't have to blindly follow that paradigm to its painful conclusion like the Japanese hoi polloi do.

Question more. Cibaeño, notice is Brisbane Times the one putting this sermon out. Is Australia interested in selling its Uranium to whomever will take it while the central banks collectively try to keep spinning the plates of manipulated neoliberal 'free' market economies about to come crashing down all over the globe? QUESTION.MORE.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 2:43 PM
From: United States, New York City
"What"s false?"

That the US REBUILT (for they already had decent electrical service before the war) Japan's electrical grid. The Japanese did that, albeit with foreign capital in the inital phases. If you can prove otherwise then please enlighten me.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 2:47 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Where did I say they rebuilt the electrical System?




Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 2:51 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Where did I say they rebuilt the electrical System?"

You said:"Well the Fact the US and other allied powers had to rebuild the Country after WW II might have a little to do with that!"

You added the above immediately after I made a comment regarding japan's capacity to provide power. As such it could only have been contrued in that context by me.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 2:54 PM
From: United States, New York City
simondc asks "Question more. Cibaeño, notice is Brisbane Times the one putting this sermon out."

That's not a sermon. Again, this was NOT an op-ed piece. It is a NEWS ITEM. Please, learn to distinguish the difference. The Brisbane Times was simply reporting on the issue. If the author of said article offered up a personal opinion then please point it out.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:05 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


If the author of said article offered up a personal opinion then please point it out.



"The Devil's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist."


Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 3:19 PM
From: United States
....
QUESTION.MORE.

"Mr Dent, have you any idea how much damage that bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll straight over you?"..."None at all," said Mr Prosser. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, chapter1.

You Cibaeño seem under the impression there's still a difference between state-sponsored propaganda + actual information that informs.

READ.MORE.

Start with "1984". When the similarities in it to our lives today become to painful to your brain, pick up The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, is just as painful, but might as well laugh it off as we get on to pass through the bottleneck...and you'll find the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything.
Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 3:19 PM
From: United States
The only reason Japan became industrially dominant after WWII is exactly for the reasons stated by Josean. It was entirely rebuilt by the U.S. and 'agreed' to by the rest of the Allied 'winners'.
It created a source of cheap labor to the new hegemon on the planet.

How best to get the hoi polloi to unquestioningly embrace that newly opened Pandora Box of nuke fission? Why, highly recommend to the Japanese to embrace building of GE nuke plants while Disney introduces "Our Friend the Atom" to the hoi polloi. So many birds killed with one stone.

Initially whitepapers on nuke plant construction clearly stated not to build near seismically unstable areas. Japan IS the ridge of 4 distinct tectonic plates colliding. Oops, caveat emptor, don't worry, it will provide 30% of your electricity for eternity or until 2011, whichever comes first + you're all irradiated as is, win/win, no loss, none whatsoever....
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:29 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Again, this was NOT an op-ed piece. It is a NEWS ITEM."

This appears to be A spinner “news Article” since the only source for this “unbiased journalist” is “According to Japanese media reports” which he even doesn’t mention who are those Japanese media outlets who are “reporting!”


Nice Try But No Cigar!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:30 PM
From: United States, New York City
"If the author of said article offered up a personal opinion then please point it out.



"The Devil's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.""

Couldn't produce so you decide to regale me with cute quotes that are, again, not germane to the discussion.

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:33 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Couldn't produce so you decide to regale me with cute quotes that are, again, not germane to the discussion."



Of course nothing that Spanks you would be "germane!"


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:34 PM
From: United States, New York City
"The only reason Japan became industrially dominant after WWII is exactly for the reasons stated by Josean. It was entirely rebuilt by the U.S. and 'agreed' to by the rest of the Allied 'winners'.
It created a source of cheap labor to the new hegemon on the planet."

What on God's green Earth does Japan's historical reasons for industrial might have to do with what we're discussing? I brought up an article printed TODAY concerning Japan's attitude vis-a-vis coal GOING FORWARD. If you wish to discuss the nuances that have put Japan in the position she is in today then by all means begin a thread in the forum and I will participate. Otherwise, and again, it is not germane to this discussion.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:35 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


Next week you will be trying to Convince us that Smoking Doesn’t' Cause Cancer!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:39 PM
From: United States, New York City
"This appears to be A spinner “news Article” since the only source for this “unbiased journalist” is “According to Japanese media reports” which he even doesn’t mention who are those Japanese media outlets who are “reporting!”"


Again, and by your OWN admission, the author of the article did not offer up any personal opinion. This not an op-ed and if you see it as such you really need a crash course on reading comprehension. If, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are insinuating that the news being reported in said article is somehow false then by all means prove it.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:44 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Next week you will be trying to Convince us that Smoking Doesn’t' Cause Cancer!"

