I understand now how anger, like the aftershocks of an earthquake or a deadly virus, reproduces itself, spreads outward from a point of origin, touching even those who believed themselves on the margins of the disaster zone. If I trace my fingers along my collarbone, I can find the exact point of infection: a small burn on my neck where my gold necklace bit into my skin as a man on a motorcycle ripped it off through the window of the guagua and turned an otherwise ordinary morning commute into a day I will remember for the small internal death of my innocence.
I feel your anger now, people of the Dominican Republic.
But let me rewind a bit. I’ve experienced the full spectrum of life in this country since my first visit in 2001. I’ve done the resort thing, but I’ve also done the batey thing. A scar on the back of my leg bears permanent witness to your fascination with barbed wire. In 2005 I learned not to trust your police when a drunk, off-duty officer threatened me with his gun after I hit his motorcycle with the door of a taxi. I’ve lived without running water for ten weeks, experienced the frustration of rolling blackouts, had a rental car stolen, and have now had two different apartments broken into. I’ve also felt the exhilaration of riding in the back of a pickup truck through the mountains, rocked your children to sleep in my arms, floated on the waves beneath a brilliant deep blue sky, danced merengue and downed frosty Presidentes in corner colmados all across Santo Domingo, acknowledged the hisses and whistles of your men with a patient smile.
I’ve played by your rules, and given you the benefit of the doubt after every robbery, every scare. I didn’t have to come back a third time or make any kind of concerted attempt to understand, help or love your country – but I did, in good faith, because I wanted to. I naively assumed that history counted for something, exempted me from further harm.
All of it was obliterated in the moment I felt a stranger’s dry fingers on my neck, saw through the window of the guagua a young face, curiously detached, as though unaware of the violence his hand was engaged in. It struck me as equally strange that he was wearing a helmet; that even petty thieves remember to prioritize their safety before they set about their morning’s work.
The anger took effect almost immediately. As I got the scolding of my life from six different women on the guagua, my mind was occupied with evil wishes – I hope he falls off his bike; no, I hope he gets hit by a car; no, an oil tanker; I hope all the police are able to recover from the flaming wreckage are that stupid helmet, a couple of teeth, and the gold pendant he ripped off a white girl earlier that morning – that eventually spread outwards, gathering others into my personal hell. I wanted to slap the crazy biddies telling me it was my fault, wanted to deliver a hard kick to the groin of the fruit vendor who had the misfortune of hissing at me on the corner of Churchill and Correo, wanted to inflict the exact mental and emotional pain I was experiencing on every person I passed.
By the end of the day, it wasn’t just the thief I was angry with, but the whole of the human condition, the entire messed up global economic and social system that led this one man to feel he had no other choice that morning but to assault a total stranger for a piece of jewelry that had more sentimental than monetary value.
A few days have passed, and I’ve downgraded my revenge fantasies to consist of the thief’s girlfriend rejecting her new love token because it actually features a graduation hat and scroll – unless she’s a recent alumnus of the UASD, in which case I’ll just shut up. But I didn’t just lose a necklace; I lost my peace of mind, and so I can’t let you, people of the Dominican Republic, off the hook this time.
First of all, I know I’m white. I don’t need to be reminded of that fact by every other person I pass on the street. I’m also not “Americana,” and I don’t owe you anything simply because I’m a foreigner. You know as well as I do that stealing my money and my valuables isn’t going to improve your overall welfare. In fact, letting me keep my money and spend it in your stores and restaurants is a better approach to furthering your own economic development, as is refraining from abusing visitors to your country who are in a position to influence others’ decisions about whether or not to visit.
Secondly, it’s not fair to act out your anger at the privilege I seem to embody by violating my right to freedom from fear. I’m as much a part of the system as you are, but I’m not single-handedly responsible for your relative poverty. I’m here because I want to understand how the lifestyle I enjoy in Canada affects your lives in turn, so that when I go back home I can change my behavior, consume less and rethink my priorities, and give my friends and family tangible reasons why they should do the same.
Finally, you have a responsibility to your own neighbors and fellow citizens. Something is deeply wrong with a society where it seems every person I talk to has been mugged, robbed, raped, or threatened at least once in their lives, usually more. I feel your collective anger; I’ve been inducted into it. I’ve experienced the temptation to inflict it on others in turn, but I’d rather share your grief and frustration and stand in solidarity with you.
Written by: NYC, 12 Nov 2007 2:57 PM
From: NYC
What???
Whao, my hat is off to you, my mother almost crucified me for taking mass transportation twice in the capital. After reading your story, I see her point NOW.
I am very sorry that you had to endure such horrible experiences in the DR.
I guess you have sort of experience what being a minority feels like.
I am in agreement with you as to their lack of understanding for being good neighbors/hosts.
continue...
Its not an experience I would like to have.
You se
Written by: NYC, 12 Nov 2007 3:04 PM
From: NYC
I cannot apologize for an entire nation.
I will try to explain: The rules are if you have money, you are exempt from being punished for whatever you do.
If you have no money and no name then you are just like everyone else. The saying is "without a godfather you cannot get baptized." The things that happened to you had they happened to a godchild your necklace would have been found in a matter of hours and the person would have been PUNISHED with jail and/or a major beating.
continue
Written by: NYC, 12 Nov 2007 3:23 PM
From: NYC
It doesnt matter where you got the money, just that you got it is what matters.The moral values are low to non existing, there is at least 1 alcoholic in every household. The gov't punishes people for stealing a chicken but not for robbing millions of pesos on white collar crimes. The education is deplorable and the prof's leave a lot to be desired. The dom. that live here, go back to spin easy money stories that make the people there more bitter & hateful of their own people and foreigners.
Written by: NYC, 12 Nov 2007 3:27 PM
From: NYC
Thanks for not holding grudges for their lack of understanding.
We are a nation of work in process.
:)
Written by: miguel, 12 Nov 2007 4:39 PM
From: samana
We foreigners seem to share quite similar experiences, life in the DR is made up the very best and the very worst things in life. my last stay was a solid 2 years without leaving and that was too long, little things that you normally blow off build up until BAM!, the comment from was correct it doesnt matter how you get the money its that you have it. its an awesome place but it does have its sad moments
Written by: Realidad, 12 Nov 2007 4:57 PM
From: maimi
Animales son animales.
Written by: Jesse , 12 Nov 2007 11:11 PM
From: NYC
I understand where you’re coming from, but you have to put yourselfer in his shoes. I know people must have said this to you and I know it sucks to here it, but it’s true. If you don’t have nothing to give your family, there are no jobs, no opportunities no one to lend you a hand, you will resort to such things. If anything be piss at al the corrupt leaders that don’t do anythin. for our people to become decent citizens. O and about the “hisses and whistles” thing… it’s a culture thing lol..J/K!
