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Santo Domingo.- A Protestant organization is behind a campaign in the country’s east and northwest regions, which concerns many people who fear that Haitians are demanding Dominican territory.

El Nuevo Diario newspaper executive Cosette Bonnelly on Sunday said the campaign resorts to using numerous people of Haitian descent, “to walk around our streets and our rural areas wearing t-shirts with a printed message that reads ‘Taking our territory’."

Haiti former general Consul Edwin Paraison justifies the campaign saying that "Taking our territory" is an Evangelical Ministry and not a campaign that seeks to merge Hispaniola’s two nations.

“It’s good to know that but even so, the initiative during these times is questionable and provocative,” Bonnelly said.

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COMMENTS
107 comment(s)
Written by: zooma, 24 Feb 2014 8:41 AM
From: United States, and Dominican Republic

The campaign is ill advised in this time of tension. The organization should be kindly requested to cease this activity and find an appropriate name for its ministry that is not inflamatory

I dislike to say this, yet it needs to be said, I admit it is quite obvious. The person or persons behind this strategy did it to provoke Dominicans while hiding under the cloak of spreading the ministry.

Written by: pelaut, 24 Feb 2014 8:56 AM
From: United States
Those tees are paid for by the Clintons.
Written by: XxMolotovCocktailxX, 24 Feb 2014 9:00 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Sabana iglesia,Santiago
Zooma,I'm glad you admit it..I Don't know whats to dislike considering how obvious it is.I saw this on the news the other day didn't think much of it..Still don't...This little charade doesn't benefit them idk what they will gain from this.Provoke some nationalist get attacked then play the victims.
Written by: Gomezmedia, 24 Feb 2014 9:17 AM
From: United States
Even a simple religious slogan, printed on a T-shirt, can spark paranoi and illusions among xenophobic Dominicans that Haitians are out there to take over their country and steal their terrirory. Such mindset, unfortunately, is the result of years of propaganda encouraged by a far-right, racist few, that despises anything Haitian, African or Black. It's time to stop the paranoi. No one is going to take over the DR and steal its territory, not in the 21st, 22nd, or 23rd century, irrespective of slogans, t-shirt markings, etc.

Move on to new priorities and challenges and don't get stuck with the past. Many nations in the Caribbean, Africa and elsewhere could also look back at the barbarity that was done to their people through slavery -- the most abominable, sickening practice the world has ever known. Yet, most, if not all, have somehow managed to move on, emerging in the 21st century as they cement new and strong relationship with the very nations that had enslaved them.
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 11:13 AM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
GomezMierda

Agreed that the present system of "restavek" slavery in Haiti, that punishes underage children, into life long abuse, sexual molestation, and humiliation, can no longer be tolerated by the international community.
Also the Haitian policy of "exporting" their poor, elderly, sick, and unemployed by the Haitian government should be stopped, and sanctioned by the UN occupation forces in Haiti. This practice is causing severe problems in the Dominican Republic, and other neighboring caribbean nations.

Afro-Centrists have to stop their usual practice, of using epithets of "racism, xenophobia, fascism" and dispensing it freely, to further their own expansionist goals.
Written by: guillermone, 24 Feb 2014 12:24 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

Written by: Gomezmedia, 24 Feb 2014 9:17 AM
From: United States

"..a simple religious slogan,..on a T-shirt, can spark paranoi ..xenophobic Dominicans that Haitians are out there to take over their country and steal their terrirory. Such mindset,.. is the result of years of propaganda encouraged by a far-right, racist few, that despises anything Haitian, African or Black"
---------
MrGmz-Whenever I read comments such as what you have made, I always ask for proof to justify and support that this is truly a racially motivated issue. I am still waiting. I don't really know what is behind your thoughts, perhaps you are just naïve and totally oblivious to what is happening in the DR and feel no need for alarm. However, when I see that in the DR 1 out of every 5 natives is Haitian, I would be quite concerned. In the 1930's as a consequence of a passive invasion of unarmed Haitian peasants, the DR lost miles of national territory to Haiti, yet you tell me I have nothing to worry about
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 12:30 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Zooma and Gomezmierda are trying to defend what is indefensible.



Well the message could not be more clear.

And to believe that some people are still questioning me,

that there is no "Hispaniola Fusion Agenda.

Well there you have it.



Haitian and their advocate's tactic is for Dominicans to pay attention to other issues,

while the pacific invasion continues to take a stronghold.



Nice try Gomezmierda, don't forget the racial card, and the Afrocentric racist negritude !!



(((((( I simply hope that it escalates to the point of Dominican reaction !!! ))))


Where are dreadlocks, radar, and hernandez ???
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 12:39 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Radar

With all due respect, you joined on January 15, 2014.

You have actually missed the worst of this deliberate denigration,

of Dominicans by the Haitians and their advocates in this forum.

I am not going to details, as to the facts, and reason,

behind what you call "unfounded, dumb suspicion",

but others more informed than you, have denounced, it as a fact.

My resolute and unmovable stance against what you call "suspicion",

of Hispaniola Fusion Agenda, is definitive.


We have not created the current situation as you have pointed out.

Rather, we have permitted the situation, by not taking action when it was escalating.

It has been created by USA impositions upon cowards like Leonel and Hipolito.

Together with Canada, France, UK, Haitian officials and advocates, as one big riffraff.

Nevertheless, it can be contained and resolved, if we act in unison.
Written by: Perception, 24 Feb 2014 12:46 PM
From: United States
Generoso@


GomezMierda.?

This "Thread" Alone.!!!



Mira.***
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:02 PM
From: United States
@guillermone,"In the 1930's as a consequence of a passive invasion of unarmed Haitian peasants, the DR lost miles of national territory to Haiti, yet you tell me I have nothing to worry about" really
@Zooma, wise
@ rokete, as usual
Written by: DaveB, 24 Feb 2014 1:07 PM
From: United States
Gomez; " done to their people"? " Their people" not only participated in the slave trade, they initiated the trade and practiced it themselves for hundreds of years. Some of "Their people" take, hold and sell human slaves today. As to some of the accusations of racism here, anyone trying to say that "their people" were only victims of the slave trade, are actually showing themselves to be racist bigots.
Written by: USADR, 24 Feb 2014 1:13 PM
From: United States
Written by: Gomezmedia, 24 Feb 2014 9:17 AM
'. Such mindset, unfortunately, is the result of years of propaganda encouraged by a far-right, racist few, that despises anything Haitian, African or Black. It's time to stop the paranoi. No one is going to take over the DR and steal its territory, not in the 21st, 22nd, or 23rd century, irrespective of slogans, t-shirt markings, etc.'

^
Playing the usual victimist race card is inapplicable for hypocrites such as yourself, empirical evidence and historical facts not only contradict your self-serving fallacious (non) arguments, they actually point your allegations directly back on to you Haitians.

Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:16 PM
From: United States
@USADR,"Playing the usual victimist race card is inapplicable for hypocrites such as yourself, empirical evidence and historical facts not only contradict your self-serving fallacious (non) arguments, they actually point your allegations directly back on to you Haitians." really
@DaveB, "Gomez; " done to their people"? " Their people" not only participated in the slave trade, they initiated the trade and practiced it themselves for hundreds of years. Some of "Their people" take, hold and sell human slaves today. As to some of the accusations of racism here, anyone trying to say that "their people" were only victims of the slave trade, are actually showing themselves to be racist bigots." really
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 1:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:16 PM
From: United States
@USADR,"Playing the usual victimist race card is inapplicable for hypocrites such as yourself, empirical evidence and historical facts not only contradict your self-serving fallacious (non) arguments, they actually point your allegations directly back on to you Haitians." really
_________________


Yes really !!!

Haiti has the second largest amount of adult slaves in the world.

Second only to Mauritania.

That goes without mentioning the 500,000 Restabeck slave children in Haiti.


Plus a little history reminder to Gomezmierda,

that black Africans sold other black Africans as slaves to the Portuguese.

First step to the triangular slave trade.

Therefore, black Africans contributed to the creation their own misfortune.

The same is happening in Haiti today.

Black Haitians are creating the misfortune of millions of other blacks Haitians,

they hold as social slaves.
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:28 PM
From: United States
@rokete, you really don't know history
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 1:32 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:28 PM
From: United States
@rokete, you really don't know history
______

Since you know more than me

Go ahead and enlighten me.

Prove me wrong !!!

Nevertheless, I won't go into to much verbiage with you on the subject.

The history of slaves is of no interest to me.



Who Started the Triangular Trade?
For two hundred years, 1440-1640, Portugal had a monopoly on the export of slaves from Africa. It is notable that they were also the last European country to abolish the institution - although, like France, it still continued to work former slaves as contract laborers, which they called libertos or engagés à temps. It is estimated that during the 4 1/2 centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal was responsible for transporting over 4.5 million Africans (roughly 40% of the total).

africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/tp/TransAtlantic001.htm
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:47 PM
From: United States
@rokete,one slavery as you know it was not practice by the Africans on each other, what they actual practice was indenture servant, which was similar to those that was practice by the Europeans and Asians in which they had rights and was protected by society and many of the indenture servants even adopted the family that there are indenture to, two much of the leaders after they found out what slavery was , they refuse to participate in which they where force to , some even commit suicide then participated,some even fought against such act and that was happening all over the continent, but after they where defeated they where enslave.
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 1:50 PM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
rokete
Your quotations are entirely correct.
The Portuguese where the first ones that approached the marauding black tribes in Africa, that used to sacrifice their captured prisoners. Instead of "killing them" as it was their usual and customary procedure, they suggested that they use the slaves as trading commodities. That is how the slave trade started, but the slaves where being captured by other blacks, not whites.
That is when the "triangular trade" prospered, and humans where transported as a commodity, to the new world.
Slavery was also carried out with whites, yellows and browns, so not only blacks suffered this abominable destiny.
FYI: The first Taino natives that migrated forcibly to the USA, arrived in Charleston, North Carolina in 1520, where aboard a Spanish ship, that brought them as slaves to trade, from Santo Domingo.
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 1:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
bhaitan

Nice attempt to "sugar coat" slavery, but no cigar.
Indenture servant is another misleading "nice word" to try to candy coat the horrible practice of "restavek" still being practiced TODAY in your Haiti cherie, with over 230,000 children, being held hostage, subject to physical punishment, and sexual molestation.
Amounts are well documented, and ratified by the latest UN census of 2010 in Haiti.
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 1:58 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

haitian

Nicely accommodated, far from reality.

African tribes waged war on each other,

took the prisoners as slaves,

later a practice developed to sell them to the Portuguese.


Indentured servitude

was a form of debt bondage, established in the early years of the American colonies and elsewhere. It was sometimes used as a way for poor youth in Britain and the German states to get passage to the American colonies. They would work for a fixed number of years, then be free to work on their own. The employer purchased the indenture from the sea captain who brought the youths over; he did so because he needed labour. Some worked as farmers or helpers for farm wives, some were apprenticed to craftsmen. Both sides were legally obligated to meet the terms, which were enforced by local American courts. Runaways were sought out and returned. About half of the white immigrants to the American colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries were indentured.
Written by: Atabey, 24 Feb 2014 2:22 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


bhaitan,


High Time you started to learn good History instead of all that propaganda stuff from the Afro-Centric curriculum you studied.



Written by: Boriquen90, 24 Feb 2014 3:11 PM
From: United States
What's with the obsession these ethnocentric fascists have with the Dominicans racial/ancestral make up? It's like these folks think of the Dominican people as a single, homogenous entity. One gets the impression from these certain types Haitians and their cohorts, that Dominicans are merely Spanish-speaking transplanted sub-Saharan Africans who've been "colonized" and "deny" and are "ashamed" of who they really are and need to be enlightened (reminded) by these righteous, ethnically, morally superior, outsider, P.C., Afro-centric blowhards and equally condescending American and European academics or "intellectuals" to remind the lowly mutts of a developing country of how they should view/define themselves and their identity on the terms of OUTSIDERS .
Written by: DONT_BE_SILENT, 24 Feb 2014 3:13 PM
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NOR FORSAKEN!
The to collision with these people is imminent. These people have a weird way to thank the only people that have been willing to help them for many, many years.
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 3:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
Borinquen90

Well said, and welcome.
Dominicans not only have to provide health services, shelter, education and jobs for Haitians, but they enter the DR as it was their backyard or patio, take what they want and stay, or squatter in the DR as long as they want.
Putting up with an aggressive, violent, merciless, superstitious, ungrateful and disease carrying neighbors has not been easy.
Now not only they want "sanctuary", but they want to claim the DR as their own extended territory.
Reminds me of Saddam Hussein and his excuse for invading Kuwait.
Written by: Perception, 24 Feb 2014 3:46 PM
From: United States
"All Living in a Yellow SubMarine".*






L¤¤King.***
Written by: Atabey, 24 Feb 2014 3:50 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


And worse of all Generoso is the fact that many want to deny that a separate nation exist on the island of Hispaniola !

That's right.

While the DR has NEVER wanted to deny Haiti its independence, many in Haiti-and outside it-want to create this myth of "Dominican" as an "accident" and that in reality the island is Haiti's.

So you have writers usurping historical figures like Anacaona and other Tainos personalities, THAT WERE NEVER PART OF THE HAITIAN HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE-as these historical people were LONG GONE when the French established their legal Colonial jurisdiction in 1698 of the western part of the island by way of a Treaty with Spain.

Again, this Historical ploy owes much to the original French attempt to usurp the island of La Española from Spain by naming the French Colony "Saint Dominique or "Santo Domingo" in French. This created worldwide confusion that the French hoped would work to their advantage over the long run.

Written by: Atabey, 24 Feb 2014 3:54 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--

When Dessalines put forth his Imperial Constitution of 1804, he furthered the original French ploy by taking the aboriginal name of "Haiti" as the name of the new Noir Republic. But that name implied much more than the western part of "La Espanola or Hispaniola" to him and his people.

Dessalines and those Haitian leaders to come believed that ALL THE ISLAND belonged to the NOIR REPUBLIC.