That's a very poor comeback...and not at all relevant to anything at all. Fact is the Dominican nation has few choices to adress its electrical needs at this point. The exotic technologies available are not viable for the nation at this point. Coal is there. it is cheap. It is easily accesible. The truth is your options are few and not pretty.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:49 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Again, and by your OWN admission, the author of the article did not offer up any personal opinion."


How do you KNOW it is not his own opinion, since it not Sourced?

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:52 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"The truth is your options are few and not pretty."


I thought DR’s “problem” was not regarding generating capacity or demand but rather no payment?
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:53 PM
From: United States, New York City
"How do you KNOW it is not his own opinion, since it not Sourced?"

Then prove it. I can disprove the entire article with a very simple google search if the information in it is indeed false. You have the same exact tools at your disposal. Instead of trying to insinuate go and disprove the news reported in said article. It was posted today so you shouldn't have to dig to deep. Good luck and get back to me when you are done.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:55 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"Dominican Republic’s energy czar admits debt brought blackouts"



Santo Domingo.- State-owned electric utility (CDEEE) CEO Ruben Jimenez Bichara admitted Tuesday that the recent spate of blackouts result from a lack of payment and not from technical problems as he suggested last week.

dominicantoday.com/dr/economy/2013/4/23/47401/Dominican-Republics-energy-czar-admits-debt-brought-blackouts


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:56 PM
From: United States, New York City
"I thought DR’s “problem” was not regarding generating capacity or demand but rather no payment?"

They are both problems at this conjunction unfortunately. But your grid is in dismal shape regardless of the monetary situation. If you need literature from solid sources that state as much I' d be more than glad to provide it.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 3:58 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



You’re the one that made the claim it was not opinion not me, onus is on you!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 3:59 PM
From: United States, New York City
Josean quotes"
State-owned electric utility (CDEEE) CEO Ruben Jimenez Bichara admitted Tuesday that the recent spate of blackouts result from a lack of payment and not from technical problems as he suggested last week."

So you are incredulous of an obvious news piece but you choose to give credence to a Dominican bureacrat. Ok carry on.

Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:00 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



So you Know more than CDEEE CEO Ruben Jimenez Bichara?



Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:01 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"obvious news"


Where is the "obvious" source?


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:08 PM
From: United States, New York City

""obvious news"


Where is the "obvious" source?"

YOU are the one calling it into question so the onus is on you. Good luck.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:08 PM
From: United States, New York City
According to the Latin Buiness Chronicle, an organization that provides information to companies wishing to do business in Latin America, DR has among the worst electrical grids in the ENTIRE HEMISPHERE. I refer you to their site.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:10 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



…..And how does building a Polluting Coal Power Plant help improve the Grid?

Remember I am Dumb Campesino!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:11 PM
From: United States, New York City
"So you Know more than CDEEE CEO Ruben Jimenez Bichara?"

josean, blackouts have been a common feature of the Dominican lanscape since I have use of memory. What was the reason for the blackouts in the 80s? The 90s? Same reason as the one illustrated by this vaunted bureacrat you chose to roll out? Or could it be that even back then the Dominican grid was showing signs of being subpar?
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:12 PM
From: United States, New York City
josean quips "Remember I am Dumb Campesino!"

I know and that's why I display the utmost patience with you. But I'm here to help.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:14 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"According to the Latin Buiness Chronicle,"

You see very good, teach that sourcing skill to your unbiased journalist from BrisbaneTimes!
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:16 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016

"I know and that's why I display the utmost patience with you. But I'm here to help."

So please help me with this one:


…..And how does building a Polluting Coal Power Plant help improve the Grid?
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:23 PM
From: United States, New York City
"…..And how does build a Polluting Coal Power Plant help improve the Grid?"

Your answer is in your very question. It's a POWER PLANT. Any extra source of power will imrove the grid's capacity to provide power. It's not rocket science.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:33 PM
From: United States, New York City
For the record josean I do not think you are dumb. Not at all. I was just feeding off of your mocking self deprecation. I do, however, think that you are one stubborn son of a b1tch. And that often times can be a good thing. Carry on.
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:34 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



I am really dense, how does it exactly work?


Since you know more than the government bureaucrat who says it’s a payment issue!


Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:36 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016


"I do, however, think that you are one stubborn son of a b1tch"


Now we Finally Agree!


Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:39 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Since you know more than the government bureaucrat who says it’s a payment issue!"

Our collective memory as a people are stacked against his claims. Check my previous post concerning how blackouts have been a common feature in DR for decades...now all of a sudden they roll this out as the reason. Ok. For someone who constantly questions Dominican bureacrats on here you certainly are selective as to who should be given credence to.
Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 4:42 PM
From: United States
Cibaeño says, "It's a POWER PLANT."