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 9:14 AM
From: pop
Jesse asserts that people in desperate financial circumstance will resort to barbarities such as this in order to survive. firstly, neither he nor i can identify the motivations of this individual. maybe he was hungry, or had some life altering financial emergency. but then again, maybe it is part of a larger disorder.he could very well be from that part of the population that is allergic to work; the guys who can be found in neighborhood bars dancing the bachata at 11am, swilling down copious
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 9:19 AM
From: pop
contd,
quantities of presidente. these types have no sense of personal responsibility. they perceive themselves to be everybody elses responsibility; they impregnate women and hope for gringo to come and support their offspring.they get a job and show up whenever they feel so inclined. and if they do earn a few pesos, they blow it all in fifteen minutes, with not a care for tomorrow. these types are more inimical to society than the POOR. these are criminal actors, useless as citizens.
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 9:24 AM
From: pop
contd,
they actally think it is clever to rip stuff off, and brag about their acumen in theft and larceny. but guess what; they have very good examples set by the political establisnment in how to get ahead on the minimum of effort. ther are poor people in every society; however, you can go to countries in the world wherein such debasements do not occur. i suggest you go to Barbados or other eastern caribbean territories and take a look; people are desperately poor in those places,too.
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 9:27 AM
From: pop
contd,
but they live in a culture with a more rooted value system. the populations, at a general level, believe that certain actions are unacceptable, so even if you are hungry you dont snatch chains from visitors. they are also forward thinking enough to realise that visitors are an asset to the country, and such silliness is inimical to tourism
Written by: NYC, 13 Nov 2007 2:02 PM
From: NYC
Mike I, thanks for your thoughts. It is great to look other cultures and see what we can improve on. How is a change made? Can you stimulate enough people to follow continuously and then create a BEHAVIOR? Its possible.
It starts by showing that no bad behavior is left unpunished.
That there are no priviledges for a few people no matter how much money they have and who they are related to. That we all have the right under the law to a better quality of life.
CONT...
Written by: NYC, 13 Nov 2007 2:05 PM
From: NYC
Its starts with you and I. How?
Simple. By being a better citizen of the world. :)
I personally am very proud of being of dominican parents. I uphold with pride the fact. My testimony is my life.
Its that simple. We are happy go lucky people. Admit it. We have no real electrical system yet if you see we are well press. We managed to be the caribbeans #1 importer of organic cacao beans. There is a dom. that invented the first mouse that does not give karpel tunnel.
cont..
Written by: NYC, 13 Nov 2007 2:11 PM
From: NYC
Not every dom. that works blows off their money on booz. If not you can see that the majority of the NY,NJ as well as DR supermarket/bodega and other bus. are owned by Dom.
Profls. there are lots of us too in many fields.
I believe that is up to us to try and change things. Unless corruption and nepotism are removed from being the day to day bus. Unless we start treating scum with moneyfor what they are. You and i are fighting a lost battle.
I am willing to do my part. R U?
From: Jamestown NC
I UNDERSRAND HOW YOU FELL AND PLEASE SINCERILLY RECIEVE MY STATEMENT. I LEFT MY COUNTRY SIXTEEN YEARS AGO.WHEN I RETURNED IT WAS LIKE A CULTURE SHOCK TO ME AND MY FAMILY.ONE OF THE MUST HATEFULL THINGS THAT I EXPERIANCE WAS THE FACT THAT EVERYONE OF MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS WERE MORE CONCENED ABOUT WHAT HAVE I BROUGTH THEN THAN ANYTHING ELSE.AT FIRST I WAS UPSET BUT AS I SAW THEY NEEDS AND THE CORRUPTION IN MY COUNTRY I DECICED TO TRAVEL MORE FREQUENT TO BRING HOPE AT LEAST THE WORD OF GOD AND TOLL
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 3:28 PM
From: pop
well put, NYC. this kind of aberrant behavior is part of a diseased mind. it is not uniquely dominican, so please posters, dont think i am focusing on the dr only.but since the incident happened here, lets examine what is wrong. one of the first commentaries taht foreigners express regarding the dominican ethos is the absolute, even childlike,lack of personal responsibility. lets take simple examples; in most modern societies, there are rules ,which are enforced, when it comes to vehicular
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 3:33 PM
From: pop
traffic. in the dr, people make their own rules; they drive on whichever side of the road strikes their fancy at the moment. i have seen guys driving counter to traffic on DIVIDED HIGHWAYS! they disobey all the traffic lights and signs, and even homk their horns at you from behind if you are imprudent enough to stop at the red light. in all of this anarchy, there is no set rules of responsibility and liability. i have many friends who have been rear-ended by reckless drivers, who argue over who
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 3:38 PM
From: pop
was to blame. in a more organised society, the blame is clear cut, and insurance companies accept their obligation to indemnify their policyholder. i myself had my car hit by a truck as i sat still with the engine off; the police were right there to witness the accident, but, to this day, never assigned culpability. it is this general state of anarchy and disorder which promotes gratuitous chain snatching and cell phone theft. and the condition develops unabated, because those whom you thought
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 3:44 PM
From: pop
contd,
should be setting a good example are sometimes the worst offenders; whenever the oncoming driver insists on blinding you with his bright lights at night, more often than not it is some dirtbag in a large jeepeta, who has no concept of living in society. he sees himself as being above conformity, so ,with these elements in our midst, how are the lowlier citizens going to be nurtured to act responsibly, in an effort to make their environment a safe and civilised place. somebody please tel
Written by: mike l, 13 Nov 2007 3:48 PM
From: pop
contd,
me what these unfortunates are going to think is acceptable behavior when every day, without fail, comes a new press release about some government official or high ranking military officer looting the peoples money. i guess he would like to do the same, but since he does not have access to the national coffers, he will do the next best thing; he will rob the first person that comes within arms length.
Written by: NYC, 13 Nov 2007 4:16 PM
From: NYC
I meant exporter. not importer of cocoa beans, these are bought by Belgium (who by the way makes the best chocolates in the world).
It is no accident that Santo Domingo Invita shows again and again Dominicans that have triumph.
Its lead by watching examples of those who have achieved it.
Like I said before, we are a work in process. :)
Written by: Jesse , 14 Nov 2007 12:14 AM
From: NYC
Mike no offence but I have to disagree with you on some things. I don’t think that my people are lazy. Yeah there are some just like in every society, but if you had a job that only gives you enough to survive for a week (not even) you are just not going to be motivated, and have a smile on your face every time you go to work. My mother lives in DR and she is a Meteorologist, witch in any other country it would be a great job, but I’m telling you that she barley makes $$ to sustain my family...
Written by: Jesse , 14 Nov 2007 12:15 AM
From: NYC
Contd,
I also have 2 cousins that are always looking for jobs, but guess what there ant any!! So what is a man to do with a family, no job, and an empty stomach? This man had no right to do what he did, but like you say we don’t know what his situation is, but I am + that there are more men stealing for food in DR than those in NYC who do it for crack (& I know that this could also be the reason y he did it).