And for 20 years, from 1822-1844, they did have control over the entire island. Boyer and his people ALMOST achieved the original goal of total island-wide dominance.

But they failed in holding together the various interests that worked against this ultimate goal and in that failure rest the latent but driving force behind covert machinations against the Dominican Republic. De-legitimize the DR as a separate nation-state, "state-less populations" propaganda works wonderfully here as a tactical ploy, and perhaps the goal is achieved without need for violent takeover, unachievable
Written by: Atabey, 24 Feb 2014 4:02 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--



eventhough it was attempted several times after 1844.

But try as they might, and with the Glorious Emperor Faustin I at the helm, the Haitians have failed miserably in their violent historical attempts to take over the Dominican Republic.

Now the attempt becomes clouded in "statelessness" propaganda and the like.


It's way past time Haiti began to address its problems without need to repudiate and attempt to delegitimize the independence of another state in the process.

Haiti for Haitians, DR for Dominicans.

DR can help Haiti, BUT IS NOT THE SALVATION NOR SOLUTION TO HAITI'S PROBLEMS.





Written by: Perception, 24 Feb 2014 4:30 PM
From: United States
"All Living in a Yellow SubMarine".*



"Integration, Cooperation and Fairness".


Above "The Founder Fathers".!!!




Q.***




Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 4:31 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.


Bravo Atabey !!!!

That is exactly right, without a doubt !!!

Written by: Radar, 24 Feb 2014 5:15 PM
From: Dominican Republic

The sky's, the sky's falling..!!!!

Holly chicken little.! What's with all this paranoia about Haitians invading and taking over our territory.?
Y'all making this to be waaaay more than it actually is. I suppose some here must allay their hidden hatred and resentment by faulting everyone but us, by posting venom and hear-say crap that merits nary a second look.

It is ridiculous to think we'd ever be part of Haiti, or that there's some malicious plot to carry this through.! A few of you need to take a hard look at what you've been reading and use common sense in determining if all this hoopla is worth taking seriously.
Written by: Radar, 24 Feb 2014 5:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic

For what is worth, the "Haitian invasion" is nothing more than another natural occurrence, happening all over the world. When people find it difficult to cope with the prevailing situation in their home turf, they move on to safer grounds.
Some Haitians will be given residency, etc. others will be deported and the border will be re-enforced to prevent further encroachments. Take a deep breath and drink a gin-tonic.....relax.

Nothing to get feathers ruffled about.
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 5:24 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Written by: Radar, 24 Feb 2014 5:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic


For what is worth, the "Haitian invasion" is nothing more than another natural occurrence, happening all over the world. When people find it difficult to cope with the prevailing situation in their home turf, they move on to safer grounds.
_______

Join Date: 15 January 2014, 7:07 PM
Member #: 12,547


Radar

you joined the forum on 15 th January 2014.

Your expression above, has been used too often by the Haitians in this forum.

Like a broken record that only Haitians believe.


Which gives me the impression, you are another Haitian, or advocate in disguise.

You are the one that needs to re-examine your train of thought !!


A Haitian busted as an impostor !!!

Written by: Mike36, 24 Feb 2014 5:25 PM
From: Haiti
Report as spam/innapropiate
Written by: bhaitian, 24 Feb 2014 1:28 PM
From: United States
@rokete, you really don't know history
----------------------- that's the main reason I stop dealing with rokete and she have my title for being a idiot
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 5:34 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Something (non human), is upset that I don't answer her posts ?

I only answer post of the people, that I think are worthy of my attention !!!
Written by: PatDiamond, 24 Feb 2014 5:52 PM
From: Botswana, La reconnaissance est une lachete'
Fearfull of the Brownization of America now fully understand and support White America's issue with La Raza. For these mofos breeds like rabbits even the black man who slaved for this country for 300 years whose free labor was the greatest creation of wealth mankind ever known which was the catalyst for the Industrial Age is being priced out the labor force by these phucking migrants.

Anyone trying to say that their people were only victims of the slave trade are actually showing themselves to be a racist bigots -----------------------------------
If you wish to minimized or justify Slavery as it was practiced in the Americas 12years of slavery might be a good movie for you to watch for I doubt you are the reading type or else I would highly suggest reading the book it was based on.
Written by: Radar, 24 Feb 2014 6:37 PM
From: Dominican Republic

"""Which gives me the impression, you are another Haitian, or advocate in disguise"""

I'm an advocate for common sense, and you're a nut case, obsessed with conspiracy theories, which have validity only in your deluded oatmeal mass, you have for a brain.

Your arguments are old and tired. You haven't much to contribute to this forums, other than the same old stupidity. You're another Josean with little say but with huge numbers of posts on "Lie-onel" and the PLD party. You're both very limited in scope of what life in DR's really all about, and haven't the mental capacity to assimilate it intelligently.


Written by: Arcangel96, 24 Feb 2014 6:40 PM
From: Dominican Republic
Really!...of all the slogans this Evangelical Ministry could come up with, the best they could do was "Taking our territory" (Tomando Nuestro Territorio), and none had the common sense to foresee that this will not be well received in DR?? Did someone copyright "Walking with Jesus"??
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 6:46 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Radar

As you keep your mouth full of words.

The letters keep forming facts, against your opinionated arguments !!

In other words, your expressions sink you further into your hole !!!

This same news post, contradicts you !!!!

Your expression above, has been used too often by the Haitians in this forum.

Like a broken record that only Haitians believe.

But you are so smart in your own eyes,

that you cannot tell the difference between facts,

from your own opinions !!!

Common sense has eluded you, it is the least of virtues in your being !!


Common sense
is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by ("common to") nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate.
Written by: rokete, 24 Feb 2014 7:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.


Radar most be dreadlocks in disguise !!!

jajaja
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 24 Feb 2014 8:28 PM
From: United States
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 1:56 PM
From: Dominican Republic, "Respect for our self-determination and sovereignty ... and non-interference in our internal affairs"
bhaitan

Nice attempt to "sugar coat" slavery, but no cigar.
Indenture servant is another misleading "nice word" to try to candy coat the horrible practice of "restavek" still being practiced TODAY in your Haiti cherie, with over 230,000 children, being held hostage, subject to physical punishment, and sexual molestation.
Amounts are well documented, and ratified by the latest UN census of 2010 in Haiti.

Stop with the BS you know full well most restaveks aren't abused. They have a chance to go to school. You know haiti and haitians too well to repeat that bullshit.. There will always be a percentage mistreated because only a parent will truly protect there own children. You know full well "slavery" in Africa was nothing like what was happening in this part of the world. SPEAK THE TRUTH.
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 24 Feb 2014 8:34 PM
From: United States
Written by: Atabey, 24 Feb 2014 2:22 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


bhaitan,


High Time you started to learn good History instead of all that propaganda stuff from the Afro-Centric curriculum you studied.