"Come off it, Mr Dent, you can't win you know. You can't lie in front of the bulldozer indefinitely. I'm afraid you're going to have to accept it, this bypass has got to be built and it's going to be built! What do you mean, WHY it's got to be built? It's a bypass You've got to build bypasses. " Mr Posser of the local construction council to Mr Dent on why his house has got to be demolished. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, chapter1.

Replace 'bypass' with POWER PLANT, or with PROGRESS, or with MINING, or with PAVE OVER EVERYTHING. Is all the same.
Promote the status quo without question else you're being unfaithful and risk derision and excommunication. All must kneel with bounded minds at the feet of Progress. Is fault of our faithless souls if Progress doesn't materialize.

QUESTION.MORE.

Let Japan light itself as sacrificial pyre to Progress.
Let DR question more. Let DR question Progress, its pace, its purpose, who benefits.
Written by: cibaeño75, 25 Apr 2013 4:47 PM
From: United States, New York City
"Let Japan light itself as sacrificial pyre to Progress.
Let DR question more. Let DR question Progress,...."

And meanwhile, everyday, the sons and daughters of DR attempt to leave enmasse to those places in the world that light themselves "as sacrificial pyres to Progress".
Written by: josean, 25 Apr 2013 4:50 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016



"For someone who constantly questions Dominican bureacrats on here you certainly are selective as to who should be given credence to."


Precisely!

I am QUESTIONING both you and him and maybe somewhere in between lay the real FACTS!




Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 5:06 PM
From: United States
"...meanwhile, everyday,...sons and daughters...attempt to leave enmasse to...places...that light themselves...as sacrificial pyres to Progress."

Thank you Cibaeño, I'll use that quote going forward if you'll permit.
Also, "Truth is, your options are few, and not pretty." That's gold Cibaeño, is it a quote from somewhere? I might change the end to "...and all of them painful."

If you'd allow yourself to waken from the soma-induced stupor you're in you'll realize, and you Josean, we're all talking about the same thing. Just looking at different individual parts. Like the blind men inspecting the elephant, one the tusk, one the trunk, one the ear, one the tail...all different conclusions, all about the same animal.

I, for one, love the Scientific Method, history, and the implications of the Laws of Thermodynamics bounded in a finite system make the pit of my stomach feel like a block of ice.
For we've been here before, at least 13 times before...
Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 5:18 PM
From: United States
...The detritus in the archeological record show that --since the Akkadians, the Sumerians + Babylonians, ancient China, ancient Athens + Egypt, and Rome, Incas-- we've been here before. We've found one source upon which to settle on, build, construct and grow in complexity. Then that resource hits the halfway point and it's been catabolic collapse from then onward.

We're at catabolic collapse now. We should be prepping to downscale gracefully and with as little pain + no indignities if possible. Instead we're intent on picking up speed to leap across that chasm like Wile E. Coyote, with the same tactics that gotten us to this moment in time even though the high quality, energy dense source we've built all this on is not there as it used to be.

Even though, if you're willing to peer past the state-sponsored stupor, you'll glimpse that for a while now Progress has come at expenses that shorten our lives, our desire to live, our comfort. But there is a way. QUESTION.MORE.
Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 5:44 PM
From: United States
What freezes my stomach is the loss that's happened before when those before us pushed onward with the belief, the certainty, that if they just kept at it, wished it hard enough, worked and sacrificed all, it would happen.

For their understanding of themselves had shifted somewhere along the way.
Forgot the source that really permitted them to create such complexity. For the Akkadians it was fertile lands, Sumerians and Babylonians it was awesome topsoil, ancient China same topsoil and good land husbandry, Ancient Greece bronze and silver, Rome topsoil of others and district-size latifundias.

Instead conditioned themselves to believe a cultural hubris that it was their god(s), their superiority over others, their intelligence over the past, their hard work, etc that got them where they got to.

Much like us today. Today our hubris is Progress,...& that we're not indigenos,...& coal plants :-b

But is all the same. A source, namely fossil fuels. Ever in decline since 1969...
Written by: simondc3, 25 Apr 2013 5:55 PM
From: United States
...It's been financial hocus-pocus to the nth-degree ever since. Develop tactics using their greed and hopes for their debt-slavery and neo-serfdom. Apply-rinse-and-repeat.

How much was lost between the fall of Constantinople on 453CE to the Renaissance?
How much was lost in science, engineering, the detailed knowledge of the past before them? How much pain did humanity experienced in shorten lives lived entirely in want, hunger, filth in the span between civilizations?

We shouldn't rush to repeat that. But it is what we're set on doing.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results" --Albert Einstein.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to never stop questioning." --Albert Einstein.

QUESTION.MORE.
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