Written by: Kate, 14 Nov 2007 12:28 PM
From: NH
Mike I, EVERYTHING YOU'VE WRITTEN IS TRUE. You have made very good observations and have expressed them better than I ever could. These are the same things that my family have talked about with respect to the Dominican culture. The Dominican government is corrupt. Education in D.R. is mediocre, it's no wonder people behave and think the way they do.I hate to say this but it needs to be said, most Dominicans have no respect for themselves or others. They have no shame and no dignity. contd,
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 12:28 PM
From: pop
hello Jesse, i take no offence to what you said; i agree with your premise, but take a different path getting there. i feel great sympathy for the common man here, because survival is precarious. even educated foreigners with multiple college degrees struggle to find worthwhile occupations. one can only imagine the despair among the people who find themselves at the bottom of the food chain. besides, the preparation for the workplace is laughable. last year, around this time, i watched in
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 12:34 PM
From: pop
astonishment as my canadian friend tried mightily to explain to his dominican girlfriend that the world was spherical, like a baseball, not round, like a plate. he gave her a short explanation about the solar system, why the sun rises in the east, etc. last week, she came home beaming, showing off her freshly minted high school diploma. i would like someone to explain to me how in Gods name such a person is going to function in the world of today. obscurantism has always been the policy of
Written by: Kate, 14 Nov 2007 12:35 PM
From: NH
contd,
Many Dominicans do not like to work. They prefer to beg or send their kids begging than to work. They prefer to socialize than to work.Even when they come to the U.S. a large percentage live off the government. Those who own bodegas use their bodegas to camouflage their drug dealing. May bodega and restaurant owners are drug dealers. Dominicans like everything to come fast and easy that's why there are so many Dominican drug dealers all around the world. Argentina, Spain, P.R.
contd,
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 12:39 PM
From: pop
contd,
non democratic societies, because educated, informed societies do not accept nonse from their governments. this policy of fostering an uninformed populace worked for the dr in the so-called good old days; nowadays, in order to survive, one has to compete with the entire world, which has been shrunk by mass international transportation and electronic methodologies. so i shudder when 15 of my friends are involved in an effervescent debate as to whether or not hispaniola is an island.
Written by: Kate, 14 Nov 2007 12:40 PM
From: NH
contd,
and U.S. Everytime there is a headline about someone being caught trafficking drugs, you can assure that one or all are Dominicans. I know that many women are tricked into travelling and end up in prostitution, but many Dominican women, as I've read, are doing it willingly. It's a shame that Respect, Integrity, and Dignity are disappearing completely from the Dominican culture.A country cannot grow if people don't work. Many say they don't pay enough, but it's better
contd,
Written by: Kate, 14 Nov 2007 12:42 PM
From: NH
contd,
at a low pay until you find something better and to be begging. Work dignifies and if people want a better Dominican Republic, then they have to behave more civilized.
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 12:45 PM
From: pop
it becomes even more scary when i encounter dominicans in new york whom i met in the dr, and they think that the name of the country is new york; i have to inform them that the country is named The United States Of America! it shows that the successive governments have cared not a whit about education in the past, and that the current government plans to elevate us from third world status by introducing subterranean locomotives.
the sad part is that the great majority of dominicans who manage
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 12:50 PM
From: pop
to get a visa to the usa are at such a disadvantage, because of poor preparation, that their lives are almost as brutal as they are here. they might be able to afford a few more material things, but they end up working in low paying ,dead-end jobs, being exploited by their own compatriots. they return on holidays flaunting the latest new york urban-chic haute couture, but the landlord just sent them an eviction notice the week before. it is really sad, my friends. the society has to be
Written by: mike l , 14 Nov 2007 12:55 PM
From: pop
completely revamped, from top to bottom. until the bottom feeders who are charged with the duty of bettering the population stop stealing the peoples treasure and realise they are elected to serve, 20 year old dominican school students will still believe that the earth is flat! also , reptiles on motorcycles will sustain their life habits by forcefully removing jewelry from unsuspecting victims. its a sad commentary on the state of affairs, but what can you do when no one cares.
Written by: vecina, 14 Nov 2007 4:38 PM
From: nj
I agree, this is a beautiful country lacking values morals and a good leader. There is no work ethic and pretty much they feel they are entitled to whatever they have access to. I have been this country once and never went back again my husband is Dominican and his family sucks us dry of money material things whatever they feel like asking for. Its too easy to sit back and expect family members in the US to outright support you. They have no problem extending out thier hand asking asking for $.
Written by: NYC, 14 Nov 2007 4:45 PM
From: NYC
My mothers family own supermarkets in the ny, nj, and dr.
they dont deal drugs, nor sold drug in the past, nor presently.
Not everyone that owns a business and is dominican sells drugs.
the problem is that you see a few and you judge them all.
cont.
Written by: NYC, 14 Nov 2007 4:47 PM
From: NYC
Another thing. Yes is true some of the people who come over do get caught in the system.
The reality is that the group of dominicans who move ahead are not willing to live in the bad areas.
Those who are educated tend to keep a low profile.
Written by: NYC, 14 Nov 2007 4:49 PM
From: NYC
So Mike I, how do you revamp this situation.
Complaining, blaming etc. will not resolve the issue.
Offer a solution.
:)
I am all eyes.
Written by: Darold, 14 Nov 2007 5:13 PM
From: New York City
I, on behalf on my country, thank you for your solidarity and contribution, it has been enough. But let's be real, you've not been rewarded for that. I cannot apologize for my people, because as far as I'm concern, situations like that happen everywhere (Canada, US, Latin America). I do,in fact, feel bad that you've gone through that experience. I've been thinking about going there but I'm, also, a little be concern that I get robbed, mugged, ect. Just know that you have people that supp
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:07 PM
From: pop
i appreciate with humility Kates complimentary assessment of my writing style. i continue to reject the static correlation between poverty and crime, for the simple reason that it always seems to assert that people who do not know where the next meal is coming from will resort to crime. well, the politicos do know where the next meal is coming from; their biggest decision is whether they want to have king crab flambee in miami, or oysters rockefeller in monte carlo. yet they are more criminally
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:12 PM
From: pop
inclined than the majority of the general populace. there are too many dynamics to be considered, not the least of which is that of societal norms. people are desperately poor in havana, but you can walk the streets without fearing every stranger you encounter. i can hear all the detractors saying that they are reluctant to steal in cuba because of the repercussions. exactly! the repercussions are draconian because the political directorate is trying to instil into the populace, by inhumane
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:18 PM
From: pop
contd,
measures ,if necessary, to respect the sanctity of other people and their property. those are the ingredients of which society is constructed; it should not be a dog eat dog agglomeration of competing interests, wherein nobody respects the next persons right to exist unmolested. people sitting with their friends at the beach should not have to suffer the anguish of some half wit pulling up to within two feet of their group, raising the liftgate of the suv, and fossilizing their eardrums
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:25 PM
From: pop
with their 6 billion watt boombox sound blaster ,played at life threatening volume. and my 11 year old niece does not have to witness some ill bred mutant urinating in full view of sra lisa, when he could have just as easily headed for the restroom. these are issues of self respect and pride, which translate to respect for others. people throw garbage out their car windows because they cannot make the connect between the road, as a collective asset, and the rest of society. they know they are
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:31 PM
From: pop
making a mess of something, but they just dont care; the persons whose sensibilities are offended are inconsequential to the perpetrator, who fails to understand the value and importance of others. he respects no-one, least of all himself; he values nothing , and lives his life in a self absorbed void. this malady in his mind can easily tip him over to the criminal side of the ledger, because, in his depravity, he sees no ill in his actions.
the fact that he violates the very existence of
Written by: mike l, 14 Nov 2007 9:37 PM
From: pop
others is of little significance to him, because he does not see himself as a part of a grander design. a man such as this will rip the earrings from a woman, taking her earlobe with it, and laugh hysterically at his accomplishment, then take the proceeds of the sale or pawn to buy a pair of the most expensive jordan sneakers. the politicos, on the other hand, steal enough to buy the sneaker factory.