It's time you learned history and not the "Africans were naked and eating each other crap" WAKE UP. . Even the ASIANS are racist against blacks but never went to war with AFRICANS. White man greatest export is racism against blacks. OK FOOLS. Dig deeper maybe then you'll learn the truth
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 24 Feb 2014 8:43 PM
From: United States
rokhead refers to indentured servants when it comes to whites and his SPaniard ancestors. Mocks restavek and blames Africans. We all know Africans were plied with Alcohol (sounds familiar), mirror, weapons. Sounds familiar drugs/guns/war/pillage.
Written by: Boriquen90, 24 Feb 2014 8:50 PM
From: United States
@Radar

I can concede with some of your points but I also understand the suspicions of some folks here. After all, it does come across as passive-aggressive, IMHO, which is an effective way to stir up Dominican and Haitian tensions but feigning ignorance as to why it would cause a stir.
Written by: Perception, 24 Feb 2014 8:58 PM
From: United States
"African-American History Month".*



"February".


Note: Thanks in Advance With The Research.



L¤¤King.***
Written by: generoso, 24 Feb 2014 10:23 PM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
ignorance

Your statement that; "most restavec children are not abused" and that they go to school, shows not only your state of angry denial, but you live in a surreal illusion, and I quote:

"In pre-earthquake Haiti there were about 250,000 Restavec in Haiti, two-thirds of which are girls. Due to the crushing poverty rate, many poor parents believe the city offers great opportunity and better educational programs for their children. However, that is usually never the case. The young children are offered as servants to families, distant relatives, friends or total strangers. Often, an education or trade is promised for the child. This promise is false.  The average child works from daybreak to sundown on household chores. They have don’t have a childhood, do not receive proper care and have no future. Restavec children are not allowed to go to school – they have no education". -

The link is below, or google "restavec" for more links.

.rfahaiti.org/restavec/
Written by: Perception, 25 Feb 2014 12:04 AM
From: United States
The same is "Practiced" in Dominicana.!!!

Young Childrens of peasants parents are send to live with families to "La Capital".



As "Old" as "Las Carabelas".*


Note: Learn to Cut from Your (Mamaracho) Pants "Before" You Decide to Cut the Skirts of Others.


Mira.***



Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 12:23 AM
From: Dominican Republic

"""I can concede with some of your points but I also understand the suspicions of some folks here""----Boriquen90

Absolutely. Can't say I blame them for getting all leery and such. But what some here are crying about, is that there's a conspiracy afoot for another invasion and fusion of Hispaniola into one. I consider that so ridiculous and improvable that it borders on the insanity.

Another extreme expounded, is that all our shortcomings have, in one way or another, something to do with Haitians. Let's be clear. I'm not saying the extra burden of caring for non-Dominicans isn't affecting our budget, but to say it's the central cause for everything that's hurting us, it's crazy.

We need to face up to the real problems, of which there are many. (including illegals), that retard and impede our journey toward prosperity.
Those that blame others for their failures, do so because they must justify their own ineptitude in getting ahead in life.
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 1:34 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
There are 3 types of people in life, those that make things happen, who wait for things to happen and those who don't know what the hell happen. Are you expecting us to stand there and look, allow the country to gradually disappear, continue to transform itself into the Spanish Rep of Haiti?

Have you not heard, "No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver." Do you really expect native Dominicans to turn a blind eye to what is happening to our country? Surely you don't think that 2 Million illegals in the DR is no big deal? Do you? Just tell me that we are crazy and paranoid and its only in our imagination. Undocumented Haitians in the DR is fantasy. We are seeing things

I am afraid to accuse you of being a fool and you expect Dominicans to be the same. Have you not heard, that "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" Well Dominican will never forget, will always keep alive the vivid memory of everything we suffered and the pain endured under Haitian rule
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 1:43 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

@Radar-"Let's be clear. I'm not saying the extra burden of caring for non-Dominicans isn't affecting our budget, but to say it's the central cause for everything that's hurting us, it's crazy.
----------
Dude, au contraire, it is you who is living in Lala land...no one is blaming Haitians or holding them responsible for our societal ills, but we must admit they certainly have caused an impact on our labor force.

But the issue is far beyond just budgetary concerns, this is about preserving and perpetuating Dominican cultural identity, that if we do not take a proactive approach in its preservation, the DR that we know today will disappear off the face of this earth and eventually become a thing of the past.

And perhaps we will not see its realization during our lifetime, but it will just be a matter of two generations before the transformation takes place, deep roots will develop, spread wide, hold firm to the ground until it will be next to impossible to pull and eradicate
Written by: Arcangel96, 25 Feb 2014 2:25 AM
From: Dominican Republic
Radar,
"But what some here are crying about, is that there's a conspiracy afoot for another invasion and fusion of Hispaniola into one. I consider that so ridiculous and improvable that it borders on the insanity. " Unfortunately, some in Haiti tend to keep these conspiracies alive intentionally or not. For example,

"The time has come for Haitians to have free access to the Dominican Republic, because the so-called frontier which supposedly divides us is a myth."

"dominicantoday.com/dr/poverty/2011/2/24/38713/Dominican-Republic-Haiti-fusion-imminent-like-it-or-not"

or google....

"Haitian president Michel Martelly wants to unify Haiti and Dominican Republic"

or....well...these t-shirts!
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 25 Feb 2014 6:38 AM
From: United States
Written by: Perception, 25 Feb 2014 12:04 AM
From: United States
The same is "Practiced" in Dominicana.!!!

Young Childrens of peasants parents are send to live with families to "La Capital".



As "Old" as "Las Carabelas".*


Note: Learn to Cut from Your (Mamaracho) Pants "Before" You Decide to Cut the Skirts of Others.


Mira.***

general,

I think I have more to say on the subject then some link. I don't deny abuse happens because children are vulnerable. ONLY PARENTS WILL TRULY PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN. This propaganda to paint restavec as SLAVERY minimizes the natives and africans that were in chains and treated like chatel. Minimizes the millions that died fighting against this practice.
Written by: bhaitian, 25 Feb 2014 9:55 AM
From: United States
@Radar, please keep posting
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 10:48 AM
From: Dominican Republic

"""" Just tell me that we are crazy and paranoid and its only in our imagination. Undocumented Haitians in the DR is fantasy. We are seeing things"""".

OK.....You're all crazy and paranoid. .. You're all blowing this out of proportion. You're freaking out because of our long bloody history and are certain that'll repeat itself.

These are modern times we live in. If we can stand back and look at the whole picture, we, with a high degree of certainty, can see that Haitians in DR will not take over our government, nor displace us out of our territory. It's highly improvable our government, and/or people, will allow even a hint of any such thing.