Written by: joe, 14 Nov 2007 10:17 PM
From: Cabarete
We are an uncivilized country with no rules that are enforced unless someone is looking for a payoff by a gringo and then we are very strict!
We are animals in every sense of the word and this is because even our President steals and so on down to the lowliest person does the same!
Next time be more careful and don't wear jewelery and you will save yourself some angst! If you want to wear BABBLES DON'T COMPLAIN!
Expect nothing from Dominicans because they have no morals whatsoever!
From: Sto. Dgo.
You can tell this was written by a girl.
Had it been a guy, he would have written " Can you believe some jerk stole my gold chain today?"
As for getting ripped off, the "old biddies" on the guagua hit the nail on the head. You don't wear gold when your doing public transportation...
I think our girl is really angry at herself for being so "negligent"
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:25 AM
From: pop
to NYC; i hope you are not directing your commentary to me when you advise us that your family members do not engage in the purveyance of contraband drugs. (i mention this because you refer to me by name in your post). i have never asserted that all dominicans are selling drugs in the usa, and, furthermore, i have no recollection that anyone else has made that claim in these pages. secondly, i am neither complaining nor blaming; i am not very well practised in the art of polemics; i rather
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:32 AM
From: pop
contd,
to direct my intellectual assets, however limited they might be,to inquiry and analysis. commenting on the state of affairs is not complaining nor blaming. i, unfortunately, cannot offer a solution for the lack of civility that we witness on a daily basis. maybe the society is just to accepting of antisocial behavior. i read, with dismay, the insights of the poster who scolded the victim for wearing her chain on public transportation; she should have known better, he observes.i agree wit
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:37 AM
From: pop
contd,
him in one respect; you just dont do that here, and in many other places, for that matter. my contention is that you should be able to wear your chain anywhere; it is yours, whether you bought it or it was gifted to you. you should not have to take it off every time you leave the relative security of your bedroom. i made reference to the situation in cuba, because they do not accept that kind of social malady there; if you get caught purloining other peoples property, the consequences
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:42 AM
From: pop
will be dire enough to deter the next guy who has similar intentions in his mind. there are societies in which people do not tolerate barbarism; in singapore, you go to jail for possession of chewing gum, because degenerates there would use discarded pieces to cause the malfunctioning of train doors. there was no equivocation on the part of government, they simply banned its use and sale. as i said before, i watch grown men unzipping their pants and relieving their bladders in full view of
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:47 AM
From: pop
of matronly ladies accompanied by adolescent girls; while this transpires, their posse of enablers laughs hysterically at the show. in singapore, again, you go to jail for using a public toilet and not flushing it. they dont want one individual to imperil the health of thousands. that is the thinking of a society wherein people act communally; i am simply saying that people have not learnt respect for themselves nor others. people who engage in vociferous conversations in an internet cafe
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:52 AM
From: pop
disturbing all others without concern, have not evolved socially, because they have not been corrected along the line. and stop saying that this kind of thing happens everywhere; in singapore you get publicly whipped if you are caught littering. these may be draconian remedies, but they point to the fact that there are people in the world who believe that higher standards of behavior should be the norm. and no, i am not moving to singapore because i think its so great, so please dont implore
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 9:53 AM
From: pop
me to. i happen to like it here. besides, i dont know if they have good cerdo asado there.
Written by: JD, 15 Nov 2007 10:43 AM
From: Washington DC
First, I want to apologize for your loss. I feel your frustration & pray that time will heal you but you will be smarter.
Poverty is not an excuse for crime. There are many poor that starts businesses (due to no jobs) . Thus it was his choice to steal & convert into cold Presidentes etc.
The RD Gov is habitually negligent. Police can easily set up stings for this "daily" act.
FACT: Please remember, all RD Gov corruption & illegal gains via crime etc are easily lost in ONE storm
From: Santo Domingo
Even if they wanted, JD, the National Police can't do nothing to stop crime on its tracks, because it, like the rest of the armed forces in the DR and Latin America, was created and trained for the sole purpose of oppresing the common, defenseless citizen, not to fight crime or adressing foreign menaces effectively. They're opperating with the same mindset and methods of the Cold War era, in which every given citizen could be a "communist" and had to be dealt with accordingly.
Written by: mike l, 15 Nov 2007 3:10 PM
From: pop
BRILLIANT, ENRIQUILLO! one of the wisest observations i have seen in this forum!
Written by: NYC, 15 Nov 2007 3:18 PM
From: NYC
Mike I, please read KAREN FROM NH. She stated the fact not you.
I addressed you because you seem to have a valid argument, but not a solution.
You admitted you have no solution.
My point is, we can point the faults and where we went wrong.
I guess you believe another Trujillo should be in power to raise the standards of living. Even though that may be a solution to some its not a solution to all.
Written by: NYC, 15 Nov 2007 3:27 PM
From: NYC
Mike I,
Its not a matter of winning an argument or name calling. It demeans the person stating these things due to feelings of inadequacy.
An easy answer will be to place blame. A solution would be to make a plan and follow thru to make the change happen. If it happens with business everyday. It can also happen with people.
That is why I said I am willing to do my part. R U? :)
From: Santo Domingo
That's right, mr. Mike I. Also, it doesn't help things the fact that old "generals" of the Banda Colorá still have a say on the affairs of the Army and the Police. As I'm sure you're aware of, the Banda Colorá was one of the Paramilitary groups within the armed forces that made its living terrorizing the people in the twelve years of Balaguer (1966-1978), they specialized themselves in targeting the youth (cont...)
From: Santo Domingo
(cont...) because they knew, as their oligarchic overseers did, that the youth is always the sector that will be prone to challenge the traditional "values" of any given society.
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 9:19 AM
From: pop
NYC, tthank you for continuing you dialogue; i respect your observations, and at no point do i intend to demean your people. i never resort to name calling, because it debases the discourse. but i will not refrain from stating the issues. as a transplant from another society, i have witnessed the unanimity with which other people criticise the social state of affairs here. people new to this country are bewildered by things they see here, because they never see them elsewhere, and that is
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 9:24 AM
From: pop
contd,
an incontrovertible fact. i have visited other countries, and,having lived in new york city for 27 years, i have interacted with people from the four corners of the globe. i choose to live here because there is a mystical magic about this place which is inexplicable. it is the classic love-hate relationship.those of us who relocate here are willing to accept the fact that more often than not there are power outages, the tv has no channels, one cannot get water, the roads are a disaster,
Written by: mike l , 16 Nov 2007 9:29 AM
From: pop
and so on. we are prepared to live with that. what is unsettling is the lack of social conformity and respect at all levels; from the top to the bottom. there is no such thing as a good example. things that people take for granted here are stimuli for horror elsewhere. in most civilised societies, grown men do not grab a handful of their crotch when they approach a group of females; it is par for the course here. i concede that some urban ghetto reprobates in the usa who see it as a gesture of
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 9:36 AM
From: pop
contd,
manliness, if not manhood, but these types are generally accepted as unevolved, uncivilised troglodytes. and no, i dont think trujillo is the answer, simply because order exists in the more totalitarian state of cuba. because fidel castro is a principled ,human, being. he instilled work ethic, respect for others, order and discipline. most of all, he instilled honesty and decency. i cannot say that about a man who, in a poor and then relatively backward third world country, was one of
Written by: mike l , 16 Nov 2007 9:42 AM
From: pop
honest days work, and just generally respecting ones self and others
Written by: mike l , 16 Nov 2007 9:42 AM
From: pop
the 5 richest in the world. i dont want to see a return to the loathsome excesses of one of the foulest human beings to disgrace the race of humanity. maybe, just maybe, when more dominicans migrate to the usa, and see a different way, one which disallows gratuitous indiscipline, in which others rebuff their approach to living,,then these dominicans can return home and spread the wealth of orderly life. they can teach their compatriots the value of showing up to work on time, putting in an
Written by: NYC, 16 Nov 2007 1:09 PM
From: NYC
Thank you for your response. I would love a solution. You continue to state what is wrong. I understand your disgust for the behavior of people down there. There must be a solution to this.
I am sorry I dont agree with how you see that a poor country forced to wear 1 bra a year but has according to you higher morals is a sample to follow? A benchmark? :(
cont
Written by: NYC, 16 Nov 2007 1:16 PM
From: NYC
Mike I. Its your suggestion that Dominicans are to travel abroad to expose themselves to another society and bring those influences to DR?? Great! How?
Maybe I missed your solution in your long answer? :)
Thanks.
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 3:26 PM
From: pop
NYC, i thought i had said all i care to day on this subject, but your comment on 1 bra a year really unsettles me. i cannot make the correlation between one bra, or one of anything for that matter, and morality. i am not sure i understand what you mean; i hope you are not saying that you could not take your lead from a country in which , because of economic strictures, forces people to survive on less material possessions.if money made people, the united states would have the most moral
Written by: mike l , 16 Nov 2007 3:32 PM
From: pop
contd,
people going today, but we know that that is not the reality.let me just say one last thing on this subject unless someone else says something to stir me up; in the last hour, i was at a traffic light and saw a teenage girl being chased by a man who appeared slightly older than she was. he caught up to her, threw on forcefully to the ground, and stood over her menacingly; she stood up, and he proceeded to deliver three left hooks, Joe Frazier style, to her jaw.the third blow felled her,
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 3:37 PM
From: pop
contd,
whereupon he flounced away, hissing his teeth and mumbling incoherently. she stood there sobbing and bleeding; all the while, grown men stood by within arms length, impassively. all i am saying is that one day in the future, this guy might receive a visa to the usa and try that on a manhattan street. the results will be different, i assure you. he will be tackled to the ground, administered a severe beating, and turned over to the authorities. it is called acceptance; dominicans in new
Written by: mike l, 16 Nov 2007 3:40 PM
From: pop
york have probably seen how other societies react to such atrocities, and can come back with a new approach, teaching their compatriots on the island that such behavior is not tolerable, and this can be done by a dominican woman who can only afford one bra per year!
Written by: NYC, 16 Nov 2007 5:26 PM
From: NYC
Mike I, being rich or being poor does not constitute morality, integrity or honesty. Its an ingrained education that comes from your HOME. Schools teach you to learn to do a job/skill or resolve problem(i am not saying here anything new). :(
Again, I dont gain anything by attacking anyone. What I am saying is not a good idea to followed a failed group of people who have comform major gov't ruling. Its not wise.
cont.
Written by: NYC, 16 Nov 2007 5:32 PM
From: NYC
Oppressed people in dire situations are willing to adapt to anything to survive with a gun pointed at their heads. Yet, you still cannot say that there is no prostitution in Cuba.
You want to change corruption, you wipe it out and have zero tolerance for it. You want to instill values, you start by showing it in your everyday life and spreading it like a virus.
That is what I am talking about.
cont.
Written by: NYC, 16 Nov 2007 5:34 PM
From: NYC
Mike I, good luck! and thanks for your chat
:)
From: Santo Domingo
Mike I's point, mr. NYC, is that, in the cuban system, individuals are taught to reject consumism and to be mindful of their actions, because these can not only affect him/herself, but also the society as a whole, unlike what we are taught on our "laissez-faire" capitalist system: that is, the theory first stated by Adam Smith which says that, in pursuing our egotistical desires,we can benefit the society as a whole. Reality has proven the wrongness of this principle time and again.
Written by: Jesse, 17 Nov 2007 5:56 PM
From: NYC
yes people it happens in the U.S. too. It’s a fact that when people don’t have the means to survive they will commit crimes like this one. I’m from DR and I know how it feels to be without, like we say, sin un chele, hungry, without a job, and a family to feed. If anyone of you have ever been in those circumstances you wouldn’t think like you do.
Written by: Jesse, 17 Nov 2007 5:56 PM
From: NYC
OMG I’m sorry but it pisses me off that everyone is like “yeah DR is such an uncivilized country” & how we are so “barbaric.” Just in case none notice DR is a 3rd world country, & most 3rd world country are like this. I’m sorry Alexandra but you should expect that these things are going to happen to you if you live in any 3rd world country. As for the rest of you, you people act like what happened to Alexandra only happens in DR. The truth is that even in NYC there are people that act like this,
Written by: tuan, 18 Nov 2007 8:53 AM
From: pop
NYC: if DR is "a work in progress" ... WTH! for 500 years????
OP: wearing gold, gold fill or even gold painted neckaces is nuts for someone who says they know the country as you should. You're lucky you didn't get your throat cut by a razor like my friend in Caracas did. No jewelry on the street, kiddo!
Written by: NYC, 19 Nov 2007 11:55 AM
From: NYC
Enriquillo1982, I am a woman. Second, Tell that to China that due to their lack of consumption placed their entire economy in a recession and were told by their own gov't purchase products.
Written by: NYC, 19 Nov 2007 12:01 PM
From: NYC
Mr. Tuan,
It is a work in progress. I am a believer that change comes in a group effort. Of course pessimists will always try to overshadow the efforts of others. There are many great things happening in DR on a day to day basis. This robbery just shows again and again that our society needs a lot of help, I am willing to do my part. R U? :)
From: new york
Not only in d.r. This happens its happens everywhere ..and not only dominicans sell drugs everyone does all types ..sometimes people think like a person on drugs ..how is it that ur gonna say we don't like too work ,we sell drugs ,we live off da government .please r u talkin about urself ..not everyone is da same ..my parents r dominican they worked very hard 2 get wat have now ..stop being so ignorent thinkin everyone is da same ..this whole world is full of corruptions !! Sorry 4 wat happen
From: Santo Domingo
To which China are you refering to, mrs. NYC? The one of the 1960's, or the one which is well on its way to becoming the World's first economic power, which is the current one, and which may well attain the title if the economical conditions worldwide remains the same a decade from now?