They have, to an extent, been beneficial to our economy, and have helped push the drive toward modernization. If not for them, our subway, many buildings, and other vital infrastructure may not have been built as quickly and as cheaply.
Don't believe it? Ask Diandino, our subway's chief architect.
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 11:03 AM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
"They have, to an extent, been beneficial to our economy, and have helped push the drive toward modernization. If not for them, our subway, many buildings, and other vital infrastructure may not have been built as quickly and as cheaply."
------------------------------------------------------------
Well thanks for such a FASTASTIC sales pitch and preaching about the GREAT virtues of the Haitian labor force in the DR. Had it not been for them who knows what would have happened, the DR will most certainly cease to exist. Haitians are our life blood and we need more of them. In fact we have 2 million already, why don't we just simply ask for more. I just don't know and can't figure out how we managed all of these years without their massive presence. You know Haitians are of such great benefit to the DR that perhaps a merge of both nations might not be such as bad idea after all. No wonder Haiti built such a great nation. The DR needs their expertise for survival, otherwise we're dead
Written by: bhaitian, 25 Feb 2014 11:16 AM
From: United States
@guillermone, what is the number and be truthful two hundred thousand , one million, two million fifteen million ,twenty trillion
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 11:18 AM
From: Dominican Republic

If what you're worrying most about is Haitians taking roots, spreading their culture, language and race into our nation, well, too late, it's already here. And it's our own fault.

for years, our government's lax attitude and tolerance have rendered our border non-existent. Now we have a huge problem in repatriating most illegals and the international crowd is crying bloody murder because of it.

If we are to make sense of what is happening today, we need to start looking at the pros and cons and finding some sort of middle ground. If not, Martelly and co. will continue to blow this into an international conflict which is, and continues to hurt us in many ways.

If not handled properly, it's not out of the question the US and Europe may impose sanctions and force our hand into a compromise we could not stand.
This is why I keep insisting we resolve this difficult situation with a cool head and a moderate approach...If not, we can be in for a long, dirty mess.
Written by: USADR, 25 Feb 2014 11:29 AM
From: United States
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 10:48 AM
From: Dominican Republic.

OK.....You're all crazy and paranoid. .. You're all blowing this out of proportion. You're freaking out because of our long bloody history and are certain that'll repeat itself.

___________________________________________________________________________-
^

@ Radar,

While I do I agree with keeping a cool head about this and not blowing it out of proportion, the thoughts many Dominicans have about this issue is not totally unreasonable considering not just merely Haiti's historical aggression against DR.
One wonders what would be the perception of a Dominican evangelical church decided to go preach its message in Haiti, with Dominicans wearing t-shirts saying 'Kicking out the invaders" or 'Get out of our territory" and then say it means something else (kicking out Satan and his demons, etc.).
Based on the long history of hypocritical double standards, I doubt everyone would be so 'open minded".
Written by: venganzaderafael, 25 Feb 2014 11:45 AM
From: United States
One only needs to look at the situation on the ground to realize things are AGAIN moving to confrontation with haitians due to there unwanted presence in Dominican territory.

Goodhearted but uninformed or forgetful of the past individuals may just see this as a natural phenomenon of people moving to greener pastures. This situation with the haitians ,however , is not your run of the mill "go west young man" to quote an 18th century call for western expansion by the US. (To the detriment of Mexicans and native Indians already there).

To add to guillermone's quote about repeating the past by ignoring it may I add the one that says:
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ME !"

Radar my brother, this is actually the 13th time in 213 yrs we have faced a mass invasion of haitians into our territory. I can detail them, but suffice to say that I as well as many Dominicans are looking at this present population shift with alarm and will continue to do so.

Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 11:53 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

This is for all Dominicans to reflect, on the Hispaniola Hidden Fusion Agenda.

This is not for the Haitians they already know it is happening

This is for Dominicans who still carry a brain in their heads to think with.

Haitians are simply being used by the USA and UK, even Canada and France.

Reason behind it, there is massive Oil and Gold in the island.


youtube.com/watch?v=veEKuRjGR1Y

youtube.com/watch?v=kvaU-4zZwis

youtube.com/watch?v=10TmN34BF1U


The Hispaniolla Fusion can never happen, without Dominican consent.
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 12:00 PM
From: Dominican Republic

""""Well thanks for such a FASTASTIC sales pitch and preaching about the GREAT virtues of the Haitian labor force in the DR"""

Guillermone, I'm not here to convince any one you, of such. I understand the anger and frustration. This is something that concerns me, as well. I'm not pro-Haitian, I'm a Dominican who loves his country and wants to preserve all that it stands for.

Many approaches to resolving and restoring our national identity can get us into a bigger mess. I'm talking about emotional cries for massive deportation, shutting the border tight and, as some have suggested, building an impenetrable wall, all along. We must stop this nonsense about nationalism and radical stance in fixing this vexing situation.

We can gain much from people everywhere in the world.. In fact, I predict our nation (if we use our collective heads), will prosper so much that we'll have to contend with an influx from many peoples, whose labor and expertise, we can greatly benefit from.
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 12:02 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Written by: bhaitian, 25 Feb 2014 11:16 AM
From: United States

@guillermone, what is the number and be truthful two hundred thousand , one million, two million fifteen million ,twenty trillion
--------------------------------------------
The exact number is unknown. But we know for a fact the amount is above the 1 million mark. The constant cross the border movement, the never ending cat and mouse chase with border patrol and the revolving door transient Haitian population makes it next to impossible to pin point a firm figure. However, we don't need a census to see for our own eyes, that there is a heavy Haitian presence all over the DR. You see them in groups, most times in pairs or groups of 4 roaming the streets. They are everywhere and there is no reason to doubt that the figure could easily reach the 2 million mark.
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 12:05 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

This is for all Dominicans to reflect, on the Hispaniola Hidden Fusion Agenda.

This is not for the Haitians they already know it is happening

This is for Dominicans who still carry a brain in their heads to think with.

Haitians are simply being used by the USA and UK, even Canada and France.

Reason behind it, there is massive Oil and Gold in the island.


youtube.com/watch?v=veEKuRjGR1Y

youtube.com/watch?v=kvaU-4zZwis

youtube.com/watch?v=10TmN34BF1U


The Hispaniolla Fusion can never happen, without Dominican consent.
Written by: venganzaderafael, 25 Feb 2014 12:07 PM
From: United States
As far as it being too late to do anything about it without international sanctions being imposed I refuse to be intimidated as I know the majority of my countrymen won't either.
No matter what depravations we may face by hypocritical international entities we know one thing:

We will never starve in Quisquella !

I will be home for good within 3-5 years to share my compatriots struggles. I am preparing and I am not coming alone.
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 12:09 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

This the plan for Hispaniola Fusion !!

Pacific invasion and cultural assimilation !!


Cultural assimilation

is the process by which a person or a group's language and, or culture come to resemble those of another group. The term is used both to refer to both individuals and groups, and in the latter case it can refer to either immigrant diasporas or native residents that come to be culturally dominated by another society. Assimilation may involve either a quick or gradual change depending on circumstances of the group.
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 12:54 PM
From: Dominican Republic

"""""We will never starve in Quisquella ! """""

What are you talking about.!? We're already starving, and things can get much worse.
One aspect of our approach in dealing with this mess, is our future potential growth, depending on how good we play our hand, and the benefit or consequence resulting from it.

Must I remind you of the massive commerce involved with Haiti? ..And exports to other countries which can affect our well-being? ...And how about foreign investments.? Do they want to deal with a perceived racist, blatant human rights abuser.?...I think not.! This why I preach caution and a cool approach to getting our cake and eating it, too.!!