Written by: Charity, 19 Nov 2007 11:13 PM
From: DR
I'm new-been living here a few months. I'm still sizing up the culture. Trying to judge in the people I see, meet and come in contact with what is cultural upbringing and what is their individual, moral compass. I was warned, briefed, and have taken many precautions before I came. So from my inexperienced experience I know this: there is much dispicable about this place. But, most of my personal experiences with the Dominicans I interact with (a broad range from the streets, work, church,
Written by: Charity, 19 Nov 2007 11:22 PM
From: DR
school, business is that the Dominicans by & large are kind, well-meaning, good people. When Dominicans I work closely w/ do things that frustrate me over and over, I give them the benefit of the doubt because I balance it w/ the good that I know of them. So, I live w/ the frustrations of a developing world's ineptness both by its own fault & no fault of its own. I hear what is reality, but I balance that w/ my own reality. I guess Alexandra's reality changed to one she wasn't ready to reali
Written by: jeffrey, 20 Nov 2007 10:33 AM
From: Nueba Yol
What a jackass! i would nt wear gold on the subway in New York or London as well.
Written by: mike l, 20 Nov 2007 5:29 PM
From: pop
to Charity; i promised to clam up in this thread, but your post got me started, in a positive sort of way. the dr has the most corrupt and obstructionist government one could imagine; on the other hand, individual dominicans are some of the finest human beings on earth. i hope to God you dont get seriously ill here, but if you do, you will receive care and attention from people you dont even know. i got ill one night, called a cab, and off to the hospital i went. the cab driver , whom i never
Written by: mike l, 20 Nov 2007 5:32 PM
From: pop
knew, waited as they examined me. the doctor said i should stay overnight, and the cab driver left. the next day, i hear a knock at the door; its the cab driver, stopping in to check on my condition. so if you can ignore the other crap, you will probably love this place as much as i do; i will concede that it is burdensome at times,though!
From: Canada
I lived in the DR for 7 years. First mistake she made was wearing gold on a guagua. After time, you learn how to get along, but it wears you down, certainly from looking at whatever positives can be found in the culture. The problem is lack of education. Period. And lack of moral upbringing. And role models are rich Dominicans who are corrupt. It will take generations to repair.
From: Florida
“Lack of moral upbringing” If you go the Dominican Republic to sit in a colmado, drink,and sleep with prostitutes, you’re not going to meet well mannered people.
Written by: David, 4 Dec 2007 7:22 PM
From: New York
While I don't think the women on the bus should have rubbed it in, it is true...you DO NOT wear gold jewelry on a public bus AND sit by an open window. That presents too much temptation. I wore a heavy silver chain to a bar once and two guys came in off the street thinking about robbing me. Fortunatly for me, I'm 6ft, 235 lbs and the two of them figured it would be more trouble then it was worth. With all the negative experiances, I would think you would be a little more careful.
Written by: DaniDr, 10 Dec 2007 10:14 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
I'm sorry to hear about that Alexandra. It's really diffiult to find someone who hasn't been robbed. I'm one of them and I can tell you for sure I'm counting days till it happens. It's got to a point where people just assume it's "NORMAL??" to get mugged or assaulted.
From: Canada, Santo Domingo
I want to thank everyone for their messages of concern; I've definitely learned my lesson and no longer wear anything worth stealing when commuting on public transit.
Still, hardly a day goes by when I don't meet or talk to someone who has experienced something similar - male and female - and it saddens me that a person can't wear something beautiful and sentimental or even feel safe carrying valuables with them concealed in a purse or wallet. I'm coming at this issue from a Canadian perspective, and muggings and break-ins happen there too, but I don't believe petty crime is ever justifiable, no matter what country it happens in.
To all of our readers who have experienced similar violation - I'm so sorry. I still love the D.R. though!
Written by: cpone, 10 Dec 2007 3:28 PM
From: United States
I would like to say sorry for the you idiot and the hundreds if not thousands that plague or beloved Island.
While there has been many complaints in this forum I see very little if not any solutions.
Should be interesting to see peoples thoughts on what solutions to the ever growing problem of theft and violence in our beloved nation would be.
From: United States
Well, Cpone, heres your opportunity to start the ball rolling. instead of lamenting the paucity of suggestions for rectifying the malady, set us all an example by giving us a few solutions of your own. maybe you will inspire the rest of us into taking our brains for a walk!
Written by: cpone, 11 Dec 2007 9:49 AM
From: United States
You following me man?
Here is a suggestion, create a task force that deals with these young criminals and doesn't just throw them in jail but puts them in a half way house of some sort that teaches these kids that are obviously neglected by their parents either because of lack of time or care.
Impose a tourist tax of say 1% for all hotel rooms that goes into funding of education across the country in areas that are most at risk of having kids fall through the cracks.
Well I have PLENTY more the problem is that the corruption that is at the heart of our govt will never see that money trickle down to those who really need it. Its a problem that is not just Dominican but something that has been effecting the vast areas of Latin America for decades!
From: United States
no Cpone, you are following me . i was posting on this thread as Mike l long before you showed up! despite our opposing viewpoints on certain issues, i still wanted to prod you into a response, and suggestions. i think this is why we are here( on the web). i know you would not resist the chance, so say your piece
From: United States
and jeezus,Cpone, you are turning into a real old softie liberal-marxist-socialist-tree hugging-tax raising-war hating- commie pinko- al gore respecting- che guevara adoring democrat! those suggestions actually sounded compassionate! i would have thought a firebrand conservative would advocate throwing them all in jail, along with their momma! shows what i know. but we finally agree on one thing; it is not a lack of resoyrces that causes the problems here; it is misallocation. the recommended allocation for education in this region is between 4-4.8 %of GDP; the DR allocates 1.2%. surely you dont think that a high school graduate in the DR is the intellectual equivalent of their american counterpart, let alone one from the eastern caribbean ( grenada, st vincent, barbados,etc) .it is pathetic. now the authorities can only treat the symptoms, not the disease!
Written by: cpone, 11 Dec 2007 2:11 PM
From: United States
Hence why I hold a different perspective and a different outlook on what my solution would be for a person from DR or a Latin American Country and a person here in the US.
Here in the US I say lock them up and throw away the key with the lot of them. There are little excuses I care to hear about in the US as to why a youth cannot make it.
in DR I know the inefficiencies of govt and the corruption that has plagued the nation for decades. So my stance is different. You first need to create the opportunities and the base to use tough love, otherwise the outcome is what we have now. Rampant violence from uneducated youth that feel that hope is lost.
From: United States
well, Cpone, you suggested a 1% tax on tourism, dedicated to funding education for at risk youth. i want you to take a look at an article. my laptop keyboard is shot, so i virtually have to spell out the steps 1) go to google 2) look for CLIENTELISM IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 3) look for the entry titled CONCEPT PAPER; DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. the site begins with www1.worldbank.....it explains why the dr governments will never spend any worthwhile allocations on education. the gravamen of the report is that all government spending is a quid pro quo, with a target voter market. the teachers unions have no allegiance to any political party; it is in their charter. the government rathers to spend money on local public works, with a target audience, such as the metro, bridges and highways, to give the local caudillos what they want for their district. the caudillos then deliver the vote in return. it is tough to target teachers, therefore education goes to hell! its great reading.
Written by: cpone, 12 Dec 2007 11:21 AM
From: United States
Thanks I will.
And get a new lap top.
:)
From: United States
i wish i could, Cpone, but i can be enumerated among the 2.5 billion to which i alluded in another post; you know; the ones living on a dollar per day! really!
Written by: Batys, 15 Dec 2007 2:50 AM
From: Dominican Republic
WHAT IS THAT...?...POR DIOSSSS!!!.
Written by: maria, 17 Dec 2007 2:41 PM
From: United Kingdom, england
i have been to dom rep 20 times at least and never had a problem living in the city u until the last time in sept this year sitting on street with 13 people drinkin a beer 3 men on moto concho stopped got guns out and pointed them at myself and dom woman who was my friend grabbed my chain and tried ti rip it off i put my hand up and said NO HOW STUPID WAS I ONLY DEFENSE I HAVE WAS FRIGHT
I AM TO BLAME AS I FORGOT I HAD IT ON HAVING JUST GOT THERE AND OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD CLOCKED IT GOING PASS NOT LOCALS! I AM GLAD MY DOM HUSBAND WAS NOT THERE THE GUN WOULD HAVE BEEN USED BY HIM OR THE GUY ON BIKE LUCKILY THE BOY RAN OFF AND JUMPED ON BIKE WITH OTHER TWO BOYS I THANK GOD LOOKED AFTER ME I STILL LOVE THE COUNTRY BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE SO GREEDY AND TAKE WHAT THEY WANT ITS LIFE I GUESS MARIA
From: United States
Best DR's paint !!!!!!!!!!
Written by: Lautaro, 12 Feb 2008 7:16 PM
From: Brazil
This could happen too on any given city of the US, mr. know-it-all perception. Why don't you visit any impoverished neighborhood on New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Minneapolis, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Oakland, and Los Angeles, and see how well you'd fare over there. At least we dominicans have the decency not to practice environmental racism as you do with your ghettos and suburbias.
Whao, my hat is off to you, my mother almost crucified me for taking mass transportation twice in the capital. After reading your story, I see her point NOW.
I am very sorry that you had to endure such horrible experiences in the DR.
I guess you have sort of experience what being a minority feels like.
I am in agreement with you as to their lack of understanding for being good neighbors/hosts.
continue...
Its not an experience I would like to have.
You se
I will try to explain: The rules are if you have money, you are exempt from being punished for whatever you do.
If you have no money and no name then you are just like everyone else. The saying is "without a godfather you cannot get baptized." The things that happened to you had they happened to a godchild your necklace would have been found in a matter of hours and the person would have been PUNISHED with jail and/or a major beating.
continue
We are a nation of work in process.
:)
quantities of presidente. these types have no sense of personal responsibility. they perceive themselves to be everybody elses responsibility; they impregnate women and hope for gringo to come and support their offspring.they get a job and show up whenever they feel so inclined. and if they do earn a few pesos, they blow it all in fifteen minutes, with not a care for tomorrow. these types are more inimical to society than the POOR. these are criminal actors, useless as citizens.
they actally think it is clever to rip stuff off, and brag about their acumen in theft and larceny. but guess what; they have very good examples set by the political establisnment in how to get ahead on the minimum of effort. ther are poor people in every society; however, you can go to countries in the world wherein such debasements do not occur. i suggest you go to Barbados or other eastern caribbean territories and take a look; people are desperately poor in those places,too.
but they live in a culture with a more rooted value system. the populations, at a general level, believe that certain actions are unacceptable, so even if you are hungry you dont snatch chains from visitors. they are also forward thinking enough to realise that visitors are an asset to the country, and such silliness is inimical to tourism
It starts by showing that no bad behavior is left unpunished.
That there are no priviledges for a few people no matter how much money they have and who they are related to. That we all have the right under the law to a better quality of life.
CONT...
Simple. By being a better citizen of the world. :)
I personally am very proud of being of dominican parents. I uphold with pride the fact. My testimony is my life.
Its that simple. We are happy go lucky people. Admit it. We have no real electrical system yet if you see we are well press. We managed to be the caribbeans #1 importer of organic cacao beans. There is a dom. that invented the first mouse that does not give karpel tunnel.
cont..
Profls. there are lots of us too in many fields.
I believe that is up to us to try and change things. Unless corruption and nepotism are removed from being the day to day bus. Unless we start treating scum with moneyfor what they are. You and i are fighting a lost battle.
I am willing to do my part. R U?
should be setting a good example are sometimes the worst offenders; whenever the oncoming driver insists on blinding you with his bright lights at night, more often than not it is some dirtbag in a large jeepeta, who has no concept of living in society. he sees himself as being above conformity, so ,with these elements in our midst, how are the lowlier citizens going to be nurtured to act responsibly, in an effort to make their environment a safe and civilised place. somebody please tel
me what these unfortunates are going to think is acceptable behavior when every day, without fail, comes a new press release about some government official or high ranking military officer looting the peoples money. i guess he would like to do the same, but since he does not have access to the national coffers, he will do the next best thing; he will rob the first person that comes within arms length.
It is no accident that Santo Domingo Invita shows again and again Dominicans that have triumph.
Its lead by watching examples of those who have achieved it.
Like I said before, we are a work in process. :)
I also have 2 cousins that are always looking for jobs, but guess what there ant any!! So what is a man to do with a family, no job, and an empty stomach? This man had no right to do what he did, but like you say we don’t know what his situation is, but I am + that there are more men stealing for food in DR than those in NYC who do it for crack (& I know that this could also be the reason y he did it).
Many Dominicans do not like to work. They prefer to beg or send their kids begging than to work. They prefer to socialize than to work.Even when they come to the U.S. a large percentage live off the government. Those who own bodegas use their bodegas to camouflage their drug dealing. May bodega and restaurant owners are drug dealers. Dominicans like everything to come fast and easy that's why there are so many Dominican drug dealers all around the world. Argentina, Spain, P.R.
contd,
non democratic societies, because educated, informed societies do not accept nonse from their governments. this policy of fostering an uninformed populace worked for the dr in the so-called good old days; nowadays, in order to survive, one has to compete with the entire world, which has been shrunk by mass international transportation and electronic methodologies. so i shudder when 15 of my friends are involved in an effervescent debate as to whether or not hispaniola is an island.
and U.S. Everytime there is a headline about someone being caught trafficking drugs, you can assure that one or all are Dominicans. I know that many women are tricked into travelling and end up in prostitution, but many Dominican women, as I've read, are doing it willingly. It's a shame that Respect, Integrity, and Dignity are disappearing completely from the Dominican culture.A country cannot grow if people don't work. Many say they don't pay enough, but it's better
contd,
at a low pay until you find something better and to be begging. Work dignifies and if people want a better Dominican Republic, then they have to behave more civilized.
the sad part is that the great majority of dominicans who manage
they dont deal drugs, nor sold drug in the past, nor presently.
Not everyone that owns a business and is dominican sells drugs.
the problem is that you see a few and you judge them all.
cont.
The reality is that the group of dominicans who move ahead are not willing to live in the bad areas.
Those who are educated tend to keep a low profile.
Complaining, blaming etc. will not resolve the issue.
Offer a solution.