As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat". Your radical ways do not compute.
It takes guile, courage, smarts, patience, and a bit of luck to emerge with a clean face and an intact, growing economy. Hear.?
Written by: generoso, 25 Feb 2014 1:08 PM
From: Dominican Republic, +Sorry, No Habla Stupid+
Ignoranceisbliss

We have to differentiate POV (Points of View) from reality. The practice of restavec, is a form of modern day slavery. There is absolutely no justification for allowing it. It is wrong, and it violates the human rights of defenseless children, which is worse.
Only a nutcase like Perception, (lost in translation), wearing a straightjacket and pressing the keyboard with his toes, attempts to justify such an abominable practice, by stating that restavec is also practiced in the DR.
No one is comparing restavec with slavery of the 18 TH century, but it is still a form of modern slavery, and inhuman exploitation.
Self righteousness, indignation, and anger, will not advance the Haitian cause, that blames everybody else for all their ills, and in the process fail to look within, for the causes of over 200 years of suffering of the Haitian nation.
The ill advised Haitian government in their desperation, has alienated the DR once again.
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 1:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.



((((((((((((( NATIONALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BUSINESS !! ))))))))))))))



Better to to be poor and survive as a nation,

than to disappear as rich nation,

like the ancient Etruscan.


(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( BY CULTURAL ASSIMILATION !! )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 1:48 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat". Your radical ways do not compute.
It takes guile, courage, smarts, patience, and a bit of luck to emerge with a clean face and an intact, growing economy. Hear.?
________

To proceed with caution is wise and I agree. However, that is not the undertone of your message. Instead, you have been preaching a passive "do nothing" attitude, sit still, wait for things to work out for themselves and everything will be alright. You state that the Haitian presence is neither a problem nor a threat and accuse us of suffering from some sort mental or emotional disorder. When if fact the reality is precisely that, because of our inaction and apathy, the DR finds in its present state. The only two people who attempted to take corrective action was Trujillo, but his methodology backfired. The most prudent was Balaguer who knew exactly how to handle things and it was only after his death when the invasion resume once again
Written by: Perception, 25 Feb 2014 2:06 PM
From: United States
"La Isla Alreves".


By. Joaquin Balaguer Ricardo.


"Inconvenience and Unavoidable Truth".


"Integration (Duarte), Cooperation (Sanchez) y Fairness (Mella)".



MamaRacho.!!!




Mira.***
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 2:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Still dreaming of a fusion

(((((((( Distortion in Perception ))))))))

Dominican Unification

Haitian Illegals Deportation

Continued as ONE

DOMINICANIZATION !!!

L@@K

LISTEN (((

IRREVOCABLE !!
Written by: ignoranceisbliss, 25 Feb 2014 3:20 PM
From: United States
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 12:02 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Written by: bhaitian, 25 Feb 2014 11:16 AM
From: United States

@guillermone, what is the number and be truthful two hundred thousand , one million, two million fifteen million ,twenty trillion
--------------------------------------------
The exact number is unknown. But we know for a fact the amount is above the 1 million mark. The constant cross the border movement, the never ending cat and mouse chase with border patrol and the revolving door transient Haitian population makes it next to impossible to pin point a firm figure. However, we don't need a census to see for our own eyes, that there is a heavy Haitian presence all over the DR. You see them in groups, most times in pairs or groups of 4 roaming the streets. They are everywhere and there is no reason to doubt that the figure could easily reach the 2 million mark.

these guys know more then the president of DR
Written by: Perception, 25 Feb 2014 3:27 PM
From: United States
"TradeWinds"


Beyond The Horizon.


Social Justice.*



Free Dom.***
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 3:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic

""You have been preaching a passive "do nothing" attitude, sit still, wait for things to work out for themselves and everything will be alright.'''--Guillermone.--

I said no such thing.
What you, et, al, are clamoring is for is a rash solution to a very sensitive situation, which requires tact and patience.
We need to resolve this in conjunction with other nations so that, in the end, it won't come back and bite us in the ass.
Mr. Martelly & Co. must be made the principle defendant in this breach of responsibility to his people, and we must demand his full cooperation to find a good, quick, and mutually agreeable resolution.

The armed forces must be tasked with guarding our sovereignty and penalized for its failures.
Illegals must be given an opportunity to come forward and register. Those that can show cause for DR residency, will be documented and allowed to stay. Others, will be deported.
Failure to report will automatically disqualify anyone, and if caught, deported.
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 3:42 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


"We need to resolve this in conjunction with other nations so that, in the end, it won't come back and bite us in the ass.

Mr. Martelly & Co. must be made the principle defendant in this breach of responsibility to his people, and we must demand his full cooperation to find a good, quick, and mutually agreeable resolution."



Agreed 100%




Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 3:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic

Y'all don't seem to understand that our strategy for the resolution in this delicate matter, is of absolute vitality to our nation's future economy, political orientation, and repute in the eyes of the world.
If you had any common sense, the emotional nationalist flame, could be substituted for a cold, practical strategy which could, not only benefit all, but helps us in the short run, to rid ourselves of the unneeded and unwanted.
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 3:54 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


"Those that can show cause for DR residency, will be documented and allowed to stay. Others, will be deported.Failure to report will automatically disqualify anyone, and if caught, deported."

Agree, 100%.

Please keep in mind that even if this were to take place, the results would be catastrophic for Haiti.
First, it would mean many thousands, tens of thousands of people, being sent back home. There are over 1 million Haitians laboring in the DR economy and more outside the formal economy, including children. If those that can not show cause for DR residency are numbered, they represent a large group of illegals, plus the many who have recently arrived, say in the last 5 years or so.
This group will slowly be transitioned back into Haiti and will bring ENORMOUS PRESSURE to bear on Martelly and CO.

That is why Haiti has been trying to undermine DR's foreign policy on this issue.

De facto "Fusion" is Haiti's long term strategic goal to resurrect her Historic failure
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 4:02 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 3:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic

"I said no such thing."
-------------------------------------------
Although you did not directly said it, it was most certainly implied.
But now I see a sort of change of tone.
Remember you said that there was no cause for alarm and among other things, also praised the virtues of an illegal Haitian workforce.

But now I see that you are making suggestions and offering solutions,
and in order to do that it means you admit there is a very serious problems with Haitians.

Well THANK YOU for finally coming out and admitting to that.
Now does that make you CRAZY too like the rest of us or what?
Well welcome to the club and I will see you in therapy.
Written by: USADR, 25 Feb 2014 4:22 PM
From: United States
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 3:52 PM
From: Dominican Republic

Y'all don't seem to understand that our strategy for the resolution in this delicate matter, is of absolute vitality to our nation's future economy, political orientation, and repute in the eyes of the world.
If you had any common sense, the emotional nationalist flame, could be substituted for a cold, practical strategy which could, not only benefit all, but helps us in the short run, to rid ourselves of the unneeded and unwanted.
^

@ Radar,

What are your thoughts on the recent immigration act passed by the Swiss?
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 4:25 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 4:02 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 3:38 PM
From: Dominican Republic

"I said no such thing."
-------------------------------------------
Although you did not directly said it, it was most certainly implied.
But now I see a sort of change of tone.
Remember you said that there was no cause for alarm and among other things, also praised the virtues of an illegal Haitian workforce.