:)
I am all eyes.
measures ,if necessary, to respect the sanctity of other people and their property. those are the ingredients of which society is constructed; it should not be a dog eat dog agglomeration of competing interests, wherein nobody respects the next persons right to exist unmolested. people sitting with their friends at the beach should not have to suffer the anguish of some half wit pulling up to within two feet of their group, raising the liftgate of the suv, and fossilizing their eardrums
the fact that he violates the very existence of
We are animals in every sense of the word and this is because even our President steals and so on down to the lowliest person does the same!
Next time be more careful and don't wear jewelery and you will save yourself some angst! If you want to wear BABBLES DON'T COMPLAIN!
Expect nothing from Dominicans because they have no morals whatsoever!
Had it been a guy, he would have written " Can you believe some jerk stole my gold chain today?"
As for getting ripped off, the "old biddies" on the guagua hit the nail on the head. You don't wear gold when your doing public transportation...
I think our girl is really angry at herself for being so "negligent"
to direct my intellectual assets, however limited they might be,to inquiry and analysis. commenting on the state of affairs is not complaining nor blaming. i, unfortunately, cannot offer a solution for the lack of civility that we witness on a daily basis. maybe the society is just to accepting of antisocial behavior. i read, with dismay, the insights of the poster who scolded the victim for wearing her chain on public transportation; she should have known better, he observes.i agree wit
him in one respect; you just dont do that here, and in many other places, for that matter. my contention is that you should be able to wear your chain anywhere; it is yours, whether you bought it or it was gifted to you. you should not have to take it off every time you leave the relative security of your bedroom. i made reference to the situation in cuba, because they do not accept that kind of social malady there; if you get caught purloining other peoples property, the consequences
Poverty is not an excuse for crime. There are many poor that starts businesses (due to no jobs) . Thus it was his choice to steal & convert into cold Presidentes etc.
The RD Gov is habitually negligent. Police can easily set up stings for this "daily" act.
FACT: Please remember, all RD Gov corruption & illegal gains via crime etc are easily lost in ONE storm
I addressed you because you seem to have a valid argument, but not a solution.
You admitted you have no solution.
My point is, we can point the faults and where we went wrong.
I guess you believe another Trujillo should be in power to raise the standards of living. Even though that may be a solution to some its not a solution to all.
Its not a matter of winning an argument or name calling. It demeans the person stating these things due to feelings of inadequacy.
An easy answer will be to place blame. A solution would be to make a plan and follow thru to make the change happen. If it happens with business everyday. It can also happen with people.
That is why I said I am willing to do my part. R U? :)
an incontrovertible fact. i have visited other countries, and,having lived in new york city for 27 years, i have interacted with people from the four corners of the globe. i choose to live here because there is a mystical magic about this place which is inexplicable. it is the classic love-hate relationship.those of us who relocate here are willing to accept the fact that more often than not there are power outages, the tv has no channels, one cannot get water, the roads are a disaster,
manliness, if not manhood, but these types are generally accepted as unevolved, uncivilised troglodytes. and no, i dont think trujillo is the answer, simply because order exists in the more totalitarian state of cuba. because fidel castro is a principled ,human, being. he instilled work ethic, respect for others, order and discipline. most of all, he instilled honesty and decency. i cannot say that about a man who, in a poor and then relatively backward third world country, was one of
I am sorry I dont agree with how you see that a poor country forced to wear 1 bra a year but has according to you higher morals is a sample to follow? A benchmark? :(
cont
Maybe I missed your solution in your long answer? :)
Thanks.
people going today, but we know that that is not the reality.let me just say one last thing on this subject unless someone else says something to stir me up; in the last hour, i was at a traffic light and saw a teenage girl being chased by a man who appeared slightly older than she was. he caught up to her, threw on forcefully to the ground, and stood over her menacingly; she stood up, and he proceeded to deliver three left hooks, Joe Frazier style, to her jaw.the third blow felled her,
whereupon he flounced away, hissing his teeth and mumbling incoherently. she stood there sobbing and bleeding; all the while, grown men stood by within arms length, impassively. all i am saying is that one day in the future, this guy might receive a visa to the usa and try that on a manhattan street. the results will be different, i assure you. he will be tackled to the ground, administered a severe beating, and turned over to the authorities. it is called acceptance; dominicans in new
Again, I dont gain anything by attacking anyone. What I am saying is not a good idea to followed a failed group of people who have comform major gov't ruling. Its not wise.
cont.
You want to change corruption, you wipe it out and have zero tolerance for it. You want to instill values, you start by showing it in your everyday life and spreading it like a virus.
That is what I am talking about.
cont.
:)
OP: wearing gold, gold fill or even gold painted neckaces is nuts for someone who says they know the country as you should. You're lucky you didn't get your throat cut by a razor like my friend in Caracas did. No jewelry on the street, kiddo!
It is a work in progress. I am a believer that change comes in a group effort. Of course pessimists will always try to overshadow the efforts of others. There are many great things happening in DR on a day to day basis. This robbery just shows again and again that our society needs a lot of help, I am willing to do my part. R U? :)
Still, hardly a day goes by when I don't meet or talk to someone who has experienced something similar - male and female - and it saddens me that a person can't wear something beautiful and sentimental or even feel safe carrying valuables with them concealed in a purse or wallet. I'm coming at this issue from a Canadian perspective, and muggings and break-ins happen there too, but I don't believe petty crime is ever justifiable, no matter what country it happens in.
To all of our readers who have experienced similar violation - I'm so sorry. I still love the D.R. though!
While there has been many complaints in this forum I see very little if not any solutions.
Should be interesting to see peoples thoughts on what solutions to the ever growing problem of theft and violence in our beloved nation would be.
Here is a suggestion, create a task force that deals with these young criminals and doesn't just throw them in jail but puts them in a half way house of some sort that teaches these kids that are obviously neglected by their parents either because of lack of time or care.
Impose a tourist tax of say 1% for all hotel rooms that goes into funding of education across the country in areas that are most at risk of having kids fall through the cracks.
Well I have PLENTY more the problem is that the corruption that is at the heart of our govt will never see that money trickle down to those who really need it. Its a problem that is not just Dominican but something that has been effecting the vast areas of Latin America for decades!
Here in the US I say lock them up and throw away the key with the lot of them. There are little excuses I care to hear about in the US as to why a youth cannot make it.
in DR I know the inefficiencies of govt and the corruption that has plagued the nation for decades. So my stance is different. You first need to create the opportunities and the base to use tough love, otherwise the outcome is what we have now. Rampant violence from uneducated youth that feel that hope is lost.
And get a new lap top.
:)
I AM TO BLAME AS I FORGOT I HAD IT ON HAVING JUST GOT THERE AND OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD CLOCKED IT GOING PASS NOT LOCALS! I AM GLAD MY DOM HUSBAND WAS NOT THERE THE GUN WOULD HAVE BEEN USED BY HIM OR THE GUY ON BIKE LUCKILY THE BOY RAN OFF AND JUMPED ON BIKE WITH OTHER TWO BOYS I THANK GOD LOOKED AFTER ME I STILL LOVE THE COUNTRY BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE SO GREEDY AND TAKE WHAT THEY WANT ITS LIFE I GUESS MARIA