But now I see that you are making suggestions and offering solutions,
and in order to do that it means you admit there is a very serious problems with Haitians.

Well THANK YOU for finally coming out and admitting to that.
Now does that make you CRAZY too like the rest of us or what?
Well welcome to the club and I will see you in therapy.
_______________

Guille

That was one of your best post ever.

It is called being very WISE and PERPICACEOUS !!


BTW: Welcome to the LOCO club RADAR !!
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 4:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic

""Please keep in mind that even if this were to take place, the results would be catastrophic for Haiti."''

Absolutely.! And I feel for them. So what are we to do.?
First and foremost, The UN's council for refugees, must be made keenly aware that we can't support them and it's not our problem alone to solve.
We must stand at the dais and declare our incompetence and lack of resources to resolution something that belong in the world's stage.

We must plead full cooperation from Haiti itself, and the powerful nations to effort a change by any means available, or we may be compelled to forcibly expel everyone of them, indiscriminately.

Everyone must be made fully and clearly aware that the situation is intolerable. That it cannot go on forever, and we can not surface for air with such a weight holding us down.

The world must be put on notice: We will do what is necessary to survive. And sometimes survival can take a violent turn.
Written by: Perception, 25 Feb 2014 5:06 PM
From: United States
And Survival can take a "Violent" Turn.?



Vice-Versa.!!!




TheWalk.***
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 5:11 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Sure, in my perception, like 1937!!
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 5:27 PM
From: Dominican Republic

""But now I see that you are making suggestions and offering solutions,
and in order to do that it means you admit there is a very serious problems with Haitians.""

I did not said it wasn't.
My stance in solutioning was that of a peaceful and practical one which included everyone involved, not one implementing unilateral decisions.
Mostly always there's a better way to get anywhere, if only one dialogues the issue.
Most here want to jump into the "corral the illegals" and deport them, crowd.

Not a good thing for DR, as it would bring unpredictable consequences, and end up worse off than if we processed them, and methodically began documentation and deportation, and in time, put order in our immigration policies.

If we find that in the end common sense does not prevail, them other drastic means are to be considered. For now, let's not go crazy.


Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 5:38 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum

Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 4:49 PM
From: Dominican Republic

"We must plead full cooperation from Haiti itself, and the powerful nations to effort a change by any means available, or we may be compelled to forcibly expel everyone of them, indiscriminately."

"The world must be put on notice: We will do what is necessary to survive. And sometimes survival can take a violent turn."
------------------------------------------
Wait a minute...........where did that come from?.............man..........now that is what you call a 360° turn, a total and complete reversal of direction. Has he gone MAD...........?????
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 6:10 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Maybe reality sink in, thanks to Perception ? Probably !
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 6:22 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


Absolutely.! And I feel for them.

So what are we to do.?

First and foremost, The UN's council for refugees, must be made keenly aware that we can't support them and it's not our problem alone to solve. (Radar)


I wish it were that simple. Back in the 1990s, and you ca check this with Lautaro, the USA tried to set up Refugee Camps across the Caribbean Basin to house "temporarily" Haitian's fleeing diastase. The USA tried but was unable to get ANY country to agree in total with its plan. Colombia, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, all said "Thanks, but no thanks" to helping out.

Balaguer's response was "Why don't you (USA) invest those funds and set up those camps INSIDE HAITI ?

I've stated on many occasions that the Haitian Quagmire needs an International Solution. I've even mentioned that a Francophone Initiative along side a Western Hemisphere Pact could offer a unique way forward. Each group would allow a certain number of Haitians

Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 6:24 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--

to move inside their respective spheres. With the numbers being divided up, say more to larger countries like say, the USA, Brazil, Mexico, etc., and less numbers going to DR, Panama, Costa Rica, etc. And the Francophone countries could do likewise, too.

The time to have envisioned and put to the test this initiative was right after the tragic events of Jan 2010. The World could have mobilized to further this "Shared Burden" However, this never came to be, and the fall back position was to seek the solution INSIDE HISPANIOLA.

To the surrounding countries this fall back position offered a better option: no need to go through what happened in Panama when the President secretly agreed to house Haitian boat people, ON AN ISLAND, when the Panamanian people gained knowledge of the secret dealings they briefly staged a popular revolt that quickly changed the position of the president of Panama.

Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 6:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic

Has he gone MAD...........????

No, I'm still sane. What you fail to understand is that when dialogue and compromise does not solution the issue at hand, then, and only then, can we consider the alternative to peace and common sense. We must,-- generally speaking-- result to war when no other viable alternatives can be found.

I'm merely presenting ALL possibilities to solutioning a conflict.
There are only three alternatives. One, we talk. If that doesn't work, and we want peace for the sake of peace, then (two), we must live with it....The final solution is an all-out war. We may emerge victorious or not, but always at a cost, a high price in terms of lives and destruction... Who wants that?

This is why, instead of bickering and poking and picking our minds, and questioning our intelligence and sanity, we should explore possibilities and see if we can guess what our government, Haiti, and the rest of the world will do to find the key path to this impasse.
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 6:43 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Like I said before. Waiting with patience, shrugging off the Haitian mockery. Waiting to see what the government is going to resolve. When the Dominican people react with violence, this should be done, at an all out, to put an end to Haitian invasion activities forever. All the Dominican traitor including those in the media should be put on a firing squad, as an example for future generations !!
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 6:48 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--
Radar:

"We must stand at the dais and declare our incompetence and lack of resources to resolution something that belong in the world's stage.

"We must plead full cooperation from Haiti itself, and the powerful nations to effort a change by any means available, or we may be compelled to forcibly expel everyone of them, indiscriminately."

Pleading with the Haitian leadership WILL NOT get you anything of value. Their position is to deflect the problems unto others, NEVER ACCEPT responsibility for the problems at hand NOR HEAVEN FORBID responsibility for RESOLVING their OWN problems. They have used the border with the DR as a safety valve for generations, why change?

The million plus people that Haiti has been able to move across the border into DR is a GREAT SUCCESS from the Haitian leadership perspective: It translates into 1 million plus LESS MOUTHS TO FEED, CLOTH, SHELTER, AND OFFER OPPORTUNITIES FOR A BETTER FUTURE.

That weight falls on the shoulders of the DR.

Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 7:00 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


"Everyone must be made fully and clearly aware that the situation is intolerable. That it cannot go on forever, and we can not surface for air with such a weight holding us down.

The world must be put on notice: We will do what is necessary to survive. And sometimes survival can take a violent turn." -- Radar


Here I believe you state a VERY IMPORTANT POINT:

DR's Diplomacy has been nearly a perfect 0 when it comes to explaining this situation and gaining world-wide support for action.

Balaguer, the PRD, the PLD have NOT deployed any real substantive National Policy Initiative with a coherent International Stance to back the National Policy regarding the matter of Haitian illegals. And it's paying the price for not having done so in these last 50 years or so (since 1965-6).

We still don't know what was negotiated during the first PLD administration regarding the Haitian Quagmire. Did LF agree to allow a "soft border" policy in exchange for US cooperation?


Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 7:02 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--

What about the Hippo Years?

And the return of LF for two more terms?

What exactly were the quid pro quo in regards to the Haitian Quagmire?



Let's see what Medina states on the 27th. It should be interesting.



Written by: XxMolotovCocktailxX, 25 Feb 2014 7:19 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Sabana iglesia,Santiago
"I've stated on many occasions that the Haitian Quagmire needs an International Solution. I've even mentioned that a Francophone Initiative along side a Western Hemisphere Pact could offer a unique way forward. Each group would allow a certain number of Haitians " @Abatey, That's a nice plan and all but whats to stop the Haitian population from exploding again? Something needs to be done about the rabbit-esque birthrates.The Haitian government needs to get serious about this problem,Or I should say the UN since the Haitian government is completely incompetent along with the Haitian people who seem to care more about our problems and about protesting our government than their own.It's almost like a self sabotage to stay in poverty.
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 8:58 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--
That's a nice plan and all but whats to stop the Haitian population from exploding again? Something needs to be done about the rabbit-esque birthrates."



Once the shock of having all your yearly population growth rate go aboard and then some, the Haitian birth rate problem can be tackled by the same old formula: National primary and secondary educational opportunities for all children. Once you educate children en masse, especially the girls, the population growth rate goes down significantly.

Haiti needs time to heal from its historic failures. A population transfer of say 4-6 million over 20 years time would help Haiti achieve this stability.

And if many countries were to SHARE THE BURDEN, the numbers are doable.

Per Year

20 K to USA, 10 K to Brazil, 10 K to Mexico, 7.5 K to Canada, and all the rest 5 K with the tiny islands getting say 1 K (Although I would wish them more for all their nonsense) :)

The Francophone nations do likewise and you'll have the n
Written by: Atabey, 25 Feb 2014 9:08 PM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--


My calculations read: 106,000 Haitian visas per year times 20 years yield close to 2.12 million people.

If the Francophone nations get involved and take another 106,000 Haitians per year, then another 2.12 million in twenty years.

4, 240,000 Haitians or enough to stabilize Haiti in twenty years time.


A truly SHARED BURDEN by the International Community.




Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 11:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic


""A truly SHARED BURDEN by the International Community. """"

Alright, but Do they keep on multiplying with no responsibility for their "actions".? And what is their role in prospering their nation? Do we absolve them of any wrong-doing and excuse their behavior because they are poor and ignorant??....Hell, no.!!!
We can't give more than we have, and they need to understand that....We won't , can't do enough to get their house in order.! Not our responsibility...... Oh, heck. Seal the border..!!




Written by: guillermone, 25 Feb 2014 11:15 PM
From: United States, Bring Back DT Forum
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 6:29 PM
From: Dominican Republic

Has he gone MAD...........????

No, I'm still sane. What you fail to understand is that when dialogue and compromise does not solution the issue at hand, then, and only then, can we consider the alternative to peace and common sense. We must,-- generally speaking-- result to war when no other viable alternatives can be found.
----------------------------------------------------
Au contraire mon frère, I understand perfectly and I totally agree and happy to have you on our side along with the rest of the us in crazylandia. Welcome Home and glad to see you as part of the family of nuts.
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 11:47 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Nuts for our Quisqueya La Bella !!!

No if, and, or buts about it !!

Yo me Dominicanizo,

cuando suena la tambora !!

Dominicani, Dominicanizado !!!

DOMINICANO SOY !!!!

Y Cibaeno por la gracia de Dios !!
Written by: rokete, 25 Feb 2014 11:48 PM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.
Editado
Written by: Atabey, 26 Feb 2014 12:00 AM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--
Written by: Radar, 25 Feb 2014 11:03 PM
From: Dominican Republic


""A truly SHARED BURDEN by the International Community. """"

Alright, but Do they keep on multiplying with no responsibility for their "actions".? And what is their role in prospering their nation?

Do we absolve them of any wrong-doing and excuse their behavior because they are poor and ignorant??....Hell, no.!!!

We can't give more than we have, and they need to understand that....We won't , can't do enough to get their house in order.! Not our responsibility...... Oh, heck. Seal the border..!!"



Look, if this International Effort were put into place, Haiti would then have sufficient time to get its act together. Knocking off 4 million people in 20 years would create a small depopulation of Haiti over those 20 years, and if educational reform were sustained over time, the birth rate would decrease significantly from what it is today. Educated females DON'T have many children, the norm is 1 or two.
Written by: Atabey, 26 Feb 2014 12:03 AM
From: United States, Bring DT Forum Back--

Also, within the twenty year effort, Haiti would have time to get its house under control. Without the pressing need of overpopulation to contend with, Haiti could enact all the necessary programs and policies to forge economic relations that would sustain a real substantive economic revival across the board.
Written by: Radar, 26 Feb 2014 12:09 AM
From: Dominican Republic

""Welcome Home and glad to see you as part of the family of nuts. ""

I'm not nutty, I swear.!! My analyst does not know what sshe talks about.!... It's all about my "condition". What does she know.? I'm perfectly sane, I tell you...!!!

Perception:

Nutty

Yum.

Puss

fish.

odor?

No, good.

l00k.

Written by: rokete, 26 Feb 2014 12:11 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

This is for all Dominicans to reflect, on the Hispaniola Hidden Fusion Agenda.

This is not for the Haitians they already know it is happening

This is for Dominicans who still carry a brain in their heads to think with.

Haitians are simply being used by the USA and UK, even Canada and France.

Reason behind it, there is massive Oil and Gold in the island.


youtube.com/watch?v=veEKuRjGR1Y

youtube.com/watch?v=kvaU-4zZwis

youtube.com/watch?v=10TmN34BF1U

youtube.com/watch?v=m9VRqWzosp0


The Hispaniolla Fusion can never happen, without Dominican consent.
Written by: Radar, 26 Feb 2014 12:45 AM
From: Dominican Republic

I don't know, Atabey. I've been mulling over this issue and have come to think that, maybe I'm not as sane as I thought. Can't seem to make heads or tails of it, and perhaps this is something too complicated for my limited understandings and how it relates to the real world.
I may have to give my analyst equal time and see if she'll give me the "go ahead" to further post in this forum. I have to be very careful about whom I relate and associate with. There are people out to get me. I must hide.....for a while. maybe a drink, or five will help.





shssssss.
Written by: rokete, 26 Feb 2014 2:18 AM
From: Dominican Republic, (( DEPORT THE HAITIANS, BUILD THE BORDER WALL ! )) The only thing necessary for the triumph of Haitian evil is for good Dominican men to do nothing.

Estamos todos locos, pero no pendejos !!



La fusion de la Espanola NO se da, sin el concentimiento de los Dominicanos.

Solo seda si los Dominicanos nos dejamos cojer de pendejos,

y no reaccionamos repudiandola !!!



"Entre Dominicana y Haiti es imposible una fusion "

Juan Pablo Duarte Diez

IRREVOCABLE AND DEFINITIVE !!
Written by: Perception, 27 Feb 2014 4:45 PM
From: United States
Between Dominicans and Haitians there is "Quisqueya".


"One".*




TheWalk.***
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